December 31, 2024 • 58 mins
Welcome to Episode 55 of the Wed.Co Podcast. Today, Toga sits down with Steven from the the critical importance of establishing effective business systems for creatives. This was filmed live from Love Buzz on the Gold Coast
In this conversation, Steven from the Wedding Marketing Co shares his journey through the wedding industry, highlighting the challenges faced in marketing and securing bookings. He discusses the importance of adapting to new marketing strategies, building trust with clients, and effectively communicating through various channels.
The conversation emphasizes the need for a clear unique selling proposition and the significance of follow-up communication in converting leads into clients.
In this conversation, Steve Toga discusses the critical importance of establishing effective business systems for creatives, particularly in the wedding industry. He emphasizes the need for clear communication with clients, the art of conducting client calls, and the significance of follow-up systems to maintain engagement.
Steven also highlights the necessity of qualifying leads and setting expectations during the sales process. Furthermore, he explores marketing strategies and the value of building a supportive community for wedding professionals to share knowledge and resources.
Takeaways
- The wedding industry is facing significant marketing challenges.
- Adapting to new marketing strategies is crucial for success.
- Building trust with clients is essential in the wedding business.
- Effective communication can significantly improve lead conversion.
- Landing pages should be clear and focused to avoid distractions.
- Identifying what makes your business unique is vital for attracting clients.
- Follow-up communication is often neglected but can lead to more bookings.
- Utilizing multiple contact methods increases the chances of engagement.
- Understanding your client avatar helps in targeting the right audience.
- Marketing is fundamentally about communicating value to potential clients. The best photographers often excel in business and communication.
- Having a clear system in place reduces confusion for clients.
- Follow-up communication is crucial for maintaining client relationships.
- Qualifying leads helps ensure a good fit between client and service provider.
- Effective communication is essential in the service industry.
- Locking in the next appointment during calls is vital for the sales process.
- Treating clients as people fosters better relationships.
- Providing information helps clients make informed decisions.
- Building a community can enhance knowledge sharing in the industry.
- Marketing strategies should be tailored to the specific needs of the wedding industry.
If you want to hear more from Steven and the Wedding Marketing Co you can get more info at https://weddingmarketingco.com/ and on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/weddingmarketing.co/
Your support enables us to bring more enriching conversations and insights to both engaged couples and wedding professionals.
Stay connected with us on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/wed.copodcast and watch all your favorite wedding professionals on our YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@Wed.CoPodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Wedco podcast where wedding wisdom meets street smarts.
We're dishing out all the tips, tricks and wedding goss to take your wedding to the nextlevel.
Time to ditch the formalities and get this party started.
Alright, thanks so much for everyone coming down.
(00:23):
Really appreciate it.
This is cool to be able to see some beautiful faces here again and some new faces too.
I just wanted to bring Stephen down to kind of hang out with us today.
My story is that pretty much in June this year, I had one wedding booked for 2025 and Iwas like stressing my head off.
I definitely have enough work outside of weddings to kind of keep going, but I wasdefinitely freaking out big time.
(00:48):
And so everything I had kind of done for the last 10 years was definitely not workinganymore.
And a lot of people I was speaking to in the industry, when I could actually speak to themand we weren't at a social event and everyone's like, yeah, everything's amazing.
You know, they kind of said like a lot of people were feeling pretty similar to the waythat I was feeling.
so I got an Instagram ad come across my feed.
(01:08):
You did really well there.
Thank you.
Thank you.
yeah, so see you from the, yeah, the wedding marketing co.
and honestly, I was at the point where I was like, I need to throw money at this and Ineed to book two weddings to pay for it unless I'm screwed.
And like, that's kind of where I was at.
and yeah, I was just like, it's coming from like this.
(01:31):
fear mentality, but I was just like, well, I need to do something or us.
What do I do from here?
And then, yes, I contacted these guys.
This is kind of why I wanted to have them up as well.
Cause obviously there's a million different marketing and advertising agencies everywhere.
I just had to take the leap and you guys are honestly the ad that came across when I wasready to take the leap.
And then I saw you guys, I was like, cool, let's just go.
(01:53):
So yeah, I just kind of wanted to bring you down here and well, obviously I don't know ifyou know, like things have changed a lot for me.
And I don't know, like it's hard for me to justify, like, is it, I don't think my work'soverly, you know, exceptional above any other photographer whatsoever.
There's a lot better photographers out there.
Is it the podcast is helping out a lot?
But the difference is, is like I've had now 24 weddings in the last four months, it's like140 grams worth of work.
(02:19):
I've had to pay money for that, which in the past I haven't.
So it kind of felt bittersweet at the start where you're like, cool, you know, I'm goingto spend 1500 bucks every single month.
to get this work and in the past you kind of didn't have to you just kind of did whateveryou did like share on Facebook or boost a post for 50 bucks here and then you kind of get
bookings.
But it's kind of been a big shift for me I guess I've got to run this like a business inthis day and age or else I'm going to be left behind.
(02:43):
So I just wanted to bring Stephen to have a little bit chat about MetaAds and what theyspecialise in.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thanks everyone for coming and that's a really powerful story.
So I really do appreciate you sharing that as well.
I'm glad we could help.
Everyone has pretty much experienced that same thing as well as have I.
If you guys don't know, I run my own wedding photo video business as well and I had thesame struggles, not getting consistent leads and things like that.
(03:08):
But I started my business in 2018 doing photo.
the odd photo video job, picking out marketing jobs, businesses, cafes and things likethat.
And where are you from?
Newcastle.
Yeah.
So I in, I grew up on the central coast and just service the Hunter Valley now for, forweddings.
But, know, I pretty quickly got into the field of weddings in 2019.
(03:31):
I realized it was, it was fun.
It was profitable and you can make a fair bit of money doing that while having a goodtime.
So.
I started to pick that up.
I really shifted my whole business to just do weddings in 2019, but then COVID hit.
I kind of shut everything off and made it a little bit of an issue with getting no work.
(03:53):
So I come out of COVID and I'm sure you would have experienced this.
You've got a massive slump of work.
Everyone came through and made it really easy.
You didn't have to do any work to get the weddings.
So I had that same experience.
I booked 65 weddings for 2022.
I do photo and video.
I was getting team members to shoot the other position.
(04:13):
Now I was editing everything myself.
So I edited 65 photo video weddings in 2022.
And by the end of that, I was like, fuck this.
I'm not doing this again.
It was just way too much.
It was so much stress.
And at the peak of my backlog, it was like, I had 25 video edits to do and it was sixmonths turnaround.
So this is not feasible.
(04:34):
Right.
So at that point I was like, I'm either going to reshift my whole business.
or I'm just going to leave.
I'm going to leave the wedding industry.
So I started to think a bit more about business, a bit more about my systems and figureout how I can actually think about this as an actual business.
Think about the systems I can implement to scale this a little bit smarter.
(04:54):
So shortly after doing that, I hired my first editor who's still a part of my team.
He's been on my team for 18 months now.
And that gave me the time to focus on the systems that I needed to actually implement.
Like in-house in Australia or do you have you got He's overseas.
Yeah, but he's full-time.
Well, he was overseas now he's in Sydney actually So he moved over but yeah, like I justpay him a full-time wage and he works for me and I did you know a six month training
(05:23):
period to get him up to scratch and I haven't edited a wedding film since that point Soit's was allowed me to you know, take my hands off and realize okay He's editing just as
good as I was I trained him up in the exact way that I was able
to learn the ropes myself and he's doing the same work.
So now I have time to think about systems, I have time to think about how I can scale mybusiness.
(05:45):
So that was about October last year.
And since that point, I focused on getting more bookings, a little bit of ads, and then Icame to Nithu, who is my business partner, and we worked on this system for Wedding
Marketing Co.
for my other business.
And since that point, I booked 500K worth of weddings in that 13th month period.
(06:07):
All we did was figure out a system that worked, implement that, and that's just the exactsame system that you use as well for obviously ads coming through.
And that's what I'm going to kind of get into today.
So yeah, it's all you need to do in business is find what works, you know, use theinformation that you get like you would have.
You would have seen the ads come through, leads come through.
(06:28):
Now you're figuring out what works with communicating with leads and things like that.
I've never had that problem where I've never had enough leads and I could actually learnhow to sell.
like, it just gets so hard.
I'm like, shit, a lead.
And now it's like actually getting, you know, enough leads.
can like actually start to see what works and what doesn't work.
Which that's a whole new thing for me.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like Steve calls me and then we go, I got 10 leads.
(06:50):
Where did that come from?
But yeah, look, all ads are is just getting eyeballs to your business.
It doesn't really change like leads.
You're like, it's just more eyeballs.
So.
Without the rest of the systems that you actually have to build, like exactly what I'llget into today by giving value, giving people information.
You're not going to book things if you don't have all the other groundwork done.
(07:11):
If you get more eyeballs to it, like an underperforming business that doesn't give peoplevalue or doesn't allow people to understand what you do quickly, you're just kind of
spending money for nothing.
So you need to make sure that you first, if you're going to advertise, you need to makesure that you communicate what you do effectively to people for sure.
Yeah, there's those emails I get from you through like hey, can you do this for me and Irecord this in front of here?
(07:32):
like, yeah Yeah, exactly.
I like putting your face in front of a camera like is just a very good way to build trust,right?
So that's a piece of I guess one of our systems, you know getting in front of camera likeAlina did as well You know get in front of the camera build the trust for your for your
customers They get a bit of an understanding of what you're like immediately.
(07:54):
and that kind of just builds that
rapport so people can understand a bit more about you.
But before I kind of get too far into the systems, that is a very vital part that everyoneshould understand as well.
We have to build trust with people because they're planning their wedding with us.
It's a huge thing.
They're spending a lot of money.
That's a big responsibility.
(08:15):
So we need to build that trust immediately when someone looks at our website, looks at ourlanding page, or looks at our ad.
Because otherwise, they're just going to look for someone else who has that trust.
And if you are going to go down the route of ads, and a really easy way to do that is geton camera or, you know, actually be in the flesh at a wedding with a bride and groom next
to you, showing that you are doing exactly what you say you are.
(08:38):
And we really need to lean heavily into social proof.
I like the reviews and things, is having to scrape back all the weddings you've done andget those reviews so you actually can show up and.
Tell people who are going through your systems, going through your business, looking atyour business, what the past couples have actually looked at and what they've done, how
(09:00):
they've experienced the day with you.
So all of that is so, so important before you even think about actually advertising.
We need to have.
Like, cause you didn't have any reviews before you came to us and you had to go throughit.
great homework for me to do to like do this, this, this, this, was like, okay, cool.
Cause like, otherwise you are, I feel like even if you have ads turned on, but you don'thave all that other stuff, you're just going to be kind of wasting money.
(09:21):
Yeah.
Cause like people can see the ads, then they're probably not going to click or anythinglike that.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, if without giving a clear expectation for someone to know where to go next onthat ad as well, if you're just throwing someone to your homepage, for instance, they're
not going to know what to do next.
Or if you're just going to Instagram, if you're boosting a post, you know, I always getjust lost in reels.
(09:42):
I would not look like click on an ad and then go through the finals, trying to figure outwhat to do next.
If I was on someone's Instagram.
So every part of the journey, if you're doing ads or if you're even on Instagram, you wantto lead someone to that next point, tell them what to do.
So when someone looks at your business, they shouldn't have to think, okay, what, what amI trying to do in this next point?
(10:02):
Should be coming to them by saying, this is what you need to do next.
in our journey or this is the next piece of information, you should understand about ourbusiness, this is how we show up to these weddings and things like that.
It's so important to take the guesswork out of people's journey through you.
It's so transparent for us.
Like when I see, when I like sign up for a course and they're kind of running you throughthat whole landing page, you're like, I know exactly what you're doing.
