January 27, 2025 • 45 mins
What does it take to transition from high school to the Air Force and end up guarding nuclear weapons on a tropical island? Join me, Larry Zilliox, as I chat with Phil Massicotte, a retired law enforcement officer and Air Force veteran, who shares his unexpected journey to Guam after enlisting right out of high school. We reminisce about the strange mix of tropical storms, unforgettable characters, and the camaraderie that shaped our lives on this unique assignment. Phil’s stories provide a vivid snapshot of military life, from typhoon flights to quirky daily routines.
Meet the characters who filled our lives with humor and warmth, like Bear, the ex-Navy guy who never met a meal he couldn't conquer, and Lois, the flight engineer whose laughter was as infectious as her spirit. Together, Phil and I honor our comrades whose paths led to remarkable civilian careers, like Johnny Walker's venture into entrepreneurship and Ricky "Doc" Dockery’s journey to becoming a high school principal. We also reflect on the sobering responsibility of guarding nuclear weapons, sharing memories that resonate with a mix of pride and nostalgia.
Our conversation doesn't stop at military tales; it extends to the often challenging transition to civilian life. From the stark climate contrast between Guam and Albuquerque to transitioning to civilian life, Phil recounts the adaptability required in both military and civilian environments. We explore how the discipline and experiences gained in the Air Force have prepared us for diverse career paths, shedding light on personal anecdotes, humorous moments, and the continuous adventure of veteran life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guest is Phil Massicotte.
He's a retired law enforcementfrom Connecticut, veteran Air
Force veteran and famous forhaving been in Guam with me for
(00:25):
a year, able to stick it out forat least a year.
So I want to welcome Phil tothe podcast.
Well, thank you for having me.
Let's begin with when youjoined and why you joined.
Phil Massicotte (00:39):
I joined right out of high school.
I was 18 years old, actuallywent into basic training a month
after graduating high school.
There was no path for me forcollege.
I was raised by a single parentin the 60s, 70s, 15, nice, 14,
looking at military as well.
Everybody else was looking atcolleges and I kind of liked the
(01:09):
Air Force, so entered boot campin July of 1980.
That's exactly what I expectedFrom there.
Stayed in Texas and went to thetechnical training for security
specialists, finished that thatwas pretty much what I expected
as well.
Came home for leave and that'swhen my career started.
I mean, I got my assignment.
(01:31):
I'll never forget being at bootcamp.
They had a big map on the wallof all the bases around the
world and I saw this littleisland out there and I said, wow
, look at that.
I feel bad for the guy who'sgonna get a side on Guam.
And I didn't know.
I said I put it for all thesecoast bases.
(01:51):
I just figured that's where Iwas gonna go.
Well, no, you go with.
A mission requires you to go,sir.
And guess who got Guam?
Yeah, you know what?
It turned out to be the bestthing that ever happened.
Larry Zilliox (02:02):
Air, air Force needs to come first.
Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely Ilearned that quickly.
Did you go to air base grounddefense at Camp Bowes?
Phil Massicotte (02:11):
No, I didn't do that.
No, I didn't get selected forthat.
They weren't doing everybody.
So, no, I never did.
I wanted to.
That was another 19 weeks, Ibelieve.
Larry Zilliox (02:20):
Yeah, it was a good while.
Yeah, and it it was not badwhen I was there because it was
sort of the fall, so it wasn'tlike the crazy hot of oh, yeah,
that was in july.
Phil Massicotte (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was in august.
It was terrible, you know, somedays we didn't even march, it
was so hot, you know.
Yeah, it was so bad.
Yeah, that was.
You know guam was something bad.
Yeah, that was.
You know Guam was somethingelse.
Man, that changed.
That was such a surrealexperience from the word go.
So, you know, that was my firstassignment, you know, and I was
(02:54):
excited about it.
We spent the whole flight fromCalifornia to Guam 14 hours yeah
, trying to outrun a typhoonthere was a typhoon on the way.
Larry Zilliox (03:07):
Did you come over on commercial aircraft?
Phil Massicotte (03:10):
Yeah, pan Am yeah wow.
Back when Pan Am yeah, 747.
Wow, yeah.
And then I get there and ofcourse you know I'm thinking
everything's supposed to work asplanned.
You know you get a sponsor andmine was Simmons I don't
remember Simmons?
I don't I don't, I don'tremember that His nickname was
(03:31):
big.
Was he on our flight?
Was he on D?
He was on our flight, big, talllike six foot four.
Oh, african-american, you don'tremember him?
No, I don't.
Wow, yeah, we call him GeneSimmons sometimes.
Yeah, he was supposed to meetme there.
Of course he didn't meet methere.
I take a cab in, and I take acab in with this other guy, troy
(03:52):
, who's on the law enforcementside, and we get to the base.
We get in, they give us a dormroom and we're standing on the
second balcony of the dormlooking at this typhoon coming
like going.
What the hell are we supposedto do?
And just then the bus, themidnight shift bus, came in with
the flight you were on?
(04:12):
yeah, delta flight yeah becauseyou guys are just getting off
duty from the third shift andthe whole flight came up the
stairs fully armed, everything.
Came up the stairs and weturned around and you were the
first one up and you came up tous and said you guys know, and
like yeah, all right, all right.
And he talked to us for a fewminutes.
Other guys were coming up andgiving us the stink eye, you
(04:34):
know, cause we were new, youknow, and then I learned the
term Jeep.
Then too, you know, which isjust enough experience to
perform.
So, these, yeah.
So a couple guys came in what'sup Jeep.
I didn't even know what theheck that was, but it was funny.
Larry Zilliox (04:52):
So I don't know if you remember Kato, sure he's
on my list and let's go throughthis list to help our listeners
understand who we're talkingabout.
I'm just going to throw somenames out and kind of give you
an update of kind of where theyare.
I'm just going to throw somenames out and kind of give you
an update of kind of where theyare.
I'd start with JW, which wasJohnny.
Walker, was my roommate andJohnny got out after, I think,
(05:15):
four years in the Air Force andjoined the Coast Guard and was
stationed down in the Tidewaterarea and then got out of the
Coast Guard, started his ownelectrical company running good,
the PAG.
Paganelli he was my roommate,yeah, got out after four years
(05:36):
and today is a commander for theCleveland Clinic Police
Department.
Ski and Liz Ski they had a roomnext to me and Johnny for a
while but then Ski got married,liz was law enforcement and
Steve Paczynski he got out andwas working for the power
(05:58):
company in North Carolina isretired now.
And Liz you just never knowwhat Liz is doing.
She's an artist, she's alwaysgot something going.
Bob and Brenda Bob and BrendaBlonigan Brenda was law
enforcement, bob worked with ussecurity and he eventually
(06:19):
became a New Hampshire statepolice officer was also in the
reserve.
Brenda was a detective for thePortsmouth County New Hampshire
Police.
They're both retired now andactually we all went.
The last time we all gottogether there was a bunch of us
was up in New Hampshire forBob's retirement from the Air
(06:43):
Force Reserve and when he hitGuam he was an airman maybe
airman, basic airman right.
Phil Massicotte (06:50):
I think Airman first class, I think.
Larry Zilliox (06:54):
Yeah, and then he retired as a full bird colonel
in the reserve.
Yeah, it was amazing AliceAlice was law enforcement,
worked on D-Flight lawenforcement.
She got out and is a nurse downat a VA hospital down, I think,
in Louisiana.
Ann also Ann Warren lawenforcement with us D-Flight.
(07:18):
She retired, worked for the VAand retired now and volunteers
for the Red Cross.
Lives in Albuquerque, newMexico, near Albuquerque.
Chris Case Chris was myroommate for a while.
Bear Ex-Navy guy Wanted to goin to be a Navy SEAL but blew
his knees out and buds Got outof the Navy and joined the Air
(07:42):
Force.
Phil Massicotte (07:43):
What a character he was boy, funny guy.
Larry Zilliox (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, and you never wanted to get between
him and food.
Phil Massicotte (07:51):
No, he was the only person I know that would
stack two or three slices ofpizza together and eat them like
as a stack, like a handful ofpotato chips or a sandwich.
Larry Zilliox (08:01):
yeah, so we'd all get off work and take the bus
back to the dorm and you'd go upto your room and put your stuff
away and then you'd maybe headover to the child hall for
midnight meal.
And he never he never made itto his room, man.
He just dragged all his stuffover to.
He couldn't wait to get tomidnight meal.
(08:23):
Unfortunately, he passed away anumber of years ago His wife
called me and said he had somehealth issues.
He's no longer with us, lois,he's underwater diving.
Yeah, yeah, lois wasn't part ofour unit or squadron or
(08:43):
anything like that.
She was a female flightengineer on a C-141 and coming
out of Travis and every time shehit Guam she'd stop in to see
us.
I think we met her at the cluband she was a hoot.
We had a lot of fun with her.
Yeah, she was funny, she wasfunny.
Phil Massicotte (09:03):
Doc Ricky Dockery yeah, fun, yeah, she was
funny, she was funny doc, uh,ricky doc, yeah, was uh, he
worked, uh, he works uh cdcright yeah, yeah, he was in the
not cdc.
Yeah, but it was small centralsecurity control, csc.
Larry Zilliox (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, he.
Uh, he got out and became aprincipal, high high school
principal.
He's retired now.
Tim Levy was one of.
He was just a great guy.
He was still in.
He probably would have made ita career.
He was stationed in New Jerseybut unfortunately he was killed
in a boating accident.
Well, he was at Fort or not Dix, but whatever the Air Force
(09:45):
base is in New.
Phil Massicotte (09:45):
Jersey McGuire, mcguire, mcguire yeah.
We went down to see him, yeah,me and Peg.
Larry Zilliox (09:52):
Yeah, had a good time Bill.
Phil Massicotte (09:55):
Southard.
Larry Zilliox (09:56):
Southard's still running around out there
somewhere.
I see him on Facebook everyonce in a while.
Ronnie Ard yeah, shake and bake.
He had a voice.
He was fun.
He had a voice.
Yeah, he sure did.
It sounded like the commercial.
That's why we called him shakeand bake.
That's all.
I forgot that.
I forgot that.
Yeah, so we had a flight of howmany on DeFi.
(10:21):
Was it like 30?
Maybe?
Yeah, 30 or 40, maybe?
Yeah, it like 30?
Maybe 30 or 40.
, yeah, maybe, yeah, you know,oh, you know.
Another one I'm thinking of issoup Steve soup.
Phil Massicotte (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, he he boy, he was good comic
release he had.
Larry Zilliox (10:39):
He was canine handler for law enforcement.
He was on deflight with us andum he was on D flight with us
and he always had trouble withhis dogs.
I remember one time his dog wasStupid dog yeah.
I heard just yelling.
We were clearing M-16s and theclearing buckets were on the
(11:00):
side of the building at CentralSecurity Control where the
armory was.
And I heard him out backyelling and, like his dog, his
dog was just sitting therelooking at him like a dumb
knucklehead and he had hispistol out and he was
threatening his dog with it.
And I'm like man, you got toput your gun away.
