March 5, 2025 • 39 mins
We explore the profound intersection of sexuality and faith with our guest, Laurie Krieg, whose transformative journey into ministry provides vital insights. Laurie's mission is equipping parents and individuals on navigating sexuality within a gospel-centered framework.
- Lori shares her story of personal struggle and the need for deeper understanding
- Understanding sexual brokenness and its impact on faith
- Insights into parenting and preparing kids for conversations on sexuality
- Strategies for engaging with LGBTQ peers compassionately
- Emphasizing Christ-centered love and identity beyond attractions
- Resources and projects Lori is developing for parents
Follow Laurie on social media @laurie_krieg or visit her website www.lauriekrieg.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica LM Jenkins (00:01):
Hello there.
I am so thankful for everyonewho is listening in.
Today we are taking a breakfrom our Women in Context series
to have a conversation with thedelightful and wise Lori Craig.
Lori is a coach, speaker,author and podcast host whose
mission is to equip Jesusfollowers with gospel-centered
(00:21):
approach to sexuality.
She lives in Michigan with herhusband, Matt, and their three
kids.
Welcome, Lori, I am so excitedto have you here.
I'm so glad to be with you, so Iknow you love teaching about
how the gospel interplays withmarriage, sexuality and all
aspects of life.
Can you tell us how God drewyou into this particular
(00:42):
ministry?
Laurie Krieg (00:50):
God drew you into this particular ministry.
Yeah, the short story of thelong story is in college.
My sexuality and my faithreally collided.
I met another woman who I wasdrawn to romantically and I had
felt glimmers of attractiongrowing up, but it was in
college, even though I was goingto Christian college and I love
Jesus, and I didn't even fit myown stereotypes of what a
(01:14):
homosexual person I say with airquotes because that was kind of
the language in the early 2000sbut a gay person might look
like or act like, and so I wasreally surprised that this draw
was so intense.
I ended up in a secret same-sexrelationship with her and really
my faith and my sexualitycollided, and the help for me
(01:38):
was not bashing my own head withpassages about the prohibitions
against marriage.
It was someone discipling meand really coming alongside and
helping me understand the deeperdesires underneath the wants or
the attractions that I felt.
It was really the desirebeneath the desire was to be
(02:02):
seen and known and loved, and myparticular version of sexual
brokenness that God has allowedin me because of the fall tells
me that I can get those needs tobe seen and known and loved in
another woman.
Now the antidote is not to findmy completion in a man, it's,
(02:22):
of course, to find it in Christ,and so someone helped me to
really not just know God with mymind, but to experience the
love of God in the deepestplaces of my pain and shame, and
that love has power to help usto die to ourself every day, and
(02:42):
so that was really the rescuefor me.
Jessica LM Jenkins (02:45):
I love that and I remember reading a lot of
that story in your book onmarriage Impossible Marriage
which we'll talk about here in amoment.
But besides that book, whatother projects are you working
on right now?
Laurie Krieg (02:57):
I know you have a podcast but what else do you
have going on?
Yes, I'm working on two bigprojects right now.
One is I just got hired on tobe a part of the Center for
Faith, sexuality and Gender,where I served as a board member
.
Now I am the Director of ParentPrograms and Development, so
I'm helping to expand theCenter's reach to really equip
parents, to help equip theirkids in areas of sexuality and
(03:22):
gender with peaceful, gospelshaped confidence.
So how can we help parentsequip their kids?
So we're trying to teachparents to teach their kids, and
so the two projects I'm workingon one is a film project, a
discipleship curriculum forparents, and another one is a
book with inner varsity on thesame topics.
Jessica LM Jenkins (03:42):
I love that.
I know a lot of the questions.
I asked my followers onInstagram to send in questions
for you and a lot of thequestions I got related to
parenting and these things.
So we'll get into those in afew minutes.
One thing I always ask all ofmy podcast guests and I want to
ask you is who is your favoritewoman of the Bible and why?
Laurie Krieg (04:05):
Who is your favorite woman of the Bible and
why?
Oh, I love the woman caught inadultery.
I so felt like her when I wasreally in my deepest wrestling
with my faith and sexuality isis.
I almost wanted people to throwstones at me because it that's
what I felt like I deserved.
Yeah, he's like.
(04:26):
Sometimes when you're living inshame, the visceral pain feels
like that's going to like uh,the the desire for punishment
for sin, like it's it'sinstinctive within us yes.
And yet Jesus stepped in and hetook her punishment.
He takes mine and it's stillpowerful.
Jessica LM Jenkins (04:49):
I love that.
That is incredibly beautifulbecause I know myself that
visceral desire for punishmentwhen I'm in shame.
I just love how you put thatinto words and related it to the
woman caught in adultery, whichis an amazing passage.
So I've read your bookImpossible Marriage and I got a
(05:12):
couple notes that just wanted tothank you for writing the book.
One of the people is in aneurodivergent marriage, which
is different than what youdescribed, but there's so few
marriage books that we've beenable to discover that have that
go outside the norm, that dealwith marriages highly impacted
by trauma, by same-sexattraction, by neurodivergence,
(05:33):
by disability.
There's so few books that dealwith those sorts of marriages
that yours can.
Really, with the unique focuses, it has really fit for a lot of
those couples.
So first I just want to thankyou for writing the book and say
that for myself and some of mylisteners it's been incredibly
(05:56):
impactful.
But for those who aren'tfamiliar with your book, which
is titled An Impossible Marriage, can you share some of what led
you to write that book and whatthe book is about?
Laurie Krieg (06:08):
I mean I can say a big reason I wrote the book is
exactly what your listeners saidis I was really sick of being a
footnote in like normalmarriage books.
They're like oh well, if you'vehad trauma, see a counselor.
If you have same-sex attraction, uh, I don't think they exist
(06:29):
or like neurodiversity probablyis not, not even in anyone's
brain.
So I I get that it's not thenorm, but I don't think we
should always then be relegatedto a footnote, and I really
wanted to take our unique, whatI call an impossible marriage
and really kind of do what thecross did.
(06:51):
If I may be so bold and sayactually every marriage is
impossible, and where the crosswas a place of shame and where
my marriage people could be likeoh, you have a same sex
attraction, your husband wasaddicted to porn, you should
feel shame about that, and justlike how the cross is something,
a place of shame that God usedfor our glory.
(07:14):
God can use these impossiblesituations of suffering for our
good, in God's glory and toreally show the world too, every
marriage is impossible.
Yeah, because it's supposed toshow when you love this other
person.
You show the world a picture ofhow Jesus did the impossible
(07:36):
and he came to earth, died adeath that you deserve and in
order to be one with you.
Our marriages display that aglimmer of that union.
So I wanted to pull our storyof my uh default attractions
toward other women, even thoughI am married to a man.
(07:56):
Uh, it's, our hearts connect.
If people are like, how doesthat work?
Isn't attraction like thebiggest part of marriage?
And if you're honest and you'vebeen married more than five
minutes, usually attraction isnot the core of your marriage.
There's other layers ofintimacy that can grow and lead
to physical intimacy.
But that's how our marriageworks.
(08:18):
We just kind of walked into itwith uh eyes wider open than
perhaps some do in areas ofattraction.
Jessica LM Jenkins (08:26):
Yeah, On the topic of attraction, one of the
questions I got was are manypeople in mixed orientation
marriages actually just bisexual, or are they actually married
to someone they are not sexuallyattracted to?
Laurie Krieg (08:49):
sexually attracted to.
So I do not think that LGBTQpeople are ontologically a
different form of human.
Okay, I don't think we.
I don't think I'm a different.
I think there's humans andthere's God's design for human
sexuality and then that's it.