(10:27):
You you're telling me all about like how good this course will be and this is how goodthey did with the course and this is how much money you'll make.
And you know exactly what they're doing.
But also like your clients probably aren't seeing stuff like that every single day.
So they're just seeing they're like, this is awesome.
And like kind of working through the funnel.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I hope they're not planning a wedding every single day.
I hope they haven't been to as many weddings as we have.
So they shouldn't have this experience with.
(10:49):
that we obviously do.
In the industry, we see all these images and we see other people's work and things likethat.
But it's just so important to set that next expectation in the journey.
I like to think of this whole experience as like a river, right?
So each part of the journey, so your ad is the start of the river.
Each part, your landing page is the next part.
You want to set that next expectation.
(11:10):
So if you don't, the river splits into like five different areas because people get lostin Instagram, they get lost on your service page, about page contact, like...
give them everything they need to make a very clear objective so you don't lose leads.
Because if you throw 10 different links at them, you're just going to lose people that getdistracted.
might have their kid come up and they're lost in their drain of thought, or someone mightcall them or something like that, and they don't know where they're actually up to.
(11:36):
So that's why a landing page is so important, and that's a vital part of Wedding MarketingCo.
So obviously, I run Wedding Marketing Co.
with my business partner, Nithu and Bryce.
Nithu runs a marketing agency as well.
Obviously you're one of our clients too.
So we've built this system off of my business, what has worked over last seven years andwhat we've kind of proved to actually work.
(11:57):
And one of that like very vital pieces is a landing page.
Do many people know about landing pages here?
Like is this fresh to some people?
Yeah, so a landing page essentially is your whole website coming from an ad just put onone page.
So you don't want things that are too distracting so people can...
(12:17):
go off, you don't want external links, you just want everyone to be on one page.
is that like a hidden page on your website?
Yeah, can be.
I just don't have to link it to anywhere else.
Just a hidden page is fine.
But you're linking that to the ad so that they have the expectation of clicking the ad.
Now they're on the landing page.
And on that landing page, you just want to fill someone in with the whole journey abouteither booking with you, what makes you different, you know, what they should expect with
(12:43):
actually going with you, how you actually show up to your weddings.
which is something that we built for you as well.
And have you found that that's been really helpful?
I think it has to, because even Al and I have kind of compared.
We run pretty similar ads, and then even Al will kind of have a click through, but thenactually people going and filling out the information and actually submitting the lead is
(13:03):
a lot, lot like...
really noticeably less.
And that's what I'm trying to figure out is I'm always trying to justify what's working.
And that's, think the landing page is the big one.
Because probably more people are clicking through with your ad, but then way more peopleare actually filling out the contact form and everything on the landing page.
Yeah, I might have like 30 to 40.
(13:25):
people click through, but then to actually fill it out.
And I think like what you said, if there's not a clear journey the whole way down, youlose them.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's been word of mouth for so many years.
And I would still say that's the majority of weddings that I book is word of mouth andfrom past clients and past couples.
(13:46):
But yeah, definitely like looking at Steve's going like, wow, he's never seen these peoplebefore.
They're all new eyes on the Yeah, so like cold leads coming through.
and they're actually inquiring, which is epic.
Because they would never come through.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, that could also maybe be an ad thing as well.
Because with an ad, I'm not sure how deep you've looked at the data.
(14:07):
Because obviously you have access to your ads manager.
But we don't need a bucket full of leads or a bucket full people coming through.
We just need highly qualified leads.
And with that, that comes down to the person you're actually speaking to in the actual ad.
So you want to be speaking to the right person.
So obviously we figured out your client avatar.
We're just speaking to that one person that you're trying to get that wedding for and youdon't need to talk to the masses and do like a shotgun approach because that's why a
(14:33):
landing page does work so well because they've already seen that previous expectation inthe ad and you're showing up in the exact same way on that landing page.
So the conversion rate doesn't change because they know exactly what to do next.
So the ad still feels like you, the landing page still feels like you.
It's just getting to highly qualified traffic is the main thing because speaking exactlyabout like what you do, how you show up in the ad really is beneficial to that.
(15:00):
Yeah.
So I guess there's a couple of things that you need to consider about ads.
It's about building that trust and like, I guess, urgency and making sure that you kind ofset the expectations of what you do and how you do it.
And also building a really good offer is important.
So like everybody here does something different in their business to each other.
Like we all do photo, we all do video, but to a client without extracting what you dodifferent, they kind of all look the same.
(15:28):
Except for the absolute top of the industry, it meshes into together pretty effectively.
Without someone who's really deep in the industry, we need to extract what makes usdifferent.
As I said, I have a team, so my difference is I can do everything within four weeks.
So I'm able to highly produce photos and videos and deliver that.
(15:48):
in four weeks.
So an offer just extracts what makes you different.
We figured out your offer.
What makes you different to everybody else that catches someone at its attention?
And then you can sell them on the experience once they come through to that landing page.
I think that's a hard part for everyone because everyone's like, I'm not special.
know, like everyone feels the same thing.
Like, yeah, I know I'm good at photo, I'm good at video, but then everyone's like, butlike, what's different?
(16:10):
Yeah, I can be bubbly and I can kind of run a day and everything, but it's really hard tokind of pinpoint what's.
your selling point is.
And that's why I always struggle with branding.
when you see, you know, like Josh Withers and like even Annie and stuff, like theirbranding is so strong.
I'm like, I'm not that unique, you know, so it's hard, but I feel like it's hard for a lotof people to kind of really pinpoint what that difference is.
Yeah.
And look, that is a really difficult thing to pinpoint if you haven't tried to, you know,go through the paces of figuring that out, but it could just be, you know, if you really
(16:39):
like to be in depth with someone's wedding, you could sell that you
help them plan and things.
So build those info packets, for instance, of timelines, examples and things, and they cancome to you almost like a wedding planner or something like that.
If you like to be really deep in the experience, what you do differently could just be youhelp them plan the whole process and have more conversations rather than just coming up to
(17:01):
the wedding day.
So that's something that could be different or it just could be something like if you dophoto and you wanted to do video, adding on it like a photo video team and having just two
people you work with or something like that.
It is a really difficult thing.
And I think it's interesting like talking, was talking to Sam the other day.
like, cause I reached out to Sam and I love Sam's approach.
(17:22):
He actually helps the couples like from the very start, like right up until the wedding,they know him already because of his marketing.
He's back in.
he's back in so good.
like, he's so like, I love like that we're doing this again, cause I actually met Ben at acoffee catch up like 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago and learning
(17:42):
from each other, hey, what do you do?
And Sam was just encouraging me like, hey, you I send out an email like along the journeyand like you said, it's such a journey into the couple knows what's gonna happen next.
They feel so much more confident in you.
So by the wedding day comes, they're just like, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, that is a perfect example of what makes someone different.
(18:06):
That makes Sam different for instance.
But you know, figuring out.
Beautiful.
But no, like some of those things do take weeks or months to try to figure out but that'swhat, you know.
(18:29):
we kind of do like as well.
It's a difficult process to actually figure out, but everybody does have something thatmakes them different.
It's about how they show up on the day or what they actually do differently to each other.
But it is kind of difficult because of grand scheme of things like we are just kind oftaking photos or taking videos, but that everybody has something that they can lean on to
(18:51):
make themselves different.
So leaning on what makes you different and really expressing that through the wholesection of your business is super important.
allows you to stand out from everybody else.
I guess then people talk about that experience too with others.
Yeah, exactly.
And then word starts to spread and things.
So I guess before you start ads, you need to make sure that you obviously figure out thatdifference as well.
(19:14):
And then make sure that the rest of the funnel I'm going to run through today is kind ofdown pat.
Otherwise you'll just be speaking to no one essentially.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
One of the most important things, and you would know this because of the increase ofbookings, is actually communicating to our customers.
Like a lot of people, I don't know, I think it's a bit of like an ego thing, maybe wethink our photos and videos are too good, but people don't follow up in this industry, and
(19:38):
we know this because we've had people come to us and they say that they never follow upwith anyone.
They just send out the pricing guide and info packet and wait for people to come to them.
That's quite unfortunate because it's doing a really big disservice to the people thatactually come to you.
Cause they come to you cause they care about your work.
They care about your information.
They want to learn more.
And you kind of just throwing something at them and just be like, you're not, like you'renot worth my time.
(20:01):
So I had a zoom call with a couple of Monday night and like, still feel gross.
like, I'm trying to sell to them.
But then like halfway through the call, they're like, thank you so much for putting thison.
Yeah.
Like no one else.
Like it's maybe I got two phone calls, but like no one else would offer us a zoom call.
And I like super thankful for that.
Cool.
Yeah, and like it's it feels a bit maybe I guess gross at the start, but I think it's justthe way that you think about it.
(20:24):
Right.
If you shift the mindset to be like, okay, I'm going to talk to my leads.
So what I do is I call every single lead because I want to have that conversation withthem.
And one of two things will happen.
They'll pick up and they'll say that they're busy or they won't pick up.
And if they pick up and they say that they're busy, I'll organize another call or I canactually get them on the phone and actually have that conversation.
So a lot of people maybe feel a bit uncomfortable.
(20:46):
about making those calls and having those conversations.
But every single time that I've talked to someone in my whole seven years of business,I've never had someone blow up at me and get angry that I'm bothering them.
We're just trying to have normal conversations and treat people like humans becausethey're inquiring with you for a reason.
So why would you do them the disservice of not talking to them and communicating withthem?
(21:10):
All marketing is is communicating with people and letting them know what to do next.
That's like a massive flip for most people, myself included, is like, yeah, that you'renot hassling them.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's hard because I know as soon as you like apply for solar and then all of suddenyou get like five calls like that's the only kind of that's the only thing you have to
think of you like, dude, I didn't want any of you to call me.
(21:31):
I just wanted prices, you know, but but like people are inquiring for their wedding day.
So it's definitely a very different thing than getting solar.
And look, it does come down to how you actually do it as well.
Like that you can do it in a sleazy way.
Yeah.
But we've always found that if you're following up with people and say you follow up tothree.
four times, just follow up with a different way of communicating.
(21:54):
Just don't say the same freaking thing.
Four times.
were talking about follow up emails the other day and I realized.
like so many times it will go into junk mail.
So I do have like a, just checking back.
It might've landed in junk mail.
And they're like, my gosh, it's in junk mail.
And here I am just sitting there going, they hate me.
They think I suck.
They've picked Steve, not me.
(22:15):
And like, you know, like you can, you can be so worried about something that if you justfollow up and ask, exactly.
yeah.
Here it is, Al, here's the money.
like.
Yeah, the main thing is just asking like asking if people are busy just calling them likewhen they inquire and just say hey have you got some time to chat the worst that they're
going to do is just say no sorry I'm busy.
One of the biggest things that Steve and I actually put in our thing is like is it okayfor me to give you a call?
(22:42):
mark.
Yeah most of them say yes.
And when they say yes then we don't feel as bad calling them because they've given uspermission and that's really helped me.
Because I FaceTime everyone so I'm like, you want to FaceTime or call?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And since you've started doing that for both of you, has that really picked up thecommunication with people?
I'm still not that good at calling.
Like there'll be days where I'm like...
(23:04):
Yeah, cool.
I'm to call these two or three people and I do, but then there'll be other days where I'mstill like, just, I don't feel like that.
It's just like these, the mood that you're in yourself.
And even though you like know this is the good thing to do, it still doesn't happen allthe time.
But getting better, like building up with that.
Yeah, for sure.
And look, it just comes with reps.
Like it comes with doing it over and over again.
But in your experience, have you had people come back to you in a bad way at all?
(23:27):
No, no, never.
Exactly.
Like it's just your own perception of dealing with some dickhead in the past.
