375 - 5 Years In and Thriving with "Web Designer for Speakers" Kristin Adkins - Web Design Business with Josh Hall

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristin Adkins (00:00):
And if anyone is listening that doesn't have a
launch pack, you have to do that.
I can.
So much of my business has comefrom people getting excited
about their brand new site, mesending them Instagram and
LinkedIn graphics of their newsite, full page looks of it,
plus a picture of a niceheadshot of them with the

(00:21):
website in front scrollingthrough video.
They love that.
And then I have a here's acaption that you could put in on
it, and in that caption is youknow, this was done when I
worked with Kristen at CrashDesign Co.
This is the thing.
These are the things we talkedabout.
So I'm already in there and ifthey want to delete it, they can
delete it, but most peopledon't.

(00:42):
Most people want the easybutton.
They copy, they paste.
I'm tagged.
Welcome to the Web DesignBusiness Podcast with your host,
Josh Hall, Helping you build aweb design business that gives
you freedom and a lifestyle youlove.

Josh Hall (00:59):
Hello friend, good to have you here for this episode
where we are going to have anabsolutely awesome time together
.
Talking to Kristen Adkins, whois a repeat guest on the podcast
.
Kristen was actually on back inepisode 143 just after she had
went full time in her business,but now, nearly five years later

(01:22):
, I wanted to catch up with herbecause Kristen is now a member
of my community Web Designer Pro.
We've got to reconnect and I'mseeing what she's up to now and
she is an absolute shiningexample of how to do things
right.
Her business has growntremendously in the past five
years.
She has really dialed in herniche but I think, most
importantly, she's just lovinglife in her niche.

(01:45):
But I think, most importantly,she's just loving life.
And five years in, that's notthe easiest thing to do when
you're building and growing yourweb design business and
becoming a true business owner.
But she has a lot of value andwisdom to share that we dive
into this one everything fromhow she nailed and really dialed
in her niche as the websitedesigner for speakers, how she's
now hiring and scaling, howshe's building a referral

(02:07):
network, how she's raised herrates over the past couple of
years, how she has continued tostick with the tools that are in
her tool stack and avoidingshiny object syndrome.
And, most importantly, do notmiss this one the value of
website launch packs and howthat's getting her more clients.
We're going to dive into allthat and more website launch
packs and how that's getting hermore clients.
We're going to dive into allthat and more.

(02:27):
Speaking of website launch packs, wouldn't it be cool to see
what she's doing and to see herprocess and to see what she
sends clients?
Well, you can get a glimpse ofthat If you join Web Designer
Pro, because Kristen, thissummer, in 2025, is actually
going to be doing a specialguest training.
More details on that, excuse me, coming soon, but for now, here

(02:47):
is Kristen to dive intoeverything that she's learned
and what she's doing to be fiveyears in and thriving.
You can go to her website,which is crashdesignco, to check
things out, and all of thelinks we mentioned will be at
the show notes for this one atjoshhallco, slash 375.
Let's rock and roll, my friends.
It is a dang pleasure to haveyou back on the show.

(03:13):
So good to catch up and chat.
So much to talk about.
There's not an exact topic thatwe're going to dive into, but I
just wanted to kind ofreconnect with you because you
were on in 21.
You were on four years ago thatwas episode 143 with a different
name, a different last gamethen that's why we both had
trouble finding our episodewe're trying to find it and we

(03:36):
were joking about how josh hallis unfortunately the boyfriend
of I think it's christina hack,the tv show, the house show, so
like we should have worked thisout before we went live.

Oh man, it's just.
Anytime somebody googles myname, it's Christina Hack, the
TV show, the house show.
So, like my we should haveworked this out before we went
live, oh man it's just anytimesomebody Googles my name, it's
mostly that.

Josh Hall (03:50):
So, any, I wanted to catch up because you were at a
place the first time we chatted,where you were, by all
intensive purposes, a webdesigner pro.
I mean, you weren't a memberyet and it wasn't even called
pro back then, but you were in areally like professional
trajectory and then looking, youknow, now, four years later,
fast forward.

(04:10):
One thing I really appreciateabout what I've seen you do is
you've stayed so consistent andyou've just like refined your
craft and you're serving thesame audience, but you're doing
it like even a more polishedlevel.
I looked at your site today andI was like, oh my gosh, I mean,

(04:31):
there's just so much we canlearn from you.
So for all those reasons andmore, I'm really pumped to have
you back on.

Absolutely.
I'm excited to see where thisconversation goes.

Josh Hall (04:40):
I have no idea.
I mean, let's just talk aboutthat, Like, what has made you
stay consistent?
Because a lot of web designers,you know it's really common
we're entrepreneurs at heart.
So after a few years we get theitch to do something different
or switch up our niche.
What has made you just staywithin your niche and stay
consistent?

Yeah, well, the easiest thing is that I love my
clients.
I get to work with really coolpeople and it's so easy to stay
consistent when I'm gettingreferred.
Now, like I just heard theother day it was I was talking
to a business friend of mine andshe goes oh, she's like I have
to tell you I have a friend whowas excited about your website

(05:19):
and she said that she can't waitfor her business to take off
because there's this webdesigner she really wants to
work with and in the Milwaukeearea that works with
professional speakers.
And my friend goes are youtalking about Kristen Adkins?
And I was like yes, and so shetold me about that and I was
like niching down was the bestthing I ever did and I have been
screaming that from therooftops.
So how can I go away from that?

(05:41):
And again, I love my clients.
They are doing really coolthings and it's hard to want to
switch away from people who wantto like change the world.
And they're doing that and Iget to help them and so I just I
adore it, I, I love my nicheand it's really easy to get
really good at something ifyou're doing it over and over
and over again, and so I foundthat to be very helpful when it

(06:02):
comes to growing my business andmy processes and all of that.

Josh Hall (06:06):
We talked a little bit about this.
If I remember right from ourfirst convo, that topic was more
about, like, going full timebecause you got that place in
your business and your journey.
But I am curious, like, whenyou landed on this niche I mean,
this is such a hot topicnowadays and I'm always leery
about people who are trying tofind a niche because I'm like,
make sure you love it and youare the your case.

(06:29):
You know you're 101 for likewhy you should love your niche
and love the people who are inthat type of niche.
What made you choose thethought leader and speaker route
?
Yeah, remind us or remind me ofhow you landed there.

Yeah, and it was about the last time that we had
a conversation.
It was pretty soon or prettyrecently before that that I had
said this is what I was going todo.
Mine was, when I went full-time, I knew I wanted to niche down,
but I wasn't sure what it wasand I hadn't worked with a lot
of clients yet.
But I had two coaches back toback, and then the second coach
was so much easier to work withbecause I was asking the right

(07:07):
questions.
I already knew some of theproblems she was having and the
pain points, and so we got to gomuch deeper into our
conversations right away becauseI'd already worked with someone
very similar to her.
And then, after those two, Iwas like okay, so now I know the
power of niching down, do Iwant to work with coaches?
And I was like I don't actuallyknow any more coaches like that

(07:29):
.
I kind of like that was it.
And I thought about who myprofessional network I knew, and
in my previous career I'dworked with a lot of
professional speakers because Iused to hire them for
conferences and conventions andI saw firsthand that people's
websites got them the job orlost them that.
And so I was like wait a minute, I know exactly which problem I
need to solve.
I was a part of this, and sothat has been a story that I

(07:50):
tell all the time.
Is I, I used to hire you.
I know what meeting plannersare looking for because I used
to be that person.
I'm going to make you a websitethat would make me want to hire
you, and that is kind of beenthe thing that got me through
niching down, and I already knewsome, some speakers that I had
worked with and I reached out tothem and I'm like I don't know

(08:10):
if you want a new website oranything, but can I just talk to
you about this thing?
And it was just audienceresearch has helped me and I
just recently, in the past twomonths, did like more audience
research that we talked about inour first conversation.
It was like questions of justyou know, open-ended questions,
what they want, what they need,and it comes to their website.
I just did another round ofthat two months ago and learned

(08:33):
even more, and so, yeah, I juststarted with reaching out to my
connections and then they said Iknow somebody that needs to
know you, and then it kind ofspiraled through there.

Josh Hall (08:46):
Well, and the cool thing about your niche, as it
were, is it is broad enough towhere, like it's not hyper hyper
, like it's not a super smallmarket.
I mean, your website is clearlystated for speakers and coaches
and, as we know, you know thatcould branch you out to a lot of
different industries, althoughI imagine it does take you away

(09:06):
from, like, brick and mortarshops or hair salons.
You know stuff where you mayget some local business, but
this is consultants, coaches andspeakers are in different
industries.
So was that intentional?
Did you think about, like,making sure you didn't go too
hyper niche to where you're abig fish in a small pond, kind
of thing?
Since I know you love the lake,how, by the way, are you out on

(09:27):
the lake more?
I know that was a goal lastyear we are.

We have a boat.
We bought a boat last year andso we are out on the boat quite
a bit.
Can't wait for it to warm up sowe can go back out.

