385 - Designing Your Business Around You with Lindsey Freeman - Web Design Business with Josh Hall

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lindsey Freeman (00:00):
If you are talking out loud to your friend,
write that on your website.
Make it sound like you, becausethat's the worst If you're
reading my website and thenwe're on this call and you're
like, whoa, that's not theperson, so that's a problem.
That's the big branding problem.
Right there there's aninconsistency.
Welcome to the Web DesignBusiness Podcast, with your host

(00:24):
, josh Hall, helping you build aweb design business that gives
you freedom and a lifestyle youlove.

Josh Hall (00:33):
Hey friend, it's great to have you here for this
episode, which is a fun one, Ithink, especially for you,
because we're really going todig into building a business
around you and your personalityand what gives you energy, what
takes energy away from you allthose things.
It's kind of interestingbecause I feel like we often
build a business purely aroundeither monetary goals or

(00:56):
something we learn from, andthose are all very valid.
But whether you do it in thethe outset of your business, or
whether you do it eventually, Ifound that everyone gets to a
point where you want to build abusiness that works for you, and
that's really the heart of whatwe're getting into in this one.
This is interesting becauseLindsey Freeman, my guest here,

(01:16):
is the owner and creativedirector of a brand called
Designed to be Human that'sdesignedtobehumancom, if you
want to, to check her out andit's really about designing your
business around you as a humanbeing.
Again, what gives you energy,what takes it away, what makes
doing business sustainablewithout burning out that's kind
of what I love about her and hermission.

(01:37):
So this was kind of fun.
It was kind of a half therapysession for me as well, because
it really drilled into whatlights me up and what I've
learned as a business owner ofof being self-employed now 16
years.
So I hope a lot of what wediscovered in this conversation
and a lot of what we talkedabout helps you as well, whether
you're early on and my goodness, would this be lovely to hear
early on or if you'reestablished and you're at a

(01:57):
point where you want to avoidburnout and maybe want to pivot
or rethink some things on howyou structured your business.
All that is covered in more.
You can go to the show notesfor this episode, which will be
found at joshhallco slash 385.
There are oodles of links thatwe talked about that can be
found there.
Lindsey also has some stuff foryou over there at joshhallco
slash 385.
So zip over there.

(02:18):
After this and without furtherado, here's our conversation
about designing your businessaround your human self.
I suppose.
Here we go, lindsay.
So good to have you on.
Before I even hit record, wegot going and I'm like, okay,
hold on, we got to record this,so let me point it over to you.

(02:38):
What did you want to ask meabout?
What is it?
The human, human design, yes.

So human design is essentially this like
energetic system.
It's the science of our aura.
We all hold a magnetic,electromagnetic frequency around
us, and so josh is talkingabout how he loves to build
community and I'm like, oh mygod, what's your human design
like?
Are you a fourth line?
Because that's all aboutnetworking and people and
relationships, which I'm deeplycurious about now.
But yeah, so I use energeticsto inform, branding and website

(03:08):
design and business.

Josh Hall (03:11):
So is it?
Is it similar to like Enneagramtests or personality testing,
or are those all?
Because I there's a blurredline between like basic
personality profiles and thenthings that get a little woo woo
for me.
But I will agree, and there'sno denying there, there's an
energy around somebody when youmeet them.
So are those like similar, oris it something vastly different

(03:33):
?

So it's not a personality assessment.
It is you're taking inastrology, the Ichi and Kabbalah
and the chakra system.
So that might be a little woofor you.
But I know a lot of people havesomehow translated the human
design with Enneagram.
But I haven't gotten that faras far as Enneagram and human
design correlation.

Josh Hall (03:52):
But some people are able to see the patterns between
the two, which I'm likeinteresting and look, I'm an
open book to talk about anything, so even if it's woo, we can
explore it.
Like what is is undeniable, andI think where this is really
important, especially with aitoday, is like there's just such
a separation between humans and, you know, computers and the
difference there and I do feellike I've leaned more into, um,

(04:17):
the personality side of thingsand just the authentic side of
me and for me, as I mentionedbefore, we hit record like I
just love community and I trulydo love helping people.
So when it came to reallyhoning in on my business model,
I made sure I chose somethingthat was going to suit me.
To answer your question aboutbeing a big community builder, I

(04:39):
really got honest with myselfand self-aware about what gives
me energy, what drains me, whatI'd want to do every day and it
was community on a fairly smallscale is just what I wanted to
do.
I wanted to know most of thepeople in my community.

I love it.
And what was the initiatory?
What happened for you to belike Nope, this is where I want
to go and this is the directionI want to go into.

Josh Hall (05:02):
It was.
The two parts of it werepersonal and profit.
The profit was I was like Iwanted a recurring revenue
stream.
I was doing one-off core salesand launches and I really love I
love doing that.
But I wanted a more stablebusiness model, just because I
know the power of recurringrevenue.
And then the other part of thatwas I had hundreds of students

(05:24):
and, aside from a few that wouldgive me testimonials, I'm like
I just don't really know any ofthem and I would love to.
There were a few students whowere really active on my social
media and I got to know them alittle bit and see some of their
results when they would let meknow.
I'm like man, how cool would itbe to bring these people
together and to be able to trulydo this together and help them

(05:46):
on a deeper level.
That was the impetus forthinking about launching an
initial community.
My community was first abackend offer, so it was courses
first, then community, and thenthe community just took over
and then I pivoted my businessmodel to be a community
membership first approach.

That's incredible, though.

Josh Hall (06:06):
I love that, I mean, it's the best, but I don't think
we're recording it.
When I told you, it is not foreverybody.
And I do think, when it comesto knowing yourself and being
self-aware and knowing yourenergy and what drains you and
lights you up, communitybuilding is not for everyone.
I really think some peopleshould just be a service
provider, or at least for a time.
Some people should just be aproduct creator, like listen bro

(06:30):
, you really don't care aboutpeople, you just want to make
money.
Just do the product thing,because you're not going to be a
good community builder.

I love that you say that, because I always talk
about like, why are we creatingbusinesses that actually don't
work for us?
We're creating from the fearsand the shoulds, and someone
told me to do this, and thenyou're doing it and it doesn't
feel good.
So, people, if you're buildinga community and you hate
building the community, thecommunity is going to feel that
Right, and so it's sointeresting to be like people
forget that they're in choicearound the businesses that they
create, right, and so I justlove that you were so you know,

(07:01):
intentional with like no, I wantto build this community because
I actually love people.

Josh Hall (07:06):
Gosh, it's, yeah, it's so important, I mean, even
for somebody just starting abusiness to get clients, you can
take all that from from day one, you know, make it like don't
do a service you don't want todo.
I mean, it's interesting likethis, the talk about like aura
and energy I can't stress Well,well, like how important I've
learned that that is in business.

(07:27):
Longevity, you know I love it.

Tell me more about what you know about it
thus far, or how have you usedyour unique energy in business?

Josh Hall (07:34):
I mean it's mainly just to avoid burnout.
That's really it.
I mean I just I've seen so manylike there's just nothing worse
than waking up and being like,oh god, I don't want to do this.
And for web designers andentrepreneurs, freelancers,
really the balls in your court.
Like you control it.
You control your services, youcontrol even your clients and to

(07:56):
some degree on who you'reattracting, you control all the
variables.
You control your schedule.
It may seem odd, may seem off,but you control, you can control
nearly everything in yourbusiness.
So yeah, that's just kind ofwhat I've landed on.
I realized, you know, 15 yearsinto being self-employed, is man

(08:16):
you got to protect your energy,like at at all costs.

Oh yeah, 100%.
The more supportive you canhave, like your environments be,
the more you're just going toamplify and amplify and amplify
Absolutely.
But that again goes back intochoice.
I feel like people don't forget.
People forget that they havechoice in creating their
businesses right Because you'rejust like.
You can control all of theseaspects actually if you're
setting yourself up correctlyand not from a place of burnout

(08:42):
but from a place of alignment.
And that's what I like to talkabout a lot, Because with the
energy types in human design,you can see when you're in
burnout.
So if I'm in bitterness, I'mnot in alignment.
I'm assuming you're a generator, just based off of what you
said.

Josh Hall (08:55):
What are the human design categories I'm familiar
with, like disk profile testing,where you're like dominant or
you're interactive or you'restable or you're cautious but
what are like the profile orwhat are the categories for
human design?

so we all have.
We have five different energytypes and we're all here to live
out a specific role, which iswhy, when you're building a team
, to have the right people inthe right roles, because then
that's where you're just goingto start creating services and
product products from its like,highest vibration versus this,
like I don't want to do it blahvibration.
So we have 500 types.
We have the manifestors, whichare here to inform and initiate

(09:29):
new ideas into the world.
We have the projectors, likemyself, to guide and see systems
and create efficiencies withinteams.
We have the reflectors, whichis only 1%, but they're here to
really reflect back theenvironments.
Is this working?
Is this not working?
Because if a reflector isunhappy, then it's not working,
but if they're really lit up andthey're excited about it, it's

(09:50):
working.
And then we have the generatorsand manifesting generators, and
those are the main, the coreenergy types, and that's what
the world has been built upon,and they're here to do and build
things.
The manifesting generators arehere to build really fast and do
a lot of different things.
And then we have the generators, who are supposed to really
figure out what their niche isand build from there, which is
why I think that you are agenerator, because of the

(10:11):
consistency that you have withjust showing up every single day
and when you think about yourbusiness right.
It's like if you're in deepsatisfaction, you're in
alignment right, but if you'rein a frustration, then you're

(10:31):
out of alignment Makes totalsense.