That's all it is.
On the opposite end.
You don't feel like that you're bothering them.
But a simple way to do that is just treat people like humans.
know, like they're coming to you because they want to have those conversations.
They want more information.
So if we're just asking them simple questions about their wedding day and when we get themon the phone, asking them questions and getting them to talk, like you're not going to
(23:53):
come across as salesy.
I hate this at school, but do mind if we ask like who actually calls leads when they comein?
anyone?
Yep.
Text us.
you know, because they end up in spam.
And I can see in our system that we use if they've opened it.
(24:16):
But then I drew, I send that text message and the amount of conversations that has sparkedif, I've got, then I'll get it.
we've just got that proposal.
And then they'll have, I've got a few questions about this.
then it's, and it's, know, sometimes you're doing admin at nine o'clock at night,depending on whatever.
it's always like, the late time, but I've just let you know, I have gotten back to you.
(24:39):
it has been a day later because we've been at a wedding and the response I've gotten fromthe text message has been better.
I guess it's more personal, right?
and then can call me later because they have my number which they're going to need at somepoint.
Yeah, then they've got two aspects to contact, I find, text messages don't go to spam.
(24:59):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And look, like...
Yeah, texts obviously work.
We implement texts as well.
That's a massive thing that we do.
Texting every, you should be texting every lead, calling every lead and sending the emailswith the same information.
It's just three points of different contact because people, you know, they get busy and ifthey, you know, if you send them that information, you know, maybe at nine o'clock at
(25:21):
night or they might not get to that for a few days.
So a simple follow-up call, just being like, have you got some time?
You know, with it.
saying this, it does come with nuance as well.
You have to do it at the right time.
There's only like a kind of two hour window that we are able to do this unless a leadcomes directly into system.
(25:41):
So I call it as soon as they come in within like an hour time span, or I just call peoplein the afternoon.
Outside of that, I don't really bother people cause you know, it's, it's tricky planningweddings, people are at work and then they come home and they don't have much time.
But you know, also sending the texts as well is very powerful.
One of the things I've found too as
creative we can use that excuse of like I'm so creative I just can't focus on business.
(26:07):
But you know, I've found like some of the best photographers are maybe not the bestphotographers, but they're amazing at business and working on their business and
communicating.
think the biggest thing is knowing having a system in place.
So I'm like, you're like, it's real clear for me too.
So I'm clear with them.
It cuts out all that confusion, like call client now.
It's done.
(26:27):
What's the next thing?
So I, I come across as clear rather than just this scattered creative.
Exactly.
And we need to be clear with those.
our business systems.
And like it's good that you bring that up because with Wedding Marketing Co, we've hadsome of the top people in Australia come to us struggling with bookings.
don't, because they're so creative and we don't understand these systems.
(26:47):
We don't understand how to actually run a business.
They're two entirely different ends of the spectrum.
So it's hard to be able to implement this and get out of our own way to have theconversations with people.
I guess even setting up that Calendly link.
The other day we were like, what are you doing today, Steve?
I'm doing the Calendly.
I'm like, I'm going to do it too.
Yes, we did it.
But it works, right?
(27:08):
Like it really worked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
But I guess if you're to take anything out of today and these conversations, it's justplease contact people, have those conversations with people because it's so important just
to treat our leads like normal hearings because they are expecting that.
Like we need to take ourselves out of the equation, take ourselves and ego out of this,out of the way and just, you know, put our best foot forward and talk to people.
(27:33):
Yeah.
But look, if, people haven't responded and like that's fine, right?
know, following up with them via text and email should also is also very crucial thing.
That's something that's huge with our follow up system that you would have implemented aswell.
But there's a few ways to do this.
We follow up with people like every three, seven, 10 and
(27:55):
like two weeks, every three, seven, 10 and 14 days.
But each part of that process, we just bring up a different piece of information.
So like you said before, you don't want to be annoying.
You don't want to be salesy.
So just provide people with that next set of information or that next thing they shouldconsider.
Like for one of those pieces, I just send all our couples through my own wedding photovideo business, just like a guide for how to plan their wedding.
(28:21):
So I'm sending them information with a...
actual call links so can book it in on their own time as well.
But each part of the journey, we're just checking back in with people, setting a newexpectation, setting some new information to them and just simply asking them for a time
for them to catch up.
Have you found that's been a pretty vital part of you?
(28:45):
Yeah.
then like the next one might be testimonials with like three or four testimonials withsome pictures and then like, and also like I always booking with a zoom call with my
clients.
And then, that was the one that on Monday I booked where they hit the second email andlike books from the second email.
Whereas like if I didn't send that, would they have emailed back?
Probably not.
Yeah.
Because they people get busy, they forget.
(29:05):
Yeah.
And I think we just put ourselves to this head of store where people are to come back tous.
And we think they haven't inquired with anyone else.
But the truth is like planning a wedding is
tough and if your work obviously speaks for itself but it's likely that we'll get lost inthe mix of everyone else.
the language important in these emails?
(29:26):
For sure, yeah.
So you want it to just be relaxed, you want it be easy going and you want it to be guidingpeople through.
So you don't want to just be super forceful but just, well guess it does depend on yourbrand as well.
you have to, everything that you do should be how you actually are as a person.
So for me, my whole company, the way that we shoot our weddings, it's just super relaxed.
(29:46):
So that's an important thing as well to get that exact avatar for the ads as well.
You don't want to paint yourself in the wrong picture.
Because if you're just kind of just trying to do a shotgun approach and you get the wrongweddings, then that's when you get bad experiences and bad reviews.
So for my whole experience, I just want people who want to enjoy their wedding day, have agood time.
They're not looking for super like forced like fashion editorial vibes.
(30:08):
We're just there to capture them having a good time.
and aid them through the process, guide them throughout the whole experience.
So that is documented throughout my whole email journey as well and all my textconversations and everything.
It's just relaxed, easygoing.
But it does come down to what type of person you are and how you want to present yourselffor sure.
But at the end of the day, if you're just providing people with information, giving themthe next step, they can just take it on their own terms as well.
(30:34):
You're not going to be seen as pushy or, you know, it's not going to be gross in anyoneelse's eyes.
Yeah, for sure.
So I guess I've talked a bit about how important it is to actually call people, but whatdo you actually do on a call?
So that's a whole nother thing.
And it's very in depth conversation, but the first we do two calls here and are you stillrunning this process or do you just go straight to a zoom?
(30:58):
Pretty much straight to a zoom actually.
So what we recommend with wedding marketing is two calls.
So a quick phone call just to suss out the vibe of the wedding.
Right.
You want five minutes just to make sure that that is the right client avatar.
Because if it's not, then you can just recommend them to someone else, someone else in theindustry.
You can send them over and then you build up a better relationship with people surroundingyou.
(31:18):
But you to suss out that person before you kind of just set the wrong vibe for them.
So a quick phone call just to say, okay, your wedding fits our vibe in this way.
Ask them heaps of questions, get them talking, get them to kind of talk about their day,how they want to actually live that day.
And that's just a five minute phone call.
Super easy.
But then on that phone call, it's super important to lock in.
(31:39):
the next appointment.
So locking in a zoom, which is super vital, which you would have found for booking, havingthat zoom is the most important point of the sales process, but you want to lock that in
on that actual phone call.
say next Wednesday, we'll catch up with both you and your partner.
We'll walk through everything together.
So is this like, this is just like an introduction.
(32:00):
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's like, how do you want to actually live your day?
Here's what we do and here's how we can help.
and you give them space to think about it.
So you're not trying to close them then.
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
I don't even talk about price.
Like they already have my pricing.
I don't talk about what package works or anything like that.
It's literally just this is the vibe you want.
This is what we do and here's how we can help.
And here's maybe what you should consider in between now and the next call, which I alwaysask them to think about from both their perspective and their partner's perspective, how
(32:28):
they actually want to experience the wedding day, how they actually want to remember itwith our services photo video.
I've never done this.
you feel, are they ever going like, so how do we book you?
Like on that call?
Not really.
Cause I set that expectation.
like, okay, at the start of the call, I just say, so what we're doing now is just having aquick five minute chat to see if we fit the vibe.
(32:50):
If we do, we'll catch up for that next Zoom and we'll talk with both you and your partnerto walk through the whole process.
And then they already know what to expect, right?
It's almost like you're qualifying them a little bit as well.
Exactly.
Cause it's like, yeah, they have to feel like they have to work a little bit hard to bookwith you, which I think that's a big thing is like, everyone's like, feels like all the
power is in the couple's corner.
Whereas like, if you're kind of qualifying them a little bit, they, yeah, you're almostchasing you.
(33:12):
Which is good.
And look, we should have the power of the conversation because we do this every day.
We know what to do.
We know what to do.
We know how weddings work.
So we should be guiding our couples through these parts of the journey.
The person who is asking all the questions has the power of the conversation and it'simportant that we hold that because we know what to do and we know if If they are wrong
(33:33):
for us, we will know that by the questions that we ask them So it's super important thatwe are guiding the conversation that we are, know saying the right things and giving them
the right information about us because That gives us a vibe if they're wrong.
Yeah, so I always lock in that next call that next zoom call
on that phone call, because it's just easy.
don't want to go back and forth, look at calendars.
(33:54):
Yeah, it's just a pain in the ass.
It's simply like, if they don't want to go ahead, they can just cancel that meeting.
It's no issue at all.
But that's quite rare.
People always show up to that call just to get that more in-depth information from us.
But that Zoom call, which you would know, is the most important part of the journey.
Having that in-depth conversation with both partners, walking them through all theexperiences of how you
(34:18):
you service them or getting them to talk about their actual day.
I always like to get the couple to talk first for about 15 minutes.
I ask them questions about their wedding, about their plans, about how they actually wantto experience the day and remember it with my service.
Walking them through what that might look like in 10 years time.
And then that gives me good idea of what's important to them for my service, right?
(34:42):
So how I need to capture it, what inclusions are actually super important because...
Without that, they might have an album that's super important.
They might forget on that call and then they send the quote.
So I ask them all those questions to build what's important so then I can sell what Ithink works for them.
And we were speaking before this and you had a call similar, was it a couple of days ago?
(35:04):
Yeah.
Where you were talking, you asked them those questions and they thought they wanted thetop package, right?
Yeah.
It's like most people they most people like because they can kind of click what collectionthey think would be best for them before like when they do the lead form Yes, so they
click like a top collection which pretty much everyone does And then I was chatting tothem and they're like look, you know, we're have one bridesmaid wonder groomer men We we
(35:26):
just want the portraits of ourselves We don't want to take them away or anything and itwas good like I can talk to them and be like look If you had like five or six groomsmen
and that and like this is gonna be a party and you want to people back at you know Someonedocumenting canapes and also here I'm like you want to go to the top package because
you've got another like a third person there
And then just telling them like look I think the middle collection would kind of suit youbetter and as soon as I told them that they were like they were on board because I was
(35:48):
like I was taking you know like two and a half grand off the table by that stage and theywere like he's not just trying to sell to us exactly like they loved it yeah works yeah
and all you were doing there is just treating them like people yeah you asked them thosequestions so you knew what works for them so you guided them in the right direction of
what they actually should book for their wedding day
So without that prior information, you do come across as salesy because you just try toforce something that doesn't fit.
(36:14):
So you need the context to actually sell the right thing to the right person.
It's also practice.
Like I said before, I've never had enough leads to have enough practice.
to be able to talk through these points.
And now like I'm recording all my Zoom chats and watching them back and being like, whatcould I have done different?
But like when you actually have enough Zoom calls coming through, like even if it's fouror five a week, you're like, cool, I didn't do this last time, this time I can do this and
(36:35):
see if it makes a difference.
And like I said, at end of that call, like it was the first time ever that I've actuallybeen like, this sounds awesome to me, does it sound good to you?
