382 - Looking at a $2,000 Paid Discovery Offer with Racheal Graham

Paid Discovery is a HOT topic right now in web design.

The idea of getting paid for a discovery call – before wasting an hour of your day with someone who has a budget of $300 – is dang intriguing for pretty much every web designer.

But then the questions come up…

• Is it just a consult/strategy call?
• How much do I charge for it?
• What if I don’t have enough experience or expertise?
• What’s included in paid discovery?
• What if I don’t want to be viewed as a digital marketing agency?

Welp, we tackle all of those questions and more in this episode with Racheal Graham, an established web design agency owner who has a proven $2,000 paid discovery offer and who graciously pulls the curtain back on her entire process.

Enjoy!

Head to the show notes to get all links and resources we mentioned along with a full transcription of this episode at joshhall.co/382

Episode Transcript

Racheal (00:00):
It feels like it has been the key to financial
stability for us, like it's whatit's kind of like the, the fuel
for the recurring revenue thatwas going to let me sleep at
night.
You know what I mean.
Like when I first left mycorporate job, I had no idea
that I was like emotionallyjumping off a cliff because I

(00:20):
just really liked that paycheckcoming in every two weeks,
because I just really liked thatpaycheck coming in every two
weeks and just having thatsteady relationship with a
handful of clients that continueto trust you and come back.
It made all the difference injust how I felt about business
in general.
So I think it's a really goodapproach.

(00:40):
Welcome to the Web DesignBusiness Podcast with your host,
josh Hall, helping you build aweb design business that gives
you freedom and a lifestyle youlove.

Josh (00:55):
Hello, my web designer friend, it is splendid to have
you here, especially if you areinterested in one or more of
these things paid discovery, howmuch is charged for it, how to
offer it, and growth plans.
If you are considering, oryou're in the weeds right now,
of figuring out how to take yourweb design services to build

(01:18):
your MRR, your monthly recurringrevenue and offer growth plans,
my guest in this interview,rachel Graham, who is the CEO of
Greenhouse Creative, is and I'mnot even joking about this is
like a shining example of bothof these things.
The reality is, in web designright now, paid discovery and
growth plans are huge hot topicsbecause they lead to better

(01:40):
clients and bigger MRR.
But how much you charge, how tooffer them, when to offer them,
what you do, how you protectyour scope All of that is what
we're going to cover in more inthis one.
You can check Rachel out at herwebsite, greenhouse creativeco,
and she has a little somethingspecial for you as a web
designer that is completely free.

(02:01):
It is a free on-demand workshopto help you put your paid
discovery process together.
So after this conversation, Ithink it'll be a great next step
for you.
We'll have this linked in theshow notes at joshhallco, slash
382, but you can also go tocoursesgreenhousecreativeco and
there you can pick up her, getpaid for your plan how to offer

(02:25):
paid discovery in your webdesign business to build your
MRR and attract higher payingclients.
Again, rachel's a bonafideexpert, someone to really learn
a lot from.
I sure did in this conversation, so I can't wait to hear how it
helps you as well.
All right, let's talk paiddiscovery.
Here's Rachel.
Rachel, it is so great to haveyou on.

(02:47):
We have a mutual friend inShannon Mattern.
You are a web designer who hasdone all web designers dream,
which is to pack up and movedown to the beach.

Racheal (02:57):
That's exactly right.

Josh (02:58):
And you took your business with you.
I mean, does life get anybetter than?
I mean, honestly, like howawesome is that that you and
your family can just move?
I don't know what, uh, you knowyour family situation is like,
but for you, as a web designer,to be able to move to a beach
and probably keep your clients,I mean how awesome is that.

Racheal (03:16):
Yeah, it's been incredible, um, truly like pinch
me kind of moments.
We bought a boat, we spend mostof our weekends on the water,
um, and there's all sorts of.
I mean, we still work reallyhard, but it's.
It's nice to have the freedomto do it when you want and where
you want.
So, yeah, it's, it's highlyrecommend.

Josh (03:36):
How long have you been doing web design in the form of,
of what you're doing it now,with the focus on strategy and
business growth and some of theother things you're doing it?

Racheal (03:45):
now with the focus on strategy and business growth and
some of the things you're doing.
Well, it's been an evolvingprocess.
So my background is in softwaredevelopment.
I was a system analyst, so mywhole job was translating
between what people say theyneed or and what they actually
need there's always a differencethere, right and then somehow
translating that for the peoplewho are going to go build the

(04:06):
solution.
So I carried that experienceinto my business and sort of
accidentally started torturingmy clients with it.
When they said you know, I needa website and they thought they
were getting something simple,I'd start asking 1000 questions
and then all of a sudden, whatwe were trying to accomplish
became a little morecomprehensive than just I need a

(04:27):
website.
So it happened pretty naturally.
But it's been about 2 yearsthat we've offered this exact
model that we do today and havejust really grown to love the
way that it works for our team,for our clients.
So it's something that I feelso passionately about I can't
not talk about it, so I might aswell share and make it

(04:48):
accessible to others.
So here we are.

Josh (04:51):
Now this was after your move down to the beach.
You said you moved in 2020 fromNashville down to the beach
before we hit record.
But what was the foundation ofyour business at that point?
Because I think this isimportant for context with,
particularly for anyone whomaybe wants to move out of state
I imagine, a lot of folks withlocal connections.

(05:11):
I don't know what that lookedlike for you.
It's probably a little nervewracking to think like do I want
to leave all my local clients?
What did your business set uplook like at that point?

Racheal (05:19):
So at that point I was still running my business on the
side.
I was probably working 20 or 30hours a week and it still had
my full-time corporate gighappening.
Luckily it was a fully remotesituation so I was able to bring
that income with me without anydisruption.
But all of the clients I wasworking with, especially there

(05:41):
at the beginning, were frompersonal connections.
You know friend of a friend.
The same way you just likestart knocking down doors at the
beginning to get your firstclients, it was that same group
of people and because therelationships were there, there
was truly no disruption at all.
I mean, I never met with clientsin person a whole lot it was
always on a call just for thesake of scheduling and

(06:04):
availability, so that was aconvenience to them.
There really wasn't anydisruption to my business at all
, and then it just continued togrow and I was able to leave my
job shortly thereafter.
So Gotcha.

Josh (06:18):
That's great.
I think it seems like after2020, the entire world got used
to doing what we do, which is tojust prefer calls, so I think,
even more so nowadays, there'sjust more room to be able to do
things remotely.

Racheal (06:34):
Absolutely.

Josh (06:35):
Without it being odd, you know, to corporate.

Racheal (06:36):
Yeah, people expect it, I think.

Josh (06:38):
Yeah, mm, hmm.
So you said you kind ofgradually lended yourself, and
probably with your backgroundtoo, with your corporate
background.
I imagine you're probablysystems data.
Am I correct in saying yoursystems data?