It's like here's what you'resupposed to do with it.
So I actually I understand thehow labels like bisexuality et
(09:12):
cetera can help put language toour internal experience.
So I get that.
But I really think I mean.
Studies show if you look at LisaDiamond's work human sexuality
is very fluid, especially forwomen, yes, and even men.
So I I struggle with some ofthose boxes of um that that put
(09:37):
labels on people.
So I I'm like just gonnadefault.
I'm just gonna say the question.
I don't call myself bisexual, Icall myself broken, broken.
My sexuality is broken and if Istruggle with lust, it's toward
women.
But I love Matt and I'mcommitted to him.
And when we grow in a in heartattraction, uh, in in union,
(09:59):
that leads to a desire forphysical union.
So not sure I answered thequestion, but that's how I see
it.
Jessica LM Jenkins (10:06):
That's wonderful, and that relates to
the next question I have, whichsomebody was wondering why do
people use the term gayChristian?
Why don't they just confesstheir struggle but not frame it
as a core part of their identity?
Why abstain?
Why not just abstain fromsame-sex desires to enjoy
(10:27):
pursuing straight marriage?
Laurie Krieg (10:29):
That was a lot, but it was a lot Okay, so I'll
just start with why do peoplecall themselves gay Christian
core identity?
I would just say we don'tactually know how people who
identify as gay Christian seethemselves and if it is a part
of their core identity.
99.9% of the people whoidentify as gay Christians who I
know they would not say it's apart of their core identity.
(10:52):
They would say Jesus is my coreidentity and this is a
descriptor that helps todescribe my internal experience
and it's an easy way for me totell people how I view the world
.
So that's usually how.
And then to the last point,like why don't they just pursue
(11:12):
a straight marriage?
That gets into the beauty ofthis conversation in the sense
that that's not the purpose ofour life.
The purpose of our life is notto get married and make
Christian babies and tithe anddie.
Jessica LM Jenkins (11:34):
Yes, preach.
Laurie Krieg (11:36):
The church's missional vocation is to advance
the kingdom of God untileveryone everywhere is living in
joyful submission to King Jesus.
Marriage and singleness areequally valuable ways that we
advance God's kingdom.
So I would say why do they haveto pursue a straight marriage?
Why can't they say this is myexperience, if they want to talk
(12:00):
about that or not, and thenthey advance god's kingdom.
Now we could ask a questionabout is it wisest to identify
as a gay christian?
You could ask that question,but that's I'm not going to be
judge and jury about that.
I think.
I think I can understand whypeople would choose to call
themselves that and why theywouldn't.
Jessica LM Jenkins (12:20):
Absolutely.
And so, as someone whoexperiences same-sex attraction
and who is a mom, what would yousay your biggest piece of
advice if you were to just boilit down simply for parents
parenting their children?
Today, in 2025, with the LGBTQconcerns floating in the world,
(12:42):
what's your one digested pieceof parenting advice?
Laurie Krieg (12:49):
Honestly, it trickles on the heels of what I
just said.
I think a reason we'repanicking is because we have
preached a gospel of the purposeof your life is to find an
opposite sex.
Christian spouse make christianbabies, tithe and die.
Yeah, I am all about babies,but because the greater desire
(13:17):
for god is for us to be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and
subdue it to advance his kingdom, which includes kids, but it
also includes transforming kidsinto disciples of God, and so I
think our biggest thing is totake a deep breath and remember
(13:38):
this is all about the kingdom ofGod, and no matter how our kids
experience their version ofsexual brokenness, it does not
change God's mission.
I pray for a day where kids wakeup and if they're like, oh man,
I'm attracted to the same sex,and they shrug.
(14:00):
If they were like oh man, I'mattracted to the same sex, and
they shrug, I love that.
They say, oh well, that's myversion of sexual brokenness.
I'm called to surrender to theLordship of Christ.
Does God, is God going to drawme towards someone of the
opposite sex and that's how Isteward my sexuality?
Or is he calling me to celibatesingleness and I give up sex
and heirs, biological heirs forthe glory of God.
(14:21):
Sex and heirs biological heirsfor the glory of God.
But it does not change mypurpose or the vision of God for
the world or for me.
It's still dope, yeah, sothat's.
That's.
My biggest thing is I thinkthat we can bless this
conversation because it's makingChristians wake up and say up
and say what is the purpose ofChristians' lives.
Jessica LM Jenkins (14:42):
Mm-hmm, yeah , and I love that singular focus
of this is what God has createdus to do.
Having a marriage and familycan be one expression of that,
but especially recording thisjust on the heels of Valentine's
Day, which was last week and Isaw all throughout social media
(15:03):
a real emphasis, especially insome Christian circles, on
marriage even setting a tablefor your child's future spouse
at the table yeah, this kind ofidolatry of marriage and some of
those things.
I love how you're reframingthat.
That.
That is just one expression ofhow we can fully glorify God and
(15:26):
that can't be our primary focus.
Laurie Krieg (15:30):
No, it's idolatry.
Marriage is so good becausewhen two different people die to
self to be one in a covenant,it shows a picture how Jesus is
so different from us, but hedied to be one with us.
He covenanted to us.
Marriage is great, but it'sbecause it's a part of the
(15:54):
greater purpose of our lives,which is to advance the kingdom
of God until everyone everywhereis living in joyful submission
to King Jesus.
Jessica LM Jenkins (16:01):
Amen, amen.
So to take some of thesethoughts and make them more
practical for the parents in thenitty-gritty day-to-day with
their kids interacting withpeople in their communities how
do we prepare our kids forinteractions with LGBTQ people
classmates, friends they have atschool, especially if our child
(16:25):
is feeling weird or nervousabout engaging people like that?
Laurie Krieg (16:32):
We need to do what-if scenarios in our home.
Okay, we need to be talkinghand-in-hand.
What is the truth and why isGod's design for marriage?
This and I really, when wespeak truth, I'm not saying you
say the theology of no, I wantparents to understand the
theology of yes.
Why is it male-female marriage?
(16:54):
Well, because same-sex marriageis bad.
It's Adam and Eve, not Adam andSteve.
No, it's two different things.
Come together to show the worldhow God is so different from us
, but he wants union with us.
What's the yes, then?
At the same time, we need tosay how do we interact with
people?
So I was just talking aboutthis in a meeting, right before
talking with you is.
I was sharing a story when ourdaughters were seven and eight
(17:16):
years old and they were going topublic school and my daughter
was going to bring a neck pillowfor pajama day that had a
picture of Jojo Siwa on it and Iwas like, oh, my kids don't
know that she's gay and I wonderhow these other kids are going
to make fun of her or what.
So I did it.
Hey guys, I just want you toknow did you know that Jojo Siwa
(17:38):
is actually dating a girl?
And my girls were six and eightat the time and they're like,
what it's like?
Yeah, and I was like, why isthat not God's best?
Why does he not want us to datesomeone of the same sex?
And I had them say it back tome and they say the word they
automatically, they knowdifferent and so they spit that
back at me.
Different Marriage has to bedifferent because God is so
(17:59):
different from us.
And when moms and dads loveeach other, they show me a
picture of how God loves me.
My kids I've been hearing thatsince they were three years old.
Different is the key word.
So I'm saying truth, I'm sayingit from a theology of yes, lens,
a positive gospel vision.
Now let's talk about the praxis, let's talk about how we live
(18:21):
that out.
So I said so what if someone inyour class is dating someone or
likes like, like, likes, or Isay the word hard eyes that's
their language, like they, hardeyes another girl?
How do we treat them?
So I just did the truth.
Now we're going to do the love,yes, which those are together,
but let's just talk about thegrace piece.
So they're going to they would.
