Episode Transcript
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Hillary (00:00):
Hey, it's Hilary. Join
me for a helpful and hopeful
chat about mental health in ourcommunity. So grab a cup of
coffee or tea. This isWedgwood's Coffee Break
conversation. Welcome to SeasonFive. I am so happy to be back
brewing up hope through helpfuland hopeful conversations with
you our brew crew. Today, I amtalking with a really cool
(00:22):
guest. Jason Leroux, thanks forbeing here. Thanks for having
me. Hilary. So I'll let youintroduce yourself a little
Jason Lheureux (00:27):
bit Sure. My
name's Jason LaRue. I'm a
director of residential programshere at Wedgwood Christian
Services. I've been at Wedgwoodfor about 15 years this year,
and I supervise some of theresidential homes where we have
youth living in care, and thenthe therapists and staff that
help support those programsgreat.
Hillary (00:45):
So what inspired you to
get involved in this work and
advocate for kids?
Jason Lheureux (00:50):
You know, I
think really, it would be a
similar story from a lot ofemployees at a certain point in,
you know, in my life, in myyounger years, you know, I faced
adversity, faced challenges, andduring those times, there's just
one or two, you know, trustedadults that really helped me
through that. And so we, youknow, we talk a lot about how it
just takes one trusted adult, orlike, one support, to really
(01:13):
turn things around in children'slives, and we see that in our
work. But also, you know, Ithink if we look back, we all
had those moments where wereally needed somebody, and I
think it just makes you want togive back. I
Hillary (01:25):
love that. So you were
a part of Wedgwood's state of
the child panel conversation,which was super insightful, and
so for our listeners and viewersthat couldn't be there, how
would you summarize what thekids who led the conversation
and you as the panel kind oftalked about, and what is the
state of the child?
Jason Lheureux (01:41):
Sure, I think
the state of the child is always
changing and very exciting andvery complicated the world these
days and the lives that ourchildren lead are multifaceted
and complex and definitely aredeserving the time. And so for
me, the state of the child eventis really cool, because it's not
just a professionals conference.
It really brings people that areyouth, that are parents, that
(02:05):
are involved in the work, thatare in leadership roles, you
know, or that are justinterested in mental health. And
so the cool thing about thepanel and about the whole event
is getting to talk about youthand ways that we can create
successes for children, but froma variety of different
perspectives.
Hillary (02:25):
And you kind of touched
on this a little bit, but at the
state of the child, one of thethings I took away was that it's
the state of the child is kindof up to us, and it's one adult
can make a huge difference forkids. So what does it mean to
show up for a kid to be apositive adult, and does it
always have to be a parent? No,
Jason Lheureux (02:47):
it certainly
doesn't always have to be a
parent. And sometimes youthgravitate towards or feel trust
and respect and are ready to beheard and helped by people that
aren't their parents, justbecause it's not their parents.
So key number one isn't thatit's you as the parent. The key
number one is that it's a safeperson and that those
(03:07):
connections are happening, andthen there need, does need to be
communication in the family. Youknow, if you're receiving
services, your youth has atherapist, it's not appropriate
to say, Hey, what did you talkabout? I want to know everything
that happened in therapy, but itis important to say, hey, you
know, do you like your therapistto feel comfortable or then, if
it's a coach or a teacher or afamily member or a trusted
(03:30):
friend, that's number one isthat it's that that person is
involved in their life, and it'sa person that you, as a parent,
know for. And then showing upreally just means that just
showing up. But sometimes, asadults, we try to show up with
youth, but it's on our terms, orit's what we think the youth
(03:50):
wants, or we try to support andrelate to our child the way
that, you know, like I wouldwant my adult friends to relate
and support me, and it'sdifferent than youth. So showing
up means showing up present,being physically present, but it
also means asking questions andgetting to know your child so
that when you are showing up,you're not providing them the
(04:10):
help that you want to provide.
