July 2, 2025 • 38 mins
What helps a kid feel like they truly belong?
In this episode, Judge Kathleen Feeney and Abish Israde (Wedgwood Wraparound Program) join Hillary to explore how one trusted adult can make all the difference in a child’s life—and why a sense of belonging is essential for emotional and social well-being.
Hear stories from the courtroom and the community, along with practical strategies for parents, caregivers, and educators to help kids feel seen, supported, and connected.
Whether you're guiding a child through tough seasons or just looking to build stronger relationships, this episode is filled with hope, encouragement, and action steps to help kids find their place.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hillary (00:00):
Hey, it's Hillary. Join me for a helpful and hopeful
chat about mental health in ourcommunity. So grab a cup of
coffee or tea. This isWedgwood's Coffee Break
conversation.
Unknown (00:12):
I'm Kathleen Feeney.
I've been a judge here in KentCounty for 25 years. For 22
years, I spent a lot of timedoing divorce, custody, child
support, paternity, abuse andneglect, delinquency, personal
protection, order, adoptioncases. And now I'm at the court
of appeals. I tell people, forthose 22 years, it was as if I
had the striped shirt on runningup and down the field making the
(00:35):
call in those cases. And now Iam up in the instant replay
booth, and there's 25 of us, andwe sit in panels of three, and
we review everything that's gonein the case, and then we affirm
the ruling that the trial courtmade, or we reverse the ruling
on the field. And it's beentremendous. I've really been
enjoying it. Great. Thank you.
(00:56):
My name is avicizrade. I've beenhere at Wedgwood for closer to
nine years now, currently I'mworking as a wraparound
supervisor within our counselingintegrated department. But
before then, I did haveexperience as a as a wraparound
coordinator. And even beforethen, it's still, you know, my
passion has been integratingyouth and families in their
(01:16):
community. I did after schoolprogramming with our youth
enhancement program back in theday as well.
Hillary (01:21):
Nice. So before we launch into this conversation,
I'd love to hear a little bitabout why you are so passionate
about the well being of kids andfamilies, and what got you into
your work.
Unknown (01:33):
When you are dealing with families who come before
the court, it's a lot ofdifferent perspectives, whether
their kids caught in the middleof their parents' divorce, or
their parents are never married,but they're not agreeing on how
they're going to spend theirtime with their parents. Or it's
juveniles who make bad choices,and we want to help them make
(01:53):
better choices, or children whoare part of the Child Protective
area. These kids didn't chooseany of this, we need to give
them the resources and theencouragement and the ability to
say, Okay, this is not going todefine me. This is not what my
life is going to be all about.
This is a part of my life, and Ineed help getting through it and
(02:13):
figuring out a way to thrivedespite all of this. And how can
you say no? How can you say noto that? Because there's so much
potential and so much excitementand energy and the dreams that
they have, and you just want tosay, Okay, we're doing
everything we can. We're rollingup our sleeves. Here we go. What
do you need? How can we helpyou? What can we do to encourage
(02:34):
you? How can we help you makebetter choices? Because we know
your brain isn't fully developeduntil you're like 24 or 26 and
there's going to be mistakes.
Great. Let's use them forlearning opportunities, so it
just kind of builds on itself.
And these kids, they they needso much and they deserve so
much. And when you have anopportunity like we have to
(02:55):
reach out to them and work withthem. There is nothing that's
better.
Hillary (03:01):
I love that.
Unknown (03:03):
Yeah. Similarly, you know, we as the in the
wraparound program, we work witha lot of youth that find
themselves in situations wherethey've given up hope, or even
their parents or caregivers havesimilarly given up hope on them.
And so my passion, what I lovedoing, is really encouraging
that hope, again, instilling asense of belonging, and again,
(03:25):
the ability to move forward fromobstacles that you know,
sometimes youth like you said,don't have much to do take part
in right? And so knowing, okay,you have a system of support
here that can help you, youknow, go forth and maintain your
goals. Yeah, that's
Hillary (03:42):
great. So I read recently that nearly half of
kids don't feel a strong senseof belonging in their schools,
which is really sad to hear. Isthis what you're seeing in your
circles and in your work? Domost kids feel like they don't
fit in
Unknown (03:56):
absolutely it's amazing. I think COVID really
did a huge disservice to ourkids. Obviously, it did a huge
disservice to everybody, but thefact that they couldn't go to
school, they couldn't make thoseconnections, and school is where
you do so much of that social,emotional learning piece. You
learn to read cues, you learn tocommunicate. So what did our
kids do? They had to sit behindscreens, be more isolated, be
(04:20):
more on their own and thenrelying so much more on their
phones, and those sorts ofthings where we know a lot of
not very nice things happen, alot of cyber bullying and things
like that. And it's just, Ithink it's been really, really
hard for our kids. The Kidsthese days are extremely
anxious, and lots of them arevery depressed because of things
(04:43):
going on in the world, becauseof things that happen within
their family. Their parents arelosing their job, or they got to
move, or somebody who dies, orwhatever that it is, but they
have so much on their plateright now, and they're trying to
deal with so much, you know, theworld is getting warm, or
there's not going to be any hopefor the future. And so these.
Kids, really, they become veryisolated and very withdrawn. And
(05:05):
the studies all show that havingkids at school gives them that
opportunity to find theresources the teachers who are
going to help get an IEP or a504 if they need assistance with
that. And just by beingconnected to one person, just
one person at the school. It canbe a teacher, it can be a social
worker, it can be the schoollunch lady, or it can be the
(05:26):
school librarian or thecustodian, or a coach or an
assistant coach, somebody whoexpects to see them there, finds
joy from interacting with them.
That gets our kids to come toschool, and so they can
hopefully make up for some ofthose that lost opportunity to
learn those social interactionskills that'll keep them engaged
and and hopeful.
(05:49):
Yeah, man, I think you saideverything to a T right there
within our program, we're seeinga lot of kiddos express an
interest in and being includedin belonging and finding a
social circle for themselves,and it's it's really our part,
you know, as adults, you know,as caregivers, as supports, to
guide them, like you said to theto the right people that can
(06:12):
really help them explore theirinterests, but also follow
through with them. I thinkthat's something that I really
do appreciate from my program,is not only are we pointing them
to the right direction, rightwe're making sure that they feel
supported even after that, thattheir caregivers also feel
supported in keeping their kidengaged in this type of program
(06:33):
or in whatever goals they havethemselves as caregivers too.
Hillary (06:37):
So let's talk about this idea of belonging a little
bit from your perspectives, whatdoes it mean for a child to feel
a sense of belonging? And thenon the flip side, what are some
signs that a kid might bestruggling with feeling like
they don't fit in or have aplace in this world?
Unknown (06:52):
I think the belonging is that that there's people who
care for them and care aboutthem, that they feel like they
are connected, whether it's toother adults or other youth,
because it's that desire forconnection that kind of feeds
our basic needs, right? What'sit Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
(07:13):
exactly, exactly, and whathappens when that doesn't occur?
It's isolation, it's depression.
It is not wanting to be involvedin anything. It is a lot of kids
who then seek to deal with thatloss of the dopamine by using
substances or sitting behindtheir screens and doom scrolling
(07:35):
and and not engaging. We seethat a lot kids not going to
school. That's one of the bigthings, too. So so
Hillary (07:43):
when they feel like they don't belong somewhere,
they kind of write it off, like,I don't need to be there. Then,
Unknown (07:50):
yeah, yeah. I think we see a lot of kiddos write it off
like you say, and also justcompletely, even, you know, stop
believing in their own, youknow, abilities and that as
well, like, yes, they wrote itoff, that, that particular
opportunity. But then, you know,what I hate seeing in youth too,
is that okay, I'm not going totake part of anything else,
(08:12):
right? And it's that sense ofhopeless that just kind of
snowballs and turns into those,those isolation factors that you
know you mentioned, I thinksomething else that I see too is
in in a kiddos need to feelaccepted. They sometimes join
(08:33):
different, you know, not ashealthy circles, right? Or they
turn it into behaviors that getthem into more trouble, right?
So we want to make sure that thecircles that they are in are
positive ones, right? Thatthey're in it, you know, because
they themselves, theiridentities are being, are being
(08:54):
filled and and not expressed inanother, different way, yeah, I
thinkwith identities too, so much of
the LGBTQ plus community, thosekids especially, are at risk. I
heard one time that we have atany point in time, 2200 homeless
youth wandering around KentCounty at any point in time.
