Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back as we
continue through our Proverbs 31
series, looking at the woman ofvalor and how God delights in
women.
With me today is my good friend, elise Kilco.
She is a foreign worker,volunteer and very busy mom of
two little ones.
Elise, tell me, are you asexhausted as I am?
Absolutely?
(00:23):
Are you as exhausted as I am?
Absolutely?
I feel like life right now iseither like exploding or
complete collapse.
Exhaustion there's like nomiddle ground.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
No, no middle ground.
My kids have been sick.
We've had travel.
We had a trip in the last month.
My kids have been sick.
They've missed childcare.
I've been sick.
Everybody's had a trip in thelast month.
My kids have been sick.
They've missed childcare.
I've been sick.
Everybody's had a cold andfevers.
And yeah, we're tired.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
So as we talk about Proverbs 31, have you ever seen people
connect the adage a woman's workis never done with Proverbs 31?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Because today we're
going to talk about Proverbs 31
and rest and her relationship towork.
I don't know that I've everseen that specific adage
connected with Proverbs 31, butdefinitely that thought,
definitely the thought that youknow the woman's life is a cycle
and she's never done for theday.
It's just a you know a rotationof tasks that have to be done
(01:34):
and that she should, you know,be up early, stay up late to get
everything done.
Everything rests on her.
You know, if, if mama's happy,everybody's happy, if mama's not
happy, nobody's happy.
You know just the thought that,like, the wellness of the house
depends on her and it's a lotof pressure if the wellness of
(01:55):
her house depends on her.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Absolutely.
When I was researching Proverbs31 originally, almost every
book or blog I looked at waslike oh, the Proverbs 31 woman
is so diligent, she works sohard and you can tell because
she doesn't sleep.
She's like up late and up earlyat the same time, and every
single source that was like yourcommon teaching, not a
(02:19):
scholarly source, a sourcedirected at women and moms.
Moms talked about the Proverbs31 woman as somebody who's just
like superhero in her energy uplate, up early, always working.
That's the vibe that everybodyportrayed her as.
Have you heard that emphasisspecifically, which is not
(02:40):
sustainable, though.
Have you heard that emphasis?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, absolutely yeah,
it's very much.
It definitely sets you up for alot of failure because it isn't
sustainable.
You know it works for a weekend, or you know you can push
through it for for an event orfor a season, even if you, you
know, have the wherewithal, butat some point it's a house of
cards and it will all comecrashing down.
(03:04):
So what happens to you know?
What can we do to not make itcrash down Like it's not
sustainable?
So Proverbs 31 hopefully has alot to tell us about.
Rest.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It does, but
indirectly.
And I really want to focus onthe cultural elements and help
us reframe how we look at thesetypical verses about her staying
up late and getting up early,because people read those and I
think they assume one thing whenthe text isn't actually saying
what they are assuming.
But the idea is that she'sdoing everything and that she's
(03:44):
working all hours.
Comes from Proverbs 31, 15, and18.
So, elise, while you turn there, I just want to briefly address
the her doing everything idea.
We're not going to talk aboutthat a lot, but if you're just
tuning into this episode, thelast two episodes, we talked
about the Proverbs 31 woman'shome and her business.
So if you haven't listened tothose yet, go back, because we
(04:05):
address did the Proverbs 31woman's home and her business.
So if you haven't listened tothose yet, go back, because we
address did the Proverbs 31woman do everything?
Was she good at everything?
That question we address verymuch in the episodes on her home
and her businesses.
So go back for that idea.
But for the idea that she'sworking all the time, not
sleeping up late, up early,let's look at Proverbs 31, 15,
(04:27):
and 18.
Will you read those for me?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yes, absolutely so.
Proverbs 31, 15 says she riseswhile it is still night and
provides food for her household,and verse 18 says she sees that
her prophets are good and herlamp never goes out at night.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, We'll talk
about each of those in turn.
Let's start with the whole.
She rises while it's stillnight.
I have seen that used as kindof like parallel to Benjamin's
Franklin early to bed, early torise makes a man healthy,
wealthy and wise kind of idea.
Or it's paired with the oh,Christian mama, you want to
spend time with Jesus or getsome time to yourself?
(05:06):
Get up before your childrenevery day.
You just need to get up earlieris the advice I heard all the
time when I was a young mom.
Did you hear stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, so much yes,
yeah, yeah, and I know neither.
Before my kids.
Oh yeah, then the rest of theday would go well.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right, and I know
neither of us neither you or I
are morning people really tobegin with.
And then, god, I think yourkids sleep.
At least they sleep in betterthan mine.
One of my children has neverconsistently slept later than 5
am Ever in child's entire life.
