April 22, 2025 • 56 mins
Welcome to Episode 70 of the Wed.Co Podcast. Today, Toga sit’s down with Ben Journee an Auckland Based Wedding Videographer, and the host of the Make Better Wedding Films Podcast
In this episode Toga and Ben discuss the importance of video in capturing wedding memories, and the evolving expectations of couples. They discuss the hybrid approach of combining video and photography, the challenges of shooting solo, and the strategies for effectively communicating value to clients.
Ben shares insights on work-life balance, the realities of traveling for work, and offers tips for couples on choosing the right videographer. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the nuances of wedding videography, emphasizing the importance of capturing meaningful moments and words during weddings.
They discuss the evolving landscape of videography, the role of content creation, and the impact of instant content delivery on couples' experiences. The conversation also touches on the significance of podcasting as a tool for connection and education within the industry, as well as innovations in editing and the value of in-person workshops for skill development.
Takeaways
- Couples often value video more after the wedding than before.
- The 'no regrets' approach allows couples to upgrade their packages post-wedding.
- Ben uses AI tools to streamline the process of selecting stills from videos.
- He aims to capture both fun and sentimental moments in his films.
- Shooting solo has its benefits, including reduced stress and better control.
- Transparency with clients about services leads to higher satisfaction.
- The wedding videography market in New Zealand is competitive and niche.
- Ben's 'loss leader' strategy helps attract clients while increasing overall value. Capturing wedding vows and speeches is crucial for lasting memories.
- Couples often lack understanding of the differences in videography services.
- Content creation can enhance the value of videography packages.
- Instant content delivery allows couples to relive memories quickly.
- Podcasting serves as a valuable platform for industry connection and education.
- The education market for videography is saturated, requiring unique offerings.
- Sharing personal experiences in education can alleviate imposter syndrome.
- In-person workshops provide hands-on learning opportunities.
- Engagement and collaboration among peers enhance the learning experience.
- Innovations in editing technology can streamline the production process.
Your support enables us to bring more enriching conversations and insights to both engaged couples and wedding professionals.
Stay connected with us on Instagram at @wed.copodcast and watch all your favorite wedding professionals on our YouTube channel @wed.copodcast.
Catch our episodes on major podcast platforms like Apple, Spotify, and IheartRadio, all under WedCo Podcast.
Join us for our next episode on the Wed.Co Podcast, where we continue to explore the
mesmerizing and ever-changing landscape of weddings.
Toga xxx
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Wedco podcast, your ultimate guide to the wedding world.
Whether you're a bride, groom or wedding vendor, this is the place to be.
Join us as we dive into real stories, expert advice and behind the scenes insights to helpyou plan the perfect day.
So grab a seat and let's celebrate love, connection and creativity together.
Before we get into this episode, I'd love to ask you a super quick and easy favor.
(00:24):
If you're enjoying the Wedco podcast, please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify orYouTube.
It might seem small, but it makes a huge difference in helping the podcast grow.
It means I can keep bringing on amazing vendors to share their insights with you.
Thank you so much for your support.
truly means the world.
I'm Toga.
And today we're doing our first Riverside recording.
We are bringing our first international guests.
We got Ben Joannet on the podcast with us.
(00:45):
Thank you so much for coming on, mate.
Really appreciate it.
It's like everyone, you know, I've been doing these podcasts kind of in person all theway, like last year and a half.
And I've just realized like I do really need to open it up.
And even I've looked at your workshops before the editing workshops, because I'm like,need to my game.
And you're definitely leading the field there.
(01:06):
So yeah, thanks so much for everything you're doing for the industry as well.
Oh, man, I appreciate it.
Thanks.
Thanks.
yeah, typically we kind of start I guess a little bit.
Like I was saying, we're kind of half, we half our audience are kind of couples, and thenthe other half of vendors as well.
So kind of like to start kind of where you began, how long you've been in the industry,and kind of go from there.
(01:29):
Yeah, amazing.
So yeah, my name is Ben Jornet.
I have been a wedding filmmaker for, was doing the maths just before I came on the show,14 years now.
And based here in Auckland, I'm also the host of the Make Better Wedding Films podcast.
Which is amazing by the way.
(01:49):
love it.
I really liked the idea of how, know, myself included, how I'm going, you know, photo andvideo route.
Cause a lot of couples, you know, in my area, that's what they're asking for.
but I really love the idea of how you are like, do films, I do the best films and reallydoubling down on that.
And I really have to kind of pick your mindset around that area.
(02:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've always, I've always done video.
I didn't come from like photography and then pick up video.
I've just, I've always done video.
Just from a end product standpoint, I just prefer like videos and what they can offercouples and stuff.
And then also from the creative side, I feel like I've got way more creative room to playin the world of film and video than I do through the medium of photography.
(02:37):
So video for me is definitely like
my passion in the area that I, prefer to plan in saying that I have been still likeflirting with the idea of the whole hybrid thing, because like you say, couples are, are
interested in it.
Yeah.
You're having one vendor that can handle everything is attractive.
(03:02):
and so whilst I do consider myself a video specialist, I have been playing around with theidea of.
taking stills from my videos and offering that as, as its own kind of product.
And I'm definitely pitching it as like, look, this is not, I'm not like a professionalphotographer.
(03:24):
like what I'm doing, what I'm doing, what I'm offering is not the same as, as hiring awhole separate vendor, but for those couples that do want both, but can't afford both.
And if the
value weight for them is higher in video and less in photo.
Then this is an offering.
(03:46):
So that's something I've been doing where, yeah, I basically use like these sort of AItools that photographers have, like, narrative and image and for like, kind of like
culling photographs.
I can put input an entire wedding, into that and it'll pull out still frames for me.
(04:07):
So rather than sifting through 150,000 still frames from my 10 minute film, I can use AIto basically unlock that process because beforehand, it would have taken too long to
manually go through and select every nice frame.
So these tools that were designed for photographers have opened up another little avenuefor videographers to play in that kind of hybrid space too.
(04:31):
And so I've been doing that this season and it's been an interesting experiment.
I don't think I'm going to continue it.
Because circling back to your kind of first point, do actually value the idea of being aspecialist and having my thing and doing it really well.
And so yeah, was like trying the whole hybrid thing was an interesting experiment, but Ithink I'm going to go back to just offering video.
(04:57):
It's a hard one.
mean, even with the AI now, like it would still be a hard process to like, okay, cool.
I'm going to upload this whole thing, you know, to what you said narrative or imagine anddo that.
Even that process in itself, even though AI is taking care of a lot of it, it's still abig process and you know, whittling those down.
And then do you even, are you changing frame rates to, know, like you're not shooting at24 frames a second anymore, like to get everything sharp or how does that work?
(05:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I have adapted my shooting just slightly.
So rather than your usual like 180 degree shutter, I'm cranking my shutter a bit more.
So like I'll shoot more at like 300th of a second, 400th of a second throughout the day.
that, yeah, my shutter is a bit crispier.
So when I am pulling still frames, I've got less motion blur.
(05:43):
And I'm shooting, I am still shooting like at 25p.
I'm not really shooting a lot of the day at 50p because
As the years have gone on, I've moved away from using slow motion basically at all in myfilms.
I keep my films very much in real time.
Um, I just, like the energy of that more.
It feels more like a true representation of the day rather than just this kind of mushy,wishy washy slow mo kind of, then this is what my couples come to me and say, cause
(06:10):
they're like, we don't want that slow everything, slow motion, boring mushy stuff.
We want what would you say like when couples are coming to you like, you know, they alwaysask like, hey, well, what is your style?
Like, what would they expect your style would be?
Yeah.
mean, I like, terms of like how I communicate my style, my brand and stuff, like I've gotmy little phrase for the romantics, which I kind of like anchor everything to, like I'm
(06:36):
definitely here for the couples who consider themselves for romantics want to, guess, Iguess they're going to have nostalgia looking back on their wedding day.
They, they appreciate writing thoughtful vows.
appreciate being in the moment and listening to their beautiful speeches from their lovedones.
(07:00):
Like those are the kind of couples I try and gravitate towards.
within that, there's a spectrum.
There's some of my couples that I do click with me are also quite party people.
Other others quite kind of fashiony bougie people.
throughout that, they're still at their core from romantics at heart.
(07:22):
And that's the kind of essence I want to kind of
put at the center of the films.
think with Australia, it's kind of it is leaning towards like, we are having the partywhere we're more documenting the day rather than the portraits.
You know, the portraits are still kind of a big thing.
But it really is like the celebration and we're bringing 100 people together.
(07:42):
And this is the focus in Auckland, like a similar kind of story over there as well.
Yeah.
I mean, I would say Auckland, well, just New Zealand, New Zealand and Aussie.
think our cultures are very, very similar.
our wedding industries are very similar.
compared to when you look at, you know, like America and Europe, like New Zealand andAussie, industries have a lot more and similarity.
(08:12):
but yeah, everyone's definitely like having a wedding to
have a party with a bunch of their mates and family for sure.
That's where you come in.
Yeah, go.
Yeah.
No, just say it's like, it's, it's kind of a bit of both.
It's like, yeah, we're definitely like here to bring the party, capture the party.
(08:37):
but without sacrificing the, authentic, the like more sentimental moments, like it's thiskind of tightrope where you don't want to go too mushy and you don't want to go too like
frivolous.
You want to that line between fun, authentic, sentimental, in a way that feels right foreach couple.
(09:01):
And this is where you kind of like, kind of course correct, depending on your couple.
Okay, like what sort of direction are we going?
Are we going a little more party?
Are we going a little more sentimental?
And that's the kind of like Spidey sense you develop as, you know, photographer,videographer over the years.
That's kind of one of your core skills is like reading people instantly and adapting both
(09:22):
your presence, your product, everything to fit them.
Definitely.
Like when you rock up and you kind of like you're just testing a little bit like, okay,guys, like, how much are we getting away with the kind of read the room as soon as you
rock up?
Like, what kind of wedding is this going to be?
Are you having second like videographers there with you on the day or you kind of there byyourself?
(09:44):
I've shifted to shooting solo.
used to shoot with a team.
And I think to like, I mean, like every now and again, big, big weddings, I'll bring on,bring on people to help me.
But where I got, I have a very bad habit of not being able to delegate.
My second shooter's got to the point of being very expensive assistant.
(10:09):
And they can't even hold you back.
like, no, I'll get my bag.
I'll get my bag.
I know where everything goes.
I'll pack it.
Right.
I was running out of things I could tell them to do.
I was like, okay, you can just like, I don't know, get shots of guests, I guess.
I'm not going to use them, but I'll get them anyway.
I'm like, it's just like, it's like audio is a nightmare.
(10:31):
You can't like go sort out the audio for me.
Cause that's like one of the most technical things that you'd got to like have 10different backups and you know, making decisions on the fly.
You can't like get, I dunno, I'm bad at delegating.
I basically just, that was like, I'm just going to do everything myself.