And they're like, yes.
And I was like, so you want a book?
And they're like, yes.
And I was like.
I've never had that.
Like usually it's like, cool, see ya and let me know.
And then I'm just kind of waiting and like hoping someone books at some point.
Yeah, awesome.
Absolutely.
Recording your Zooms is really vital as well.
(36:58):
It's really good to just be able to see yourself back.
It's a bit cringy at the start.
You're like, I can't believe I said that.
How many people do Zooms?
Yeah, cool.
But what you can actually do is just if you record it with loom or something similar.
No, it's through zoom.
Yeah, cool.
You can use an application called zoom, loom, sorry, and just get the transcript, throw itinto chat.
(37:21):
GPD and just ask it what you can do better.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then it just says this, this, this, Yeah.
So that's really cool.
But as you said, like you need to, like you don't want to throw things at the person.
Yeah.
And since you
ask them all those questions, you had the right package for them, then you ask them thesimple question if they're interested.
(37:41):
And you set that expectation of asking them whether they actually want your service.
And they booked with you right there.
So you'd already gone through everything else, you've already worn them out, you've builtthat trust, and then you told them exactly what they needed.
And then you just simply ask them on that call, are you guys interested?
Now, that's great.
I always like to do that.
It's quite powerful to get an idea of where that leads sitting on that call.
(38:05):
But some people aren't ready to book as well.
But it is nice, if they are keen, they're ready, but they might just need finances to getsorted.
So Steve, what, so when they said yes, like, you like, you're going to click now?
What did you do?
I'll send you through the formal quote after this.
and just like, kind of told me exactly like, cool.
It's just like this tiny little questionnaire, a contract and the deposit info.
(38:28):
and that was like, literally it was half an hour later, they'd signed the contract andpaid the deposit and everything.
just waiting there.
I was waiting, just like looking at my phone waiting for you to say yes.
but then like the other, like another day it didn't work where I said like, Hey, cool.
I'll reach back out you on Wednesday and we'll chat about this.
And they're like, cool.
Sounds good.
And then.
on Tuesday they came back and they're like, look, you we've decided to go elsewhere.
But still that like, usually those people wouldn't come back to me.
(38:50):
I'd just be like, just waiting and just like, I guess they went somewhere else.
Yeah.
And exactly.
That's because you set that expectation of you going to check in with them on Wednesday.
That's so crucial.
Every part of the journey needs to, they need to know exactly what you're to do next.
that.
is one of the most important things about that Zoom call as well.
Obviously, you've given them the right package, either you get an answer or you don't, butyou get kind of get an idea of where they're sitting.
(39:15):
But you need to set an expectation of when you are actually going to follow up.
say it's Monday.
I would say, know, yep, I'll give you kind of till Friday.
Is that enough time to check over the quote?
I'll check in with you on Friday.
Normally they're like, yep, that sounds perfect.
Otherwise they'll just say, no, we need another week.
We have some other calls or.
We just need to get our finances in check.
(39:35):
It doesn't ever feel like sticky or gross.
just giving them that guide that we're going to reach back out on that Friday.
And if they found someone else, fine, that's great.
They come to you at that point anyway without you even having to reach back out becausethey know that you're going to check back in with them.
Exactly.
saves the guesswork that we have to go through in so nice not to get ghosted.
(39:58):
Like someone's actually saying like, we don't want you.
I'm like, thank you.
Like, thanks for just letting me know.
Now you're not going to get seven emails.
Exactly.
And look, that is why the follow-up system is so important.
Yeah.
With both normal emails and your quote follow-ups, which I'll get into in a second.
It just allows people to either, you know, it'll keep you top of mind.
So they're constantly looking at your work, but also if they've gone elsewhere, youactually know.
(40:22):
Yeah.
And you get a solid
answer with otherwise you kind of will just have that lead sitting in your mind.
You might get a few thousand extra dollars but in that like they've completely discountedyou.
So without following up with people and you know getting that answer you just don't knowwhat's going on.
So it's super so so important to just follow up with people and keep the conversationsflowing and a really good way to do this is obviously you've sent the quote you should be
(40:48):
quoting every single person that you have a conversation with on a zoom you build thatpackage send them
sent everyone a quote.
So you don't want someone to come back to you and say that we're ready to book in becausethey need the information in front of them to just go through and talk with their
customer, with their partner.
provide them with everything that so they can just say, yep, we're ready to go ahead.
And you send that quote after the zoom so that so then they can just look at it in theirown time.
(41:14):
So it's obviously already packaged.
It looks the same that they've seen on the pricing guide.
So every single zoom people should get a quote.
And then you've set that expectation of when to follow up.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, but following up a few times with a quote is super important as well because peopleget busy, they forget and just guiding them through with different points of follow up by
asking them different questions.
(41:34):
And it's quite nice to follow up with them and just simply say, do you guys have anydifferent questions about the quote?
Have you looked at anyone else or is there something that's stopping you from going ahead?
People come back when you ask that and they have something else that they might want toadd in.
or they might ask or do you offer raw footage or something like that and that could be thething that gets them over the line.
(41:54):
Without following up and asking them that question, they're going to book with someoneelse that provides that information in front of them.
just following up with them is just so vital and again it doesn't have to be gross, itjust can be asking them that next point of question to give them that next expectation of
what to actually do.
(42:16):
Communication is the most important thing in business because we're in the serviceindustry.
We have to communicate with clients.
We have to communicate what we do best and why we want to actually rock up.
that is literally my whole sales funnel.
That's how I've booked all the weddings I have and that's what we employ with WeddingMarketing Co.
Yeah.
So it's so, so powerful if you're just building these communication barriers with peopleand just giving them the information about you and about what you offer.
(42:43):
So do you you set up all these systems before you even go to the marketing side, right?
Like before you go into with the client?
yeah, I would.
Yeah.
So everybody here likely has leads sitting in their account that just haven't beenproperly attended to.
You know, if people haven't either sent the right follow ups or just given the rightcommunication, but like, I guess formats by calling or texting, there'd be leads already
(43:10):
sitting there, money sitting on the table, ready to go.
So I would, that's what I did.
I implemented all my follow-up procedures first.
What I had to do, had, did the homework and figured out how to actually put these thingsinto practice because all this is, is just marketing knowledge, but you niche it down into
your specific area and change it a little bit for weddings.
(43:32):
So it takes a little bit to kind of figure these things out, but luckily like there areinfo packets out there.
We offer, like we have a podcast as do you, but really dives into these systems inbusiness and things like that.
So I highly recommend to reshift the whole system side of things first and then go fullsteam ahead with ads.
Because without that you haven't built up the experience of knowing how to kind of use theinflux of leads.
(43:56):
Do you mind if I ask like the crowd a few questions?
Yeah, go for Like even, who's still getting organic leads?
Like as many as they used to.
Like I'm, yeah, that's good to know.
Like about half-ish.
like ever like people are very that I speak to a very similar to me I'm not good atbranding I'm not good at social media so I'm not getting any organic whatsoever and I'm in
(44:19):
the point where it's like six months ago whatever I was saying I was like I'm doing allthe collectives I'm doing like every single thing I could do to kind of build my business
and nothing helped whatsoever
And for like, this is just for my business.
Like for me, it's all pay to play.
Like I can, I can plan the most, you know, beautiful month of planning on Instagram andthen still like no one sees it and I get no bookings.
(44:42):
So does anyone have any more like more pointed questions for ads?
Like it's pretty hard to go, I guess, really deep dive into ads, but like, what do peoplewant to know about like meta ads that are here?
(45:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
what I would do, what type of service would you actually be talking about?
(46:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, what I would do for that instance, a lot of people do look for celebrancy and MC.
It's not often that they would look for the whole trio.
So I would probably do celebrant, MC and then make it very clear, I guess, that you dooffer the three.
But then with the money that you make from that, you just have another separate landingpage and you'd have another separate ad that has either all three or focuses on the DJ
(46:53):
side of things.
But it just comes down to what people are actually interested in.
That's not, I guess, my direction of field.
So don't know how many people want to go all three.
But for instance like we like we always if you're doing photo and video we always go photoand video in one and we get so many leads that just photo and just video so people do get
the Do you find that most people are?
(47:13):
Looking like is that an upsell having like being the celebrant and also MC Is that like isit the same way photo video where people like they're book you more often because you do
both?
(49:26):
Would it be worth, like for you, if you didn't get both the celebrant and the emcee role,would that be worth you not taking the job because you didn't get both?
Only because like most couples I'm talking to now I'm like look I'm only doing photo videofor the rest of the weddings for 2025 and I know that I'm going to be throwing away some
(49:50):
weddings for photo but for me it's worth throwing that away so that's I was kind ofasking.
(50:30):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, what I would do is I would include everything just on one landing page.
So all of the information for three different services, just clearly lay that out.
I'd probably put like a celebrant MC kind of linked and then also make it very clear thatyou do offer DJ as well.
But with that, I just test all three different variations of like celebrant MC, celebrantMC, and then all the trio.
(50:55):
Cause people might be, then you get that data to see where they kind of gravitatedtowards.
But make it very clear on that learning page that you do service everything becausepeople, they don't have to be gravitated.
Like they might just come because you're celebrant and MC and you know that ad performancebetter, but they're really interested in that DJ once they've seen a bit more information
on that actual page.
So it's just about seeing what people actually bite with ads.
(51:17):
It's different to like organic socials, but I would test like celebrant and MC and thenthe trio, but have all the information easily, easily available.
Say by the time someone's looking for a DJ, you've already lost the job.
Like realistically, like if someone's just looking for a DJ, the celebrant job's gone.
(52:01):
Any other questions?
(53:40):
Yeah, cool.
What I would do, so in between both appointments you would say it's about three to sixmonths.
Well, you know, that might, that would just be some more admin work on the backend.
So what you could do is, you know, put together some photos or some videos of a reallyrecent, you know, like a really good wedding that you guys just had at the venue and just
(54:05):
simply say, look, this is a couple.
has to be kind of in the same frame as well.
Someone in the same vibe of that day, just like, look, this is someone who justexperienced what you could experience through our venue.
When you came and had our first appointment, you asked all of these questions.
This is what you're interested in.
and this fits the exact vibe and they kind of lived exactly how you want it to live.
(54:26):
The photos are obviously super important, so you'd have to reach out to the photographersand stuff, but just checking in with them and you don't need to be as forceful or as
frequent with that because it is a big process and it is over a longer time span.
Like we only really have two weeks to kind of lock someone in before they start findingsomeone else.
A venue, takes a little bit longer.
They have to visit multiple places.
(54:47):
They might have to travel.
So you could just do like a...
every three, four weeks, just a simple check in, providing that new piece of informationor maybe what else they should consider when they're looking at different venues.
Just asking them or just guiding them in that direction of here's what you should ask thenext venue people, here's what to consider when you plan a venue.
(55:07):
Look for the light, look for the place for wet weather option, look for the locations forphotos, give them all that information so they can, you know, even if they don't have that
decision with you, they might go to someone else.
and they have a better informed decision, so you're helping them anyway.
And then if they had a bad experience at that other venue, they might recommend you guysfrom that point forward.
(55:28):
So all you want to do, every time that we check in with people, we just want to guide themand ask them questions as well, but also tell them what they should expect when they're
going through that journey.
And if they have that information, when they're ready, they would have seen that andthey'll just come back, just like, we're ready and thanks so much for helping me.
(55:49):
Yeah.
We better wrap this up.
Yeah.
Just for the time wise, but if you guys have more like more pointed questions, you cancome up to you and ask you questions.
for sure.
I guess, look today we kind of breezed over a lot of things.
Like this is a very in-depth conversation about actual strategies of how to, you know,like what to say in these instances, what to say in your emails and things like that.