(11:24):
Man, you can't be waving yourgun around.
He's ready to shoot it, dog.
Phil Massicotte (11:29):
He was crazy.
Yeah yeah, I got pictures ofhim when we came back from the
Fiesta and he had to ride in thetrunk of the car.
Larry Zilliox (11:36):
I was just going to say that he was the first to
jump in the trunk.
Phil Massicotte (11:39):
Yeah, yeah, we drove like I don't know how many
miles back to base with him inthe trunk.
Larry Zilliox (11:44):
Well, you know everybody, everybody was loaded.
So so we had, uh, we were therein Guam and our mission, we
were part of SAC and it was, uh,it was, we were guarding
believe it or not nuclearweapons.
Yeah, Priority.
Phil Massicotte (12:02):
That was what was surreal.
That was what was surreal aboutthe whole thing to me, because
you know you're going throughthe training and everything and
you have an idea, but when youget there you're like wow.
Larry Zilliox (12:12):
Yeah, that's a B-52 that has nukes on it.
Phil Massicotte (12:15):
That's a B-52 with nukes on it, yeah, yeah,
and I got gotta walk around andguard it.
Larry Zilliox (12:23):
Yeah, you know, it was really something, yeah,
but the uh the mystique wore offfairly quickly when it was
raining.
Phil Massicotte (12:27):
Oh my god oh, no, kidding, we had those cans.
Remember the cans?
Sure, that's what I couldn'tunderstand when you guys are
getting off the bus andeverybody had a can and me and
troy got a can of rumen with,like what are these guys
carrying cans for?
These od green pans they were,couldn't figure it out.
Larry Zilliox (12:45):
They were dog food cans that we had got, yeah,
from, uh, the canine folks, andbasically it had a lid on it
and put your gas mask in it.
You put all your stuff in itand you kept it dry, and it was
also something to sit on whenyou're out nowhere.
That was great.
Yeah, everybody always had tohave the can with us.
(13:06):
Yeah, you did.
Yeah, you'd see a bunch of guyssitting around outside CSC
sitting on their cans justwaiting for your mount.
Phil Massicotte (13:16):
Yeah, yeah, I think you stood on your can,
didn't you?
When you gave your last gardenmount.
Larry Zilliox (13:22):
Well, I had to make sure everybody could see me
.
So when did you get to Guam?
Phil Massicotte (13:31):
So I got to Guam in November of 1980.
How?
Larry Zilliox (13:35):
long were you there?
Phil Massicotte (13:37):
And I was there until, like March of 81, my 82,
82.
Wow, so you were there almosttwo years yeah, yeah, pretty
much it was february or march,not sure.
Then I went from there to, uh,albuquerque, kirtland, yeah,
albuquerque, you, that wassomething else.
You, yeah, you followed by you.
Larry Zilliox (13:58):
Yeah, ski went down.
I'm not sure why they sent usall there.
I don't know.
For God's sake and place, Ididn't know.
Phil Massicotte (14:06):
That's something else huh, I did not
enjoy that place either.
Yeah, and the stuff I saw atthe ECP I worked the entry
control point, all kinds ofstuff coming in and out of there
.
You know I knew it wasn't goodthere.
You know I knew it wasn't good.
You know you have the sandianational labs come through there
and you're certain you have tosearch their vehicle when you
stick your head in there and theguy says hey, don't hold your
(14:26):
head back there too long.
You know.
You know I'm like wow, what arewe looking at here?
You know, but there's all kindsof bizarre stuff went up in
there, I know decommissioned nowI guess, yeah, well, I, I guess
they put this storage area outin the desert.
Larry Zilliox (14:43):
Yeah, yeah, so I, yeah, I remember I was in Guam
three years, two months, 18 days, 10 hours and 32 minutes, yeah,
and so I kind of was there forthe duration, do you?
Phil Massicotte (14:57):
remember the morning?
Yeah, you were there a while.
You the duration.
Do you remember the morning?
Larry Zilliox (15:01):
Yeah, you were there a while you put in for an
extension, right, and you gotapproved.
Well, yeah, the problem was Iran up against my four-year
enlistment was ending and I wentto a briefing and this guy at
HR says, look, you know you'regoing to get out, but you're
going to be in the reserves.
Technically, you'll be in thereserves for two years and if
something happens, they can callyou back.
(15:22):
And I said, well, can I extend?
And then I'm not going to, theycan't call me back.
No reserve commitment.
Yeah, and that's what I did.
I said I'll extend two yearsand then I'm done, you'll never
see me again.
Yeah, so, yeah, I did.
So.
I was there much longer andthen I think I only did about
(15:42):
eight or nine months in inAlbuquerque.
And the thing I hated mostabout Albuquerque is coming out
of Guam, and I'm sure youexperienced the same thing.
I got to Albuquerque and aboutfroze my ass off.
Phil Massicotte (15:54):
Um, oh yeah, it was cold, it was cold there and
we just weren't ready for it Inthe winter.
Yeah, no, no, we haven't seen.
You know, it was kind of likeFlorida weather.
You know, in Guam it's not veryhumid.
Larry Zilliox (16:09):
You could always count on Guam being a 10-degree
difference.
So if it's 85 in the daytime,it's 75 at night.
Whatever it is, it's the sameevery day, every day, and then
sometimes during it is, it's thesame every day, and then
sometimes during the day it'sgoing to rain on you, they would
issue us these ponchos thatthey'd say, oh yeah, here, put
(16:31):
the poncho on.
You know, you're sure you'vegot to stand out the rain, but
you'll have the poncho.
You put this poncho on andyou'd sweat to death so much
You'd be just as much as wet asif it You'd cook in there.
Yeah, if it rained on you.
So you just stopped carryingthe thing.
You just stood out there in therain, got wet and then you just
dried off.
Phil Massicotte (16:49):
After an hour or so it was really something
that was the only thing about.
Out there in the deserts in NewMexico you can hold, you know,
in the middle of a shift whenit's hot, you, in the middle of
a shift when it's hot, you cantrench yourself with the hose
and it would be dry in less than20 minutes.
You're totally dry.
Yeah, and Guam was just Guam.
Remember the Guam rot?
It was just so humid there, noteverything, it was just like
(17:14):
you felt sticky all the time.
You just couldn't sleep well,but you know what it was the
off-duty.
Yeah, you know it was just, butyou know what it was the
off-duty stuff that made it allgreat.
You know, we had some good,good times there in Guam.
Larry Zilliox (17:28):
Yeah, and right on base they have a beautiful
beach called Taragi Beach.
It was a lot of, we spent a lotof time down there.
Yeah, that's where the rangewas too.
Yeah, the range was right downon the beach too, and that's
where the range was too.
Yeah, yeah, the range was rightdown on the beach too, and
that's where eod range was too.
You could see him, yeah,setting off those big 500 pound
bombs.
For some reason, I don't knowwhy, I guess they just decided
(17:50):
the old ordinance from world warii or something.
Phil Massicotte (17:52):
You know, yeah, yeah, sometimes, but uh, yeah,
we were just, uh, it wassomething, and that you know,
the first day we were there onthat balcony you ended up coming
back.
I didn't know it was you.
You ended up coming back in aflight suit yeah, pilot's flight
suit, and colonel wings on yourshoulders and your OD green
(18:13):
ball cap and you had like aseven-inch long 50-ring cigar
hanging out of your mouth.
Larry Zilliox (18:21):
I was getting ready to play poker.
That was sort of that jacketwhen I saw it.
Phil Massicotte (18:25):
Yeah, I didn't know.
We didn't know what the dealwas because I didn't see any
rank on your jungles.
When you came up and Troy'slike, is this a real colonel?
I go, I don't know, that's adude.
That came up and then with you,I didn't know we didn, and then
with you, I didn't know whetherto salute or stand at attention
, so we did some half-assedthing and then you just started
talking like a regular guy.
I go, all right, he's doingthis as a goof.
(18:47):
I guess, that's what younormally dressed.
Yeah, that was your.
Larry Zilliox (18:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was my poker-playing outfit.
You know, somebody else Iforgot to is Kato.
Yeah, you know, he was aFilipino and he always had his
nunchucks and was doing crazystuff and you know he retired
from immigration.
He was working in California.
(19:14):
Oh, he went to immigration.
Yeah, he went to immigration.
Oh, no, kidding Law enforcement.
Oh, good for him.
Phil Massicotte (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, remember him doing his.
He had his nunchucksucks.
Larry Zilliox (19:21):
He was on top of the bus doing his nunchucks yeah
, johnny going through hisjohnny collie jumped off the
third floor.
Phil Massicotte (19:28):
Yeah as that other idiot jumped off the
second floor.
Yeah, because somebody calledhim a, you know, uh puss, that's
why.
But yeah, and then he got itwas crazy bunch of characters,
man really well, I know, butthey were just fun and laid back
and they made it all worthwhilewe had a good time.
We had a lot of good time.
But you know, I'm just goingthrough my head, but I can go
(19:50):
through stories.
Larry Zilliox (19:51):
Man, oh my God, we have some stories I mean most
of those we don't want to share.
Phil Massicotte (19:57):
No, we don't want to share.
But it was, you know, that setme going.
And when that kind of wore off,like you said, the excitement
of it all kind of wore off and Iwas ready for another
assignment.
And that's when I went toManzano, yeah, to Albuquerque,
and he followed after that, andthen I ended up three years
(20:18):
there.
And then I ended up going up toNorthern Maine, at Loring,
where you started, yeah, goingfrom the deserts in New Mexico
to the frozen tundra of northernMaine.
But I wanted to be close tohome.
I did three years up there.
It's not close to home, yeah,with Angela too.
Well, it was driving distance.
It was like an eight toten-hour drive to Connecticut.
(20:40):
And you know, you got to gothrough a selection.
I knew I was getting out, I knewI wasn't going to drag the kids
around the world.
You know, stopping at differentbases, three years here, four
years there, and I can't evenlearn to develop relationships.
You know that's what I wasworried about, yeah.
So I went to plan routes.
It was time to get out, stilldone, thinking about me, and I
(21:01):
said yeah.
So I ended up in the processwith the state, I got hired and
then I got out in March of 88.
After almost eight years.
I got out on a manpowerreduction thing and I took it,
yeah.
And so like a couple of weeksafter that I was, you know,
working for the state, going tothe police academy.
And then, once I got out of thepolice academy that's when I
(21:21):
started my career.
I started at Whiting Forensicand then went to Central
Investigations and thecommissioner's office and did
that for a while and Isupervised it and I went to
support operations as alieutenant in support operations
, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (21:35):
Back up a little bit here.
So Whiting Forensic Institute.
For all you listeners out therewho aren't familiar with
Connecticut facilities, it's aloony bin for criminally insane
people Maximum security,criminally insane individuals.
Phil Massicotte (21:51):
Yeah, you need to come in for court evaluations
.
They got an open case andthey're coming in to be
evaluated for competency andthings like that.
So basically it was a prison.
Yeah yeah, I worked for thestate but I was a police officer
at the famous Department ofMental Health and Addiction
Services.
