What happens when those sworn to protect our nation become victims of its negligence? This episode features a riveting conversation with Army Major Amanda Feindt, who reflects on her military career and the devastating Red Hill fuel storage leak her family endured in Hawaii. Major Feindt takes us from her post-9/11 inspiration to join the Army, through her various leadership roles, and ultimately to the distressing situation in Hawaii, where a hidden environmental disaster wreaked havoc on military families' health.
We expose the alarming health crisis that unfolded due to contaminated water, revealing the severe illnesses and dismissed warnings that plagued families stationed at the base. The narrative uncovers the unsettling reality of a fuel leak that poisoned the water supply, resulting in fatigue, anxiety, gastrointestinal issues, and skin rashes. Major Feindt shares her emotional journey as she realized the extent of the contamination, shedding light on the significant impact on her family and the broader military community.
The episode critically examines the lack of transparency and accountability in military crises, drawing stark comparisons to the infamous Camp Lejeune incident. We delve into the retaliatory actions faced by Major Feindt as she fought for clean water and better conditions, the institutional cover-ups, and the ongoing legal and activist efforts to shut down the Red Hill facility. Through compelling personal stories and a call for public awareness, we emphasize the importance of collective action to ensure such environmental and health crises do not recur. Join us for an eye-opening discussion on this critical issue affecting our service members and their families.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services,
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, She was stationed in
Hawaii, and she and her familywere part of the Red Hill fuel
storage leak incident.
this week we are joined by ArmyMajor Amanda Feint.
She is here to talk about herstory.
I like to call it acatastrophe.
(00:24):
This happened in 2021.
I remember reading about Amandaand her family in 2022 in Task
and Purpose, and so I'm verythankful that she's here today
to tell us about what happenedto her family and hundreds of
(00:45):
other families like hers, whenthis unfortunate fuel spill
happened in Hawaii and I thinkour listeners are all very
familiar with.
If you turn on the TV, you'refamiliar with the Marine Corps
water incident, but this issomething that unfortunately,
just hasn't got as muchpublicity as that, and we're
(01:08):
here to fix that.
So, major welcome to thepodcast.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:11):
Thank you so much, larry, for having me, and
I feel very blessed to be here.
Larry Zilliox (01:15):
Let's start with just a brief overview of why you
joined the Army, what yourcareer was like up until you
received your assignment to goto Hawaii, and then we'll get
into that and talk a little bitabout that.
But when did you join?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:33):
Well, let me back up before I tell you when
I joined.
So 9-11 happened my senior yearof high school.
Larry Zilliox (01:39):
Okay.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:39):
And I don't come from, you know, my folks
didn't serve in the military,but my grandparents did and it's
been a multigenerational thing,and so we're a huge patriotic
family, big Army family.
So when I went to college, Iwent to school on a truck
scholarship.
You know, there was a boothsitting outside of my college,
just out in the quad, and one ofthem was for ROTC and I was
(02:00):
there, you know, running, andthe Ranger Challenge team was
out there and they needed a girlto compete, you know, to be
competitive on the RangerChallenge team.
And so, I don't know, I just Ifelt, after 9-11 happened, I
felt like it was my time toserve, but I didn't really know
what that looked like and I knewthat I was already going to
school on a scholarship.
And so ROTC provided me theopportunity to continue to be
(02:24):
athletic and to continue to be aleader and learn a little bit
more about the Army.
And you know, never in amillion years did I think that
I'd be here still 20 years later.
I always said I'd serve in themilitary until they were done
with me or I was done with it.
I've loved it.
So, yeah, in college I ended uptrying ROTC out, I ran and did
(02:44):
ROTC, commissioned in 2000,excuse me, 2006.
Wow, I'm dating myself 2006.
And I was a?
Um, an air defense officer.
I loved it.
I uh, you know, I got to travelto so many wonderful new places
.
I got to experience so manydifferent cultures and be around
like a diverse group of people,and those things are things
(03:05):
that you know from my hometown.
I just wasn't used to and thissmall town you grew up in.
I grew up in Hampton, virginia.
Oh, not too small, but it'syeah, medium size will cost Sure
Yep.
And now?
Well then, we moved toSmithfield, virginia.
But but now?
Larry Zilliox (03:20):
Hampton, yeah, huge Navy presence.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (03:22):
Hampton huge Navy presence there is, there's
an Air Force base, there's aNavy and there is Army.
Larry Zilliox (03:27):
Very little Army compared to everybody else.
Right Big Navy.
I'm surprised the Navy didn'tscoop you up.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (03:34):
No, Like I said, we were.
Everyone in my family has beenin the Army and so I just I
don't know if I tried to.
If I would have tried to go tothe Navy, I'm sure someone would
have reeled me in, yeah, lockedmy heels up, but yeah, I just I
have loved, loved, loved beingin the military.
I've, you know, I commissionedas a second lieutenant, made my
(03:57):
way through the ranks and haveserved in various leadership
positions, from being a platoonleader Then I did a branch
transfer to the Adjutant GeneralCorps, where I do predominantly
human resources.
But I was as soon as I did thatbranch transfer I went to Fort
Bragg and I served in the 82nddeployed with them.
When I got back I had the uniqueexperience to command as a
headquarters commander for the82nd Cab, a combat aviation
(04:20):
brigade, which was such a reallyawesome experience.
And from there I was recruitedto be an ROTC instructor here in
Virginia at George MasonUniversity.
I did that for three years andso that was just such a
rejuvenating and amazing sort ofprofessional knee and it was
after a deployment and so for meit was just really rejuvenating
(04:40):
.
It really had come full circle,because I did ROTC in college
and it was the time of my lifethat I needed, after a
deployment, to, you know, bearound these cadets who were
super motivated and again camefull circle.
You know they were inspired byme, but I was certainly inspired
by them, just their motivationand how passionate they were to
serve in a time when conflictwas still happening, downrange
(05:08):
range and yeah.
So from there I went and workedas a brigade S1, so at the
brigade level and then as a G1in the space community when
space was just becoming well,now we've got a whole new branch
of service space but I workedfor Space and Missile Defense
Command and then and during thattime I got the unique
opportunity to either go toGermany or go to Hawaii, and I
had never traveled to Hawaii forleisure.
(05:29):
It's something that I'd alwayskind of held off on doing
because, you know, I thoughtthis would be the ultimate
location, especially to retireat, and so and that's not really
a tough call.
Larry Zilliox (05:40):
No, germany is nice.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (05:41):
Well, it is yeah To go, but Hawaii, yeah,
yeah, Well it is yeah, hawaii,yeah, yeah.
Well, I'll let you in on alittle secret Like this is kind
of silly, but when I got married, my last name became Feint, and
it is German and if you look itup it translates to enemy, and
I just didn't think that wecould be well-received in
Germany with a last name likethat.
Oh, my goodness.
So, as if you know, choosingHawaii or Germany was a really
(06:06):
tough decision.
Maybe that's still the deal, Idon't know.
Went to Hawaii Again just atthat point.
I think I'd been in the servicefor about 16 years and we were
super motivated and superexcited to be there.
We were living the dream, whichreally were.
We had lived off base initiallyand about a year or so after us
being there Hawaii is extremelyexpensive we had been on the
(06:27):
housing waiting list for quitesome time we got offered this
amazing house on historic FortIsland and I don't know, larry,
I think we discussed this, buthave you been to Hawaii?
Yeah, so we got offered thisamazing historic home that had
survived the attack on PearlHarbor, on Fort Island, and we
said we didn't think twice.
We said, heck, yes.
Larry Zilliox (06:45):
Yeah, now that's where you billeted.
That's the house they gave you.
Did you work on Ford Island, orwhere were you working at the
time?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (06:55):
So I worked for Special Operations Command
Pacific, and we wereheadquartered at Camp Smith, so
it's a Marine Corps base thatshares a building with
Indo-Pacific Command, which isthe largest combatant command in
the military.
Larry Zilliox (07:06):
Yeah, okay so, and two children, and they went
to the Ford Island DaycareCenter.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (07:13):
They did, yeah, and quickly, about my kids
.
So Patrick and I are, we'reolder parents, you know, in our
40s now.
Both of us and I reallystruggled to get pregnant when I
got back from Afghanistan.
In fact we couldn't and I sayall that to say, not to proclaim
to be a parent who loves mychildren more than anyone else,
but we fought really hard tohave our kids, both through
infertility treatments, and welost a baby, unfortunately, in
(07:35):
between, and so we fought reallyhard to have kids and we
brought two perfect, wonderful,healthy children to Hawaii, by
the grace of God, perfect,wonderful, healthy children to
Hawaii, by the grace of God.
And you know, I've oftenwondered if my deployment, my
toxic exposure downrange, ismuch like many women who go
downrange and they struggle toget pregnant.
Infertility is obviously a bigissue among women in the
military, and so I've oftenwondered if my deployment had
(07:57):
anything to do with myinfertility, because both my
husband and I we both hadunexplained infertility To sort
of get past that moment and thatchapter in her life and to
bring healthy kids to Hawaii inparadise, and, you know, fulfill
our dream of raising our kidsby the ocean, which is, you know
, patrick and I both did thatgrowing up.
We felt really blessed and toI'm sorry for getting emotional,
(08:20):
but to you know to be there andto have them when you live on
base and when you have yourchildren at an on-base daycare
facility, there's almost like anextra sense of security, if you
will.
There's another layer of thatwhere you feel like not only
physically they're protected,right being on a secure base,
but also you're surrounded byyour tribe Exactly your people,
(08:43):
your family, yeah, your tribe,exactly your people, your family
, those who become your familywhen your actual family can't be
there for you.
And especially in Hawaii, whenyou're so far away from everyone
the military, the folks whocare for your children.
There's just an extra layer oftrust there and I think that's
why and we'll get into it but Ithink that's why the sense of
betrayal, the moral injury of itall it cuts so deep for us,
(09:05):
because there was a lot of trust.
Larry Zilliox (09:08):
Sure?
Well, there always is whenyou're in the military, because
you follow orders and you justassume that the people in
command above you yes, Iunderstand they have to give you
orders, but they're looking outfor you and that's the way it
should be.
And officers should always belooking out for NCOs and
enlisted.
(09:28):
They're in their care.
It's a huge responsibility.
On Hawaii in 2020, it just allfell apart, and it became pretty
obvious to me in reading allabout this catastrophe.
There were people in the chainof command that just weren't
taking care of the troops andthose under them that they were
(09:52):
responsible for.
So take us back to 2020.
And not only you, but a largenumber of people on the
installation begin to reportthat there's a problem with the
water.
It's got a sheen to it, it'sgot a smell to it, it tastes
terrible, it's not right.
(10:13):
And you and others bring it tothe attention of command, and
what you get back is justamazing.
No, it's okay, it's all right,we're drinking it, so don't
worry.
No, it's okay, it's all right,we're drinking it, so don't
worry.
Just go about your day.
And then people start to getsick, and then your family
starts to get sick.
So what happens then?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (10:36):
Well, I want to circle back one more time,
or go back a little bit furtherthan November of 2021.
So we got offered that house inApril of 2021.
We had to move ourselves.
So we slowly kind of moved in.
So we were kind of in thathouse at the beginning of May.
One thing we didn't know is thatthere was a massive fuel leak
that actually caused thisNovember spill to happen.
(10:56):
20,000 gallons of fuel leakedon May 5th, I believe, of 2021.
And guess what?
They didn't tell us about it.
None of us knew about it.
And you know, had we known?
I didn't even know what RedHill was, to be completely
honest.
Sure, you know, typically whenyou travel to other countries,
you get a country brief.
You know sort of what you'rewalking in about, the lay of the
land and the people and theassets that we have there and
(11:18):
all of that.
I had no idea what Red Hill wasbefore I came to Hawaii, much
less before I moved into on-basehousing that was on the Navy's
drinking water system that hadbeen compromised.
If you go back and look at thehistory had been compromised by
this asset before for decades.
I had no idea, so I would havenever made the conscious
decision to move my family intothis home.
(11:39):
Had I known, but there was aspill.
Larry Zilliox (11:41):
There's no reason for you to know, or anybody.
It's not part of your job,right?
And it's got to be one of theleast interesting parts of the
installation, right?
So, yes, I can completelyunderstand why people would just
not be at all informed about itor care about it one bit.
The other thing that I think isimportant for people to
(12:04):
understand is the age of thesystem.
