August 25, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when a decorated Army lieutenant colonel with 20 years of service faces an unexpected divorce just as she's transitioning to civilian life? For Olivia Nunn, it meant becoming what she calls an "accidental entrepreneur." Despite having what she considered "the master playbook" for military transition from her work with the Army's Soldier for Life program, Nunn found herself at rock bottom, rebuilding her life and career from scratch.
This compelling conversation explores how female veterans can leverage their military experience to build successful businesses, despite facing unique challenges. Nunn, who served 10 years as a chemical officer and another decade in public affairs, shares her raw, honest journey of transformation. She reveals how a simple lunch meeting with a fellow veteran sparked her entrepreneurial journey when he asked, "Where's your LLC?" - reminding her of the valuable skills she possessed but had temporarily forgotten during her personal struggles.
The discussion tackles the primary barriers female veteran entrepreneurs face - particularly access to funding. Despite being the fastest-growing demographic in entrepreneurship across America, women veterans receive the least capital investment. Nunn addresses how women's tendency to seek 100% qualification before applying for opportunities (compared to men's comfort with 60%) creates self-imposed limitations, and how finding the right mentors can make all the difference.
For veterans considering entrepreneurship, this episode offers a treasure trove of free resources - from the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University offering free certification training, to Mill Mentor's online mentorship platform, to organizations like MOAA that serve all veterans regardless of rank. As Nunn powerfully states, "Age, your gender, and where you come from shouldn't stop you. Chase your dreams and don't let fear stop you." Connect with Olivia Nunn on social media to learn more about resources for veteran entrepreneurs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run this week.
Our guest is Olivia Nunn.
She is an Army veteran and hasa very strong background in
entrepreneurship for veteransand especially, I wanted to talk
to her today about femaleveterans and some of the ways
(00:23):
that they can get started intheir own business and some of
the resources that they can useas veterans to get starting
their own business.
So, olivia, welcome to thepodcast.
Olivia Nunn (00:35):
Thank you, larry.
So much for the invite.
I know we've tried to do thisfor a while and I'm finally here
, so I appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (00:41):
Yeah, that happens occasionally.
I get some guests just okay,we'll do it in a couple months.
Okay, we'll do it in a couplemonths.
Well, that day has come, andI'm really happy about that.
Why don't we start with youtelling us a little bit about
your Army career and especiallywhy you decided to join the Army
(01:01):
and not the Air Force?
Olivia Nunn (01:04):
So it all started because at the age of four, I
knew I was going to join theArmy and not the Air Force.
So it all started because atthe age of four, I knew I was
going to join the Army.
My dad is an Army vet, so I'msecond generation into the Army.
My dad was a combat engineer.
He was enlisted and did 12years and I am the oldest of
three girls for him and I'mdaddy's little girl and I knew I
wanted to join the Army.
And my dad said you can go, butyou have to become an officer.
(01:27):
I had no idea what he meant bythat.
I am first generation KoreanAmerican and education is super
important in our culture.
So he said you're going tobecome an officer, you're going
to get your education.
Sure, dad, whatever you say, Ijust knew that I wanted to be in
the Army.
What I was going to do, where Iwas going to go, how long I was
(01:50):
going to stay in, had no clue.
I just knew I wanted to be inthe army.
So I went to college, went toRadford University in.
Virginia, and then I ended upcommissioning.
Larry Zilliox (01:55):
Wow, and when was that?
Olivia Nunn (01:57):
I commissioned in 2001 and I was a chemical
officer initially, and I didthat for 10 years, and then I
became a public affairs officerfor another 10 years, and so I
finished out doing 20 years atthe rank of lieutenant colonel.
Larry Zilliox (02:11):
Wow, wow.
And a chemical officer.
Do you work with chemicalmunitions, or what is that all
about?
Olivia Nunn (02:22):
Well, technically the whole entire title, if
you're ready for it.
It's a little mouthful.
It's CBRN Chemical, biological,radiological, nuclear.
Really, what that does is thechemical officer, or chemo for
short, is in charge ofunderstanding any of those types
of incidences on thebattlefield, to either go around
or work through thoseincidences on the battlefield
and to tell the commander hey,sir ma'am, that type of CBRN
(02:46):
incident happened on thebattlefield and either we're
going to we recommend you tofight through that or go around.
So really you're a reactivestaff member on the staff.
So when the chemo's actuallydoing their job it's a bad day
for everybody.
Larry Zilliox (03:02):
Sure, did you have to wear those funky suits
and the masks and everything andlike they used to put us in
those occasionally when I was inGuam and you just about die
from the heat and sweat.
Was there a lot of that kind ofthing?
Yes, MOP4.
Olivia Nunn (03:21):
Yes, so as a chemical officer you actually
have to be certified in MOT4.
At Fort Leonard Wood inMissouri you actually have to go
through a certification processwhere you're you don on that
equipment.
You actually go throughchambers where they actually
bring in live agents and you gothrough scenarios and be able to
(03:41):
clear through it.
Larry Zilliox (03:43):
OK, well, I'll tell you, public affairs sounds
a little bit easier than that.
Did you enjoy your time inpublic affairs?
Olivia Nunn (03:53):
I did.
My choice to move from chemicalto public affairs was a
personal choice and the Armygranted that for me, because I
felt like I'd outgrown thechemical positions within the
military and I wanted to dosomething different and I
thought being a storytellerwould best fit me, because I've
always been a storyteller.
I've always crafted stories inmy head ever since I was a kid
(04:15):
and I thought that would be abetter fit and I truly did enjoy
that, as I did that at thestrategic level in the Army.
Larry Zilliox (04:22):
So you hit your 20 and you get out.
Now was this something you hadplanned to do and said in your
mind I'm only doing 20, whenthat day comes up, I'm out of
here, or what brought you tothat point where you say it's
time for me to get out?
Olivia Nunn (04:39):
I think, just like anybody else, you go through
phases in your military careerwhere you enjoy and love the
military, where you're like I'ma lifer, and then there's other
times like I can't stand this, Iwant to get out.
And I definitely had thoseperiods.
My first eight years in themilitary went by so fast.
I deployed three times in myearly career.