And I actually really like it because what I've done is I've the
(10:58):
points that were stresses for me when I was shooting solo.
I was like, okay, well how can I remove that stress?
with my tripod angles, worrying about people going out of frame.
I was like, well, I'll just frame them wider.
So if people are moving around a shot, I can reframe it and I can punch in and, you know,reframe and stuff.
Um, it's like, cool.
That's one stress gone.
(11:19):
And then like, do I have enough time to set up and yada yada?
I was like, well, I'll just make more of an effort and the
before the wedding, the pre-planning to consciously say, Hey, I need X amount of time.
And rather than like just rocking up to the prep first, well, I'll rock up to the venuefirst and set everything up and make my plan for my audio and talk to the DJ and talk
through everything.
(11:40):
And basically just like put more effort into the pre-planning so that rather than justlike rocking out the day and going, well, I've got people I can make it happen.
and just being on the fly.
I was like, well, I can just kind of alleviate some of that stress by pre-planning better.
So that's what I've done.
(12:00):
So now I just shoot solo basically.
And I guess it takes the stress out of like, even like you said, you bring other people onboard and you're like, I really hope they get in that shot.
You know, like, okay, cool.
They've got the gimbal light even with the guys I work with in the moment.
I like they'll go set up the audio, but I still know that I'm checking the audio beforethe ceremony kicks off.
I'm still checking all those lights.
I'm making sure everything's recording and now we're not peeking.
(12:23):
But yeah, I know.
won't even just.
you're kind of still in two or three different minds when you've got different peopleworking with you as well.
So even though you've got people doing other things, you're still like, okay, you'regetting grandma arriving, but you're like, I really need to make sure over there that
those, know, everything's recording over there too.
Yeah, that's a brave decision though, like just to kind of jump on and do it all yourself.
(12:45):
Yeah, I think, I think because that's that's exactly it.
Even when you do have people, you bring them on, there's still that voice in the back ofyour mind.
That's like, I don't know if I can trust that like everything's being captured and like atthe end of the day, weddings are fast.
They're stressful.
And I certainly find I, I feel more okay when I make a mistake.
(13:13):
knowing I've got my backups in on, then I kind of like wear that rather than if someoneelse who I've got on to like work with me, if they miss a shot, it's just, I don't know,
it like hits harder because it's, I don't know.
Again, I think this just comes back down to me not being able to delegate well and that'shaving like locked in my kind of managerial skills.
(13:37):
But whenever I do bring people on for like bigger weddings and stuff, I definitely havelike very defined.
rolls and it's not like I then offload the safety shots because they're I've already gotthat in place.
I'm like, okay, you're literally on like a 7200 on a monopod getting tight shots of guestsall day.
(13:59):
And that's your job.
then because then that for me and the edit is like, okay, well, that's a definite like,defined thing that if I wasn't shootings, like if I was shooting so I wouldn't have access
to like all that all those shots of
of guests and for like bigger weddings, that's something that you don't, you don't reallyhave time to go around and like get all the shots of the guests.
So, yeah, that's finding very defined roles like that, that I can then outsource for, forbigger weddings.
(14:27):
I've found much more useful than having extra people sitting on tripods for safety,basically.
Like what are most couples looking for when they book you as far as like the final productdeliverables to them?
What do you see most people kind of leaning towards at the moment?
Yeah.
So it's quite interesting for me.
I've gone on a bit of a journey with trying to figure out what couples want and need fromtheir wedding film.
(14:54):
and I had a real kind of Eureka moment, maybe about a year ago where I was like, cause I'msure you've had a similar experience where before the wedding, it's lots of convincing,
couples that the investment in the video is worth it.
And by the time they get to thinking about video, they've already, you know, forked up forthe venue and the photographer and the dress and all these kinds of things.
(15:23):
and then so they're trying to looking at what's left of the budget and go, can we justifyvideo?
But then after the wedding, when you deliver it, they're like, my God, this is like ourfavorite thing.
And we couldn't even imagine like not having this.
And like, I'm so glad we like didn't pass, like didn't pass it up.
Yada, yada, yada.
And so I'm like, okay, the value perception of video before the wedding is low.
(15:47):
The value perception of video after the wedding is super high.
How can I adjust my business model, my offerings to reflect that value perception uptick?
And so what I've done basically is before the wedding, set a couple's, look, I've got mypackages, five minute, 10 minute, 20 minute film.
(16:07):
No matter what package you grab, I'm gonna film the same.
on the day regardless.
I capture everything.
I capture all the speeches, all the ceremony, the whole, the whole thing.
so by all means just book in at the base package, five minute package.
and if after the wedding, you decide you want a longer film or you want a full copy of theceremony, we can do that for you.
(16:32):
There's no regrets.
call it my no regrets approach to filming.
And then, so yeah, we
I booked them on the five minute package.
That's not a huge like investment in terms of, yeah, before the wedding.
But then after the wedding, you know, I send them the email, here's your teaser, yadayada.
(16:57):
There's so much gold.
Do you want upgrade to a 10 minute film?
What do you think?
like literally 95 % of the time they're like absolute.
And we also want a full copy of the ceremony and full copy of the speeches and this andthat the other.
So yeah, that's basically, cause I think for couples before the wedding, they've heardfrom like friends and family, Oh, you should get a video.
(17:20):
Like maybe it's a friend who's already got married.
It's like, should definitely get, get a video.
Um, you won't regret it.
And so they're like, okay, yeah, we need to get a video.
And so basically that phrase, like we need to get a videographer gets put on the
to do list.
And so basically, I want to make taking that job off the list as easy as possible.
(17:41):
Because for most couples, like they don't really, I guess, understand what it's going tomean to watch that film back after the day.
the difference like photo you like speeches, two photos of uncle talking, you know, andthen like the video, it's just a completely different thing.
It's it's the night and day.
(18:01):
Yeah.
And so I've tried to make that process of ticking that job off the list as easy aspossible, because I know that after the wedding, it's not going to be just a thing that
they took off their list there.
It's going to like, it's going to mean so much more.
and I know, I know that's going to be true, because I hear it from couples every singletime I deliver the film.
(18:25):
and so yeah, basically before the wedding, make it as easy as possible to get video overthe, over
the line because after the wedding they will not regret.
Not at all.
And like when you read all the, you know, the Hello Maze and Together Journal, like alltheir blogs they have, you know, like what's the one thing you regret about your wedding?
And it's like not having video or, you know, it's and like people ask us, actually includethe ceremonies, ceremony and speeches in our edits.
(18:50):
And it's just same thing as what you like, I'm going to record it anyway, like for the,for the highlight film and everything like that, like we need all those little pieces.
And I think like, kind of the more a la carte realm that you go in works really well,especially if you are like the high end of video.
But it's just like once they've kind of they've paid for the venue, all like the paymentsare gone.
And now they're kind of a month after their wedding.
(19:11):
They're like, we do have the extra money for this, for this, for this.
And it's, we, my wife and I, booked our, wedding, our videographer three days before ourwedding.
And it's like the best thing ever afterwards.
We had three young kids with us.
They were, think three, two and four months old.
And even to see them grow over the last five years, it's, so cool to be able to see themin there as well.
(19:32):
The photo just doesn't do that justice.
No, this is the thing.
it's like, so I, because I am like pitching myself as a higher tier bender basically, butI'm, but because I'm video and it's like still, it's, it's a luxury.
(19:54):
It is a luxury.
It's a luxury item.
It's not a necessity.
I think it's a necessity because I'm biased, but you know, in terms of the like
general perception, it's not a necessity for a wedding in the way that a venue and drinksand food and a photographer is.
But so I can't be pitching myself just like so high that I'm prohibited, especially in ourmarkets.
(20:21):
mean, New Zealand, even more so than Aussie.
We just don't have the kind of budgets and stuff that they do overseas.
So.
I'm needing to be, especially like I said before the wedding, I can't be pitching myselftoo high because I've tried it before and I haven't got the bookings.
so are you aware of the term lost leader?
(20:45):
It's a retail term.
Basically, it's where they deliberately like shops will deliberately put a product like adesirable product at a basically a low
price that actually loses the money and they'll put that at the front of the store to getpeople in the store because once they've grabbed that they'll also grab you know some
(21:08):
headphones and this and that and the other so by the time they walk out of the store thatcustomer is gaining the money but the only reason the customer went in the store was for
the product that if they only bought that they would the shop would be losing money but inthe wash up so my like five minute film package is my kind of lost leader where I'm
pitching that
(21:29):
low enough that it's still desirable when I'm being compared to content creators andphotographers offering cheap video add-ons and things like this.
But it means that my five grand couple, by the time I'm finished with them a year aftertheir wedding and they get their anniversary email and also get, know, potentially buy
(21:51):
their like raw footage and documentary and stuff, that five grand couple turns into like anine grand couple.
So that's sort of, I'm looking at
these, I guess, clients from like a whole kind of life cycle of rather than I'm not tryingto sell you all everything all upfront, we're going to go on a bit of a journey together
when you sort of realize the value of this product is going to increase over time.
(22:15):
the couples even appreciate that more when you are being transparent.
Like at the, at the start of it, you're like, look, I'm going to offer you this video, butlike most couples, they will end up buying a ceremony of speeches later on.
Like I'm going to record that for you because maybe at the moment you don't, but 95 % ofcouples, like they will want that.
And I think they kind of.
Yeah, and I do I yeah, I do I am up for I'm not trying to be shady about any of this I'mnot hiding what I taught I I I'm like put everything out on the table to my couples and my
(22:43):
me don't like this is exactly what I do and this is why I do it because I have been doingthis for a long long time and I've heard the same story from couples again and again and
again and so I'm like look if you happen to be the couple that only just wants thefive-minute film and wants nothing else like cool no stress don't like
It's no skin off my back really in the wash up.
(23:07):
But just have the, think when couples know they've just got the freedom of, okay, we'renot going to regret not getting our speeches filmed in full.
We're not going to regret this or that and the other.
So yeah, as long as you are being upfront and honest and talking through everything withyour couples, you're not trying to be super shady about it.
Then yeah, I think it works for everyone basically.
(23:27):
And then, so like how many weddings is like a typical year for you where you feel good?
Like shooting 2030, like what feels good for you at the moment?
What feels good?
There's two different numbers.
What feels good financially and what feels good work life balance wise.
So yeah, what is that?
(23:49):
So last season, the 23, 24 season, I did, it was, I think it was 27 day shooting.
So cause I did do some like multi-day weddings and stuff.
And that felt too much for me.
This year, think I was close to, I think it was just over
20 or around 20.
And then if that was feeling better.
(24:12):
Talk to me in spring when the bank counts low, I might have another different feelingsabout it.
But yeah, the season was feeling better.
Anything more than that.
The post production gets too long.
I don't like making couples wait super long for their film.
I basically
(24:35):
try and put the expectation out there that it's going to be like 10 weeks.
And then I try and deliver it in six.
And so I try and sort of work to that sort of schedule.
