July 28, 2025 • 27 mins
Step into the living legacy of the United States Marine Corps through the eyes of Colonel Gentry, Director of the National Museum of the Marine Corps. What began as two modest facilities has transformed into an architectural marvel purposefully designed to evoke the iconic Iwo Jima flag raising - from its angled mast mirroring the famous flagpole to its floor transitioning from sea to shore, representing the Marines' amphibious heritage.
The museum's mission extends beyond preservation. It honors veterans' selfless service, revitalizes the spirits of active-duty personnel, inspires future generations, and bridges the crucial civil-military gap for civilian visitors. This isn't a static collection of artifacts but a dynamic storytelling experience spanning 250 years of Marine Corps evolution from the Continental Marines through Afghanistan and Iraq.
What truly distinguishes this museum is its commitment to immersive experiences. Walk through Marines attacking across Belleau Wood's wheat field, feel the bitter cold of Korea's Chosin Reservoir, or witness the conditions at Vietnam's Hill 881 South. Marvel at cast figures molded from actual Marines with realistic battle details, and see the actual flag from Rosenthal's iconic Iwo Jima photograph on daily display. Every element carries meaning, creating a powerful connection between visitors and Marine Corps history.
As the Corps celebrates its 250th anniversary, exciting new developments are underway, including galleries highlighting the Medal of Honor, interwar period innovations, and unique collection pieces. With free admission and parking just off I-95 in Triangle, Virginia, there's no reason to miss this national treasure. Whether you're a Marine veteran seeking reconnection, a history enthusiast, or simply curious about this storied military branch, the National Museum of the Marine Corps offers an unforgettable journey through America's military heritage. Visit usmcmuseum.com today to plan your visit and discover upcoming events!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm Larry Zilliox, Director ofCulinary Services here at the
Warrior Retreat at Bull Run andfor today's episode we have
Colonel Gentry from the UnitedStates Marine Corps Museum.
We're joined by co-host JohnWall, retired Navy John.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
Larry, thanks for having me onagain and Colonel Gentry,
(00:21):
welcome to the podcast.
We really appreciate you comingby the retreat and just telling
us all about the Marine CorpsMuseum and, as I mentioned
earlier, first museum I've everbeen to military museum and it
was just awesome.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer.
From what I understand, you, ofcourse, started off in the 10th
(00:43):
Marines 12th, actually 12th,actually 12th.
Okay, did you ever make it tothe 13th Marine?
Is that the goal there?
You just keep going higher andhigher.
John Wall (00:53):
Well, there are three active duty regiments,
artillery regiments in theMarine Corps.
There's 10th, 11th and 12thMarines, and then there's 14th
Marines, which is the reserveregiment.
13th Marines hasn't been aroundfor a long time.
They were a World War IIregiment.
Larry Zilliox (01:07):
So 12th is the highest and the best, I'm
assuming.
John Wall (01:13):
My last fleet job was commanding the 12th Marines,
so I'm biased there.
But having said that, they'reall.
It's not a ranking of regiments.
Larry Zilliox (01:21):
They're all very good regiments, oh well, that's
how we would do it in the AirForce, but I understand Only the
Air Force.
Yeah, that's right, but if youwould tell us about the mission
of the museum and how it gotstarted and where it's at today.
John Wall (01:40):
So really we do four things at the National Museum
of the Marine Corps we honorthose who have served selflessly
before us, we revitalize thespirit of those currently
serving and we inspire young menand women to become the next
generation of Marines.
And to kind of put a fire pointon it, we want to make sure
(02:03):
that all Marine veterans,frankly all veterans, are
honored through the exhibits andthrough the stories we tell.
The revitalization part gets toevery job, gets you down at
some point, and the Marine Corpscan be a grind just like any
other service.
But what I find is when Marinesvisit that they just become
(02:27):
re-energized.
And then, of course, we want toinspire those young men and
women to, you know, seek a lifeof service, ideally service in
the Marine Corps, if they havewhat it takes to be a US Marine.
And then finally, back tobridging the civil-military gap.