(09:17):
It's probably larger than that,because that wasn't from several
years ago, and a huge percentageof those kids are LGBTQ plus.
And it just breaks my heart thatthese kids, who probably need
our support more than ever,especially now, are out there
floating around and being takenadvantage of. I mean, we have
the Manasa project, which dealswith human trafficking, and I
(09:39):
wish they were out of business,but they're not, and they're
thriving. And I have kids whoare recruiting other kids. When
I say I have kids, I shouldalways mention this, not my own
children, but they're my kids,right? Yeah, I have kids who are
recruiting other kids to work inthese organizations, and it
makes them feel like they'repart of something they get in
with. These promises, and thenall of a sudden, everything
(10:01):
turns bad, and they don't knowhow to pull themselves out of
it. And it's just it's sodangerous, and we see kids
making choices that they shouldnever have to make or never want
to make, because they just needto survive. And we need to get
our kids beyond just surviving.
And you mentioned just, youknow, children wandering, right?
(10:22):
Whether they be part of the LGBTcommunity or other marginalized
groups, right? They're wonderingnow, right? But how were they,
you know, in high school, didwe? Did they have a supportive
hand back then to kind of guidethem? And is, this is kind of
the cusp, right? You seehomeless youth, right? But you
know, we also need to see thosesigns of of a kid, you know,
(10:44):
faltering in their social groupsor at school too, and catch it
there.
Hillary (10:49):
And I think when you're talking about the Manasseh
project and our and humantrafficking and falling into the
wrong circles, I think that's agood example of how strongly
kids want to belong, becausethey will even be okay with
joining something or being apart of something that they
probably, deep down, know is notgood or healthy for them, but
(11:10):
they just want to belong morethan they want to be safe or
healthy or different, right?
Yeah, we
Unknown (11:16):
have a kid right now in our wraparound program that is
on juvenile probation, and it'sbecause he's stealing items and
and he's giving it to thesecircles, and him stealing and
giving these items, it's himthinking, Okay, we're I'm part
of this circle. I want theiracceptance, right? But there has
to be another way.
Hillary (11:35):
Why? Why do you think it's so important and then so
hard for kids to feel like theybelong.
Unknown (11:44):
It's important because it's part of their social
development, right? You youlearn, you learn how to parent
from your parents, right? And somany kids that we have who are
either homeless or their familydynamic was impacted by trauma.
I mean, we see generationaltrauma that goes back 345,
(12:06):
generations, and they can't seemto get out of that cycle. So we
try to help kids realize that,okay, just because this happened
to you doesn't mean that you'rea bad person or that this is the
way it's supposed to be. But wecan make strides beyond that,
the dynamics just are sodifficult for these kiddos, and
(12:29):
we need wraparound services. Weneed the community services, you
know, the Wedgwood's, theBethany Christian Services, the
Catholic Social Services, the,you know, samaritas. We need all
those folks pulling together forour kids.
Hillary (12:43):
So how can we help? How do we foster an environment of
inclusion and support for kids?
Unknown (12:51):
Man, I think it's it's providing a listening ear. It's
being cued in to those signsthat kids are giving. You're not
gonna be. They're never gonna beonce to outright tell you, I
need help in this, you know, I'msure there are kids like that,
but, you know, I know, growingup, me myself, I was really
dependent on someone in mycorner, knowing, like, hey, when
(13:15):
I needed help and when I wascrying out for for that
assistance. And, you know,again, following through with
it, you know, because that'sthat's to me, how you know or
someone does actually care. It'snot just you know them pointing
you to a resource and dismissingyou know, it's following through
and making sure that you'redoing okay. And if there's
(13:37):
anything else that they could bemore of a help with just a
relationship, yeah, creating arelationship.
But that's why I think that wehave to kind of think of it. I
think of it in terms of, like,three eyes. So you want to
invite kids into your space, orinvite yourself into their
space, whether it's kids you seeat work or on your church or in
(13:58):
your family or in yourneighborhood that seem to be
falling between the cracks atschool, whether school has or
outreach for that, and invitethem in. You know, do you want
to go to a ball game? Do youwant to come over for lunch? Do
you want to go get a coffee orsomething like that? Go to
frosty boy, which is open nowand and, you know, and kind of
(14:19):
get to know them and then findout what inspires them, right?
You know, what do you like? Doyou like sports? You know, we
could go to a game. Do you likeart? Oh my gosh, there's so much
art in this community. Do youlike going fishing? We could do
that and just try to kind offigure out what feeds them. It's
kind of like figuring out theirlove language, right? Which is
really, really important,because then they know that
(14:40):
you're interested in them, andhow can the two of you connect?
And then imagine, okay, how canwe take you your interest in
these things, and imagine how wecan get you connected to the
larger community. Can we get youinvolved in a choir, if you love
to sing, can we get you involvedin, like, a cooking class? They
have great cooking classes.
Community College, or chef Jennaup at amore, she does that all
(15:01):
the time. Art they have stuff atGrand Rapids Art Museum all the
time for free. Can we do that?
Can we go to a ball game? Can wego hiking? What about dogs? Do
you like dogs? Let's go. We canvolunteer at the Humane Society.
And it's just those sorts ofthings, because truly it is
having one adult in your lifewho can be your forever adult. I
(15:24):
went to a thing, and I can'tremember the name of the
program, but he was from NewYork, and it was a program
called you've got to believe hisname was Pat. And he said every
person out there, especiallykids that are aging out of
foster care, they need apermanent adult. It doesn't mean
that you have to adopt them, butit has to be somebody that they
can always call. My car brokedown. Can you help me? I'm in
(15:46):
jail. Can you come and bail meout? I need some grocery money.
Can you do this? And it was allabout having that person as your
permanent adult, and it made allthe sense in the world, because
so many kids who age out offoster care and who have been in
the system for forever end upgetting not going to college,
getting involved in criminalactivity, not meeting their full
(16:10):
potential. So we want to be ableto provide them with those
connections. So kind of youknow, inviting those kids to
join your life, finding out whattheir interests are imagining
how we can get them reconnectedto the community. We all have
that opportunity. We all have asuperpower to do that. And we
all have the superpower ofkindness, which I wish everybody
(16:31):
would exercise.
Yeah, so I think that's one ofthe pillars with wraparound that
I do really like, is fosteringthose natural supports, or those
more creative supports it on thecommunity. It's super easier,
easy for me to put on my casemanagement hat and say, okay,
Arbor circle has this. We atWedgwood have this. You know, go
connect to your school. But likeyou say, Judge Feeney, it's
really creating an interest.
Inventory with a with a kiddo,see what they are passionate
(16:54):
about, what they are inspiredabout, and then sometimes they
already have that connection intheir own families or in their
communities already, and it'sinviting the kiddos to see that
person in a different light anda different perspective, so they
can able, you know, to reach outand connect to more resources
out in the
Hillary (17:13):
community. So how do community supports and services
help kids build connections andfeel secure? And then what sort
of role does the court systemplay in helping kids find
stability and belonging?
Unknown (17:26):
Well, I'll let you know the first part.
So I think community supportsallow a kid, a family, to feel
confident in the communityaround them, to know that they
have support and have a personor a group of individuals that
can help them in whatever areaof need, that they can go to
(17:50):
them in a time of need and say,like, you say like, it's a
person that may not knoweverything, but it's a trusted
person that can do the researchwith you and kind of struggle
bust it with, yeah, you know toemphasize and empathize with you
in that moment and help you getto a better spot. I think that's
a sense of community. It's,it's, it's, there's no
(18:11):
definition on how I thinkexperience that community member
has to be, but again, it has tobe someone that has kindness and
has that tenacity to make surethat the person that they're
working with gets to a better
Hillary (18:26):
spot in life. I feel like I hear the phrase it takes
a village a lot around whenpeople have babies, you know,
when new moms newborns. But thatextends past that stage into the
rest of your life too. It doestake a village kind of get
through life together.