And then on the filming side, I don't really want to be away from family filming multipleweddings every single weekend.
yeah, anything more than like, as soon as I push towards 30 weddings or 30 days, likeshooting on the tools, that's just way too much for me.
(25:05):
So yeah, anything around the 20 number is probably good.
Lower ideally.
being in that kind of higher air market, does that see you having to travel around NewZealand a lot away from like the Auckland area?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think too, because again, video, it's just that much more niche outside of the bigcenters outside of Auckland, particularly.
(25:30):
There's not many like videographers offering, know, specifically offering wedding films.
So, yeah, I get shipped around all over the show this season in particular.
I had more weddings out of Auckland than in.
which again is hard on like family life and commitments and stuff.
(25:53):
So.
Especially when like 30 days turns into 90 days with like travel each side and stuff likethat as well.
Yeah, totally.
But I think too with just the New Zealand wedding market, all the most desirable venuesare out of Auckland anyway.
I mean, there's some like just over on the ferry over on Waiake there's plenty of lovelyspots, but then outside of that, know, there's like Coromandel or Upper Northland or Bay
(26:28):
of Plenty.
Like there's sort of all these,
I guess, location based venues up on cliffs or by the beach or things like that.
They're all out of Auckland really.
yeah, as soon as you get into that higher budget of wedding, those couples are oftentraveling outside of the local Auckland venues to get the more desirable venues anyway.
(26:52):
So yeah, I end up getting shipped around.
Do you come to Australia much or do you want to come to Australia much for work?
I don't I haven't been to Aussie I think too because there's just so many amazing vendorsover there.
Again, less need to ship a videographer from Auckland all the way over to Aussie.
(27:15):
I used to get weddings in the islands like Fiji and stuff, but I've been getting less ofthat.
think to just like more local vendors have been popping up over there.
So less Kiwis and Aussies probably.
going over to the islands.
I have less desire to travel for work than I used to.
(27:36):
I think for me, I've been doing this a long time and like got a family now and the kind ofromance and allure of traveling for work just isn't there for me.
If I'm traveling, I want to be having time off with my family.
I don't want to be zipping around on the tools, not with my wife and kid.
those hotel rooms get pretty lonely by the end of it.
(27:58):
It's like,
Yep.
I'm Another hotel.
Yeah.
The romance of it dies pretty quick.
does.
Yeah, touching on like for couples, is it when when a kind of couple looking for for youknow, a videographer for their day?
Is there any certain hints or tips that you should think they should kind of pay attentionto when they're going through that process?
(28:21):
Absolutely.
So a big one for couples looking for videographers is I guess asking, are they capturingthe ceremony and speeches?
I think because like video as a word can encompass anything from a few shots on an iPhonethrough to fully capturing and recording everything in full.
(28:43):
I think
There's a huge skill leap up when you're going from just capturing some pretty shots thatyou can set to music, put in slow motion and whatever in that movie film versus someone
who can record your ceremony, record the words in high quality, is bringing a light sothey can make sure that when it's super dark, the person doing their speech is going to be
(29:14):
seen.
And things like this, like all these little nuances, think if, couples are starting from aplace of, okay, we want, let's just say to make it super simple, we want the words of our
wedding captured.
Cause this is like the big thing of where the video starts to really differentiate,differentiate itself from photography is capturing those words.
(29:38):
Cause the words on a, on a wedding are super important.
It's that they're
It's the kind of event where people come together and say things in a way that they don'tsay at any other event.
You your vows, the speeches that your parents say to you.
It's, you know, these are the words I've been thinking about since you were a little kidand they're, you know, they're finally getting to your wedding day and wanting to, you
(30:03):
know, say all the things I've thought about for 30 years.
So capturing those is super important.
That's the thing you're going to look back on in, you know, 20 years.
and want to remember outside of the odd pretty shot.
I think starting with making sure your, your vendor capture those moments, and capturethem well, because honestly, then if they can do that, capturing the pretty shots around
(30:28):
it is kind of the easy vert.
Like, and so, yeah, that's what I would say, because again, that's the, after the wedding,that's the thing that you're going to cherish and, and that no other vendor is going to be
able to capture for you.
is those words on your day.
I speak to a few, same thing like photographers that are now videographers.
(30:48):
They're like, the audio thing.
just don't know.
I just offer like, you know, a highlight film with like two or three songs and that'stheir thing.
And like, dude, like you have to learn to do that.
Like, I mean, there's couples that probably love that, but that can't just be a thingwhere you're just like, audio.
It's crazy that that's okay.
(31:10):
Yeah, let's say because it's purely a, I guess, fact of the, like our language doesn't dothe differentiation justice.
You can use the word video to mean wildly different products.
(31:31):
And so that's where I think the confusion comes in.
Because again, like I said, before the wedding, couples are just trying to tick that joboff their list.
book a videographer.
And that's, there's not much really comprehension around the nuance of what that actuallymeans and why of like, and they might've been told by friends or read on a blog or seen an
(31:51):
influencer on TikTok say, you got to get a videographer.
You'll regret it if you don't.
And so they just get book videographer on their to-do list.
And as soon as it gets ticked off, they think cool.
could.
Yeah.
So that's why, and I think a lot of videographers, we're still figuring out how tocommunicate that difference.
(32:16):
okay, I know your photographers said they can offer a video, but like what we're doing isdifferent.
And how do we really clearly communicate why?
Because until you see the difference, until you get through that,
wedding and you realize you can never hear those speeches again and you fully understandwhat that means.
(32:38):
We can't really, I can't really like get that message across.
when people are clear enough or that kind of booking of socials and on socials all theywant to see is like a 45 second, you know highlight little you know, know teaser So you
don't really get you It's not like you're realistically gonna put like 60 seconds of vowsup on your on your reels and people are gonna really connect with that from someone else
(33:00):
either So it does make that that communication like you're talking about it is hard toactually get that across to people Yeah, and then
Yeah, I'd love to.
Like you, you, don't know if it's still current at the moment, but on your website, I sawthat you are offering, like kind of social media package, like content creator type of
deal.
Are you still doing that?
And like, yeah, just like a little hot shoe mounted camera.
(33:21):
Yep.
And again, one of those loss leaders where I offer for free and in my, all my packages,again, just trying to like communicate to couples who like, they've seen like, maybe we
want to content creator and a videographer, but maybe we can't afford both.
will just go with the content creator by offering it for free.
(33:43):
I'm trying to like skew that value perception to be like, you like just, just go for it.
go for me, go for the videographer, you'll get the constant creation as well.
And I think by that kind of like communicating it that way, it's still like subtly skewsthe perception of it to be like, this is very much a nice to have, not a replacement for
(34:06):
video.
And because, yeah, videographers can do constant creation very easily by clamping a phoneto their camera because we stand with our camera still.
We're not like photographers who are like,
camera like portrait horizontal moving at this there any other video is whole
(34:30):
Um, like the active video is holding your camera steady.
So you might as well get both shots.
Um, and then you're in the, you know, you're in the middle of the aisle and this is how Icommunicate it to couples too.
I'm like, not only is it free, but it's not an extra person on the day running around.
It's just going to be like me and the photographer and the aisle does not like, they'renot off the side, getting a random silly angle.
(34:51):
Like you're going to get like the best shots and, and.
Yeah, because the content creation one's an interesting one where I've, it's certainlythrown up some debate and some interesting feelings in our industry, as I'm sure you've
seen and felt.
and I think, I think it's actually been a great thing.
(35:12):
It's been a great thing for a video in the sense that I think it's shaken up the industrya bit.
And I think it's made videographers wake up to, what makes us different?
What makes what we do valuable?
Um, because we've got these vendors now who can come along and do a few pretty shots andbe done with it.
(35:34):
Um, what are we doing?
That's different.
And why is it great?
Um, and I think too, there's, and then there's this extra element where, I was talkingabout this, um, on my podcast with someone else the other day where it's like, okay, the
iPhone's been around for a long time now, like 20 years, at least the iPhone.
(35:57):
aesthetic is nostalgic.
And so in the same way that the appeal of a super eight camera on your wedding day isappealing and like old little point 35 millimeter film or handy cams.
Honestly, content creation, iPhone content is doing a flavor of that kind of nostalgia aswell.
(36:21):
People actually want to see their memories.
captured on a phone because that's how the rest of their memories are captured.
Their whole life's captured on a phone.
They kind of want to have their wedding day captured on a phone as well.
In a nice, beautiful, aesthetic, trendy way, sure.
But like, you know, there is that element in there.
need the iPhone 3 to come back, know, like people want that nostalgic iPhone, like maybethat's the next thing.
(36:48):
But it's definitely, it's probably a subconscious kind of element thrown in there, but Idon't think it's, it's definitely part of it.
So yeah, and again, I'm just like, well, I'm literally doing this, because I was doing itanyway, basically.
I was filming BTS content for my Instagram stories on my phone all day anyway.
(37:12):
Like I'm already doing this job.
I might as well like.
have it as a either get paid for it or have it as a added incentive to get booked.
And so, I communicate that to couples and say, look, you're going to wake up on themorning of your wedding day with a iPhone folder full of videos.
(37:33):
And you can instantly live back those memories because you're going to wake up the morningafter your wedding and not remember any of it.
So it is that kind of instant kind of memory machine.
to start reliving those memories back in a way that people already relive their memoriesthrough little iPhone clips.
freaks me out man like having to deliver that within 24 hours.
(37:55):
I'm like,
It doesn't have to be difficult.
All I do is get my couple's cell phone number before the wedding and literally in myiPhone, I'm like, select all the photos, add to shared album, add their number.
(38:16):
Okay, love that.
Okay.
It's as easy and low friction as that.
Perfect.
It's not like you upload it into like peak time or vidflow or something like that and likeeasy gallery.
not that.
And I deliberately say like, is like instant dopamine.
Yes.
Like you're going to wait.
It's going to be just there on your phone.
(38:37):
Ready to go.
And it's just, it's instant.
really cool.
I love that.
Can we touch base a little bit on the podcast?
Like how long have you been going on on your one now?
And yeah, like how has that shifted your possession as like a videographer as well?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I've been doing make a bit of wedding films for
(38:59):
Pre-COVID.
So I think 2019 is when I started it.
And it started off as Show Love was the name of the podcast.
And did that for a bit.
I, similar to you, like started in person, just like with my like interviewing likefriends and fellow vendors and stuff.
And then I was like, cool.
I've kind of like talked to a bunch of locals.
(39:21):
I want to start talking to these people like overseas that I've been stalking on Instagramfor years.
I want to start talking to them.
So I switched it to
Online, I went through a process of like rebranding it, turned into make better weddingfilms.
And I've kind of just been like, I don't know, going through a little like ebbs and flowswith it.
(39:41):
There'll be like moments that I'll like pick it up and go hard with it more.
And then times that I kind of like let it rest for a bit.
I definitely like don't subscribe to a kind of constant barrage of content that I have tostay on a treadmill with.
