January 15, 2025 • 61 mins
Lydia Garner returns to share her insights on coping with grief and trauma, focusing on her experiences as a Millennial dealing with the loss of her son. Through her journey, she emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, gratitude, and open conversations about mental health across generations.
• Lydia shares the impact of 9/11 on her as a teenager
• Understanding how her upbringing shaped her resilience
• The cultural shift surrounding mental health in the Millennial generation
• Experiences of postpartum depression and the need for candid dialogue
• Acknowledging grief while finding hope and gratitude amidst loss
• The significance of connection and support in healing
Remember to reach out if you're struggling; you are not alone. Dial 988 in the States or contact a crisis hotline in your country.
Song : "Goodness of God" used by permission muscibed.com subscription.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All my days I've been held in your hands, From the
moment that I was.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey everybody and welcome back to the Wednesdays
with Watson podcast.
As I have said for a very longtime now almost five years I am
so glad you are here.
I fully understand that time issomething that we are not
getting back of.
It is January of 2025, and weare in a season of the podcast
(00:32):
where we are just talking abouttrauma and you.
We had our first episode in ourgenerational series with Mama
Gallen, the Silent Generation.
I will link that in the shownotes.
Series with Mama Gowan, theSilent Generation.
I will link that in the shownotes.
Today I'm so excited to do adual goal of the podcast and
that is to bring a former guestback.
Lydia Garner is with us todayand we are going to get an
(00:58):
update on her story.
If you have not heard her story, it is absolutely also linked
in the show notes.
But Lydia and her husbandCameron lost their nine-year-old
son just over a year ago and wewant to talk to her and see how
she's doing.
But, in the spirit of theseason of the podcast that we're
in, I also want to know how hergeneration handles trauma.
What do they remember aboutsignificant events of their
(01:21):
generation?
So enjoy this millennial updateepisode with Lydia Garner.
Let's drop in to that episodenow.
All right, guys.
(01:54):
So we are back with actuallylydia.
Hey, I need to tell yousomething I actually haven't
told you this, and so yourepisode last year was the most
listened to episode of thewednesdays with watson podcast
for 2024 wow, wow.
Yeah, so so your people in NewZealand showing, showing up for
us, for sure, it's so, it's sofunny when because you guys, so
right now, lydia, we are doingthis podcast interview it is 6am
(02:18):
in Florida, and how old is it?
How old?
Well, it's 6am in Florida,clearly.
What time is it?
What time is it in New?
Zealand?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So, it's midnight here the same day.
Well, technically the next day,I guess, Right so?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
it's actually almost Wednesday there, so you are, and
it's Tuesday morning here, soyou are truly spending your
Wednesday with Watson.
So, no, seriously.
So your story, your familystory about losing your son Zeke
, just resonated with so manypeople as you were so honest on
that episode, about that journey, interviewing different people
(03:06):
from different generations sothat we all can learn, first of
all, that your generation, whichis the millennial generation, I
believe, can learn about you,but then my generation and
generation before me can learnabout millennials.
Millennials in particular get alittle bit of a bad rap.
Now you are on the cusp.
What year were you born?
Yes, I was born in September 87.
(03:30):
So, yeah, you know, in somecircles we, we could call you a.
What did they call them?
Um, the millennial and the genx.
There's a, the, the zennial no,that's anyway.
There's.
There's a combination of thoseof the two generations, or I
like to call people your agelike a geriatric millennial, um,
just just a lot of fun.
And so, yeah, you're barelybarely into to the next
generation from Gen X, becauseGen X ends in 1985 and so yeah
(03:55):
and so well.
So, before we actually get anupdate on how you are doing with
the loss of that precious youngman, I, I do want to talk a
little bit because I think thatyou bring so much wisdom in so
many veins, if I'm being honestwith you in regards to life and
the things of the Lord inparticular.
So you were born in 1987.
(04:16):
What is the first significant?
Either global, national, likeoutside of your church, your
family?
What is the first significant,what we would consider traumatic
event?
Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I mean so outside of my family, you mean.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, probably 9-11.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, that's what I thought you were going to say.
I was.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I was like 15, but my mom was in the air at the time
and we got called in the middleof the night in New Zealand and
my cousin said hey, just lettingyou know this has happened.
Uh, I know that Lynette'sflying and she had my baby
brother with her and I think shewas one of the last flights to
even be allowed to land inAmerica, over in LA, and we
(05:13):
didn't know if they were okayand it was pretty scary because
we didn't know for several hours, so that was actually quite a
big impact.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Wow.
So were you in New England orNew England Again, it's 6am.
Were you in New Zealand Um whenwhen this happened, or were you
in a issue?
So she was flying to America.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yes, so we lived in New Zealand and she was flying
back.
I think my grandpa had had astroke and she was trying to get
back to him and then they gotstranded and the only reason
they were allowed to land isbecause the plane didn't have
enough fuel to go anywhere elsewow so they were at near the end
of their flight.
You know it's a big long flightfrom New Zealand and they got
(05:57):
stranded there for a couple daysand it was pretty traumatic for
her because she didn't knowwhat to do in LA.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean I can't even imagine.
I mean I remember that day.
Well, I was in my 20s and formy generation, the kind of the
thing that I remember thatdoesn't even compare on the
magnitude in terms of loss oflife.
But I was about 12 or 13 whenthe space shuttle blew up and I
lived in Jacksonville at thetime and we could see it in the
(06:27):
air, and so I remember how thataffected me as a child.
But I'm curious for you, as wereally do want to dive deep into
how different generations dealwith trauma.
My generation we just kind ofput our heads down and do the
thing.
Can you recall as a 15-year-oldhow you were feeling with
something so inconceivable?
I mean, even as an adult?
(06:48):
I remember the 9-11 attacks,obviously, and I remember just
staring at the TV for whatturned into weeks, like it just
was so hard to grasp.
But I'm curious how youexperienced it as a 15-year-old,
because I would have been in my20s.
How did you experience, I mean,besides, obviously, the fear of
your mom?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
right for sure, I think yeah, as you said, it was
just inconceivable.
It you know as you're watchingit, and then I think we were
watching when the second one hitand it was like how, how is
this happening?
Um, and even you mentioning thespace shuttle, like I know that
mom and dad were affected bythat because they were in
(07:29):
florida at the time and thatreminded me that probably about
a year earlier, we had watchedwas it the columbia take off in
florida?
so we were on furlough and we'dseen it take off and then we
were driving through arlingtoncemetery, we were on furlough
and we'd seen it take off andthen we were driving through
Arlington Cemetery when it wassupposed to be coming back and
so that we had this personalconnection We'd just seen it
(07:52):
take off a couple weeks earlierand then to hear that it wasn't
coming through and then thatthere were pieces and in this
somberness of going through thecemetery as well, which is
already very somber, it was justsurreal and like so actually
more than 9-11, I suppose thiswas a very personal connection,
because we'd seen it go up, wewere listening to it as it was
(08:18):
reentering and as we drovethrough DC there were all of
these military vehicleseverywhere and we didn't know
why.
It was quite scary driving downthe highway because there's
these military vehicles on theoverpasses, because they didn't
know what was going on.
It was like wow, yeah, it wasso sad and I think for mom and
(08:40):
dad to have that be the secondevent of having a space shuttle
have issues was quite dramatic.
That personal connection ofhaving watched it and having
pictures of it taking off behindus I've forgotten about the
second one.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So, yeah, you would have been old enough to remember
.
I can't remember the name ofthat one either, but that's the
one that kind of disintegratedwhen it came in to the Earth's
atmosphere.
Yeah, Wow.
And so tell me a little bit.
So your family of origin forthose people who have not heard
the original or your firstepisode, your family of origin
(09:18):
tell us a little bit about yourparents and kind of the mindset
in your home about hard things,maybe what we would now call
traumatic things, Like I justlistened to the conversation
with your mom on your ownpodcast and I will link that in
the show notes, but there weresome things that she was saying
she mentioned in that podcastthat I had no idea about.
(09:39):
And so you guys definitely, as afamily, went through some hard
things when you were here inFlorida.
But tell us a little bit aboutthat family of origin and what
was the culture like in yourhome when hard things happen and
I reference your parents losingtheir job at the church where I
went as a child.
I had no idea and I can'timagine how traumatic that must
(10:02):
have been for them with two kids.
Had no idea and I can't imaginehow traumatic that must have
been for them with two kids.
And so set the scene for us interms of what did it look like
in the Piper household when hardthings happened, even even the
thing that you just referencedabout the, the challenger.
You know how did your parentshelp you walk through that, you
guys walk through that.
Set that stage for us Like.
What does it look like as alittle Lydia Piper up, learning
(10:24):
how to navigate difficult thingsthat we would consider maybe
traumatic?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Okay, well, my dad became a Christian as a teenager
.
He'd had a pretty challenginglife.
He had 10 brothers and sisters,so he grew up with challenges
involved with.
You know, they had enough foodbut it was lower income and um
had its challenges and multiplemarriages and stuff like that.
(10:51):
So he'd grown up withdifficulty and then come to know
the Lord in a personal way.
And my mom had grown up with asteady family and so they both,
by the time that we came along,they both had a strong faith and
their faith was real and italways has been.
And I, as I get older everysingle day, I am just so
(11:12):
thankful for that because I seea lot of families who have like
sort of this Christianity lightalmost, where they say that
they're a Christian, but itdoesn't come through in their
actions necessarily, at leastnot consistently.
And my parents are not perfectand I and I would never, you
(11:32):
know, say that, but they showedus that, yes, hard things do
happen, but God is in them andhe he's not necessarily causing
these hard things, but he's ableto work good, and I listened to
your conversation with MamaGowan and you know when we, as
Christians, remember that Godcan work all things together for
(11:53):
good for them that love him.
I was raised with that and justrecently I rewatched Pauliana
and I've just finished the audiobook as well and her playing
the glad game despite difficultcircumstances.
And I've my nickname is Lydianaand I was and I grew up being
thankful, finding ways to bethankful even in hardships, and
(12:17):
so that's what our home lookedlike it's like.
Yes, hard things might happen.
Yes, it might not have beenyour fault.
Sometimes it is your fault, butthis is.
We just move forward and we tryto find gratitude in that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I've always appreciated.
Yeah, when Mama Gowan said theBible doesn't say all things are
, how does she word it?
She said in that Southernaccent he doesn't say all things
are good.
And you know, and we you and I,having suffered some things in
life, have probably heard thatverse Romans 828 more than maybe
we want to sometimes.
But I've always appreciatedyour parents because they
(12:55):
clearly love the Lord, theyclearly stand on the truth of
scripture.
But even watching you guys walkthrough the loss of Zeke, I've
appreciated how like.
It's very clear to me how youwere raised because I watched
the comments on your post fromyour mom and your dad too.
But there's no plug and play,there's no Christian cliche,
(13:19):
there's no Bible band-aids.
They use scripture and they usethe Lord.
But there's thisacknowledgement, particularly in
the loss of Zeke, by both yourparents and you, that this is
hard and we are grieving, but wedon't grieve without hope.