(56:11):
It's a very in-depth conversation because there's a lot of points and there's a lot ofpoints in how to actually advertise as well.
So what we're doing with Wedding Marketing Co is we're actually, we've built up a courseand we're building up a community and we're giving everybody here free access to that as
well.
Cause we're going to launch that just to build up the information in the industry.
there isn't, when I was trying to build up my business, had, there was none of this.
(56:33):
There's no business side variations for specific to wedding industry.
So we're trying to increase that in the whole wedding market.
So we're going to give everybody just a free input.
Cause what we want to do is we want everyone to repack horse to shreds.
RooPower, we're doing a cohort.
So a three month stint where we guide people through what to change in their business.
(56:54):
But we haven't done this before.
We've built it and we know what we're doing, but we need people to come in, it to shreds,tell us what to do, tell us what to change.
Because getting feedback is obviously the best way to do things.
So if anyone's interested or if anyone has questions, just come up and we can chat, havesome conversations and then I'll get you guys to sign up.
(57:15):
There's no like catch, I'm not going to sell you on anything.
It's just going to be free so we can kind of build up the rapport of what to actually doand how to actually give this information out.
Awesome.
Thanks so much mate.
Cool guys.
Thanks mate.
Appreciate it.
Thank you
(57:36):
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Alright, thanks so much for everyone coming down.
(00:23):
Really appreciate it.
This is cool to be able to see some beautiful faces here again and some new faces too.
I just wanted to bring Stephen down to kind of hang out with us today.
My story is that pretty much in June this year, I had one wedding booked for 2025 and Iwas like stressing my head off.
I definitely have enough work outside of weddings to kind of keep going, but I wasdefinitely freaking out big time.
(00:48):
And so everything I had kind of done for the last 10 years was definitely not workinganymore.
And a lot of people I was speaking to in the industry, when I could actually speak to themand we weren't at a social event and everyone's like, yeah, everything's amazing.
You know, they kind of said like a lot of people were feeling pretty similar to the waythat I was feeling.
so I got an Instagram ad come across my feed.
(01:08):
You did really well there.
Thank you.
Thank you.
yeah, so see you from the, yeah, the wedding marketing co.
and honestly, I was at the point where I was like, I need to throw money at this and Ineed to book two weddings to pay for it unless I'm screwed.
And like, that's kind of where I was at.
and yeah, I was just like, it's coming from like this.
(01:31):
fear mentality, but I was just like, well, I need to do something or us.
What do I do from here?
And then, yes, I contacted these guys.
This is kind of why I wanted to have them up as well.
Cause obviously there's a million different marketing and advertising agencies everywhere.
I just had to take the leap and you guys are honestly the ad that came across when I wasready to take the leap.
And then I saw you guys, I was like, cool, let's just go.
(01:53):
So yeah, I just kind of wanted to bring you down here and well, obviously I don't know ifyou know, like things have changed a lot for me.
And I don't know, like it's hard for me to justify, like, is it, I don't think my work'soverly, you know, exceptional above any other photographer whatsoever.
There's a lot better photographers out there.
Is it the podcast is helping out a lot?
But the difference is, is like I've had now 24 weddings in the last four months, it's like140 grams worth of work.
(02:19):
I've had to pay money for that, which in the past I haven't.
So it kind of felt bittersweet at the start where you're like, cool, you know, I'm goingto spend 1500 bucks every single month.
to get this work and in the past you kind of didn't have to you just kind of did whateveryou did like share on Facebook or boost a post for 50 bucks here and then you kind of get
bookings.
But it's kind of been a big shift for me I guess I've got to run this like a business inthis day and age or else I'm going to be left behind.
(02:43):
So I just wanted to bring Stephen to have a little bit chat about MetaAds and what theyspecialise in.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thanks everyone for coming and that's a really powerful story.
So I really do appreciate you sharing that as well.
I'm glad we could help.
Everyone has pretty much experienced that same thing as well as have I.
If you guys don't know, I run my own wedding photo video business as well and I had thesame struggles, not getting consistent leads and things like that.
(03:08):
But I started my business in 2018 doing photo.
the odd photo video job, picking out marketing jobs, businesses, cafes and things likethat.
And where are you from?
Newcastle.
Yeah.
So I in, I grew up on the central coast and just service the Hunter Valley now for, forweddings.
But, know, I pretty quickly got into the field of weddings in 2019.
(03:31):
I realized it was, it was fun.
It was profitable and you can make a fair bit of money doing that while having a goodtime.
So.
I started to pick that up.
I really shifted my whole business to just do weddings in 2019, but then COVID hit.
I kind of shut everything off and made it a little bit of an issue with getting no work.
(03:53):
So I come out of COVID and I'm sure you would have experienced this.
You've got a massive slump of work.
Everyone came through and made it really easy.
You didn't have to do any work to get the weddings.
So I had that same experience.
I booked 65 weddings for 2022.
I do photo and video.
I was getting team members to shoot the other position.
(04:13):
Now I was editing everything myself.
So I edited 65 photo video weddings in 2022.
And by the end of that, I was like, fuck this.
I'm not doing this again.
It was just way too much.
It was so much stress.
And at the peak of my backlog, it was like, I had 25 video edits to do and it was sixmonths turnaround.
So this is not feasible.
(04:34):
Right.
So at that point I was like, I'm either going to reshift my whole business.
or I'm just going to leave.
I'm going to leave the wedding industry.
So I started to think a bit more about business, a bit more about my systems and figureout how I can actually think about this as an actual business.
Think about the systems I can implement to scale this a little bit smarter.
(04:54):
So shortly after doing that, I hired my first editor who's still a part of my team.
He's been on my team for 18 months now.
And that gave me the time to focus on the systems that I needed to actually implement.
Like in-house in Australia or do you have you got He's overseas.
Yeah, but he's full-time.
Well, he was overseas now he's in Sydney actually So he moved over but yeah, like I justpay him a full-time wage and he works for me and I did you know a six month training
(05:23):
period to get him up to scratch and I haven't edited a wedding film since that point Soit's was allowed me to you know, take my hands off and realize okay He's editing just as
good as I was I trained him up in the exact way that I was able
to learn the ropes myself and he's doing the same work.
So now I have time to think about systems, I have time to think about how I can scale mybusiness.
(05:45):
So that was about October last year.
And since that point, I focused on getting more bookings, a little bit of ads, and then Icame to Nithu, who is my business partner, and we worked on this system for Wedding
Marketing Co.
for my other business.
And since that point, I booked 500K worth of weddings in that 13th month period.
(06:07):
All we did was figure out a system that worked, implement that, and that's just the exactsame system that you use as well for obviously ads coming through.
And that's what I'm going to kind of get into today.
So yeah, it's all you need to do in business is find what works, you know, use theinformation that you get like you would have.
You would have seen the ads come through, leads come through.
(06:28):
Now you're figuring out what works with communicating with leads and things like that.
I've never had that problem where I've never had enough leads and I could actually learnhow to sell.
like, it just gets so hard.
I'm like, shit, a lead.
And now it's like actually getting, you know, enough leads.
can like actually start to see what works and what doesn't work.
Which that's a whole new thing for me.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like Steve calls me and then we go, I got 10 leads.
(06:50):
Where did that come from?
But yeah, look, all ads are is just getting eyeballs to your business.
It doesn't really change like leads.
You're like, it's just more eyeballs.
So.
Without the rest of the systems that you actually have to build, like exactly what I'llget into today by giving value, giving people information.
You're not going to book things if you don't have all the other groundwork done.
(07:11):
If you get more eyeballs to it, like an underperforming business that doesn't give peoplevalue or doesn't allow people to understand what you do quickly, you're just kind of
spending money for nothing.
So you need to make sure that you first, if you're going to advertise, you need to makesure that you communicate what you do effectively to people for sure.
Yeah, there's those emails I get from you through like hey, can you do this for me and Irecord this in front of here?
(07:32):
like, yeah Yeah, exactly.
I like putting your face in front of a camera like is just a very good way to build trust,right?
So that's a piece of I guess one of our systems, you know getting in front of camera likeAlina did as well You know get in front of the camera build the trust for your for your
customers They get a bit of an understanding of what you're like immediately.
(07:54):
and that kind of just builds that
rapport so people can understand a bit more about you.
But before I kind of get too far into the systems, that is a very vital part that everyoneshould understand as well.
We have to build trust with people because they're planning their wedding with us.
It's a huge thing.
They're spending a lot of money.
That's a big responsibility.
(08:15):
So we need to build that trust immediately when someone looks at our website, looks at ourlanding page, or looks at our ad.
Because otherwise, they're just going to look for someone else who has that trust.
And if you are going to go down the route of ads, and a really easy way to do that is geton camera or, you know, actually be in the flesh at a wedding with a bride and groom next
to you, showing that you are doing exactly what you say you are.
(08:38):
And we really need to lean heavily into social proof.
I like the reviews and things, is having to scrape back all the weddings you've done andget those reviews so you actually can show up and.
Tell people who are going through your systems, going through your business, looking atyour business, what the past couples have actually looked at and what they've done, how
(09:00):
they've experienced the day with you.
So all of that is so, so important before you even think about actually advertising.
We need to have.
Like, cause you didn't have any reviews before you came to us and you had to go throughit.
great homework for me to do to like do this, this, this, this, was like, okay, cool.
Cause like, otherwise you are, I feel like even if you have ads turned on, but you don'thave all that other stuff, you're just going to be kind of wasting money.
(09:21):
Yeah.
Cause like people can see the ads, then they're probably not going to click or anythinglike that.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, if without giving a clear expectation for someone to know where to go next onthat ad as well, if you're just throwing someone to your homepage, for instance, they're
not going to know what to do next.
Or if you're just going to Instagram, if you're boosting a post, you know, I always getjust lost in reels.
(09:42):
I would not look like click on an ad and then go through the finals, trying to figure outwhat to do next.
If I was on someone's Instagram.
So every part of the journey, if you're doing ads or if you're even on Instagram, you wantto lead someone to that next point, tell them what to do.
So when someone looks at your business, they shouldn't have to think, okay, what, what amI trying to do in this next point?
(10:02):
Should be coming to them by saying, this is what you need to do next.
in our journey or this is the next piece of information, you should understand about ourbusiness, this is how we show up to these weddings and things like that.
It's so important to take the guesswork out of people's journey through you.
It's so transparent for us.
Like when I see, when I like sign up for a course and they're kind of running you throughthat whole landing page, you're like, I know exactly what you're doing.
(10:27):
You you're telling me all about like how good this course will be and this is how goodthey did with the course and this is how much money you'll make.
And you know exactly what they're doing.
But also like your clients probably aren't seeing stuff like that every single day.
So they're just seeing they're like, this is awesome.
And like kind of working through the funnel.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I hope they're not planning a wedding every single day.
I hope they haven't been to as many weddings as we have.
So they shouldn't have this experience with.
(10:49):
that we obviously do.
In the industry, we see all these images and we see other people's work and things likethat.
But it's just so important to set that next expectation in the journey.
I like to think of this whole experience as like a river, right?
So each part of the journey, so your ad is the start of the river.
Each part, your landing page is the next part.
You want to set that next expectation.
(11:10):
So if you don't, the river splits into like five different areas because people get lostin Instagram, they get lost on your service page, about page contact, like...
give them everything they need to make a very clear objective so you don't lose leads.
Because if you throw 10 different links at them, you're just going to lose people that getdistracted.
might have their kid come up and they're lost in their drain of thought, or someone mightcall them or something like that, and they don't know where they're actually up to.
(11:36):
So that's why a landing page is so important, and that's a vital part of Wedding MarketingCo.
So obviously, I run Wedding Marketing Co.
with my business partner, Nithu and Bryce.
