November 25, 2025 • 52 mins
Welcome to Episode 73 of the Wed.Co Podcast. Today, Toga sit’s down with Jay Geering again to discuss the journey that Toga has been on to create his current brand The Tognazzinis.
In this conversation, Toga and Jay discuss the strategic approach to ad spending and the mindset required for business growth. They reflect on their experiences with ad content creation and the importance of protecting investments while aiming for significant financial goals. Toga emphasizes an all-in mentality that drives their success and the fluctuations in bookings they experienced during this period.
Takeaways
- Change is often necessary for growth.
- Investing in the right expertise can yield significant returns.
- Embrace new marketing strategies to stay relevant in a changing landscape.
- You can't do it all, you need help
Your support enables us to bring more enriching conversations and insights to both engaged couples and wedding professionals.
Stay connected with us on Instagram at @wed.copodcast and watch all your favorite wedding professionals on our YouTube channel @wed.copodcast.
Catch our episodes on major podcast platforms like Apple, Spotify, and IheartRadio, all under WedCo Podcast.
Join us for our next episode on the Wed.Co Podcast, where we continue to explore the mesmerizing and ever-changing landscape of weddings.
Toga xxx
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Wedco podcast, your ultimate guide to the wedding world.
Whether you're a bride, groom or wedding vendor, this is the place to be.
Join us as we dive into real stories, expert advice and behind the scenes insights to helpyou plan the perfect day.
So grab a seat and let's celebrate love, connection and creativity together.
Before we get into this episode, I'd love to ask you a super quick and easy favor.
(00:24):
If you're enjoying the Wedco podcast, please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify orYouTube.
It might seem small, but it makes a huge difference in helping the podcast grow and meansI can keep bringing on amazing vendors to share their insights with you.
Thank you so much for your support.
It truly means the world.
Hello and welcome to the web co podcast.
I'm Steve Togger.
And today we've got Jay back in the studio with us to round two.
(00:44):
um After we finished up recording last week, uh Jay has been twisting my arm to kind ofcome on here and tell my story.
um So begrudgingly, I've come back on.
And yeah, we're just gonna unpack a little bit of the last, I guess, 14 years in thewedding industry for me, how things have changed, and how leaning on experts, I guess, has
(01:07):
changed my whole outlook on honestly on life, not just work in the wedding industry, butlife as a whole.
So thanks for twisting my arm, mate.
The pleasure's all mine.
But I think the reason I wanted to do this is because I think your story is so unique, butalso so relatable to people as well.
You were telling me you've been doing this for 14 years.
(01:28):
Up until two years ago, you had no growth.
You were stuck doing how many weddings a year?
it was always 30 to 35 kind of no matter what I thought I was doing.
It was kind of always at 30 to 35.
It was photo weddings for maybe the first eight years was just photo.
And then from that point, it kind of went to photo video, but it was always kind of stuckat that 30, I guess he is yeah 30 every year.
(01:51):
Yeah.
And you were telling me how two years ago you were kind of like presented with thiscrossing the road.
Yeah, yeah, this turning point where either you had to change how things were working.
You got five kids.
you got a beautiful wife.
Life is expensive.
And the money that you were making, although very good, in terms of the industry and whatyou'd have achieved so far.
(02:15):
um I love that you paint this picture of like, it's do or die.
I've got to find a way to make this work.
Yeah.
or I've got to get another job.
Yep.
Take us back to that moment and help us understand what was going through your mind andwhat was the result of that thought process.
Well, there's nothing like having another baby to uh put your back up against the wall.
(02:40):
um Like as many people know, like we earn a really good income, but we live in Byron Bay.
So the cost of living is super expensive here.
And we've made that decision.
Our kids go to beautiful schools.
We live close to the beach and that's all things that we wouldn't take away.
I would always said I would work harder so that we can stay in this area because we lovewhere we live.
You know, I'm not afraid of doing hard work.
(03:01):
um
but it definitely got to the point where we had four kids at the time.
Margo was on her way and I was looking at my bookings and usually by, I must have beenlooking maybe in October or November and I was like, I've got six weddings booked for next
year.
And like I was thinking, I'm like, cool, like that's, you know, maybe 40 grand that I'vegot coming in for next year.
Whereas typically up until that point, I'd always have 25 weddings.
(03:25):
So like, I'm like, cool, I've got money sitting there.
I'm not stressed.
I know I'm going to book another 10 or 15 throughout that year.
Um, and so it was just like a really rude awakening.
Um, things like they weren't tight.
We still go out and we have food and we have dinners and all that kind of stuff.
But it was the first time where I was like, it was really like a kind of tight in thechest.
(03:47):
Like this is getting real.
Um, which was crazy because everything I had done, even though I hadn't done much in thepast, I'd always had those 30 to 35 weddings.
know, I'd done.
Meta ads back when it was Facebook ads at the very start.
And I remember putting in like 10 bucks or something in like, you'd get a couple of leads.
And then all of a sudden, you know, Instagram's not getting anything.
(04:08):
You're not getting like referrals from venues that you used to.
And just like, it all started to dry up and it was, I think it was already the writing wason the wall with, with oh social media that by that stage, it was pay to play.
And I just hadn't realized that yet.
And everyone's telling me like, you've just got to post, you know, really good content onsocial media and posting all the time and you'll get the bookings.
(04:30):
And I just was like, I was probably getting like two or three leads a month.
And then like, I still like, if I booked one of those, I'd be like stoked.
But it just, it almost, I think a lot of people in the wedding industry will know whenyou're busy with work, your next season is quiet because you were so busy in the moment,
you're not really focusing on the future.
(04:52):
And then you get to the future and it's quiet and then you're like, shit, I need toactually start working hard.
And then your next season is busy again, but it's just not sustainable.
It just feels like it's been 10 years of a roller coaster.
Yeah.
Really.
highs, lows, working in the business versus on the business.
So you got to this point in your life where you're like, oh shit.
Baby number five, Margo, we love you, thanks for the inspiration.
(05:15):
And obviously there was that turning point.
I'm really keen to lean in real quick because you approached this from a rather logical,kind of like analytical point of view, which I love.
Run us through like the emotions because no doubt there was this element of...
I've got to find a way to make this work.
How did you deal with that?
Because I for a lot of people like growing or stepping into or expanding what they'redoing, it's challenging.
(05:40):
There's emotions, there's preconceived ideas and beliefs around what's possible.
Like how did you navigate that point?
Or was it simply that you got to a point where had no choice?
Honestly, it was pretty close to no choice.
It was like, okay.
And honestly, it's like, okay, what other job can I do that gives me the freedom and theincome that I get from weddings?
(06:01):
And I was looking around, I'm like, there's nothing like there really isn't.
I'm not like skilled in, I'm not a builder.
I'm not all these other things.
And so it's like, I've built this this career over the last 10 years.
And there isn't something that I can just go and replace that income with.
And so it really was
is like, even Kashia, like we had four kids at times, she's like, maybe I need to go backto work.
(06:22):
And I'm like, well, that's not an option.
You know, like I know how important it is for Kashia to be able to stay home with the kidsand nurture them because there's going to be a time in our lives when they're all at
school and they don't need us as much and she's going to crush work again.
But at the moment, we'd had those discussions where she's like, it is super important thatI'm with the kids.
And so it was just like a, yeah, like a super emotional time where it's like, you just gotto fucking step up.
(06:47):
um
I didn't know what that meant.
But I was just like, I don't have a choice.
This is it.
Yeah.
So, um, but yeah, it was pretty eye opening to, think you're cruising and then one minuteyou're like, Oh, we're not fucking cruising.
We're not.
Yeah.
It just got real tough real quick.
(07:07):
Yeah.
I reckon there's a whole nother podcast we can do on raising five kids roles andsupporting and like how you do that, because how you guys do it, like, I don't know.
I don't have kids yet.
I look at you guys and I salute you because I'm like five kids running two businesses nowand full-time mom and like all the things that go on with having kids.
think it's incredible.
(07:27):
um
I wanna give a teaser and if it's okay, I know you've told me that you've more thandoubled the number of weddings you do per year on average now, consistently for the last
two years.
You've tripled your income, but you've halved your working hours.
People listening to this, they'll be like, how the fuck is he doing that?
(07:50):
That's not possible.
How's he not doing the editing?
Like all these things, which we'll dive into in a second, because I know your processaround that is incredible.
um
take us through the turning point.
So you knew that pay to play was the game forward.
Obviously there was kind of like this high risk in the sense it was unknown.
How did you navigate that?
What was the next steps?
What was the turning point in terms of launching ads?
(08:12):
Yeah, so that was when I think I just listened to like one of the homose books, it wouldhave been like, you know, how to read the leads or offers, whatever it was.
And he had talked about, instead of doing a course or something like that, he was like,okay, I always go to like an agency or someone who knows what they're doing, I'm going to
get the end result.
And then I'm going to kind of back engineer from that, or I'm going to get them to do thatwith me and along the way teach me what they're doing.
(08:38):
And then it kind of, yeah, just get to that point where I know exactly what they're doingto get to that point.
So yeah, I went and approached, yeah, the meta ads agency and same thing had, I honestlydidn't have confidence in them, didn't have confidence myself and like, didn't have
confidence in any, ads agency.
Like, I feel like all of them are just like, yeah, just throw us this money and we'll getyour jobs.
(09:01):
And like, I feel like.
What they promise is never delivered, honestly.
um And I already knew that in the back of my head, but same thing.
was just like, I don't have a choice and I've just got to do something.
Was that from experience or was that kind of like your perceived projection?
Perceived.
100%.
Definitely like there was no prior experience.
It was just that was what was in my head.
You've heard one story you're like, shit, don't want to do that.
(09:22):
High risk.
Exactly.
Yep.
And so like I said, it really was the, don't have a choice.
I've got to do this.
Um, because if I don't, what do I do?
Like there was no plan B.
And so yeah, at the time, um, just for their services, I think, you know, it was, it waslike half a wedding cost was what they were charging me for their services to set up the
(09:45):
ads and the landing page and everything like that.
And then they wanted me to be able to spend, I think at the time was like 50 bucks per dayon ads, which for me was crazy.
Like I was just.
Yep.
And I was like, no, that's insane.
I can't spend that on ads.
And like up until that point, I'd probably spent like $10 boosting a post or somethinglike that.
(10:06):
Exactly.
And I was like, not like you said you were going to commit to this, just do it.
And so it probably took us about two or three weeks to get the ads.
up, I definitely wasn't happy with the copy that they had created.
I didn't think it was going to work.
But at the same time, I was like, let's just go for it.
(10:27):
And then we launched those.
And I was like, if I can make, you know, one, what was it two deposits from weddings, if Iget two weddings booked in, that'll pay for the ads and for the ads agency.
And then I'm just going to keep doing that, because then there's still money on the backend from actually shooting the wedding.
So like maybe for a wedding, I'm paying
you know, 25 % of the cost of the profit of the wedding, I was gonna pay to these guys inads.
(10:51):
But I was like, that's okay, because it's better doing that than having no work.
And I'd already thought about it at that stage where, I mean, the fashion world too, whereyou have an agent, you pay 20 % to them and they book you jobs.
I was like, why isn't there a wedding agent where I can pay them 20 % and they get mewedding bookings?
So I'd actually already approached people with that and just couldn't find anyone to doit.
(11:12):
And so I was more than happy to do that.
um
And then, yeah, it was the first month we booked like 41 grand's worth of weddings.
Yeah, I'm jealous.
Of Herman Schalzman?
I would have been probably about 1500.
So all off like it was about 3500 using their services as well as the ads.
(11:32):
But I was like, cool.
So let's say you put $3,500 into the ATM.
Adds ATM and you pulled out $41,000.
