July 7, 2025 • 34 mins
Archaeology might conjure images of dusty excavations and Indiana Jones adventures, but for veterans seeking meaningful employment transitions, it's becoming an unexpected bridge to civilian careers. In this eye-opening conversation, host Chef Larry welcomes Caroline and Gabi from the Veterans Curation Program in Alexandria, Virginia, revealing a groundbreaking initiative that's transforming lives through the preservation of archaeological treasures.
The Veterans Curation Program offers a refreshingly practical solution to two significant challenges: veterans seeking transferable workplace skills and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers needing specialized processing of archaeological collections. This five-month paid employment program (not an internship or fellowship) teaches veterans valuable skills through hands-on work with historical artifacts and documents. From database management to photography, careful preservation to digital scanning, participants emerge with a versatile professional toolkit applicable across numerous industries.
What truly distinguishes this program is its comprehensive career development component. After receiving archaeological training, veterans spend dedicated work hours building resumes, preparing for interviews, networking with potential employers, and connecting with veteran service organizations. As Gabi, a Marine Corps veteran turned Archives Lab Manager, shares her journey from military service to discovering an unexpected career path, listeners witness the profound impact of finding purpose through preservation work.
Caroline, a program archaeologist, dispels Hollywood myths about the field while highlighting how the methodical, detail-oriented nature of curation work provides veterans with skills that transfer seamlessly to numerous professional settings. Whether participants ultimately pursue careers in museums, information technology, human resources, or countless other fields, the program serves as that crucial bridge between military service and civilian success.
Are you a post-9/11 veteran seeking your next mission? Do you know someone struggling to find their footing after military service? The Veterans Curation Program is accepting applications year-round at veteranscurationprogram.org, with particular interest in expanding their applicant pool. Join the program's upcoming ice cream social on July 25th to explore the Alexandria lab, meet staff and current participants, and perhaps discover an unexpected path forward in your post-service career journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services,
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guests are Caroline and Gabifrom the Veterans Curation
Center in Alexandria, and I'veasked them to come and tell us
all about this program.
When I first heard about thisactually it was over a year ago
(00:20):
I heard about this.
It really intrigued me becausethere's nothing else like it.
And so, caroline, welcome tothe podcast, and Gabby, thanks
for coming.
We really appreciate it.
Caroline, just kind of briefly,tell us what is the Veterans
Curation Project?
What does it do?
Caroline (00:41):
Well, first thank you for having both of us and for
giving us a wonderful tour.
This is a really special place,so thank you for having us
today.
The Veterans Curation Programis a program run by the US Army
Corps of Engineers.
You might hear us say USACE,but that's what the Army Corps
of Engineers runs this program.
It is a five-month transitionalprogram for veterans full-time
(01:05):
paid job, full or part-time paidjob, so not an internship, not
a skill bridge, full-upemployment.
And the kind of special thingabout the program is that we use
archaeology specifically,curation to help teach
transferable skills.
So we find that we can teachthings like database management,
(01:25):
we can teach things as simpleas time management, and it's
really to provide thoseprofessional skills but also the
community for the veterans.
Larry Zilliox (01:35):
So if you would, for our listeners and for me in
particular, tell us what you'retalking about when you say
curation Tell us what you'retalking about when you say
curation.
Caroline (01:45):
Sure, I'm an archaeologist, so I will say a
lot of nerd things on thispodcast, but curation is what
happens to objects after theyare brought out of the field.
This is all of the things thatHollywood doesn't really show in
the movies, but it's just asimportant.
But we are in the AC all day.
(02:06):
It's very nice and cool.
We're not outside digging.
That has already been done andwe are really making sure that
these objects are safe andstable.
Veterans learn minimalidentification.
That's what the archaeologistson the team are there for.
There's no pop quiz.
(02:27):
There's nothing.
We just try to have fun, learna bit of history at the same
time.
But yeah, making these thingssafe and stable and then
following whatever the ArmyCorps of Engineers wants them to
go after that, we're kind ofthe middleman.
Larry Zilliox (02:42):
So, gabby, you're a veteran, a Marine Corps
veteran, so my first questionfor you is one that I ask a lot
of our guests who are veteransis why did you join the Marine
Corps and not the Air Force?
Gabi (02:55):
It's a really good question.
Initially I had decided to jointhe military because I'm an
army brat and my dad spent over20 years in the army.
I spent a lot of time travelingand then I kind of make it a
joke I have an older sister whorandomly joined the Marines and
(03:17):
she came back.
Larry Zilliox (03:18):
Is that just to piss off your old man?
Yeah, yeah.
Gabi (03:21):
Okay, we do give him a hard time about it, but he's a
great guy.
He's never been.
He's always been supersupportive and he's never been
anti branch because he's offwhile my dad, you know, in the
hangar.
And I really wanted to be aBlack Hawk pilot and then turns
(03:51):
out I'm a little shorter than Ilike to admit, so I was still
going to join the Army.
My sister joined the Marinesand she came back a completely
different person and I reallyadmired her to begin with.
We like to joke around that Iwould copycat her a lot.
I would never admit it at myyoung age, but now, as an adult,
I look back and maybe I did alittle bit.
(04:12):
So she came back and she cameback a person that I guess I
wanted to be like and she hadall of this knowledge and this
experience and she came back adifferent person in a way that I
think I needed that kind ofmotivation and discipline as
well.
(04:33):
And so at the very end in MEPS Ihad already taken my ASVAB I
broke my Army recruiter's heartand walked down to the Marine
Corps office actually is thesame recruiter that my sister
used and so we essentially I hadthe same ship date as her, but
a year later.
(04:53):
And then when did you go?
Larry Zilliox (04:56):
in 2006.
Okay, and four years did you do?
Gabi (05:01):
My official leave date was 2011.
And so I ended up having to gointo MacDill to do my final
paperwork.
I was in 29 Palms and I waswith 14th Marines out of Texas,
and so my official stuff, like I, ended up developing some
medical disorders during my time.
(05:22):
So my dream was to be in for,just like my dad, over 20 years.
That was unfortunately cutreally rapidly and so my sister
continued on.
Larry Zilliox (05:32):
Were you medically discharged?
Gabi (05:34):
I went to the med boards and I had all of my paperwork
lined up and then once I hit myonce I hit MacDill I had to then
work, try and distance workwith 14th Marines and that was
very convoluted.
And so my official paperwork.
I'm not a med sep, so I had togo through all my med board
(05:55):
paperwork and try and work thatout later and so it's not not
the best.
It wasn't the dream that I had.
Larry Zilliox (06:03):
Right.
Gabi (06:03):
So it was really hard for me to accept that.
And then I did want to stillserve in that community, so I
started volunteering more, andthe funny thing is my older
sister served with our assistantPM in the Marine Corps, which
is how I learned about theVeterans Curation Program.
Larry Zilliox (06:22):
That was going to be.
My next question is how did youget to the Veterans Curation
Program?
So was this the first thing youdid when you got out?
Gabi (06:31):
No, I tried to stay.
