September 25, 2023 • 34 mins
Unpopular opinion alert! We need to talk about pre-nups! So, this week we're shifting gears this week from flowers and wedding cakes to the more contentious topic of prenuptial agreements. Our guest, Leah Weinberg, is a seasoned wedding planner turned attorney who has learned one thing or two about the controversy surrounding prenups. Leah's unique journey from creating fairy-tale nuptials to drafting legally binding contracts offers a fresh perspective on the importance of discussing financial matters before tying the knot.
We're dissecting the intricacies of prenuptial agreements and debunking a few myths along the way. From assets allocation to infidelity clauses, nothing is off the table in our candid conversation. We'll also discuss why both parties should have separate attorneys when drafting a prenup and the potential implications if they don't.
Leah will guide us through the emotional side of getting a prenuptial agreement and how to start open and honest talks about money, religion, and future children. Planner's tip: listen to this episode with your partner if you can! It will help make the subject feel a bit less taboo & touchy).
Lastly, Leah brings in her decade-long experience in the wedding industry to discuss the potential roadblocks couples may face when deciding on a prenuptial agreement. Drawing from her vast experience, Leah offers practical advice on how to navigate these sensitive topics with grace and understanding. It's a must-listen episode packed with valuable insights that will undoubtedly be beneficial for couples planning not just their big day, but their future together.
Find Leah on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/theleahweinberg/
https://www.instagram.com/oduberglaw/
https://www.instagram.com/legallyset/
Online at:
https://legallyset.com/
https://www.oduberg.com/
Places to go - People to see:
Kelly's Site: http://www.kellymcwilliams.com
Kelly's Blog: https://www.kellymcwilliams.com/blog
Instagram: @kellyamcwilliams
About Kelly:
Kelly knows how incredible a well planned wedding can be. Every moment counts and every decision plays a part. Wedding planning should be fun and as easy to do as possible. Besides planning weddings, Kelly travels the globe as an industry speaker. Kelly is a Martha Stewart Top Wedding Planner & this podcast won Brides magazine and WeddingWire's best podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to this Versus that making wedding
decisions with Kelly McWilliams.
This podcast is for you ifyou're making a wedding decision
and want to know what toconsider before saying I do to
all the things that will makeyour wedding experience a great
one.
I'm your host, kelly McWilliams, and I'm so glad to be a part
(00:30):
of your wedding planning journey.
In each episode, you can counton me and my expert wedding
co-hosts to give you everythingit takes to make the best
decisions for the wedding thatyou're dreaming of.
My guess is half the peoplewill listen to this episode.
Half the people that came on tolisten to whatever episode we
(00:52):
were putting out today were like, ooh, prenuptes.
I don't want to listen to that.
But if you are listeningclearly you are.
If you're hearing my voiceright now, you're going to feel
even better, because I did Aftertalking to Leah about all of
this.
I feel so much better aboutprenuptes and I really I think
(01:14):
it was like the whole mindsetlike, oh really, when you look
at it this way.
So Leah is Weinberg is who wehave on this episode talking us
through why you should or shouldnot have her prenup for today's
and all of those things.
To be honest with you, I knewnothing about prenuptes before
(01:37):
this, so in this episode you'rejust going to hear me asking a
lot of questions, likely thesame ones that you would be
asking.
Let me go ahead and tell you alittle bit about Leah.
Like I said, she's already beenon the show before and she's
got a great book that we talkedabout on the show, but she's the
co-founder of Odeberg Law andco-owner of the contract
(02:00):
template shop called LegallySaid.
She's an attorney, a recoveringwedding planner and the author
of the wedding roller coaster.
After nearly a decade in thewedding industry as the owner of
ColourPop events, a New YorkCity-based wedding planning
company, leah is returning toher roots as an attorney to
(02:22):
assist her former colleagues inthe event industry, along with
other entrepreneurs and businessowners.
Her work and insights have beenpublished online and in print
with Vogue, the New York Times,people, cnn, cnbc, bravo, martha
Stewart, the Knot and manyothers.
She's a wedding pro educatorwith the Knot and WeddingWire
(02:44):
since 2020 and travelsthroughout the country sharing
her insights with her peersregionally as well as at
national conferences such as AltSummit, nace and the special
event.
I've known Leah for years.
She's someone that I would 100%turn to for any kind of wedding
business legal advice andbecause she is an actual
(03:07):
attorney, I feel really goodthat we have her on this episode
to talk to us all aboutpre-nups.
It's a really good episode, guys.
You're going to feel betterabout it and then maybe have to
talk to your partner about itand be like you know what.
I think you should listen tothis.
Maybe this is something that weshould consider.
Okay, let's get Leah, my friendLeah on the line.
(03:29):
Okay, so we're going to talkabout pre-nups.
Do you get to do this often?
Do you talk about?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
pre-nups a lot.
I don't.
I think it's.
Actually it comes up a goodamount of times in terms of my
friends in the wedding industryneeding somebody to refer their
clients to.
So it comes up in that context.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
But yeah, I feel like I or that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's what they say I feel like I don't get enough
chances to talk about it and Ihave maybe some controversial
opinions on the subject.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I have to tell you, when you said, hey, kyle, let's
do an episode on this, I waslike, oh my gosh, I mean, girl,
I never would have thought of it, like it never would have even
popped in my mind, because we'realways thinking like, oh, the
happy things.
And maybe you're going to tellme this is a happy thing, so I'm
going to lean on you as anexpert.
Oh, so, let me do this.
(04:23):
So you've been on the showbefore, so everyone knows you,
but still, maybe just give alittle inkling into why we're
talking to a wedding expert whoabsolutely does know about legal
.
Just, we'll do that first andthen we'll talk about pre-nups
and all that.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, so since people last saw me or heard me on the
show, I have shut down mywedding planning company as of
the end of 2022 and started alaw firm with a friend of mine
at the beginning of 2023.
And so I was an attorney beforebeing a wedding planner.
I was a wedding planner for abit and now I have gone back to
being an attorney full time.
So I have the legal background,but I also have, like, actual
(05:00):
experience as a wedding plannerworking with clients for 10
years.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, and guys, so you know, like Leah's, who I would
turn to, like she's my and herwedding, her legal, what are you
?
A firm?
Yeah, a law firm, okay, herfirm.
Really, their core is weddingpeople.
So when I and it's great,because she was in the business,
(05:27):
like she was a wedding plannerand she knows all things, so
this is great, great, greatcontent for you to like, know
and absorb and be like okay,she's legit.
She's just not just somewedding planner who had a bunch
of people who wanted to knowabout prenuptes.
Okay, so to make sure everyone'son the same page, can you
(05:49):
explain exactly what a prenuptis and what it's meant for?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, so a prenupt is short for a prenuptial agreement
.
It is a contract that hasentered into between the people
who are getting married, andwhat it does is.