And I love that for you becauseI do think that you probably
(13:42):
stand out a little bit from theother people in your generation
in the sense that that's yourkind of your, your go-to and
your default, and I think thatyou still have those soft people
skills that we love in themillennial generation.
But with this beautiful honesty, I'm curious, though, about
(14:05):
friends that you grew up with,maybe even friends younger than
you that maybe you went toschool with, or something like
that.
What were your observations ofhow they were taught and how
they navigated hard things?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Well, I do have a lot of really deep heart-to-heart
conversations with people.
I do have a lot of really deepheart-to-heart conversations
with people and like how MamaGowan, in that previous podcast,
said that she didn't know howto articulate the heartaches
(14:38):
yeah, she didn't have a safeplace to do that until her
husband came along, right, Ifeel like that is actually
really, really common and I, asyou have noticed, I had a very
rare situation where I did growup, where I did have that safety
(14:59):
and I had a very closerelationship with my mom and dad
and I, especially as I got intomy teen years, I had that
option to sit in the spa with mymom and dad and I, especially
as I got into my teen years, Ihad that option to sit in the
spa with my mom at night.
She had back problems, so we hada spa and we could talk about
the hard things.
And I think a lot of my friendsand my peers I don't know how
much like kids, cause you don'thave those deep conversations
necessarily as kids, but as wegot older, um, I think a lot of
(15:24):
them just didn't have thatsafety in their relationships to
have those um working throughthings the same way that I did
necessarily yeah, and I agreewith that.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So I, when I taught at Calvary back in 2007, I
taught kids that were born in,you know, 89, 90.
So a little bit younger than you, but what I found that really
tracks with what I observed inthose students, in the sense
that so they are being raised bymy generation, generation X,
(16:02):
who were feral cats, like youknow.
We literally were told to drinkout of water hoses and don't
come in until the streetlightscome on.
Literally, that's kind of whowe are, and so I think that our
generation wanted so muchdifferent for your generation
that there is this complete lackof safety, because what we did
(16:27):
and I'm living proof of thisright now, working six days a
week what we did was we justworked, worked, worked, worked,
worked, worked, because wewanted better for our kids than
what was provided for us and wedidn't have the wisdom that your
parents had in the sense thatyou know what.
It's my job just to keep themsafe and to raise them in the
things of the Lord, and the restis going to work out okay.
(16:50):
So I think a lot of people yourage or maybe even younger, like
you said, don't have thatsafety or didn't have that
safety, I should say.
And so for those, do you haveany friends?
Where that was not true aboutthat, you could observe how they
handle hard things now no well,I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I was in the because I'm one of the older ones.
I guess, as you said, am I oneof the older ones, millennials
you're a geriatric millennial.
Yes, I never know.
I'm like I don't even care.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, now you're definitely nonsense yeah, you're
definitely on the, on the um,on the older side of the
millennials, for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I I guess.
I guess what I've seen is thatI cause I can relate to anybody
of any age pretty easily becauseI just care about them as an
individual and I was raisedpretty in the country.
When we were at my grandma's wewere pretty free range, so, um,
which obviously had its prosand its cons and I guess, uh, in
(17:48):
my generation there is a lotmore counseling that came in
really well, it's coming in.
You know like it's.
You know some of my friends arestarting to.
That is becoming more of athing, because counseling is
becoming more of a thing ingeneral.
I think slightly younger thenext generation is that below me
I think that that's a bit morecommon gen z is below you, yeah
(18:13):
right.
So I think I think that theythey know more about that side
of things.
Um, but as far as how I've seenmy friends deal with a lot of
times that I'm talking to people, they've honestly never said
some of the stuff that they sayto me ever, because they've
never had people asking theright questions and seeing them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
That's a good word.
They've never had people askingthe right questions, and so I
hope that listeners will hearyou when you say that.
Because we like to pick on themillennial generation, at least
in America, we do, and then wedo, and then we do it in good
fun.
But you know, this is thegeneration that got
participation trophies, you know, at for sports, and I remember,
(19:00):
like field day at school, atvictory as a matter of fact, and
there were literally threeribbons, you know blue, white
and yellow, and everybody elsejust kind of had to take their
ball and go home and figure itout.
Right, that was my generation,and then, at least in the States
, when our kids were in sports,everybody you know, hey, hey,
johnny, here's a trophy justbecause you put on that uniform.
But what I find interestingabout what you just said then is
(19:22):
if we are so keen to pick onthe generation below us as Gen
Xers, but we're not asking theright questions, the generation
below us as Gen Xers, but we'renot asking the right questions,
and I think that so in youropinion, let's say that the Lord
puts somebody of thisgeneration in our lives.
What I hear you saying is thatwe need to spend time getting to
(19:46):
know who these people are andthis is not rocket science, but
not specific to your generationeither.
But if we want to impress uponanybody but we're talking about
generational stuff here we haveto ask the right questions.
You ask great questions.
So let's say, someone comesupon somebody of this age we're
(20:08):
talking so 1985 until I thinkit's 2000 ish, right, and so 30,
30 down, or you know, 30 to 22,22 to 30 years old.
What do you guys respond to?
Just our presence are.
What kind of questions do youask them?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, I'll give you an example of something that I
do, and I have the benefit ofhaving children so I can go to
the park and have thaticebreaker.
It's not uncommon for me to goto a park and to come next to a
parent, a mother, say, or even adad.
I'm happy to talk to, toanybody, and I'll go up to them
(20:51):
and I'll say something about ourkids.
That'll be an icebreaker.
Maybe our kids are on theswings next to each other.
And then I'll say somethingvulnerable on my end, in a
light-hearted way, but alsoopening up, and I might say
something like oh hey, I'mstruggling with this.
Have you found the solution forthis problem?
(21:11):
And it opens the door to have alittle bit deeper conversation.
We're not talking about theweather.
We're talking about actuallyI'm admitting that I'm not
perfect and I have struggles andit allows them to be like no, I
don't know what I'm doing thereeither.
And it opens that conversationand I've had people like and
(21:35):
then we'll talk for half an hourabout deeper stuff, and I've
had people come to me.
I didn't get their details oranything, I didn't see them
again for months and then maybethey showed up at a similar
event and they'll say oh hi,lydia, do you remember me?
We met at the park and it wasjust exactly what I needed that
day and that, to me, is likesuch a really neat ministry to
(22:01):
be able to do is that I'm I'mnot a shy person and so I'm able
to just talk to people anywhereand just see them, because I've
been the mom at the park whowas exhausted and depressed and
having horribly dark thoughtsbecause I was in that case
hormonally just all messed up,and I don't want to leave
(22:26):
anybody in that situation nothaving been seen.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, and you know you're speaking my language,
because we talk about being seenand known and heard and loved
and valued on this podcast.
But what I hear you sayingsomething just popped in my head
and reminded me of people don'tcare how much you know until
they know how much you care.
And that's not just amillennial thing.
That is, people want to be seenand known and heard and loved
(22:52):
and valued, and so I think thatanytime we have the opportunity
to interact with anybody, butparticularly this age group, you
know, we want to make sure thatthey feel valued and that their
concerns are heard.
Right, because I was justplaying around talking about how
we pick on millennials, oh, youguys are the ones that got the
participation trophies.
(23:13):
But if we walk into ourinteractions with this age group
thinking you're a bunch ofsofties, you can't handle hard
things, then we are not servingthem at all.
Perspective, as somebody inGeneration X, as I watch people
like you navigate life and youknow, and the generation below
(23:38):
me, you guys are a lot healthierthan than our generation.
I find that your generation isbetter at setting boundaries and
many times older people be all.
That's just the millennials.
You know doing their thing, andyou know, millennials don't
work, they don't overworkthemselves as a rule, and they
are not afraid to walk away fromrelationships that are not
healthy, that are, and you know,I hope that they're doing this
(23:59):
with some guidance and somewisdom.
But my point is is that this isa generation of people who we
could really help cultivate thatsoftness that tends to be in
this generation and I mean thatin a good way, this softness,
this receptiveness that thisgeneration can bring from my
generation who, just you know,we just go until we stop, and
(24:23):
that is especially true abouthard things.
We just something hard happened, oh okay.
Well, let me work harder.
Something hard happened, okay,let me go shopping.
Something hard happened, let medo this.
Something hard happened, let medo that.
Where my experience with yourgeneration having a lot of
interaction with millennials,like I said, I taught is that
your generation is much moreopen to honoring the hurt,
(24:46):
honoring the feelings, honoringthe hard stuff and and giving it
the respect that it deserves,and so we add Jesus into that.
And what an opportunity forthis beautiful vulnerability,
like you talked about, when youtalk to somebody at the park,
between you and God and betweenyou and other people is like
life is hard, god is good, andthat is not just a cliche, but
(25:09):
it is an opportunity for us tospeak into your life, because
there's this receptiveness therethat I at least observe that I
don't find in other generationsamong the millennials.
It's interesting because I'm ina couple weeks I guess actually
in a week, a week from tomorrowI'm going to be teaching a
lesson at our church on.
We're starting this amazingBible study For those of you
(25:33):
listening in Clearwater, come onWednesday nights.
But it's the questions thatJesus asked, and so the question
that I'm teaching on is whenJesus meets the man at the pool
of Bethesda who had been therefor 38 years, and he says to the
man do you want to get well?
Which seems like the most crazyquestion ever.
Right, but I think that yourgeneration wants to get well and
(25:56):
you're carrying maybe not you,because it seems like your
parents kind of broke somegenerational curses, but a lot
of people in this, in yourgeneration, are carrying with it
stuff from us, because we'recarrying stuff from the
generation before us, and so Ifind that the millennial
generation is our best hope forbreaking generational curses,
(26:18):
especially when it comes to thethings of the Lord.
That being said, you justmentioned to me you know, and
I've heard you talk about thison your own podcast and some on
mine, but we didn't deeplyexplore some of those dark times
and it's been interestingbecause you and I have been
friends on Facebook for a hotminute.
(26:38):
It's been cool to watch yougrow up right in front of my
eyes.
Frankly, can you tell us alittle bit about because there
are people listening to thisthat are in your age group, that
had children, that maybe hadsome significant postpartum
issues or who maybe are in thisvery moment have an earbud in
their ear in a dark room,wondering why they even want to
(26:59):
stay alive can you share alittle bit with us about that
time in your life, how youexperienced it?
Yeah, just how you experiencedit.
Yeah, just how you experiencedit in general, and how the world
or your environment around youkind of helped to hurt you.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It massively changed, changed me.
It changed my perception,because before that I couldn't
really understand how anybodycould ever get to the point of
choosing to end their life.
I thought what a selfish thing.
How could anybody even go thatway Like, how could you possibly
think that's better?
And so I was.
(27:40):
I probably was around 24, 26, 27.
And we had had a bunch of moves.
My husband had at that pointhad two major career losses and
part of that was a year and ahalf unemployed because of a
recession, and he was overoverqualified and it was like
(28:05):
the moves, it was lack of sleep,having little ones.
I was kind of burning thecandle at both ends because the
job that he had at the time washe'd get home really late.
The only time we could havequality time together alone was
after his shift because we hadtoddlers and baby and so I would
stay up late and I would get upvery early to try to let him
(28:28):
sleep in.