(05:46):
Frequently, at one point thatchild was up five or six times a
night and was waking up for theday at 4.45 am.
So I'm a young mom drowning andpeople are like just get up
before your kids and I'm likewhen.
Three in the morning?
No, so let's talk about theProverbs.
(06:09):
31 woman in her context.
So today is February 13th whenwe're recording this.
So sunrise in Jerusalem.
I'm going to get technical ondetails because it matters.
Sunrise in Jerusalem.
I'm going to get technical ondetails because it matters.
Sunrise in Jerusalem.
(06:33):
This week is approximately 625,630-ish.
It's winter in the northernhemisphere and so our days are
getting longer, but slowly.
In Austin where I live, austin,texas, sunrise is about 715 am.
So days where I sub at my localpublic school, I get up at 5.40
in the morning.
Normal days for me, because ofmy husband's work schedule and
(06:54):
getting the kids to school, Iget up at 6 am.
So this time of year I'm wakingup at least an hour to an hour
and a half before the sun comesup, with that much night left.
So people utilize Proverbs 31,15,.
She rises while it's stillnight to say people need to get
up early.
(07:14):
But most people I know arealready getting up before the
sun every day, which is a lot.
It is a lot, but it's also justit's life.
It's not like this is somethingspectacular, it's just what you
do ordinary every day.
Yeah, we just get up before thesun and it's easy to do that
(07:38):
with electricity.
Um, maybe less so.
Then her being able to get upand be productive while it's
still dark outside means she hasaccess to light in her house,
which again, as we've talkedabout, denotes privilege and
wealth.
So I mentioned all this just toshow the point that the
(08:01):
majority of the year, theworking person, man or woman,
gets up while it's still dark.
So the statement that she riseswhile it's still night is
already a reality for themorning of day, shift working
people everywhere.
Yeah, that's important.
It's not a, it's not the oh,just get up before your kids,
(08:23):
kids.
It's what people are doing outof necessity and it's normal
life for a lot of people.
Can you read verse 18 for usagain?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
yes, verse 18 says
she sees that her profits are
good and her lamp never goes outat night, and we talked a lot
about this verse last when wetalked about her businesses.
So how does it relate to rest?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, just to review
for those who may not remember
the lamp going out at night isless of a statement of her
diligence, which is how it'sgenerally been interpreted, and
more of a statement of herwealth, that she has the
resources to burn her lamp atnight.
There's an old proverb thatsaid poor people don't have
(09:12):
lamps at night because theycan't afford to burn olive oil
all night.
The woman of valor can burnolive oil all night, and we see
that also in verse 18, becauseit's saying can burn olive oil
all night.
And we see that also in verse18 because it's saying she has
success in her businesses, soher lamp doesn't go out at night
.
Her business success isdirectly related to the lamp.
(09:34):
It's not that she has to worksuper hard to try to make ends
meet so she stays up late.
No, it's that she is successful.
She has literal cash to burn inher lamps.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So she it's a matter
of privilege, then.
In this case, it's a matter ofprivilege.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But I also really
want to reinterpret these verses
.
Considering a lack ofelectricity, we take electricity
for granted and don't thinkabout how bound to the sun the
ancient cultures were.
Because my work hours the sunreally doesn't impact my work
hours at all.
(10:11):
My work hours are dictated by aclock, not the sun, because if
the sun's down I just turn on anelectric lamp and I still have
plenty of light to see.
So the woman of valor had theprivilege of getting up before
the sun if she chose.
But even then you can't do thatmuch with oil lamp light.
Have you ever tried to get workdone by candlelight?
(10:35):
That's, all you have is candlesor a little oil lamp in your
house.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yes, as a matter of
fact I have, when I was teaching
in the jungle and they let goout.
Trying to do lesson plans bycandlelight is a challenge.
If the wind combines and blowsyour your candles out, then
thank God for flashlights.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Right, and hopefully
you have enough batteries a
large loom you're trying to workwith to do weaving, how easy
would that be to do with like alittle oil lamp or a candle,
because you're not just like acandle set right next to your
paper where you can see you'retrying to work on this very,
very fine project.
That's quite large with notvery much light coming in.
(11:20):
Yeah, that would be really hardin?
Yeah, that would be really hard.
So even the Proverbs 31 womanis bound by the sun, and some of
these cultures did a lot oftheir weaving outdoors.
They have archaeologicalremains of looms that were
staked to the ground outside,and so it's not even necessarily
an indoor activity.
(11:40):
It's an outdoor activity, andwhen the sun goes down, bye-bye,
we're done with work for theday, and the poor women couldn't
afford to keep lamps burning.