(18:42):
I mean honestly, kids might saythings like oh, we should hate
them or we should tell them it'swrong, like kids are just going
to say whatever.
And this is where I can correcton this end.
Just like I would correct onthe truth end, let's correct on
the grace end.
You know, I love you guys somuch, but you know what?
Actually, we are going toalways love our friends because
(19:04):
you know what they, thesefriends actually don't even know
Jesus.
And you know, when we don'tknow Jesus, why would we follow
Jesus's way?
And so this is God's way.
Is this theology of thismarriage?
This is like this, but theworld doesn't know that.
So what we're going to do iswe're going to love our friends,
even if they're not choosingGod's way, because they need to
know God before they chooseGod's way.
So that's one way is to dosomething like we're going to
(19:27):
love people.
Now there's more conversationswe can have, but I'll just pause
there because that's a lot.
Jessica LM Jenkins (19:33):
No, but that's such.
I love the.
I really appreciate how youstart with the truth and you
bring it back to that and thenyou get to the practical.
How do we do this, day in, dayout?
Who they are experiencing forlack of a better term internal
fear, stress, nervousness.
(19:54):
Their kids are also feelingthat, just about being in the
same space as those who identifywith the LGBTQ team.
(20:15):
So how would you, what wordswould you have for those who are
dealing with?
They get that.
We need to love, we need to bekind, but they're dealing with
internal fear, almost like ifI'm around them, is it going to
rub off?
Or how do I even stay in thesame physical space with these
people who are so different fromme and have such different
(20:37):
values than me?
I know I need to love them, butI'm actually in some ways,
nervous and afraid to engagethem.
Laurie Krieg (20:45):
I mean, I love the example of Jesus, like he hung
out with the sinners and the taxcollectors so much that they
called him a drunkard and asinner himself and he was
literally the son of God.
Now how could Jesus do that?
So astounding to me that Jesusis the son of God and he spent
(21:11):
so much time praying.
He rooted his identityabsolutely in the Father so that
when he engaged with us shabbysinners all of us, including the
quote least of these Yep, itdidn't, he didn't, it wasn't
(21:36):
grossed out, he washed our feet,he wasn't scared, he leaned in.
And so I would say we need toroot ourselves so deeply in the
love and theology of God's loveand truth and grace that it
makes us run to people who wejust deem other, just like Jesus
(22:01):
.
Jessica LM Jenkins (22:02):
Yes, All throughout scripture.
That's the example we have ofboth Jesus and God the Father.
They can't help themselves.
But to come to the weak and thehurting and the sinful, they
are drawn to that by their verynature, and then we get to
reflect that back to the brokenpeople around us.
Laurie Krieg (22:20):
Yeah, now we're people who are engaging in sin.
Should we have those people bepeople who are speaking deeply
into our lives and are our best,best, best, best friends?
(22:41):
I think we need, I think we canbe friends with people, but
should they be our absolute best, best, best, best friends if
they are living in ongoingunrepentant sin of any variety?
If they are living in ongoingunrepentant sin of any variety,
(23:04):
any variety greed, drunkenness,porn, addiction, pride?
Should people be our closestallies who are helping to form
us and conform us and hold usaccountable into walking into
the image of Christ?
I would say no Right image ofChrist.
I would say no Right.
But I do think we need to havepeers alongside us who, part of
the way that they conform us andhelp us to iron, sharpen, iron,
(23:25):
conform into the image ofChrist, is people who help
encourage us to love ourneighbors like Jesus did.
Amen, amen, like Jesus did.
Jessica LM Jenkins (23:35):
Amen, amen.
So, moving on with the sametopic, some parents wonder do we
need to avoid books and shows,movies that have LGBTQ themes
and characters with our children?
Should we screen everything andjust keep it away from our kids
?
Do we just dive headfirst andjust let it all like?
(23:57):
What is your wisdom on thattopic?
Laurie Krieg (24:00):
right, I don't like extremism on any account.
Um, just in general.
But first of all, let's just goahead.
Step one hypocrisy check yepwhat do you do when there's a
heterosexual fade to black scene?
Are you like shrug?
And then there's an lgbtqcharacter that comes on the
(24:20):
screen who's just, there's noromance about it, just lgbtq
character.
And you go, yeah, freaking out.
Let's just go ahead and say,all right, that's uh unequal.
We say the ground is level atthe foot of the cross, that's
not exactly equal.
So let's just go ahead andthink about that.
But I think with that sort ofokay, sin is sin lens over our
(24:43):
eyes, let's go ahead and thenlet's approach uh, all media
with that sort of lens and let'ssay, if it's like an overt sin
of any variety greed,drunkenness, lgbtq romance,
gender transitioning,heterosexual, outside of
marriage romance there's goingto be some things that you as a
(25:05):
family are going to have todetermine as, like, these are
just red flags, these are just ano, automatic no, and then
there's going to be like amiddling level of like, oh, this
is like okay, you know, this isnot maybe overt, but I want to
have a conversation.
And if it's an, automatic note Iwant you to turn it off and I
want you to share with your kidsagain, holding truth and grace,
(25:26):
what is the positive vision andhow are we going to love people
?
Because you know what the truthis you don't know who's in that
room when we turn off the TVand we're scoffing and angry.
You do not know who is in thatroom when we turn off the tv and
we're scoffing and angry.
You do not know who is in thatroom, including your kids, or
your kids, friends who they love, who are hearing.
My mom is scoffing at thatlgbtq character.
(25:47):
She has no idea what's going onwith me.
Right, right why would?
I ever share this deep strugglewith my mom because she's
scoffing at that person.
She's gonna scoff at me person.
She's going to scoff at me.
Why would they not think that?
Right?
No, they have no context.
That's the only context withwhich you talk about LGBTQ
(26:08):
things is it's a scoffing air.
So have a conversation.
Love, this is God's positivevision.
There's this grief you can holdas you talk about it.
And, honey, that just does not,that they just don't believe
about marriage like that that wedo, and I'm so sad about that.
But they don't know Jesus, soit makes sense that they're not
following it, so we're just notgoing to watch that.
Then there's this middle levelthat's like not overt teaching
and that might be a pausing theTV.
(26:30):
Hey, they're talking about this, we don't need to like turn
that off, you know what I'msaying, like or oh, that person,
that girl.
She has a daughter outside ofmarriage.
(26:52):
It's just like alluded to.
But you know, you maybe don'tneed to make it a big deal.
Jessica LM Jenkins (26:57):
That makes a lot of sense.
I really appreciate that.
So, as you are a parent andparenting your kids, shepherding
your kids through all thesesorts of issues, what does your
ideal sex education look likefor your kids and others?
Laurie Krieg (27:15):
So experts say we should start talking with our
kids about sex between ages sixand nine.
That's banana town, that's veryyoung in my opinion, but I've
done it.
I usually wait until ages eightand nine.
Now when I talk with my kidsabout sex, I I am like alluding
(27:35):
to it for a few conversationsbeforehand, kind of more about
puberty, because, let's behonest, that's actually the five
alarm fire that is inevitablefor our kids at age 13.
But so we really need toprepare.
So, like with our girls, youknow they're going to see
tampons in the bathroom and I'mgonna say, oh, yeah, well, you
know what.
Girls have something called aperiod.
(27:56):
I may say a couple's, onesentence when they're three or
four years old Yep, just likeeven saying the word period.
And maybe at age five or six, Istart saying like, yep, it's
for mommies, every month whenthey they have a period, when
they bleed, and that's whenthat's preparing their bodies to
have a baby someday.
So it's just this illusion.
Jessica LM Jenkins (28:15):
And that first conversation.
Laurie Krieg (28:17):
When I talk about sex, it's going to be 85% about
puberty, 15% about God's designfor sex, and it's going to be
very much in the context of whatis marriage?