This is an installation that'sbeen around since World War II
and this is an ongoing problemthat, had you been aware of, you
wouldn't have moved on base.
It would have been better tospend the extra money and stay
off base, where everything wassafe, absolutely yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (12:23):
So this still happened in May.
We had no idea.
But you know I told you beforewe had been living in Hawaii for
about a year in the middle ofCOVID and never had COVID.
We were a perfectly healthyfamily for that first year After
May.
You could go back and don'ttake my word for it.
You know you could go back andlook at my medical records.
We just became really sick.
(12:44):
My son at the time when wemoved in, you know he was 13
months old.
He took his first steps in thathome in May.
He was a perfectly healthychild.
He started developing a coughalmost immediately.
We were, you know, just gettingsick all the time.
We should buy stock in COVIDtests.
You know like how many we took.
We never had COVID and you knowjust fatigue, how many we took.
We never had COVID and you knowjust, fatigue, anxiety started
(13:05):
to set in, couldn't sleep,stomach issues.
I didn't even know whatvestibular dysfunction were, but
we were having, like vertigo,headaches, particularly with my
husband, a lot of GI issues, ifI didn't say that, skin issues.
You know I was.
We were living on base, my kidswere going to school or daycare
on base and I was, you know,working on the base and during
my lunch breaks I would go and Iwas, you know, a swimmer and I
(13:27):
ran track, but I would spend mylunch break swimming at the Camp
Smith outdoor pool and I wasstarting to have skin issues
Again.
We just never put two and twotogether.
My son started almostimmediately developing this rash
.
This is all before the massiveNovember spill that made us all
like super sick.
There was no denying it.
But, this is all.
This is all.
After we moved into the house,and after that May spill is when
(13:50):
we started getting sick, my sonstarted developing this rash
that was from his waist down.
Now, saying this out loud toyou now, for everything we've
lived with, you know I live witha lot of mom guilt about this.
But again, like you had said,why would you like, why would
you think about it, right?
So we kept taking him to hispediatrician and we'd get all
these topical things for hisrashes.
(14:11):
You know we were treated foreverything from diaper rash to
eczema.
You know, none of us had everhad eczema before.
We're living in Hawaii, it's notlike it's a dry climate or
anything, but you know we triedeverything and we were diligent
about getting our kids to thedoctor.
So when things weren't working,I kind of took things in my own
hands as a mother and I said myson is just like you know, he's
really struggling.
And I went and I bought himsome of you know baby bath soak
(14:34):
and I just kept soaking him inthe water and you know you've
met my son like he's just assweet as he can be, and I
realized now that I was makingit worse.
You know it wasn't eczema.
My son was being burned by thewater and the reason I know that
is because the ration covershis whole body.
Larry Zilliox (14:50):
Right only when he was sitting in it.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (14:52):
Yeah, and you're not at his age.
He's not taking a shower yet.
I'm submerging him in thebathtub.
You know he's just learning towalk, and so anyways, fast
forward.
Larry Zilliox (15:00):
We were getting sick all through the summer,
november happened and in theoryis that a slow leak is
developing.
That turned into a gusher wheneverybody got really sick.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (15:17):
That is the belief that they tried to clean
up the spill in May and thatthey didn't get to all of it and
some of it compromised thedrinking water system then and
then the November spill.
What happened specifically withthat is that there was a cart
that actually hit a sinking pipeit was an AFFF, a firefighting
system that a cart hitunderground and that pipe was
hanging and it was not supposedto be anything in there and
(15:39):
turns out it was all of thatfuel that they couldn't account
for and water that they ended uphitting and all of that leaked
for over 30 hours before for andwater that they end up hitting
it and all of that leaked forover 30 hours before they were
able to get a hold of it.
And that still happened onNovember 20th.
You know my folks who were alsohere at the retreat with us.
They came to visit.
They're from Virginia.
They came to visit andimmediately my daughter's
(16:00):
birthday is on the 26th.
I remember 26th of November, andI remember you know they were
there trying to celebrate mydaughter's birthday too and my
mom was just deathly ill, likeshe couldn't stay out the toilet
, she coming out both ends, youknow.
I think my mom lost about 12pounds because she was so sick.
My dad got sick.
People were thousands of peoplein that drinking water system
were cooking their Thanksgivingmeal, you know, in contaminated
(16:22):
water meal.
You know, in contaminated water.
Thousands of people over thecourse of that next, you know,
two or three weeks, ended up atTripler, at Tripler Army Medical
Center, the main hospital there, just as sick as could be and
it didn't spare anyone on thedrinking water system.
So there are several main basesthere.
There is, you know, the bigjoint base which is Pearl Harbor
(16:42):
, hickam, which is an Air Forceand Navy base.
But, like I said, I was at CampSmith, you know the big joint
base which is Pearl Harbor,Hickam, which is an Air Force
and Navy base.
But, like I said, I was at CampSmith, you know, army girl
living on a Navy base, workingon a Marine Corps base, you know
.
So the Marine Corps base wasimpacted.
There were several bases thatwere impacted but there were,
you know, over.
You know, I think it's like 25or so housing neighborhoods both
(17:02):
on and off base that were partof the Navy's drinking water
system and so the way gravityand the system sort of flowed,
certain neighborhoods wereimpacted.
First we were on the west sideof that system, so we actually
didn't end up in the hospitaluntil December 11th.
Patrick and Tripp did, and thenmy daughter Palmer and I ended
(17:25):
up on December 13th, and then, Imean, we were, we were so sick,
and then on the 13th we endedup evacuated from our home.
For three months Our house was,you know, we couldn't live in
it.
We were shuffled between sevendifferent hotels.
Our lives have never been thesame since at this point, you
know, it's been over two yearsor so and we have gone to over
(17:46):
500 medical appointments.
The kids have been put undernine times for upper and lower
GI scopes, you know, permanentrespiratory issues, so bronchial
scrope, bronchial lavage.
My husband's had three GIsurgeries.
My career I never thought I'dend my career this way but it's
ending, you know, in a med board.
I'm in the med board processnow and I am I'm still on active
(18:06):
duty, but I have been taken outof my day job and I've been put
in the soldier recovery unit,which used to be the old wounded
warrior battalion.
I am my job status, what's onmy what's on my record?
Right now my job title ispatient, and so that is.
My job is to seek medical care.
Larry Zilliox (18:21):
And when we're talking about fuel, are we
talking about JP4?
Jp5.
Jp5.
Okay, so Navy fuel for ships.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (18:31):
Correct.
Yeah, I think that's importantto note.
So this was a Navy asset.
Yeah.
And with Camp Lejeune it was JP8.
And they had, you know, theissue with the laundromat, but
they also had fuel that wasdiscovered years later.
And you did mention CampLejeune at the start of this
podcast and you know CampLejeune was happening when I was
a small child and you know, tomy own ignorance, I was not
(18:52):
familiar with Camp Lejeune untilour water crisis happened.
You know it's interestingtiming right.
This is one of those historyhas repeated itself situations.
I've been a very outspokenadvocate, obviously, about this
water crisis and because of thatI have been introduced and
folks have reached out to mefrom other water crises.
The USS Nimitz had an issue.
(19:14):
The USS Boxer, you know, beforeus, had an issue with fuel
leaking into their water systemand certainly Camp Lejeune.
And, looking at the documents, Ivisited with a lot of those.
I mean I took a trip out to CampLejeune and was given a tour of
the base and the housing andwent to a Camp Lejeune event and
met a lot of those advocatesand I've reviewed a lot of their
documents, the things that camefrom the Navy and the Marine
(19:36):
Corps during their crisis andover the years and it is like
it's like a mirror image, theverbiage, the medical
gaslighting, the downplaying thesignificance of what happened
is exactly what has happened atRed Hill and it's so
disheartening to me but, as youcan imagine, it's really
disheartening for those folkswho have been fighting for their
(19:57):
families for over 30 years, forthe folks who have gone to
Congress so many times and whohave tried to fight for
accountability and justice, whohave buried their children.
God rest their souls.
You can only imagine how upsetthey are, that the time and
effort that they have spent toprevent something like this from
ever happening again, to seethis happen at Red Hill.
They've been extremely upset.
(20:18):
They've also been so wonderfulto our community and have opened
their arms to us and have beena huge, huge support to us, and
we're really grateful for that.
Larry Zilliox (20:27):
As you mentioned, the various housing areas on
the base and off the base thatwere affected.
It was the off the base housingthat involved the Hawaii
Department of EnvironmentalServices and they came out in
November and said no drinking,don't drink this.
(20:50):
But yet the Navy was saying no,it's okay, and it's just a
complete opposite of what theDepartment of Environmental
Services for the state wassaying, which I find
extraordinary.
I would think that at somepoint they've got to say, oh, I
guess the gig is up, we need tostand up and own this.
(21:11):
But apparently that wasn't thepoint in time where they
cowboyed up and tookresponsibility.
Can you recall a point in timeor something that pushed them to
finally say yes, we have aproblem.
And was it just the overload?
The patient overload a tripler,or what do you recall?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (21:33):
I mean, you mentioned it and I said I'll get
back to that, but I didn't.
You're exactly right.
The Hawaii Department of Health, you know the military had an
obligation to report after the2014 leak.
You know, before that the Navykind of policed themselves and
they maintained themselves andthey didn't really have an
obligation to report to folksoutside the military.
(21:54):
But the White Department ofHealth and the EPA had been very
involved since the 2014 spillmany, many years ago.
And they did.
If you go back and look atrecords, the Navy did report the
May 2021 spill to the WhiteDepartment of Health.
The Navy did report theNovember 20, 2021 spill to the
Department of Health andimmediately people after the
(22:17):
November 20 spill were, you know, smelling.
Their houses smell like a gasstation.
Like you mentioned, there was asheen, visible sheen on the
water.
You know it was hard to breathein folks' homes.
Not only were the Navy the Navygetting these calls, the White
Department of Health was gettingthese calls.
Sure, and I think it'simportant to mention that there
are civilians who live in thesehouses.
(22:39):
So the folks who were impactedwere predominantly military
families.
But what happened is, you know,the military came in by force
decades ago and secured a lot ofthe land and over the years
they've given some of that landback.
However, the utilities havestill been supplied by the Navy.
So there's one in particularout at Iroquois Point, kapalina
Beach Homes.
Still.
(23:00):
There are some militaryfamilies that live there, but
that piece of property, if youwill, has been given back to the
people of Hawaii and it ismanaged by, you know, civilians.
However, they still get theirdrinking water from the Navy and
you know they were nevernotified at the beginning.
They had no idea.
I had no idea that we were inthe Navy drinking water system.
(23:20):
The emails that we were gettingfrom the base were saying you
know, joint Base, pearl Harbor,hickam and, like a few other
neighborhoods, fort Island wasnot mentioned.
Camp Smith at the time wasn'tmentioned.
That list continued to growfrom the Navy, but the initial
comments from them or theinitial warning never said hey,
these are all the housingneighborhoods, these are all the
(23:41):
neighborhoods that are on thedrinking water system and you
should be vigilant with yourwater because this fuel has
impacted the sole clean wateraquifer and you all are on this
drinking water system.
So be on alert, be vigilant.
We were never given theopportunity.
And then, even after it happenedand folks from certain
neighborhoods started to report,the Navy still didn't say that.
(24:05):
And you mentioned the HawaiiDepartment of Health did issue a
warning for all drinking watersystem users, but not everyone
knew where their water wascoming from.
Because if you're living offbase, you don't think, no,
you're.
You know, if you're out inKapalina living in a civilian,
you're living amongst civiliansand you have a civilian landlord
(24:26):
like you, don't think twiceabout that.
Yes, it used to be old Navyhousing, but that's just not
something you think of.
So the point I'm trying to makewith this long answer that I'm
giving you is that the HawaiiDepartment of Health did issue
an advisory, but you know whodidn't tell us about that is the
Navy.
Everything that the Navy wassaying was being pushed through
email, they were having thesetown halls and everything was.
(24:47):
You know, my staff and I arestill drinking the water, the
water's safe, but they neversaid and oh, by the way, the
Hawaii Department of Health hasissued an advisory for all
drinking water system users andyour neighborhood is on that
drinking water system, so wejust had no idea, mm-hmm when
they said that they were stilldrinking the water and it was
safe.
Larry Zilliox (25:07):
Did you believe?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (25:08):
Absolutely.