They had to wait on the sun,which meant a poor woman, a
regular peasant woman'sopportunity for productive labor
was diminished, not because shewasn't as diligent or as hard
(12:03):
working as the woman of valor,but because she wasn't as
privileged as the woman of valorshe was bound by the sun, yeah,
by the daylight hours.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
She had.
Yeah, and that was that's allshe had which would be what in
in israel at this time.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So um, using our
standardized time today in the
ancient world, they would justadjust their internal clocks to
whatever the sun was doing.
They didn't have time.
Like we did, their time, dailytime, like we see in the Bible,
like especially in the NewTestament.
They talk about like the first,the sixth hour of the day.
They literally went off whenthe sunrise.
They didn't have arbitrary time.
(12:40):
But if we use our arbitrarytime on the shortest days of the
year, the sun sets at 4.40 inthe afternoon in Jerusalem and
5.30 in Austin.
I'm just using Jerusalem andAustin as our two benchmarks
here.
So the shortest day of the year, the sun is up at 630 in
(13:03):
Jerusalem and down at 440 inJerusalem, which means they have
10 hours of daylight.
That's it, wow.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
On the shortest day
of the year, no.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
On the longest day of
the year, jerusalem actually
gets like 13 minutes moredaylight than Austin does I
discovered minutes more daylightthan Austin does I discovered.
But on the longest day of theyear, both places get about 14
hours.
Okay, when I polled myfollowers on Instagram, I found
(13:35):
that most of us today are awakedoing something.
We might be working, we mightbe watching Netflix, but we are
awake doing something for atleast 16 hours a day.
Wow, that's a big difference.
Yeah, so winter, the Proverbs31 woman had 10 hours of
(13:56):
daylight to work with.
Summer, when you had on, likethe summer solstice, she had 14
max, and so when we are thinkingabout her staying up late or
getting up early, that means shemight get the 16 hours that we
do every day.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So this doesn't sound
like somebody that's burning
the candle at both ends, likethis doesn't sound.
So how does that relate?
Tell us more about this, then.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So when we're talking
about length of days, that puts
definite limits on how much shecould work and it also creates
enforced rest.
She had to do something restful.
She might be able to sit by thefire and talk with people while
she's spinning or doingsomething kind of like me
(14:48):
crocheting while I watch TV atnight.
You know they might do that inthe evening but they can't work.
They're enforced by the sun.
Work is over because there isno light.
All you can do is sit and maybespin, because that's just like
tactile, you don't have to seeas much.
So the sun really enforcedstatic rest hours and it's
(15:09):
seasonal.
Some seasons they're going tobe working more than others and
that's one thing we don't have.
Our seasons don't necessarilydictate our work patterns like
theirs did.
But also, god gave his peopleIsrael Sabbath and this gift of
Sabbath was another area whereGod actually codified it into
(15:32):
law that they had to rest.
There wasn't for the averageHebrew person in the Old
Testament religious observancethey had to do on the Sabbath.
By the New Testament timespeople were going to synagogue.
A priest might have somesacrifices to do at the temple,
but the average person has nospecial religious observance to
(15:54):
do on Sabbath.
The way they observe Sabbath isby being idle, by not doing
anything, and this was mandatedby the law.
So God, through the naturalrhythms of the sun and by giving
them Sabbath, put a huge amountof rest into the daily life of
the Hebrew people of the OldTestament, which would impact
(16:15):
the Proverbs 31, woman, and howmuch she works.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That sounds amazing.
I would like Sabbath this way,right?
So when we're talking aboutSabbath, you talked about how
Sabbath is enforced in the Bible.
We see that very clearly.
What did other cultures in theancient Near East do?
How did their weeks orcalendars work?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So that's a great
question.
Most calendars in the ancientNear East were lunar calendars
to determine the months.
So they decided the months bythe waning and growing of the
moon, combined with a solarcalendar to determine the year.
So they're like lunar solarcalendars.
But the idea of a seven-dayweek was actually fairly rare in
the cultures of the ancientNear East.
The cultures that did have theidea of week which not every
(17:09):
culture did they had months andyear and seasons, but not
necessarily the week, and theyhad days obviously.
But the cultures that did havethe idea of a week, it wasn't
always seven days, like ancientEgypt had a 10 week.
The Romans had an eight dayweek.
Ancient Germans and Assyrianshad, like five day weeks oh,
(17:30):
interesting.
So they would split their monthup into these kind of week-like
periods, but they were notnecessarily seven days.
The Akkadians, who livedslightly before Abraham's time
and he may have even been intheir territory, ur and all of
that and Haran they, slightlybefore Abraham's time, created a
(17:51):
system of seven day weeks andthe Babylonians divided their
months into seven day periodsmarked by an evil day at the end
of each of the seven days.