Nithu runs a marketing agency as well.
Obviously you're one of our clients too.
So we've built this system off of my business, what has worked over last seven years andwhat we've kind of proved to actually work.
(11:57):
And one of that like very vital pieces is a landing page.
Do many people know about landing pages here?
Like is this fresh to some people?
Yeah, so a landing page essentially is your whole website coming from an ad just put onone page.
So you don't want things that are too distracting so people can...
(12:17):
go off, you don't want external links, you just want everyone to be on one page.
is that like a hidden page on your website?
Yeah, can be.
I just don't have to link it to anywhere else.
Just a hidden page is fine.
But you're linking that to the ad so that they have the expectation of clicking the ad.
Now they're on the landing page.
And on that landing page, you just want to fill someone in with the whole journey abouteither booking with you, what makes you different, you know, what they should expect with
(12:43):
actually going with you, how you actually show up to your weddings.
which is something that we built for you as well.
And have you found that that's been really helpful?
I think it has to, because even Al and I have kind of compared.
We run pretty similar ads, and then even Al will kind of have a click through, but thenactually people going and filling out the information and actually submitting the lead is
(13:03):
a lot, lot like...
really noticeably less.
And that's what I'm trying to figure out is I'm always trying to justify what's working.
And that's, think the landing page is the big one.
Because probably more people are clicking through with your ad, but then way more peopleare actually filling out the contact form and everything on the landing page.
Yeah, I might have like 30 to 40.
(13:25):
people click through, but then to actually fill it out.
And I think like what you said, if there's not a clear journey the whole way down, youlose them.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's been word of mouth for so many years.
And I would still say that's the majority of weddings that I book is word of mouth andfrom past clients and past couples.
(13:46):
But yeah, definitely like looking at Steve's going like, wow, he's never seen these peoplebefore.
They're all new eyes on the Yeah, so like cold leads coming through.
and they're actually inquiring, which is epic.
Because they would never come through.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, that could also maybe be an ad thing as well.
Because with an ad, I'm not sure how deep you've looked at the data.
(14:07):
Because obviously you have access to your ads manager.
But we don't need a bucket full of leads or a bucket full people coming through.
We just need highly qualified leads.
And with that, that comes down to the person you're actually speaking to in the actual ad.
So you want to be speaking to the right person.
So obviously we figured out your client avatar.
We're just speaking to that one person that you're trying to get that wedding for and youdon't need to talk to the masses and do like a shotgun approach because that's why a
(14:33):
landing page does work so well because they've already seen that previous expectation inthe ad and you're showing up in the exact same way on that landing page.
So the conversion rate doesn't change because they know exactly what to do next.
So the ad still feels like you, the landing page still feels like you.
It's just getting to highly qualified traffic is the main thing because speaking exactlyabout like what you do, how you show up in the ad really is beneficial to that.
(15:00):
Yeah.
So I guess there's a couple of things that you need to consider about ads.
It's about building that trust and like, I guess, urgency and making sure that you kind ofset the expectations of what you do and how you do it.
And also building a really good offer is important.
So like everybody here does something different in their business to each other.
Like we all do photo, we all do video, but to a client without extracting what you dodifferent, they kind of all look the same.
(15:28):
Except for the absolute top of the industry, it meshes into together pretty effectively.
Without someone who's really deep in the industry, we need to extract what makes usdifferent.
As I said, I have a team, so my difference is I can do everything within four weeks.
So I'm able to highly produce photos and videos and deliver that.
(15:48):
in four weeks.
So an offer just extracts what makes you different.
We figured out your offer.
What makes you different to everybody else that catches someone at its attention?
And then you can sell them on the experience once they come through to that landing page.
I think that's a hard part for everyone because everyone's like, I'm not special.
know, like everyone feels the same thing.
Like, yeah, I know I'm good at photo, I'm good at video, but then everyone's like, butlike, what's different?
(16:10):
Yeah, I can be bubbly and I can kind of run a day and everything, but it's really hard tokind of pinpoint what's.
your selling point is.
And that's why I always struggle with branding.
when you see, you know, like Josh Withers and like even Annie and stuff, like theirbranding is so strong.
I'm like, I'm not that unique, you know, so it's hard, but I feel like it's hard for a lotof people to kind of really pinpoint what that difference is.
Yeah.
And look, that is a really difficult thing to pinpoint if you haven't tried to, you know,go through the paces of figuring that out, but it could just be, you know, if you really
(16:39):
like to be in depth with someone's wedding, you could sell that you
help them plan and things.
So build those info packets, for instance, of timelines, examples and things, and they cancome to you almost like a wedding planner or something like that.
If you like to be really deep in the experience, what you do differently could just be youhelp them plan the whole process and have more conversations rather than just coming up to
(17:01):
the wedding day.
So that's something that could be different or it just could be something like if you dophoto and you wanted to do video, adding on it like a photo video team and having just two
people you work with or something like that.
It is a really difficult thing.
And I think it's interesting like talking, was talking to Sam the other day.
like, cause I reached out to Sam and I love Sam's approach.
(17:22):
He actually helps the couples like from the very start, like right up until the wedding,they know him already because of his marketing.
He's back in.
he's back in so good.
like, he's so like, I love like that we're doing this again, cause I actually met Ben at acoffee catch up like 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago and learning
(17:42):
from each other, hey, what do you do?
And Sam was just encouraging me like, hey, you I send out an email like along the journeyand like you said, it's such a journey into the couple knows what's gonna happen next.
They feel so much more confident in you.
So by the wedding day comes, they're just like, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
And look, that is a perfect example of what makes someone different.
(18:06):
That makes Sam different for instance.
But you know, figuring out.
Beautiful.
But no, like some of those things do take weeks or months to try to figure out but that'swhat, you know.
(18:29):
we kind of do like as well.
It's a difficult process to actually figure out, but everybody does have something thatmakes them different.
It's about how they show up on the day or what they actually do differently to each other.
But it is kind of difficult because of grand scheme of things like we are just kind oftaking photos or taking videos, but that everybody has something that they can lean on to
(18:51):
make themselves different.
So leaning on what makes you different and really expressing that through the wholesection of your business is super important.
allows you to stand out from everybody else.
I guess then people talk about that experience too with others.
Yeah, exactly.
And then word starts to spread and things.
So I guess before you start ads, you need to make sure that you obviously figure out thatdifference as well.
(19:14):
And then make sure that the rest of the funnel I'm going to run through today is kind ofdown pat.
Otherwise you'll just be speaking to no one essentially.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
One of the most important things, and you would know this because of the increase ofbookings, is actually communicating to our customers.
Like a lot of people, I don't know, I think it's a bit of like an ego thing, maybe wethink our photos and videos are too good, but people don't follow up in this industry, and
(19:38):
we know this because we've had people come to us and they say that they never follow upwith anyone.
They just send out the pricing guide and info packet and wait for people to come to them.
That's quite unfortunate because it's doing a really big disservice to the people thatactually come to you.
Cause they come to you cause they care about your work.
They care about your information.
They want to learn more.
And you kind of just throwing something at them and just be like, you're not, like you'renot worth my time.
(20:01):
So I had a zoom call with a couple of Monday night and like, still feel gross.
like, I'm trying to sell to them.
But then like halfway through the call, they're like, thank you so much for putting thison.
Yeah.
Like no one else.
Like it's maybe I got two phone calls, but like no one else would offer us a zoom call.
And I like super thankful for that.
Cool.
Yeah, and like it's it feels a bit maybe I guess gross at the start, but I think it's justthe way that you think about it.
(20:24):
Right.
If you shift the mindset to be like, okay, I'm going to talk to my leads.
So what I do is I call every single lead because I want to have that conversation withthem.
And one of two things will happen.
They'll pick up and they'll say that they're busy or they won't pick up.
And if they pick up and they say that they're busy, I'll organize another call or I canactually get them on the phone and actually have that conversation.
So a lot of people maybe feel a bit uncomfortable.
(20:46):
about making those calls and having those conversations.
But every single time that I've talked to someone in my whole seven years of business,I've never had someone blow up at me and get angry that I'm bothering them.
We're just trying to have normal conversations and treat people like humans becausethey're inquiring with you for a reason.
So why would you do them the disservice of not talking to them and communicating withthem?
(21:10):
All marketing is is communicating with people and letting them know what to do next.
That's like a massive flip for most people, myself included, is like, yeah, that you'renot hassling them.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's hard because I know as soon as you like apply for solar and then all of suddenyou get like five calls like that's the only kind of that's the only thing you have to
think of you like, dude, I didn't want any of you to call me.
(21:31):
I just wanted prices, you know, but but like people are inquiring for their wedding day.
So it's definitely a very different thing than getting solar.
And look, it does come down to how you actually do it as well.
Like that you can do it in a sleazy way.
Yeah.
But we've always found that if you're following up with people and say you follow up tothree.
four times, just follow up with a different way of communicating.
(21:54):
Just don't say the same freaking thing.
Four times.
were talking about follow up emails the other day and I realized.
like so many times it will go into junk mail.
So I do have like a, just checking back.
It might've landed in junk mail.
And they're like, my gosh, it's in junk mail.
And here I am just sitting there going, they hate me.
They think I suck.
They've picked Steve, not me.
(22:15):
And like, you know, like you can, you can be so worried about something that if you justfollow up and ask, exactly.
yeah.
Here it is, Al, here's the money.
like.
Yeah, the main thing is just asking like asking if people are busy just calling them likewhen they inquire and just say hey have you got some time to chat the worst that they're
going to do is just say no sorry I'm busy.
One of the biggest things that Steve and I actually put in our thing is like is it okayfor me to give you a call?
(22:42):
mark.
Yeah most of them say yes.
And when they say yes then we don't feel as bad calling them because they've given uspermission and that's really helped me.
Because I FaceTime everyone so I'm like, you want to FaceTime or call?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And since you've started doing that for both of you, has that really picked up thecommunication with people?
I'm still not that good at calling.
Like there'll be days where I'm like...
(23:04):
Yeah, cool.
I'm to call these two or three people and I do, but then there'll be other days where I'mstill like, just, I don't feel like that.
It's just like these, the mood that you're in yourself.
And even though you like know this is the good thing to do, it still doesn't happen allthe time.
But getting better, like building up with that.
Yeah, for sure.
And look, it just comes with reps.
Like it comes with doing it over and over again.
But in your experience, have you had people come back to you in a bad way at all?
(23:27):
No, no, never.
Exactly.
Like it's just your own perception of dealing with some dickhead in the past.
That's all it is.
On the opposite end.
You don't feel like that you're bothering them.
But a simple way to do that is just treat people like humans.
know, like they're coming to you because they want to have those conversations.
They want more information.
So if we're just asking them simple questions about their wedding day and when we get themon the phone, asking them questions and getting them to talk, like you're not going to
(23:53):
come across as salesy.
I hate this at school, but do mind if we ask like who actually calls leads when they comein?
anyone?
Yep.
Text us.
you know, because they end up in spam.
And I can see in our system that we use if they've opened it.
(24:16):
But then I drew, I send that text message and the amount of conversations that has sparkedif, I've got, then I'll get it.
we've just got that proposal.
And then they'll have, I've got a few questions about this.
then it's, and it's, know, sometimes you're doing admin at nine o'clock at night,depending on whatever.
it's always like, the late time, but I've just let you know, I have gotten back to you.
(24:39):
it has been a day later because we've been at a wedding and the response I've gotten fromthe text message has been better.
I guess it's more personal, right?
and then can call me later because they have my number which they're going to need at somepoint.
Yeah, then they've got two aspects to contact, I find, text messages don't go to spam.
(24:59):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And look, like...
Yeah, texts obviously work.
We implement texts as well.
That's a massive thing that we do.