Unknown (18:40):
Yeah, no, I think of even like young adults, you
know, they're babies in theworld, you know. I think of high
school teaching you, you know,all your core fundamentals and
you know, but like you, in thathigh school age of kiddos, they
also need people to help themthrough those, those social
situations, too, that they, youknow, are crying out for. I keep
(19:02):
telling people, even though, youknow, we watch kids in college,
their brains still aren't fullyfun, fully developed, yeah, and
so there's just, you know,whether you're watching babies
on the football field or babieson the basketball field or
softball or golf or whatever itis, they're still all babies. So
I'm sorry, a bit bumped intothat with respect to the court
system, though, we are, I think,uniquely able to engage kids. So
(19:28):
for example, in our juveniledelinquency cases, we have
community probation officers. Soour probation officers are in
the community. You shouldn'thave to go more than a mile from
wherever you live to get to acenter where the probation
officer is and they'll contactyou in your school, at your
home, those sorts of things, andthen they're able to be
connected with the police inthat area, with the schools in
(19:50):
that area, with the people inthe area and the resources so
they can connect their kids whohave made some bad choices and
are in court with us, into thoseservices with. Respect to the
child neglect cases, abuse andneglect cases, when they come
into court, then we have casemanagers. We have a whole group
of people. We have attorneys whoare representing them, and if
(20:11):
the attorneys think that theyneed another attorney to
represent what the kids wantversus what their best interests
are, we have another attorneythere. We have attorneys
representing the parents, andwe're all trying to pull
together to make sure that thatfamily has all the services that
they need, because we want toreunify them in a healthy
manner. So we're doingeverything we can. Sometimes, I
hate to say this, but sometimesthe judges, the lawyers, the
(20:34):
probation officers, we're themost stable people that they
have in their lives, and that'sreally quite sad, but at least
we're stable people, and we havekids, we have court appointed
special advocates to our CASASare amazing, but sometimes the
attorneys are the one who getthe call I'm someplace I can't
get home. It's two o'clock inthe morning. Will you come pick
(20:55):
me up? And the attorney will gopick them up. I'm doing this.
This is what's happening. Or,you know, I've just decided I'm
pregnant. What do I do now? Andso we can be resources for them.
So the court tries to support asmuch as we can with respect to
providing guidance, providingassistance, providing resources,
connecting them with resources,helping them make good choices,
(21:17):
celebrating when we havesuccesses, yeah, encouraging
them when we have failures thatokay, this isn't going to define
you. We can move beyond this.
Let's What lessons have welearned? And let's get going
again. So it's, it's a it's aprivilege to be able to work
with families when they're atthe crossroads that oftentimes
our families are at, andsometimes they're in and out,
because they learn the lessonreally quickly, and sometimes I
(21:40):
have the same people for 10 or15 years. So,
Hillary (21:45):
but then how cool on?
I'll use cool loosely, Isuppose, how cool that you are
still there. You are still youand your team are still there,
supporting them, even all thoseyears later, too. That is a real
sense of stability.
Unknown (21:58):
Yes, yes. And I still have people calling from my
cases from before. So, like, I'mlike, just down the street.
Hillary (22:05):
That's nice, yeah? So this goes beyond kids, right?
Like, I mean us adults, we wantto feel like we belong and fit
in too. So how do we help kidsfind belonging when we are also
still looking for a sense ofbelonging?
Unknown (22:20):
Yeah, I something that I always encourage our
wraparound caregivers is justmodeling through the hardships,
right? I think of so many timesI wanted to reach out to a
particular rock climbing, youknow, course, that I want to do
downtown, but I feel hesitantbecause I don't think, oh, I
don't belong, you know, Ihaven't I've been so out of
shape for a while, like, howcould I be successful in this?
(22:43):
But I think kiddos need to knowthat their parents kind of have
that same hesitations too, youknow, but they're willing to
work through it and kind of takethat first step forward in a
direction that they know ishard, but at the end, it's going
to be such a great, you know,life involvement there too. It's
a good reminder
Hillary (23:00):
that, like us as adults, we don't have to have it
all together. Have it alltogether to show kids. Well, we
can. We can struggle with thingstoo, but it's the fact that we
try, yeah, we work on it
Unknown (23:09):
and and I think being willing to tell your kids that
you're sorry, I don't rememberhearing that when I was growing
up and being able to tell mykids I'm sorry and that I've
made mistakes, and I'm hopingthat we can learn and move
forward, I think is really hugefor kids, because they realize
(23:30):
that, wow, mistakes and learningfrom those mistakes that happens
even later in life. Yeah, if Ican say that, yeah, and finding
ways to reconnect with yourkids. So I was always involved
in sports. I did competitivesports, starting when I was
five, because I had two olderbrothers, and I did everything
that they did, and scholarshipsto go and play in college and
(23:53):
things like that. And so Ialways thought, oh, that's going
to be what I'm going to connectwith my kids. Yes, no. So after
they got done with the littlestuff. It's like, Oh, I was
gonna go to high schoolbasketball games and swim meets
and things like that. We didthat for a little while, but not
in high school. And it's like,okay, well, we're gonna go to
Comic Cons. We're gonna do, youknow, get dressed up and go to
(24:13):
see, to eat, to and do artthings and and it's wonderful.
But you just have to kind ofmeet your kids where they are
and help them to realize thatyou are kind of the product of
your upbringing. And you know,none of it was perfect, and we
can all find things that we lovetogether, whether it's a same TV
show that we like to watch orgoing and doing fun things, game
(24:36):
night, that sort of thing. So Ithink our kids need to see us
modeling that. As you said, thatwe want to belong. We want to be
part of their lives, and that'sokay.
Hillary (24:48):
I love that. So what happens? What changes when kids
feel like they belong, when wefeel like we belong,
Unknown (24:57):
I think we get a greater. Sense of trust, and I
think inclusion or belonging inour circles a greater confidence
right to speak up on concernsthat we may have, or even a
greater confidence to share thepositives too, right? I think
(25:17):
that's something that Ipersonally struggle with. Right?
Is sharing, okay? Yeah, theywant to hear about my my good
stuff that's going on too. Theycare, right? So I think that's
something that we can model, youknow, as adults to kiddos as
well.
I think that the biggest thingthat we can do is continue to
encourage kids to strive. Wewere talking before we came on
(25:40):
that Angela Duckworth had agreat TED Talk about a study
that they did to determinesuccess in life. They tested
kids at Harvard and at WestPoint and Boeing and University
of Michigan and wherever Harvardall over the place to determine,
well, was it that? Did you go topreschool? Is that the
(26:02):
determining factor your IQ or ordid you live here or there,
whatever? And the greatestdeterminer of success in life
was grit, the unwaveringdedication to an objective or
some goal. And so our jobs asadults are to help kids and help
people develop grit. It's notthe easiest thing in the world
(26:24):
to do, because oftentimes lifepushes you down and then pushes
you down again, and then pushesyou down repeatedly to the point
where you've kind of given up.
But our whole goal is to helpkids understand that they are
the masters of their universe,and they're the ones who are
going to determine what happensfor the rest of their lives, the
things that have happened tothem in the past, especially
when we're dealing with kids whohave trauma and adults who have
(26:45):
trauma, is that those eventsdon't have to define them. They
obviously are part of what'smaking them who they are, but
they can move beyond that. Andso I think that helping people
develop grit, helping youngpeople develop grit, so they
have that in their older life,as they start to mature, is
critically important to makesure that they can find
(27:07):
happiness and figure out thatokay, this may not be what I
started out doing, but I lovethis, and I want to keep doing
it, so I think that's what keepsus doing the kind of work that
we do.
Yeah, and hearing that, though,I also think of like, care for
the caregiver and making surethat they have their own grit.
And, you know when, when, youknow, adolescents give them
(27:29):
their own troubles. Yeah?
Because, like, we have all mengive us troubles. You know,
we're all babies just goingthrough new environments, right?
Um, our caregivers are peoplethat we have deemed supports
able to continue to hold ourhands and guide us through that,
and I think that that's animportant aspect that I like
with wraparound or even at theservices here at Wedgwood, we're
(27:50):
always checking in withcaregivers as well. I think
Hillary (27:54):
when you talk about developing grit too, I have not
heard this TED talk, but it willbe adding it to my list. I
imagine that it's nearimpossible to develop grit on
your own, like you probably needsomebody there to help you,
because, like you said, lifewill knock you down and then
again and again, and after awhile, it gets a little hard to
get up on your own. And sohaving somebody there who can
(28:17):
help pick you back up, help keepyou going, dust you off, try
again is important. So samething with caregivers. You know
you need a support. Needsomewhere where you know you can
open up and be vulnerable andsay, Hey, I'm really struggling.
