Navigating New Beginnings: Peter Baker on Military Transition and Finding Community in Civilian Life
December 16, 2024 • 25 mins
Retired Army Colonel Peter Baker joins us to unravel the challenges and opportunities of transitioning from military service as an officer. Imagine standing at the crossroads of duty and personal freedom, deciding when to leave the structured life of the military behind. Peter candidly shares his journey, emphasizing the emotional weight of retirement ceremonies and the critical steps of planning for life after service. Discover how resources like the GI Bill and veteran organizations can be pivotal in navigating this life-changing transition. Together, we explore the personal stories and strategic decisions that define this complex phase.
As we steer through the transition into civilian careers, we focus on the unique hurdles veterans face, like translating leadership skills into corporate success and adapting to a slower-paced decision-making environment. Northern Virginia emerges as a hotspot, with veterans often finding roles in defense companies or exploring new passions, like teaching or coaching. Peter's insights on negotiation could redefine your approach to the job market, from salary discussions to flexibility negotiations. Plus, we reflect on the camaraderie veterans miss and the potential to find a similar sense of community in civilian workplaces. This episode is a must-listen for anyone contemplating a new chapter beyond military life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and I want to thank
everybody for joining us forthis.
This is the last episode ofSeason 2, and I have a very
special guest with us todayRetired Army Colonel Peter Baker
(00:21):
.
I've known him for quite sometime, and I realized in my
previous episodes where we weretalking about transitioning, I
had inadvertently been focusingon enlisted and I thought that
it would be great to have Petercome on and talk to us a little
bit about the difference,because there is always a
(00:41):
difference between enlistedseparating and officers
transitioning.
So, peter, welcome to thepodcast.
Peter Baker (00:51):
Well, larry, thank you for having me, and I think
what you're doing here, and thewhole retreat and the whole
organization, is a real serviceto our veterans.
And for those who aren'tfamiliar with it, I encourage
you to look up.
Serve, our World Lawyer, andyou're for local.
You can come involved with it.
It's a great organization doinggreat things.
Larry Zilliox (01:10):
Yeah, we are very fortunate we have such a strong
volunteer corps, many of whichare veterans who live in the
area.
We do have quite a few veteransalmost 55,000 veterans living
in this area here in PrinceWilliam County and Loudoun and
Fairfax.
So let's begin with talking alittle bit about your career
(01:33):
when you went in, what you weredoing when you got out, why you
got out.
So start from the beginning.
Peter Baker (01:40):
I used to have a boss who told me that's always a
good place to start.
Amazing, a lot of times peoplewould start in the middle or at
the end.
But it was commissioned in 1983, and for some that may be like
a century ago.
I retired in 2010,.
27 years active duty Again.
2010 may seem like a centuryago for a lot of people.
For me, it seemed like a fewyears ago.
(02:00):
Time does go fast.
Yeah, I never intended to makea military career, but I got
into it and people joined for alot of different reasons.
I joined for educationalopportunities and paid for my
undergrad, and I paid for mygrad school as well.
But I think the most difficultpart, whether you're enlisted or
(02:23):
an officer, is deciding when toget out.
Larry Zilliox (02:25):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (02:25):
Perhaps your enlistment time is up and you
have to decide whether tore-enlist and stay in, or you've
gone the length of your tourand there's various reasons to
get out.
It's a very personal decisionand I found a very lonely
decision.
Hopefully nobody tells you, hey, you need to get out.
(02:50):
And even your family who hasbeen raised my boys and my wife,
they're used to the tempo sothey didn't matter if I stayed
in or got out.
The decision to leave themilitary, I think, is a very.
For me it was the mostdifficult decision because
there's no wrong answer, there'sno indicator saying you should
(03:11):
or you shouldn't, and it's very,very personal.
But once I made it I stilldoubted myself for quite a while
.
In the transition again, thereare some similarities.
I'm sure there are differencesbetween enlisted and officers
and I'll talk about myexperience and why.
It may be dated, I think it'sstill relevant.
There are a few things I thinkyou ought to be involved before
you ever leave.
And where do you want to retireto?
(03:34):
It may be where your currentduty station is.
For my case, I had two boys inhigh school, one just started in
college.
I decided to stay here InNorthern Virginia.
There's also a lot ofopportunity in Northern Virginia
and not far from my hometown.
But you may want to move andyou may want to check out.
If you're not moving back toyour hometown, you may want to
go there on a vacation, on someleave, and start looking at that
(03:57):
.
You can do a lot of this online.
Look at the housing market, butif you're going to retire where
you're at, then that makes it alittle bit easier.
But if you're going to retirewhere you're at, then that makes
it a little bit easier.
I also encourage those whoretire most bases, most weather,
which service you're in have aretirement ceremony.
I retired out of the Pentagon.
(04:17):
My retirement ceremony was atFort Myers, virginia, and I
encouraged everybody.
Even prior to coming here, Iwas stationed at Fort Sillac,
oklahoma, and I encouragedeverybody who was retiring to go
to the retirement ceremony.
If you don't want to do it, doit for yourself.
Do it for your family.
It's one of the last timesyou're going to be in uniform.
It's going to be the last timeyour children, your wife, your
husband are going to see you inuniform or your parents, and do
(04:40):
it for them.
I ended up doing it as well andI'm glad I did.
So I really encourage do theretirement.
And as you're doing thistransition, I found out recently
and that is still the same asit was when I was in you can
transfer your GI Bill to afamily member.
Larry Zilliox (04:58):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (04:58):
I just talked to a Navy captain, colonel 06, who
retired.
He's been retired four years.
Never knew about that.
Make sure you attend all yourretirement briefings.
