October 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Anthony Dyer's journey from loading weapons to manning the guns of one of the world's most intimidating aircraft reveals the extraordinary path of a combat aviator in special operations. As a retired Air Force Combat Special Missions Aviator who served aboard the legendary AC-130 gunship, Dyer takes us inside a world few civilians ever glimpse.
The conversation opens with Dyer's early career decisions, initially following his father's footsteps into the Air Force as a weapons loader before cross-training as a firefighter. It wasn't until a pivotal moment of self-reflection that Dyer made the life-changing decision to pursue special operations aviation. "I don't want to leave cracks, I want to leave craters," he recalls thinking, a powerful metaphor for seeking greater impact through his service.
Listeners gain unprecedented access to the technical marvels of the AC-130 gunship, an aircraft Dyer describes as "NASCAR with a gun." He explains how this modified cargo plane flies in a left-hand "pylon turn" with its arsenal—including a 105mm howitzer that recoils 49 inches—mounted on the aircraft's left side. The crew coordination required to operate this complex weapons system while supporting special forces on the ground offers a masterclass in precision under pressure.
The emotional weight of 14 deployments becomes evident as Dyer opens up about the psychological toll of combat operations. His candid discussion of developing an alcohol dependency during his final year of service and the ultimatum from his wife that pushed him toward recovery provides a raw look at the hidden battles many veterans face. The transition challenges—from the seemingly simple adjustment to civilian clothing to the profound loss of purpose—resonate with veterans of all eras.
Dyer's book "Moon Child: The Roots and Wings of a USAF Combat Special Missions Aviator" emerged from therapy sessions where writing became a healing tool. His vulnerability in sharing both triumphs and struggles has created a powerful connection with readers who find comfort in his message that "it's okay not to be okay." For anyone fascinated by military aviation, interested in special operations, or seeking to understand the veteran experience, this conversation offers invaluable insights from someone who's lived at the tip of America's spear.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
LarryZilliox (00:15):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run.
This week our guest is AnthonyDyer.
He is a retired Air ForceSpecial Operations Aviation
Mission Specialist who crewed ona number of different aircraft,
(00:36):
but the one that I'm the mostinterested in is the AC-130,
which is a um gunship that we'llwe'll talk a lot about.
I had the uh good fortune oftouring one uh once many years
ago when I was stationed onGuam.
We only saw one, don't evenknow why it was out there.
He is the author of a brand newbook that's just come out
(00:57):
called Moon Child, The Roots andWings of a USAF Combat Special
Missions Aviator.
So, Anthony, welcome to thepodcast.
AnthonyDyer (01:08):
Hey, that thanks for having me, Larry.
It's a privilege and honor tobe here, man.
Thank you.
LarryZilliox (01:12):
So I always ask my guests, usually it's why did
you join the Army or the Navyinstead of the Air Force?
Uh, because as an Air Forceveteran, I'm always curious
about that.
I know from my own experienceand being with Army and on Army
bases and being uh at the Navybase in Guam and on board a ship
(01:32):
for a tour and seeing how theylive.
I was always thankful that Ijoined the Air Force.
But uh, why did why did youjoin the Air Force?
AnthonyDyer (01:41):
Yeah, so uh I turned uh you know 17 already
turned 18 my last year in uh inhigh school there.
And you know, my dad gave methe typical, you know,
dad-to-son talk there, like alot of us probably had, but it
was like, you know, you're atthis age, it's time to either
get a job, go to college, or getout, you know.
And I and I didn't want to nineto five, and I definitely
didn't want to go to college.
And, you know, so at first Italked to a Navy recruiter, and
(02:03):
he was talking about being on aboat for six months, and then I
talked to an army recruiter,then I talked to my dad, and you
know, he uh he was in the AirForce for four years down at um
McDill there.
This is way before I was born.
But you know, he's told meabout the quality of life and uh
honestly the quality of peoplein the Air Force, and you know,
at that point I know I had adecision to make, and uh, you
know, a couple months later Iwas on my my flight to San
Antonio, Texas, there July 18thof 2000, and uh basic training.
(02:26):
Did you go into the Air Forcethinking you wanted to fly?
So I that's a good question.
So I I knew that aviation, likein some way, even at my uh
young age, I'd end up gettinglike a uh helicopter flight in
the Blue Ridge Mountains upthere or pigeonforge that area
to the sea.
And um, you know, I was reallyyoung at that point.
And um I knew at some point inthat moment that aviation in
(02:46):
some way, shape, or form wouldtake uh, you know, take a big
part of my life.
And I want to be a part ofthat.
And I, you know, I didn't comein as a uh as a special missions
aviator, as aero gunner, asthey used to call us, but I came
in as a weapons loader and Idid that for five years and then
um firefighting for five years,and then 2010, you know, I get
to this uh, I guess it's anotherfork in the road, and I'm
actually home on leave in asmall town and at a pizza parlor
(03:09):
and you know I look out and youknow I see the same cracks in
the road, man.
And you know, what I'm gettingat is like the same people doing
the same thing, you know, andyou know, I realize at that
moment that you know I don'twant to leave cracks, I want to
leave craters, and you know, atthat point made a decision to to
get in the fight, if you will,not sit on the sideline and and
find the mighty uh AC Metropygunship, as you mentioned, and
uh uh the mighty 16th SpecialOperations Squadron.
LarryZilliox (03:30):
Yeah, and so you cross-trained, you could it
sounds like you cross-trainedthree times.
I I did, yeah, yeah.
AnthonyDyer (03:36):
So technically three different jobs there.
So uh, you know, in 2010 I didthe uh it was called the uh NCO
Corp uh retraining program backthen.
And um, you know, they give youa list of jobs you qualify for.
I had to retake the ASBAB andgot my score up there, and then
um you know I had one choice andone choice on, and it was uh,
you know, aerial gunner.
LarryZilliox (03:55):
And so what did you think about being an Air
Force firefighter?
AnthonyDyer (04:00):
Yeah, so it's it's not what a a lot of people may
think, you know, it's um it's agood thing, but there's there's
not that much action, if youwill, and like, you know,
everything on base is so firesafe, you know.
And um, I may have seen likethree structure fires the the
whole time I did that, but youknow, it was uh we're really
cool.
We had a firehouse with theguys, man, a lot of a lot of
pranks, a lot of jokes, you namea lot of cooking.
(04:20):
Um it was back then, you know,24 on, 24 off, and then every
two weeks you get what you callthe Kelly Day.
That'd be your three days offin a row.
So a lot of downtime, a lot offunny moments, and then when it
was time to work, we worked.