It essentially sets forth theplan for what happens when the
marriage ends and how assetswill be divided and who has
(06:18):
access to what and how thingsare going to be split up, in
order to essentially saveyourself from a lot of back and
forth and potential fightingwhen things, if things, don't
work out.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay, how many people would you say, best guess,
actually get pre-nups?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Probably not many.
I think there is this idea thatpre-nups are reserved for high
net worth individuals, so peoplethat are coming into the
marriage with a lot of assets ormaybe they are set to inherit a
lot of money or assets at acertain period of time.
So people think, oh, only if Ihave a significant amount of
(07:04):
money do I really need to worryabout it.
I don't think that is the case.
So I'm happy to be here todayso we can kind of talk through
why any most people should bedoing entering into pre-nups?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, because I'll tell you, I thought exactly the
same thing, but maybe it'seasier and better.
Even if you're both startingout, we're not those people that
we thought needed them.
This is for everyone, acrossthe board, it is not just for
people who have huge assets andthings like that high wealth and
(07:38):
across the board, it could be agood thing for everyone.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and I think people should look at it.
I hate to make it sound like abusiness transaction, but it is
kind of, when I talk to ourclients about when they go into
business with people, they needto have a contract that outlines
that relationship.
I often say think of it kind ofas a pre-nup for your business
and so, on the flip side of that, think of this as like a
(08:05):
partnership agreement for yourmarriage almost.
I mean, divorce rates are veryhigh.
People don't go into a marriagehoping that it's going to end
or really anticipating that it'sgoing to end, but there's no
harm in sort of planning forwhat that end might look like.
I always say that the two peoplethat are getting married are
(08:29):
not the same two people who aregoing to ultimately decide to
end that marriage.
You are going to be differentpeople and so a lot of people
will say, well, I'm gettingmarried, I would never try to
take my spouse's assets or Iwould never want to request
alimony or spousal support orsomething like that.
And that is what you say whenthe two of you are happy and
(08:53):
you're getting married andyou're making this decision
together.
But you're not those people ifthings don't work out and things
are coming to an end.
So I always say it's helpful toplan for something like that at
the beginning, when everybodyis more level headed, a little
bit less emotional, on sort ofthe same page, as opposed to
(09:13):
waiting until things have gonewrong, because then you're
definitely not going to be onthe same page.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, and I have to wonder if sometimes, when people
put this into place, if theyhave some kind of relief in
knowing, hey, that's one, youknow, like we did this together,
we made these decisionstogether and we can feel good
about it.
And you know, I have to wonder,is that sometimes a case where
people come in together going,hey, we just want to put this,
(09:41):
these precautionary acts oragreements in place?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be emotional, it can just be
very practical.
And so if you think about itthat way and don't think about
it, it's not accusatory.
Like saying to your partner Iwould like to enter into a
prenup.
It's not accusatory saying, oh,you're going to come, try to
steal my money or something likethat.
Or, like you know, marry me andget divorced and then come
(10:05):
after my money.
It's not accusatory.
We need to sort of take theemotion out of it and just
understand that it's actually avery sort of healthy and
thoughtful and mature decisionto make as people getting
married.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at it really, if you think
about it, it could be somethingas simple as, like you know, you
think about what?
Like healthcare.
You're getting married, are yougoing to do a family plan, or
are you keeping your healthinsurance separate with your
employer?
And I'm going to do mine?
You have to make that decisionExactly, so why would that be
any different?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, there's so many decisions Like again, like even
just how are we handling thebank account, kind of thing?
Are we commingling money?
Are we keeping things separate?
Like all of this is just, it'sjust about good planning and
just taking away.
Like by doing this advancedplanning, you're removing the
potential for these obstaclesand issues to arise in the
future.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You know what that makes me think of?
Like I don't know that I'veever seen a list of things that
you should do like that.
I mean just like, not, just no,I'm going off and I change it
in here.
But you know, like here are thenot fun parts of wedding
planning that really need to getdone.
(11:22):
You know, because I mean you goto like I'm gonna say for
Catholic, you go through thewhole thing with the what are
the?
Why am I losing my words?
What's that called when youpre-canna?
Yes, you know, and they set youup to make sure you're actually
good to like get married andall that stuff.
But also, like I feel like thereshould be and there probably is
one somewhere but somethingthat says here are the not
(11:45):
wedding related decisions thatyou need to put in place, or you
should consider and haveconversations on outside of the
wedding, wedding like healthinsurance and banking and
pre-nups and things like thatYep, right, yes, exactly, okay,
so could you get on that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, we'llfind someone to do it, okay.
(12:13):
So, other than pre-nups and I'mgonna, we're gonna go back to
pre-nups Are there any otherlegal documents that you know of
that people should beconsidering for before we get
married, or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Pre-wedding.
I think this tends to cover it.
I will say the disclaimer hereis that state laws are very
different in terms of how theytreat like community property
and stuff like that.
I'm sure people who live inCalifornia know a lot about the
community, how communityproperty works there.
So I'm always advising peoplelike make sure you're talking to
(12:50):
an attorney to understand, like, if your pre-nup can override
certain state laws or how it canbe drafted to interact with
state laws.
I just wanna throw that outthere that that's definitely
something that people need tolook into.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, great.
Okay, now that we've gotten thebaseline done, I think everyone
understands what a pre-nup is.
Actually, I feel like we wannago a little bit further on it.
Sorry, now I'm thinking what isactually in a pre-nup Like?
What are the different?
Like?
I imagine it's several pageslong.
(13:27):
What are some of the thingsthat it details out?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, the main thing that it's going to deal with is
assets.
So whatever like your existingassets are, it's going to say
what the plan is for thoseassets upon divorce.
It's going to talk about whathappens to assets that are
(13:49):
accrued and obtained during themarriage.
What happens to those things.
It could talk about things likeit might distinguish between
money earned from a job versusinheritance that comes in and
how that is handled.
If somebody is a business owneror intends to be a business
owner, that's actually a reallybig thing.
(14:10):
To just make sure is clear that, like if the business just
belongs to one of the partnersand if they get divorced, the
other person does or does nothave any ongoing interest in the
business.
So it's talking about that.
And then in some cases andthese are the things you hear
about in some of the highprofile like celebrity cases are
these closet basicallyinfidelity clauses and so almost
(14:35):
adding some kind of penalty ifthe marriage dissolves because
of some kind of infidelity andlike things.
Like the way that things getresolved is different if you
decide to get divorced becauseone of the partners was
unfaithful.
So I think.
I want to say, and I don'tremember we might have to fact
(14:55):
check this but I think Iremember the first time JLo and
Ben Affleck were married.
I think I remember hearing thatthey had like an infidelity
clause in there, prenup.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Wait, they got married, weren't they married?
I don't think they got married.
I think wasn't that the onewith the pink diamond, and then
they were gonna get married, andthen they did it, I thought
they did.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I don't know.
We can scrap the whole, we canscrap the example, but we can
keep it.
Lance will keep in the partabout there, sometimes our
infidelity.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I know what's gonna happen.
Everyone's gonna go Google itreal quick, but I I don't know.
That's a good trivia question.