They had an eight day week.
They had a seven day.
The seventh day was the evilday.
Oh, okay, um, but the evil daywasn't like a sabbath, it wasn't
(18:11):
a rest day, it was just a dayyou couldn't do certain
activities because ofsuperstition.
Um, they did have like onemandated rest day.
The babylonians instituted, umduring the maybe two, like on
the 15th or 20th of the month,related to the cycle of the moon
.
Like the moon has disappeared,it's resting, so we're going to
take a day off, but it was justlike one day.
(18:34):
They did have five or sixholidays every month, but those
holidays didn't necessarily meanthey got a break from work.
There's just some sort ofreligious thing going on that
may or may not impact theaverage person.
So from my brief research, theconsensus is that Egypt seemed
(18:58):
to have a little bit of aweekend, at least at one period.
Little bit of a weekend, atleast at one period.
Um, they seem to have a two-dayweekend at the end of their
10-day weeks for at least theroyal craftsmen and artisans.
That didn't necessarily impactwomen, slaves, the average
person, but at least some of themucky mucks got a weekend every
(19:21):
10-day week.
They're the one culture whokind of had that idea.
But other than that the ancientNear East didn't seem to have
any concept of Sabbath thatapplied to the entire population
.
The Romans actually ridiculedthe Jewish people for being idle
(19:44):
one day of the week.
They're like you are lazy slobsfor taking one day a week for a
Sabbath.
So this is an idea that wasvery foreign to the ancient Near
East, but it is an idea thatGod instituted in the Bible,
this one out of seven rest day,and it applied from top to
bottom the king to the slave, tothe cow, to the horse.
(20:05):
Everybody was supposed to rest.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's so interesting
how radical this is when you
understand what the rest of theancient Near East was doing.
It really is radical what Godwas asking Israel to do.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Mm.
Hmm, it really was, becausethere had to be so much faith.
And we see that with the mannawhere he's like on the sixth day
you pick up twice as much mannabecause there will be some
leftover for the seventh day andsome people didn't believe.
So they go out on the seventhday and there's no food.
God's like.
I told you to pick up twice asmuch Because we do have that
(20:47):
adage.
A woman's work is never doneand throughout history women
have often been in charge of thedaily repetitive tasks to which
there is really no end.
You always have dishes andlaundry and cooking and grinding
and weaving and all the things.
Those are just all the timethings Planting and harvesting.
You have set times of year andthen you're done.
But women's work is thisrepetitive all the time work.
And God was like for six days.
(21:09):
You have your repetitive allthe time work and then one day
you're done.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You have to nurse
your baby, you know you have to
parent your children, you haveto feed your animals.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yep, but you're not
doing that.
Anything extra, anything extra,that, anything extra, anything
extra.
And so God really surroundedhis people in the Old Testament
with rest, and it's reallyincredible how much rest he
(21:39):
actually, either through thecreated order or through the
Mosaic law, gave his people.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So how much rest then
?
Do you figure people in theBible are getting using our time
, and what we can tell from theancient Near East and the laws
that God gave for Sabbath I?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
love this question.
So a while back I'mbacktracking, then I'm going to
answer your question.
A while back I read an articleand you can find the note to
that in the show notes.
I read an article that saidyour average healthy,
neurotypical, non-traumatizedperson needs a 42% rest rate.
Which that rest rate wouldinclude sleep, exercise, eating,
(22:20):
meals, personal hygiene,leisure, etc.
Just all of that stuff hygiene,leisure, etc.
Just all of that stuff 42% oftheir time they need to spend in
some sort of rest to keepthemselves from moving into
burnout.
And that is for yourneurotypical, non-traumatized,
average, healthy person 42%.
So I decided I was like, oh,that's really fascinating.
(22:43):
42%.
That seems high.
But I want to think about this.
So I sat down and I did all themath to look at Israel and see
how much rest did God giveIsrael throughout a year.
So if I average the entire yearfor Israel, with the sun and
(23:04):
with Sabbath hours, yep,daylight hours and Sabbath, not
including extra holidays wherethey had to rest I didn't feel
like figuring those out, so justSabbath and daylight, Israel's
average rest rate was 57%.
(23:25):
That's incredible.
So modern science is like 42%rest rate to keep yourself from
burnout.
God is like average over a year57% rest rate the shortest or
the longest days of the year.
So middle of summer, when youmight be doing your most
harvesting and stuff, the peopleof Israel might have gotten
(23:45):
maybe a 50% rest rate during thelongest days of the year, but
that is the minimum that Godgave his people 50%, which is 8%
higher than science said.