What's your life about?
What's marriage, the purpose ofmarriage, and then sex is a
(28:38):
showing of this.
Significant other, thiscovenant spouse this is how much
God wants to and will be onewith you, but it's in the
context of covenant.
So that is my ideal sex ed is.
Jessica LM Jenkins (28:53):
It's very sex ed is.
It's very puberty focused.
Yes, yes.
And how do you manage a pubertyfocus when you're dealing with
children that are in spaces likea public school or somewhere
where they're going to behearing things from other kids?
How do you work to get ahead?
I know you just brought yourkids out of public school, but
(29:15):
not everybody is able or willingto do that.
How do you get ahead of?
You know, the child sittingnext to them, showing, turning
the computer, showing thempornographic images or
discussing perhaps more sexuallyexplicit things than we think
children their age should bediscussing, but we have no
control over classmates.
(29:36):
How do we, as parents, getahead of that to help protect
and prepare our children andguard their hearts?
Laurie Krieg (29:43):
So I mean, there's absolutely no way to predict
exactly what our kids are goingto hear where and when.
And you can be in public school, private school.
Do you know that?
Actually a private school 40%of kids see porn in school at
private school, wow, 20% atpublic school.
So I believe, and not say thatone is better than the other.
(30:06):
This is what is, uh, what's Godcalling your family to right?
That's fascinating, it reallyis Uh.
So saying that, uh, there'ssomething called the anchoring
bias, which really means wherewhatever your kids hear first,
or whatever humans hear first,that tends to be the gold
standard to which we uh compareeverything else.
(30:30):
So our kids um need to.
This is why a reason that weshould be talking with our kids
about sex at younger ages, sothat we are the gold standard
and they're not hearing aboutaberration of sex before they're
hearing the beauty of sex andthe reason it's there.
So, with my kids when they werein public school and even in
(30:55):
private school now, I say thingslike hey, here's god's design.
So there's, there's differentareas, here's god's good design.
Now here's where how I wouldprepare for the unpreparable.
Right, you're gonna heardifferent things at school.
Your teachers are gonna talkabout things about marriage,
about sexuality.
If they ever say something thatyou're like I don't know if
(31:16):
that's true, would you just comehome and just let's just talk,
yeah, and if they do talk aboutit with you, don't freak out,
kids.
Every human is made with thesemirror neurons and they are
trying to pick up from us asparents how they should feel
(31:37):
about what they're saying.
So if you're freaked out, I'mjust gonna tell you stop it.
Yeah, that's not good therapyadvice, but you gotta take it to
the lord in grief and in prayerbefore your kid comes to you.
God, I hate this broken world.
I hate broken sexuality.
I'm sorry.
All of our sexual stories, howour husband did things our
(31:58):
parents you did.
Yeah, we can't believe it abusewe've endured.
So do that beforehand, so thatwhen your kid comes to you thank
you so much for sharing that.
And if you don't know how torespond, your kid just said hey,
my, my, uh, my best friendidentifies as a cat and has sex
with snakes.
I don't know, I've neveractually heard that.
(32:20):
But, wow, thank you so much forsharing that.
How do you feel about that?
Those are two questions Now.
They might not need helpnavigating it, but you might
want to help.
So then you just go and do alittle bit of research after
that.
How should I respond to this?
But just really, thank you somuch for sharing that.
How do you?
How do we prepare them for porn?
(32:41):
Oh, how I have said it to mykids Guys, do you know that on
the internet I've said thissince my kids were five people
take pictures of private partsand they put them online.
I don't, I love that, thatpicture book, good picture, bad
(33:01):
picture and I don't know if theyuse this explicit language, but
I do say explicit eyeball toeyeball to my kids People take
pictures of private parts ofpenises.
You know, if you want to uselanguage of vaginas and they put
on like what, if you guys eversee that, you will not get in
trouble, you just close thescreen to me.
(33:21):
So that's three scenarios thatI'm talking about there.
Jessica LM Jenkins (33:24):
But yeah, no , that's fantastic and I
absolutely love your don't freakout advice, because I know for
some parents, and especiallyparents who have sexual trauma
themselves, dealing in thatwhole realm can be very
activating or even triggeringinternally.
(33:45):
So preparing themselves my dad,who's a pastor, used to say you
are unshockable.
Preparing to just beunshockable by whatever they
bring, so that you can engagethem.
Because and I'm sure you wouldagree with this our goal as
parent, one of our many goals asparents, is to create a safe
(34:07):
space for our children, to bringwhatever it is to us their
same-sex attraction, the factthat their best friend in school
just showed them porn, theircrush on an opposite gender
child.
We want them to come talk to us.
What does this word mean?
I'm going to ask you, mom,before I Google it.
Let's like I will sit down ifwe need to and I'll Google it
(34:40):
with you, but we're gonna, we'regoing to be wise and mommy and
daddy know all about sex.
You can always come talk to us.
Laurie Krieg (34:44):
Great yeah, keeping that door open.
I'm like I am Google.
I am Google, yes.
Jessica LM Jenkins (34:51):
Yes, my kids are still not great at spelling
so I'm not overly worried aboutGoogle, but they are getting
there, so it's like oh yeah.
We got to put up all thoseblockers.
Laurie Krieg (35:01):
I will say too I'm sure many people know this, but
in case you don't, a kid'sfirst experience with
pornography is trauma.
Jessica LM Jenkins (35:10):
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Krieg (35:11):
A child cannot prepare their brains for what
they are going to see and then,if they like, get curious and
look back like it can become sin.
You know they keep going back.
They feel this emptiness inside, they feel this curiosity
inside and it's crack it liketakes over their brain as far as
(35:34):
like neurologically.
But I just want to say that forany parent listening, you're
like it's trauma, like theycan't.
There's no way for their brainsto prepare and so to help them
to think of it that way.
Oh, how do you feel?
I'm so sorry.
Jessica LM Jenkins (35:48):
It was so hard to see that, how are you
doing?
Let's just pray over your mindand heart and body so, and then
let's make it so.
We can't see that again.
(36:10):
I want to put that out there.
Be caring and non-anxious thatyou can press into their
experience of whatever they'reexperiencing without your own
anxiety and fear overshadowing,to the point where they feel
like they can't bring theirconcerns to you.
Laurie Krieg (36:31):
That's great.
Jessica LM Jenkins (36:33):
Wonderful.
Well, I have really appreciatedthis conversation.
Hopefully it will be so helpful.
Do you have any?
On this whole topic?
We've been discussing anyresources you would like to
recommend.
You gave me a list that I willput in the show notes, but any
particular resources you want tomention while we are discussing
that you think would beparticularly helpful that you
(36:56):
think would be particularlyhelpful.
Laurie Krieg (36:58):
Well, if you're interested in our film project
that's going to be coming outfall of 25, you can go to
centerforfaithcom.
We'll have more information astrailers come up, et cetera, et
cetera.
But keep your eyes peeled there.
For a discipleship film projectfor parents of kids age zero to
12.
We do already have one createdfor teens, so, parents of
teenagers, called christiansexuality, you can go to
(37:19):
christiansexualitycom, uh, andthat's where you can find
information for parents ofteenagers.
But the one for kids 0 to 12 iscoming out fall of 25.
There is a great book by juliasadusky called start talking to
your kids about it's.
In the subtitle it says apractical guide for Catholics.
(37:41):
So if you're not Catholic youmight be like wait, this isn't
quite for me.
It's so good, like truly somany things, for that
Protestants will appreciate aswell.
And Julia is so wise and shehandles these topics really
beautifully.
Love that.
