August 18, 2025 • 30 mins
Hidden in the rolling countryside of Northern Virginia lies a remarkable time capsule preserving one of America's most consequential—yet understudied—chapters of history. The Cold War Museum at Vint Hill stands as a guardian of memories that textbooks have largely forgotten.
Founded by Gary Powers Jr., whose father became an unwitting Cold War icon when his U-2 spy plane was shot down over the Soviet Union in 1960, this museum does far more than commemorate a single incident. It honors the hundreds of thousands of veterans who served during this pivotal 46-year conflict that shaped our modern world—many whose stories remain untold.
What makes the museum's location particularly fascinating is that Vint Hill itself was "Listening Post Number One" during both World War II and the Cold War. With unique topographical features and granite soil composition that naturally amplified radio signals, this former Army base intercepted communications from around the globe, from Japanese taxi dispatchers to Soviet embassy transmissions. Walking through the museum feels like stepping into an intelligence operation frozen in time.
The collection astonishes with its breadth and significance. Where else can you find an authentic Stasi headquarters sign from Berlin, examine pieces of a U-2 spy plane shot down during the Cuban Missile Crisis, or explore Washington DC's Civil Defense Headquarters preserved exactly as it was left—books open, cigarettes still in ashtrays? From the technology that kept America vigilant to the cultural artifacts that defined an era of nuclear anxiety, each item tells a crucial story.
Beyond historical curiosity, the museum offers vital context for understanding today's global conflicts. As Powers explains, current tensions with Russia and China, as well as conflicts in regions like Ukraine, follow patterns established during the Cold War. "It's Cold War 2.0," he notes, emphasizing how China's long-term strategic thinking represents a fundamentally different challenge than the Soviet Union posed.
Visit coldwar.org to plan your trip to this remarkable institution. Open weekends and by appointment for private tours, the museum offers an immersive experience that will transform your understanding of history, which continues to shape our world. Consider supporting their preservation efforts—because when we forget the lessons of the Cold War, we risk repeating its most dangerous chapters.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm Larry Zilliox, Director ofCulinary Services here at the
Warrior Retreat at Bull Run, andthis week we're continuing our
series on military-themedmuseums here in the Northern
Virginia area.
We've previously done theMarine Corps Museum and the Army
Museum and I'm really excitedto have our guest, gary Powers
(00:22):
Jr, who's the chairman of theCold War Museum, and probably
most of our listeners have notheard of the Cold War Museum and
that may be in part because wehave listeners all over the
world.
The most surprising thing to methe other day that I saw in our
statistics was that 5% of ourlisteners are in Germany, and I
(00:44):
don't know why.
I'm thinking maybe servicemembers that are stationed there
, but the Cold War Museum islocated at Vint Hill in
Warrington, virginia, which isFauquier County.
It's right close to us here.
It's been there for a goodwhile and I have been out there
at least four times.
Our warriors will go and taketours, but I love to go.
(01:08):
It's fascinating.
This Vent Hill, which is an oldArmy base, is fascinating in
and of itself.
Gary, welcome to the podcast.
Gary Powers (01:17):
Well, Larry, thank you very much for having me on.
It's a pleasure to be here.
You have a wonderful facilityand I'm looking forward to
talking shop with you about ColdWar history and why we did the
Cold War Museum Well, that wasreally kind of.
Larry Zilliox (01:29):
My very first question was how did the idea
for the Cold War Museum come up?
Gary Powers (01:36):
Back in 1992, I moved to Virginia from
California.
Larry Zilliox (01:40):
Okay.
Gary Powers (01:41):
I'm doing my graduate degree at George Mason
University in publicadministration, nonprofit
management, I start to givelectures in the Northern
Virginia area on the U-2incident.
My dad, gary Powers, u-2 pilot,shot down May 1st of 1960 over
the Soviet Union.
I'm going into classrooms, I'mgiving a talk on the U-2
incident.
(02:01):
I get blank stares from thekids.
They think I'm there to talkabout the U-2 rock band.
And so I'm realizing hey,something has to be done to
preserve Cold War history.
Then, through the research I'vedone over the last 40 plus
years to find out the truth ofwhat my father went through, I
realized that he's famous, he'sin the history books, he's
gotten accolades posthumouslyfor his participation in the
(02:25):
Cold War U2 program, but thatthere were hundreds of thousands
of other men and women, ourveterans, who fought, sacrificed
, some of who died during theCold War time period the Cold
War was not always cold thatthey were not getting the
recognition that I thought theydeserved for helping to win the
Cold War between 45 and 91.
So you combine those twoaspects of educating the kids,
(02:48):
honoring the veterans, and wefounded the Cold War Museum in
1996 to honor veterans, preservehistory, educate future
generations.
Larry Zilliox (02:56):
Wow.
Well, I can say it's located atVent Hill and I think what's
fascinating about Vent Hill it'snot just any old military base.
So tell our listeners a littlebit about the background of Vent
Hill and how it came to be soimportant in World War II.
Gary Powers (03:18):
Oh sure.
Well, Vent V-I-N-T Hill H-I-L-L, v-i-n-t Hill H-I-L-L.
Vent.
Hill Farms was the originalfarm location owned by a farmer
and his family back in the WorldWar II era.
He was a ham radio operator andhe would be able to pick up
signals from Japan, from Germany, from Italy, from other
(03:38):
countries around the world.
So he invites one of hisfriends over one night for a
cigar and a bourbon and he sayshey, general, so-and-so, guess
what I can pick up on myshortwave radio.
So the general, his eyes getreally wide because he's hearing
German and or Italian taxi cabstands and Japanese signals and
he's thinking what is going onhere?
(04:00):
We need to have this locationas a listening post to pick up
international signals to monitorour enemies during World War II
.
So they reach a deal.
I think they sell it to thefarmer, sells it to the
government for about $120,000 in1942.
So that was a chunk of change.
Yeah, and Vent Hill FarmStation was birthed.
(04:23):
So Vint Hill Farm Station wasactive from World War II up
through about 1997.
In World War II it wasmonitoring the Japanese, the
German, the Italians.
In the Cold War it wasmonitoring Russia, china and
everybody else.
They had lots of antennas onthe property.
Many pointed at Washington DCto pick up the embassy
(04:46):
communications.
In addition, for whateverreason the topography, the
granite soil composition it's anatural receiver.
So it would pick upinternational signals from
around the world and during theCold War that was very important
to find out what our enemieswere doing.
So it was functional between1942-43 to 1997.
(05:09):
It was housed and staffed bymembers of NSA, cia and Army
Security Agency, asa.