I might post that on theInstagram later.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes, but at some point in the past there was some
high-profile celebrity couplethat had an infidelity clause in
their premium.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Okay, okay, so that is something.
Is that something that isalways in there, or no?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
No, no, no, okay, no and one other kind of basic
piece of information that Ithink just helps from a
practical Understanding is thatwhen entering into a prenup,
each person needs to have theirown attorney.
So one attorney, becausetechnically you have technically
you do have conflictinginterests, and so each person
(16:13):
should be represented by theirown counsel.
Now, depending on, maybe, howcontentious the the prenup is to
begin with, if both parties arelike in total agreement and
fine, like I'll admit, myhusband and I signed a prenup
when we got married.
I at the time was working in afirm and a divorce attorney had
(16:34):
office space in our firm and Ihad a relationship with him.
So it was like, hey, my husbandand I want to do a prenup.
He's like great, I canrepresent you.
Here's who I recommend for yourhusband.
So in a lot of cases, divorceattorneys sort of have their
kind of go-to person for thesemore amicable Preenups, because
it was just like but technicallyyou do need to be represented
(16:56):
by two separate attorneys atdifferent firms because you have
Just by nature, conflictinginterests.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I feel like you've educated me so much so far and
it's been like 10 minutes.
I appreciate I I don'tobviously don't have a prenup,
but I didn't.
I didn't know all of thiseither.
And you know, just as anexample, kelly and I my
husband's name is Kelly Did Itell you that that's so
confusing?
Yeah, it was confused.
(17:26):
Well, it's still some time.
Okay, no, whole, nother podcastepisode, but anyway.
So we've been married for 25years and the difference between
where we are now from where westarted is Strikingly different.
Like could not be any moreopposite.
So not there were anywhere neargetting divorced.
(17:47):
We're very happily marriedafter 25 years.
But if that was the case, ifsomething did happen and there
was we would not be in the samelike it would be so different,
you know, because we had nothingthen.
Yeah, no, but we didn't havekids, we didn't have a business.
But things did change and Iwould, I would think that we
(18:11):
would, you know it, would admitit.
Like I said, under nocircumstance are we anywhere
near getting a divorce.
We're very happily married, butI can see how something like
that would be good to have donein the beginning and not have to
be like something that wasweighing on anyone's shoulders,
should you know.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And for the record you can do them.
You can enter into basicallythe same type of agreement once
you're married to.
Yeah, you can alwaysPre-nuptial I think it's called
a post-nup, it's like I thinkit's called a post-nuptial.
Oh yeah, but you can still setout the same Terms and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yes, so like, maybe, like, if something does change
and you both are like, okay, I'mopening a business now and I
think we need to like separatethings and put things in place,
yeah, or maybe it could be thatyou're opening up a business and
now you have partners and theyown some of the business, so
that there could be lots ofdifferent things that come to
play, that, yeah, absolutely youneed to consider that yeah, and
(19:12):
it could be something.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I mean it would be great like if society to sort of
work this into the naturaldiscussion, like when you go to
do like your Wills and stuff.
I know a lot of people kind ofput that off.
But like, this is somethinghonestly that, like when you go
and take care of all that stuff,this could be something just
documentation that you do atthat point too.
Sure, sure, it doesn't have tobe a big deal.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It feels so much easier.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big deal.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's okay to talk about guys.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about pre-nup versus no
pre-nup.
So I think, probably.
Again, I don't have a lot ofinformation to give on this, so
I'm leaning on you.
Sorry, you're doing all thetalking, but I'm happy to ask
all the questions, okay, solet's talk first about the pros
(19:58):
to a prenuptial or post.
Yeah, post nuptials that whatwe decided to call it.
Yeah, okay, so what do you gotfor us?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, and the pros are I mean, the pros are number
one just a little bit of peaceof mind.
Like you said, it just givesyou peace of mind that it's not
gonna be weighing on you, youdon't have to worry about it.
You've already sort ofpre-agreed as to what's gonna
happen and then just thinkingabout what it, if you do end up
getting Divorce, it's just gonnasave you so much time and
(20:28):
energy and probably playingfrankly, money in legal fees,
not having like a ridiculouslyLong, drawn-out divorce process.
So it's gonna make things.
It's gonna feel like it's gonnalighten your load a little bit
during the marriage and then,okay, if the marriage comes to
an end, it's just gonna helpmake that a lot more Seamless.
(20:49):
Like it's gonna already beemotional and messy and hard and
just taking this off the tableand not having to worry about
you know how we're gonna dividethings up.
You know it's it's gonna bemake that part smoother.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Can I ask you questions?
Can they one?
Can they get changed afterthey're?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
done.
Yeah, absolutely, as long asboth parties agree.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yes, absolutely Okay okay, I Guess I kind of answers
the second part too.
Yeah, okay, so they can bechanged after.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, afterwards, as long as everyone comes to the
table, like when your life ischanged completely and it no
longer makes sense to do, yeah,something one way, yeah and what
you mentioned to you, like wekind of said, goes into this
thinking of like oh, I don'tneed a prenup because I don't
have a lot of assets or moneykind of coming into this.
But you're sort of the perfectexample of how like things
(21:42):
change over the course of amarriage.
And first of all,congratulations on 25 years.
That's absolutely amazing.
But yeah, you said it yourselflike so much has changed your
Careers, your income level, likeyou've got kids, everything has
changed, and so there's ways toyou know you think you don't
need it at the time, but itwould be.
(22:02):
It's gonna be very helpful downthe road.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely would do.
Prenuptials could they have anyeffect on?
On like Kids, like, even iflike kids aren't part of our
kids, part of prenuptials?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No.
Okay so that's a wholedifferent Custody and everything
is going to yes, Custody isgoing to be something completely
separate from the prenuptialagreement.
That's just going to deal withlike ask, like money, personal
property, tangible property,businesses, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Okay.
So you can tell me this hasnothing to do with one with the
other, but it's making me think.
So let's say you have aprenuptial and you start at the
beginning like we're gettingmarried, let's go, we're going
to figure out health insurance,we're going to figure out
banking, we're going to put ourprenuptial, we're going to get
all that done.
And then it's five years laterand now you've got kids and you
(23:07):
realize that Everything would bedifferent because you have kids
.
So then in that case you justchange the prenuptial or you
don't do any kind of change theprenuptial because you have kids
.
Like your assets should besplit differently because you
know that one of you is going totake custody, or something like
(23:30):
that.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, so the court?
So that's what.
You don't really know who'sgoing to end up with custody in
that case, and that's sort ofwhy you can't prepare for that
and like share that and splitthe assets.
That's why, when you do go tofamily court for that type of
thing and whoever gets custodyand depending on that, then they
might require the other partnerto pay for.
(23:52):
That's how child support getsdivvied up to is based on who's
got custody and their incomelevel and everything like that.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
What kind of attorney does prenuptials Is it?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
a divorce attorney yeah, divorce attorney, or a
family law attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, can we call it family law?