Josh Hall (09:36):
We're we're itching for it, so I love that you
remember that I'm so glad I wasgonna ask you about that because
, as you know, you're on thecoaching tier and pro and I
always ask coaching memberswhat's your goal?
And then I loved I, yours wasjust vivid as day because you
were like I just want to be onthe lake more.

Yeah, that is a great goal yeah, and so we get
to do that.
So check mark on that one.
But, um, to go back to thequestion about niching, yeah, it
did.
I was worried to niche.
I definitely was, and I was,like you know, I don't want to,
like you know, turn awaybusiness.
But then I did one WooCommercestore and honestly, I hated it
and I was like you know what?
This is going to be easy for meto like cut that part of my
business.

(10:09):
And then the coaching and whyit says coaching and thought
leaders on my website is mainlybecause I had been approached by
a few coaches and they werelike well, I'm not a speaker yet
, but I want to be.
Could you still work with me?
And the question was always, orthe answer was always like,
absolutely Like, if you want tobe on stages, that's what I'm
specializing in really, and so Ihave coaches and thought

(10:31):
leaders on there, but for themost part it is just speakers
that want to work with me, um,or want to get into that
industry.

Josh Hall (10:38):
So, yeah, I'm kind of curious about entrepreneurs or
business.
So like how far does this?
How far are you willing to bendthe constraints on your?
You know who you'll take on.

Um, the thing is like it doesn't help them any
bit to work with me if I'm not aspecialist in what they do, and
so I'm.
I'm a part of a bigentrepreneurial group and small
business owners and I get I getapproached a lot by people and
I'm not afraid to say no if it'ssomething that I'm not going to
be really good at.
Um, because I have my processes.
I have like how it works, and alot of my stuff, all the

(11:12):
languages saying you know what'sgoing to get you on stage,
who's the meeting planner, who'sthe person actually hiring you
and then who are in the seats?
Like I have like all of thesethings that I'm asking, which it
doesn't make sense to otherpeople.
That being said, I have workedwith a photographer who was a
friend and it was like as afavor, her husband was in the
construction industry and so Iworked with him and then he

(11:34):
started telling people about hiswebsite.
So I weirdly have this likeinvisible side niche of trades
and construction, and that'ssimply because people have been
saying my name and I was like,well, I can get you a website
that's just like theirs.
They're like, yes, perfect,great, all right, I guess so,
but yeah, when it comes to that,the niching, if I could go even

(11:55):
deeper, I totally would Like.
I think if I ever am like, oh,this is too much, everyone's a
little too different, I would gointo former professional
athletes who want to speak.
Like I'm not that afraid to dothat because I've worked with a
few and they were like myfavorite.

Josh Hall (12:09):
Wow, that is interesting.
I mean I would imagine thatcould even be like a hybrid
niche of crash design studio youcould do like a industry serve,
or it could be like wouldn't beindustry serve, but it'd be
like a segment.
You know, you can.

Yeah, and it just kind of turns into they all
know each other.
That's the other things, like alot of speakers know each other
and so they say my name.
A lot of professional athleteswho are now doing speaking all
kind of know each other as well,and so that's why I've gotten a
little bit into that sub niche.

Josh Hall (12:37):
I guess I would say so, hypothetically, if somebody
like me was to come to you,entrepreneur, business owner,
does like virtual speaking,doesn't do like in-person
conferences as much, but doescoaching.
But I don't really identify asa coach, like somebody who's
like a not a messy entrepreneur,but just like a hodgepodge of
all this consultant coach I'msure a lot of your clients fit a

(13:00):
lot of the check, a lot of theboxes.
Oh yeah, how, like what?
Is that the type of thing whereyou'd be like, hmm, maybe, or
would you try to weed me out?

um, I think it'd be a case-by-case basis.

Josh Hall (13:12):
Josh, I would, of course, I'd build you a website,
but I think it was an immediateyeah, like he's in, but you
know no I wouldn't just be like,yep, you know, here's the
deposit, sign it now.

Like we'd get on a, like I get on about a 45
minute call, no matter what,before someone's even allowed to
give me a deposit, because Iwant to make sure it's a good
fit and I'm not trying to workwith 10 people a month type of
thing.
I want to work with people Ireally like and just have my
have, have my little niche andcarve it out.

Josh Hall (13:39):
How are you dealing with inbound now, with leads and
referrals, because you are at avery different place four years
later.
I mean, like you said you, youhave a little bit of flexibility
and freedom here for what youcould potentially do if you want
to drill down further or startto add some constraints, but how
are you dealing with thereferrals?
I mean, I imagine you couldspend, you know, at least half a
day, all day, with calls ifyou're getting a ton of

(14:01):
referrals.

Yeah, I could, and most of my business still is
just referrals.
I have some clients who havegone really big in the speaking
industry and that brings inquite a bit of people because my
name is on the bottom of thewebsite.
But I'll get people coming inonce a week, maybe twice a week,
and if they're in my industry,yeah, let's talk.

(14:22):
If they're not, I have peoplethat I'm going to push them out
to.
I have some friends that are inthe web design industry, some
people in pro that I'm like okay, hey, here's this person, I
think they would be better fitfor you, but I don't market.
So I don't want to sayobnoxiously, but I'm not like I
need clients on LinkedIn orInstagram and hoping people come

(14:44):
to me and everything Like I.
I kind of do more of a naturaloutreach, I think, when it comes
to social media and that's kindof all part of this visibility
that I like to build up.

Josh Hall (14:54):
And your call to action on your contact page is
still schedule a call.
Well, there's a, there's a.
I'm kind of curious.
So you have the option you canschedule a call or you could
fill out the contact form togive a little bit of information
on their project.
What is your?
What's the percentage splitjust roughly between people just
going right to a call, or Iimagine and I found this to be

(15:17):
the case a lot of busyentrepreneurs, thought leaders,
coaches they don't really wantto take time for a call unless
it's absolutely needed.
So how many people are like Iwould probably be interested in
just sending a form in to getthe ball rolling before a call.
But you tell me, like how manypeople are scheduling a call
versus just sending in aninitial contact form submission?

I would say about 80% people schedule a call
first and I will say most ofthe people that fill out the
contact form are simply justtrying to find my prices, and
then half of them don't evenshow up to a call if I invite
them to it.
So if you schedule a call,usually you're like you're my
people Also, remember, I workwith speakers.
They like to talk, they justwant to, like, get on a
conversation.

(15:58):
They're they're, you know,extroverted like that, and so,
yeah, very rarely does somebodybook with me if they fill out my
contact form, and I've actuallynoticed that as like a trend
and so it's been reallyinteresting to watch.

Josh Hall (16:09):
Well it makes sense to, I guess, with the way you
are attracting leads beingpretty organic, largely referral
based, you are getting qualityover quantity as far as leads go
as a whole.
So it'd be different if you had, like, a big social media
strategy or a paid adsacquisition where you're getting
a ton of traffic.
I would imagine you would notwant the schedule a call option

(16:30):
to be out there on the firstlayer.

Yeah, no, if it ever got like crazy then I would
take that down.
But really, yeah, it hasn'tbeen a problem.

Josh Hall (16:38):
That's cool and I mean like a very for one thing I
was thinking about too ispeople who are price shopping or
looking at several differentagencies or studios.
They may not want to have like10 calls with 10 different web
designers, but if you know Joerefers Bob cause he's a speaker
and Joe's like you got to talkto Kristen then he's probably

(16:58):
going to likely just be wantingto do a call because it's like
you're the one in his mind to dothe work for him.

Yeah, Most of the time it's that or like I'll
even get DMS on Instagram orLinkedIn of like hey, so-and-so
said your name, we got to talk,and I'm like all right, cool,
Like let's chat, here's my link.

Josh Hall (17:14):
So you talked a little bit about your uh, the
questions you ask and prompt,and I remember from our first
conversation it was kind of alight bulb moment for me with
the idea of recording thoseinitial calls and using that as
website copy and content andgetting your client their, you
know, the leads just to talkabout their business, to help
you.
Yeah, what, what things?

(17:36):
That sounds like you've refinedthat over the past four years.
What is what?
What's different now?
What do you do differently now?
Do you have different tools inyour, in your toolbox?
Uh, you know, this is kind ofprobably a can of worms we could
open up, but like, what are theuh, what's the differences now
versus your business, you know,four or five years ago?

Um, my confidence first of all, that's
for sure.
Prices have tripled, at least,um, but my for things that I use
.
So when I said that I had justdone another round of like
audience interviews and stuffand I wasn't trying to sell them
on anything, that was allbecause I was building my own
GPT so that I can just ask itquestions, and it's responding

(18:18):
as if it was one of my clients.
And so it was.
It was a.
I was in a program and theperson taught me about this.
It was like interview theperson, get it transcribed, put
it in chat GPT and make your owncustom one.
And so now every time I go inthere, I'm like asking like hey,
can you ask, or can you actlike you are a client on a call
and then go through someobjections that you might have,

(18:40):
and I'll sit there and likepractice, what I would say to
those objections, or be moreprepared when somebody is on a
real call with me.
And so that's one of the bigthings is now the AI obviously
has really evolved since we'vetalked in 2021.
And so that's what I was doingit for was to have a little bit
of fun.