I was a comm data Marine.
Larry Zilliox (06:34):
Right.
Gabi (06:35):
So I tried to stay within that field and then I quickly
recognized that was something Ienjoyed doing for the Marines
not in a civilian aspect and soI decided I needed to be college
bound and utilize my benefitsand through that journey I met
(06:55):
some really great people thathelped me with my benefits and
they impacted my life kind ofsimilarly the same way that I
saw my sister get impacted bythe Marines and I was so
positively changed by thesewonderful people that I felt the
appropriate thing to do was tohelp the next veteran.
And so I started volunteering.
I did a lot of differentvolunteering Relay for Life, I
(07:16):
coached soccer but I reallywanted to focus on veterans.
So my initial belief was that Iwanted to get my law degree and
help veterans with the VAprocess.
I know there's a lot ofstruggle there.
There's a lot of angst thatveterans experience, and I knew
two things I wanted to helpveterans and I wanted to have
(07:38):
the same impact that the peoplethat helped me with my benefits,
the same impact my sister hadon me the people that helped me
with my benefits.
the same impact my sister had onme and it to me led to just a
law degree to go, and you know,handle the VA in those appeals
until I met Caroline through theVeterans Curation Program.
Larry Zilliox (07:55):
Nice.
Gabi (08:09):
And I like to tease her a lot because I say that she
torpedoed my entire life plan.
And so she, in the best waypossible.
She was my manager when I was atech at the VCP and she
explained to me that I had a lotof gifts and skills and she
recognized my desire to helpveterans and she had said you
know you can help veterans inmany ways.
Veterans and she had said youknow you can help veterans in
many ways.
You're really good at thisspecific avenue that we do here
at the BCP as far as thecuration side goes.
(08:31):
So she had asked if I wasinterested in staying within the
field and maybe I shouldexplore that a little bit more.
And then sometimes I like tomake the joke that I'm the
luckiest person that's everexisted, because everything
seems to line up when it should.
And an assistant managerposition opened up at the ALX
lab that we are currently in.
(08:52):
So I took it, I interviewed forit was fortunate enough to take
it, and then I moved into thephoto lab.
So I was the photo lab managerfor our lab and then my current
position is an archives labmanager in our lab.
So I was the photo lab managerfor our lab and then my current
position is an archives labmanager in our lab, and again I
went to Caroline for all of hergenius and all of her insight in
(09:14):
her wisdom and I asked her doyou think I can do this?
Because now it's a lot ofcollections management work that
I'm involved with, as well ashelping the veterans.
And she gave me a lot of reallygreat advice and then at the
end of our conversation she hadsaid I think you need to try and
go for it.
Larry Zilliox (09:31):
Yeah.
Gabi (09:32):
And I did and I got it.
Now I get to work reallyhands-on with the collections,
while maintaining my desire andmy drive to help veterans.
Larry Zilliox (09:44):
Awesome, just awesome.
Caroline, where did you go toschool for your like archaeology
?
Caroline (09:51):
UMass Boston.
Larry Zilliox (09:52):
Okay, and so you're done with school and you
say I'm going to go finddinosaurs in the ground, right?
Caroline (10:00):
We get that a lot.
Unfortunately, we're notdinosaurs.
We like working withpaleontologists, but we do all
of the stuff that people leftbehind.
Larry Zilliox (10:13):
So when you came right out of college with this
degree, the idea was to go rightinto the curation aspect of it.
Caroline (10:22):
I've always loved the curation part of it.
I have done the excavation partand it's a whole lot of fun.
I just don't like to be outsidethat long, every day, all day.
So the AC is very nice.
But yeah, there's somethingabout curation that really,
really interested me.
I've always loved doing thepublic education side of it as
(10:43):
well.
This isn't just stuff, there'sthe story behind it and the
whole point is to tell thosestories.
So this job I was just as luckyas Gabby was too.
It just kind of opened up andit allowed me to do both things.
Things have the people side ofthings and help tell those
(11:07):
stories, but also be current andbe present for the veterans and
then also do the nerd stuff inthe AC at the same time.
Larry Zilliox (11:11):
Wow.
So in my mind, the way thisworks, and it's probably wrong,
but I'm just going to say youhave the folks that find the
artifacts Could be dinosaurs orcould be I don't know pictures
in an attic, could be importantdocuments from our national
history, could be any number ofthese things and they're like,
(11:33):
yay, we found it.
Now what do we do with it?
Give it to a curator.
You guys take it, make sureit's in good shape and then
archive it so that a thirdperson comes along and uses it
for research or tries to figureout.
You know how it fits intoeverything.
Is that pretty close to whatyou all do?
Are you like in the middlethere, or just kind of
(11:54):
cataloging and safeguarding andmaking sure it's available to I
don't know universities orwherever anybody wants to study
it?
I don't know universities orwherever anybody who wants to
study it.
Caroline (12:04):
Yeah, so a lot of that , definitely.
So we, as I mentioned, we areunder the US Army Corps of
Engineers.
They own a lot of land in theUnited States and by law, before
you do some kind of development, if it's a federal, they call
it an undertaking is a fancyterm, but basically any federal
(12:26):
money land project, you have toconsider the historic resources
that you're going to impactbefore you do the project,
resources that you're going toimpact before you do the project
.
So anytime that USACE wants tobuild a dam or do a modification
for an army base, say, theyhave to consider those resources
first.
And that generates a lot ofreports, a lot of archaeology.
(12:50):
There's the stuff that is foundin the ground, but there's also
all of the paperwork that again, hollywood does not show you.
We are archaeologists, we arescientists, we love
documentation.
There is a form for everythingand Gabby has all of them, but
there are, depending upon theproject, that material goes
(13:15):
somewhere where, depending uponthe project, that material goes
somewhere.
And you say they have adepartment called Mandatory
Center of Expertise and they dida study, I think 10 or so years
ago, and they looked at whereall of the Army Corps things
were around the country and theydid a consolidation project to
try to get them down to acertain number of storage areas
(13:36):
and in that they identified alot of collections that are in
need of care.
So some things might have beenexcavated in, say, the 1980s and
they've sat on a shelf for 40,50 years.
A lot can happen in that time.
So, water damage to the boxes,or maybe things weren't put in
archivally safe containers.
(13:57):
So USAID has identified all ofthose and that's where the VCP
comes in.
We have offices around thecountry and so different
collections are sent to the VCPoffices and we do that
stabilization.
The veteran technicians aretrained to again do basic
(14:17):
identification and put them inarchivally safe containers,
digitize those objects throughphotography or through scanning.
That package then can go towherever USACE wants it to go
(14:41):
next.
So that might be back to USACE,it might be back to a
university, it might be to astate museum.
It just depends upon thecollection.
Larry Zilliox (14:48):
So are the collections that you all work on
?
Let me ask you this, gabby, arethey public?
I mean, let me ask you this,gabby, are they public?
I mean, so much of what thegovernment does is public
information, but are thecollections, once you're
finished with them, available toa university or a school
(15:09):
somewhere?
