July 15, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the Wedding Atelier podcast, guest Scott from Imagen.ai shares his journey from general portrait photography to becoming a highly successful niche wedding photographer specializing in proposals.
He discusses the importance of niche marketing, planning meticulous sessions using various tools, and leveraging blog content for SEO. Scott provides insights on building a strong referral network and optimizing content for search engines, even discussing the potential impacts of AI on photography SEO.
Tune in for a deep dive into how specializing in and implementing strategic SEO can transform a small niche into a thriving business.
*Imagen Ai - Done for You Culling & Editing: Get 1500 FREE Ai Edits
--
🏛️ Applications Close 7/31: Double Your Prices in 30 Days
💬 Let's Connect on Insta
⭐️ Rate & Review the podcast. Thank uu -xx 🫶🏽 - Apple - Spotify
💡 Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alora (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Wedding Atelier podcast.
Today I have a special guestwith me, Scott from Imagine ai,
but he's actually gonna betalking about his photography
journey and how the pandemicpropelled him to being a niche
proposal wedding photographer.
He is successful, profitable,turning inquiries and bookings
away by ranking number one onGoogle, using SEO.
(00:23):
So Scott, welcome to thepodcast.
I'm so excited to have you on.
Can you walk us through thisjourney?
Because you said you started offin portraits.
And then the pandemic propelledyou to just picking a niche and
you're doing incredible, so,yeah.
Scott (00:39):
Before the pandemic, I was photographing families a
lot.
Alora (00:43):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (00:43):
my primary of everything that I was doing.
I would be photographingheadshots I would also do a lot
of cake smash sessions for likeone year olds, which is
Alora (00:52):
Yeah.
Scott (00:53):
also really annoying.
Especially the cleanup.
And during the pandemic, mybrother-in-law was planning on
proposing to his girlfriend atthe time they're now married.
Actually the day we're recordingthis, they're at their third
anniversary.
yesterday.
So um,
Alora (01:09):
Yay.
Scott (01:10):
yay.
And so, he said to me, I'mproposing this is where I'm
gonna do it, and I would lovefor you to come and document it.
Photograph it and stuff.
She was so surprised.
She was even, she was excitedthat she saw me photographing it
of, you know, not just somerandom person.
But it went really well.
(01:30):
And then another friend askedthe same it was like two weeks
later and I said, wait a minute.
if I'm gonna be photographingthese proposals,
Alora (01:39):
Hmm.
Scott (01:40):
I've already had a YouTube channel teaching
photographers and stuff, so Isaid, let me document I do it.
So I documented literally everystep.
'cause I am, I am a planner,right?
So I used the app photo pills toplan my photo sessions.
I use Google earth, Google Maps.
I used, you name it, if it's aplanning tool, I used it to make
(02:00):
sure I got it right.
And.
So I documented everything andthen I started writing blog
articles about how I would planit and everything.
And then I started bloggingabout the actual sessions,
right, and how they went and allthat stuff.
Even talking about how GoogleMaps, street view and Google
Earth like my brother-in-laws.
(02:22):
There was a lot of trees that Icould have hidden behind if I
went by the Google.
Street view and Google Earthviews, right?
There was trees, but when Iactually got there, all those
trees were cut down.
There was no trees.
So like talking about, you know,you gotta expect the unexpected
cause you never know.
When I was photographing thefriends, literally hiding in a
(02:47):
bush, in a bush next to a publicrestroom.
And sometimes you gotta do whatyou gotta do to not lack of
better word, expose yourself a
Alora (02:56):
Unintended.
Scott (02:57):
unintended.
I started documenting andputting out video content about
it.
And then I created a landingpage for proposals and more blog
articles I think it's called theskyscraper technique, where
you've got a landing page andthen there's like all this other
content that's linked within itto then help push the main
keyword from the landing pagefrom all his blog content.
(03:19):
It just pushes it all up, right?
So after content proposal afterproposal, I would just keep
doing them.
And pretty fast it became, ifyou're searching for a proposal
photographer in New Jersey, wasthe one that would come up.
Number one.
Alora (03:36):
Wow.
Scott (03:37):
I have competition.
You wouldn't think it with avery specific niche, but I do
Alora (03:43):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (03:44):
Most of them do weddings, do families, but then also do
proposals.
I am the only that's doing justproposals.
So it really does help to get itout there.
And I'm not just talking likeGoogle or Bing, I'm talking
chat, JPT, Google Gemini Claude,you search in these LLMs, these,
(04:06):
you know, AI tools for aproposal photographer in New
Jersey.
You're not getting many results.
You're getting.
a list of five to 10 people andI'm either coming up one or two
depending on which AI tool youuse.
So, it's really interesting.
Alora (04:20):
That is interesting.
So a lot of questions come up,but one of them is like, people
probably think or are terrifiedto just niche down to one thing.
People say, oh, well I can'tjust do maternity, I can't just
do, motherhood or portraits orproposals, which I know
proposals was a niche.
I just thought, oh, weddingphotographer will shoot an
(04:40):
occasional proposal.
So what could you say tosomebody who's thinking, how in
the world are you able to nichedown and be so specific, but
still get so much traction andalso get so much business from
just specializing in one thing?
Scott (04:56):
Yeah.
So the thing that people haveto.
Think when they are consideringa niche is for one, if I was to
go search for a weddingphotographer
Alora (05:07):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (05:08):
location, there's thousands, right?
The competition is huge.
Alora (05:13):
Yeah.
Scott (05:14):
for something that's very niche, the competition is there,
but very, very small.
Now, as a proposal photographerdoesn't mean I'm going to turn
away a family session if I getone.
It doesn't mean I'm gonna turnaway like a full engagement
session if I want, right.
It also doesn't mean I have toturn away a wedding if I don't
(05:36):
want to.
It just means I'm marketingmyself as the proposal
photographer.
But it also doesn't mean I needto take on all that extra work
if I don't have the bandwidth.
I have the fortunate.
where I don't need to take onall this photography work.
I also have two young kids.
I have a family.
(05:57):
I've got stuff going on, so Ialso don't have the time to take
on too much work.
So, I don't always take thefamily sessions.
Sometimes I do.
And it's kind of like you canupsell them, right?
So there's a way to take, whatcould be a smaller.
Priced job, a proposal sessionthen do an add-on.
(06:17):
And now I'm charging a lot more.
'cause now I get a familysession with the extended
family, et cetera.
often the proposal client askingme to photograph, the dinner
party they're having rightafter.
And again, I don't always dothem because I wanna get back
home to my kids, so
Alora (06:33):
Yeah.
Scott (06:34):
'em.
so there's a lot of upsellopportunities beyond just what
you're niching for, and at thesame time, there's referral
potential, so lots ofopportunities beyond just this
small thing that you'reoffering.
Alora (06:49):
Yeah, and I was gonna ask you about that too because we
talked about it briefly in thegreen room about how you don't
wanna book absolutelyeverything, but.
Have you thought about havingsome kind of referral system how
does that work?
Scott (07:02):
I don't think it's as common with wedding to wedding,
I think it may not be thatcommon smaller niche to like
wedding for example.
Alora (07:11):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (07:12):
I could see if I was to show I have a list of six
friends that are in the state.
I'm in New Jersey, six friendsthat I have.
I literally have a bullet listin an Apple note.
That when somebody asks, whenI'm referring, I just copy paste
that list.
That unless I take somebody outdepending on the location,
right?
So I know where everybody is.