Jessica LM Jenkins (37:55):
Love that Well.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I really appreciate theconversation and your openness
about your journey.
I will get all of these thingsin the show notes for anybody
who is interested in Lori'sbooks and her projects and the
(38:16):
resources she recommends on thistopics.
Thank you so much, lori, forbeing with us and I hope you
have a great day.
Laurie Krieg (38:23):
Thank you, you guys too.
Hello there.
I am so thankful for everyonewho is listening in.
Today we are taking a breakfrom our Women in Context series
to have a conversation with thedelightful and wise Lori Craig.
Lori is a coach, speaker,author and podcast host whose
mission is to equip Jesusfollowers with gospel-centered
(00:21):
approach to sexuality.
She lives in Michigan with herhusband, Matt, and their three
kids.
Welcome, Lori, I am so excitedto have you here.
I'm so glad to be with you, so Iknow you love teaching about
how the gospel interplays withmarriage, sexuality and all
aspects of life.
Can you tell us how God drewyou into this particular
(00:42):
ministry?
Laurie Krieg (00:50):
God drew you into this particular ministry.
Yeah, the short story of thelong story is in college.
My sexuality and my faithreally collided.
I met another woman who I wasdrawn to romantically and I had
felt glimmers of attractiongrowing up, but it was in
college, even though I was goingto Christian college and I love
Jesus, and I didn't even fit myown stereotypes of what a
(01:14):
homosexual person I say with airquotes because that was kind of
the language in the early 2000sbut a gay person might look
like or act like, and so I wasreally surprised that this draw
was so intense.
I ended up in a secret same-sexrelationship with her and really
my faith and my sexualitycollided, and the help for me
(01:38):
was not bashing my own head withpassages about the prohibitions
against marriage.
It was someone discipling meand really coming alongside and
helping me understand the deeperdesires underneath the wants or
the attractions that I felt.
It was really the desirebeneath the desire was to be
(02:02):
seen and known and loved, and myparticular version of sexual
brokenness that God has allowedin me because of the fall tells
me that I can get those needs tobe seen and known and loved in
another woman.
Now the antidote is not to findmy completion in a man, it's,
(02:22):
of course, to find it in Christ,and so someone helped me to
really not just know God with mymind, but to experience the
love of God in the deepestplaces of my pain and shame, and
that love has power to help usto die to ourself every day, and
(02:42):
so that was really the rescuefor me.
Jessica LM Jenkins (02:45):
I love that and I remember reading a lot of
that story in your book onmarriage Impossible Marriage
which we'll talk about here in amoment.
But besides that book, whatother projects are you working
on right now?
Laurie Krieg (02:57):
I know you have a podcast but what else do you
have going on?
Yes, I'm working on two bigprojects right now.
One is I just got hired on tobe a part of the Center for
Faith, sexuality and Gender,where I served as a board member
.
Now I am the Director of ParentPrograms and Development, so
I'm helping to expand theCenter's reach to really equip
parents, to help equip theirkids in areas of sexuality and
(03:22):
gender with peaceful, gospelshaped confidence.
So how can we help parentsequip their kids?
So we're trying to teachparents to teach their kids, and
so the two projects I'm workingon one is a film project, a
discipleship curriculum forparents, and another one is a
book with inner varsity on thesame topics.
Jessica LM Jenkins (03:42):
I love that.
I know a lot of the questions.
I asked my followers onInstagram to send in questions
for you and a lot of thequestions I got related to
parenting and these things.
So we'll get into those in afew minutes.
One thing I always ask all ofmy podcast guests and I want to
ask you is who is your favoritewoman of the Bible and why?
Laurie Krieg (04:05):
Who is your favorite woman of the Bible and
why?
Oh, I love the woman caught inadultery.
I so felt like her when I wasreally in my deepest wrestling
with my faith and sexuality isis.
I almost wanted people to throwstones at me because it that's
what I felt like I deserved.
Yeah, he's like.
(04:26):
Sometimes when you're living inshame, the visceral pain feels
like that's going to like uh,the the desire for punishment
for sin, like it's it'sinstinctive within us yes.
And yet Jesus stepped in and hetook her punishment.
He takes mine and it's stillpowerful.
Jessica LM Jenkins (04:49):
I love that.
That is incredibly beautifulbecause I know myself that
visceral desire for punishmentwhen I'm in shame.
I just love how you put thatinto words and related it to the
woman caught in adultery, whichis an amazing passage.
So I've read your bookImpossible Marriage and I got a
(05:12):
couple notes that just wanted tothank you for writing the book.
One of the people is in aneurodivergent marriage, which
is different than what youdescribed, but there's so few
marriage books that we've beenable to discover that have that
go outside the norm, that dealwith marriages highly impacted
by trauma, by same-sexattraction, by neurodivergence,
(05:33):
by disability.
There's so few books that dealwith those sorts of marriages
that yours can.
Really, with the unique focuses, it has really fit for a lot of
those couples.
So first I just want to thankyou for writing the book and say
that for myself and some of mylisteners it's been incredibly
(05:56):
impactful.
But for those who aren'tfamiliar with your book, which
is titled An Impossible Marriage, can you share some of what led
you to write that book and whatthe book is about?
Laurie Krieg (06:08):
I mean I can say a big reason I wrote the book is
exactly what your listeners saidis I was really sick of being a
footnote in like normalmarriage books.
They're like oh well, if you'vehad trauma, see a counselor.
If you have same-sex attraction, uh, I don't think they exist
(06:29):
or like neurodiversity probablyis not, not even in anyone's
brain.
So I I get that it's not thenorm, but I don't think we
should always then be relegatedto a footnote, and I really
wanted to take our unique, whatI call an impossible marriage
and really kind of do what thecross did.
(06:51):
If I may be so bold and sayactually every marriage is
impossible, and where the crosswas a place of shame and where
my marriage people could be likeoh, you have a same sex
attraction, your husband wasaddicted to porn, you should
feel shame about that, and justlike how the cross is something,
a place of shame that God usedfor our glory.
(07:14):
God can use these impossiblesituations of suffering for our
good, in God's glory and toreally show the world too, every
marriage is impossible.
Yeah, because it's supposed toshow when you love this other
person.
You show the world a picture ofhow Jesus did the impossible
(07:36):
and he came to earth, died adeath that you deserve and in
order to be one with you.
Our marriages display that aglimmer of that union.
So I wanted to pull our storyof my uh default attractions
toward other women, even thoughI am married to a man.
(07:56):
Uh, it's, our hearts connect.
If people are like, how doesthat work?
Isn't attraction like thebiggest part of marriage?
And if you're honest and you'vebeen married more than five
minutes, usually attraction isnot the core of your marriage.
There's other layers ofintimacy that can grow and lead
to physical intimacy.
But that's how our marriageworks.
(08:18):
We just kind of walked into itwith uh eyes wider open than
perhaps some do in areas ofattraction.
Jessica LM Jenkins (08:26):
Yeah, On the topic of attraction, one of the
questions I got was are manypeople in mixed orientation
marriages actually just bisexual, or are they actually married
to someone they are not sexuallyattracted to?
Laurie Krieg (08:49):
sexually attracted to.
So I do not think that LGBTQpeople are ontologically a
different form of human.
Okay, I don't think we.
I don't think I'm a different.
I think there's humans andthere's God's design for human
sexuality and then that's it.
It's like here's what you'resupposed to do with it.
So I actually I understand thehow labels like bisexuality et
(09:12):
cetera can help put language toour internal experience.
So I get that.
But I really think I mean.
Studies show if you look at LisaDiamond's work human sexuality
is very fluid, especially forwomen, yes, and even men.
So I I struggle with some ofthose boxes of um that that put
(09:37):
labels on people.