I went to Iraq three timesduring OIF-1, during the surge
(05:01):
period and then when we turnedover the cities to Iraq.
And so for me, my first eightyears went by literally in a
blink of an eye.
And the next thing I know I hit12 years.
And everybody knows if you passthat 10-year threshold, you
don't quit.
And it's when I hit that12-year threshold that I was not
(05:23):
in love with the Army anymore.
I really, really hated the army, but you don't quit.
So I was just counting down toeight more years to get out.
And then I made LieutenantColonel and I had three years
left.
And then I fell in love withthe army again.
I was like this I love this, Iwant to stay in.
But at that point I had twochildren.
I had a daughter and now a son,so I'm an older mom because I
(05:46):
chose to chase my career when Iwas younger and I thought about
staying in.
However, the Army had adifferent idea for me.
I was dual military at the time.
I was married to another Armylieutenant colonel.
He was a cyber officer at thattime and they were constantly
trying to spread us apart,pushing me to different places,
pushing him to different places,and I just could not fathom
(06:09):
living a life where we were, youknow, pushing our kids between
us to different locations, andfor me, that was a whole reason
why I was an older mom, becauseI didn't want to do that as a
mom that was younger.
And so we just came to thischoice where, you know what,
we've had a great run 20 years.
There's nothing wrong with 20years and being lieutenant
(06:30):
colonels.
So we decided to punch ourclock.
Larry Zilliox (06:33):
No, yeah.
And so what was that like foryou as a female veteran and an
officer?
What was that transition likefor you?
Olivia Nunn (06:42):
It was for me.
It was rough Even though I wasfor me.
It was rough Even though I wasfor me.
It was rough for a couple ofdifferent personal reasons, but
at the same time, I thought Iwas ready.
So I was naive in some ways,and here's why I was working for
US Army Soldier for Life and wewere in the business of
transitioning service members.
So I had the master playbookand I did that for the last
(07:04):
three years of my career andthat's why a lot of people
actually know me.
I was Lieutenant Colonel OliviaNunn.
I had created one of the firstArmy podcast series.
I was all over social media.
I traveled all over the worldgiving presentations on behalf
of the US Army and I loved whatI did.
And I had this master playbookon how to transition well.
(07:27):
I created connections andnetworks with corporate America
and with other militarynonprofits civilian nonprofits
on how to get out of youruniform and do it well.
So I thought this is going tobe easy for me because I have
the master notebook.
What I didn't take into accountfor was Murphy's Law and what it
(07:51):
does for you in your personallife, as I dropped my paperwork
and was preparing for that lastyear, to step out of my uniform,
I went through an unexpecteddivorce and everything that I
had planned for, everything thatI thought I was going to do
that, just went out the window.
And here I was at rock bottom,going through an unexpected
(08:13):
divorce, all the plans that Ihad of how I was going to live
my life completely shattered,and I was disillusioned too, and
I had to rebuild my life.
And in rebuilding my life, thisis where I said I became an
accidental entrepreneur, becausenowhere in my playbook did I
say I was going to be anentrepreneur.
I was going to be anentrepreneur, I was going to
work nonprofit or maybe go intocorporate, just kind of like
(08:36):
this easy side thing that I wasgoing to do while my spouse was
going to go create this milliondollar company and I was going
to raise our kids.
And that's not what happened.
Larry Zilliox (08:47):
Yeah, wow.
And for our listeners, I willput in the show notes a link to
the episode that we did with andI can't remember his name,
forgive me right now, but thehead of the Soldier for Life
program.
I think it was back in seasontwo and it's a great episode.
And I've always told peoplethat the Army has the best
(09:07):
program for transitioning and itis that Soldier for Life
program.
The other services just don'tcompare.
They do offer TAPS programs andhelp with transitioning to a
certain extent, which is lightyears ahead of when I was in.
When I was in, there was no help.
They said oh, you're gettingout, oh, goodbye, here's your
(09:28):
ticket home.
They weren't going to spend adime on you because you were
getting out.
You were of no value to them.
So I definitely applaud theArmy for that program and I'm
sure you were very instrumentalin developing it and it has
helped a lot of Army veteransand continues to help a lot of
Army veterans.
Talk a little bit about youfind yourself now out.
(09:50):
Your tribe is no longer withyou.
You're a veteran.
Did you file any claims withthe VA nonprofit?
Olivia Nunn (09:55):
a major VSO and getting my claim through.
So the literally the day that Ibecame a civilian, my medical
(10:17):
disability kicked in.
So at least that part of mylife went relatively smoothly.
The rest of my life did not.
I was, I was literally mentallychecked out.
When I say I hit rock bottom, Ihit rock bottom.
My mind was filled withdarkness.
I couldn't remember half thetime what I was doing.
(10:40):
Simple things like did I brushmy teeth?
Today I really hit rock bottomin many ways, and so at least I
did that part right and I'mthankful for that.
Larry Zilliox (10:51):
Wow.
And so you're at that plateauwhere that part right and I'm
thankful for that Wow.
And so you're at that plateauwhere you get out.
You're experiencing thoseproblems.
When does the idea aboutentrepreneurship, or you're
going to kind of bootstrap yourway out of that hole, in a sense
, come to you, and what doesthat look like?
Olivia Nunn (11:10):
So for me, my story and my journey for being an
entrepreneur is the following asI'm trying to rebuild my life,
a very good friend of mine thatI had been working with while I
was in the military ScottDavidson, who's a co-founder of
Veterans Success Resource Groupwho I still work with right now
I'm the chief marketing officerfor that non-profit he called me
(11:31):
up and he said hey, let's go dolunch.
So we went and had lunch andhe's like Olivia, tell me, tell
me straight.
I know things aren't goinggreat, what's going on?
And so I kind of bared it allout and I was like you know,
this divorce isn't going great.
I'm just not feeling all thatgreat.
And he we just had this heartto heart-heart conversation and
he's like where's your LLC?
And I kind of gave him thisdeer in the headlight, look, and
(11:53):
I was like what?
He's like?
Hey, let me, I need you to kindof get your stuff together, I
need you to create an LLC.
And I was like what it's like?