Josh Hall (10:32):
It's interesting, like do you feel like people
come into this at a certain ageor with more like life
experience, or do you feel likesome of this is set pretty early
on?
And I I asked that because, asI, when I went from being a
really a course creator in mytitle to being a community
builder, I look back and I'mlike, wait a minute, I've been a
community builder since I waslike an early teenager.
Like with groups of friends, Iwould connect with them.
I enjoyed I love likematchmaking and getting people

(10:55):
together and be like you wouldlove this person Like.
And then when I started a bandand we were finding our members,
I did a lot of that.
And then I mean every one of myentrepreneurial journeys.
I've loved the networking andmatchmaking aspect of it.
So I feel like I found that outabout myself early on.
It just took me years torealize that's really what I
mostly do.

(11:15):
What do you think about that?
Can you come into that later onin life or is that something
that you find early on?

Yeah, so I mean , human design is all about the
blueprint, like, so it's theenergetic blueprint that you
were born the day time location,that's your energetic blueprint
.
So it means that you've hadaccess to this energy your
entire life, right?
So it's it's so interestingbecause I feel like, with
society, we get told do this, goto college, do the X, y and Z,
and so we get off of, like, whatis our true path, right?

(11:42):
And so maybe that's why it tookyou a little bit longer to like
, come into, like, oh, Iactually can do this, but you've
been already doing it.
It's just being consciouslyaware of your gift within
building networks andcommunities, right, but you've
always had that gift.

Josh Hall (11:55):
When it didn't feel like work.
I think that's and I've heardso many entrepreneurs talk about
struggling to offer and pricesomething that they do, that
they love, because it doesn'tfeel like work or it doesn't
feel high value because it'seasy to you.
But I have this conversationwith my wife all the time
because she could not be moreopposite than me when it like

(12:18):
her doing a virtual podcastinterview would be like her
night nightmare, but she justwould really not like to do it.
um, on our hosting one, oh both,yeah, um, and it was funny
because the the live event Itold you about that we just had
for my community where, where uh, sam, our mutual friend, sam
sarsden, out in bend oregon welove you, sam.

(12:40):
He's gonna be listening to thisone.
He freaking rocked it.
Uh also is an amazing karaokeartist that we found out.
But uh shoot, uh shoot.
What was I going to say?
I was.
What I was going to say was, um, oh my gosh, I lost it.
Oh, no, your wife.
Yes, yes, I.
So I told her, like on thislive event, I'm just going to do
a live, like coaching set, likelive, just Q and a live.

(13:02):
And she was like that is myliteral nightmare.
She's like I would need to haveit all on a list what I'm going
to say, be prepared.
And we couldn't be moreopposite.
Like I feel like I'm better,you know, off the cuff and I'm
only saying that just becausethose type of personality traits
and the energy I guess,whatever we call it like, I do
think it's just so important tomake sure you're self-aware with

(13:23):
everything you do in yourbusiness.

Oh, 100%, and like, if you are like that,
where you're like, oh, let's dooff the cusp, I'd be like, oh,
you're probably a third line,you like to experiment with
things or you have an openthroat and you can just take on
whatever the conversation goes,et cetera, et cetera.
Where she's probably you knowthere's like so many things and
variables, where you'd be likeI'm going to assume you're
probably more introverted, soyou're a second line.
You know there's a whole it'sit's very nuanced system.

(13:45):
But it is fascinating to seelike no, this is actually my
personality and then to see itlike in, like a physical, like
map form of your energetics iswild.

Josh Hall (13:54):
It's so funny just because I've always been very I
guess I've just been very wearyof like all sorts of personality
stuff, whether it's more justplain business pro, you know,
personality profiles or gettinginto the more woo woo stuff.
But I remember when I did thatdisc personality test years ago,
I was in a business coachingprogram and I was like this just

(14:17):
seems like horse shit, likewhatever I'll do it, you know
like it's, how could this, howcould this test possibly know me
?
And it nailed me down to a T.
I was like, oh my gosh, afterdoing this in-depth test it was
just scenarios.
It was like what would you doif this happened?
What would your first responsebe?
What would your second responsebe?
And then at the end of that Iwas like, oh my gosh.

(14:38):
Yeah, like generations beforeus have really figured out a lot
of this, this stuff.
You know like where?
Yeah, there's, there's.

I guess I'm just saying I'm very open more
towards like understanding moreabout personality types, energy,
all that good stuffno-transcript at, because we

(15:12):
have a clear idea of who we areand our personalities and how
our strengths and weaknesseswork together or don't Right,
and it's like, the more that wecan have that self-awareness
that you're talking about, Ijust feel like it just really
opens up such a deeperconnection between the people
that you're working with, reallythe clients that you have, the
community that you're building.
It's just so you can interactdifferently with the people that

(15:33):
you're around, knowing thatlike, oh, this is who you are
Great.

Josh Hall (15:37):
When it comes to branding and being a human in
this tech, virtual world we'rein?
I mean, would you agree thatthere's just nothing better than
just like being in the rolethat you feel like you should be
in?

Oh my God, absolutely.
My entire business is called,designed to be human, Like, all
I care about is being yourselfand with like the like.
When you're forcing yourselfinto a role, you're not going to
be actually activating any ofthe gifts that you're here to
bring into it, Right?
So if you're trying to forceyourself into a role that you're
like I actually hate all ofthis then the work output is

(16:15):
going to suck.
So, like why are we puttingroles in plate or people in
roles that they don't even wantto be in?
Like, logically, that doesn'tmake sense to me.
And we're constantly doing it.
We're constantly forcing peopleto be like hey, we know your
magic, we're going to put you inthis like other box that has
nothing to do with what you liketo do.
You know it's like doesn't makeany sense.

Josh Hall (16:31):
Side note for hiring.
I learned this when I startedworking with subcontractors.
One thing I learned early onwas to ask them like what are
you interested in doing?
I don't want to give you workyou don't want to do.

That's a great question.

Josh Hall (16:44):
Like I've been really , and what's been shocking is
like how thankful people I workwith respond to that.
They're like oh, I reallyappreciate you know, I
appreciate you looking out forme and I'm like it just seems
like a logical win, win, win.
Like I don't want to be givingyou work that you don't want to
do.
I don't want to get work thatis obviously work you didn't
want to do.

(17:05):
And then you know it's justpeople getting that work on the
outside.
They're going to tell it's likeoh, this was half ass or
whatever.
So, um, yeah, just from ahiring perspective, like I've
learned that's such a it's suchan easy thing to do.
Just ask your people, like whatdo you love to?
What gives, gives you joy andenergy?
Let's do more of that.
And then if you don't like this, maybe this other person will

(17:25):
like that.

Yeah, 100%, and you can.
You can tell when people arestarting to like waiver.
If you're like, hey, these arethe roles that I need, and
they're like, oh, yeah, I can dothat.
Like there's like a tonalityshift that happens when they're
not in authenticity, like thatthey don't really want to do it.
Like you can tell when they'relike, yeah, I can do that too.
I can do that too.
I can do that too, cause theyjust want the job versus they
want instead of actually beingan integrity with what they

(17:47):
actually want to be doing.

Josh Hall (17:50):
What about, early on, folks who don't really know, I
mean especially entrepreneurs?
We're all probably just goingto try a bunch of stuff out and
and yeah, sometime.
I mean just case in point.
I had no idea I would lovedoing courses.
That was not something I'd everplanned to do, it just kind of
happened, I just kind ofstumbled into it.
I think accidentalentrepreneurship is oh so common

(18:13):
and it may change.
I've seen it change overseasons to where, like something
you really love doing for alittle while, eventually you're
just like I just don't want todo this anymore.
What are your thoughts aboutlike how to, I guess, give what,
give yourself grace inexperimentation times?