You're providing them the helpand support that they're in need
and they need, and they'rethey're looking for. Yeah,
Hillary (04:17):
kids are their own
person. Sometimes it's hard to
remember that kids are people,but they are they're unique, and
they have their own wants andneeds. And
Jason Lheureux (04:25):
it's
surprisingly surprising how
often adults forget that kidsare people. And in some of the
trainings that I do, that's oneof the first reminders is just
because someone is 456, 17,doesn't mean that they don't
deserve the same respect thatyou would treat adults or that
you would want to receive as anadult, or that you can't have
(04:45):
hard conversations with them ortake them seriously. They may be
smaller people, but they are100% their own, autonomous
individual human beings. Fromthe first second that baby rolls
over or cries for the first timeas they're saying, Hey, this is
me. Me and I'm gonna get myneeds met. They don't turn 18,
and the day they move out, theyget their human card. So I think
(05:07):
as parents, the sooner we startrelating to them, you know, as
real people, the better.
Hillary (05:12):
Yeah, yeah. I'd love to
hear how you see the impact of
this presence or just showing upor absence, I suppose, of an
adult in the kids you work with?
Yeah,
Jason Lheureux (05:25):
I think at
Wedgwood Christian Services, we
do a lot of mental healthservices, and that is showing up
for the children, but showing upin that kind of formal,
structured way, because, hey, weare a therapist or a very youth
treatment specialist, not havingan adult in the child's life is
one of the number one reasonswhy I think children end up here
(05:49):
is we're trying to recapturethat relationship, or try to
provide something for that youththat they haven't experienced
elsewhere. So it starts, youknow, sometimes with the service
providers, but my goal is alwaysto be handing that back off to
the community. Is to take ayouth or, you know, even an
adult, that's struggling andhaving a hard time, therapy is
(06:12):
fantastic, but the real workhappens in between those
sessions, and the real workhappens in that child or that a
young adult's life when they'remaking decisions for what they
want to kind of do with thosetherapeutic experiences, and so
seeing clients come into ourcare lacking those supports or
those resources or thoseconnections, helping to kind of
(06:34):
jump start that and thenreconnecting youth to their
natural communities, the peoplethat care about them that will
be here long term. I think it'sone of my favorite things about
the work. In all honesty, have
Hillary (06:46):
you seen a kid come in,
maybe without any real positive
adult support, and then findingsome of that here, and it really
changing the trajectory of theirlife?
Jason Lheureux (06:58):
I think for the
US that are doing the work here.
Those days are really important.
You don't get them all the time,but when you have a moment in
the work where you feel like,hey, I really connected with
this youth or or I made adifference, it's very
meaningful. We've we almostalways are getting youth into
care that don't have many orsometimes any connections.
(07:21):
Sometimes our clients have beeninvolved in therapies or out of
home placements for a long time,and by a long time, sometimes, I
mean years. Sometimes we'regetting clients who have
experienced pretty significanttrauma and have been in as many
as 1112, 13 differentplacements. So if we talk about
(07:41):
the importance of relationshipsand creating those connections,
can you imagine what your lifewould be like and your just
views of the world and yoursense of attachment if you had
changed homes and families 12 or13 times? And so when we have
youth come to Wedgwood to stayin like in our residential
(08:02):
treatment programs, it really ismy goal that this is the last
placement before they find theirpermanent home. You know, when
you hear the stories from someof these youth, how resilient
they've had to be and how muchthey've been through and still
just somehow, how hopeful somany of them are. So then my
(08:23):
goal is, hey, this I just reallyhope this is the last placement.
So how can we do that work andget the clients ready for the
community? And that then meansthat advocacy too about building
those resources and thosesupports, but to have a youth
come to care in that situationwith maybe no connections, you
know, no family. Some of ouryouth have no family. You know,
(08:46):
terminated parental connectrelationships or and then to see
them kind of struggle and workthrough their trauma, but then
succeed, you know, and thendischarge successfully. You
know, as a client we had just aweek or two ago that has been
with us for over three years,and he'd been in care for many
years before that. And then tohave that client be stable and
(09:11):
be ready and be willing tocreate those connections,
practice, those with us here andthen get adopted. You know, it's
really nice to see
Hillary (09:23):
that's really
beautiful. And to have a kid
who, you know, 13 differentplacements, and the average age
of kids here, I think, is like15. So to have that many moves
and that much instability, Idoes the bulk of the work really
end up being teaching kids likehow to make those healthy
attachments and find healthyadults.