Because we got work to do, Igot, I got work for you.
And I just kind of sat therekind of dumbfounded and I and I
kind of had this epiphany inthat split second, and he
reminded me of multipleconversations that had happened
(12:16):
to me while I was at Soldier forLife, where people constantly
told me Olivia, you need tocreate an LLC when you go out.
As a PR specialist I consultedon behalf of the Army to
companies all the time, on adaily basis, on the skill set
that I had as a communicationsexpert.
(12:36):
And having this conversationwith Scott, he just reminded me
of who I was and my purpose andwhat I was capable of.
So I left that lunch just kindof renewed with some sense of
hope of hey, I can do this, Ican have a life and no longer
wallow in misery.
(12:57):
And so a week later, born fromthat conversation, was Olivia
Nunn Communications.
I really still didn't jumpgung-ho into entrepreneurship.
My LLC was born but I reallydidn't know what I was doing
just quite yet.
Time kind of moves forward.
I start picking up clients justlittle bit here and there hey,
olivia, can you help me withthis little small project?
(13:19):
You know social media here, etcetera.
I pick up a major client who'sin the substance use space and
they were looking for acommunications expert, branding
expert, because they want togrow in the military space and
it was supposed to be a shortcontract.
That short contract turned intoa big contract.
I ended up making more moneywith them than my daytime job as
(13:41):
a defense contractor doingpublic affairs work in a skiff
which I hated, by the way.
So I kind of made the jump andsaid I could do this, working
from home on my own time, andhave time to do what I love,
which is non-profit work and oh,by the way, my boss at work is
not that cool.
Uh, this is a no-brainer.
(14:02):
So I jumped ship and went allin working for myself, and that
really was where I said I wasthe accidental entrepreneur,
where I went all in on myself.
I started doubling down onmyself and said I can do this,
and I had a great ride for alittle bit.
And then the economy came inand my company just went
(14:24):
flatline.
And so it's been the story ofI've done well and then I don't.
I do well and then I don't.
Story of I've done well andthen I don't.
I do well and then I don't.
And those are the lessons thatI'm learning as an entrepreneur
of all the little things ofbanking and what do you do with
your taxes or what you don't dowith your taxes, and I've
(14:44):
completely bootstrapped mycompany since day one.
Larry Zilliox (14:47):
Well, for our listeners too.
What the Colonel is describingas an LLC is Limited Liability
Corporation, and it's used bycontractors all over, so when a
company hires you for a contract, they're paying your company
instead of you directly a verycommon vehicle for consultants,
(15:10):
especially in the NorthernVirginia area, but that's what
we're talking about there withan LLC.
So what do you think is thenumber one barrier that keeps
female veterans from startingtheir own companies?
Olivia Nunn (15:24):
I would say access to funds.
You know, I've got some friendsthat work in banking and
they'll tell you that.
I mean there's statistics thattalk about that.
The fastest growing part ofentrepreneurship are women.
In fact, women veterans are thefastest growing right now
across the US, but they actuallyhave the least amount of access
(15:48):
to capital funds.
And I think part of it is thefollowing Part of it is the way
we are as women.
It's how we show up, it's how wethink about ourselves.
We tend to not apply for jobsif we don't think we check all
the boxes.
It's also how we doubtourselves, or we think that
(16:11):
we're not capable or confidentin terms of being able to do
something, whereas men is like,eh, 50, 60 percent, that's good
enough, I'm going to roll withit.
So I think part of it is that Ithink there's fear in having
all your ducks in a row and thengoing after it.
I think it's also exposure andhaving access to people that can
(16:34):
get you into the right placesat the right time.
And I know for me, I'm such avisual learner and so when
you're trying to build thisportfolio of things, that you
need to go after a grant or goin front of a board in order to
compete for funds and they'reasking you for this.
You know portfolio of thingsthat you need.
(16:55):
Sometimes it's you have no ideawhat they're asking for and
you're just kind of looking atdumbfoundedly, going wait, you
want a year's worth of XYZ andyou're like that sounds like
great to me.
You know how do you get thosethings together?
So I think it's a few of thosethings all mixed into one, as
you're trying to do those thingsat the same time run your
(17:17):
company and you're trying tomake money all at the same time
and then somewhere along the way, as a business owner, you're
going to hit this point whereyou need to hire somebody
because you are at that pointyou need to.
You're going to hit this pointwhere you need to hire somebody
because you are at that pointyou need to, but you're right at
that breaking point wherehiring somebody is going to
break you at the same time.
So it's like that dog chasingits own tail.
Larry Zilliox (17:38):
Yeah, it's a hard decision actually.
Plus, you're also relinquishingsome control and you know
starting a business is hard foreveryone.
I really think that mentorshipis huge for veterans, other
veterans who have been down thatpath, and for female veterans.
(17:58):
I just don't think that there'sthe same level of mentorship
available out there.
What would you say is the bestway for a female veteran to find
a mentor?
Olivia Nunn (18:11):
I completely agree with what you say in terms of
mentorship.
It's mentorship not just inbusiness.
I think it's mentorship in life.
It's finding somebody that youresonate with.
You've got to ask and then atthe same time it's making that
time with that person and thatperson making time with you.
And especially here in DC.
The word busy is part of ourvocabulary and I think the word
(18:35):
busy gets so stuck in our everysingle day vernacular that it
gets in the way of life,everything from our business to
how we show up in our familylife, to our kids, to our
community.
And I think that affects evenhow you approach mentorship,
whether you're a mentor or amentee.
(18:55):
And then I think there's a bitof ego too.
Larry Zilliox (18:58):
Right.
Olivia Nunn (18:59):
That maybe you might think that I don't need a
mentor.
So I think you've got to checkyour ego at the door and say you
know I need a mentor.
But I think the other got tocheck your ego at the door and
say you know I need a mentor.
But I think the other part,especially for women, it's the
uncomfortableness sometimes infinding or talking to a male
Because there's a lack ofrepresentation in women that are
(19:20):
out there, that are successful,that can potentially show the
ropes to another woman.
Larry Zilliox (19:26):
So I think it's important that female veterans
who are looking at trying tostart their own company.