And feel like it's okay for meto say that here, yes,
Unknown (28:34):
yeah, absolutely.
Whether, whether you find otherpeople to confide in, or you
journal, I journal all the time,walk the dog, go out and do
things bake. I love people wholove to bake. I love to bake.
And it's those sorts of thingsthat'll that'll keep you moving
forward, because it's true. Somany people in the work that we
(28:56):
do get burned out and get burnedout very, very quickly, because
it's so all encompassing, andyou have to make sure that you
take care of yourself, or youtake care of the other people
around you. Because when we doChild Protective work, there are
the case managers, there are thetherapists, there are the
wraparound folks, there's theCommunity Living supports,
(29:16):
there's the parent to parentmentors. I mean, it's literally,
you have the village right incourt with us when we have our
hearings, and it's all thesepeople who are pouring
themselves into these familiesand trying to help them make
these better choices and to maketheir lives better so we can
reunify these kids. And it's andit's huge, difficult work, but
so affirming when it works, andeven sometimes when it doesn't
(29:44):
work, and we find new foreverfamilies for these kids. You
have to understand that, okay,there's only so much grief that
we can absorb in our. Lives, andwe have to find good ways to
handle that, so otherwise, weend up not being able to give to
(30:05):
feed into others, to feed thatpositivity into others.
Hillary (30:13):
So I always like to make sure that these coffee
breaks are hopeful and helpful.
So for this hopeful piece, whatgives you hope when it comes to
helping children findingbelonging,
Unknown (30:27):
I like hearing the stories that the kids are still
wanting to be accepted, wantingto join a circle, even if it is
done in the wrong way, whereasmaybe they join the wrong
circle, get themselves introuble. I love the fact that
they are still willing, becausethen that is an energy that we
(30:50):
can redirect and just guide in amore positive way. Yes, I'm Yes.
I like working with kiddos.
Unfortunately, are moreisolated, right? But I it's in
those situations where we needto grow their their
determination and in allowingthemselves to explore and get
(31:12):
more involved with other circlestoo.
I think kids naturally havehopes and dreams and
aspirations, and if you can findout from them what those hopes
and dreams and aspirations are,and say, Okay, what can we do?
How can we develop a plan tohelp you with this? It's
awesome, because then it helpsthem to see beyond just today,
(31:35):
yeah, I think kids are a lotmore informed today about what's
going on in the world, what'sgoing on internationally, what's
going on with the environment,what's going on politically. And
that's a lot for a developingbrain to try to handle. It's a
lot for an adult brain to tryand handle Absolutely,
absolutely. And so if we can tryto keep them focused and develop
(31:59):
that grit, it's hard, it'sreally, really hard to do, but
that connection, whether you'rethe one who's connected to them,
or you find somebody else who'sreally into that, and make sure
that you're encouraging thatsort of a connection. And it
could be just going to a gamenight with like, once a month
with people, and that might bewhat it is, or working with
(32:21):
kids, or finding a way to do it,or volunteering. I love
volunteers. I mean, talk aboutyour giving, and you're
receiving so much, whether it's,you know, doing the rough
readers at the library, or I'vegot a West Michigan therapy dog,
and that's just, it's sotremendously engaging, because
there's people loving on yourdog, and it's just making them
(32:43):
feel so good, and it's makingyou feel so good that you're
helping them to feel so good.
And it's those sort of things.
So I just these kids have theirwhole lives ahead of them, then
we just have to help them becomethe best that they can be, and
let them realize that they mighthave dreams now that might be
different dreams next week, thatmay be different dreams next
(33:03):
year, but that's okay, and we'lljust support them and find new
ways that we connect them. So,yeah, no, I think the important
part is like that A dream iskept alive. Yeah, right. And it
doesn't matter if it changesfrom day to day, like you
mentioned, but it's again,having that determination, you
know, just to keep, keepaspiring for something
different, for something betterthan what you're finding
yourself in right now. I love
Hillary (33:25):
that. And so for the helpful piece, what are some
strategies to foster a strongersense of belonging and
confidence in kids and maybeeven ourselves?
Unknown (33:34):
I think just getting involved in community and events
helping kids figure out, okay,what are the three things that
you think you'd like toinvestigate, whether it's
volunteering pieces or art orsports or whatever that might
be, book reading, going to thelibrary, getting in a book club,
and then trying to say, okay,how can we make this work with
(33:57):
your schedule? Because kids arereally overbooked these days
too, and how can we kind of getyou off your devices and get you
out in the world and meaningfulways? So for the most part,
that's a difficult thing to dowith with our kids in general, I
think because they're sodependent on that, I'm really
(34:17):
hoping that schools, and I knowpeople are going to not like
this very much, there's a pushto keep cells phones out of
schools, and I'm a big fan inthe old days, if our parents
need to get a hold of us orthere's an emergency, they'd
contact the principal's office,they come and find us, but
definitely out of out of middleschools and elementary schools,
and then limit their ability tobe available while they're in
(34:38):
high schools. Yeah, teachershave a very hard job to try to
engage kids and get their mindsfocused when kids are still Doom
scrolling in class and thingslike that. But yeah, we just
have to be creative. We have tocontinue to think, okay, how can
we how can we help? How can weinspire? How can we develop that
grit?
Yeah, and I think usingtechnology and social media. To
(35:00):
our advantage, to andrecognizing that it does play a
really big part in a lot ofkiddos roles. I recently worked
with a rap kiddo that, you know,he had a whole Roblox community,
you know. And you know,instantly when I think of Roblox
like, Oh, I just think of allthe risks, you know, the dangers
that could accompany it, right?
But he just the light that shoneon his face when he started
talking about his best friendthat he taught. That he talks
(35:22):
with every day online, but maybenot, you know, physically,
because he lives in the otherside of the state, and what they
in their friendship were able toaccomplish and build and Roblox
and in Minecraft was amazing,you know. And so I think not
dismissing like kiddos ideas ofwhat they inspire to I think
earlier we mentioned, okay,well, my environment and my
(35:44):
experience grew up, led me tolike these interests. Well, a
lot of interest now for kiddosis technology, you know, and so
kind of taking that and, youknow, running with it in a
positive way.
Hillary (35:58):
I like that. You phrase it as using it to our advantage
that it's a tool, like, therecan be a lot of good in it if
there are some guide rails andsome other external supports to
go with it. But yeah, that'ssuper cool that that kid had a
online community already
Unknown (36:14):
well. And, like I said, because we were so isolated for
so long, that's how kidsdeveloped, and that's okay, as
long as, like you said, there'ssome guidelines in there. And,
you know, as parents, we couldsay, okay, you know, when you're
with these groups, here's thesorts of things that we need to
look out for. And it's amazinghow kids will say, you know,
Mom, I got off that groupbecause they were doing this and
(36:34):
that. And the other thing Isaid, you know, that was a
really good choice. Andhopefully you'll be able to find
other groups that do the samesorts of things, as far as your
activities that you like thataren't engaging in that sort of
behavior, because that's nothelpful for anybody.
Yeah, yeah. But like in thosesituations too, it's like the
confidence right, that the kiddohas in their parent to share
something that you know it maybe a little sketchy, right?
(36:57):
Kudos to the parent right forfostering that relationship and
that trust with their kid, wherethey felt safe to say, Yeah, I
need to find another group offriends.
Hillary (37:06):
I think it almost goes back to the stat I shared at the
beginning, where most kids don'tfeel like they belong at school,
and social media and onlinecommunities can often be a
source where they can connectwith people that have interests
that maybe their friends atschool don't. So it's not, you
know, all bad, but it you know,like everything in moderation,
Unknown (37:28):
that's true. You know, our kids have really unique
interests and unique things thatcapture their imagination, that
I don't think we had access to alot of things, because it was
just what's in your communityand what's right here and what's
in your house. And they have,they have access to everything
in the world, all the people inthe world, which is kind of
(37:49):
scary, and all the things in theworld, but hopefully positive
things. Yeah,
Hillary (37:54):
this is such good insight. I loved being able to
take this coffee break with youboth today. So thank you so much
that you could be here. Thankyou. It's a pleasure. Thank you.