I'm fine with it kind of ebbing and flowing naturally with my own pace and stuff.
(40:04):
But it's been an amazing tool to connect with fellow creatives overseas, talk shop in away that people who work from home solo all day every day often don't get the chance to,
compared to people who are in an office, know, like connecting and...
(40:26):
like, about their work and stuff.
So that's been cool.
also it's felt like I'm getting free, you know, one-on-one masterclasses from these peopleby inviting these incredible creatives, on my podcast.
it's honestly just straight up benefit for me.
so that's amazing.
(40:47):
And then also I just, I do love education.
I love the chance to teach and stuff.
having that
platform as an outlet to do workshops, make educational content, things like that is justa really fun creative outlet for me too.
Cause yeah, it's just cool being able to, you you spend like 14 years in a career, youamass a bunch of knowledge and I just, as a creative, I'm a person who wants to share and
(41:17):
wrap that up into little like educational, know, bits and pieces.
that's again, just been something that I've loved like.
having a platform to play with as well.
Especially when you can do that.
then like you said, you do have those in-person workshops every now and then all theonline courses.
I think you forget how much you actually have learned over the last 14 years.
And then also there is that whole, you feel insecure, like, well, who are people to listento me?
(41:41):
But then like, and then you like start writing like a course together or start puttinglittle bits together and you're like, oh man, I know a lot.
And you forget where you started as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think too, I definitely, I definitely felt some freedom when I had a bit of a, arealize a, cause I kind of got to a point where I was feeling some imposter syndrome with
(42:03):
the, with the podcast and the educational content being like, who am I to say this?
it's like people who are like a thousand times better than me.
And why should anybody listen to me in this?
And like, why is what I'm saying?
Who, like, how do I know if it's the
the best way to do X, Y, When I came to the realization of going, I don't need tocommunicate what the best way to do something is.
(42:29):
I just need to communicate what I do.
This is what I do.
This is what works for me.
Take from it what you will, learn from it what you will.
But I'm not trying to say that what I do is the best way of doing something.
It's just the way I do it.
And when I came to that realization and started to approach the educational content fromthat perspective,
(42:50):
just way more freeing, way less pressure, feeling like I don't have to know all theanswers or have the best answer, I just have to know my answer.
And people like watching you in this space as well, they are even without you knowing theyare looking up to you and they want to be where you are now.
And so you're like, look, you know, I don't know everything, but this is the way I've gotto this point.
And this is what I do.
(43:10):
And people really are going to look up to that.
You don't have to put on this trade and know you like, you know, really act as if you knowmore than you do as well.
Is it a lot of work and effort that you put into the podcast, like hours per week?
Again, EBS and flows.
And there's times where I experiment with different ways of doing things like I'veexperimented with more like highly produced style podcasts where they feel more like kind
(43:40):
of, I don't know, like video essay style things.
And then there's other ones that I keep more candid and just like candid conversationswith people.
I've tried to work on
Having my workflow with it as efficient as possible, using platforms like Riverside andstuff is great because they've got editing things built in.
(44:05):
They've got AI video editing tools that I wish we had built into our NLEs.
There's stuff we can do within Riverside that I'm like, I could be culling a speech withthis.
I could be pulling out sound bites with this kind of technology.
Why don't we?
amazing, isn't it?
(44:25):
just saw DaVinci bring out number 20 and even like multicam, like AI switching as well,which I know there has been other programs that have done that in the past.
having it native in the NLE is yeah, I saw all that stuff and eventually I was like,
Okay.
So it's crazy.
Like just leveraging that AI, know, some people still are pushing back a little bit on it,but far out, like the things you can do now, especially in this, like the video space is
(44:52):
it's so crazy.
Even just getting the transcript of, I can get a transcript of this, like the ceremony,all the speeches, all the vows, and even run that through whatever AI program you want.
Like, you know, what a
10 really hard hitting parts of these valves and they'll kind of spit you out along withlike timestamps and everything like that.
And then you still have to go in and choose if that's correct what they actually gave you.
(45:14):
It's not, it's not like just one hit button, boom, make a wedding for me, chat, GPT.
But there we're starting to get tools where, yeah, we can cull through two hours ofspeeches.
and rather than sitting through that manually, can we get some, some, some help, to speedup that process?
(45:35):
Because at the end of the day, if the benefit is we're still making great films, but thecouples get it a month sooner.
Is that a benefit to everyone?
Rather than just like, we don't want to be pumping out AI nonsense.
But is this a tool that can actually help us be a net positive for us and our clients?
(45:58):
Then cool, let's implement it.
the reality is, it just means that films are going to get better because you know, likethis, hard work that takes 60 % of the time, you know, kind of looking through all that
cold footage that then goes away a little bit.
And then you've got all this extra time and effort to be able to put into the finishedproduct as well.
And so I feel like the level is just going to go higher and higher too.
(46:18):
So do you want to talk a little bit about, like I've looked at your editing course beforeand I was like, yes, this is what I need in my life.
How has that like moving into that education space, how has that been in general?
Yeah, it's been cool.
It's been great.
I've because like the education market is very saturated and I didn't want to just likepump out another version of a generic this wedding video online course thing.
(46:45):
was like, look, there's lots of people who do that.
Great.
I don't feel like I need to jump in and rehash that particular thing again.
But what can I do?
So I've I first started with
my advanced cinematography workshop.
So I like, not even going to touch post-production.
(47:06):
We're just going to focus on filming and how can we work on that the best we can.
because filming needs to be in person.
So I did that in Auckland.
And that was great.
I got some really good feedback.
I actually had someone from FLYVER from Aussie for it as well, which was cool.
And yeah, huge learning curve.
(47:28):
you know, setting up an in-person workshop and doing all that.
And I think my first attendees were very gracious, letting me work through those kinks andbumps and stuff.
But yeah, learn a lot through that process.
And then naturally with doing advanced cinematography, everyone was saying, well, where'sadvanced editing?
(47:50):
So then went into the think tank to kind of plan out that.
And I loved how that
project came together because like, how do you approach editing?
It's this massive long process.
You can only do so much in a few days.
What if it's like a three day workshop but spread over three weeks?
(48:13):
And so we can basically like learn a bit, go and implement it, learn a bit, go andimplement it, learn a bit, go and implement it, get feedback through the whole time.
So we can have a much more we can have a learning process that is much more connected tothe actual process of editing itself And so landing on that format for the workshop was
great and just basically yeah put the word out to Some amazing people that I've madeconnections with over the years and gathered a great crew of keynote speakers all with
(48:45):
their various skills and expertise and various parts of the editing process
And it was great.
Yeah.
Great feedback from everyone.
And we had like a private discord along the way so people could like get feedbackthroughout those three weeks.
And yeah, cool process.
So I think we'll definitely be doing the online that kind of format of the online workshopagain and then just have to pluck up the courage to do the in-person one.
(49:16):
There's a lot more like logistics and booking.
spaces and florals and models and everything for the in-person workshop.
I feel like that would be such a massive one for other vendors though.
Like you can watch YouTube for pretty much everything these days.
But then as far as actually going out and you know, I saw like the gimbal movements yougot and like all the different aspects of the day, you don't get to just like, okay,
(49:40):
during this wedding, I'm just going to practice this movement.
You know, it's in middle of the day, you're not going to do that.
You might have these, you might think you are, but then just things start going and it'slike, cool, we're to go to the safeties.
I need to get this shot for the couple.
So I think like those in person.
Like it is obviously hard to get everyone to a place and to invest and take as easy as itsounds like, yeah, take two days to really perfect your craft.
(50:04):
But then everyone's like, I'm too busy.
So I get, I get the struggle with that, but I feel like the benefit would be massive for,the people attending that.
Like how many, how many people did you have on board for the advanced cinematography one?
Yeah.
So, we had two, want to say 20, 20, 25.
Yeah.
(50:24):
It was cool.
It was a good, it was like big enough that felt big and, so, um, but not so big thatpeople can't get their shots and stuff.
Um, and people don't get the time that they need, um, in the space that they need.
Um, but yeah, I think definitely having that freedom to practice and try things you can'tdo on a wedding day, but then also just the
(50:46):
the act of doing that with other wedding filmmakers around you and learning from them.
Like, like, feel like people were learning off each other as much as they were learningoff me on the day, which is great to see.
And even the takeaways of like, okay, I've learned this.
I won't incorporate this into my weddings.
You know, there's just some things where you say, oh no, I just know that I'm not going todo this, but now I know how to.
(51:10):
just cause it's always that thing where you start and you're like little amount of gear,more gear, more gear.
I've got everything.
And now all of a sudden like, no, now I'm pairing it all back and I'm have nothing again.
So it's like always this ebb and flow and you see these unforgivable movements and you'relike, this is amazing.
And then you're like, but am I going to do that?
I don't know.
Yeah, it's, everyone's just needs to go through their own process of yeah, tryingexperimenting.
(51:35):
And I think what was quite cool is like, people were, I guess, doing that figuring out onthe fly, either themselves, like trying out these moves and go, not sure that's quite
right for me.
Or they would be like asking, like talking through and having really good discussionsabout like very specific parts of the day around like the ceremony, for example, like, why
(51:56):
are you getting that angle and,
and trying to figure out, is this going to be right for me?
Like, you know, he's doing it different to me.
Why?
Like, is that better?
Is that worse?
Do I want to be like copying?
Do I not?
It was cool.
Everyone was super engaged with the process the whole way through.
How did you go getting up and speaking in front of 25 people?
(52:18):
Pretty chill.
think through doing the podcast and stuff, I certainly had worked through some of my fearsand stuff with speaking and because I've got a speech impediment, that's something I
learned to just kind of live with and push through and go like, yep, I got a stutter andit might like, might trip me up every now and again, but whatever, we got to push through.
(52:46):
I'm not going to not do this because of that.
yeah, so again, because I like the act of teaching and stuff.
had back a million, million years ago before doing photography, I was in dance and was adance teacher and stuff.
(53:06):
So just the act of standing up in front of people teaching and stuff is cool.
I like it.
I did two in-person events at the end of last year and I'm like, I'm fine.
Like I talk on the podcast all the time and then like I stood up in front of like 50people.
I was like, shit.
It is never, all of that said it is never king and going, I did, I was sweet.
(53:33):
But, you know, looking back, it was fun.
Well, I mean, if you're already like planning other ones as well, you like, know,something went right.
And, I think the effort, everyone does appreciate the effort you put in because therewould be so many people that would want to put on a workshop, would want to do your
podcast you're doing.
But then when it comes down to pushing themselves, they don't do it.
So I think people really appreciate like everything you are putting out, especially likethe videography community with your podcast.
(53:57):
There's so many little takeaways, you know, I'll listen to each episode.
I'm like one little thing.
I'm like, awesome.
Like, you know, just these little bits and pieces the whole way.
So yeah, I really appreciate you putting in the effort, mate, because you don't have to,but you do.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
that.
All right.