I think what you just said isimportant in that you can't not
find a mentor just because youcan't find a female veteran
mentor.
So if you can find a mentorwho's a male veteran or a male
(19:49):
who's in the same business Imean exact same business can
walk you through just aboutanything, I think you actually
absolutely have to jump at that.
You can't say, well, I want afemale, so I'm just going to
pass that by as you network inyour community through business
associations, things like that,and while a female veteran
(20:10):
mentor might be good, but ifthey don't know anything about
your business, then that mightnot work out as well either.
And nobody says you can't havemore than one, so you could have
a guy help you on the businessstandpoint, but then have a
female veteran mentor throughlife who's walked that path
(20:30):
ahead of you.
I often think you know femaleveterans almost in every aspect,
are just underrepresented,whether it's healthcare, mental
health issues and in business aswell.
There is plenty of business outthere for veteran female-owned
companies, especially in thenorthern Virginia area, if you
(20:51):
can find somebody withcontracting experience and you
have skills that transferred tothe civilian community.
I mean, there's business outthere and I'm just afraid that
some of our female veteransaren't thinking through and
saying, okay, this is what I didand how does that translate to
the civilian community?
(21:11):
And if you can get in as acontractor for some of these
agencies, you'll make atremendous amount of money.
What do you think is the bestway for a female veteran to get
an understanding of how theirskills from the military
transfer to the civiliancommunity?
Olivia Nunn (21:28):
I'm a big advocate as a veteran to utilize the
resources that are out there.
There are a plethora ofnonprofits that we can access as
veterans for free.
Ivmf is a great one out ofSyracuse that has a lot of
resources that help you as aveteran to start your own
(21:48):
business.
Larry Zilliox (21:49):
Free training too .
Olivia Nunn (21:50):
Free training, right?
An example off the top of myhead, like if you wanted to get
your project management right.
They provide all the courseworkand the assistance to get you
through project management forfree.
The only thing you have to dois that you would pay for the
actual exam at the end, and it'snot a whole lot for the exam
but the coursework.
(22:10):
If you were to pay for thecoursework, that's a few
thousand dollars but you weregetting that for free.
That's just an example.
And they do the same if you aretrying to go through coursework
to understand how to become anentrepreneur.
That's IVMF.
There's another one based out ofUtah, that my good friend,
jason VanCamp, and you know hedoes.
(22:33):
You know there is a wait listfor that, but again, there's a
wait list because it is a greatcourse.
But if that's what you want topursue, you know, chase that and
there's more that's out there.
And then, if you're talkingabout mentorship, right, mill
mentor.
That's a free online mentorshipthat you can sign up for.
(22:53):
Peter Klein, it is a co-founderof that sign up, right, you
could.
There's plenty of mentors thatare on there that you could find
.
I happen to be one of thementors that are on there.
If you want to talk aboutcommunications or transition,
you mean, I'm just one of manymentors that are on there.
If you want to talk aboutcommunications or transition, I
mean, I'm just one of manymentors that are on there.
So utilize these resources thatare available to you as a
(23:16):
veteran, access them and takeadvantage of that and chase it
right.
It's the same as what we usedto say in Soldier for Life in
terms of your transition youhave to be an active member of
your transition to be successful.
You can't have the attitude ofI'm just going to sit here and
just let it come to me.
(23:37):
See, what happens.
Absolutely.
You cannot take it that way,right?
You have to get up and chase it.
And here's the other part andI've noticed this, and if anyone
happens to follow me on socialmedia, is that age, your gender
and where you come fromshouldn't stop you.
Chase your dreams and don't letfear stop you.
(23:57):
I've always wanted to fly andit's something I finally decided
to do and I had a great timedoing it.
I've always wondered what wouldit be like to do a bodybuilding
competition, and I finally didthat.
You know, I'm 47 years old andthe parts of me feel super old,
(24:19):
with all the injuries that Ihave, and then the other parts
of me is like I've got so manymore years to live, and so I
want to check off this list ofthings that I want to achieve or
do in my life.
You know, jumping out of aperfectly working airplane not
military style, right?
You know that's on my list too.
So if you have a thought orthis, I wonder can I do this?
(24:42):
Chase it.
Larry Zilliox (24:43):
Yeah, for sure.
There's no barriers.
There's only the barriers thatyou put up for yourself, really.
And well, can't thank youenough for coming out today and
talking to us about this is justgreat that there's so much out
there.
When you talk about resources,the hardest part is trying to
find them actually and know thatthey're out there.
(25:05):
Moa is another organizationthat will help Military Officers
Association of America.
So, you know, reach out,definitely reach out and find
them.
Join these veteran serviceorganizations in your community.
You know, join the AmericanLegion, join the VFW.
Yeah, they're full of old guys,but a lot of times they're full
(25:27):
of old guys who had companiesand ran companies and who are
happy to answer questions andhelp you out.
So, you know, think of all thedifferent ways that you could
find the help that you need andreach out.
Don't build barriers foryourself.
Olivia Nunn (25:43):
Absolutely.
I mean MOA.
You know, you mentioned them.
I used to podcast for MOA.
They're a great organizationand I don't want people to think
that.
Well, he said it's MilitaryOfficers Association.
That's a big, you know myth.
You don't have to be an officerto be part of that organization
.
They are a lobbyingorganization on behalf of the
military right.
They're the ones that go on toCapitol Hill to fight for our
(26:04):
benefits.
You know another one AmericanCorporate Company, acp right
Another great mentorshiporganization.
Oh, by the way, they're goingto help you get jobs Recruit
Military.
That's another greatorganization.
If you're on the job market,there's so many great
organizations.
And if you don't know where tostart, again you know, get
(26:30):
online, find somebody who's beenaround, who knows these
resources, and just hey, do yougot a minute?
Can you help me find anorganization that could
potentially point me in thedirection of XYZ?
Larry Zilliox (26:37):
And don't overlook state organizations
that there are agencies of likeeconomic development and they
have entire business plans sothat if you go to them and say I
want to open up a business thatsells honey, they very often
will have everything you need toopen that business in.
(26:58):
That state Says you got to getthis permit, you got to do this,
you got to file for that, andso all that is out there
franchises.