Tell me about that moment because I'm sure at that point where previously you were likeall agencies suck, this won't work.
I've never seen it work.
All of a sudden you've got now $41,000 worth of bookings.
Tell me about that light bulb moment and what it meant for then your trajectory.
(11:57):
It was how much money can I put into ads?
I remember contacting them and I was like, can we double the ad spend?
And they're like, look, we need to create more ad content and everything like that.
So we didn't actually end up doubling it.
And I was like, they're like, look, it's not worth it with the amount of people you'rereaching and everything like that.
There's no point, which I felt good that they were always protecting me from that.
(12:20):
Cause I would have just dumped money.
At that stage, I was like, I'm going to make 41 grand every single month.
If I double that, that's 80, you know?
And that was just in my head, that's what was gonna happen.
So yeah, was just always all in by that stage.
yeah, it just kind of from that month, it just kept happening.
think it was like maybe 30, it kind of was between 25 and 35,000 in bookings, like since,like honestly since.
(12:46):
And I have been super lazy with creating new content and everything like that.
My lead cost has gone up.
but it's still regular that much every single month.
But you've run the same creative now for.
uh So most agency would say refreshing everything, you three to maybe six.
they were on me.
(13:06):
They were on me for sure.
They're like, dude, what are you doing?
I'm like, that's fine.
Like, I don't care.
Like, because the return was there.
the thing.
It's working.
It's not broken.
It's still working.
Exactly.
And I think as long as it's producing a profit, I think I want to touch on somethingbecause a lot of people when they're going into something new, particularly with money and
investment of ad spend agency, et cetera, a lot of people will have this projection intheir mind.
(13:30):
Well, I want to see at least a 10 times return.
They go to the best case kind of like minimum return.
Whereas I like what you did because your mindset was
I need to make this work as long as I cover my bases, I'm good because I'm generatingincome.
No one wants to work for free.
I get that.
But there is the value in terms of having bookings there.
(13:51):
You're keeping your cashflow running.
And then obviously you got a much better result as well.
Okay, so we've solved problem one, which was not enough interest or leads, enoughbookings.
We're now getting a surplus number of bookings coming through.
m
what was the next problem that you had to solve in kind of like this process?
Because no doubt that would have been a blessing, but also a bit of a curse, right?
(14:13):
Yeah, for sure.
And it's like, up until that point, every wedding I got back when I was busy was like, youalmost didn't want to book it because you knew that was another video you had to edit.
That was another set of photos you had to edit.
So it's like you almost subconsciously were, yeah, just stifling your growth because youcouldn't take on more work.
And I remember at the time, like for earlier like five years, I was working with Joel andI was pretty much...
(14:40):
teaching him like he kind of came in from us was searching with us never had a businessand we kind of helped him grow his business.
And he actually hired a video editor before us.
And it was after I gave him the advice, why don't you have a video editor for but I justhadn't taken it myself.
And so then he's doing it and he's like, what are you doing?
Get a video editor.
And so yeah, I was chatting to Joel and I was just like, okay, cool.
(15:00):
I've just got to do this.
And from that point kind of went down that route.
He actually helped me train up this editor because he'd done it before and he knew howwhat he was doing.
And so, yeah, we kind of went through and trained up this editor.
And then all of a sudden, you know, for videos, I was doing a ceremony and a speeches editand I just have to do the highlight.
And then it would get to the point where like, now they can do the culling.
(15:22):
Now they can do the highlight.
And all of a sudden that roadblock of, I could only ever do 30, 35 weddings.
All of a sudden that was gone because I know like now they can probably do 40 a year iscomfy.
I don't want them to be rushing.
I want really quality work.
And so I'd prefer to give them about a week and a half to get through a full wedding,which realistically I could probably do in three days, but I just wanted them to have the
(15:49):
time.
Two things that come from that, because I'm sure people listening to this will be going,okay, well, number one, you're letting go of your art.
Creators are artists, even though they have a unique style and how they shoot is probablylike continuous over time.
It is an art form in terms of capturing the day and editing and putting that sort ofspecial touches.
Number one, how did you navigate that sense of branding?
(16:12):
Number two, hiring staff, it's into profit.
How did you navigate that?
Well, I guess having the surplus from the ads and the bookings, I still have to pay for afull computer setup for these guys.
And so there was still $5,000 in expenses to set up, like the computer setup, you'regetting hard drives, you're everything you need.
um But then it was, as far as the art side of things, I was always editing a weddingmyself and then also giving them the wedding and being like, cool, I want to see what you
(16:43):
put together with this footage.
um I'd finish up at a wedding.
And I'd be straight on my phone and I'd be making notes.
Okay, this happened, this happened, this happened.
This is really important.
Dad did this.
And I just make voice notes that I'd send to the editor, ah you know, the next day so thatthey can kind of get an idea of what that wedding was like.
And then I go
I was like, that's so important because our wedding, got married two years ago, amazingphotographers, amazing videographer there on the day, the editors, it was a team, it
(17:11):
wasn't them.
They missed so much of what was special on the first edit run that we had to go throughand like almost minute by minute, hey, what about this?
And what about that?
I think that tip right there, like from a user point of view had our team who was incharge of that, had that sort of like in-house SOP.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
(17:32):
kind of like communicate that across to the editors, that would have been a game changerfor us because in the end, we got a product that we were pretty happy with.
But I feel like there's so much gold in the process of how you have done this to maintaina certain level of quality.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's because like, you can't blame the editor because they're just looking for prettyshots.
Totally.
They're like, this looks pretty.
(17:52):
I've got no idea what the day was like.
So I'm just going to choose the prettiest shots and it's going to look beautiful.
to the point of the music choice for us.
Lana Del Rey.
No offense.
Do not like that music.
It was so mopey and dreary and it didn't capture the essence.
So I think that's really cool to know because I think it shows that it is possible the waythat you've done this and no doubt put a lot of time and extra in and on top of the normal
(18:16):
editing you would have done.
It's like pay a lot more time upfront.
to save time on the backend.
I think it's really cool to kind of like communicate that to people who are listeningbecause it gives them a process to understand, I can still maintain a level of quality and
control without sacrificing my unique touch.
Yeah, and even like as simple as photographers and videographers might get funny aboutthis where like I'll have brides and grooms like, hey, can we send you a Pinterest board?
(18:41):
Can we send you through videos we like?
I'm like, of course, like why my goal is to take the photos that you want and take thevideos you want.
Why would I not want to see what you love?
know, and so that'll like, we'll send out a questionnaire of like, what's important, youknow, for your wedding film.
you know, is this going to be high energy?
Is it going to be about the party?
Is it going to be all about the portraits?
(19:01):
And we can kind of get an idea of what they like and then even get ideas from they'll sendus past videos of ours that they love, or they'll send even other brands of videos they
love.
We can kind of get a really good understanding of what they're looking for with the edit.
And because you can edit a wedding five different ways, like just it can be super slow mo,it can be super fast and know, punchy, but you kind of need to know what they're looking
(19:21):
for to be able to deliver to.
And um yeah, so it's just I think the more
pre-production you can do before the wedding, the better it is and the more happy becauseall we want is a couple to be super happy.
We don't want revision requests.
know, like we want them to get it and be like, this is the best.
And then it just wins for everyone.
(19:41):
Yeah.
So it's just the more effort you can put in ahead of time, the better for sure.
And so coming back to then how did you navigate this kind of extra costs to scalingbecause your goal was to scale so you can work half time, you're still tripling your
income.
How did you navigate that?
Because I think a lot of people listening this might not really understand how affordableit is to do this in a way that actually produces a great output, but also helps you scale.
(20:07):
Well, like if you go say over to the States, there's like all these big, you know, weddingwebsites where you can get your videos edited and they're pretty much say about a thousand
bucks a wedding is what you would get, but you wouldn't necessarily get the same editorevery time.
You just kind of get a random editor that will say, think, get your footage.
They're probably not going to pay attention to any notes that you send them.
And you're just going to pay a thousand bucks.
(20:28):
It's going to be pretty edit.
Whereas like for this, you know, all up, if you say you averaged out the cost of
the full setup across say two years or something like that.
All up, you're paying like 50 bucks per week for that over the course of two years.
And then each wedding might cost us $300 to get edited.
(20:50):
And same thing, it's completely finished.
We're getting it and it's 80 % done.
And then I'm like, cool, I wanna change this, this, this color, not so much on that one.
Or what about this speech?
There was a better part that we like from this speech.
So we're still kind of quality controlling.
But it feels like for a wedding videos in particular, the biggest part of your time isactually looking through all the footage, creating the story.
(21:13):
That's the hard part where you've just got to be so focused and you can't have any othernoise in your life at all.
And that's the really hard part.
And that's when it doesn't take too long, but just to get in that mindset to sit down andactually start, it's really hard, especially like...
Especially like with most people's mindsets these days where they've got like theirattention span is this.
(21:37):
Okay, cool.
I'm to sit in front of a computer for four hours and I'm not going to listen to podcastsor music or anything.
I'm just going to look at this.
It's tough.
And so it's just a really good starting point for us.
Like 80 % done.
I'm like, this is the best because then I'm just looking at, what sound effects can we addhere?
What kind of color can we do here?
Can we add anything extra to it?
Whereas usually by 80 % when I was doing it myself, I'm like, it's done.
(21:58):
You know, like I'm so over it by that stage that you're like good enough.
whereas I'm getting it when it's good enough to add that extra bit on top of
So it almost sounds like you're improving the quality of the product overall and theexperience for the client.
hands down, like without a doubt.
Like I get videos back from the editors.
I'm like, I could never done that shit.
I love this perspective because I'm a bit of a perfectionist in my work, always have beenacross my life in pretty much every single domain.
(22:25):
And I think people who are by nature artists, they're creative, they like to have a highlevel of kind of control over the process.
But I love this kind of switch on perspective around outsourcing some of that process, atleast 80 % of it, so that you can actually free up your time and improve the overall
quality of output that you actually put into the market.
(22:47):
Well, I talked to them and like Hollywood is a person who shoots a film, the one whodirects it, the one who edits it, the one that does the music, you know, like it's like
every other industry, this would never be one person.
Like, why are we trying to be the people who film it?
There's people that just do color.
There's people that just do music that just do, you know, the filming.
Like, why would you not hire the best people in every spot?
(23:09):
And I don't see that is seen as a detriment in our industry, but that just doesn't makesense to me.
Well, it's interesting because that perspective almost takes you out of a traditionalcreative artist, because your perspective there is, I don't have all the answers.
Yeah.
(23:29):
But other people do and they're probably better at doing those things than I am.
So what I learned from them, yeah.
sure.
Tell me this as well, in terms of SOPs uh systems in place, it all sounds verycomplicated.
From like the outside looking at it sounds complicated in terms of lots of little movingparts.
Is that hard for another creator to actually create an input into their business?
(23:52):
Or like, how would you take someone through that process in terms of developing thoseSOPs?
loom is your best friend.
Man, the amount of times that I will just, I'll just do it myself.
Like you just do that in the rest of your life.
You're like, I'm not going to try and teach you, I'll just do it myself.
And so now for each stage, I've just created little loom videos of I open up DaVinci andthis is how I import the footage.
(24:16):
And I just like do a loom and I'm talking as I'm doing it.
This is what I'm doing right now.
Cool.
Done.
SOP number one done.
And even like with
loom, they've got you know, AI, they'll create an SOP for you with timestamps and all thatkind of thing.
Like it's so simple these days.
And I'll just run through every single piece.
The biggest part was probably with the video editing.
(24:37):
But then also Hazel does, Hazel does all my photos.
She does all my slideshows.
She does all my admin like Hazel is a godsend.
uh And it just like I just had to every single little piece.