I mean I told you before, youknow I've been a commander right
and so you are, when you wereput in those positions of
authority and increasedresponsibility you assume risk,
you assume the lot, you know thesafety and wellbeing of those
who serve under you and thosethat you work with, and I know
(25:30):
the responsibility that comeswith that because I've been in
that position and I have alwaysand I've never been in a
situation before where thattrust has been compromised.
(25:53):
And so, yeah, when I'm beingtold we're still drinking it, I
am just like we're stilldrinking and I'm still going to
work.
And you know there are folkswho are getting sick and I'm
like man, that is terrible, howcan we support them?
But you know, like on the otherside, thank God that's not my
family and turns out we couldhave been more vigilant.
We probably should have movedout a lot sooner and we probably
should have stopped drinkingthe water a lot sooner than we
did, because I don't think we'dbe in this position had we had
(26:16):
the warning and had we had theknowledge from the very
beginning.
Larry Zilliox (26:20):
So now the illnesses begin to take place,
you're hospitalized.
Begin to take place, you'rehospitalized, there's a lot of
tests and things, and you askfor some records for the kids
mostly but all four of you andthe Navy says no, you can't have
them.
File a FOIA request, which in aprevious life I filed a lot of
(26:43):
FOIA requests.
So I wasted a lot of time in mylife filing FOIA requests
because they're useless.
The backlog is just ridiculous.
What you end up getting ismostly redacted and it's a very
little use.
And then to signal to you thatdon't even bother to file a FOIA
(27:06):
request because there's no wayyou're getting the records,
because we're going to claimthat this is a national security
issue, which means a FOIA isuseless.
The only way you got a half achance is you're going to have
to pay a lawyer to sue us.
And what did you think when youheard that?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (27:24):
Everything changed for me at that moment.
So the gentleman who told meabout that and I think you're
referencing from the task andpurpose article is I had met
with the chief of staff of JointBase Pearl Harbor, hiccup.
You know, at that point, aftermy family had been poisoned,
everything changed.
I mean I went into full mamabear mode.
I was still a major fight, butI was a major mom at that point,
and not only for my kids, and Ithink I told you earlier, you
(27:47):
know, we're older parents.
So when I'm dropping my one andthree year off, one and four
off at the child care facility,the parents of one and four year
olds in the military, they'resignificantly younger.
You know I could probably besome of their parents right, and
I thought to myself I've been ajunior soldier and I didn't
have a voice then.
I didn't know my rights or Ididn't know my resources and I
(28:08):
felt a huge responsibility tonot only speak up for my kids
and get some answers, but mykids were going to the largest
daycare facility on thatdrinking water system, 250 plus
kids, and all of the directorhad no, she had no answers for
us, none.
And so I went knocking,utilizing, you know the open
(28:29):
door policy and sat in a roomwith people who far outrank me
and I just said, hey, I'd love,you know, to be able to have a
candid conversation with you.
As Mandy Fine, a lot of times Ibrought my husband with me
because you know.
Larry Zilliox (28:41):
And he's a civilian.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (28:42):
My husband is a civilian, so you may be
able to tell me to stand down,but when we're talking about our
kids, it's not likely that Iwill stand down.
However, if we come to thatposition, here's my civilian
husband and he will not standdown for you, especially for our
children.
And so there were a lot ofuncomfortable positions that we
were put in, and I'm gratefulthat those senior leaders did
(29:03):
meet with us off the bat.
But I had met with the chief ofstaff and some other
individuals, with your seniorfolks in the NWR and daycare
facilities, and I said our kidsare not getting clean water and
these parents don't have a cluewhat's going on.
And we're talking aboutinnocent children and civilians.
We're not talking about greensuitors.
These kids are not volunteerfor this.
They did not take an oath, theydid not sign up for inherent
(29:25):
risk.
We owe it to these daycareproviders and these children to
give them access to clean water.
Not only that, but when I was inthe hospital with my children
after we had been exposed, Iremember an ER physician saying
well, major Feint, you know,that bottle that I had for my
son was a, you know, a personal.
This is another thing.
Like I feel like I'm ErinBrockovich in my way through a
(29:46):
water crisis.
I didn't know about, you know,certain plastics and what holds
on to contamination.
I mean, I had no idea.
But we told them, hey, westopped drinking the water on
this date.
Well, he said, major Fein, whatabout that baby bottle that you
have for your son, trip Like?
Is that a new bottle?
I said, no, clean, you knowwater.
And a previously contaminatedor a cup that you've washed with
(30:10):
contaminated water for Lordknows how long, doesn't equal
clean water anymore.
And so I fought with that chiefof staff and with senior
directors, with the daycarefacilities, to get all daycare
CDCs replenished, like we needto replace all person use
plastics.
Because my 13 month old doesnot have the vocabulary to say
hey, miss Sam, that teethingtool that I'm putting in my
(30:32):
mouth, or these cups that you'reusing, or the things that
you're using to cook their meals, it tastes like jet fuel.
The kids just don't know thatand the teachers don't have,
they don't get, there's notenough of them, they don't get
paid enough to be sniffing toysand tasting them to see if they
taste like fuel.
So we it's a drop in the bucketat this point to be able to
replace these things.
So, going back to the FOIA stuff, on a Friday December 10th I
(30:57):
believe it was I demanded tospeak with these senior level
folks.
We talked about the daycarereplacing all that.
Another thing we said is I wantmy home tested.
I want the test results from myhome and I want the test
results from the Ford Island CDC.
Oh, it's too easy.
Made a bunch of promises whenI'm sitting there in front of
their faces.
We're going to.
This is going to happen.
We're going to make sure ithappens Before I go to bed.
It's going to happen.
Over the weekend we end up inthe hospital, my husband and son
(31:20):
, and then on that Monday, the Ipersonally ended up and so did
my daughter, and I called thesame gentleman who made all
those promises to me and I saidI want the test results from my
home.
I know that they were at myhouse on the 10th and I want the
test results from the CDC.
The director has told me on thedays that y'all spent out to
test, I want them and he and thedeputy commander, colonel
Staples he was an Air Forceofficer Michael Staples said
(31:44):
Major Feint, you can file afour-year request for those test
results, just like anyone elsecan, and everything changed for
me.
Larry Zilliox (31:54):
You know, I felt like that was a very—.
That's when the stone wall wentup.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's when I knew I was part of
a massive cover-up.
That's when the institutionalbetrayal set in.
That is when my entire views ofthe military and the years that
I had served and, you know,risking my life for the country
and all of that, you know, justlike that, everything changed.
(32:18):
You can file a FOIA request forthe water test results in your
own home and for the daycarefacility where your children are
, you know, 10 hours a day whileyou're working.
File a FOIA request.
I wouldn't get the results fromthose for years.
I'll tell you this.
And I say that because I knowthat.
And here's why Because afterthat day, after December 13th,
(32:39):
after that conversation with theJoint Base, their senior
leadership, I became veryoutspoken and I did go to the
media and I did, you know, filecongressional complaints and I
did seek counsel and I did, youknow, involve folks because I
just felt like, anywhere Iturned, you know, I was getting
the Heisman.
(32:59):
No one wanted to talk to meanymore and I received a lot of
retaliation.
I went from being in reallygreat standing with my unit you
know, coming up for mylieutenant colonel board doing a
really great job in my unit tobeing grossly retaliated against
, not only from my own unit,which was really hurtful, but
from members you know in theNavy, an organization I'd never
(33:21):
served, so I wasn't familiarwith how those folks were.
The retaliation was just awful,hostile work environment.
I felt very I mean all while,by the way, we're living in
hotel rooms.
We never went back to our houseafter the hospital, like we
were living in hotel rooms.
We were in and out of doctors.
We were so sick I was notsleeping.
I was staying up at night.
You know watching my kids sleep, praying to God that they would
(33:44):
wake up the next morning,because I was terrified.
I didn't have any test resultsat that point.
I didn't know what my kids hadingested.
Larry Zilliox (33:51):
Well, the test results.
The answer for the test resultsis very simple they were bad.
If they were good, they wouldhave handed them over in a
second Right.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (34:07):
But the minute they say, oh, 504 or
national security or whatever,you know they're really bad
because they don't want to givethem up.
An error happened, A humanerror, something happened, we
now.
People were harmed.
Those are the facts.
Something happened, people wereharmed and now we, this elite
organization, this familyoriented the motto that says
people are for politics andpeople are our greatest asset.
(34:27):
Now's the time that we put ourmoney where our mouth is and we
take care of our people.
That didn't happen.
And further, if you had theintestinal fortitude to speak
out and demand answers, not onlyfor your family but your
brothers and sisters in arms,you were then retaliated against
, and I wasn't the only one.
I ended up having to file forDepartment of Defense
whistleblower protection.
I filed that complaint inFebruary of 2022.
(34:49):
And as I sit here across fromyou, larry, today, over two
years later, my complaint hasstill not been adjudicated.
I have been passed overpromotion to lieutenant colonel
twice, I have had my securityclearance threatened, my TSSCI
threatened.
I have, you know, launchedseveral complaints and I don't
(35:12):
have an answer and adjudicationfor any of that.
And all the while, the peoplewho are responsible for this
crisis, the people who areresponsible for the retaliation.
They have either been promotedor been able to retire with
their careers intact, no lessretire with awards for how they
(35:33):
handled.
I mean I'm sure you read that inthe task and purpose article
the base commander, captainSpitzer, the guy that told
everyone hey, the water's safe,we're all still drinking it,
that guy left with, I think, alegion of merit the bullets in
there about how he handled thewater crisis and was able to
retire with his career intact.
Admiral Poparo, who was thePacific Fleet commander right,
(35:57):
senior Navy guy on island.
He's the one that did theinterview with Nora Roberts I
think that's her name, right,nora?
Anyways, about the state of theNavy just recently on 60
Minutes.
And that's him.
He was nominated by SecretaryAustin this year for the Chief
of Naval Operations, the mostsenior Navy position.
Now, that was not in, like, Ican't believe it, but President
(36:20):
Biden did not accept that butand so he picked the first, you
know, female at CNOM.
But I guess where AdmiralPaparo serves now.
He was not asked to leave theNavy.
He was protected from appearingin court.
He didn't have to testify incourt during trial.
You know where Admiral Paparosits today.
He's the commander ofIndo-Pacific Command Again, the
largest combatant command in themilitary.
(36:44):
Well, it has been, just you knowlike.
Here I am over two years laterjust waiting to see like does
the military agree?
I was retaliated against.
Can we talk about thosepromotions?
The fact that I left on acompassionate reassignment
without you know, for the firsttime in my entire career,
without a PCS award.
You know, no fault of my own,why I left the unit.
My family was extremely ill.
No award, no farewell, nogoodbye.
Larry Zilliox (37:05):
What recourse does your husband have as a
civilian?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (37:09):
So well we went to court.
The way that that whole thingworked out is which was another
whole like just stressful thing.
We'd obviously never been in atthat point, been involved with
the court system, certainlynever a lawsuit.
But the reason I've gone toCongress so many times is that
there is nothing in the law.
There is, there is no, there'snot a piece of legislation that
(37:30):
says you were poisoned by thegovernment, you were poisoned by
the military on American soil.
And we've got you.
We've got you covered.
We've got your medical, we'vegot your medical testing, we've
got your medical monitoring.
We're going to take care of you.
There's nothing Now for me.
I can go through the VA processand we'll you know.
But look how long that took.
(37:51):
Camp Legend took them over 30years.
And what's wild is the PACT Actwas signed right around the
time that Red Hill happened andthat just gives the folks of
Camp Lejeune an opportunity tofile suit.
That doesn't mean that I meanthe Lord knows when they'll see
a pretty much any restitutionfor every suit filed.
Larry Zilliox (38:18):
And I recently had a guest from the VFW, who we
talked about that the federalcourt down in that jurisdiction
is starting to get on the Navyand the Marine Corps and say
just settle these things, forgoodness sake.
You're wasting the court's timewith fighting every one of them
and hopefully there'll be somemovement on that.
Where do things on the islandstand now?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (38:42):
Well, we fought really hard, we made a
lot of noise.
Something interesting thathappened that was pretty
historic is that you know thepeople of Hawaii, especially
Native Hawaiians.
There is some animosity rightwith the military.
They don't, they are not veryreceptive of military folks.
Now, for the economy, there isa benefit, right Like we provide
a lot to the island when itcomes to that, but as far as us
(39:04):
being there taking over theirland, not well received, very
respectful of that.