It was known as the listeningpost number one and so that's
what it did.
It listened to things aroundthe world.
It was closed in 97, a BRAC BaseRealignment and Closure Act.
It sat vacant for a few years.
(05:30):
Then the governor of Virginiain the early 2000s basically
said we have to do somethingwith this property.
They created the Vent HillEconomic Development Authority.
It was chaired by Ike Broaduswho is one of the owners of the
brewery on site, the oldBusthead Brewery.
He came from a real estatebackground in Northern Virginia.
(05:51):
I happen to have known Ikebecause my mother-in-law worked
for him back in the 2000 erasmall world syndrome and he was
able to put this board andcommission together.
They redeveloped the properties.
They sold off some sections.
Now there's homes, there'svacant land for real estate
investors.
There's winery, a brewery, theCold War Museum, there's a pizza
(06:16):
place and some other smallshops.
There's a covert cafe andthere's a fine dining restaurant
that's just come online thelast few months, so it's really
grown over the last 12, 15 years.
It's a great place.
It's actually a Warringtonaddress, but it's right next to
Gainesville.
Larry Zilliox (06:32):
Yeah.
Gary Powers (06:33):
So Warrington's still another 20 minutes away
from where we're located.
Larry Zilliox (06:36):
Yeah, that's the postal designation, correct,
warrington.
Yeah, you get the idea and youstart the museum and you say
we've got to educate the,because it's sort of there's
just a time gap there Intextbooks it's barely mentioned.
It's kind of in between WorldWar II and Korea and then
(06:59):
Vietnam, and really not muchabout the Cold War is taught or
understood.
So you now have to go aboutgathering artifacts.
And how did that work?
Where did you get your?
Because I've seen thecollection and it is amazing.
There's not, it's a small space, but it's jam-packed with
(07:21):
really cool stuff and a lot ofvery fascinating stuff about vin
hill, the listening station too.
But how did you acquire all the?
Gary Powers (07:30):
artifacts.
Well, back in 96, when Ifounded the museum, I started
reaching out to friends,associates.
I'm in the DC area, living inFairfax City, I'm able to talk
to retired military veterans andI'm able to meet some very
interesting people.
So I start getting the word outand at first, back in 96, I'm
(07:52):
thinking it's going to takethree years to build fundraise 3
million bucks shouldn't be toohard to do.
It took 15 years to get brickand mortar when we located at
Vent Hill, virginia.
But during that 15-year timeperiod we started to collect and
gather as many Cold Warartifacts as we could find, some
off eBay, some off donationsfrom veterans, some off people
(08:15):
who worked or lived in Europeduring the Cold War time period
that had amassed collections andwe just got the word out.
So, as a result of getting theword out and through the help of
our board of directors andfriends and associates, we have
acquired items from members,crew members of the USS Liberty
incident, the USS Puebloincident, overhead
(08:53):
reconnaissance platforms such asthe U of flags, banners,
regalia, uniforms, uniforms EastGerman, west German, american,
russian, you name it From theCold War time period.
We have uniforms of that periodfor various countries around
the world, so we've amassed thiscollection.
It is in a 2,000-square-footmuseum space currently and we
(09:17):
have two storage facility unitsdown the street, so we've been
growing on site.
We are looking for people tohelp with our efforts.
If any of your listeners havean interest in supporting our
efforts helping our efforts,volunteering you can go to
coldwarorg to find out moreabout our efforts and to contact
me through that platform.
Larry Zilliox (09:38):
Well, listeners, that's the webpage.
It's coldwarorg.
I want everybody to go there,check it out.
Look at the times when themuseum is open.
It's not open every day, somake sure you just don't show up
.
But see the times and you'regoing to see a button on there
that says donate.
My regular listeners know thatevery time I talk about a
(10:00):
nonprofit, I'm telling you todonate, and I'm sure you're out
there going, hey, I.
You know we can't donate toeverybody, I understand that,
but this is important becausethey're the only ones that are
doing it.
Okay, so if this goes away,there's going to be this void in
(10:21):
history that will just sort ofevaporate and I'm sure the
collection will just go back to.
You know people who've loanedthings or be sold off or God
forbid in bankruptcy or justnightmarish things about some
incredible artifacts that are ondisplay, and so please consider
(10:42):
, give you know five bucks, 10bucks, 100 bucks, $1,000,
$10,000, build a new buildingfor them.
Whatever you can do, hit thatdonate button and give your
support and find a way to getover there and see it, and I
guarantee you, if you get overthere and see it, you'll even
(11:03):
donate more, because it'ssurprising that you walk in and
it's small and then there's theupstairs area.
But when you're done and youleave you can't believe how much
time you spent there, becauseit's just one cool thing after
another and some are big, biguniforms, big equipment, and
(11:27):
some things are really small andevery artifact has an amazing
story and the calm docents thatare there volunteering.
You kind of walk away gettingthe feeling that some of these
guys probably old CIA hands.
They've been in the ICcommunity for a while and they
(11:52):
know what they're talking aboutand they know their history and
they lived it.
You know they were there on theground.
They were in East Germany andWest Germany and all over, and
for sure you definitely don'twant to miss it.
Gary Powers (12:09):
Yeah, some of our docents actually worked at Vent
Hill.
Oh, so they have thatinstitutional knowledge of
working on base during the ColdWar time period.
Another docent is currently inthe IC community and will be
retiring shortly so he can putmore time into the museum Nice A
couple of the other items thatwe have that are very unique in
(12:30):
displays.
We have a room dedicated toVent Hill and the history from
World War II until it closed.
Beetle Bailey, the comic strip,was created at Vent Hill.
Wow, because the soldier whowas stationed there ended up
being the artist of BeetleBailey.
One of those little triviaknowledge things.
Larry Zilliox (12:46):
Wow.
Gary Powers (12:48):
We have some items from Civil Defense.
We were able to save andsalvage the civil defense
headquarters for Washington DCback about 20 years ago before
people went in and just tookeverything.
We were able to get permissionfrom Fairfax County.
The headquarters was located inLorton, virginia, on the site
of the old jail facility.
(13:09):
It was the civil defenseheadquarters for DC.
So we walk in and it's as ifthey turned off the lights and
walked away.
Books were open to certainpages, coffee cups and
cigarettes were still in theashtrays.
There was no more coffee, itevaporated.
But it was just as if theylocked the door and walked away.
So we were able to collect andsave and salvage the entire
(13:32):
entity of the Civil DefenseHeadquarters for DC.
So we have the Bert the Turtleduck and cover, original audio
tapes and video tapes Not evenvideo reel-to-reel tapes at the
time.