Sometimes it can be too much,but there's a tremendous amount
of resources out there that wereally don't want you to
overlook.
So, Colonel, thank you forsitting down with us and talking
today.
It's been wonderful.
Olivia Nunn (27:19):
No, thank you for the chance to sit down and have
this conversation and if anybodywants to connect with me, I am
online.
You can find me on Facebook,you can find me on Instagram and
on LinkedIn.
I believe that you should havesome social presence and I'm
happy to connect with anyone.
Larry Zilliox (27:33):
Yeah, we'll have the webpage linked in the show
notes so you can go there andreach out if you have any
questions.
So thank you so much and, forour listeners, we'll have
another episode next Mondaymorning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America Radio.
(27:54):
Thanks for listening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run this week.
Our guest is Olivia Nunn.
She is an Army veteran and hasa very strong background in
entrepreneurship for veteransand especially, I wanted to talk
to her today about femaleveterans and some of the ways
(00:23):
that they can get started intheir own business and some of
the resources that they can useas veterans to get starting
their own business.
So, olivia, welcome to thepodcast.
Olivia Nunn (00:35):
Thank you, larry.
So much for the invite.
I know we've tried to do thisfor a while and I'm finally here
, so I appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (00:41):
Yeah, that happens occasionally.
I get some guests just okay,we'll do it in a couple months.
Okay, we'll do it in a couplemonths.
Well, that day has come, andI'm really happy about that.
Why don't we start with youtelling us a little bit about
your Army career and especiallywhy you decided to join the Army
(01:01):
and not the Air Force?
Olivia Nunn (01:04):
So it all started because at the age of four, I
knew I was going to join theArmy and not the Air Force.
So it all started because atthe age of four, I knew I was
going to join the Army.
My dad is an Army vet, so I'msecond generation into the Army.
My dad was a combat engineer.
He was enlisted and did 12years and I am the oldest of
three girls for him and I'mdaddy's little girl and I knew I
wanted to join the Army.
And my dad said you can go, butyou have to become an officer.
(01:27):
I had no idea what he meant bythat.
I am first generation KoreanAmerican and education is super
important in our culture.
So he said you're going tobecome an officer, you're going
to get your education.
Sure, dad, whatever you say, Ijust knew that I wanted to be in
the Army.
What I was going to do, where Iwas going to go, how long I was
(01:50):
going to stay in, had no clue.
I just knew I wanted to be inthe army.
So I went to college, went toRadford University in.
Virginia, and then I ended upcommissioning.
Larry Zilliox (01:55):
Wow, and when was that?
Olivia Nunn (01:57):
I commissioned in 2001 and I was a chemical
officer initially, and I didthat for 10 years, and then I
became a public affairs officerfor another 10 years, and so I
finished out doing 20 years atthe rank of lieutenant colonel.
Larry Zilliox (02:11):
Wow, wow.
And a chemical officer.
Do you work with chemicalmunitions, or what is that all
about?
Olivia Nunn (02:22):
Well, technically the whole entire title, if
you're ready for it.
It's a little mouthful.
It's CBRN Chemical, biological,radiological, nuclear.
Really, what that does is thechemical officer, or chemo for
short, is in charge ofunderstanding any of those types
of incidences on thebattlefield, to either go around
or work through thoseincidences on the battlefield
and to tell the commander hey,sir ma'am, that type of CBRN
(02:46):
incident happened on thebattlefield and either we're
going to we recommend you tofight through that or go around.
So really you're a reactivestaff member on the staff.
So when the chemo's actuallydoing their job it's a bad day
for everybody.
Larry Zilliox (03:02):
Sure, did you have to wear those funky suits
and the masks and everything andlike they used to put us in
those occasionally when I was inGuam and you just about die
from the heat and sweat.
Was there a lot of that kind ofthing?
Yes, MOP4.
Olivia Nunn (03:21):
Yes, so as a chemical officer you actually
have to be certified in MOT4.
At Fort Leonard Wood inMissouri you actually have to go
through a certification processwhere you're you don on that
equipment.
You actually go throughchambers where they actually
bring in live agents and you gothrough scenarios and be able to
(03:41):
clear through it.
Larry Zilliox (03:43):
OK, well, I'll tell you, public affairs sounds
a little bit easier than that.
Did you enjoy your time inpublic affairs?
Olivia Nunn (03:53):
I did.
My choice to move from chemicalto public affairs was a
personal choice and the Armygranted that for me, because I
felt like I'd outgrown thechemical positions within the
military and I wanted to dosomething different and I
thought being a storytellerwould best fit me, because I've
always been a storyteller.
I've always crafted stories inmy head ever since I was a kid
(04:15):
and I thought that would be abetter fit and I truly did enjoy
that, as I did that at thestrategic level in the Army.
Larry Zilliox (04:22):
So you hit your 20 and you get out.
Now was this something you hadplanned to do and said in your
mind I'm only doing 20, whenthat day comes up, I'm out of
here, or what brought you tothat point where you say it's
time for me to get out?
Olivia Nunn (04:39):
I think, just like anybody else, you go through
phases in your military careerwhere you enjoy and love the
military, where you're like I'ma lifer, and then there's other
times like I can't stand this, Iwant to get out.
And I definitely had thoseperiods.
My first eight years in themilitary went by so fast.
I deployed three times in myearly career.
I went to Iraq three timesduring OIF-1, during the surge
(05:01):
period and then when we turnedover the cities to Iraq.
And so for me, my first eightyears went by literally in a
blink of an eye.
And the next thing I know I hit12 years.
And everybody knows if you passthat 10-year threshold, you
don't quit.
And it's when I hit that12-year threshold that I was not
(05:23):
in love with the Army anymore.
I really, really hated the army, but you don't quit.
So I was just counting down toeight more years to get out.
And then I made LieutenantColonel and I had three years
left.
And then I fell in love withthe army again.
I was like this I love this, Iwant to stay in.
But at that point I had twochildren.
I had a daughter and now a son,so I'm an older mom because I
(05:46):
chose to chase my career when Iwas younger and I thought about
staying in.