So if it's like North Jersey,I'm not including the people in
(07:33):
South Jersey.
Alora (07:34):
Sure.
Scott (07:35):
but I know that if I was to have a call with each of
those people and I said, look I.
I'm getting so many leads that Ican't take, and I'm referring a
lot of them to, I have been forfour years now.
If you gave me X amount perreferral that you book, I'd be,
you know, really happy if youwere to do that.
(07:55):
guarantee that they would dothat, especially.
A lot of these photographersalso do weddings.
So if they booked a wedding,they're making way more than
that, right?
If they do a proposal weddingand they get the upsells for the
albums and they get the upsellsfor the engagement sessions,
there's no way they're gonna sayno to like a two to$500
commission, whatever it is.
And that's just, to the lead'sperspective, you're being a nice
(08:18):
person by giving them referralsto people you trust.
Right.
Which I, again, I'm doinganyway, to the wallet.
it's a whole nother thing.
Right.
so being able to bring in moreincome would be really nice.
And the potential, I did themath on my own based on the
volume I'm doing each year ofproposals, I was to do it and
(08:41):
collect commissions plus do moreupsells on family sessions, et
cetera, I could easily makesomewhere around the$200,000
range It's insane.
Alora (08:51):
Like that's, that's mind blowing to me.
Scott (08:53):
and I don't think many people are asking, and I could
be wrong and I would love toknow if I'm wrong, but I don't
think many people are askingother photographers for referral
commissions.
I really don't.
Alora (09:04):
Hmm.
Scott (09:05):
And again, I'm guilty of it.
I'm not doing it.
Alora (09:07):
But is it normal?
Like, is that a standard thingin different niches
Scott (09:11):
Oh, in other industries, it's very
Alora (09:14):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:14):
to get referral commissions on things.
Alora (09:16):
Oh, just for example, off the top of my head, let's say I
decide I wanna do this, and I'mlike, Hey, this is my five
people I'm going to email.
I'm getting tons of inquiries.
I would love to send them to youin exchange for x.
Is that something you'reinterested in?
And that's it.
Scott (09:31):
very.
I mean, again, you're gonna doit to people that you're
friendly with already, not just
Alora (09:35):
Sure.
Scott (09:35):
photographer.
Right.
And it might even be, like, inmy case, it's been years of
referring the same people to allthese
Alora (09:42):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:43):
So they're booking.
A lot more than they might haveotherwise.
Alora (09:48):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:48):
24, 20 25, going as we're going into 2026, soon enough.
a lot of bookings are down forpeople, right?
So the more they can get fromyou, the happier they're gonna
be.
Which as a friendship that'sgreat, but also as a thing is
great for their business.
So I can't see somebody sayingno when you're asking for
(10:10):
something.
Return for after doing it foryears of not asking for
anything.
Alora (10:15):
Yeah, I love this for a networking strategy.
I haven't even thought aboutthis.
Like in, you know, like thefour-part system of like, okay,
there's collabs, there's word ofmouth, but essentially this is a
peer-to-peer networking thing,Sending an inquiry that could
possibly be worth, you know,five to 10 grand.
Scott (10:32):
Yeah.
Alora (10:33):
I have a question then too, just even about, I'm very
like in awe about this proposalniche taking off like this.
So I just, I have questions.
What does the sales process looklike?
Because you say there's upsells,there's downsells.
What do people purchase of theirproposal?
Images?
Do they purchase books?
Do they have this huge print ofthem on one knee?
(10:55):
Like, I can't picture this, soI'm really interested in what
you kind of come across.
Scott (11:00):
so some people are gonna love this, some people are gonna
hate this.
'cause, you know, there's that50 50 coin flip of people who
love IPS and people who don'tcare for IPS, et cetera.
I am offering them a gallerywith low res digitals that they
can share on Facebook and sharewith their friends and family
all they want.
If they want the high res, theyhave to pay
Alora (11:21):
Mm.
Scott (11:22):
If they buy the prints, they get high res with it.
Alora (11:26):
Okay.
Scott (11:26):
prints if they want to then print on their own or
whatever they wanna do withthose high res.
Alora (11:31):
Hmm.
Scott (11:31):
so my average proposal job is higher than my session
fee because people are buyingprints and buying digitals and
stuff like that.
But I'm not pushing, I use picktimes like automation.
Alora (11:45):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (11:46):
have their like the anniversary sale, automations,
all that stuff.
So, you know, pick time isworking for me a way, doing some
sales because I don't have thetime for it.
So,
Alora (11:57):
It's literally passive income.
You press a button and thenpeople just pay thousands of
dollars worth of prints.
Crazy.
Scott (12:03):
Yeah.
Alora (12:04):
So that's your IPS is like digital.
Scott (12:07):
in a
Alora (12:07):
like DPS.
Scott (12:08):
yeah.
pick times automation.
Just do that part for me.
If I had to, actually be gettingon a call, doing a gallery
reveal and trying to.
talk to them about a book theyprobably wouldn't want an,
Album,
Alora (12:21):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (12:22):
they're gonna be getting that for their wedding.
But there's still some profit inbooks, so I
Alora (12:26):
Like a photo book.
Scott (12:27):
I went to college for photography and I knew going
into it, if I did it full time,I'd hate photography and I love
photography, so I don't wannahate it.
So I've always worked on thisside of the industry, basically
educating doing the communityaspect and hosting podcasts, and
doing that stuff.
Alora (12:45):
You're a busy man.
Scott (12:46):
I'm a busy man.
Alora (12:47):
So busy, man.
Walk me through what SEO keywordresearch looked like for you to
be number one
Scott (12:55):
Yeah.
Alora (12:55):
as a proposal photographer.
Scott (12:58):
So the beautiful thing about a niche is it leaves your
keywords very limited, right?
So for me, once I realized, youknow, proposals are fun as heck
stressful but.
There's a workflow
Alora (13:14):
Mm.
Scott (13:14):
could follow, you know, proposal after proposal making
it very streamlined, where attimes a family session can get a
little crazy, right?
Especially when there's littlekids involved.
I love my kids, but you know,they can get crazy.
Alora (13:29):
Yes.
Yes.
Scott (13:30):
so once I realized, you know what, I like this a lot and
I could do this, I did somesearches for proposal
photography step one was seeingwhat Google suggested as
alternative searches on mylocation and New Jersey proposal
photography was the mainkeyword.
So I have keywords throughout mysite for New Jersey proposal
(13:55):
photography, New Jersey,surprise proposal photography.
Photographer, you know, likedifferentiates that are there.
But it wasn't much that I had toresearch.
It was just then putting in thework to the keywords in the
right places with it lookingnatural.
Getting it in the rightmetadata, with H ones and H twos
and h threes in the rightplaces, and bolding keywords and
(14:17):
using bullets and doing all thethings.
That need to get done in a niceway.
it's interesting'cause you couldgo to my proposal photography
landing page, you'd be like,this is not pretty.
doesn't have to be, you knowwhat it's gotta, show the work.
has to provide information atthe same time it has to speak to
the people and speak to thesearch engines.
(14:37):
It's a hard task sometimesmaking it look beautiful.
Can't get the task done,
Alora (14:42):
Ooh,
Scott (14:43):
yep.
Alora (14:44):
an on-brand girly, so this, would stress me out.
I'm like, does this, does itflow?
Does it, does the color there?
Okay.
How, okay, how does the H one, Htwo, even coincide with SEO?
Scott (14:56):
Yeah.
Alora (14:57):
that you tell me that all plays a part like in.