So we were responsible for thestate police and security
services at the six differentmajor facilities in Bridgeport
(22:14):
even Hartford, newington andMiddletown.
Larry Zilliox (22:18):
How did you find your transition?
I mean what I mean you, you,you got employed really quickly.
Phil Massicotte (22:26):
Yeah, you know, I it was.
Then again I went to from themilitary into a paramilitary
kind of environment.
So my transition was kind ofeasy, going from the air force
into that right out of there acouple of weeks like I was on
leave.
Then you know, now you're inacademy and they're yelling and
screaming at you again and allthat stuff you know, and they're
(22:46):
going through the training andI thought, yeah, but yeah, I
ended up doing a lot ofinvestigations, you know
statewide and centralinvestigations, and I ended up
supervising it and thencommanding it and then I went up
to captain in field operationsfor my last couple of years, I
supervising it, then commandingit, and then I went up to
captain in field operations formy last couple of years.
Larry Zilliox (23:04):
I've been retired since 2013.
Yeah, was there ever a thoughtof doing something else, or were
you just always going tothinking you were going to go
into law enforcement?
Phil Massicotte (23:12):
Yeah, I knew I was going to probably go into
law enforcement.
The transition that was reallydifficult for me.
After all that my militarycareer, going into my law
enforcement career is kind of asmooth transition.
But once I retired in 2013, Iwent from overseeing 130 people
to overseeing my dog.
You know, I had noresponsibilities.
(23:34):
Really, you know, that was thetoughest transition and I think
I probably experienced withcombat not necessarily combat
veterans, veterans who've beenaround for a 20-year career I
probably experienced the samething, sure, and most of them do
.
You know I just became a littlelost, you know, started
(23:55):
suffering from depression andall that.
Larry Zilliox (23:57):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (23:58):
Trying to find my groove, you know so, yeah, so
I went from that to a you knowfull-time that yeah, trying to
find my groove, you know so,yeah.
So I went from that to a youknow a full-time grandpa you
know which is timing was perfect, because my kids just had their
kids and I was available, so,but it was a totally different.
That was the struggle.
And there was a struggle, Ithink, probably similar to life.
You know, lifers in themilitary, yeah, but you know you
(24:18):
push through it and you findyour way and you're okay.
Larry Zilliox (24:21):
you know, Did you make a VA claim for any kind of
services?
Phil Massicotte (24:26):
No, I didn't.
No, I should have.
I know it's a long process.
I should have.
I got tinnitus too.
I didn't put in for thetinnitus, that's a presumptive
condition, but I was in, I thinkthat was a certain time frame.
No, but I haven't used veteranservices, I have to say, for
(24:46):
anything like that.
Larry Zilliox (24:47):
You got a plan from the state, though you got a
retirement thing from the stateright.
Phil Massicotte (24:51):
Yeah, I got a pension and I got full
retirement, full medical, yeah,yeah, so I'm lucky.
And your wife is so muchyounger than you.
Is she still working?
She's still working.
Yes, yeah, well.
Larry Zilliox (24:57):
I'm lucky and your wife is so much younger
than you.
Is she still working?
Phil Massicotte (25:02):
She's still working.
Larry Zilliox (25:03):
yes, yeah well, you know.
Phil Massicotte (25:04):
Yeah, she'd rather be at work.
I think sometimes you know shecan't.
Larry Zilliox (25:08):
She's probably the youngest grandma in
Connecticut, I would think.
Phil Massicotte (25:16):
Yeah, I don't know about that.
But she looks very young for herage, that's for sure she does.
Oh my goodness.
Well, we used to go to thisdiner on a regular.
Every weekend We'd go to thesame diner.
We knew this waitress for like10 years.
She knows by name, she knew ourgrandkids and this and that and
after 10 years she thought Iwas Angela's father.
(25:38):
She didn't think the whole timeAll those years she thought I
was Angela's father.
The whole time all those yearsshe thought I was her father,
not her husband.
I wish I knew that I wouldn'thave gave you a tip.
Yeah, I'm a lucky man.
Larry Zilliox (25:54):
Yeah, she never came to Guam with you, did she?
Phil Massicotte (25:59):
No, she never came to Guam.
She came to New Mexico.
She came, came to Guam with youdid she?
Larry Zilliox (26:01):
No, she never came to Guam, I remember.
Phil Massicotte (26:02):
She came to New Mexico.
Larry Zilliox (26:03):
She came out to New Mexico.
Oh, that's where you guys gotmarried.
I remember we got married.
Yeah, you remember.
There we came for the wedding.
What a wedding that was.
Yes, you did In the judge'schambers.
Phil Massicotte (26:13):
Bertolino County.
Yeah, Bertolino County Courthyes.
Larry Zilliox (26:18):
And I remember I don't know.
You know, when you're younglike that, you're just stupid.
And I'm getting sent to PCSfrom Guam to Albuquerque and
like three weeks before thatyou're going to get married.
And I said oh, all right, well,let me get a, let me hop over
there from Guam to Travis, letme hop over there from Guam to
(26:42):
Travis.
I'll stay with Lois and thenI'll fly down to Albuquerque and
go to this 20-minute weddingand then fly back, have Lois
pick me up in the Air Force andthen hop back to Guam.
And I remember that veryclearly because I was really
close to being AWOL because Icouldn't get a flight.
(27:04):
I couldn't get a flight andthen all of a sudden, a flight
comes up on a C5 and the guysays to me he says here's the
deal, though this is a straightdirect flight from Travis to
Guam, not stopping in Hawaii,and it has an in-flight
refueling.
Are you okay with that?
(27:25):
And I'm like, well, yeah,because I'm going to get back
and I won't be AWOL.
Of course I'm okay with that.
And that was a long flight, man.
Oh yeah, that was really long,you know, like 14 hours or
something like that.
It was ridiculous.
But at least you know at leastyou weren't in troop seats like
you were when you were on aC-130.
Phil Massicotte (27:46):
But yeah, I took a C-135.
I took a hop from Guam toTravis on a C-135.
And yeah, and the jump seats,they were falling stuff too.
And yeah, I had myshort-sleeved shirts on, I
didn't know, you know.
And yeah, I had my short sleeveshirts on, I didn't know.
Once we got up there, man,everybody was throwing on their
jackets and I'm like they'relooking at me like I'm an idiot,
which I was.
(28:07):
You got your Hawaiian shirt on,I'm going on a vacay.
We got up there it froze, but Idid get to see some mid-air
refueling, to lay down next tothe boom operator and see all
that.
But yeah, other than that, youknow you're sitting in your jump
seat, the jump seats are allall full of people and you know
and you're trying to beeverybody's got their book or
whatever.
(28:27):
Didn't have phones back then,that stuff, you know so.
Or you went to sleep and Iremember falling asleep and
waking up and everybody you knowwas all laying on top of each
other.
You know they got strangerslaying on your shoulder and it
was just so terrible, but it was$10, you know, yeah, and they
give you a box lunch, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (28:47):
Space available.
Yeah, it's a lot differenttoday.
A lot different today, yeah,huh, oh, my goodness, can't get
hops anymore.
Yeah, well, you know, that wasthe greatest thing, man, that
that was the greatest thing.
Yeah, it was cheap and we saweverything coming in and out of
Guam so you could get a flight,no problem.
You know, oh, yeah, yeah if youwanted to go and then I
remember I don't know if youever took a Typhoonavac, but I
(29:14):
took a Typhoonavac out of Guamwith PAG.
Phil Massicotte (29:16):
Yeah, no, I never got the opportunity.
There was one and it filled upand I never got the opportunity
to go.
Larry Zilliox (29:21):
Yeah, we went to Okinawa.
What a crazy place that was.
Yeah, did you have to do12-hour shifts or something like
that?
No, you got there and all thebombers were empty, you know.
And so they went from PriorityA to Priority C.
They already had a full flightof guys there working the flight
line and securing everything.
So most of the time you had thenight off.
(29:43):
And I remember pag and I hookedup with a guy on their flight
there who spoke japanese.
His parents were mercenariesand so we went downtown drinking
with him and it was crazybecause he spoke the language.
Phil Massicotte (29:57):
And wow, man, yeah it was right, it was crazy,
that's that's no, I never gotthe opportunity.
I did go tdy to hawaii yeah and, uh, what was great about that?
I went there, I went, I went tothe hospital there, I was there
for three days and I went backto flight operations with my
(30:17):
orders.
And the guy looks at me and hegoes uh, you can't leave today.
I go when can I get out?
He goes well, your orders sayyou can only take a strategic
air command aircraft and wedon't have one coming in for 10
days.
So go have a couple of Mai Tais, because I hang around for
another 10 days in Hawaii whilewaiting for a flight.
Larry Zilliox (30:39):
Oh man, yeah, so the Air Force was kind of crazy
back then.
I hope they got it togethermore.
Phil Massicotte (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, I hope they got it together more
now.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'tknow.
I think they probably do.
It's a totally different setupthan when we were all together,
you know, with the securityforces and everything.
Larry Zilliox (30:58):
Yeah, A lot has changed and I'm sure it's for
the people.
Phil Massicotte (31:01):
A lot has changed and back then in the 80s
we were looking for Ivan tocross the wire.
You know, remember Ivan?
Yeah, it was the Russians, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (31:10):
They were going to invade Guam.
We had to be alert.
Yeah, it was kind of ridiculous.
Phil Massicotte (31:15):
It was something else, and my first
time being around nuclearweapons it was just like yeah, I
don't know, I I don't know, Iforget who I was riding with.
It was Kevin.
It was this guy named Kevin, Ithink.
Larry Zilliox (31:25):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (31:26):
I can't remember who he was, but I was
riding with him.
Kevin Austin, yes, kevin Austin, yes, yes, yes, and I remember
they were loading it up for aconvoy and I'm looking at these
things.
I must have been in the daze orsomething, because he came over
to me and he says he goes,don't worry.
Worry, if anything happens, youwon't fail a thing.
Okay, that's reassuring.
(31:49):
Yeah, very good.
Larry Zilliox (31:51):
You should just be incinerated in a tenth of a
second.
Phil Massicotte (31:54):
Yeah, it's ridiculous my military career.
I'm very happy with how mymilitary career was.
A lot of frustration though.
Larry Zilliox (32:02):
Yeah, yeah, but a lot of fun A lot of fun, a lot
of good people, the tribefrustration though, yeah, yeah,
but a lot of fun, a lot of fun,a lot of good people, the tribe.
Phil Massicotte (32:10):
We're still in touch with so many of them, you
know, yeah, and all the peoplethat I'm in touch with other
than, uh, john dylan, yeah, andin new mexico, yeah, it's just
people from guam.
It was just a special bondthere, you know.
It was just, it was somethingelse.
You know, everybody just cametogether for each other yeah,
yeah, you know and I rememberthe first sergeant when I, it
was just, it was something else,you know, everybody just came
together for each other.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
And I remember the firstsergeant when I it was time for
(32:30):
me to get my through my training, but now it's time for me to
hit the flight line.
I go to the first sergeant.