So I was getting probably fouror five hours a night if that,
and you know that's not verysustainable, right, and and I
still seemed on the outsidebecause I was also doing an MLM
thing.
I was very good at it, I'm verygood at sales.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I love yeah, I bet you were.
I love that.
Yeah, I bet you were.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I love sales, anything that I'm passionate
about.
I'm very good at doing that.
I had like 43 women on my team.
I wasn't making much money atall, but I was having fun and I
was coaching a bunch of people.
So I was doing that.
I was using that kind of as adistraction from the
difficulties of motherhood as adistraction from the
(29:13):
difficulties of motherhood andand I started to have these
thoughts of, uh, I'm, I'm notgood enough.
I'm not a good enough mother, Idon't really want to be
watching them, because it wasmore fun to do the MLM stuff.
Uh, that was more fulfilling,because here I was getting this
encouragement and this rah, rah,rah from my company and from
these ladies, and that's a lotmore fun than the day to day
(29:34):
with the baby and a toddler.
Um, so I ended up just gettingtotally depleted.
So mine was depression.
It was very, very much relatedto lack of sleep and I did not
know that I was dealing withdepression probably for several
(29:55):
weeks or several months, I'm notsure, until it got really bad
and I was thinking okay, I canlet the kids go to the
grandmothers, they'll be happythere, nobody's going to miss me
, I'm just not a very goodmother and all the time I look
perfectly normal on the outside.
So that hasn't changed.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Among the generations .
Just a side note, but go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So nobody would have guessed.
I didn't even guess.
I had no idea.
I had no idea I was dealingwith depression and, yeah, I was
having these feelings but Iwasn't associating them to
depression until finally I don'tknow why I just finally got a
(30:39):
bit scared of what I was feelingand the ideation and stuff and
I finally opened up to myhusband, who is safe he's always
been very safe and so I freelyadmit I am very blessed and
privileged to have these safeenvironments and I told him that
what I was feeling and I thinkfinally saying it out loud was
(31:05):
what made me realize it wasdepression.
And at that point, because itwas identified as, hey, this is
actually a real threat, I meanit was, it was pretty bad, I was
in a pretty if you had a plan.
We hospitalized those patientshere you know yeah and and I'd
(31:26):
had plenty of thoughts and, andthat really scared me.
And so once I said it out loud,I realized, oh wow, something
needs to change.
And so for me, how that lookedI'm a pretty logical person, so
every brain test I do, I'm likesmack dab down the middle, I'm
like 51 and 49% it's kind ofbizarre, kind of bizarre.
(31:56):
So for me, what made sense tome in that was okay, well, I
need to see why I feel sooverwhelmed, because I did.
I was completely overwhelmed inevery area.
Basically and I just started tomake a list of everything that
made me feel overwhelmed Icompletely stopped the MLM.
They had changed, the companyhad changed as well, and so I
didn't feel comfortable evenselling a lot of products
anymore.
Um, and they were pushing myteam to act like Americans, or
(32:19):
the Canadian market in NewZealand is not the same market
as America.
So it just wasn't working and Ikicked my team leader, the
person above me, out of my groupand stuff like that.
That's hilarious.
Stop it.
Boundaries right, I am good atboundaries.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And I'm telling you your generation is.
It annoys those of us in othergenerations, but you're very
good at boundaries and that's agreat thing.
But I'll tell you, lydia, whatyou highlight something for me
here that I had hoped tohighlight in this conversation
is that we need needed, as ageneration above you, to do a
better job of saying you know,teaching you and this is not a
(33:00):
slight on anybody like we youdon't know until you know, right
?
And so my generation, we justput our heads down and keep
doing things, and so depression,anxiety, what, what is?
That is what we think as as GenXers, and there's a fair amount
of addiction and all the thingsto that end, and so so then we,
then we have your generationwhere I don't think, not knowing
(33:23):
that that was depression isunique to your generation, I
don't think, but I do think thatpodcasts like this and
conversations like this can helpmoms out there or not, moms who
are having these feelings ofdepression, which is very hard
to explain, right.
I mean, we can try to put ourwords to the darkness, that is,
to the emptiness that it feels,to the dread that it feels, to
(33:43):
the just complete, you know,nonsensical thoughts that this
world would be better withoutyou.
You know nonsensical thoughtsthat this world would be better
without you, and so the factthat you didn't recognize that
is kind of the point of thispodcast and people listening of
any generation, right, that isnot normal to feel that way, and
if you're, if you're feeling ina way where you want to take
your life first of all, pleasereach out.
(34:04):
You can text or call 988.
In America I'm not sure aboutNew Zealand, but 988, lydia, do
you guys have something likethat there for suicide hotline?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, we definitely do have options.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Okay, and so please reach out to somebody and I
didn't mean to interrupt you, Ijust felt like that was really
important and so you talked toKim and tell us a little bit
more about, kind of, how you goton the other side of it.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, as you were saying, like with the, the thing
that kind of blew my mind wasthat.
You know, I told you thatoriginally I thought, oh, this
is just a selfish thing Ifanybody could ever think of
doing this yeah.
But this taught me about mentalillness and about your brain is
just not right.
(34:53):
About mental illness and aboutyour brain is just not right.
And how you, how I, as a, as aChristian who I still had a
close walk with God, I thought Ihow I could justify it, and it
has given me so much gracetoward those that deal with
these issues and toward thosethat do absolutely horrific
things in the name of trying tosay love their children and
(35:13):
maybe doing awful things andbecause in their mind and this
is what I understand now intheir mind it makes sense yeah,
and it's horrifying, right, butit's real and this is something
that people have to realize isokay, as you just said, like
this isn't normal.
(35:35):
So you know that that has givenme so much more grace toward
others.
Because if I, this person whogrew up very privileged, very
loved, very safe, up veryprivileged, very loved, very
safe, If I, through thishormonal change, as a lot of
people have, if I could feellike this and yet, ah, just, it
(36:00):
blew my mind and it has foreverchanged me, because I know that
every single person that I seecan be in this situation on a
ledge and they can lookperfectly normal and maybe they
just need somebody to to seethem and to ask them that hard
question or even just say hey,I'm kind of struggling today,
(36:24):
how are you doing, you know, andjust actually be real.
But the the way that I got outof it.
So I recognized what my issuewas by writing down all the
things that made me feeloverwhelmed.
So I just started making smallchanges.
I stopped the MLM thing, whichprobably freed up like a
bazillion hours a week becauseit was ridiculous and I focused
(36:46):
more on becoming a more wisemother.
I focused more on getting sleepbecause clearly that was an
issue.
I did little changes in justeven the household stuff to make
me feel less overwhelmed.
I honestly just went down thelist and tweaked a little things
(37:07):
.
It was very small things thatneeded to change.
That made a massive differenceand I think for a lot of people
obviously even to get to thelogical point where you can even
write it down is very difficult.
But that's why I tell peoplethat are struggling, if at all
possible, whatever is botheringyou.
Write it down, get it out ofyour head.
(37:28):
It's got all those bad pathwaysthat it keeps building and
there's science to that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
There's science to writing those things down.
I always tell people, if youcan this is actually I'm not a
doctor yet, but almost um, thisis actually scientifically
accurate.
First of all, writing it downis therapeutic, like you said,
it rewires the brain, all thethings.
If you can write with yournon-dominant hand, when you do
that, it's even more effectiveBecause what you're doing is
(37:55):
you're telling your brain likewe're okay here, right, and
that's so.
It's so interesting to me thatyou have that wisdom to know
what to do.
Like you needed to startsomewhere, like let me just
write down it.
I'm thinking when you're sayingthat, wow, I need to do that,
and I don't know that I have apiece of paper big enough to
write down all the things thatare overwhelming me.
(38:15):
And it's just this period oflife where joy and and and and
hard things are interminglingand good things are happening,
but I'm exhausted, but it's so Ido I agree with you on that is
to write it down.
You, we know that, that thatwisdom is the principal thing
and that we are promised wisdomif we ask it from God.
And so, if you are feeling thatway, especially as a young mom,
(38:38):
lydia.
Now you have four boys, and soI'm sure there are still things
that you have to do to take careof your mental health,
especially given the loss ofZeke, which I want to talk about
a little bit just to kind ofget an update on how you are.
And so, for those of you whodon't know, lydia's original
episode will be linked in theshow notes.
But Lydia and her husband, cam,lost their almost nine year old
(39:01):
son to to a rare form of cancer, and so and Lydia tells that
story in the description in theepisode I'll put in the show
notes.
That being said, I want to knowhow you are doing, because it
was hard over the holidays towatch, and I'm sure we all love
that feature of Facebook whereit gives us our memories, but
(39:25):
you were sharing this time lastyear and this was more in
December and kind of the rawemotions of all of that.
So, first of all, how long hasZeke been gone about?
What is it about?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
18 months, we're coming up two years two years.
So end of February is two years.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, and so I loved how you were walking it out,
especially over the holidays.
Very honestly, very honestly,it was, it was.
It was bittersweet to watch itplay out.
Tell us how you're doing.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I am honestly doing very well, probably 99% of the
time, and in the times that I dogrieve, it's the healthy grief.
And Cameron and I were talkingabout this just last night or
the night before, as I sobbedbecause you know you have
different triggers, you know youhave different triggers and um,
(40:32):
I went for the other day, waswatching, oh, I saw some video
in memories and it was of theboys playing on a hammock and um
just being silly and justmissing his mischievous smile
and and it reminded me I wascrying about that.
And then I was telling Cameronthat that day we'd been at the
park and so it must have beenyesterday and we'd been at the
(40:54):
park and Clay was who's eightnow, and he looks just like Zeke
, which is really tricky.
He had been chasing Josiah andjust as I watch that, just
(41:15):
knowing there's that gap thatcomes up quite often and knowing
that there was somebody else inbetween and isn't chasing him,
that's more of his speed andmore of his size, so that I was
crying to Cameron about it.
I didn't cry at the park.
I think I did tear up, but Icry when I need to cry and which
I think I'm so proud of youtogether, by the way because my
(41:37):
generation, we would just keepkeep going and not honoring that
, one of the most poignantthings I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You say um, both on.
I don't know if you said thison your own podcast, by the way.
I will put that in the shownotes too, but it's chats with
Lydia.
It's hard to get used to.
You said counting to four.
Now this was talking aboutbittersweet.
When you lost Zeke, you had anewborn and so you would have
(42:13):
had five, and you also, Ibelieve, have another baby in
heaven.
Tough stuff.
I think that is so healthy and,like you said, you were very
fortunate to grow up in safeenvironments and you're
fortunate to live in a safeenvironment.
I also think that there'ssomething to be said for where
you live in the world, becausein America, you know it's grind,
(42:35):
grind, grind, grind, grind, andI think there is a different
culture, and you've been in NewZealand since you were a
teenager and I think there's adifferent culture too.
But you cry when you need toand I think that that is so
healthy and so powerful and Ithink you know, as I get ready
to teach this lesson.
On this question that Jesusasked do you want to get?