I don't get it.
'cause with text is text, isn'tit?
What difference does it make ifit's H one, H two, H three, you
know?
Scott (15:06):
Search engines, the first thing they look for is the H
one, which is typically thetitle of the page,
Alora (15:11):
Oh,
Scott (15:12):
So you actually want your keyword in the H one.
Alora (15:17):
oh.
Scott (15:17):
And then there's like, it can get down to the nitty gritty
where not only do they want itin the H one, but they want it
in the beginning of the H one.
So for example, new Jerseyproposal photographer, right?
Let's say that was the key wordthat you're trying to go for
right now.
you'd have to come up with aheadline that started with New
Jersey proposal photographer.
But if you're trying to thinkabout people, you now have to.
(15:38):
Find a way to fit that into an Hone that reads better.
So there's this fine line ofwhat is more important at the
time that you wanna, that youwanna on.
So, but then you have H twos,which support the H one with
similar keywords, things thatare related, then h threes that
also are part of it that, givesome additional signals to the
(16:02):
search engines that this is whatthe page is about but are less
valuable for SEO than H two andH one, but they still play a
tiny role.
Alora (16:10):
So you're saying,
Scott (16:11):
yeah.
Alora (16:12):
H one is the title, like that's what Google brings up,
and then everything else needsto support that title with
variant keywords that alsosupport the blog posts though,
because I mean, you can't keepsaying the same thing, or it
sounds weird to a human being.
Scott (16:29):
Here's an example opened another tab right now,
Alora (16:31):
Great.
Scott (16:32):
Okay.
So my H one is surprise proposalphotography.
Alora (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (16:38):
Nothing fancy, not like, you know, the greatest proposal
photographer in New Jersey.
Like, nothing fancy.
Alora (16:44):
Sure.
Scott (16:44):
headline that's going to attract people.
It's literally surprise proposalphotography.
But if you go to the site, youwouldn't know it's the H one.
It's just a headline above witha bunch of other texts and
images and stuff like that.
the first H two.
On the page, which is furtherdown below is a prize proposal
photographer in New Jersey, andit's like its own section.
(17:06):
It has more information.
It actually has my story abouthow I documented my own proposal
to my wife whatever year thatwas.
It was a long time.
2010, I proposed to my wife.
I have that as an H two.
I then have some h threes thatis like, I will document the
magic, enjoy your moment.
different like headlines thatsort of support what's
(17:27):
happening, but it's not aboutthat.
I then have an H two.
That's everything you wanted toknow about surprise proposal
photography.
And I have an H two that is howsurprise proposal photography
sessions work.
and then in H three that start aconversation.
And then the part that is likeway at the bottom is a section
that has links to the latestarticles on my blog about
(17:50):
proposal photography.
And that H two above that is allabout surprise proposal
photography.
So it's in there, the keywordsare there, but you wouldn't look
at it and be like, that's forSEO'cause it's the way I've
structured it.
Alora (18:04):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (18:05):
looks as it's got sections for people to go
through, not just searchengines.
Alora (18:11):
That is so good.
That was the Google juice I waslooking for is like, okay, how
does this sound like a persontalking?
Scott (18:18):
Yeah.
Alora (18:18):
But it's really interesting'cause it's almost
like everything that peoplesearch about, surprise proposal
photography is weaved into yourone page, right?
Scott (18:27):
a hundred
Alora (18:28):
Yeah.
Smart.
Scott (18:29):
the blog content just feeds to it.
Tell search engines.
That's the landing page rightthere.
Alora (18:35):
Okay.
One more question.
So blog posts that werestrategic on your end that you
knew people were asking aboutproposal photography.
Give me like your top three bestperforming.
Scott (18:48):
Okay, so one that's been working really well is 20 plus
locations for memorableproposals in New Jersey.
And it's not even, I haven'teven photographed at all these
locations.
Some of'em I have and I includedphotos from it.
Alora (19:04):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (19:05):
I've been to many of these locations, right?
Alora (19:08):
Okay.
Scott (19:08):
One thing I have is I live in a, the town I live in
has a lot of fantastic locationsand I would love to stop getting
leads that are two hours away.
'cause like I say, I am in thiscounty, in New Jersey.
Like if you Googled it, you knowwhere I am.
Right?
And.
Like just yesterday I got a leadfor, it's an hour and 45 minutes
(19:29):
north the guy's gonna propose ona rowboat on a giant lake, which
means I would have to rent ahuge lens.
'cause how far out in the wateris he gonna be?
At eight 30 at night?
During the summer gonna beblackout, like it's gonna be
dark, right?
There's not gonna be sun anymoreanyway, so, I am referring that
one to other photographers thatare closer.
(19:51):
But that, that's what I mean.
Like, I judge everything tofigure out, do I wanna go
through this effort?
Do I have the time to do this?
No, not that one.
Right.
Refer.
Anyway, so try to get morepeople booking in my town the
town over.
So I created a blog article,unforgettable Proposal Locations
in Freehold, New Jersey.
(20:12):
And that is starting to gettraction.
I've gotten a couple leads fromit, but not as much as so I
would say the 20 plus locationsin New Jersey has gotten me, oh
no, there's another I mentionedto you my Princeton University
story.
Okay.
So an article, I'm trying tofigure out, hold on, what the
(20:33):
title of it is.
But the article is aboutproposals at Princeton
University, and that is like themain driver,
Alora (20:43):
Wow.
Scott (20:44):
a magical surprise proposal at Princeton
University.
Alora (20:47):
Hmm.
Scott (20:47):
literally that's, that's the title.
nothing too crazy.
And I went for magical becauseagain, this couple loved, Harry
Potter.
Alora (20:56):
Yeah.
Scott (20:56):
And actually not all my couples set up a scene, but this
one, he had two of his friendsset up a beautiful scene on
campus with a flower, heart anda marry me LED sign and a whole
bunch of
Alora (21:12):
Wow.
Scott (21:13):
So the, like the BTS of.
Before the, they even got therecool.
Just'cause the University campusis gorgeous.
anyway, that one gets me tons ofleads, especially at Princeton
University.
we talked about this onImagine's podcast blogging about
(21:33):
what you want to attract,
Alora (21:34):
so, how long did this take you, like for you to
realize that this SEO wasworking?
You just kind of like.
What posted one blog, two tothree, and they're like, oh, I'm
getting inquiries from it.
How do you know what's working,what's not working, and how long
did it take?
Scott (21:48):
I didn't think about if it's gonna work until I made a
couple YouTube videos bloggedabout them.
And then leads started coming infrom them.
Alora (21:58):
Wow.
Scott (21:59):
like, so there's something here.
And I was talking to my wife andshe's like, let's try to do some
more.
So I, you know, she held ontothe kids and I wrote some more
blog articles and then it justkept coming.
So the more I do, the more leadscome.
And it's a crazy intense cycle.
Alora (22:17):
Yeah, I mean, and how do you know?
Which blog posts are bringing inleads?
I guess, do they say, oh, we sawyour blog, or is there like a
dropdown on your contact form?
Scott (22:27):
So my lead form for proposals I use Gravity Forms,
which is a plugin for WordPress.
And in it I can see which linkdrove to the form.
there's a couple ways.
One is that, I have a, field inthe form that will tell me the
URL that it came from, whetherit came from Google, whether it
(22:49):
came from GPT, whether it camefrom one, my blog articles,
whatever it is, know exactlywhat link it came from.
other is Google Analytics,right?