We have the nuclear falloutshelter plans.
We have all of the things fromPEPCO and Washington Gas, fbi,
cia, the things that were intheir individual booths.
(13:55):
In case of a natural disasteror heaven forbid, a nuclear war,
that would have been theprimary communication center for
Washington DC to coordinate theaftermath.
So that's one of the exhibits.
We have An exhibit on the U-2incident.
You know, dad was a U-2 pilotshot down.
Of course wanted to keep hismemory alive, but it's not the
Gary Powers Museum.
(14:15):
Back 25 years ago or so, when Ifounded it, some people thought
, oh, you're doing this for yourdad.
Well, yes, I did it for my dad,but I did it for the hundreds
of thousands of other men andwomen who fought, sacrificed,
some of which who died duringthis time period, that were not
being recognized for theirservice to our country.
So there is a small section onDAD, but there's also sections
(14:35):
on overhead reconnaissance, u-2program, sr-71 program.
As we go upstairs we have anarea on Area 51 because that was
the test site for the U-2, theSR-71, the F-117 stealth and
whatever they're flying outthere today the SR-71, the F-117
stealth and whatever they'reflying out there today.
We have a section on Soviet andAmerican subs, a section on
(14:57):
American and Soviet missiles andthen, of course, the flags, the
banners, the regalia, theuniforms.
One of the unique items we haveis a Stasi headquarters sign
from the Stasi headquarters inBerlin that someone acquired
when the wall fell, yeah, and itended up in our collection.
We have a piece of the U-2 shotdown over Cuba during the Cuban
(15:21):
Missile Crisis, piloted byMajor Rudolph Anderson.
He died in that shoot down.
That was the second shoot downto happen.
Dad was the first U-2 to beshot down over the Soviet Union.
Major Anderson's U-2 over Cubaduring the Cuban Missile Crisis
was the second.
Then there were five more shotdown over mainland China during
the 60s.
(15:41):
They were flown by some unitcalled the Black Cat Program,
taiwanese pilots that weretrained by the CIA to overfly
China, and so we have some oftheir items and artifacts and
desk plaques and awards.
That tells that story.
So we have a very eclecticcollection of Cold War military
intelligence, social aspects ofthe Cold War.
Larry Zilliox (16:05):
I do want to talk a little bit about your dad.
Listeners would probablyrecognize his name from the
Spielberg Tom Hanks movie Bridgeof Spies, which was not so much
a movie about your dad butabout the lawyer who the
government asked to help freeyour dad, which was it was a
(16:29):
great movie.
And I got to say I got to tellyou this story Pre-release of
the movie, my wife and I wereinvited over there to Fairfax
for the screening that themuseum did and it's in this
really nice theater where youcan you can get your meal there
and take it into the theater andeverything.
(16:50):
And we were really excited togo because one after the movie,
you and the granddaughter of theattorney featured the Tom Hanks
character were going to do aQ&A and I knew it was going to
be good.
So we got some food and we weresitting up kind of high and then
all of a sudden this group ofguys come in with wives and the
(17:14):
wives like sit, like over hereand they've got buckets of beer
and they're sitting next to usand just having a grand old time
and I'm like, oh man, who arethese guys, you know?
And then, before the moviestarted, the head of the YouTube
pilots Association gets up and,as talk, talks about the movie
(17:38):
and YouTube pilots, and he says,oh, and we're very excited to
have some YouTube pilots in theaudience today, and it's these
guys that stand up next to us.
I had no idea.
It was really something.
It was a fantastic movie.
And so what was it likeconsulting on the movie about
your dad?
Gary Powers (17:58):
Well, let me give a little background and then I'll
go into the movie aspect of it.
Growing up in SouthernCalifornia, I was aware that my
father was shot down, imprisonedand eventually exchanged for a
Soviet spy.
This happened a few yearsbefore I was born.
I was born when he came home.
My father dies in a helicoptercrash in 1977.
I'm 12 years old at the time.
(18:20):
Now he was flying for a traffichelicopter in Los Angeles right
Correct KNBC News Station,channel 4, or News Channel 4 at
the time.
And I remember flying with himand hiking and biking and
fishing, all the normalfather-son things.
But people would ask for hisautograph.
He'd go to air shows.
I'd fly with him to the Renoair races and so I was aware
(18:42):
that he was a pilot and thatpeople wanted his autograph and
that he was in a history book.
But I just thought that wasnormal.
I thought everybody's dad wentthrough this.
I just didn't understand thesignificance of what he went
through until he died.
So he dies in 77, veryintroverted throughout high
school because I don't want totalk about it.
People ask me questions I don'tknow the answers to.
So in college I'm curious.
(19:04):
I want to find out the truth ofwhat my father went through.
He's controversial.
There are conspiracy theoriesabout him and the U2 incident.
So I want to find out the truthof what he went through.
So I know how to answerquestions.
Well, that led to the creationof the Cold War Museum.
Then that led to the things I'mdoing now lecturing, writing
and teaching Cold War history.
I have six or seven bookspublished.
(19:30):
I have one on Cold War Virginia.
I've got three on my father,one of which is a graphic novel.
I have a graphic novel out onthe Berlin Airlift and I'm
currently working on Cold WarCalifornia.
So that's what keeps me busycurrently.
In addition, I lecture everychance I get.
So if one of your listeners hasa venue, either nationally or
internationally, where I cancome out and give a talk on Cold
War history and or the U2incident, please send me an
(19:52):
email through my contact page atgarypowerscom or through
coldwarorg.
So that leads up to 2014.
I get rumors, start to hearrumors that Spielberg and Hanks
are going to do a movie thatwill portray my father.
I'm thinking at the time that'snot going to happen.
Then I get confirmation it'sgoing to happen.
(20:13):
I'm able to get in touch withtheir producer, mark Platt.
Mark Platt and I talked for anhour in July of 2014.
At the end of the conversation,mark basically says to me Mr
Powers, you're veryknowledgeable on the Cold War,
the U2 incident, what yourfather went through.
How would you like to consultfor the film?
Well, yes, that would be reallynice.
(20:35):
Sure, thank you.
So I get the contract.
I'm reading through it.
I'm to answer questions, be onset as invited, provide
photographs from my family inthe 50s that they can Photoshop,
provide audio tapes of myfather that he recorded in the
60s.
That way they can listen to himin his own words as to what he
(20:55):
went through.
And at the very end of thecontract, the last paragraph
basically says they don't haveto listen to me.
Okay, so I talked to somefriends, I talked to my sister,
and I figure it's more importantto be a part of the production,
try to steer them in the rightdirection.
