Episode Transcript
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Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run.
Today we have our co-host, JohnWall, Welcome, John, thank you,
Larry.
Retired Navy.
He's joining us.
And our guest today is retiredArmy Colonel Douglas Moore.
And Colonel Moore has a prettyremarkable career in the Army
(00:23):
spanning 30 years.
Pretty remarkable career in theArmy spanning 30 years.
And I just I normally I leaveit up to the guests to talk
about their career and what theydid while they were in the
service, but I'm just going toread you a few things from his
bio so we don't miss anything.
So number one he did two toursin Vietnam as a combat Dustoff
(00:47):
helicopter pilot and we're goingto talk a little bit well,
actually we're going to talkquite a bit about what dust-off
is and the pilots who flew itand what it meant to the guys on
the ground in Vietnam.
But while he was there, in histwo tours he flew over 1,874
(01:08):
combat missions and evacuated2,782 patients.
He also piloted a helicopterthat recovered three American
POWs from the North Vietnamesein a pretty sensitive mission
along the Cambodian border.
In between his tours heorganized a unit in Japan that
(01:29):
was responsible for transportingmore than 63,000 casualties out
of the Vietnam the combattheater and back to the States
for treatment.
He commanded the 307th MedicalBattalion in the 82nd Airborne,
so I'm assuming he was forced tojump out of good airplanes and
(01:50):
he also commanded the 62ndMedical Group at Fort Lewis,
which is in Washington, and atthat time, during his time there
, he was the air missioncommander for a very large
rescue mission following theeruption of Mount St Helens.
Some of our listeners might betoo young to remember that, but
(02:10):
it was quite an event to see thehalf of that Mount St Helens
just disappear in an explosion.
Lot of people in the areahiking and camping that needed
to be rescued and a number ofjoint services stepped up and
affected a lot of rescues.
During his time there in theArmy, his 30 years he received a
(02:37):
Distinguished Service Cross,the Distinguished Service Medal,
the Distinguished Flying Cross,bronze Star and a Purple Heart,
and then, in February of 2004,he was introduced to the Dustoff
Hall of Fame.
So, colonel, we can't thank youenough for joining us.
Welcome to the podcast.
(02:58):
Thank you so much Happy to behere, Larry, so I wanted to
start by talking about when youdecided to join the Army, and
did you enter the Army with theidea you wanted to?
John Wall (03:10):
fly?
The answer to that is yes.
When I graduated from college,I took ROTC, like it was
mandatory, the first two yearsin college in those days, and
you could take the second twoyears and if you did you could
obtain a commission and I wascommissioned a second lieutenant
.
I always wanted to fly and Ihad an opportunity to go to
(03:33):
flight school, so I took it.
Larry Zilliox (03:35):
And was it in
flight school that you were
assigned to fly helicopters, ordid you get to pick the aircraft
that you wanted to?
John Wall (03:42):
fly.
I was first sent to fixed-wingschool because the Army was
looking at buying something thatlater on was called a Caribou
aircraft, a twin-engine airplane.
Because they knew in those daysif the Russians were to come
across the border there inGermany, they couldn't get
enough hospitals on thecontinent to take care of them.
So they planned to put thehospitals in England.
(04:05):
So they were looking at buyingthis twin-engine, fairly large
fixed-wing airplane to haulcasualties off the continent
over to England.
So I was sent to fixed-wingschool.
But this was 1964 when thebuildup really began in Vietnam.
So they said, hey God, we needsomebody to go to Vietnam.
(04:27):
So I went to a short transitioncourse to learn how to fly
helicopters and went to Vietnamin September of 64.
Larry Zilliox (04:35):
And when you were
on your way to Vietnam, did you
know you were going to be adust-off pilot?
John Wall (04:42):
Yes.
Larry Zilliox (04:43):
Okay, so that was
something you volunteered for
or were assigned.
John Wall (04:47):
No, I was assigned to
a branch in the Army called
Medical Service Corps and wewere the dust-off pilots or the
medevac pilots.
Larry Zilliox (04:56):
Okay.
So for our listeners, so theyunderstand what dust-off is is
that when you are in a combattheater and you're a casualty
wounded, there's a couple ofways that you get out.
You either walk out on your own.
You get out on your own, youcatch a ride on some sort of
aircraft.