How much of it is digitized?
Let me just ask you that.
Gabi (15:15):
Well, that's a really good question.
That's exactly what we're doingat the VCP.
We are accomplishing that goal.
And so on my side of the lab,all of the documents, the photos
, reports, the field documents,we have maps, we have background
records All of that stuff isgoing to be organized, situated.
We do some light cleaning andmending situated.
(15:38):
We do some light, cleaning andmending.
So we will remove like staplesand flatten things out.
But everything will bedigitized and it will go in a
database and the idea is we'regoing to put it in a order that
the future Caroline, whensomeone with her background
that's working on a project ordoing research, could easily
access any part of thatcollection through the database
(15:58):
with its corresponding scan asfar as, like that public side of
things it's going to be basedon, like the repository of
whatever their plan is for it.
So we won't really have a say inthat.
Usace will give us theinformation as far as final
repository and we'll ship it out.
The part that we're playing init is making it accessible.
Larry Zilliox (16:19):
And then that final decision will be made at a
later date, mm-hmm.
Well, I want to direct ourlisteners to the webpage which
is theveteranscurationprogramorg, and
go to that webpage, take a lookand can a veteran I don't know
what to say is this sign up?
Is this apply to be in theprogram through the webpage?
Gabi (16:44):
So if you head over to our webpage, there is a how to
apply button.
You can pop in.
It'll bring you to theapplication process.
It's going to ask you which labyou would like to apply to and
so you can put all four labs inthere.
You can put the one closest toyou.
We do consider all veterans,but we do have a preference due
(17:10):
to how our program is running.
We do have a preference forpost 9-11 or anywhere 1990 and
prior.
Once those spots are filled up,we do have a preference for
post 9-11 or anywhere 1990 prior.
Once those spots are filled up,we open it up to just about
anybody.
So each lab.
I think right now we have sixtechnicians in our lab.
San Mateo is a smaller lab sothey're going to take a little
(17:30):
less.
Augusta is a beautiful lab.
It's in like an historicbuilding so they can take about
the same as us.
So once you pick your lab ofinterest, we accept applications
year round.
We do keep track of all of thatwhat.
We will start interviews forour next session around October
(17:53):
and that session will start inNovember.
Larry Zilliox (17:55):
Okay, so November for six months, five, five
months, and then another one.
Gabi (18:01):
And then in April we do it all over again.
Larry Zilliox (18:03):
Right, okay, so is it roughly 12 people a year.
Gabi (18:08):
I would say anywhere between 12 to like 20.
Our numbers prior to COVID weremuch higher, and so we are
rebuilding our network and weare looking at I think San Mateo
is our newest lab and St Louisis going through some changes or
they just finished goingthrough some changes, and so
there was a lot of shiftinggoing on with the program and I
(18:31):
think everything's settling down.
We're looking at each session.
How many more veterans can wehelp?
It's the hours are going to bebased on veteran need and what
is feasible.
Like the whole goal of theVeterans Curation Program is to
help the veterans be in a betterposition than when they first
came to us, and so some veterans, you know they need that 30 to
(18:55):
40 hour a week, and so that'sgoing to pull away from how many
people we can take in our lab.
Some veterans can only do 20hours a week, and so we do
consider all of that as far asthe veteran need, because we
want able to do two sessions ayear.
If we can't select you thistime, always, please reapply so
(19:20):
that we can try and allow youinto the space.
Larry Zilliox (19:23):
So for our local listeners, what are the lab
opportunities here locally atthe Alexandria facility?
Gabi (19:31):
Since I've been a part of the ALX lab, we have had
anywhere between six to, I think, 10 or 11 in one session at a
time.
Larry Zilliox (19:40):
Okay, and are they doing photographs?
Are they doing documents?
Are they doing cyber tooth,tiger tooths or whatever you
brought here Listeners?
I wish you could see it, butthey have a box with some really
cool stuff in it which I'lllook at later.
I don't want to take up ourlisteners' time with me kind of
ogling stuff they can't see.
But yeah, what would they dohere in Alexandria, caroline?
Caroline (20:04):
So we have three different parts of the lab in
terms of processing.
There is the artifact side ofthings that I am the manager for
and we do basic identification.
We enter things into an Exceldatabase.
One of our assistant managerswill run the photography lab, so
(20:26):
she will teach technicians howto take all different kinds of
photos with a museum-qualitycamera and they can earn a
photography proficiencycertificate from the Veterans
Curation Program at the end ofthe session if they choose to do
that.
And then the other side of thelab is the archives.
(20:46):
So that will be with Gabby andour other assistant manager
teaching them how to scandocuments, digitize everything,
scan documents, digitizeeverything.
We have some photographs andall kinds of odd documents that
they will learn how to process.
And then we didn't touch onkind of the second part of the
program, but I'll let Gabby pickup the professional growth and
(21:08):
development part.
This is a really special thingthat we just started.
Larry Zilliox (21:13):
And so, as a veteran who applies and gets
accepted into the program,they're going to hit each one of
those elements.
They're not going to be justonly one where they focus on
just archives or justphotography.
They're going to do a stint ineach one of those.
Caroline (21:29):
Yes, they will be trained in all of them.
We try to keep somebody'spreference into account, but
it's not always possible,depending upon the directives
that we are given.
So they do kind of float whenthey can, but everybody is
responsible for completing theirprofessional growth and
development hours referring tois every after the first month.
Gabi (21:57):
That's typically dedicated to the archaeologist, giving
them a crash course intoarchaeology, anthropology, a lot
of the regulations that must wemust follow to process these
collections.
We then, after that first month, it's called professional
growth and development.
It's time paid in lab to workon resumes, linkedin's.
We can do mock interviews withthem.
(22:18):
They could apply to jobs.
If they need to do securityclearance paperwork, they can
work on that.
They can go to hiring fairs,virtual or in person.
These are all things that wecan pay them to do while in the
lab.
It is super beneficial of havingexperienced the VCP as a
technician.
It really does make adifference to have managers that
(22:40):
have wonderful resumes and aneducational background that can
sit with you and kind ofbrainstorm what your goals are
and explore creative ways to getthere or traditional ways to
get there.
We've also had VSOs come intoour space and we have guest
speakers where they have theopportunity to do one-on-ones
(23:01):
with those VSOs.
We've had guest speakers thatare like the DAV, the DVS.
We've also had some moreinteresting kind of not so
focused on the job portion butfocused on Caroline's background
and Caroline's field of workthat we can show to the veterans
just in case there is aninterest in the field.
(23:22):
But they're not really sure howto get into it, so we do.
Field trips is another reallycool part of the program.
So it kind of turns out thatthe nerds no other nerds so we
can go and visit museums, getsome VIP tours.
We've gone to some reallyinteresting places and really
get a hands-on experience in away that I wouldn't think I
(23:45):
would have had without the BCP.
Larry Zilliox (23:47):
Right, right.
So I apply and I get accepted,and I'm there for five months
and I've learned each one ofthese things.
Where do I go next?