Larry Zilliox (05:11):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (05:11):
You don't know what you don't know unless you go,
and I highly encourage it.
When you get retired, when youretire, go through the medical
process.
I had the American Legionassist me to submit my paperwork
.
They're professionals, theyknow it, it's routine for them.
You could do it yourself, butyou'll do it for the first time.
(05:32):
You may get it right, you maynot.
There are differentorganizations, veteran
organizations, that will assistyou with this.
Again, mine was American Legionand they were wonderful, easy.
Larry Zilliox (05:41):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (05:42):
I highly encourage that you may get some disability
benefits you don't even knowabout and that goes much more.
The disability benefits.
There was much more in thedisability pay but it goes to
the VA loan if you have adisability.
So highly encourage that youhave to prepare for a transition
to retire or leave the servicebefore you leave the service
(06:06):
position to retire or leave theservice before you leave the
service.
Larry Zilliox (06:08):
So what was the catalyst for you?
What was the point?
I know, did your career fieldhave a reenlistment bonus?
Peter Baker (06:12):
No.
Larry Zilliox (06:13):
Okay, so neither did mine.
Yeah, yeah, I had a buddy's sonhaving dinner with one time.
He was going back and forthabout was it going to reenlist?
You know, he had like 12 yearsin, I thought, and he just he
wasn't sure.
And then he mentioned he was anAir Force sergeant.
And he mentioned that in hiscareer field, which he worked
(06:35):
with, satellites, there was a$62,000 reenlistment bonus.
I said, but you're out of yourmind.
If you don't reenlist, you knowfor me and as for you, they
just said, fine, how do you do?
And here's a ticket home.
But if you're in a career fieldthat has a reenlistment bonus,
I think you really do have togive some pretty serious
(06:57):
consideration to that.
Peter Baker (07:00):
And I will make a plug here too, and I'm glad you
brought that up, blair.
I really didn't appreciate themedical benefits when you retire
and there's a difference ofretiring before 20 and after 20,
and it's significant.
The military benefits aresignificant.
I would ask some of yourcivilian friends who are not
(07:21):
veterans or who don't have thatmedical retirement it's part of
our compensation.
If you hit 20 years, you'reeligible for it and it's
significant.
My criteria and again, it'svery individual.
I had a good friend of mine said, in fact, if he works for two
people in a row that he had ahard time with, he'd retire.
I was going to be looking atit's 27 years and I had two boys
(07:45):
in high school and didn't wantto move the family again and I
was at the point in time where Iwas going to go and take a
geographical bachelor tour.
I think I felt as though I hadfun and the opportunities for me
to transition were probablygood.
Now that's a little bit ofhindsight.
(08:05):
It turned out very well becausethere was a company that was
just starting to form the time Iwas retiring.
But again, there's no wronganswer, it's a gut feeling.
Larry Zilliox (08:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Peter Baker (08:18):
I would solicit the people who you work for get
their input and let them knowyou're thinking about leaving.
They may have some insights,you know.
They may say, well, they wantto hang in here for another two
months.
If there's a promotion board orsomething, yeah, and talk to
your family.
They may have some very, verydefinitive ideas for it.
Larry Zilliox (08:41):
I like the idea of talking to those that you
work with and who you work for,because they may have
connections on the outside.
They may say my cousin'slooking for people, you've got a
security clearance.
You can't let that go.
It's golden in the NorthernVirginia area, so you never know
(09:03):
who people know, right, right,and so don't make it a secret.
Don't try to say, oh, I don'twant anybody to know I'm leaving
.
You know, I don't want aceremony, I just want to.
I'm going to put my time and Igot early leave, I'm out of here
.
You know I'm short, I got amonth and two days.
So because once you, once youleave, you left, you're gone,
(09:28):
you're on your own.
You've got to do everything foryourself.
The military is not there togive you whatever you need, yeah
, and so it can be a littledaunting.
What was it like for you whenyou left, when you came out?
I'll share a little daunting.
What was it like for you whenyou left, when you came out?
Peter Baker (09:45):
I'll share a little story.
So I was in after duty.
I go to Korea for an exercise.
I've been there.
Ultra Focus Lens is one of them.
I've been there quite a fewdifferent times, never staged,
but I was there.
You go, you're in the villageand you land.
There's someone there at theplane, greets you and says
follow me, you know everything'staken care of.
There's someone there at theplane, greets you and says
(10:06):
follow me, you know everything'staken care of.
I retire and my son is livingin south korea.
So I go, I get off of the plane.
There's nobody there, likewho's there calling my name?
I was saying I'll just go overhere.
Yeah, so your part.
When you start right from themilitary, you're alone.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah, I was very alone, nobodygive you a ride.
Larry Zilliox (10:23):
No, nobody tell you where.
Okay, here you are at a real.
It's you know, and the chowhall's over there 20 million
people in Seoul and I was alone.
Peter Baker (10:33):
Oh my.
God.
So I again, when I startedthinking about it and you got to
tell people and my boss andother mentors I've had and
coworkers you know, they saidwell, they didn't really have a
definitive answer.
You know, maybe you ought tostay or maybe you shouldn't,
because to them I was coming up,I could serve only until 30
(10:54):
years as a colonel and I wantedit to be my decision.
I didn't want to say to theArmy Army says well, you hit 30
years, now I have to leave,which is fine for others, they
want to serve as long as theycan and that's fine.
But I finally made a decisionand in that transition, as I say
, go to all the briefings andeverything else to prepare you
for it and let everybody elseand you're going to hear one
(11:15):
word, larry already mentioned itin some sense networking.