That can also tell you wherepeople are coming from.
But Google Analytics has gottenvery complicated over the years.
And lately I've been using.
A plugin for WordPress calledindependent analytics, which you
(23:12):
don't have to worry about GDPR,it's all anonymous.
It also integrates with formplugins including gravity forms,
so I know what pages and whatblog posts are on rise as far as
traffic goes, as well as whichare converting.
With my forms.
(23:33):
So I just look at that on aregular basis
Alora (23:37):
Okay.
So it's like a web of things,but it gives you all the data
that you need.
Scott (23:40):
Yep.
Alora (23:41):
can't even picture this personally.
So you say you're ranking onchat GPT.
Do you know how that happened oris it just directly correlated
with SEO?
Like how is that going?
Scott (23:50):
Right.
I don't think that.
I know there's people coming upwith terminologies for like
Alora (23:56):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (23:56):
I don't think there's much to it other than optimize
your site search engines first.
Alora (24:03):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (24:04):
The AI software, they are all utilizing engines to find
the content that they're goingto talk about, right?
It is up to the photographer todecide am I blocking GPTs from
consuming my site and utilizingmy site because are they gonna
scrape my photos?
(24:24):
Yeah.
Do I wanna show up when they arelike chat.
GPT is part of Bing.
Go Gemini is part of Google now.
Like they're deeply integrated.
If you wanna show up in searchengines when the AI results are
giving you.
You have to make your decisionnow, two years ago, I want my
stuff consumed by these gpt?
(24:47):
And if you don't, if you don'tcare, I mean, I don't want my
photos consumed and utilized, atthe same time, I want my site to
show up.
I want to be recommended.
Alora (24:58):
Yeah.
Scott (24:59):
really tough call.
if you are a photographer on theside where you're saying, Nope,
stay away from my photos.
All right, but you're not gonnashow up in the AI results.
It's not gonna happen.
Alora (25:10):
How do you do that?
You just do, you write GPTAletter and say, don't share my
information?
Like how do we have control overwhat's on the internet?
Scott (25:17):
Yeah.
So if you're in WordPress,there's a plugin you can
install.
There's multiple that are likeGPT blockers.
Alora (25:23):
Oh.
Scott (25:23):
a, there's a file called robots txt file that every
website has, whether you know itor not.
And there's like a little scriptyou can put into that.
And on the WordPress side,there's a simple plugin you can
install.
I don't know if like theSquarespaces and Wix and all
those of the world.
Have an option for it, but I'massuming at some point if they
(25:44):
don't now they will have anoption to block.
Alora (25:46):
Okay.
Scott (25:47):
it's actually very easy to block at the end of the day.
It's just, you've gotta knowwhat to look for to do it.
the thing is, you gotta keep inmind that Google, for example,
is looking at your website's,basically, right?
It's not looking at your imageswhen it sees your image, it's
looking at the alt text.
For your image.
Alora (26:05):
Oh.
Scott (26:06):
'Cause it doesn't see the image, it just sees HTML,
whereas Chachi Pates, theClaudes, the Geminis, not only
are they looking at your site,they're looking at the images.
So when I talk about a magicalsurprise proposal at Princeton
University, It sees the text onthe site, it also sees the photo
of a proposal happening on thecampus of Princeton.
(26:27):
It recognizes,'cause it knowswhat Princeton University looks
like.
'cause it's crawled PrincetonUniversity already.
Right.
So it's in a way than yourtypical search engine algorithm.
impressive all at the same time.
Alora (26:42):
Yes, it is.
What is your opinion on it?
Do you feel like, like where youstand, not necessarily what
everybody else should do, butlike, personally you, you're
like, I'm gonna keep it, youknow, available for surge in
chat GBT, or just knowing thatthere is a risk involved because
Jet GBT can also take yourimages.
does it do that?
(27:03):
Does chat GPT take your imagesat all and like use them for
anything?
Like what is the risk I guess,of being chat?
GPT searchable?
Scott (27:11):
We don't know if they're just taking images when they.
Are crawling your website andstuff.
we don't know for certain, butthere is that risk that they are
doing that.
Just today, I think in the newsthe
Alora (27:24):
my.
Scott (27:25):
Museum, now we're talking Holocaust.
We're here.
Strange shift for, for thispodcast.
But they just sent a legalletter to meta saying Stop using
our photos of Holocaustsurvivors to train your ai.
they found out that it washappening.
Alora (27:41):
How did
Scott (27:42):
You never know.
Alora (27:44):
nothing is safe.
Scott (27:45):
I guess people were typing in a prompt and it was
coming out exactly like theseHolocaust photos.
So it's happening.
It's, there's no way to know.
It's just up to eachphotographer to decide, do I
wanna block myself completely?
you can block just the imageaspect, but then that's gonna
also impact your search.
(28:06):
For where you would show, soit's you, you just have to make
the decision for yourself atthat point.
It's the world we live in now,it's crazy.
Alora (28:15):
is absolutely terrifying.
Scott (28:17):
Yeah.
Alora (28:18):
On a high note concerning like SEO and keyword and
research and all the things thatwe talked about today, because
I, I think it's reallyincredible that you can use SEO.
To niche down and still be assuccessful as a wedding
photographer.
You know what I mean?
Like as a surprise photographer,as any niche that to decide
Scott (28:35):
Yeah.
Alora (28:35):
what is the first thing that they need to do if they
just need to walk away withsomething, they need something
to do after this, because youtaught a lot about the H tags,
keywords, the blog posts.
What do they need to do rightnow to get started before they
do anything else?
Scott (28:50):
If you have an idea for what you would want a niche down
to.
Map out the processes first,right before you, like, go all
in, map it out, see how easy itis to replicate without driving
yourself.
Insane, right?
You wanna make sure that it isniche, that it's consuming the
(29:10):
amount of time that you wantedto consume, right?
When I first started doingproposals, just to give you an
example.
When I was just figuring out myprocesses, it probably took me
about four to five hours to plana proposal with the client.
Now it, I'm done in like anhour.
You know, it's just a, you gottafigure it out and make sure can
be replicated.
So figure that part out and thensee where your competition is,
(29:32):
if you have any, if you don'thave any you could go to Google
Ads and see how many people aresearching.
using the Google keywordplanner.
Figure out how many people areactually searching for the
keyword.
Is it worth pursuing that?
build up your referral listahead of time because as a niche
photographer you're doing this,so that you have more control in
a way of your time, figuring outwho you can refer to.
(29:54):
And people that you're friendswith, not just anybody.
Right.
The photography industry, as youknow, is a very relationship
driven, community drivenindustry.
And if you haven't made friendswith photographers in your area,
what are you waiting for?
Right?
So that's important to have thatlist ready to go as well.
(30:14):
And I had mine and then it grewover the years.
So.
Alora (30:18):
Yeah.
Scott (30:18):
I would
Alora (30:19):
That's amazing.
Scott (30:19):
yeah, that's a good way to get started.
Alora (30:21):
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Scott, forcoming on and just sharing your
wealth of knowledge and justshowing what's possible.
Scott (30:27):
Mm-hmm.
Alora (30:28):
Because I just know a lot of people probably think they
have to do all of the things,photograph all the events to
make ends meet,
Scott (30:35):
Yeah.
Alora (30:35):
and you could just be good at one thing and then
eventually turn everybody awaybecause you have so many
inquiries.
Like that is so inspiring.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Tell everybody how they can findyou and yeah, work with you.