LarryZilliox (04:32):
Right.
When you decided tocross-train, you you looked at
flying, and did you pick the AC130 gunship or or were you
thinking about maybe a blackhawk or something else?
AnthonyDyer (04:45):
Yeah, so I uh I knew that I wanted to be in um
like like special operations,you know, and in some way, you
know, shape or form, and Iphysically like I realistically
couldn't be like an operator, soI was like, what's the next
best thing?
You know, I was like makingsure those guys get home on the
ground, right?
And uh so I chose AC-130, andthen I had the Pavehawk as the
the second was so right.
LarryZilliox (05:04):
So if you would for our uh listeners uh that who
might not be familiar with theAC 130 gun chip is, it's um it's
a crazy plane, there's no otherplane in the world like it, and
it has a tremendous amount offirepower just built into the
aircraft, including a uh crewserved 105 howitzer.
(05:27):
Um so yeah, tell uh tell ourlisteners what this plane is all
about and what it's used for.
AnthonyDyer (05:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So the AC-130, uh sort sort ofthe the main purpose of it is to
provide that that timely andprecise, that close air support
for the unconventional forces.
And what I mean by that is likeyou know, your seals, usually
your green berets, your rangers,uh, you know, jobs like that,
the guys on the ground.
And then um, you're basicallygiving that close air support
with uh, like you mentioned, uh105 Howitzer, you know, and um
(05:55):
really it's a beautiful thing,man.
Back then we had 13 crewmembers all working together,
and then we had four gunnersback then to get that, you know,
that 10 rounds per minute out,which I know that seemed like a
lot, but man, you could imaginebeing on the business end of
that, you know, on the ground,just seeing that firepower.
And then back then we also hada 40 mil Beauforce cannon, and
what the Air Force did was youknow, they took uh back in the
(06:16):
day in like the Vietnam era,like an anti-aircraft gun, a 40
mil Beauforce for the Navy, andthey put it on the side of this
uh this cargo aircraft, and theAC-130, you know, the A stands
for attack and then sees thecargo.
So it's uh basically it's likeuh you know, I leave every
mission like uh looking like acoal miner from all the you know
the soot and uh stuff likethat.
But right it's it's reallyyeah, it's it's a really fun
(06:38):
job, man.
I it was probably probably myfavorite best job I ever had,
honestly.
LarryZilliox (06:42):
What did it sound like when you fire uh a 105
howitzer inside of a plane likethat?
AnthonyDyer (06:48):
Yeah, so the so it recoils 49 inches, just uh you
know, that's the maximally loudto sort of paint a picture.
And it was like if you were toput a tank cannon on the side of
a this cargo aircraft, youknow, and even with with foamies
in and then your flight helmet,like it's still still pretty
loud, you know what I mean?
And um, yeah.
What's unique about it thoughis like a lot of people ask if
it moves the aircraft, you know,and like sure, you know, you
(07:10):
you'll be in this left-handbank, you know, it's like NASCAR
with a gun, you know, and it'llit'll recoil the ship a plane
of ship, I believe it's like 10degrees or something like that
in the orbit.
LarryZilliox (07:18):
So that was my next question, too.
And and so all these weaponsare mounted on the left side of
the aircraft.
AnthonyDyer (07:28):
Correct, yes.
LarryZilliox (07:28):
Yeah, and and that's why you're flying in that
left uh circle.
AnthonyDyer (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, the the the left hand uh turn is uh
often referred to as the pylonturn.
And um, you know, basically thethe pilots fly in this perfect
circle, you know, uh orbitingthe the the operation area, you
know.
Speaker 01 (07:45):
Right.
AnthonyDyer (07:46):
You know, you're at a pretty good bank angle, so
you're doing all this at night,you know, blacked out, stuff
like that, so the enemy can't,you know, see you, and the the
biggest rule in gunship and islike when shooting expect to be
fired upon, you know.
So yeah.
Um yeah, it was uh a lot ofcrew coordination, a lot of what
we call crew resourcemanagement, but basically the
comms between uh all of us andthe guys on the ground.
(08:06):
And um, yeah, man, as I'velearned like in this job,
there's like sometimes it's notall black and white, you know,
it's not a right decision orwrong decision, but there's a
safe and unsafe, you know.
LarryZilliox (08:14):
Yeah.
What was your first deploymenton the aircraft?
AnthonyDyer (08:17):
Yeah, so my first uh uh gunship deployment was in
uh Afghanistan.
Uh we were at Bagram back inthe day for that.
And you know, back then it waslike I think it was like 90 days
on, 90 days off.
So you were, you know, by thetime you were getting back,
you're already getting ready togo again.
I'll tell people, but yeah,man, my first uh first
deployment, man, it was uh itwas it was started out really
slow, you know what I mean?
(08:38):
And then um that you know therewas one, you know, one
basically peaky time is what wecall it when the sun was coming
up where we had landed from oneoperation.
This is my first shoot here,and uh we were uh basically got
retasked and the pilot comesback to the back and um he's
like, hey, he's like, you know,there's a green beret team
that's pinned down.
He's like, Who's with me?
And you know, all of us, youknow, in our own way said send
me, you know, and um at thatpoint, uh we went about an hour
(09:00):
and a half or two-hour flight,and you know, I got to basically
what it was was there's threecaliban with uh explosive packs
on shooting RPGs at the at theGreen Berets, and we ended up uh
lighting them up with uh youknow 40 mil secondary, as you
name it.
So, you know, I got to thinklike, man, I got to do more than
an hour and a half flight, andI've done my whole life for the
country.
LarryZilliox (09:19):
Mm-hmm.
So are almost all the missionsat night?
Are there any daytime missions?
AnthonyDyer (09:25):
Yeah, there it it takes uh because there was a
thing that happened in in uh thedesert storm, it was called
Spirit Zero Three Flight, andwhat happened was the uh the
gunship, the age model, was shotdown.
I mean and so that led intolike, okay, we'll only fly at
night mostly, but there iswaivers and stuff like that that
you know they can get reallyfast if if it's a bad situation.
LarryZilliox (09:44):
Right.
Well, I imagine too that yourtier one operators and door
kickers are operating mostly atnight too.
AnthonyDyer (09:50):
So if you're if you're yeah, yeah, there it used
to be a patch that I rememberseeing it, and it was like we
mostly come out at night,mostly, you know.
That's sort of true, you know,every now and then there's a
there's a daytime sheet though.
LarryZilliox (10:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So how many times did youdeploy?
AnthonyDyer (10:06):
It was a total of uh 14 deployments, but two of
those were as a as afirefighter, and the rest was
all uh aerial gunner flying was.