He was assigning shifts and Ihad already been like on this in
the same dorm and and everybodyon D flight was on my floor
down below.
So I said to him I said he goes, oh, where are we going to put
Airman Massacott, let's see.
(32:51):
And I go, I'd like to go toD-Flight.
And he looks at me and he goesdog flight.
And I said, yeah, I liked iteven more when he said that.
I said, yeah, I want to go todog flight.
And just a blast, it was justgreat.
It really was something else.
Larry Zilliox (33:08):
The only downside to it, really and I love Guam,
I learned your scuba dive therebut the only downside to it is
when I look back at my six yearswhen you worked the way we did.
You were on three swing shiftsfour to midnight yeah, it was
brutal.
Then you had 24 hours off.
Then you worked three swingshifts four to midnight yeah, it
was brutal.
Then you had 24 hours off.
Then you worked three mids,which was midnight to eight, and
(33:30):
then you had three days off andfor six years I was sleeping
Every three days I was sleepingat a different time.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Sleep cycles were all screwedup and today I still suffer from
insomniaomnia and it's justterrible.
That's.
That's the one thing.
If I recommend anything toyoung guys in the air force if
(33:52):
you're, if you're working in ajob where there's swing shifts
and that kind of thing, doeverything you can to get on
days, yeah Well every base Iwent to the first.
Phil Massicotte (34:02):
my first order of business was to try to get on
a day shift.
Yeah, you know I was done withthat stuff.
But then base I went to myfirst order of business was to
try to get on a day shift.
Yeah, you know I was done withthat stuff, but then when I went
into luring I ended up back inthat cycle.
Larry Zilliox (34:12):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (34:12):
For a year or so and then I ended up getting
on day shift and then when Ileft the military and I went to
work with the state, my shiftswere midnight to noon, two on,
two off.
Oh, wow, you know, yeah.
And so I went right into shipwork and that's when I really
started hating it.
So that's when I looked atgetting promoted and getting
(34:34):
some kind of investigative joband moving up the ladder because
I was guaranteed autonomy andyou know, the freedom.
Yeah, because eventually I had,you know, when I was Lieutenant
and Captain, I ended up havingstatewide responsibilities.
So it kept it, you know, itkept it not exciting, but it
kept it fresh.
Every day, busy Every day, yeah,busy.
(34:55):
You know I was doing lawsuit, alot of lawsuit, investigations
up there in the office ofcommissioner.
Yeah, so I would be.
I'd get a case, you know, apatient suing a treatment team
for abuse or whatever.
I'd have to make, you know,investigate it and file a
position paper for thecommissioner to send to the
attorney general's office.
(35:15):
So it was like an attorney'sworking product.
So that was, that was prettyinteresting.
Yeah, never ending never endingwork, though Never ending, never
ending.
And then left and I thought youknow they're not going to
survive without me, kind ofthing.
Oh yeah, who are they going tobring in?
They didn't even have me trainanybody to take my position.
Larry Zilliox (35:35):
It didn't matter, Life went on Kidding A monkey
could do that job.
What are?
Phil Massicotte (35:39):
you talking about?
Larry Zilliox (35:40):
Exactly, of course, of course, have a nice
retirement, we'll find somebodyto fill in.
Phil Massicotte (35:47):
Right.
Well, you know what?
I wouldn't have made the rank Imade in civilian sector had I
not gone through that experience.
It was seven years eight monthsin the military.
Really, when I brought that tothe table on our boards and
promotional boards and stufflike that, it really made a
difference.
It really did.
They were impressed with what Idid, especially when I went and
(36:10):
I got hired and I ate my firstassignment to lieutenant the
commanding officer at WhiteyForensic.
So they were really impressedwith that kind of background.
Anybody with military.
Larry Zilliox (36:21):
Military experience.
They can count on veterans,that's for sure, yeah.
Phil Massicotte (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, you , you know, and they got a.
You know I had all thosemilitary, uh um, mindset, even
though you know we joke aboutthe air force, but you know it,
we still had that mindset and Ibrought it to the, to that
environment, you know, and itkind of it kind of yeah, i't
know kind of like spread toother officers you know who were
like stuck in a rut, yeah, andyou get a couple of new guys who
(36:50):
have some you know pep in theirstep.
Larry Zilliox (36:53):
Yeah, you know, I think it was always lost on us
what the job we had and theresponsibility that we had, not
only in guarding these weapons,but they sent us to work with a
crazy amount of lethal force.
Oh yeah, we went to work withan M60 machine gun and 203
(37:19):
grenade launchers and justridiculous stuff, yeah, and the
area that we guarded was rightnext to the housing area and I'm
like, are we going to unleashthis on somebody?
Yeah, and it's going todevastate the housing area and I
could never get my head aroundthat.
But you know, yeah, the 15 and5s.
Phil Massicotte (37:43):
you know the helping hand, broken arrows and
all that stuff.
Yeah, we had a tons.
You know the helping hand,broken arrows and all that stuff
.
Yeah, we had a ton of weaponry.
I know you know it was kind ofridiculous, it really was.
I met some characters at everybase, all kinds.
Larry Zilliox (38:00):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:00):
Yeah, you know, I met a whole group of people,
interesting people, people youknow you didn't think really
existed.
Larry Zilliox (38:09):
That's right.
Phil Massicotte (38:11):
You were those Southern guys.
You know, when I went to NewMexico there was a bunch of guys
that I ended up befriending.
They were from all from theSouth Tennessee and Georgia and
this and that South Carolina andthey kind of I was the Yankee
and they kind of took me undermy wing and we became good
friends.
Larry Zilliox (38:29):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:29):
Dave Franks and a few other guys.
They ended up working for theDepartment of Energy.
Larry Zilliox (38:33):
Oh yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:33):
On those SST trucks.
Yeah, they did that and theyended up having a career.
Larry Zilliox (38:37):
Yeah, believe it or not?
Phil Massicotte (38:38):
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (38:39):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:54):
Well, that's the other thing about the
military, too, is you're goingto go in and you're going to
meet people and you're going tobe forced to work with people
that you would not normally evermeet in your lifetime.
It's not like you could stayaway from them, no, no, no.
And when you're in a fire teambuilding with them or you're on
a two-man alarm response team orsomething you know you've got
to way to get work through that,yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it
really gets you, it does prepareyou.
Yeah, you know, becauseanywhere you go and I went from,
I went from this, uh, in themilitary to the state and you
(39:18):
know there was a different setof characters there, but you
know, it kind of prepared me forthat.
And then from there I went tothe city when I was aviation
commissioner, yeah, after I gotout, retired from the state and
went to the mayor, to MarkMeripur, and became chairman of
the aviation commission.
I did that for like seven years.
I always liked being around it.
But you know, all that preparedme for all those people I met
(39:41):
in every government system.
You know, really, I really didbecause, man, I was like holy
cow.
You know, after listening tosome people and their stories
and their lives and you know,wow, you know, my life was
simple compared to some of theseguys.
Larry Zilliox (39:55):
Yeah, yeah, they were all different kinds and you
know that was back still wherepeople joined the military,
because it was either that orjail, yes, yes, yeah, or some
judge would.
Where people join the militarybecause it was either that or
jail.
Phil Massicotte (40:06):
Yes, yes, yeah, or some judge would sentence
you to the Marines or somethingyou know.
But yeah, either go to theMarines or you go to county, or
something that's right.
Larry Zilliox (40:16):
Luckily, the Air Force had a pretty high entrance
standard, so we didn't see toomuch of that.
Not too many.
Phil Massicotte (40:23):
No, but yeah, we saw some crazy people.
Larry Zilliox (40:27):
Yeah, wow.
Phil Massicotte (40:28):
Surreal stuff happening.
Like you're trying to go waitwhat is he doing?
Oh, he's catching bullfrogs.
Larry Zilliox (40:35):
I know Southerners used to throw those
big toads against the fire teambuilding.
Phil Massicotte (40:39):
Oh, the big toads man, yeah, you know.
Or chase a rat down the ramp orsomething you know, man, you
know, or chase a rat down theramp or something you know.
Larry Zilliox (40:45):
Oh man, these are crazy people.
You would recommend it to anyyoung person out there joining
the military.
Phil Massicotte (40:51):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Why not?
It was a good start for me.
In more ways, I think, over mycareer, I've seen that my Air
Force career really propelled me.
Oh, even over people, becausenowadays, even before I left,
everybody needs a college degreenow to be a cop in Connecticut
or pursuing a college degree.
(41:11):
But it was those people, someof those people didn't make the
rank because they lackedsomething.
You know, you go to college allyou want, but if you don't have
to lead people or talk topeople or control people, you
know with your voice, then justyou know with your voice, and
just you know, yeah, yeah,you're not going to make it too
(41:31):
far.
So the military guys a lot ofmy my first Lieutenant was a
Marine, my next Lieutenant wasin the army.
I mean, there's it seemed likeeverybody who was promoted had
some kind of military backgroundwith them.
Larry Zilliox (41:51):
I don't know how it has not changed quite a bit,
changed quite a bit.
I'm sure it's the same.
I mean that, yeah, your, yourservice experience does bring a
lot to the table and especiallyin the law enforcement community
.
There's no doubt about that,yeah right.
Phil Massicotte (41:59):
Yeah, I mean, I went my first eight years of
state service without taking asick day, so I had a huge sick
time bank.
And I remember going for one ofmy promotional interviews and
of course they always come tothe question of sick time and I
was getting ready for thatbecause I was proud to say to
them I haven't taken a sick daysince I've been in state service
(42:21):
.
So one of the people on theboard is a human agency, human
resources person, and so I knowwhat they're going to say oh
yeah.
So oh well, I don't know, maybeyou won't.
But so I said I am happy to saythat I haven't taken a sick day
in eight years.
And this guy looked at me andwent what's wrong with you?
(42:43):
And I said that's the point.
Nothing.
Isn't that the point of sicktime?
But I don't know, it was justmy.
I don't know what it was, Ijust didn't want to use my sick
time in that way.
Larry Zilliox (42:59):
Well, you know, and we would be sick on Guam but
it was from drinking, it wasn't.
Yeah, oh yeah, we would be sickon Guam, but it was from
drinking, it wasn't.
Yeah, oh yeah, we never got ill, we just went to work with
hangovers.
Phil Massicotte (43:11):
Yeah, and you're humping around a
nuclear-loaded B-52 with an M-16, 120 rounds and you're hungover
.
I remember hearing down theramp.
You know how quiet it got onthe ramp late at night, midnight
shift.
Sure, four planes down.
I hear him puking, you know,and he's echoing through the
hole and everybody's like yeah,yeah.
Larry Zilliox (43:35):
Exactly, there was no sick days for us, that's
for sure.
Phil Massicotte (43:38):
No, you slipped it off in a fire, team building
or something.
Larry Zilliox (43:44):
Yeah, really.
Phil Massicotte (43:44):
Yeah, I mean I can talk for hours.
I mean, let me know when youcan tell the real stories.
Yeah, we'll leave it at that.