Yeah, and I feel like the first when you're
starting out with anything,please go and get really curious
about everything, Tryeverything on it's.
When you're like, no, this iswhere I'm going, but you don't
want to be doing it, Rightthat's.
And if you love doing it andthen all of a sudden you're like
I don't really want to do thisanymore, then off board it,
don't do it, or, you know, makeit an.
How can you put yourself in anenvironment where you're like

(18:51):
this is fun, this environment'sfun, Even if I'm doing something
I don't like to do?
Right, there's like ways aroundto like making it move back into
alignment and making thatenergy feel really good in your
body, versus keeping likeforcing to burn out.
Where you're like I don't evenwhy am I doing this?
Like, why am I writing thisnewsletter to 20 people?
And I hate doing it.
Right, it's like there has tobe other ways where I can show
up and I'm like, whether that'svideo or that's podcasting, like

(19:14):
whatever that is like go andexplore, like you have to try it
all on and then what are thethings that you love to do the
most?
And then maximize those momentsand then hire a team to support
you in the things that youdon't really want to do but have
to do.
But yeah, experiment witheverything.

Josh Hall (19:28):
What about the idea of giving yourself a reasonable
timeline to make somethingsuccessful?
And I only say that because Isee a lot of dabblers and a lot
of dip in and outers.
If you're going to do a podcastand it's going to help you grow
your business, you can't justdo 15 episodes and stop.

(19:48):
I think there's ways toexperiment, but I'm also.
I guess the succinct questionis like how do you experiment
but also commit if it issomething you think you're going
to want to do?

Yeah, that's a great question.
I mean, it depends on, I mean,if you've, if you put in all the
time and effort to start apodcast, I would be surprised if
you stopped it after 15episodes, right?

Josh Hall (20:12):
That's really common, though, and I think it may be
the strategy of someone, but Imean, I don't know the stats,
but it's like shockingly highthe number of podcasts that have
less than 20 episodes.
Do you know why?

people stop them.

Josh Hall (20:30):
It's really hard and again, I think it kind of
depends on the personality.
If you're, if you're someonewho just did it just to try to
get more marketing or getconnected, then you're going to
burn out because it's it's notfulfilling you probably.
But if you're naturally curiousand you like people and you're
interested in people, at thevery least that would help you
do something that you want to doweek to week or month to month,

(20:51):
so want to do week to week ormonth to month.
So I think there's a lot ofthat Um, and I think people
underestimate the amount of workthat goes into it, especially
when it comes to scheduling andsystems and all that stuff.

Oh my gosh, yeah, systems are, I think,
going to be the death of a lotof, uh, business owners.
To be honest, that's where theyget stuck and then you're,
you're taken out of your zone ofgenius at the creation portion,
um, but yeah, as far as far aslike the, I mean you kind of do
have the dabble and see if it'sgoing to work for you or not, or
if it's worth, and maybe it'ssomething you put down and then
come back to it.
But if you're like this podcastis the future of my business,

(21:23):
how is that?
That should be the commit.
If that's the commitment, thenyou're, even if you don't like
it, you're going to keep doingit.

Josh Hall (21:38):
And then you're like this isn't the commitment
anymore.
I love that we're hitting onthis.
This isn't something we'vetalked about much on the podcast
, but this idea of committing tosomething and knowing that you
want to see it through, whetherit's like a 12-month program
that you launch for clients or abootcamp kind of thing, or if
it is something that's ongoingforever until you close it, this
podcast, I delayed it for overa year just because I knew when

(21:58):
I launched this thing it's goingto be for years and I'm not
just going to just jump intothis and then half-ass it.
Like I guess the longer I heardwhat was the quote, the longer
the commitment, the longer thedecision to launch.
I think was something to thateffect.
I I heard that framework andthat terminology and I was like,

(22:18):
yes, I agree with that.
Like you can make a splitsecond decision on something
that's going to be short, shortterm, but like plan it,
strategize it, think about itand make sure you want to do it.

If it's long-term, that's kind of where
a lot of people are just likeI'm just going to try it on, and
then they haven't reallythought about all of the things
that you just mentioned.
And then it's like, oh, this isoverwhelming on top of the
workload, like I thought I'd befun, and then like the output's
fun, but then the work to getthere is like not fun, and so
they're like, okay, let me justlike step it back.
But going again to like whatare you committed in your

(22:51):
business?
Because you're always committedto something and if there's any
doubt around, like oh, I'mgoing to go here or I'm going to
go there, then there is nocommitment.
Actually, the commitment is I'mgoing to go after it, even if
doubt comes up.
This is the direction that I'mgoing, and I think that's what
really holds that commitment Forme.
This year is the only year I'veactually done any marketing for

(23:12):
myself and I run a six figurebusiness and I've been doing
that for over the last fiveyears and I'm like no, I now I'm
committed to a Sunday email andat least one real one real a
week, because it's likeconsistency in that way has been
you know something that I'm notas like.
I'm like, ah, I am so referralbased and network oriented and
relational building.
That it's like oh, I've alwaysgotten it through my network,

(23:33):
but this year I'm like no, I'mgoing to grow, I want to expand,
I want to like meet new people,I want to be featured on
podcasts and, like you know,like I have new goals because I
feel deeply committed to mygrowth this year.

Josh Hall (23:44):
I was just gonna ask what made you change?
Yeah, so it sounds like a newvision.
You probably leveled up.
I feel like you probably got toa point where you're like this
is a new chapter, new direction,new vision at least.
And then, yeah, in order to hitthat, your marketing has to
change.
Something's got to change ifyou're going to get to a new
destination.

Well, yeah, and I don't know how Well you've
been on a 15-year journey withentrepreneurship and you've
changed and offered new thingsand now it's really focused on
community.
So, with me, I had been runningmy you know, design and
branding studio just design,branding, website designs for
five years.
I was like it's missing thesoul to it, like it's missing my

(24:25):
deep, the wisdom that I canguide other people on their
journeys, like I'm missing thatenergetic portion and like I
also want to add in thisbusiness strategy, because when
I'm in conversation with peoplebuilding brands, they're not
even thinking about how to likeimplement it into their business
yet and I'm like, wait, that'slike a missing link.
So I was like how can I combineall three of them?
And that's essentially howdesigned to be human came to be.

(24:47):
It's like I love human design, Ilove energetics.
Like this this should inform,like you should inform your
brand and your business.
Right, because the higher, themore that aligned that we can be
within ourselves, that's ofcourse we're gonna make way more
aligned decisions within ourbranding, messaging and then our
business.
So it's like of course thatmakes sense in my brain and so
that's where I was like okay,we're changing it all.
We're going to start a newbranding studio called design to

(25:10):
be human, and we're going tooffer a done with you program
called big brand energy.
And it's at the intersection ofthose three things celebrating
yourself, making sure that theextent your brand is an
extension of how you feel ininteraction.
There's nothing worse to me.
When I meet someone online andthen I meet them in person, I'm
like who are you?
Like your energy is notconsistent and that builds like

(25:30):
distrust Right, and thenbuilding a business that's
sustainable, like why are weforcing ourselves to do that?

Josh Hall (25:40):
If you started with everything you have in place now
, five years into it, if youstarted with the weekly
newsletter and everything youhad in place five years ago, do
you think you would have enjoyedit?
Or did it take you that fiveyears to kind of get here to
this point?

Yeah, I think so.
I did actually start anewsletter.
It's called pure fucking joy.
No-transcript, this is how I'mhere to serve Um.

(26:20):
And it just like clicked in.
I was like, okay, and now I'mthis.
And now I'm deeply committed.
Now I feel deeply committed.
I feel like I was always halfin, half out, like, oh, if it
doesn't work out, I could go geta job, even though I've never
do that.
Please don't ever put me backthere.

Josh Hall (26:36):
Well, I really like that.
We're talking about this,though, lindsay, because I think
a lot of people feel pressure,especially in web design, to,
for example, offer ongoing SEOservices, like Sam is doing,
like long term, committed annualcontracts.
But if you don't know youreally want to do that, I
recommend focus short term,dabble a little bit in the short

(26:57):
term, just do like a sprint, dolike a 90 day challenge or
something, and then, if you likeit, awesome, but after 90 days,
you really didn't enjoy SEO.
Don't do SEO, you don't have to.
I mean, even with the podcast, Idid an interview series with
other business owners in webdesign and I made it like a

(27:17):
little.
I interviewed nine people.
It was basically like a testtrial run of a podcast, and I
just did this YouTube interviewseries and it went well.
But what I gained from that isI really like interviewing and I
really like talking to peopleand I like doing long form, so
that gave me enough proof ofconcept to like okay, I'm ready

(27:37):
to do the full podcast for aslong as we want to keep this
thing going.

Yeah, no, actually that's a great point.
I love that to try it on andsee if it works for you or not,
because some people have toexperience things before they
know they even want to continuedoing that.
So I love that.
You're like no, I'm committedto three months, nine interviews
and then we'll reassess.
It's the reassessing that Ifeel like people forget about in
their businesses and it goesback into choice.

(28:03):
I was told to do this but neverquestioned if it still works
for me or not, becauseeveryone's evolving and growing
and technology changes so muchwithin our businesses.
So it's like how do we make it,how do we stay up with the
times?
And that's through reassessingand like relaunching and
thinking about thingsdifferently or offering new
products and services.
So it's like you do need toexperiment and see if people

(28:24):
even want to hop on aconversation with you or want
the product or service, and so Ithink the marketing interviews
are so fascinating to be on.