Racheal (06:55):
juror men, yeah, yeah, I don't want to do any work
that's not going to produceresults, period.
And so a lot of even just thepositioning of this offer where
we lead with strategy to ourclients is let's figure out what
you need and let's figure outwhat you do not need, because I
don't want you to pay us anymoney that doesn't bring you a

(07:16):
return.
And so we work with a lot ofpeople in the interior design,
home design space.
In the interior design likehome design space very
aesthetically driven industry,obviously it's all about pretty
pictures.
Oftentimes, our clients come tous initially thinking that's
all it is, and so we're havingsome aha moments in those

(07:38):
initial conversations wherewe're saying you might not have
to have an Instagram accountthat you post to every day, and
we can help you with the thingsthat will actually help you get
new clients, as opposed to thethings that are just going to
create a lot of activity for you.
That's a pretty powerfulstatement to somebody who'd
never considered there wasanother way to solve the problem

(07:58):
.
So that's kind of where thosethings begin.

Josh (08:02):
Okay, so you just opened the door for me to just dive
right in here.

Racheal (08:05):
Yeah, there you go.

Josh (08:06):
What's included, how you offer it, how you price it, all
the things what you said.
Right, there is the key, Ithink apprehension for a lot of
web designers, yeah, and they'reafraid to become like a
business consultant or a digitalmarketing person, but at the
same time, I'd argue that inmost cases, web designers are

(08:29):
having those conversationsanyway.
Even if you just scratch thesurface of where your traffic is
coming from, you could probablynudge that little hint what you
just said, rachel which is like, yeah, maybe you don't need to
do Instagram, maybe it'sLinkedIn for you or something
else completely.
So how do you?
I guess let's start out withhow do you constrain strategy?

Racheal (08:50):
Yeah, that's a great question and it truly is unique
to every client we talk to rightEvery.
Even if you think on broaderterms, like anyone who's in
anything tangential to marketing, you've got some frameworks
like you know what to somedegree, what works in the market
.
You know what solutions areavailable.

(09:11):
Are we going to do this kind offunnel?
Are we going to lead with theseplatforms or those platforms?
So you kind of like, have this,you've got a menu of choices
right.
So you've already got someconstraints built in there
because you know what's possible.
And I would argue, especiallyspeaking to that hesitation,
some people have to show up asthe expert.
We overestimate what ourclients know and understand in

(09:35):
this space all the time.
Designers that I've seenprobably still have 10 times the
knowledge about these thingsand what will help a business
grow than many business owners.
So I think you've got to startjust kind of giving yourself

(09:55):
that credit and then, for themost part, from there we just
talk to the business about whatthey need.
There's a lot of why.
There's a lot of what are wetrying to achieve by building
that website and asking somedeeper questions?
And I find all the time evenmore advanced business owners

(10:15):
haven't always really thoughtthrough those things.
A lot of times they're seeingwhat their competitors do and
they think, look, maybe I justneed to replicate that, and so
being able to guide them towardsa more custom solution that's
going to feel good for them oreven fit in their budget in some
cases, can be really powerfuland earns a lot of trust.

Josh (10:36):
So the big question here is and let me just put myself in
a client's shoes If I getreferred to you or if I find you
online or some other mechanismwhere I end up on your site, I
see currently business growth,blueprint growth, cadence and
website care in an audit.
I'm wondering where does thisstrategy session come into play?

(11:00):
Is a call a strategy sessionfor you?
Yeah, essentially so.

Racheal (11:07):
This is what we would consider to be a paid discovery
process, and I started doingthis and sort of refined it.
I know you and Shannon had atraining or a podcast interview
or something where you wentthrough some of that process.
A lot of that came from justthe experimentation that we were
doing and I was sharing insidethe Web Designer Academy.
So, and then we collaboratedand said we need to, like, put

(11:30):
this together in a way thatsomeone could repackage it and
use it.
So it starts with literallyjust an intro call.
It's just a very looselystructured open conversation.
So clients will get on a 30minute call with me and I ask
some of those questions.
The whole goal of that call isjust to get them to zoom out.
Instead of asking me for things, talk to me about your goals.

(11:53):
That's where the conversationturns, and then at the end of
that call I'll pitch okay,here's how we structure all of
our projects.
The first thing we need to do isI've got to understand your
business at a deeper levelbefore I could ever recommend
what is actually going to helpmove the needle for you, and
because we apply the investmentfor that blueprint towards any

(12:17):
implementation project that theychoose to move forward with
super low risk choice for themto make.
For the most part, our clientsare.
It's an easy yes because itfeels like it's a way to try us
on before they make the bigcommitment.
And then the real beauty of it.
I was listening to yourinterview with Austin Church

(12:37):
earlier today and he saidperceived value is really where
all of our thoughts about what'sworth it and what isn't come
from.
This is how you build that.
So now I have the chance totalk to my client in language
they understand.
I have a chance to educate themalong the way.

(12:59):
I have a chance to demonstratethat I really understand how
they work, who they serve, thedetails of their offers, all of
those things.
And by the time we get to aproposal phase, they're going.
How could I not choose them?
So it does extend the timeline,but it gives me so much

(13:23):
opportunity to buildrelationship and to educate and
to increase that perceived valuebefore they see a real number
that it has changed everythingfor my agency.

Josh (13:34):
So your business growth blueprint is your paid discovery
strategy mechanism.
It's fascinating this ideabecause there's just so many
different ways you could frameit and slap a label on it.
But I do like that.
Obviously, the proof is in thepudding with what you have going
on.
I think there's like threethings in there that are very
clear.

(13:54):
It's for their business, it'sabout growth and it's a
blueprint to get the growth fortheir business.
So is that something thatsomebody could just purchase and
dive right into If, like, if Iwere referred to you and I was
like I'm ready to just get going, or do you require an intro
call to see if they're even afit before they would get to a
paid discovery?

Racheal (14:14):
It's out there, uh, on our website.
No one's ever just booked it.
I mean, at this point we'recharging $2,000 for that
engagement, for that 90 minutecall and the strategy that comes
on the backside of it.
So I think in most cases,business owners are going to
want to at least have aconversation first, and so it's
available.

(14:34):
No one's ever used it, but itis a nice reference point
because there are plenty oftimes where we have that initial
conversation.
We've done an intro call andit's going to take a little time
for someone to get their headaround that idea, so they can
come back to those pages on ourwebsite and read more and make a
decision later.

Josh (14:53):
Is it an easier sell to when it's something that's
public facing and it looks likea packaged up product that has
like results and testimonialsand stuff.

Racheal (15:02):
I think so, yeah, I think it makes a big difference
because it feels more tangibleto the client, and this is
another reason that I love doingstrategy first.
Clients don't buy what theydon't understand.
You've got to make it clearwhat they get and what they
don't get, and so having a nameand a framework for the

(15:23):
deliverables and a timeline andall of those things, I think
just builds a little bit oftrust so that they don't feel
like it's you know, you'remaking something up and you're
just going to ask me questionsand I have to pay you $2,000 for
that.
Like that doesn't quite compute.
So I think the packaging doeshelp.