Larry Zilliox (11:20):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (11:20):
And it starts before you leave, just as you
said, you don't know what peopleknow and what they're looking
for.
But when you do and now you'reon terminal leave I would
encourage you.
I just sort of stumbled uponthis idea because you run into
people at varied places at timesand you get talking about this
or that.
I went ahead and just wentonline and had a business card,
(11:41):
my name and my telephone andemail address.
I had a business card, my nameand my telephone and email
address.
So if I run into somebody, westarted having a discussion
about employment oropportunities or whatever it may
be, I had something to give tothem.
Larry Zilliox (11:51):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (11:52):
And they had something that they could take
away, and I would take it.
You know, get the materialwhere they can write notes on
the back of the card and that'sjust a tangible connection you
have.
And I found I don't know if itworked or not, but I at least
felt as though I was puttingmyself in the best position to
stay connected.
Yeah, it can't hurt.
It cannot hurt right, yeah.
(12:13):
Yeah, and it's very, veryexpensive.
And friends that I knew whoworked for companies while I was
active duty and they heard Iwas retiring and they said, hey,
you ought to consider this andso, and then you apply.
Larry Zilliox (12:26):
So how did you find your career field and what
you had done for the bulk of 27years, translating into civilian
life?
Well, how did that go?
Peter Baker (12:39):
This is probably a significant difference between
enlisted and officer.
At least as an artilleryman, Iwould say I didn't have any hard
technical skills.
Most of our enlisted do havehard technical skills, even if
it's in HR, or they have somemarketable skills that they
(12:59):
learned in the Army as anofficer.
Leadership isn't completelyone-for-one transferable.
There are plenty ofopportunities to succeed in that
and there's also maybe anopportunity where a lot of
people will gravitate towardswhat they're comfortable with,
what they've been trained in,and a lot of people in Northern
Virginia go work for a defensecompany.
There's a lot of them out there.
(13:21):
They're large or small.
They're always looking forpeople.
Subway's current mentions thesecurity clearance very valuable
and that's a well-worn path.
But you may also want to lookat this opportunity to do
something that you're passionateabout.
A friend of mine retired as anarchival officer.
He was a colonel and he decidedto go teach math in high school
(13:41):
and he wanted to be a baseballcoach and that for him that was
his retirement job teaching mathand becoming a baseball, high
school baseball coach.
Others want to go in businessfor themselves, yeah.
So it's an opportunity thatvery few people ever have to
recreate themselvesprofessionally when you're
looking for a job, it's becauseyou need money, or you're
(14:05):
younger and you have to get acareer going, or you have some
obligations.
But now, when you serve 20 plusyears, you have an opportunity
to look back and maybe you andyour spouse want to do something
together in business.
So I throw a wide net andreally reflect upon what you're
passionate about and your skillsand what you can afford to do
(14:28):
or afford not to do.
Again, I didn't have thetechnical skills to market
myself, other than I ended upgoing into business development,
again very well-worn path forofficers for a defense company.
And I knew about defensecompany only because I had known
one of the civilians VicePresident there through the Army
work, which is casual Army work, and we got to know each other.
(14:50):
Again, it's just coincidental,they started a company here in
Northern Virginia at the sametime.
I was like transition.
Two things I would say.
One, everything's negotiable Inthe Army.
It's not.
There's no negotiation in theArmy, not at all.
Negotiable In the Army.
It's not.
There's no negotiation in theArmy, not at all.
And if things are negotiable,it may be salary, it may be the
company car, it may be workingfrom home nowadays two days a
(15:14):
week.
Be creative and especially ifyou're looking at two or three
or four other companies andthey're going to give you offers
, then maybe you want more money, or maybe you want more
flexibility, or maybe you wantmore money, or maybe you want
more flexibility, or maybe youwant more vacation time.
So I would say, push theenvelope and say, you know,
until they say, well, we reallywant you here, but we don't
(15:34):
really allow 60 days of vacation, sure.
Larry Zilliox (15:39):
But they may allow 45 and you don't know that
you don't know that, and that'swhy it's always negotiable.
Peter Baker (15:45):
You can work from home three days a week, or
whatever it may be.
Again, you got to get a littlecreative and find out where you
really want to be.
Maybe you want to go to workevery day.
There's some different values.
There's, again, no wrong orright answer for that.
Yeah, so negotiate with that.
And it's much more than justabout money.
(16:07):
The other thing is get ready toslow down.
The one thing I it wasfrustrating, and in the Army and
I'm sure it's all the otherservices there's certainly a
hurry up and wait, oh yeah, butyou sort of know that and
decisions can come quick andthen the execution may take a
little bit.
But in the civilian world Ifound decisions are slow, slow,
(16:31):
slow, slow, even when you thinkthey have all the information.
You just need to make adecision and let's get on with
it.
And that includes the hiringprocess.
There is a season to hire.
It pretty much follows theschool season.
A lot of people tend to hirelarge hiring in late spring.
That's probably the mostsignificant one.
(16:53):
The next one is in September,august, september, and then
there are others that will do itin January if that's their new
fiscal year, but it's also atiming there.
Now.
I applied I think I applied forthe job in May and I got an
offer in September and wesolidified and agreed to terms
(17:15):
by October.
Summer is a different meetingin the civilian world.
Larry Zilliox (17:20):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (17:21):
And people are going to take vacations, leave,
and they're going to go on andthey're not nearly as in a hurry
as much as you are.
Right yeah, so I would justtemper your expectations.
The military in a lot ofregards, you're on a boilerplate
in the military.
You know if you do this, thisis going to happen and you know
what reactions.
And it's not the same in thecivilian world, right, right.
Larry Zilliox (17:45):
Patience, patience.