Jason Lheureux (09:47):
I think it's
really helping them to believe
that the world can be different,helping them to see that they do
matter, that they do havemeaning, that this has been
their experience so far, but it.
Could be so much different. Sothose multiple placement, or
those years in care, are usuallya combination of all of the
traumas that the youth have beenthrough that they just lack that
(10:10):
ability to understand and tokind of cope through that. And
then when that's paired with notthe right placement at not the
right time, it makessustainability really difficult.
So I like to think that Wedgwoodhelps to reinstall hope into the
children that they can believethat their lives can be
different. That's the thingabout trauma, is it sort of
(10:31):
warps your your brain and yourmindset to just believe, well,
this is just how it is. Youknow, this is how life is and it
can't be different, which issomething as adults, I think we
take for granted. Of for is wehave many more years of
experience of things working outwell for us most of the time,
that it gives us a sense ofperspective and resiliency, and
(10:55):
we have more supports, we havemore resources, and we are more
hopeful for the future, becausewe've seen that the life can be
different, the world can bedifferent. But if you're 15
years old, 13 years old, and thebulk of your life experience,
things have not gone well foryou up to this point, it's much
more difficult to sort of learnto believe in yourself, to
(11:17):
believe that that world can bedifferent for you, and then to
like, kind of learn to loveagain, you know, when you've
been hurt so many times, and Ithink that's what our care, our
care staff do in the residentialprograms, is just show our youth
that adults can be different,and doing that Through regular,
everyday interactions, just withour youth. It doesn't even have
(11:41):
to be treatment focused withthat capital T. It's just
showing up for the kids, youknow, like you said, and then
engaging with them as people androle modeling what how adults
can handle stress and how we canbuild relationships and and that
kind of slowly helps to kids tosort of grow to believe that
(12:02):
things can be different
Hillary (12:04):
for them. And just
having an adult walking with
them through all of thisturmoil, like reminding them
that they're not alone. Like,yeah, that might suck, but
somebody is there with me sayingit's going to be okay, probably
makes a huge difference. Oh, it
Jason Lheureux (12:19):
makes a huge
difference when people are kind
of coming in and out of yourlife constantly, it's, it's, it
eventually becomes static, youknow, it becomes white noise.
And then even well meaningworkers or well meaning supports
just kind aren't able to makethat connection because of all
those walls. And it becomes kindof this, like circle eating its
(12:40):
own tail kind of thing. So it'scertainly difficult, but it's
also really awesome to kind ofsee what kids are capable of
when you kind of surround themwith with the right kind of
supports.
Hillary (12:53):
You talked a little bit
about walls, kind of being in
the way. What are some of thebarriers that come up for adults
to be the one person for a kid.
Jason Lheureux (13:03):
We, as adults,
just don't know what the kids
are into these days. And I'm notjust talking about in
residential but just like if Iwas talking to any adult in any
context that wants to be therefor a child, is we literally
don't speak their language. Weliterally don't know what their
pop culture references are, whattheir priorities are, what their
(13:24):
interests are. As older adults,we struggle with just the idea
that for them, social media orcertain habits are they're not
unhealthy, they're okay. Wedon't understand them. They're
weird to us, just because it'snot the environment that we grew
up. And so I think being curiousand asking questions and taking
(13:46):
time just to get to know whatyour kids are into is a great
way to start building aconnection, rather than telling
youth what to do, rather thanassuming what they're into or
they like or that will make thatbond or trying to force onto
them the stuff that I like orthe things that I want to do,
you know, just kind of let youset the tone, and when you
(14:08):
really approach it from thatmindset, you'd be surprised how
often you can let a child be incharge of the relationship. That
doesn't mean that they run yourhouse or they run the program,
but you're giving them a senseof ownership and a voice in a
way that a lot of times theyjust don't get, because the
world's kind of not wired toslow down and say to the child,
(14:32):
like, okay, cool. Like, youknow, what do you want? And then
well meaning helpers ask thatquestion, and then the next
hurdle is getting the childrento believe that you really mean
it, and the way you do that isnot through more words, but it's
through allowing that youth toobserve you and for your actions
to show that you're fallingthrough.