That sounds better.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, a family law attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Are they two different things?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It's two different sort of specialties, like they
have.
Oh, it is.
Yeah, the knowledge base isdifferent, but generally people
that practice family law aregoing to cover that whole
spectrum of things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay, it just sounds based on family.
Obviously, I'm a weddingplanner who does things of like
happy things.
Okay, are there any cons tohaving a prenupt?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I think, just given how society views prenupts, it
could be.
Bringing it up can becontroversial and it could start
a whole thing.
I remember when we as a kidwatching TV shows and stuff
whenever prenupts would come up,the context would always be
that one party asks for aprenupt and it's like the
(25:05):
parents who are wanting itbecause they think the other
person who's marrying theirchild wants to steal their money
, and then the person who'spresented the prenupt like
doesn't want to sign it.
And then it's sort of thisweird ultimatum thing.
Like I feel like there's somany movie and TV storylines
around prenupts being terrible.
That's why we think they'reterrible.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
That was my next question because so often when
we're planning with theirclients, we're planning with the
whole family, like that's it isin my case anyway.
I don't know that that's thecase with you, know everyone.
But when this does come up, Itend to hear that, like from one
side of the couple, either youknow one of the fiance's that
(25:52):
the other person's family wantsparents wanting to happen.
Nobody can force anyone into aprenupt, am I right, like you?
Just you can just not do it andnot get married, right?
Or yeah, right, okay, okay, allright, good to know, good to
know Anything else about eitherof these that we should like be
(26:16):
weighing, like, like consideringor weighing on.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I just think it's an overall kind of how we view how
we view them and I'm glad we'rehaving this conversation because
hopefully this will take getforward progress of not thinking
of prenupts in this really badway and just thinking that, like
I said at the beginning,thinking of as like the mature
thing to do, the thoughtfulthing to do, just just kind of
(26:41):
like how they always say start,if you decide to go to couples
counseling, start that whenthings are good and don't just
do it when things are bad.
And so it's sort of likeprepare for your future when
things are good.
It's the same thing of likedoing a will Nobody really wants
to think about when they'regoing to die, but if you don't
(27:02):
have your affairs in order, forthe people that survive you,
it's going to be an absolutemess.
And so it's kind of the samething like with a divorce If you
don't have the affairs in order, it's going to be kind of a
mess.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I feel like someone just really needs to put
that PDF together that sayshere's the list of all the
things.
The will the bank.
What else did we talk about?
Insurance, the will bankaccounts, yep and prenupt yeah,
tools, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I do talk about it in my book.
Like I do talk about it alittle bit in my books these
kind of general conversationsit's not like a nice neat PDF
resource, but I definitely talkabout like there are these
uncomfortable conversations thatyou're going to have, I mean,
outside of this talk.
I think those other questionsinvolve religion and children,
like to have kids, to not havekids, just sort of religion
(27:52):
separately, but like if we dohave kids, then how are we
raising them religion-wise?
Like these are all things thatpeople need to talk about.
Yeah, let's, let's refresheverybody on your book.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I think that's actually a really good idea.
I should have thought oh, Ishould bring that up now because
that actually is a perfectperfect space to go to, so tell
us about the book again.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And we have a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I know we have a whole episode on it, but you
know like well, we talk about itin the episode, so go ahead,
give us a little juice I spentmy time during the pandemic
writing a book.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It is called the Wedding Roller Coaster.
It came out in April of 2001and it deals with the emotional
side of planning a wedding, andso I felt like there's a ton of
how-to books out there, like howto actually plan the wedding,
like when to send or save thedates, fun ways to ask members
of your people to be yourmembers of your wedding party,
(28:46):
like all that stuff.
But there wasn't anything thattalked about like ooh, how do we
have these really uncomfortableconversations about money with
our families if they're payingfor it?
Or how do we have theseuncomfortable conversations with
each other when we're trying tolike break down what does
marriage mean and what kind ofbaggage am I bringing from past
relationships and things likethat.
(29:07):
And so there is talk in thereabout having prenups I support.
In the book I talk about howI'm a fan of prenups and it
talks about deciding how you'regonna handle money.
Another one this is actually canbe controversial is if
somebody's changing, ifsomebody's taking the other
person's last name and if theydecide not to do that, and then
(29:27):
there might be some.
I have heard from friends thatthere is has been friction over
somebody's decision not to taketheir partner's last name, and
so all of this is stuff.
To just get it, I get it out onthe table before you walk down
the aisle.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, and I think we talked about this in that
episode.
It was a long, that was a longtime ago.
That was a long time ago.
But those conversations I feellike should be had with your
fiance first, separately fromfamily, so that you can kind of
be on the same page before andthen every one else is involved
(30:10):
when possible.
Sometimes parents are ahead ofyou, but your book can help
people to get ahead of that, sowe'll make sure there's a link
in the show notes to your bookas well.
I know that we can give that aname as well, I'm sure right.
(30:30):
Yeah, I feel like it's fromreading before Okay, great, it
was so perfect.
I actually feel so much betterabout pre-nup style because,
just like you and, I think,everyone listening, it just
seemed like such a negativething.
But it's really not.
When you think about it's alongthe same vein as we gotta make
(30:51):
decisions on the insurance, wegotta make decisions on in the
future, a will and banking.
If we just put it all on thatsame level, then really it's not
so bad.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know and when you think, and yeah, I think my the
point that I like to conveybecause I mentioned this before
and I just kinda wanna likeleave on this note which is just
this idea that the people whoentered into the marriage,
you're not those same peoplewhen the marriage comes to a
close.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And so like You're not in good frame of mind.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, you're just not those same people.
So whatever somebody'sintentions were on the day that
you got married, like thoseintentions can change and it's
gonna be highly emotionallycharged and people are probably
not making the best decisions,they're not making the nicest
decisions, and so when you justkind of keep that in mind, like
deciding now, when you are bothjust being able to think through
(31:44):
everything clear-headed, isjust gonna be so much more
helpful than having to fightthrough all of that later on.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, oh, thank you for coming in the show Of course
, and for something that Ithought was gonna be a little
bit contentious, but it's not.
I mean, I'm smiling.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You know, it's all about the mindset, it's all how
we feel it really is.
It really is, it really is.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And just hearing from someone who actually knows and
to make it seem like I know it'snot gonna be a simple process,
but if you can actually sit downand therapy therapy was the
thing that you mentioned thatshould also be on that page of
people like, of things to do,like decide to go to therapy
from the beginning while thingsare in good shape, and then they
(32:29):
stay in good shape.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, and then you have the tool.
You have the tool, you'relearning the tools to keep
things in good shape yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yes, yeah, this was so good.
Yeah, thank you, friend.
Of course, it was good to seeyou and you're coming back very
soon.
Yes, we have a whole nothertopic.
Yes, that's.
Is it heavier than this one?
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think it's heavy.
I think I would say it'sheavier, yeah, it's heavier,
it's heavier, it's heavier.
But I think that's why we didthis one first, so we can make
sure our boy loves you even more.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Okay, girl, I'll talk to you soon.