What do I do?
What is this getting me readyfor?
What kind of job?
I mean, it sounds like it'slike two steps above a
philosophy degree.
I mean, it doesn't.
(24:12):
There's not this isn't a bigfield.
There's not, you know, a hugedemand for archivists, because
these days people don't hang onto stuff.
I mean, let's face it,unfortunately, or it's already
all digitized, yeah.
So yeah, where am I going afterI go through this?
Caroline (24:29):
Yeah, we're not out to make archaeologists to make
archaeologists.
We looked at the past couple ofyears and really only a handful
of technicians in theAlexandria lab have gone on to
museum fields.
That's what they wanted to do.
So I think the short answer iswhatever you want to do we're
going to help you get there.
We've had technicians go onagain to those museum jobs but a
(24:52):
lot of our technicians go on tolike HR or IT positions.
We've had really any any joband we are kind of that, that
boost or that stabilization.
Whatever that technician needs,we can help them find grants
for future schools.
We can help them network.
(25:13):
We can send cold emails all dayLike we do not mind doing that.
Whatever resources they need,be it personal or professional,
we are going to help them getthose for whatever field.
Larry Zilliox (25:25):
So I've got to believe that a lot of this
training can translate intotheir lives and affect whatever
employment they seek, especiallywhen it comes to researching
things, whether it's where to goeat, whether it's documenting
things.
Everybody finds themselves inneed of documenting their life
(25:47):
when they're buying a house ortrying to keep track of any
number of things, and it justsounds like this would be
excellent training for veteranswho one aren't sure what they're
going to do.
So this is a job and gives themsome space to figure out what
they're going to do, gives themsome skills that they can use in
(26:07):
their next employment, and Ijust think this is just a
fantastic program.
Again, listeners, it'sveteranscurationprogramorg.
I have two more questions.
One is you have 10 peopleyou're going to do.
How many people apply?
(26:28):
What are we looking at?
Gabi (26:30):
Initially, when I first joined the management team.
When I first joined themanagement team, we were looking
around 20 to 30 applicationsand then Caroline and I had
spent a lot of time trying torebuild our network and really
expand that.
Like I said previously, if Ican't take you right now in this
(26:50):
session, I'm going to throw youinto the pot for the next one.
And so the most recent one was,I think, over 35.
So we are moving forward withthat goal.
We want to make sure that theword is getting out and people
are at least able to sit with usand talk to us to learn more
(27:11):
about the program, because it iskind of an odd program.
We're not a skill bridge, we'renot an internship or a
fellowship.
We're not trying to makearchaeologists.
We're trying to do exactly whatyou said give them transferable
skills for the next job usingthe archaeology.
And so, in my opinion, I wouldlove to see around 40 to 50
(27:32):
applications in the next yearper session 40 to 50
applications in the next yearper session really widen that up
.
And so, although if I can't takeyou right now and you kind of
share what your interests are oryou have questions, it doesn't
stop us from being able to sendyou resources or to connect you
with someone that would be areally good fit for whatever
(27:53):
your goals are.
Larry Zilliox (27:54):
Sure, well, you know, it sounds like you're at
like a 25, 28% acceptance rate,which beats most colleges.
You see around 4% if you'relucky Listeners.
The other thing I want tostress, too, is that this is a
private company.
This is a company that has acontract with the United States
government.
So when I direct you to thiswebpage that has a contract with
(28:17):
the United States government,so when I direct you to this
webpage, you will be relievedthat I'm not telling you to hit
that donate button.
Every veteran serviceorganization that we talk about,
I always direct everybody to gohit that button, donate.
But you don't need to do thatthis time.
Just go and read the webpage,think about it for yourself.
(28:37):
Or if you have a relative or afriend or somebody that you work
with who's struggling a littlebit and hasn't really found
their footing in your particularcareer field, please refer them
to this.
Send them the link for this andmaybe it'll work for them.
You know, the more we can getthe word out, we want to broaden
(28:58):
that pool of applicants, forsure.
My last question I'm going togive this same question to each
of you.
So, caroline, where do you see,or how do you see, artificial
intelligence impacting yourcareer field.
Caroline (29:12):
Oh gosh, it is a tool.
It's a very, very powerful tool.
I tell this to veterans in theprogram who may have used AI to
help them write a resume.
That's great, but it is a tooland you are controlling the tool
(29:34):
.
So the same thing forarchaeology AI can do some very
powerful things.
Ground penetrating radar can dosome very powerful things, but
it's not like we're not at a,you know, a Hollywood movie
where the AI is taking overright.
There's always going to be thehuman using it to accomplish a
(29:55):
goal, to answer a question, totell a story.
Larry Zilliox (29:58):
Gabby, what about you Really on the archival?
I mean, I could really see itcould impact on modeling for one
thing, but also in justreviewing very large sets of
data to find correlations.
That is hard for humanssometimes to see.
(30:19):
But what do you think will bethe impact in the coming years?
Gabi (30:24):
I mean, I do see a benefit in using AI, or the potential
of using AI, to gatherinformation about a collection
and creating patterns or seeinga trend.
But as far as what myexperience is with archiving,
there's so many ways to organizea collection it really is going
(30:47):
to depend on the collectionitself, the notes that the
previous archaeologists wrotedown.
It's almost like a puzzle, andif you're looking at it just one
way to set a pattern, you maybe missing the bigger picture
that the original researchersand archaeologists were
intending, and so you don'treally want to put a personal
(31:07):
bias, but I would also argue youwouldn't want to put a
artificial intelligence bias toit either.
I think that human factor isreally going to matter when
looking at these collections,seeing what they found, looking
at their initial interpretations, talking to someone 60 years
(31:28):
after the excavation, likeCaroline looking at it and
seeing what her interpretationis on it.
I don't think that AI couldreplace something like that.
I think that there's just aspecial thing that humans have
that cannot be replaced.
Larry Zilliox (31:42):
Right, well, fascinating.
The whole thing is justfascinating to me, and I can't
thank you enough for making thetrip out here from Alexandria.
I know it's not fardistance-wise, but time-wise
it's quite a ways.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I really appreciate it.
Gabi (32:00):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, Larry.
I do want to just let you knowand invite you.
We do have an event coming up.
Larry Zilliox (32:07):
Oh, yes, tell us about that.
Gabi (32:09):
For sure.
Yeah, it's in July.
Our theme is an ice creamsocial.
We have six tablers currentlywith different veteran
organizations that handledifferent parts of veterans
needs.
Our veteran technicians will bethere to kind of share their
experiences.
Do some demonstrations of thework that we have.
We'll have a resume reviewtable.
(32:29):
One of our admin members wouldjoin us to take that over.
Fortunately, we were donatedfour tickets to a DC United game
and it's not a raffle.
We're not going to ask for anymoney.
The way to sign up for that isto come into the lab, sign into
our sign-in sheet and then we'llpull a name out and announce
(32:49):
the winner.