Josh Hall (18:57):
This is a great explanation of how to use AI.
That's not like AI is takingover web designers jobs.
You're a prime example of usingit to refine, like your perfect
offer and how you're talkingwith clients.
How do you practically do thatwith chat GPT, by the way?
Do you cause I don't know howto like make it its own thing?
How do you?
Is there like a setting towhere you can create your own

(19:19):
chat GPT bot?

Yeah, so you have to use the paid version,
that's for sure.
Um, cause I like gotinstructions on how to do this.
So I know, um, yeah, you haveto.
You have a paid version andthere's like an option to create
your own custom GPT and so like, then, if you use chat GPT a
lot on the left-hand side I havelike 10 million conversations
with it I have.
I can start a new one and say Iwant to talk to my audience or

(19:43):
I just want to do an open,regular GPT, the regular chat
GPT, open AI thing.
So, yeah, there's like steps.
I'm sure it'd be a really quickGoogle to figure that out, but I
was like I just followed it andit was yeah, transcribe your
conversations, you put them inlike on a PDF and you submit all
the documents that would behelpful for this GPT to know and
you can go in and add more, youcan tell it instructions before

(20:06):
it creates this GPT and you cansay you know, don't ever use
anyone's name in this, and I tryto take their names out before
during the transcription becauseI don't want them to say, like
you know, adam said this andit's like no, I don't want that.
I want you to act like you're aperson, so just give it
instructions.
But yeah, I put in like fivedifferent interviews in there
and it uses their answers tothese questions and then creates

(20:31):
different ones, because I'm notjust re-asking the same
questions, but it's really coolto see what it spits out.

Josh Hall (20:36):
Okay, so for people who are more savvy with ChatGPT
than I am, they probably alreadyknow this, but so you can go
just to your profile and then itsays my gpts and you can
customize it from there.
It's really, really cool.
It reminds me of what we justopened up with in pro.
Did you see, brock?

I did.
Yeah, love the name, by the waykids do the best branding.

Josh Hall (20:56):
Because my daughter was just like let's call it
broccoli and I was like, allright, we're all that shout out
to a kid that's got broccoli onthe mind.

I mean, mean you don't hear that?

Josh Hall (21:05):
often Right, yeah, I'm surprised it wasn't
chocolate or, yeah, punch roundsor something.
Right, fudgey would have beencool too, but hey, we'll go with
Brock.
But yeah, it reminds me of thatsame idea of like it's just
curating answers and coachingbased off of you know the

(21:39):
resources and pros.
So, likewise, every web designstudio could create I mean, we
could create SOPs based off whatwe're doing, but you're
utilizing it in a really awesomeway with, like, really drilling
into that.
So that's awesome.
That's awesome to hear howyou're every quarter, every year
.
Or did you get to a point whereyou were like I'm just gonna
like, double this thing and seewhat happens?

Yeah, it was that one.
I started, you know, just kindof like increasing, because I've
been told like one of my likefirst few clients was like he's
like I'm gonna, I'm gonna tellyou that you need to raise your
rates.
And I was like oh, and Iactually was like, okay, I'm
going to tell you that you needto raise your rates.
And I was like oh, and Iactually was like, okay, I'm
going to slowly raise them,slowly raise them.
And then I had a conversationwith somebody.
I was having an in-person coffeeconversation, which is very

(22:12):
rare for me to have with myclients, cause usually they're
all across the country, but likefinally I got a Wisconsin one
and he is a former footballplayer and all this stuff, and
so we were having coffee and hewas like and he asked my prices
and I told him and he was likeI'm going to act like this as a
friends and family discount andI need you to write this name
down.
And I'm like okay, so I likewrite a name down.

(22:32):
And he's like that's my money,coach, I need you to talk to her
.
He's like you are not chargingenough.
And he was like my friend didthis and he pulled up his
website, which was like terrible, sorry, but it was really
really bad and like didn'treally work all that well.
And he's like my friend didthis and he charges more than
you do.
And I was like, oh, so it waslike okay, well, and then it was

(22:53):
almost double, and this wasthrough my conversations that I
had interviewed with people oflike what did you pay for your
first website?
And everyone's like firstwebsite that they had to do the
copy for, they had to doeverything for, was like what I
was charging.

Josh Hall (23:06):
And.

I'm like, oh, I'm offering so much more.
I'm a specialist with this LikeI just I kind of needed a
little bit of like internaltherapy going on of like we need
to raise these rates.
And so, yeah, I doubled myrates within the past year, I
would say and this is almostfour years into this so I was
doing the gradual and then allof a sudden it was like I need

(23:28):
to, I need to bump it up there.

Josh Hall (23:29):
Well, especially since you know the niche, you've
refined it.
I imagine you're getting sitesout a lot faster than you were a
few years ago.
Win, win, win all around, and Ido copy.

Now, I don't do copy, I have a copywriter.
So all of my projects if I'mdoing a custom website, I do.
I do their copy for them.
Um, and they literally get onstrategy call with me and the
copywriter.
So they know like that's athing, and we go through
everything that they want to do,what they want to accomplish,
and he writes it, gives it to me, I do the design with my junior

(23:59):
designer and then, um, we'relaunched within a month at all
times.

Josh Hall (24:05):
I was just going to ask what is the suite of your
web packages?
What does that look like?
So, custom design, a lot ofstrategy, a lot of messaging,
help copy.
How far are you going into SEOand some of the other aspects?

Not too much.
I'll do the basics.
So your heading structure isgoing to be correct, your alt
tags are going to be in there,but I'm not doing any kind of
like ongoing a brochure stylesite.

Josh Hall (24:29):
I don't want to frame it, I don't want to make it
sound simple but they may justwant something that is going to
represent them for the next what?
Two or three years.

Yep, because a lot of what they're doing is
applying for speaking gigs andthen they need somewhere to send
them.
So it has their speaker reel,like their video of them talking
.
It has a podcast, if they haveit.
It has like all of the thingsthat they do shows off their
book.
But yeah, very rarely do theyneed a shop functionality or

(25:13):
anything else besides, just verybrochure.
But some of them need a lot ofthings because they talk to a
lot of different audiences andthen we break those off into
different pages.
So about eight pages is kind ofthe average that I do.
And then there's also thingswithin the speaking industry
that you need.
You should have a media page.
So if someone does book you,there's a page that should be
like a thank you page.
And it's got their headshotsready for download.

(25:35):
It's got their stage bios.
It's got any kind of AV likeaudiovisual needs.
Do they prefer a lavalier mic,a handheld mic?
So I'm going through all ofthat with them and making those
websites, those pages as well.
But yeah, it really is brochurewhen it gets down to it.

Josh Hall (25:52):
When, with these rate increases, did you?
Was there any other factorsthat led you to increasing your
rates other than just you know,a couple divine meetings divine
meetings you know like did?
Did life change at any pointwhere you were like I need to
make more, or I'd like to makemore, or we want to get that
boat like was?

(26:12):
Was there anything else thatcontributed to that, or was it
just somebody sounding like youneed to have your rights, need
to be way more than they are?

yeah so much like multiple people tell you
you need to raise your rights isgonna do it.
But, um, yeah, I mean lifestuff, like I, just I.
When it comes to the work, likeI have junior designer now I
have a copywriter like I need topay them so that needs to like
bump up, the value is going up,but I mean life really hasn't
changed all that much.
I mean I have a dog that eatslike crazy, but I'd really like

(26:41):
to have that boat paid off.
But, um, other than that, it'sreally just me protecting my
peace and wanting to like doreally good work and not need to
be doing 20 websites at a timeLike how you did 24 still to my
like.
I still remember that story ofyours and I was like I can't,
like I in no way that would sendme into a spiral.

Josh Hall (26:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't.
It wasn't 24, like huge sites,but it was 24 projects.

You know 24 emails.
I'm stressed out I'm not doingthat.

Josh Hall (27:10):
Yeah, well, it's funny Cause we're I'm talking to
Megan after this another promember who is is in the shoes
that I was in at that point,where she's just overloaded
right now.
So we're going to dig into that.
The reality is, it'sinteresting that you've been
able to stay at a sustainable,consistent pace.
It sounds like.
Have you had any waves?

(27:30):
I mean, I would be shocked tothink that you've never just had
a month or two where just a tonall came in, or has it just not
been the case?

Um, little waves , but not like big waves of like
.
I'm always.
I always know I'll be able topay my bills.
I'm never like stressed aboutthat.
I do have, you know,maintenance.
I do have all of those.
The base is covered.
Um, there'll be waves, likewith more people.
Um, there's generally a lot of.
There's some of my moresuccessful clients that they now

(27:58):
coach other speakers andeverybody wants to be like them
so that they see that, they seemy name, or they'll say my name
and like a training or something.
And then I all of a sudden I'llget three or four you know
inquiries at the same exact timeand I'm like, oh, I know
exactly who said my namesomewhere and so, but nothing
like big, huge waves that havestressed me out at all.

(28:18):
Yeah, just consistent, honestlyis a pretty good word.