And then on the shortest daysof the year, the rest rate for
Israel goes up to about 64%.
Of their time they were restingof some kind, assuming even if
(24:11):
they're awake, they're doingmore leisure type activities
whittling, spinning, talking,sharing stories around the fire
in the evening before they go tobed.
And so, rather than the womanof valor being an example of
capitalistic productivity, whenwe logically think through the
ramifications of daily life in apre-industrialized society
(24:34):
dictated by the Mosaic law,she's actually an example of
rest for us.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Incredible.
Not what is usually taught whenwe think about Proverbs 31.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, and I love that
the authors talk about people
leaving 42%.
God is like bet, I'm going tomake it a minimum of average, 57
, easy, and I just think that isso cool easy and I just think
(25:10):
that is so cool.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So how can we tell if
we're getting enough rest, or
even what our rest looks like.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, because I'm
sure we're like, hey, what's my
rest rate?
What's normal?
Yeah, yeah.
So I actually made and you canget this on my website.
Look at the show notes and Ihave the link and everything for
you there.
I made a rest rate worksheet.
It's not perfect, but it atleast helps us think through
what rest percentage am I atright now and where might I need
(25:35):
to shift some stuff in lifearound to increase that rate,
because I think the hard datacan help us see.
Oh yeah, this is why I'm tiredall the time, because my rest
rate is really low and I need tomake a focus on raising that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah.
So you sent me this worksheetand I have it like half filled
out and my husband's going tofill it out and I'm excited
because I think it will reallyhelp my husband and I to talk
through how we can better useour time wisely so that we're
both getting better rest.
So I'm really excited aboutyour worksheet because my rest
(26:15):
rate is not good.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So what is your rest
rate?
Talking about 42% beingstandard and God having a
minimum of 50%, what is yours?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I'm at like 37.
So I'm like on the highest ofburnout.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You're headed for
burnout.
I'm not doing good.
That's fair and that is greatto recognize, because none of
this is like a static.
You have to be at 42 or 50% oryou're in sin, like I've.
I had some people test out thisout and they were really
worried because they were in the30s and I'm like it's not a sin
(26:55):
issue, you know you're not bad,but it does let you know.
Oh, I may need to restructuresome things in life.
I need to sit down and have aconversation with my husband.
I need to think, maybe, how Ican just get a few more hours to
rest, because sometimes, withdifferent seasons, you just
can't find more rest time.
(27:17):
But maybe I can eke out twohours even though I can't get
20%.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think it's such a
really.
I think it will really be ahelpful tool to help figure out
you know how to better use whattime we have.
You know even just those extracouple of minutes per day, if
you have a couple extra minutesper day.
Or figuring out how torestructure.
You know the women of valor gottakeout.
(27:43):
You know she bought the bread,so that's what it takes you know
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, and I have noticed in myown life I think right now I am
somewhere and I purposely gavemyself a swath because it can
vary week to week I'm typicallysomewhere between 48 and 57%
(28:09):
rest rate right now and myhusband and I work hard to
prioritize rest and mine isslightly lower because I'm
purposely working a few morehours.
Right now I have some contractprojects and other things I'm
doing that I need to focus onand I love that and in some ways
, some of that work it's kind ofrestful but I don't count it as
rest, but I can also tell thatI'm doing that.
I need to focus on and I lovethat and in some ways some of
that work.
It's kind of restful, but Idon't count it as rest.
(28:30):
But I can also tell that I'mrunning.
I'm running about my minimum,like I know.
If I get lower than 48 to 57%I'm headed for burnout so
quickly.
And when I get to burnout I'mgoing to be like I'll get the
bare minimum done and then haveto rest the rest of the time.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So safeguarding
yourself from getting to burnout
is helpful in the end, notletting yourself get there to
begin with.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
And that's one way I
feel like this rest worksheet is
helpful, because you know, youare looking at your rest rate
and you're like, oh, I'm in the30s, this might not be good.
I've been struggling with X, yand Z and maybe some of that is
because I'm not getting the restI need, and so you're looking
(29:20):
at what are some concrete thingsI can do to change that.
Yeah, so one other thing Ithink is really important,
because science talks about the42% rate for the non-traumatized
, neurotypical, healthy person.
And one thing I put on my restworksheet that I want, I think
is important to consider,because during one season of
(29:41):
life you may find, hey, I canrock it out at a 45% rest rate
and I'm just going, I'm flying.
I should sit down and calculatewhat my rest rate was when I
was single in seminary versuswhat I needed to be as a mom.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I was just going to
say that.
I was going to say that as asingle person.