But it's between 2 and 5 onJuly 25th we're going to open
the lab to the public, so weinvite any veteran to come in,
or if you are a service memberthat is getting ready to
transition to become a veteran,please come into the lab, come
see the space we're going tohave some of our collection out
that you guys can take a look at.
(33:12):
Our assistant lab manager thatruns our photo lab will be doing
demonstrations in there andit's a really good, I think,
intro into that veterancommunity space.
Larry Zilliox (33:19):
Wow, wow.
Well, it sounds awesome.
There'll be plenty of coolthings to do, and ice cream, I
mean really if that doesn't grabyou, I don't know what does,
especially in July.
Absolutely, You'll be ready forice cream, for sure.
Well, listen, thank you so much.
I can't thank you enough forcoming out and sitting down with
(33:41):
us.
This has been great Well forour listeners.
We'll have another episode nextMonday morning at 0500.
For those of you who'd like toget up early and listen to
podcasts, you can find us onmost major podcast platforms.
We're also on YouTube andWreaths Across America Radio.
Thanks for listening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services,
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guests are Caroline and Gabifrom the Veterans Curation
Center in Alexandria, and I'veasked them to come and tell us
all about this program.
When I first heard about thisactually it was over a year ago
(00:20):
I heard about this.
It really intrigued me becausethere's nothing else like it.
And so, caroline, welcome tothe podcast, and Gabby, thanks
for coming.
We really appreciate it.
Caroline, just kind of briefly,tell us what is the Veterans
Curation Project?
What does it do?
Caroline (00:41):
Well, first thank you for having both of us and for
giving us a wonderful tour.
This is a really special place,so thank you for having us
today.
The Veterans Curation Programis a program run by the US Army
Corps of Engineers.
You might hear us say USACE,but that's what the Army Corps
of Engineers runs this program.
It is a five-month transitionalprogram for veterans full-time
(01:05):
paid job, full or part-time paidjob, so not an internship, not
a skill bridge, full-upemployment.
And the kind of special thingabout the program is that we use
archaeology specifically,curation to help teach
transferable skills.
So we find that we can teachthings like database management,
(01:25):
we can teach things as simpleas time management, and it's
really to provide thoseprofessional skills but also the
community for the veterans.
Larry Zilliox (01:35):
So if you would, for our listeners and for me in
particular, tell us what you'retalking about when you say
curation Tell us what you'retalking about when you say
curation.
Caroline (01:45):
Sure, I'm an archaeologist, so I will say a
lot of nerd things on thispodcast, but curation is what
happens to objects after theyare brought out of the field.
This is all of the things thatHollywood doesn't really show in
the movies, but it's just asimportant.
But we are in the AC all day.
(02:06):
It's very nice and cool.
We're not outside digging.
That has already been done andwe are really making sure that
these objects are safe andstable.
Veterans learn minimalidentification.
That's what the archaeologistson the team are there for.
There's no pop quiz.
(02:27):
There's nothing.
We just try to have fun, learna bit of history at the same
time.
But yeah, making these thingssafe and stable and then
following whatever the ArmyCorps of Engineers wants them to
go after that, we're kind ofthe middleman.
Larry Zilliox (02:42):
So, gabby, you're a veteran, a Marine Corps
veteran, so my first questionfor you is one that I ask a lot
of our guests who are veteransis why did you join the Marine
Corps and not the Air Force?
Gabi (02:55):
It's a really good question.
Initially I had decided to jointhe military because I'm an
army brat and my dad spent over20 years in the army.
I spent a lot of time travelingand then I kind of make it a
joke I have an older sister whorandomly joined the Marines and
(03:17):
she came back.
Larry Zilliox (03:18):
Is that just to piss off your old man?
Yeah, yeah.
Gabi (03:21):
Okay, we do give him a hard time about it, but he's a
great guy.
He's never been.
He's always been supersupportive and he's never been
anti branch because he's offwhile my dad, you know, in the
hangar.
And I really wanted to be aBlack Hawk pilot and then turns
(03:51):
out I'm a little shorter than Ilike to admit, so I was still
going to join the Army.
My sister joined the Marinesand she came back a completely
different person and I reallyadmired her to begin with.
We like to joke around that Iwould copycat her a lot.
I would never admit it at myyoung age, but now, as an adult,
I look back and maybe I did alittle bit.
(04:12):
So she came back and she cameback a person that I guess I
wanted to be like and she hadall of this knowledge and this
experience and she came back adifferent person in a way that I
think I needed that kind ofmotivation and discipline as
well.
(04:33):
And so at the very end in MEPS Ihad already taken my ASVAB I
broke my Army recruiter's heartand walked down to the Marine
Corps office actually is thesame recruiter that my sister
used and so we essentially I hadthe same ship date as her, but
a year later.
(04:53):
And then when did you go?
Larry Zilliox (04:56):
in 2006.
Okay, and four years did you do?
Gabi (05:01):
My official leave date was 2011.
And so I ended up having to gointo MacDill to do my final
paperwork.
I was in 29 Palms and I waswith 14th Marines out of Texas,
and so my official stuff, like I, ended up developing some
medical disorders during my time.
(05:22):
So my dream was to be in for,just like my dad, over 20 years.
That was unfortunately cutreally rapidly and so my sister
continued on.
Larry Zilliox (05:32):
Were you medically discharged?
Gabi (05:34):
I went to the med boards and I had all of my paperwork
lined up and then once I hit myonce I hit MacDill I had to then
work, try and distance workwith 14th Marines and that was
very convoluted.
And so my official paperwork.
I'm not a med sep, so I had togo through all my med board
(05:55):
paperwork and try and work thatout later and so it's not not
the best.
It wasn't the dream that I had.
Larry Zilliox (06:03):
Right.
Gabi (06:03):
So it was really hard for me to accept that.
And then I did want to stillserve in that community, so I
started volunteering more, andthe funny thing is my older
sister served with our assistantPM in the Marine Corps, which
is how I learned about theVeterans Curation Program.
Larry Zilliox (06:22):
That was going to be.
My next question is how did youget to the Veterans Curation
Program?
So was this the first thing youdid when you got out?
Gabi (06:31):
No, I tried to stay.
I was a comm data Marine.
Larry Zilliox (06:34):
Right.
Gabi (06:35):
So I tried to stay within that field and then I quickly
recognized that was something Ienjoyed doing for the Marines
not in a civilian aspect and soI decided I needed to be college
bound and utilize my benefitsand through that journey I met
(06:55):
some really great people thathelped me with my benefits and
they impacted my life kind ofsimilarly the same way that I
saw my sister get impacted bythe Marines and I was so
positively changed by thesewonderful people that I felt the
appropriate thing to do was tohelp the next veteran.
And so I started volunteering.
I did a lot of differentvolunteering Relay for Life, I
(07:16):
coached soccer but I reallywanted to focus on veterans.
So my initial belief was that Iwanted to get my law degree and
help veterans with the VAprocess.
I know there's a lot ofstruggle there.