Josh Hall (28:33):
Yeah, are so fascinating to be on.
Yeah, I just think it's good toexperiment within like certain
confines to see what you enjoydoing.
A real world example of this Iused to give drum lessons and
one of my little students, oneof my little guys it was just on
my electric drum set.
He did okay, like I could tellit wasn't his main thing, but he

(28:55):
was pretty good and he did it.
And then I taught him how todrum roll and he lit up.
He was like Ooh, I saw him hisenergy change.
He like set up straight and heloved to drum roll.
He went on to be like anincredible percussionist in a
marching band and he loved, youknow, super fast drum, all six

(29:16):
stuff Didn't give a crap fordrum set playing.
I could not be the opposite.
I love drum set, didn't careabout marching band stuff, but
it just showed me like weexperimented on drums and then
eventually he found in his lanewhat he really liked to do.
So I just I think it's a goodreminder for everyone to like.
You know, in the case of, likemy folks, with web design,

(29:36):
there's a lot of differentthings you can do try a few
things out and then, as soon asthere's something that lights
you up, that's when you can divein and commit to it.

Yeah, and I feel like too, I absolutely
agree with that, and what'sbeautiful about that is like how
infectious someone's passion iswhen you're working with them,
or you can even see it in theequations, or how they're
showing up in their marketing,like it's so important to find
the things that do light you,that do light you up.
And again it's like going backto what you were talking about
earlier, where you're like, ohwell, it's so easy, so it's just

(30:05):
whatever.
And it's like no, no, no, thoseare the things is X, y and Z,
and yes, it can be.
And also, it doesn't need to beyour normal state of mind,
right.

Josh Hall (30:21):
What about choosing marketing strategies and
aligning that?
You know with what energize you?
I'm sure you have thisconversation with probably like
every client.
I see this question all thetime, where our students are
like I guess I'll start postingreels and I can hear it in their
voice.
I'm like don't do it.
There's so many other ways tomark.
You don't have to do that Likereally nowadays you don't have

(30:43):
to do anything.
There's picked.
I feel like if you pick two orthree things you really want to
do, or maybe just one.
If it's a high converter, dothat.
What are your thoughts on that?
When somebody's like oh,converter, do that.
What are your thoughts on that?

when somebody's like oh, I guess I need to
dance on tiktok now.
Hard-hitting question there,josh.
Um, exactly to the point.
Like we're talking aboutexperimenting with products and
services and what you want tooffer.
You're gonna have to experimentwith your marketing.
Like um, I work with a coachright now and she's like you
don't even need to be on socialor be seen.
And I'm like I, you don't evenneed to be on social or be seen.
And I'm like I'm a projector, Ineed to be visible, and I also

(31:18):
want to be seen as an expert inmy niche.
So I do want to show up onreels, but that's only come into
existence this year.
So it really depends on what isyour goal here and who do you
want to actually work with?
Because you could just buildone-to-one relationships behind
the scenes and you're not evenon social.
For me as a designer, though, Ifeel like, yeah, it's very

(31:39):
important for me to be like I'man intimate relationship with
you.
You need to know who I am, whatI'm about, what I can actually
do and how I'm you know likewhat?
Like I'm a human too, and mybrand is called designed to be
human.
So it's like how can I be morehuman and more vulnerable in how
I show up so I can supportpeople in showing up in their
businesses, you know, inauthenticity, right?

(32:00):
So again, I think the answer iswhat feels really good to you
and what are your actual goals?

Josh Hall (32:05):
How are you showing up on reels in the way that
works for you, is it?
You know it, you know what typelike, how are you literally
presenting yourself on reels?
Cause I know there's so manydifferent ways to go about
social media stories, reels,posts, carousel, you know
whatever, what, what works foryou.

Yeah.
So right now I'm doing I'm onlycommitted to one reel because
I'm still building out theprogram and all these other
things on the back end.
So I'm like I'm committed toone reel a week, if not maybe a
few more, but for me again itgoes back into if it's not fun,
I will not do it.
So how do I make it as fun aspossible to show up, record a
reel and then make it fun inediting?

(32:44):
So I do Sunday thoughts, whichis like what do I say?
Something about booping my catsand telling you about my life,
or something like that.
I should know it by now.
It's the same intro every time.
But then I just talked aboutlike an insight that I learned
about myself, or like about thework that I'm doing and just
show behind the scenes of likemy life, where I'm just talking
and sharing a story and reallyspeaking from my lived

(33:05):
experiences, has been reallywell, good as far as like
building more of the no like andtrust factor.
Essentially, and it's sointeresting.
I'm like, has anyone evenwatching these?
And right here, the instantgratification that we live in
right now is actually a pain inmy ass.
Like I'm like, why do I?
I'm like no one's even seeingthis.
Why am I doing this?
And I would assume some of yoursimilar to your students as

(33:26):
well, and it's so insane to bewalking around and bend Oregon
and be like, oh my God, I sawyour wheel.
I really love this series, likeI look forward to seeing it
every Sunday.
And I'm like, are you eveninteracting with?
Like?
I'm like okay, okay, people areat least you know, becoming
aware of who who I am, cause I'mreally all in on the building
my personal brand this year too,instead of it's that I'm

(33:47):
posting on my personal brandversus my like design studio.
Um, uh, Instagram right now aswell.

Josh Hall (33:56):
Very cool.
I asked that because it'sanother question I get often is
like, what type of reel should Ipost?
And I do feel like that's sucha personal thing, Like do you
just want to go face to camera,no editing?
Do you want to edit a little?
Do you want to do like a Sundayyou know quick tip, like you're
doing, or Sunday insight, or isit more text or visual?
Like there's a lot of authorswho you won't see their face

(34:16):
much at all, You'll just seeclips of books or clips of their
writing or blog posts.
I do think it's really, oh mygosh, this is so timely just
because I've dabbled in certainthings, especially on social
media, and I'm like I justdidn't really like doing that.
I softly committed to doing aweekly quick tip on my social

(34:37):
media this year and I got itlike five in and I was like I
just don't enjoy doing these andeven if I pull a clip out of a
podcast interview, it justdoesn't seem to work right in
like a short, like a really 27or 30 second format.
So I'm just like I'm just goingto stick long form and my
YouTube, like that's what Iformat.
So I'm just like I'm just goingto stick long form and my
YouTube, like that's what I doand I'm just going to continue
to do that.
And even the way I use socialmedia now I've learned to like

(35:01):
do it in the way that I likeshowing up for it, Like you said
.

And again, it's like the energy piece, like if
you don't like showing up for it, it's going to be felt and seen
.
Like it's going to be felt andseen.
So, but as it goes to reels, ifyou're talking about like that
type of reels, like, oh, like,if you want, you get higher
engagement when you're showingyour face, always, with that
said, obviously there arefaceless accounts, but they just
don't do as well, as like makesure your face is in the first
screen, like there's so muchstrategy around the social reel,

(35:25):
and like making sure they'removing your hands and breaking
the pattern of the scroll, andyou're like, oh, my God, just
let me just share what I need toshare.
But there, are there are a lotof techniques.
You're like, wow, the humanbrain is like fascinating the
things that we have to do justto get your attention people.

Josh Hall (35:47):
Hello, let's talk about authenticity.
I feel like this is probablysomething you have plenty of
thoughts on.
It's funny when I hear peopletalk and I think a lot of people
in your space and branding andand visibility and showing up
and being yourself I hear thisterm often about like be your
true, authentic self, and Ithink a lot of people just think
that means that you can justcuss when you feel like it
instead of holding back.
But I feel like there's a lotmore to it than just that, would

(36:09):
you agree?

No, I just want to say fuck all the time.

Josh Hall (36:17):
You just must let it go.
You know what, like I do feel,like I think that's just like a
common thought, it's like, oh,they can just be more vulgar.
But no, I feel like there'sactually a lot more to that.
What, what are some?
What's the onion ofauthenticity that you help
clients peel back?

oh, that's a really good question.
Me, it always comes down tolike what do you think about
when you're not in your work?
How do you exist in yourfriendships?
What is your most natural wayof being, without, without any
sort of thought of like, oh, Ishould say this or I should do
that?
It's like whenever we're comingfrom the shoulds, that's when
I'm like you're out ofauthenticity.

(36:50):
So when you're like I, if youwere just, you just talked and
this is like, whatever comes upis exactly what you're supposed
to say, that's authenticity tome, that's alignment to me.
Right?
It's when you move from yourbody into your mind and you're
allowing your mind to make thesedecisions of like.
Should I say like, okay, butbased on the strategy, I should
go do this and you're like getall like analytical about it.