Could be a C-130 that's cominginto a forward operating base.
(05:18):
It could be any helicopter, itcould be a helicopter that's
faring supplies or othersoldiers and then picks up
wounded and then its missionturns into a medevac mission at
that point when they get woundedon board.
Or it could be dust off, anddust off's sole mission is to be
(05:38):
on alert and be ready to go inand to pick up wounded in the
field.
That's their sole purpose.
They're not running ammunitionhere, they're not doing this and
that, and Dustoff continuestoday in conflicts.
It was active in Iraq andAfghanistan and there are a
(06:00):
whole association at DustoffPilots, and we're just so
thankful that you're here totell us about your amazing story
and being inducted into theDustoff kind of Hall of Fame.
What was that like in 2004?
John Wall (06:17):
Oh, I was very
appreciative of that.
You know a lot of good guyswere there and you're correct on
patients being moved.
But people have asked me manytimes what does the word
dust-off mean?
It came about because in thoseearly days in 1954, there were
(06:38):
no American combat units inVietnam.
It was just strictly advisoryelements little three and
four-man teams out all over thecountry and a half-dozen special
forces units along theCambodian and Laotian borders.
So and you formerly militaryguys will understand this the
military in its wisdom used tochange the call signs and radio
(07:00):
frequencies every month.
So these guys who are hundredsof miles out in the country
might not get the most recentfrequency or call sign.
So our commander went to thehigh ups there in Saigon and
said, hey, we're not going tohave somebody die because they
can't get the right frequency orthe right call sign.
(07:21):
So we were the first unit to beawarded a permanent call sign
and it's still being used, asyou suggested today, and the
frequencies may change but thecall sign has always been the
same for medevac.
Larry Zilliox (07:34):
Yeah, and part of
that, too, comes from if you've
ever been around a Huey inparticular.
Not only are they incrediblyloud, but they make a lot of
dust when they land and theytake off, and dust off kind of
came I think about by the factthat you know you really do have
(07:56):
to shield yourself when they'rearound and they're either
coming in or they're taking off.
Especially, you get to Vietnam,you're assigned, you get your
helicopter.
What's your first mission like?
John Wall (08:10):
My first mission that
I remember was a night mission.
My roommate at that time and Iwent out on it.
It was about 80 miles south ofSaigon.
Where we went, we had been toldthat a Navy unit had been
attacked where the BrownwaterNavy operated down in the Mekong
Delta area.
When we got there we found outthere were no Americans on the
(08:33):
ground.
The only American that had beenthere had gotten in a boat with
his Vietnamese counterpart andthey were about five miles away.
The little village had beendestroyed and the compound where
they were had been overrun.
And my roommate was a crazy guywho went on to win the Medal of
Honor during his second tour.
But he landed right alongsidethe compound and we started
(08:54):
taking tracer fire from twodifferent directions going right
past us, and I didn't know whatto do.
That was one of my firstmissions.
I looked over at Pat.
Pat Brady was his name and heused to chew tobacco.
He used to have a big chew oftobacco in his jaw.
Here all the time he's spittingout the window, not paying any
attention to the bullets goingby.
(09:15):
So I learned right then thatyou know you might as well just
sit there and relax becauseyou're going to let the bullets
go by you until they get all thewounded loaded, and that became
our mantra from then on.
Col. Moore (09:27):
Well, okay, well, so
first of all, thanks, colonel,
for being here, and you knowit's just amazing to sit beside
someone like yourself, who hadgone through a lot, and I bet
that took a lot of nerves, ofsteel to just sit there huh,
Sometimes it did yeah.
(09:47):
Yeah, so that's an incrediblestory there.
Do you have another missionthat really stuck out to you?
Because from reading you know,from Larry, reading your bio, I
mean 1,874 combat missions,2,782 patients and three POWs
you recovered.
That's significant, that'samazing.
(10:09):
We us me and Larry and thisorganization and, I assume, all
the Americans out there that'sjust very impressive and that's
very honorable and we reallyappreciate what you did.
So is there one thing, anotherone that might have stuck out to
you?
John Wall (10:22):
I can tell you about
when I was awarded the
Distinguished Service Cross,which was next to the Medal of
Honor.
We got a call about noontimeone day that a unit had a
wounded man.