There's a lot of angst thatveterans experience, and I knew
two things I wanted to helpveterans and I wanted to have
(07:38):
the same impact that the peoplethat helped me with my benefits,
the same impact my sister hadon me the people that helped me
with my benefits.
the same impact my sister had onme and it to me led to just a
law degree to go, and you know,handle the VA in those appeals
until I met Caroline through theVeterans Curation Program.
Larry Zilliox (07:55):
Nice.
Gabi (08:09):
And I like to tease her a lot because I say that she
torpedoed my entire life plan.
And so she, in the best waypossible.
She was my manager when I was atech at the VCP and she
explained to me that I had a lotof gifts and skills and she
recognized my desire to helpveterans and she had said you
know you can help veterans inmany ways.
Veterans and she had said youknow you can help veterans in
many ways.
You're really good at thisspecific avenue that we do here
at the BCP as far as thecuration side goes.
(08:31):
So she had asked if I wasinterested in staying within the
field and maybe I shouldexplore that a little bit more.
And then sometimes I like tomake the joke that I'm the
luckiest person that's everexisted, because everything
seems to line up when it should.
And an assistant managerposition opened up at the ALX
lab that we are currently in.
(08:52):
So I took it, I interviewed forit was fortunate enough to take
it, and then I moved into thephoto lab.
So I was the photo lab managerfor our lab and then my current
position is an archives labmanager in our lab.
So I was the photo lab managerfor our lab and then my current
position is an archives labmanager in our lab, and again I
went to Caroline for all of hergenius and all of her insight in
(09:14):
her wisdom and I asked her doyou think I can do this?
Because now it's a lot ofcollections management work that
I'm involved with, as well ashelping the veterans.
And she gave me a lot of reallygreat advice and then at the
end of our conversation she hadsaid I think you need to try and
go for it.
Larry Zilliox (09:31):
Yeah.
Gabi (09:32):
And I did and I got it.
Now I get to work reallyhands-on with the collections,
while maintaining my desire andmy drive to help veterans.
Larry Zilliox (09:44):
Awesome, just awesome.
Caroline, where did you go toschool for your like archaeology
?
Caroline (09:51):
UMass Boston.
Larry Zilliox (09:52):
Okay, and so you're done with school and you
say I'm going to go finddinosaurs in the ground, right?
Caroline (10:00):
We get that a lot.
Unfortunately, we're notdinosaurs.
We like working withpaleontologists, but we do all
of the stuff that people leftbehind.
Larry Zilliox (10:13):
So when you came right out of college with this
degree, the idea was to go rightinto the curation aspect of it.
Caroline (10:22):
I've always loved the curation part of it.
I have done the excavation partand it's a whole lot of fun.
I just don't like to be outsidethat long, every day, all day.
So the AC is very nice.
But yeah, there's somethingabout curation that really,
really interested me.
I've always loved doing thepublic education side of it as
(10:43):
well.
This isn't just stuff, there'sthe story behind it and the
whole point is to tell thosestories.
So this job I was just as luckyas Gabby was too.
It just kind of opened up andit allowed me to do both things.
Things have the people side ofthings and help tell those
(11:07):
stories, but also be current andbe present for the veterans and
then also do the nerd stuff inthe AC at the same time.
Larry Zilliox (11:11):
Wow.
So in my mind, the way thisworks, and it's probably wrong,
but I'm just going to say youhave the folks that find the
artifacts Could be dinosaurs orcould be I don't know pictures
in an attic, could be importantdocuments from our national
history, could be any number ofthese things and they're like,
(11:33):
yay, we found it.
Now what do we do with it?
Give it to a curator.
You guys take it, make sureit's in good shape and then
archive it so that a thirdperson comes along and uses it
for research or tries to figureout.
You know how it fits intoeverything.
Is that pretty close to whatyou all do?
Are you like in the middlethere, or just kind of
(11:54):
cataloging and safeguarding andmaking sure it's available to I
don't know universities orwherever anybody wants to study
it?
I don't know universities orwherever anybody who wants to
study it.
Caroline (12:04):
Yeah, so a lot of that , definitely.
So we, as I mentioned, we areunder the US Army Corps of
Engineers.
They own a lot of land in theUnited States and by law, before
you do some kind of development, if it's a federal, they call
it an undertaking is a fancyterm, but basically any federal
(12:26):
money land project, you have toconsider the historic resources
that you're going to impactbefore you do the project,
resources that you're going toimpact before you do the project
.
So anytime that USACE wants tobuild a dam or do a modification
for an army base, say, theyhave to consider those resources
first.
And that generates a lot ofreports, a lot of archaeology.
(12:50):
There's the stuff that is foundin the ground, but there's also
all of the paperwork that again, hollywood does not show you.
We are archaeologists, we arescientists, we love
documentation.
There is a form for everythingand Gabby has all of them, but
there are, depending upon theproject, that material goes
(13:15):
somewhere where, depending uponthe project, that material goes
somewhere.
And you say they have adepartment called Mandatory
Center of Expertise and they dida study, I think 10 or so years
ago, and they looked at whereall of the Army Corps things
were around the country and theydid a consolidation project to
try to get them down to acertain number of storage areas
(13:36):
and in that they identified alot of collections that are in
need of care.
So some things might have beenexcavated in, say, the 1980s and
they've sat on a shelf for 40,50 years.
A lot can happen in that time.
So, water damage to the boxes,or maybe things weren't put in
archivally safe containers.
(13:57):
So USAID has identified all ofthose and that's where the VCP
comes in.
We have offices around thecountry and so different
collections are sent to the VCPoffices and we do that
stabilization.
The veteran technicians aretrained to again do basic
(14:17):
identification and put them inarchivally safe containers,
digitize those objects throughphotography or through scanning.
That package then can go towherever USACE wants it to go
(14:41):
next.
So that might be back to USACE,it might be back to a
university, it might be to astate museum.
It just depends upon thecollection.
Larry Zilliox (14:48):
So are the collections that you all work on
?
Let me ask you this, gabby, arethey public?
I mean, let me ask you this,gabby, are they public?
I mean, so much of what thegovernment does is public
information, but are thecollections, once you're
finished with them, available toa university or a school
(15:09):
somewhere?
How much of it is digitized?
Let me just ask you that.
Gabi (15:15):
Well, that's a really good question.
That's exactly what we're doingat the VCP.
We are accomplishing that goal.
And so on my side of the lab,all of the documents, the photos
, reports, the field documents,we have maps, we have background
records All of that stuff isgoing to be organized, situated.
We do some light cleaning andmending situated.
(15:38):
We do some light, cleaning andmending.
So we will remove like staplesand flatten things out.
But everything will bedigitized and it will go in a
database and the idea is we'regoing to put it in a order that
the future Caroline, whensomeone with her background
that's working on a project ordoing research, could easily
access any part of thatcollection through the database
(15:58):
with its corresponding scan asfar as, like that public side of
things it's going to be basedon, like the repository of
whatever their plan is for it.
So we won't really have a say inthat.
Usace will give us theinformation as far as final
repository and we'll ship it out.
The part that we're playing init is making it accessible.