Scott (30:51):
Yeah, so if you wanna check out my website or where I
am on socials, I'm not a big fanof social media, but I'm there
'cause we have to be.
Alora (30:57):
Yeah.
Scott (30:58):
It's W-Y-D-E-N.
But I also run the ImagineCommunity, and also host our
podcast called Workflows.
Alora (31:06):
Well, that was it for today's episode.
I hope you guys got so much outof this SEO masterclass and see
you guys next week.
Bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Wedding Atelier podcast.
Today I have a special guestwith me, Scott from Imagine ai,
but he's actually gonna betalking about his photography
journey and how the pandemicpropelled him to being a niche
proposal wedding photographer.
He is successful, profitable,turning inquiries and bookings
away by ranking number one onGoogle, using SEO.
(00:23):
So Scott, welcome to thepodcast.
I'm so excited to have you on.
Can you walk us through thisjourney?
Because you said you started offin portraits.
And then the pandemic propelledyou to just picking a niche and
you're doing incredible, so,yeah.
Scott (00:39):
Before the pandemic, I was photographing families a
lot.
Alora (00:43):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (00:43):
my primary of everything that I was doing.
I would be photographingheadshots I would also do a lot
of cake smash sessions for likeone year olds, which is
Alora (00:52):
Yeah.
Scott (00:53):
also really annoying.
Especially the cleanup.
And during the pandemic, mybrother-in-law was planning on
proposing to his girlfriend atthe time they're now married.
Actually the day we're recordingthis, they're at their third
anniversary.
yesterday.
So um,
Alora (01:09):
Yay.
Scott (01:10):
yay.
And so, he said to me, I'mproposing this is where I'm
gonna do it, and I would lovefor you to come and document it.
Photograph it and stuff.
She was so surprised.
She was even, she was excitedthat she saw me photographing it
of, you know, not just somerandom person.
But it went really well.
(01:30):
And then another friend askedthe same it was like two weeks
later and I said, wait a minute.
if I'm gonna be photographingthese proposals,
Alora (01:39):
Hmm.
Scott (01:40):
I've already had a YouTube channel teaching
photographers and stuff, so Isaid, let me document I do it.
So I documented literally everystep.
'cause I am, I am a planner,right?
So I used the app photo pills toplan my photo sessions.
I use Google earth, Google Maps.
I used, you name it, if it's aplanning tool, I used it to make
(02:00):
sure I got it right.
And.
So I documented everything andthen I started writing blog
articles about how I would planit and everything.
And then I started bloggingabout the actual sessions,
right, and how they went and allthat stuff.
Even talking about how GoogleMaps, street view and Google
Earth like my brother-in-laws.
(02:22):
There was a lot of trees that Icould have hidden behind if I
went by the Google.
Street view and Google Earthviews, right?
There was trees, but when Iactually got there, all those
trees were cut down.
There was no trees.
So like talking about, you know,you gotta expect the unexpected
cause you never know.
When I was photographing thefriends, literally hiding in a
(02:47):
bush, in a bush next to a publicrestroom.
And sometimes you gotta do whatyou gotta do to not lack of
better word, expose yourself a
Alora (02:56):
Unintended.
Scott (02:57):
unintended.
I started documenting andputting out video content about
it.
And then I created a landingpage for proposals and more blog
articles I think it's called theskyscraper technique, where
you've got a landing page andthen there's like all this other
content that's linked within itto then help push the main
keyword from the landing pagefrom all his blog content.
(03:19):
It just pushes it all up, right?
So after content proposal afterproposal, I would just keep
doing them.
And pretty fast it became, ifyou're searching for a proposal
photographer in New Jersey, wasthe one that would come up.
Number one.
Alora (03:36):
Wow.
Scott (03:37):
I have competition.
You wouldn't think it with avery specific niche, but I do
Alora (03:43):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (03:44):
Most of them do weddings, do families, but then also do
proposals.
I am the only that's doing justproposals.
So it really does help to get itout there.
And I'm not just talking likeGoogle or Bing, I'm talking
chat, JPT, Google Gemini Claude,you search in these LLMs, these,
(04:06):
you know, AI tools for aproposal photographer in New
Jersey.
You're not getting many results.
You're getting.
a list of five to 10 people andI'm either coming up one or two
depending on which AI tool youuse.
So, it's really interesting.
Alora (04:20):
That is interesting.
So a lot of questions come up,but one of them is like, people
probably think or are terrifiedto just niche down to one thing.
People say, oh, well I can'tjust do maternity, I can't just
do, motherhood or portraits orproposals, which I know
proposals was a niche.
I just thought, oh, weddingphotographer will shoot an
(04:40):
occasional proposal.
So what could you say tosomebody who's thinking, how in
the world are you able to nichedown and be so specific, but
still get so much traction andalso get so much business from
just specializing in one thing?
Scott (04:56):
Yeah.
So the thing that people haveto.
Think when they are consideringa niche is for one, if I was to
go search for a weddingphotographer
Alora (05:07):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (05:08):
location, there's thousands, right?
The competition is huge.
Alora (05:13):
Yeah.
Scott (05:14):
for something that's very niche, the competition is there,
but very, very small.
Now, as a proposal photographerdoesn't mean I'm going to turn
away a family session if I getone.
It doesn't mean I'm gonna turnaway like a full engagement
session if I want, right.
It also doesn't mean I have toturn away a wedding if I don't
(05:36):
want to.
It just means I'm marketingmyself as the proposal
photographer.
But it also doesn't mean I needto take on all that extra work
if I don't have the bandwidth.
I have the fortunate.
where I don't need to take onall this photography work.
I also have two young kids.
I have a family.
(05:57):
I've got stuff going on, so Ialso don't have the time to take
on too much work.
So, I don't always take thefamily sessions.
Sometimes I do.
And it's kind of like you canupsell them, right?
So there's a way to take, whatcould be a smaller.
Priced job, a proposal sessionthen do an add-on.
(06:17):
And now I'm charging a lot more.
'cause now I get a familysession with the extended
family, et cetera.
often the proposal client askingme to photograph, the dinner
party they're having rightafter.
And again, I don't always dothem because I wanna get back
home to my kids, so
Alora (06:33):
Yeah.
Scott (06:34):
'em.
so there's a lot of upsellopportunities beyond just what
you're niching for, and at thesame time, there's referral
potential, so lots ofopportunities beyond just this
small thing that you'reoffering.
Alora (06:49):
Yeah, and I was gonna ask you about that too because we
talked about it briefly in thegreen room about how you don't
wanna book absolutelyeverything, but.
Have you thought about havingsome kind of referral system how
does that work?
Scott (07:02):
I don't think it's as common with wedding to wedding,
I think it may not be thatcommon smaller niche to like
wedding for example.
Alora (07:11):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (07:12):
I could see if I was to show I have a list of six
friends that are in the state.
I'm in New Jersey, six friendsthat I have.
I literally have a bullet listin an Apple note.
That when somebody asks, whenI'm referring, I just copy paste
that list.
That unless I take somebody outdepending on the location,
right?
So I know where everybody is.
So if it's like North Jersey,I'm not including the people in
(07:33):
South Jersey.
Alora (07:34):
Sure.
Scott (07:35):
but I know that if I was to have a call with each of
those people and I said, look I.
I'm getting so many leads that Ican't take, and I'm referring a
lot of them to, I have been forfour years now.
If you gave me X amount perreferral that you book, I'd be,
you know, really happy if youwere to do that.
(07:55):
guarantee that they would dothat, especially.