However, the Army had adifferent idea for me.
I was dual military at the time.
I was married to another Armylieutenant colonel.
He was a cyber officer at thattime and they were constantly
trying to spread us apart,pushing me to different places,
pushing him to different places,and I just could not fathom
(06:09):
living a life where we were, youknow, pushing our kids between
us to different locations, andfor me, that was a whole reason
why I was an older mom, becauseI didn't want to do that as a
mom that was younger.
And so we just came to thischoice where, you know what,
we've had a great run 20 years.
There's nothing wrong with 20years and being lieutenant
(06:30):
colonels.
So we decided to punch ourclock.
Larry Zilliox (06:33):
No, yeah.
And so what was that like foryou as a female veteran and an
officer?
What was that transition likefor you?
Olivia Nunn (06:42):
It was for me.
It was rough Even though I wasfor me.
It was rough Even though I wasfor me.
It was rough for a couple ofdifferent personal reasons, but
at the same time, I thought Iwas ready.
So I was naive in some ways,and here's why I was working for
US Army Soldier for Life and wewere in the business of
transitioning service members.
So I had the master playbookand I did that for the last
(07:04):
three years of my career andthat's why a lot of people
actually know me.
I was Lieutenant Colonel OliviaNunn.
I had created one of the firstArmy podcast series.
I was all over social media.
I traveled all over the worldgiving presentations on behalf
of the US Army and I loved whatI did.
And I had this master playbookon how to transition well.
(07:27):
I created connections andnetworks with corporate America
and with other militarynonprofits civilian nonprofits
on how to get out of youruniform and do it well.
So I thought this is going tobe easy for me because I have
the master notebook.
What I didn't take into accountfor was Murphy's Law and what it
(07:51):
does for you in your personallife, as I dropped my paperwork
and was preparing for that lastyear, to step out of my uniform,
I went through an unexpecteddivorce and everything that I
had planned for, everything thatI thought I was going to do
that, just went out the window.
And here I was at rock bottom,going through an unexpected
(08:13):
divorce, all the plans that Ihad of how I was going to live
my life completely shattered,and I was disillusioned too, and
I had to rebuild my life.
And in rebuilding my life, thisis where I said I became an
accidental entrepreneur, becausenowhere in my playbook did I
say I was going to be anentrepreneur.
I was going to be anentrepreneur, I was going to
work nonprofit or maybe go intocorporate, just kind of like
(08:36):
this easy side thing that I wasgoing to do while my spouse was
going to go create this milliondollar company and I was going
to raise our kids.
And that's not what happened.
Larry Zilliox (08:47):
Yeah, wow.
And for our listeners, I willput in the show notes a link to
the episode that we did with andI can't remember his name,
forgive me right now, but thehead of the Soldier for Life
program.
I think it was back in seasontwo and it's a great episode.
And I've always told peoplethat the Army has the best
(09:07):
program for transitioning and itis that Soldier for Life
program.
The other services just don'tcompare.
They do offer TAPS programs andhelp with transitioning to a
certain extent, which is lightyears ahead of when I was in.
When I was in, there was no help.
They said oh, you're gettingout, oh, goodbye, here's your
(09:28):
ticket home.
They weren't going to spend adime on you because you were
getting out.
You were of no value to them.
So I definitely applaud theArmy for that program and I'm
sure you were very instrumentalin developing it and it has
helped a lot of Army veteransand continues to help a lot of
Army veterans.
Talk a little bit about youfind yourself now out.
(09:50):
Your tribe is no longer withyou.
You're a veteran.
Did you file any claims withthe VA nonprofit?
Olivia Nunn (09:55):
a major VSO and getting my claim through.
So the literally the day that Ibecame a civilian, my medical
(10:17):
disability kicked in.
So at least that part of mylife went relatively smoothly.
The rest of my life did not.
I was, I was literally mentallychecked out.
When I say I hit rock bottom, Ihit rock bottom.
My mind was filled withdarkness.
I couldn't remember half thetime what I was doing.
(10:40):
Simple things like did I brushmy teeth?
Today I really hit rock bottomin many ways, and so at least I
did that part right and I'mthankful for that.
Larry Zilliox (10:51):
Wow.
And so you're at that plateauwhere that part right and I'm
thankful for that Wow.
And so you're at that plateauwhere you get out.
You're experiencing thoseproblems.
When does the idea aboutentrepreneurship, or you're
going to kind of bootstrap yourway out of that hole, in a sense
, come to you, and what doesthat look like?
Olivia Nunn (11:10):
So for me, my story and my journey for being an
entrepreneur is the following asI'm trying to rebuild my life,
a very good friend of mine thatI had been working with while I
was in the military ScottDavidson, who's a co-founder of
Veterans Success Resource Groupwho I still work with right now
I'm the chief marketing officerfor that non-profit he called me
(11:31):
up and he said hey, let's go dolunch.
So we went and had lunch andhe's like Olivia, tell me, tell
me straight.
I know things aren't goinggreat, what's going on?
And so I kind of bared it allout and I was like you know,
this divorce isn't going great.
I'm just not feeling all thatgreat.
And he we just had this heartto heart-heart conversation and
he's like where's your LLC?
And I kind of gave him thisdeer in the headlight, look, and
(11:53):
I was like what?
He's like?
Hey, let me, I need you to kindof get your stuff together, I
need you to create an LLC.
And I was like what it's like?
Because we got work to do, Igot, I got work for you.
And I just kind of sat therekind of dumbfounded and I and I
kind of had this epiphany inthat split second, and he
reminded me of multipleconversations that had happened
(12:16):
to me while I was at Soldier forLife, where people constantly
told me Olivia, you need tocreate an LLC when you go out.
As a PR specialist I consultedon behalf of the Army to
companies all the time, on adaily basis, on the skill set
that I had as a communicationsexpert.
(12:36):
And having this conversationwith Scott, he just reminded me
of who I was and my purpose andwhat I was capable of.
So I left that lunch just kindof renewed with some sense of
hope of hey, I can do this, Ican have a life and no longer
wallow in misery.
(12:57):
And so a week later, born fromthat conversation, was Olivia
Nunn Communications.