What's the one thing you missthe most about the Army?
Peter Baker (17:50):
Oh, I think this is probably again camaradership
for sure at all levels.
The tribe yeah, you're really.
You're really, and that's oneof the things why I joined the
Army, why I joined the field.
I tell you why I stayed.
You're really on a team.
You're not doing anything byyourself in the Army.
You're part of a team andyou're contributing to that team
(18:11):
and it's significant, and youhave great teammates and you
accomplish things together.
You're part of something biggerthan yourself.
That can certainly happen inthe civilian world.
In the corporate world it canless of an opportunity, but it
does.
I ended up being on a small teamthat we won some contracts and
(18:33):
I ended up bringing differentvalues to the table.
One guy had the technicalexpertise in the product.
I had the tactical expertise.
I could talk to the customerabout what they wanted and what
they didn't want.
It gave credibility.
So when we're talking to thecustomer about what they wanted
and what they didn't want, gavecredibility.
So when we're talking to thecustomer about this product.
And then someone else had thebudgetary.
(18:57):
So as a team, we did very, verywell and I realized that I did
have again, not hard technicalskills, but I had knowledge, and
it's another thing I discovered.
I didn't know how it's anotherthing I discovered.
I didn't know how much I knewuntil I left the Army, yeah, and
started talking to other people.
See, I know about this program,I know about that program, I
know about this product, I knowthe goods and bad about this
product, and so that became avaluable asset that I could
(19:19):
provide to the company andactually to the customer.
Larry Zilliox (19:22):
Well, nobody sells product better to the
military than ex-military.
It's plain and simple andthat's why all these contractors
and all these companies inNorthern Virginia, business
development is a wide open field, because they have the
expertise to make the product.
(19:42):
They have the expertise to dothe software, to do everything.
It doesn't matter how good yourproduct is If people aren't
buying it.
You're not going to be aroundvery long and that's a perfect
field for an officer really.
Peter Baker (19:53):
You're absolutely right.
I mean, I know everybody in themilitary knows what works and
what doesn't work, and then whatdoesn't work doesn't stay
around long, if it ever gotthere to begin with.
And what works?
Well, you got just a handful ofcompetitors and you're going to
be able to separate thosecompetitors.
Maybe a cost, maybe aperformance.
Performance may be range, itmay be weight, it may be other
things, but when you've been inthe military long enough, you
(20:18):
bring that tactical expertise tothe table.
Larry Zilliox (20:21):
Yeah, yeah, if you haven't used that product,
you've seen one probably prettysimilar, and you know it worked.
It didn't work, uh, it didn'twork at the time we needed it.
The most is usually the way itgoes.
But well, I'm with you.
I think most veterans willagree the thing they miss the
most is the tribe, it's the,it's the people that they served
(20:43):
with Um.
You know, I got out in 83, andI'm still in touch with a lot of
them.
Oh right, you know, it's acloseness that you don't get in
civilian life, and I think it'sone of the reasons why some
veterans have troubletransitioning.
Peter Baker (20:59):
No doubt I have friends who got out in 83, and
they got out maybe 87.
Still very much contact as well.
Knew them since 83.
And we have shared experiencesin the military.
On that team you go through thesame weather and the same
(21:21):
heartaches and, whatever thesadness part of it, or the
victories, the losses, you sharethat, and that's what part of
being a team is.
When you leave the Army, you'reno longer part of it.
Or for the victories and losses, you share that and that's what
part of being a team is.
When you leave the army, you'reno longer part of that.
Larry Zilliox (21:35):
and any, any victories you may have, uh, are
going to be shared by if you'reself-employed, by you, yeah,
yeah, or a very few people yeah,um, I was self-employed and I
uh, the only benefit that Icould see to that for me was I
was employee of the year forseven, eight consecutive years.
(21:56):
I mean, it was a record, therewas no doubt about it, but it
just didn't seem to impress manypeople.
Peter Baker (22:02):
Just a few other things.
I just jogged my memory.
Other things you can beprepared to do is join
organizations, whether they'reveterans organizations,
something that you find interestin.
Again, do it genuinely, but itall goes apart in networking.
Yeah, and there's alsoprofessional organizations there
, not just the American Legion Imentioned before, but the MOA
(22:24):
Military Officer Association ofAmerica.
Yeah, military OfficerAssociation of America.
Larry Zilliox (22:27):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (22:27):
They offer resume reviews that are free for
everybody and they offer a jobfair at least twice a year, I
think, throughout the countryCertainly they do in Northern
Virginia and DC and take thoseopportunities to go there, have
your resume looked at and again.
Now it's different.
Now it's all digital, so you'vegot to make sure you have the
(22:48):
right buzzwords in there so thatthe computer picks up on it and
when you do land that firstinterview, think about what you
want to say before you get there.
It's just again.
It's like going in front of apromotion board or going through
a process that you've done inthe Army.
It's very personal, but takeadvantage of those organizations
.
They are there, exist becausewe're veterans helping veterans,
(23:11):
and what I'm familiar with mostis MOA and I'm not here to
applaud them, but a very goodorganization that you may find
some usefulness.
Larry Zilliox (23:21):
There are a lot of resources available to help
veterans with many issues, frommental health, housing, job
placement, just all sorts, soyou don't have to do it alone,
right yeah?
Peter Baker (23:33):
And I get a newsletter from the state of
Virginia Department of VA.
I'm sure every state has aDepartment of VA and it's
another source, like I said, jobplacement or mental health or
health, whatever the issue maybe.
So take advantage of what isthere for you as a veteran.
Larry Zilliox (23:54):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm glad you mentioned theVirginia Department of Veteran
Services.