LarryZilliox (10:13):
Wow.
And I read your book.
Let me let me just say that uhto all our listeners.
You gotta order the book.
You can get it right off ofAmazon.
It's an easy read.
I read it uh on the plane,going to Chicago and coming back
last week.
It's a great book.
It gives it really gives youinsight into the aircraft and
(10:34):
being crew member, thedeployments and the toll that it
takes on you.
Um as combat takes on all ourservice members who are
deployed.
Again, the the book is MoonChild, the roots and wings of a
U.S.
Air Force Combat SpecialMissions Aviator.
Uh, you can get it on Amazon.
(10:55):
I encourage everybody to to goget a copy.
It's uh it's a great read.
How many years were you in?
AnthonyDyer (11:01):
So it was uh 21.4 years.
Uh I retired uh uh one Decemberof 21 out of uh Canon Air Force
Base.
LarryZilliox (11:07):
Right.
So why did you decide to getout right then?
AnthonyDyer (11:11):
Yeah, so what had happened was uh so there was uh
like I didn't fly always ongunships, but uh I flew about
five years on the uh the combatsearch and rescue, the pavilion
helicopter, and and then I cameback to gunships after five
years to do my what you call youknow sunset tour.
I knew I was getting towardsthe 20.
And so basically as on my lastdeployment, it was in Iraq, man,
and like it was just it's veryslow.
(11:32):
And I and I get it now, man.
It's like these are all jobslike you you often don't want to
have to do, you know.
And if it's uh you know, ifwe're working someone's worst
day or possibly last day, I'llsay that.
And you know, but at the sametime, you want to be the guy
that to do the job when thathappens, you know.
And um, you know, I realizedthe the writing was all writing
was on the wall, it was it wascoming to an end, you know.
So I hit the retirement button.
(11:53):
And then man, I just had thisloss of just identity and you
know, sense of purpose.
That's a real thing when you'regetting out, especially when
you're reflecting on what youknow 20 something years, you
know.
And I I realized, man, likewhen you do your final out
processing appointment, man,there's uh there's no door
handling on the other side ofthat door, meaning, you know,
you can you can leave this thismachine, this air force, right?
But you can never really getback in, you know.
(12:14):
And so I knew it was over, butat the same time, you know, like
I I struggled with that and itreally developed uh to be honest
with you, the drinking problem,man.
I was drinking like a a pint anight just to go to sleep.
And you know, my wife uh sheshe recognized that and you
know, it's just uh basically theultimatum of you know, me and
your daughter or the alcohol,right?
And you know, thank God, youknow, I chose my family, and I'm
(12:35):
I'm very glad I did.
And I ended up getting uhprolonged uh therapy with like a
USOCOM psychiatrist.
You know, this was all withinmy last year, and then you know,
once I retired, man, I was uh,you know, hit the ground running
to continue my mental healthand you know, get seen and stuff
like that with the V8.
LarryZilliox (12:52):
Are you uh still in touch with a lot of guys and
gals that you served with?
AnthonyDyer (12:57):
Yeah, I I really am, honestly.
And uh this this book, man, isis it's really eye-opening.
Like, you know, I tell peopleevery veteran has a story, you
know, and um and writing to mewas was very therapeutic, you
know.
There's different platforms toget these stories out, you know,
and um, you know, part of thatprolonged therapy thing I was
talking about was you write thestory out over and over and over
and until you're basicallycomfortable being uncomfortable
(13:20):
talking about it, right?
And you know, till you know itit doesn't affect you as as much
as it did, I guess you'd say.
And then so she's like, youshould tell your story over and
over, you know.
And I kept saying no, and thenyou know, once I got out and the
dust did settle, man, I waslike, you know what, like maybe
maybe someone could get helpfrom this story, you know, if
they read this, if one persongets help, then uh that that's a
victory.
LarryZilliox (13:40):
Yeah, do you find that a lot of your peers um also
experience the same sort ofproblems and self-medicated with
alcohol or drugs?
AnthonyDyer (13:50):
Oh, 100%.
The uh, you know, I've I'vereceived a lot of almost
overwhelming amount of just liketext and messages, like, you
know, from people saying, hey,but I fluid, right?
Like, like, man, like I'vedealt with the same thing, you
know.
Thank you for for putting thisout there.
And what you'll see, and what Ithink would happen would be
like a domino effect wherepeople will start venting these
stories out, you know, bleedingthem on the page and just uh try
(14:11):
to make sense of all this, youknow, two decades of war that
ended not too long ago and etcetera.
LarryZilliox (14:16):
If I remember correctly, you were still active
duty when you self-identifiedthat you had a drinking problem.
Is that right?
AnthonyDyer (14:25):
That's correct.
Yeah, it was a you know, it wasmy last year in there, and you
know, it started off as aweekend, like, you know, here
and there type of drink to liketo a pint every night, you know,
at least just to go to sleep.
Speaker 01 (14:35):
And yeah.
AnthonyDyer (14:36):
I was just in a very bad spot, man, like a very,
you know, this vicious cycleof, you know, drinking myself to
sleep, waking up, hungover,getting through the work day,
yeah, and then just starting itall over at 4 30 p.m.
when I got off, you know.
And that's anybody that's everstruggled with addiction or
alcohol, man.
I I feel you, and if you gotthat bug, but just just keep
digging, man, keep fighting, andyou'll get it.
LarryZilliox (14:56):
So, how did your command treat you when you went
to them and said, Hey, I have aproblem, I need help?
AnthonyDyer (15:04):
Yeah, that that's one thing I would say,
especially in recent, you know,years is ESOCOM and AFSOC, uh,
all these units, there's thisthing called the preservation of
the force of family.
And with that become, you know,you get a uh there's like a
physical therapist, usually atrainer, and then like a uh
psychiatrist, you know, and theywere really open about it, you
know, and they wanted me to getseen and get better, you know.
(15:25):
They there was never an issueof like, you know, being on a
flight schedule or anything likethat.
They just wanted me to get tomy appointments and you know,
get get better.
LarryZilliox (15:34):
And so you were on restricted duty, what did they
have you doing other thangetting better?
AnthonyDyer (15:40):
Yeah, so there was uh like plans and tactics, um,
different exercises coming up,sort of the planning part of
that, you know, more admin typepaperwork, I guess you would
call it.
Speaker 01 (15:49):
Right.
AnthonyDyer (15:50):
Um, you know, and still, you know, basically in a
way mentoring still the youngerguys, you know, like maybe
recognizing that, hey, you know,if this person gets help, the
next person may get help, youknow, and to see it in like the
domino effect.