But for the first time inprobably history, the people of
Hawaii and military familieslocked arms, stood in solidarity
and said no more, you don'tpoison your own people and not
take care of them, the peoplewho were given us clean water,
and still to this day.
Do you think it's the military?
(39:25):
No, it is the people of Hawaii.
It is, you know, nonprofitorganizations, the people of
Hawaii who are taking care ofmilitary families, which is
unheard of.
And likewise we are saying careof military families, which is
unheard of.
And likewise we are saying nomore.
Water is Hawaii's most preciousresource.
You have poisoned the soleclean water aquifer, not just
for the Navy drinking watersystem but for the entire island
(39:45):
of Oahu.
And so there were many ofcongressional trips, there were
many of meetings withcongressional leaders, there
were many rallies, there weremany protests.
There were many protests.
There were, you know, just alot of noise and Secretary
Alston made the decision in thespring of 2022 to say once and
(40:05):
for all we are going to shutdown Red Hill.
And today Red Hill is in theprocess of being shut down.
So the tanks have been drainedand phase one of that has
happened.
That concluded in the fall ofexcuse me, I think it just ended
like in January.
So it started in the fall, justended in January.
Now we're in phase two, whichis when they're venting the
(40:27):
tanks to get out the sludge andthe most toxic part that has
kind of lived in there fordecades.
Larry Zilliox (40:33):
Yep, it'll be interesting to see what they do
with that, where that will go.
Yeah, I hope for the sake ofthe people of Hawaii, whatever
is in there and gets taken outdoesn't get left somewhere on
that island.
They don't deserve that.
My guess is it'll probably endup in a hole in New Mexico
somewhere.
Well, at least there's somemovement to rectify things.
(40:56):
And between all the pressurethat you and the families have
brought to force the militaryinto action and the
congressional Well, and thelawsuit yeah, Lawsuit it's been.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (41:10):
You know it's not a major fine thing.
It has been a collective effortfrom military families military
, you know, active duty andspouses and the people of Hawaii
and you know the Oahu WaterProtectors and the Sierra Club
and people who have beenfighting this Board of Water
Supply there in Honolulu, whohave been fighting this for
decades, and we just built somemomentum and we all stood
(41:33):
together in solidarity and thatwas like the big, the monumental
thing.
And then there was thecongressional stuff and then I
guess the last layer would be,yeah, the lawsuit.
I mean there are severallawyers who have taken this on.
You know our legal team, justWell Law, has taken on over
7,500 clients who have filedsuit.
You know there are many of uswho, for years, who have tried
(41:55):
to file suit and, because of theFerris doctrine, have not been
able to.
But there are a group ofactivity service members who
have filed suit for Red Hill aswell.
The first lawsuit is in thefight name is in my husband and
my children's name.
We were part of that case.
We went to trial in May.
That was a very interesting Imean.
This has been two years in themaking.
It was a very interestingexperience.
It was extremely emotional.
(42:18):
We had met so many militaryfamilies but we'd all known each
other virtually, because a lotof us received compassionate
reassignments.
We were all over the world atthat point, different countries
and different states, and we metvirtually through FaceTime and
all the things.
The first time we met,ironically, was at the airport,
you know, heading into trial,which was just really bizarre.
(42:38):
But we've become this familyright.
We've gotten through thiscrisis together because we've
all experienced a lot of thesame symptoms and the same
heartache and the sameretaliation, and you know that
and the solidarity with thepeople of Hawaii have been like
the two good things that havecome out of this, I think.
But sitting in that trial andlistening to the DOJ and
(42:59):
listening to the Navy and Idon't know, I think I had this
false hope, if you will, thatwe'd get to court and they would
just kind of fall on theirsword and just be remorseful and
whatever it was that they coulddo to just, you know, close
this chapter for all of us.
But it was, it was ugly and itwas hard and it was hard to hear
.
You know, just a couple ofthings that stick out to me is
(43:21):
that there were bellwetherfamilies, there were several of
us, and a couple of commentsthat I remember is you know, the
DOJ said something along thelines of you know, you could be
exposed to this stuff Like it'sno different than like inhaling.
This is like inhaling, you know, gas at a gas station, or like
fueling up your lawnmower, andI'm thinking to myself.
(43:43):
My son has permanent lung damageand he's never, you know, put
gas in my car at a gas stationand he certainly never, you know
, fueled up a lawnmower.
In fact, you know, live in ahistoric housing.
We didn't even have a lawnmower because the lawn was taken
care of for us, you know.
So that might make sense forsomeone like me, you know, a 40
year old adult.
Larry Zilliox (44:02):
It doesn't make sense for anybody.
That's just some lawyernonsense.
And you got to see it firsthandthat it was just nonsense and
lies and cover up and everybodyblaming everybody else but
themselves.
And yeah, I'm not surprised atthat at all.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (44:22):
We talked a little bit too.
This was interesting.
So you know there are physicalinjuries that have been
sustained here, a lot of them,you know, from the vestibular
stuff that we've got.
You know a very dear friend ofmine who's been diagnosed now
with Parkinson's and we knowthat's related to fuel exposure.
We've had many women lose theirbabies.
There has been just a range ofphysical injuries that have
(44:44):
happened.
But as a parent, there is a lotof like mental health issues
that have come from this, fromstress and anxiety and
depression.
As a service member, I can tellyou both, you know, wearing two
hats, as both a mother and anactive due service member.
There has been this sense ofinstitutional betrayal and we
actually had a we, our legalteam, had a mental health
(45:06):
provider that came specificallyto talk about institutional
betrayal and that was thrown out.
And the reasoning why isbecause the DOJ or the, you know
, the judge, didn't need to hearabout that and it was compared
and this is I had to walk out ofcourt when I heard this, but
you know this was no differentthan anyone would be.
You know, feel betrayed if theywere poisoning their own
(45:28):
employer and it was said incourt.
This is no different than, youknow, working at McDonald's and
eating a bad cheeseburger.
And I thought to myself youknow, there's absolutely nothing
wrong with working atMcDonald's at all, but less than
1% of our country serves thiscountry and does risk their life
for this country.
And never in a million yearsdid I, you know, go downrange
(45:51):
and risk my life for thiscountry to think that I would
come back to American soil, tothink I'd come back and move my
family to quote unquote paradisefor my own employer to now
poison my children covered up,lie about it and think that they
can just get away with it.
And it's like eating a badcheeseburger, it's like, you
know, fueling up my gas tank.
(46:11):
It just and again, you know, hadI not met the people who have
gone through this at CampLejeune, you know that helped
but it still was like a run.
I mean that hurt.
It hit really deep.
For me, it cut very deep as aservice member to hear someone
just downplay it, thesignificance of what folks have
gone through and how hurtfulthis has been for people.
Yeah, it's been tough andthere's still no outcome.
(46:35):
You know we're still waiting ona decision.
You know thousands of people.
There are four different suits,I believe, that have been
brought, with thousands ofpeople in each of them and, just
like Camp Lejeune, there hasbeen nothing paid out.
And for us, especially as thelead plaintiffs for this, I just
want to make clear that for usit's really has never been about
(46:55):
the money.
But when you ask, like, whatrecourse is there for your
family?
Va benefits does not cover myhusband and it does not cover my
children, and so the onlyrecourse that civilians whether
they are civilian not affiliatedto the military, or civilians
like my husband and my childrentheir only option is to file a
(47:16):
lawsuit against their owngovernment.
And as a very patriotic family,like that's tough, that's a
really tough position to be in,but that was our only option,
because how else are we Godforbid when the inevitable
happens and my folks end up withsome of the cancers and some of
the major issues likeParkinson's and things that Camp
Lejeune has, because that's allwe have to look to, that is our
(47:38):
future and that's scary, sure.
How else would we be able toafford the best medical care?
Larry Zilliox (47:44):
Well, let's be honest here, they're the ones
that put you in that position,so I don't have any sympathy for
them.
I think that you know, takethem to the cleaners and you
know bank that money becauseyou're going to need it, for you
know, medical care here it'sgreat but it's super expensive,
(48:08):
and you know there are chancesof needing care for extended
periods of time.
For sure.
What would you, as we kind ofwrap things up here, what would
you like our listeners, what'sthe most important thing that
you would like our listeners toknow about this journey you've
(48:28):
been on and what happened to you?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (48:32):
Yeah, I think the number one thing is
just for folks to be informed,to know about it.
I mean, we got back here, backto the States and for over two
years.
I mean I just went to anappointment this morning and my
physician didn't even know aboutthe Red Hill water crisis, much
like many people didn't knowabout Camp Lejeune for 30 years,
(48:53):
and so I don't.
I want people to be informed.
I want medical providers toknow what Red Hill is.
I want folks to know that thishappened.
When we start talking aboutmental health and I believe that
this month is mental healthawareness and I think that the
DOD and the VA are actuallyhaving a mental health
conference this week as we speakI didn't have any sort of like
mental health issues.
(49:13):
I had never been diagnosedafter my deployment with like
PTSD.
The stress of this has been attimes like just unbearable the
mom guilt, the institutionalbetrayal.
You know incidents like thisfeeling, that sense of betrayal.
It cuts deep and it hurts andit changes everything and it is
life changing.
It is life changing.
So I want you know, I wantfolks to be informed, I want
(49:35):
medical providers to be informed, I want what I am looking for
out of this is is basic thingslike the congressional state.
From the congressionalstandpoint, you know, I do want
legislation eventually to bepassed that does say the
government poisons you, thegovernment is obligated to take
care of you.
That you don't have to fileFOIA requests to get test
results from the water in yourown home that you know I asked
(49:57):
for, I wanted to know, becauseyou know, for our treating
providers, I wanted them to knowexactly what my kids have been
exposed to, exactly what was inJP5, because it's not pure.
I wanted to know the additivesand the constituents and what
made up JP5.
And so I got a list, but therewere several things that said
trade secret.
But I probably will never knowwhat that additive or
constituent was, and I deserve,as a parent, to know what my
(50:21):
kids have ingested, and so dotheir treating providers.
They deserve to know that, andso we have a long way to go.
But the biggest thing, and thereason I'm so grateful for you
and any media outlet that has,you know, allowed me to use
their platform to share ourstory is just awareness.
Congressionally, we're trying todo many things.
(50:41):
That's one of them, you know.
Another thing that we've beentrying to push is something as
simple as this might knock youout of your chair is?
You know?
I've gone to Congress and askedmany times people laugh in my
face, but you know I asked forhazardous duty pay for the folks
who worked, those in this water, who worked in this environment
, who are part of the cleanup ofRed Hill.
It's a very dangerous task,it's a very toxic task and we
(51:05):
can't even get those soldiers,sailors, airmen, marines, like
hazardous duty pay, which is$150 a month.
You know I'm going off on atangent here, but I am a
personnelist and pay is part ofmy area of expertise in my lane
and I've said why aren't wepaying these people hazardous
duty pay?
And why that number, that $150matters is because $150 is how
(51:27):
much it costs a family of fourto be delivered an alternate
water source monthly in Hawaii.
I know that because we had analternate water source delivered
to us because we refused todrink the water again, and so I
think that folks are doing a Imean, there is the dodie that
you know Department of Defenseinstruction for pay, for special
pay out when there was aspecial section for jet fuel
(51:49):
exposure, and they are stillrefusing to pay these people and
I like why and I think it'sthat you would admit that this
stuff is toxic and harmful.
But people already know thatThousands of people were sick
during COVID, I was aparatrooper and I jumped out of
airplanes and I got paid $150 amonth because I was on hazardous
duty pay.
(52:10):
I was on hazardous duty ordersand so I got $150 a month and I
would jump once a quarter.
That was my only obligation.
During COVID, there was anexception to policy that DOD
granted that because we weren'tdoing airborne operations, there
was an exception to policy thatsays, even though we're not,
you know, meeting the minimumrequirements to get this pay,
you're still going to get your$150 a month.
People weren't doing, theyweren't jumping out of airplanes
(52:31):
, but they were still gettingpaid.
And we can't get people who areactually doing their jobs, who
are living on a contaminateddrinking water system, who are
working in a highly toxicenvironment.
They can't get them $100 amonth.
It just blows my mind.
And so there's a lot of thingstwo years later that we are
still working on, but thebiggest thing and I'll say it
again is just knowledge is powerand yeah, Arm yourself for sure
(52:55):
.
Larry Zilliox (52:55):
Yeah Well, listen , major, I can't thank you
enough for joining us.