And even if you think it's tiny, just record it and just talk to them.
and just be like, this is what I'm doing.
And this is what I need you to do every time.
And then if it comes back and you haven't done this, I need you to refer to this becausethis is what I need you to do every time.
(25:01):
And so just makes it really clear and it's not abstract what you want, you know, youroutsource people to do.
It's, it just keeps really like everything really clear for both parties.
And then also, if they don't understand, awesome, let's record like, what don't youunderstand?
And let me record it again.
And now do you understand it?
And like we used to do it where
(25:22):
I would just do an SOP and just give it to them and be like, I want you to do this with noprior knowledge whatsoever.
And if they can do that from that SOP, you've won.
And if they can't, then you need to refine it a little bit.
So it definitely is just like testing, but you just get better and better at doing it andgetting out of the mindset of, I'll just do it because you can do it in two minutes.
(25:43):
It might take you 10 minutes to record, but then you're never doing that two minutes everagain.
So yeah, that's, that was definitely a big, you know, mind shift like change as well.
What would you say the top three pivots you've made?
It sounds like ads number one.
SOPs outsourcing number two.
Is there anything else that you did that you found really helped you to step out of thatkind of like, I'm doing everything role to kind of like almost like I'm driving forward
(26:10):
and growing an actual business.
They were definitely the main ones.
There's still obviously there's parts of the business that I still struggle with and Ineed to improve in.
But as far as like it felt like as soon as the leads were coming in, obviously then that'swhen we spoke and I was like, in another world, I was like, you're getting, know,
(26:33):
pretty much 30, 35 grams worth of bookings every single month, I'd be like, like, that'sjust a completely other world in the past.
But then you get to that point and you're like, well, I'm booking one in every seven oreight.
What does that look like if it's one in every, you know, four or five or five or six?
And so that's when we started talking and it was like really kind of trying to dial downon those little one percenters.
which add up over time and just like, cool, well, I can definitely have a betterfollow-up.
(26:57):
And I started hiring copywriters to redo my replies and like, you know, all my templatesfor how I reply to bids.
And so I had like three different people working on templates.
So how can I make that 1 % better across every stage?
And then once we actually get them on a call, well, I suck at phone calls because I neverasked for the sale, but like, how can I improve that?
And that was almost my, I couldn't be bothered putting time and effort into making moreads, which I knew I should be doing.
(27:22):
But I was like, if I'm not doing that, but I'm improving this part, then that negates thefact that I need to change this part.
Yeah, I think that's a really wise perspective because having been in coaching businessworld now for 20 years, a lot of people shoot for perfect when you don't need it to be
perfect for it to work really freaking well.
Yeah.
(27:42):
Like even your ads case in point, you know, they've been running for a year and a halfnow.
Traditionally, would say let's refresh those creatives.
But you know what, one of my best performing ads I ever had, I didn't touch for two years.
And it brought a shit ton of money.
Yeah, because it works.
The thing I like
on that is you can still have something that's not working as well as when you firstlaunched, i.e.
(28:03):
now your cost per lead or cost per close is double.
But we can go and improve one other metric, which is your close rate, your follow-up rate,or how you're nurturing those leads into that final decision and you can still get a
better outcome.
So I like that because I think if I look back from the beginning of your story, thingsweren't perfect, you took action.
(28:23):
You got a really great result.
you took action.
Yeah, you kind of like kicked the problem can down the road not getting caught up in theweeds of it needs to be perfect today.
Yeah, definitely with editing with ads with follow up clunky on sales.
I when we first met, I was like talking through your sales process and you're like, I siton a zoom and I smile and I'm, know, like, you know, have a good report and good chat.
(28:44):
I'm like, you asked for the sale.
Yeah, what's next?
Like where to?
So again, it's like I make a joke of that.
But there's always something we can do better.
It just doesn't need to be perfect to actually work.
because then like if it's perfect, you just stop and focus on that and you don't goanywhere because you can always like it's diminishing returns trying to get to perfect
where there's other things that you can kind of get way better returns.
(29:07):
It's like another like Hormozzi thing is like, if it's not going to make you know, a 10 %difference in your business, like why even bother doing it?
You know, like there's there is a cost to changing things as well.
And like starting to understand that and, and like, this needs to change this needs tochange.
does it or you're just trying to be busy as well.
So it's kind of there, it is a constant thing where you have to continually like checkyourself.
(29:31):
And like, I trying to improve things or is this just because I need something to do rightnow?
So yeah, it's a tricky one that you just have to kind of keep refining over time.
Would you consider yourself a perfectionist?
I would, I'm not, but I get frustrated that I'm not.
(29:52):
Okay.
Yeah.
So I, I've definitely always been really good in my life.
90 % of being awesome to get the other 10 % I've always struggled.
Um, I get to a lot, like a 90 % which in the, in the course of my life has led me inreally good directions, but I get really frustrated.
even like building and stuff like that.
I'm like, that's great.
(30:12):
And then like, there'll be the little 10 % at the end that I stuff up.
So yeah, I don't think I am a perfectionist, which has helped me in my life.
I think if I was more when I speak to other people that are editing their photos, andthey're like this one or this one, I'm like, dude, there's no difference.
There's no like the couple, they're not gonna know this is a beautiful photo, this one andthis one.
(30:34):
And they've just spent like an extra half an hour doing this.
And so there is a little bit of letting go and knowing that like what you're doing isgreat.
And I think people in this in the creative field, they aren't happy with what they'reproducing, it could always be better, which always makes you work better over time.
But there also has to be a point where you're just like, what I do is great and appreciatewhat you do.
(30:59):
See, I think that's actually served you well.
Because I think a lot of people, myself included, waste a lot of time and energy trying toperfect that last 10%, 20%, whatever it might be.
Yeah.
And I don't think that's about diminishing the quality of the output.
think like you said, there's this level of I want it to be as good as I can do, whichyou've said admittedly is only 90%.
(31:20):
Yep.
Typically across time.
Yeah.
But I think not getting caught up in that final 10 % details probably enabled you tooutsource and recognize, hey, I'm not the best.
I need help.
Yeah.
And that's probably served you really well because again, you don't have success likeyou've had without getting help and realizing that a man is not a solo island.
Like he needs support.
(31:41):
He needs coaching.
He needs strategies.
He needs help to actually get him to where he wants to go.
Yeah.
And it's like not also falling into the pitfalls.
I look at other brands that they charge double what I do.
They are artists, but I know that they've got 10 weddings they need to edit and they sitthere every hour of every day editing videos.
And I'm like, would I want that life?
(32:03):
Like, okay, so I'll shoot double the amount of weddings that they shoot.
So we make the same income, but then I'm not sitting there every day doing the editing.
And so it's like, would I prefer to shoot 20 more weddings and have those days?
or be sitting there Monday to Friday every single week doing that.
And it's a super easy decision for me.
Like it's not even a question.
(32:23):
And so I think that that helps as well, like getting clear on, am I this artist, like Isaid, spending half an hour on this photo to finish it up?
Or do I know what I produce?
Like, dude, couples love what we give them.
And like the couples that we work with, ah they're tradies, they own small businesses,they're not
(32:45):
you know, they're not models, they're they're just like down to earth people.
And the photos and the videos that we give them are going to be the best photos and videosthey ever have themselves like their whole life.
And so it's just like even that is a really nice feeling to be able to give to people.
And so then like when I deliver that and they're stoked, it's, just kind of lifts up likewhat we're doing is good enough.
(33:09):
And I mean, I don't want to be just good enough, but it like they love it.
So it's just like
working out where you sit in that spectrum, I think.
Tell me now what's life like that you've created a really profitable business, not onlyfrom income, but a time-based point of view.
What are you now doing with your free time that you freed up as a result of this?
(33:30):
Well, just start another business and just have no free time.
um Actually, like when you know, the last couple years has been really nice with you know,we've had our fifth kid, um three of them are in school now.
So like, it's just been a lot of time with the family.
um Finally, not checking out bank account if we can afford that a side bowl, you know,like just not having to worry about that.
(33:56):
We know there's money there.
Everything was good.
Um, it still is, we're just in the growth stage of like the studio at the moment.
So it's just, and it's just shifting mindsets again, where pre all this, my wife was, hada podcast.
We're recording it for, you know, every week she would record at home.
(34:17):
We'd have Brecky with the six of us at the time.
And then we'd kick the kids outside like, Oh, we need to set this up and everything.
And, you know, and like, was because we didn't want to pay for a studio for her to recordit.
And so we did that for two years and it's like, it was absolute hell, it sucked.
And so it got to the point where we were doing well enough with the weddings and I hadenough free time.
I was like, why don't we look at getting a space?
(34:37):
And I was like, and I also knew that a space like this, like a podcast studio would doreally well in Byron because I knew friends were going to the Gold Coast to record and I
knew there was something there.
But it just gave me time to be able to, to build this essentially.
So without that as the base.
(34:57):
this also was never an opportunity.
So it just gave me a bigger chance to be able to continue to build and then yeah, evenlike hire more staff members for the weddings to make sure that's even running better and
tighter.
So because like obviously more time is going to this, but I need to make sure that thewedding side of thing is running really smoothly as well because that essentially is what
(35:18):
pays for our lifestyle and our life and growth.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And so what's the vision now?
Like, where are you taking things?
What do you want to do with this podcast?
Yep.
With the studio, obviously.
Yep.
Well, it's like, we wanted a space.
felt like I had, I try to help friends.
(35:39):
Like that's been, that's almost a trap too.
I've had people in the past where like, all I want to do is help people.
And you want to help people that don't want help.
And like the amount of times, like I'll just pour everything into people like this, yougot to do this, this, this, this, this.
And like, here's a proof this works.
And then they just don't take your advice and it crushes you.
(35:59):
Like it sucks.
It's like, because all you want, you just want to see your friends and your family doreally well.
And when they don't take advice that is so tangible and so real to you, it's, justfrustrating.
And so like, we kind of wanted to build out, I'm like still like a part of like Instagramgroups with like videographers and stuff.
(36:21):
And, and like I just yesterday, they're like, Oh, how's everyone going with backlog?
And everyone's like, I'm dead 10 deep.
You
everyone's just like falling apart.
And it's hard not to laugh because I've offered these guys before.
like, we can edit your videos for you if you want, or like we can step you through theexact way of how we hired our staff.
It's not a big cost when weddings are a big ticket item.
(36:45):
People spend money on weddings.
okay, you take profit from one or two weddings and set this whole thing up.
And then for the rest of the year,
cool, you got to put in say, three months of hard work to train this person.
But then you're going to be doing this for another 10 years.
You're good.
um So I just wanted to kind of find more people that were ready to hear the advice that Ihad.
(37:09):
And also just to share in the wedding industry.
And I actually, like I feel like a lot of other industries, there's a lot of coaches thatare like, I'm the best.
Listen to everything I say.
And so I've been trying like really hard to be like, I am 100 % middle of the road,wedding photo and video.
(37:30):
I'm not the artist.
I don't shoot luxury weddings.
There's, there's nothing special about what I like, what I am or what I do.
And it's like more so the people that I've had around me that have helped me elevate towhere I am.
And it's, I don't want to be a millionaire.
I want to be able to have time with my five kids and I want to be able to pursue otherbusinesses because I really love business.
(37:51):
And I want like the time and space, but still have the income to come in to support that.
And I think there's, like you said, in last week's episode was people aren't shootingweddings or in the wedding industry to make a killing.
They love the passion of it.
And I think that's where everyone is.
But if you can do that and do that well and create a lifestyle around it, that's kind ofwhere I want to be able to help more people with.
(38:14):
It's, um I don't know, it's just.
It just feels so simple to me after the help and the advice that I've got that that's whylike, I want to bring you on.