Yeah, all right, well, listen,but absolutely recommend it, not
a problem.
Thank you for including me inthis.
Yeah, that's great.
I always like reminiscing aboutmilitary stuff you know.
(44:07):
Your kids are tired of hearingabout us when we get together.
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
But both my kids, yeah, theywere born in the Air Force Base.
Yeah, yeah, you know, they'reAir Force brats.
Wow, air Force brats, all right.
Well, thanks again, z.
Yeah, I appreciate it, buddy,I'll be talking to you All right
.
Larry Zilliox (44:20):
So for our listeners, we'll have another
episode next Monday morning at0500.
Until then, if you have anyquestions or suggestions, you
can reach us atpodcastwillingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guest is Phil Massicotte.
He's a retired law enforcementfrom Connecticut, veteran Air
Force veteran and famous forhaving been in Guam with me for
(00:25):
a year, able to stick it out forat least a year.
So I want to welcome Phil tothe podcast.
Well, thank you for having me.
Let's begin with when youjoined and why you joined.
Phil Massicotte (00:39):
I joined right out of high school.
I was 18 years old, actuallywent into basic training a month
after graduating high school.
There was no path for me forcollege.
I was raised by a single parentin the 60s, 70s, 15, nice, 14,
looking at military as well.
Everybody else was looking atcolleges and I kind of liked the
(01:09):
Air Force, so entered boot campin July of 1980.
That's exactly what I expectedFrom there.
Stayed in Texas and went to thetechnical training for security
specialists, finished that thatwas pretty much what I expected
as well.
Came home for leave and that'swhen my career started.
I mean, I got my assignment.
(01:31):
I'll never forget being at bootcamp.
They had a big map on the wallof all the bases around the
world and I saw this littleisland out there and I said, wow
, look at that.
I feel bad for the guy who'sgonna get a side on Guam.
And I didn't know.
I said I put it for all thesecoast bases.
(01:51):
I just figured that's where Iwas gonna go.
Well, no, you go with.
A mission requires you to go,sir.
And guess who got Guam?
Yeah, you know what?
It turned out to be the bestthing that ever happened.
Larry Zilliox (02:02):
Air, air Force needs to come first.
Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely Ilearned that quickly.
Did you go to air base grounddefense at Camp Bowes?
Phil Massicotte (02:11):
No, I didn't do that.
No, I didn't get selected forthat.
They weren't doing everybody.
So, no, I never did.
I wanted to.
That was another 19 weeks, Ibelieve.
Larry Zilliox (02:20):
Yeah, it was a good while.
Yeah, and it it was not badwhen I was there because it was
sort of the fall, so it wasn'tlike the crazy hot of oh, yeah,
that was in july.
Phil Massicotte (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was in august.
It was terrible, you know, somedays we didn't even march, it
was so hot, you know.
Yeah, it was so bad.
Yeah, that was.
You know guam was something bad.
Yeah, that was.
You know Guam was somethingelse.
Man, that changed.
That was such a surrealexperience from the word go.
So, you know, that was my firstassignment, you know, and I was
(02:54):
excited about it.
We spent the whole flight fromCalifornia to Guam 14 hours yeah
, trying to outrun a typhoonthere was a typhoon on the way.
Larry Zilliox (03:07):
Did you come over on commercial aircraft?
Phil Massicotte (03:10):
Yeah, pan Am yeah wow.
Back when Pan Am yeah, 747.
Wow, yeah.
And then I get there and ofcourse you know I'm thinking
everything's supposed to work asplanned.
You know you get a sponsor andmine was Simmons I don't
remember Simmons?
I don't I don't, I don'tremember that His nickname was
(03:31):
big.
Was he on our flight?
Was he on D?
He was on our flight, big, talllike six foot four.
Oh, african-american, you don'tremember him?
No, I don't.
Wow, yeah, we call him GeneSimmons sometimes.
Yeah, he was supposed to meetme there.
Of course he didn't meet methere.
I take a cab in, and I take acab in with this other guy, troy
(03:52):
, who's on the law enforcementside, and we get to the base.
We get in, they give us a dormroom and we're standing on the
second balcony of the dormlooking at this typhoon coming
like going.
What the hell are we supposedto do?
And just then the bus, themidnight shift bus, came in with
the flight you were on?
(04:12):
yeah, delta flight yeah becauseyou guys are just getting off
duty from the third shift andthe whole flight came up the
stairs fully armed, everything.
Came up the stairs and weturned around and you were the
first one up and you came up tous and said you guys know, and
like yeah, all right, all right.
And he talked to us for a fewminutes.
Other guys were coming up andgiving us the stink eye, you
(04:34):
know, cause we were new, youknow, and then I learned the
term Jeep.
Then too, you know, which isjust enough experience to
perform.
So, these, yeah.
So a couple guys came in what'sup Jeep.
I didn't even know what theheck that was, but it was funny.
Larry Zilliox (04:52):
So I don't know if you remember Kato, sure he's
on my list and let's go throughthis list to help our listeners
understand who we're talkingabout.
I'm just going to throw somenames out and kind of give you
an update of kind of where theyare.
I'm just going to throw somenames out and kind of give you
an update of kind of where theyare.
I'd start with JW, which wasJohnny.
Walker, was my roommate andJohnny got out after, I think,
(05:15):
four years in the Air Force andjoined the Coast Guard and was
stationed down in the Tidewaterarea and then got out of the
Coast Guard, started his ownelectrical company running good,
the PAG.
Paganelli he was my roommate,yeah, got out after four years
(05:36):
and today is a commander for theCleveland Clinic Police
Department.
Ski and Liz Ski they had a roomnext to me and Johnny for a
while but then Ski got married,liz was law enforcement and
Steve Paczynski he got out andwas working for the power
(05:58):
company in North Carolina isretired now.
And Liz you just never knowwhat Liz is doing.
She's an artist, she's alwaysgot something going.
Bob and Brenda Bob and BrendaBlonigan Brenda was law
enforcement, bob worked with ussecurity and he eventually
(06:19):
became a New Hampshire statepolice officer was also in the
reserve.
Brenda was a detective for thePortsmouth County New Hampshire
Police.
They're both retired now andactually we all went.
The last time we all gottogether there was a bunch of us
was up in New Hampshire forBob's retirement from the Air
(06:43):
Force Reserve and when he hitGuam he was an airman maybe
airman, basic airman right.
Phil Massicotte (06:50):
I think Airman first class, I think.
Larry Zilliox (06:54):
Yeah, and then he retired as a full bird colonel
in the reserve.
Yeah, it was amazing AliceAlice was law enforcement,
worked on D-Flight lawenforcement.
She got out and is a nurse downat a VA hospital down, I think,
in Louisiana.
Ann also Ann Warren lawenforcement with us D-Flight.
(07:18):
She retired, worked for the VAand retired now and volunteers
for the Red Cross.
Lives in Albuquerque, newMexico, near Albuquerque.
Chris Case Chris was myroommate for a while.
Bear Ex-Navy guy Wanted to goin to be a Navy SEAL but blew
his knees out and buds Got outof the Navy and joined the Air
(07:42):
Force.
Phil Massicotte (07:43):
What a character he was boy, funny guy.
Larry Zilliox (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, and you never wanted to get between
him and food.
Phil Massicotte (07:51):
No, he was the only person I know that would
stack two or three slices ofpizza together and eat them like
as a stack, like a handful ofpotato chips or a sandwich.
Larry Zilliox (08:01):
yeah, so we'd all get off work and take the bus
back to the dorm and you'd go upto your room and put your stuff
away and then you'd maybe headover to the child hall for
midnight meal.
And he never he never made itto his room, man.
He just dragged all his stuffover to.
He couldn't wait to get tomidnight meal.
(08:23):
Unfortunately, he passed away anumber of years ago His wife
called me and said he had somehealth issues.
He's no longer with us, lois,he's underwater diving.
Yeah, yeah, lois wasn't part ofour unit or squadron or
(08:43):
anything like that.
She was a female flightengineer on a C-141 and coming
out of Travis and every time shehit Guam she'd stop in to see
us.
I think we met her at the cluband she was a hoot.
We had a lot of fun with her.
Yeah, she was funny, she wasfunny.
Phil Massicotte (09:03):
Doc Ricky Dockery yeah, fun, yeah, she was
funny, she was funny doc, uh,ricky doc, yeah, was uh, he
worked, uh, he works uh cdcright yeah, yeah, he was in the
not cdc.
Yeah, but it was small centralsecurity control, csc.
Larry Zilliox (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, he.
Uh, he got out and became aprincipal, high high school
principal.
He's retired now.
Tim Levy was one of.
He was just a great guy.
He was still in.
He probably would have made ita career.
He was stationed in New Jerseybut unfortunately he was killed
in a boating accident.
Well, he was at Fort or not Dix, but whatever the Air Force
(09:45):
base is in New.
Phil Massicotte (09:45):
Jersey McGuire, mcguire, mcguire yeah.
We went down to see him, yeah,me and Peg.
Larry Zilliox (09:52):
Yeah, had a good time Bill.
Phil Massicotte (09:55):
Southard.
Larry Zilliox (09:56):
Southard's still running around out there
somewhere.
I see him on Facebook everyonce in a while.
Ronnie Ard yeah, shake and bake.
He had a voice.
He was fun.
He had a voice.
Yeah, he sure did.
It sounded like the commercial.
That's why we called him shakeand bake.
That's all.
I forgot that.
I forgot that.
Yeah, so we had a flight of howmany on DeFi.
(10:21):
Was it like 30?
Maybe?
Yeah, 30 or 40, maybe?
Yeah, it like 30?
Maybe 30 or 40.
, yeah, maybe, yeah, you know,oh, you know.
Another one I'm thinking of issoup Steve soup.
Phil Massicotte (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, he he boy, he was good comic
release he had.
Larry Zilliox (10:39):
He was canine handler for law enforcement.
He was on deflight with us andum he was on D flight with us
and he always had trouble withhis dogs.
I remember one time his dog wasStupid dog yeah.
I heard just yelling.
We were clearing M-16s and theclearing buckets were on the
(11:00):
side of the building at CentralSecurity Control where the
armory was.
And I heard him out backyelling and, like his dog, his
dog was just sitting therelooking at him like a dumb
knucklehead and he had hispistol out and he was
threatening his dog with it.
And I'm like man, you got toput your gun away.
(11:24):
Man, you can't be waving yourgun around.
He's ready to shoot it, dog.
Phil Massicotte (11:29):
He was crazy.
Yeah yeah, I got pictures ofhim when we came back from the
Fiesta and he had to ride in thetrunk of the car.
Larry Zilliox (11:36):
I was just going to say that he was the first to
jump in the trunk.
Phil Massicotte (11:39):
Yeah, yeah, we drove like I don't know how many
miles back to base with him inthe trunk.
Larry Zilliox (11:44):
Well, you know everybody, everybody was loaded.
So so we had, uh, we were therein Guam and our mission, we
were part of SAC and it was, uh,it was, we were guarding
believe it or not nuclearweapons.
Yeah, Priority.