It's very important to getthese stories out, and one of
the things I often think aboutis there's a lot of young people
who joined the military, andone of the things that I always
say to them is that when youjoin the military, it's going to
change your life.
To him is that when you jointhe military, it's going to
(53:17):
change your life hopefully forthe good, but maybe not but it's
going to change your life.
I can guarantee that and,unfortunately, in this
particular instance, it justwasn't for the good, and I thank
you so much for bringing thisto our attention and to being
willing to talk about it.
It's so important.
I really, really appreciate youcoming on.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (53:40):
Thank you so much.
Larry Zilliox (53:41):
So for our regular listeners, we'll have
another episode next Mondaymorning at 5 am.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services,
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, She was stationed in
Hawaii, and she and her familywere part of the Red Hill fuel
storage leak incident.
this week we are joined by ArmyMajor Amanda Feint.
She is here to talk about herstory.
I like to call it acatastrophe.
(00:24):
This happened in 2021.
I remember reading about Amandaand her family in 2022 in Task
and Purpose, and so I'm verythankful that she's here today
to tell us about what happenedto her family and hundreds of
(00:45):
other families like hers, whenthis unfortunate fuel spill
happened in Hawaii and I thinkour listeners are all very
familiar with.
If you turn on the TV, you'refamiliar with the Marine Corps
water incident, but this issomething that unfortunately,
just hasn't got as muchpublicity as that, and we're
(01:08):
here to fix that.
So, major welcome to thepodcast.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:11):
Thank you so much, larry, for having me, and
I feel very blessed to be here.
Larry Zilliox (01:15):
Let's start with just a brief overview of why you
joined the Army, what yourcareer was like up until you
received your assignment to goto Hawaii, and then we'll get
into that and talk a little bitabout that.
But when did you join?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:33):
Well, let me back up before I tell you when
I joined.
So 9-11 happened my senior yearof high school.
Larry Zilliox (01:39):
Okay.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (01:39):
And I don't come from, you know, my folks
didn't serve in the military,but my grandparents did and it's
been a multigenerational thing,and so we're a huge patriotic
family, big Army family.
So when I went to college, Iwent to school on a truck
scholarship.
You know, there was a boothsitting outside of my college,
just out in the quad, and one ofthem was for ROTC and I was
(02:00):
there, you know, running, andthe Ranger Challenge team was
out there and they needed a girlto compete, you know, to be
competitive on the RangerChallenge team.
And so, I don't know, I just Ifelt, after 9-11 happened, I
felt like it was my time toserve, but I didn't really know
what that looked like and I knewthat I was already going to
school on a scholarship.
And so ROTC provided me theopportunity to continue to be
(02:24):
athletic and to continue to be aleader and learn a little bit
more about the Army.
And you know, never in amillion years did I think that
I'd be here still 20 years later.
I always said I'd serve in themilitary until they were done
with me or I was done with it.
I've loved it.
So, yeah, in college I ended uptrying ROTC out, I ran and did
(02:44):
ROTC, commissioned in 2000,excuse me, 2006.
Wow, I'm dating myself 2006.
And I was a?
Um, an air defense officer.
I loved it.
I uh, you know, I got to travelto so many wonderful new places
.
I got to experience so manydifferent cultures and be around
like a diverse group of people,and those things are things
(03:05):
that you know from my hometown.
I just wasn't used to and thissmall town you grew up in.
I grew up in Hampton, virginia.
Oh, not too small, but it'syeah, medium size will cost Sure
Yep.
And now?
Well then, we moved toSmithfield, virginia.
But but now?
Larry Zilliox (03:20):
Hampton, yeah, huge Navy presence.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (03:22):
Hampton huge Navy presence there is, there's
an Air Force base, there's aNavy and there is Army.
Larry Zilliox (03:27):
Very little Army compared to everybody else.
Right Big Navy.
I'm surprised the Navy didn'tscoop you up.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (03:34):
No, Like I said, we were.
Everyone in my family has beenin the Army and so I just I
don't know if I tried to.
If I would have tried to go tothe Navy, I'm sure someone would
have reeled me in, yeah, lockedmy heels up, but yeah, I just I
have loved, loved, loved beingin the military.
I've, you know, I commissionedas a second lieutenant, made my
(03:57):
way through the ranks and haveserved in various leadership
positions, from being a platoonleader Then I did a branch
transfer to the Adjutant GeneralCorps, where I do predominantly
human resources.
But I was as soon as I did thatbranch transfer I went to Fort
Bragg and I served in the 82nddeployed with them.
When I got back I had the uniqueexperience to command as a
headquarters commander for the82nd Cab, a combat aviation
(04:20):
brigade, which was such a reallyawesome experience.
And from there I was recruitedto be an ROTC instructor here in
Virginia at George MasonUniversity.
I did that for three years andso that was just such a
rejuvenating and amazing sort ofprofessional knee and it was
after a deployment and so for meit was just really rejuvenating
(04:40):
.
It really had come full circle,because I did ROTC in college
and it was the time of my lifethat I needed, after a
deployment, to, you know, bearound these cadets who were
super motivated and again camefull circle.
You know they were inspired byme, but I was certainly inspired
by them, just their motivationand how passionate they were to
serve in a time when conflictwas still happening, downrange
(05:08):
range and yeah.
So from there I went and workedas a brigade S1, so at the
brigade level and then as a G1in the space community when
space was just becoming well,now we've got a whole new branch
of service space but I workedfor Space and Missile Defense
Command and then and during thattime I got the unique
opportunity to either go toGermany or go to Hawaii, and I
had never traveled to Hawaii forleisure.
(05:29):
It's something that I'd alwayskind of held off on doing
because, you know, I thoughtthis would be the ultimate
location, especially to retireat, and so and that's not really
a tough call.
Larry Zilliox (05:40):
No, germany is nice.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (05:41):
Well, it is yeah To go, but Hawaii, yeah,
yeah, Well it is yeah, hawaii,yeah, yeah.
Well, I'll let you in on alittle secret Like this is kind
of silly, but when I got married, my last name became Feint, and
it is German and if you look itup it translates to enemy, and
I just didn't think that wecould be well-received in
Germany with a last name likethat.
Oh, my goodness.
So, as if you know, choosingHawaii or Germany was a really
(06:06):
tough decision.
Maybe that's still the deal, Idon't know.
Went to Hawaii Again just atthat point.
I think I'd been in the servicefor about 16 years and we were
super motivated and superexcited to be there.
We were living the dream, whichreally were.
We had lived off base initiallyand about a year or so after us
being there Hawaii is extremelyexpensive we had been on the
(06:27):
housing waiting list for quitesome time we got offered this
amazing house on historic FortIsland and I don't know, larry,
I think we discussed this, buthave you been to Hawaii?
Yeah, so we got offered thisamazing historic home that had
survived the attack on PearlHarbor, on Fort Island, and we
said we didn't think twice.
We said, heck, yes.
Larry Zilliox (06:45):
Yeah, now that's where you billeted.
That's the house they gave you.
Did you work on Ford Island, orwhere were you working at the
time?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (06:55):
So I worked for Special Operations Command
Pacific, and we wereheadquartered at Camp Smith, so
it's a Marine Corps base thatshares a building with
Indo-Pacific Command, which isthe largest combatant command in
the military.
Larry Zilliox (07:06):
Yeah, okay so, and two children, and they went
to the Ford Island DaycareCenter.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (07:13):
They did, yeah, and quickly, about my kids
.
So Patrick and I are, we'reolder parents, you know, in our
40s now.
Both of us and I reallystruggled to get pregnant when I
got back from Afghanistan.
In fact we couldn't and I sayall that to say, not to proclaim
to be a parent who loves mychildren more than anyone else,
but we fought really hard tohave our kids, both through
infertility treatments, and welost a baby, unfortunately, in
(07:35):
between, and so we fought reallyhard to have kids and we
brought two perfect, wonderful,healthy children to Hawaii, by
the grace of God, perfect,wonderful, healthy children to
Hawaii, by the grace of God.
And you know, I've oftenwondered if my deployment, my
toxic exposure downrange, ismuch like many women who go
downrange and they struggle toget pregnant.
Infertility is obviously a bigissue among women in the
military, and so I've oftenwondered if my deployment had
(07:57):
anything to do with myinfertility, because both my
husband and I we both hadunexplained infertility To sort
of get past that moment and thatchapter in her life and to
bring healthy kids to Hawaii inparadise, and, you know, fulfill
our dream of raising our kidsby the ocean, which is, you know
, patrick and I both did thatgrowing up.
We felt really blessed and toI'm sorry for getting emotional,
(08:20):
but to you know to be there andto have them when you live on
base and when you have yourchildren at an on-base daycare
facility, there's almost like anextra sense of security, if you
will.
There's another layer of thatwhere you feel like not only
physically they're protected,right being on a secure base,
but also you're surrounded byyour tribe Exactly your people,
(08:43):
your family, yeah, your tribe,exactly your people, your family
, those who become your familywhen your actual family can't be
there for you.
And especially in Hawaii, whenyou're so far away from everyone
the military, the folks whocare for your children.
There's just an extra layer oftrust there and I think that's
why and we'll get into it but Ithink that's why the sense of
betrayal, the moral injury of itall it cuts so deep for us,
(09:05):
because there was a lot of trust.
Larry Zilliox (09:08):
Sure?
Well, there always is whenyou're in the military, because
you follow orders and you justassume that the people in
command above you yes, Iunderstand they have to give you
orders, but they're looking outfor you and that's the way it
should be.
And officers should always belooking out for NCOs and
enlisted.
(09:28):
They're in their care.
It's a huge responsibility.
On Hawaii in 2020, it just allfell apart, and it became pretty
obvious to me in reading allabout this catastrophe.
There were people in the chainof command that just weren't
taking care of the troops andthose under them that they were
(09:52):
responsible for.
So take us back to 2020.
And not only you, but a largenumber of people on the
installation begin to reportthat there's a problem with the
water.
It's got a sheen to it, it'sgot a smell to it, it tastes
terrible, it's not right.
(10:13):
And you and others bring it tothe attention of command, and
what you get back is justamazing.
No, it's okay, it's all right,we're drinking it, so don't
worry.
No, it's okay, it's all right,we're drinking it, so don't
worry.
Just go about your day.
And then people start to getsick, and then your family
starts to get sick.
So what happens then?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (10:36):
Well, I want to circle back one more time,
or go back a little bit furtherthan November of 2021.
So we got offered that house inApril of 2021.
We had to move ourselves.
So we slowly kind of moved in.
So we were kind of in thathouse at the beginning of May.
One thing we didn't know is thatthere was a massive fuel leak
that actually caused thisNovember spill to happen.
(10:56):
20,000 gallons of fuel leakedon May 5th, I believe, of 2021.
And guess what?
They didn't tell us about it.
None of us knew about it.
And you know, had we known?
I didn't even know what RedHill was, to be completely
honest.
Sure, you know, typically whenyou travel to other countries,
you get a country brief.
You know sort of what you'rewalking in about, the lay of the
land and the people and theassets that we have there and
(11:18):
all of that.
I had no idea what Red Hill wasbefore I came to Hawaii, much
less before I moved into on-basehousing that was on the Navy's
drinking water system that hadbeen compromised.
If you go back and look at thehistory had been compromised by
this asset before for decades.
I had no idea, so I would havenever made the conscious
decision to move my family intothis home.
(11:39):
Had I known, but there was aspill.
Larry Zilliox (11:41):
There's no reason for you to know, or anybody.
It's not part of your job,right?
And it's got to be one of theleast interesting parts of the
installation, right?
So, yes, I can completelyunderstand why people would just
not be at all informed about itor care about it one bit.
The other thing that I think isimportant for people to
(12:04):
understand is the age of thesystem.
This is an installation that'sbeen around since World War II
and this is an ongoing problemthat, had you been aware of, you
wouldn't have moved on base.
It would have been better tospend the extra money and stay
off base, where everything wassafe, absolutely yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (12:23):
So this still happened in May.
We had no idea.
But you know I told you beforewe had been living in Hawaii for
about a year in the middle ofCOVID and never had COVID.
We were a perfectly healthyfamily for that first year After
May.
You could go back and don'ttake my word for it.
You know you could go back andlook at my medical records.
We just became really sick.
(12:44):
My son at the time when wemoved in, you know he was 13
months old.
He took his first steps in thathome in May.
He was a perfectly healthychild.
He started developing a coughalmost immediately.
We were, you know, just gettingsick all the time.