I want to bring Shani on.
Like I want to have all these experts to come on to just make it like a no brainer.
Like you can do this.
You just probably can't do it alone.
(38:34):
Yeah.
So that's the goal at the moment.
hindsight is beautiful.
I said is also kind of like very clear and simple.
Yeah, should have bought Yes, 1000.
Bitcoin.
Yeah.
15 years ago.
What do you think it takes for someone to go from?
I can't do this.
(38:56):
To I want to grow my business.
What's the key shift there beyond having a baby?
Beyond obviously putting yourself
into a corner.
mean, pain is a wonderful motivator.
Yeah, the best motivator.
What do you think it takes for someone to really make that pivot shift in their mind?
Because I know a lot of people that feels like letting go of their baby, of theircreation, etc.
(39:20):
Like, what is the shift knowing that not everybody wants to make that shift, but for thosepeople who do want to make that shift and do want to grow their business?
Yep.
think that's a tough one.
Because I know everyone that starts their business, you've got the most motivation, thefirst year, two, three, you've got all this motivation, and you're gonna conquer the
world, and you're gonna be amazing.
(39:40):
And you're gonna go to Europe and shoot European weddings all the time.
And that just that motivation happens.
But then after that two or three years, it's just kind of like, you're just coasting, youknow, and that's when it actually is when you're just earning enough.
And you're like, you know, they talk like
being comfortable is death.
You know, it's like, as soon as you get to that comfortable point, why would you changeanything?
(40:04):
And I can only speak from experience, like it was pain, like that's the only thing thatchanged it for me.
I don't have a special story where all of a sudden, I'm like this super intellect thatjust knew business.
It was pain for me.
And I really think within our industry, it'll be people, like I said, they've
they're too deep in the backlog.
They booked weddings and now they've got 15 weddings they need to edit.
(40:27):
They're not gonna get them done by Christmas.
And all of a sudden they're gonna be stressing because they're gonna get hounded by bridesand grooms because they want their videos before Christmas.
And now 2026 and 2027 are gonna be dead because they were just focused on this.
And so...
For me, the proof in that was like, I didn't change until I had to.
I hope people are smart enough that they would beforehand.
(40:52):
But then also I didn't really have someone to guide me like what I'm trying to be to otherpeople.
I definitely didn't have that.
And I don't know if I would have taken the advice at the time, but if I had a had.
almost that proof and someone to like hold your hand along the way.
(41:15):
I think that would have helped a lot.
And yeah, like I said, mainly with the proof of it.
But also like there wasn't shady because there's so many people that want to help you andlike you're like, you don't care.
Like I'm just a number.
don't give a fuck.
You know, there's so many shady people in that industry that I think it's just havingsomeone approachable.
(41:35):
But then also
what's worked for me in the past is having like, actually, that was a game changer,having, um, going into like the men's group that I skipped over that before, but even that
and having accountability to other people, this is what I said I'm going to do this week.
And knowing that like your next call was coming up in a couple of days and you're like,I've got to get this shit done.
(41:58):
You know, like that was really good for me in changing like my integrity, both to thegroup and to myself.
And like, started actually doing what I said I was going to do.
And so that's like a big thing that I would love to create is people doing shit togetherand lifting each other up and holding each other accountable.
(42:18):
Because I still know like, okay, I need to create the ads 100 % I do need to that'ssomething I can do.
It would take me a day and it's done.
I need to do branding.
I need to like I need to raise prices, but I'm too scared to do it.
So it's like, need like that people around me so that we can all grow together as well.
(42:40):
Well, I think that's what I'm excited about with this cohort that we're launching becausebeyond the pain of having a fifth kid and the joy, know, beyond that element of like, I
need to change, otherwise nothing's going to change is having a simple, actionable planthat you're held accountable on.
(43:02):
but is easy because when you've got all these ideas and all these possibilities and youdon't know where to start and what comes next and you're kicking that can it's kind like
sometimes it feels like a bowling ball, know, just, you know, left and right.
And you don't really feel like you're getting that direction.
I think having a uh finite eight week sprint, 12 week sprint that you can set sometangible goals and have a process and a pathway to follow.
(43:26):
Phase one, I do this.
Did I do it?
Yes.
Tick.
Good.
What was good?
Okay.
Let's improve that.
Next step.
next step within a supportive environment.
think it only improves, said only it drastically improves your chances of succeeding.
And we all have shit days.
We all have shit days.
And I think on those days to be able to lean into be vulnerable, say, Hey, I'm strugglingwith this, or you're looking at other people's wins.
(43:51):
Collectively, we rise as a group.
Yep.
And even like not having a set thing that has to be done because there might be people,they're crushing branding, but I don't advertise or I don't do this, like not even having
a set thing over that amount of time.
And what I, a pet peeve of me is like you go to a coach and they're kind of like up hereand everyone else is below here and they're telling you to do all this stuff, but then you
(44:16):
don't actually see if they're doing that.
And it's all like kind of smoke and mirrors to see
they're up on this pedestal and you're trying to get to them.
Whereas I like the fact, like I said, I really want to work on branding.
And so from January, I'm going to like, we're going to get the branding person in.
And also I'm going to take that leap where I am raising prices and I'm not coming backdown.
(44:36):
And this is where we're going to do.
We're going to double or triple our leads so that I'm comfortable with that.
But that's going to be scary as hell for me, you But I think the value in people seeingyou do that over the next eight weeks, there's value to be had because
It's one thing to tell people like, just scared, just do it anyway.
But like, if you're actually acting as like, and you're actually doing that at the sametime, they can't make an excuse to like, well, you know, I can't do that because like I'm
(45:03):
doing it.
And there's risk for me there, you know?
So I think it's going to be really nice to be able to have people all lift up to eachother together, hold each other accountable.
You said you were going to do the ads last week.
Why haven't you done them?
You said you were gonna call that sales call last week.
Why didn't you?
We wanna see it.
Everyone wants to see it.
We wanna see how crap you were.
know, because you're only gonna get better.
It's true.
And everyone, it's like the value in a community, there might be one person that just hasthis small little bit of knowledge and one person needs it.
(45:33):
But then they said it's that person and it just spreads around everyone.
It's not so much all in the experts.
It's gonna be little people that they don't even know the knowledge they've got.
And then that just gets filtered down.
So I don't know, I've always been the amount of like photography groups and coachings andeverything I've been in the past.
And the best ones I've ever been to have been communities where like sometimes I wouldn'teven rock up to the like, you know, the coach talking, it'd be more so just being a part
(45:58):
of the group and everyone like being there together.
And I just that was the part I loved.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mate, that's very exciting.
I'm almost thinking what we should look at doing is templating a lot of this for them, butalso maybe, I don't know, I imagine we just do plug and play, take this landing page,
template it in.
Exactly.
Yeah, for sure.
(46:19):
Just make it like easy because like otherwise, yeah, it's you can go to courses and thenyou look at it you're like, too hard, you know.
It's going to take me five hours by the time I switch on my computer three hours.
uh
So I think it is just making it as easy as possible for people.
And then like the proof is there as soon as it starts working, everyone's like, they'regonna have the same feeling as me.
(46:39):
Why didn't I do this 10 years ago?
Because now I did this and it cost me like a wedding, like a wedding worth of profit to dothis.
And now I'm going to book I know I'm either gonna outsource and I'm going to book 20 morebecause I don't have to worry about the editing.
Yeah, all my prices are going to go up or I book one extra wedding to cover the cost likethis.
It's such a no brainer.
but it's just like finding the people who are ready to change.
(47:02):
I think that's an interesting thing because in the coaching I've done before, we alwayslook at the opportunity cost or the cost of an action.
And the cost of that is not what does it cost me to invest my 1500 bucks a month or athousand bucks a month plus whatever else it's what am I missing out on?
You close $41,000 in month one.
(47:24):
If you go back over 12 months.
over five years.
we don't know if you'd always close that amount, but you can start to stack up and seethat's the real loss.
Now again, every person has different goals, but I think no matter what your goal is, evenif you get one, you're on the pathway.
Yeah, for sure.
And you've learned and then you're gonna have better sales calls, you're gonna have bettertraction wherever you do it.
(47:46):
And it's like, it's only going to make an exponential leap from now into the future.
Yeah, so it's, it's just one of those things.
It's kind of, this is built out of a bit of frustration, same thing, like telling friends,family and everything like that, that this is all they need to do.
Because like I said, the logical brain, it's simple.
(48:06):
But you just need that knowledge.
and you need that help to make it simple for you.
And then once you start, you're like, oh, no, like, come on.
Yeah, because it's just like, it's a slippery slope, because then you just start seeingthe positives everywhere.
Yeah.
You're like, well, if I did this, then I can do this.
And then I can probably charge more for this.
And it's just like the world becomes exponential.
When at the moment, everyone feels pretty scared.
(48:29):
But there's a lot of people in the industry now that are still looking for part time jobs.
Like there's there's so many people that
constantly hit me up like, any weddings you got, like, I'd love to be recommended asflorist.
There's like people hurting.
ah So it'd just be good to get whoever's actually ready to grow to grow together.
I love your heart.
(48:49):
I love your vision because ever since I met you beginning of this year, you havedemonstrated a real genuine desire to lift other people up through your own action and
your own sharing of wins, but also through your challenging your support.
How can I help?
What can I do?
And obviously that's flowing out through your work, not only with your weddingphotography, but here at.
(49:11):
pod.
Yeah, for sure.
well as through the upcoming cohort, like your nature is to give and I love that you founda way to give to those that actually want to receive.
The hard part, I went through my baptism and fire like all those years ago, I'm talkinglike 22 years ago when I first launched.
And for so long, I wanted more for people than they wanted themselves and I burnt out.
(49:33):
Because I'm like, why?
Exactly.
Life could be so much different, so much better.
You know, um let's finish on this.
Fast forward, should say rewind rewind two years ago.
Toga previous to this age, Toga Steve.
(49:56):
Toga previous to making this decision.
Yep.
Previous to Margo being on board.
um What piece of advice would you give him?
I was going to say trust yourself, but I don't think I could have trusted myself becauselike I had so many, you know, just back and forth in my own head.
(50:17):
take the leap.
Like, it's like, I don't know, is it like trust?
I don't want to be woo, but like, is it trust the universe?
It's just like putting trust.
And like, just committing, I think committing actually, is like, just commit, because Ihad so many things like half in half out.
And just look for leadership.
(50:40):
As much as you think everyone thinks they're like the kind of the center of their story,the more that I get
advice from other people that know better than me.
It's old thing, like you realize how much you don't know, but then it just elevates youand then you find this trickle down effect that then you can kind of share that
information with someone else as well.
So even take ego out of it, look to other people and take advice if people are willing togive you advice.
(51:07):
And I think yeah, just just commit to what you want to do.
Yeah.
that first $4,500 that you committed.
Was that worth it?
just a little bit.
uh it's like, know, 100 times return on that.
It's, I'd say it'd be worth that for sure.
I'm gonna call you a mozie from now on.
Mate, well done.
(51:28):
We salute you.
It's not easy to succeed in business, but it is simple with the right strategy, with theright mindset.
And I salute you because you are paving the way for a lot of people.
I'm sure a lot of people watching this today will go away inspired and will have a renewedsense of what's possible for them.
So mate, salute you, well done.
(51:48):
Anything else you wanna say before we finish off?
No, I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, stay tuned for more talks with experts um and finding how much I don't know aboutbranding and everything like that.
But yeah, I just want to bring as many people who are actual experts in their field.
that are not within the wedding industry, because I feel like there's enough experts inthe wedding industry.
(52:12):
I wanna bring people that have expertise outside of that.
Fresh eyes.
Exactly.
Yeah, just like, you know, it's a pretty small industry.