(43:02):
Well, I think that your answerto that question has been in the
affirmative yeah, I want to getwell.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
And I often talk about being a good steward of
our pain, but I wonder what itlooks like to you to be a good
steward of about the differentgenerations.
I feel like because I to helpfacilitate other people's
conversations that nobody hasasked, and so, like when I lost
(43:58):
the baby in 2021, I asked on myFacebook page I said, for those
that have had miscarriages, whatis something you wish you would
have known before it happened?
And that opened up theconversation for women of all
ages and many women that were inthe silent generation even to
(44:19):
share their miscarriage for thefirst time.
And that, to me, helps with myhealing, because I get to give
them a platform of healingthrough sharing my grief, and
that's why I shared openly as welost Zeke and we went through
that trial and as the griefcontinues, because I I want them
(44:42):
to see that there's still hopeeven amidst loss.
Hope even amidst loss.
Um, I have people on my Facebookpage that um and my friends and
those in the groups that I'm inlike cause I'm in cancer groups
and stuff and and their livesare controlled by this grief and
(45:03):
they're no better, If not, ifnot worse, than they were the
day that it happened a decadeago and I grieve for them.
I grieve for the loss of all ofthose years, and so I'm very
thankful that I'm able to useour pain and to share with
(45:23):
others, that there's hope andthat our life is brief and we
don't know how it's going to end.
And so I had a friend todaysaying oh, I'm having my 40th
this year and I'm trying not tobe sad about it and I'm like
you've had 40 years of makingmemories.
What a blessing right.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Some people don't get to be 40.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Yeah, it's so exciting and God allowed us to
have every day as he's life.
Yeah, and love him well.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
You got to love him his whole life.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
We got every day that was intended, yeah, and so I
don't begrudge the days I didn'tget.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
And I can't.
And in times when I see Claychasing Josiah, I don't think,
or I might think for a splitsecond.
Oh, zeke should have been thererunning.
I do think that for a splitsecond and then I correct it in
my mind and I think no, we hadZeke the right amount of time
and he is delighted, dude he'srunning on the streets of gold
(46:25):
up there building Legos and allof the things.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
You know, one of the things, as we near the end of
our conversation, that I thinkthat is so, so important.
And I'm not going to saylacking in your generation, but
I'm going to say lacking in yourgeneration is this idea of
gratitude and this idea of I'mnot entitled to this beautiful
(46:51):
life and therefore I'm angry atGod because he took my son, or
I'm angry at God because I wasso depressed I wanted to take my
own life.
There is something so powerfulI don't care how old you are to
being grateful and and to say it.
(47:11):
And, as John Piper says, say ituntil your heart believes it.
Thank you, thank you, lord.
And I know in my own life, as Inavigate all the things I was
talking to somebody the otherday and you know, when I, when I
share my testimony which I willdo in a couple weeks it's a bit
overwhelming, it's a lot.
When I, when I share mytestimony which I will do in a
couple weeks, it's a bitoverwhelming, it's a lot right,
like I could literally choose toshare one part and it would be
(47:34):
just as powerful as if I, if I,shared the whole thing.
But I was talking to somebodyat work and because things just
pop out right.
And somebody asked me thequestion hey, amy, do you have
any kids?
And I did, lydia.
I'm sitting at a table withdoctors and nurses and other
social workers and othertherapists and, and without even
thinking about it, I said well,you know, I had a son, but he
(47:56):
died of a drug overdose and youcould have heard a pin drop in
that room.
And so later, as I was talking,one of my co workers said hey,
I want you to know.
I heard you when you said thatI don't even know what to say.
And to me I was just dropping,dropping the truth on him.
And she said I just don't evenknow how you navigate something
like that.
And I said Well, first of all,it's not yours to navigate it.
(48:18):
I wasn't.
That sounds rude.
I didn't mean it rude.
God didn't give you grace towalk through my pain, but I will
tell you this too, in thespirit of do you want to get
well?
And being a good steward of the, the healing is, I wouldn't
change a thing, not one, becauseI believe that those things has
(48:41):
brought me to this place in mylife and this has been true for
a long time where I have thisbeautiful relationship with my
savior, my god, because we'veduked out he and I have duked it
out already a long time agoabout the hard things and he is
my ever present help in trouble,my very best friend, and so I
wouldn't take a single bit of itback.
(49:01):
Do I have moments like you have, where you know the park, the
park moments we can?
We can air quote with that?
I've been having a lot of thoserecently about Kevin, my stepson
who died, and just about thatperiod of my life when I was
married.
I don't know why I've beenhaving like some weird
flashbacks to that time and Ithink on those times with
gratitude and I find myselfsaying about my husband, my
(49:25):
ex-husband John, I loved you.
About my husband, my ex-husbandJohn, I loved you, kevin, I
miss you.
And I wouldn't take it back foranything because, to your point
, it has brought me to thisplace where I have this
beautiful opportunity to relishin my healing.
Because I had a point where Ifelt like God said to me do you
(49:46):
want to get well from thesethings?
And I had a point where I hadto answer that question and I
think we all have a point wherewe have to answer that question.
Do we want to get well?
So I guess my final question toyou is for those listening out
there who are grieving withouthope, those listening out there
in dark rooms who are figuringout where they can take their
(50:08):
kids before they hurt themselves.
For those out there listeningwho are your age group and need
somebody to speak to them inlanguage that only your age
group understands.
I would love for you to takethe mic and talk to those people
for a minute about your hopeand what you take anything back
(50:31):
that the Lord has put in yourpath.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Friends, you're not alone.
We all know that we all cravepurpose and we're not enough
just within ourselves and neverwill be.
And we can try and, oh, we try.
But we're designed to have aclose relationship with our
(50:58):
creator and when we realize thatand actually just allow God to
love us how he desires to loveus, it doesn't mean you get a
perfect life.
It means that you have purpose,you have peace, you have joy.
It means that your life isn'tjust about your own pleasure and
(51:23):
it's just so much deeper and itfills that void.
And maybe there are smallchanges that need to be made and
maybe what you're dealing withis something that is hormonal,
and maybe it's something thatyou just need some small tweaks,
or maybe it's some more seriousstuff and you need to be
talking about it and getting itout.
(51:44):
But there are people that loveyou and your life is valuable.
Every day is a gift.
I don't begrudge God for takingZeke.
He was never mine to begin with.
He was lent to me and I alwaysbelieved that from day one, we
have a choice to become a victim.
(52:04):
Or we have a choice to become avictim, or we have a choice to
grow.
And my choice continues to bedaily.
I will grow, I will havegratitude.
I'm not going to focus on beinga victim and those that hurt me
, because I can't controlanybody else but myself and I
(52:25):
can't control things outside ofmy control, like how long those
that I love live.
I've learned through many, manyyears of reading biographies
and reading stories of people'shard and difficult moments that
God is enough, and those stories, they paved the way.
(52:48):
They paved the way for mystrong faith and they paved the
way for me, when I had to comeup against this loss, to be able
to trust God completely withevery fiber of my being, whether
I got to keep Zeke for longer,or whether I didn't or whether I
didn't.
And God is.
He's not just this, thisunreachable, untouchable,
(53:20):
imaginative thing.
Look around you.
You see people who love himwith all of their heart and he
changes their lives and he canchange yours and give you that
hope.
And so I just encourage you and, as you talk to people of all
different generations, just lovethem and if you don't know how
to start a conversation, askadvice, because that breaks
through barriers.
Even if you're older and youtalk to younger people, just ask
(53:44):
them a bit of advice and say,hey, I'm struggling with this,
have you found a solution?
And that opened so many doors.
And I've had older people say,hey, what would you suggest for
this?
And it's like so humbling, butit breaks that age gap and helps
you to love well, so just keeploving and keep seeing and just
(54:06):
know that you're very, veryloved and very important and God
has a purpose for your life.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Love it.
Love it as you were speaking.
You know it's the heart of thispodcast is we love people but,
moreover, we want them to knowthe perfect love of Jesus.
I could only think of a passageof scripture as you were
talking, because we've said somuch here today, gratitude being
(54:35):
so paramount, and I don't carehow old you are, gratitude is a
key to peace and happiness.
But I was thinking as you weretalking, because you said I
trust the Lord.
I had somebody come to me theother day.
I was at a meeting for churchand she had been in some
counseling and really had gottenthrough some really hard stuff.
And she said you know, I thinkI'm good about the things that
(54:57):
happened when I was younger.
But she said but now she hadlost her home in the hurricane.
She said but now I just have ahard time trusting God.
And I kind of looked at her andmy eyes teared up a little bit,
because I struggle with thatsometimes too.
And it's podcasts like this andstories like yours and
conversations like this thathelped me remember one of the
most basic scriptures in thehistory of the Bible, maybe one
(55:21):
of the ones that I firstmemorized, and I love it because
it's got such a logical themeto it, but Proverbs 3, 5, and 6,
trust in the Lord with all ofyour heart and lean not into
your own understanding, but inall of your ways, acknowledge
him, and he will direct yourpath.
(55:44):
And so, my friends, whateveryou're navigating today, I don't
care how old you are.
I hope that you have gainedsomething from this episode, but
, particularly if you are of themillennial generation, we thank
you for your openness.
We thank you for your breakingbarriers as it pertains to how
we deal with some of this stuff,but, moreover, we pray for you
and we are here for you as thoseof us who are older than you.
(56:05):
So, guys, thank you so much forlistening.
Lydia, thank you for being here.
Her podcast can be found in myshow notes.
She is a mom of four, and so itgets recorded and published
when it gets recorded andpublished.
But Chats with Lydia I thinkthey're Faith Chats with Lydia,
yes.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, Faith Chats with Lydia.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
I'll share in the show notes, but fantastic
conversations.
It's been cool to watch Lydiagrow this ministry that she has,
and so thank you for being here.
Guys, we'll be back in twoweeks.
Who knows what generation we'regoing to come up with now or
what podcast episodes coming intwo weeks.
Speaking of burning the candleat all the ends, we are doing
all the things as we are walkingthrough this doctoral journey.
(56:46):
So thanks again, lydia, forbeing here.
To the rest of you, you knowwhat I'm going to say.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are
loved and you been so, so good.
With every breath that I enable, oh, I will sing of the
(57:25):
goodness of God.
I love your voice.
You were led me through thefire and in darkness night you
were close like no other.
I've known you as a father,I've known you as a father, I've
(57:55):
known you as a friend, and Ihave lived in the goodness of
God, and all my life you havebeen faithful and all my life
you have been so, so good.
(58:16):
Every breath that I am able, Iwill sing of the goodness of God
.
Yeah, your goodness is runningafter me.
(58:37):
It's running after me.
Your goodness is running afterme.
It's running after me.
When my life laid down, Isurrender.
Now it's running after me.
My life laid down, I surrender.
Now I give you everything.
Your goodness is running after.
(58:59):
It's running after me.
Your goodness is running after.
It's running out today.
Your goodness running out.
It's running out today.
(59:21):
When my life fades out,surrender.
Now.
I'll give you everything.
Your goodness keeps runningafter me.
And all my life you have beenfaith.
(59:45):
You have been faithful, and allmy life you have been so, so
good With every breath that I amable.