Well, I think we were like 50 minutes now.
What we can do is like, where can people find you?
(54:20):
Like socials website, all that kind of jazz.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.
So my wedding stuff at Ben.Journey on Instagram, the podcast at Make Better Wedding Films.
Those probably best spaces.
Just follow along or hit me up on DMs if you got questions or anything.
(54:43):
Always happy to chat with people.
That's another great thing I like about the Instagram community, especially with thepodcasts.
just in DMs chatting with people all the time.
yeah, feel free, reach out.
Say hi.
Any other courses opening again soon that people should watch out for?
Well, I'm not sure what's exactly going to be next.
(55:07):
I've been flirting with a book idea for ages because I'm like, I'm not sure I want to jumpinto an online course, a kind of like all encompassing online course.
Again, like I said, I feel like it's been done.
I want to do something different.
I've always loved the idea of having a like compendium, filler creatives to like workthrough.
(55:28):
and just have on their desk and reference like a kind of physical object, either forcreativity or for just learning and stuff.
that's a project I've been flirting with for years and I'm sort of probably going to jumpback into over winter.
But realistically, the next thing that will probably come out is another in-personworkshop.
(55:52):
So just definitely follow along the socials and it'll pop up there.
the next thing that comes around.
Man, thank you so much for taking the time to jump on.
I know you're a busy guy, but yeah, I really appreciate it.
And I know everyone listening will as well.
I likewise appreciate you having me on.
Yeah.
Love it.
Thanks, Ben.
(56:12):
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(00:24):
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I'm Toga.
And today we're doing our first Riverside recording.
We are bringing our first international guests.
We got Ben Joannet on the podcast with us.
(00:45):
Thank you so much for coming on, mate.
Really appreciate it.
It's like everyone, you know, I've been doing these podcasts kind of in person all theway, like last year and a half.
And I've just realized like I do really need to open it up.
And even I've looked at your workshops before the editing workshops, because I'm like,need to my game.
And you're definitely leading the field there.
(01:06):
So yeah, thanks so much for everything you're doing for the industry as well.
Oh, man, I appreciate it.
Thanks.
Thanks.
yeah, typically we kind of start I guess a little bit.
Like I was saying, we're kind of half, we half our audience are kind of couples, and thenthe other half of vendors as well.
So kind of like to start kind of where you began, how long you've been in the industry,and kind of go from there.
(01:29):
Yeah, amazing.
So yeah, my name is Ben Jornet.
I have been a wedding filmmaker for, was doing the maths just before I came on the show,14 years now.
And based here in Auckland, I'm also the host of the Make Better Wedding Films podcast.
Which is amazing by the way.
(01:49):
love it.
I really liked the idea of how, know, myself included, how I'm going, you know, photo andvideo route.
Cause a lot of couples, you know, in my area, that's what they're asking for.
but I really love the idea of how you are like, do films, I do the best films and reallydoubling down on that.
And I really have to kind of pick your mindset around that area.
(02:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've always, I've always done video.
I didn't come from like photography and then pick up video.
I've just, I've always done video.
Just from a end product standpoint, I just prefer like videos and what they can offercouples and stuff.
And then also from the creative side, I feel like I've got way more creative room to playin the world of film and video than I do through the medium of photography.
(02:37):
So video for me is definitely like
my passion in the area that I, prefer to plan in saying that I have been still likeflirting with the idea of the whole hybrid thing, because like you say, couples are, are
interested in it.
Yeah.
You're having one vendor that can handle everything is attractive.
(03:02):
and so whilst I do consider myself a video specialist, I have been playing around with theidea of.
taking stills from my videos and offering that as, as its own kind of product.
And I'm definitely pitching it as like, look, this is not, I'm not like a professionalphotographer.
(03:24):
like what I'm doing, what I'm doing, what I'm offering is not the same as, as hiring awhole separate vendor, but for those couples that do want both, but can't afford both.
And if the
value weight for them is higher in video and less in photo.
Then this is an offering.
(03:46):
So that's something I've been doing where, yeah, I basically use like these sort of AItools that photographers have, like, narrative and image and for like, kind of like
culling photographs.
I can put input an entire wedding, into that and it'll pull out still frames for me.
(04:07):
So rather than sifting through 150,000 still frames from my 10 minute film, I can use AIto basically unlock that process because beforehand, it would have taken too long to
manually go through and select every nice frame.
So these tools that were designed for photographers have opened up another little avenuefor videographers to play in that kind of hybrid space too.
(04:31):
And so I've been doing that this season and it's been an interesting experiment.
I don't think I'm going to continue it.
Because circling back to your kind of first point, do actually value the idea of being aspecialist and having my thing and doing it really well.
And so yeah, was like trying the whole hybrid thing was an interesting experiment, but Ithink I'm going to go back to just offering video.
(04:57):
It's a hard one.
mean, even with the AI now, like it would still be a hard process to like, okay, cool.
I'm going to upload this whole thing, you know, to what you said narrative or imagine anddo that.
Even that process in itself, even though AI is taking care of a lot of it, it's still abig process and you know, whittling those down.
And then do you even, are you changing frame rates to, know, like you're not shooting at24 frames a second anymore, like to get everything sharp or how does that work?
(05:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I have adapted my shooting just slightly.
So rather than your usual like 180 degree shutter, I'm cranking my shutter a bit more.
So like I'll shoot more at like 300th of a second, 400th of a second throughout the day.
that, yeah, my shutter is a bit crispier.
So when I am pulling still frames, I've got less motion blur.
(05:43):
And I'm shooting, I am still shooting like at 25p.
I'm not really shooting a lot of the day at 50p because
As the years have gone on, I've moved away from using slow motion basically at all in myfilms.
I keep my films very much in real time.
Um, I just, like the energy of that more.
It feels more like a true representation of the day rather than just this kind of mushy,wishy washy slow mo kind of, then this is what my couples come to me and say, cause
(06:10):
they're like, we don't want that slow everything, slow motion, boring mushy stuff.
We want what would you say like when couples are coming to you like, you know, they alwaysask like, hey, well, what is your style?
Like, what would they expect your style would be?
Yeah.
mean, I like, terms of like how I communicate my style, my brand and stuff, like I've gotmy little phrase for the romantics, which I kind of like anchor everything to, like I'm
(06:36):
definitely here for the couples who consider themselves for romantics want to, guess, Iguess they're going to have nostalgia looking back on their wedding day.
They, they appreciate writing thoughtful vows.
appreciate being in the moment and listening to their beautiful speeches from their lovedones.
(07:00):
Like those are the kind of couples I try and gravitate towards.
within that, there's a spectrum.
There's some of my couples that I do click with me are also quite party people.
Other others quite kind of fashiony bougie people.
throughout that, they're still at their core from romantics at heart.
(07:22):
And that's the kind of essence I want to kind of
put at the center of the films.
think with Australia, it's kind of it is leaning towards like, we are having the partywhere we're more documenting the day rather than the portraits.
You know, the portraits are still kind of a big thing.
But it really is like the celebration and we're bringing 100 people together.
(07:42):
And this is the focus in Auckland, like a similar kind of story over there as well.
Yeah.
I mean, I would say Auckland, well, just New Zealand, New Zealand and Aussie.
think our cultures are very, very similar.
our wedding industries are very similar.
compared to when you look at, you know, like America and Europe, like New Zealand andAussie, industries have a lot more and similarity.
(08:12):
but yeah, everyone's definitely like having a wedding to
have a party with a bunch of their mates and family for sure.
That's where you come in.
Yeah, go.
Yeah.
No, just say it's like, it's, it's kind of a bit of both.
It's like, yeah, we're definitely like here to bring the party, capture the party.
(08:37):
but without sacrificing the, authentic, the like more sentimental moments, like it's thiskind of tightrope where you don't want to go too mushy and you don't want to go too like
frivolous.
You want to that line between fun, authentic, sentimental, in a way that feels right foreach couple.
(09:01):
And this is where you kind of like, kind of course correct, depending on your couple.
Okay, like what sort of direction are we going?
Are we going a little more party?
Are we going a little more sentimental?
And that's the kind of like Spidey sense you develop as, you know, photographer,videographer over the years.
That's kind of one of your core skills is like reading people instantly and adapting both
(09:22):
your presence, your product, everything to fit them.
Definitely.
Like when you rock up and you kind of like you're just testing a little bit like, okay,guys, like, how much are we getting away with the kind of read the room as soon as you
rock up?
Like, what kind of wedding is this going to be?
Are you having second like videographers there with you on the day or you kind of there byyourself?
(09:44):
I've shifted to shooting solo.
used to shoot with a team.
And I think to like, I mean, like every now and again, big, big weddings, I'll bring on,bring on people to help me.
But where I got, I have a very bad habit of not being able to delegate.
My second shooter's got to the point of being very expensive assistant.
(10:09):
And they can't even hold you back.
like, no, I'll get my bag.
I'll get my bag.
I know where everything goes.
I'll pack it.
Right.
I was running out of things I could tell them to do.
I was like, okay, you can just like, I don't know, get shots of guests, I guess.
I'm not going to use them, but I'll get them anyway.
I'm like, it's just like, it's like audio is a nightmare.
(10:31):
You can't like go sort out the audio for me.
Cause that's like one of the most technical things that you'd got to like have 10different backups and you know, making decisions on the fly.
You can't like get, I dunno, I'm bad at delegating.
I basically just, that was like, I'm just going to do everything myself.
And I actually really like it because what I've done is I've the
(10:58):
points that were stresses for me when I was shooting solo.
I was like, okay, well how can I remove that stress?
with my tripod angles, worrying about people going out of frame.
I was like, well, I'll just frame them wider.
So if people are moving around a shot, I can reframe it and I can punch in and, you know,reframe and stuff.
Um, it's like, cool.
That's one stress gone.
(11:19):
And then like, do I have enough time to set up and yada yada?
I was like, well, I'll just make more of an effort and the
before the wedding, the pre-planning to consciously say, Hey, I need X amount of time.
And rather than like just rocking up to the prep first, well, I'll rock up to the venuefirst and set everything up and make my plan for my audio and talk to the DJ and talk
through everything.
(11:40):
And basically just like put more effort into the pre-planning so that rather than justlike rocking out the day and going, well, I've got people I can make it happen.
and just being on the fly.
I was like, well, I can just kind of alleviate some of that stress by pre-planning better.
So that's what I've done.
(12:00):
So now I just shoot solo basically.
And I guess it takes the stress out of like, even like you said, you bring other people onboard and you're like, I really hope they get in that shot.
You know, like, okay, cool.
They've got the gimbal light even with the guys I work with in the moment.
I like they'll go set up the audio, but I still know that I'm checking the audio beforethe ceremony kicks off.
I'm still checking all those lights.
I'm making sure everything's recording and now we're not peeking.
(12:23):
But yeah, I know.
won't even just.
you're kind of still in two or three different minds when you've got different peopleworking with you as well.