A lot of these photographersalso do weddings.
So if they booked a wedding,they're making way more than
that, right?
If they do a proposal weddingand they get the upsells for the
albums and they get the upsellsfor the engagement sessions,
there's no way they're gonna sayno to like a two to$500
commission, whatever it is.
And that's just, to the lead'sperspective, you're being a nice
(08:18):
person by giving them referralsto people you trust.
Right.
Which I, again, I'm doinganyway, to the wallet.
it's a whole nother thing.
Right.
so being able to bring in moreincome would be really nice.
And the potential, I did themath on my own based on the
volume I'm doing each year ofproposals, I was to do it and
(08:41):
collect commissions plus do moreupsells on family sessions, et
cetera, I could easily makesomewhere around the$200,000
range It's insane.
Alora (08:51):
Like that's, that's mind blowing to me.
Scott (08:53):
and I don't think many people are asking, and I could
be wrong and I would love toknow if I'm wrong, but I don't
think many people are askingother photographers for referral
commissions.
I really don't.
Alora (09:04):
Hmm.
Scott (09:05):
And again, I'm guilty of it.
I'm not doing it.
Alora (09:07):
But is it normal?
Like, is that a standard thingin different niches
Scott (09:11):
Oh, in other industries, it's very
Alora (09:14):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:14):
to get referral commissions on things.
Alora (09:16):
Oh, just for example, off the top of my head, let's say I
decide I wanna do this, and I'mlike, Hey, this is my five
people I'm going to email.
I'm getting tons of inquiries.
I would love to send them to youin exchange for x.
Is that something you'reinterested in?
And that's it.
Scott (09:31):
very.
I mean, again, you're gonna doit to people that you're
friendly with already, not just
Alora (09:35):
Sure.
Scott (09:35):
photographer.
Right.
And it might even be, like, inmy case, it's been years of
referring the same people to allthese
Alora (09:42):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:43):
So they're booking.
A lot more than they might haveotherwise.
Alora (09:48):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (09:48):
24, 20 25, going as we're going into 2026, soon enough.
a lot of bookings are down forpeople, right?
So the more they can get fromyou, the happier they're gonna
be.
Which as a friendship that'sgreat, but also as a thing is
great for their business.
So I can't see somebody sayingno when you're asking for
(10:10):
something.
Return for after doing it foryears of not asking for
anything.
Alora (10:15):
Yeah, I love this for a networking strategy.
I haven't even thought aboutthis.
Like in, you know, like thefour-part system of like, okay,
there's collabs, there's word ofmouth, but essentially this is a
peer-to-peer networking thing,Sending an inquiry that could
possibly be worth, you know,five to 10 grand.
Scott (10:32):
Yeah.
Alora (10:33):
I have a question then too, just even about, I'm very
like in awe about this proposalniche taking off like this.
So I just, I have questions.
What does the sales process looklike?
Because you say there's upsells,there's downsells.
What do people purchase of theirproposal?
Images?
Do they purchase books?
Do they have this huge print ofthem on one knee?
(10:55):
Like, I can't picture this, soI'm really interested in what
you kind of come across.
Scott (11:00):
so some people are gonna love this, some people are gonna
hate this.
'cause, you know, there's that50 50 coin flip of people who
love IPS and people who don'tcare for IPS, et cetera.
I am offering them a gallerywith low res digitals that they
can share on Facebook and sharewith their friends and family
all they want.
If they want the high res, theyhave to pay
Alora (11:21):
Mm.
Scott (11:22):
If they buy the prints, they get high res with it.
Alora (11:26):
Okay.
Scott (11:26):
prints if they want to then print on their own or
whatever they wanna do withthose high res.
Alora (11:31):
Hmm.
Scott (11:31):
so my average proposal job is higher than my session
fee because people are buyingprints and buying digitals and
stuff like that.
But I'm not pushing, I use picktimes like automation.
Alora (11:45):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (11:46):
have their like the anniversary sale, automations,
all that stuff.
So, you know, pick time isworking for me a way, doing some
sales because I don't have thetime for it.
So,
Alora (11:57):
It's literally passive income.
You press a button and thenpeople just pay thousands of
dollars worth of prints.
Crazy.
Scott (12:03):
Yeah.
Alora (12:04):
So that's your IPS is like digital.
Scott (12:07):
in a
Alora (12:07):
like DPS.
Scott (12:08):
yeah.
pick times automation.
Just do that part for me.
If I had to, actually be gettingon a call, doing a gallery
reveal and trying to.
talk to them about a book theyprobably wouldn't want an,
Album,
Alora (12:21):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (12:22):
they're gonna be getting that for their wedding.
But there's still some profit inbooks, so I
Alora (12:26):
Like a photo book.
Scott (12:27):
I went to college for photography and I knew going
into it, if I did it full time,I'd hate photography and I love
photography, so I don't wannahate it.
So I've always worked on thisside of the industry, basically
educating doing the communityaspect and hosting podcasts, and
doing that stuff.
Alora (12:45):
You're a busy man.
Scott (12:46):
I'm a busy man.
Alora (12:47):
So busy, man.
Walk me through what SEO keywordresearch looked like for you to
be number one
Scott (12:55):
Yeah.
Alora (12:55):
as a proposal photographer.
Scott (12:58):
So the beautiful thing about a niche is it leaves your
keywords very limited, right?
So for me, once I realized, youknow, proposals are fun as heck
stressful but.
There's a workflow
Alora (13:14):
Mm.
Scott (13:14):
could follow, you know, proposal after proposal making
it very streamlined, where attimes a family session can get a
little crazy, right?
Especially when there's littlekids involved.
I love my kids, but you know,they can get crazy.
Alora (13:29):
Yes.
Yes.
Scott (13:30):
so once I realized, you know what, I like this a lot and
I could do this, I did somesearches for proposal
photography step one was seeingwhat Google suggested as
alternative searches on mylocation and New Jersey proposal
photography was the mainkeyword.
So I have keywords throughout mysite for New Jersey proposal
(13:55):
photography, New Jersey,surprise proposal photography.
Photographer, you know, likedifferentiates that are there.
But it wasn't much that I had toresearch.
It was just then putting in thework to the keywords in the
right places with it lookingnatural.
Getting it in the rightmetadata, with H ones and H twos
and h threes in the rightplaces, and bolding keywords and
(14:17):
using bullets and doing all thethings.
That need to get done in a niceway.
it's interesting'cause you couldgo to my proposal photography
landing page, you'd be like,this is not pretty.
doesn't have to be, you knowwhat it's gotta, show the work.
has to provide information atthe same time it has to speak to
the people and speak to thesearch engines.
(14:37):
It's a hard task sometimesmaking it look beautiful.
Can't get the task done,
Alora (14:42):
Ooh,
Scott (14:43):
yep.
Alora (14:44):
an on-brand girly, so this, would stress me out.
I'm like, does this, does itflow?
Does it, does the color there?
Okay.
How, okay, how does the H one, Htwo, even coincide with SEO?
Scott (14:56):
Yeah.
Alora (14:57):
that you tell me that all plays a part like in.
I don't get it.
'cause with text is text, isn'tit?
What difference does it make ifit's H one, H two, H three, you
know?
Scott (15:06):
Search engines, the first thing they look for is the H
one, which is typically thetitle of the page,
Alora (15:11):
Oh,
Scott (15:12):
So you actually want your keyword in the H one.
Alora (15:17):
oh.
Scott (15:17):
And then there's like, it can get down to the nitty gritty
where not only do they want itin the H one, but they want it
in the beginning of the H one.