Sounds good.
Thank you, Bye.
I'm so glad to be able to sharemy wedding experiences and
expertise with you, and that myco-hosts are so giving it theirs
.
We truly do want you to havethe best time at your wedding,
and our hope is that thispodcast is helping you to make
your engagement time whileplanning your wedding that much
(33:23):
easier.
May I ask a favor of you?
If this is the case, would youjust take a moment to leave a
review of this podcast on yourlistening platform?
It helps people just like youto find the podcast and to also
find out their answer so theycan make decisions.
I would also absolutely lovefor you to give this versus that
podcast a shout out on yoursocial media.
(33:46):
You can find us at this versusthat wedding podcast on
Instagram, and if you'reinterested in getting a chance
to do this podcast on Instagramand if you would like me to help
you with a specific question, awedding decision, please by all
means ask.
Send me a DM.
I would love to hear from youand maybe, just maybe even have
(34:07):
you as a wedding cast on afuture episode.
How fun, thank you.
Hello and welcome to this Versus that making wedding
decisions with Kelly McWilliams.
This podcast is for you ifyou're making a wedding decision
and want to know what toconsider before saying I do to
all the things that will makeyour wedding experience a great
one.
I'm your host, kelly McWilliams, and I'm so glad to be a part
(00:30):
of your wedding planning journey.
In each episode, you can counton me and my expert wedding
co-hosts to give you everythingit takes to make the best
decisions for the wedding thatyou're dreaming of.
My guess is half the peoplewill listen to this episode.
Half the people that came on tolisten to whatever episode we
(00:52):
were putting out today were like, ooh, prenuptes.
I don't want to listen to that.
But if you are listeningclearly you are.
If you're hearing my voiceright now, you're going to feel
even better, because I did Aftertalking to Leah about all of
this.
I feel so much better aboutprenuptes and I really I think
(01:14):
it was like the whole mindsetlike, oh really, when you look
at it this way.
So Leah is Weinberg is who wehave on this episode talking us
through why you should or shouldnot have her prenup for today's
and all of those things.
To be honest with you, I knewnothing about prenuptes before
(01:37):
this, so in this episode you'rejust going to hear me asking a
lot of questions, likely thesame ones that you would be
asking.
Let me go ahead and tell you alittle bit about Leah.
Like I said, she's already beenon the show before and she's
got a great book that we talkedabout on the show, but she's the
co-founder of Odeberg Law andco-owner of the contract
(02:00):
template shop called LegallySaid.
She's an attorney, a recoveringwedding planner and the author
of the wedding roller coaster.
After nearly a decade in thewedding industry as the owner of
ColourPop events, a New YorkCity-based wedding planning
company, leah is returning toher roots as an attorney to
(02:22):
assist her former colleagues inthe event industry, along with
other entrepreneurs and businessowners.
Her work and insights have beenpublished online and in print
with Vogue, the New York Times,people, cnn, cnbc, bravo, martha
Stewart, the Knot and manyothers.
She's a wedding pro educatorwith the Knot and WeddingWire
(02:44):
since 2020 and travelsthroughout the country sharing
her insights with her peersregionally as well as at
national conferences such as AltSummit, nace and the special
event.
I've known Leah for years.
She's someone that I would 100%turn to for any kind of wedding
business legal advice andbecause she is an actual
(03:07):
attorney, I feel really goodthat we have her on this episode
to talk to us all aboutpre-nups.
It's a really good episode, guys.
You're going to feel betterabout it and then maybe have to
talk to your partner about itand be like you know what.
I think you should listen tothis.
Maybe this is something that weshould consider.
Okay, let's get Leah, my friendLeah on the line.
(03:29):
Okay, so we're going to talkabout pre-nups.
Do you get to do this often?
Do you talk about?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
pre-nups a lot.
I don't.
I think it's.
Actually it comes up a goodamount of times in terms of my
friends in the wedding industryneeding somebody to refer their
clients to.
So it comes up in that context.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
But yeah, I feel like I or that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's what they say I feel like I don't get enough
chances to talk about it and Ihave maybe some controversial
opinions on the subject.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I have to tell you, when you said, hey, kyle, let's
do an episode on this, I waslike, oh my gosh, I mean, girl,
I never would have thought of it, like it never would have even
popped in my mind, because we'realways thinking like, oh, the
happy things.
And maybe you're going to tellme this is a happy thing, so I'm
going to lean on you as anexpert.
Oh, so, let me do this.
(04:23):
So you've been on the showbefore, so everyone knows you,
but still, maybe just give alittle inkling into why we're
talking to a wedding expert whoabsolutely does know about legal
.
Just, we'll do that first andthen we'll talk about pre-nups
and all that.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, so since people last saw me or heard me on the
show, I have shut down mywedding planning company as of
the end of 2022 and started alaw firm with a friend of mine
at the beginning of 2023.
And so I was an attorney beforebeing a wedding planner.
I was a wedding planner for abit and now I have gone back to
being an attorney full time.
So I have the legal background,but I also have, like, actual
(05:00):
experience as a wedding plannerworking with clients for 10
years.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, and guys, so you know, like Leah's, who I would
turn to, like she's my and herwedding, her legal, what are you
?
A firm?
Yeah, a law firm, okay, herfirm.
Really, their core is weddingpeople.
So when I and it's great,because she was in the business,
(05:27):
like she was a wedding plannerand she knows all things, so
this is great, great, greatcontent for you to like, know
and absorb and be like okay,she's legit.
She's just not just somewedding planner who had a bunch
of people who wanted to knowabout prenuptes.
Okay, so to make sure everyone'son the same page, can you
(05:49):
explain exactly what a prenuptis and what it's meant for?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, so a prenupt is short for a prenuptial agreement
.
It is a contract that hasentered into between the people
who are getting married, andwhat it does is.
It essentially sets forth theplan for what happens when the
marriage ends and how assetswill be divided and who has
(06:18):
access to what and how thingsare going to be split up, in
order to essentially saveyourself from a lot of back and
forth and potential fightingwhen things, if things, don't
work out.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay, how many people would you say, best guess,
actually get pre-nups?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Probably not many.
I think there is this idea thatpre-nups are reserved for high
net worth individuals, so peoplethat are coming into the
marriage with a lot of assets ormaybe they are set to inherit a
lot of money or assets at acertain period of time.
So people think, oh, only if Ihave a significant amount of
(07:04):
money do I really need to worryabout it.
I don't think that is the case.
So I'm happy to be here todayso we can kind of talk through
why any most people should bedoing entering into pre-nups?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, because I'll tell you, I thought exactly the
same thing, but maybe it'seasier and better.
Even if you're both startingout, we're not those people that
we thought needed them.
This is for everyone, acrossthe board, it is not just for
people who have huge assets andthings like that high wealth and
(07:38):
across the board, it could be agood thing for everyone.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and I think people should look at it.
I hate to make it sound like abusiness transaction, but it is
kind of, when I talk to ourclients about when they go into
business with people, they needto have a contract that outlines
that relationship.