So even though you've got people doing other things, you're still like, okay, you'regetting grandma arriving, but you're like, I really need to make sure over there that
those, know, everything's recording over there too.
Yeah, that's a brave decision though, like just to kind of jump on and do it all yourself.
(12:45):
Yeah, I think, I think because that's that's exactly it.
Even when you do have people, you bring them on, there's still that voice in the back ofyour mind.
That's like, I don't know if I can trust that like everything's being captured and like atthe end of the day, weddings are fast.
They're stressful.
And I certainly find I, I feel more okay when I make a mistake.
(13:13):
knowing I've got my backups in on, then I kind of like wear that rather than if someoneelse who I've got on to like work with me, if they miss a shot, it's just, I don't know,
it like hits harder because it's, I don't know.
Again, I think this just comes back down to me not being able to delegate well and that'shaving like locked in my kind of managerial skills.
(13:37):
But whenever I do bring people on for like bigger weddings and stuff, I definitely havelike very defined.
rolls and it's not like I then offload the safety shots because they're I've already gotthat in place.
I'm like, okay, you're literally on like a 7200 on a monopod getting tight shots of guestsall day.
(13:59):
And that's your job.
then because then that for me and the edit is like, okay, well, that's a definite like,defined thing that if I wasn't shootings, like if I was shooting so I wouldn't have access
to like all that all those shots of
of guests and for like bigger weddings, that's something that you don't, you don't reallyhave time to go around and like get all the shots of the guests.
So, yeah, that's finding very defined roles like that, that I can then outsource for, forbigger weddings.
(14:27):
I've found much more useful than having extra people sitting on tripods for safety,basically.
Like what are most couples looking for when they book you as far as like the final productdeliverables to them?
What do you see most people kind of leaning towards at the moment?
Yeah.
So it's quite interesting for me.
I've gone on a bit of a journey with trying to figure out what couples want and need fromtheir wedding film.
(14:54):
and I had a real kind of Eureka moment, maybe about a year ago where I was like, cause I'msure you've had a similar experience where before the wedding, it's lots of convincing,
couples that the investment in the video is worth it.
And by the time they get to thinking about video, they've already, you know, forked up forthe venue and the photographer and the dress and all these kinds of things.
(15:23):
and then so they're trying to looking at what's left of the budget and go, can we justifyvideo?
But then after the wedding, when you deliver it, they're like, my God, this is like ourfavorite thing.
And we couldn't even imagine like not having this.
And like, I'm so glad we like didn't pass, like didn't pass it up.
Yada, yada, yada.
And so I'm like, okay, the value perception of video before the wedding is low.
(15:47):
The value perception of video after the wedding is super high.
How can I adjust my business model, my offerings to reflect that value perception uptick?
And so what I've done basically is before the wedding, set a couple's, look, I've got mypackages, five minute, 10 minute, 20 minute film.
(16:07):
No matter what package you grab, I'm gonna film the same.
on the day regardless.
I capture everything.
I capture all the speeches, all the ceremony, the whole, the whole thing.
so by all means just book in at the base package, five minute package.
and if after the wedding, you decide you want a longer film or you want a full copy of theceremony, we can do that for you.
(16:32):
There's no regrets.
call it my no regrets approach to filming.
And then, so yeah, we
I booked them on the five minute package.
That's not a huge like investment in terms of, yeah, before the wedding.
But then after the wedding, you know, I send them the email, here's your teaser, yadayada.
(16:57):
There's so much gold.
Do you want upgrade to a 10 minute film?
What do you think?
like literally 95 % of the time they're like absolute.
And we also want a full copy of the ceremony and full copy of the speeches and this andthat the other.
So yeah, that's basically, cause I think for couples before the wedding, they've heardfrom like friends and family, Oh, you should get a video.
(17:20):
Like maybe it's a friend who's already got married.
It's like, should definitely get, get a video.
Um, you won't regret it.
And so they're like, okay, yeah, we need to get a video.
And so basically that phrase, like we need to get a videographer gets put on the
to do list.
And so basically, I want to make taking that job off the list as easy as possible.
(17:41):
Because for most couples, like they don't really, I guess, understand what it's going tomean to watch that film back after the day.
the difference like photo you like speeches, two photos of uncle talking, you know, andthen like the video, it's just a completely different thing.
It's it's the night and day.
(18:01):
Yeah.
And so I've tried to make that process of ticking that job off the list as easy aspossible, because I know that after the wedding, it's not going to be just a thing that
they took off their list there.
It's going to like, it's going to mean so much more.
and I know, I know that's going to be true, because I hear it from couples every singletime I deliver the film.
(18:25):
and so yeah, basically before the wedding, make it as easy as possible to get video overthe, over
the line because after the wedding they will not regret.
Not at all.
And like when you read all the, you know, the Hello Maze and Together Journal, like alltheir blogs they have, you know, like what's the one thing you regret about your wedding?
And it's like not having video or, you know, it's and like people ask us, actually includethe ceremonies, ceremony and speeches in our edits.
(18:50):
And it's just same thing as what you like, I'm going to record it anyway, like for the,for the highlight film and everything like that, like we need all those little pieces.
And I think like, kind of the more a la carte realm that you go in works really well,especially if you are like the high end of video.
But it's just like once they've kind of they've paid for the venue, all like the paymentsare gone.
And now they're kind of a month after their wedding.
(19:11):
They're like, we do have the extra money for this, for this, for this.
And it's, we, my wife and I, booked our, wedding, our videographer three days before ourwedding.
And it's like the best thing ever afterwards.
We had three young kids with us.
They were, think three, two and four months old.
And even to see them grow over the last five years, it's, so cool to be able to see themin there as well.
(19:32):
The photo just doesn't do that justice.
No, this is the thing.
it's like, so I, because I am like pitching myself as a higher tier bender basically, butI'm, but because I'm video and it's like still, it's, it's a luxury.
(19:54):
It is a luxury.
It's a luxury item.
It's not a necessity.
I think it's a necessity because I'm biased, but you know, in terms of the like
general perception, it's not a necessity for a wedding in the way that a venue and drinksand food and a photographer is.
But so I can't be pitching myself just like so high that I'm prohibited, especially in ourmarkets.
(20:21):
mean, New Zealand, even more so than Aussie.
We just don't have the kind of budgets and stuff that they do overseas.
So.
I'm needing to be, especially like I said before the wedding, I can't be pitching myselftoo high because I've tried it before and I haven't got the bookings.
so are you aware of the term lost leader?
(20:45):
It's a retail term.
Basically, it's where they deliberately like shops will deliberately put a product like adesirable product at a basically a low
price that actually loses the money and they'll put that at the front of the store to getpeople in the store because once they've grabbed that they'll also grab you know some
(21:08):
headphones and this and that and the other so by the time they walk out of the store thatcustomer is gaining the money but the only reason the customer went in the store was for
the product that if they only bought that they would the shop would be losing money but inthe wash up so my like five minute film package is my kind of lost leader where I'm
pitching that
(21:29):
low enough that it's still desirable when I'm being compared to content creators andphotographers offering cheap video add-ons and things like this.
But it means that my five grand couple, by the time I'm finished with them a year aftertheir wedding and they get their anniversary email and also get, know, potentially buy
(21:51):
their like raw footage and documentary and stuff, that five grand couple turns into like anine grand couple.
So that's sort of, I'm looking at
these, I guess, clients from like a whole kind of life cycle of rather than I'm not tryingto sell you all everything all upfront, we're going to go on a bit of a journey together
when you sort of realize the value of this product is going to increase over time.
(22:15):
the couples even appreciate that more when you are being transparent.
Like at the, at the start of it, you're like, look, I'm going to offer you this video, butlike most couples, they will end up buying a ceremony of speeches later on.
Like I'm going to record that for you because maybe at the moment you don't, but 95 % ofcouples, like they will want that.
And I think they kind of.
Yeah, and I do I yeah, I do I am up for I'm not trying to be shady about any of this I'mnot hiding what I taught I I I'm like put everything out on the table to my couples and my
(22:43):
me don't like this is exactly what I do and this is why I do it because I have been doingthis for a long long time and I've heard the same story from couples again and again and
again and so I'm like look if you happen to be the couple that only just wants thefive-minute film and wants nothing else like cool no stress don't like
It's no skin off my back really in the wash up.
(23:07):
But just have the, think when couples know they've just got the freedom of, okay, we'renot going to regret not getting our speeches filmed in full.
We're not going to regret this or that and the other.
So yeah, as long as you are being upfront and honest and talking through everything withyour couples, you're not trying to be super shady about it.
Then yeah, I think it works for everyone basically.
(23:27):
And then, so like how many weddings is like a typical year for you where you feel good?
Like shooting 2030, like what feels good for you at the moment?
What feels good?
There's two different numbers.
What feels good financially and what feels good work life balance wise.
So yeah, what is that?
(23:49):
So last season, the 23, 24 season, I did, it was, I think it was 27 day shooting.
So cause I did do some like multi-day weddings and stuff.
And that felt too much for me.
This year, think I was close to, I think it was just over
20 or around 20.
And then if that was feeling better.
(24:12):
Talk to me in spring when the bank counts low, I might have another different feelingsabout it.
But yeah, the season was feeling better.
Anything more than that.
The post production gets too long.
I don't like making couples wait super long for their film.
I basically
(24:35):
try and put the expectation out there that it's going to be like 10 weeks.
And then I try and deliver it in six.
And so I try and sort of work to that sort of schedule.
And then on the filming side, I don't really want to be away from family filming multipleweddings every single weekend.
yeah, anything more than like, as soon as I push towards 30 weddings or 30 days, likeshooting on the tools, that's just way too much for me.
(25:05):
So yeah, anything around the 20 number is probably good.
Lower ideally.
being in that kind of higher air market, does that see you having to travel around NewZealand a lot away from like the Auckland area?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think too, because again, video, it's just that much more niche outside of the bigcenters outside of Auckland, particularly.
(25:30):
There's not many like videographers offering, know, specifically offering wedding films.
So, yeah, I get shipped around all over the show this season in particular.
I had more weddings out of Auckland than in.
which again is hard on like family life and commitments and stuff.
(25:53):
So.
Especially when like 30 days turns into 90 days with like travel each side and stuff likethat as well.
Yeah, totally.
But I think too with just the New Zealand wedding market, all the most desirable venuesare out of Auckland anyway.
I mean, there's some like just over on the ferry over on Waiake there's plenty of lovelyspots, but then outside of that, know, there's like Coromandel or Upper Northland or Bay
(26:28):
of Plenty.
Like there's sort of all these,
I guess, location based venues up on cliffs or by the beach or things like that.
They're all out of Auckland really.
yeah, as soon as you get into that higher budget of wedding, those couples are oftentraveling outside of the local Auckland venues to get the more desirable venues anyway.
(26:52):
So yeah, I end up getting shipped around.
Do you come to Australia much or do you want to come to Australia much for work?