Josh (15:39):
Do you have any sort of weed out or funnel before
clients can book that firstlittle half an hour call with
you?
Or has that not been an issuewith the way you're attracting
clients?

Racheal (15:50):
I mean we do have an inquiry form there that I think.
Just there's a couple ofquestions that we ask in a
certain way to make it prettyobvious if this is for you or
not.
So we ask about how long you'vebeen in business, the size of
your team, some things like that.
So I think there are some verysubtle hints.

(16:11):
Occasionally I'll still do acall with somebody that's not
quite the right fit and you knowI can just sort of navigate
that through the conversation.
But for the most part it'spretty open ended.

Josh (16:27):
Did you realize?
When you packaged up yourstrategy sessions into a
blueprint, did you have thethought that a lot of us have
where, as web designers, wherewe're like whether it's a
strategy session or amaintenance plan or something
else where we're like, god dangit.
Why didn't I do this, like fiveyears ago?
Because I'm already doing.
This is the big revelation forweb designers that they haven't
had it yet.
You're already doing strategy,so you made as may as well

(16:48):
follow your lead, rachel, andmake it a product that could be
ideal for paid discovery, causeyou're already doing it as a
part of it anyway.

Racheal (16:55):
Yeah, absolutely I.
I started doing this.
There was a.
There was a web designerAcademy mastermind call and
Shannon's Next Level group abouttwo years ago, where I've got
the video.
I'm like hair in the messy bunlooking just exacerbated and I
was like I hate my process and Iwant to completely rip my

(17:16):
business apart and do somethingelse, because I hate everything
about the way these projects aregoing.
At the time I had threepackages and they had way too
little definition, so everyproject was pulling teeth to get
the content you need from theclient.
I mean, it's the same storyevery web designer can tell.

(17:38):
But my problem was, as a persontrained to identify
opportunities and gaps, Icouldn't hold myself back from
doing that and just deliver thefive-page website.
I was always saying, oh, but wecould do this and it would be
this much more powerful orwhatever.
So I think I spent as muchenergy trying not to deliver

(18:02):
those things as I would have tojust learn how to sell it in the
first place.
And so when I got to a placewhere I figured out I'm just
going to do the really custom,complex things that serve more
advanced businesses and I wantto make sure that I have all the

(18:24):
detail I need before we beginso that I can price it correctly
, so that I can actually createestimates on the timeline that
are close to reality, so that Ican give the business owner the
runway they need to pull allthat stuff together and get it
to me in the first place.
I mean, you talk to a businessowner who's doing well, they

(18:44):
can't get stuff turned around toyou in four days.
They need some time.
So I needed to understand thescope of the project at a much
more granular level way earlierin the process to change things
for me, and that's kind of whatcreated this paid discovery
offer.

Josh (19:03):
What did?
What would the first iterationlook like?
What was your price point?
Was it messy in the beginning?
To try to figure out how toconstrain it, cause this is,
like you know, you're gettinginto potentially business
consulting, digital marketingterritory.
How did what were the uh, whatwere the first few bumps in the
road with offering strategy?

Racheal (19:20):
Well, I will say this I had already kind of made a
decision that I didn't like theway it felt to go through a
website project and hand it overto a client and then just set
them free.
It felt like it just didn'thave the right ending to the
story that I wanted.
So I already knew I was goingto expand my scope of services

(19:43):
when I started doing this, and Ithink that's probably an
important point to consider.
Not that it can't work for aproject based offer, but I do
think part of my motivation wasthat I wanted to go a little bit
deeper with the clients that Ihad and it felt like sometimes I
would deliver them thisbeautiful strategic website and

(20:04):
it was like a sword too heavy towield.
They didn't know how to drivetraffic to it.
They didn't understand how toeven service the leads that came
through, so I wanted to offerthem a more comprehensive
solution.
So that's part of why I landedhere.
But literally the first one waslike this is going to be an

(20:27):
experiment.
I was very candid with my clientand thank God for Laura, who
was the first person to say yesto this, because she is really
scrappy.
She's very open and transparent.
She's also very invested in herown success and those are the
best clients for this kind of anoffer.
So I was like this is $500.

(20:54):
I'm going to create a plan.
I didn't know much more to sayother than that it probably took
me 20 to 30 hours to puttogether that first strategy,
because I designed a deck and Ihad to come up with a framework
and all of those things.
But she was an immediate yes.
She chose my highest packageand if you know anything about
Shannon's pricing strategy, yougot to offer three options, so

(21:16):
she chose the most expensive one.
I sold a $38,000 project off ofthat first $500 paid discovery
Highest project I'd ever sold.

Josh (21:26):
Worth the 20 to 30 hours.

Racheal (21:28):
She spent another $22,000 over the next 18 months
and she's still a client todayon a monthly retainer.
So that's, that's the clientrelationship that this process
creates.
Um, and there's a lot ofnuances.
I've learned along the way tomake it work that way, but uh,
it's really powerful if it, ifit fits you and your clients

(21:49):
well.

Josh (21:50):
So 500 on the first one.
You're at 2k.
Now how long did it take, didyou?
Did you raise your pricegradually, or did you get to a
point where you're like, okay,this could be a $2,000 thing?

Racheal (22:00):
Um, it took hiring my first team member to go.
Rachel, you can't charge $500for this anymore, so I'm as
guilty as the next person whenit comes to undervaluing what we
offer.
But it's gotten easier andeasier because, as I've gotten
feedback from these clients whoare going through the process

(22:21):
saying like, oh my gosh, this isso valuable and now we feel
like we have clarity on what weneed to do, whether they use me
or not, I think that just thatpiece is so.
It's just very empowering tothe client themselves.
You get enough of thosecomments and you start to feel
okay about the money.

Josh (22:41):
You hit a buzzword right there, which is clarity.
I think we had a web designerpro member who framed her calls
as clarity calls at one pointand I actually liked that idea,
just because that is what it is.
I mean, the value of clarity onyour business is incredibly
underrated and very hard to puta price tag on.

(23:02):
But the value of that, I mean,as you just mentioned, I feel
like it's.
I think, as web designers Idon't know if you've experienced
this, but you feel like thework on a project begins when
you start to build out thewebsite and get behind a screen
and type, but it actually is somuch more on a call or in a
meeting, when you're talkingabout the ideas and the strategy

(23:23):
and everything that you I'msure go through in your
blueprint.
There is so much value thathappens there Maybe well over I
don't know 50-60% of the projectif it's going to be successful
that happens before you even getbehind the keys.
So I just wanted to accent thatpoint and make sure every web
designer knows how much value ishappening before you actually

(23:46):
build the website, cause it'shuge.