LarryZilliox (16:02):
Yeah.
Did um did you see at the time,so you you were in you were in
the Air Force way later than Iwas, but when I was in um, you
know, I I've got pretty much thesame story, been there, done
that.
And uh there was no there wasno process or procedures to help
identify airmen who may behaving troubles or problems to
(16:26):
try and help them adjust or dealwith that before they started
to self-medicate.
It was always, well, you know,it's just what we do, you know.
It's uh when I was on Guam backin the late 70s, uh, you know,
a bottle of Ron Rico rum waslike a dollar thirty-five.
The coke costs more than thealcohol.
(16:47):
You know, the Air Force is sortof known for taking over and
building a base and building theNCO club first almost.
So there was never any any kindof focus on trying to help
airmen before they developedthese kind of problems.
Did you see that or was itstill the same when you
self-identified your problem?
AnthonyDyer (17:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So there was, I mean, you know,there's still the there was
always this sort of stigma, atleast at least when I first came
in and all that, you know, andbasically like no one wants to
be the guy to to get taken offthe flight schedule or or get a
do not arm thing from yourcommander, right?
Like it's no one wants to forthat to happen.
But now it's, you know, I thinkpeople are starting to realize,
you know, and the commands arestarting to realize that that
(17:30):
there will be a time, you know,after two decades of whatever
the case may be, the trauma andstuff that comes with that,
that, you know, you're gonnahave to take that tactical knee.
And you know, it's it's moreimportant to speak up, you know,
is what sort of the the mindsetis now than it is to just to
just let it fester, you know.
LarryZilliox (17:46):
Yeah, I I I think too, you were in uh an
organization that had a lot ofstress just because of your job
that was a little bit differentthan, you know, the air ground
ground age guys or MMS who'sjust wheeling bombs out, you
know, or the maintenance guys,or you know, that there are
(18:10):
certain professions.
Now, I see we always saw a lotof guys that had problems
because they were bored.
And it wasn't due to stress, itwasn't due to combat, it's just
that they didn't have anythingelse to do.
So they partied.
But yeah, I just I do hope thattoday um the service is taking
a more uh uh active role intrying to identify airmen that
(18:35):
are in high stress positions.
And we know that in specialoperations, we know with tier
one door kickers that theyrarely self-identify because it
takes them out of the game.
And that's their whole life.
And you know, you've gotpilots, you've got aviation crew
members that they live forthis.
(18:55):
I mean, they are they having anincredible job.
These pilots flying theseplanes are incredible pilots and
um they do it because they loveit.
And so, you know, I know howhard it is.
I know how hard it was for youto say, I've got to get help.
Now you were fortunate becauseyou had a family that pushed you
(19:18):
in the right direction.
A lot of young guys don't havethat, but um what what did you
find was the hardest thing whenyou transitioned to civilian
life?
AnthonyDyer (19:30):
Yeah, it was um the you know, I didn't there was a
lot of little things like Ididn't know what business casual
was, man, and you know, walkingout the the door of the
squadron and like you know,reaching for my hat, oh yeah, I
got civilian clothes on now, andthen you know, not being able
to actually like to fly anymore,man.
Like that, you know, I loved itso much, man.
And that whole why, that wholereason to make sure those guys
(19:53):
on the ground get home, youknow, and that was, you know,
from the that point of thespear, I it was gone, you know,
and just accepting that fact andyou know, and you know, to sort
of realizing the fact that, youknow what, my legacy now is
being the best dad I could be,the best, you know, husband I
could be, the best author Icould be, whatever the case may
be, the best friend I could be,you know, and just to be there
from someone else.
(20:13):
And to me, like I sort ofchanged at least to what I
thought was relevant to to this,you know.
LarryZilliox (20:19):
Yeah, and I see, you know, transition is hard.
You know, I still I I will Idon't go out without a hat on 40
plus years later.
It just it, you know, there arethings that were instilled in
you that you still uh, you know,you still carry today and
hopefully, you know, they'regood things.
(20:40):
What do you find in commentsand people who've read the book
and reach out to you?
What are the what are theygetting out of the book?
What what is what are theysaying about their service?
AnthonyDyer (20:51):
Yeah, so the the most common feedback I get is
like it is really a short read,you know, like a Sunday read,
but uh it's uh it's an emotionalread, you know, and most people
will tell me like even people Iflu are like like you know, one
thanks for doing it, you know,and number two is like that's
the only book that made themlaugh and cry within the same
two hours, you know.
Um, but yeah, as far as thelacing, man, everybody,
honestly, people that's not evenbeen flyers have have talked to
(21:14):
me, man and said, Man, wereally appreciate the story, and
like, you know, and andencouraging people to see that
it's okay not to be okay, youknow.
So they like that aspect of it.
Yeah, take the bill off, youknow.
LarryZilliox (21:24):
Yeah.
Uh I just want to go back toone thing that you talked about.
You were flying on thehelicopter in Iraq, is that
right?
AnthonyDyer (21:30):
It was in the East Africa for that's commission.
LarryZilliox (21:33):
Were you were you guys um shuttling out PJs or
what were you doing on that?
AnthonyDyer (21:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So we were um basically onCasovac like 24-7 uh alert,
right?
And um, it was um day seven ofa seven-day out, and you know,
all was going well, man.
And like, you know, next thingyou know, I hear attention on
that scramble, scramble,scramble.
And what it was was there was40 uh special operators and then
uh most of Green Berets andthen some partner nation guys,
(22:00):
and um, they got hit by mortarsand disco fire and stuff like
that.
And you know, basically we sawthe best side of combat search
and rescue that day, meaning wesaved five lives, and and the
worst side meaning that youknow, one American, one Eagle
didn't make it back.
And you know, that definitelystuck with me.
But you know, those people likeyou know, I love them so much
to this day.
LarryZilliox (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's um you you got both ofthose things going on at the
same time.
You're saving people and you'relosing people, and it um it
does it does mess with your headfor sure.
AnthonyDyer (22:31):
Um Yeah, you know, and it's it's I've I've always
had the thought of especially inflying and stuff and in that
world, right?
It's it's not what you do, thehaunch, it's what you don't do.
And you know, the mind's atricky thing.
Like if I'd have been therefive minutes earlier, ten
minutes earlier, you know,things like that.
And you know, but coming up,you know, find out later that no
matter if we what time we'dhave got there, he took a direct
with the mortar, and once hegot back on the operating table,
(22:53):
unfortunately he passed, youknow.
But you know, I didn't knowwhat sacrifice was to that day,
man.
And you know, to witness that,you know, it's forever as to my
heart, man.