And if a child in your life, oryou yourself are really
struggling with a sense ofbelonging, no, you are not
alone. Wedgwood is a place wherehealing begins with
understanding, acceptance andhope. Learn more and get
connected to our team atWedgwood org, slash counseling.
(38:16):
All the info will be linked inthe episode description. Stay
hopeful, stay helpful, and let'shave another coffee break soon.
You.
Hey, it's Hillary. Join me for a helpful and hopeful
chat about mental health in ourcommunity. So grab a cup of
coffee or tea. This isWedgwood's Coffee Break
conversation.
Unknown (00:12):
I'm Kathleen Feeney.
I've been a judge here in KentCounty for 25 years. For 22
years, I spent a lot of timedoing divorce, custody, child
support, paternity, abuse andneglect, delinquency, personal
protection, order, adoptioncases. And now I'm at the court
of appeals. I tell people, forthose 22 years, it was as if I
had the striped shirt on runningup and down the field making the
(00:35):
call in those cases. And now Iam up in the instant replay
booth, and there's 25 of us, andwe sit in panels of three, and
we review everything that's gonein the case, and then we affirm
the ruling that the trial courtmade, or we reverse the ruling
on the field. And it's beentremendous. I've really been
enjoying it. Great. Thank you.
(00:56):
My name is avicizrade. I've beenhere at Wedgwood for closer to
nine years now, currently I'mworking as a wraparound
supervisor within our counselingintegrated department. But
before then, I did haveexperience as a as a wraparound
coordinator. And even beforethen, it's still, you know, my
passion has been integratingyouth and families in their
(01:16):
community. I did after schoolprogramming with our youth
enhancement program back in theday as well.
Hillary (01:21):
Nice. So before we launch into this conversation,
I'd love to hear a little bitabout why you are so passionate
about the well being of kids andfamilies, and what got you into
your work.
Unknown (01:33):
When you are dealing with families who come before
the court, it's a lot ofdifferent perspectives, whether
their kids caught in the middleof their parents' divorce, or
their parents are never married,but they're not agreeing on how
they're going to spend theirtime with their parents. Or it's
juveniles who make bad choices,and we want to help them make
(01:53):
better choices, or children whoare part of the Child Protective
area. These kids didn't chooseany of this, we need to give
them the resources and theencouragement and the ability to
say, Okay, this is not going todefine me. This is not what my
life is going to be all about.
This is a part of my life, and Ineed help getting through it and
(02:13):
figuring out a way to thrivedespite all of this. And how can
you say no? How can you say noto that? Because there's so much
potential and so much excitementand energy and the dreams that
they have, and you just want tosay, Okay, we're doing
everything we can. We're rollingup our sleeves. Here we go. What
do you need? How can we helpyou? What can we do to encourage
(02:34):
you? How can we help you makebetter choices? Because we know
your brain isn't fully developeduntil you're like 24 or 26 and
there's going to be mistakes.
Great. Let's use them forlearning opportunities, so it
just kind of builds on itself.
And these kids, they they needso much and they deserve so
much. And when you have anopportunity like we have to
(02:55):
reach out to them and work withthem. There is nothing that's
better.
Hillary (03:01):
I love that.
Unknown (03:03):
Yeah. Similarly, you know, we as the in the
wraparound program, we work witha lot of youth that find
themselves in situations wherethey've given up hope, or even
their parents or caregivers havesimilarly given up hope on them.
And so my passion, what I lovedoing, is really encouraging
that hope, again, instilling asense of belonging, and again,
(03:25):
the ability to move forward fromobstacles that you know,
sometimes youth like you said,don't have much to do take part
in right? And so knowing, okay,you have a system of support
here that can help you, youknow, go forth and maintain your
goals. Yeah, that's
Hillary (03:42):
great. So I read recently that nearly half of
kids don't feel a strong senseof belonging in their schools,
which is really sad to hear. Isthis what you're seeing in your
circles and in your work? Domost kids feel like they don't
fit in
Unknown (03:56):
absolutely it's amazing. I think COVID really
did a huge disservice to ourkids. Obviously, it did a huge
disservice to everybody, but thefact that they couldn't go to
school, they couldn't make thoseconnections, and school is where
you do so much of that social,emotional learning piece. You
learn to read cues, you learn tocommunicate. So what did our
kids do? They had to sit behindscreens, be more isolated, be
(04:20):
more on their own and thenrelying so much more on their
phones, and those sorts ofthings where we know a lot of
not very nice things happen, alot of cyber bullying and things
like that. And it's just, Ithink it's been really, really
hard for our kids. The Kidsthese days are extremely
anxious, and lots of them arevery depressed because of things
(04:43):
going on in the world, becauseof things that happen within
their family. Their parents arelosing their job, or they got to
move, or somebody who dies, orwhatever that it is, but they
have so much on their plateright now, and they're trying to
deal with so much, you know, theworld is getting warm, or
there's not going to be any hopefor the future. And so these.
Kids, really, they become veryisolated and very withdrawn. And
(05:05):
the studies all show that havingkids at school gives them that
opportunity to find theresources the teachers who are
going to help get an IEP or a504 if they need assistance with
that. And just by beingconnected to one person, just
one person at the school. It canbe a teacher, it can be a social
worker, it can be the schoollunch lady, or it can be the
(05:26):
school librarian or thecustodian, or a coach or an
assistant coach, somebody whoexpects to see them there, finds
joy from interacting with them.
That gets our kids to come toschool, and so they can
hopefully make up for some ofthose that lost opportunity to
learn those social interactionskills that'll keep them engaged
and and hopeful.
(05:49):
Yeah, man, I think you saideverything to a T right there
within our program, we're seeinga lot of kiddos express an
interest in and being includedin belonging and finding a
social circle for themselves,and it's it's really our part,
you know, as adults, you know,as caregivers, as supports, to
guide them, like you said to theto the right people that can
(06:12):
really help them explore theirinterests, but also follow
through with them. I thinkthat's something that I really
do appreciate from my program,is not only are we pointing them
to the right direction, rightwe're making sure that they feel
supported even after that, thattheir caregivers also feel
supported in keeping their kidengaged in this type of program
(06:33):
or in whatever goals they havethemselves as caregivers too.
Hillary (06:37):
So let's talk about this idea of belonging a little
bit from your perspectives, whatdoes it mean for a child to feel
a sense of belonging? And thenon the flip side, what are some
signs that a kid might bestruggling with feeling like
they don't fit in or have aplace in this world?
Unknown (06:52):
I think the belonging is that that there's people who
care for them and care aboutthem, that they feel like they
are connected, whether it's toother adults or other youth,
because it's that desire forconnection that kind of feeds
our basic needs, right? What'sit Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
(07:13):
exactly, exactly, and whathappens when that doesn't occur?
It's isolation, it's depression.
It is not wanting to be involvedin anything. It is a lot of kids
who then seek to deal with thatloss of the dopamine by using
substances or sitting behindtheir screens and doom scrolling
(07:35):
and and not engaging. We seethat a lot kids not going to
school. That's one of the bigthings, too. So so
Hillary (07:43):
when they feel like they don't belong somewhere,
they kind of write it off, like,I don't need to be there. Then,
Unknown (07:50):
yeah, yeah. I think we see a lot of kiddos write it off
like you say, and also justcompletely, even, you know, stop
believing in their own, youknow, abilities and that as
well, like, yes, they wrote itoff, that, that particular
opportunity. But then, you know,what I hate seeing in youth too,
is that okay, I'm not going totake part of anything else,
(08:12):
right? And it's that sense ofhopeless that just kind of
snowballs and turns into those,those isolation factors that you
know you mentioned, I thinksomething else that I see too is
in in a kiddos need to feelaccepted. They sometimes join
(08:33):
different, you know, not ashealthy circles, right? Or they
turn it into behaviors that getthem into more trouble, right?
So we want to make sure that thecircles that they are in are
positive ones, right? Thatthey're in it, you know, because
they themselves, theiridentities are being, are being
(08:54):
filled and and not expressed inanother, different way, yeah, I
thinkwith identities too, so much of
the LGBTQ plus community, thosekids especially, are at risk. I
heard one time that we have atany point in time, 2200 homeless
youth wandering around KentCounty at any point in time.
(09:17):
It's probably larger than that,because that wasn't from several
years ago, and a huge percentageof those kids are LGBTQ plus.