(37:10):
You get so stuck in your head.
Then you're coming across as arobot and we don't want that
either.
And yeah, if your authenticityis cussing, then throw in
whatever you need to, but for me, it is just really about how do
you want to exist in the world?
What is your truest form thatmakes you feel so like?
This is me.
I think I just changed my valueproposition to be like creating

(37:33):
brands that make you say, oh myGod, that's me Right, it's like
what is that?
And like we could take thatenergetic or like those like key
moments of that is me.
How do we then build a brandworld around that?
Because that's when you'rereally going to attract the
correct people for you, that youactually want to work with More
that you can be you, morepeople are going to see that,
and then those people are likethat's my team and then they're

(37:54):
going to come to you.
That's how I see alignment andauthenticity.
How do you see authenticity,josh?

Josh Hall (38:01):
I'll go back to our recent in-person event.
Everyone.
There was a couple of quotesthat everyone kept on repeating
and one was your vibe attractsyour tribe.
We talk about that quite a bit.
It just kind of articulateswhat you just said there, like
what you put out is is often youknow what you're going to get
back and you know we just bringup sam again.
It's interesting because, likesam, web designer pro, my

(38:25):
community is very diverse inevery metric.
We have people who are right inthe beginning.
We have people who are reallyestablished.
We're people who are like loudextroverts.
We have people who are reallyestablished.
We're people who are like loudextroverts.
We have people who are superquiet introverts every everyone
in between.
But there is like um, I guessit's a vibe.
There is like a you're probablygonna be pretty dang cool,
you're gonna be super helpful,you're gonna be very nice and

(38:48):
you want to succeed and you wantothers around you to succeed,
like those are kind of the core.
I should probably take thetranscript and put that on the
sales page.
Those are like some of the corethings that are just I've found
to be in every member,especially those who are really
active and are killing it.
People who don't share one ormost of those, just they're
usually not going to last.

(39:09):
You get weeded out if you're,you know, not a cool, not a cool
person and not helpful and notit's, it's like too infectious
to or it's too um, it's too it's, it's almost like too good of a
vibe.
And if you don't fit in that,yeah, I feel like it's properly
weeding out.
Folks who are the like sevenfigure hustlers who just want to

(39:30):
make a million dollars as fastas they can.
Yeah, um, um, because wehaven't a couple of those people
dip in and they haven't beenrude or anything, but they just
tend to leave pretty quick.
They're like okay, I need youknow, you need to like go over
fish, I gotta go yeah, yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot of that too,but, um, yeah, that's kind of
how I.
I view that in a way is likejust the vibe you get there.
The personality types may bevery different, but it's like

(39:53):
the core, it's the vibe that isunder all that.

Well, that's your why.
All those values that you juststated, I'm going to assume are
core values from your why andyour purpose.
Right, so you're attractingthat in.
So what are you doing in yourbranding that are in your brand
and any of the products that youoffer, where you actually get
to attract that?
Because, for me, I think it'show you show up and your
presence and how you are.

(40:17):
If they're hearing you from apodcast, they're like, oh, this
is how he's talking to likeother people in his community,
great, and he's this helpful andoh my God, he's.
You're getting this type oflike time.
Yeah, I would love to join thecommunity, but what do you think
it for you in your branding?
How is that?
What are you doing to attractthat?

Josh Hall (40:34):
I think that's it right.
There is just yeah, I I'mdefinitely like if we were
having this conversation inperson at a coffee shop or over
a beer, it would be the exactsame thing.
Um, might be a little bitlouder with a beer, you know,
but that's it really is likeI've definitely gotten more and
more to the point where, like,there's no LinkedIn facade.

(40:56):
It is like I'm showing up witha t-shirt, this is who I am,
this is what we do.
I think, yeah, being authentic,basically, I guess for me means
no mask, no fakeness.
I'm going to say hot dog andgoofy stuff.
I'm going to say dad puns, it'sgoing to be all the things that
, yeah, there's.
Just I don't feel and I think ithelps because I didn't come

(41:18):
from a corporate background andI've always been very, um, been
a bad boy, been in a metal bandand not been in the academia
world, so I just never fell inline to that kind of stuff, in
all honesty.
So I just have always I'velearned more and more, just like
, especially now that, like I'vemade millions of dollars doing
this.
I'm like now I have like thefinancial proof to be like I'm

(41:40):
going to do whatever the heck Iwant.
So if it's not your vibe, allgood.
There's other people who youcan go to.
So I think for me that's kindof where I've landed on now.
At this stage it's like there'sjust no reason to put a filter.
I'm not going to be fake in anyway you've literally proven
everything.

You're like, yep, I'm gonna do it my way.
And then I and look at, look atthe roi on this right like you
have everything.
You have all the stats now toback up all of your belief
systems, which is really cool aswell what if you don't?

Josh Hall (42:09):
what if you don't have the stats and the financial
proof?

and no one knows you can you?
You can just be.
I just feel like if you're juststarting out, you're not going
to have that.
But if you know and you aretrue to yourself, and how can
your truth ever be in doubt?
If you're coming from I know Iwant to create this versus I
should create this.

(42:32):
That's a very different like.
You are in empowerment and thatmeans that is magnetism to its
like highest form, where it'slike I should do this and then
there's doubt because you'relike oh, I don't know if I
should or not.
That's doubt, right.
And then you're not reallyaccessing the open portal of the
miracles that can come intointo your world.
Like, where were you at whenyou first started?

(42:53):
I know you were a freelancerfirst and then community course
and then community, but you hadto learn all of these things to
be able to teach in the way thatyou do, to then understand how
these this is how my, my clientswork or my students think about
.
They need a community to besupported.
Like everything informs you towhere you're at today

(43:31):
no-transcript.

Josh Hall (43:31):
Well, like for me personally in the early days,
one thing has been consistent ineverything I've done, and it is
truly that I just really enjoyhelping people.
And it was true in my band dayswhen we were playing around and
we were, um, you know, like wewere pretty rock band, it was
still like it was a good, therewere good vibes in there.

(43:57):
It wasn't like, wow, these guysare dicks.
It was like no, like they'relike, if you're going to want to
hang out with a band after theshow at their merch is going to
be us, like we're going to talkto everybody, we'll have a good
time.
Um, so I think that spirit wentthrough even into the very, very
early years of me starting mybusiness.
Even though I had no socialproof, very little education or

(44:18):
skillset, I still had thatspirit of like I want to help
this business.
And I started out doing graphicdesign and brochures.
It was like I'm going to put myheart and soul into this five
page brochure and I'm going todo my best.
It may not be amazing, but Ididn't tell it to the client,
but I was like I'm really goingto care and I think care like
genuine care One thing I teachin my business course is that if

(44:41):
you don't have expertise yet,just start with care, because
care I've found will really getyou a long way, especially when
you don't have skill set andexpertise and experience in your
corner yet.

So I guess to answer your question.

Josh Hall (44:56):
What's that?

And in the world of AI, like just your
human care is, goes such a longway.

Josh Hall (45:03):
I'm so glad you mentioned this, because we kind
of derailed right from theoutset with this idea of AI, but
I mean, I think even more so.
Everything we've talked aboutto this point is how we separate
ourselves from AI 100%.

Yeah, and I think that you can like.
Obviously, ai is such a hugesupporter in like writing copy
and it's like is very supportive.
But like I had like a cold, canI tell you about a little
experience?
I just said so I got a coldemail from someone like a web
designer or whatever, being likehey, I could white label for
your, for your business.
I'm like, okay, who is this?

(45:39):
And so I click.
I'm like do you even do goodwork?
And so I click on the websiteand I look and I'm like this
isn't.
This feels like an AI generatedwebsite and none of this feels
like a real person is behindthis and I don't know who this
person is.
The only thing that made me belike oh well, there must be some
truth to this is that he hadthree testimonials from people
saying his name and I was likewell, they look like real people

(46:01):
.
So I was like, okay, we'll keepthis.
We'll keep, we'll keep this themeeting on Cause I do need like
a Shopify, like developer, justin the back pocket if that
happens, right.
But I was like no, I reallyhave distrust in like, is this
spam or is this like?
Like who?
Like?
There's none of you in thissite.
The only thing that makes itreal are those three
testimonials, and they're videotestimonials.

(46:22):
If it wasn't a video testimony,I'd be like this shit is fake.
So I don't know how.
Have you had experiences likethat where you're like this is a
robot oh, especially now.

Josh Hall (46:31):
I mean I'm on a still a very low scale compared to,
like, high end entrepreneur,like you know, higher end
entrepreneurs and authors andstuff.
But even at the scale I'm atright now, I'm getting daily
multiple emails that are likethey're all using the same
subject lines or the body is thesame, and I'm like, or it's
like navigating, so using allthe chat GDP terms, like, uh,

(46:52):
you know navigating something,or unleash, unleash your certain
talents, Like okay, obviouslyyou AI'd this.
It's funny because, when itcomes to standing out,
particularly with emails, onething I've really challenged
myself with is like if I wereintroducing somebody in person,
however, I would literally inperson introduce them.
I'm going to make that myheadline.