Phil Massicotte (12:02):
That was what was surreal.
That was what was surreal aboutthe whole thing to me, because
you know you're going throughthe training and everything and
you have an idea, but when youget there you're like wow.
Larry Zilliox (12:12):
Yeah, that's a B-52 that has nukes on it.
Phil Massicotte (12:15):
That's a B-52 with nukes on it, yeah, yeah,
and I got gotta walk around andguard it.
Larry Zilliox (12:23):
Yeah, you know, it was really something, yeah,
but the uh the mystique wore offfairly quickly when it was
raining.
Phil Massicotte (12:27):
Oh my god oh, no, kidding, we had those cans.
Remember the cans?
Sure, that's what I couldn'tunderstand when you guys are
getting off the bus andeverybody had a can and me and
troy got a can of rumen with,like what are these guys
carrying cans for?
These od green pans they were,couldn't figure it out.
Larry Zilliox (12:45):
They were dog food cans that we had got, yeah,
from, uh, the canine folks, andbasically it had a lid on it
and put your gas mask in it.
You put all your stuff in itand you kept it dry, and it was
also something to sit on whenyou're out nowhere.
That was great.
Yeah, everybody always had tohave the can with us.
(13:06):
Yeah, you did.
Yeah, you'd see a bunch of guyssitting around outside CSC
sitting on their cans justwaiting for your mount.
Phil Massicotte (13:16):
Yeah, yeah, I think you stood on your can,
didn't you?
When you gave your last gardenmount.
Larry Zilliox (13:22):
Well, I had to make sure everybody could see me
.
So when did you get to Guam?
Phil Massicotte (13:31):
So I got to Guam in November of 1980.
How?
Larry Zilliox (13:35):
long were you there?
Phil Massicotte (13:37):
And I was there until, like March of 81, my 82,
82.
Wow, so you were there almosttwo years yeah, yeah, pretty
much it was february or march,not sure.
Then I went from there to, uh,albuquerque, kirtland, yeah,
albuquerque, you, that wassomething else.
You, yeah, you followed by you.
Larry Zilliox (13:58):
Yeah, ski went down.
I'm not sure why they sent usall there.
I don't know.
For God's sake and place, Ididn't know.
Phil Massicotte (14:06):
That's something else huh, I did not
enjoy that place either.
Yeah, and the stuff I saw atthe ECP I worked the entry
control point, all kinds ofstuff coming in and out of there
.
You know I knew it wasn't goodthere.
You know I knew it wasn't good.
You know you have the sandianational labs come through there
and you're certain you have tosearch their vehicle when you
stick your head in there and theguy says hey, don't hold your
(14:26):
head back there too long.
You know.
You know I'm like wow, what arewe looking at here?
You know, but there's all kindsof bizarre stuff went up in
there, I know decommissioned nowI guess, yeah, well, I, I guess
they put this storage area outin the desert.
Larry Zilliox (14:43):
Yeah, yeah, so I, yeah, I remember I was in Guam
three years, two months, 18 days, 10 hours and 32 minutes, yeah,
and so I kind of was there forthe duration, do you?
Phil Massicotte (14:57):
remember the morning?
Yeah, you were there a while.
You the duration.
Do you remember the morning?
Larry Zilliox (15:01):
Yeah, you were there a while you put in for an
extension, right, and you gotapproved.
Well, yeah, the problem was Iran up against my four-year
enlistment was ending and I wentto a briefing and this guy at
HR says, look, you know you'regoing to get out, but you're
going to be in the reserves.
Technically, you'll be in thereserves for two years and if
something happens, they can callyou back.
(15:22):
And I said, well, can I extend?
And then I'm not going to, theycan't call me back.
No reserve commitment.
Yeah, and that's what I did.
I said I'll extend two yearsand then I'm done, you'll never
see me again.
Yeah, so, yeah, I did.
So.
I was there much longer andthen I think I only did about
(15:42):
eight or nine months in inAlbuquerque.
And the thing I hated mostabout Albuquerque is coming out
of Guam, and I'm sure youexperienced the same thing.
I got to Albuquerque and aboutfroze my ass off.
Phil Massicotte (15:54):
Um, oh yeah, it was cold, it was cold there and
we just weren't ready for it Inthe winter.
Yeah, no, no, we haven't seen.
You know, it was kind of likeFlorida weather.
You know, in Guam it's not veryhumid.
Larry Zilliox (16:09):
You could always count on Guam being a 10-degree
difference.
So if it's 85 in the daytime,it's 75 at night.
Whatever it is, it's the sameevery day, every day, and then
sometimes during it is, it's thesame every day, and then
sometimes during the day it'sgoing to rain on you, they would
issue us these ponchos thatthey'd say, oh yeah, here, put
(16:31):
the poncho on.
You know, you're sure you'vegot to stand out the rain, but
you'll have the poncho.
You put this poncho on andyou'd sweat to death so much
You'd be just as much as wet asif it You'd cook in there.
Yeah, if it rained on you.
So you just stopped carryingthe thing.
You just stood out there in therain, got wet and then you just
dried off.
Phil Massicotte (16:49):
After an hour or so it was really something
that was the only thing about.
Out there in the deserts in NewMexico you can hold, you know,
in the middle of a shift whenit's hot, you, in the middle of
a shift when it's hot, you cantrench yourself with the hose
and it would be dry in less than20 minutes.
You're totally dry.
Yeah, and Guam was just Guam.
Remember the Guam rot?
It was just so humid there, noteverything, it was just like
(17:14):
you felt sticky all the time.
You just couldn't sleep well,but you know what it was the
off-duty.
Yeah, you know it was just, butyou know what it was the
off-duty stuff that made it allgreat.
You know, we had some good,good times there in Guam.
Larry Zilliox (17:28):
Yeah, and right on base they have a beautiful
beach called Taragi Beach.
It was a lot of, we spent a lotof time down there.
Yeah, that's where the rangewas too.
Yeah, the range was right downon the beach too, and that's
where the range was too.
Yeah, yeah, the range was rightdown on the beach too, and
that's where eod range was too.
You could see him, yeah,setting off those big 500 pound
bombs.
For some reason, I don't knowwhy, I guess they just decided
(17:50):
the old ordinance from world warii or something.
Phil Massicotte (17:52):
You know, yeah, yeah, sometimes, but uh, yeah,
we were just, uh, it wassomething, and that you know,
the first day we were there onthat balcony you ended up coming
back.
I didn't know it was you.
You ended up coming back in aflight suit yeah, pilot's flight
suit, and colonel wings on yourshoulders and your OD green
(18:13):
ball cap and you had like aseven-inch long 50-ring cigar
hanging out of your mouth.
Larry Zilliox (18:21):
I was getting ready to play poker.
That was sort of that jacketwhen I saw it.
Phil Massicotte (18:25):
Yeah, I didn't know.
We didn't know what the dealwas because I didn't see any
rank on your jungles.
When you came up and Troy'slike, is this a real colonel?
I go, I don't know, that's adude.
That came up and then with you,I didn't know we didn, and then
with you, I didn't know whetherto salute or stand at attention
, so we did some half-assedthing and then you just started
talking like a regular guy.
I go, all right, he's doingthis as a goof.
(18:47):
I guess, that's what younormally dressed.
Yeah, that was your.
Larry Zilliox (18:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was my poker-playing outfit.
You know, somebody else Iforgot to is Kato.
Yeah, you know, he was aFilipino and he always had his
nunchucks and was doing crazystuff and you know he retired
from immigration.
He was working in California.
(19:14):
Oh, he went to immigration.
Yeah, he went to immigration.
Oh, no, kidding Law enforcement.
Oh, good for him.
Phil Massicotte (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, remember him doing his.
He had his nunchucksucks.
Larry Zilliox (19:21):
He was on top of the bus doing his nunchucks yeah
, johnny going through hisjohnny collie jumped off the
third floor.
Phil Massicotte (19:28):
Yeah as that other idiot jumped off the
second floor.
Yeah, because somebody calledhim a, you know, uh puss, that's
why.
But yeah, and then he got itwas crazy bunch of characters,
man really well, I know, butthey were just fun and laid back
and they made it all worthwhilewe had a good time.
We had a lot of good time.
But you know, I'm just goingthrough my head, but I can go
(19:50):
through stories.
Larry Zilliox (19:51):
Man, oh my God, we have some stories I mean most
of those we don't want to share.
Phil Massicotte (19:57):
No, we don't want to share.
But it was, you know, that setme going.
And when that kind of wore off,like you said, the excitement
of it all kind of wore off and Iwas ready for another
assignment.
And that's when I went toManzano, yeah, to Albuquerque,
and he followed after that, andthen I ended up three years
(20:18):
there.
And then I ended up going up toNorthern Maine, at Loring,
where you started, yeah, goingfrom the deserts in New Mexico
to the frozen tundra of northernMaine.
But I wanted to be close tohome.
I did three years up there.
It's not close to home, yeah,with Angela too.
Well, it was driving distance.
It was like an eight toten-hour drive to Connecticut.
(20:40):
And you know, you got to gothrough a selection.
I knew I was getting out, I knewI wasn't going to drag the kids
around the world.
You know, stopping at differentbases, three years here, four
years there, and I can't evenlearn to develop relationships.
You know that's what I wasworried about, yeah.
So I went to plan routes.
It was time to get out, stilldone, thinking about me, and I
(21:01):
said yeah.
So I ended up in the processwith the state, I got hired and
then I got out in March of 88.
After almost eight years.
I got out on a manpowerreduction thing and I took it,
yeah.
And so like a couple of weeksafter that I was, you know,
working for the state, going tothe police academy.
And then, once I got out of thepolice academy that's when I
(21:21):
started my career.
I started at Whiting Forensicand then went to Central
Investigations and thecommissioner's office and did
that for a while and Isupervised it and I went to
support operations as alieutenant in support operations
, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (21:35):
Back up a little bit here.
So Whiting Forensic Institute.
For all you listeners out therewho aren't familiar with
Connecticut facilities, it's aloony bin for criminally insane
people Maximum security,criminally insane individuals.
Phil Massicotte (21:51):
Yeah, you need to come in for court evaluations
.
They got an open case andthey're coming in to be
evaluated for competency andthings like that.
So basically it was a prison.
Yeah yeah, I worked for thestate but I was a police officer
at the famous Department ofMental Health and Addiction
Services.
So we were responsible for thestate police and security
services at the six differentmajor facilities in Bridgeport
(22:14):
even Hartford, newington andMiddletown.
Larry Zilliox (22:18):
How did you find your transition?
I mean what I mean you, you,you got employed really quickly.
Phil Massicotte (22:26):
Yeah, you know, I it was.
Then again I went to from themilitary into a paramilitary
kind of environment.
So my transition was kind ofeasy, going from the air force
into that right out of there acouple of weeks like I was on
leave.
Then you know, now you're inacademy and they're yelling and
screaming at you again and allthat stuff you know, and they're
(22:46):
going through the training andI thought, yeah, but yeah, I
ended up doing a lot ofinvestigations, you know
statewide and centralinvestigations, and I ended up
supervising it and thencommanding it and then I went up
to captain in field operationsfor my last couple of years, I
supervising it, then commandingit, and then I went up to
captain in field operations formy last couple of years.