I often say think of it kind ofas a pre-nup for your business
and so, on the flip side of that, think of this as like a
(08:05):
partnership agreement for yourmarriage almost.
I mean, divorce rates are veryhigh.
People don't go into a marriagehoping that it's going to end
or really anticipating that it'sgoing to end, but there's no
harm in sort of planning forwhat that end might look like.
I always say that the two peoplethat are getting married are
(08:29):
not the same two people who aregoing to ultimately decide to
end that marriage.
You are going to be differentpeople and so a lot of people
will say, well, I'm gettingmarried, I would never try to
take my spouse's assets or Iwould never want to request
alimony or spousal support orsomething like that.
And that is what you say whenthe two of you are happy and
(08:53):
you're getting married andyou're making this decision
together.
But you're not those people ifthings don't work out and things
are coming to an end.
So I always say it's helpful toplan for something like that at
the beginning, when everybodyis more level headed, a little
bit less emotional, on sort ofthe same page, as opposed to
(09:13):
waiting until things have gonewrong, because then you're
definitely not going to be onthe same page.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, and I have to wonder if sometimes, when people
put this into place, if theyhave some kind of relief in
knowing, hey, that's one, youknow, like we did this together,
we made these decisionstogether and we can feel good
about it.
And you know, I have to wonder,is that sometimes a case where
people come in together going,hey, we just want to put this,
(09:41):
these precautionary acts oragreements in place?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be emotional, it can just be
very practical.
And so if you think about itthat way and don't think about
it, it's not accusatory.
Like saying to your partner Iwould like to enter into a
prenup.
It's not accusatory saying, oh,you're going to come, try to
steal my money or something likethat.
Or, like you know, marry me andget divorced and then come
(10:05):
after my money.
It's not accusatory.
We need to sort of take theemotion out of it and just
understand that it's actually avery sort of healthy and
thoughtful and mature decisionto make as people getting
married.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at it really, if you think
about it, it could be somethingas simple as, like you know, you
think about what?
Like healthcare.
You're getting married, are yougoing to do a family plan, or
are you keeping your healthinsurance separate with your
employer?
And I'm going to do mine?
You have to make that decisionExactly, so why would that be
any different?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, there's so many decisions Like again, like even
just how are we handling thebank account, kind of thing?
Are we commingling money?
Are we keeping things separate?
Like all of this is just, it'sjust about good planning and
just taking away.
Like by doing this advancedplanning, you're removing the
potential for these obstaclesand issues to arise in the
future.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You know what that makes me think of?
Like I don't know that I'veever seen a list of things that
you should do like that.
I mean just like, not, just no,I'm going off and I change it
in here.
But you know, like here are thenot fun parts of wedding
planning that really need to getdone.
(11:22):
You know, because I mean you goto like I'm gonna say for
Catholic, you go through thewhole thing with the what are
the?
Why am I losing my words?
What's that called when youpre-canna?
Yes, you know, and they set youup to make sure you're actually
good to like get married andall that stuff.
But also, like I feel like thereshould be and there probably is
one somewhere but somethingthat says here are the not
(11:45):
wedding related decisions thatyou need to put in place, or you
should consider and haveconversations on outside of the
wedding, wedding like healthinsurance and banking and
pre-nups and things like thatYep, right, yes, exactly, okay,
so could you get on that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, we'llfind someone to do it, okay.
(12:13):
So, other than pre-nups and I'mgonna, we're gonna go back to
pre-nups Are there any otherlegal documents that you know of
that people should beconsidering for before we get
married, or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Pre-wedding.
I think this tends to cover it.
I will say the disclaimer hereis that state laws are very
different in terms of how theytreat like community property
and stuff like that.
I'm sure people who live inCalifornia know a lot about the
community, how communityproperty works there.
So I'm always advising peoplelike make sure you're talking to
(12:50):
an attorney to understand, like, if your pre-nup can override
certain state laws or how it canbe drafted to interact with
state laws.
I just wanna throw that outthere that that's definitely
something that people need tolook into.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, great.
Okay, now that we've gotten thebaseline done, I think everyone
understands what a pre-nup is.
Actually, I feel like we wannago a little bit further on it.
Sorry, now I'm thinking what isactually in a pre-nup Like?
What are the different?
Like?
I imagine it's several pageslong.
(13:27):
What are some of the thingsthat it details out?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, the main thing that it's going to deal with is
assets.
So whatever like your existingassets are, it's going to say
what the plan is for thoseassets upon divorce.
It's going to talk about whathappens to assets that are
(13:49):
accrued and obtained during themarriage.
What happens to those things.
It could talk about things likeit might distinguish between
money earned from a job versusinheritance that comes in and
how that is handled.
If somebody is a business owneror intends to be a business
owner, that's actually a reallybig thing.
(14:10):
To just make sure is clear that, like if the business just
belongs to one of the partnersand if they get divorced, the
other person does or does nothave any ongoing interest in the
business.
So it's talking about that.
And then in some cases andthese are the things you hear
about in some of the highprofile like celebrity cases are
these closet basicallyinfidelity clauses and so almost
(14:35):
adding some kind of penalty ifthe marriage dissolves because
of some kind of infidelity andlike things.
Like the way that things getresolved is different if you
decide to get divorced becauseone of the partners was
unfaithful.
So I think.
I want to say, and I don'tremember we might have to fact
(14:55):
check this but I think Iremember the first time JLo and
Ben Affleck were married.
I think I remember hearing thatthey had like an infidelity
clause in there, prenup.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Wait, they got married, weren't they married?
I don't think they got married.
I think wasn't that the onewith the pink diamond, and then
they were gonna get married, andthen they did it, I thought
they did.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I don't know.
We can scrap the whole, we canscrap the example, but we can
keep it.
Lance will keep in the partabout there, sometimes our
infidelity.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I know what's gonna happen.
Everyone's gonna go Google itreal quick, but I I don't know.
That's a good trivia question.
I might post that on theInstagram later.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes, but at some point in the past there was some
high-profile celebrity couplethat had an infidelity clause in
their premium.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Okay, okay, so that is something.
Is that something that isalways in there, or no?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
No, no, no, okay, no and one other kind of basic
piece of information that Ithink just helps from a
practical Understanding is thatwhen entering into a prenup,
each person needs to have theirown attorney.
So one attorney, becausetechnically you have technically
you do have conflictinginterests, and so each person
(16:13):
should be represented by theirown counsel.
Now, depending on, maybe, howcontentious the the prenup is to
begin with, if both parties arelike in total agreement and
fine, like I'll admit, myhusband and I signed a prenup
when we got married.
I at the time was working in afirm and a divorce attorney had
(16:34):
office space in our firm and Ihad a relationship with him.
So it was like, hey, my husbandand I want to do a prenup.
He's like great, I canrepresent you.
Here's who I recommend for yourhusband.