Oh, I'm going to sing of thegoodness of God, I'm going to
(01:00:10):
sing, I'm going sing, I'm gonnasing.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh.
And all my life you have beenso, so good With every breath
(01:00:33):
that I had.
Now, oh, I'm gonna sing of thegoodness of God, oh, I'm gonna
sing of the goodness of God.
Let me pray for all my days.
All my days I've been held in your hands, From the
moment that I was.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey everybody and welcome back to the Wednesdays
with Watson podcast.
As I have said for a very longtime now almost five years I am
so glad you are here.
I fully understand that time issomething that we are not
getting back of.
It is January of 2025, and weare in a season of the podcast
(00:32):
where we are just talking abouttrauma and you.
We had our first episode in ourgenerational series with Mama
Gallen, the Silent Generation.
I will link that in the shownotes.
Series with Mama Gowan, theSilent Generation.
I will link that in the shownotes.
Today I'm so excited to do adual goal of the podcast and
that is to bring a former guestback.
Lydia Garner is with us todayand we are going to get an
(00:58):
update on her story.
If you have not heard her story, it is absolutely also linked
in the show notes.
But Lydia and her husbandCameron lost their nine-year-old
son just over a year ago and wewant to talk to her and see how
she's doing.
But, in the spirit of theseason of the podcast that we're
in, I also want to know how hergeneration handles trauma.
What do they remember aboutsignificant events of their
(01:21):
generation?
So enjoy this millennial updateepisode with Lydia Garner.
Let's drop in to that episodenow.
All right, guys.
(01:54):
So we are back with actuallylydia.
Hey, I need to tell yousomething I actually haven't
told you this, and so yourepisode last year was the most
listened to episode of thewednesdays with watson podcast
for 2024 wow, wow.
Yeah, so so your people in NewZealand showing, showing up for
us, for sure, it's so, it's sofunny when because you guys, so
right now, lydia, we are doingthis podcast interview it is 6am
(02:18):
in Florida, and how old is it?
How old?
Well, it's 6am in Florida,clearly.
What time is it?
What time is it in New?
Zealand?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So, it's midnight here the same day.
Well, technically the next day,I guess, Right so?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
it's actually almost Wednesday there, so you are, and
it's Tuesday morning here, soyou are truly spending your
Wednesday with Watson.
So, no, seriously.
So your story, your familystory about losing your son Zeke
, just resonated with so manypeople as you were so honest on
that episode, about that journey, interviewing different people
(03:06):
from different generations sothat we all can learn, first of
all, that your generation, whichis the millennial generation, I
believe, can learn about you,but then my generation and
generation before me can learnabout millennials.
Millennials in particular get alittle bit of a bad rap.
Now you are on the cusp.
What year were you born?
Yes, I was born in September 87.
(03:30):
So, yeah, you know, in somecircles we, we could call you a.
What did they call them?
Um, the millennial and the genx.
There's a, the, the zennial no,that's anyway.
There's.
There's a combination of thoseof the two generations, or I
like to call people your agelike a geriatric millennial, um,
just just a lot of fun.
And so, yeah, you're barelybarely into to the next
generation from Gen X, becauseGen X ends in 1985 and so yeah
(03:55):
and so well.
So, before we actually get anupdate on how you are doing with
the loss of that precious youngman, I, I do want to talk a
little bit because I think thatyou bring so much wisdom in so
many veins, if I'm being honestwith you in regards to life and
the things of the Lord inparticular.
So you were born in 1987.
(04:16):
What is the first significant?
Either global, national, likeoutside of your church, your
family?
What is the first significant,what we would consider traumatic
event?
Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I mean so outside of my family, you mean.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, probably 9-11.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, that's what I thought you were going to say.
I was.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I was like 15, but my mom was in the air at the time
and we got called in the middleof the night in New Zealand and
my cousin said hey, just lettingyou know this has happened.
Uh, I know that Lynette'sflying and she had my baby
brother with her and I think shewas one of the last flights to
even be allowed to land inAmerica, over in LA, and we
(05:13):
didn't know if they were okayand it was pretty scary because
we didn't know for several hours, so that was actually quite a
big impact.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Wow.
So were you in New England orNew England Again, it's 6am.
Were you in New Zealand Um whenwhen this happened, or were you
in a issue?
So she was flying to America.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yes, so we lived in New Zealand and she was flying
back.
I think my grandpa had had astroke and she was trying to get
back to him and then they gotstranded and the only reason
they were allowed to land isbecause the plane didn't have
enough fuel to go anywhere elsewow so they were at near the end
of their flight.
You know it's a big long flightfrom New Zealand and they got
(05:57):
stranded there for a couple daysand it was pretty traumatic for
her because she didn't knowwhat to do in LA.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean I can't even imagine.
I mean I remember that day.
Well, I was in my 20s and formy generation, the kind of the
thing that I remember thatdoesn't even compare on the
magnitude in terms of loss oflife.
But I was about 12 or 13 whenthe space shuttle blew up and I
lived in Jacksonville at thetime and we could see it in the
(06:27):
air, and so I remember how thataffected me as a child.
But I'm curious for you, as wereally do want to dive deep into
how different generations dealwith trauma.
My generation we just kind ofput our heads down and do the
thing.
Can you recall as a 15-year-oldhow you were feeling with
something so inconceivable?
I mean, even as an adult?
(06:48):
I remember the 9-11 attacks,obviously, and I remember just
staring at the TV for whatturned into weeks, like it just
was so hard to grasp.
But I'm curious how youexperienced it as a 15-year-old,
because I would have been in my20s.
How did you experience, I mean,besides, obviously, the fear of
your mom?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
right for sure, I think yeah, as you said, it was
just inconceivable.
It you know as you're watchingit, and then I think we were
watching when the second one hitand it was like how, how is
this happening?
Um, and even you mentioning thespace shuttle, like I know that
mom and dad were affected bythat because they were in
(07:29):
florida at the time and thatreminded me that probably about
a year earlier, we had watchedwas it the columbia take off in
florida?
so we were on furlough and we'dseen it take off and then we
were driving through arlingtoncemetery, we were on furlough
and we'd seen it take off andthen we were driving through
Arlington Cemetery when it wassupposed to be coming back and
so that we had this personalconnection We'd just seen it
(07:52):
take off a couple weeks earlierand then to hear that it wasn't
coming through and then thatthere were pieces and in this
somberness of going through thecemetery as well, which is
already very somber, it was justsurreal and like so actually
more than 9-11, I suppose thiswas a very personal connection,
because we'd seen it go up, wewere listening to it as it was
(08:18):
reentering and as we drovethrough DC there were all of
these military vehicleseverywhere and we didn't know
why.
It was quite scary driving downthe highway because there's
these military vehicles on theoverpasses, because they didn't
know what was going on.
It was like wow, yeah, it wasso sad and I think for mom and
(08:40):
dad to have that be the secondevent of having a space shuttle
have issues was quite dramatic.
That personal connection ofhaving watched it and having
pictures of it taking off behindus I've forgotten about the
second one.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So, yeah, you would have been old enough to remember
.
I can't remember the name ofthat one either, but that's the
one that kind of disintegratedwhen it came in to the Earth's
atmosphere.
Yeah, Wow.
And so tell me a little bit.
So your family of origin forthose people who have not heard
the original or your firstepisode, your family of origin
(09:18):
tell us a little bit about yourparents and kind of the mindset
in your home about hard things,maybe what we would now call
traumatic things, Like I justlistened to the conversation
with your mom on your ownpodcast and I will link that in
the show notes, but there weresome things that she was saying
she mentioned in that podcastthat I had no idea about.
(09:39):
And so you guys definitely, as afamily, went through some hard
things when you were here inFlorida.
But tell us a little bit aboutthat family of origin and what
was the culture like in yourhome when hard things happen and
I reference your parents losingtheir job at the church where I
went as a child.
I had no idea and I can'timagine how traumatic that must
(10:02):
have been for them with two kids.
Had no idea and I can't imaginehow traumatic that must have
been for them with two kids.
And so set the scene for us interms of what did it look like
in the Piper household when hardthings happened, even even the
thing that you just referencedabout the, the challenger.
You know how did your parentshelp you walk through that, you
guys walk through that.
Set that stage for us Like.
What does it look like as alittle Lydia Piper up, learning
(10:24):
how to navigate difficult thingsthat we would consider maybe
traumatic?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Okay, well, my dad became a Christian as a teenager
.
He'd had a pretty challenginglife.
He had 10 brothers and sisters,so he grew up with challenges
involved with.
You know, they had enough foodbut it was lower income and um
had its challenges and multiplemarriages and stuff like that.
(10:51):
So he'd grown up withdifficulty and then come to know
the Lord in a personal way.
And my mom had grown up with asteady family and so they both,
by the time that we came along,they both had a strong faith and
their faith was real and italways has been.
And I, as I get older everysingle day, I am just so
(11:12):
thankful for that because I seea lot of families who have like
sort of this Christianity lightalmost, where they say that
they're a Christian, but itdoesn't come through in their
actions necessarily, at leastnot consistently.
And my parents are not perfectand I and I would never, you
(11:32):
know, say that, but they showedus that, yes, hard things do
happen, but God is in them andhe he's not necessarily causing
these hard things, but he's ableto work good, and I listened to
your conversation with MamaGowan and you know when we, as
Christians, remember that Godcan work all things together for
(11:53):
good for them that love him.
I was raised with that and justrecently I rewatched Pauliana
and I've just finished the audiobook as well and her playing
the glad game despite difficultcircumstances.
And I've my nickname is Lydianaand I was and I grew up being
thankful, finding ways to bethankful even in hardships, and
(12:17):
so that's what our home lookedlike it's like.
Yes, hard things might happen.
Yes, it might not have beenyour fault.
Sometimes it is your fault, butthis is.
We just move forward and we tryto find gratitude in that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I've always appreciated.
Yeah, when Mama Gowan said theBible doesn't say all things are
, how does she word it?
She said in that Southernaccent he doesn't say all things
are good.
And you know, and we you and I,having suffered some things in
life, have probably heard thatverse Romans 828 more than maybe
we want to sometimes.
But I've always appreciatedyour parents because they
(12:55):
clearly love the Lord, theyclearly stand on the truth of
scripture.
But even watching you guys walkthrough the loss of Zeke, I've
appreciated how like.
It's very clear to me how youwere raised because I watched
the comments on your post fromyour mom and your dad too.
But there's no plug and play,there's no Christian cliche,
(13:19):
there's no Bible band-aids.
They use scripture and they usethe Lord.
But there's thisacknowledgement, particularly in
the loss of Zeke, by both yourparents and you, that this is
hard and we are grieving, but wedon't grieve without hope.
And I love that for you becauseI do think that you probably
(13:42):
stand out a little bit from theother people in your generation
in the sense that that's yourkind of your, your go-to and
your default, and I think thatyou still have those soft people
skills that we love in themillennial generation.
But with this beautiful honesty, I'm curious, though, about
(14:05):
friends that you grew up with,maybe even friends younger than
you that maybe you went toschool with, or something like
that.