So I I'm like just gonnadefault.
I'm just gonna say the question.
I don't call myself bisexual, Icall myself broken, broken.
My sexuality is broken and if Istruggle with lust, it's toward
women.
But I love Matt and I'mcommitted to him.
And when we grow in a in heartattraction, uh, in in union,
(09:59):
that leads to a desire forphysical union.
So not sure I answered thequestion, but that's how I see
it.
Jessica LM Jenkins (10:06):
That's wonderful, and that relates to
the next question I have, whichsomebody was wondering why do
people use the term gayChristian?
Why don't they just confesstheir struggle but not frame it
as a core part of their identity?
Why abstain?
Why not just abstain fromsame-sex desires to enjoy
(10:27):
pursuing straight marriage?
Laurie Krieg (10:29):
That was a lot, but it was a lot Okay, so I'll
just start with why do peoplecall themselves gay Christian
core identity?
I would just say we don'tactually know how people who
identify as gay Christian seethemselves and if it is a part
of their core identity.
99.9% of the people whoidentify as gay Christians who I
know they would not say it's apart of their core identity.
(10:52):
They would say Jesus is my coreidentity and this is a
descriptor that helps todescribe my internal experience
and it's an easy way for me totell people how I view the world
.
So that's usually how.
And then to the last point,like why don't they just pursue
(11:12):
a straight marriage?
That gets into the beauty ofthis conversation in the sense
that that's not the purpose ofour life.
The purpose of our life is notto get married and make
Christian babies and tithe anddie.
Jessica LM Jenkins (11:34):
Yes, preach.
Laurie Krieg (11:36):
The church's missional vocation is to advance
the kingdom of God untileveryone everywhere is living in
joyful submission to King Jesus.
Marriage and singleness areequally valuable ways that we
advance God's kingdom.
So I would say why do they haveto pursue a straight marriage?
Why can't they say this is myexperience, if they want to talk
(12:00):
about that or not, and thenthey advance god's kingdom.
Now we could ask a questionabout is it wisest to identify
as a gay christian?
You could ask that question,but that's I'm not going to be
judge and jury about that.
I think.
I think I can understand whypeople would choose to call
themselves that and why theywouldn't.
Jessica LM Jenkins (12:20):
Absolutely.
And so, as someone whoexperiences same-sex attraction
and who is a mom, what would yousay your biggest piece of
advice if you were to just boilit down simply for parents
parenting their children?
Today, in 2025, with the LGBTQconcerns floating in the world,
(12:42):
what's your one digested pieceof parenting advice?
Laurie Krieg (12:49):
Honestly, it trickles on the heels of what I
just said.
I think a reason we'repanicking is because we have
preached a gospel of the purposeof your life is to find an
opposite sex.
Christian spouse make christianbabies, tithe and die.
Yeah, I am all about babies,but because the greater desire
(13:17):
for god is for us to be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and
subdue it to advance his kingdom, which includes kids, but it
also includes transforming kidsinto disciples of God, and so I
think our biggest thing is totake a deep breath and remember
(13:38):
this is all about the kingdom ofGod, and no matter how our kids
experience their version ofsexual brokenness, it does not
change God's mission.
I pray for a day where kids wakeup and if they're like, oh man,
I'm attracted to the same sex,and they shrug.
(14:00):
If they were like oh man, I'mattracted to the same sex, and
they shrug, I love that.
They say, oh well, that's myversion of sexual brokenness.
I'm called to surrender to theLordship of Christ.
Does God, is God going to drawme towards someone of the
opposite sex and that's how Isteward my sexuality?
Or is he calling me to celibatesingleness and I give up sex
and heirs, biological heirs forthe glory of God.
(14:21):
Sex and heirs biological heirsfor the glory of God.
But it does not change mypurpose or the vision of God for
the world or for me.
It's still dope, yeah, sothat's.
That's.
My biggest thing is I thinkthat we can bless this
conversation because it's makingChristians wake up and say up
and say what is the purpose ofChristians' lives.
Jessica LM Jenkins (14:42):
Mm-hmm, yeah , and I love that singular focus
of this is what God has createdus to do.
Having a marriage and familycan be one expression of that,
but especially recording thisjust on the heels of Valentine's
Day, which was last week and Isaw all throughout social media
(15:03):
a real emphasis, especially insome Christian circles, on
marriage even setting a tablefor your child's future spouse
at the table yeah, this kind ofidolatry of marriage and some of
those things.
I love how you're reframingthat.
That.
That is just one expression ofhow we can fully glorify God and
(15:26):
that can't be our primary focus.
Laurie Krieg (15:30):
No, it's idolatry.
Marriage is so good becausewhen two different people die to
self to be one in a covenant,it shows a picture how Jesus is
so different from us, but hedied to be one with us.
He covenanted to us.
Marriage is great, but it'sbecause it's a part of the
(15:54):
greater purpose of our lives,which is to advance the kingdom
of God until everyone everywhereis living in joyful submission
to King Jesus.
Jessica LM Jenkins (16:01):
Amen, amen.
So to take some of thesethoughts and make them more
practical for the parents in thenitty-gritty day-to-day with
their kids interacting withpeople in their communities how
do we prepare our kids forinteractions with LGBTQ people
classmates, friends they have atschool, especially if our child
(16:25):
is feeling weird or nervousabout engaging people like that?
Laurie Krieg (16:32):
We need to do what-if scenarios in our home.
Okay, we need to be talkinghand-in-hand.
What is the truth and why isGod's design for marriage?
This and I really, when wespeak truth, I'm not saying you
say the theology of no, I wantparents to understand the
theology of yes.
Why is it male-female marriage?
(16:54):
Well, because same-sex marriageis bad.
It's Adam and Eve, not Adam andSteve.
No, it's two different things.
Come together to show the worldhow God is so different from us
, but he wants union with us.
What's the yes, then?
At the same time, we need tosay how do we interact with
people?
So I was just talking aboutthis in a meeting, right before
talking with you is.
I was sharing a story when ourdaughters were seven and eight
(17:16):
years old and they were going topublic school and my daughter
was going to bring a neck pillowfor pajama day that had a
picture of Jojo Siwa on it and Iwas like, oh, my kids don't
know that she's gay and I wonderhow these other kids are going
to make fun of her or what.
So I did it.
Hey guys, I just want you toknow did you know that Jojo Siwa
(17:38):
is actually dating a girl?
And my girls were six and eightat the time and they're like,
what it's like?
Yeah, and I was like, why isthat not God's best?
Why does he not want us to datesomeone of the same sex?
And I had them say it back tome and they say the word they
automatically, they knowdifferent and so they spit that
back at me.
Different Marriage has to bedifferent because God is so
(17:59):
different from us.
And when moms and dads loveeach other, they show me a
picture of how God loves me.
My kids I've been hearing thatsince they were three years old.
Different is the key word.
So I'm saying truth, I'm sayingit from a theology of yes, lens,
a positive gospel vision.
Now let's talk about the praxis, let's talk about how we live
(18:21):
that out.
So I said so what if someone inyour class is dating someone or
likes like, like, likes, or Isay the word hard eyes that's
their language, like they, hardeyes another girl?
How do we treat them?
So I just did the truth.
Now we're going to do the love,yes, which those are together,
but let's just talk about thegrace piece.
So they're going to they would.
(18:42):
I mean honestly, kids might saythings like oh, we should hate
them or we should tell them it'swrong, like kids are just going
to say whatever.
And this is where I can correcton this end.
Just like I would correct onthe truth end, let's correct on
the grace end.
You know, I love you guys somuch, but you know what?
Actually, we are going toalways love our friends because
(19:04):
you know what they, thesefriends actually don't even know
Jesus.