Josh Hall (28:21):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Did you have any pushback whenyou raised your rates?
Or maybe not pushback, but didyou see any changes with
conversions or different clients?
When you I mean doubling yourrates now triple, I mean that's,
that's no small feat.
Um, so yeah, what was that like?
Were you nervous about a bigincrease like that?

Yeah, I was super nervous and, um, I wasn't
getting yeses to everybody, butI was getting a lot of yeses
before that and I think that'skind of like the thing.
Right, if you're getting 80,90% yeses, then your rates are
too low, like supply and demandtype of thing, and so I get a
few more no's now.
But I'm also more confident inthat because I was affirmed by

(29:01):
people are saying like yes,that's a good rate for you.
I'm like, oh okay, like I'm notlike topping out and, you know,
pricing myself out of somepeople and I'm starting to build
off a smaller package as wellfor people.
I had like a one page, like alanding page kind of offer that
was here's four differentlanding pages I've designed.

(29:21):
Pick one, I'll go in andcustomize it real quick, we'll
be done within a week, and thisis great for people that needed
a website yesterday, right, orthey're about to apply for new
speaking gigs, and so I'veplayed around with that.
I don't really market it allthat much, but it is always an
offer there.
It's kind of like that downsell.
If somebody did come to me andsay I need my first speaker

(29:43):
website and I'm sitting therelike, well, I'm like how much do
you charge per speech?
And if they say a couplehundred bucks, then I'm like
then it doesn't make sense foryou to work with me yet.
Like let's get the reps first,get the photos, get the, get the
proof of concept, then comeback to me.

Josh Hall (30:02):
But like let's do this something on a smaller
scale first, and I'm not afraidto tell somebody that, okay,
perfect, I wanted to unpack yoursuite of services here now.
So you have that kind of likelow end, almost like website in
a week landing page offer whichcould be a initial like getting
started piece, or it could be adownsell, like like you just
outlined.
That's awesome.
You have a website audit onyour website.

(30:25):
Is that your main low end, likeentry offer, just for people to
get to know you and feelconfident with you?

Yeah, so that is the thing that is on my website
, because I do a lot of trainingand workshops for speaking
groups, and so I like to offerthat as like a raffle of like
hey, if you're on the live call,I'm going to pick somebody.
You're going to get a freeaudit.
It's valued at this here, likeyou can see this, and if you
didn't win, you also canpurchase this if you really do,
if you really were interested.

(30:53):
So it's not something that getsused a lot, but it's mainly
there to position it as this isthis free thing that I give away
because I do a lot of trainingfor that's cool, gotcha.

Josh Hall (31:04):
So you have your website audit, which is 150
right now, which is a perfectlike lower end type of product.
Like you said, it could be alsosomething that could be a bit
of a carrot, either a promotionor or a freebie, a giveaway
that's awesome.
You have your website in a weekkind of service.
That's more landing page alittle little hidden and correct
me if I'm wrong on any of thisand then you have custom web

(31:26):
design and maintenance.
Is that right?

Yep, and the custom web design is actually
broken up into two differentpackages in them in themselves.
So it's like you have onespeaking page, or you know.
So it'd be like a five pagebrochure site is the one, or you
can get like the other one,which is multiple pages for your
speaking audiences.
These are for, like the authors, podcasters and then building
all of that in there.
So there's two within custom.

(31:50):
But yes, that's a correctbreakdown.

Josh Hall (31:52):
Awesome and I'm seeing here well done, kristen,
your signature speaker site.
I love that you named it.
That's very cool.
The signature speaker siteinvestment starts at $74.99,
paid over three months, veryclear, very transparent, awesome
, yep.
And then tons of bonuses withit.
So you're doing two months ofmaintenance and support on you

(32:14):
includes some.
That's great.
Did you happen to listen to theepisode I just released with
cammy, who is managing over 200?
yes, I did, I did uh, she justreaffirmed how beneficial it is
to give one to two months offree maintenance, just so
clients see what you're doingand get it and I was doing it
for a year.

So when I first started, I was giving a full
year of hosting because I waslike, well, you know, they just
paid me.
At that point I thought it wasa lot of money.
I'm like, they just paid me somuch money they're not going to
want to pay me anymore.
And now I'm finding that therewere people that had slipped
through the cracks and because Iwas disorganized, so they were
just getting free hosting.
I had somebody that got freehosting for two and a half years

(32:52):
and and I just found it like,like, like recently, and I was
like, hey, I was like, well, I'mlike, consider that a gift from
me.

Josh Hall (33:00):
But, however like, I'm like you know how, like
whenever, you work with Wix andSquarespace, you kind of got to
like pay that monthly thing.
How did that go over today?
Were they fine with paying?

Oh, he laughed.
He was just like, oh, he's likecool, all right.
And then he like he did go forthe basic option, like the
cheapest option, which I kind ofknew was coming, because he
went two and a half yearswithout paying.
But like now I have a VA aswell, and so she's that is, her
main job is making sure all ofthose get cleaned up, and every
time I launch she's likescheduling out those, those
emails.

(33:31):
So but yeah, the used to do ayear would not recommend,
because then after a year theyget kind of like used to the
free thing.
But now in the past like fivemonths I think, I've been doing
only two months and it'sconverted so much better,
awesome.
I'm taking care of so many morewebsites.

Josh Hall (33:49):
Two months free.
By the way side note for anyonewho has ever experienced that
to where you're like shoot, Ifeel like a total fraud.
I didn't realize they weren'tpaying for something.
Every single one of us has beenthrough that multiple times.
When I sold in transit, I wentthrough and I was like, oh my
gosh, I have like three clientswho haven't paid in like a year
and I didn't realize it.
So yeah, you're.

Yeah, shout out to my VA, who has paid for
herself now because she foundall of this.
And it wasn't just that onelike there was, there was a few
that hadn't paid and everything.
But you know what can you do?

Josh Hall (34:20):
okay, I want to dive into your team too, but real
quick on the pricing.
So what?
What stopped you?
Or have you thought about onemonth or what?
Why two months versus like aone month or a three month kind
of thing?

mainly, I mainly just because I want them to see
it a couple times and I and Ijust like a two, like two little
touch points of you know,here's this report and then
here's this, this report.
After that you can totally, youknow, compare the two and see
how your website's doing andeverything.
I think a lot of times thefirst month is skewed as well.
Um, if I'm being completelyhonest with my clients, because
you're like everybody, look atmy website, you're sending it to

(34:54):
your family, you're sending itto all these people, I think
your traffic is skewed.
So it's like okay, so month twois actually what you should be
basing things off of.

Josh Hall (35:03):
That's a really, really important point.
Yeah, gosh, that's awesome,because clients may not realize
that either.
Right, they may think, oh mygosh, this is getting.

Yeah, they're all like what happened.
Yeah, it's like what happened.

Josh Hall (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everyone has to do whathappened and you can kind of
guide them through that.
I love that.
That's a genius idea that makestotal sense.
I know a lot of web designers,a lot of pros, are doing three
months, which I guess two tothree.
It could probably work outProbably nice, that's a nice
thought.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, free quarter.
You know, 90 days, that's themax I would do free.

(35:35):
As you rightly said, people getused to getting a free service
and they're like no, I don'twant to pay for that.

Yeah, they're like why, why would I?

Josh Hall (35:43):
I didn't explain it well enough.
Yeah, yeah, this is great,Kristen.
You've got a really solid offerhere the investment of $7,500
over three months, but I likethat you have bonuses over
$1,000 of bonuses included withthe site launch, website launch

(36:04):
pack, training videos, plug inlicenses and then two months of
maintenance and support, whichis really cool.

Yeah, and if anyone is listening, that
doesn't have a launch pack.
You have to do that, like I can.
So much of my business has comefrom people getting excited
about their brand new site.
Me sending them Instagram andLinkedIn graphics of their new
site, like full page, like looksof it Plus, like them a picture
of, like a nice headshot ofthem with like the website in

(36:27):
front, like scrolling throughvideo, like they love that.
And then I have a here's acaption that you could put in on
it, and in that caption iscaption is you know, this was
done when I worked with kristinat crash design co.
This is the thing.
These are the things we talkedabout, so I'm already in there
and if they want to delete it,they can delete it, but most

(36:48):
people don't.
Most people want the easybutton.

Josh Hall (36:50):
They copy, they paste , I'm tagged I'm just gonna ask
you this live would you be downwith sharing your launch pack in
pro Like would you want to dolike a train, like a live
training?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Josh Hall (37:01):
I would love to dive in that Cause.
I was going to ask you herewhat's in your launch pack, but
it would be really cool to seethat visually.
So, if you're interested, maybethis summer we could do.
I could have you, you know, doa special training in Pro.
If you're open, just share inyour launch pack, because it is
such a hidden gem.
I mean a hidden gem for webdesigners.

It really is, and it is like that's why
referrals come to me Every timeI launch a new website.
I just wait for the 24 hoursand there's another person in my
inbox.