I really still didn't jumpgung-ho into entrepreneurship.
My LLC was born but I reallydidn't know what I was doing
just quite yet.
Time kind of moves forward.
I start picking up clients justlittle bit here and there hey,
olivia, can you help me withthis little small project?
(13:19):
You know social media here, etcetera.
I pick up a major client who'sin the substance use space and
they were looking for acommunications expert, branding
expert, because they want togrow in the military space and
it was supposed to be a shortcontract.
That short contract turned intoa big contract.
I ended up making more moneywith them than my daytime job as
(13:41):
a defense contractor doingpublic affairs work in a skiff
which I hated, by the way.
So I kind of made the jump andsaid I could do this, working
from home on my own time, andhave time to do what I love,
which is non-profit work and oh,by the way, my boss at work is
not that cool.
Uh, this is a no-brainer.
(14:02):
So I jumped ship and went allin working for myself, and that
really was where I said I wasthe accidental entrepreneur,
where I went all in on myself.
I started doubling down onmyself and said I can do this,
and I had a great ride for alittle bit.
And then the economy came inand my company just went
(14:24):
flatline.
And so it's been the story ofI've done well and then I don't.
I do well and then I don't.
Story of I've done well andthen I don't.
I do well and then I don't.
And those are the lessons thatI'm learning as an entrepreneur
of all the little things ofbanking and what do you do with
your taxes or what you don't dowith your taxes, and I've
(14:44):
completely bootstrapped mycompany since day one.
Larry Zilliox (14:47):
Well, for our listeners too.
What the Colonel is describingas an LLC is Limited Liability
Corporation, and it's used bycontractors all over, so when a
company hires you for a contract, they're paying your company
instead of you directly a verycommon vehicle for consultants,
(15:10):
especially in the NorthernVirginia area, but that's what
we're talking about there withan LLC.
So what do you think is thenumber one barrier that keeps
female veterans from startingtheir own companies?
Olivia Nunn (15:24):
I would say access to funds.
You know, I've got some friendsthat work in banking and
they'll tell you that.
I mean there's statistics thattalk about that.
The fastest growing part ofentrepreneurship are women.
In fact, women veterans are thefastest growing right now
across the US, but they actuallyhave the least amount of access
(15:48):
to capital funds.
And I think part of it is thefollowing Part of it is the way
we are as women.
It's how we show up, it's how wethink about ourselves.
We tend to not apply for jobsif we don't think we check all
the boxes.
It's also how we doubtourselves, or we think that
(16:11):
we're not capable or confidentin terms of being able to do
something, whereas men is like,eh, 50, 60 percent, that's good
enough, I'm going to roll withit.
So I think part of it is that Ithink there's fear in having
all your ducks in a row and thengoing after it.
I think it's also exposure andhaving access to people that can
(16:34):
get you into the right placesat the right time.
And I know for me, I'm such avisual learner and so when
you're trying to build thisportfolio of things, that you
need to go after a grant or goin front of a board in order to
compete for funds and they'reasking you for this.
You know portfolio of thingsthat you need.
(16:55):
Sometimes it's you have no ideawhat they're asking for and
you're just kind of looking atdumbfoundedly, going wait, you
want a year's worth of XYZ andyou're like that sounds like
great to me.
You know how do you get thosethings together?
So I think it's a few of thosethings all mixed into one, as
you're trying to do those thingsat the same time run your
(17:17):
company and you're trying tomake money all at the same time
and then somewhere along the way, as a business owner, you're
going to hit this point whereyou need to hire somebody
because you are at that pointyou need to.
You're going to hit this pointwhere you need to hire somebody
because you are at that pointyou need to, but you're right at
that breaking point wherehiring somebody is going to
break you at the same time.
So it's like that dog chasingits own tail.
Larry Zilliox (17:38):
Yeah, it's a hard decision actually.
Plus, you're also relinquishingsome control and you know
starting a business is hard foreveryone.
I really think that mentorshipis huge for veterans, other
veterans who have been down thatpath, and for female veterans.
(17:58):
I just don't think that there'sthe same level of mentorship
available out there.
What would you say is the bestway for a female veteran to find
a mentor?
Olivia Nunn (18:11):
I completely agree with what you say in terms of
mentorship.
It's mentorship not just inbusiness.
I think it's mentorship in life.
It's finding somebody that youresonate with.
You've got to ask and then atthe same time it's making that
time with that person and thatperson making time with you.
And especially here in DC.
The word busy is part of ourvocabulary and I think the word
(18:35):
busy gets so stuck in our everysingle day vernacular that it
gets in the way of life,everything from our business to
how we show up in our familylife, to our kids, to our
community.
And I think that affects evenhow you approach mentorship,
whether you're a mentor or amentee.
(18:55):
And then I think there's a bitof ego too.
Larry Zilliox (18:58):
Right.
Olivia Nunn (18:59):
That maybe you might think that I don't need a
mentor.
So I think you've got to checkyour ego at the door and say you
know I need a mentor.
But I think the other got tocheck your ego at the door and
say you know I need a mentor.
But I think the other part,especially for women, it's the
uncomfortableness sometimes infinding or talking to a male
Because there's a lack ofrepresentation in women that are
(19:20):
out there, that are successful,that can potentially show the
ropes to another woman.
Larry Zilliox (19:26):
So I think it's important that female veterans
who are looking at trying tostart their own company.
I think what you just said isimportant in that you can't not
find a mentor just because youcan't find a female veteran
mentor.
So if you can find a mentorwho's a male veteran or a male
(19:49):
who's in the same business Imean exact same business can
walk you through just aboutanything, I think you actually
absolutely have to jump at that.
You can't say, well, I want afemale, so I'm just going to
pass that by as you network inyour community through business
associations, things like that,and while a female veteran
(20:10):
mentor might be good, but ifthey don't know anything about
your business, then that mightnot work out as well either.
And nobody says you can't havemore than one, so you could have
a guy help you on the businessstandpoint, but then have a
female veteran mentor throughlife who's walked that path
(20:30):
ahead of you.
I often think you know femaleveterans almost in every aspect,
are just underrepresented,whether it's healthcare, mental
health issues and in business aswell.