And you know, when we don'tknow Jesus, why would we follow
Jesus's way?
And so this is God's way.
Is this theology of thismarriage?
This is like this, but theworld doesn't know that.
So what we're going to do iswe're going to love our friends,
even if they're not choosingGod's way, because they need to
know God before they chooseGod's way.
So that's one way is to dosomething like we're going to
(19:27):
love people.
Now there's more conversationswe can have, but I'll just pause
there because that's a lot.
Jessica LM Jenkins (19:33):
No, but that's such.
I love the.
I really appreciate how youstart with the truth and you
bring it back to that and thenyou get to the practical.
How do we do this, day in, dayout?
Who they are experiencing forlack of a better term internal
fear, stress, nervousness.
(19:54):
Their kids are also feelingthat, just about being in the
same space as those who identifywith the LGBTQ team.
(20:15):
So how would you, what wordswould you have for those who are
dealing with?
They get that.
We need to love, we need to bekind, but they're dealing with
internal fear, almost like ifI'm around them, is it going to
rub off?
Or how do I even stay in thesame physical space with these
people who are so different fromme and have such different
(20:37):
values than me?
I know I need to love them, butI'm actually in some ways,
nervous and afraid to engagethem.
Laurie Krieg (20:45):
I mean, I love the example of Jesus, like he hung
out with the sinners and the taxcollectors so much that they
called him a drunkard and asinner himself and he was
literally the son of God.
Now how could Jesus do that?
So astounding to me that Jesusis the son of God and he spent
(21:11):
so much time praying.
He rooted his identityabsolutely in the Father so that
when he engaged with us shabbysinners all of us, including the
quote least of these Yep, itdidn't, he didn't, it wasn't
(21:36):
grossed out, he washed our feet,he wasn't scared, he leaned in.
And so I would say we need toroot ourselves so deeply in the
love and theology of God's loveand truth and grace that it
makes us run to people who wejust deem other, just like Jesus
(22:01):
.
Jessica LM Jenkins (22:02):
Yes, All throughout scripture.
That's the example we have ofboth Jesus and God the Father.
They can't help themselves.
But to come to the weak and thehurting and the sinful, they
are drawn to that by their verynature, and then we get to
reflect that back to the brokenpeople around us.
Laurie Krieg (22:20):
Yeah, now we're people who are engaging in sin.
Should we have those people bepeople who are speaking deeply
into our lives and are our best,best, best, best friends?
(22:41):
I think we need, I think we canbe friends with people, but
should they be our absolute best, best, best, best friends if
they are living in ongoingunrepentant sin of any variety?
If they are living in ongoingunrepentant sin of any variety,
(23:04):
any variety greed, drunkenness,porn, addiction, pride?
Should people be our closestallies who are helping to form
us and conform us and hold usaccountable into walking into
the image of Christ?
I would say no Right image ofChrist.
I would say no Right.
But I do think we need to havepeers alongside us who, part of
the way that they conform us andhelp us to iron, sharpen, iron,
(23:25):
conform into the image ofChrist, is people who help
encourage us to love ourneighbors like Jesus did.
Amen, amen, like Jesus did.
Jessica LM Jenkins (23:35):
Amen, amen.
So, moving on with the sametopic, some parents wonder do we
need to avoid books and shows,movies that have LGBTQ themes
and characters with our children?
Should we screen everything andjust keep it away from our kids
?
Do we just dive headfirst andjust let it all like?
(23:57):
What is your wisdom on thattopic?
Laurie Krieg (24:00):
right, I don't like extremism on any account.
Um, just in general.
But first of all, let's just goahead.
Step one hypocrisy check yepwhat do you do when there's a
heterosexual fade to black scene?
Are you like shrug?
And then there's an lgbtqcharacter that comes on the
(24:20):
screen who's just, there's noromance about it, just lgbtq
character.
And you go, yeah, freaking out.
Let's just go ahead and say,all right, that's uh unequal.
We say the ground is level atthe foot of the cross, that's
not exactly equal.
So let's just go ahead andthink about that.
But I think with that sort ofokay, sin is sin lens over our
(24:43):
eyes, let's go ahead and thenlet's approach uh, all media
with that sort of lens and let'ssay, if it's like an overt sin
of any variety greed,drunkenness, lgbtq romance,
gender transitioning,heterosexual, outside of
marriage romance there's goingto be some things that you as a
(25:05):
family are going to have todetermine as, like, these are
just red flags, these are just ano, automatic no, and then
there's going to be like amiddling level of like, oh, this
is like okay, you know, this isnot maybe overt, but I want to
have a conversation.
And if it's an, automatic note Iwant you to turn it off and I
want you to share with your kidsagain, holding truth and grace,
(25:26):
what is the positive vision andhow are we going to love people
?
Because you know what the truthis you don't know who's in that
room when we turn off the TVand we're scoffing and angry.
You do not know who is in thatroom when we turn off the tv and
we're scoffing and angry.
You do not know who is in thatroom, including your kids, or
your kids, friends who they love, who are hearing.
My mom is scoffing at thatlgbtq character.
(25:47):
She has no idea what's going onwith me.
Right, right why would?
I ever share this deep strugglewith my mom because she's
scoffing at that person.
She's gonna scoff at me person.
She's going to scoff at me.
Why would they not think that?
Right?
No, they have no context.
That's the only context withwhich you talk about LGBTQ
(26:08):
things is it's a scoffing air.
So have a conversation.
Love, this is God's positivevision.
There's this grief you can holdas you talk about it.
And, honey, that just does not,that they just don't believe
about marriage like that that wedo, and I'm so sad about that.
But they don't know Jesus, soit makes sense that they're not
following it, so we're just notgoing to watch that.
Then there's this middle levelthat's like not overt teaching
and that might be a pausing theTV.
(26:30):
Hey, they're talking about this, we don't need to like turn
that off, you know what I'msaying, like or oh, that person,
that girl.
She has a daughter outside ofmarriage.
(26:52):
It's just like alluded to.
But you know, you maybe don'tneed to make it a big deal.
Jessica LM Jenkins (26:57):
That makes a lot of sense.
I really appreciate that.
So, as you are a parent andparenting your kids, shepherding
your kids through all thesesorts of issues, what does your
ideal sex education look likefor your kids and others?
Laurie Krieg (27:15):
So experts say we should start talking with our
kids about sex between ages sixand nine.
That's banana town, that's veryyoung in my opinion, but I've
done it.
I usually wait until ages eightand nine.
Now when I talk with my kidsabout sex, I I am like alluding
(27:35):
to it for a few conversationsbeforehand, kind of more about
puberty, because, let's behonest, that's actually the five
alarm fire that is inevitablefor our kids at age 13.
But so we really need toprepare.
So, like with our girls, youknow they're going to see
tampons in the bathroom and I'mgonna say, oh, yeah, well, you
know what.
Girls have something called aperiod.
(27:56):
I may say a couple's, onesentence when they're three or
four years old Yep, just likeeven saying the word period.
And maybe at age five or six, Istart saying like, yep, it's
for mommies, every month whenthey they have a period, when
they bleed, and that's whenthat's preparing their bodies to
have a baby someday.
So it's just this illusion.
Jessica LM Jenkins (28:15):
And that first conversation.
Laurie Krieg (28:17):
When I talk about sex, it's going to be 85% about
puberty, 15% about God's designfor sex, and it's going to be
very much in the context of whatis marriage?
What's your life about?
What's marriage, the purpose ofmarriage, and then sex is a
(28:38):
showing of this.
Significant other, thiscovenant spouse this is how much
God wants to and will be onewith you, but it's in the
context of covenant.
So that is my ideal sex ed is.