2nd of the 12th InfantryBattalion was part of the 25th
Infantry Division that we weresupporting, and this is my
second tour.
So we flew out there and thecompany commander told us he
(10:46):
couldn't secure a landing zone,that they were under too heavy a
fire for us to come in.
So I said well, we'll orbit outhere about 10 miles away until
you can call us in.
So we orbited just for a littlebit and he came back on the air
and said hey, dustoff, my medictold me this guy's going to die
unless you can get him out.
We'll suppress as best we canif you'd be willing to come in.
(11:08):
I said we're on the way.
So we went in and landed andstarted taking hits right away
and we saw two Viet Cong jump upout of a foxhole or a spider
hole about 100 yards away andthey fired a rocket propeller
grenade at us and fortunately ithit a limb on a tree in front
(11:29):
of us and exploded and all itdid was just break out one
corner of our windshield.
But then at 7 o'clock thatnight we went back and they had
four wounded and we just got thehex out of us during that
mission to get them out.
And then another at midnightfor the same unit.
And then at four o'clock thenext morning we got a call back
(11:49):
and when we took off fromCoochee, where I was stationed
about 35 miles north of Saigon,we could see flares in the
distance and artillery exploding.
See flares in the distance andartillery exploding.
And so when we called, thebattalion commander of this unit
was flying in a command andcontrol helicopter over the
battlefield and he said both ofhis units, both of his companies
(12:10):
had consolidated but they wereabout to get overrun.
And he said we're firingartillery to the east and to the
south, so the only way you cancome in is come in from the west
and go back out to the west.
I said, okay, shut down theflares so I can land.
And at first he refused.
He said his units were underheavy attack and he wouldn't
(12:32):
shut the flares down.
So by that time I was a brashyoung major on my second tour.
So I said, hey, it won't do anygood for me to get shot down on
landing or on takeoff.
So shut the flares down and letme land and I'll call you when
I'm on the ground and you canstart the flares up again.
So he finally reluctantlyagreed and I went in.
I turned all the lights off whenthe helicopter went in and I
(12:53):
got down to the bottom I hit mylanding light and I saw this
little tiny clearing in thejungle with a road running along
one side of it and there werewounded scattered all along that
road.
So I landed kind of in themiddle of where the wounded were
and he started the flares upagain.
I told him we were on theground.
He started the flares up againand we started taking hits.
I could hear bullets hittingthe tail, boom back in the back
(13:17):
and then they were coming up theback of the engine compartment
behind me and we finally gotloaded.
We picked up eight wounded andI called him and said we're
loaded now.
How about shutting the flaresdown, let me take off?
And this time he refused.
He said my unit's under heavyattack so I won't shut the
flares down.
So we lifted up.
Just as I cleared the top of thetrees there were just sheets of
tracers coming up underneath usstriking the bottom of the
(13:39):
helicopter.
There were just sheets oftracers coming up underneath us
striking the bottom of thehelicopter and a round came up
through my left knee here andhit the collective lever and
regressated off and split myleft thumb open and that hurt
like heck.
Then I heard thisblood-curdling scream right
behind me and my medic said oneof our patients had been hit in
(14:03):
the back and it killed him.
Then another round came throughthe windshield down here on the
right corner where thewindshield bolts in the frame
and hit my flight helmet rightbetween my eyes and came out
behind my left ear back here.
And when it did it brought ahandful of metal and plexiglass
out from down there and wentprimarily into my left eye.
It's let my nose open here andchipped out of place up here on
my head full of metal andplexiglass out from down there
and went primarily into my lefteye.
It's let my nose open here andchipped out of place up here on
(14:24):
my head and placed back here inthe back of my head and I threw
the stick.
My head flew back and I hit theback of the seat and that hurt
too, but I threw the stick and Ijammed the right pedal all the
way to the floor and I pulledthe collective lever, which is
the thing that makes thehelicopter go up and down.
I jerked it all the way to thetop and we rolled over in a
right turn and I managed to lookback down and I saw the
(14:46):
instrument panel and I could seeour attitude indicator there.
We were in a downward path,headed for the ground, about 100
feet away.
So I centered the stick realquick and centered the pedals
and jerked in some power tostart climbing again and by that
time my co-pilot had gotten onthe controls and got us out of
there.
(15:07):
But for some reason I shut myleft eye and I could still see
the instrument panel clearly.