Had I walked away, I'd have hadno say whatsoever.
(21:15):
So I am very glad that I didsign the contract.
It was an honor and a privilegeto work with Spielberg and Hanks
, the lighting crews, the makeup, the hairstylist, the props,
the wardrobe Just see how aHollywood movie is made from
behind the scenes.
Awesome experience.
It's quite a bit, isn't it?
Oh yeah, so much goes into it.
You just don't understand.
Yeah, meeting Austin Stoll, theyoung man who portrayed my
(21:38):
father Meeting.
Larry Zilliox (21:43):
Mark.
Gary Powers (21:43):
Reliance who portrayed Rudolph Abel meeting
the other cast and characters inthe film.
It was just a wonderfulexperience.
The overall movie we definitelylike.
The big picture is historicallyaccurate, but it's Hollywood so
you have to remember thedetails are not 100% correct.
The big picture is accurate U2incident, cold War time period,
(22:04):
soviet Union, capture of RudolphAb Ebel, shoot down of dad, the
exchange of the Gliniker Bridgeall very accurately portrayed.
But only the people on thebridge know what happened, know
where they were standing, knowwhat was said.
So Spielberg and his team haveto recreate this using their
genius to bring this scene tolife, create this using their
genius to bring this scene tolife.
The Gliniker Bridge in Potsdam,germany, is where the exchange
(22:27):
took place and it's also wherethey filmed the exchange scene.
So that is historicallyaccurate.
Other places they used a placein Poland for the Berlin Wall
scene, so again, nothistorically accurate for the
locations but on the big screenyou don't know the difference
and it's a wonderful movie.
Larry Zilliox (22:46):
Yeah, I encourage everybody to watch the movie.
It's very entertaining.
Of course, anything thatSpielberg and Tom Hanks do is
going to be first class, forsure.
Gary Powers (22:55):
And you can get copies of it DVDs and Blu-ray
off of eBay, sometimes on thestreaming services, as well as
Netflix and Showtime will alsoshow it on occasion.
Larry Zilliox (23:08):
What are the future plans for the museum?
Gary Powers (23:11):
Future plans for the Cold War Museum.
We are looking to grow on site.
My board of directors recently,in the last year, has how do I
want to say this authorized meto look for a like-minded
institution to merge with orpartner with.
We would like to stay inVirginia because, this is where
you know, it's just very closeto Washington DC and all the
(23:35):
Cold War history.
But there are several othermuseums around the country that
have a Cold War focus and we'retrying to see if we are able to
merge partner war focus andwe're trying to see if we are
able to merge partner worktogether to keep this history
alive.
I do not have a money board.
I have a functional board thatvolunteers and helps out a
retired U-2 pilot, a retiredSR-71 pilot, a retired brigadier
(23:58):
general, a leading real estatecompany owner out of the Tyson's
Corner area, a nonprofitmanagement expert, myself, a
retired CIA person and a retiredambassador that used to serve
or be stationed in Vietnam thefirst US ambassador to open that
up.
So we have eight people on ourboard.
(24:20):
But we are hand-to-mouth.
We function on donations.
We do a monthly lecture seriesvia Zoom that you will pay for a
ticket and then listen to theseCold War experts or historians
or participants talk about theirhistory.
We do two major fundraisingevents throughout the year, one
in December, one in May GiveLocal Piedmont, which is for the
(24:43):
Piedmont area.
One in May Give Local Piedmont,which is for the Piedmont area,
warrington, virginia, and thenGiving Tuesday.
Giving Tuesday is in Decemberand Give Local Piedmont is in
May.
So those are the two majorfundraisers.
Between the fundraising betweenthe donations, between the
private tours that we offer fora small fee, that's what keeps
the doors open.
We're open on the weekends,staffed by volunteers.
(25:06):
We would love to find an angelto help move our efforts forward
more quickly.
Sure, but it's just a matter ofthe outreach, getting people
interested and promoting ourefforts as where we can, just
like this program today.
Larry Zilliox (25:22):
Yeah, well, listeners, there it is, it's
coldwarorg and desperately needdonations.
So visit that webpage, givewhat you can.
It's really important and wewant to keep the museum open for
forever.
Really, there's not going to bea time when people don't need
(25:44):
to know about this.
It's an important time inhistory and it's gone unnoticed
for too long.
And if you're in the NorthernVirginia area, please think
about a weekend Saturday tripout to the Cold War Museum in
Vint Hill.
(26:04):
If you're in DC, it's a niceride right out 66.
You can see all the beautifuldata centers they're building
and then you'll get out into thecountry a little bit, and
there's plenty to do out here,but you can easily spend three
or four hours in there, yeah, orlonger, really.
Gary Powers (26:26):
And so, if you do make it out, I'm there on
occasion.
But if you want to do a grouptour midweek, just send us an
email through our website andeither I or one of the docents
will respond and select a datethat you can come in midweek to
visit.
The date that you can come inmidweek to visit.
(26:46):
We are opened on the weekendsto the public, from 11 am to 4
pm on Saturdays, 1 pm to 4 pm onSundays and then by appointment
for private groups and peoplewho can't make it on a weekend.
Some of the recent groups we'vehad include the Benjamin School
out of West Palm Beach, florida.
That's where some verywell-known celebrities' children
go.
(27:06):
We've had a group from the CIAAlumni Association came out and
visited, along with GeneralClapper who was head of what's
called National Defense,national Intelligence.
We've had some groups from theState Department Mm-hmm.
(27:45):
You said, larry, that's veryimportant is that we have to
understand Cold War history Inorder to understand what we're
happening today right in ourworld, with Ukraine and even in
Gaza.
Those have Cold War connectionsWith the Ukraine, war, putin,
the East, america and everybodyelse, the West and the surrogate
country where it's taking place, ukraine, just like Vietnam,
just like Korea, just likeAfghanistan.
(28:06):
So that's a playbook out of theCold War that's repeating
itself right now.
As far as Gaza goes, we knowthat's biblical times.
There have been a conflictthere for thousands of years,
but in 1947, israel became astate.
That is a Cold War event andfrom that moment on, palestine
did not get statehood, and therehave been confrontations ever
(28:27):
since.
That has now resulted in whatwe have in Gaza.
Yeah, so there's always aconnection to the Cold War in
current history.
Larry Zilliox (28:33):
Yeah, and I think there's some very strong
parallels to China as well.
Oh yes, Cold War now is China.
Yeah for sure.
Gary Powers (28:41):
I like to say it's Cold War 2.0.