You know, we find that we havea lot of visitors that have no
Marine Corps experience or noteven military experience, and so
it's a real opportunity to kindof explain what the Marine
(02:51):
Corps does, its role in society,its roles in defense, but also
the importance of serviceservice to the nation, to the
society and whatnot.
We really are a living museum,which I think makes us a little
bit different than some of theother museums.
There's almost always somethinggoing on.
If you're there on the 1st,there's guaranteed to be a slew
(03:12):
of promotions, but we are trulycradle to grave when it comes to
the different events.
So we have commissionings,promotions, reenlistments,
retirements, weddings andfunerals openings, promotions,
reenlistments, retirements,weddings and funerals, and so,
especially for those who don'thave a connection with the
military, those areopportunities for a civics
lesson.
(03:32):
I remember one time somebody, agroup, came in.
They were doing a promotion andthe person asked me well, are
we allowed to watch?
I'm like, absolutely.
They're like, well, what'sgoing on?
Well, it's a promotion.
And it gave me an opportunityto say well, that officer
they're going to read, in thiscase, his commission.
That's where he gets hisauthority to give orders and oh,
(03:54):
by the way, he's going toreaffirm his oath of office to
the Constitution of the UnitedStates.
Here's what that means.
We're not talking about, youknow, a piece of parchment.
We're talking about the idea ofthe United States and to
support and defend thatconstitution, that idea, against
all enemies, foreign anddomestic.
Your other part of the question, where you know where did we
(04:17):
come from that sort of thing?
There were really two parts tothe museum before 2006.
There was a small museum up inthe Navy Yard, kind of hard to
get to, dark, dingy.
It was an okay museum but itwasn't large, it didn't have a
lot of pizzazz to it.
And then down at Quantico wehad the Air Ground Museum, which
(04:39):
consisted really of old hangars, old buildings down there with
a lot of stuff, airplanes andvehicles and whatnot, and
frankly the museum was notprofessional at that point.
I'm not throwing shade onpredecessors, but it was a lot
of well-meaning folks collectingthings and often without a very
(05:01):
disciplined collectionsrationale.
So we got a lot of stuffwithout a very disciplined
collections rationale.
So we haven't got a lot ofstuff In 2006,.
Well, we opened the new museumon 10 November 2006.
Starting a little bit before,that is when the real
professionalization of themuseum occurred, and lots of
credit to Lynn Azell, who's thefirst director of the new museum
.
We poached her from theSmithsonian Air and Space Museum
(05:23):
and she brought that set ofprofessional standards to what
was now the National Museum ofthe Marine Corps, to the point
where we actually becameaccredited by the American
Alliance of Museums and recentlyreaccredited.
So that's that outside measureof yes, we are truly meeting
that professional mark.
Larry Zilliox (05:44):
So the exhibits I remember visiting very vividly.
One is the design of the museumis fascinating and you get that
on full view because there's abit of a walk up to the museum,
which I've got to believe wasdone on purpose, because you
then get to take in the entirebuilding in itself, which is the
(06:07):
first thing that you get tothink about when you say, well,
I don't know what's inside, butit's already pretty cool.
And then you get inside and youhave that atrium in there and
various levels and the staff andthe volunteers that are there
for the tours and directing youare wonderful and it's really a
(06:29):
fascinating walk through thehistory of the Marine Corps.
But it also really highlightsthe heroic actions of many
Marines and or people who aren'tfamiliar with the Marine Corps.
Their familiarity really comesfrom watching old John Wayne
movies that were set in, youknow, like San Diego or
(06:50):
someplace.
This is a real amazing glimpseof what the Marine Corps is
really all about and its heartand the one thing, the theme
that you get through the entirething is that it's selfless
service, it's dedication to thecountry and to the core, from
(07:10):
start to finish.
Tell us a little bit about whatthe exhibits are and how do you
decide what's going to go onexhibit?
Because once it opened, I'msure you were just flooded with
all sorts of hey, here's my messkit from when I was in Vietnam,
and you know, of course theythink that's a treasure, but you
(07:32):
probably have 40 mess kits fromVietnam.
But how do you decide on whatyou want to put on display?