LarryZilliox (23:01):
Yeah.
Well, when you start secondguessing and play that game of
five minutes, two minutes early,uh you could have been in a
place where you took around thatdowned your whole aircraft, you
know.
So um, you know, it could havegone, it could have go either
way.
Well, listen, listeners, go toAmazon and order the book.
It's Moon Child, The Roots andWings of a USAF Combat Special
(23:24):
Mission Aviator.
It's a great book.
And uh, Anthony, I can't thankyou enough for coming on with us
today and talking all about uhyour experience uh as an Air
Force aviator and uh the book.
So thank you very much.
Really appreciate it.
AnthonyDyer (23:42):
Thank you, Larry.
I really appreciate it, man.
And I appreciate uh you knoweverything you guys do.
We're up there in Virginia,man.
You guys are awesome, man.
And uh uh we we all love youguys, man.
LarryZilliox (23:50):
So, listeners, we'll have another episode next
Monday morning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and ReathsAcross America Radio.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run.
This week our guest is AnthonyDyer.
He is a retired Air ForceSpecial Operations Aviation
Mission Specialist who crewed ona number of different aircraft,
(00:36):
but the one that I'm the mostinterested in is the AC-130,
which is a um gunship that we'llwe'll talk a lot about.
I had the uh good fortune oftouring one uh once many years
ago when I was stationed onGuam.
We only saw one, don't evenknow why it was out there.
He is the author of a brand newbook that's just come out
(00:57):
called Moon Child, The Roots andWings of a USAF Combat Special
Missions Aviator.
So, Anthony, welcome to thepodcast.
AnthonyDyer (01:08):
Hey, that thanks for having me, Larry.
It's a privilege and honor tobe here, man.
Thank you.
LarryZilliox (01:12):
So I always ask my guests, usually it's why did
you join the Army or the Navyinstead of the Air Force?
Uh, because as an Air Forceveteran, I'm always curious
about that.
I know from my own experienceand being with Army and on Army
bases and being uh at the Navybase in Guam and on board a ship
(01:32):
for a tour and seeing how theylive.
I was always thankful that Ijoined the Air Force.
But uh, why did why did youjoin the Air Force?
AnthonyDyer (01:41):
Yeah, so uh I turned uh you know 17 already
turned 18 my last year in uh inhigh school there.
And you know, my dad gave methe typical, you know,
dad-to-son talk there, like alot of us probably had, but it
was like, you know, you're atthis age, it's time to either
get a job, go to college, or getout, you know.
And I and I didn't want to nineto five, and I definitely
didn't want to go to college.
And, you know, so at first Italked to a Navy recruiter, and
(02:03):
he was talking about being on aboat for six months, and then I
talked to an army recruiter,then I talked to my dad, and you
know, he uh he was in the AirForce for four years down at um
McDill there.
This is way before I was born.
But you know, he's told meabout the quality of life and uh
honestly the quality of peoplein the Air Force, and you know,
at that point I know I had adecision to make, and uh, you
know, a couple months later Iwas on my my flight to San
Antonio, Texas, there July 18thof 2000, and uh basic training.
(02:26):
Did you go into the Air Forcethinking you wanted to fly?
So I that's a good question.
So I I knew that aviation, likein some way, even at my uh
young age, I'd end up gettinglike a uh helicopter flight in
the Blue Ridge Mountains upthere or pigeonforge that area
to the sea.
And um, you know, I was reallyyoung at that point.
And um I knew at some point inthat moment that aviation in
(02:46):
some way, shape, or form wouldtake uh, you know, take a big
part of my life.
And I want to be a part ofthat.
And I, you know, I didn't comein as a uh as a special missions
aviator, as aero gunner, asthey used to call us, but I came
in as a weapons loader and Idid that for five years and then
um firefighting for five years,and then 2010, you know, I get
to this uh, I guess it's anotherfork in the road, and I'm
actually home on leave in asmall town and at a pizza parlor
(03:09):
and you know I look out and youknow I see the same cracks in
the road, man.
And you know, what I'm gettingat is like the same people doing
the same thing, you know, andyou know, I realize at that
moment that you know I don'twant to leave cracks, I want to
leave craters, and you know, atthat point made a decision to to
get in the fight, if you will,not sit on the sideline and and
find the mighty uh AC Metropygunship, as you mentioned, and
uh uh the mighty 16th SpecialOperations Squadron.
LarryZilliox (03:30):
Yeah, and so you cross-trained, you could it
sounds like you cross-trainedthree times.
I I did, yeah, yeah.
AnthonyDyer (03:36):
So technically three different jobs there.
So uh, you know, in 2010 I didthe uh it was called the uh NCO
Corp uh retraining program backthen.
And um, you know, they give youa list of jobs you qualify for.
I had to retake the ASBAB andgot my score up there, and then
um you know I had one choice andone choice on, and it was uh,
you know, aerial gunner.
LarryZilliox (03:55):
And so what did you think about being an Air
Force firefighter?
AnthonyDyer (04:00):
Yeah, so it's it's not what a a lot of people may
think, you know, it's um it's agood thing, but there's there's
not that much action, if youwill, and like, you know,
everything on base is so firesafe, you know.
And um, I may have seen likethree structure fires the the
whole time I did that, but youknow, it was uh we're really
cool.
We had a firehouse with theguys, man, a lot of a lot of
pranks, a lot of jokes, you namea lot of cooking.
(04:20):
Um it was back then, you know,24 on, 24 off, and then every
two weeks you get what you callthe Kelly Day.
That'd be your three days offin a row.
So a lot of downtime, a lot offunny moments, and then when it
was time to work, we worked.
LarryZilliox (04:32):
Right.
When you decided tocross-train, you you looked at
flying, and did you pick the AC130 gunship or or were you
thinking about maybe a blackhawk or something else?
AnthonyDyer (04:45):
Yeah, so I uh I knew that I wanted to be in um
like like special operations,you know, and in some way, you
know, shape or form, and Iphysically like I realistically
couldn't be like an operator, soI was like, what's the next
best thing?
You know, I was like makingsure those guys get home on the
ground, right?
And uh so I chose AC-130, andthen I had the Pavehawk as the
the second was so right.
LarryZilliox (05:04):
So if you would for our uh listeners uh that who
might not be familiar with theAC 130 gun chip is, it's um it's
a crazy plane, there's no otherplane in the world like it, and
it has a tremendous amount offirepower just built into the
aircraft, including a uh crewserved 105 howitzer.
(05:27):
Um so yeah, tell uh tell ourlisteners what this plane is all
about and what it's used for.