Yep, russia, yes, they're athreat because they have nuclear
weapons, but China is thelong-term adversary.
They are looking at the moon,they are looking at South China
Sea, they have the largestmilitary in the world and they
are thinking in terms ofhundreds and thousands of years
(29:01):
in the future, and not justyears or decades.
Larry Zilliox (29:04):
Yeah, so that makes the museum important.
So everybody, get out there asquickly as you can and see it
and enjoy it.
I guarantee you you will, Untilthen, go to coldwarorg and
donate.
And you know, Gary, I can'tthank you enough for coming out.
I know you're en routesomewhere and you made a point
(29:28):
to stop off and record this withus, and we really, really
appreciate it.
Gary Powers (29:32):
Well.
Thank you, larry.
It's an honor and a privilegeto be here, and I would highly
recommend that your listenersalso date to your cause.
This facility is awesome and itreally helps the wounded
warriors coming back from battle.
Larry Zilliox (29:44):
Yeah, thank you.
So, listeners, we'll haveanother episode next Monday
morning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
Good morning.
I'm Larry Zilliox, Director ofCulinary Services here at the
Warrior Retreat at Bull Run, andthis week we're continuing our
series on military-themedmuseums here in the Northern
Virginia area.
We've previously done theMarine Corps Museum and the Army
Museum and I'm really excitedto have our guest, gary Powers
(00:22):
Jr, who's the chairman of theCold War Museum, and probably
most of our listeners have notheard of the Cold War Museum and
that may be in part because wehave listeners all over the
world.
The most surprising thing to methe other day that I saw in our
statistics was that 5% of ourlisteners are in Germany, and I
(00:44):
don't know why.
I'm thinking maybe servicemembers that are stationed there
, but the Cold War Museum islocated at Vint Hill in
Warrington, virginia, which isFauquier County.
It's right close to us here.
It's been there for a goodwhile and I have been out there
at least four times.
Our warriors will go and taketours, but I love to go.
(01:08):
It's fascinating.
This Vent Hill, which is an oldArmy base, is fascinating in
and of itself.
Gary, welcome to the podcast.
Gary Powers (01:17):
Well, Larry, thank you very much for having me on.
It's a pleasure to be here.
You have a wonderful facilityand I'm looking forward to
talking shop with you about ColdWar history and why we did the
Cold War Museum Well, that wasreally kind of.
Larry Zilliox (01:29):
My very first question was how did the idea
for the Cold War Museum come up?
Gary Powers (01:36):
Back in 1992, I moved to Virginia from
California.
Larry Zilliox (01:40):
Okay.
Gary Powers (01:41):
I'm doing my graduate degree at George Mason
University in publicadministration, nonprofit
management, I start to givelectures in the Northern
Virginia area on the U-2incident.
My dad, gary Powers, u-2 pilot,shot down May 1st of 1960 over
the Soviet Union.
I'm going into classrooms, I'mgiving a talk on the U-2
incident.
(02:01):
I get blank stares from thekids.
They think I'm there to talkabout the U-2 rock band.
And so I'm realizing hey,something has to be done to
preserve Cold War history.
Then, through the research I'vedone over the last 40 plus
years to find out the truth ofwhat my father went through, I
realized that he's famous, he'sin the history books, he's
gotten accolades posthumouslyfor his participation in the
(02:25):
Cold War U2 program, but thatthere were hundreds of thousands
of other men and women, ourveterans, who fought, sacrificed
, some of who died during theCold War time period the Cold
War was not always cold thatthey were not getting the
recognition that I thought theydeserved for helping to win the
Cold War between 45 and 91.
So you combine those twoaspects of educating the kids,
(02:48):
honoring the veterans, and wefounded the Cold War Museum in
1996 to honor veterans, preservehistory, educate future
generations.
Larry Zilliox (02:56):
Wow.
Well, I can say it's located atVent Hill and I think what's
fascinating about Vent Hill it'snot just any old military base.
So tell our listeners a littlebit about the background of Vent
Hill and how it came to be soimportant in World War II.
Gary Powers (03:18):
Oh sure.
Well, Vent V-I-N-T Hill H-I-L-L, v-i-n-t Hill H-I-L-L.
Vent.
Hill Farms was the originalfarm location owned by a farmer
and his family back in the WorldWar II era.
He was a ham radio operator andhe would be able to pick up
signals from Japan, from Germany, from Italy, from other
(03:38):
countries around the world.
So he invites one of hisfriends over one night for a
cigar and a bourbon and he sayshey, general, so-and-so, guess
what I can pick up on myshortwave radio.
So the general, his eyes getreally wide because he's hearing
German and or Italian taxi cabstands and Japanese signals and
he's thinking what is going onhere?
(04:00):
We need to have this locationas a listening post to pick up
international signals to monitorour enemies during World War II
.
So they reach a deal.
I think they sell it to thefarmer, sells it to the
government for about $120,000 in1942.
So that was a chunk of change.
Yeah, and Vent Hill FarmStation was birthed.
(04:23):
So Vint Hill Farm Station wasactive from World War II up
through about 1997.
In World War II it wasmonitoring the Japanese, the
German, the Italians.
In the Cold War it wasmonitoring Russia, china and
everybody else.
They had lots of antennas onthe property.
Many pointed at Washington DCto pick up the embassy
(04:46):
communications.
In addition, for whateverreason the topography, the
granite soil composition it's anatural receiver.
So it would pick upinternational signals from
around the world and during theCold War that was very important
to find out what our enemieswere doing.
So it was functional between1942-43 to 1997.
(05:09):
It was housed and staffed bymembers of NSA, cia and Army
Security Agency, asa.
It was known as the listeningpost number one and so that's
what it did.
It listened to things aroundthe world.
It was closed in 97, a BRAC BaseRealignment and Closure Act.
It sat vacant for a few years.
(05:30):
Then the governor of Virginiain the early 2000s basically
said we have to do somethingwith this property.
They created the Vent HillEconomic Development Authority.
It was chaired by Ike Broaduswho is one of the owners of the
brewery on site, the oldBusthead Brewery.
He came from a real estatebackground in Northern Virginia.
(05:51):
I happen to have known Ikebecause my mother-in-law worked
for him back in the 2000 erasmall world syndrome and he was
able to put this board andcommission together.
They redeveloped the properties.
They sold off some sections.
Now there's homes, there'svacant land for real estate
investors.
There's winery, a brewery, theCold War Museum, there's a pizza
(06:16):
place and some other smallshops.
There's a covert cafe andthere's a fine dining restaurant
that's just come online thelast few months, so it's really
grown over the last 12, 15 years.
It's a great place.