John Wall (07:39):
That's a really good question.
There's several facets to it.
Part of it is we use ourartifacts to tell stories, and
so, unlike some museums that area building filled with things,
we purposely pick artifacts totell a story.
So it might be, you know, we'vegot an H-34 Delta on one of the
(08:04):
tableaus when you first come in.
That represents the firstbattalion-sized helicopter-borne
operation in the Marine Corps,operation Starlight in 1965.
And so each one of those has astory behind it.
But you have to have anartifact to tell a story, and so
part of the challenge is iswhat do we have in the
(08:25):
collection?
And there's kind of a littlebit of a wave of when we get
different sets of artifacts.
So when the veteran is stillalive and kicking, they
typically don't donate theirstuff.
I mean, some do, but a lot ofit's.
Hey, this is my thing.
This is my mesquite, this is mywhatever, and it's part of their
story, and so they typically,you know, they keep hold of it,
(08:48):
but when that veteran passesaway, then you know it falls to
the children, and then later,sometimes, the grandchildren.
There's a point where it's likeyou're like ah yeah, this it's
old, it seems kind of important,but maybe the, maybe the
National Museum of the MarineCorps is a better place for it,
and so you start seeing kind ofbulges of collections or of
(09:12):
donations, based on kind ofwhere that conflict is in its
life cycle or how far back itgoes.
So that's one challenge.
The other challenge is there'sa lot of stories to tell.
So that's one challenge.
The other challenge is there'sa lot of stories to tell, and
it's not uncommon for me to geta visitor comment that's like
hey, can you tell the story ofthis?
It's like well, one, I don'thave anything to tell that story
(09:35):
with, and two, that is so nichethat I don't have room to tell
the story.
So that's certainly a challenge.
The way we've organized, though,is we really want to.
You know, we're a warfightingorganization, and so we start
off by telling people here's howwe make Marines, and we think
that's very important and thethings that we concentrate on.
And then we talk about theearly era, so the Continental
(09:58):
Marines through the Civil War,and then that period late 1800s
up to World War I, and then it'sbasically then the next three
galleries, four galleries, arewar, world War I, world War II,
korea, vietnam.
Then we have kind of thatperiod of time where there was a
lot going on the Beirut bombing, invasion of Grenada, desert
(10:23):
Storm, plus a myriad of othernamed operations going on.
Then we have that bridgingevent, 9-11, and then our last
gallery that talks about war isAfghanistan and Iraq, and that
had its own unique challengebecause, once again, not a lot
of artifacts early on.
So the challenge to tell thestory.
(10:44):
But we also, whereas everywhereelse, challenge to tell the
story.
But we also, whereas everywhereelse we can tell the story
chronologically, becauseAfghanistan and Iraq overlap.
You know, afghanistan, iraq,back to Afghanistan, iraq and
then back to Afghanistan.
We chose to tell, basicallytalk about Afghanistan and then
shift to Iraq, and so that'skind of how we're formed, we're
building it around, and so ifyou come in the entrance, go to
(11:06):
the left and just keep goingclockwise, then you'll catch
about 250 years of Marine Corpshistory.
Larry Zilliox (11:15):
Wow, wow.
Do you have an exhibit aboutthe Marines who defended the
embassy and were last to leavein Vietnam?
John Wall (11:23):
So not a full-blown exhibit on that, but we do have
pictures that show that andfrankly, there's a little
talking to Vietnam veterans.
There's some frustrationbecause the Marine Corps
basically was out of their 72,73, maybe the last advisors.
There were still Marines incountry, you know with the
(11:45):
embassy and whatnot, but the warfor the Marine Corps was
already over.
And then that last piece, theevacuation of the embassy in
Saigon.
Marines participated in thatbut that's really kind of post
the war and that's a nuance Ididn't, I wasn't really
appreciative of until talking toone of the docents who's a
Vietnam veteran.
Col. Keil Gentry (12:07):
So thanks, Colonel, for being here Now.
Are you still active or retiredin this position, or how does
that work?
I'm retired, You're retired,Colonel, so I appreciate your
service and I remember as ayoung man I was telling you
earlier off mic here that I grewup in Triangle, Virginia.