Texting every, you should be texting every lead, calling every lead and sending the emailswith the same information.
It's just three points of different contact because people, you know, they get busy and ifthey, you know, if you send them that information, you know, maybe at nine o'clock at
(25:21):
night or they might not get to that for a few days.
So a simple follow-up call, just being like, have you got some time?
You know, with it.
saying this, it does come with nuance as well.
You have to do it at the right time.
There's only like a kind of two hour window that we are able to do this unless a leadcomes directly into system.
(25:41):
So I call it as soon as they come in within like an hour time span, or I just call peoplein the afternoon.
Outside of that, I don't really bother people cause you know, it's, it's tricky planningweddings, people are at work and then they come home and they don't have much time.
But you know, also sending the texts as well is very powerful.
One of the things I've found too as
creative we can use that excuse of like I'm so creative I just can't focus on business.
(26:07):
But you know, I've found like some of the best photographers are maybe not the bestphotographers, but they're amazing at business and working on their business and
communicating.
think the biggest thing is knowing having a system in place.
So I'm like, you're like, it's real clear for me too.
So I'm clear with them.
It cuts out all that confusion, like call client now.
It's done.
(26:27):
What's the next thing?
So I, I come across as clear rather than just this scattered creative.
Exactly.
And we need to be clear with those.
our business systems.
And like it's good that you bring that up because with Wedding Marketing Co, we've hadsome of the top people in Australia come to us struggling with bookings.
don't, because they're so creative and we don't understand these systems.
(26:47):
We don't understand how to actually run a business.
They're two entirely different ends of the spectrum.
So it's hard to be able to implement this and get out of our own way to have theconversations with people.
I guess even setting up that Calendly link.
The other day we were like, what are you doing today, Steve?
I'm doing the Calendly.
I'm like, I'm going to do it too.
Yes, we did it.
But it works, right?
(27:08):
Like it really worked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
But I guess if you're to take anything out of today and these conversations, it's justplease contact people, have those conversations with people because it's so important just
to treat our leads like normal hearings because they are expecting that.
Like we need to take ourselves out of the equation, take ourselves and ego out of this,out of the way and just, you know, put our best foot forward and talk to people.
(27:33):
Yeah.
But look, if, people haven't responded and like that's fine, right?
know, following up with them via text and email should also is also very crucial thing.
That's something that's huge with our follow up system that you would have implemented aswell.
But there's a few ways to do this.
We follow up with people like every three, seven, 10 and
(27:55):
like two weeks, every three, seven, 10 and 14 days.
But each part of that process, we just bring up a different piece of information.
So like you said before, you don't want to be annoying.
You don't want to be salesy.
So just provide people with that next set of information or that next thing they shouldconsider.
Like for one of those pieces, I just send all our couples through my own wedding photovideo business, just like a guide for how to plan their wedding.
(28:21):
So I'm sending them information with a...
actual call links so can book it in on their own time as well.
But each part of the journey, we're just checking back in with people, setting a newexpectation, setting some new information to them and just simply asking them for a time
for them to catch up.
Have you found that's been a pretty vital part of you?
(28:45):
Yeah.
then like the next one might be testimonials with like three or four testimonials withsome pictures and then like, and also like I always booking with a zoom call with my
clients.
And then, that was the one that on Monday I booked where they hit the second email andlike books from the second email.
Whereas like if I didn't send that, would they have emailed back?
Probably not.
Yeah.
Because they people get busy, they forget.
(29:05):
Yeah.
And I think we just put ourselves to this head of store where people are to come back tous.
And we think they haven't inquired with anyone else.
But the truth is like planning a wedding is
tough and if your work obviously speaks for itself but it's likely that we'll get lost inthe mix of everyone else.
the language important in these emails?
(29:26):
For sure, yeah.
So you want it to just be relaxed, you want it be easy going and you want it to be guidingpeople through.
So you don't want to just be super forceful but just, well guess it does depend on yourbrand as well.
you have to, everything that you do should be how you actually are as a person.
So for me, my whole company, the way that we shoot our weddings, it's just super relaxed.
(29:46):
So that's an important thing as well to get that exact avatar for the ads as well.
You don't want to paint yourself in the wrong picture.
Because if you're just kind of just trying to do a shotgun approach and you get the wrongweddings, then that's when you get bad experiences and bad reviews.
So for my whole experience, I just want people who want to enjoy their wedding day, have agood time.
They're not looking for super like forced like fashion editorial vibes.
(30:08):
We're just there to capture them having a good time.
and aid them through the process, guide them throughout the whole experience.
So that is documented throughout my whole email journey as well and all my textconversations and everything.
It's just relaxed, easygoing.
But it does come down to what type of person you are and how you want to present yourselffor sure.
But at the end of the day, if you're just providing people with information, giving themthe next step, they can just take it on their own terms as well.
(30:34):
You're not going to be seen as pushy or, you know, it's not going to be gross in anyoneelse's eyes.
Yeah, for sure.
So I guess I've talked a bit about how important it is to actually call people, but whatdo you actually do on a call?
So that's a whole nother thing.
And it's very in depth conversation, but the first we do two calls here and are you stillrunning this process or do you just go straight to a zoom?
(30:58):
Pretty much straight to a zoom actually.
So what we recommend with wedding marketing is two calls.
So a quick phone call just to suss out the vibe of the wedding.
Right.
You want five minutes just to make sure that that is the right client avatar.
Because if it's not, then you can just recommend them to someone else, someone else in theindustry.
You can send them over and then you build up a better relationship with people surroundingyou.
(31:18):
But you to suss out that person before you kind of just set the wrong vibe for them.
So a quick phone call just to say, okay, your wedding fits our vibe in this way.
Ask them heaps of questions, get them talking, get them to kind of talk about their day,how they want to actually live that day.
And that's just a five minute phone call.
Super easy.
But then on that phone call, it's super important to lock in.
(31:39):
the next appointment.
So locking in a zoom, which is super vital, which you would have found for booking, havingthat zoom is the most important point of the sales process, but you want to lock that in
on that actual phone call.
say next Wednesday, we'll catch up with both you and your partner.
We'll walk through everything together.
So is this like, this is just like an introduction.
(32:00):
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's like, how do you want to actually live your day?
Here's what we do and here's how we can help.
and you give them space to think about it.
So you're not trying to close them then.
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
I don't even talk about price.
Like they already have my pricing.
I don't talk about what package works or anything like that.
It's literally just this is the vibe you want.
This is what we do and here's how we can help.
And here's maybe what you should consider in between now and the next call, which I alwaysask them to think about from both their perspective and their partner's perspective, how
(32:28):
they actually want to experience the wedding day, how they actually want to remember itwith our services photo video.
I've never done this.
you feel, are they ever going like, so how do we book you?
Like on that call?
Not really.
Cause I set that expectation.
like, okay, at the start of the call, I just say, so what we're doing now is just having aquick five minute chat to see if we fit the vibe.
(32:50):
If we do, we'll catch up for that next Zoom and we'll talk with both you and your partnerto walk through the whole process.
And then they already know what to expect, right?
It's almost like you're qualifying them a little bit as well.
Exactly.
Cause it's like, yeah, they have to feel like they have to work a little bit hard to bookwith you, which I think that's a big thing is like, everyone's like, feels like all the
power is in the couple's corner.
Whereas like, if you're kind of qualifying them a little bit, they, yeah, you're almostchasing you.
(33:12):
Which is good.
And look, we should have the power of the conversation because we do this every day.
We know what to do.
We know what to do.
We know how weddings work.
So we should be guiding our couples through these parts of the journey.
The person who is asking all the questions has the power of the conversation and it'simportant that we hold that because we know what to do and we know if If they are wrong
(33:33):
for us, we will know that by the questions that we ask them So it's super important thatwe are guiding the conversation that we are, know saying the right things and giving them
the right information about us because That gives us a vibe if they're wrong.
Yeah, so I always lock in that next call that next zoom call
on that phone call, because it's just easy.
don't want to go back and forth, look at calendars.
(33:54):
Yeah, it's just a pain in the ass.
It's simply like, if they don't want to go ahead, they can just cancel that meeting.
It's no issue at all.
But that's quite rare.
People always show up to that call just to get that more in-depth information from us.
But that Zoom call, which you would know, is the most important part of the journey.
Having that in-depth conversation with both partners, walking them through all theexperiences of how you
(34:18):
you service them or getting them to talk about their actual day.
I always like to get the couple to talk first for about 15 minutes.
I ask them questions about their wedding, about their plans, about how they actually wantto experience the day and remember it with my service.
Walking them through what that might look like in 10 years time.
And then that gives me good idea of what's important to them for my service, right?
(34:42):
So how I need to capture it, what inclusions are actually super important because...
Without that, they might have an album that's super important.
They might forget on that call and then they send the quote.
So I ask them all those questions to build what's important so then I can sell what Ithink works for them.
And we were speaking before this and you had a call similar, was it a couple of days ago?
(35:04):
Yeah.
Where you were talking, you asked them those questions and they thought they wanted thetop package, right?
Yeah.
It's like most people they most people like because they can kind of click what collectionthey think would be best for them before like when they do the lead form Yes, so they
click like a top collection which pretty much everyone does And then I was chatting tothem and they're like look, you know, we're have one bridesmaid wonder groomer men We we
(35:26):
just want the portraits of ourselves We don't want to take them away or anything and itwas good like I can talk to them and be like look If you had like five or six groomsmen
and that and like this is gonna be a party and you want to people back at you know Someonedocumenting canapes and also here I'm like you want to go to the top package because
you've got another like a third person there
And then just telling them like look I think the middle collection would kind of suit youbetter and as soon as I told them that they were like they were on board because I was
(35:48):
like I was taking you know like two and a half grand off the table by that stage and theywere like he's not just trying to sell to us exactly like they loved it yeah works yeah
and all you were doing there is just treating them like people yeah you asked them thosequestions so you knew what works for them so you guided them in the right direction of
what they actually should book for their wedding day
So without that prior information, you do come across as salesy because you just try toforce something that doesn't fit.
(36:14):
So you need the context to actually sell the right thing to the right person.
It's also practice.
Like I said before, I've never had enough leads to have enough practice.
to be able to talk through these points.
And now like I'm recording all my Zoom chats and watching them back and being like, whatcould I have done different?
But like when you actually have enough Zoom calls coming through, like even if it's fouror five a week, you're like, cool, I didn't do this last time, this time I can do this and
(36:35):
see if it makes a difference.
And like I said, at end of that call, like it was the first time ever that I've actuallybeen like, this sounds awesome to me, does it sound good to you?
And they're like, yes.
And I was like, so you want a book?
And they're like, yes.
And I was like.
I've never had that.
Like usually it's like, cool, see ya and let me know.
And then I'm just kind of waiting and like hoping someone books at some point.
Yeah, awesome.
Absolutely.
Recording your Zooms is really vital as well.
(36:58):
It's really good to just be able to see yourself back.
It's a bit cringy at the start.
You're like, I can't believe I said that.
How many people do Zooms?
Yeah, cool.
But what you can actually do is just if you record it with loom or something similar.
No, it's through zoom.
Yeah, cool.
You can use an application called zoom, loom, sorry, and just get the transcript, throw itinto chat.
(37:21):
GPD and just ask it what you can do better.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then it just says this, this, this, Yeah.
So that's really cool.
But as you said, like you need to, like you don't want to throw things at the person.
Yeah.
And since you
ask them all those questions, you had the right package for them, then you ask them thesimple question if they're interested.
(37:41):
And you set that expectation of asking them whether they actually want your service.
And they booked with you right there.
So you'd already gone through everything else, you've already worn them out, you've builtthat trust, and then you told them exactly what they needed.
And then you just simply ask them on that call, are you guys interested?
Now, that's great.
I always like to do that.