It's actually a Warringtonaddress, but it's right next to
Gainesville.
Larry Zilliox (06:32):
Yeah.
Gary Powers (06:33):
So Warrington's still another 20 minutes away
from where we're located.
Larry Zilliox (06:36):
Yeah, that's the postal designation, correct,
warrington.
Yeah, you get the idea and youstart the museum and you say
we've got to educate the,because it's sort of there's
just a time gap there Intextbooks it's barely mentioned.
It's kind of in between WorldWar II and Korea and then
(06:59):
Vietnam, and really not muchabout the Cold War is taught or
understood.
So you now have to go aboutgathering artifacts.
And how did that work?
Where did you get your?
Because I've seen thecollection and it is amazing.
There's not, it's a small space, but it's jam-packed with
(07:21):
really cool stuff and a lot ofvery fascinating stuff about vin
hill, the listening station too.
But how did you acquire all the?
Gary Powers (07:30):
artifacts.
Well, back in 96, when Ifounded the museum, I started
reaching out to friends,associates.
I'm in the DC area, living inFairfax City, I'm able to talk
to retired military veterans andI'm able to meet some very
interesting people.
So I start getting the word outand at first, back in 96, I'm
(07:52):
thinking it's going to takethree years to build fundraise 3
million bucks shouldn't be toohard to do.
It took 15 years to get brickand mortar when we located at
Vent Hill, virginia.
But during that 15-year timeperiod we started to collect and
gather as many Cold Warartifacts as we could find, some
off eBay, some off donationsfrom veterans, some off people
(08:15):
who worked or lived in Europeduring the Cold War time period
that had amassed collections andwe just got the word out.
So, as a result of getting theword out and through the help of
our board of directors andfriends and associates, we have
acquired items from members,crew members of the USS Liberty
incident, the USS Puebloincident, overhead
(08:53):
reconnaissance platforms such asthe U of flags, banners,
regalia, uniforms, uniforms EastGerman, west German, american,
russian, you name it From theCold War time period.
We have uniforms of that periodfor various countries around
the world, so we've amassed thiscollection.
It is in a 2,000-square-footmuseum space currently and we
(09:17):
have two storage facility unitsdown the street, so we've been
growing on site.
We are looking for people tohelp with our efforts.
If any of your listeners havean interest in supporting our
efforts helping our efforts,volunteering you can go to
coldwarorg to find out moreabout our efforts and to contact
me through that platform.
Larry Zilliox (09:38):
Well, listeners, that's the webpage.
It's coldwarorg.
I want everybody to go there,check it out.
Look at the times when themuseum is open.
It's not open every day, somake sure you just don't show up
.
But see the times and you'regoing to see a button on there
that says donate.
My regular listeners know thatevery time I talk about a
(10:00):
nonprofit, I'm telling you todonate, and I'm sure you're out
there going, hey, I.
You know we can't donate toeverybody, I understand that,
but this is important becausethey're the only ones that are
doing it.
Okay, so if this goes away,there's going to be this void in
(10:21):
history that will just sort ofevaporate and I'm sure the
collection will just go back to.
You know people who've loanedthings or be sold off or God
forbid in bankruptcy or justnightmarish things about some
incredible artifacts that are ondisplay, and so please consider
(10:42):
, give you know five bucks, 10bucks, 100 bucks, $1,000,
$10,000, build a new buildingfor them.
Whatever you can do, hit thatdonate button and give your
support and find a way to getover there and see it, and I
guarantee you, if you get overthere and see it, you'll even
(11:03):
donate more, because it'ssurprising that you walk in and
it's small and then there's theupstairs area.
But when you're done and youleave you can't believe how much
time you spent there, becauseit's just one cool thing after
another and some are big, biguniforms, big equipment, and
(11:27):
some things are really small andevery artifact has an amazing
story and the calm docents thatare there volunteering.
You kind of walk away gettingthe feeling that some of these
guys probably old CIA hands.
They've been in the ICcommunity for a while and they
(11:52):
know what they're talking aboutand they know their history and
they lived it.
You know they were there on theground.
They were in East Germany andWest Germany and all over, and
for sure you definitely don'twant to miss it.
Gary Powers (12:09):
Yeah, some of our docents actually worked at Vent
Hill.
Oh, so they have thatinstitutional knowledge of
working on base during the ColdWar time period.
Another docent is currently inthe IC community and will be
retiring shortly so he can putmore time into the museum Nice A
couple of the other items thatwe have that are very unique in
(12:30):
displays.
We have a room dedicated toVent Hill and the history from
World War II until it closed.
Beetle Bailey, the comic strip,was created at Vent Hill.
Wow, because the soldier whowas stationed there ended up
being the artist of BeetleBailey.
One of those little triviaknowledge things.
Larry Zilliox (12:46):
Wow.
Gary Powers (12:48):
We have some items from Civil Defense.
We were able to save andsalvage the civil defense
headquarters for Washington DCback about 20 years ago before
people went in and just tookeverything.
We were able to get permissionfrom Fairfax County.
The headquarters was located inLorton, virginia, on the site
of the old jail facility.
(13:09):
It was the civil defenseheadquarters for DC.
So we walk in and it's as ifthey turned off the lights and
walked away.
Books were open to certainpages, coffee cups and
cigarettes were still in theashtrays.
There was no more coffee, itevaporated.
But it was just as if theylocked the door and walked away.
So we were able to collect andsave and salvage the entire
(13:32):
entity of the Civil DefenseHeadquarters for DC.
So we have the Bert the Turtleduck and cover, original audio
tapes and video tapes Not evenvideo reel-to-reel tapes at the
time.
We have the nuclear falloutshelter plans.
We have all of the things fromPEPCO and Washington Gas, fbi,
cia, the things that were intheir individual booths.
(13:55):
In case of a natural disasteror heaven forbid, a nuclear war,
that would have been theprimary communication center for
Washington DC to coordinate theaftermath.
So that's one of the exhibits.
We have An exhibit on the U-2incident.
You know, dad was a U-2 pilotshot down.
Of course wanted to keep hismemory alive, but it's not the
Gary Powers Museum.
(14:15):
Back 25 years ago or so, when Ifounded it, some people thought
, oh, you're doing this for yourdad.
Well, yes, I did it for my dad,but I did it for the hundreds
of thousands of other men andwomen who fought, sacrificed,
some of which who died duringthis time period, that were not
being recognized for theirservice to our country.
So there is a small section onDAD, but there's also sections
(14:35):
on overhead reconnaissance, u-2program, sr-71 program.