Racheal (23:49):
Absolutely and truly the theme of how we run our
business today.
Because we come right out ofthis blueprint into a retainer
model service where now we dothis on a cadence we the client
chooses their, um, theirfrequency, so we might meet with
them for another strategysession once a month, we might
meet with them every other month, every quarter, and we work

(24:11):
through the blueprint we've laidout.
So after that strategy iscreated, we itemize it into.
These are all the tasks thathave to happen and they get to
choose how quickly they want towork through that list, which of
those things in the scope theywant to tackle.
And we have a pretty flexiblearrangement where, if they're
working with us on a monthlybasis, they may pick the top 10

(24:34):
and then think that we're goingto work through the rest and
come back to us the next calland say I've got this new
opportunity and I need a funnelfor this now, and so we can
prioritize those things.
So the whole theme is do thehard work upfront, get really,
really specific about whatyou're creating and why, and
then everything downstream getsso much easier.

(24:57):
The client knows what to expect, you know how much time it's
going to take, you can plan outthe timeline, you know what
tools you need.
So it's a lot of Be lazy in thework that comes later and work
really diligently at thebeginning.

Josh (25:14):
Timeline and the runway of these blueprints and these
strategy sessions.
I found that to be a hiccup forsome web designers because it's
I've I've said more recentlylike if for anyone who's
dabbling into this or maybeputting their toe in the water,
I would probably personally dolike a 90 day sprint or
something that could be a littlemore achievable to build some
confidence.

(25:34):
I mean, how far are you guysgoing out?
Do you look at like an annualtype plan?
Do you go further?
What's your typical road orrunway and timeline for these
blueprints?

Racheal (25:44):
So today and I'll say really small agency we max out
at about six clients and as ofright now that's as many as I
want.
On this model we still dowebsite maintenance.
That's a lot lower lift, but werequire a six-month commitment.
That's really about the amountof time we need to help anybody

(26:04):
create measurable resultsanyways.
And then it rolls into just amonth-to-month arrangement where
the client can cancel or downthrottle or whatever they need
to do.
When they need to do that, Itell them.
I literally say this in mydelivery of the proposal.
We just assume you'd like towork with us forever.
So this plan is going toauto-renew at the end of your

(26:27):
six-month commitment and thenwe're going to let you know what
your options are to changethings, whether you want to slow
down or speed up or whateveryou need to do, at the end of
that six months.
But until you fire us, we'rehere to stay because we're an
extension of your team.
So we really do get inside thebusiness almost as more of a

(26:47):
fractional marketing departmentin some ways.
But I think you could.
You could maintain only thescope of a website and still
offer the same thing very easily.
It's similar to what you'vetalked about a lot with your
growth plans.
It's staying in front of theclient with those ideas, because
they don't have the expertiseor the experience to think of
them on their own.

Josh (27:05):
Yeah, I mean, in your blueprint you're again paid
discovery strategy session.
They're all kind of the samething.
Is really the start of a growthplan in some way, especially if
you're doing a box of likemiscellaneous services that you
don't want to.
You know, have clients justchoosing an add-on randomly
every month.
If you want to put it into anaction plan, I think that's
definitely the way to go,especially if you're doing a

(27:27):
little more than just websites,depending on how far you're
going.
Now, going back to the idea ofconstraints, like, how far are
you guys going with yourblueprints as far as giving
strategies for doing things onsocial media or other marketing,
versus, like, what you'reimplementing?
Like, how far do you gobasically outside of the website

(27:50):
with your I?

Racheal (27:51):
stay squarely within our scope of services.
So, um, when and there's a lotthat we do but SEO we do some
social, but it has to be kind ofin conjunction with with
content marketing on your site.
So we do sort of an SEO firstapproach.
We might do some SEO, uh, blogposts, that kind of thing, and

(28:11):
then social as a repurpose, thecontent we've created.
We often help with a lot ofclient experience and CRM kind
of things.
So sales assets and leadmagnets and things like that
that our clients need help with.
So it all kind of everything.
Everything kind of begins withthe website and it's all the

(28:32):
pieces that connect to it thatwe can help with.
But I tend to say yes to a lotof things when it comes to this,
because if I can figure out anew problem to solve, I get a
little excited.
So our, our scope of servicesexpands based on the needs of
our clients in a lot of casesservices expands based on the
needs of our clients.

Josh (28:53):
in a lot of cases, and I was going to say I mean, the big
thing you mentioned just alittle bit ago was that you're
currently working with what halfa dozen right now ongoing.
I mean that's huge.
It's very different, Like ifyou're, if you only have a half
dozen clients, I would imagine,with a little team sport behind
you, the implementation of allthis stuff, you could manage
quite a few miscellaneousservices, especially if it's a
part of the blueprint masterplan and you're going month to

(29:13):
month.
But if you have a hundredclients, I imagine offering, you
know, nine differentoptionality categories could be.
That's where you probably runinto trouble with this kind of
stuff.

Racheal (29:24):
Yeah, I think I think scaling for us will look a lot
like um, taking the strategiesthat we use and packaging them
in a way that a business ownermight be able to do some DIY
following some of the samemethodology that we do.
I also think I have a dream forsome days, sort of like building
almost an apprenticeshipprogram where I can mentor

(29:46):
strategists to do this and then,if I've got three or four
strategists now, we can multiplythose six clients by those
three or four strategists, withsmall teams that handle
implementation.
I don't know if I'll ever dothat or not, but it's fun to
think about.
So, yeah, I do think you haveto know what you want your
business to look like, and Ithink the paid discovery and the

(30:07):
strategy session can lead intoall sorts of offers.
Some of them could be veryscalable.
You could have pretty pre-builtwebsites and still offer this
piece to help educate yourclient on what it is and how you
use it and see a lot of success.
For us, we just like being allup in your business and knowing

(30:31):
your dog's name and your kid'sbirthdays and all of that stuff.
That's what high level thingLike, like you still have

(30:52):
maintenance plan clients.

Josh (30:53):
I look at my old model and I'm like I could have
absolutely offered this to likefour or five clients and I know
some of the clients I wasworking with probably would have
you know paid several thousanddollars a month to do some more
marketing.
In fact, they were hiring othermarketing people and digital
marketing folks to do that andthen I would work with them to
do onsite website stuff.

(31:14):
But yeah, all that to say, if Iwere interested in doing League
Magnet, email nurture sequencesand copy and some of these
other things, it could just bean upsell and you could do it
quality over quantity and kindof few and far between.
But then have your base, otherrecurring revenue streams with
maintenance plans and hostingand other stuff.

(31:34):
So I think there's a lot ofopportunity for this is kind of
what I'm getting at Now.
When you started, what was thebreadth of your scope of
services?
Like, were you doing it all youknow four or five years ago in
a way, or did you?
Were you ever like I'm nottouching SEO or I'm not touching
copy or I'm not touching socialmedia?
Like, did you ever hire stuffout to have partners or did you

(31:57):
pretty much go all in on youknow being all up in your
client's business.

Racheal (32:00):
Yeah Well, I like to be in control, so I sort of took
over from the beginning.
But at the beginning it wasmostly just copy and the website
build.
We would do like a very simplefunnel and help with that
initial email welcome sequenceor something like that.
So that was kind of where itended.
I started offering SEO and thenhad to go learn it real quick.