(47:15):
That's like one little tip I'velearned.
I introduced a couple ofcolleagues recently and
separately I've known them.
They're in the same world andthey hadn't met each other.
One's a podcast host, One waslooking to get on podcast.
I thought to myself literallyhow the F have you two not met?
And that's what I made theheadline.
I literally put how the F haveyou two not met?

(47:36):
And they both opened it upimmediately and they were like
this is great.
So, yeah, I've thought aboutthat when it comes to any sort
of whether it's cold outreach orwarm outreach, like un-AI-ing
the terminology as much aspossible.
It's interesting because I'vecome around over the past year

(47:58):
way more to AI, but I'm stillvery, very careful about staying
authentic and my voice ineverything.

Oh yeah, yeah, I actually just had this
branding project too.
That happened and they hadfilled out the entire brand
therapy form using AI, chatgpt,and I'm having the copywriter
create these brand statementsand then the tones off because
it wasn't created by your voice,and I'm like, oh my gosh.
And there's a little bit backand forth and it wasn't terrible

(48:27):
, but it's just like what are wetrying to say here?
If you don't even know whatyou're trying to say, you're
allowing a computer to formthoughts for you and that's a
problem, because we're not goingto be able to communicate who
you are if you don't know whoyou are.
And that's the whole point withthis whole like starting with
the energetics and then havingthat inform the branding and the
business.
It's like let's get reallyclear on who you are and what

(48:48):
you sell, so then we can bringclarity to the other major
platforms for you.

Josh Hall (48:54):
How do you train AI models?
How do you help clients use AIbut stay within their you know
we call it authentic self orbrand voice.
I'm just thinking like Circle,which is the platform I use for
Web Designer Pro.
They recently released AIagents and it's really cool
because you can literally havelike an in-house AI bot that is

(49:18):
only trained on the stuff in thecommunity but you can prompt it
to be like be really short anddirect or be friendly and
enthusiastic.
You can give it a little bit oflike your personality traits.
So that's kind of one way I'vetried to use AI but also keep it
within my again my vibe wayI've tried to use AI but also

(49:38):
keep it within my again my vibe.
What are there other methodsthat you've seen work well for
literally training AI to makesure it stays within your like
brand voice?

Well, usually I just have them fill out the, so
I come up with all the brandstatements, the brand strategy
around everything andessentially put all of that
information into the GPT andthen let's see how it plays out.
I haven't don't get me, I havenot mastered that at all.
It's just kind of like playingaround me like, hey, this is all
the information on the myclient.

(50:02):
Now how do we?
Can we create a web copy orpage or sales page off based off
the information that you knowin this tone um, but yeah, no,
I'm not even I've bought in afew of those and I haven't even
gotten through the courses yetof oh, you can create your you
know bot.
That's just for your brand copyand all your marketing, and I
haven't gotten through those yet.
But I would suggest don't usethe AI yet when you're filling

(50:25):
out the stuff, because we needto know what your voice is, so
then we can make sure that thetonality in throughout the rest
of the website makes sense,cause that's the worst part is
when your website doesn't feellike an extension of you, which
goes back into the story,previous story of like.
Am I talking to a robot LikeEddie?
Who am I talking to?

Josh Hall (50:44):
You know, and something else I meant to
mention when you asked me alittle bit ago what's how I show
up online and what that meansto me as far as being authentic
with how I show up online, Ijust vividly remember this it
was one of my first web designstudents said that what made him
trust me in my courses was thatwe were in a Facebook group

(51:05):
together a big web design groupand somebody I think I posted
one of my videos and somebodyleft a pretty like rotten kind
of snarky comment.
Somebody left a pretty likerotten kind of snarky comment
and he said your response mademe trust you, because I don't

(51:25):
remember what it was or what Isaid, but it was friendly.
It was a stern, like stood upfor myself.
But also I didn't degrade himpublicly in the forum or cuss at
him or, you know, get defensivein that way, cuss at him or,
you know, get defensive in thatway.
I just like um, I again he Idon't even remember, but he just
said, like you know, youresponded in a way that made,
made him respect me and trust me.
So I've thought about that too.
I do think it's those littleinteractions.

(51:48):
It's a comment on a socialmedia post, it's a DM, it's a.
If somebody says no, how do yourespond to that?
Are you like, well, fine, don'tcome on my podcast, I don't
want you anyway.
Or are you like, no problem,we'd love to have you on when
it's a good fit for you?
Just something as simple asthat.
I think, especially when it'spublic, those little micro
interactions, I think, add upand make a big impact.

Yeah, I love that.
You said that too, becauseyou're talking about oh,
everyone in my community is kindand like.
You responded with kindness andyet a firm boundary of like.
I don't know exactly how youresponded, but I'm assuming all
the values that you hold inintegrity within the community
is how you responded to thatcomment.

Josh Hall (52:29):
Yeah, and this was actually before my community.
This was in like a um, a publicFacebook group.
That was huge, but even more sowith that idea.
If you're in a public Facebookgroup of tens of thousands of
people, you may not get Like youmentioned earlier, you may not
get engagement and a like or adislike, but people are going to

(52:51):
see that.
So I think, even more so, beingreally really careful and
authentic with how you respondis key.
I mean, some of the top webdesign business coaches or
product creators can beviciously reactive towards
criticism on their posts andstuff, and I've just felt like

(53:12):
there's a part of me that wantsto bite right back.
But then I'm like felt like youknow, there's a part of me that
like wants to bite right back,but then I'm like is this gonna
go well?
It's almost like does this fitwith me and my personality
online and my?
You know the vibe I've createdlike, uh, I've, I've just tried
to take almost the high road andbeen like, yeah, if somebody
says something, I literally justtop of mind because a couple

(53:33):
days ago, somebody on my youtubeyoutube can be a a hotbed for
goofy comments so I bit rightback on one of them.
I was like wait a minute, Icaught myself.
I was like I don't need.
I think I was just in a bit ofa flustered mood at that point,
and I think that's important toremember too is like our states
change.
As a human, sometimes we're inpeace mode and things are great,

(53:54):
and sometimes you're justaggravated, you're tired or
you're cranky, like I got toremember, don't look at my
YouTube comments when I'mfeeling cranky.
Save those for a better state.

Yeah, don't, yeah, don't, do that, cause we
even within human design, youcan see how you make decisions
and if you're in a high oryou're, that's just not where
you want to make them from.
But again, it's like it isabout taking, like when people
react, that actually gives me ared flag, because then I'm like,
oh so, if I'm in like acoaching relationship with you
and you're reacting hotheadedtowards this one comment, I

(54:28):
can't even imagine how you'regoing to treat me in a
one-to-one, you knowrelationship.
So it is very important, likehow, how you promote yourself
and then, and also how youdefend yourself, are very
crucial in how you are beingperceived online.
And again, if you are in alight like you, being hotheaded
and responding like an asshole,that's not that.

(54:49):
Maybe that was your truth inthe moment, but that's not your
true core identity or true coreintegrity of how you want to
exist in the world.
So why are you making a choiceto show up in that way, right?
Does that make sense?

Josh Hall (55:00):
Oh, absolutely.
I couldn't agree more, and Ithink it's a good challenge for
everyone in this online world,especially if we have social
media and we're public, ifanything is public.
Also, to remember, thosecomments aren't going to
disappear, especially if a postis getting reshared or pops up
on feeds.
Like you do need to be carefulabout how you respond, and I

(55:22):
think there's certainly a way tostand up for yourself and be
stern, but also do it maybe noteven with love, but with
helpfulness, like, uh, thatcomment on my YouTube it's funny
because I actually and itwasn't, it wasn't terrible and
it wasn't something where I waslike viciously getting back, but
I was just a little snarky.
And then, literally just acouple hours afterwards, I was

(55:42):
like ah, I was like I think thisvideo is actually going to get
a lot of traction and I don'twant that comment to be the one
that stands out.
So I edited it.
I was like hey, I was likeactually.
I was like well, yes, you knowthat that's kind of true what
you said.
I don't agree with all of it,but here's, you know, here's why
I did this, or what I thinkabout this.
So, and then he actuallyresponded back and was like a

(56:02):
lot nicer the second time.
So it just showed me if I didn'tedit it maybe he would have saw
that like wow, josh is likeactually a jerk, but no, like I
took a bit of the higher road onthat one.
Yeah, I just love that we'retalking about this because these
are really important thingsthat are very small and very
micro but add up and make areally big impact.
Like my student who said Ididn't think anything of it, I

(56:24):
probably laid that comment outand responded back to that
negative one without eventhinking about it.
And then who knew?
One of my first students wouldbe somebody who saw that and was
like, wow, that was the singlething that you know really
helped me completely trust you,to invest in you.

Yeah, and you never know, like you just never
know what's going to make thatone decision for someone to buy
from you either.
So it's like showing up andlike your utmost integrity is
always going to be the way toshow up what about salesy?