As we wrap up here, listeners,again, thank you so much for
sticking with us through seasontwo and we'll be back.
We take two weeks off duringthe holidays, but we'll be back
(24:14):
with the first episode of seasonthree.
We'll be in January and ourguest for that will be
Commissioner Chuck Zingler, thecommissioner of the Virginia
Department of Veterans Services.
So we're looking really forwardto that.
Peter, thank you so much forjoining us.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Baker (24:34):
Larry, I've enjoyed it as well.
Larry Zilliox (24:35):
So for our listeners.
We'll see you in January forseason three.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and I want to thank
everybody for joining us forthis.
This is the last episode ofSeason 2, and I have a very
special guest with us todayRetired Army Colonel Peter Baker
(00:21):
.
I've known him for quite sometime, and I realized in my
previous episodes where we weretalking about transitioning, I
had inadvertently been focusingon enlisted and I thought that
it would be great to have Petercome on and talk to us a little
bit about the difference,because there is always a
(00:41):
difference between enlistedseparating and officers
transitioning.
So, peter, welcome to thepodcast.
Peter Baker (00:51):
Well, larry, thank you for having me, and I think
what you're doing here, and thewhole retreat and the whole
organization, is a real serviceto our veterans.
And for those who aren'tfamiliar with it, I encourage
you to look up.
Serve, our World Lawyer, andyou're for local.
You can come involved with it.
It's a great organization doinggreat things.
Larry Zilliox (01:10):
Yeah, we are very fortunate we have such a strong
volunteer corps, many of whichare veterans who live in the
area.
We do have quite a few veteransalmost 55,000 veterans living
in this area here in PrinceWilliam County and Loudoun and
Fairfax.
So let's begin with talking alittle bit about your career
(01:33):
when you went in, what you weredoing when you got out, why you
got out.
So start from the beginning.
Peter Baker (01:40):
I used to have a boss who told me that's always a
good place to start.
Amazing, a lot of times peoplewould start in the middle or at
the end.
But it was commissioned in 1983, and for some that may be like
a century ago.
I retired in 2010,.
27 years active duty Again.
2010 may seem like a centuryago for a lot of people.
For me, it seemed like a fewyears ago.
(02:00):
Time does go fast.
Yeah, I never intended to makea military career, but I got
into it and people joined for alot of different reasons.
I joined for educationalopportunities and paid for my
undergrad, and I paid for mygrad school as well.
But I think the most difficultpart, whether you're enlisted or
(02:23):
an officer, is deciding when toget out.
Larry Zilliox (02:25):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (02:25):
Perhaps your enlistment time is up and you
have to decide whether tore-enlist and stay in, or you've
gone the length of your tourand there's various reasons to
get out.
It's a very personal decisionand I found a very lonely
decision.
Hopefully nobody tells you, hey, you need to get out.
(02:50):
And even your family who hasbeen raised my boys and my wife,
they're used to the tempo sothey didn't matter if I stayed
in or got out.
The decision to leave themilitary, I think, is a very.
For me it was the mostdifficult decision because
there's no wrong answer, there'sno indicator saying you should
(03:11):
or you shouldn't, and it's very,very personal.
But once I made it I stilldoubted myself for quite a while
.
In the transition again, thereare some similarities.
I'm sure there are differencesbetween enlisted and officers
and I'll talk about myexperience and why.
It may be dated, I think it'sstill relevant.
There are a few things I thinkyou ought to be involved before
you ever leave.
And where do you want to retireto?
(03:34):
It may be where your currentduty station is.
For my case, I had two boys inhigh school, one just started in
college.
I decided to stay here InNorthern Virginia.
There's also a lot ofopportunity in Northern Virginia
and not far from my hometown.
But you may want to move andyou may want to check out.
If you're not moving back toyour hometown, you may want to
go there on a vacation, on someleave, and start looking at that
(03:57):
.
You can do a lot of this online.
Look at the housing market, butif you're going to retire where
you're at, then that makes it alittle bit easier.
But if you're going to retirewhere you're at, then that makes
it a little bit easier.
I also encourage those whoretire most bases, most weather,
which service you're in have aretirement ceremony.
I retired out of the Pentagon.
(04:17):
My retirement ceremony was atFort Myers, virginia, and I
encouraged everybody.
Even prior to coming here, Iwas stationed at Fort Sillac,
oklahoma, and I encouragedeverybody who was retiring to go
to the retirement ceremony.
If you don't want to do it, doit for yourself.
Do it for your family.
It's one of the last timesyou're going to be in uniform.
It's going to be the last timeyour children, your wife, your
husband are going to see you inuniform or your parents, and do
(04:40):
it for them.
I ended up doing it as well andI'm glad I did.
So I really encourage do theretirement.
And as you're doing thistransition, I found out recently
and that is still the same asit was when I was in you can
transfer your GI Bill to afamily member.
Larry Zilliox (04:58):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (04:58):
I just talked to a Navy captain, colonel 06, who
retired.
He's been retired four years.
Never knew about that.
Make sure you attend all yourretirement briefings.
Larry Zilliox (05:11):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (05:11):
You don't know what you don't know unless you go,
and I highly encourage it.
When you get retired, when youretire, go through the medical
process.
I had the American Legionassist me to submit my paperwork
.
They're professionals, theyknow it, it's routine for them.
You could do it yourself, butyou'll do it for the first time.
(05:32):
You may get it right, you maynot.
There are differentorganizations, veteran
organizations, that will assistyou with this.
Again, mine was American Legionand they were wonderful, easy.
Larry Zilliox (05:41):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (05:42):
I highly encourage that you may get some disability
benefits you don't even knowabout and that goes much more.