But when I switched and closedmy right eye, all I could see
was just a dull glow.
So I knew something hadhappened to me and my co-pilot
fortunately flew us back toCoochie, where I was in the
hospital for a few days whilethey picked all that metal and
(15:29):
plexiglass out of my eye.
Larry Zilliox (15:32):
And was that the
end of your tour there, or did
you keep flying?
John Wall (15:36):
I spent five days in
the hospital.
They kept me in a neurologyclinic because they thought that
I had been knocked unconsciousand if I had, then my flying
days would have been over.
But every day they would takeme over to another hospital that
had an ophthalmologist and hewould take an 80-gauge needle
and go in and pick all thosepieces out of my eye.
(15:57):
After five days they sent meback to my unit and the flight
surgeon told me I was groundedfor three weeks but a mission
came in to pick up someprisoners that were being
released by the North Vietnamese.
So I went back to flying twoweeks later.
Larry Zilliox (16:11):
And was that your
mission?
To pick up three POWs?
Yes, wow.
So for our listeners, I wantthem to understand when you were
talking about the commander onthe ground, whose forces were
being overrun or close to beingoverrun, the flares that you
were talking about were actuallythe flares that they were
setting off on the ground togive them visibility as to where
(16:35):
the enemy was coming towardsthem, because at nighttime the
jungle is pitch black.
You can't see three feet infront of you, and without those
flares they would be on top ofthe American GIs in an instant.
So that's what.
When the colonel's talkingabout the flares going up,
(16:56):
that's what they were for.
They weren't signaling wherethey were at.
Flares going up, that's whatthey were for.
They weren't signaling wherethey were at.
They were actually giving themvisibility to the enemy so they
could, you know, counter theattack.
John Wall (17:06):
Yeah, these were
being dropped from a C-130,
though An Air Force C-130 wasflying over and there were
parachute flares, they'd kickthem out and they would burn
forever coming down.
Larry Zilliox (17:16):
Yeah.
John Wall (17:16):
And he was on a
command-and-control helicopter
flying over the battlefield.
Larry Zilliox (17:20):
Yeah, coming down
, and he was on a
command-and-control helicopterflying over the battlefield.
John Wall (17:22):
Yeah, it does light
up the entire— oh the whole area
.
Larry Zilliox (17:24):
The whole area is
lit up for, you know, 10
minutes as these things floatdown.
John Wall (17:29):
Right.
Larry Zilliox (17:29):
Tell us about the
mission to pick up these three
POWs?
Why were they being released?
John Wall (17:35):
I got called over to
the Chief of Staff, the 25th
Infantry Division Chief ofStaff's office, like I said, two
weeks after I got back frombeing wounded and he said they'd
gotten a message from Paristhat the North Vietnamese
intended to release someprisoners of war on Christmas
Day 1968.
And they had demanded that amedevac ship pick them up, not
(18:01):
another aircraft but a medevacship.
So I told him I could fly themission.
He said you just got out of thehospital.
I said well, I can go, I'll getback on flying status in a
heartbeat.
So I ran to the flight surgeonand he put me back on flying
status and we went up onChristmas Day and nothing ever
(18:21):
happened.
We waited, and, waited, andwaited and when nighttime came
we were sent home.
Then a couple of days later,three days later, we found out
they were going to be releasedon the 1st of January of 1969.
So we went to a place calledTainan, about 40 miles north of
(18:41):
where I was at Coochie, andabout three o'clock in the
afternoon a State Department guycame out and said they're going
to lease them and here's thecoordinates for you to go to.
And I said you know how?
Will we know where to land andthey said we don't know, these
are just the coordinates given.
So we took off and flew acrossthe jungle tops for about 50
(19:04):
miles, headed into Cambodia, andas we were approaching the
Cambodian border we saw a NorthVietnamese flag flying in a
little tiny jungle clearing inthe jungle.
So I told the guys to back us.
I said that's probably it.
Let's land and see what happens.
So we landed in a littleclearing that was not much
bigger than your house here andthere was nobody else there
(19:26):
other than us and the flag.
And we sat there for probably 10minutes and we looked and up in
the jungle, eight NorthVietnamese soldiers, heavily
armed soldiers, come marchingout of the jungle and they
formed a semicircle around us,took their weapons off and held
them in front of their chest andjust glared at us from about 10
feet away.