What were your observations ofhow they were taught and how
they navigated hard things?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Well, I do have a lot of really deep heart-to-heart
conversations with people.
I do have a lot of really deepheart-to-heart conversations
with people and like how MamaGowan, in that previous podcast,
said that she didn't know howto articulate the heartaches
(14:38):
yeah, she didn't have a safeplace to do that until her
husband came along, right, Ifeel like that is actually
really, really common and I, asyou have noticed, I had a very
rare situation where I did growup, where I did have that safety
(14:59):
and I had a very closerelationship with my mom and dad
and I, especially as I got intomy teen years, I had that
option to sit in the spa with mymom and dad and I, especially
as I got into my teen years, Ihad that option to sit in the
spa with my mom at night.
She had back problems, so we hada spa and we could talk about
the hard things.
And I think a lot of my friendsand my peers I don't know how
much like kids, cause you don'thave those deep conversations
necessarily as kids, but as wegot older, um, I think a lot of
(15:24):
them just didn't have thatsafety in their relationships to
have those um working throughthings the same way that I did
necessarily yeah, and I agreewith that.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So I, when I taught at Calvary back in 2007, I
taught kids that were born in,you know, 89, 90.
So a little bit younger than you, but what I found that really
tracks with what I observed inthose students, in the sense
that so they are being raised bymy generation, generation X,
(16:02):
who were feral cats, like youknow.
We literally were told to drinkout of water hoses and don't
come in until the streetlightscome on.
Literally, that's kind of whowe are, and so I think that our
generation wanted so muchdifferent for your generation
that there is this complete lackof safety, because what we did
(16:27):
and I'm living proof of thisright now, working six days a
week what we did was we justworked, worked, worked, worked,
worked, worked, because wewanted better for our kids than
what was provided for us and wedidn't have the wisdom that your
parents had in the sense thatyou know what.
It's my job just to keep themsafe and to raise them in the
things of the Lord, and the restis going to work out okay.
(16:50):
So I think a lot of people yourage or maybe even younger, like
you said, don't have thatsafety or didn't have that
safety, I should say.
And so for those, do you haveany friends?
Where that was not true aboutthat, you could observe how they
handle hard things now no well,I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I was in the because I'm one of the older ones.
I guess, as you said, am I oneof the older ones, millennials
you're a geriatric millennial.
Yes, I never know.
I'm like I don't even care.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, now you're definitely nonsense yeah, you're
definitely on the, on the um,on the older side of the
millennials, for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I I guess.
I guess what I've seen is thatI cause I can relate to anybody
of any age pretty easily becauseI just care about them as an
individual and I was raisedpretty in the country.
When we were at my grandma's wewere pretty free range, so, um,
which obviously had its prosand its cons and I guess, uh, in
(17:48):
my generation there is a lotmore counseling that came in
really well, it's coming in.
You know like it's.
You know some of my friends arestarting to.
That is becoming more of athing, because counseling is
becoming more of a thing ingeneral.
I think slightly younger thenext generation is that below me
I think that that's a bit morecommon gen z is below you, yeah
(18:13):
right.
So I think I think that theythey know more about that side
of things.
Um, but as far as how I've seenmy friends deal with a lot of
times that I'm talking to people, they've honestly never said
some of the stuff that they sayto me ever, because they've
never had people asking theright questions and seeing them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
That's a good word.
They've never had people askingthe right questions, and so I
hope that listeners will hearyou when you say that.
Because we like to pick on themillennial generation, at least
in America, we do, and then wedo, and then we do it in good
fun.
But you know, this is thegeneration that got
participation trophies, you know, at for sports, and I remember,
(19:00):
like field day at school, atvictory as a matter of fact, and
there were literally threeribbons, you know blue, white
and yellow, and everybody elsejust kind of had to take their
ball and go home and figure itout.
Right, that was my generation,and then, at least in the States
, when our kids were in sports,everybody you know, hey, hey,
johnny, here's a trophy justbecause you put on that uniform.
But what I find interestingabout what you just said then is
(19:22):
if we are so keen to pick onthe generation below us as Gen
Xers, but we're not asking theright questions, the generation
below us as Gen Xers, but we'renot asking the right questions,
and I think that so in youropinion, let's say that the Lord
puts somebody of thisgeneration in our lives.
What I hear you saying is thatwe need to spend time getting to
(19:46):
know who these people are andthis is not rocket science, but
not specific to your generationeither.
But if we want to impress uponanybody but we're talking about
generational stuff here we haveto ask the right questions.
You ask great questions.
So let's say, someone comesupon somebody of this age we're
(20:08):
talking so 1985 until I thinkit's 2000 ish, right, and so 30,
30 down, or you know, 30 to 22,22 to 30 years old.
What do you guys respond to?
Just our presence are.
What kind of questions do youask them?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, I'll give you an example of something that I
do, and I have the benefit ofhaving children so I can go to
the park and have thaticebreaker.
It's not uncommon for me to goto a park and to come next to a
parent, a mother, say, or even adad.
I'm happy to talk to, toanybody, and I'll go up to them
(20:51):
and I'll say something about ourkids.
That'll be an icebreaker.
Maybe our kids are on theswings next to each other.
And then I'll say somethingvulnerable on my end, in a
light-hearted way, but alsoopening up, and I might say
something like oh hey, I'mstruggling with this.
Have you found the solution forthis problem?
(21:11):
And it opens the door to have alittle bit deeper conversation.
We're not talking about theweather.
We're talking about actuallyI'm admitting that I'm not
perfect and I have struggles andit allows them to be like no, I
don't know what I'm doing thereeither.
And it opens that conversationand I've had people like and
(21:35):
then we'll talk for half an hourabout deeper stuff, and I've
had people come to me.
I didn't get their details oranything, I didn't see them
again for months and then maybethey showed up at a similar
event and they'll say oh hi,lydia, do you remember me?
We met at the park and it wasjust exactly what I needed that
day and that, to me, is likesuch a really neat ministry to
(22:01):
be able to do is that I'm I'mnot a shy person and so I'm able
to just talk to people anywhereand just see them, because I've
been the mom at the park whowas exhausted and depressed and
having horribly dark thoughtsbecause I was in that case
hormonally just all messed up,and I don't want to leave
(22:26):
anybody in that situation nothaving been seen.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, and you know you're speaking my language,
because we talk about being seenand known and heard and loved
and valued on this podcast.
But what I hear you sayingsomething just popped in my head
and reminded me of people don'tcare how much you know until
they know how much you care.
And that's not just amillennial thing.
That is, people want to be seenand known and heard and loved
(22:52):
and valued, and so I think thatanytime we have the opportunity
to interact with anybody, butparticularly this age group, you
know, we want to make sure thatthey feel valued and that their
concerns are heard.
Right, because I was justplaying around talking about how
we pick on millennials, oh, youguys are the ones that got the
participation trophies.
(23:13):
But if we walk into ourinteractions with this age group
thinking you're a bunch ofsofties, you can't handle hard
things, then we are not servingthem at all.
Perspective, as somebody inGeneration X, as I watch people
like you navigate life and youknow, and the generation below
(23:38):
me, you guys are a lot healthierthan than our generation.
I find that your generation isbetter at setting boundaries and
many times older people be all.
That's just the millennials.
You know doing their thing, andyou know, millennials don't
work, they don't overworkthemselves as a rule, and they
are not afraid to walk away fromrelationships that are not
healthy, that are, and you know,I hope that they're doing this
(23:59):
with some guidance and somewisdom.
But my point is is that this isa generation of people who we
could really help cultivate thatsoftness that tends to be in
this generation and I mean thatin a good way, this softness,
this receptiveness that thisgeneration can bring from my
generation who, just you know,we just go until we stop, and
(24:23):
that is especially true abouthard things.
We just something hard happened, oh okay.
Well, let me work harder.
Something hard happened, okay,let me go shopping.
Something hard happened, let medo this.
Something hard happened, let medo that.
Where my experience with yourgeneration having a lot of
interaction with millennials,like I said, I taught is that
your generation is much moreopen to honoring the hurt,
(24:46):
honoring the feelings, honoringthe hard stuff and and giving it
the respect that it deserves,and so we add Jesus into that.
And what an opportunity forthis beautiful vulnerability,
like you talked about, when youtalk to somebody at the park,
between you and God and betweenyou and other people is like
life is hard, god is good, andthat is not just a cliche, but
(25:09):
it is an opportunity for us tospeak into your life, because
there's this receptiveness therethat I at least observe that I
don't find in other generationsamong the millennials.
It's interesting because I'm ina couple weeks I guess actually
in a week, a week from tomorrowI'm going to be teaching a
lesson at our church on.
We're starting this amazingBible study For those of you
(25:33):
listening in Clearwater, come onWednesday nights.
But it's the questions thatJesus asked, and so the question
that I'm teaching on is whenJesus meets the man at the pool
of Bethesda who had been therefor 38 years, and he says to the
man do you want to get well?
Which seems like the most crazyquestion ever.
Right, but I think that yourgeneration wants to get well and
(25:56):
you're carrying maybe not you,because it seems like your
parents kind of broke somegenerational curses, but a lot
of people in this, in yourgeneration, are carrying with it
stuff from us, because we'recarrying stuff from the
generation before us, and so Ifind that the millennial
generation is our best hope forbreaking generational curses,
(26:18):
especially when it comes to thethings of the Lord.
That being said, you justmentioned to me you know, and
I've heard you talk about thison your own podcast and some on
mine, but we didn't deeplyexplore some of those dark times
and it's been interestingbecause you and I have been
friends on Facebook for a hotminute.
(26:38):
It's been cool to watch yougrow up right in front of my
eyes.
Frankly, can you tell us alittle bit about because there
are people listening to thisthat are in your age group, that
had children, that maybe hadsome significant postpartum
issues or who maybe are in thisvery moment have an earbud in
their ear in a dark room,wondering why they even want to
(26:59):
stay alive can you share alittle bit with us about that
time in your life, how youexperienced it?
Yeah, just how you experiencedit.
Yeah, just how you experiencedit in general, and how the world
or your environment around youkind of helped to hurt you.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It massively changed, changed me.
It changed my perception,because before that I couldn't
really understand how anybodycould ever get to the point of
choosing to end their life.
I thought what a selfish thing.
How could anybody even go thatway Like, how could you possibly
think that's better?
And so I was.
(27:40):
I probably was around 24, 26, 27.
And we had had a bunch of moves.
My husband had at that pointhad two major career losses and
part of that was a year and ahalf unemployed because of a
recession, and he was overoverqualified and it was like
(28:05):
the moves, it was lack of sleep,having little ones.
I was kind of burning thecandle at both ends because the
job that he had at the time washe'd get home really late.
The only time we could havequality time together alone was
after his shift because we hadtoddlers and baby and so I would
stay up late and I would get upvery early to try to let him
(28:28):
sleep in.
So I was getting probably fouror five hours a night if that,
and you know that's not verysustainable, right, and and I
still seemed on the outsidebecause I was also doing an MLM
thing.
I was very good at it, I'm verygood at sales.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I love yeah, I bet you were.
I love that.
Yeah, I bet you were.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I love sales, anything that I'm passionate
about.