The disability benefits.
There was much more in thedisability pay but it goes to
the VA loan if you have adisability.
So highly encourage that youhave to prepare for a transition
to retire or leave the servicebefore you leave the service
(06:06):
position to retire or leave theservice before you leave the
service.
Larry Zilliox (06:08):
So what was the catalyst for you?
What was the point?
I know, did your career fieldhave a reenlistment bonus?
Peter Baker (06:12):
No.
Larry Zilliox (06:13):
Okay, so neither did mine.
Yeah, yeah, I had a buddy's sonhaving dinner with one time.
He was going back and forthabout was it going to reenlist?
You know, he had like 12 yearsin, I thought, and he just he
wasn't sure.
And then he mentioned he was anAir Force sergeant.
And he mentioned that in hiscareer field, which he worked
(06:35):
with, satellites, there was a$62,000 reenlistment bonus.
I said, but you're out of yourmind.
If you don't reenlist, you knowfor me and as for you, they
just said, fine, how do you do?
And here's a ticket home.
But if you're in a career fieldthat has a reenlistment bonus,
I think you really do have togive some pretty serious
(06:57):
consideration to that.
Peter Baker (07:00):
And I will make a plug here too, and I'm glad you
brought that up, blair.
I really didn't appreciate themedical benefits when you retire
and there's a difference ofretiring before 20 and after 20,
and it's significant.
The military benefits aresignificant.
I would ask some of yourcivilian friends who are not
(07:21):
veterans or who don't have thatmedical retirement it's part of
our compensation.
If you hit 20 years, you'reeligible for it and it's
significant.
My criteria and again, it'svery individual.
I had a good friend of mine said, in fact, if he works for two
people in a row that he had ahard time with, he'd retire.
I was going to be looking atit's 27 years and I had two boys
(07:45):
in high school and didn't wantto move the family again and I
was at the point in time where Iwas going to go and take a
geographical bachelor tour.
I think I felt as though I hadfun and the opportunities for me
to transition were probablygood.
Now that's a little bit ofhindsight.
(08:05):
It turned out very well becausethere was a company that was
just starting to form the time Iwas retiring.
But again, there's no wronganswer, it's a gut feeling.
Larry Zilliox (08:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Peter Baker (08:18):
I would solicit the people who you work for get
their input and let them knowyou're thinking about leaving.
They may have some insights,you know.
They may say, well, they wantto hang in here for another two
months.
If there's a promotion board orsomething, yeah, and talk to
your family.
They may have some very, verydefinitive ideas for it.
Larry Zilliox (08:41):
I like the idea of talking to those that you
work with and who you work for,because they may have
connections on the outside.
They may say my cousin'slooking for people, you've got a
security clearance.
You can't let that go.
It's golden in the NorthernVirginia area, so you never know
(09:03):
who people know, right, right,and so don't make it a secret.
Don't try to say, oh, I don'twant anybody to know I'm leaving
.
You know, I don't want aceremony, I just want to.
I'm going to put my time and Igot early leave, I'm out of here
.
You know I'm short, I got amonth and two days.
So because once you, once youleave, you left, you're gone,
(09:28):
you're on your own.
You've got to do everything foryourself.
The military is not there togive you whatever you need, yeah
, and so it can be a littledaunting.
What was it like for you whenyou left, when you came out?
I'll share a little daunting.
What was it like for you whenyou left, when you came out?
Peter Baker (09:45):
I'll share a little story.
So I was in after duty.
I go to Korea for an exercise.
I've been there.
Ultra Focus Lens is one of them.
I've been there quite a fewdifferent times, never staged,
but I was there.
You go, you're in the villageand you land.
There's someone there at theplane, greets you and says
follow me, you know everything'staken care of.
There's someone there at theplane, greets you and says
(10:06):
follow me, you know everything'staken care of.
I retire and my son is livingin south korea.
So I go, I get off of the plane.
There's nobody there, likewho's there calling my name?
I was saying I'll just go overhere.
Yeah, so your part.
When you start right from themilitary, you're alone.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah, I was very alone, nobodygive you a ride.
Larry Zilliox (10:23):
No, nobody tell you where.
Okay, here you are at a real.
It's you know, and the chowhall's over there 20 million
people in Seoul and I was alone.
Peter Baker (10:33):
Oh my.
God.
So I again, when I startedthinking about it and you got to
tell people and my boss andother mentors I've had and
coworkers you know, they saidwell, they didn't really have a
definitive answer.
You know, maybe you ought tostay or maybe you shouldn't,
because to them I was coming up,I could serve only until 30
(10:54):
years as a colonel and I wantedit to be my decision.
I didn't want to say to theArmy Army says well, you hit 30
years, now I have to leave,which is fine for others, they
want to serve as long as theycan and that's fine.
But I finally made a decisionand in that transition, as I say
, go to all the briefings andeverything else to prepare you
for it and let everybody elseand you're going to hear one
(11:15):
word, larry already mentioned itin some sense networking.
Larry Zilliox (11:20):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (11:20):
And it starts before you leave, just as you
said, you don't know what peopleknow and what they're looking
for.
But when you do and now you'reon terminal leave I would
encourage you.
I just sort of stumbled uponthis idea because you run into
people at varied places at timesand you get talking about this
or that.
I went ahead and just wentonline and had a business card,
(11:41):
my name and my telephone andemail address.
I had a business card, my nameand my telephone and email
address.
So if I run into somebody, westarted having a discussion
about employment oropportunities or whatever it may
be, I had something to give tothem.
Larry Zilliox (11:51):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (11:52):
And they had something that they could take
away, and I would take it.