There is plenty of business outthere for veteran female-owned
companies, especially in thenorthern Virginia area, if you
(20:51):
can find somebody withcontracting experience and you
have skills that transferred tothe civilian community.
I mean, there's business outthere and I'm just afraid that
some of our female veteransaren't thinking through and
saying, okay, this is what I didand how does that translate to
the civilian community?
(21:11):
And if you can get in as acontractor for some of these
agencies, you'll make atremendous amount of money.
What do you think is the bestway for a female veteran to get
an understanding of how theirskills from the military
transfer to the civiliancommunity?
Olivia Nunn (21:28):
I'm a big advocate as a veteran to utilize the
resources that are out there.
There are a plethora ofnonprofits that we can access as
veterans for free.
Ivmf is a great one out ofSyracuse that has a lot of
resources that help you as aveteran to start your own
(21:48):
business.
Larry Zilliox (21:49):
Free training too .
Olivia Nunn (21:50):
Free training, right?
An example off the top of myhead, like if you wanted to get
your project management right.
They provide all the courseworkand the assistance to get you
through project management forfree.
The only thing you have to dois that you would pay for the
actual exam at the end, and it'snot a whole lot for the exam
but the coursework.
(22:10):
If you were to pay for thecoursework, that's a few
thousand dollars but you weregetting that for free.
That's just an example.
And they do the same if you aretrying to go through coursework
to understand how to become anentrepreneur.
That's IVMF.
There's another one based out ofUtah, that my good friend,
jason VanCamp, and you know hedoes.
(22:33):
You know there is a wait listfor that, but again, there's a
wait list because it is a greatcourse.
But if that's what you want topursue, you know, chase that and
there's more that's out there.
And then, if you're talkingabout mentorship, right, mill
mentor.
That's a free online mentorshipthat you can sign up for.
(22:53):
Peter Klein, it is a co-founderof that sign up, right, you
could.
There's plenty of mentors thatare on there that you could find
.
I happen to be one of thementors that are on there.
If you want to talk aboutcommunications or transition,
you mean, I'm just one of manymentors that are on there.
If you want to talk aboutcommunications or transition, I
mean, I'm just one of manymentors that are on there.
So utilize these resources thatare available to you as a
(23:16):
veteran, access them and takeadvantage of that and chase it
right.
It's the same as what we usedto say in Soldier for Life in
terms of your transition youhave to be an active member of
your transition to be successful.
You can't have the attitude ofI'm just going to sit here and
just let it come to me.
(23:37):
See, what happens.
Absolutely.
You cannot take it that way,right?
You have to get up and chase it.
And here's the other part andI've noticed this, and if anyone
happens to follow me on socialmedia, is that age, your gender
and where you come fromshouldn't stop you.
Chase your dreams and don't letfear stop you.
(23:57):
I've always wanted to fly andit's something I finally decided
to do and I had a great timedoing it.
I've always wondered what wouldit be like to do a bodybuilding
competition, and I finally didthat.
You know, I'm 47 years old andthe parts of me feel super old,
(24:19):
with all the injuries that Ihave, and then the other parts
of me is like I've got so manymore years to live, and so I
want to check off this list ofthings that I want to achieve or
do in my life.
You know, jumping out of aperfectly working airplane not
military style, right?
You know that's on my list too.
So if you have a thought orthis, I wonder can I do this?
(24:42):
Chase it.
Larry Zilliox (24:43):
Yeah, for sure.
There's no barriers.
There's only the barriers thatyou put up for yourself, really.
And well, can't thank youenough for coming out today and
talking to us about this is justgreat that there's so much out
there.
When you talk about resources,the hardest part is trying to
find them actually and know thatthey're out there.
(25:05):
Moa is another organizationthat will help Military Officers
Association of America.
So, you know, reach out,definitely reach out and find
them.
Join these veteran serviceorganizations in your community.
You know, join the AmericanLegion, join the VFW.
Yeah, they're full of old guys,but a lot of times they're full
(25:27):
of old guys who had companiesand ran companies and who are
happy to answer questions andhelp you out.
So, you know, think of all thedifferent ways that you could
find the help that you need andreach out.
Don't build barriers foryourself.
Olivia Nunn (25:43):
Absolutely.
I mean MOA.
You know, you mentioned them.
I used to podcast for MOA.
They're a great organizationand I don't want people to think
that.
Well, he said it's MilitaryOfficers Association.
That's a big, you know myth.
You don't have to be an officerto be part of that organization
.
They are a lobbyingorganization on behalf of the
military right.
They're the ones that go on toCapitol Hill to fight for our
(26:04):
benefits.
You know another one AmericanCorporate Company, acp right
Another great mentorshiporganization.
Oh, by the way, they're goingto help you get jobs Recruit
Military.
That's another greatorganization.
If you're on the job market,there's so many great
organizations.
And if you don't know where tostart, again you know, get
(26:30):
online, find somebody who's beenaround, who knows these
resources, and just hey, do yougot a minute?
Can you help me find anorganization that could
potentially point me in thedirection of XYZ?
Larry Zilliox (26:37):
And don't overlook state organizations
that there are agencies of likeeconomic development and they
have entire business plans sothat if you go to them and say I
want to open up a business thatsells honey, they very often
will have everything you need toopen that business in.
(26:58):
That state Says you got to getthis permit, you got to do this,
you got to file for that, andso all that is out there
franchises.
Sometimes it can be too much,but there's a tremendous amount
of resources out there that wereally don't want you to
overlook.
So, Colonel, thank you forsitting down with us and talking
today.
It's been wonderful.
Olivia Nunn (27:19):
No, thank you for the chance to sit down and have
this conversation and if anybodywants to connect with me, I am
online.
You can find me on Facebook,you can find me on Instagram and
on LinkedIn.
I believe that you should havesome social presence and I'm
happy to connect with anyone.
Larry Zilliox (27:33):
Yeah, we'll have the webpage linked in the show
notes so you can go there andreach out if you have any
questions.
So thank you so much and, forour listeners, we'll have
another episode next Mondaymorning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America Radio.
(27:54):
Thanks for listening.
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