And the museum is located intriangle, virginia.
For our listeners that want togo and check this place out, and
(12:30):
I remember, um, vaguelyremember, this building go up.
And it started going up and itgot to a point where you're like
what is this thing?
Cause when you're a young manyou're like this thing looks
like a spaceship, right, likethis is not a normal building
and the way they designed it isjust it's impeccable.
(12:52):
And you talked about in 2006,when you really kind of pulled
two locations together and thenstarted this process.
How did that come about?
Was that, is that someone inthe military that thought of
that, or civilians, or bothpeople?
How did that come about?
And then, can you talk a littlebit about the architectural of
(13:13):
the building?
John Wall (13:14):
So it's really a two-parter on how that all came
about.
So there was the Marine CorpsHeritage Foundation, which is a
nonprofit foundation thatsupports the Museum History
Division, the band and whatnot.
They, in the 90s, startedraising money with this vision
(13:34):
of creating a National Museum ofthe Marine Corps and, frankly,
if it had been left to theMarine Corps' devices it would
not be such a magnificentbuilding.
And so they raised the money,had it designed, built the
building with, of course, marineCorps input into the process.
The land itself is actuallypart of Marine Corps Base
(13:55):
Quantico.
There was a land swap years agobetween the county.
The land itself is actuallypart of Marine Corps Base
Quantico.
There was a land swap years agobetween the county, so Marine
Corps took part of Locust.
Shade Park became Marine Corpsproperty, so the land belongs to
the Marine Corps.
The building actually stillbelongs to the foundation.
Once they pay off the loan bylaw it will transfer to the
Marine Corps.
And so they were verythoughtful in the design and
(14:20):
they had several pitches fromdifferent architectural firms
and as soon as they saw the onefrom Fentress they were like,
yeah, that's what we want.
And there were a few two weeksafter that.
But the design is supposed toevoke the second flag raising on
Mount Suribachi.
Col. Keil Gentry (14:37):
That's what I thought it was.
John Wall (14:38):
Exactly and so specifically say the second flag
raising, because that's the onethat Joe Rosenthal captured in
his iconic photo, and I don'tthink there's an American that's
10 years old or more thatdoesn't recognize that image.
They oriented it such that it,you know it pokes through the
tree line there, and so thefirst folks that notice it are
(15:01):
the folks going up and down 95.
In fact, it's not uncommon forpeople to stop by and go.
You know, I've always wonderedwhat that thing was.
So that's the first thing thatattracts you.
And then you're absolutelyright, it is by design.
As you come up, you just kindof soak in the magnificence of
(15:24):
the architecture, and one of myfavorite things is to watch
folks who visit the first time,because they come into the
building and as they enterLeatherneck Gallery, which is
the large central gallery, Iwatched their heads go up and
their mouths open and they justpaused there for a moment in awe
.
And everything in the buildinghas meaning, To include the
(15:44):
floor that is the mezzaninethere, or the floor in the
Leatherneck Gallery,specifically designed.
It goes from dark blue to lightblue, to tan, to brown and
green, because Marinestraditionally come from the sea.
We fight ashore and we returnto the sea.
And the mast, which is thelarge metal angled architectural
(16:05):
feature in the middle which youcan see from the outside as
well, that is at the same angle,or nearly the same angle as the
flagpole in the photograph.
So other details that reallymake things special are
throughout the museum.
We have what we call castfigures, and I specifically
don't call them mannequins ordummies or something like that,
(16:28):
because all the adults are nokidding live cast of either
Marines or somebody associatedwith the Marine Corps.
So what we do is we put them intheir action pose.
We take four molds legs, torso,arms and head.
It's about a four-hour processto include a couple straws up
the nose so they can breathe.
And once the molds are made,then they're poured and then the
(16:52):
artists really go to work.
So you'll see the sheen ofsweat, the grime of battle, and
you can see how they become moreand more realistic looking, and
it's not uncommon for somebodyto say, well, that cast figure
looks kind of familiar, but itmay well be somebody they know.