You know, get the materialwhere they can write notes on
the back of the card and that'sjust a tangible connection you
have.
And I found I don't know if itworked or not, but I at least
felt as though I was puttingmyself in the best position to
stay connected.
Yeah, it can't hurt.
It cannot hurt right, yeah.
(12:13):
Yeah, and it's very, veryexpensive.
And friends that I knew whoworked for companies while I was
active duty and they heard Iwas retiring and they said, hey,
you ought to consider this andso, and then you apply.
Larry Zilliox (12:26):
So how did you find your career field and what
you had done for the bulk of 27years, translating into civilian
life?
Well, how did that go?
Peter Baker (12:39):
This is probably a significant difference between
enlisted and officer.
At least as an artilleryman, Iwould say I didn't have any hard
technical skills.
Most of our enlisted do havehard technical skills, even if
it's in HR, or they have somemarketable skills that they
(12:59):
learned in the Army as anofficer.
Leadership isn't completelyone-for-one transferable.
There are plenty ofopportunities to succeed in that
and there's also maybe anopportunity where a lot of
people will gravitate towardswhat they're comfortable with,
what they've been trained in,and a lot of people in Northern
Virginia go work for a defensecompany.
There's a lot of them out there.
(13:21):
They're large or small.
They're always looking forpeople.
Subway's current mentions thesecurity clearance very valuable
and that's a well-worn path.
But you may also want to lookat this opportunity to do
something that you're passionateabout.
A friend of mine retired as anarchival officer.
He was a colonel and he decidedto go teach math in high school
(13:41):
and he wanted to be a baseballcoach and that for him that was
his retirement job teaching mathand becoming a baseball, high
school baseball coach.
Others want to go in businessfor themselves, yeah.
So it's an opportunity thatvery few people ever have to
recreate themselvesprofessionally when you're
looking for a job, it's becauseyou need money, or you're
(14:05):
younger and you have to get acareer going, or you have some
obligations.
But now, when you serve 20 plusyears, you have an opportunity
to look back and maybe you andyour spouse want to do something
together in business.
So I throw a wide net andreally reflect upon what you're
passionate about and your skillsand what you can afford to do
(14:28):
or afford not to do.
Again, I didn't have thetechnical skills to market
myself, other than I ended upgoing into business development,
again very well-worn path forofficers for a defense company.
And I knew about defensecompany only because I had known
one of the civilians VicePresident there through the Army
work, which is casual Army work, and we got to know each other.
(14:50):
Again, it's just coincidental,they started a company here in
Northern Virginia at the sametime.
I was like transition.
Two things I would say.
One, everything's negotiable Inthe Army.
It's not.
There's no negotiation in theArmy, not at all.
Negotiable In the Army.
It's not.
There's no negotiation in theArmy, not at all.
And if things are negotiable,it may be salary, it may be the
company car, it may be workingfrom home nowadays two days a
(15:14):
week.
Be creative and especially ifyou're looking at two or three
or four other companies andthey're going to give you offers
, then maybe you want more money, or maybe you want more
flexibility, or maybe you wantmore money, or maybe you want
more flexibility, or maybe youwant more vacation time.
So I would say, push theenvelope and say, you know,
until they say, well, we reallywant you here, but we don't
(15:34):
really allow 60 days of vacation, sure.
Larry Zilliox (15:39):
But they may allow 45 and you don't know that
you don't know that, and that'swhy it's always negotiable.
Peter Baker (15:45):
You can work from home three days a week, or
whatever it may be.
Again, you got to get a littlecreative and find out where you
really want to be.
Maybe you want to go to workevery day.
There's some different values.
There's, again, no wrong orright answer for that.
Yeah, so negotiate with that.
And it's much more than justabout money.
(16:07):
The other thing is get ready toslow down.
The one thing I it wasfrustrating, and in the Army and
I'm sure it's all the otherservices there's certainly a
hurry up and wait, oh yeah, butyou sort of know that and
decisions can come quick andthen the execution may take a
little bit.
But in the civilian world Ifound decisions are slow, slow,
(16:31):
slow, slow, even when you thinkthey have all the information.
You just need to make adecision and let's get on with
it.
And that includes the hiringprocess.
There is a season to hire.
It pretty much follows theschool season.
A lot of people tend to hirelarge hiring in late spring.
That's probably the mostsignificant one.
(16:53):
The next one is in September,august, september, and then
there are others that will do itin January if that's their new
fiscal year, but it's also atiming there.
Now.
I applied I think I applied forthe job in May and I got an
offer in September and wesolidified and agreed to terms
(17:15):
by October.
Summer is a different meetingin the civilian world.
Larry Zilliox (17:20):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (17:21):
And people are going to take vacations, leave,
and they're going to go on andthey're not nearly as in a hurry
as much as you are.
Right yeah, so I would justtemper your expectations.
The military in a lot ofregards, you're on a boilerplate
in the military.
You know if you do this, thisis going to happen and you know
what reactions.
And it's not the same in thecivilian world, right, right.
Larry Zilliox (17:45):
Patience, patience.
What's the one thing you missthe most about the Army?
Peter Baker (17:50):
Oh, I think this is probably again camaradership
for sure at all levels.
The tribe yeah, you're really.
You're really, and that's oneof the things why I joined the
Army, why I joined the field.
I tell you why I stayed.
You're really on a team.
You're not doing anything byyourself in the Army.
You're part of a team andyou're contributing to that team
(18:11):
and it's significant, and youhave great teammates and you
accomplish things together.
You're part of something biggerthan yourself.
That can certainly happen inthe civilian world.
In the corporate world it canless of an opportunity, but it
does.