AnthonyDyer (05:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So the AC-130, uh sort sort ofthe the main purpose of it is to
provide that that timely andprecise, that close air support
for the unconventional forces.
And what I mean by that is likeyou know, your seals, usually
your green berets, your rangers,uh, you know, jobs like that,
the guys on the ground.
And then um, you're basicallygiving that close air support
with uh, like you mentioned, uh105 Howitzer, you know, and um
(05:55):
really it's a beautiful thing,man.
Back then we had 13 crewmembers all working together,
and then we had four gunnersback then to get that, you know,
that 10 rounds per minute out,which I know that seemed like a
lot, but man, you could imaginebeing on the business end of
that, you know, on the ground,just seeing that firepower.
And then back then we also hada 40 mil Beauforce cannon, and
what the Air Force did was youknow, they took uh back in the
(06:16):
day in like the Vietnam era,like an anti-aircraft gun, a 40
mil Beauforce for the Navy, andthey put it on the side of this
uh this cargo aircraft, and theAC-130, you know, the A stands
for attack and then sees thecargo.
So it's uh basically it's likeuh you know, I leave every
mission like uh looking like acoal miner from all the you know
the soot and uh stuff likethat.
But right it's it's reallyyeah, it's it's a really fun
(06:38):
job, man.
I it was probably probably myfavorite best job I ever had,
honestly.
LarryZilliox (06:42):
What did it sound like when you fire uh a 105
howitzer inside of a plane likethat?
AnthonyDyer (06:48):
Yeah, so the so it recoils 49 inches, just uh you
know, that's the maximally loudto sort of paint a picture.
And it was like if you were toput a tank cannon on the side of
a this cargo aircraft, youknow, and even with with foamies
in and then your flight helmet,like it's still still pretty
loud, you know what I mean?
And um, yeah.
What's unique about it thoughis like a lot of people ask if
it moves the aircraft, you know,and like sure, you know, you
(07:10):
you'll be in this left-handbank, you know, it's like NASCAR
with a gun, you know, and it'llit'll recoil the ship a plane
of ship, I believe it's like 10degrees or something like that
in the orbit.
LarryZilliox (07:18):
So that was my next question, too.
And and so all these weaponsare mounted on the left side of
the aircraft.
AnthonyDyer (07:28):
Correct, yes.
LarryZilliox (07:28):
Yeah, and and that's why you're flying in that
left uh circle.
AnthonyDyer (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, the the the left hand uh turn is uh
often referred to as the pylonturn.
And um, you know, basically thethe pilots fly in this perfect
circle, you know, uh orbitingthe the the operation area, you
know.
Speaker 01 (07:45):
Right.
AnthonyDyer (07:46):
You know, you're at a pretty good bank angle, so
you're doing all this at night,you know, blacked out, stuff
like that, so the enemy can't,you know, see you, and the the
biggest rule in gunship and islike when shooting expect to be
fired upon, you know.
So yeah.
Um yeah, it was uh a lot ofcrew coordination, a lot of what
we call crew resourcemanagement, but basically the
comms between uh all of us andthe guys on the ground.
(08:06):
And um, yeah, man, as I'velearned like in this job,
there's like sometimes it's notall black and white, you know,
it's not a right decision orwrong decision, but there's a
safe and unsafe, you know.
LarryZilliox (08:14):
Yeah.
What was your first deploymenton the aircraft?
AnthonyDyer (08:17):
Yeah, so my first uh uh gunship deployment was in
uh Afghanistan.
Uh we were at Bagram back inthe day for that.
And you know, back then it waslike I think it was like 90 days
on, 90 days off.
So you were, you know, by thetime you were getting back,
you're already getting ready togo again.
I'll tell people, but yeah,man, my first uh first
deployment, man, it was uh itwas it was started out really
slow, you know what I mean?
(08:38):
And then um that you know therewas one, you know, one
basically peaky time is what wecall it when the sun was coming
up where we had landed from oneoperation.
This is my first shoot here,and uh we were uh basically got
retasked and the pilot comesback to the back and um he's
like, hey, he's like, you know,there's a green beret team
that's pinned down.
He's like, Who's with me?
And you know, all of us, youknow, in our own way said send
me, you know, and um at thatpoint, uh we went about an hour
(09:00):
and a half or two-hour flight,and you know, I got to basically
what it was was there's threecaliban with uh explosive packs
on shooting RPGs at the at theGreen Berets, and we ended up uh
lighting them up with uh youknow 40 mil secondary, as you
name it.
So, you know, I got to thinklike, man, I got to do more than
an hour and a half flight, andI've done my whole life for the
country.
LarryZilliox (09:19):
Mm-hmm.
So are almost all the missionsat night?
Are there any daytime missions?
AnthonyDyer (09:25):
Yeah, there it it takes uh because there was a
thing that happened in in uh thedesert storm, it was called
Spirit Zero Three Flight, andwhat happened was the uh the
gunship, the age model, was shotdown.
I mean and so that led intolike, okay, we'll only fly at
night mostly, but there iswaivers and stuff like that that
you know they can get reallyfast if if it's a bad situation.
LarryZilliox (09:44):
Right.
Well, I imagine too that yourtier one operators and door
kickers are operating mostly atnight too.
AnthonyDyer (09:50):
So if you're if you're yeah, yeah, there it used
to be a patch that I rememberseeing it, and it was like we
mostly come out at night,mostly, you know.
That's sort of true, you know,every now and then there's a
there's a daytime sheet though.
LarryZilliox (10:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So how many times did youdeploy?
AnthonyDyer (10:06):
It was a total of uh 14 deployments, but two of
those were as a as afirefighter, and the rest was
all uh aerial gunner flying was.
LarryZilliox (10:13):
Wow.
And I read your book.
Let me let me just say that uhto all our listeners.
You gotta order the book.
You can get it right off ofAmazon.
It's an easy read.
I read it uh on the plane,going to Chicago and coming back
last week.
It's a great book.
It gives it really gives youinsight into the aircraft and
(10:34):
being crew member, thedeployments and the toll that it
takes on you.
Um as combat takes on all ourservice members who are
deployed.
Again, the the book is MoonChild, the roots and wings of a
U.S.
Air Force Combat SpecialMissions Aviator.
Uh, you can get it on Amazon.
(10:55):
I encourage everybody to to goget a copy.
It's uh it's a great read.
How many years were you in?
AnthonyDyer (11:01):
So it was uh 21.4 years.
Uh I retired uh uh one Decemberof 21 out of uh Canon Air Force
Base.
LarryZilliox (11:07):
Right.
So why did you decide to getout right then?