Josh Hall (56:53):
What about sales approach?
Because I see a lot ofintroverts and a lot of my
community members who are like Ilove designing, and I think
this is really common withpeople who are creatives you
love creating, you love doingthe work, but, man, do you hate
selling it?
Um, I mean, right, like I feel,like most people in the
creative zones whether it'sbrand designers, graphic

(57:14):
designers, web this is like thebiggest thing is we love
creating, we don't love selling.
How do you encourage people tosell without, yeah, there's
still being authentic and notbeing the sweaty used car
salesman profile?

I mean, I think it's for me the reframe that
I've had to do.
It's like it's not it isselling but not using the word
selling.
It's like it's not it isselling but not using the word
selling.
It's like I'm literally showingpeople how I can help them with
the products that I can.
I can help you, I can help yourproblems and transform them
into your desires.
That's how I think about youknow, showing up and talking

(57:50):
about like what I, what I do.
But again, this is the firstyear that I've started to sell
things, right, I've always justbeen referral based, and so it
is this whole year.
My keyword was unrecognizableand so how can I show up in a
way that is uncomfortable enoughand doing different things to
produce different types ofresults, and show up differently

(58:12):
because I want to be more seenand more of an expert and niche
in the, in my, in the brandingworld, in the human design world
, in the business world?
And it's like how can we, howcan, how, who do I need to be to
show up in that?
Right, and so selling?
It's like, okay, well, I for me, I'm like okay, well, I'm just
going to share what I do becauseI can support people from.
If they're in point A, point a,I can move them to point c.

(58:33):
Right, and c is the desire anda is the pain, right?
How did you go about selling?

Josh Hall (58:39):
yeah, it's changed so much.
I mean very similarly, my webdesign business was largely
referral based, so I similarlyyeah, very, very similar cheers,
like I didn't really need tolike do too many, I did no cold
calling or cold approaches, itwas all warm leads I will never
do cold.

I will never do cold.

Josh Hall (58:57):
I will never do cold man.
I mean it's funny because Ihave a couple of members who do
it and they like it and I'm likeI applaud you for enjoying that
.
I just can't imagine wanting todo that.
That'd be like the last, likecold calling, would be the
literal last thing I would everdo to get a web design client.

Literally the same and based off of my energy
type.
I'm here to wait for theinvitation, not to initiate
these conversations, like if youdon't see me yet then you're
not going to know.
You're not going to like,appreciate and recognize my
gifts.

Josh Hall (59:27):
Yeah, it's so true.
I mean and there is adifference between making your
services known and then using alittle bit of a push and pull to
like get people to take action.
I mean the thing with salesthat I've learned whether
they're cold or whether they'rewarm or whether they're hot, is
there needs to be something toget them to take action?

(59:50):
In some cases, like for peoplewho need branding or logo design
or graphic design or web designhelp, usually it's like okay, I
need a new website.
That's often going to be enoughto get them to move forward.
You could also do it withdiscounts and promos and limited
access or booking.
You could have on and offbooking.
There's all these differentstrategies for it.
But yeah, similarly it's kindof funny because it's what I do

(01:00:10):
now I don't have an open andclosed model on my community and
it's open all the timecurrently.
That's going to change for mycoaching tier, just because I'm
nearly at capacity with that.
So that's going to move to awaitlist here soon.
But other than that, I reallydon't.
I don't use any of the pressuretactics.
The only thing I will do is Ihave tried to just give people

(01:00:34):
the nudge with usually aone-month promotion thing I will
do is I have tried to just givepeople the nudge with like uh,
usually like a one monthpromotion, I'll say, like your
first month is 50% off for thesetiers.
Um, I've been like I'm kind ofin the middle of that right now.
Honestly, lindsay is like it'sso funny because I've had so
many members join recently thatsay I've been listening to your
podcast for two years, listeningto your podcast for two years,

(01:00:54):
listening to your podcast fortwo years, and I always knew I
was going to join.
I finally did and I'm like whatthe hell am I doing different
now that I wasn't doing twoyears ago?
You know like what?

Lindsey Freeman (01:01:06):
what?
What am I missing?
Cause I don't remember doingthat much different, but they
just wanted to make sure you'dstay around long enough and
that's fair, and that's that'svery, very fair.

Josh Hall (01:01:12):
Um, but yeah, there is that like I struggle with
that too, which is like I reallydon't want to sell to somebody,
like here's what I do.
Here's the proof.

I'm so good at what I do, just pay me, thank
you.

Josh Hall (01:01:27):
Yeah, we may have to have a followup, like how do you
sell without breaking the likeI mean, this is so common with
folks who do webinars which isthey'll teach, and then they're
super comfortable.
And then it's like, oh God,here comes a slide with the
sales, oh, there's a promo code.
I'm so nervous.
And then I remember the firstcouple of webinars I did and I'm
like, by the way, if you wantto, I have this course, don't

(01:01:54):
worry about it, you don't haveto join it, but it'd be a good
next step.
Now I'm so much more confidentand like okay, this is a free
stuff, but if you really want togo deeper, here we go.
This is where you're going toget the results.
But man, early on, that's sohard.

That is so hard because you're too.
Not only are you like, no, youwill get value, you're also
proving to yourself that you dooffer value.
There's like, honestly, mindsetis so key in business, and like
creating the offers and sellingand all of that.
It's really about like, do youbelieve in yourself?
Do you believe you are worthyof the success that you, that
you want?
And once you get those, likewhen you get really confident

(01:02:28):
with those things, I think itjust is like no, I know I am the
anecdote to your problem.
It's the clothes.

Josh Hall (01:02:36):
It's the close.
It's the close that's so danghard in the sales problem.
The sales process could gothrough multiple iterations and
people could be with you for apretty extended period of a
sales process, but yeah, it'slike the moment, it's like when
they're paying you.
It's the actual close.
Especially if it's a service,where you're like on a call or
you give them a proposal thatneeds to be signed within seven

(01:02:57):
days or something like.
That's where, yeah, the, the,the close itself is where I
think the interesting challengeis staying true to yourself but
also giving urgency, being sternin a way that's like confident
that's.
I guess that's it, yeah.

There's something to, or it's like you,
kind of like that's, I guess,that's it.
Yeah, there's something too.
Or it's like you, kind of likethere's a trust factor too, like
you just have to be like itwill.
If it's meant to be, it willhappen, as well as, like you, if
you've done all those tactics,it's like you can't push people
into it and because you mightjust get a client you hate too
if you do it, that really likegross, like salesy way and like,
yeah, and you don't want peopleto regret a purchase right,
especially if you're about towork with them, like you don't

(01:03:37):
want someone signing on for abranding package, and they're
like, oh, dang it you forced meto do this.
I'm like what You're at your ownwill, but a lot of people don't
aren't in radical like likeresponsibility either.
So it's it is fascinating, thesales.
Have you taken a bunch of salescourses out of curiosity?
No, you haven't.

Josh Hall (01:03:57):
I'm just like.
I literally have not taken asingle.
I've never read a book on sales.
I have not taken a course onsales.
It is remarkable that I providefor my family because I have
not.
I mean, yeah, I mean I should,I should have, I probably should
.
I mean I guess I have.
I've read a couple.
I've read some books that aresales-ish, but it's more

(01:04:19):
marketing versus like a close.
It's just interesting becausesales are so different as a
service provider, like a webonetalking with somebody, or you're
in a small group, um, themindset is completely different

(01:04:39):
versus I'm doing.
I'm doing a lot of selling nowvia my podcast without even
making it.
It's not a sales call like this.
This is a sales call in a lotof ways, um, so yeah, it's kind
of interesting.
Now I selling uh, what's theword I'm looking for On
indirectly.

(01:05:00):
I guess indirect sales is kindof your community though.
Yes, for sure.
I mean that my biggestconverter, honestly, is bringing
community community members upinto my podcast and we just talk
about their journey, theirexperience.
I don't sell a dang thing, Ijust ask them questions out of
curiosity.
Inevitably they're like oh myGod, pros helped me out with

(01:05:21):
this, the community, yourcoaching, whatever, which is
just the best Side noteeverybody can do that with
customers, like interview yourcustomers, interview your
customers, interview yourcustomers Low sales, low
pressure, you don't?
Yeah, I mean, that's just,that's one of the easiest ways.
And then you have a testimonialyou can put on your website.

And I've seen a lot of people do paid like
they're doing paid podcasts forlike a series of like 10
different podcasts to transformyour sales launch or whatever.
And in there they're havingactual podcasts someone who's
already taken the course and I'mlike that is so genius.
It's exactly what you just said, but they're actually charging
like $37 for this course andthen you get upselled into the

(01:06:01):
30 or $3,000 program and you'relike oh, so you're also getting
paid for the sale.