Josh Hall (37:30):
That's so awesome, so let's do it.
I'll follow up with you to getin here to do a live training
and we can look at that and havea training library pro.
There's a lesson in my businesscourse on creating a launch pack
, but I don't think that'ssomething that you could never
get enough examples of how,because there's no right or
wrong way to go about it.
There's so many, and a lot ofit may depend on your niche, of
course, like you may have, Idon't know.

(37:57):
Do you cater it towardsspeakers and coaches with
anything in particular, or areyou doing stuff that could work
for medical offices and stuff?

It could work for anybody.
Yeah, I have my emails allscripted out that I send the
moment someone's live.
I went live this morning withsomebody.
I literally just copied andpasted it over, changed out the
links and then they have all thethings.
I sometimes personalize itbecause I'm not working with a
ton of people, so I canpersonalize a little bit of it,
but it's really just plug andplay and then I have a Canva

(38:22):
template that I just go in Irecord their screen or record
their website and do all thethings like print out the three
or four graphics, attach it tothe email and send it to them
and I follow up with them a weeklater and then a month later
they get their first report andthen two months later they get
their next report that says, hey, we need to do the launch

(38:47):
Genius, see how this all comestogether.

Josh Hall (38:49):
I can't wait to see that.
I love it Really, reallyexcited.
So I imagine that may besomething that.
Do you have team members whohelp you out with that, or is
that something that you do,since you're more client-facing
with the launch pack stuff?

So my VA admittedly doesn't like to do
Canva, and that's totally fine.
I've been doing it recently,but also I just hired her like
three months ago so I could havesomebody else do it.
But I just do it and send itover to them.
I just know it's done.
When it is done, how long does?

Josh Hall (39:15):
it take for those, send it over to them.
That's just.
I just know it's done when itis done Like how long does it
take for those?
For what?
For your launch packs to putthose together?
I?

don't know, probably like 10, 15 minutes of
that.
Oh wow, I was thinking like acouple hours depending on oh, no
Cause I have the template on onCanva and then I just use, you
know, Google Chrome extension todo the full page, and then I
just do, do, do, do Awesome.

Josh Hall (39:35):
Okay, super cool.

Sorry to the podcast users for just me, just
like making noises right there.

Josh Hall (39:40):
But I always prefer yeah, because most people, like
you know, show something or wavetheir hands, but I prefer audio
cues Absolutely.

Like I just yeah .

Josh Hall (39:47):
Yep, even better.
So your team, chris, remind mewhen we talked.
I can't believe those fouryears ago when we talked then
what in the f?
Where is the time going?

um so much beer has been drinking since the two
of us.

Josh Hall (40:02):
So much hockey has been watched.
Oh you gotta, are you?
Are you coming to?
Uh, wdp con I'm not.

I I have already blown my budget on uh in-person
events.
This year I'm going to a hugeconference for speakers, and so
when that it's like the weekbefore or something like that we
we're going to have so muchextroverted, introverted self
could not do that two weeks in arow.
So next year next year.

Josh Hall (40:23):
Okay, next year deal, I'm going to hold you to that
Cause gosh, we're gonna havesome fun Anywho, um, did you
have any team members last year,did you?

Oh gosh, no, this is all within the past year
.
Um, I posted in a Facebookgroup of like hey, I need a
junior designer.
Like someone's got to help meout here.
Um, and I had about 14 peoplereach out to me and send me
their portfolio or their website, whatever.
And there was like three peoplethat I just like, all right,
I'm into it.
Like, let's, I'm going to givethem a small project.
So I had like the same projectthat was coming up.

(40:53):
I just paid each of them to doit and I compared and I was like
I really like one of thesegirls.
She's amazing and what's greatis she's in London.
So I wake up and stuff is done.
It's so cool.
But yeah, so I just white labelher out as my junior designer.
My clients know I have a juniordesigner, but she's running her
own business, but she's whitelabeled through me for my
projects and she's incredible,and so I have had her for about

(41:16):
seven months I would say it wasalmost a year now, cause it was
last summer.
And then I brought in acopywriter about six months ago,
cause I had a client thatreally needed it and found him
weirdly through threads.
Um, I posted like is there?
Are there any copywriters thatcan see this?
I like to do things in a week.
Can you work fast?
Fast, love to reach out to you.

(41:37):
And his first email he was likehey, I'm a brisket loving beer
drinker in texas and I was likehired so like you, instantly.
You obviously know how to put apersonality into into words and
I was like done, like hired himand haven't looked back since
that's awesome designercopywriter.
And then I have a va as ofthree months ago.

Josh Hall (42:01):
So with the, so with the designer what Facebook group
?
What was it like a, like a tool, specific group?
Was it a web design group?

I think, man, I want to say it was like a women
in web design group.
I don't.
I don't think it was like anElementor group, cause I use
Elementor, but I think it wasjust a women in group because I
use Elementor, that's right.
But I think it was just a womenin web design and I said I
wanted someone that was good inElementor and I was like I use
SiteGround as hosting.
If there's any way you couldhelp me with that, that would be

(42:26):
great.
So yeah, this girl just checkedall the boxes.

Josh Hall (42:29):
Awesome.
And then so threads for yourcopywriter, that's awesome.
And then your VA.
How did you end up finding theVA?

Yeah, I was in a business cohort this first
quarter of the year andeverybody had a VA but me.
And they were like, all right,you need to talk to this person
and there is a it's a agency,it's a VA agency outside of
Madison, wisconsin.
I'm in Milwaukee.
So I was like, all right,that's cool, I'll talk to this
girl.
And it was like instantly.
She's like we pair you with aVA, so we get to know your

(42:59):
business and within a monthyou'll have one.
So it's not this instant, likeI'm not going on online trying
to find somebody.
They're pairing me withsomebody.
And it was like what'simportant to you and mine was
willing to embrace technologywas really important.
I was like I don't want to calland text you, like Slack has to
be a thing, like I can't, Ican't keep up with these things

(43:19):
and like have to be just youknow, like you can work whenever
you want, like it was just likea big questionnaire that I
filled out and then I did anin-person interview or not
in-person, a virtual interviewand then they matched me with
somebody.
So that's how.

Josh Hall (43:31):
I found out Awesome, so it was almost like a um like
uh, I use Robert half for thiswhen I found a graphic designer
years ago like a headhunter kindof agency.

So they yeah, they find other VAs that want to
come in and then it gets allunder their agency.
But yeah, like this girl worksfor other ones as well, she's
got like five other clients, Ithink, and so they're all like
through different ways, like shefound them through all
different different ways, butdoes the agency bill you for her
or is she billing you directlythrough her?
The agency bills me gotcha, butwe're.

(44:04):
I mean that hourly rate I'm sureis more than you know, somebody
on fiverr or it is moreexpensive but they, like the
agency, has checked in with metwice, like they do like um,
like semi-annual reviews with meand making sure it's all worth
it, and then you can have apackage of like 15 hours I think
is their lowest, up to whateveryou want.

Josh Hall (44:23):
Gotcha, and I mean it took a lot of headache and time
out of you know for what youwould have had to have done
initially, and I was like on azoom with three people that were
like, yes, this is the way togo.

I'm so happy with my person and I was like,
cool, that's easy.

Josh Hall (44:37):
That's a good reminder that the agency route
for hiring is still a reallyquality route for all those
reasons and more yeah, you'llpay a little bit more, but you
save a lot of headache in thebeginning and in the follow-up
and I feel like they alreadyhave a pool of qualified people,
whereas if you hire somebodyfrom Upwork, so you know it

(44:57):
could go well, but it could alsoyou know stuff out there and VA
and everything for a reason.

So yeah, and she's like in Texas, so we're in
the same time zone technically,but she's got kids and stuff.
She's like I like to work atnight.
I'm like cool, I don't, I don'tcare when you work.

Josh Hall (45:17):
Heck yeah.
Is that a national?
I assuming it's a nationalagency, right?

It's a national, yeah, so it's US based, and
then it's specifically for women.
So the mission of the founderis to have women who are
specifically mothers employed ina way that maybe they couldn't
be otherwise, because they haveto run around with schedules of
kids and stuff like that.

Josh Hall (45:40):
What's the agency?

It's called my VA Rocks.

Josh Hall (45:44):
That's cool.

Yeah, and they do like podcast too, like I
think they just opened up likemy Podcast Rocks as well.
So if you needed someone tolike, do your editing for that
and everything.
Yeah, they're growing.
It's really cool.
The founder is also a speaker.
She's done a TED Talk.
So, like we, the founder isalso a speaker, she's done a TED
Talk.
So we hit it off immediately,and then we were talking about
musicals and everything.

Josh Hall (46:05):
But, yeah, Very cool.
Well, I'll link that in theshow notes.
It's very top of mind.
Just because there's somebodyin our somewhat immediate family
who is also a special needsparent and as a special needs
parent myself, I think sometimeslike how in the hell would we
do it if I was working nine tofive in a?
I could just I don't know howit's done, so I'm I'm wondering

(46:26):
I'm sure there are like evenmore so talking about niche,
like even more so for parents,and mothers in particular, who
want to work in the eveningslike special needs parents.

Yeah, I'm sure that's a part of it.