It's quite powerful to get an idea of where that leads sitting on that call.
(38:05):
But some people aren't ready to book as well.
But it is nice, if they are keen, they're ready, but they might just need finances to getsorted.
So Steve, what, so when they said yes, like, you like, you're going to click now?
What did you do?
I'll send you through the formal quote after this.
and just like, kind of told me exactly like, cool.
It's just like this tiny little questionnaire, a contract and the deposit info.
(38:28):
and that was like, literally it was half an hour later, they'd signed the contract andpaid the deposit and everything.
just waiting there.
I was waiting, just like looking at my phone waiting for you to say yes.
but then like the other, like another day it didn't work where I said like, Hey, cool.
I'll reach back out you on Wednesday and we'll chat about this.
And they're like, cool.
Sounds good.
And then.
on Tuesday they came back and they're like, look, you we've decided to go elsewhere.
But still that like, usually those people wouldn't come back to me.
(38:50):
I'd just be like, just waiting and just like, I guess they went somewhere else.
Yeah.
And exactly.
That's because you set that expectation of you going to check in with them on Wednesday.
That's so crucial.
Every part of the journey needs to, they need to know exactly what you're to do next.
that.
is one of the most important things about that Zoom call as well.
Obviously, you've given them the right package, either you get an answer or you don't, butyou get kind of get an idea of where they're sitting.
(39:15):
But you need to set an expectation of when you are actually going to follow up.
say it's Monday.
I would say, know, yep, I'll give you kind of till Friday.
Is that enough time to check over the quote?
I'll check in with you on Friday.
Normally they're like, yep, that sounds perfect.
Otherwise they'll just say, no, we need another week.
We have some other calls or.
We just need to get our finances in check.
(39:35):
It doesn't ever feel like sticky or gross.
just giving them that guide that we're going to reach back out on that Friday.
And if they found someone else, fine, that's great.
They come to you at that point anyway without you even having to reach back out becausethey know that you're going to check back in with them.
Exactly.
saves the guesswork that we have to go through in so nice not to get ghosted.
(39:58):
Like someone's actually saying like, we don't want you.
I'm like, thank you.
Like, thanks for just letting me know.
Now you're not going to get seven emails.
Exactly.
And look, that is why the follow-up system is so important.
Yeah.
With both normal emails and your quote follow-ups, which I'll get into in a second.
It just allows people to either, you know, it'll keep you top of mind.
So they're constantly looking at your work, but also if they've gone elsewhere, youactually know.
(40:22):
Yeah.
And you get a solid
answer with otherwise you kind of will just have that lead sitting in your mind.
You might get a few thousand extra dollars but in that like they've completely discountedyou.
So without following up with people and you know getting that answer you just don't knowwhat's going on.
So it's super so so important to just follow up with people and keep the conversationsflowing and a really good way to do this is obviously you've sent the quote you should be
(40:48):
quoting every single person that you have a conversation with on a zoom you build thatpackage send them
sent everyone a quote.
So you don't want someone to come back to you and say that we're ready to book in becausethey need the information in front of them to just go through and talk with their
customer, with their partner.
provide them with everything that so they can just say, yep, we're ready to go ahead.
And you send that quote after the zoom so that so then they can just look at it in theirown time.
(41:14):
So it's obviously already packaged.
It looks the same that they've seen on the pricing guide.
So every single zoom people should get a quote.
And then you've set that expectation of when to follow up.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, but following up a few times with a quote is super important as well because peopleget busy, they forget and just guiding them through with different points of follow up by
asking them different questions.
(41:34):
And it's quite nice to follow up with them and just simply say, do you guys have anydifferent questions about the quote?
Have you looked at anyone else or is there something that's stopping you from going ahead?
People come back when you ask that and they have something else that they might want toadd in.
or they might ask or do you offer raw footage or something like that and that could be thething that gets them over the line.
(41:54):
Without following up and asking them that question, they're going to book with someoneelse that provides that information in front of them.
just following up with them is just so vital and again it doesn't have to be gross, itjust can be asking them that next point of question to give them that next expectation of
what to actually do.
(42:16):
Communication is the most important thing in business because we're in the serviceindustry.
We have to communicate with clients.
We have to communicate what we do best and why we want to actually rock up.
that is literally my whole sales funnel.
That's how I've booked all the weddings I have and that's what we employ with WeddingMarketing Co.
Yeah.
So it's so, so powerful if you're just building these communication barriers with peopleand just giving them the information about you and about what you offer.
(42:43):
So do you you set up all these systems before you even go to the marketing side, right?
Like before you go into with the client?
yeah, I would.
Yeah.
So everybody here likely has leads sitting in their account that just haven't beenproperly attended to.
You know, if people haven't either sent the right follow ups or just given the rightcommunication, but like, I guess formats by calling or texting, there'd be leads already
(43:10):
sitting there, money sitting on the table, ready to go.
So I would, that's what I did.
I implemented all my follow-up procedures first.
What I had to do, had, did the homework and figured out how to actually put these thingsinto practice because all this is, is just marketing knowledge, but you niche it down into
your specific area and change it a little bit for weddings.
(43:32):
So it takes a little bit to kind of figure these things out, but luckily like there areinfo packets out there.
We offer, like we have a podcast as do you, but really dives into these systems inbusiness and things like that.
So I highly recommend to reshift the whole system side of things first and then go fullsteam ahead with ads.
Because without that you haven't built up the experience of knowing how to kind of use theinflux of leads.
(43:56):
Do you mind if I ask like the crowd a few questions?
Yeah, go for Like even, who's still getting organic leads?
Like as many as they used to.
Like I'm, yeah, that's good to know.
Like about half-ish.
like ever like people are very that I speak to a very similar to me I'm not good atbranding I'm not good at social media so I'm not getting any organic whatsoever and I'm in
(44:19):
the point where it's like six months ago whatever I was saying I was like I'm doing allthe collectives I'm doing like every single thing I could do to kind of build my business
and nothing helped whatsoever
And for like, this is just for my business.
Like for me, it's all pay to play.
Like I can, I can plan the most, you know, beautiful month of planning on Instagram andthen still like no one sees it and I get no bookings.
(44:42):
So does anyone have any more like more pointed questions for ads?
Like it's pretty hard to go, I guess, really deep dive into ads, but like, what do peoplewant to know about like meta ads that are here?
(45:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
what I would do, what type of service would you actually be talking about?
(46:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, what I would do for that instance, a lot of people do look for celebrancy and MC.
It's not often that they would look for the whole trio.
So I would probably do celebrant, MC and then make it very clear, I guess, that you dooffer the three.
But then with the money that you make from that, you just have another separate landingpage and you'd have another separate ad that has either all three or focuses on the DJ
(46:53):
side of things.
But it just comes down to what people are actually interested in.
That's not, I guess, my direction of field.
So don't know how many people want to go all three.
But for instance like we like we always if you're doing photo and video we always go photoand video in one and we get so many leads that just photo and just video so people do get
the Do you find that most people are?
(47:13):
Looking like is that an upsell having like being the celebrant and also MC Is that like isit the same way photo video where people like they're book you more often because you do
both?
(49:26):
Would it be worth, like for you, if you didn't get both the celebrant and the emcee role,would that be worth you not taking the job because you didn't get both?
Only because like most couples I'm talking to now I'm like look I'm only doing photo videofor the rest of the weddings for 2025 and I know that I'm going to be throwing away some
(49:50):
weddings for photo but for me it's worth throwing that away so that's I was kind ofasking.
(50:30):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, what I would do is I would include everything just on one landing page.
So all of the information for three different services, just clearly lay that out.
I'd probably put like a celebrant MC kind of linked and then also make it very clear thatyou do offer DJ as well.
But with that, I just test all three different variations of like celebrant MC, celebrantMC, and then all the trio.
(50:55):
Cause people might be, then you get that data to see where they kind of gravitatedtowards.
But make it very clear on that learning page that you do service everything becausepeople, they don't have to be gravitated.
Like they might just come because you're celebrant and MC and you know that ad performancebetter, but they're really interested in that DJ once they've seen a bit more information
on that actual page.
So it's just about seeing what people actually bite with ads.
(51:17):
It's different to like organic socials, but I would test like celebrant and MC and thenthe trio, but have all the information easily, easily available.
Say by the time someone's looking for a DJ, you've already lost the job.
Like realistically, like if someone's just looking for a DJ, the celebrant job's gone.
(52:01):
Any other questions?
(53:40):
Yeah, cool.
What I would do, so in between both appointments you would say it's about three to sixmonths.
Well, you know, that might, that would just be some more admin work on the backend.
So what you could do is, you know, put together some photos or some videos of a reallyrecent, you know, like a really good wedding that you guys just had at the venue and just
(54:05):
simply say, look, this is a couple.
has to be kind of in the same frame as well.
Someone in the same vibe of that day, just like, look, this is someone who justexperienced what you could experience through our venue.
When you came and had our first appointment, you asked all of these questions.
This is what you're interested in.
and this fits the exact vibe and they kind of lived exactly how you want it to live.
(54:26):
The photos are obviously super important, so you'd have to reach out to the photographersand stuff, but just checking in with them and you don't need to be as forceful or as
frequent with that because it is a big process and it is over a longer time span.
Like we only really have two weeks to kind of lock someone in before they start findingsomeone else.
A venue, takes a little bit longer.
They have to visit multiple places.
(54:47):
They might have to travel.
So you could just do like a...
every three, four weeks, just a simple check in, providing that new piece of informationor maybe what else they should consider when they're looking at different venues.
Just asking them or just guiding them in that direction of here's what you should ask thenext venue people, here's what to consider when you plan a venue.
(55:07):
Look for the light, look for the place for wet weather option, look for the locations forphotos, give them all that information so they can, you know, even if they don't have that
decision with you, they might go to someone else.
and they have a better informed decision, so you're helping them anyway.
And then if they had a bad experience at that other venue, they might recommend you guysfrom that point forward.
(55:28):
So all you want to do, every time that we check in with people, we just want to guide themand ask them questions as well, but also tell them what they should expect when they're
going through that journey.
And if they have that information, when they're ready, they would have seen that andthey'll just come back, just like, we're ready and thanks so much for helping me.
(55:49):
Yeah.
We better wrap this up.
Yeah.
Just for the time wise, but if you guys have more like more pointed questions, you cancome up to you and ask you questions.
for sure.
I guess, look today we kind of breezed over a lot of things.
Like this is a very in-depth conversation about actual strategies of how to, you know,like what to say in these instances, what to say in your emails and things like that.
(56:11):
It's a very in-depth conversation because there's a lot of points and there's a lot ofpoints in how to actually advertise as well.
So what we're doing with Wedding Marketing Co is we're actually, we've built up a courseand we're building up a community and we're giving everybody here free access to that as
well.
Cause we're going to launch that just to build up the information in the industry.
there isn't, when I was trying to build up my business, had, there was none of this.
(56:33):
There's no business side variations for specific to wedding industry.
So we're trying to increase that in the whole wedding market.
So we're going to give everybody just a free input.
Cause what we want to do is we want everyone to repack horse to shreds.
RooPower, we're doing a cohort.
So a three month stint where we guide people through what to change in their business.
(56:54):
But we haven't done this before.
We've built it and we know what we're doing, but we need people to come in, it to shreds,tell us what to do, tell us what to change.
Because getting feedback is obviously the best way to do things.
So if anyone's interested or if anyone has questions, just come up and we can chat, havesome conversations and then I'll get you guys to sign up.
(57:15):
There's no like catch, I'm not going to sell you on anything.
It's just going to be free so we can kind of build up the rapport of what to actually doand how to actually give this information out.
Awesome.
Thanks so much mate.
Cool guys.
Thanks mate.
Appreciate it.
Thank you
(57:36):
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