And it just breaks my heart thatthese kids, who probably need
our support more than ever,especially now, are out there
floating around and being takenadvantage of. I mean, we have
the Manasa project, which dealswith human trafficking, and I
(09:39):
wish they were out of business,but they're not, and they're
thriving. And I have kids whoare recruiting other kids. When
I say I have kids, I shouldalways mention this, not my own
children, but they're my kids,right? Yeah, I have kids who are
recruiting other kids to work inthese organizations, and it
makes them feel like they'repart of something they get in
with. These promises, and thenall of a sudden, everything
(10:01):
turns bad, and they don't knowhow to pull themselves out of
it. And it's just it's sodangerous, and we see kids
making choices that they shouldnever have to make or never want
to make, because they just needto survive. And we need to get
our kids beyond just surviving.
And you mentioned just, youknow, children wandering, right?
(10:22):
Whether they be part of the LGBTcommunity or other marginalized
groups, right? They're wonderingnow, right? But how were they,
you know, in high school, didwe? Did they have a supportive
hand back then to kind of guidethem? And is, this is kind of
the cusp, right? You seehomeless youth, right? But you
know, we also need to see thosesigns of of a kid, you know,
(10:44):
faltering in their social groupsor at school too, and catch it
there.
Hillary (10:49):
And I think when you're talking about the Manasseh
project and our and humantrafficking and falling into the
wrong circles, I think that's agood example of how strongly
kids want to belong, becausethey will even be okay with
joining something or being apart of something that they
probably, deep down, know is notgood or healthy for them, but
(11:10):
they just want to belong morethan they want to be safe or
healthy or different, right?
Yeah, we
Unknown (11:16):
have a kid right now in our wraparound program that is
on juvenile probation, and it'sbecause he's stealing items and
and he's giving it to thesecircles, and him stealing and
giving these items, it's himthinking, Okay, we're I'm part
of this circle. I want theiracceptance, right? But there has
to be another way.
Hillary (11:35):
Why? Why do you think it's so important and then so
hard for kids to feel like theybelong.
Unknown (11:44):
It's important because it's part of their social
development, right? You youlearn, you learn how to parent
from your parents, right? And somany kids that we have who are
either homeless or their familydynamic was impacted by trauma.
I mean, we see generationaltrauma that goes back 345,
(12:06):
generations, and they can't seemto get out of that cycle. So we
try to help kids realize that,okay, just because this happened
to you doesn't mean that you'rea bad person or that this is the
way it's supposed to be. But wecan make strides beyond that,
the dynamics just are sodifficult for these kiddos, and
(12:29):
we need wraparound services. Weneed the community services, you
know, the Wedgwood's, theBethany Christian Services, the
Catholic Social Services, the,you know, samaritas. We need all
those folks pulling together forour kids.
Hillary (12:43):
So how can we help? How do we foster an environment of
inclusion and support for kids?
Unknown (12:51):
Man, I think it's it's providing a listening ear. It's
being cued in to those signsthat kids are giving. You're not
gonna be. They're never gonna beonce to outright tell you, I
need help in this, you know, I'msure there are kids like that,
but, you know, I know, growingup, me myself, I was really
dependent on someone in mycorner, knowing, like, hey, when
(13:15):
I needed help and when I wascrying out for for that
assistance. And, you know,again, following through with
it, you know, because that'sthat's to me, how you know or
someone does actually care. It'snot just you know them pointing
you to a resource and dismissingyou know, it's following through
and making sure that you'redoing okay. And if there's
(13:37):
anything else that they could bemore of a help with just a
relationship, yeah, creating arelationship.
But that's why I think that wehave to kind of think of it. I
think of it in terms of, like,three eyes. So you want to
invite kids into your space, orinvite yourself into their
space, whether it's kids you seeat work or on your church or in
(13:58):
your family or in yourneighborhood that seem to be
falling between the cracks atschool, whether school has or
outreach for that, and invitethem in. You know, do you want
to go to a ball game? Do youwant to come over for lunch? Do
you want to go get a coffee orsomething like that? Go to
frosty boy, which is open nowand and, you know, and kind of
(14:19):
get to know them and then findout what inspires them, right?
You know, what do you like? Doyou like sports? You know, we
could go to a game. Do you likeart? Oh my gosh, there's so much
art in this community. Do youlike going fishing? We could do
that and just try to kind offigure out what feeds them. It's
kind of like figuring out theirlove language, right? Which is
really, really important,because then they know that
(14:40):
you're interested in them, andhow can the two of you connect?
And then imagine, okay, how canwe take you your interest in
these things, and imagine how wecan get you connected to the
larger community. Can we get youinvolved in a choir, if you love
to sing, can we get you involvedin, like, a cooking class? They
have great cooking classes.
Community College, or chef Jennaup at amore, she does that all
(15:01):
the time. Art they have stuff atGrand Rapids Art Museum all the
time for free. Can we do that?
Can we go to a ball game? Can wego hiking? What about dogs? Do
you like dogs? Let's go. We canvolunteer at the Humane Society.
And it's just those sorts ofthings, because truly it is
having one adult in your lifewho can be your forever adult. I
(15:24):
went to a thing, and I can'tremember the name of the
program, but he was from NewYork, and it was a program
called you've got to believe hisname was Pat. And he said every
person out there, especiallykids that are aging out of
foster care, they need apermanent adult. It doesn't mean
that you have to adopt them, butit has to be somebody that they
can always call. My car brokedown. Can you help me? I'm in
(15:46):
jail. Can you come and bail meout? I need some grocery money.
Can you do this? And it was allabout having that person as your
permanent adult, and it made allthe sense in the world, because
so many kids who age out offoster care and who have been in
the system for forever end upgetting not going to college,
getting involved in criminalactivity, not meeting their full
(16:10):
potential. So we want to be ableto provide them with those
connections. So kind of youknow, inviting those kids to
join your life, finding out whattheir interests are imagining
how we can get them reconnectedto the community. We all have
that opportunity. We all have asuperpower to do that. And we
all have the superpower ofkindness, which I wish everybody
(16:31):
would exercise.
Yeah, so I think that's one ofthe pillars with wraparound that
I do really like, is fosteringthose natural supports, or those
more creative supports it on thecommunity. It's super easier,
easy for me to put on my casemanagement hat and say, okay,
Arbor circle has this. We atWedgwood have this. You know, go
connect to your school. But likeyou say, Judge Feeney, it's
really creating an interest.
Inventory with a with a kiddo,see what they are passionate
(16:54):
about, what they are inspiredabout, and then sometimes they
already have that connection intheir own families or in their
communities already, and it'sinviting the kiddos to see that
person in a different light anda different perspective, so they
can able, you know, to reach outand connect to more resources
out in the
Hillary (17:13):
community. So how do community supports and services
help kids build connections andfeel secure? And then what sort
of role does the court systemplay in helping kids find
stability and belonging?
Unknown (17:26):
Well, I'll let you know the first part.
So I think community supportsallow a kid, a family, to feel
confident in the communityaround them, to know that they
have support and have a personor a group of individuals that
can help them in whatever areaof need, that they can go to
(17:50):
them in a time of need and say,like, you say like, it's a
person that may not knoweverything, but it's a trusted
person that can do the researchwith you and kind of struggle
bust it with, yeah, you know toemphasize and empathize with you
in that moment and help you getto a better spot. I think that's
a sense of community. It's,it's, it's, there's no
(18:11):
definition on how I thinkexperience that community member
has to be, but again, it has tobe someone that has kindness and
has that tenacity to make surethat the person that they're
working with gets to a better
Hillary (18:26):
spot in life. I feel like I hear the phrase it takes
a village a lot around whenpeople have babies, you know,
when new moms newborns. But thatextends past that stage into the
rest of your life too. It doestake a village kind of get
through life together.