So in a lot of cases, divorceattorneys sort of have their
kind of go-to person for thesemore amicable Preenups, because
it was just like but technicallyyou do need to be represented
(16:56):
by two separate attorneys atdifferent firms because you have
Just by nature, conflictinginterests.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I feel like you've educated me so much so far and
it's been like 10 minutes.
I appreciate I I don'tobviously don't have a prenup,
but I didn't.
I didn't know all of thiseither.
And you know, just as anexample, kelly and I my
husband's name is Kelly Did Itell you that that's so
confusing?
Yeah, it was confused.
(17:26):
Well, it's still some time.
Okay, no, whole, nother podcastepisode, but anyway.
So we've been married for 25years and the difference between
where we are now from where westarted is Strikingly different.
Like could not be any moreopposite.
So not there were anywhere neargetting divorced.
(17:47):
We're very happily marriedafter 25 years.
But if that was the case, ifsomething did happen and there
was we would not be in the samelike it would be so different,
you know, because we had nothingthen.
Yeah, no, but we didn't havekids, we didn't have a business.
But things did change and Iwould, I would think that we
(18:11):
would, you know it, would admitit.
Like I said, under nocircumstance are we anywhere
near getting a divorce.
We're very happily married, butI can see how something like
that would be good to have donein the beginning and not have to
be like something that wasweighing on anyone's shoulders,
should you know.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And for the record you can do them.
You can enter into basicallythe same type of agreement once
you're married to.
Yeah, you can alwaysPre-nuptial I think it's called
a post-nup, it's like I thinkit's called a post-nuptial.
Oh yeah, but you can still setout the same Terms and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yes, so like, maybe, like, if something does change
and you both are like, okay, I'mopening a business now and I
think we need to like separatethings and put things in place,
yeah, or maybe it could be thatyou're opening up a business and
now you have partners and theyown some of the business, so
that there could be lots ofdifferent things that come to
play, that, yeah, absolutely youneed to consider that yeah, and
(19:12):
it could be something.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I mean it would be great like if society to sort of
work this into the naturaldiscussion, like when you go to
do like your Wills and stuff.
I know a lot of people kind ofput that off.
But like, this is somethinghonestly that, like when you go
and take care of all that stuff,this could be something just
documentation that you do atthat point too.
Sure, sure, it doesn't have tobe a big deal.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It feels so much easier.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big deal.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's okay to talk about guys.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about pre-nup versus no
pre-nup.
So I think, probably.
Again, I don't have a lot ofinformation to give on this, so
I'm leaning on you.
Sorry, you're doing all thetalking, but I'm happy to ask
all the questions, okay, solet's talk first about the pros
(19:58):
to a prenuptial or post.
Yeah, post nuptials that whatwe decided to call it.
Yeah, okay, so what do you gotfor us?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, and the pros are I mean, the pros are number
one just a little bit of peaceof mind.
Like you said, it just givesyou peace of mind that it's not
gonna be weighing on you, youdon't have to worry about it.
You've already sort ofpre-agreed as to what's gonna
happen and then just thinkingabout what it, if you do end up
getting Divorce, it's just gonnasave you so much time and
(20:28):
energy and probably playingfrankly, money in legal fees,
not having like a ridiculouslyLong, drawn-out divorce process.
So it's gonna make things.
It's gonna feel like it's gonnalighten your load a little bit
during the marriage and then,okay, if the marriage comes to
an end, it's just gonna helpmake that a lot more Seamless.
(20:49):
Like it's gonna already beemotional and messy and hard and
just taking this off the tableand not having to worry about
you know how we're gonna dividethings up.
You know it's it's gonna bemake that part smoother.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Can I ask you questions?
Can they one?
Can they get changed afterthey're?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
done.
Yeah, absolutely, as long asboth parties agree.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yes, absolutely Okay okay, I Guess I kind of answers
the second part too.
Yeah, okay, so they can bechanged after.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, afterwards, as long as everyone comes to the
table, like when your life ischanged completely and it no
longer makes sense to do, yeah,something one way, yeah and what
you mentioned to you, like wekind of said, goes into this
thinking of like oh, I don'tneed a prenup because I don't
have a lot of assets or moneykind of coming into this.
But you're sort of the perfectexample of how like things
(21:42):
change over the course of amarriage.
And first of all,congratulations on 25 years.
That's absolutely amazing.
But yeah, you said it yourselflike so much has changed your
Careers, your income level, likeyou've got kids, everything has
changed, and so there's ways toyou know you think you don't
need it at the time, but itwould be.
(22:02):
It's gonna be very helpful downthe road.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely would do.
Prenuptials could they have anyeffect on?
On like Kids, like, even iflike kids aren't part of our
kids, part of prenuptials?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No.
Okay so that's a wholedifferent Custody and everything
is going to yes, Custody isgoing to be something completely
separate from the prenuptialagreement.
That's just going to deal withlike ask, like money, personal
property, tangible property,businesses, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Okay.
So you can tell me this hasnothing to do with one with the
other, but it's making me think.
So let's say you have aprenuptial and you start at the
beginning like we're gettingmarried, let's go, we're going
to figure out health insurance,we're going to figure out
banking, we're going to put ourprenuptial, we're going to get
all that done.
And then it's five years laterand now you've got kids and you
(23:07):
realize that Everything would bedifferent because you have kids
.
So then in that case you justchange the prenuptial or you
don't do any kind of change theprenuptial because you have kids
.
Like your assets should besplit differently because you
know that one of you is going totake custody, or something like
(23:30):
that.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, so the court?
So that's what.
You don't really know who'sgoing to end up with custody in
that case, and that's sort ofwhy you can't prepare for that
and like share that and splitthe assets.
That's why, when you do go tofamily court for that type of
thing and whoever gets custodyand depending on that, then they
might require the other partnerto pay for.
(23:52):
That's how child support getsdivvied up to is based on who's
got custody and their incomelevel and everything like that.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
What kind of attorney does prenuptials Is it?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
a divorce attorney yeah, divorce attorney, or a
family law attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, can we call it family law?
That sounds better.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, a family law attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Are they two different things?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It's two different sort of specialties, like they
have.
Oh, it is.
Yeah, the knowledge base isdifferent, but generally people
that practice family law aregoing to cover that whole
spectrum of things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay, it just sounds based on family.
Obviously, I'm a weddingplanner who does things of like
happy things.
Okay, are there any cons tohaving a prenupt?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I think, just given how society views prenupts, it
could be.
Bringing it up can becontroversial and it could start
a whole thing.
I remember when we as a kidwatching TV shows and stuff
whenever prenupts would come up,the context would always be
that one party asks for aprenupt and it's like the
(25:05):
parents who are wanting itbecause they think the other
person who's marrying theirchild wants to steal their money
, and then the person who'spresented the prenupt like
doesn't want to sign it.
And then it's sort of thisweird ultimatum thing.
Like I feel like there's somany movie and TV storylines
around prenupts being terrible.
That's why we think they'reterrible.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
That was my next question because so often when
we're planning with theirclients, we're planning with the
whole family, like that's it isin my case anyway.