Jessica LM Jenkins (28:53):
It's very sex ed is.
It's very puberty focused.
Yes, yes.
And how do you manage a pubertyfocus when you're dealing with
children that are in spaces likea public school or somewhere
where they're going to behearing things from other kids?
How do you work to get ahead?
I know you just brought yourkids out of public school, but
(29:15):
not everybody is able or willingto do that.
How do you get ahead of?
You know, the child sittingnext to them, showing, turning
the computer, showing thempornographic images or
discussing perhaps more sexuallyexplicit things than we think
children their age should bediscussing, but we have no
control over classmates.
(29:36):
How do we, as parents, getahead of that to help protect
and prepare our children andguard their hearts?
Laurie Krieg (29:43):
So I mean, there's absolutely no way to predict
exactly what our kids are goingto hear where and when.
And you can be in public school, private school.
Do you know that?
Actually a private school 40%of kids see porn in school at
private school, wow, 20% atpublic school.
So I believe, and not say thatone is better than the other.
(30:06):
This is what is, uh, what's Godcalling your family to right?
That's fascinating, it reallyis Uh.
So saying that, uh, there'ssomething called the anchoring
bias, which really means wherewhatever your kids hear first,
or whatever humans hear first,that tends to be the gold
standard to which we uh compareeverything else.
(30:30):
So our kids um need to.
This is why a reason that weshould be talking with our kids
about sex at younger ages, sothat we are the gold standard
and they're not hearing aboutaberration of sex before they're
hearing the beauty of sex andthe reason it's there.
So, with my kids when they werein public school and even in
(30:55):
private school now, I say thingslike hey, here's god's design.
So there's, there's differentareas, here's god's good design.
Now here's where how I wouldprepare for the unpreparable.
Right, you're gonna heardifferent things at school.
Your teachers are gonna talkabout things about marriage,
about sexuality.
If they ever say something thatyou're like I don't know if
(31:16):
that's true, would you just comehome and just let's just talk,
yeah, and if they do talk aboutit with you, don't freak out,
kids.
Every human is made with thesemirror neurons and they are
trying to pick up from us asparents how they should feel
(31:37):
about what they're saying.
So if you're freaked out, I'mjust gonna tell you stop it.
Yeah, that's not good therapyadvice, but you gotta take it to
the lord in grief and in prayerbefore your kid comes to you.
God, I hate this broken world.
I hate broken sexuality.
I'm sorry.
All of our sexual stories, howour husband did things our
(31:58):
parents you did.
Yeah, we can't believe it abusewe've endured.
So do that beforehand, so thatwhen your kid comes to you thank
you so much for sharing that.
And if you don't know how torespond, your kid just said hey,
my, my, uh, my best friendidentifies as a cat and has sex
with snakes.
I don't know, I've neveractually heard that.
(32:20):
But, wow, thank you so much forsharing that.
How do you feel about that?
Those are two questions Now.
They might not need helpnavigating it, but you might
want to help.
So then you just go and do alittle bit of research after
that.
How should I respond to this?
But just really, thank you somuch for sharing that.
How do you?
How do we prepare them for porn?
(32:41):
Oh, how I have said it to mykids Guys, do you know that on
the internet I've said thissince my kids were five people
take pictures of private partsand they put them online.
I don't, I love that, thatpicture book, good picture, bad
(33:01):
picture and I don't know if theyuse this explicit language, but
I do say explicit eyeball toeyeball to my kids People take
pictures of private parts ofpenises.
You know, if you want to uselanguage of vaginas and they put
on like what, if you guys eversee that, you will not get in
trouble, you just close thescreen to me.
(33:21):
So that's three scenarios thatI'm talking about there.
Jessica LM Jenkins (33:24):
But yeah, no , that's fantastic and I
absolutely love your don't freakout advice, because I know for
some parents, and especiallyparents who have sexual trauma
themselves, dealing in thatwhole realm can be very
activating or even triggeringinternally.
(33:45):
So preparing themselves my dad,who's a pastor, used to say you
are unshockable.
Preparing to just beunshockable by whatever they
bring, so that you can engagethem.
Because and I'm sure you wouldagree with this our goal as
parent, one of our many goals asparents, is to create a safe
(34:07):
space for our children, to bringwhatever it is to us their
same-sex attraction, the factthat their best friend in school
just showed them porn, theircrush on an opposite gender
child.
We want them to come talk to us.
What does this word mean?
I'm going to ask you, mom,before I Google it.
Let's like I will sit down ifwe need to and I'll Google it
(34:40):
with you, but we're gonna, we'regoing to be wise and mommy and
daddy know all about sex.
You can always come talk to us.
Laurie Krieg (34:44):
Great yeah, keeping that door open.
I'm like I am Google.
I am Google, yes.
Jessica LM Jenkins (34:51):
Yes, my kids are still not great at spelling
so I'm not overly worried aboutGoogle, but they are getting
there, so it's like oh yeah.
We got to put up all thoseblockers.
Laurie Krieg (35:01):
I will say too I'm sure many people know this, but
in case you don't, a kid'sfirst experience with
pornography is trauma.
Jessica LM Jenkins (35:10):
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Krieg (35:11):
A child cannot prepare their brains for what
they are going to see and then,if they like, get curious and
look back like it can become sin.
You know they keep going back.
They feel this emptiness inside, they feel this curiosity
inside and it's crack it liketakes over their brain as far as
(35:34):
like neurologically.
But I just want to say that forany parent listening, you're
like it's trauma, like theycan't.
There's no way for their brainsto prepare and so to help them
to think of it that way.
Oh, how do you feel?
I'm so sorry.
Jessica LM Jenkins (35:48):
It was so hard to see that, how are you
doing?
Let's just pray over your mindand heart and body so, and then
let's make it so.
We can't see that again.
(36:10):
I want to put that out there.
Be caring and non-anxious thatyou can press into their
experience of whatever they'reexperiencing without your own
anxiety and fear overshadowing,to the point where they feel
like they can't bring theirconcerns to you.
Laurie Krieg (36:31):
That's great.
Jessica LM Jenkins (36:33):
Wonderful.
Well, I have really appreciatedthis conversation.
Hopefully it will be so helpful.
Do you have any?
On this whole topic?
We've been discussing anyresources you would like to
recommend.
You gave me a list that I willput in the show notes, but any
particular resources you want tomention while we are discussing
that you think would beparticularly helpful that you
(36:56):
think would be particularlyhelpful.
Laurie Krieg (36:58):
Well, if you're interested in our film project
that's going to be coming outfall of 25, you can go to
centerforfaithcom.
We'll have more information astrailers come up, et cetera, et
cetera.
But keep your eyes peeled there.
For a discipleship film projectfor parents of kids age zero to
12.
We do already have one createdfor teens, so, parents of
teenagers, called christiansexuality, you can go to
(37:19):
christiansexualitycom, uh, andthat's where you can find
information for parents ofteenagers.
But the one for kids 0 to 12 iscoming out fall of 25.
There is a great book by juliasadusky called start talking to
your kids about it's.
In the subtitle it says apractical guide for Catholics.
(37:41):
So if you're not Catholic youmight be like wait, this isn't
quite for me.
It's so good, like truly somany things, for that
Protestants will appreciate aswell.
And Julia is so wise and shehandles these topics really
beautifully.
Love that.
Jessica LM Jenkins (37:55):
Love that Well.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I really appreciate theconversation and your openness
about your journey.
I will get all of these thingsin the show notes for anybody
who is interested in Lori'sbooks and her projects and the
(38:16):
resources she recommends on thistopics.
Thank you so much, lori, forbeing with us and I hope you
have a great day.
Laurie Krieg (38:23):
Thank you, you guys too.
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