AnthonyDyer (11:11):
Yeah, so what had happened was uh so there was uh
like I didn't fly always ongunships, but uh I flew about
five years on the uh the combatsearch and rescue, the pavilion
helicopter, and and then I cameback to gunships after five
years to do my what you call youknow sunset tour.
I knew I was getting towardsthe 20.
And so basically as on my lastdeployment, it was in Iraq, man,
and like it was just it's veryslow.
(11:32):
And I and I get it now, man.
It's like these are all jobslike you you often don't want to
have to do, you know.
And if it's uh you know, ifwe're working someone's worst
day or possibly last day, I'llsay that.
And you know, but at the sametime, you want to be the guy
that to do the job when thathappens, you know.
And um, you know, I realizedthe the writing was all writing
was on the wall, it was it wascoming to an end, you know.
So I hit the retirement button.
(11:53):
And then man, I just had thisloss of just identity and you
know, sense of purpose.
That's a real thing when you'regetting out, especially when
you're reflecting on what youknow 20 something years, you
know.
And I I realized, man, likewhen you do your final out
processing appointment, man,there's uh there's no door
handling on the other side ofthat door, meaning, you know,
you can you can leave this thismachine, this air force, right?
But you can never really getback in, you know.
(12:14):
And so I knew it was over, butat the same time, you know, like
I I struggled with that and itreally developed uh to be honest
with you, the drinking problem,man.
I was drinking like a a pint anight just to go to sleep.
And you know, my wife uh sheshe recognized that and you
know, it's just uh basically theultimatum of you know, me and
your daughter or the alcohol,right?
And you know, thank God, youknow, I chose my family, and I'm
(12:35):
I'm very glad I did.
And I ended up getting uhprolonged uh therapy with like a
USOCOM psychiatrist.
You know, this was all withinmy last year, and then you know,
once I retired, man, I was uh,you know, hit the ground running
to continue my mental healthand you know, get seen and stuff
like that with the V8.
LarryZilliox (12:52):
Are you uh still in touch with a lot of guys and
gals that you served with?
AnthonyDyer (12:57):
Yeah, I I really am, honestly.
And uh this this book, man, isis it's really eye-opening.
Like, you know, I tell peopleevery veteran has a story, you
know, and um and writing to mewas was very therapeutic, you
know.
There's different platforms toget these stories out, you know,
and um, you know, part of thatprolonged therapy thing I was
talking about was you write thestory out over and over and over
and until you're basicallycomfortable being uncomfortable
(13:20):
talking about it, right?
And you know, till you know itit doesn't affect you as as much
as it did, I guess you'd say.
And then so she's like, youshould tell your story over and
over, you know.
And I kept saying no, and thenyou know, once I got out and the
dust did settle, man, I waslike, you know what, like maybe
maybe someone could get helpfrom this story, you know, if
they read this, if one persongets help, then uh that that's a
victory.
LarryZilliox (13:40):
Yeah, do you find that a lot of your peers um also
experience the same sort ofproblems and self-medicated with
alcohol or drugs?
AnthonyDyer (13:50):
Oh, 100%.
The uh, you know, I've I'vereceived a lot of almost
overwhelming amount of just liketext and messages, like, you
know, from people saying, hey,but I fluid, right?
Like, like, man, like I'vedealt with the same thing, you
know.
Thank you for for putting thisout there.
And what you'll see, and what Ithink would happen would be
like a domino effect wherepeople will start venting these
stories out, you know, bleedingthem on the page and just uh try
(14:11):
to make sense of all this, youknow, two decades of war that
ended not too long ago and etcetera.
LarryZilliox (14:16):
If I remember correctly, you were still active
duty when you self-identifiedthat you had a drinking problem.
Is that right?
AnthonyDyer (14:25):
That's correct.
Yeah, it was a you know, it wasmy last year in there, and you
know, it started off as aweekend, like, you know, here
and there type of drink to liketo a pint every night, you know,
at least just to go to sleep.
Speaker 01 (14:35):
And yeah.
AnthonyDyer (14:36):
I was just in a very bad spot, man, like a very,
you know, this vicious cycleof, you know, drinking myself to
sleep, waking up, hungover,getting through the work day,
yeah, and then just starting itall over at 4 30 p.m.
when I got off, you know.
And that's anybody that's everstruggled with addiction or
alcohol, man.
I I feel you, and if you gotthat bug, but just just keep
digging, man, keep fighting, andyou'll get it.
LarryZilliox (14:56):
So, how did your command treat you when you went
to them and said, Hey, I have aproblem, I need help?
AnthonyDyer (15:04):
Yeah, that that's one thing I would say,
especially in recent, you know,years is ESOCOM and AFSOC, uh,
all these units, there's thisthing called the preservation of
the force of family.
And with that become, you know,you get a uh there's like a
physical therapist, usually atrainer, and then like a uh
psychiatrist, you know, and theywere really open about it, you
know, and they wanted me to getseen and get better, you know.
(15:25):
They there was never an issueof like, you know, being on a
flight schedule or anything likethat.
They just wanted me to get tomy appointments and you know,
get get better.
LarryZilliox (15:34):
And so you were on restricted duty, what did they
have you doing other thangetting better?
AnthonyDyer (15:40):
Yeah, so there was uh like plans and tactics, um,
different exercises coming up,sort of the planning part of
that, you know, more admin typepaperwork, I guess you would
call it.
Speaker 01 (15:49):
Right.
AnthonyDyer (15:50):
Um, you know, and still, you know, basically in a
way mentoring still the youngerguys, you know, like maybe
recognizing that, hey, you know,if this person gets help, the
next person may get help, youknow, and to see it in like the
domino effect.
LarryZilliox (16:02):
Yeah.
Did um did you see at the time,so you you were in you were in
the Air Force way later than Iwas, but when I was in um, you
know, I I've got pretty much thesame story, been there, done
that.
And uh there was no there wasno process or procedures to help
identify airmen who may behaving troubles or problems to
(16:26):
try and help them adjust or dealwith that before they started
to self-medicate.
It was always, well, you know,it's just what we do, you know.
It's uh when I was on Guam backin the late 70s, uh, you know,
a bottle of Ron Rico rum waslike a dollar thirty-five.
The coke costs more than thealcohol.
(16:47):
You know, the Air Force is sortof known for taking over and
building a base and building theNCO club first almost.
So there was never any any kindof focus on trying to help
airmen before they developedthese kind of problems.
Did you see that or was itstill the same when you
self-identified your problem?