Larry Zilliox (16:19):
And then that final decision will be made at a
later date, mm-hmm.
Well, I want to direct ourlisteners to the webpage which
is theveteranscurationprogramorg, and
go to that webpage, take a lookand can a veteran I don't know
what to say is this sign up?
Is this apply to be in theprogram through the webpage?
Gabi (16:44):
So if you head over to our webpage, there is a how to
apply button.
You can pop in.
It'll bring you to theapplication process.
It's going to ask you which labyou would like to apply to and
so you can put all four labs inthere.
You can put the one closest toyou.
We do consider all veterans,but we do have a preference due
(17:10):
to how our program is running.
We do have a preference forpost 9-11 or anywhere 1990 and
prior.
Once those spots are filled up,we do have a preference for
post 9-11 or anywhere 1990 prior.
Once those spots are filled up,we open it up to just about
anybody.
So each lab.
I think right now we have sixtechnicians in our lab.
San Mateo is a smaller lab sothey're going to take a little
(17:30):
less.
Augusta is a beautiful lab.
It's in like an historicbuilding so they can take about
the same as us.
So once you pick your lab ofinterest, we accept applications
year round.
We do keep track of all of thatwhat.
We will start interviews forour next session around October
(17:53):
and that session will start inNovember.
Larry Zilliox (17:55):
Okay, so November for six months, five, five
months, and then another one.
Gabi (18:01):
And then in April we do it all over again.
Larry Zilliox (18:03):
Right, okay, so is it roughly 12 people a year.
Gabi (18:08):
I would say anywhere between 12 to like 20.
Our numbers prior to COVID weremuch higher, and so we are
rebuilding our network and weare looking at I think San Mateo
is our newest lab and St Louisis going through some changes or
they just finished goingthrough some changes, and so
there was a lot of shiftinggoing on with the program and I
(18:31):
think everything's settling down.
We're looking at each session.
How many more veterans can wehelp?
It's the hours are going to bebased on veteran need and what
is feasible.
Like the whole goal of theVeterans Curation Program is to
help the veterans be in a betterposition than when they first
came to us, and so some veterans, you know they need that 30 to
(18:55):
40 hour a week, and so that'sgoing to pull away from how many
people we can take in our lab.
Some veterans can only do 20hours a week, and so we do
consider all of that as far asthe veteran need, because we
want able to do two sessions ayear.
If we can't select you thistime, always, please reapply so
(19:20):
that we can try and allow youinto the space.
Larry Zilliox (19:23):
So for our local listeners, what are the lab
opportunities here locally atthe Alexandria facility?
Gabi (19:31):
Since I've been a part of the ALX lab, we have had
anywhere between six to, I think, 10 or 11 in one session at a
time.
Larry Zilliox (19:40):
Okay, and are they doing photographs?
Are they doing documents?
Are they doing cyber tooth,tiger tooths or whatever you
brought here Listeners?
I wish you could see it, butthey have a box with some really
cool stuff in it which I'lllook at later.
I don't want to take up ourlisteners' time with me kind of
ogling stuff they can't see.
But yeah, what would they dohere in Alexandria, caroline?
Caroline (20:04):
So we have three different parts of the lab in
terms of processing.
There is the artifact side ofthings that I am the manager for
and we do basic identification.
We enter things into an Exceldatabase.
One of our assistant managerswill run the photography lab, so
(20:26):
she will teach technicians howto take all different kinds of
photos with a museum-qualitycamera and they can earn a
photography proficiencycertificate from the Veterans
Curation Program at the end ofthe session if they choose to do
that.
And then the other side of thelab is the archives.
(20:46):
So that will be with Gabby andour other assistant manager
teaching them how to scandocuments, digitize everything,
scan documents, digitizeeverything.
We have some photographs andall kinds of odd documents that
they will learn how to process.
And then we didn't touch onkind of the second part of the
program, but I'll let Gabby pickup the professional growth and
(21:08):
development part.
This is a really special thingthat we just started.
Larry Zilliox (21:13):
And so, as a veteran who applies and gets
accepted into the program,they're going to hit each one of
those elements.
They're not going to be justonly one where they focus on
just archives or justphotography.
They're going to do a stint ineach one of those.
Caroline (21:29):
Yes, they will be trained in all of them.
We try to keep somebody'spreference into account, but
it's not always possible,depending upon the directives
that we are given.
So they do kind of float whenthey can, but everybody is
responsible for completing theirprofessional growth and
development hours referring tois every after the first month.
Gabi (21:57):
That's typically dedicated to the archaeologist, giving
them a crash course intoarchaeology, anthropology, a lot
of the regulations that must wemust follow to process these
collections.
We then, after that first month, it's called professional
growth and development.
It's time paid in lab to workon resumes, linkedin's.
We can do mock interviews withthem.
(22:18):
They could apply to jobs.
If they need to do securityclearance paperwork, they can
work on that.
They can go to hiring fairs,virtual or in person.
These are all things that wecan pay them to do while in the
lab.
It is super beneficial of havingexperienced the VCP as a
technician.
It really does make adifference to have managers that
(22:40):
have wonderful resumes and aneducational background that can
sit with you and kind ofbrainstorm what your goals are
and explore creative ways to getthere or traditional ways to
get there.
We've also had VSOs come intoour space and we have guest
speakers where they have theopportunity to do one-on-ones
(23:01):
with those VSOs.
We've had guest speakers thatare like the DAV, the DVS.
We've also had some moreinteresting kind of not so
focused on the job portion butfocused on Caroline's background
and Caroline's field of workthat we can show to the veterans
just in case there is aninterest in the field.
(23:22):
But they're not really sure howto get into it, so we do.
Field trips is another reallycool part of the program.
So it kind of turns out thatthe nerds no other nerds so we
can go and visit museums, getsome VIP tours.
We've gone to some reallyinteresting places and really
get a hands-on experience in away that I wouldn't think I
(23:45):
would have had without the BCP.
Larry Zilliox (23:47):
Right, right.
So I apply and I get accepted,and I'm there for five months
and I've learned each one ofthese things.
Where do I go next?
What do I do?
What is this getting me readyfor?
What kind of job?
I mean, it sounds like it'slike two steps above a
philosophy degree.
I mean, it doesn't.
(24:12):
There's not this isn't a bigfield.
There's not, you know, a hugedemand for archivists, because
these days people don't hang onto stuff.
I mean, let's face it,unfortunately, or it's already
all digitized, yeah.
So yeah, where am I going afterI go through this?
Caroline (24:29):
Yeah, we're not out to make archaeologists to make
archaeologists.
We looked at the past couple ofyears and really only a handful
of technicians in theAlexandria lab have gone on to
museum fields.
That's what they wanted to do.
So I think the short answer iswhatever you want to do we're
going to help you get there.
We've had technicians go onagain to those museum jobs but a
(24:52):
lot of our technicians go on tolike HR or IT positions.
We've had really any any joband we are kind of that, that
boost or that stabilization.
Whatever that technician needs,we can help them find grants
for future schools.