(32:23):
So that's sort of how I tend tooperate.
When I want to learn somethingnew, I just tell a client I'll
do it the best SEOers.

Josh (32:29):
That's the strategy for all the best SEOers.
You sell an SEO plan.
You're like I, better Googlesome stuff.

Racheal (32:35):
I better figure this out, yes.
So I mean, that's how I've donemy entire business.
I say a thing out loud and nowit's real, so I better make it
happen.
And that's how this processeven evolved.
But that very first blueprintwas a full brand redesign.
So she had some existingbranding that needed to evolve.

(32:56):
So we did that.
I don't I'm not a graphicdesigner so that I always hire
out.
Now we have a team member thathandles it.
But then it was that building anew website altogether, which
included rewriting all of thecopy.
We did a whole deep dive inmessaging and then we built kind
of like a course platform intoher website as well.

(33:19):
So that was where the scopeended at the time.
And then I offered her SEOafter that and we started doing
some content marketing.
So it just evolves as theclient needs evolve.

Josh (33:31):
How do you the scope of, like the ongoing work?
How do you manage that withclients?
Like if a client's paying youmaybe a thousand, two or 3000 or
more per month and they're like, hey, we want to do something
this month but it's out of scope, do you do an add-on or
retainer of our type options?

(33:51):
Do you just do an additionalproject that's tacked onto that,
or would you adjust the planand bump things a month or two
out, like getting nitty grittyhere?
How do you?
How do you handle that?

Racheal (34:01):
Well, okay, you're going to get the really nerdy
version of me here.
Um, I stole everything I knewabout a software development
life cycle from my corporatedays and built it into our
client process.
So that blueprint basicallybecomes a backlog of all the
things that we want to implementand we call it our feature
wishlist, because clients don'tknow what a backlog is.

(34:21):
And we maintain that for ourclients and we keep it in
priority order.
And every time we meet withthem we're asking what are your
new opportunities?
Where are your pain points?
What's going on in yourbusiness?
And we, you know, we kind ofadjust things there and then
together we plan a sprint forthat time between now and our
next session, and so there's alot of opportunity for them to

(34:45):
introduce new ideas, to say, oh,that thing we talked about six
months ago doesn't really apply,we can take it off the list.
We also go through every singleone of those and write up
detailed requirements for eachthing.
So when I say I'm going todesign your homepage, we've
talked about the outline for thecopy.
We've talked about what youwant your hero section to look
like.
We have those conversations onthe strategy call.

(35:07):
So by the time anybody clicks amouse or types on a keyboard,
the client knows exactly whatthey're getting back.
So our revisions are veryminimal.
Our clients are very happybecause they had a ton of input
at the beginning.
So when I say be lazy in theimplementation and really
diligent in the planning, that'swhat I'm talking about and it

(35:29):
allows us to be flexible withour scope, because we have those
conversations, we put anestimate on it, we know what our
capacity for the month is.
We make those decisionstogether.
Everybody's happy.

Josh (35:39):
So are you writing in pen, as it were, you know the next
month or two with those tasksand those implementations, but
maybe pencil the you know the,the last few months of a of a
six month cycle or or something,just in case those do after a
quarterly call or something incase they shift around.

Racheal (35:56):
Yeah, I mean there are definitely some constraints
around.
When the flexibility sort ofends right, there's a point
where we say, okay, this isofficially the list for this
month and if you want to make achange you may have to forfeit
some of what you've planned.
And if you want to make achange, you may have to forfeit
some of what you've planned.
So there's some sort of hardcutoffs in terms of the planning

(36:16):
piece.
But there's always theopportunity to say, well, we
could buy a couple of extrasprint points.
So instead of estimating thingsin hours, we sort of size them
by points and so they couldthrottle up a little bit and pay
a little extra fee to get more.
They could defer something tothe next time.

(36:37):
So we've got a few options,levers we can pull to be
flexible, but all within theconstraints of what works for us
and our team, and we'reexceptionally clear about what
those boundaries are at thebeginning of the project.
So the client's got a reallyclear picture.

Josh (36:55):
Big question care plans, because you've got two sources
of recurring revenue with.
I'm just going to call yourcadence, your ongoing services.
I'm just going to lump it intomy framework, which is just a
growth plan.
Yeah, it absolutely is.
Yeah.
So you have your strategysession, your pay discovery,
that's the blueprint.
The implementation ongoing isyour growth plan, which those

(37:15):
are.
You know, with big websiteredesigns and the amount of work
you're doing, I imagine thoseare with six clients, those are
probably pretty meaty.
Higher end monthly plans.
You have your lower endsubscription offer, which is
your maintenance plans, yourcare plans.
Big question when do you offerthose?
How do you offer those?
Are those included if they arein an ongoing growth style plan?

(37:36):
Is that something separate?
Is it a fallback questions?
Six questions in once.
But how do you?
How do you do this?

Racheal (37:43):
So if, uh, for our clients that are on the growth
plan is just included, we dotheir hosting, we do all their
maintenance, anything that Icould.
If it's not a new feature, ifit's not new functionality, if
it's not new content, it'scovered.
And then the website care planis basically a downgrade from
there and we offer two tiers.
One's just maintenance.
We're going to keep yourplugins updated, we're going to

(38:05):
take care of your hosting, we'regoing to deal with
vulnerabilities, but it's justkeep the site healthy.
The second one is unlimitedcontent updates.
So you fill out a form or sendus an email hey, I need this new
blog post updated.
As long as you provide thecontent, we're going to take
care of the rest.
The way that we work thatprocess is we've got a team

(38:26):
member who works through all ofthose tasks in order on
Wednesdays, and so when yousubmit your thing, you know that
, unless you tell me it's reallyurgent and we'll do what we can
, you're going to get it back onWednesday.
And it works really wellbecause clients feel like
they're really well taken careof.
We know what to expect.

(38:46):
It's really profitable becausewe plan for them to have a lot
of requests and they have some,but not nearly as much as we've
planned for in our capacity andthe price that we're charging,
so it works out really well.

Josh (39:02):
What's the percentage of your business?
It does need to be exact, butI'm just curious on what amount
of business is your care plansversus your growth plans?
I would imagine your growthplans by the sound of business.
Is your, your care plans versusyour growth plans?
I would imagine your growthplans by the sound of it.
Is is your main thing, but areyour maintenance plans, your
care plans?
Are they a pretty big baselineto your business?

Racheal (39:21):
They're.
I'm trying to do some quickmath.
I mean at this point they mightrepresent 15 ish percent of our
recurring revenue.
Most of it is in our growthplan option, but it's a natural
transition for a lot of ourclients.
So it's not unusual that ourclients will be going through a

(39:43):
phase where they're doing somepretty aggressive growth.
They're trying to heavilymarket something new or they're
building a brand new website ordoing a brand refresh.
You know they're ripping thingsapart and creating something
new.
There's a really intense periodof strategizing and
implementation there at thebeginning and then they'll sort
of naturally taper off.