And then we get the occasionalham that comes and goes hey,
check me out.
But, like I say, there'smeaning in everything To include
(17:16):
.
As an old Navy guy, you wouldappreciate the superstructure,
the haze, gray paint scheme,because we are naval, that's
right.
And so we've been on shipssince 1775.
Still there today.
Col. Keil Gentry (17:31):
Yeah, wow, that's great.
I didn't know you guys went tothat level of detail and
that's's very impressive andkind of a little shame to say I
haven't visited.
So now I think my wife and Iare going to take a trip real
soon.
Go check this place out.
Are you still in the process ofthat to bring in more
(17:54):
storytelling so we can honor theMarines?
And you know, and I think yousaid earlier, there's other
service members storytelling inthere as well.
John Wall (18:03):
So, to go back a little bit further in time, the
initial amount that thefoundation had was enough to
build about half the buildingand then in 2017, that's when
they kind of finished the restof it.
So now it's a completely roundbuilding.
The galleries themselves wetell the story through if you
want to be technical 2021 withthe withdrawal from Afghanistan,
(18:25):
but we have three galleries inthe works that we want to
continue to tell the MarineCorps stories.
So there's one that we call theHall of Valor, which will
highlight the Medal of Honor andother you know Navy Cross and
awards like that, because wewant to really showcase the
valor associated with thoseawards.
Great idea an actual gallerythat talks about it.
(18:52):
And that's the time periodbetween World War I and World
War II, which is really atouchstone for the Marine Corps
because there's a lot ofinnovation going on.
Marine Corps was really doing alot of small unit stuff prior to
World War I.
Now was our first experiencewith larger formations.
So you had the 5th Marine, 6thMarines and the 5th Machine Gun
(19:15):
Battalion, all part of the 2ndDivision, which was an Army
division later commanded byGeneral Lejeune, the United
States Marine Corps.
And so after World War I therewas kind of a decision point
whether, hey, do we go back tobeing ships, detachments and
just small unit stuff,constabulary units, actions and
whatnot.
And we did do some of that.
But we also looked at formingthe Fleet Marine Force and just
(19:37):
small unit stuff, constabularyunit, actions and whatnot, and
we did do some of that.
But we also looked at formingthe Fleet Marine Force and how
would we be able to supportnaval operations, advanced base
operations, things like that?
And so we then startedexperimenting with aerial
gunnery, mostly in support ofground forces.
We started refining amphibiousdoctrine, amphibious assault
(19:59):
doctrine, the equipment requiredto implement that, and so that
was a very vibrant timeintellectually and doctrinally
for the Marine Corps, and weoften refer back to it because
we go through those periods timeby time.
In fact, arguably we're in thatperiod right now, and so we
really want to highlight that sothat we can really draw those
(20:21):
lessons and make them come alivefor this generation of Marines.
Larry Zilliox (20:25):
Listeners, I want to direct your attention to the
webpage.
It's usmcmuseumcom.
I'd like everybody to head overto the webpage, find the
address, go visit.
I'm hoping that there's adonate button on that webpage.
If there is bang on it, givewhat you can.
Um, this is a pretty massiveendeavor.
(20:45):
It takes a lot of money to run.
You got to just see electricalbill alone.
I can't even imagine whatthat's like.
So donate if you can and checkit out.
I want everybody to go in theNorthern Virginia area.
There's no excuse for not going.
It's been there long enough.
I think it's a lot like theEmpire State Building.
People who live in New YorkCity don't visit it until
(21:06):
relatives come.
So do yourself a favor, go seeit.
Don't wait for your MarineCorps veteran Uncle Bob to come
visit you.
You can go and see it,experience it.
Then call Uncle Bob, and now hehas a reason to come visit you
because you're going to tell himhow amazing this museum is.
(21:28):
But again, it's usmcmuseumcomand it's free to get in.
There's charge.
There's no charge for parking.
You're not it's.
It's not like udvar hazy outhere where, hey, yeah, the
museum's free, but it's 20 bucksto park.
You know it's ridiculous.
Um so, really check out the webpage.
(21:50):
And, colonel, do you put upspecial events on the web page,
so do you can?