As we go upstairs we have anarea on Area 51 because that was
the test site for the U-2, theSR-71, the F-117 stealth and
whatever they're flying outthere today the SR-71, the F-117
stealth and whatever they'reflying out there today.
We have a section on Soviet andAmerican subs, a section on
(14:57):
American and Soviet missiles andthen, of course, the flags, the
banners, the regalia, theuniforms.
One of the unique items we haveis a Stasi headquarters sign
from the Stasi headquarters inBerlin that someone acquired
when the wall fell, yeah, and itended up in our collection.
We have a piece of the U-2 shotdown over Cuba during the Cuban
(15:21):
Missile Crisis, piloted byMajor Rudolph Anderson.
He died in that shoot down.
That was the second shoot downto happen.
Dad was the first U-2 to beshot down over the Soviet Union.
Major Anderson's U-2 over Cubaduring the Cuban Missile Crisis
was the second.
Then there were five more shotdown over mainland China during
the 60s.
(15:41):
They were flown by some unitcalled the Black Cat Program,
taiwanese pilots that weretrained by the CIA to overfly
China, and so we have some oftheir items and artifacts and
desk plaques and awards.
That tells that story.
So we have a very eclecticcollection of Cold War military
intelligence, social aspects ofthe Cold War.
Larry Zilliox (16:05):
I do want to talk a little bit about your dad.
Listeners would probablyrecognize his name from the
Spielberg Tom Hanks movie Bridgeof Spies, which was not so much
a movie about your dad butabout the lawyer who the
government asked to help freeyour dad, which was it was a
(16:29):
great movie.
And I got to say I got to tellyou this story Pre-release of
the movie, my wife and I wereinvited over there to Fairfax
for the screening that themuseum did and it's in this
really nice theater where youcan you can get your meal there
and take it into the theater andeverything.
(16:50):
And we were really excited togo because one after the movie,
you and the granddaughter of theattorney featured the Tom Hanks
character were going to do aQ&A and I knew it was going to
be good.
So we got some food and we weresitting up kind of high and then
all of a sudden this group ofguys come in with wives and the
(17:14):
wives like sit, like over hereand they've got buckets of beer
and they're sitting next to usand just having a grand old time
and I'm like, oh man, who arethese guys, you know?
And then, before the moviestarted, the head of the YouTube
pilots Association gets up and,as talk, talks about the movie
(17:38):
and YouTube pilots, and he says,oh, and we're very excited to
have some YouTube pilots in theaudience today, and it's these
guys that stand up next to us.
I had no idea.
It was really something.
It was a fantastic movie.
And so what was it likeconsulting on the movie about
your dad?
Gary Powers (17:58):
Well, let me give a little background and then I'll
go into the movie aspect of it.
Growing up in SouthernCalifornia, I was aware that my
father was shot down, imprisonedand eventually exchanged for a
Soviet spy.
This happened a few yearsbefore I was born.
I was born when he came home.
My father dies in a helicoptercrash in 1977.
I'm 12 years old at the time.
(18:20):
Now he was flying for a traffichelicopter in Los Angeles right
Correct KNBC News Station,channel 4, or News Channel 4 at
the time.
And I remember flying with himand hiking and biking and
fishing, all the normalfather-son things.
But people would ask for hisautograph.
He'd go to air shows.
I'd fly with him to the Renoair races and so I was aware
(18:42):
that he was a pilot and thatpeople wanted his autograph and
that he was in a history book.
But I just thought that wasnormal.
I thought everybody's dad wentthrough this.
I just didn't understand thesignificance of what he went
through until he died.
So he dies in 77, veryintroverted throughout high
school because I don't want totalk about it.
People ask me questions I don'tknow the answers to.
So in college I'm curious.
(19:04):
I want to find out the truth ofwhat my father went through.
He's controversial.
There are conspiracy theoriesabout him and the U2 incident.
So I want to find out the truthof what he went through.
So I know how to answerquestions.
Well, that led to the creationof the Cold War Museum.
Then that led to the things I'mdoing now lecturing, writing
and teaching Cold War history.
I have six or seven bookspublished.
(19:30):
I have one on Cold War Virginia.
I've got three on my father,one of which is a graphic novel.
I have a graphic novel out onthe Berlin Airlift and I'm
currently working on Cold WarCalifornia.
So that's what keeps me busycurrently.
In addition, I lecture everychance I get.
So if one of your listeners hasa venue, either nationally or
internationally, where I cancome out and give a talk on Cold
War history and or the U2incident, please send me an
(19:52):
email through my contact page atgarypowerscom or through
coldwarorg.
So that leads up to 2014.
I get rumors, start to hearrumors that Spielberg and Hanks
are going to do a movie thatwill portray my father.
I'm thinking at the time that'snot going to happen.
Then I get confirmation it'sgoing to happen.
(20:13):
I'm able to get in touch withtheir producer, mark Platt.
Mark Platt and I talked for anhour in July of 2014.
At the end of the conversation,mark basically says to me Mr
Powers, you're veryknowledgeable on the Cold War,
the U2 incident, what yourfather went through.
How would you like to consultfor the film?
Well, yes, that would be reallynice.
(20:35):
Sure, thank you.
So I get the contract.
I'm reading through it.
I'm to answer questions, be onset as invited, provide
photographs from my family inthe 50s that they can Photoshop,
provide audio tapes of myfather that he recorded in the
60s.
That way they can listen to himin his own words as to what he
(20:55):
went through.
And at the very end of thecontract, the last paragraph
basically says they don't haveto listen to me.
Okay, so I talked to somefriends, I talked to my sister,
and I figure it's more importantto be a part of the production,
try to steer them in the rightdirection.
Had I walked away, I'd have hadno say whatsoever.
(21:15):
So I am very glad that I didsign the contract.
It was an honor and a privilegeto work with Spielberg and Hanks
, the lighting crews, the makeup, the hairstylist, the props,
the wardrobe Just see how aHollywood movie is made from
behind the scenes.
Awesome experience.
It's quite a bit, isn't it?
Oh yeah, so much goes into it.
You just don't understand.
Yeah, meeting Austin Stoll, theyoung man who portrayed my
(21:38):
father Meeting.
Larry Zilliox (21:43):
Mark.
Gary Powers (21:43):
Reliance who portrayed Rudolph Abel meeting
the other cast and characters inthe film.
It was just a wonderfulexperience.
The overall movie we definitelylike.
The big picture is historicallyaccurate, but it's Hollywood so
you have to remember thedetails are not 100% correct.
The big picture is accurate U2incident, cold War time period,
(22:04):
soviet Union, capture of RudolphAb Ebel, shoot down of dad, the
exchange of the Gliniker Bridgeall very accurately portrayed.