Unknown (18:40):
Yeah, no, I think of even like young adults, you
know, they're babies in theworld, you know. I think of high
school teaching you, you know,all your core fundamentals and
you know, but like you, in thathigh school age of kiddos, they
also need people to help themthrough those, those social
situations, too, that they, youknow, are crying out for. I keep
(19:02):
telling people, even though, youknow, we watch kids in college,
their brains still aren't fullyfun, fully developed, yeah, and
so there's just, you know,whether you're watching babies
on the football field or babieson the basketball field or
softball or golf or whatever itis, they're still all babies. So
I'm sorry, a bit bumped intothat with respect to the court
system, though, we are, I think,uniquely able to engage kids. So
(19:28):
for example, in our juveniledelinquency cases, we have
community probation officers. Soour probation officers are in
the community. You shouldn'thave to go more than a mile from
wherever you live to get to acenter where the probation
officer is and they'll contactyou in your school, at your
home, those sorts of things, andthen they're able to be
connected with the police inthat area, with the schools in
(19:50):
that area, with the people inthe area and the resources so
they can connect their kids whohave made some bad choices and
are in court with us, into thoseservices with. Respect to the
child neglect cases, abuse andneglect cases, when they come
into court, then we have casemanagers. We have a whole group
of people. We have attorneys whoare representing them, and if
(20:11):
the attorneys think that theyneed another attorney to
represent what the kids wantversus what their best interests
are, we have another attorneythere. We have attorneys
representing the parents, andwe're all trying to pull
together to make sure that thatfamily has all the services that
they need, because we want toreunify them in a healthy
manner. So we're doingeverything we can. Sometimes, I
hate to say this, but sometimesthe judges, the lawyers, the
(20:34):
probation officers, we're themost stable people that they
have in their lives, and that'sreally quite sad, but at least
we're stable people, and we havekids, we have court appointed
special advocates to our CASASare amazing, but sometimes the
attorneys are the one who getthe call I'm someplace I can't
get home. It's two o'clock inthe morning. Will you come pick
(20:55):
me up? And the attorney will gopick them up. I'm doing this.
This is what's happening. Or,you know, I've just decided I'm
pregnant. What do I do now? Andso we can be resources for them.
So the court tries to support asmuch as we can with respect to
providing guidance, providingassistance, providing resources,
connecting them with resources,helping them make good choices,
(21:17):
celebrating when we havesuccesses, yeah, encouraging
them when we have failures thatokay, this isn't going to define
you. We can move beyond this.
Let's What lessons have welearned? And let's get going
again. So it's, it's a it's aprivilege to be able to work
with families when they're atthe crossroads that oftentimes
our families are at, andsometimes they're in and out,
because they learn the lessonreally quickly, and sometimes I
(21:40):
have the same people for 10 or15 years. So,
Hillary (21:45):
but then how cool on?
I'll use cool loosely, Isuppose, how cool that you are
still there. You are still youand your team are still there,
supporting them, even all thoseyears later, too. That is a real
sense of stability.
Unknown (21:58):
Yes, yes. And I still have people calling from my
cases from before. So, like, I'mlike, just down the street.
Hillary (22:05):
That's nice, yeah? So this goes beyond kids, right?
Like, I mean us adults, we wantto feel like we belong and fit
in too. So how do we help kidsfind belonging when we are also
still looking for a sense ofbelonging?
Unknown (22:20):
Yeah, I something that I always encourage our
wraparound caregivers is justmodeling through the hardships,
right? I think of so many timesI wanted to reach out to a
particular rock climbing, youknow, course, that I want to do
downtown, but I feel hesitantbecause I don't think, oh, I
don't belong, you know, Ihaven't I've been so out of
shape for a while, like, howcould I be successful in this?
(22:43):
But I think kiddos need to knowthat their parents kind of have
that same hesitations too, youknow, but they're willing to
work through it and kind of takethat first step forward in a
direction that they know ishard, but at the end, it's going
to be such a great, you know,life involvement there too. It's
a good reminder
Hillary (23:00):
that, like us as adults, we don't have to have it
all together. Have it alltogether to show kids. Well, we
can. We can struggle with thingstoo, but it's the fact that we
try, yeah, we work on it
Unknown (23:09):
and and I think being willing to tell your kids that
you're sorry, I don't rememberhearing that when I was growing
up and being able to tell mykids I'm sorry and that I've
made mistakes, and I'm hopingthat we can learn and move
forward, I think is really hugefor kids, because they realize
(23:30):
that, wow, mistakes and learningfrom those mistakes that happens
even later in life. Yeah, if Ican say that, yeah, and finding
ways to reconnect with yourkids. So I was always involved
in sports. I did competitivesports, starting when I was
five, because I had two olderbrothers, and I did everything
that they did, and scholarshipsto go and play in college and
(23:53):
things like that. And so Ialways thought, oh, that's going
to be what I'm going to connectwith my kids. Yes, no. So after
they got done with the littlestuff. It's like, Oh, I was
gonna go to high schoolbasketball games and swim meets
and things like that. We didthat for a little while, but not
in high school. And it's like,okay, well, we're gonna go to
Comic Cons. We're gonna do, youknow, get dressed up and go to
(24:13):
see, to eat, to and do artthings and and it's wonderful.
But you just have to kind ofmeet your kids where they are
and help them to realize thatyou are kind of the product of
your upbringing. And you know,none of it was perfect, and we
can all find things that we lovetogether, whether it's a same TV
show that we like to watch orgoing and doing fun things, game
(24:36):
night, that sort of thing. So Ithink our kids need to see us
modeling that. As you said, thatwe want to belong. We want to be
part of their lives, and that'sokay.
Hillary (24:48):
I love that. So what happens? What changes when kids
feel like they belong, when wefeel like we belong,
Unknown (24:57):
I think we get a greater. Sense of trust, and I
think inclusion or belonging inour circles a greater confidence
right to speak up on concernsthat we may have, or even a
greater confidence to share thepositives too, right? I think
(25:17):
that's something that Ipersonally struggle with. Right?
Is sharing, okay? Yeah, theywant to hear about my my good
stuff that's going on too. Theycare, right? So I think that's
something that we can model, youknow, as adults to kiddos as
well.
I think that the biggest thingthat we can do is continue to
encourage kids to strive. Wewere talking before we came on
(25:40):
that Angela Duckworth had agreat TED Talk about a study
that they did to determinesuccess in life. They tested
kids at Harvard and at WestPoint and Boeing and University
of Michigan and wherever Harvardall over the place to determine,
well, was it that? Did you go topreschool? Is that the
(26:02):
determining factor your IQ or ordid you live here or there,
whatever? And the greatestdeterminer of success in life
was grit, the unwaveringdedication to an objective or
some goal. And so our jobs asadults are to help kids and help
people develop grit. It's notthe easiest thing in the world
(26:24):
to do, because oftentimes lifepushes you down and then pushes
you down again, and then pushesyou down repeatedly to the point
where you've kind of given up.
But our whole goal is to helpkids understand that they are
the masters of their universe,and they're the ones who are
going to determine what happensfor the rest of their lives, the
things that have happened tothem in the past, especially
when we're dealing with kids whohave trauma and adults who have
(26:45):
trauma, is that those eventsdon't have to define them. They
obviously are part of what'smaking them who they are, but
they can move beyond that. Andso I think that helping people
develop grit, helping youngpeople develop grit, so they
have that in their older life,as they start to mature, is
critically important to makesure that they can find
(27:07):
happiness and figure out thatokay, this may not be what I
started out doing, but I lovethis, and I want to keep doing
it, so I think that's what keepsus doing the kind of work that
we do.
Yeah, and hearing that, though,I also think of like, care for
the caregiver and making surethat they have their own grit.
And, you know when, when, youknow, adolescents give them
(27:29):
their own troubles. Yeah?
Because, like, we have all mengive us troubles. You know,
we're all babies just goingthrough new environments, right?
Um, our caregivers are peoplethat we have deemed supports
able to continue to hold ourhands and guide us through that,
and I think that that's animportant aspect that I like
with wraparound or even at theservices here at Wedgwood, we're
(27:50):
always checking in withcaregivers as well. I think
Hillary (27:54):
when you talk about developing grit too, I have not
heard this TED talk, but it willbe adding it to my list. I
imagine that it's nearimpossible to develop grit on
your own, like you probably needsomebody there to help you,
because, like you said, lifewill knock you down and then
again and again, and after awhile, it gets a little hard to
get up on your own. And sohaving somebody there who can
(28:17):
help pick you back up, help keepyou going, dust you off, try
again is important. So samething with caregivers. You know
you need a support. Needsomewhere where you know you can
open up and be vulnerable andsay, Hey, I'm really struggling.
And feel like it's okay for meto say that here, yes,
Unknown (28:34):
yeah, absolutely.