(40:04):
A lot of those will end up inin one of our all-inclusive
website care plans where we'remore in maintenance mode.
Um so there's it.
Really it's been about a twoyear timeline where we've had
these two offers sort of workingtogether.
I think in the future thatmaintenance piece will probably
represent a bigger piece of thepie.

(40:24):
Um, but today it's.
It's probably, you know, 15 or20%.

Josh (40:29):
Gotcha, do you have limited capacity or spots for
your ongoing plans, like yourgrowth plan?

Racheal (40:36):
No, not at this point I honestly, if I get to a place
where we're at capacity, I'dprobably just bring on another
team member to help with thatvolume.

Josh (40:46):
Gotcha, I was just thinking like, if you have your
support plan clients, what anamazing pool of folks to be able
to upsell to and to help out.
You know, if you have yoursupport plan clients, what an
amazing pool of folks to be ableto upsell to and to help out.

Racheal (40:54):
You know, when you have capacity yeah, this is somewhat
unrelated, but I just um, Iwent to the hub spot conference
last year and, uh, I went andlistened to I couldn't even
remember who the speaker was,but I I listened to a talk about
the whole SaaS industry andanyways, it was a lot of stuff

(41:16):
about go-to-market strategy.
But there was one little nuggetof wisdom about the volume of
recurring revenue that comesfrom your existing clients who
have already made one purchase,and it became so obvious to me
that serving the people who arealready in the mix, who are

(41:37):
already in our client portfolio,was going to be twice as
fruitful as trying to go findnew clients.
And so that's part of thestrategy behind all of this.
But out of that I said you knowwhat?
I'm going to start sending justa monthly client-only
newsletter to share interestingthings that are happening,
updates on what's going on inour business.
We talk a little aboutmarketing, we talk a little bit

(41:58):
about just general businessstuff, and so I started doing
that.
In January of this year, threeof our website care plan clients
who are just maintenance superquiet have popped up and said,
hey, we need help with thisthing.
So I've got now got theselittle sort of side projects
just serving the people we werealready serving at a higher

(42:20):
level, just because we were topof mind again, like they started
seeing my name show up in theirinbox again.
So it's nice to have thathappening where we can just
continue to serve them over timewhen they need.

Josh (42:33):
I think that is the smartest business model,
nowadays more than ever, whichis some form of tiered level of
clients and I'm experiencingthis right now in pro We've
talked about Shannon Shannon andI recently talked about this to
where, similarly, she'slearning from her top folks
somebody like you, rachel, whohas been in her top folks,
somebody like you, rachel, whohas been in her top tier

(42:53):
programs, her mastermind stuff,the next level stuff, and
similarly for me, with mycoaching tier members.
I know most of them by name, Iknow their businesses, I'm
checking in on them and that allfilters down to, in my case, my
community.
And then I have a tier now justfor course access, and I'm
starting to nurture them andnudge them to jump up to the

(43:16):
community and coaching whenthey're ready.
But same thing works with aservice model, like you're doing
with web design, which is thefew folks you're really in
intense relationships with asfar as your clients go.
That filters down to the otherpeople who are on your plan, on
your newsletter, and then maybeeven leads who are maybe even
past clients, who did a websitewith you a decade ago but maybe

(43:38):
could hear from you again.
So I just really like that.
I guess it's like a synergytype approach with like
intensive clients who you'rereally doing a lot with and you
go down those next couple oftiers.
So I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause I think it's a.
I think it's a missedopportunity in web design it.

Racheal (43:56):
It feels like it has been the key to financial
stability for us, like it's whatit's kind of like the the fuel
for the recurring revenue thatwas going to let me sleep at
night.
You know what I mean.
Like when I first left mycorporate job, I had no idea
that I was like emotionallyjumping off a cliff, because I

(44:17):
just really liked that paycheckcoming in every two weeks and,
um, just you know, having thatthat steady relationship with a
handful of clients that continueto trust you and come back, um,
it made all the difference injust how I felt about business
in general.
So I think it's a really goodapproach.

Josh (44:37):
Did that feeling of stability with being full-time
solopreneur business owner?
Did it help having a pool ofclients who were not your top
tier a few half dozen clientsbut were still in your circle,
still in your newsletter andstill having, like, a qualified
pool of clients to potentiallyupsell to?

Racheal (44:59):
Yeah, I mean 100%, Especially when you can get to a
place where those kinds ofoffers that are not as hands-on,
not as time intensive can coverthe basics.
And now I've got the freedom toexperiment with these new
offers.
I don't know that I could havetaken the risk of saying I'm not
even going to give you pricinguntil you pay me if I didn't

(45:22):
have some of that to lean on.
So I do think, I believewholeheartedly that this kind of
approach and this strategy canwork for anyone.
But there's a lot of freedom inbeing able to move a little
faster, take a few more riskswhen you've got something
cooking in the background that'sgoing to keep things stable.

Josh (45:46):
If somebody is like, listen, we just want a website
we don't really need.
Yeah, we know strategy is apart of it, but we're not
looking for like a long-termcommitment.
Would you offer to work withthem and just say like,
basically we'll just take ourgrowth plan and just make this
like a six month payment plantype thing for the bill?
Do you?
Do you ever make exceptionslike that With this type of

(46:07):
model?

Racheal (46:07):
Yet, Um, I mean, I reserve the right to change my
mind, but I think I just enjoythe process too much of
brainstorming and creating andhelping clients see and
understand new opportunitiesthat the copy paste version of

(46:28):
website design is just not forme.
So I think in most cases Iwould probably say you don't,
you don't need to pay my ratesto get that, so let me give you
some names.
It's probably how I would endthat conversation Well done.

Josh (46:43):
Yeah, that's cool With these.
Oh, I totally wanted to makesure I mentioned this because I
was checking out your blueprintpage.
You have a refund policy.

Racheal (46:54):
I sure do.

Josh (46:55):
So I have mixed feelings on refunds.
I would love to hear yourfeelings on refunds.
I'm guessing it's not an issuejust by talking to you for a
little while and knowing that,yeah, you've got this.
But also I imagine the folkswho are going to invest $2K
initially are probably not goingto be the refund folks.
Am I on track with saying that?

Racheal (47:16):
100%.
No one has ever asked me for arefund.
It's mostly there to justremove that one little question
mark in our client's mind wherethey go.
I don't fully understand whatI'm getting and I do think, as
I've had enough practice and hadenough of these conversations

(47:37):
now, that I can make it a lotmore tangible today than I did
in the very beginning.
If clients don't say, yes, Iwant to do this from that first
call, I actually send themseveral follow-up emails.
Some of them include examplesof past strategy presentations,
so it becomes a little moreconcrete for them as we continue
to nurture that relationshipand that has helped a lot.