(19:46):
And we sat there for probablyanother 20 minutes and we saw
some movement up in the junglethere and I saw what appeared to
be three Americans in lightercolored uniforms.
Now, one of them was a blackguy and he was stumbling along
as if he could barely walk.
So I told the crew chief whowas sitting in the back, I said
jump out, rob, and see whatthese guys, these soldiers, do,
(20:10):
and if they don't do anything,go help that guy.
So he jumped out and theydidn't do anything.
So he went charging up throughthe jungle, got this guy's arm
over his shoulder and broughthim back to the helicopter.
And when they got there, thecommander of this North
Vietnamese unit stoppedeverybody about 15 yards away
and he began reading all kindsof proclamations.
And then we saw another groupof probably 20, what appeared to
(20:35):
be civilians coming out of thesame jungle.
And when they finally got there, most of them had cameras or
video devices of some sort.
So the North Vietnamesecommander of this unit made them
load our POWs, one at a time,and they took pictures of them
as they got on board.
And when we finally had them onboard we flew them to Long Bend
(20:58):
, about 80 miles away, and wewere excised.
Nobody would talk to us aboutthe mission.
We were told it was top secret,don't say anything to anybody
about it.
And I didn't even know whathappened until 15 years later
when I went to the War Collegeand I managed to get all the
classified documents from Parisand from the CIA and other
agencies who had been involvedin those negotiations but they
(21:21):
were released, for they werebeing released for propaganda
purposes, sure, trying to affectthe anti-war group back here in
the United States at the time,which was very active, as you
remember.
Larry Zilliox (21:32):
Yeah, talk about
your final mission in vietnam,
the last one you did beforebefore you.
It was turned your turn torotate out.
You were short, I'm sure, andyou're thinking, you know, I
only got one or two more to go.
Okay, you're counting the daysand counting the bullets, and so
(21:53):
what was that like?
John Wall (21:54):
I remember that one
very well.
One of my young war officersand I were flying together and
just about dark this humongousrainstorm started out on the
Cambodian border, moving towardsus, and about 8.30 to 9 o'clock
the bottom of the sky fell outand the rain began crashing down
.
So we got a call that therewere eight wounded about 40
(22:18):
miles north of us.
So we took off and got to about500 feet with all that wood
could get to get out there, andI called this guy on the ground
and I asked him our typicalquestion was what's your
situation and what direction doyou want us to come in from?
And he said we have negativecontact at this time.
He said we've got into somebooby traps and he said I've had
(22:41):
eight wounded come in from thewest.
And he said unfortunately Ican't find a parking, I mean a
landing place for you.
He said you'll have to findsome place to land and then
we'll work our way out to youraircraft.
So we flew over the place anddidn't see his light and he
called me and said hey, dustoff,you just went past us, we think
(23:02):
, but we didn't see you.
So I said okay, let me circleback around.
And we finally found it.
He had a little red lensflashlight he was showing and we
went in to land and when Iturned on my landing line I saw
a clearing and a little smallrice paddy about 200 yards away.
And we landed in that ricepaddy and I told him we were on
(23:23):
the ground, didn't know where hewas, all we could see there was
heavy jungle all around us andwe didn't know whether we'd
landed in the middle of an enemyunit night position or what.
And we sat there for probably 15minutes or so and finally my
crew chief said hey, I see somemovement coming our way from the
east and they brought out fourguys, five guys.
(23:44):
And the guy on the groundcalled me and said hey, dostov.
He said we've got some woundedover on the other side of this
woods before we're at.
And he said can you come overthere and pick them up?
He said I can't move out of myarea right now and I said okay.
He said I apologize, but hesaid I think there's a clearing
(24:04):
to my southeast, if you can findit.
And I said, okay, I'll try that.
And he said oh, by the way, Ican't move because I think I
stepped on a booby trap.
He said it didn't go off, but Ican feel the wire under my feet
and I said stay where you're at.
So we went over and we foundanother tiny clearing where we
(24:26):
got in and sat there for about15 minutes before they could
make way to the aircraft, withanother six patients.
And I called him and I said doyou want us to wait?
And he said, dustoff, I'd sureappreciate it.