We should buy stock in COVIDtests.
You know like how many we took.
We never had COVID and you knowjust fatigue, how many we took.
We never had COVID and you knowjust, fatigue, anxiety started
(13:05):
to set in, couldn't sleep,stomach issues.
I didn't even know whatvestibular dysfunction were, but
we were having, like vertigo,headaches, particularly with my
husband, a lot of GI issues, ifI didn't say that, skin issues.
You know I was.
We were living on base, my kidswere going to school or daycare
on base and I was, you know,working on the base and during
my lunch breaks I would go and Iwas, you know, a swimmer and I
(13:27):
ran track, but I would spend mylunch break swimming at the Camp
Smith outdoor pool and I wasstarting to have skin issues
Again.
We just never put two and twotogether.
My son started almostimmediately developing this rash
.
This is all before the massiveNovember spill that made us all
like super sick.
There was no denying it.
But, this is all.
This is all.
After we moved into the house,and after that May spill is when
(13:50):
we started getting sick, my sonstarted developing this rash
that was from his waist down.
Now, saying this out loud toyou now, for everything we've
lived with, you know I live witha lot of mom guilt about this.
But again, like you had said,why would you like, why would
you think about it, right?
So we kept taking him to hispediatrician and we'd get all
these topical things for hisrashes.
(14:11):
You know we were treated foreverything from diaper rash to
eczema.
You know, none of us had everhad eczema before.
We're living in Hawaii, it's notlike it's a dry climate or
anything, but you know we triedeverything and we were diligent
about getting our kids to thedoctor.
So when things weren't working,I kind of took things in my own
hands as a mother and I said myson is just like you know, he's
really struggling.
And I went and I bought himsome of you know baby bath soak
(14:34):
and I just kept soaking him inthe water and you know you've
met my son like he's just assweet as he can be, and I
realized now that I was makingit worse.
You know it wasn't eczema.
My son was being burned by thewater and the reason I know that
is because the ration covershis whole body.
Larry Zilliox (14:50):
Right only when he was sitting in it.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (14:52):
Yeah, and you're not at his age.
He's not taking a shower yet.
I'm submerging him in thebathtub.
You know he's just learning towalk, and so anyways, fast
forward.
Larry Zilliox (15:00):
We were getting sick all through the summer,
november happened and in theoryis that a slow leak is
developing.
That turned into a gusher wheneverybody got really sick.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (15:17):
That is the belief that they tried to clean
up the spill in May and thatthey didn't get to all of it and
some of it compromised thedrinking water system then and
then the November spill.
What happened specifically withthat is that there was a cart
that actually hit a sinking pipeit was an AFFF, a firefighting
system that a cart hitunderground and that pipe was
hanging and it was not supposedto be anything in there and
(15:39):
turns out it was all of thatfuel that they couldn't account
for and water that they ended uphitting and all of that leaked
for over 30 hours before for andwater that they end up hitting
it and all of that leaked forover 30 hours before they were
able to get a hold of it.
And that still happened onNovember 20th.
You know my folks who were alsohere at the retreat with us.
They came to visit.
They're from Virginia.
They came to visit andimmediately my daughter's
(16:00):
birthday is on the 26th.
I remember 26th of November, andI remember you know they were
there trying to celebrate mydaughter's birthday too and my
mom was just deathly ill, likeshe couldn't stay out the toilet
, she coming out both ends, youknow.
I think my mom lost about 12pounds because she was so sick.
My dad got sick.
People were thousands of peoplein that drinking water system
were cooking their Thanksgivingmeal, you know, in contaminated
(16:22):
water meal.
You know, in contaminated water.
Thousands of people over thecourse of that next, you know,
two or three weeks, ended up atTripler, at Tripler Army Medical
Center, the main hospital there, just as sick as could be and
it didn't spare anyone on thedrinking water system.
So there are several main basesthere.
There is, you know, the bigjoint base which is Pearl Harbor
(16:42):
, hickam, which is an Air Forceand Navy base.
But, like I said, I was at CampSmith, you know the big joint
base which is Pearl Harbor,Hickam, which is an Air Force
and Navy base.
But, like I said, I was at CampSmith, you know, army girl
living on a Navy base, workingon a Marine Corps base, you know
.
So the Marine Corps base wasimpacted.
There were several bases thatwere impacted but there were,
you know, over.
You know, I think it's like 25or so housing neighborhoods both
(17:02):
on and off base that were partof the Navy's drinking water
system and so the way gravityand the system sort of flowed,
certain neighborhoods wereimpacted.
First we were on the west sideof that system, so we actually
didn't end up in the hospitaluntil December 11th.
Patrick and Tripp did, and thenmy daughter Palmer and I ended
(17:25):
up on December 13th, and then, Imean, we were, we were so sick,
and then on the 13th we endedup evacuated from our home.
For three months Our house was,you know, we couldn't live in
it.
We were shuffled between sevendifferent hotels.
Our lives have never been thesame since at this point, you
know, it's been over two yearsor so and we have gone to over
(17:46):
500 medical appointments.
The kids have been put undernine times for upper and lower
GI scopes, you know, permanentrespiratory issues, so bronchial
scrope, bronchial lavage.
My husband's had three GIsurgeries.
My career I never thought I'dend my career this way but it's
ending, you know, in a med board.
I'm in the med board processnow and I am I'm still on active
(18:06):
duty, but I have been taken outof my day job and I've been put
in the soldier recovery unit,which used to be the old wounded
warrior battalion.
I am my job status, what's onmy what's on my record?
Right now my job title ispatient, and so that is.
My job is to seek medical care.
Larry Zilliox (18:21):
And when we're talking about fuel, are we
talking about JP4?
Jp5.
Jp5.
Okay, so Navy fuel for ships.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (18:31):
Correct.
Yeah, I think that's importantto note.
So this was a Navy asset.
Yeah.
And with Camp Lejeune it was JP8.
And they had, you know, theissue with the laundromat, but
they also had fuel that wasdiscovered years later.
And you did mention CampLejeune at the start of this
podcast and you know CampLejeune was happening when I was
a small child and you know, tomy own ignorance, I was not
(18:52):
familiar with Camp Lejeune untilour water crisis happened.
You know it's interestingtiming right.
This is one of those historyhas repeated itself situations.
I've been a very outspokenadvocate, obviously, about this
water crisis and because of thatI have been introduced and
folks have reached out to mefrom other water crises.
The USS Nimitz had an issue.
(19:14):
The USS Boxer, you know, beforeus, had an issue with fuel
leaking into their water systemand certainly Camp Lejeune.
And, looking at the documents, Ivisited with a lot of those.
I mean I took a trip out to CampLejeune and was given a tour of
the base and the housing andwent to a Camp Lejeune event and
met a lot of those advocatesand I've reviewed a lot of their
documents, the things that camefrom the Navy and the Marine
(19:36):
Corps during their crisis andover the years and it is like
it's like a mirror image, theverbiage, the medical
gaslighting, the downplaying thesignificance of what happened
is exactly what has happened atRed Hill and it's so
disheartening to me but, as youcan imagine, it's really
disheartening for those folkswho have been fighting for their
(19:57):
families for over 30 years, forthe folks who have gone to
Congress so many times and whohave tried to fight for
accountability and justice, whohave buried their children.
God rest their souls.
You can only imagine how upsetthey are, that the time and
effort that they have spent toprevent something like this from
ever happening again, to seethis happen at Red Hill.
They've been extremely upset.
(20:18):
They've also been so wonderfulto our community and have opened
their arms to us and have beena huge, huge support to us, and
we're really grateful for that.
Larry Zilliox (20:27):
As you mentioned, the various housing areas on
the base and off the base thatwere affected.
It was the off the base housingthat involved the Hawaii
Department of EnvironmentalServices and they came out in
November and said no drinking,don't drink this.
(20:50):
But yet the Navy was saying no,it's okay, and it's just a
complete opposite of what theDepartment of Environmental
Services for the state wassaying, which I find
extraordinary.
I would think that at somepoint they've got to say, oh, I
guess the gig is up, we need tostand up and own this.
(21:11):
But apparently that wasn't thepoint in time where they
cowboyed up and tookresponsibility.
Can you recall a point in timeor something that pushed them to
finally say yes, we have aproblem.
And was it just the overload?
The patient overload a tripler,or what do you recall?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (21:33):
I mean, you mentioned it and I said I'll get
back to that, but I didn't.
You're exactly right.
The Hawaii Department of Health, you know the military had an
obligation to report after the2014 leak.
You know, before that the Navykind of policed themselves and
they maintained themselves andthey didn't really have an
obligation to report to folksoutside the military.
(21:54):
But the White Department ofHealth and the EPA had been very
involved since the 2014 spillmany, many years ago.
And they did.
If you go back and look atrecords, the Navy did report the
May 2021 spill to the WhiteDepartment of Health.
The Navy did report theNovember 20, 2021 spill to the
Department of Health andimmediately people after the
(22:17):
November 20 spill were, you know, smelling.
Their houses smell like a gasstation.
Like you mentioned, there was asheen, visible sheen on the
water.
You know it was hard to breathein folks' homes.
Not only were the Navy the Navygetting these calls, the White
Department of Health was gettingthese calls.
Sure, and I think it'simportant to mention that there
are civilians who live in thesehouses.
(22:39):
So the folks who were impactedwere predominantly military
families.
But what happened is, you know,the military came in by force
decades ago and secured a lot ofthe land and over the years
they've given some of that landback.
However, the utilities havestill been supplied by the Navy.
So there's one in particularout at Iroquois Point, kapalina
Beach Homes.
Still.
(23:00):
There are some militaryfamilies that live there, but
that piece of property, if youwill, has been given back to the
people of Hawaii and it ismanaged by, you know, civilians.
However, they still get theirdrinking water from the Navy and
you know they were nevernotified at the beginning.
They had no idea.
I had no idea that we were inthe Navy drinking water system.
(23:20):
The emails that we were gettingfrom the base were saying you
know, joint Base, pearl Harbor,hickam and, like a few other
neighborhoods, fort Island wasnot mentioned.
Camp Smith at the time wasn'tmentioned.
That list continued to growfrom the Navy, but the initial
comments from them or theinitial warning never said hey,
these are all the housingneighborhoods, these are all the
(23:41):
neighborhoods that are on thedrinking water system and you
should be vigilant with yourwater because this fuel has
impacted the sole clean wateraquifer and you all are on this
drinking water system.
So be on alert, be vigilant.
We were never given theopportunity.
And then, even after it happenedand folks from certain
neighborhoods started to report,the Navy still didn't say that.
(24:05):
And you mentioned the HawaiiDepartment of Health did issue a
warning for all drinking watersystem users, but not everyone
knew where their water wascoming from.
Because if you're living offbase, you don't think, no,
you're.
You know, if you're out inKapalina living in a civilian,
you're living amongst civiliansand you have a civilian landlord
(24:26):
like you, don't think twiceabout that.
Yes, it used to be old Navyhousing, but that's just not
something you think of.
So the point I'm trying to makewith this long answer that I'm
giving you is that the HawaiiDepartment of Health did issue
an advisory, but you know whodidn't tell us about that is the
Navy.
Everything that the Navy wassaying was being pushed through
email, they were having thesetown halls and everything was.
(24:47):
You know, my staff and I arestill drinking the water, the
water's safe, but they neversaid and oh, by the way, the
Hawaii Department of Health hasissued an advisory for all
drinking water system users andyour neighborhood is on that
drinking water system, so wejust had no idea, mm-hmm when
they said that they were stilldrinking the water and it was
safe.
Larry Zilliox (25:07):
Did you believe?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (25:08):
Absolutely.
I mean I told you before, youknow I've been a commander right
and so you are, when you wereput in those positions of
authority and increasedresponsibility you assume risk,
you assume the lot, you know thesafety and wellbeing of those
who serve under you and thosethat you work with, and I know
(25:30):
the responsibility that comeswith that because I've been in
that position and I have alwaysand I've never been in a
situation before where thattrust has been compromised.
(25:53):
And so, yeah, when I'm beingtold we're still drinking it, I
am just like we're stilldrinking and I'm still going to
work.
And you know there are folkswho are getting sick and I'm
like man, that is terrible, howcan we support them?
But you know, like on the otherside, thank God that's not my
family and turns out we couldhave been more vigilant.
We probably should have movedout a lot sooner and we probably
should have stopped drinkingthe water a lot sooner than we
did, because I don't think we'dbe in this position had we had
(26:16):
the warning and had we had theknowledge from the very
beginning.