What did I do?
Because it's drasticallydifferent.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
It's drastically
different and I have a page on
the rest worksheet that saysthat.
That walks you through.
Considering some life factorslike is there neurodivergent?
Are you neurodivergent?
Do you have mental healthstruggles?
Do you have a history of traumaor disability or chronic
illness?
Are you a parent of somebodywith those things?
Are you a spouse of someonewith those things?
Do you lack a support system?
Are you caregiving smallchildren or the sick or the
(30:28):
elderly?
And those things will make yourbaseline rest needs go up.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
That's so important
to recognize.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Or seasonal stressors
pregnancy, death, divorce,
estrangement, moving, newcommunity sickness.
Maybe you're just in a monthwhere everybody's sick all the
time.
You're going to need to takethat and be like, okay, normally
I can do great with 50% rest,but my kids have been sick for
six weeks, so maybe I shouldmake a goal to bump up to maybe
(30:58):
60% rest this week.
And the rest rates I calculateover a week, not daily, cause,
like I rest a lot more on theweekend than I do during the
weekdays, that makes sense.
But I really wanted to includethose life factors and seasonal
stressors into this, not thatthey give us exact numbers, but
(31:20):
just to help us be aware of wow,I'm at, you know, 40 to 60% on
the chart.
That seems like it should be agood amount of rest.
That's what God gave Israel.
But when you start consideringall of the massive life factors
many of us are carrying, weactually need more rest than
(31:41):
this.
I sat down with a friend who isneurodivergent, with a massive
history of trauma, who has kidswith massive trauma and
neurodivergence.
Yeah, yeah, rest guilt-free 80%of the time and then 20% of the
time you will hopefully havethe energy you're looking for to
(32:08):
do the work you want to bedoing, but you can take all of
those things into considerationand you're not beating yourself
up because you need a 60, 70,80% rest rate.
You're giving your body what itneeds for the things God's
allowed in your life and then,when you do have energy, you can
work hard as unto the Lordwithin a reasonable timeframe,
(32:32):
rather than needing an 80% restrate or a 60% rest rate but
trying to function with only a40% rest rate and just making
everything worse.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
That's so important
and throughout, like this whole
podcast, we've been talkingabout how Proverbs 31, as it's
usually taught put so muchpressure on us women, and I
think that when hearing you talkabout rest and the Proverbs 31
woman and everything thatProverbs 31 has to teach us
(33:03):
about rest, this is another areawhere we can see God's plan
taking that pressure off, whichis wonderful.
It's so helpful.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, no, God's plan
for women is restful.
Jesus says come to me, you whoare weary and heavy laden, and I
will give you rest.
That is what Jesus offers.
He is not offering the yoke ofget up early, stay up late, work
, work, work.
It's your job to manage all ofyour family's physical,
(33:37):
emotional, spiritual, et ceteraneeds by yourself, because
you're the woman and you have tohelp.
That's not what's going on.
God orchestrated for women a 50%rest rate minimum.
And that was unheard of in theancient culture.
(33:58):
Even cultures that did havedays off, it didn't necessarily
consider women or slaves.
Yeah, that's incredible.
And so everyone listening.
I just really want to drivehome God values you resting.
Even the early church fathersand I'm kind of irritated with
(34:22):
them about this, as they triedto separate the Christian
Sabbath or Sunday worship fromthe Jewish Sabbath they joined
the Romans in calling the Jewishpeople idol.
And the early church fathersare like you don't need to take
Sunday off, you just have tomake sure you make time to
worship on Sunday.
(34:43):
So in some ways they even wereproponents of seven-day work
weeks, as long as you worship onSunday, because it's about your
heart and your worship ratherthan understanding the Old
Testament, Sabbath includedcessation from labor as central
to your religious observance.
(35:03):
Because, being an importantdistinction.
Because being willing to stopworking is a matter of faith,
saying God, I can't do it all.
I am going to rest because youmade me finite and I'm going to
trust you with the excess,because you are on your throne,
you are ruling, keeping chaos atbay, and I am going to rest
(35:28):
even though the dishes and theprojects are not done, because
you desire rest, and rest is thegift you give your children
over and over and over again inyour word.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
That's incredible.
All right, so we've learned allabout what Proverbs 31 has to
say about rest, but this isn'tnecessarily attainable for
everyone.
So to the person who doesn'thave a very good helpful network
(36:06):
or maybe they're just in areally hard season of their life
where they don't have theprivilege to outsource where you
know would otherwise be helpful, what can you say to that
person about rest?
How does rest in Proverbs 31apply to this person?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
First I just want to
acknowledge the hard season in
place that they are in.