I'm very good at doing that.
I had like 43 women on my team.
I wasn't making much money atall, but I was having fun and I
was coaching a bunch of people.
So I was doing that.
I was using that kind of as adistraction from the
difficulties of motherhood as adistraction from the
(29:13):
difficulties of motherhood andand I started to have these
thoughts of, uh, I'm, I'm notgood enough.
I'm not a good enough mother, Idon't really want to be
watching them, because it wasmore fun to do the MLM stuff.
Uh, that was more fulfilling,because here I was getting this
encouragement and this rah, rah,rah from my company and from
these ladies, and that's a lotmore fun than the day to day
(29:34):
with the baby and a toddler.
Um, so I ended up just gettingtotally depleted.
So mine was depression.
It was very, very much relatedto lack of sleep and I did not
know that I was dealing withdepression probably for several
(29:55):
weeks or several months, I'm notsure, until it got really bad
and I was thinking okay, I canlet the kids go to the
grandmothers, they'll be happythere, nobody's going to miss me
, I'm just not a very goodmother and all the time I look
perfectly normal on the outside.
So that hasn't changed.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Among the generations .
Just a side note, but go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So nobody would have guessed.
I didn't even guess.
I had no idea.
I had no idea I was dealingwith depression and, yeah, I was
having these feelings but Iwasn't associating them to
depression until finally I don'tknow why I just finally got a
(30:39):
bit scared of what I was feelingand the ideation and stuff and
I finally opened up to myhusband, who is safe he's always
been very safe and so I freelyadmit I am very blessed and
privileged to have these safeenvironments and I told him that
what I was feeling and I thinkfinally saying it out loud was
(31:05):
what made me realize it wasdepression.
And at that point, because itwas identified as, hey, this is
actually a real threat, I meanit was, it was pretty bad, I was
in a pretty if you had a plan.
We hospitalized those patientshere you know yeah and and I'd
(31:26):
had plenty of thoughts and, andthat really scared me.
And so once I said it out loud,I realized, oh wow, something
needs to change.
And so for me, how that lookedI'm a pretty logical person, so
every brain test I do, I'm likesmack dab down the middle, I'm
like 51 and 49% it's kind ofbizarre, kind of bizarre.
(31:56):
So for me, what made sense tome in that was okay, well, I
need to see why I feel sooverwhelmed, because I did.
I was completely overwhelmed inevery area.
Basically and I just started tomake a list of everything that
made me feel overwhelmed Icompletely stopped the MLM.
They had changed, the companyhad changed as well, and so I
didn't feel comfortable evenselling a lot of products
anymore.
Um, and they were pushing myteam to act like Americans, or
(32:19):
the Canadian market in NewZealand is not the same market
as America.
So it just wasn't working and Ikicked my team leader, the
person above me, out of my groupand stuff like that.
That's hilarious.
Stop it.
Boundaries right, I am good atboundaries.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And I'm telling you your generation is.
It annoys those of us in othergenerations, but you're very
good at boundaries and that's agreat thing.
But I'll tell you, lydia, whatyou highlight something for me
here that I had hoped tohighlight in this conversation
is that we need needed, as ageneration above you, to do a
better job of saying you know,teaching you and this is not a
(33:00):
slight on anybody like we youdon't know until you know, right
?
And so my generation, we justput our heads down and keep
doing things, and so depression,anxiety, what, what is?
That is what we think as as GenXers, and there's a fair amount
of addiction and all the thingsto that end, and so so then we,
then we have your generationwhere I don't think, not knowing
(33:23):
that that was depression isunique to your generation, I
don't think, but I do think thatpodcasts like this and
conversations like this can helpmoms out there or not, moms who
are having these feelings ofdepression, which is very hard
to explain, right.
I mean, we can try to put ourwords to the darkness, that is,
to the emptiness that it feels,to the dread that it feels, to
(33:43):
the just complete, you know,nonsensical thoughts that this
world would be better withoutyou.
You know nonsensical thoughtsthat this world would be better
without you, and so the factthat you didn't recognize that
is kind of the point of thispodcast and people listening of
any generation, right, that isnot normal to feel that way, and
if you're, if you're feeling ina way where you want to take
your life first of all, pleasereach out.
(34:04):
You can text or call 988.
In America I'm not sure aboutNew Zealand, but 988, lydia, do
you guys have something likethat there for suicide hotline?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, we definitely do have options.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Okay, and so please reach out to somebody and I
didn't mean to interrupt you, Ijust felt like that was really
important and so you talked toKim and tell us a little bit
more about, kind of, how you goton the other side of it.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, as you were saying, like with the, the thing
that kind of blew my mind wasthat.
You know, I told you thatoriginally I thought, oh, this
is just a selfish thing Ifanybody could ever think of
doing this yeah.
But this taught me about mentalillness and about your brain is
just not right.
(34:53):
About mental illness and aboutyour brain is just not right.
And how you, how I, as a, as aChristian who I still had a
close walk with God, I thought Ihow I could justify it, and it
has given me so much gracetoward those that deal with
these issues and toward thosethat do absolutely horrific
things in the name of trying tosay love their children and
(35:13):
maybe doing awful things andbecause in their mind and this
is what I understand now intheir mind it makes sense yeah,
and it's horrifying, right, butit's real and this is something
that people have to realize isokay, as you just said, like
this isn't normal.
(35:35):
So you know that that has givenme so much more grace toward
others.
Because if I, this person whogrew up very privileged, very
loved, very safe, up veryprivileged, very loved, very
safe, If I, through thishormonal change, as a lot of
people have, if I could feellike this and yet, ah, just, it
(36:00):
blew my mind and it has foreverchanged me, because I know that
every single person that I seecan be in this situation on a
ledge and they can lookperfectly normal and maybe they
just need somebody to to seethem and to ask them that hard
question or even just say hey,I'm kind of struggling today,
(36:24):
how are you doing, you know, andjust actually be real.
But the the way that I got outof it.
So I recognized what my issuewas by writing down all the
things that made me feeloverwhelmed.
So I just started making smallchanges.
I stopped the MLM thing, whichprobably freed up like a
bazillion hours a week becauseit was ridiculous and I focused
(36:46):
more on becoming a more wisemother.
I focused more on getting sleepbecause clearly that was an
issue.
I did little changes in justeven the household stuff to make
me feel less overwhelmed.
I honestly just went down thelist and tweaked a little things
(37:07):
.
It was very small things thatneeded to change.
That made a massive differenceand I think for a lot of people
obviously even to get to thelogical point where you can even
write it down is very difficult.
But that's why I tell peoplethat are struggling, if at all
possible, whatever is botheringyou.
Write it down, get it out ofyour head.
(37:28):
It's got all those bad pathwaysthat it keeps building and
there's science to that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
There's science to writing those things down.
I always tell people, if youcan this is actually I'm not a
doctor yet, but almost um, thisis actually scientifically
accurate.
First of all, writing it downis therapeutic, like you said,
it rewires the brain, all thethings.
If you can write with yournon-dominant hand, when you do
that, it's even more effectiveBecause what you're doing is
(37:55):
you're telling your brain likewe're okay here, right, and
that's so.
It's so interesting to me thatyou have that wisdom to know
what to do.
Like you needed to startsomewhere, like let me just
write down it.
I'm thinking when you're sayingthat, wow, I need to do that,
and I don't know that I have apiece of paper big enough to
write down all the things thatare overwhelming me.
(38:15):
And it's just this period oflife where joy and and and and
hard things are interminglingand good things are happening,
but I'm exhausted, but it's so Ido I agree with you on that is
to write it down.
You, we know that, that thatwisdom is the principal thing
and that we are promised wisdomif we ask it from God.
And so, if you are feeling thatway, especially as a young mom,
(38:38):
lydia.
Now you have four boys, and soI'm sure there are still things
that you have to do to take careof your mental health,
especially given the loss ofZeke, which I want to talk about
a little bit just to kind ofget an update on how you are.
And so, for those of you whodon't know, lydia's original
episode will be linked in theshow notes.
But Lydia and her husband, cam,lost their almost nine year old
(39:01):
son to to a rare form of cancer, and so and Lydia tells that
story in the description in theepisode I'll put in the show
notes.
That being said, I want to knowhow you are doing, because it
was hard over the holidays towatch, and I'm sure we all love
that feature of Facebook whereit gives us our memories, but
(39:25):
you were sharing this time lastyear and this was more in
December and kind of the rawemotions of all of that.
So, first of all, how long hasZeke been gone about?
What is it about?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
18 months, we're coming up two years two years.
So end of February is two years.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, and so I loved how you were walking it out,
especially over the holidays.
Very honestly, very honestly,it was, it was.
It was bittersweet to watch itplay out.
Tell us how you're doing.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I am honestly doing very well, probably 99% of the
time, and in the times that I dogrieve, it's the healthy grief.
And Cameron and I were talkingabout this just last night or
the night before, as I sobbedbecause you know you have
different triggers, you know youhave different triggers and um,
(40:32):
I went for the other day, waswatching, oh, I saw some video
in memories and it was of theboys playing on a hammock and um
just being silly and justmissing his mischievous smile
and and it reminded me I wascrying about that.
And then I was telling Cameronthat that day we'd been at the
park and so it must have beenyesterday and we'd been at the
(40:54):
park and Clay was who's eightnow, and he looks just like Zeke
, which is really tricky.
He had been chasing Josiah andjust as I watch that, just
(41:15):
knowing there's that gap thatcomes up quite often and knowing
that there was somebody else inbetween and isn't chasing him,
that's more of his speed andmore of his size, so that I was
crying to Cameron about it.
I didn't cry at the park.
I think I did tear up, but Icry when I need to cry and which
I think I'm so proud of youtogether, by the way because my
(41:37):
generation, we would just keepkeep going and not honoring that
, one of the most poignantthings I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You say um, both on.
I don't know if you said thison your own podcast, by the way.
I will put that in the shownotes too, but it's chats with
Lydia.
It's hard to get used to.
You said counting to four.
Now this was talking aboutbittersweet.
When you lost Zeke, you had anewborn and so you would have
(42:13):
had five, and you also, Ibelieve, have another baby in
heaven.
Tough stuff.
I think that is so healthy and,like you said, you were very
fortunate to grow up in safeenvironments and you're
fortunate to live in a safeenvironment.
I also think that there'ssomething to be said for where
you live in the world, becausein America, you know it's grind,
(42:35):
grind, grind, grind, grind, andI think there is a different
culture, and you've been in NewZealand since you were a
teenager and I think there's adifferent culture too.
But you cry when you need toand I think that that is so
healthy and so powerful and Ithink you know, as I get ready
to teach this lesson.
On this question that Jesusasked do you want to get?
(43:02):
Well, I think that your answerto that question has been in the
affirmative yeah, I want to getwell.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
And I often talk about being a good steward of
our pain, but I wonder what itlooks like to you to be a good
steward of about the differentgenerations.
I feel like because I to helpfacilitate other people's
conversations that nobody hasasked, and so, like when I lost
(43:58):
the baby in 2021, I asked on myFacebook page I said, for those
that have had miscarriages, whatis something you wish you would
have known before it happened?