If people know, you know, a big guy in that space and they can kind of bring theirinformation towards our wedding industry, then the people who want to succeed will
succeed.
So yeah, I'm just looking forward to that, man.
It's gonna be fun.
Love it.
Awesome.
Thanks, Jay.
Thanks for tuning in to the WEDCO podcast.
(52:34):
If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe, follow and share it with yourfriends.
We'd love to hear your thoughts, so leave a review or connect with us on social media.
New episodes drop every week, so be sure to join us next time for more weddinginspiration, tips and stories.
Until then, happy planning and we'll see you soon.
Welcome to the Wedco podcast, your ultimate guide to the wedding world.
Whether you're a bride, groom or wedding vendor, this is the place to be.
Join us as we dive into real stories, expert advice and behind the scenes insights to helpyou plan the perfect day.
So grab a seat and let's celebrate love, connection and creativity together.
Before we get into this episode, I'd love to ask you a super quick and easy favor.
(00:24):
If you're enjoying the Wedco podcast, please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify orYouTube.
It might seem small, but it makes a huge difference in helping the podcast grow and meansI can keep bringing on amazing vendors to share their insights with you.
Thank you so much for your support.
It truly means the world.
Hello and welcome to the web co podcast.
I'm Steve Togger.
And today we've got Jay back in the studio with us to round two.
(00:44):
um After we finished up recording last week, uh Jay has been twisting my arm to kind ofcome on here and tell my story.
um So begrudgingly, I've come back on.
And yeah, we're just gonna unpack a little bit of the last, I guess, 14 years in thewedding industry for me, how things have changed, and how leaning on experts, I guess, has
(01:07):
changed my whole outlook on honestly on life, not just work in the wedding industry, butlife as a whole.
So thanks for twisting my arm, mate.
The pleasure's all mine.
But I think the reason I wanted to do this is because I think your story is so unique, butalso so relatable to people as well.
You were telling me you've been doing this for 14 years.
(01:28):
Up until two years ago, you had no growth.
You were stuck doing how many weddings a year?
it was always 30 to 35 kind of no matter what I thought I was doing.
It was kind of always at 30 to 35.
It was photo weddings for maybe the first eight years was just photo.
And then from that point, it kind of went to photo video, but it was always kind of stuckat that 30, I guess he is yeah 30 every year.
(01:51):
Yeah.
And you were telling me how two years ago you were kind of like presented with thiscrossing the road.
Yeah, yeah, this turning point where either you had to change how things were working.
You got five kids.
you got a beautiful wife.
Life is expensive.
And the money that you were making, although very good, in terms of the industry and whatyou'd have achieved so far.
(02:15):
um I love that you paint this picture of like, it's do or die.
I've got to find a way to make this work.
Yeah.
or I've got to get another job.
Yep.
Take us back to that moment and help us understand what was going through your mind andwhat was the result of that thought process.
Well, there's nothing like having another baby to uh put your back up against the wall.
(02:40):
um Like as many people know, like we earn a really good income, but we live in Byron Bay.
So the cost of living is super expensive here.
And we've made that decision.
Our kids go to beautiful schools.
We live close to the beach and that's all things that we wouldn't take away.
I would always said I would work harder so that we can stay in this area because we lovewhere we live.
You know, I'm not afraid of doing hard work.
(03:01):
um
but it definitely got to the point where we had four kids at the time.
Margo was on her way and I was looking at my bookings and usually by, I must have beenlooking maybe in October or November and I was like, I've got six weddings booked for next
year.
And like I was thinking, I'm like, cool, like that's, you know, maybe 40 grand that I'vegot coming in for next year.
Whereas typically up until that point, I'd always have 25 weddings.
(03:25):
So like, I'm like, cool, I've got money sitting there.
I'm not stressed.
I know I'm going to book another 10 or 15 throughout that year.
Um, and so it was just like a really rude awakening.
Um, things like they weren't tight.
We still go out and we have food and we have dinners and all that kind of stuff.
But it was the first time where I was like, it was really like a kind of tight in thechest.
(03:47):
Like this is getting real.
Um, which was crazy because everything I had done, even though I hadn't done much in thepast, I'd always had those 30 to 35 weddings.
know, I'd done.
Meta ads back when it was Facebook ads at the very start.
And I remember putting in like 10 bucks or something in like, you'd get a couple of leads.
And then all of a sudden, you know, Instagram's not getting anything.
(04:08):
You're not getting like referrals from venues that you used to.
And just like, it all started to dry up and it was, I think it was already the writing wason the wall with, with oh social media that by that stage, it was pay to play.
And I just hadn't realized that yet.
And everyone's telling me like, you've just got to post, you know, really good content onsocial media and posting all the time and you'll get the bookings.
(04:30):
And I just was like, I was probably getting like two or three leads a month.
And then like, I still like, if I booked one of those, I'd be like stoked.
But it just, it almost, I think a lot of people in the wedding industry will know whenyou're busy with work, your next season is quiet because you were so busy in the moment,
you're not really focusing on the future.
(04:52):
And then you get to the future and it's quiet and then you're like, shit, I need toactually start working hard.
And then your next season is busy again, but it's just not sustainable.
It just feels like it's been 10 years of a roller coaster.
Yeah.
Really.
highs, lows, working in the business versus on the business.
So you got to this point in your life where you're like, oh shit.
Baby number five, Margo, we love you, thanks for the inspiration.
(05:15):
And obviously there was that turning point.
I'm really keen to lean in real quick because you approached this from a rather logical,kind of like analytical point of view, which I love.
Run us through like the emotions because no doubt there was this element of...
I've got to find a way to make this work.
How did you deal with that?
Because I for a lot of people like growing or stepping into or expanding what they'redoing, it's challenging.
(05:40):
There's emotions, there's preconceived ideas and beliefs around what's possible.
Like how did you navigate that point?
Or was it simply that you got to a point where had no choice?
Honestly, it was pretty close to no choice.
It was like, okay.
And honestly, it's like, okay, what other job can I do that gives me the freedom and theincome that I get from weddings?
(06:01):
And I was looking around, I'm like, there's nothing like there really isn't.
I'm not like skilled in, I'm not a builder.
I'm not all these other things.
And so it's like, I've built this this career over the last 10 years.
And there isn't something that I can just go and replace that income with.
And so it really was
is like, even Kashia, like we had four kids at times, she's like, maybe I need to go backto work.
(06:22):
And I'm like, well, that's not an option.
You know, like I know how important it is for Kashia to be able to stay home with the kidsand nurture them because there's going to be a time in our lives when they're all at
school and they don't need us as much and she's going to crush work again.
But at the moment, we'd had those discussions where she's like, it is super important thatI'm with the kids.
And so it was just like a, yeah, like a super emotional time where it's like, you just gotto fucking step up.
(06:47):
um
I didn't know what that meant.
But I was just like, I don't have a choice.
This is it.
Yeah.
So, um, but yeah, it was pretty eye opening to, think you're cruising and then one minuteyou're like, Oh, we're not fucking cruising.
We're not.
Yeah.
It just got real tough real quick.
(07:07):
Yeah.
I reckon there's a whole nother podcast we can do on raising five kids roles andsupporting and like how you do that, because how you guys do it, like, I don't know.
I don't have kids yet.
I look at you guys and I salute you because I'm like five kids running two businesses nowand full-time mom and like all the things that go on with having kids.
think it's incredible.
(07:27):
um
I wanna give a teaser and if it's okay, I know you've told me that you've more thandoubled the number of weddings you do per year on average now, consistently for the last
two years.
You've tripled your income, but you've halved your working hours.
People listening to this, they'll be like, how the fuck is he doing that?
(07:50):
That's not possible.
How's he not doing the editing?
Like all these things, which we'll dive into in a second, because I know your processaround that is incredible.
um
take us through the turning point.
So you knew that pay to play was the game forward.
Obviously there was kind of like this high risk in the sense it was unknown.
How did you navigate that?
What was the next steps?
What was the turning point in terms of launching ads?
(08:12):
Yeah, so that was when I think I just listened to like one of the homose books, it wouldhave been like, you know, how to read the leads or offers, whatever it was.
And he had talked about, instead of doing a course or something like that, he was like,okay, I always go to like an agency or someone who knows what they're doing, I'm going to
get the end result.
And then I'm going to kind of back engineer from that, or I'm going to get them to do thatwith me and along the way teach me what they're doing.
(08:38):
And then it kind of, yeah, just get to that point where I know exactly what they're doingto get to that point.
So yeah, I went and approached, yeah, the meta ads agency and same thing had, I honestlydidn't have confidence in them, didn't have confidence myself and like, didn't have
confidence in any, ads agency.
Like, I feel like all of them are just like, yeah, just throw us this money and we'll getyour jobs.
(09:01):
And like, I feel like.
What they promise is never delivered, honestly.
um And I already knew that in the back of my head, but same thing.
was just like, I don't have a choice and I've just got to do something.
Was that from experience or was that kind of like your perceived projection?
Perceived.
100%.
Definitely like there was no prior experience.
It was just that was what was in my head.
You've heard one story you're like, shit, don't want to do that.
(09:22):
High risk.
Exactly.
Yep.
And so like I said, it really was the, don't have a choice.
I've got to do this.
Um, because if I don't, what do I do?
Like there was no plan B.
And so yeah, at the time, um, just for their services, I think, you know, it was, it waslike half a wedding cost was what they were charging me for their services to set up the
(09:45):
ads and the landing page and everything like that.
And then they wanted me to be able to spend, I think at the time was like 50 bucks per dayon ads, which for me was crazy.
Like I was just.
Yep.
And I was like, no, that's insane.
I can't spend that on ads.
And like up until that point, I'd probably spent like $10 boosting a post or somethinglike that.
(10:06):
Exactly.
And I was like, not like you said you were going to commit to this, just do it.
And so it probably took us about two or three weeks to get the ads.
up, I definitely wasn't happy with the copy that they had created.
I didn't think it was going to work.
But at the same time, I was like, let's just go for it.
(10:27):
And then we launched those.
And I was like, if I can make, you know, one, what was it two deposits from weddings, if Iget two weddings booked in, that'll pay for the ads and for the ads agency.
And then I'm just going to keep doing that, because then there's still money on the backend from actually shooting the wedding.
So like maybe for a wedding, I'm paying
you know, 25 % of the cost of the profit of the wedding, I was gonna pay to these guys inads.
(10:51):
But I was like, that's okay, because it's better doing that than having no work.
And I'd already thought about it at that stage where, I mean, the fashion world too, whereyou have an agent, you pay 20 % to them and they book you jobs.
I was like, why isn't there a wedding agent where I can pay them 20 % and they get mewedding bookings?
So I'd actually already approached people with that and just couldn't find anyone to doit.
(11:12):
And so I was more than happy to do that.
um
And then, yeah, it was the first month we booked like 41 grand's worth of weddings.
Yeah, I'm jealous.
Of Herman Schalzman?
I would have been probably about 1500.
So all off like it was about 3500 using their services as well as the ads.
(11:32):
But I was like, cool.
So let's say you put $3,500 into the ATM.
Adds ATM and you pulled out $41,000.
Tell me about that moment because I'm sure at that point where previously you were likeall agencies suck, this won't work.
I've never seen it work.
All of a sudden you've got now $41,000 worth of bookings.
Tell me about that light bulb moment and what it meant for then your trajectory.
(11:57):
It was how much money can I put into ads?
I remember contacting them and I was like, can we double the ad spend?
And they're like, look, we need to create more ad content and everything like that.
So we didn't actually end up doubling it.
And I was like, they're like, look, it's not worth it with the amount of people you'rereaching and everything like that.
There's no point, which I felt good that they were always protecting me from that.