Larry Zilliox (23:04):
I've been retired since 2013.
Yeah, was there ever a thoughtof doing something else, or were
you just always going tothinking you were going to go
into law enforcement?
Phil Massicotte (23:12):
Yeah, I knew I was going to probably go into
law enforcement.
The transition that was reallydifficult for me.
After all that my militarycareer, going into my law
enforcement career is kind of asmooth transition.
But once I retired in 2013, Iwent from overseeing 130 people
to overseeing my dog.
You know, I had noresponsibilities.
(23:34):
Really, you know, that was thetoughest transition and I think
I probably experienced withcombat not necessarily combat
veterans, veterans who've beenaround for a 20-year career I
probably experienced the samething, sure, and most of them do
.
You know I just became a littlelost, you know, started
(23:55):
suffering from depression andall that.
Larry Zilliox (23:57):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (23:58):
Trying to find my groove, you know so, yeah, so
I went from that to a you knowfull-time that yeah, trying to
find my groove, you know so,yeah.
So I went from that to a youknow a full-time grandpa you
know which is timing was perfect, because my kids just had their
kids and I was available, so,but it was a totally different.
That was the struggle.
And there was a struggle, Ithink, probably similar to life.
You know, lifers in themilitary, yeah, but you know you
(24:18):
push through it and you findyour way and you're okay.
Larry Zilliox (24:21):
you know, Did you make a VA claim for any kind of
services?
Phil Massicotte (24:26):
No, I didn't.
No, I should have.
I know it's a long process.
I should have.
I got tinnitus too.
I didn't put in for thetinnitus, that's a presumptive
condition, but I was in, I thinkthat was a certain time frame.
No, but I haven't used veteranservices, I have to say, for
(24:46):
anything like that.
Larry Zilliox (24:47):
You got a plan from the state, though you got a
retirement thing from the stateright.
Phil Massicotte (24:51):
Yeah, I got a pension and I got full
retirement, full medical, yeah,yeah, so I'm lucky.
And your wife is so muchyounger than you.
Is she still working?
She's still working.
Yes, yeah, well.
Larry Zilliox (24:57):
I'm lucky and your wife is so much younger
than you.
Is she still working?
Phil Massicotte (25:02):
She's still working.
Larry Zilliox (25:03):
yes, yeah well, you know.
Phil Massicotte (25:04):
Yeah, she'd rather be at work.
I think sometimes you know shecan't.
Larry Zilliox (25:08):
She's probably the youngest grandma in
Connecticut, I would think.
Phil Massicotte (25:16):
Yeah, I don't know about that.
But she looks very young for herage, that's for sure she does.
Oh my goodness.
Well, we used to go to thisdiner on a regular.
Every weekend We'd go to thesame diner.
We knew this waitress for like10 years.
She knows by name, she knew ourgrandkids and this and that and
after 10 years she thought Iwas Angela's father.
(25:38):
She didn't think the whole timeAll those years she thought I
was Angela's father.
The whole time all those yearsshe thought I was her father,
not her husband.
I wish I knew that I wouldn'thave gave you a tip.
Yeah, I'm a lucky man.
Larry Zilliox (25:54):
Yeah, she never came to Guam with you, did she?
Phil Massicotte (25:59):
No, she never came to Guam.
She came to New Mexico.
She came, came to Guam with youdid she?
Larry Zilliox (26:01):
No, she never came to Guam, I remember.
Phil Massicotte (26:02):
She came to New Mexico.
Larry Zilliox (26:03):
She came out to New Mexico.
Oh, that's where you guys gotmarried.
I remember we got married.
Yeah, you remember.
There we came for the wedding.
What a wedding that was.
Yes, you did In the judge'schambers.
Phil Massicotte (26:13):
Bertolino County.
Yeah, Bertolino County Courthyes.
Larry Zilliox (26:18):
And I remember I don't know.
You know, when you're younglike that, you're just stupid.
And I'm getting sent to PCSfrom Guam to Albuquerque and
like three weeks before thatyou're going to get married.
And I said oh, all right, well,let me get a, let me hop over
there from Guam to Travis, letme hop over there from Guam to
(26:42):
Travis.
I'll stay with Lois and thenI'll fly down to Albuquerque and
go to this 20-minute weddingand then fly back, have Lois
pick me up in the Air Force andthen hop back to Guam.
And I remember that veryclearly because I was really
close to being AWOL because Icouldn't get a flight.
(27:04):
I couldn't get a flight andthen all of a sudden, a flight
comes up on a C5 and the guysays to me he says here's the
deal, though this is a straightdirect flight from Travis to
Guam, not stopping in Hawaii,and it has an in-flight
refueling.
Are you okay with that?
(27:25):
And I'm like, well, yeah,because I'm going to get back
and I won't be AWOL.
Of course I'm okay with that.
And that was a long flight, man.
Oh yeah, that was really long,you know, like 14 hours or
something like that.
It was ridiculous.
But at least you know at leastyou weren't in troop seats like
you were when you were on aC-130.
Phil Massicotte (27:46):
But yeah, I took a C-135.
I took a hop from Guam toTravis on a C-135.
And yeah, and the jump seats,they were falling stuff too.
And yeah, I had myshort-sleeved shirts on, I
didn't know, you know.
And yeah, I had my short sleeveshirts on, I didn't know.
Once we got up there, man,everybody was throwing on their
jackets and I'm like they'relooking at me like I'm an idiot,
which I was.
(28:07):
You got your Hawaiian shirt on,I'm going on a vacay.
We got up there it froze, but Idid get to see some mid-air
refueling, to lay down next tothe boom operator and see all
that.
But yeah, other than that, youknow you're sitting in your jump
seat, the jump seats are allall full of people and you know
and you're trying to beeverybody's got their book or
whatever.
(28:27):
Didn't have phones back then,that stuff, you know so.
Or you went to sleep and Iremember falling asleep and
waking up and everybody you knowwas all laying on top of each
other.
You know they got strangerslaying on your shoulder and it
was just so terrible, but it was$10, you know, yeah, and they
give you a box lunch, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (28:47):
Space available.
Yeah, it's a lot differenttoday.
A lot different today, yeah,huh, oh, my goodness, can't get
hops anymore.
Yeah, well, you know, that wasthe greatest thing, man, that
that was the greatest thing.
Yeah, it was cheap and we saweverything coming in and out of
Guam so you could get a flight,no problem.
You know, oh, yeah, yeah if youwanted to go and then I
remember I don't know if youever took a Typhoonavac, but I
(29:14):
took a Typhoonavac out of Guamwith PAG.
Phil Massicotte (29:16):
Yeah, no, I never got the opportunity.
There was one and it filled upand I never got the opportunity
to go.
Larry Zilliox (29:21):
Yeah, we went to Okinawa.
What a crazy place that was.
Yeah, did you have to do12-hour shifts or something like
that?
No, you got there and all thebombers were empty, you know.
And so they went from PriorityA to Priority C.
They already had a full flightof guys there working the flight
line and securing everything.
So most of the time you had thenight off.
(29:43):
And I remember pag and I hookedup with a guy on their flight
there who spoke japanese.
His parents were mercenariesand so we went downtown drinking
with him and it was crazybecause he spoke the language.
Phil Massicotte (29:57):
And wow, man, yeah it was right, it was crazy,
that's that's no, I never gotthe opportunity.
I did go tdy to hawaii yeah and, uh, what was great about that?
I went there, I went, I went tothe hospital there, I was there
for three days and I went backto flight operations with my
(30:17):
orders.
And the guy looks at me and hegoes uh, you can't leave today.
I go when can I get out?
He goes well, your orders sayyou can only take a strategic
air command aircraft and wedon't have one coming in for 10
days.
So go have a couple of Mai Tais, because I hang around for
another 10 days in Hawaii whilewaiting for a flight.
Larry Zilliox (30:39):
Oh man, yeah, so the Air Force was kind of crazy
back then.
I hope they got it togethermore.
Phil Massicotte (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, I hope they got it together more
now.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'tknow.
I think they probably do.
It's a totally different setupthan when we were all together,
you know, with the securityforces and everything.
Larry Zilliox (30:58):
Yeah, A lot has changed and I'm sure it's for
the people.
Phil Massicotte (31:01):
A lot has changed and back then in the 80s
we were looking for Ivan tocross the wire.
You know, remember Ivan?
Yeah, it was the Russians, yeah.
Larry Zilliox (31:10):
They were going to invade Guam.
We had to be alert.
Yeah, it was kind of ridiculous.
Phil Massicotte (31:15):
It was something else, and my first
time being around nuclearweapons it was just like yeah, I
don't know, I I don't know, Iforget who I was riding with.
It was Kevin.
It was this guy named Kevin, Ithink.
Larry Zilliox (31:25):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (31:26):
I can't remember who he was, but I was
riding with him.
Kevin Austin, yes, kevin Austin, yes, yes, yes, and I remember
they were loading it up for aconvoy and I'm looking at these
things.
I must have been in the daze orsomething, because he came over
to me and he says he goes,don't worry.
Worry, if anything happens, youwon't fail a thing.
Okay, that's reassuring.
(31:49):
Yeah, very good.
Larry Zilliox (31:51):
You should just be incinerated in a tenth of a
second.
Phil Massicotte (31:54):
Yeah, it's ridiculous my military career.
I'm very happy with how mymilitary career was.
A lot of frustration though.
Larry Zilliox (32:02):
Yeah, yeah, but a lot of fun A lot of fun, a lot
of good people, the tribefrustration though, yeah, yeah,
but a lot of fun, a lot of fun,a lot of good people, the tribe.
Phil Massicotte (32:10):
We're still in touch with so many of them, you
know, yeah, and all the peoplethat I'm in touch with other
than, uh, john dylan, yeah, andin new mexico, yeah, it's just
people from guam.
It was just a special bondthere, you know.
It was just, it was somethingelse.
You know, everybody just cametogether for each other yeah,
yeah, you know and I rememberthe first sergeant when I, it
was just, it was something else,you know, everybody just came
together for each other.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
And I remember the firstsergeant when I it was time for
(32:30):
me to get my through my training, but now it's time for me to
hit the flight line.
I go to the first sergeant.
He was assigning shifts and Ihad already been like on this in
the same dorm and and everybodyon D flight was on my floor
down below.
So I said to him I said he goes, oh, where are we going to put
Airman Massacott, let's see.
(32:51):
And I go, I'd like to go toD-Flight.
And he looks at me and he goesdog flight.
And I said, yeah, I liked iteven more when he said that.
I said, yeah, I want to go todog flight.
And just a blast, it was justgreat.
It really was something else.
Larry Zilliox (33:08):
The only downside to it, really and I love Guam,
I learned your scuba dive therebut the only downside to it is
when I look back at my six yearswhen you worked the way we did.
You were on three swing shiftsfour to midnight yeah, it was
brutal.