Hillary (14:55):
I had an interaction
with a friend. Of mine and her
son, and he, you know, was soexcited to teach me about a game
and to have him walk me throughI had no idea what this thing
was. I think he maybe made itup, but the way his eyes lit up
when I asked him to show me howto play it, he was so excited.
(15:18):
And now that we have thatrelationship, where we have that
game that we can play, and toput him is like, you know, more
than I do in this situation. SoI want you to tell me also,
because I had no idea what itwas, somebody had to explain it
to me. So asking kids and likelistening to learn is so huge. I
Jason Lheureux (15:39):
really love that
concept of trying to find ways
to allow your children to besubject matter experts. The
world is hardwired to haveadults be in charge, and adults
to know more, to be able to domore, to be able to have more
access. And then kids are kindof in the back seat, like in the
booster seat, five pointharness, coming along for the
ride. So when you can find a wayto help that youth feel like
(16:04):
they're in charge or they havesome control. It's fantastic.
And you know, technology andmedia could be a real scary
place, but we kind of can sitback as parents and go, Oh, I'm
afraid of what my child's doingonline. I don't know how I feel
about that website or that app,I'm gonna limit access. I'm
gonna take that away that justthat reaffirms that you're in
(16:27):
charge and that the child is notin charge. But for me, and like
my kid, one of her favoritethings that we do is sometimes
just go cool, like, grab myphone, show me what kind of
stuff you're into on YouTube.
And it's often just, you know,silly things. And I, as a parent
could say, this is boring. Idon't want to do this. I'm going
to check out. But just bychecking in, you can kind of
see, just in the body languageand the tone of voice and the
(16:49):
energy level, just how thingschange for the child when they
can see that you're reallychecking in and you're being
curious, and some of the stuffthat the kids are into are
actually pretty funny, prettyinteresting, pretty meaningful.
And you know, I would challengemost adults, that your kids know
more and have more to teach youthan they think
Hillary (17:12):
they do, and you never
know until you ask. Nope, you
certainly don't. So we talkedabout it a little bit, but
practically, how do we do this?
How do we be the person for akid, whether it's our own child
or it's another kid in our life?
Jason Lheureux (17:30):
I think
consistency is key. You can't
kind of half check in and halfcheck out. That's definitely
something that we experiencewith the youth in our care, or
with parents that are trying, oradults that are just sort of, I
don't know how to get started.
Sometimes, consistency is thenumber one key. Just, just keep
showing up. You know, I findmost times in life, in
(17:51):
relationships, if you're givingit a fair shake and you're doing
your best, you'll have anotheropportunity, even if you make a
mistake. Then the second thing,which I kind of mentioned
earlier, is just being beinggenuine. You have to be honest.
You can't try to use theirjargon just to try to be cool.
You can't pretend that you havea favorite superhero if you've
(18:13):
never seen a Marvel movie likeyou know, youth can pick up in
authenticity very quickly. Sobeing authentic and being honest
are also very important. Andthen I think we have to role
model. You can't tell a youththat they spend too much time on
their phone if your phone is outat the dinner table, you can't
expect your teenager tounderstand the importance of not
(18:36):
using substances if, like,you're driving them to school
and you're and you're using yourvape, so you have to set that
good example in those good rolemodels. And sometimes that means
model emulating the behaviorthat you want to see for the
children, or sometimes it meanshaving a hard conversation about
helping them to understand why.
(18:57):
Like, you know, I understandthis is of value to your
priority you. Here's how beingan adult and a child is
different, and then letting themask questions, and then you
staying persistently curious aswell.
Hillary (19:09):
I love that. Yeah,
they're persistently curious.