I want to acknowledge and I'vebeen there.
I've been there where I have achronically ill spouse, I have
neurodivergent, undiagnosedneurodivergent kids that I don't
know what to do with, who areup each multiple times a night,
(36:47):
medical bills you can't pay,basically single mom caregiving
a chronically ill person, and soI have so much compassion and
love for that situation.
And first I just want toreemphasize how much rest we get
(37:07):
as new covenant Christians isnot a moral issue.
Does God desire rest for us?
Yes, are we sinful?
Are we in sin if life will notallow that rest?
No, there may be sin for thosewho are just like I'm not going
(37:27):
to rest because I don't need it.
That's a completely differentissue that we're not talking
about right now.
But for that person, I mean, Idon't have, and I don't think
there are clear-cut, easyanswers If you don't have
community and everything is justcrashing in.
Some seasons are like that,sometimes life is like that, and
(37:54):
so my encouragement is to findrest where you can, rest where
you can, to lower expectationswhere you can.
For me, I remember when apastor's wife sat me down and
(38:15):
was like girlfriend, you need tomake a menu for a couple weeks
and just repeat it over and over.
Stop reinventing the wheel.
Like you don't have to beputting in that much effort on
this task.
Allowing you know, and maybeyou're at the point where you're
like I've already lowered thebar.
It's on the floor.
Like it's under the floor and Ijust want to.
(38:36):
I want to say God sees youthere, yeah, and being outside
the situation, I can't be like A, b, c and D will solve it.
It won't.
It won't Some of thesesituations.
You don't have a community tostep in and watch your kids or
help with the caretaking.
You don't have, maybe, a spousewho's supportive.
You don't have these things.
(38:57):
But I trust that you are tryingto make the best decisions you
can and don't feel guilty whenyou have moments of rest, even
if there's so much that needs tobe done because you have so
much on your plate.
Allow yourself, by faith, torest when you can, and even if
(39:21):
that means like passing out,even if that means like passing
out at six o'clock, you know, orsitting and spending three
hours binge watching yourfavorite show, because you're
not necessarily ready to go tobed, but you're just done.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And allow yourself to
do, because when you're in that
place where there's just somuch you can, you can feel
guilty for the little bits ofrest you have and so really
enjoy those moments.
Um, what thoughts do you have,elise?
I, what comes to mind, um, issomething that, um, margaret
bronson has actually talkedabout, and it's something I used
to do even before it waspointed out to me, and that's
kind of a thought exercise, youknow.
We know, as believers, that Godis with us, jesus is with us,
(40:21):
and Margaret talked a lot aboutreparenting yourself, imagining
Jesus with you and whetherthat's.
You know, if you need a father,you know, imagining him as your
father and you as a child beingone of those children that came
and sat on Jesus' knees in aplayful, not creepy way, you
(40:44):
know, in a playful, not creepyway, you know.
Or whether that's needing Jesusas a friend, and imagining him
sitting next to you and justhaving that conversation in your
head, allowing yourself to justkind of relax into that.
This is someone who loves meand cares for me, and I can
(41:05):
relax and allow myself to be.
You know, the best friendshipis the friendship where the
quietness is not awkward, youknow, allowing yourself to just
sit in that, and so I think,especially in the deep moments
of burnout, when we're at thevery end of our rope which right
(41:29):
now I'm definitely on the tailend of that, hopefully the tail
end of that In those momentswhen I have 15 minutes, while my
husband's giving the kids asnack, and I get to go to my
quiet, dark bedroom and lay onthe bed and just imagining like
I can just be here, I don't haveto say anything to Jesus, and
(41:53):
maybe it's just Jesus I'm tired,yeah, I'm tired, and I don't
know what to make for supper.
But just give me rest.
And I think that some of mybest naps have been when I have
fallen asleep, just reallyconnected to God's presence.
(42:13):
And so, even in those reallyreally tiny moments when my
heart is breaking or whencircumstances are hard, allowing
myself to be like Mary ofBethany who sits at Jesus' feet,
and it doesn't change asituation After my nap, I still
have to get up, I still have tomake supper, I still have to
(42:34):
take care of screaming kids, butfor that 15 minutes or for that
20 minutes, I got to rest, andso I think that that's that's
important, that's what I wouldsay, and it's not a huge thing,
but it's something that makes adifference.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
And remembering that
the demands God places on us are
not always the same as what theChristian culture has placed on
us.
There are so many and theydon't mean them necessarily as
demands, but like you need to doyour devos and pray and do all
(43:17):
these things which are goodspiritual practices, but to
remember that God is offering usrest and he's not making a
million demands of us.
There's a verse in Isaiah thattalks about how God leads the
sheep gently.