Josh Hall (01:06:08):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, and I do think at scale,that's probably a good way to go
with low-end offers to whereit's like, yeah, that's a
no-brainer, you know 27 bucks,37 bucks, and then, as long as
it resonates and you like thevibe and it's good, then it's
like, okay, much more likely todo that three thousand dollar
purchase if you have even someskin in the game with even it's

(01:06:31):
27 bucks.

yeah and it goes back to the testimonials of
the robot website.
I went on.
I'm like, oh well, he must bereal.
We got real people talking tothe camera.

Josh Hall (01:06:41):
I mean, I can't stress the importance of
standing out nowadays and justbeing real, and there's so many.
What are some other ways youcould be real?
I mean that, like um, I call itlike a founder's note on on
your website, which is just,like you know, meet who's behind
this brand.
If you don't you said itearlier you don't know, like

(01:07:02):
that website, you have no ideawho is behind that.

Not even an about page.

Josh Hall (01:07:07):
Yeah, is it a team?
Is it a person?
Is it completely AI?
Like, now more than ever, getyourself on your homepage, do a
video, do a little walkthroughvideo.
I mean get yourself on yourhomepage, do a video, do a
little walkthrough video.
I mean you look at your websiteand it's very, very clear who
is behind this.
Like this is not a.
I'm on every page, yeah, and Idon't think there's anything
wrong with that.
I think web designers inparticular may feel like that's

(01:07:28):
vain or, yeah, like you're justputting yourself out there too
much, but it's important toremember too.
A lot of people will not end upon your homepage.
They may end up on another page.
So any other tips or tricksthat you help clients out with
with just showing up,particularly on your website,
like being real and being you onyour website.

I think it just comes back to like, what are
you actually here?
What are you trying to?
How are you trying to servepeople?
That's why we start ourbusinesses.
We're here to serve otherpeople.
So how can we get really clearas to why that matters to us?
Right, and so I do think thatabout page is like one of the
most important pages that youhave.
And then going again into like,not that you have to get on
Instagram, but how can they seeyou in video and inform, because

(01:08:10):
they like, if I'm talking toyou, like they're going to be
like, oh, as soon as I can getsomeone to sit across from me,
that is when the magic actuallyhappens, right, and so when they
can actually hear your voiceand like, see your mannerisms
and, you know, hear how you talk, like that's where they're like
, oh God, I feel like I'vealready worked with her.
I'm already working with her.
Or like, oh gosh, someone noted.
I feel really warm in herpresence.
Okay, this is someone.

(01:08:31):
If I'm ready to then take theplunge into branding, I'm going
to look at what Lindsay's doing,right, so I think it's just how
can, if you are talking outloud to your friend, write that
on your website make it soundlike you, because that's the
worst is like if you're readingmy website and then we're on
this call and you're like Whoa,that's not the person.

(01:08:52):
So that's, that's a problem,that's the big branding problem.
Right there there's aninconsistency.

Josh Hall (01:08:58):
I love that.
Also, when it comes to likeheadlines, I couldn't agree more
.
Um, there's always a you know,not a debate, but everyone,
especially web designers andbrand designers alike, struggle
with like what should myheadline be?
And I've just more and more sogotten to the point where it's
like yeah, whatever you wouldsay to clients if you're in a
networking group and somebodyasks you, what do you do?

(01:09:19):
If you say, like I always said,I build awesome websites, it
was a simple one that was it.
I mean that could.
There could not be more of likea classic midwestern.
Like some people may sayawesome isn't very professional,
but no, but that's people foryou.
I made a six-figure businessdoing saying I build awesome
websites, so like it.

(01:09:40):
It really it worked for me andsome people are a little more
articulate or a little morecrafty or or niched or
particular, but, um, yeah, Iguess I just I couldn't agree
more to in in words and visualson pages to show up on your
website.
You said that the about page islikely the most important.

(01:10:01):
I can back you up on that withstats.
The second most popular page onmy website was our about page,
my team page.
People want to know who'sbehind it.
First was portfolio.
They want to see the work, theywant to see what you do and
then they want to see who theheck's doing it.
Side note, lindsay, do you haveanalytic?
Um like?
Do you look at clientsanalytics or page views or

(01:10:22):
anything like that in yourpackages?
Um, no, I do not.
I just feel like that would bea huge selling point for you in
your branding, even if you werejust to get access to like a
handful.
So I did.
I always get into like coachmode by the end of a podcast
interview.
But I do feel like if, look, ifI were in the branding world, I

(01:10:43):
would say the way you, you know,put yourself online on your
website.
Like most people don't know,your most popular page or your
second most popular page is yourabout page.
And here are the stats.
Look at our client.
Look at their page views.
This is their.
Their second most popular pageis your about page, and here are
the stats.
Look at our client.
Look at their page views.
This is their second mostpopular page.
It's their about page.
Yeah, I just, I see a lot ofpeople.

(01:11:03):
It's like an afterthought, theabout page is the afterthought.
It's like, well, let me do myhomepage and my services and
then we'll do the about page.
Oh, and then we'll do thecontact page.
It's like, oh, you mean likethe two pages that are most
important to get paid, who am Igoing to work with?

(01:11:24):
And then you know, click tomove forward or pay.
Like, yeah, those need to haveabsolute priority.
There's like three or fourpages that need priority on most
websites.

But well, in the branding process, I'm like
we're excavating who you are.
Your about page is absolutelyone of the most important pages
because if you are sellingone-to-one services, they need
to have a good sense of who youare.
Or like I don't want to workwith someone I don't like.
It's just not going to happen.

Josh Hall (01:11:45):
Yeah, don't like, don't trust, don't know.

Don't know.
Are you a robot?

Josh Hall (01:11:49):
Yeah, I mean no like and trust is so corporate and so
cheesy and so dated, but it'salso so relevant, like it's so
true.
Couldn't be more relevant todaythan ever.

Yeah, especially in the world of AI.

Josh Hall (01:12:03):
Well, Lindsay, this has been awesome.
What a fast hour plus this is.
I really, really I really loveyour vibe too.
Right from the get go.
We hit it off.
So, speaking of your website,not AI at all Tell us about
where they should folks shouldgo to connect with you, and then
I think you've got some freeresources as well, right, yes,
yes.

So connect with me.
I'm designed to be humancom.
If you're interested in thehuman design portion, you can go
to design to be humancom.
Forward slash HD chart and youcan pull up your unique energy
type.
And then I'm also offering 20%off my big brand energy program.
So just feel free to DM me bigbrand energy, and on at it's

(01:12:44):
Lindsay Freeman, and we'll getyou set up.
Send you the links.

Josh Hall (01:12:48):
Listen to that confident pitch at the end.
Confident close Can you buy my.

I'm just kidding.

Josh Hall (01:12:55):
You can if you want to, no big deal.

No big deal, I'm not even coming to the
website, it's fine.

Josh Hall (01:13:02):
This is great.
We'll have all that linked inthe show notes, of course.
So, listen, is there anythingat you know when we, when we
hang up the call here, you'regoing to be like dang, I wish I
would have mentioned that.
Is there any?
I want to give you a lastclosing thought.
Is there anything that wehaven't hit on that you think
would be really helpful?
When it comes to this?
I don't know what to call thispodcast episode.

(01:13:22):
Ironically, I'm going to haveto use AI to help me, but we
talked about a lot of differentthings.
Anything else that you're likewe should hit on this?

I think just the last key insight or thing I
want to say is that honor yourtruth in everything that you do
and the more that you can makedecisions from who you uniquely
are and be in celebration ofyour uniqueness, that is where
you're really going to createthat magnetism and build that
business and build the servicesof products that are really
going to help the people thatyou're meant to help, and so
that's like the biggest thing.
It's like let's get morecurious about ourselves.

Josh Hall (01:14:01):
Boom.
Well said, All right.
Lindsay, thanks so much forcoming on.
I really enjoyed the chat.

Yeah, I'll talk to you later.
Bye.

Josh Hall (01:14:10):
Fun, one right, very different for the show, but I
think it's very, very worthwhile.
Building a business that worksaround you, your energy, the
feeling that you get when it'sSunday night and you're about to
start the week have you setyour business up to make Sunday
nights fun?
That's the real question.
Or you know, monday morning'sfun and Sunday night a joy,

(01:14:31):
because you're like, ooh, I'mexcited to dive in.
That's what I want for you.
That's truly what I hope thatyou got from this conversation,
so would love to hear yourthoughts.
You can go to joshhallco slashthree, eight, five to drop a
comment.
There is all of the links andresources in the show notes for
this episode.
Again, joshhallco slash three,eight, five.
There will be links to connectwith Lindsay on Instagram and a
couple other platforms, and youcan go to her website,

(01:14:53):
designedtobehumancom, and she'sgot some freebies there for you,
along with some other resourcesthat I hope will help you out.
All right, friends, staysubscribed.
A lot of other doozies here onthe way.
In fact, we've got some verybig episodes coming this summer,
so I can't wait to releasethose here soon.
Cheers, friends.

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385 - Designing Your Business Around You with Lindsey Freeman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}385 - Designing Your Business Around You with Lindsey Freeman