Josh Hall (46:38):
So yeah, I wonder yeah, I'm sure that's a part of
it.
So, yeah, I wonder yeah, that'ssomething I'm definitely.
I have a hidden passion forthat I could see expanding on
eventually, but I do wonder Iwould champion for them all day.

It's been a wonderful experience.

Josh Hall (46:51):
That's awesome, cool, very cool Shoot.
I was going to ask yousomething.
It's gone.
It's completely gone.
This derailed me in the best ofways, because now I'm thinking
about, you know, the otherspecial needs parents who need
VA situations so they're nottied to a job like this.
But this is really cool.
So a lot has happened in thepast year.
It seems like things compounded.
Is that fair in saying, likeyou put all, you really built

(47:14):
the foundation the first fewyears, and then I mean how long
have you been doing this total,not even just for this niche,
but how long have you beendesigning websites?

So it'll be full time in June.
On June 1st would be full timefor four years.
So still at kind of like athree and a half mark, maybe a
little bit more than that, and Iwas side hustling for a good
six months before that.

Josh Hall (47:35):
Okay, so five-ish altogether.

Almost at five yeah.

Josh Hall (47:39):
Wow, very cool.
That's impressive, kristen.
I mean the business you'vecreated, does it feel?
I mean it's gotta feel cool tobe in this spot and within five
years.

Yeah, it is really cool and, like I, I get
to do a lot of things now andpeople know me for what my
business is and everything, andso it's been really it's been
really fun.
I honestly like I think thispast, like this year,
specifically 2025, has just beenlike fun for me, so that's like
it's wonderful.

Josh Hall (48:05):
That's really cool to hear.
Awesome.
Oh yeah, because a lot ofpeople get to this stage that
I've seen because I coach now inpro and I do see a lot of web
designers build their businessand become an owner and then not
all the time but it can getstressful at this point when
there's a lot of growth andthere's just a lot of different
things going on.

(48:25):
But I really I mean you aresuch a great model of like
staying consistent andsustainable and having a niche
that you really enjoy working on.
Not you know, I mean there's aton of things you could do, but
it seems like you found a sweetspot with your services and not
going too far into SEO orongoing or marketing.
I mean you just you designawesome websites for speakers

(48:46):
and coaches.
You give them a launch pack,you get them on their
maintenance plan.
You're personable, stay intouch.
Am I missing anything?

And I and yeah, cause like I just know where
they're at and I know wherethey're from, cause I've been
doing speaking myself lately, soit's like I just it's I get, I
just get to work with a lot ofcool people.
But I also like I don't know ifI could have this great of a
disposition if it wasn't forhaving that junior designer,
because I am kind of getting outof the love for the design part
of it.
Um, like I just don't want tosit here and design websites all

(49:26):
day, like I now like have otherpassions that I want to do and
pursue and stuff, and so beingable to grow the business and
then also get like the work donehas been really, really helpful
.
And that's part of the reasonwhy I rebranded which is why we
couldn't find our videos becauseI now can use my government
name again, because I was usingmy maiden name when I first
started this business.

Josh Hall (49:38):
Yeah, and to that point I talk about this in my
scaling course, which is it'sreally it's a thought that's
easily overlooked, butparticularly in your situation
you have an opportunity forsomeone else, to give somebody
else an opportunity to be ableto design sites.
Who really wants to do that,like I don't know the junior VA

(49:58):
where she's at, but I imagineshe probably loves doing that,
and a lot of designers,especially junior roles.
I don't know the junior VAwhere she's at, but I imagine
she probably loves doing thatand a lot of designers,
especially junior roles.
They don't want to do theselling, they just want to
design and just do a project,and it's really cool to be in a
position where you have theopportunity to give an
opportunity, and that's not thecase for everybody.
So I love that you're embracingthat and releasing that so

(50:19):
somebody else can have fun doingthat.

And she's so good at what she does too.
That's the thing we startedwith me doing the homepage and
then her doing the inside pagesof websites, and we still kind
of do that.
We're actually Right now we'rein the first project where she's
doing the whole thing, and thenI'm going to go in and add my
touches on it or coach herthrough what I'd prefer things
to be like, but on it, or kindof coach her through what I'd

(50:42):
prefer things to be like, butyeah, like she's so good like
picking up my style and sheknows like I like bold, I like
like certain effects throughoutthe website, and so she's just
been wonderful.

Josh Hall (50:50):
It just came back to me.
I remember what I was going toask you before Elementor.
You have been using Elementorfrom day one, right, is that
right?

From day one.

Josh Hall (50:59):
There are so many other tools now.
Now there's a land grab forwebsite builders.
Which studio is starting totake off?
Webflow, show it.
All these other platforms.
What has kept you consistentwithout you know nickel or, um,
you know shiny nickel syndrome,where you're like, oh, I want to
try this, try this, becausethat's another trap I see a lot
of web designers fall into whatthey're like I'm, I'm gonna try

(51:21):
this, and then you end up havingto like relearn tools, get your
team to relearn tools.
What has kept you stay, likestaying or staying with your
tool stack?

I have tried other things.
Like, weirdly, switching fromelementor to divi was so
difficult to me and I think it'sjust because, like they're both
nuances but they kind of aresimilar at the same time.
I don't know.
But, um, I loved elementarycause I'm just good at it.
I'm, first of all, I'mgrandfathered into like their
cheapest license ever, and soit's like really hard to walk
away from that.

(51:52):
But I tried a Squarespacewebsite, cause there was
somebody in the area that Ireally wanted to work with and
he wasn't willing to move.
And I told him willing to move.
And I told him I was like I'venever done this, but if you're
willing to take a chance, likeI'd love to do that.
And he was like, yep, he's likeI trust you Cause he's seen my
work, and he's like he's like Ibet you'll figure it out and I'm
like, if not, I will refund allof your money.
Like this is truly just alearning thing for me.

(52:12):
And it ended up great.
He loved it.
It took me about twice, twiceas long as it would take me in
Elementor.
So like I have that skill but Idon't want to utilize it again.
But I've also been playing inGo High Level.
If you've heard of that likeit's more of like a more of
making, like a whole CRM and aSaaS for your client and so I

(52:34):
tried to play around with it.
It is so difficult there arethings that make it so hard for
a web designer but I do haveclients that have asked for it,
so I'm like I'm going to playaround with it.

Josh Hall (52:43):
So yeah, Eric's using it for in transit as far as our
like main client portal and allthat stuff.
But it is definitely, I mean itis a robust.
Yeah it's kind of an all in onetype of thing.
I don't know the builder or thewebsite builder itself.
I've seen and seen.
It seems like it would be wellsuited for landing pages for

(53:05):
folks who are doing that.
But yeah, I can't imagine doingcustom builds.
I also I know there was alawsuit with them in click
funnels I wonder yeah, I thinkthere was some proprietary stuff
that click funnels hadtrademarked or copied.
Write it, copy, written, copy,wrote.

Uh, and I don't wrote.
We don't even know how to sayniche, josh, let's not for
example, midwest folk hold on,let me find out.

Josh Hall (53:30):
I wonder what the latest is on that gossip time
digital gossip glad everyone'scoming on the ride with us yes,
high level.

I hadn't even heard of this, so, but it just
makes complete sense that itwould exist this is breaking
news.

Josh Hall (53:46):
Actually it's not breaking.
I think this happened last yearlet's see, let's see what the
latest is.
Uh, they let click funnelsallege that go high levels
funnel builder technologyinfringed on click funnels
patents potentially aiming forstrategic uh advantage and
settlement negotiations.
Blah, blah, blah.
Looks like it's all still goingon.

(54:11):
I don't know what the latestand I mean any legal thing.
I mean we're seeing it inwordpress now too, with with wp
engine and yeah, and uh, mullin,mullin wild man.
So yeah, it looks like it'sstill going on from what I see.
I'm not chat gpt and I'm goingold school and googling, but
anywho, yeah, I just wonder.
I mean it's just fascinatingbecause there's just so many

(54:33):
tools and so many options.
I honestly feel bad for folksgetting going now.
Uh, just because I'm like youreally just need to like see
what feels good to you.
Like you mentioned, elementorjust felt good over divi.
I don't know if you've trieddivi 5.
Divi 5 is a very tried to be 5.

I honestly, like my clients don't care, like
they just want, they want itfrom me.
And I say like this is how I domy best work.
And they're like cool, okay,sign me up, like I don't care,
and then I shoot them a videothat's another part of my launch
pack, though that is the thingthat takes longer time is.
I shoot them a video of likehere's how to log in, here's how
to edit your stuff, and then Ihave like a full library for

(55:10):
them to look at, of like you'dadd a new page here you go.
I don't, but for me it's just.
My clients have always justbeen like yeah, okay, I've had
one that had Divi, and she waslike can I add Divi on top of it
?
And I'm like I really don'tthink that's going to work how
you want it to work.

Josh Hall (55:29):
You could.

you could do the Divi builder, but yeah, I don't
know how well it plays withElementor, but literally I got
on a Zoom call with her and wentinto the back end of my own
website and started moving stuffaround and showed her like how
easy it was for me to changethings.
She's like oh okay, that's fine.