Then you had 24 hours off.
Then you worked three swingshifts four to midnight yeah, it
was brutal.
Then you had 24 hours off.
Then you worked three mids,which was midnight to eight, and
(33:30):
then you had three days off andfor six years I was sleeping
Every three days I was sleepingat a different time.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Sleep cycles were all screwedup and today I still suffer from
insomniaomnia and it's justterrible.
That's.
That's the one thing.
If I recommend anything toyoung guys in the air force if
(33:52):
you're, if you're working in ajob where there's swing shifts
and that kind of thing, doeverything you can to get on
days, yeah Well every base Iwent to the first.
Phil Massicotte (34:02):
my first order of business was to try to get on
a day shift.
Yeah, you know I was done withthat stuff.
But then base I went to myfirst order of business was to
try to get on a day shift.
Yeah, you know I was done withthat stuff, but then when I went
into luring I ended up back inthat cycle.
Larry Zilliox (34:12):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (34:12):
For a year or so and then I ended up getting
on day shift and then when Ileft the military and I went to
work with the state, my shiftswere midnight to noon, two on,
two off.
Oh, wow, you know, yeah.
And so I went right into shipwork and that's when I really
started hating it.
So that's when I looked atgetting promoted and getting
(34:34):
some kind of investigative joband moving up the ladder because
I was guaranteed autonomy andyou know, the freedom.
Yeah, because eventually I had,you know, when I was Lieutenant
and Captain, I ended up havingstatewide responsibilities.
So it kept it, you know, itkept it not exciting, but it
kept it fresh.
Every day, busy Every day, yeah,busy.
(34:55):
You know I was doing lawsuit, alot of lawsuit, investigations
up there in the office ofcommissioner.
Yeah, so I would be.
I'd get a case, you know, apatient suing a treatment team
for abuse or whatever.
I'd have to make, you know,investigate it and file a
position paper for thecommissioner to send to the
attorney general's office.
(35:15):
So it was like an attorney'sworking product.
So that was, that was prettyinteresting.
Yeah, never ending never endingwork, though Never ending, never
ending.
And then left and I thought youknow they're not going to
survive without me, kind ofthing.
Oh yeah, who are they going tobring in?
They didn't even have me trainanybody to take my position.
Larry Zilliox (35:35):
It didn't matter, Life went on Kidding A monkey
could do that job.
What are?
Phil Massicotte (35:39):
you talking about?
Larry Zilliox (35:40):
Exactly, of course, of course, have a nice
retirement, we'll find somebodyto fill in.
Phil Massicotte (35:47):
Right.
Well, you know what?
I wouldn't have made the rank Imade in civilian sector had I
not gone through that experience.
It was seven years eight monthsin the military.
Really, when I brought that tothe table on our boards and
promotional boards and stufflike that, it really made a
difference.
It really did.
They were impressed with what Idid, especially when I went and
(36:10):
I got hired and I ate my firstassignment to lieutenant the
commanding officer at WhiteyForensic.
So they were really impressedwith that kind of background.
Anybody with military.
Larry Zilliox (36:21):
Military experience.
They can count on veterans,that's for sure, yeah.
Phil Massicotte (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, you , you know, and they got a.
You know I had all thosemilitary, uh um, mindset, even
though you know we joke aboutthe air force, but you know it,
we still had that mindset and Ibrought it to the, to that
environment, you know, and itkind of it kind of yeah, i't
know kind of like spread toother officers you know who were
like stuck in a rut, yeah, andyou get a couple of new guys who
(36:50):
have some you know pep in theirstep.
Larry Zilliox (36:53):
Yeah, you know, I think it was always lost on us
what the job we had and theresponsibility that we had, not
only in guarding these weapons,but they sent us to work with a
crazy amount of lethal force.
Oh yeah, we went to work withan M60 machine gun and 203
(37:19):
grenade launchers and justridiculous stuff, yeah, and the
area that we guarded was rightnext to the housing area and I'm
like, are we going to unleashthis on somebody?
Yeah, and it's going todevastate the housing area and I
could never get my head aroundthat.
But you know, yeah, the 15 and5s.
Phil Massicotte (37:43):
you know the helping hand, broken arrows and
all that stuff.
Yeah, we had a tons.
You know the helping hand,broken arrows and all that stuff
.
Yeah, we had a ton of weaponry.
I know you know it was kind ofridiculous, it really was.
I met some characters at everybase, all kinds.
Larry Zilliox (38:00):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:00):
Yeah, you know, I met a whole group of people,
interesting people, people youknow you didn't think really
existed.
Larry Zilliox (38:09):
That's right.
Phil Massicotte (38:11):
You were those Southern guys.
You know, when I went to NewMexico there was a bunch of guys
that I ended up befriending.
They were from all from theSouth Tennessee and Georgia and
this and that South Carolina andthey kind of I was the Yankee
and they kind of took me undermy wing and we became good
friends.
Larry Zilliox (38:29):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:29):
Dave Franks and a few other guys.
They ended up working for theDepartment of Energy.
Larry Zilliox (38:33):
Oh yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:33):
On those SST trucks.
Yeah, they did that and theyended up having a career.
Larry Zilliox (38:37):
Yeah, believe it or not?
Phil Massicotte (38:38):
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (38:39):
Yeah.
Phil Massicotte (38:54):
Well, that's the other thing about the
military, too, is you're goingto go in and you're going to
meet people and you're going tobe forced to work with people
that you would not normally evermeet in your lifetime.
It's not like you could stayaway from them, no, no, no.
And when you're in a fire teambuilding with them or you're on
a two-man alarm response team orsomething you know you've got
to way to get work through that,yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it
really gets you, it does prepareyou.
Yeah, you know, becauseanywhere you go and I went from,
I went from this, uh, in themilitary to the state and you
(39:18):
know there was a different setof characters there, but you
know, it kind of prepared me forthat.
And then from there I went tothe city when I was aviation
commissioner, yeah, after I gotout, retired from the state and
went to the mayor, to MarkMeripur, and became chairman of
the aviation commission.
I did that for like seven years.
I always liked being around it.
But you know, all that preparedme for all those people I met
(39:41):
in every government system.
You know, really, I really didbecause, man, I was like holy
cow.
You know, after listening tosome people and their stories
and their lives and you know,wow, you know, my life was
simple compared to some of theseguys.
Larry Zilliox (39:55):
Yeah, yeah, they were all different kinds and you
know that was back still wherepeople joined the military,
because it was either that orjail, yes, yes, yeah, or some
judge would.
Where people join the militarybecause it was either that or
jail.
Phil Massicotte (40:06):
Yes, yes, yeah, or some judge would sentence
you to the Marines or somethingyou know.
But yeah, either go to theMarines or you go to county, or
something that's right.
Larry Zilliox (40:16):
Luckily, the Air Force had a pretty high entrance
standard, so we didn't see toomuch of that.
Not too many.
Phil Massicotte (40:23):
No, but yeah, we saw some crazy people.
Larry Zilliox (40:27):
Yeah, wow.
Phil Massicotte (40:28):
Surreal stuff happening.
Like you're trying to go waitwhat is he doing?
Oh, he's catching bullfrogs.
Larry Zilliox (40:35):
I know Southerners used to throw those
big toads against the fire teambuilding.
Phil Massicotte (40:39):
Oh, the big toads man, yeah, you know.
Or chase a rat down the ramp orsomething you know, man, you
know, or chase a rat down theramp or something you know.
Larry Zilliox (40:45):
Oh man, these are crazy people.
You would recommend it to anyyoung person out there joining
the military.
Phil Massicotte (40:51):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Why not?
It was a good start for me.
In more ways, I think, over mycareer, I've seen that my Air
Force career really propelled me.
Oh, even over people, becausenowadays, even before I left,
everybody needs a college degreenow to be a cop in Connecticut
or pursuing a college degree.
(41:11):
But it was those people, someof those people didn't make the
rank because they lackedsomething.
You know, you go to college allyou want, but if you don't have
to lead people or talk topeople or control people, you
know with your voice, then justyou know with your voice, and
just you know, yeah, yeah,you're not going to make it too
(41:31):
far.
So the military guys a lot ofmy my first Lieutenant was a
Marine, my next Lieutenant wasin the army.
I mean, there's it seemed likeeverybody who was promoted had
some kind of military backgroundwith them.
Larry Zilliox (41:51):
I don't know how it has not changed quite a bit,
changed quite a bit.
I'm sure it's the same.
I mean that, yeah, your, yourservice experience does bring a
lot to the table and especiallyin the law enforcement community
.
There's no doubt about that,yeah right.
Phil Massicotte (41:59):
Yeah, I mean, I went my first eight years of
state service without taking asick day, so I had a huge sick
time bank.
And I remember going for one ofmy promotional interviews and
of course they always come tothe question of sick time and I
was getting ready for thatbecause I was proud to say to
them I haven't taken a sick daysince I've been in state service
(42:21):
.
So one of the people on theboard is a human agency, human
resources person, and so I knowwhat they're going to say oh
yeah.
So oh well, I don't know, maybeyou won't.
But so I said I am happy to saythat I haven't taken a sick day
in eight years.
And this guy looked at me andwent what's wrong with you?
(42:43):
And I said that's the point.
Nothing.
Isn't that the point of sicktime?
But I don't know, it was justmy.
I don't know what it was, Ijust didn't want to use my sick
time in that way.
Larry Zilliox (42:59):
Well, you know, and we would be sick on Guam but
it was from drinking, it wasn't.
Yeah, oh yeah, we would be sickon Guam, but it was from
drinking, it wasn't.
Yeah, oh yeah, we never got ill, we just went to work with
hangovers.
Phil Massicotte (43:11):
Yeah, and you're humping around a
nuclear-loaded B-52 with an M-16, 120 rounds and you're hungover
.
I remember hearing down theramp.
You know how quiet it got onthe ramp late at night, midnight
shift.
Sure, four planes down.
I hear him puking, you know,and he's echoing through the
hole and everybody's like yeah,yeah.
Larry Zilliox (43:35):
Exactly, there was no sick days for us, that's
for sure.
Phil Massicotte (43:38):
No, you slipped it off in a fire, team building
or something.
Larry Zilliox (43:44):
Yeah, really.
Phil Massicotte (43:44):
Yeah, I mean I can talk for hours.
I mean, let me know when youcan tell the real stories.
Yeah, we'll leave it at that.
Yeah, all right, well, listen,but absolutely recommend it, not
a problem.
Thank you for including me inthis.
Yeah, that's great.
I always like reminiscing aboutmilitary stuff you know.
(44:07):
Your kids are tired of hearingabout us when we get together.
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
But both my kids, yeah, theywere born in the Air Force Base.
Yeah, yeah, you know, they'reAir Force brats.
Wow, air Force brats, all right.
Well, thanks again, z.
Yeah, I appreciate it, buddy,I'll be talking to you All right
.
Larry Zilliox (44:20):
So for our listeners, we'll have another
episode next Monday morning at0500.
Until then, if you have anyquestions or suggestions, you
can reach us atpodcastwillingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
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