It's a theme that just keepscoming up. It seems like in a
lot of our coffee breakconversations that you never
know until you ask and you haveto want to know the answer. It's
Jason Lheureux (19:20):
one of, I think,
the main complaints that
children will have for theirparents, for their teachers, for
their pastors, for theircoaches, is you don't really
care. You know, that belief thatyou don't really care I'm just
an accessory or a side note, andyou just want to herd me, you
know, into pastor and then herdme into pen. And it takes a lot
(19:41):
of effort and a lot of time tobuild those connections, and
then when you're working withyouth that have experienced
adversity or trauma, you're alsoneeding to kind of recapture all
those lost years of connection.
So me with my child, my abilityto build that trust and that
connection and that authenticityand that i. Um, that belief that
I really am showing up and Imean it, it starts on day one,
(20:02):
you know, and you can't rushthat process. I think a lot of
times with parents, withhelpers, with folks looking to
get involved with working withkids, or when you're looking to
foster or adopt, there's thatsense that you can just, I'll
just hug them enough and lovethem enough, and kind of speed
up that process. But you know,if you want to take an avocado
(20:23):
seed and grow one of those tiny,little avocado plants, you can't
just like, force it to grow onyour timeline. You have to
understand that it's a process.
Then you have to be patient. Youhave to be extraordinarily
patient and let that processhappen on its own. Kids grow
fast enough, you know, mydaughter's so, you know, I would
(20:44):
tell that to parents too, like,don't rush it. Don't rush your
kids in a grown up or to besomething you know that's that's
going to happen naturally in thefuture. And also just understand
that that your child is growingaccording to their blueprint,
you know, not your blueprint,not your time frame, and how
things sort of hit them in theirdaily life is different than how
(21:08):
it hits you in your life today,and it's also different from the
experience that you had as achild. You need to just take
your time and let each kid justjust be unapologetically
themselves, the good and thebad,
Unknown (21:19):
because they're people,
because they're people. Yes,
reminder again, your childrenare people.
Hillary (21:26):
So what is giving you
hope about the well being of
kids in our
Jason Lheureux (21:30):
community? I do
love having those individual
connections on a daily basis. Inmy work at Wedgwood, pretty much
every day, there's a moment witha child that challenges me or or
frustrates me or discourages me,but then almost every day,
there's a moment that excites meor challenges me in a good way
(21:51):
or fills or fills my cup. But Icould also say the same thing
about all the staff that I workwith, because staff are people
too, and every day is, is acombination of having, you know,
good things happen. Not so goodthings happen. Mundane things
happen. You have highs, you havelows. And depending on your
(22:12):
mindset, you can choose to focuson the lows, or you can choose
to focus on the highs, or youcan end every day with, you
know, like, just like areflection on the whole day as a
whole. Like, how can the goodparts of my day and those
success moments encourage me andmake me stronger and motivate me
to get back to the work tomorrowand to keep improving? And then,
(22:35):
how can those challengingmoments again help me grow? And
the thing is, about kids is,sometimes those challenging
moments are actually moreimportant because your kids are
telling you something which Idon't think I've mentioned yet,
but I really feel all behavioris communication. All behavior
is being driven by my desire toget my needs met. And so for our
(22:58):
kids, when they engage in achallenging behavior. They don't
have time to do things for noreason. They're trying to get
their needs met, and they havelearned this is this is the best
I got. So it's actually moremotivating for me when when a
youth is struggling, because Iknow I'm doing I'm doing the
work. I'm like, Ooh, there itis. I can get frustrated with
the behavior or how it affectsme or makes me uncomfortable, or
(23:21):
I can slow down and act withintention. Think about what this
behavior is trying to tell me,and then approach that youth
with curiosity and try to workthrough it. So all behavior is
communication.
Hillary (23:35):
Yeah, I love that. It's
a good reminder. This was such a
great coffee break conversation.
Thank you for your importantwork and all that you do here at
Wedgwood, and for taking thetime to talk with me today.
Thank you. Thanks for the coffeefor more information on wedwood
Christian Services, our mentalhealth supports and how we are
empowering kids and families.
(23:56):
Visit our website. Links will bein the episode description. Stay
hopeful, stay helpful, and let'shave another coffee break soon.