(12:20):
Cause I would have just dumped money.
At that stage, I was like, I'm going to make 41 grand every single month.
If I double that, that's 80, you know?
And that was just in my head, that's what was gonna happen.
So yeah, was just always all in by that stage.
yeah, it just kind of from that month, it just kept happening.
think it was like maybe 30, it kind of was between 25 and 35,000 in bookings, like since,like honestly since.
(12:46):
And I have been super lazy with creating new content and everything like that.
My lead cost has gone up.
but it's still regular that much every single month.
But you've run the same creative now for.
uh So most agency would say refreshing everything, you three to maybe six.
they were on me.
(13:06):
They were on me for sure.
They're like, dude, what are you doing?
I'm like, that's fine.
Like, I don't care.
Like, because the return was there.
the thing.
It's working.
It's not broken.
It's still working.
Exactly.
And I think as long as it's producing a profit, I think I want to touch on somethingbecause a lot of people when they're going into something new, particularly with money and
investment of ad spend agency, et cetera, a lot of people will have this projection intheir mind.
(13:30):
Well, I want to see at least a 10 times return.
They go to the best case kind of like minimum return.
Whereas I like what you did because your mindset was
I need to make this work as long as I cover my bases, I'm good because I'm generatingincome.
No one wants to work for free.
I get that.
But there is the value in terms of having bookings there.
(13:51):
You're keeping your cashflow running.
And then obviously you got a much better result as well.
Okay, so we've solved problem one, which was not enough interest or leads, enoughbookings.
We're now getting a surplus number of bookings coming through.
m
what was the next problem that you had to solve in kind of like this process?
Because no doubt that would have been a blessing, but also a bit of a curse, right?
(14:13):
Yeah, for sure.
And it's like, up until that point, every wedding I got back when I was busy was like, youalmost didn't want to book it because you knew that was another video you had to edit.
That was another set of photos you had to edit.
So it's like you almost subconsciously were, yeah, just stifling your growth because youcouldn't take on more work.
And I remember at the time, like for earlier like five years, I was working with Joel andI was pretty much...
(14:40):
teaching him like he kind of came in from us was searching with us never had a businessand we kind of helped him grow his business.
And he actually hired a video editor before us.
And it was after I gave him the advice, why don't you have a video editor for but I justhadn't taken it myself.
And so then he's doing it and he's like, what are you doing?
Get a video editor.
And so yeah, I was chatting to Joel and I was just like, okay, cool.
(15:00):
I've just got to do this.
And from that point kind of went down that route.
He actually helped me train up this editor because he'd done it before and he knew howwhat he was doing.
And so, yeah, we kind of went through and trained up this editor.
And then all of a sudden, you know, for videos, I was doing a ceremony and a speeches editand I just have to do the highlight.
And then it would get to the point where like, now they can do the culling.
(15:22):
Now they can do the highlight.
And all of a sudden that roadblock of, I could only ever do 30, 35 weddings.
All of a sudden that was gone because I know like now they can probably do 40 a year iscomfy.
I don't want them to be rushing.
I want really quality work.
And so I'd prefer to give them about a week and a half to get through a full wedding,which realistically I could probably do in three days, but I just wanted them to have the
(15:49):
time.
Two things that come from that, because I'm sure people listening to this will be going,okay, well, number one, you're letting go of your art.
Creators are artists, even though they have a unique style and how they shoot is probablylike continuous over time.
It is an art form in terms of capturing the day and editing and putting that sort ofspecial touches.
Number one, how did you navigate that sense of branding?
(16:12):
Number two, hiring staff, it's into profit.
How did you navigate that?
Well, I guess having the surplus from the ads and the bookings, I still have to pay for afull computer setup for these guys.
And so there was still $5,000 in expenses to set up, like the computer setup, you'regetting hard drives, you're everything you need.
um But then it was, as far as the art side of things, I was always editing a weddingmyself and then also giving them the wedding and being like, cool, I want to see what you
(16:43):
put together with this footage.
um I'd finish up at a wedding.
And I'd be straight on my phone and I'd be making notes.
Okay, this happened, this happened, this happened.
This is really important.
Dad did this.
And I just make voice notes that I'd send to the editor, ah you know, the next day so thatthey can kind of get an idea of what that wedding was like.
And then I go
I was like, that's so important because our wedding, got married two years ago, amazingphotographers, amazing videographer there on the day, the editors, it was a team, it
(17:11):
wasn't them.
They missed so much of what was special on the first edit run that we had to go throughand like almost minute by minute, hey, what about this?
And what about that?
I think that tip right there, like from a user point of view had our team who was incharge of that, had that sort of like in-house SOP.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
(17:32):
kind of like communicate that across to the editors, that would have been a game changerfor us because in the end, we got a product that we were pretty happy with.
But I feel like there's so much gold in the process of how you have done this to maintaina certain level of quality.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's because like, you can't blame the editor because they're just looking for prettyshots.
Totally.
They're like, this looks pretty.
(17:52):
I've got no idea what the day was like.
So I'm just going to choose the prettiest shots and it's going to look beautiful.
to the point of the music choice for us.
Lana Del Rey.
No offense.
Do not like that music.
It was so mopey and dreary and it didn't capture the essence.
So I think that's really cool to know because I think it shows that it is possible the waythat you've done this and no doubt put a lot of time and extra in and on top of the normal
(18:16):
editing you would have done.
It's like pay a lot more time upfront.
to save time on the backend.
I think it's really cool to kind of like communicate that to people who are listeningbecause it gives them a process to understand, I can still maintain a level of quality and
control without sacrificing my unique touch.
Yeah, and even like as simple as photographers and videographers might get funny aboutthis where like I'll have brides and grooms like, hey, can we send you a Pinterest board?
(18:41):
Can we send you through videos we like?
I'm like, of course, like why my goal is to take the photos that you want and take thevideos you want.
Why would I not want to see what you love?
know, and so that'll like, we'll send out a questionnaire of like, what's important, youknow, for your wedding film.
you know, is this going to be high energy?
Is it going to be about the party?
Is it going to be all about the portraits?
(19:01):
And we can kind of get an idea of what they like and then even get ideas from they'll sendus past videos of ours that they love, or they'll send even other brands of videos they
love.
We can kind of get a really good understanding of what they're looking for with the edit.
And because you can edit a wedding five different ways, like just it can be super slow mo,it can be super fast and know, punchy, but you kind of need to know what they're looking
(19:21):
for to be able to deliver to.
And um yeah, so it's just I think the more
pre-production you can do before the wedding, the better it is and the more happy becauseall we want is a couple to be super happy.
We don't want revision requests.
know, like we want them to get it and be like, this is the best.
And then it just wins for everyone.
(19:41):
Yeah.
So it's just the more effort you can put in ahead of time, the better for sure.
And so coming back to then how did you navigate this kind of extra costs to scalingbecause your goal was to scale so you can work half time, you're still tripling your
income.
How did you navigate that?
Because I think a lot of people listening this might not really understand how affordableit is to do this in a way that actually produces a great output, but also helps you scale.
(20:07):
Well, like if you go say over to the States, there's like all these big, you know, weddingwebsites where you can get your videos edited and they're pretty much say about a thousand
bucks a wedding is what you would get, but you wouldn't necessarily get the same editorevery time.
You just kind of get a random editor that will say, think, get your footage.
They're probably not going to pay attention to any notes that you send them.
And you're just going to pay a thousand bucks.
(20:28):
It's going to be pretty edit.
Whereas like for this, you know, all up, if you say you averaged out the cost of
the full setup across say two years or something like that.
All up, you're paying like 50 bucks per week for that over the course of two years.
And then each wedding might cost us $300 to get edited.
(20:50):
And same thing, it's completely finished.
We're getting it and it's 80 % done.
And then I'm like, cool, I wanna change this, this, this color, not so much on that one.
Or what about this speech?
There was a better part that we like from this speech.
So we're still kind of quality controlling.
But it feels like for a wedding videos in particular, the biggest part of your time isactually looking through all the footage, creating the story.
(21:13):
That's the hard part where you've just got to be so focused and you can't have any othernoise in your life at all.
And that's the really hard part.
And that's when it doesn't take too long, but just to get in that mindset to sit down andactually start, it's really hard, especially like...
Especially like with most people's mindsets these days where they've got like theirattention span is this.
(21:37):
Okay, cool.
I'm to sit in front of a computer for four hours and I'm not going to listen to podcastsor music or anything.
I'm just going to look at this.
It's tough.
And so it's just a really good starting point for us.
Like 80 % done.
I'm like, this is the best because then I'm just looking at, what sound effects can we addhere?
What kind of color can we do here?
Can we add anything extra to it?
Whereas usually by 80 % when I was doing it myself, I'm like, it's done.
(21:58):
You know, like I'm so over it by that stage that you're like good enough.
whereas I'm getting it when it's good enough to add that extra bit on top of
So it almost sounds like you're improving the quality of the product overall and theexperience for the client.
hands down, like without a doubt.
Like I get videos back from the editors.
I'm like, I could never done that shit.
I love this perspective because I'm a bit of a perfectionist in my work, always have beenacross my life in pretty much every single domain.
(22:25):
And I think people who are by nature artists, they're creative, they like to have a highlevel of kind of control over the process.
But I love this kind of switch on perspective around outsourcing some of that process, atleast 80 % of it, so that you can actually free up your time and improve the overall
quality of output that you actually put into the market.
(22:47):
Well, I talked to them and like Hollywood is a person who shoots a film, the one whodirects it, the one who edits it, the one that does the music, you know, like it's like
every other industry, this would never be one person.
Like, why are we trying to be the people who film it?
There's people that just do color.
There's people that just do music that just do, you know, the filming.
Like, why would you not hire the best people in every spot?
(23:09):
And I don't see that is seen as a detriment in our industry, but that just doesn't makesense to me.
Well, it's interesting because that perspective almost takes you out of a traditionalcreative artist, because your perspective there is, I don't have all the answers.
Yeah.
(23:29):
But other people do and they're probably better at doing those things than I am.
So what I learned from them, yeah.
sure.
Tell me this as well, in terms of SOPs uh systems in place, it all sounds verycomplicated.
From like the outside looking at it sounds complicated in terms of lots of little movingparts.
Is that hard for another creator to actually create an input into their business?
(23:52):
Or like, how would you take someone through that process in terms of developing thoseSOPs?
loom is your best friend.
Man, the amount of times that I will just, I'll just do it myself.
Like you just do that in the rest of your life.
You're like, I'm not going to try and teach you, I'll just do it myself.
And so now for each stage, I've just created little loom videos of I open up DaVinci andthis is how I import the footage.
(24:16):
And I just like do a loom and I'm talking as I'm doing it.
This is what I'm doing right now.
Cool.
Done.
SOP number one done.
And even like with
loom, they've got you know, AI, they'll create an SOP for you with timestamps and all thatkind of thing.
Like it's so simple these days.
And I'll just run through every single piece.
The biggest part was probably with the video editing.
(24:37):
But then also Hazel does, Hazel does all my photos.
She does all my slideshows.
She does all my admin like Hazel is a godsend.
uh And it just like I just had to every single little piece.
And even if you think it's tiny, just record it and just talk to them.
and just be like, this is what I'm doing.
And this is what I need you to do every time.
And then if it comes back and you haven't done this, I need you to refer to this becausethis is what I need you to do every time.
(25:01):
And so just makes it really clear and it's not abstract what you want, you know, youroutsource people to do.
It's, it just keeps really like everything really clear for both parties.
And then also, if they don't understand, awesome, let's record like, what don't youunderstand?
And let me record it again.
And now do you understand it?
And like we used to do it where
(25:22):
I would just do an SOP and just give it to them and be like, I want you to do this with noprior knowledge whatsoever.