But only the people on thebridge know what happened, know
where they were standing, knowwhat was said.
So Spielberg and his team haveto recreate this using their
genius to bring this scene tolife, create this using their
genius to bring this scene tolife.
The Gliniker Bridge in Potsdam,germany, is where the exchange
(22:27):
took place and it's also wherethey filmed the exchange scene.
So that is historicallyaccurate.
Other places they used a placein Poland for the Berlin Wall
scene, so again, nothistorically accurate for the
locations but on the big screenyou don't know the difference
and it's a wonderful movie.
Larry Zilliox (22:46):
Yeah, I encourage everybody to watch the movie.
It's very entertaining.
Of course, anything thatSpielberg and Tom Hanks do is
going to be first class, forsure.
Gary Powers (22:55):
And you can get copies of it DVDs and Blu-ray
off of eBay, sometimes on thestreaming services, as well as
Netflix and Showtime will alsoshow it on occasion.
Larry Zilliox (23:08):
What are the future plans for the museum?
Gary Powers (23:11):
Future plans for the Cold War Museum.
We are looking to grow on site.
My board of directors recently,in the last year, has how do I
want to say this authorized meto look for a like-minded
institution to merge with orpartner with.
We would like to stay inVirginia because, this is where
you know, it's just very closeto Washington DC and all the
(23:35):
Cold War history.
But there are several othermuseums around the country that
have a Cold War focus and we'retrying to see if we are able to
merge partner war focus andwe're trying to see if we are
able to merge partner worktogether to keep this history
alive.
I do not have a money board.
I have a functional board thatvolunteers and helps out a
retired U-2 pilot, a retiredSR-71 pilot, a retired brigadier
(23:58):
general, a leading real estatecompany owner out of the Tyson's
Corner area, a nonprofitmanagement expert, myself, a
retired CIA person and a retiredambassador that used to serve
or be stationed in Vietnam thefirst US ambassador to open that
up.
So we have eight people on ourboard.
(24:20):
But we are hand-to-mouth.
We function on donations.
We do a monthly lecture seriesvia Zoom that you will pay for a
ticket and then listen to theseCold War experts or historians
or participants talk about theirhistory.
We do two major fundraisingevents throughout the year, one
in December, one in May GiveLocal Piedmont, which is for the
(24:43):
Piedmont area.
One in May Give Local Piedmont,which is for the Piedmont area,
warrington, virginia, and thenGiving Tuesday.
Giving Tuesday is in Decemberand Give Local Piedmont is in
May.
So those are the two majorfundraisers.
Between the fundraising betweenthe donations, between the
private tours that we offer fora small fee, that's what keeps
the doors open.
We're open on the weekends,staffed by volunteers.
(25:06):
We would love to find an angelto help move our efforts forward
more quickly.
Sure, but it's just a matter ofthe outreach, getting people
interested and promoting ourefforts as where we can, just
like this program today.
Larry Zilliox (25:22):
Yeah, well, listeners, there it is, it's
coldwarorg and desperately needdonations.
So visit that webpage, givewhat you can.
It's really important and wewant to keep the museum open for
forever.
Really, there's not going to bea time when people don't need
(25:44):
to know about this.
It's an important time inhistory and it's gone unnoticed
for too long.
And if you're in the NorthernVirginia area, please think
about a weekend Saturday tripout to the Cold War Museum in
Vint Hill.
(26:04):
If you're in DC, it's a niceride right out 66.
You can see all the beautifuldata centers they're building
and then you'll get out into thecountry a little bit, and
there's plenty to do out here,but you can easily spend three
or four hours in there, yeah, orlonger, really.
Gary Powers (26:26):
And so, if you do make it out, I'm there on
occasion.
But if you want to do a grouptour midweek, just send us an
email through our website andeither I or one of the docents
will respond and select a datethat you can come in midweek to
visit.
The date that you can come inmidweek to visit.
(26:46):
We are opened on the weekendsto the public, from 11 am to 4
pm on Saturdays, 1 pm to 4 pm onSundays and then by appointment
for private groups and peoplewho can't make it on a weekend.
Some of the recent groups we'vehad include the Benjamin School
out of West Palm Beach, florida.
That's where some verywell-known celebrities' children
go.
(27:06):
We've had a group from the CIAAlumni Association came out and
visited, along with GeneralClapper who was head of what's
called National Defense,national Intelligence.
We've had some groups from theState Department Mm-hmm.
(27:45):
You said, larry, that's veryimportant is that we have to
understand Cold War history Inorder to understand what we're
happening today right in ourworld, with Ukraine and even in
Gaza.
Those have Cold War connectionsWith the Ukraine, war, putin,
the East, america and everybodyelse, the West and the surrogate
country where it's taking place, ukraine, just like Vietnam,
just like Korea, just likeAfghanistan.
(28:06):
So that's a playbook out of theCold War that's repeating
itself right now.
As far as Gaza goes, we knowthat's biblical times.
There have been a conflictthere for thousands of years,
but in 1947, israel became astate.
That is a Cold War event andfrom that moment on, palestine
did not get statehood, and therehave been confrontations ever
(28:27):
since.
That has now resulted in whatwe have in Gaza.
Yeah, so there's always aconnection to the Cold War in
current history.
Larry Zilliox (28:33):
Yeah, and I think there's some very strong
parallels to China as well.
Oh yes, Cold War now is China.
Yeah for sure.
Gary Powers (28:41):
I like to say it's Cold War 2.0.
Yep, russia, yes, they're athreat because they have nuclear
weapons, but China is thelong-term adversary.
They are looking at the moon,they are looking at South China
Sea, they have the largestmilitary in the world and they
are thinking in terms ofhundreds and thousands of years
(29:01):
in the future, and not justyears or decades.
Larry Zilliox (29:04):
Yeah, so that makes the museum important.
So everybody, get out there asquickly as you can and see it
and enjoy it.
I guarantee you you will, Untilthen, go to coldwarorg and
donate.
And you know, Gary, I can'tthank you enough for coming out.
I know you're en routesomewhere and you made a point
(29:28):
to stop off and record this withus, and we really, really
appreciate it.
Gary Powers (29:32):
Well.
Thank you, larry.
It's an honor and a privilegeto be here, and I would highly
recommend that your listenersalso date to your cause.
This facility is awesome and itreally helps the wounded
warriors coming back from battle.
Larry Zilliox (29:44):
Yeah, thank you.
So, listeners, we'll haveanother episode next Monday
morning at 0500.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.