And that opened up theconversation for women of all
ages and many women that were inthe silent generation even to
(44:19):
share their miscarriage for thefirst time.
And that, to me, helps with myhealing, because I get to give
them a platform of healingthrough sharing my grief, and
that's why I shared openly as welost Zeke and we went through
that trial and as the griefcontinues, because I I want them
(44:42):
to see that there's still hopeeven amidst loss.
Hope even amidst loss.
Um, I have people on my Facebookpage that um and my friends and
those in the groups that I'm inlike cause I'm in cancer groups
and stuff and and their livesare controlled by this grief and
(45:03):
they're no better, If not, ifnot worse, than they were the
day that it happened a decadeago and I grieve for them.
I grieve for the loss of all ofthose years, and so I'm very
thankful that I'm able to useour pain and to share with
(45:23):
others, that there's hope andthat our life is brief and we
don't know how it's going to end.
And so I had a friend todaysaying oh, I'm having my 40th
this year and I'm trying not tobe sad about it and I'm like
you've had 40 years of makingmemories.
What a blessing right.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Some people don't get to be 40.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Yeah, it's so exciting and God allowed us to
have every day as he's life.
Yeah, and love him well.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
You got to love him his whole life.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
We got every day that was intended, yeah, and so I
don't begrudge the days I didn'tget.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
And I can't.
And in times when I see Claychasing Josiah, I don't think,
or I might think for a splitsecond.
Oh, zeke should have been thererunning.
I do think that for a splitsecond and then I correct it in
my mind and I think no, we hadZeke the right amount of time
and he is delighted, dude he'srunning on the streets of gold
(46:25):
up there building Legos and allof the things.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
You know, one of the things, as we near the end of
our conversation, that I thinkthat is so, so important.
And I'm not going to saylacking in your generation, but
I'm going to say lacking in yourgeneration is this idea of
gratitude and this idea of I'mnot entitled to this beautiful
(46:51):
life and therefore I'm angry atGod because he took my son, or
I'm angry at God because I wasso depressed I wanted to take my
own life.
There is something so powerfulI don't care how old you are to
being grateful and and to say it.
(47:11):
And, as John Piper says, say ituntil your heart believes it.
Thank you, thank you, lord.
And I know in my own life, as Inavigate all the things I was
talking to somebody the otherday and you know, when I, when I
share my testimony which I willdo in a couple weeks it's a bit
overwhelming, it's a lot.
When I, when I share mytestimony which I will do in a
couple weeks, it's a bitoverwhelming, it's a lot right,
like I could literally choose toshare one part and it would be
(47:34):
just as powerful as if I, if I,shared the whole thing.
But I was talking to somebodyat work and because things just
pop out right.
And somebody asked me thequestion hey, amy, do you have
any kids?
And I did, lydia.
I'm sitting at a table withdoctors and nurses and other
social workers and othertherapists and, and without even
thinking about it, I said well,you know, I had a son, but he
(47:56):
died of a drug overdose and youcould have heard a pin drop in
that room.
And so later, as I was talking,one of my co workers said hey,
I want you to know.
I heard you when you said thatI don't even know what to say.
And to me I was just dropping,dropping the truth on him.
And she said I just don't evenknow how you navigate something
like that.
And I said Well, first of all,it's not yours to navigate it.
(48:18):
I wasn't.
That sounds rude.
I didn't mean it rude.
God didn't give you grace towalk through my pain, but I will
tell you this too, in thespirit of do you want to get
well?
And being a good steward of the, the healing is, I wouldn't
change a thing, not one, becauseI believe that those things has
(48:41):
brought me to this place in mylife and this has been true for
a long time where I have thisbeautiful relationship with my
savior, my god, because we'veduked out he and I have duked it
out already a long time agoabout the hard things and he is
my ever present help in trouble,my very best friend, and so I
wouldn't take a single bit of itback.
(49:01):
Do I have moments like you have, where you know the park, the
park moments we can?
We can air quote with that?
I've been having a lot of thoserecently about Kevin, my stepson
who died, and just about thatperiod of my life when I was
married.
I don't know why I've beenhaving like some weird
flashbacks to that time and Ithink on those times with
gratitude and I find myselfsaying about my husband, my
(49:25):
ex-husband John, I loved you.
About my husband, my ex-husbandJohn, I loved you, kevin, I
miss you.
And I wouldn't take it back foranything because, to your point
, it has brought me to thisplace where I have this
beautiful opportunity to relishin my healing.
Because I had a point where Ifelt like God said to me do you
(49:46):
want to get well from thesethings?
And I had a point where I hadto answer that question and I
think we all have a point wherewe have to answer that question.
Do we want to get well?
So I guess my final question toyou is for those listening out
there who are grieving withouthope, those listening out there
in dark rooms who are figuringout where they can take their
(50:08):
kids before they hurt themselves.
For those out there listeningwho are your age group and need
somebody to speak to them inlanguage that only your age
group understands.
I would love for you to takethe mic and talk to those people
for a minute about your hopeand what you take anything back
(50:31):
that the Lord has put in yourpath.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Friends, you're not alone.
We all know that we all cravepurpose and we're not enough
just within ourselves and neverwill be.
And we can try and, oh, we try.
But we're designed to have aclose relationship with our
(50:58):
creator and when we realize thatand actually just allow God to
love us how he desires to loveus, it doesn't mean you get a
perfect life.
It means that you have purpose,you have peace, you have joy.
It means that your life isn'tjust about your own pleasure and
(51:23):
it's just so much deeper and itfills that void.
And maybe there are smallchanges that need to be made and
maybe what you're dealing withis something that is hormonal,
and maybe it's something thatyou just need some small tweaks,
or maybe it's some more seriousstuff and you need to be
talking about it and getting itout.
(51:44):
But there are people that loveyou and your life is valuable.
Every day is a gift.
I don't begrudge God for takingZeke.
He was never mine to begin with.
He was lent to me and I alwaysbelieved that from day one, we
have a choice to become a victim.
(52:04):
Or we have a choice to become avictim, or we have a choice to
grow.
And my choice continues to bedaily.
I will grow, I will havegratitude.
I'm not going to focus on beinga victim and those that hurt me
, because I can't controlanybody else but myself and I
(52:25):
can't control things outside ofmy control, like how long those
that I love live.
I've learned through many, manyyears of reading biographies
and reading stories of people'shard and difficult moments that
God is enough, and those stories, they paved the way.
(52:48):
They paved the way for mystrong faith and they paved the
way for me, when I had to comeup against this loss, to be able
to trust God completely withevery fiber of my being, whether
I got to keep Zeke for longer,or whether I didn't or whether I
didn't.
And God is.
He's not just this, thisunreachable, untouchable,
(53:20):
imaginative thing.
Look around you.
You see people who love himwith all of their heart and he
changes their lives and he canchange yours and give you that
hope.
And so I just encourage you and, as you talk to people of all
different generations, just lovethem and if you don't know how
to start a conversation, askadvice, because that breaks
through barriers.
Even if you're older and youtalk to younger people, just ask
(53:44):
them a bit of advice and say,hey, I'm struggling with this,
have you found a solution?
And that opened so many doors.
And I've had older people say,hey, what would you suggest for
this?
And it's like so humbling, butit breaks that age gap and helps
you to love well, so just keeploving and keep seeing and just
(54:06):
know that you're very, veryloved and very important and God
has a purpose for your life.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Love it.
Love it as you were speaking.
You know it's the heart of thispodcast is we love people but,
moreover, we want them to knowthe perfect love of Jesus.
I could only think of a passageof scripture as you were
talking, because we've said somuch here today, gratitude being
(54:35):
so paramount, and I don't carehow old you are, gratitude is a
key to peace and happiness.
But I was thinking as you weretalking, because you said I
trust the Lord.
I had somebody come to me theother day.
I was at a meeting for churchand she had been in some
counseling and really had gottenthrough some really hard stuff.
And she said you know, I thinkI'm good about the things that
(54:57):
happened when I was younger.
But she said but now she hadlost her home in the hurricane.
She said but now I just have ahard time trusting God.
And I kind of looked at her andmy eyes teared up a little bit,
because I struggle with thatsometimes too.
And it's podcasts like this andstories like yours and
conversations like this thathelped me remember one of the
most basic scriptures in thehistory of the Bible, maybe one
(55:21):
of the ones that I firstmemorized, and I love it because
it's got such a logical themeto it, but Proverbs 3, 5, and 6,
trust in the Lord with all ofyour heart and lean not into
your own understanding, but inall of your ways, acknowledge
him, and he will direct yourpath.
(55:44):
And so, my friends, whateveryou're navigating today, I don't
care how old you are.
I hope that you have gainedsomething from this episode, but
, particularly if you are of themillennial generation, we thank
you for your openness.
We thank you for your breakingbarriers as it pertains to how
we deal with some of this stuff,but, moreover, we pray for you
and we are here for you as thoseof us who are older than you.
(56:05):
So, guys, thank you so much forlistening.
Lydia, thank you for being here.
Her podcast can be found in myshow notes.
She is a mom of four, and so itgets recorded and published
when it gets recorded andpublished.
But Chats with Lydia I thinkthey're Faith Chats with Lydia,
yes.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, Faith Chats with Lydia.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
I'll share in the show notes, but fantastic
conversations.
It's been cool to watch Lydiagrow this ministry that she has,
and so thank you for being here.
Guys, we'll be back in twoweeks.
Who knows what generation we'regoing to come up with now or
what podcast episodes coming intwo weeks.
Speaking of burning the candleat all the ends, we are doing
all the things as we are walkingthrough this doctoral journey.
(56:46):
So thanks again, lydia, forbeing here.
To the rest of you, you knowwhat I'm going to say.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are
loved and you been so, so good.
With every breath that I enable, oh, I will sing of the
(57:25):
goodness of God.
I love your voice.
You were led me through thefire and in darkness night you
were close like no other.
I've known you as a father,I've known you as a father, I've
(57:55):
known you as a friend, and Ihave lived in the goodness of
God, and all my life you havebeen faithful and all my life
you have been so, so good.
(58:16):
Every breath that I am able, Iwill sing of the goodness of God
.
Yeah, your goodness is runningafter me.
(58:37):
It's running after me.
Your goodness is running afterme.
It's running after me.
When my life laid down, Isurrender.
Now it's running after me.
My life laid down, I surrender.
Now I give you everything.
Your goodness is running after.
(58:59):
It's running after me.
Your goodness is running after.
It's running out today.
Your goodness running out.
It's running out today.
(59:21):
When my life fades out,surrender.
Now.
I'll give you everything.
Your goodness keeps runningafter me.
And all my life you have beenfaith.
(59:45):
You have been faithful, and allmy life you have been so, so
good With every breath that I amable.
Oh, I'm going to sing of thegoodness of God, I'm going to
(01:00:10):
sing, I'm going sing, I'm gonnasing.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh.
And all my life you have beenso, so good With every breath
(01:00:33):
that I had.
Now, oh, I'm gonna sing of thegoodness of God, oh, I'm gonna
sing of the goodness of God.
Let me pray for all my days.
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