I don't know that that's thecase with you, know everyone.
But when this does come up, Itend to hear that, like from one
side of the couple, either youknow one of the fiance's that
(25:52):
the other person's family wantsparents wanting to happen.
Nobody can force anyone into aprenupt, am I right, like you?
Just you can just not do it andnot get married, right?
Or yeah, right, okay, okay, allright, good to know, good to
know Anything else about eitherof these that we should like be
(26:16):
weighing, like, like consideringor weighing on.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I just think it's an overall kind of how we view how
we view them and I'm glad we'rehaving this conversation because
hopefully this will take getforward progress of not thinking
of prenupts in this really badway and just thinking that, like
I said at the beginning,thinking of as like the mature
thing to do, the thoughtfulthing to do, just just kind of
(26:41):
like how they always say start,if you decide to go to couples
counseling, start that whenthings are good and don't just
do it when things are bad.
And so it's sort of likeprepare for your future when
things are good.
It's the same thing of likedoing a will Nobody really wants
to think about when they'regoing to die, but if you don't
(27:02):
have your affairs in order, forthe people that survive you,
it's going to be an absolutemess.
And so it's kind of the samething like with a divorce If you
don't have the affairs in order, it's going to be kind of a
mess.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I feel like someone just really needs to put
that PDF together that sayshere's the list of all the
things.
The will the bank.
What else did we talk about?
Insurance, the will bankaccounts, yep and prenupt yeah,
tools, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I do talk about it in my book.
Like I do talk about it alittle bit in my books these
kind of general conversationsit's not like a nice neat PDF
resource, but I definitely talkabout like there are these
uncomfortable conversations thatyou're going to have, I mean,
outside of this talk.
I think those other questionsinvolve religion and children,
like to have kids, to not havekids, just sort of religion
(27:52):
separately, but like if we dohave kids, then how are we
raising them religion-wise?
Like these are all things thatpeople need to talk about.
Yeah, let's, let's refresheverybody on your book.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I think that's actually a really good idea.
I should have thought oh, Ishould bring that up now because
that actually is a perfectperfect space to go to, so tell
us about the book again.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And we have a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I know we have a whole episode on it, but you
know like well, we talk about itin the episode, so go ahead,
give us a little juice I spentmy time during the pandemic
writing a book.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It is called the Wedding Roller Coaster.
It came out in April of 2001and it deals with the emotional
side of planning a wedding, andso I felt like there's a ton of
how-to books out there, like howto actually plan the wedding,
like when to send or save thedates, fun ways to ask members
of your people to be yourmembers of your wedding party,
(28:46):
like all that stuff.
But there wasn't anything thattalked about like ooh, how do we
have these really uncomfortableconversations about money with
our families if they're payingfor it?
Or how do we have theseuncomfortable conversations with
each other when we're trying tolike break down what does
marriage mean and what kind ofbaggage am I bringing from past
relationships and things likethat.
(29:07):
And so there is talk in thereabout having prenups I support.
In the book I talk about howI'm a fan of prenups and it
talks about deciding how you'regonna handle money.
Another one this is actually canbe controversial is if
somebody's changing, ifsomebody's taking the other
person's last name and if theydecide not to do that, and then
(29:27):
there might be some.
I have heard from friends thatthere is has been friction over
somebody's decision not to taketheir partner's last name, and
so all of this is stuff.
To just get it, I get it out onthe table before you walk down
the aisle.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, and I think we talked about this in that
episode.
It was a long, that was a longtime ago.
That was a long time ago.
But those conversations I feellike should be had with your
fiance first, separately fromfamily, so that you can kind of
be on the same page before andthen every one else is involved
(30:10):
when possible.
Sometimes parents are ahead ofyou, but your book can help
people to get ahead of that, sowe'll make sure there's a link
in the show notes to your bookas well.
I know that we can give that aname as well, I'm sure right.
(30:30):
Yeah, I feel like it's fromreading before Okay, great, it
was so perfect.
I actually feel so much betterabout pre-nup style because,
just like you and, I think,everyone listening, it just
seemed like such a negativething.
But it's really not.
When you think about it's alongthe same vein as we gotta make
(30:51):
decisions on the insurance, wegotta make decisions on in the
future, a will and banking.
If we just put it all on thatsame level, then really it's not
so bad.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know and when you think, and yeah, I think my the
point that I like to conveybecause I mentioned this before
and I just kinda wanna likeleave on this note which is just
this idea that the people whoentered into the marriage,
you're not those same peoplewhen the marriage comes to a
close.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And so like You're not in good frame of mind.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, you're just not those same people.
So whatever somebody'sintentions were on the day that
you got married, like thoseintentions can change and it's
gonna be highly emotionallycharged and people are probably
not making the best decisions,they're not making the nicest
decisions, and so when you justkind of keep that in mind, like
deciding now, when you are bothjust being able to think through
(31:44):
everything clear-headed, isjust gonna be so much more
helpful than having to fightthrough all of that later on.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, oh, thank you for coming in the show Of course
, and for something that Ithought was gonna be a little
bit contentious, but it's not.
I mean, I'm smiling.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You know, it's all about the mindset, it's all how
we feel it really is.
It really is, it really is.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And just hearing from someone who actually knows and
to make it seem like I know it'snot gonna be a simple process,
but if you can actually sit downand therapy therapy was the
thing that you mentioned thatshould also be on that page of
people like, of things to do,like decide to go to therapy
from the beginning while thingsare in good shape, and then they
(32:29):
stay in good shape.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, and then you have the tool.
You have the tool, you'relearning the tools to keep
things in good shape yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yes, yeah, this was so good.
Yeah, thank you, friend.
Of course, it was good to seeyou and you're coming back very
soon.
Yes, we have a whole nothertopic.
Yes, that's.
Is it heavier than this one?
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think it's heavy.
I think I would say it'sheavier, yeah, it's heavier,
it's heavier, it's heavier.
But I think that's why we didthis one first, so we can make
sure our boy loves you even more.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Okay, girl, I'll talk to you soon.
Sounds good.
Thank you, Bye.
I'm so glad to be able to sharemy wedding experiences and
expertise with you, and that myco-hosts are so giving it theirs
.
We truly do want you to havethe best time at your wedding,
and our hope is that thispodcast is helping you to make
your engagement time whileplanning your wedding that much
(33:23):
easier.
May I ask a favor of you?
If this is the case, would youjust take a moment to leave a
review of this podcast on yourlistening platform?
It helps people just like youto find the podcast and to also
find out their answer so theycan make decisions.
I would also absolutely lovefor you to give this versus that
podcast a shout out on yoursocial media.
(33:46):
You can find us at this versusthat wedding podcast on
Instagram, and if you'reinterested in getting a chance
to do this podcast on Instagramand if you would like me to help
you with a specific question, awedding decision, please by all
means ask.
Send me a DM.
I would love to hear from youand maybe, just maybe even have
(34:07):
you as a wedding cast on afuture episode.
How fun, thank you.
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