And we sat there, rain pouringdown, and we fully expected to
see if he moved his foot, thatwe'd see an explosion, a flash
(24:49):
of light and a booby trapexplode.
But after waiting what seemedlike forever, he finally said
hey, dustoff, I'm okay.
Thanks a lot for your help andGod bless you.
So that was my last mission ofsort.
Col. Moore (25:03):
That's good that it
ended that way.
I'm glad to hear a good storyout of that, because we know
from all the stories andaccounts it's not always that
way.
So thanks for sharing that.
I appreciate that Out of your30 years of service to our great
country here.
What would you like ourlisteners to know that's out
(25:24):
there, just in general?
And two, if someone wasthinking a young generation was
thinking about being ahelicopter pilot, what would be
your advice to them?
John Wall (25:34):
Okay generation was
thinking about being a
helicopter pilot.
What would be your advice tothem?
Okay, I spent 30 years, onemonth and one day, in the
military, and I came in becausethere were no jobs available
when I was a young guy, but Iloved it.
If anybody can put up the movesthat occur all the time and I
don't know how many times wemoved every two years, I guess
during those 30 years but Ienjoyed every move that I made
(25:57):
and the opportunities for people.
We even now have women orfemale helicopter pilots, a
general officer and I helped thefirst lady get into Army flight
school.
You know, 50 years ago now, Iguess, but now we've got general
officer, female pilots, yes,and it's a great career.
(26:18):
You know, if you want to dolike you did, john, something
for your country, I mean, wherecould you find a better job than
that?
All those patients I picked up,I'm convinced that some of them
went on living or had limbssaved or eyes saved, because my
crew and I could get him in andget him to medical care fairly
quickly.
So if there was any such thingas having a good job in combat,
(26:42):
I had one.
Larry Zilliox (26:43):
Yeah, indeed,
there's very few jobs that make
that much of a difference and animpact on so many people.
Because you think aboutsomebody that you save, they go
on to have a family Right andthey go on to have grandkids.
John Wall (26:59):
Yes.
Larry Zilliox (27:00):
And those
grandkids might find the cure
for cancer.
You're right, you just don'tknow, and so you have that
ripple effect.
When you talk about the numberof patients over 20, what is it?
4,700?
John Wall (27:16):
Yeah, 11,000 total.
I flew yeah.
Larry Zilliox (27:21):
Yeah.
So that's an incredible way tomake a difference and you know
we really can't thank you enoughfor sitting down with us here
and telling us all about it.
And one thing I do want to tellour listeners about is I want
you all to go to Amazon and geta copy of the Colonel's book.
(27:42):
It's a bullet through thehelmet a Vietnam dust-off
pilot's memoir.
I just ordered my copy andit'll be here on Wednesday and
I'm taking it to the beach onSaturday, so I can't wait to get
it and to read it.
And, um, listen, thank you somuch for sitting down with us
and telling us all about yourcareer, which was an amazing
(28:05):
career, and about dust off andthe unbelievably heroic pilots
who flew these dust-off missionsin Vietnam and saved so many
lives because they were able toget soldiers to treatment
quickly and it just made such ahuge difference.
(28:28):
So, colonel, thank you so muchfor joining us.
John Wall (28:31):
My pleasure and thank
you, and I get nothing from the
book.
You mentioned all the proceedsand that goes to a Huey Museum
that's up in Peru, indiana.
So if you're ever up in PeruIndiana sometime, stop by and
take a look at the museum that'sthere.
Larry Zilliox (28:46):
Wow, austin
didn't know about that, oh, okay
.
Well, I don't know when I'll bein Indiana again, but that's
awesome.
Well, listeners, if you're inIndiana or Illinois and you want
to go, really take a look atsome real American history.
(29:08):
These Hueys were the backboneof the troops in Vietnam.
They ferried soldiers out tothe field, they brought supplies
, they rescued wounded.
They, you know, today it's theBlackhawks and but back then it
(29:30):
was the Hueys and it's uh, uh,having flown in them, uh, it's
a't hear anything, but reallythey're, they're amazing and it
was just so great having you,colonel.
Thank you so much.
John Wall (29:44):
Thank you, sir.
Larry Zilliox (29:45):
Yeah, an honor,
yeah, real honor For our
listeners.
We'll have another episode nextMonday morning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're also on YouTube andWreaths Across America Radio.
So thanks for listening.