Whether, whether you find otherpeople to confide in, or you
journal, I journal all the time,walk the dog, go out and do
things bake. I love people wholove to bake. I love to bake.
And it's those sorts of thingsthat'll that'll keep you moving
forward, because it's true. Somany people in the work that we
(28:56):
do get burned out and get burnedout very, very quickly, because
it's so all encompassing, andyou have to make sure that you
take care of yourself, or youtake care of the other people
around you. Because when we doChild Protective work, there are
the case managers, there are thetherapists, there are the
wraparound folks, there's theCommunity Living supports,
(29:16):
there's the parent to parentmentors. I mean, it's literally,
you have the village right incourt with us when we have our
hearings, and it's all thesepeople who are pouring
themselves into these familiesand trying to help them make
these better choices and to maketheir lives better so we can
reunify these kids. And it's andit's huge, difficult work, but
so affirming when it works, andeven sometimes when it doesn't
(29:44):
work, and we find new foreverfamilies for these kids. You
have to understand that, okay,there's only so much grief that
we can absorb in our. Lives, andwe have to find good ways to
handle that, so otherwise, weend up not being able to give to
(30:05):
feed into others, to feed thatpositivity into others.
Hillary (30:13):
So I always like to make sure that these coffee
breaks are hopeful and helpful.
So for this hopeful piece, whatgives you hope when it comes to
helping children findingbelonging,
Unknown (30:27):
I like hearing the stories that the kids are still
wanting to be accepted, wantingto join a circle, even if it is
done in the wrong way, whereasmaybe they join the wrong
circle, get themselves introuble. I love the fact that
they are still willing, becausethen that is an energy that we
(30:50):
can redirect and just guide in amore positive way. Yes, I'm Yes.
I like working with kiddos.
Unfortunately, are moreisolated, right? But I it's in
those situations where we needto grow their their
determination and in allowingthemselves to explore and get
(31:12):
more involved with other circlestoo.
I think kids naturally havehopes and dreams and
aspirations, and if you can findout from them what those hopes
and dreams and aspirations are,and say, Okay, what can we do?
How can we develop a plan tohelp you with this? It's
awesome, because then it helpsthem to see beyond just today,
(31:35):
yeah, I think kids are a lotmore informed today about what's
going on in the world, what'sgoing on internationally, what's
going on with the environment,what's going on politically. And
that's a lot for a developingbrain to try to handle. It's a
lot for an adult brain to tryand handle Absolutely,
absolutely. And so if we can tryto keep them focused and develop
(31:59):
that grit, it's hard, it'sreally, really hard to do, but
that connection, whether you'rethe one who's connected to them,
or you find somebody else who'sreally into that, and make sure
that you're encouraging thatsort of a connection. And it
could be just going to a gamenight with like, once a month
with people, and that might bewhat it is, or working with
(32:21):
kids, or finding a way to do it,or volunteering. I love
volunteers. I mean, talk aboutyour giving, and you're
receiving so much, whether it's,you know, doing the rough
readers at the library, or I'vegot a West Michigan therapy dog,
and that's just, it's sotremendously engaging, because
there's people loving on yourdog, and it's just making them
(32:43):
feel so good, and it's makingyou feel so good that you're
helping them to feel so good.
And it's those sort of things.
So I just these kids have theirwhole lives ahead of them, then
we just have to help them becomethe best that they can be, and
let them realize that they mighthave dreams now that might be
different dreams next week, thatmay be different dreams next
(33:03):
year, but that's okay, and we'lljust support them and find new
ways that we connect them. So,yeah, no, I think the important
part is like that A dream iskept alive. Yeah, right. And it
doesn't matter if it changesfrom day to day, like you
mentioned, but it's again,having that determination, you
know, just to keep, keepaspiring for something
different, for something betterthan what you're finding
yourself in right now. I love
Hillary (33:25):
that. And so for the helpful piece, what are some
strategies to foster a strongersense of belonging and
confidence in kids and maybeeven ourselves?
Unknown (33:34):
I think just getting involved in community and events
helping kids figure out, okay,what are the three things that
you think you'd like toinvestigate, whether it's
volunteering pieces or art orsports or whatever that might
be, book reading, going to thelibrary, getting in a book club,
and then trying to say, okay,how can we make this work with
(33:57):
your schedule? Because kids arereally overbooked these days
too, and how can we kind of getyou off your devices and get you
out in the world and meaningfulways? So for the most part,
that's a difficult thing to dowith with our kids in general, I
think because they're sodependent on that, I'm really
(34:17):
hoping that schools, and I knowpeople are going to not like
this very much, there's a pushto keep cells phones out of
schools, and I'm a big fan inthe old days, if our parents
need to get a hold of us orthere's an emergency, they'd
contact the principal's office,they come and find us, but
definitely out of out of middleschools and elementary schools,
and then limit their ability tobe available while they're in
(34:38):
high schools. Yeah, teachershave a very hard job to try to
engage kids and get their mindsfocused when kids are still Doom
scrolling in class and thingslike that. But yeah, we just
have to be creative. We have tocontinue to think, okay, how can
we how can we help? How can weinspire? How can we develop that
grit?
Yeah, and I think usingtechnology and social media. To
(35:00):
our advantage, to andrecognizing that it does play a
really big part in a lot ofkiddos roles. I recently worked
with a rap kiddo that, you know,he had a whole Roblox community,
you know. And you know,instantly when I think of Roblox
like, Oh, I just think of allthe risks, you know, the dangers
that could accompany it, right?
But he just the light that shoneon his face when he started
talking about his best friendthat he taught. That he talks
(35:22):
with every day online, but maybenot, you know, physically,
because he lives in the otherside of the state, and what they
in their friendship were able toaccomplish and build and Roblox
and in Minecraft was amazing,you know. And so I think not
dismissing like kiddos ideas ofwhat they inspire to I think
earlier we mentioned, okay,well, my environment and my
(35:44):
experience grew up, led me tolike these interests. Well, a
lot of interest now for kiddosis technology, you know, and so
kind of taking that and, youknow, running with it in a
positive way.
Hillary (35:58):
I like that. You phrase it as using it to our advantage
that it's a tool, like, therecan be a lot of good in it if
there are some guide rails andsome other external supports to
go with it. But yeah, that'ssuper cool that that kid had a
online community already
Unknown (36:14):
well. And, like I said, because we were so isolated for
so long, that's how kidsdeveloped, and that's okay, as
long as, like you said, there'ssome guidelines in there. And,
you know, as parents, we couldsay, okay, you know, when you're
with these groups, here's thesorts of things that we need to
look out for. And it's amazinghow kids will say, you know,
Mom, I got off that groupbecause they were doing this and
(36:34):
that. And the other thing Isaid, you know, that was a
really good choice. Andhopefully you'll be able to find
other groups that do the samesorts of things, as far as your
activities that you like thataren't engaging in that sort of
behavior, because that's nothelpful for anybody.
Yeah, yeah. But like in thosesituations too, it's like the
confidence right, that the kiddohas in their parent to share
something that you know it maybe a little sketchy, right?
(36:57):
Kudos to the parent right forfostering that relationship and
that trust with their kid, wherethey felt safe to say, Yeah, I
need to find another group offriends.
Hillary (37:06):
I think it almost goes back to the stat I shared at the
beginning, where most kids don'tfeel like they belong at school,
and social media and onlinecommunities can often be a
source where they can connectwith people that have interests
that maybe their friends atschool don't. So it's not, you
know, all bad, but it you know,like everything in moderation,
Unknown (37:28):
that's true. You know, our kids have really unique
interests and unique things thatcapture their imagination, that
I don't think we had access to alot of things, because it was
just what's in your communityand what's right here and what's
in your house. And they have,they have access to everything
in the world, all the people inthe world, which is kind of
(37:49):
scary, and all the things in theworld, but hopefully positive
things. Yeah,
Hillary (37:54):
this is such good insight. I loved being able to
take this coffee break with youboth today. So thank you so much
that you could be here. Thankyou. It's a pleasure. Thank you.
And if a child in your life, oryou yourself are really
struggling with a sense ofbelonging, no, you are not
alone. Wedgwood is a place wherehealing begins with
understanding, acceptance andhope. Learn more and get
connected to our team atWedgwood org, slash counseling.
(38:16):
All the info will be linked inthe episode description. Stay
hopeful, stay helpful, and let'shave another coffee break soon.
You.
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