And if they can do that from that SOP, you've won.
And if they can't, then you need to refine it a little bit.
So it definitely is just like testing, but you just get better and better at doing it andgetting out of the mindset of, I'll just do it because you can do it in two minutes.
(25:43):
It might take you 10 minutes to record, but then you're never doing that two minutes everagain.
So yeah, that's, that was definitely a big, you know, mind shift like change as well.
What would you say the top three pivots you've made?
It sounds like ads number one.
SOPs outsourcing number two.
Is there anything else that you did that you found really helped you to step out of thatkind of like, I'm doing everything role to kind of like almost like I'm driving forward
(26:10):
and growing an actual business.
They were definitely the main ones.
There's still obviously there's parts of the business that I still struggle with and Ineed to improve in.
But as far as like it felt like as soon as the leads were coming in, obviously then that'swhen we spoke and I was like, in another world, I was like, you're getting, know,
(26:33):
pretty much 30, 35 grams worth of bookings every single month, I'd be like, like, that'sjust a completely other world in the past.
But then you get to that point and you're like, well, I'm booking one in every seven oreight.
What does that look like if it's one in every, you know, four or five or five or six?
And so that's when we started talking and it was like really kind of trying to dial downon those little one percenters.
which add up over time and just like, cool, well, I can definitely have a betterfollow-up.
(26:57):
And I started hiring copywriters to redo my replies and like, you know, all my templatesfor how I reply to bids.
And so I had like three different people working on templates.
So how can I make that 1 % better across every stage?
And then once we actually get them on a call, well, I suck at phone calls because I neverasked for the sale, but like, how can I improve that?
And that was almost my, I couldn't be bothered putting time and effort into making moreads, which I knew I should be doing.
(27:22):
But I was like, if I'm not doing that, but I'm improving this part, then that negates thefact that I need to change this part.
Yeah, I think that's a really wise perspective because having been in coaching businessworld now for 20 years, a lot of people shoot for perfect when you don't need it to be
perfect for it to work really freaking well.
Yeah.
(27:42):
Like even your ads case in point, you know, they've been running for a year and a halfnow.
Traditionally, would say let's refresh those creatives.
But you know what, one of my best performing ads I ever had, I didn't touch for two years.
And it brought a shit ton of money.
Yeah, because it works.
The thing I like
on that is you can still have something that's not working as well as when you firstlaunched, i.e.
(28:03):
now your cost per lead or cost per close is double.
But we can go and improve one other metric, which is your close rate, your follow-up rate,or how you're nurturing those leads into that final decision and you can still get a
better outcome.
So I like that because I think if I look back from the beginning of your story, thingsweren't perfect, you took action.
(28:23):
You got a really great result.
you took action.
Yeah, you kind of like kicked the problem can down the road not getting caught up in theweeds of it needs to be perfect today.
Yeah, definitely with editing with ads with follow up clunky on sales.
I when we first met, I was like talking through your sales process and you're like, I siton a zoom and I smile and I'm, know, like, you know, have a good report and good chat.
(28:44):
I'm like, you asked for the sale.
Yeah, what's next?
Like where to?
So again, it's like I make a joke of that.
But there's always something we can do better.
It just doesn't need to be perfect to actually work.
because then like if it's perfect, you just stop and focus on that and you don't goanywhere because you can always like it's diminishing returns trying to get to perfect
where there's other things that you can kind of get way better returns.
(29:07):
It's like another like Hormozzi thing is like, if it's not going to make you know, a 10 %difference in your business, like why even bother doing it?
You know, like there's there is a cost to changing things as well.
And like starting to understand that and, and like, this needs to change this needs tochange.
does it or you're just trying to be busy as well.
So it's kind of there, it is a constant thing where you have to continually like checkyourself.
(29:31):
And like, I trying to improve things or is this just because I need something to do rightnow?
So yeah, it's a tricky one that you just have to kind of keep refining over time.
Would you consider yourself a perfectionist?
I would, I'm not, but I get frustrated that I'm not.
(29:52):
Okay.
Yeah.
So I, I've definitely always been really good in my life.
90 % of being awesome to get the other 10 % I've always struggled.
Um, I get to a lot, like a 90 % which in the, in the course of my life has led me inreally good directions, but I get really frustrated.
even like building and stuff like that.
I'm like, that's great.
(30:12):
And then like, there'll be the little 10 % at the end that I stuff up.
So yeah, I don't think I am a perfectionist, which has helped me in my life.
I think if I was more when I speak to other people that are editing their photos, andthey're like this one or this one, I'm like, dude, there's no difference.
There's no like the couple, they're not gonna know this is a beautiful photo, this one andthis one.
(30:34):
And they've just spent like an extra half an hour doing this.
And so there is a little bit of letting go and knowing that like what you're doing isgreat.
And I think people in this in the creative field, they aren't happy with what they'reproducing, it could always be better, which always makes you work better over time.
But there also has to be a point where you're just like, what I do is great and appreciatewhat you do.
(30:59):
See, I think that's actually served you well.
Because I think a lot of people, myself included, waste a lot of time and energy trying toperfect that last 10%, 20%, whatever it might be.
Yeah.
And I don't think that's about diminishing the quality of the output.
think like you said, there's this level of I want it to be as good as I can do, whichyou've said admittedly is only 90%.
(31:20):
Yep.
Typically across time.
Yeah.
But I think not getting caught up in that final 10 % details probably enabled you tooutsource and recognize, hey, I'm not the best.
I need help.
Yeah.
And that's probably served you really well because again, you don't have success likeyou've had without getting help and realizing that a man is not a solo island.
Like he needs support.
(31:41):
He needs coaching.
He needs strategies.
He needs help to actually get him to where he wants to go.
Yeah.
And it's like not also falling into the pitfalls.
I look at other brands that they charge double what I do.
They are artists, but I know that they've got 10 weddings they need to edit and they sitthere every hour of every day editing videos.
And I'm like, would I want that life?
(32:03):
Like, okay, so I'll shoot double the amount of weddings that they shoot.
So we make the same income, but then I'm not sitting there every day doing the editing.
And so it's like, would I prefer to shoot 20 more weddings and have those days?
or be sitting there Monday to Friday every single week doing that.
And it's a super easy decision for me.
Like it's not even a question.
(32:23):
And so I think that that helps as well, like getting clear on, am I this artist, like Isaid, spending half an hour on this photo to finish it up?
Or do I know what I produce?
Like, dude, couples love what we give them.
And like the couples that we work with, ah they're tradies, they own small businesses,they're not
(32:45):
you know, they're not models, they're they're just like down to earth people.
And the photos and the videos that we give them are going to be the best photos and videosthey ever have themselves like their whole life.
And so it's just like even that is a really nice feeling to be able to give to people.
And so then like when I deliver that and they're stoked, it's, just kind of lifts up likewhat we're doing is good enough.
(33:09):
And I mean, I don't want to be just good enough, but it like they love it.
So it's just like
working out where you sit in that spectrum, I think.
Tell me now what's life like that you've created a really profitable business, not onlyfrom income, but a time-based point of view.
What are you now doing with your free time that you freed up as a result of this?
(33:30):
Well, just start another business and just have no free time.
um Actually, like when you know, the last couple years has been really nice with you know,we've had our fifth kid, um three of them are in school now.
So like, it's just been a lot of time with the family.
um Finally, not checking out bank account if we can afford that a side bowl, you know,like just not having to worry about that.
(33:56):
We know there's money there.
Everything was good.
Um, it still is, we're just in the growth stage of like the studio at the moment.
So it's just, and it's just shifting mindsets again, where pre all this, my wife was, hada podcast.
We're recording it for, you know, every week she would record at home.
(34:17):
We'd have Brecky with the six of us at the time.
And then we'd kick the kids outside like, Oh, we need to set this up and everything.
And, you know, and like, was because we didn't want to pay for a studio for her to recordit.
And so we did that for two years and it's like, it was absolute hell, it sucked.
And so it got to the point where we were doing well enough with the weddings and I hadenough free time.
I was like, why don't we look at getting a space?
(34:37):
And I was like, and I also knew that a space like this, like a podcast studio would doreally well in Byron because I knew friends were going to the Gold Coast to record and I
knew there was something there.
But it just gave me time to be able to, to build this essentially.
So without that as the base.
(34:57):
this also was never an opportunity.
So it just gave me a bigger chance to be able to continue to build and then yeah, evenlike hire more staff members for the weddings to make sure that's even running better and
tighter.
So because like obviously more time is going to this, but I need to make sure that thewedding side of thing is running really smoothly as well because that essentially is what
(35:18):
pays for our lifestyle and our life and growth.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And so what's the vision now?
Like, where are you taking things?
What do you want to do with this podcast?
Yep.
With the studio, obviously.
Yep.
Well, it's like, we wanted a space.
felt like I had, I try to help friends.
(35:39):
Like that's been, that's almost a trap too.
I've had people in the past where like, all I want to do is help people.
And you want to help people that don't want help.
And like the amount of times, like I'll just pour everything into people like this, yougot to do this, this, this, this, this.
And like, here's a proof this works.
And then they just don't take your advice and it crushes you.
(35:59):
Like it sucks.
It's like, because all you want, you just want to see your friends and your family doreally well.
And when they don't take advice that is so tangible and so real to you, it's, justfrustrating.
And so like, we kind of wanted to build out, I'm like still like a part of like Instagramgroups with like videographers and stuff.
(36:21):
And, and like I just yesterday, they're like, Oh, how's everyone going with backlog?
And everyone's like, I'm dead 10 deep.
You
everyone's just like falling apart.
And it's hard not to laugh because I've offered these guys before.
like, we can edit your videos for you if you want, or like we can step you through theexact way of how we hired our staff.
It's not a big cost when weddings are a big ticket item.
(36:45):
People spend money on weddings.
okay, you take profit from one or two weddings and set this whole thing up.
And then for the rest of the year,
cool, you got to put in say, three months of hard work to train this person.
But then you're going to be doing this for another 10 years.
You're good.
um So I just wanted to kind of find more people that were ready to hear the advice that Ihad.
(37:09):
And also just to share in the wedding industry.
And I actually, like I feel like a lot of other industries, there's a lot of coaches thatare like, I'm the best.
Listen to everything I say.
And so I've been trying like really hard to be like, I am 100 % middle of the road,wedding photo and video.
(37:30):
I'm not the artist.
I don't shoot luxury weddings.
There's, there's nothing special about what I like, what I am or what I do.
And it's like more so the people that I've had around me that have helped me elevate towhere I am.
And it's, I don't want to be a millionaire.
I want to be able to have time with my five kids and I want to be able to pursue otherbusinesses because I really love business.
(37:51):
And I want like the time and space, but still have the income to come in to support that.
And I think there's, like you said, in last week's episode was people aren't shootingweddings or in the wedding industry to make a killing.
They love the passion of it.
And I think that's where everyone is.
But if you can do that and do that well and create a lifestyle around it, that's kind ofwhere I want to be able to help more people with.
(38:14):
It's, um I don't know, it's just.
It just feels so simple to me after the help and the advice that I've got that that's whylike, I want to bring you on.
I want to bring Shani on.
Like I want to have all these experts to come on to just make it like a no brainer.
Like you can do this.
You just probably can't do it alone.
(38:34):
Yeah.
So that's the goal at the moment.
hindsight is beautiful.
I said is also kind of like very clear and simple.
Yeah, should have bought Yes, 1000.
Bitcoin.
Yeah.
15 years ago.
What do you think it takes for someone to go from?
I can't do this.
(38:56):
To I want to grow my business.
What's the key shift there beyond having a baby?
Beyond obviously putting yourself
into a corner.
mean, pain is a wonderful motivator.