Josh Hall (55:44):
She's like sign me up yeah, I mean, the reality is
more and more because,especially with pro, just seeing
overseeing so many designerswho are using even different
builders and platforms, I'vereally landed on like just
choose the tool that you likeand as long as it, the
functionality is there, youshould be fine, whether it's a
builder, wordpress or like I.

(56:06):
It's so funny because, coming inthe divi, coming from the divi
world, I used to be like, oh,elementor, who would be better
than divi?
And now I'm like I know tons ofclose friends and tons of pros
use elementor and love it.
I'm like, yeah, if it works,that's good, great.
Like, do you want?
So if somebody wants to useSquarespace or Wix studio or
show it, I don't care, whateveryou like.

If you, if, if any of my clients come to me and
they're like this is a dealbreaker, I must use Wix studio.
Cool, here's my friend, amanda.
I already like you're going tolove her.
Great, go to her.
Like, if that's your, if that'syour deal breaker and I can't
get you out of that, I havepeople to send you to.

Josh Hall (56:42):
Yep, that's a great point.
That's a great point If you do.
It is nice to build a networkand that's one wonderful thing
about pro.
It's like if a client isabsolutely dead set on Divi and
you're not going to take that ontons of Divi web designers you
can refer somebody to, or likeif someone's in an industry that
I don't work with, street thatI don't work with, I've posted
in pro like hey, I have thiswebsite.

I'm like I don't really understand this, what
he's wanting, but this is whathe sent me.
I put, I put it in pro andsomebody immediately was like
this is my jam, this is what Ido and I'm like cool.

Josh Hall (57:18):
Here's his phone number.
Like yeah, like it's not forupdates regarding the lawsuit,
so imagine it still.
It was initiated in April 24.
Interesting so, well over oralmost a year, almost a year,
yeah.
So it's just interestingbecause you're getting a lot of
builders and technologies thatare looking.
I mean, even Divi 5 is verycomparable as far as the, the,

(57:40):
the layout, to Elementor in someways, but also like Wix Studio
actually I was playing aroundwith that.
It actually functions a lotlike Divi 5, like it with the
way.

I've been wanting to dive into Wix Studio,
but it's interesting?

Josh Hall (57:53):
I do.
Yeah, wix Studio is fascinatingbecause they it's very
different than Wix and it is I.
It is getting gaining traction,and I do.
I'm keeping an eye on it isgetting gaining traction, and I
do.
I'm keeping an eye on it overthe next year to two here,
because I do think they're goingto.
I think it's going to blow upin some ways, but WordPress is
also still almost half theinternet, so we're safe as

(58:14):
WordPress designers for quite along time as well.
And the bill I think thebuilders are really going to
dictate like where, howWordPress continues on it.
I really think it's like Ialmost view Divi, elementor,
breakdance, bricks as their own,like platforms, and it's just.
Wordpress is just the commonfactor.

Yeah, and we'll technically show it.
Is that as well?
Show?
It's technically built onWordPress as well.
They just oh, I didn't knowthat.
So if you wanted like a blog onyour show at site, you have to
like set it up on a WordPresssite exactly how we would, and
then, like you, connect it.
It's yeah, so it's technicallybuilt on WordPress, but so which
is really funny, becausethere's always like haters and
social media of like use thisinstead of the other one, and

(58:55):
it's like we're all kind ofusing the same tool.
By the way, is it self-hosted,though, or can you use a show at
?

Josh Hall (59:05):
site on like psych ground.
I believe it's self-hostedinteresting I started.

When I started designing websites, I used show
it just because like that's whatI was seeing on tiktok and
everything and I really likedthe builder.
But I thought it's really easyto make a messy website um and
like not have things aligned andthat that bothers me.
So I got out of it prettyquickly interesting, so show and
I might be saying this wrongbecause, again, this was like

(59:29):
four years ago that I had beenlooking at this, but it was like
, yeah, here's the download fromwhat I discovered show.

Josh Hall (59:34):
It is not built on wordpress but it does integrate
with wordpress for bloggingthere, it is okay so you nailed,
showit is a drag and dropwebsite builder, blah, blah,
blah blah without code, how itconnects to WordPress the pages.
So I imagine, like most of themain pages are built and managed
on Showit.
Blog posts, specifically, areWordPress, so somehow Showit

(59:58):
manages the WordPress hosting onyour behalf.
So that's what's kind ofinteresting.
It's like if you, I guess, ifyou, if you, you, if you use it
for blogging or maybe differentpost types, then it's hosted
separately.

Kristin Adkins (01:00:12):
how that connects to the site, I'm not
sure that's interesting yeah, noI'm sure it's like four years
ago, but I remember it was funbecause it was kind of like
building a little digital uhscrapbook, because it's truly
drag and drop.

Josh Hall (01:00:24):
Somebody knows listening right now and they're
probably like God, bring me up.

I know someone's screaming, I just know it.
I'm sorry.

Josh Hall (01:00:31):
Same here.
But there's just so manydifferent tools, so that's
that's cool to.
I mean, you definitely seemlike a person who's like it
ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's working well.
You know it.
You know you're.
You know it.
I know how to like make mystyle on it and I know how to do
that easily and I like that.
I can like copy and paste fromone website to another like
really, really easily.

Josh Hall (01:00:51):
I'm not downloading like a template, uploading it,
it's like just copy from onewebsite to the other and I will
say I a key uh component to webdesigners and business owners,
entrepreneurs who are in thisrealm that we're in in web
design and marketing andentrepreneurship.
One of the commonalities topeople making it and staying

(01:01:11):
sustainable is they're notdabblers.
It's very hard to get them tomove from, even if it's a dated
thing.
I still use 17 hats for all myinvoicing and proposals and
contracts and it's dated in someways, but the functionality is
there.
It's never let me down.
I've never had an issue with itat all.

That's like I haven't touched Dubsado since I
set it up.
Like I truly like I'll go inand like edit some things and my
proposals and all that, butlike it was set up four years
ago, it is set up the same exactway set up four years ago.
It is set up the same exact way.
All of the automations are thesame.

Josh Hall (01:01:43):
Like I'm not touching it, yeah, If it's not broke.
I have to ask this this isshameless self-promotion, but
you mentioned, you know, havingpro as a resource for you with,
with, with partners and stuff.
What made you so excited whenyou joined pro?

I was like oh, kristen's, here, yes.
I got that video immediately Iwas like Kristen's here.

Josh Hall (01:01:59):
What's up?
What made you join pro?

Um, well, first of all, like how could I not
Like I mean, you put togethersuch a good community and it was
more of like the courses, butthe main thing was the um, the
masterclasses that you werehosting, and, um, there was like
you were, you had Jason Graciaand we've talked about this.
I like I told you I was like Ilike I had been following him.

(01:02:27):
I was like really like Iadmired what he did for coaches
and like how he built his wholesystem, and that was like the
month that I joined was JasonGracia's like master class and I
was like I need to be hit onthat call and that the value I
got from that was like worth itto stay in here.
I'm not in like the coachingtier because I don't jump in
there enough to justify it but Iam in the community tier now
but I just moved down and I wasjust kind of like I just need to
linger for a little bit becauseI am in, like I said, I was in

(01:02:49):
a business cohort, I'm inanother, like entrepreneurship
group.
I was like this is just a lotLike I just need to pare down,
but I'm not going to leave pro.
That would be.
That would be crazy.

Josh Hall (01:03:02):
Well, that's amazing and that's a great use case.
As far as why I opened up thetears to that, exact thing Cause
I oh, that's amazing, and I didsee people leaving who were
just like I'm just not able touse it a lot right now, so I'm
out.
But I wanted to make it so likeyou don't need to be out
completely.
Like you know, I have only somuch capacity and time for my
coaching.
So, like, if you want to use it, awesome.
But in your case, like I lovethat you're still there and I

(01:03:22):
can still tag you and and youcan jump in when you want it and
you can come to the event.
Hoping this year I'm stillgoing to.
We got a month.
I'm going to see if I canpersuade you to come out because
Jason's going to be there andJason is sharing live.
Yeah, we're going to do amock-up call.
There's five speakers, jasonand I.
I'm going to be his lead andwe're going to do a mock-up call

(01:03:44):
and he's going to walk usthrough his sales process.
Live that.
I mean.
He's made it for $2 million infive years with his stuff, so
I'll send you some details Chriswe have seven tickets and
there's going to be a lot ofbeer and it's going to be a
blast.
We're going to a baseball gametogether, we're all going to a

(01:04:04):
baseball game on Friday night.
It's all covered.
I got it all covered.
Saturday is the workshop.
Are you familiar with Jay Klaus?
Do you know him at all?
He's a creator of science.
He's just one of the bestcreators today.
In my mind, he's going to betalking about email and news.

One of those, but definitely not this guy.

Josh Hall (01:04:23):
Not Jay Klaus, he's, he's in Ohio.
But, uh, shannon Matternspeaking, michelle Bermanier is
going to be speaking.
It's going to be freakingawesome.
So, anywho, all right, I'llfollow up with you after See if
we can get that, get you there.
But, um, yeah, I reallyappreciate you sharing that.