We can help them network.
(25:13):
We can send cold emails all dayLike we do not mind doing that.
Whatever resources they need,be it personal or professional,
we are going to help them getthose for whatever field.
Larry Zilliox (25:25):
So I've got to believe that a lot of this
training can translate intotheir lives and affect whatever
employment they seek, especiallywhen it comes to researching
things, whether it's where to goeat, whether it's documenting
things.
Everybody finds themselves inneed of documenting their life
(25:47):
when they're buying a house ortrying to keep track of any
number of things, and it justsounds like this would be
excellent training for veteranswho one aren't sure what they're
going to do.
So this is a job and gives themsome space to figure out what
they're going to do, gives themsome skills that they can use in
(26:07):
their next employment, and Ijust think this is just a
fantastic program.
Again, listeners, it'sveteranscurationprogramorg.
I have two more questions.
One is you have 10 peopleyou're going to do.
How many people apply?
(26:28):
What are we looking at?
Gabi (26:30):
Initially, when I first joined the management team.
When I first joined themanagement team, we were looking
around 20 to 30 applicationsand then Caroline and I had
spent a lot of time trying torebuild our network and really
expand that.
Like I said previously, if Ican't take you right now in this
(26:50):
session, I'm going to throw youinto the pot for the next one.
And so the most recent one was,I think, over 35.
So we are moving forward withthat goal.
We want to make sure that theword is getting out and people
are at least able to sit with usand talk to us to learn more
(27:11):
about the program, because it iskind of an odd program.
We're not a skill bridge, we'renot an internship or a
fellowship.
We're not trying to makearchaeologists.
We're trying to do exactly whatyou said give them transferable
skills for the next job usingthe archaeology.
And so, in my opinion, I wouldlove to see around 40 to 50
(27:32):
applications in the next yearper session 40 to 50
applications in the next yearper session really widen that up
.
And so, although if I can't takeyou right now and you kind of
share what your interests are oryou have questions, it doesn't
stop us from being able to sendyou resources or to connect you
with someone that would be areally good fit for whatever
(27:53):
your goals are.
Larry Zilliox (27:54):
Sure, well, you know, it sounds like you're at
like a 25, 28% acceptance rate,which beats most colleges.
You see around 4% if you'relucky Listeners.
The other thing I want tostress, too, is that this is a
private company.
This is a company that has acontract with the United States
government.
So when I direct you to thiswebpage that has a contract with
(28:17):
the United States government,so when I direct you to this
webpage, you will be relievedthat I'm not telling you to hit
that donate button.
Every veteran serviceorganization that we talk about,
I always direct everybody to gohit that button, donate.
But you don't need to do thatthis time.
Just go and read the webpage,think about it for yourself.
(28:37):
Or if you have a relative or afriend or somebody that you work
with who's struggling a littlebit and hasn't really found
their footing in your particularcareer field, please refer them
to this.
Send them the link for this andmaybe it'll work for them.
You know, the more we can getthe word out, we want to broaden
(28:58):
that pool of applicants, forsure.
My last question I'm going togive this same question to each
of you.
So, caroline, where do you see,or how do you see, artificial
intelligence impacting yourcareer field.
Caroline (29:12):
Oh gosh, it is a tool.
It's a very, very powerful tool.
I tell this to veterans in theprogram who may have used AI to
help them write a resume.
That's great, but it is a tooland you are controlling the tool
(29:34):
.
So the same thing forarchaeology AI can do some very
powerful things.
Ground penetrating radar can dosome very powerful things, but
it's not like we're not at a,you know, a Hollywood movie
where the AI is taking overright.
There's always going to be thehuman using it to accomplish a
(29:55):
goal, to answer a question, totell a story.
Larry Zilliox (29:58):
Gabby, what about you Really on the archival?
I mean, I could really see itcould impact on modeling for one
thing, but also in justreviewing very large sets of
data to find correlations.
That is hard for humanssometimes to see.
(30:19):
But what do you think will bethe impact in the coming years?
Gabi (30:24):
I mean, I do see a benefit in using AI, or the potential
of using AI, to gatherinformation about a collection
and creating patterns or seeinga trend.
But as far as what myexperience is with archiving,
there's so many ways to organizea collection it really is going
(30:47):
to depend on the collectionitself, the notes that the
previous archaeologists wrotedown.
It's almost like a puzzle, andif you're looking at it just one
way to set a pattern, you maybe missing the bigger picture
that the original researchersand archaeologists were
intending, and so you don'treally want to put a personal
(31:07):
bias, but I would also argue youwouldn't want to put a
artificial intelligence bias toit either.
I think that human factor isreally going to matter when
looking at these collections,seeing what they found, looking
at their initial interpretations, talking to someone 60 years
(31:28):
after the excavation, likeCaroline looking at it and
seeing what her interpretationis on it.
I don't think that AI couldreplace something like that.
I think that there's just aspecial thing that humans have
that cannot be replaced.
Larry Zilliox (31:42):
Right, well, fascinating.
The whole thing is justfascinating to me, and I can't
thank you enough for making thetrip out here from Alexandria.
I know it's not fardistance-wise, but time-wise
it's quite a ways.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I really appreciate it.
Gabi (32:00):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, Larry.
I do want to just let you knowand invite you.
We do have an event coming up.
Larry Zilliox (32:07):
Oh, yes, tell us about that.
Gabi (32:09):
For sure.
Yeah, it's in July.
Our theme is an ice creamsocial.
We have six tablers currentlywith different veteran
organizations that handledifferent parts of veterans
needs.
Our veteran technicians will bethere to kind of share their
experiences.
Do some demonstrations of thework that we have.
We'll have a resume reviewtable.
(32:29):
One of our admin members wouldjoin us to take that over.
Fortunately, we were donatedfour tickets to a DC United game
and it's not a raffle.
We're not going to ask for anymoney.
The way to sign up for that isto come into the lab, sign into
our sign-in sheet and then we'llpull a name out and announce
(32:49):
the winner.
But it's between 2 and 5 onJuly 25th we're going to open
the lab to the public, so weinvite any veteran to come in,
or if you are a service memberthat is getting ready to
transition to become a veteran,please come into the lab, come
see the space we're going tohave some of our collection out
that you guys can take a look at.
(33:12):
Our assistant lab manager thatruns our photo lab will be doing
demonstrations in there andit's a really good, I think,
intro into that veterancommunity space.
Larry Zilliox (33:19):
Wow, wow.
Well, it sounds awesome.
There'll be plenty of coolthings to do, and ice cream, I
mean really if that doesn't grabyou, I don't know what does,
especially in July.
Absolutely, You'll be ready forice cream, for sure.
Well, listen, thank you so much.
I can't thank you enough forcoming out and sitting down with
(33:41):
us.
This has been great Well forour listeners.
We'll have another episode nextMonday morning at 0500.
For those of you who'd like toget up early and listen to
podcasts, you can find us onmost major podcast platforms.
We're also on YouTube andWreaths Across America Radio.
Thanks for listening.
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