(47:59):
But that refund, I would behappy to do it.
I mean, I know I've done thework.
Um, I'm I'm pretty confident inthe strategy that I deliver.
The response I receive back isalmost always like you know,
blow my hair back.
Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
I can't believe this plan ishere Like it's a piece minute

(48:30):
call right.

Josh (48:30):
And then I mean you're, you're detailing, I am I don't
know exactly the specifics ofthe plan, like how custom are
you creating, like custom slidedeck for every client?
So you're do you have aframework and a template you use
?
But then you put their brandingand their colors and really
match it.
I actually do it in my branding.

Racheal (48:45):
I would say the most powerful piece of it is we.
We do have a framework.
So the first section of the itis we do have a framework.
So the first section of thepresentation is sort of just a
summary of what I understandabout your business.
So we pull out a couple of sortof pillars of their unique
value proposition.
We don't say those wordsbecause clients don't often

(49:05):
understand them, but that's whatit is.
We pull out a few of theirideal client profiles and talk
about okay, here are really thethree kinds of people that you
serve.
This is revolutionary to mostbusiness owners.
They haven't done this work, sofor me to hand it to them on a
silver platter and they go oh,she put into words what I've

(49:26):
never been able to nail down.
So they see that reflected backto them and then I say, okay,
here are the four things thatyou do really well.
This is why someone would pickyou over your competition and it
resonates.
It probably didn't matteranything else.
I say I'm already hired at thatpoint.
And then the rest of it is just.
You do have to find the balancebetween too much detail and not

(49:49):
enough, because you can veryeasily overwhelm your clients
with this strategy.
So that has been a science tofigure out.
But from there you know it'susually three recommendations.
We break it down to make ittangible enough for them to
understand.
I presented it in the videowith a slide deck.
They get the PDF.
We do a follow-up call, so I doliterally have a lot of

(50:13):
research and thought put into it.
There's always overlap, sothere's going to be similarities
between everyone, so there's alot that I can templatize and
repurpose.
I also trained a custom GPT towrite most of it for me, using
examples from past presentations, and I've trained my AI to do
most of the work, so it's got alot easier.

(50:34):
The first one took forever.

Josh (50:37):
Are you recording through like zoom?
Are you taking, are they, is itdoing summary notes and then
you feed that into your GPT?

Racheal (50:43):
Yeah, yeah, we always transcribe our calls.
Um, and I will.
I will often like kind ofdownload my thoughts and then
provide the RGPT, the, thetranscript, and say, okay, what
other smart things did I say onthis call that I don't remember,
and um, and then I kind of goback and forth with it until we
get down to like, okay, theseare really like the three kind

(51:05):
of main projects orrecommendations we want to make.

Josh (51:08):
I mean, what a genius and prime example of how like the
fear of AI taking over webdesigners, it's not.
It's the perfect example of howto use AI, particularly in this
case, as almost like a businessconsultant role.
I mean, I would imagine too,clients probably view you very

(51:31):
quickly as a legit like businesspartner in a lot of ways,
versus just a task taker who'slike hey, I need you to make
this button green.

Racheal (51:38):
Yeah, we're extremely prescriptive.
I don't ask you what you want.
I don't ask you what you wantit to say.
I don't ask you how you want itto look.
In most cases, I give a reallynice speech about how the right
shade of blue won't make youmore money, and so I think
clients who want to work with mewant me to just say here's how
you make it happen, and they'regoing to tweak things a little

(52:00):
bit.
But for the most part they'relike yes, ma'am, I'll do what
you say, and it works out reallywell for all of us.

Josh (52:09):
Well, I'm glad we unpacked what's in your blueprint as
well, because I'm sure when wetalked about $2,000 initially,
I'm sure a lot of web designersare like I'm charging $2,000 for
websites, I can't imagine justdoing a discovery call for that.
But it's much more than that.
You're talking 90 minutesinitially.
That's off of a half an hourintro call, more than likely.

(52:31):
You're doing a lot of customwork with the transcriptions,
your own personalized chat GPTIs it chat GPT that you're using
?
So you've got some training inthat.
You've got bona fide resultsand strategy and everything else
that you're working on that'sfed in there.
You've got a truly and you'redoing a follow-up video.
So it's a true blueprint, atrue roadmap Um, that's another

(52:54):
term that I've heard somethingsimilar call, which is basically
like a digital roadmap ordigital strategy roadmap and
then you're following up with anadditional 30 minute call,
right?
Is that to answer questionsbefore?
Is that kind of your?
If you're, is that kind of?

Racheal (53:06):
your sales call-date.
That's the sales call.
That's the sales call.
Yeah, and pro tip, I talk aboutthis literally every time I
talk about this subject Schedulethat call before you get off
the strategy session, when yourclient already has it on their
calendar and they're committedto it.
You will see the conversationall the way through and then you
kind of just get to play therole of let me guide you to the
right decision for you, insteadof having to be a salesperson.

(53:36):
You get to already sort of playthe partner role at that point,
because they've committed toseeing the conversation all the
way to the end.
So never had anybody justdisappear and ghost me, because
we're really careful about howwe handle the followup.

Josh (53:45):
Love that idea.
I'm just, I'm totally going torip you off, I'm going to apply
this.

Racheal (53:51):
It works so well, that's great.

Josh (53:53):
Well, I'm going to apply this to what I'm doing, cause
I'm doing just on the side, likeI probably shouldn't mention
this publicly.
But here we go.
I am kind of hidden, like, asrequested, doing some consulting
about memberships and communitybuilding, with just what I'm,
what I've learned with buildingmine, and I typically just do an
hour consult call and I followup with the transcription and

(54:14):
just kind of get my personaltake on a bit of an action plan
based off what we talked about.
But I like this idea of settingup a follow-up call after that
and beefing up that package.
Right now I do that for $1,000,which is basically an hour with
me and then back up a littleaction plan.
But I could totally make that a$2,000 to $3,000 blueprint in a

(54:36):
way of my own to make it and toget more results from that,
because it could include alittle follow up with an
additional video.
Yeah, do it.
This model, just like a lot ofweb design services, can work in
different areas of business anddifferent entrepreneurial
endeavors outside of just webdesign too.

Racheal (54:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
We just launched a coursethat's intended for service
providers of any kind.
I think if you serve anotherbusiness, the scope of what you
do doesn't matter a whole lot.
This process brings so muchtrust and clarity to the client
that it makes the sales processfeel so different and I just
feel like I'm helping youinstead of like I'm selling you,

(55:15):
something, which I think mademe feel, you know, a hundred
times more confident abouthaving these conversations.

Josh (55:22):
Well, I think clients will probably get that too with the,
specifically the follow-up,because it's not like you just
took their two grand and you'relike okay, great call, see you
later.

Racheal (55:31):
It's like no let's like .

Josh (55:32):
Let's work on the next step on this.
We want to.
It's not just a peace out.
You're never going to hear fromme again.
I changed my email.
No, you're, you're going tofollow up.
I think that breeds a lot oftrust, initially right there,
which is an additional follow-upstep.
Yeah, absolutely.