So for example, new Jerseyproposal photographer, right?
Let's say that was the key wordthat you're trying to go for
right now.
you'd have to come up with aheadline that started with New
Jersey proposal photographer.
But if you're trying to thinkabout people, you now have to.
(15:38):
Find a way to fit that into an Hone that reads better.
So there's this fine line ofwhat is more important at the
time that you wanna, that youwanna on.
So, but then you have H twos,which support the H one with
similar keywords, things thatare related, then h threes that
also are part of it that, givesome additional signals to the
(16:02):
search engines that this is whatthe page is about but are less
valuable for SEO than H two andH one, but they still play a
tiny role.
Alora (16:10):
So you're saying,
Scott (16:11):
yeah.
Alora (16:12):
H one is the title, like that's what Google brings up,
and then everything else needsto support that title with
variant keywords that alsosupport the blog posts though,
because I mean, you can't keepsaying the same thing, or it
sounds weird to a human being.
Scott (16:29):
Here's an example opened another tab right now,
Alora (16:31):
Great.
Scott (16:32):
Okay.
So my H one is surprise proposalphotography.
Alora (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (16:38):
Nothing fancy, not like, you know, the greatest proposal
photographer in New Jersey.
Like, nothing fancy.
Alora (16:44):
Sure.
Scott (16:44):
headline that's going to attract people.
It's literally surprise proposalphotography.
But if you go to the site, youwouldn't know it's the H one.
It's just a headline above witha bunch of other texts and
images and stuff like that.
the first H two.
On the page, which is furtherdown below is a prize proposal
photographer in New Jersey, andit's like its own section.
(17:06):
It has more information.
It actually has my story abouthow I documented my own proposal
to my wife whatever year thatwas.
It was a long time.
2010, I proposed to my wife.
I have that as an H two.
I then have some h threes thatis like, I will document the
magic, enjoy your moment.
different like headlines thatsort of support what's
(17:27):
happening, but it's not aboutthat.
I then have an H two.
That's everything you wanted toknow about surprise proposal
photography.
And I have an H two that is howsurprise proposal photography
sessions work.
and then in H three that start aconversation.
And then the part that is likeway at the bottom is a section
that has links to the latestarticles on my blog about
(17:50):
proposal photography.
And that H two above that is allabout surprise proposal
photography.
So it's in there, the keywordsare there, but you wouldn't look
at it and be like, that's forSEO'cause it's the way I've
structured it.
Alora (18:04):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (18:05):
looks as it's got sections for people to go
through, not just searchengines.
Alora (18:11):
That is so good.
That was the Google juice I waslooking for is like, okay, how
does this sound like a persontalking?
Scott (18:18):
Yeah.
Alora (18:18):
But it's really interesting'cause it's almost
like everything that peoplesearch about, surprise proposal
photography is weaved into yourone page, right?
Scott (18:27):
a hundred
Alora (18:28):
Yeah.
Smart.
Scott (18:29):
the blog content just feeds to it.
Tell search engines.
That's the landing page rightthere.
Alora (18:35):
Okay.
One more question.
So blog posts that werestrategic on your end that you
knew people were asking aboutproposal photography.
Give me like your top three bestperforming.
Scott (18:48):
Okay, so one that's been working really well is 20 plus
locations for memorableproposals in New Jersey.
And it's not even, I haven'teven photographed at all these
locations.
Some of'em I have and I includedphotos from it.
Alora (19:04):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (19:05):
I've been to many of these locations, right?
Alora (19:08):
Okay.
Scott (19:08):
One thing I have is I live in a, the town I live in
has a lot of fantastic locationsand I would love to stop getting
leads that are two hours away.
'cause like I say, I am in thiscounty, in New Jersey.
Like if you Googled it, you knowwhere I am.
Right?
And.
Like just yesterday I got a leadfor, it's an hour and 45 minutes
(19:29):
north the guy's gonna propose ona rowboat on a giant lake, which
means I would have to rent ahuge lens.
'cause how far out in the wateris he gonna be?
At eight 30 at night?
During the summer gonna beblackout, like it's gonna be
dark, right?
There's not gonna be sun anymoreanyway, so, I am referring that
one to other photographers thatare closer.
(19:51):
But that, that's what I mean.
Like, I judge everything tofigure out, do I wanna go
through this effort?
Do I have the time to do this?
No, not that one.
Right.
Refer.
Anyway, so try to get morepeople booking in my town the
town over.
So I created a blog article,unforgettable Proposal Locations
in Freehold, New Jersey.
(20:12):
And that is starting to gettraction.
I've gotten a couple leads fromit, but not as much as so I
would say the 20 plus locationsin New Jersey has gotten me, oh
no, there's another I mentionedto you my Princeton University
story.
Okay.
So an article, I'm trying tofigure out, hold on, what the
(20:33):
title of it is.
But the article is aboutproposals at Princeton
University, and that is like themain driver,
Alora (20:43):
Wow.
Scott (20:44):
a magical surprise proposal at Princeton
University.
Alora (20:47):
Hmm.
Scott (20:47):
literally that's, that's the title.
nothing too crazy.
And I went for magical becauseagain, this couple loved, Harry
Potter.
Alora (20:56):
Yeah.
Scott (20:56):
And actually not all my couples set up a scene, but this
one, he had two of his friendsset up a beautiful scene on
campus with a flower, heart anda marry me LED sign and a whole
bunch of
Alora (21:12):
Wow.
Scott (21:13):
So the, like the BTS of.
Before the, they even got therecool.
Just'cause the University campusis gorgeous.
anyway, that one gets me tons ofleads, especially at Princeton
University.
we talked about this onImagine's podcast blogging about
(21:33):
what you want to attract,
Alora (21:34):
so, how long did this take you, like for you to
realize that this SEO wasworking?
You just kind of like.
What posted one blog, two tothree, and they're like, oh, I'm
getting inquiries from it.
How do you know what's working,what's not working, and how long
did it take?
Scott (21:48):
I didn't think about if it's gonna work until I made a
couple YouTube videos bloggedabout them.
And then leads started coming infrom them.
Alora (21:58):
Wow.
Scott (21:59):
like, so there's something here.
And I was talking to my wife andshe's like, let's try to do some
more.
So I, you know, she held ontothe kids and I wrote some more
blog articles and then it justkept coming.
So the more I do, the more leadscome.
And it's a crazy intense cycle.
Alora (22:17):
Yeah, I mean, and how do you know?
Which blog posts are bringing inleads?
I guess, do they say, oh, we sawyour blog, or is there like a
dropdown on your contact form?
Scott (22:27):
So my lead form for proposals I use Gravity Forms,
which is a plugin for WordPress.
And in it I can see which linkdrove to the form.
there's a couple ways.
One is that, I have a, field inthe form that will tell me the
URL that it came from, whetherit came from Google, whether it
(22:49):
came from GPT, whether it camefrom one, my blog articles,
whatever it is, know exactlywhat link it came from.
other is Google Analytics,right?
That can also tell you wherepeople are coming from.
But Google Analytics has gottenvery complicated over the years.
And lately I've been using.
A plugin for WordPress calledindependent analytics, which you
(23:12):
don't have to worry about GDPR,it's all anonymous.
It also integrates with formplugins including gravity forms,
so I know what pages and whatblog posts are on rise as far as
traffic goes, as well as whichare converting.
With my forms.
(23:33):
So I just look at that on aregular basis
Alora (23:37):
Okay.