I was kind of curious, so, yeah, it just like
having the courses like ondemand was really helpful
because, like, I bet you can goin and see my activity of there.
It's like just jumping into arandom lesson, coming out of it
jumping like I just just pickingwhat I need at the time, and
that's what makes pro so great.
It's like I have it all at mydisposal right like.
I bought maintenance backbefore the community so I was

(01:04:57):
like I bought the maintenancecourse because that was like my
like first introduction to likehey Josh, my name is Kristen
Like, and then it kind of youknow, has gone to this four
years later.

Josh Hall (01:05:07):
And that is what's interesting.
I guess it depends, like thecourse creation world and you
may do.
You serve course creators inyour niche, or is that a
different?

um, a lot of them just want to like link to
their stuff.
So they'll put it on likekajabi or whatever and they just
like, want to link, and I'mlike, all right, we'll make a
sales page for it and then youcan link it out.
But I've had one client want tohost her courses on her website
.

Josh Hall (01:05:30):
So and I was willing to do anything.

And that was like in the early days and I was
like, yep, I'll do anything,like I just want to make you
happy, so not much postingonline on their site.

Josh Hall (01:05:39):
I just asked because there's such a shift in courses
online now compared to even whenwe talked four years ago for
the show.
Like I think if you were tohave like a couple signature
courses, you can get by withjust having courses.
But, like in my case, with thesuite of courses and now
additional trainings, it's likethere's no other model that

(01:06:00):
would work than just havingeverything as a pick and choose
subscription, because I do thesame thing that you do.
I'm in, actually, in Jay Klaus,I'm in his community, the Lab,
and a lot of courses, a lot ofposts, a lot of resources.
It's kind of like more of acreator's version of Web
Designer Pro and I do the samething.
I just pick and choose lessonson certain courses sometimes or

(01:06:20):
pop in a post that I think islike oh yeah, I do want to get
in on this.
So, yeah, it's awesome, verycool, kristen.
Well, I mean, this has beenreally cool.
It's been awesome catching up.
I do have one final question foryou, but this has been a really
great overview of what you'vedone, again just to reiterate
like I'm so impressed by whatyou've done, again just to
reiterate like I'm so impressedby what you've created.

(01:06:41):
But also I just wanted tohighlight what you're up to,
because you are just such a goodexample of staying consistent,
sustainable.
You're out on the lake, morehaving a good time, had your
funnest year to date so far,which is like what a win.
Like, apart from, you know,tripling rates.
Tripling rates is really cool,but having fun is really really

(01:07:03):
really cool.

And having fun for me might not be the same as
for everyone else, cause, likethis is kind of going into what
I've been doing.
Besides, the design part is I'mspeaking on stages now, like I
am also a coauthor of a book.
I do a lot of podcast guesting,like I've got a lot of
different things that I'm doingthat aren't just the web design,
but it all funnels it into theweb design.

Josh Hall (01:07:23):
Are you going to be a podcast host?
Because that was a perfectsegue Cause I was going to.
I was going to give you theplatform to share a little bit
about you know your passionprojects coming to life now.

No, I am not a podcast host, but I will do a
little self plug, for what I amdoing when it comes to my
speaking is I've been doing morelike sharing my story and how I
got to where I am right now,and I shared my story Actually
when I was on your podcast.
The first time was the firsttime I told somebody I didn't
know my actual story and so likewhy I had started my business

(01:07:53):
and all of that.
Well, now that has beenpublished, that has been I've
been on stage saying that andit's all like going into this
visibility thing that I'm kindof like jumping into and it's
been really fun.
And so I'm doing like more likepersonal brand, um, but telling
my story.
And so, like, what I wanted toshare with everybody was I have
the.
I have a video of how a webdesigner can tell their story

(01:08:16):
and find clients.
That's not through being salesyand it's through being on the
stage, and so I talk about why Ibecame a web designer, what
really changed in my life thatturned me into this, and then I
talk about like who I get towork with and how amazing it is,
and then people hear that andthey like get brought in and
they're like I want to be a partof that as well.
So, like that's what I've beendoing, it's a lot more speaking,

(01:08:37):
and not just into thismicrophone, but more on an
actual stage with lights on mevery cool.

Josh Hall (01:08:44):
we'll make sure we have that video linked in the
show notes for this one.
Yeah, because and yeah, I meanstory I think story in the, in
the age of ai and everythingelse going on like real personal
, oh yeah, lived experiencestories are more important than
ever to get.
It's a great reminder, likeI've got some stories I need to,
and sometimes we tell storiesfive years ago and we forget

(01:09:05):
Like the people we just met whoare in our zone are new leads
and clients now.
They don't know that from fiveyears ago.
So keep on repeating the story,get it out there.
That's a great reminder.

And that for everything too.
A testimonial you got fiveyears ago is still a testimonial
you can share today, like, evenif you shared it five years ago
, you still can.
You still should be postingthose things, follow up with
them, see if it's still, youknow, going well, and so that's
what a lot of my business rightnow is, is just a lot of talking
to people, and it's been fun.

Josh Hall (01:09:33):
Oh, that's amazing.
We'll have all this linked inthe show notes.
Last question for you realquick how is the beer in
Wisconsin Are we talking like?
Are you a Pilsner gal IPAs?

I am anything but an IPA person, but like it's
Wisconsin, and if you come toWisconsin, Josh, I will buy you
a Spotted Cow.
If you don't know about thelegacy of Spotted Cow, it is
only sold in Wisconsin.
It is brewed in the state.
You cannot, a store cannotlegally sell it outside of state
lines and it's just a reallygood.
It's like a cream ale, but it'skind of on the lighter side.

(01:10:08):
But I do still like to just goback to my roots and drink a
nice light beer, a nice lightlager.
But yeah, I have really poortaste, I think, when it comes to
beer.
I just enjoy it.

Josh Hall (01:10:19):
That's all right.
There is no poor taste in mymind.
I would love to take you up onthat, absolutely.

I was just a boring person in a brewery last
week Like this is all I'm goingto say.
There were options everywhere.
I'm like what's your closestthing to a Miller Lite, please?

Josh Hall (01:10:39):
I was just going to ask because Miller Lite, and
that's just where it well, youcome to Wisconsin, you can take
the tour of the brewery.

Um, there's like 400 steps in it.
They like they tell you thewhole thing, but yeah, so it's.
I think it's kind of like Coorsin Colorado it doesn't taste.
There's only one place that cantaste the best and that is like
where it was brewed, and so Ithink Wisconsin Miller Lite
tastes better than other MillerLites.

Josh Hall (01:11:02):
Is that where it originated from?

Yeah, the brewery is right downtown
Milwaukee.

Josh Hall (01:11:12):
Oh, my wife and I are definitely.
I'm going to relay thatimmediately because, yeah,
that's definitely our go-to, soawesome.
Well, when I get you to come toour event here next month, you
first round on me and then we'llgo okay actually, literally it
is because dinner is covered andeveryone gets a drink if they
want one, so it is literallycovered.
So I mean, I'm really I'mletting it on.
Everyone is hearing my sales.
Yeah, we're get, we're gonnaget there.
I don't know if we'll get you.

(01:11:32):
I know you have a lot going on,but we'll see.
This was awesome, chris, andthanks so much.
Really appreciate you, asalways in that round three, you
know, definitely, definitely.

And then within four years.
How about that?

Josh Hall (01:11:43):
Definitely within four years, and I can't wait to
have you in pro to do a littlelook at your launch pack, so
we'll make that happen.

Absolutely.

Josh Hall (01:11:51):
All right, keep it up .

Yes, I will talk to you soon, and everybody else
.

Josh Hall (01:11:55):
Thanks, kristen.
I mean, if you were takingnotes on this one, show me a
screenshot of your notebook,because this was a bit of a
masterclass in how to thrive infive years as a web designer.
Kristen again has done so manythings right, so I just want to
publicly say thank you toKristen for being so open and
transparent with everythingthat's working for her.

(01:12:17):
Again, we talked about a lot ofresources that are going to be
available and linked up over atthe show notes page.
For this one, that will be atjoshhallco slash 375.
And again, if you are not yetsending out website launch packs
, this is a lesson that'sincluded in my business course,
but if you would like to seeexactly how Kristen is doing it,

(01:12:38):
the training has not yet beencommenced inside of Web Designer
Pro, but Kristen is going to bedoing a live training inside of
Web Designer Pro this summer,in 2025, showing all the ins and
outs of her website launchpacks.
We do guest trainings almostevery month in Pro, so it's just
another reason to jump on in tothis incredible community that
is waiting for you.

(01:12:58):
Go to webdesignerprocom, joinus today.
You can join the communitylevel to get access to the
monthly trainings and to meetKristen.
She's a member right now andshe's just a total pro.
She's truly a web designer pro.
So I can't wait to see you inthere and, again, I can't wait
to hear what you pulled awayfrom this one.
Leave us a comment atjoshhallco slash.

All Episodes

375 - 5 Years In and Thriving with "Web Designer for Speakers" Kristin Adkins

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}375 - 5 Years In and Thriving with "Web Designer for Speakers" Kristin Adkins