I ended up being on a small teamthat we won some contracts and
(18:33):
I ended up bringing differentvalues to the table.
One guy had the technicalexpertise in the product.
I had the tactical expertise.
I could talk to the customerabout what they wanted and what
they didn't want.
It gave credibility.
So when we're talking to thecustomer about what they wanted
and what they didn't want, gavecredibility.
So when we're talking to thecustomer about this product.
And then someone else had thebudgetary.
(18:57):
So as a team, we did very, verywell and I realized that I did
have again, not hard technicalskills, but I had knowledge, and
it's another thing I discovered.
I didn't know how it's anotherthing I discovered.
I didn't know how much I knewuntil I left the Army, yeah, and
started talking to other people.
See, I know about this program,I know about that program, I
know about this product, I knowthe goods and bad about this
product, and so that became avaluable asset that I could
(19:19):
provide to the company andactually to the customer.
Larry Zilliox (19:22):
Well, nobody sells product better to the
military than ex-military.
It's plain and simple andthat's why all these contractors
and all these companies inNorthern Virginia, business
development is a wide open field, because they have the
expertise to make the product.
(19:42):
They have the expertise to dothe software, to do everything.
It doesn't matter how good yourproduct is If people aren't
buying it.
You're not going to be aroundvery long and that's a perfect
field for an officer really.
Peter Baker (19:53):
You're absolutely right.
I mean, I know everybody in themilitary knows what works and
what doesn't work, and then whatdoesn't work doesn't stay
around long, if it ever gotthere to begin with.
And what works?
Well, you got just a handful ofcompetitors and you're going to
be able to separate thosecompetitors.
Maybe a cost, maybe aperformance.
Performance may be range, itmay be weight, it may be other
things, but when you've been inthe military long enough, you
(20:18):
bring that tactical expertise tothe table.
Larry Zilliox (20:21):
Yeah, yeah, if you haven't used that product,
you've seen one probably prettysimilar, and you know it worked.
It didn't work, uh, it didn'twork at the time we needed it.
The most is usually the way itgoes.
But well, I'm with you.
I think most veterans willagree the thing they miss the
most is the tribe, it's the,it's the people that they served
(20:43):
with Um.
You know, I got out in 83, andI'm still in touch with a lot of
them.
Oh right, you know, it's acloseness that you don't get in
civilian life, and I think it'sone of the reasons why some
veterans have troubletransitioning.
Peter Baker (20:59):
No doubt I have friends who got out in 83, and
they got out maybe 87.
Still very much contact as well.
Knew them since 83.
And we have shared experiencesin the military.
On that team you go through thesame weather and the same
(21:21):
heartaches and, whatever thesadness part of it, or the
victories, the losses, you sharethat, and that's what part of
being a team is.
When you leave the Army, you'reno longer part of it.
Or for the victories and losses, you share that and that's what
part of being a team is.
When you leave the army, you'reno longer part of that.
Larry Zilliox (21:35):
and any, any victories you may have, uh, are
going to be shared by if you'reself-employed, by you, yeah,
yeah, or a very few people yeah,um, I was self-employed and I
uh, the only benefit that Icould see to that for me was I
was employee of the year forseven, eight consecutive years.
(21:56):
I mean, it was a record, therewas no doubt about it, but it
just didn't seem to impress manypeople.
Peter Baker (22:02):
Just a few other things.
I just jogged my memory.
Other things you can beprepared to do is join
organizations, whether they'reveterans organizations,
something that you find interestin.
Again, do it genuinely, but itall goes apart in networking.
Yeah, and there's alsoprofessional organizations there
, not just the American Legion Imentioned before, but the MOA
(22:24):
Military Officer Association ofAmerica.
Yeah, military OfficerAssociation of America.
Larry Zilliox (22:27):
Yeah.
Peter Baker (22:27):
They offer resume reviews that are free for
everybody and they offer a jobfair at least twice a year, I
think, throughout the countryCertainly they do in Northern
Virginia and DC and take thoseopportunities to go there, have
your resume looked at and again.
Now it's different.
Now it's all digital, so you'vegot to make sure you have the
(22:48):
right buzzwords in there so thatthe computer picks up on it and
when you do land that firstinterview, think about what you
want to say before you get there.
It's just again.
It's like going in front of apromotion board or going through
a process that you've done inthe Army.
It's very personal, but takeadvantage of those organizations
.
They are there, exist becausewe're veterans helping veterans,
(23:11):
and what I'm familiar with mostis MOA and I'm not here to
applaud them, but a very goodorganization that you may find
some usefulness.
Larry Zilliox (23:21):
There are a lot of resources available to help
veterans with many issues, frommental health, housing, job
placement, just all sorts, soyou don't have to do it alone,
right yeah?
Peter Baker (23:33):
And I get a newsletter from the state of
Virginia Department of VA.
I'm sure every state has aDepartment of VA and it's
another source, like I said, jobplacement or mental health or
health, whatever the issue maybe.
So take advantage of what isthere for you as a veteran.
Larry Zilliox (23:54):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm glad you mentioned theVirginia Department of Veteran
Services.
As we wrap up here, listeners,again, thank you so much for
sticking with us through seasontwo and we'll be back.
We take two weeks off duringthe holidays, but we'll be back
(24:14):
with the first episode of seasonthree.
We'll be in January and ourguest for that will be
Commissioner Chuck Zingler, thecommissioner of the Virginia
Department of Veterans Services.
So we're looking really forwardto that.
Peter, thank you so much forjoining us.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Baker (24:34):
Larry, I've enjoyed it as well.
Larry Zilliox (24:35):
So for our listeners.
We'll see you in January forseason three.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
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