AnthonyDyer (17:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So there was, I mean, you know,there's still the there was
always this sort of stigma, atleast at least when I first came
in and all that, you know, andbasically like no one wants to
be the guy to to get taken offthe flight schedule or or get a
do not arm thing from yourcommander, right?
Like it's no one wants to forthat to happen.
But now it's, you know, I thinkpeople are starting to realize,
you know, and the commands arestarting to realize that that
(17:30):
there will be a time, you know,after two decades of whatever
the case may be, the trauma andstuff that comes with that,
that, you know, you're gonnahave to take that tactical knee.
And you know, it's it's moreimportant to speak up, you know,
is what sort of the the mindsetis now than it is to just to
just let it fester, you know.
LarryZilliox (17:46):
Yeah, I I I think too, you were in uh an
organization that had a lot ofstress just because of your job
that was a little bit differentthan, you know, the air ground
ground age guys or MMS who'sjust wheeling bombs out, you
know, or the maintenance guys,or you know, that there are
(18:10):
certain professions.
Now, I see we always saw a lotof guys that had problems
because they were bored.
And it wasn't due to stress, itwasn't due to combat, it's just
that they didn't have anythingelse to do.
So they partied.
But yeah, I just I do hope thattoday um the service is taking
a more uh uh active role intrying to identify airmen that
(18:35):
are in high stress positions.
And we know that in specialoperations, we know with tier
one door kickers that theyrarely self-identify because it
takes them out of the game.
And that's their whole life.
And you know, you've gotpilots, you've got aviation crew
members that they live forthis.
(18:55):
I mean, they are they having anincredible job.
These pilots flying theseplanes are incredible pilots and
um they do it because they loveit.
And so, you know, I know howhard it is.
I know how hard it was for youto say, I've got to get help.
Now you were fortunate becauseyou had a family that pushed you
(19:18):
in the right direction.
A lot of young guys don't havethat, but um what what did you
find was the hardest thing whenyou transitioned to civilian
life?
AnthonyDyer (19:30):
Yeah, it was um the you know, I didn't there was a
lot of little things like Ididn't know what business casual
was, man, and you know, walkingout the the door of the
squadron and like you know,reaching for my hat, oh yeah, I
got civilian clothes on now, andthen you know, not being able
to actually like to fly anymore,man.
Like that, you know, I loved itso much, man.
And that whole why, that wholereason to make sure those guys
(19:53):
on the ground get home, youknow, and that was, you know,
from the that point of thespear, I it was gone, you know,
and just accepting that fact andyou know, and you know, to sort
of realizing the fact that, youknow what, my legacy now is
being the best dad I could be,the best, you know, husband I
could be, the best author Icould be, whatever the case may
be, the best friend I could be,you know, and just to be there
from someone else.
(20:13):
And to me, like I sort ofchanged at least to what I
thought was relevant to to this,you know.
LarryZilliox (20:19):
Yeah, and I see, you know, transition is hard.
You know, I still I I will Idon't go out without a hat on 40
plus years later.
It just it, you know, there arethings that were instilled in
you that you still uh, you know,you still carry today and
hopefully, you know, they'regood things.
(20:40):
What do you find in commentsand people who've read the book
and reach out to you?
What are the what are theygetting out of the book?
What what is what are theysaying about their service?
AnthonyDyer (20:51):
Yeah, so the the most common feedback I get is
like it is really a short read,you know, like a Sunday read,
but uh it's uh it's an emotionalread, you know, and most people
will tell me like even people Iflu are like like you know, one
thanks for doing it, you know,and number two is like that's
the only book that made themlaugh and cry within the same
two hours, you know.
Um, but yeah, as far as thelacing, man, everybody,
honestly, people that's not evenbeen flyers have have talked to
(21:14):
me, man and said, Man, wereally appreciate the story, and
like, you know, and andencouraging people to see that
it's okay not to be okay, youknow.
So they like that aspect of it.
Yeah, take the bill off, youknow.
LarryZilliox (21:24):
Yeah.
Uh I just want to go back toone thing that you talked about.
You were flying on thehelicopter in Iraq, is that
right?
AnthonyDyer (21:30):
It was in the East Africa for that's commission.
LarryZilliox (21:33):
Were you were you guys um shuttling out PJs or
what were you doing on that?
AnthonyDyer (21:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So we were um basically onCasovac like 24-7 uh alert,
right?
And um, it was um day seven ofa seven-day out, and you know,
all was going well, man.
And like, you know, next thingyou know, I hear attention on
that scramble, scramble,scramble.
And what it was was there was40 uh special operators and then
uh most of Green Berets andthen some partner nation guys,
(22:00):
and um, they got hit by mortarsand disco fire and stuff like
that.
And you know, basically we sawthe best side of combat search
and rescue that day, meaning wesaved five lives, and and the
worst side meaning that youknow, one American, one Eagle
didn't make it back.
And you know, that definitelystuck with me.
But you know, those people likeyou know, I love them so much
to this day.
LarryZilliox (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's um you you got both ofthose things going on at the
same time.
You're saving people and you'relosing people, and it um it
does it does mess with your headfor sure.
AnthonyDyer (22:31):
Um Yeah, you know, and it's it's I've I've always
had the thought of especially inflying and stuff and in that
world, right?
It's it's not what you do, thehaunch, it's what you don't do.
And you know, the mind's atricky thing.
Like if I'd have been therefive minutes earlier, ten
minutes earlier, you know,things like that.
And you know, but coming up,you know, find out later that no
matter if we what time we'dhave got there, he took a direct
with the mortar, and once hegot back on the operating table,
(22:53):
unfortunately he passed, youknow.
But you know, I didn't knowwhat sacrifice was to that day,
man.
And you know, to witness that,you know, it's forever as to my
heart, man.
LarryZilliox (23:01):
Yeah.
Well, when you start secondguessing and play that game of
five minutes, two minutes early,uh you could have been in a
place where you took around thatdowned your whole aircraft, you
know.
So um, you know, it could havegone, it could have go either
way.
Well, listen, listeners, go toAmazon and order the book.
It's Moon Child, The Roots andWings of a USAF Combat Special
(23:24):
Mission Aviator.
It's a great book.
And uh, Anthony, I can't thankyou enough for coming on with us
today and talking all about uhyour experience uh as an Air
Force aviator and uh the book.
So thank you very much.
Really appreciate it.
AnthonyDyer (23:42):
Thank you, Larry.
I really appreciate it, man.
And I appreciate uh you knoweverything you guys do.
We're up there in Virginia,man.
You guys are awesome, man.
And uh uh we we all love youguys, man.
LarryZilliox (23:50):
So, listeners, we'll have another episode next
Monday morning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and ReathsAcross America Radio.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
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