Larry Zilliox (26:20):
So now the illnesses begin to take place,
you're hospitalized.
Begin to take place, you'rehospitalized, there's a lot of
tests and things, and you askfor some records for the kids
mostly but all four of you andthe Navy says no, you can't have
them.
File a FOIA request, which in aprevious life I filed a lot of
(26:43):
FOIA requests.
So I wasted a lot of time in mylife filing FOIA requests
because they're useless.
The backlog is just ridiculous.
What you end up getting ismostly redacted and it's a very
little use.
And then to signal to you thatdon't even bother to file a FOIA
(27:06):
request because there's no wayyou're getting the records,
because we're going to claimthat this is a national security
issue, which means a FOIA isuseless.
The only way you got a half achance is you're going to have
to pay a lawyer to sue us.
And what did you think when youheard that?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (27:24):
Everything changed for me at that moment.
So the gentleman who told meabout that and I think you're
referencing from the task andpurpose article is I had met
with the chief of staff of JointBase Pearl Harbor, hiccup.
You know, at that point, aftermy family had been poisoned,
everything changed.
I mean I went into full mamabear mode.
I was still a major fight, butI was a major mom at that point,
and not only for my kids, and Ithink I told you earlier, you
(27:47):
know, we're older parents.
So when I'm dropping my one andthree year off, one and four
off at the child care facility,the parents of one and four year
olds in the military, they'resignificantly younger.
You know I could probably besome of their parents right, and
I thought to myself I've been ajunior soldier and I didn't
have a voice then.
I didn't know my rights or Ididn't know my resources and I
(28:08):
felt a huge responsibility tonot only speak up for my kids
and get some answers, but mykids were going to the largest
daycare facility on thatdrinking water system, 250 plus
kids, and all of the directorhad no, she had no answers for
us, none.
And so I went knocking,utilizing, you know the open
(28:29):
door policy and sat in a roomwith people who far outrank me
and I just said, hey, I'd love,you know, to be able to have a
candid conversation with you.
As Mandy Fine, a lot of times Ibrought my husband with me
because you know.
Larry Zilliox (28:41):
And he's a civilian.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (28:42):
My husband is a civilian, so you may be
able to tell me to stand down,but when we're talking about our
kids, it's not likely that Iwill stand down.
However, if we come to thatposition, here's my civilian
husband and he will not standdown for you, especially for our
children.
And so there were a lot ofuncomfortable positions that we
were put in, and I'm gratefulthat those senior leaders did
(29:03):
meet with us off the bat.
But I had met with the chief ofstaff and some other
individuals, with your seniorfolks in the NWR and daycare
facilities, and I said our kidsare not getting clean water and
these parents don't have a cluewhat's going on.
And we're talking aboutinnocent children and civilians.
We're not talking about greensuitors.
These kids are not volunteerfor this.
They did not take an oath, theydid not sign up for inherent
(29:25):
risk.
We owe it to these daycareproviders and these children to
give them access to clean water.
Not only that, but when I was inthe hospital with my children
after we had been exposed, Iremember an ER physician saying
well, major Feint, you know,that bottle that I had for my
son was a, you know, a personal.
This is another thing.
Like I feel like I'm ErinBrockovich in my way through a
(29:46):
water crisis.
I didn't know about, you know,certain plastics and what holds
on to contamination.
I mean, I had no idea.
But we told them, hey, westopped drinking the water on
this date.
Well, he said, major Fein, whatabout that baby bottle that you
have for your son, trip Like?
Is that a new bottle?
I said, no, clean, you knowwater.
And a previously contaminatedor a cup that you've washed with
(30:10):
contaminated water for Lordknows how long, doesn't equal
clean water anymore.
And so I fought with that chiefof staff and with senior
directors, with the daycarefacilities, to get all daycare
CDCs replenished, like we needto replace all person use
plastics.
Because my 13 month old doesnot have the vocabulary to say
hey, miss Sam, that teethingtool that I'm putting in my
(30:32):
mouth, or these cups that you'reusing, or the things that
you're using to cook their meals, it tastes like jet fuel.
The kids just don't know thatand the teachers don't have,
they don't get, there's notenough of them, they don't get
paid enough to be sniffing toysand tasting them to see if they
taste like fuel.
So we it's a drop in the bucketat this point to be able to
replace these things.
So, going back to the FOIA stuff, on a Friday December 10th I
(30:57):
believe it was I demanded tospeak with these senior level
folks.
We talked about the daycarereplacing all that.
Another thing we said is I wantmy home tested.
I want the test results from myhome and I want the test
results from the Ford Island CDC.
Oh, it's too easy.
Made a bunch of promises whenI'm sitting there in front of
their faces.
We're going to.
This is going to happen.
We're going to make sure ithappens Before I go to bed.
It's going to happen.
Over the weekend we end up inthe hospital, my husband and son
(31:20):
, and then on that Monday, the Ipersonally ended up and so did
my daughter, and I called thesame gentleman who made all
those promises to me and I saidI want the test results from my
home.
I know that they were at myhouse on the 10th and I want the
test results from the CDC.
The director has told me on thedays that y'all spent out to
test, I want them and he and thedeputy commander, colonel
Staples he was an Air Forceofficer Michael Staples said
(31:44):
Major Feint, you can file afour-year request for those test
results, just like anyone elsecan, and everything changed for
me.
Larry Zilliox (31:54):
You know, I felt like that was a very—.
That's when the stone wall wentup.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's when I knew I was part of
a massive cover-up.
That's when the institutionalbetrayal set in.
That is when my entire views ofthe military and the years that
I had served and, you know,risking my life for the country
and all of that, you know, justlike that, everything changed.
(32:18):
You can file a FOIA request forthe water test results in your
own home and for the daycarefacility where your children are
, you know, 10 hours a day whileyou're working.
File a FOIA request.
I wouldn't get the results fromthose for years.
I'll tell you this.
And I say that because I knowthat.
And here's why Because afterthat day, after December 13th,
(32:39):
after that conversation with theJoint Base, their senior
leadership, I became veryoutspoken and I did go to the
media and I did, you know, filecongressional complaints and I
did seek counsel and I did, youknow, involve folks because I
just felt like, anywhere Iturned, you know, I was getting
the Heisman.
(32:59):
No one wanted to talk to meanymore and I received a lot of
retaliation.
I went from being in reallygreat standing with my unit you
know, coming up for mylieutenant colonel board doing a
really great job in my unit tobeing grossly retaliated against
, not only from my own unit,which was really hurtful, but
from members you know in theNavy, an organization I'd never
(33:21):
served, so I wasn't familiarwith how those folks were.
The retaliation was just awful,hostile work environment.
I felt very I mean all while,by the way, we're living in
hotel rooms.
We never went back to our houseafter the hospital, like we
were living in hotel rooms.
We were in and out of doctors.
We were so sick I was notsleeping.
I was staying up at night.
You know watching my kids sleep, praying to God that they would
(33:44):
wake up the next morning,because I was terrified.
I didn't have any test resultsat that point.
I didn't know what my kids hadingested.
Larry Zilliox (33:51):
Well, the test results.
The answer for the test resultsis very simple they were bad.
If they were good, they wouldhave handed them over in a
second Right.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (34:07):
But the minute they say, oh, 504 or
national security or whatever,you know they're really bad
because they don't want to givethem up.
An error happened, A humanerror, something happened, we
now.
People were harmed.
Those are the facts.
Something happened, people wereharmed and now we, this elite
organization, this familyoriented the motto that says
people are for politics andpeople are our greatest asset.
(34:27):
Now's the time that we put ourmoney where our mouth is and we
take care of our people.
That didn't happen.
And further, if you had theintestinal fortitude to speak
out and demand answers, not onlyfor your family but your
brothers and sisters in arms,you were then retaliated against
, and I wasn't the only one.
I ended up having to file forDepartment of Defense
whistleblower protection.
I filed that complaint inFebruary of 2022.
(34:49):
And as I sit here across fromyou, larry, today, over two
years later, my complaint hasstill not been adjudicated.
I have been passed overpromotion to lieutenant colonel
twice, I have had my securityclearance threatened, my TSSCI
threatened.
I have, you know, launchedseveral complaints and I don't
(35:12):
have an answer and adjudicationfor any of that.
And all the while, the peoplewho are responsible for this
crisis, the people who areresponsible for the retaliation.
They have either been promotedor been able to retire with
their careers intact, no lessretire with awards for how they
(35:33):
handled.
I mean I'm sure you read that inthe task and purpose article
the base commander, captainSpitzer, the guy that told
everyone hey, the water's safe,we're all still drinking it,
that guy left with, I think, alegion of merit the bullets in
there about how he handled thewater crisis and was able to
retire with his career intact.
Admiral Poparo, who was thePacific Fleet commander right,
(35:57):
senior Navy guy on island.
He's the one that did theinterview with Nora Roberts I
think that's her name, right,nora?
Anyways, about the state of theNavy just recently on 60
Minutes.
And that's him.
He was nominated by SecretaryAustin this year for the Chief
of Naval Operations, the mostsenior Navy position.
Now, that was not in, like, Ican't believe it, but President
(36:20):
Biden did not accept that butand so he picked the first, you
know, female at CNOM.
But I guess where AdmiralPaparo serves now.
He was not asked to leave theNavy.
He was protected from appearingin court.
He didn't have to testify incourt during trial.
You know where Admiral Paparosits today.
He's the commander ofIndo-Pacific Command Again, the
largest combatant command in themilitary.
(36:44):
Well, it has been, just you knowlike.
Here I am over two years laterjust waiting to see like does
the military agree?
I was retaliated against.
Can we talk about thosepromotions?
The fact that I left on acompassionate reassignment
without you know, for the firsttime in my entire career,
without a PCS award.
You know, no fault of my own,why I left the unit.
My family was extremely ill.
No award, no farewell, nogoodbye.
Larry Zilliox (37:05):
What recourse does your husband have as a
civilian?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (37:09):
So well we went to court.
The way that that whole thingworked out is which was another
whole like just stressful thing.
We'd obviously never been in atthat point, been involved with
the court system, certainlynever a lawsuit.
But the reason I've gone toCongress so many times is that
there is nothing in the law.
There is, there is no, there'snot a piece of legislation that
(37:30):
says you were poisoned by thegovernment, you were poisoned by
the military on American soil.
And we've got you.
We've got you covered.
We've got your medical, we'vegot your medical testing, we've
got your medical monitoring.
We're going to take care of you.
There's nothing Now for me.
I can go through the VA processand we'll you know.
But look how long that took.
(37:51):
Camp Legend took them over 30years.
And what's wild is the PACT Actwas signed right around the
time that Red Hill happened andthat just gives the folks of
Camp Lejeune an opportunity tofile suit.
That doesn't mean that I meanthe Lord knows when they'll see
a pretty much any restitutionfor every suit filed.
Larry Zilliox (38:18):
And I recently had a guest from the VFW, who we
talked about that the federalcourt down in that jurisdiction
is starting to get on the Navyand the Marine Corps and say
just settle these things, forgoodness sake.
You're wasting the court's timewith fighting every one of them
and hopefully there'll be somemovement on that.
Where do things on the islandstand now?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (38:42):
Well, we fought really hard, we made a
lot of noise.
Something interesting thathappened that was pretty
historic is that you know thepeople of Hawaii, especially
Native Hawaiians.
There is some animosity rightwith the military.
They don't, they are not veryreceptive of military folks.
Now, for the economy, there isa benefit, right Like we provide
a lot to the island when itcomes to that, but as far as us
(39:04):
being there taking over theirland, not well received, very
respectful of that.
But for the first time inprobably history, the people of
Hawaii and military familieslocked arms, stood in solidarity
and said no more, you don'tpoison your own people and not
take care of them, the peoplewho were given us clean water,
and still to this day.
Do you think it's the military?
(39:25):
No, it is the people of Hawaii.
It is, you know, nonprofitorganizations, the people of
Hawaii who are taking care ofmilitary families, which is
unheard of.
And likewise we are saying careof military families, which is
unheard of.
And likewise we are saying nomore.
Water is Hawaii's most preciousresource.
You have poisoned the soleclean water aquifer, not just
for the Navy drinking watersystem but for the entire island
(39:45):
of Oahu.
And so there were many ofcongressional trips, there were
many of meetings withcongressional leaders, there
were many rallies, there weremany protests.