Racheal (55:46):
I tell my clients this all the time.
We are just a vehicle for yoursuccess.
Like you are investing in you,I'm just the, I'm just the
mechanism to get you there.
So it makes it feel so muchless transactional.

Josh (56:01):
That's awesome.
Are you a podcast host?
Have you done a podcast before?
Not yet, but it's on my.

Racheal (56:07):
It's on my list because I can't help myself.

Josh (56:09):
It was a total pro segue, because we're at the top of the
hour here.
I was going to ask about ifthere was some way we could see
your blueprints and see we'vetalked about it, but I'm sure
I'm not the only one who'scurious about like what does all
this look like?
What are the details, the nittygritty, the implementation.

(56:34):
So tell us about the coursethat you are.

Racheal (56:35):
Well, are you cooking it up?
Currently?
This is going to come out.
It launched last week so as ofthe time of this recording, it
was a brand new baby.
I think by the time this airswe should be pretty close, if
not already, in a place whereyou can get access to it at any
time.
So I would say, if you're justlooking for more information on
how to do this process at thehigh level, we've got a free

(56:59):
workshop called Get Paid foryour Plan.
You can go togetpaidforyourplancom to get
there and that on-demandworkshop is going to work you
through, at least at a highlevel, most of what we do here.
If you want to just steal all mystuff and rip it off, with my
permission, literally everythingwe do, down to every client

(57:19):
email template, our pricingcalculator, how we scope out a
project, our presentationtemplates.
You even get my fancy AI GPTthat I have trained to create
all of your assets.
That's in our new course calledthe Growth Discovery Blueprint
and, like I said, it's availablefor I think, for any service

(57:40):
provider could find a way to usethis model.
So all of our resources it'smostly templates and tools and
things.
There's some video training forme to work you through our
process and how we do it, andthere's some nuances to the
communication around this withyour clients that I've just
learned the hard way, so I'msharing those in the course as
well.
But if you're interested,that's the.
That's the fast track togetting started on how to do

(58:02):
this without having to figure itout yourself.

Josh (58:05):
I am literally signing up for this for myself right now.
So I am on your list and Ican't wait to check that out,
and I will.
Obviously we'll have thatlinked in the show notes for
your episode here, rachel.
I might have to get you in WebCenter Pro so we can have a
teaser of this.

Racheal (58:21):
Listen anytime, I would love help.
Yeah, you can tell I get alittle fired up Like I just do
this part for fun.
We love to fire.

Josh (58:33):
And I love when look, I love when people are fired up
about implementation too,because this kind of thing I
feel like a lot of web designersget to it eventually, when they
shift from artist and designerto like business consultant
owner and then you realize, likethis is, quite frankly, this is
where the money is and this iswhere this on well, this is
where the results are.
I mean a nice website, like youmentioned, the blue there's.
I don't want to devalue greatdesign and artistry, but I

(59:00):
imagine that's, like you know,lesser of a talking point for
you compared to the goals of thegroup.

Racheal (59:08):
Yeah, I mean, we're working with clients who already
assume we're going to be ableto give them that Right.
So great design is extremelyimportant, especially for the
clients that I'm serving.
Most of them are in very visualindustries.
That's very important.
It's still secondary tostrategy.

Josh (59:25):
Boom.
What a way to cap it off.
Well, rachel, this has beenfreaking awesome.
So glad Shannon connected usand really, really pumped up and
inspired by what you're up to.
Like you said, I think webdesigners and the reality is a
lot of folks listening to thisare also webpreneurs, so they're
doing things on the side.
Yeah, you're totally right.
This can morph into anything,which is one reason I signed up

(59:46):
for it, because, as I'm thinkingabout consult calls and just
more endeavors in the membershipworld, I'm like, oh my gosh,
this could absolutely work onthat too.
So freaking awesome.

Racheal (59:57):
What an exciting world we live in.
This has been fun.
Thank you so much.

Josh (01:00:00):
This has been so great.
Thank you for your time.
Hey, enjoy the beach.
I'm going to be in your neck ofthe woods here very soon but,
uh, you know, not too far goingto be on vacation.
But the goal is to do what youdid, so I'll hit you up
separately to learn about that,so we can yeah, I got.

Racheal (01:00:14):
I have some tips for you.

Josh (01:00:15):
Okay, pumped Awesome.
We'll talk about how web designis coming to the beach.
That'd probably be like ourmost listened episodes.

Racheal (01:00:21):
You know what that sounds like?
A great workshop.

Josh (01:00:24):
I like it.
You have to do it on the beach,by the way, if you're like, the
beach has to be in thebackground.

Racheal (01:00:28):
It's going to be a little windy, but maybe we can
work it out.

Josh (01:00:30):
You can't do a workshop talking about the beach without
the beach on the background.
I feel like it's one of them.
Awesome Thanks, rachel.
Isn't it just freaking awesometo learn from absolute
professionals?
I mean, I'm not going to chargefor this podcast, but sometimes

(01:00:52):
some conversations leave mefeeling like this was a dang
masterclass that people payhundreds, sometimes thousands of
dollars for.
So I sincerely hope you are notappreciative that's not the
right word but I hope that youdon't take lightly the type of
gold that is being shared on thepodcast and these type of
conversations.
I learned so much from Racheland I'm saying that because of

(01:01:13):
the amazing guests, particularlylately, who have been sharing
some absolute money-making goldfor web designers Would love to
hear how you're going toimplement paid discovery and or
growth plans, especially thoseof you who are at a point in
your business where you'rewanting to go to that next level
and build your recurringrevenue up.
So leave us a comment.
Go to joshhallco, slash 382, todrop a comment there.

(01:01:35):
All the links that we mentionedin this episode are going to be
there.
And again, rachel has a freeworkshop for you to help you
build your paid discovery offer.
Go tocoursesgreenhousecreativeco to
pick that up completely for free.
So if you enjoyed this, Iguarantee you're going to enjoy
that because it's visual and ondemand.

(01:01:57):
You can jump into it right now.
Again, links and everythingwill be at the show notes
joshhallco slash 382.
Big thanks to Rachel, and Ishould note too I meant to
mention this at the beginning.
If you would like to see thisin more detail and be able to
ask questions to Rachel directly, I highly encourage you to jump
into Web Designer Pro on thecommunity tier, which will give

(01:02:18):
you access to our live trainings, which are live workshops.
We do with guest presenterslike Rachel every month, because
Rachel is coming in to WebDesigner Pro and going to be
sharing about this and you canpick her brain live if you join
the training as a member of WebDesigner Pro.
So just go to webdesignerprocom.
You do have to be a communitylevel member to get access to
our live workshops and training,so make sure you jump in there

(01:02:41):
and here.
In a couple months you willactually next month, I believe
we'll see Rachel and we'll talka discovery and growth plans.
All right, guys, really enjoyedthis chat.
I hope you did as well and I'llsee you on the next one.
So stay subscribed wherever youlisten to the Web Design
Business Podcast, see ya.