So it's like a web of things,but it gives you all the data
that you need.
Scott (23:40):
Yep.
Alora (23:41):
can't even picture this personally.
So you say you're ranking onchat GPT.
Do you know how that happened oris it just directly correlated
with SEO?
Like how is that going?
Scott (23:50):
Right.
I don't think that.
I know there's people coming upwith terminologies for like
Alora (23:56):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (23:56):
I don't think there's much to it other than optimize
your site search engines first.
Alora (24:03):
Mm-hmm.
Scott (24:04):
The AI software, they are all utilizing engines to find
the content that they're goingto talk about, right?
It is up to the photographer todecide am I blocking GPTs from
consuming my site and utilizingmy site because are they gonna
scrape my photos?
(24:24):
Yeah.
Do I wanna show up when they arelike chat.
GPT is part of Bing.
Go Gemini is part of Google now.
Like they're deeply integrated.
If you wanna show up in searchengines when the AI results are
giving you.
You have to make your decisionnow, two years ago, I want my
stuff consumed by these gpt?
(24:47):
And if you don't, if you don'tcare, I mean, I don't want my
photos consumed and utilized, atthe same time, I want my site to
show up.
I want to be recommended.
Alora (24:58):
Yeah.
Scott (24:59):
really tough call.
if you are a photographer on theside where you're saying, Nope,
stay away from my photos.
All right, but you're not gonnashow up in the AI results.
It's not gonna happen.
Alora (25:10):
How do you do that?
You just do, you write GPTAletter and say, don't share my
information?
Like how do we have control overwhat's on the internet?
Scott (25:17):
Yeah.
So if you're in WordPress,there's a plugin you can
install.
There's multiple that are likeGPT blockers.
Alora (25:23):
Oh.
Scott (25:23):
a, there's a file called robots txt file that every
website has, whether you know itor not.
And there's like a little scriptyou can put into that.
And on the WordPress side,there's a simple plugin you can
install.
I don't know if like theSquarespaces and Wix and all
those of the world.
Have an option for it, but I'massuming at some point if they
(25:44):
don't now they will have anoption to block.
Alora (25:46):
Okay.
Scott (25:47):
it's actually very easy to block at the end of the day.
It's just, you've gotta knowwhat to look for to do it.
the thing is, you gotta keep inmind that Google, for example,
is looking at your website's,basically, right?
It's not looking at your imageswhen it sees your image, it's
looking at the alt text.
For your image.
Alora (26:05):
Oh.
Scott (26:06):
'Cause it doesn't see the image, it just sees HTML,
whereas Chachi Pates, theClaudes, the Geminis, not only
are they looking at your site,they're looking at the images.
So when I talk about a magicalsurprise proposal at Princeton
University, It sees the text onthe site, it also sees the photo
of a proposal happening on thecampus of Princeton.
(26:27):
It recognizes,'cause it knowswhat Princeton University looks
like.
'cause it's crawled PrincetonUniversity already.
Right.
So it's in a way than yourtypical search engine algorithm.
impressive all at the same time.
Alora (26:42):
Yes, it is.
What is your opinion on it?
Do you feel like, like where youstand, not necessarily what
everybody else should do, butlike, personally you, you're
like, I'm gonna keep it, youknow, available for surge in
chat GBT, or just knowing thatthere is a risk involved because
Jet GBT can also take yourimages.
does it do that?
(27:03):
Does chat GPT take your imagesat all and like use them for
anything?
Like what is the risk I guess,of being chat?
GPT searchable?
Scott (27:11):
We don't know if they're just taking images when they.
Are crawling your website andstuff.
we don't know for certain, butthere is that risk that they are
doing that.
Just today, I think in the newsthe
Alora (27:24):
my.
Scott (27:25):
Museum, now we're talking Holocaust.
We're here.
Strange shift for, for thispodcast.
But they just sent a legalletter to meta saying Stop using
our photos of Holocaustsurvivors to train your ai.
they found out that it washappening.
Alora (27:41):
How did
Scott (27:42):
You never know.
Alora (27:44):
nothing is safe.
Scott (27:45):
I guess people were typing in a prompt and it was
coming out exactly like theseHolocaust photos.
So it's happening.
It's, there's no way to know.
It's just up to eachphotographer to decide, do I
wanna block myself completely?
you can block just the imageaspect, but then that's gonna
also impact your search.
(28:06):
For where you would show, soit's you, you just have to make
the decision for yourself atthat point.
It's the world we live in now,it's crazy.
Alora (28:15):
is absolutely terrifying.
Scott (28:17):
Yeah.
Alora (28:18):
On a high note concerning like SEO and keyword and
research and all the things thatwe talked about today, because
I, I think it's reallyincredible that you can use SEO.
To niche down and still be assuccessful as a wedding
photographer.
You know what I mean?
Like as a surprise photographer,as any niche that to decide
Scott (28:35):
Yeah.
Alora (28:35):
what is the first thing that they need to do if they
just need to walk away withsomething, they need something
to do after this, because youtaught a lot about the H tags,
keywords, the blog posts.
What do they need to do rightnow to get started before they
do anything else?
Scott (28:50):
If you have an idea for what you would want a niche down
to.
Map out the processes first,right before you, like, go all
in, map it out, see how easy itis to replicate without driving
yourself.
Insane, right?
You wanna make sure that it isniche, that it's consuming the
(29:10):
amount of time that you wantedto consume, right?
When I first started doingproposals, just to give you an
example.
When I was just figuring out myprocesses, it probably took me
about four to five hours to plana proposal with the client.
Now it, I'm done in like anhour.
You know, it's just a, you gottafigure it out and make sure can
be replicated.
So figure that part out and thensee where your competition is,
(29:32):
if you have any, if you don'thave any you could go to Google
Ads and see how many people aresearching.
using the Google keywordplanner.
Figure out how many people areactually searching for the
keyword.
Is it worth pursuing that?
build up your referral listahead of time because as a niche
photographer you're doing this,so that you have more control in
a way of your time, figuring outwho you can refer to.
(29:54):
And people that you're friendswith, not just anybody.
Right.
The photography industry, as youknow, is a very relationship
driven, community drivenindustry.
And if you haven't made friendswith photographers in your area,
what are you waiting for?
Right?
So that's important to have thatlist ready to go as well.
(30:14):
And I had mine and then it grewover the years.
So.
Alora (30:18):
Yeah.
Scott (30:18):
I would
Alora (30:19):
That's amazing.
Scott (30:19):
yeah, that's a good way to get started.
Alora (30:21):
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Scott, forcoming on and just sharing your
wealth of knowledge and justshowing what's possible.
Scott (30:27):
Mm-hmm.
Alora (30:28):
Because I just know a lot of people probably think they
have to do all of the things,photograph all the events to
make ends meet,
Scott (30:35):
Yeah.
Alora (30:35):
and you could just be good at one thing and then
eventually turn everybody awaybecause you have so many
inquiries.
Like that is so inspiring.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Tell everybody how they can findyou and yeah, work with you.
Scott (30:51):
Yeah, so if you wanna check out my website or where I
am on socials, I'm not a big fanof social media, but I'm there
'cause we have to be.
Alora (30:57):
Yeah.
Scott (30:58):
It's W-Y-D-E-N.
But I also run the ImagineCommunity, and also host our
podcast called Workflows.
Alora (31:06):
Well, that was it for today's episode.
I hope you guys got so much outof this SEO masterclass and see
you guys next week.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com