There were many protests.
There were, you know, just alot of noise and Secretary
Alston made the decision in thespring of 2022 to say once and
(40:05):
for all we are going to shutdown Red Hill.
And today Red Hill is in theprocess of being shut down.
So the tanks have been drainedand phase one of that has
happened.
That concluded in the fall ofexcuse me, I think it just ended
like in January.
So it started in the fall, justended in January.
Now we're in phase two, whichis when they're venting the
(40:27):
tanks to get out the sludge andthe most toxic part that has
kind of lived in there fordecades.
Larry Zilliox (40:33):
Yep, it'll be interesting to see what they do
with that, where that will go.
Yeah, I hope for the sake ofthe people of Hawaii, whatever
is in there and gets taken outdoesn't get left somewhere on
that island.
They don't deserve that.
My guess is it'll probably endup in a hole in New Mexico
somewhere.
Well, at least there's somemovement to rectify things.
(40:56):
And between all the pressurethat you and the families have
brought to force the militaryinto action and the
congressional Well, and thelawsuit yeah, Lawsuit it's been.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (41:10):
You know it's not a major fine thing.
It has been a collective effortfrom military families military
, you know, active duty andspouses and the people of Hawaii
and you know the Oahu WaterProtectors and the Sierra Club
and people who have beenfighting this Board of Water
Supply there in Honolulu, whohave been fighting this for
decades, and we just built somemomentum and we all stood
(41:33):
together in solidarity and thatwas like the big, the monumental
thing.
And then there was thecongressional stuff and then I
guess the last layer would be,yeah, the lawsuit.
I mean there are severallawyers who have taken this on.
You know our legal team, justWell Law, has taken on over
7,500 clients who have filedsuit.
You know there are many of uswho, for years, who have tried
(41:55):
to file suit and, because of theFerris doctrine, have not been
able to.
But there are a group ofactivity service members who
have filed suit for Red Hill aswell.
The first lawsuit is in thefight name is in my husband and
my children's name.
We were part of that case.
We went to trial in May.
That was a very interesting Imean.
This has been two years in themaking.
It was a very interestingexperience.
It was extremely emotional.
(42:18):
We had met so many militaryfamilies but we'd all known each
other virtually, because a lotof us received compassionate
reassignments.
We were all over the world atthat point, different countries
and different states, and we metvirtually through FaceTime and
all the things.
The first time we met,ironically, was at the airport,
you know, heading into trial,which was just really bizarre.
(42:38):
But we've become this familyright.
We've gotten through thiscrisis together because we've
all experienced a lot of thesame symptoms and the same
heartache and the sameretaliation, and you know that
and the solidarity with thepeople of Hawaii have been like
the two good things that havecome out of this, I think.
But sitting in that trial andlistening to the DOJ and
(42:59):
listening to the Navy and Idon't know, I think I had this
false hope, if you will, thatwe'd get to court and they would
just kind of fall on theirsword and just be remorseful and
whatever it was that they coulddo to just, you know, close
this chapter for all of us.
But it was, it was ugly and itwas hard and it was hard to hear
.
You know, just a couple ofthings that stick out to me is
(43:21):
that there were bellwetherfamilies, there were several of
us, and a couple of commentsthat I remember is you know, the
DOJ said something along thelines of you know, you could be
exposed to this stuff Like it'sno different than like inhaling.
This is like inhaling, you know, gas at a gas station, or like
fueling up your lawnmower, andI'm thinking to myself.
(43:43):
My son has permanent lung damageand he's never, you know, put
gas in my car at a gas stationand he certainly never, you know
, fueled up a lawnmower.
In fact, you know, live in ahistoric housing.
We didn't even have a lawnmower because the lawn was taken
care of for us, you know.
So that might make sense forsomeone like me, you know, a 40
year old adult.
Larry Zilliox (44:02):
It doesn't make sense for anybody.
That's just some lawyernonsense.
And you got to see it firsthandthat it was just nonsense and
lies and cover up and everybodyblaming everybody else but
themselves.
And yeah, I'm not surprised atthat at all.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (44:22):
We talked a little bit too.
This was interesting.
So you know there are physicalinjuries that have been
sustained here, a lot of them,you know, from the vestibular
stuff that we've got.
You know a very dear friend ofmine who's been diagnosed now
with Parkinson's and we knowthat's related to fuel exposure.
We've had many women lose theirbabies.
There has been just a range ofphysical injuries that have
(44:44):
happened.
But as a parent, there is a lotof like mental health issues
that have come from this, fromstress and anxiety and
depression.
As a service member, I can tellyou both, you know, wearing two
hats, as both a mother and anactive due service member.
There has been this sense ofinstitutional betrayal and we
actually had a we, our legalteam, had a mental health
(45:06):
provider that came specificallyto talk about institutional
betrayal and that was thrown out.
And the reasoning why isbecause the DOJ or the, you know
, the judge, didn't need to hearabout that and it was compared
and this is I had to walk out ofcourt when I heard this, but
you know this was no differentthan anyone would be.
You know, feel betrayed if theywere poisoning their own
(45:28):
employer and it was said incourt.
This is no different than, youknow, working at McDonald's and
eating a bad cheeseburger.
And I thought to myself youknow, there's absolutely nothing
wrong with working atMcDonald's at all, but less than
1% of our country serves thiscountry and does risk their life
for this country.
And never in a million yearsdid I, you know, go downrange
(45:51):
and risk my life for thiscountry to think that I would
come back to American soil, tothink I'd come back and move my
family to quote unquote paradisefor my own employer to now
poison my children covered up,lie about it and think that they
can just get away with it.
And it's like eating a badcheeseburger, it's like, you
know, fueling up my gas tank.
(46:11):
It just and again, you know, hadI not met the people who have
gone through this at CampLejeune, you know that helped
but it still was like a run.
I mean that hurt.
It hit really deep.
For me, it cut very deep as aservice member to hear someone
just downplay it, thesignificance of what folks have
gone through and how hurtfulthis has been for people.
Yeah, it's been tough andthere's still no outcome.
(46:35):
You know we're still waiting ona decision.
You know thousands of people.
There are four different suits,I believe, that have been
brought, with thousands ofpeople in each of them and, just
like Camp Lejeune, there hasbeen nothing paid out.
And for us, especially as thelead plaintiffs for this, I just
want to make clear that for usit's really has never been about
(46:55):
the money.
But when you ask, like, whatrecourse is there for your
family?
Va benefits does not cover myhusband and it does not cover my
children, and so the onlyrecourse that civilians whether
they are civilian not affiliatedto the military, or civilians
like my husband and my childrentheir only option is to file a
(47:16):
lawsuit against their owngovernment.
And as a very patriotic family,like that's tough, that's a
really tough position to be in,but that was our only option,
because how else are we Godforbid when the inevitable
happens and my folks end up withsome of the cancers and some of
the major issues likeParkinson's and things that Camp
Lejeune has, because that's allwe have to look to, that is our
(47:38):
future and that's scary, sure.
How else would we be able toafford the best medical care?
Larry Zilliox (47:44):
Well, let's be honest here, they're the ones
that put you in that position,so I don't have any sympathy for
them.
I think that you know, takethem to the cleaners and you
know bank that money becauseyou're going to need it, for you
know, medical care here it'sgreat but it's super expensive,
(48:08):
and you know there are chancesof needing care for extended
periods of time.
For sure.
What would you, as we kind ofwrap things up here, what would
you like our listeners, what'sthe most important thing that
you would like our listeners toknow about this journey you've
(48:28):
been on and what happened to you?
Maj. Amanda Feindt (48:32):
Yeah, I think the number one thing is
just for folks to be informed,to know about it.
I mean, we got back here, backto the States and for over two
years.
I mean I just went to anappointment this morning and my
physician didn't even know aboutthe Red Hill water crisis, much
like many people didn't knowabout Camp Lejeune for 30 years,
(48:53):
and so I don't.
I want people to be informed.
I want medical providers toknow what Red Hill is.
I want folks to know that thishappened.
When we start talking aboutmental health and I believe that
this month is mental healthawareness and I think that the
DOD and the VA are actuallyhaving a mental health
conference this week as we speakI didn't have any sort of like
mental health issues.
(49:13):
I had never been diagnosedafter my deployment with like
PTSD.
The stress of this has been attimes like just unbearable the
mom guilt, the institutionalbetrayal.
You know incidents like thisfeeling, that sense of betrayal.
It cuts deep and it hurts andit changes everything and it is
life changing.
It is life changing.
So I want you know, I wantfolks to be informed, I want
(49:35):
medical providers to be informed, I want what I am looking for
out of this is is basic thingslike the congressional state.
From the congressionalstandpoint, you know, I do want
legislation eventually to bepassed that does say the
government poisons you, thegovernment is obligated to take
care of you.
That you don't have to fileFOIA requests to get test
results from the water in yourown home that you know I asked
(49:57):
for, I wanted to know, becauseyou know, for our treating
providers, I wanted them to knowexactly what my kids have been
exposed to, exactly what was inJP5, because it's not pure.
I wanted to know the additivesand the constituents and what
made up JP5.
And so I got a list, but therewere several things that said
trade secret.
But I probably will never knowwhat that additive or
constituent was, and I deserve,as a parent, to know what my
(50:21):
kids have ingested, and so dotheir treating providers.
They deserve to know that, andso we have a long way to go.
But the biggest thing, and thereason I'm so grateful for you
and any media outlet that has,you know, allowed me to use
their platform to share ourstory is just awareness.
Congressionally, we're trying todo many things.
(50:41):
That's one of them, you know.
Another thing that we've beentrying to push is something as
simple as this might knock youout of your chair is?
You know?
I've gone to Congress and askedmany times people laugh in my
face, but you know I asked forhazardous duty pay for the folks
who worked, those in this water, who worked in this environment
, who are part of the cleanup ofRed Hill.
It's a very dangerous task,it's a very toxic task and we
(51:05):
can't even get those soldiers,sailors, airmen, marines, like
hazardous duty pay, which is$150 a month.
You know I'm going off on atangent here, but I am a
personnelist and pay is part ofmy area of expertise in my lane
and I've said why aren't wepaying these people hazardous
duty pay?
And why that number, that $150matters is because $150 is how
(51:27):
much it costs a family of fourto be delivered an alternate
water source monthly in Hawaii.
I know that because we had analternate water source delivered
to us because we refused todrink the water again, and so I
think that folks are doing a Imean, there is the dodie that
you know Department of Defenseinstruction for pay, for special
pay out when there was aspecial section for jet fuel
(51:49):
exposure, and they are stillrefusing to pay these people and
I like why and I think it'sthat you would admit that this
stuff is toxic and harmful.
But people already know thatThousands of people were sick
during COVID, I was aparatrooper and I jumped out of
airplanes and I got paid $150 amonth because I was on hazardous
duty pay.
(52:10):
I was on hazardous duty ordersand so I got $150 a month and I
would jump once a quarter.
That was my only obligation.
During COVID, there was anexception to policy that DOD
granted that because we weren'tdoing airborne operations, there
was an exception to policy thatsays, even though we're not,
you know, meeting the minimumrequirements to get this pay,
you're still going to get your$150 a month.
People weren't doing, theyweren't jumping out of airplanes
(52:31):
, but they were still gettingpaid.
And we can't get people who areactually doing their jobs, who
are living on a contaminateddrinking water system, who are
working in a highly toxicenvironment.
They can't get them $100 amonth.
It just blows my mind.
And so there's a lot of thingstwo years later that we are
still working on, but thebiggest thing and I'll say it
again is just knowledge is powerand yeah, Arm yourself for sure
(52:55):
.
Larry Zilliox (52:55):
Yeah Well, listen , major, I can't thank you
enough for joining us.
It's very important to getthese stories out, and one of
the things I often think aboutis there's a lot of young people
who joined the military, andone of the things that I always
say to them is that when youjoin the military, it's going to
change your life.
To him is that when you jointhe military, it's going to
(53:17):
change your life hopefully forthe good, but maybe not but it's
going to change your life.
I can guarantee that and,unfortunately, in this
particular instance, it justwasn't for the good, and I thank
you so much for bringing thisto our attention and to being
willing to talk about it.
It's so important.
I really, really appreciate youcoming on.
Maj. Amanda Feindt (53:40):
Thank you so much.
Larry Zilliox (53:41):
So for our regular listeners, we'll have
another episode next Mondaymorning at 5 am.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
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