He leads the ewes that are withyoung.
(43:38):
God knows what it's like forthe new mom with three other
kids who's just trying to holdit all together while her
husband works three jobs.
He knows what it's like for thecaregiver of the chronically
ill person who literally cannottake a break because there's no
one else to care for this person.
(43:58):
God knows and his expectationsfor the caregiver and the weak
and the wounded and the wearyare not a checklist of
performance-oriented goals.
It is literally exactly whatyou described and I've done that
so many times myself Just theI'm going to collapse on this
(44:20):
couch and, you know,proverbially put my head in
Jesus' lap and fall asleep.
Just the comfort of thepresence, knowing that I have
nothing left and God isn'texpecting me, he isn't looking
for me to give him anything else.
I feel like sometimes what Ilearned was that God is
(44:46):
demanding as much from me as allthe people in my life, but he's
not.
He is offering to us.
He's offering His presence,he's offering Himself, he's
offering rest and even if wecan't get the rest percentage up
or the hours of rest, he isoffering us a lack of demands
(45:09):
coming from him.
He is offering himself as anon-demanding presence, which is
amazing, which we need so badlyespecially we're in burnout or
caregiver fatigue or any of thatto know that God is offering
himself as a non-demandingpresence where we can just
(45:31):
literally collapse and cry orwhatever.
It's completely beautiful.
I know there have been so manytimes, especially last year.
I felt like most of last year Iwas trying to work myself out
(45:52):
of burnout and there were somany times I'd be sitting and
all I had capacity for was likeplaying video games on my Switch
and feeling guilty that I'm notdoing something else and I'm
just kind of praying throughthat as I'm playing and just
feeling from the Lord.
Just this, jessica, this is mygift to you right now.
This is a restful, soothingactivity for you to do in a life
(46:12):
that is not restful or soothing.
And I am offering this to youwithout guilt, without strings
attached, and so for the personwho's in burnout, or just life,
I mean, elise and I would loveto stop by your house and like
make life stop and give you rest, and we can't, and we pray and
long that you would findcommunity to step in and be the
(46:34):
hands and feet of Jesus for you.
But know, even when you don'thave that community, that God is
offering himself, not as atrite Jesus is your rest, but he
is a non-demanding presence.
He's not demanding that youfind Jesus to be your rest.
And that's where I got hung upLike, oh, I have to find Jesus
(46:58):
as my rest, and that became ato-do that was stressful,
because am I resting in Jesus?
I don't know if I'm resting inJesus, which is different than
like he's already there andthere's no demands, and he's
just like come here, come sleep.
I don't need you to pray, Idon't need you to read your
Bible, I don't need you to doall the things, just you're okay
, I got you, you are safe.
(47:19):
So that's what I think we wouldlike to offer the people in
that situation.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
So we're back to my
favorite question.
Every week, this is my favoritequestion what do these passages
tell us about rest and how wecan apply it to us today?
How does God delight in womenas regards to rest and Proverbs
31?
Speaker 1 (47:47):
God likes it when
women take time off to rest.
Mic drop Boom Rather thanProverbs 31, 15, and 18 being
like work harder, be morediligent.
It is a call for us to examine,because she's not doing
(48:08):
anything that we're not alreadydoing.
And it's a call for us toexamine what is God actually
asking us to do?
What was the gift he gaveIsrael?
What was the gift he gave womenthat no one else in the ancient
world was giving women?
No one.
Because even though upperclasses may have had certain
(48:30):
rest days, the lower classes andthe women didn't, and God
worked that into his covenantand his promises.
God delights in women gettingrest.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
He does not delight
in women working 24-7, burning
themselves out to reach animaginary standard of good
motherhood or good womanhood.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
That's important.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
We are not created to
do everything or work nonstop
that's important or do what isneeded for the good of our
bodies, and recognize the partthat he plays in sustaining us
through all of that.
That's so incredible.
(49:37):
Well, thank you all for joiningus for this conversation on
rest.
I had so much fun talking aboutit.
Be sure to get the restworksheet from my website.
Send me a DM or an email if youhave questions about that.
I love talking people throughit.
Next time on the podcast andit's free.
(49:57):
Right, it is free.
Yes, thank you.
Free worksheet.
Yes, next time on the podcast,we're going to be talking about
the woman of valor, hercommunity and her children, so
that will be a really funconversation.
I think Elise and I areplanning on talking a little bit
about mothering, maybedefinitely about community and
(50:18):
friendship, and that will be areally fun conversation, so be
sure to tune in then.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
May the Lord bless you and keepyou.
May his face shine upon you andgive you peace.
Have a great day.