I don't I haven't been to Aussie I think too because there's just so many amazing vendorsover there.
Again, less need to ship a videographer from Auckland all the way over to Aussie.
(27:15):
I used to get weddings in the islands like Fiji and stuff, but I've been getting less ofthat.
think to just like more local vendors have been popping up over there.
So less Kiwis and Aussies probably.
going over to the islands.
I have less desire to travel for work than I used to.
(27:36):
I think for me, I've been doing this a long time and like got a family now and the kind ofromance and allure of traveling for work just isn't there for me.
If I'm traveling, I want to be having time off with my family.
I don't want to be zipping around on the tools, not with my wife and kid.
those hotel rooms get pretty lonely by the end of it.
(27:58):
It's like,
Yep.
I'm Another hotel.
Yeah.
The romance of it dies pretty quick.
does.
Yeah, touching on like for couples, is it when when a kind of couple looking for for youknow, a videographer for their day?
Is there any certain hints or tips that you should think they should kind of pay attentionto when they're going through that process?
(28:21):
Absolutely.
So a big one for couples looking for videographers is I guess asking, are they capturingthe ceremony and speeches?
I think because like video as a word can encompass anything from a few shots on an iPhonethrough to fully capturing and recording everything in full.
(28:43):
I think
There's a huge skill leap up when you're going from just capturing some pretty shots thatyou can set to music, put in slow motion and whatever in that movie film versus someone
who can record your ceremony, record the words in high quality, is bringing a light sothey can make sure that when it's super dark, the person doing their speech is going to be
(29:14):
seen.
And things like this, like all these little nuances, think if, couples are starting from aplace of, okay, we want, let's just say to make it super simple, we want the words of our
wedding captured.
Cause this is like the big thing of where the video starts to really differentiate,differentiate itself from photography is capturing those words.
(29:38):
Cause the words on a, on a wedding are super important.
It's that they're
It's the kind of event where people come together and say things in a way that they don'tsay at any other event.
You your vows, the speeches that your parents say to you.
It's, you know, these are the words I've been thinking about since you were a little kidand they're, you know, they're finally getting to your wedding day and wanting to, you
(30:03):
know, say all the things I've thought about for 30 years.
So capturing those is super important.
That's the thing you're going to look back on in, you know, 20 years.
and want to remember outside of the odd pretty shot.
I think starting with making sure your, your vendor capture those moments, and capturethem well, because honestly, then if they can do that, capturing the pretty shots around
(30:28):
it is kind of the easy vert.
Like, and so, yeah, that's what I would say, because again, that's the, after the wedding,that's the thing that you're going to cherish and, and that no other vendor is going to be
able to capture for you.
is those words on your day.
I speak to a few, same thing like photographers that are now videographers.
(30:48):
They're like, the audio thing.
just don't know.
I just offer like, you know, a highlight film with like two or three songs and that'stheir thing.
And like, dude, like you have to learn to do that.
Like, I mean, there's couples that probably love that, but that can't just be a thingwhere you're just like, audio.
It's crazy that that's okay.
(31:10):
Yeah, let's say because it's purely a, I guess, fact of the, like our language doesn't dothe differentiation justice.
You can use the word video to mean wildly different products.
(31:31):
And so that's where I think the confusion comes in.
Because again, like I said, before the wedding, couples are just trying to tick that joboff their list.
book a videographer.
And that's, there's not much really comprehension around the nuance of what that actuallymeans and why of like, and they might've been told by friends or read on a blog or seen an
(31:51):
influencer on TikTok say, you got to get a videographer.
You'll regret it if you don't.
And so they just get book videographer on their to-do list.
And as soon as it gets ticked off, they think cool.
could.
Yeah.
So that's why, and I think a lot of videographers, we're still figuring out how tocommunicate that difference.
(32:16):
okay, I know your photographers said they can offer a video, but like what we're doing isdifferent.
And how do we really clearly communicate why?
Because until you see the difference, until you get through that,
wedding and you realize you can never hear those speeches again and you fully understandwhat that means.
(32:38):
We can't really, I can't really like get that message across.
when people are clear enough or that kind of booking of socials and on socials all theywant to see is like a 45 second, you know highlight little you know, know teaser So you
don't really get you It's not like you're realistically gonna put like 60 seconds of vowsup on your on your reels and people are gonna really connect with that from someone else
(33:00):
either So it does make that that communication like you're talking about it is hard toactually get that across to people Yeah, and then
Yeah, I'd love to.
Like you, you, don't know if it's still current at the moment, but on your website, I sawthat you are offering, like kind of social media package, like content creator type of
deal.
Are you still doing that?
And like, yeah, just like a little hot shoe mounted camera.
(33:21):
Yep.
And again, one of those loss leaders where I offer for free and in my, all my packages,again, just trying to like communicate to couples who like, they've seen like, maybe we
want to content creator and a videographer, but maybe we can't afford both.
will just go with the content creator by offering it for free.
(33:43):
I'm trying to like skew that value perception to be like, you like just, just go for it.
go for me, go for the videographer, you'll get the constant creation as well.
And I think by that kind of like communicating it that way, it's still like subtly skewsthe perception of it to be like, this is very much a nice to have, not a replacement for
(34:06):
video.
And because, yeah, videographers can do constant creation very easily by clamping a phoneto their camera because we stand with our camera still.
We're not like photographers who are like,
camera like portrait horizontal moving at this there any other video is whole
(34:30):
Um, like the active video is holding your camera steady.
So you might as well get both shots.
Um, and then you're in the, you know, you're in the middle of the aisle and this is how Icommunicate it to couples too.
I'm like, not only is it free, but it's not an extra person on the day running around.
It's just going to be like me and the photographer and the aisle does not like, they'renot off the side, getting a random silly angle.
(34:51):
Like you're going to get like the best shots and, and.
Yeah, because the content creation one's an interesting one where I've, it's certainlythrown up some debate and some interesting feelings in our industry, as I'm sure you've
seen and felt.
and I think, I think it's actually been a great thing.
(35:12):
It's been a great thing for a video in the sense that I think it's shaken up the industrya bit.
And I think it's made videographers wake up to, what makes us different?
What makes what we do valuable?
Um, because we've got these vendors now who can come along and do a few pretty shots andbe done with it.
(35:34):
Um, what are we doing?
That's different.
And why is it great?
Um, and I think too, there's, and then there's this extra element where, I was talkingabout this, um, on my podcast with someone else the other day where it's like, okay, the
iPhone's been around for a long time now, like 20 years, at least the iPhone.
(35:57):
aesthetic is nostalgic.
And so in the same way that the appeal of a super eight camera on your wedding day isappealing and like old little point 35 millimeter film or handy cams.
Honestly, content creation, iPhone content is doing a flavor of that kind of nostalgia aswell.
(36:21):
People actually want to see their memories.
captured on a phone because that's how the rest of their memories are captured.
Their whole life's captured on a phone.
They kind of want to have their wedding day captured on a phone as well.
In a nice, beautiful, aesthetic, trendy way, sure.
But like, you know, there is that element in there.
need the iPhone 3 to come back, know, like people want that nostalgic iPhone, like maybethat's the next thing.
(36:48):
But it's definitely, it's probably a subconscious kind of element thrown in there, but Idon't think it's, it's definitely part of it.
So yeah, and again, I'm just like, well, I'm literally doing this, because I was doing itanyway, basically.
I was filming BTS content for my Instagram stories on my phone all day anyway.
(37:12):
Like I'm already doing this job.
I might as well like.
have it as a either get paid for it or have it as a added incentive to get booked.
And so, I communicate that to couples and say, look, you're going to wake up on themorning of your wedding day with a iPhone folder full of videos.
(37:33):
And you can instantly live back those memories because you're going to wake up the morningafter your wedding and not remember any of it.
So it is that kind of instant kind of memory machine.
to start reliving those memories back in a way that people already relive their memoriesthrough little iPhone clips.
freaks me out man like having to deliver that within 24 hours.
(37:55):
I'm like,
It doesn't have to be difficult.
All I do is get my couple's cell phone number before the wedding and literally in myiPhone, I'm like, select all the photos, add to shared album, add their number.
(38:16):
Okay, love that.
Okay.
It's as easy and low friction as that.
Perfect.
It's not like you upload it into like peak time or vidflow or something like that and likeeasy gallery.
not that.
And I deliberately say like, is like instant dopamine.
Yes.
Like you're going to wait.
It's going to be just there on your phone.
(38:37):
Ready to go.
And it's just, it's instant.
really cool.
I love that.
Can we touch base a little bit on the podcast?
Like how long have you been going on on your one now?
And yeah, like how has that shifted your possession as like a videographer as well?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I've been doing make a bit of wedding films for
(38:59):
Pre-COVID.
So I think 2019 is when I started it.
And it started off as Show Love was the name of the podcast.
And did that for a bit.
I, similar to you, like started in person, just like with my like interviewing likefriends and fellow vendors and stuff.
And then I was like, cool.
I've kind of like talked to a bunch of locals.
(39:21):
I want to start talking to these people like overseas that I've been stalking on Instagramfor years.
I want to start talking to them.
So I switched it to
Online, I went through a process of like rebranding it, turned into make better weddingfilms.
And I've kind of just been like, I don't know, going through a little like ebbs and flowswith it.
(39:41):
There'll be like moments that I'll like pick it up and go hard with it more.
And then times that I kind of like let it rest for a bit.
I definitely like don't subscribe to a kind of constant barrage of content that I have tostay on a treadmill with.
I'm fine with it kind of ebbing and flowing naturally with my own pace and stuff.
(40:04):
But it's been an amazing tool to connect with fellow creatives overseas, talk shop in away that people who work from home solo all day every day often don't get the chance to,
compared to people who are in an office, know, like connecting and...
(40:26):
like, about their work and stuff.
So that's been cool.
also it's felt like I'm getting free, you know, one-on-one masterclasses from these peopleby inviting these incredible creatives, on my podcast.
it's honestly just straight up benefit for me.
so that's amazing.
(40:47):
And then also I just, I do love education.
I love the chance to teach and stuff.
having that
platform as an outlet to do workshops, make educational content, things like that is justa really fun creative outlet for me too.
Cause yeah, it's just cool being able to, you you spend like 14 years in a career, youamass a bunch of knowledge and I just, as a creative, I'm a person who wants to share and
(41:17):
wrap that up into little like educational, know, bits and pieces.
that's again, just been something that I've loved like.
having a platform to play with as well.
Especially when you can do that.
then like you said, you do have those in-person workshops every now and then all theonline courses.
I think you forget how much you actually have learned over the last 14 years.
And then also there is that whole, you feel insecure, like, well, who are people to listento me?
(41:41):
But then like, and then you like start writing like a course together or start puttinglittle bits together and you're like, oh man, I know a lot.
And you forget where you started as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think too, I definitely, I definitely felt some freedom when I had a bit of a, arealize a, cause I kind of got to a point where I was feeling some imposter syndrome with
(42:03):
the, with the podcast and the educational content being like, who am I to say this?
it's like people who are like a thousand times better than me.