Yeah, the best motivator.
What do you think it takes for someone to really make that pivot shift in their mind?
Because I know a lot of people that feels like letting go of their baby, of theircreation, etc.
(39:20):
Like, what is the shift knowing that not everybody wants to make that shift, but for thosepeople who do want to make that shift and do want to grow their business?
Yep.
think that's a tough one.
Because I know everyone that starts their business, you've got the most motivation, thefirst year, two, three, you've got all this motivation, and you're gonna conquer the
world, and you're gonna be amazing.
(39:40):
And you're gonna go to Europe and shoot European weddings all the time.
And that just that motivation happens.
But then after that two or three years, it's just kind of like, you're just coasting, youknow, and that's when it actually is when you're just earning enough.
And you're like, you know, they talk like
being comfortable is death.
You know, it's like, as soon as you get to that comfortable point, why would you changeanything?
(40:04):
And I can only speak from experience, like it was pain, like that's the only thing thatchanged it for me.
I don't have a special story where all of a sudden, I'm like this super intellect thatjust knew business.
It was pain for me.
And I really think within our industry, it'll be people, like I said, they've
they're too deep in the backlog.
They booked weddings and now they've got 15 weddings they need to edit.
(40:27):
They're not gonna get them done by Christmas.
And all of a sudden they're gonna be stressing because they're gonna get hounded by bridesand grooms because they want their videos before Christmas.
And now 2026 and 2027 are gonna be dead because they were just focused on this.
And so...
For me, the proof in that was like, I didn't change until I had to.
I hope people are smart enough that they would beforehand.
(40:52):
But then also I didn't really have someone to guide me like what I'm trying to be to otherpeople.
I definitely didn't have that.
And I don't know if I would have taken the advice at the time, but if I had a had.
almost that proof and someone to like hold your hand along the way.
(41:15):
I think that would have helped a lot.
And yeah, like I said, mainly with the proof of it.
But also like there wasn't shady because there's so many people that want to help you andlike you're like, you don't care.
Like I'm just a number.
don't give a fuck.
You know, there's so many shady people in that industry that I think it's just havingsomeone approachable.
(41:35):
But then also
what's worked for me in the past is having like, actually, that was a game changer,having, um, going into like the men's group that I skipped over that before, but even that
and having accountability to other people, this is what I said I'm going to do this week.
And knowing that like your next call was coming up in a couple of days and you're like,I've got to get this shit done.
(41:58):
You know, like that was really good for me in changing like my integrity, both to thegroup and to myself.
And like, started actually doing what I said I was going to do.
And so that's like a big thing that I would love to create is people doing shit togetherand lifting each other up and holding each other accountable.
(42:18):
Because I still know like, okay, I need to create the ads 100 % I do need to that'ssomething I can do.
It would take me a day and it's done.
I need to do branding.
I need to like I need to raise prices, but I'm too scared to do it.
So it's like, need like that people around me so that we can all grow together as well.
(42:40):
Well, I think that's what I'm excited about with this cohort that we're launching becausebeyond the pain of having a fifth kid and the joy, know, beyond that element of like, I
need to change, otherwise nothing's going to change is having a simple, actionable planthat you're held accountable on.
(43:02):
but is easy because when you've got all these ideas and all these possibilities and youdon't know where to start and what comes next and you're kicking that can it's kind like
sometimes it feels like a bowling ball, know, just, you know, left and right.
And you don't really feel like you're getting that direction.
I think having a uh finite eight week sprint, 12 week sprint that you can set sometangible goals and have a process and a pathway to follow.
(43:26):
Phase one, I do this.
Did I do it?
Yes.
Tick.
Good.
What was good?
Okay.
Let's improve that.
Next step.
next step within a supportive environment.
think it only improves, said only it drastically improves your chances of succeeding.
And we all have shit days.
We all have shit days.
And I think on those days to be able to lean into be vulnerable, say, Hey, I'm strugglingwith this, or you're looking at other people's wins.
(43:51):
Collectively, we rise as a group.
Yep.
And even like not having a set thing that has to be done because there might be people,they're crushing branding, but I don't advertise or I don't do this, like not even having
a set thing over that amount of time.
And what I, a pet peeve of me is like you go to a coach and they're kind of like up hereand everyone else is below here and they're telling you to do all this stuff, but then you
(44:16):
don't actually see if they're doing that.
And it's all like kind of smoke and mirrors to see
they're up on this pedestal and you're trying to get to them.
Whereas I like the fact, like I said, I really want to work on branding.
And so from January, I'm going to like, we're going to get the branding person in.
And also I'm going to take that leap where I am raising prices and I'm not coming backdown.
(44:36):
And this is where we're going to do.
We're going to double or triple our leads so that I'm comfortable with that.
But that's going to be scary as hell for me, you But I think the value in people seeingyou do that over the next eight weeks, there's value to be had because
It's one thing to tell people like, just scared, just do it anyway.
But like, if you're actually acting as like, and you're actually doing that at the sametime, they can't make an excuse to like, well, you know, I can't do that because like I'm
(45:03):
doing it.
And there's risk for me there, you know?
So I think it's going to be really nice to be able to have people all lift up to eachother together, hold each other accountable.
You said you were going to do the ads last week.
Why haven't you done them?
You said you were gonna call that sales call last week.
Why didn't you?
We wanna see it.
Everyone wants to see it.
We wanna see how crap you were.
know, because you're only gonna get better.
It's true.
And everyone, it's like the value in a community, there might be one person that just hasthis small little bit of knowledge and one person needs it.
(45:33):
But then they said it's that person and it just spreads around everyone.
It's not so much all in the experts.
It's gonna be little people that they don't even know the knowledge they've got.
And then that just gets filtered down.
So I don't know, I've always been the amount of like photography groups and coachings andeverything I've been in the past.
And the best ones I've ever been to have been communities where like sometimes I wouldn'teven rock up to the like, you know, the coach talking, it'd be more so just being a part
(45:58):
of the group and everyone like being there together.
And I just that was the part I loved.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mate, that's very exciting.
I'm almost thinking what we should look at doing is templating a lot of this for them, butalso maybe, I don't know, I imagine we just do plug and play, take this landing page,
template it in.
Exactly.
Yeah, for sure.
(46:19):
Just make it like easy because like otherwise, yeah, it's you can go to courses and thenyou look at it you're like, too hard, you know.
It's going to take me five hours by the time I switch on my computer three hours.
uh
So I think it is just making it as easy as possible for people.
And then like the proof is there as soon as it starts working, everyone's like, they'regonna have the same feeling as me.
(46:39):
Why didn't I do this 10 years ago?
Because now I did this and it cost me like a wedding, like a wedding worth of profit to dothis.
And now I'm going to book I know I'm either gonna outsource and I'm going to book 20 morebecause I don't have to worry about the editing.
Yeah, all my prices are going to go up or I book one extra wedding to cover the cost likethis.
It's such a no brainer.
but it's just like finding the people who are ready to change.
(47:02):
I think that's an interesting thing because in the coaching I've done before, we alwayslook at the opportunity cost or the cost of an action.
And the cost of that is not what does it cost me to invest my 1500 bucks a month or athousand bucks a month plus whatever else it's what am I missing out on?
You close $41,000 in month one.
(47:24):
If you go back over 12 months.
over five years.
we don't know if you'd always close that amount, but you can start to stack up and seethat's the real loss.
Now again, every person has different goals, but I think no matter what your goal is, evenif you get one, you're on the pathway.
Yeah, for sure.
And you've learned and then you're gonna have better sales calls, you're gonna have bettertraction wherever you do it.
(47:46):
And it's like, it's only going to make an exponential leap from now into the future.
Yeah, so it's, it's just one of those things.
It's kind of, this is built out of a bit of frustration, same thing, like telling friends,family and everything like that, that this is all they need to do.
Because like I said, the logical brain, it's simple.
(48:06):
But you just need that knowledge.
and you need that help to make it simple for you.
And then once you start, you're like, oh, no, like, come on.
Yeah, because it's just like, it's a slippery slope, because then you just start seeingthe positives everywhere.
Yeah.
You're like, well, if I did this, then I can do this.
And then I can probably charge more for this.
And it's just like the world becomes exponential.
When at the moment, everyone feels pretty scared.
(48:29):
But there's a lot of people in the industry now that are still looking for part time jobs.
Like there's there's so many people that
constantly hit me up like, any weddings you got, like, I'd love to be recommended asflorist.
There's like people hurting.
ah So it'd just be good to get whoever's actually ready to grow to grow together.
I love your heart.
(48:49):
I love your vision because ever since I met you beginning of this year, you havedemonstrated a real genuine desire to lift other people up through your own action and
your own sharing of wins, but also through your challenging your support.
How can I help?
What can I do?
And obviously that's flowing out through your work, not only with your weddingphotography, but here at.
(49:11):
pod.
Yeah, for sure.
well as through the upcoming cohort, like your nature is to give and I love that you founda way to give to those that actually want to receive.
The hard part, I went through my baptism and fire like all those years ago, I'm talkinglike 22 years ago when I first launched.
And for so long, I wanted more for people than they wanted themselves and I burnt out.
(49:33):
Because I'm like, why?
Exactly.
Life could be so much different, so much better.
You know, um let's finish on this.
Fast forward, should say rewind rewind two years ago.
Toga previous to this age, Toga Steve.
(49:56):
Toga previous to making this decision.
Yep.
Previous to Margo being on board.
um What piece of advice would you give him?
I was going to say trust yourself, but I don't think I could have trusted myself becauselike I had so many, you know, just back and forth in my own head.
(50:17):
take the leap.
Like, it's like, I don't know, is it like trust?
I don't want to be woo, but like, is it trust the universe?
It's just like putting trust.
And like, just committing, I think committing actually, is like, just commit, because Ihad so many things like half in half out.
And just look for leadership.
(50:40):
As much as you think everyone thinks they're like the kind of the center of their story,the more that I get
advice from other people that know better than me.
It's old thing, like you realize how much you don't know, but then it just elevates youand then you find this trickle down effect that then you can kind of share that
information with someone else as well.
So even take ego out of it, look to other people and take advice if people are willing togive you advice.
(51:07):
And I think yeah, just just commit to what you want to do.
Yeah.
that first $4,500 that you committed.
Was that worth it?
just a little bit.
uh it's like, know, 100 times return on that.
It's, I'd say it'd be worth that for sure.
I'm gonna call you a mozie from now on.
Mate, well done.
(51:28):
We salute you.
It's not easy to succeed in business, but it is simple with the right strategy, with theright mindset.
And I salute you because you are paving the way for a lot of people.
I'm sure a lot of people watching this today will go away inspired and will have a renewedsense of what's possible for them.
So mate, salute you, well done.
(51:48):
Anything else you wanna say before we finish off?
No, I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, stay tuned for more talks with experts um and finding how much I don't know aboutbranding and everything like that.
But yeah, I just want to bring as many people who are actual experts in their field.
that are not within the wedding industry, because I feel like there's enough experts inthe wedding industry.
(52:12):
I wanna bring people that have expertise outside of that.
Fresh eyes.
Exactly.
Yeah, just like, you know, it's a pretty small industry.
If people know, you know, a big guy in that space and they can kind of bring theirinformation towards our wedding industry, then the people who want to succeed will
succeed.
So yeah, I'm just looking forward to that, man.
It's gonna be fun.
Love it.
Awesome.
Thanks, Jay.
Thanks for tuning in to the WEDCO podcast.
(52:34):
If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe, follow and share it with yourfriends.
We'd love to hear your thoughts, so leave a review or connect with us on social media.
New episodes drop every week, so be sure to join us next time for more weddinginspiration, tips and stories.
Until then, happy planning and we'll see you soon.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!