And why should anybody listen to me in this?
And like, why is what I'm saying?
Who, like, how do I know if it's the
the best way to do X, Y, When I came to the realization of going, I don't need tocommunicate what the best way to do something is.
(42:29):
I just need to communicate what I do.
This is what I do.
This is what works for me.
Take from it what you will, learn from it what you will.
But I'm not trying to say that what I do is the best way of doing something.
It's just the way I do it.
And when I came to that realization and started to approach the educational content fromthat perspective,
(42:50):
just way more freeing, way less pressure, feeling like I don't have to know all theanswers or have the best answer, I just have to know my answer.
And people like watching you in this space as well, they are even without you knowing theyare looking up to you and they want to be where you are now.
And so you're like, look, you know, I don't know everything, but this is the way I've gotto this point.
And this is what I do.
(43:10):
And people really are going to look up to that.
You don't have to put on this trade and know you like, you know, really act as if you knowmore than you do as well.
Is it a lot of work and effort that you put into the podcast, like hours per week?
Again, EBS and flows.
And there's times where I experiment with different ways of doing things like I'veexperimented with more like highly produced style podcasts where they feel more like kind
(43:40):
of, I don't know, like video essay style things.
And then there's other ones that I keep more candid and just like candid conversationswith people.
I've tried to work on
Having my workflow with it as efficient as possible, using platforms like Riverside andstuff is great because they've got editing things built in.
(44:05):
They've got AI video editing tools that I wish we had built into our NLEs.
There's stuff we can do within Riverside that I'm like, I could be culling a speech withthis.
I could be pulling out sound bites with this kind of technology.
Why don't we?
amazing, isn't it?
(44:25):
just saw DaVinci bring out number 20 and even like multicam, like AI switching as well,which I know there has been other programs that have done that in the past.
having it native in the NLE is yeah, I saw all that stuff and eventually I was like,
Okay.
So it's crazy.
Like just leveraging that AI, know, some people still are pushing back a little bit on it,but far out, like the things you can do now, especially in this, like the video space is
(44:52):
it's so crazy.
Even just getting the transcript of, I can get a transcript of this, like the ceremony,all the speeches, all the vows, and even run that through whatever AI program you want.
Like, you know, what a
10 really hard hitting parts of these valves and they'll kind of spit you out along withlike timestamps and everything like that.
And then you still have to go in and choose if that's correct what they actually gave you.
(45:14):
It's not, it's not like just one hit button, boom, make a wedding for me, chat, GPT.
But there we're starting to get tools where, yeah, we can cull through two hours ofspeeches.
and rather than sitting through that manually, can we get some, some, some help, to speedup that process?
(45:35):
Because at the end of the day, if the benefit is we're still making great films, but thecouples get it a month sooner.
Is that a benefit to everyone?
Rather than just like, we don't want to be pumping out AI nonsense.
But is this a tool that can actually help us be a net positive for us and our clients?
(45:58):
Then cool, let's implement it.
the reality is, it just means that films are going to get better because you know, likethis, hard work that takes 60 % of the time, you know, kind of looking through all that
cold footage that then goes away a little bit.
And then you've got all this extra time and effort to be able to put into the finishedproduct as well.
And so I feel like the level is just going to go higher and higher too.
(46:18):
So do you want to talk a little bit about, like I've looked at your editing course beforeand I was like, yes, this is what I need in my life.
How has that like moving into that education space, how has that been in general?
Yeah, it's been cool.
It's been great.
I've because like the education market is very saturated and I didn't want to just likepump out another version of a generic this wedding video online course thing.
(46:45):
was like, look, there's lots of people who do that.
Great.
I don't feel like I need to jump in and rehash that particular thing again.
But what can I do?
So I've I first started with
my advanced cinematography workshop.
So I like, not even going to touch post-production.
(47:06):
We're just going to focus on filming and how can we work on that the best we can.
because filming needs to be in person.
So I did that in Auckland.
And that was great.
I got some really good feedback.
I actually had someone from FLYVER from Aussie for it as well, which was cool.
And yeah, huge learning curve.
(47:28):
you know, setting up an in-person workshop and doing all that.
And I think my first attendees were very gracious, letting me work through those kinks andbumps and stuff.
But yeah, learn a lot through that process.
And then naturally with doing advanced cinematography, everyone was saying, well, where'sadvanced editing?
(47:50):
So then went into the think tank to kind of plan out that.
And I loved how that
project came together because like, how do you approach editing?
It's this massive long process.
You can only do so much in a few days.
What if it's like a three day workshop but spread over three weeks?
(48:13):
And so we can basically like learn a bit, go and implement it, learn a bit, go andimplement it, learn a bit, go and implement it, get feedback through the whole time.
So we can have a much more we can have a learning process that is much more connected tothe actual process of editing itself And so landing on that format for the workshop was
great and just basically yeah put the word out to Some amazing people that I've madeconnections with over the years and gathered a great crew of keynote speakers all with
(48:45):
their various skills and expertise and various parts of the editing process
And it was great.
Yeah.
Great feedback from everyone.
And we had like a private discord along the way so people could like get feedbackthroughout those three weeks.
And yeah, cool process.
So I think we'll definitely be doing the online that kind of format of the online workshopagain and then just have to pluck up the courage to do the in-person one.
(49:16):
There's a lot more like logistics and booking.
spaces and florals and models and everything for the in-person workshop.
I feel like that would be such a massive one for other vendors though.
Like you can watch YouTube for pretty much everything these days.
But then as far as actually going out and you know, I saw like the gimbal movements yougot and like all the different aspects of the day, you don't get to just like, okay,
(49:40):
during this wedding, I'm just going to practice this movement.
You know, it's in middle of the day, you're not going to do that.
You might have these, you might think you are, but then just things start going and it'slike, cool, we're to go to the safeties.
I need to get this shot for the couple.
So I think like those in person.
Like it is obviously hard to get everyone to a place and to invest and take as easy as itsounds like, yeah, take two days to really perfect your craft.
(50:04):
But then everyone's like, I'm too busy.
So I get, I get the struggle with that, but I feel like the benefit would be massive for,the people attending that.
Like how many, how many people did you have on board for the advanced cinematography one?
Yeah.
So, we had two, want to say 20, 20, 25.
Yeah.
(50:24):
It was cool.
It was a good, it was like big enough that felt big and, so, um, but not so big thatpeople can't get their shots and stuff.
Um, and people don't get the time that they need, um, in the space that they need.
Um, but yeah, I think definitely having that freedom to practice and try things you can'tdo on a wedding day, but then also just the
(50:46):
the act of doing that with other wedding filmmakers around you and learning from them.
Like, like, feel like people were learning off each other as much as they were learningoff me on the day, which is great to see.
And even the takeaways of like, okay, I've learned this.
I won't incorporate this into my weddings.
You know, there's just some things where you say, oh no, I just know that I'm not going todo this, but now I know how to.
(51:10):
just cause it's always that thing where you start and you're like little amount of gear,more gear, more gear.
I've got everything.
And now all of a sudden like, no, now I'm pairing it all back and I'm have nothing again.
So it's like always this ebb and flow and you see these unforgivable movements and you'relike, this is amazing.
And then you're like, but am I going to do that?
I don't know.
Yeah, it's, everyone's just needs to go through their own process of yeah, tryingexperimenting.
(51:35):
And I think what was quite cool is like, people were, I guess, doing that figuring out onthe fly, either themselves, like trying out these moves and go, not sure that's quite
right for me.
Or they would be like asking, like talking through and having really good discussionsabout like very specific parts of the day around like the ceremony, for example, like, why
(51:56):
are you getting that angle and,
and trying to figure out, is this going to be right for me?
Like, you know, he's doing it different to me.
Why?
Like, is that better?
Is that worse?
Do I want to be like copying?
Do I not?
It was cool.
Everyone was super engaged with the process the whole way through.
How did you go getting up and speaking in front of 25 people?
(52:18):
Pretty chill.
think through doing the podcast and stuff, I certainly had worked through some of my fearsand stuff with speaking and because I've got a speech impediment, that's something I
learned to just kind of live with and push through and go like, yep, I got a stutter andit might like, might trip me up every now and again, but whatever, we got to push through.
(52:46):
I'm not going to not do this because of that.
yeah, so again, because I like the act of teaching and stuff.
had back a million, million years ago before doing photography, I was in dance and was adance teacher and stuff.
(53:06):
So just the act of standing up in front of people teaching and stuff is cool.
I like it.
I did two in-person events at the end of last year and I'm like, I'm fine.
Like I talk on the podcast all the time and then like I stood up in front of like 50people.
I was like, shit.
It is never, all of that said it is never king and going, I did, I was sweet.
(53:33):
But, you know, looking back, it was fun.
Well, I mean, if you're already like planning other ones as well, you like, know,something went right.
And, I think the effort, everyone does appreciate the effort you put in because therewould be so many people that would want to put on a workshop, would want to do your
podcast you're doing.
But then when it comes down to pushing themselves, they don't do it.
So I think people really appreciate like everything you are putting out, especially likethe videography community with your podcast.
(53:57):
There's so many little takeaways, you know, I'll listen to each episode.
I'm like one little thing.
I'm like, awesome.
Like, you know, just these little bits and pieces the whole way.
So yeah, I really appreciate you putting in the effort, mate, because you don't have to,but you do.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
that.
All right.
Well, I think we were like 50 minutes now.
What we can do is like, where can people find you?
(54:20):
Like socials website, all that kind of jazz.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.
So my wedding stuff at Ben.Journey on Instagram, the podcast at Make Better Wedding Films.
Those probably best spaces.
Just follow along or hit me up on DMs if you got questions or anything.
(54:43):
Always happy to chat with people.
That's another great thing I like about the Instagram community, especially with thepodcasts.
just in DMs chatting with people all the time.
yeah, feel free, reach out.
Say hi.
Any other courses opening again soon that people should watch out for?
Well, I'm not sure what's exactly going to be next.
(55:07):
I've been flirting with a book idea for ages because I'm like, I'm not sure I want to jumpinto an online course, a kind of like all encompassing online course.
Again, like I said, I feel like it's been done.
I want to do something different.
I've always loved the idea of having a like compendium, filler creatives to like workthrough.
(55:28):
and just have on their desk and reference like a kind of physical object, either forcreativity or for just learning and stuff.
that's a project I've been flirting with for years and I'm sort of probably going to jumpback into over winter.
But realistically, the next thing that will probably come out is another in-personworkshop.
(55:52):
So just definitely follow along the socials and it'll pop up there.
the next thing that comes around.
Man, thank you so much for taking the time to jump on.
I know you're a busy guy, but yeah, I really appreciate it.
And I know everyone listening will as well.
I likewise appreciate you having me on.
Yeah.
Love it.
Thanks, Ben.
(56:12):
Thanks for tuning in to the Wedco podcast.
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