Can they they see from thewebpage that there's going to be
a promotion ceremony, or isthat stuff just kind of the word
?
John Wall (22:04):
spread internally.
Well, they won't see thingslike a promotion ceremony, but
what they will see is, forinstance, our summer concert
series, where we have had thePresident's Own Southern Marine
Corps Band.
This next one coming up is, Ithink, the President's Own Big
Band, and the end of the summerwill be the President's Own
again.
So in between we have a NavyBand, I think the Air Force Band
(22:26):
as well.
So there's a lot of thoseevents going on.
We had a car show last Sundaywhich was pretty well attended
over 80 entrants Wow, Hundredsof folks visited.
We currently have a 250th artshow that we just opened earlier
this month, and even if you'renot an art person, you will like
(22:46):
this show.
It is just eye-wateringly wellput together and it does two
things put together and it doestwo things.
There's one alcove that has19th century paintings that have
Marines in older uniforms, buton the outside and flowing
through it is 250 years ofMarine Corps history.
So starting with ContinentalMarines all the way up to
(23:10):
Special Operations Marinesoperating today.
So that is a really goodexhibit.
In September we're going toopen another exhibit and this
was an opportunity for thecurators to go through the
collection, pick out things thatwe normally wouldn't exhibit
but are really interesting, andso that's going to be on display
(23:30):
.
We've been really kind ofcelebrating the Marine Corps'
250th since 11 November lastyear.
Right.
And of course it will culminatethis year on 10 November, and so
we've decorated it in kind of a250th theme and people often
talk well, what are you doingfor the 250th?
(23:51):
It's like every day is a 250thin this building, but the art
show and this other collectionalso kind of are special as far
as that goes.
Larry Zilliox (24:00):
Well, listeners, again, it's usmcmuseumcom.
Check it out, plan a visit.
It's not far.
It's at the south end of thecounty for Prince William County
, down right along 95 and Route1.
There, you don't want to missit.
Take the family, take everybody.
(24:21):
Everybody's going to enjoy itand have a good time.
So, colonel, thank you so muchfor coming out and joining us.
This has been great.
Col. Keil Gentry (24:30):
Oh, thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, we appreciate it.
Is there one last thought?
You have to let our listenersknow about the place that you'd
like to share.
John Wall (24:38):
Please come visit.
It is truly an honor to be ableto tell the Marine Corps story
and I think that the way we'vedone it will engage you.
Something we didn't talk aboutearlier, but quick.
Mention is throughout themuseum.
We have different, what we callimmersive exhibits.
Mention is throughout themuseum.
We have different, what we callimmersive exhibits, and so some
(25:03):
of the must not miss ones arewe've got Marines attacking
across the wheat field inBelleau Wood and you feel like
you're there and there are a lotof good lessons learned there.
In the World War II gallery youcan see the actual flag that is
in Rosenthal's iconic photo Wow,we have that on display every
day.
And then on the anniversary ofthe Battle of Iwo Jima, we bring
out the first flag, so you cansee both of them.
In Korea you can feel the coldof Tak-Tong Pass, as Fox 27 held
(25:29):
the pass to allow the 1stMarine Division to fight their
way south out of the ChosinReservoir.
In Vietnam, you can experienceHill 881 South as part of the
Khe Sanh campaign, and in ourother forward deploy gallery you
can see how Marines live aboardship, and that's an interesting
experience.
And then in theAfghanistan-Iraq exhibit you can
(25:50):
see how Marines live in aforward operating base, but you
can also experience kind of whatit's like to fight in a village
or a town in Iraq.
Col. Keil Gentry (26:00):
Wow, Well, we appreciate that and we've got to
make sure you know, larry, thatwe keep doing this, keep
honoring our service members andthe history of them as well.
Larry Zilliox (26:09):
Yeah, it's an amazing experience Marine Corps
Museum experience, marine CorpsMuseum or we're going to do an
episode coming up with theAmericans in wartime museum.
That's brand new.
It used to be the old tank farmand we're excited about that.
So we're sort of doing thisseries here again.
Colonel, thank you so much forcoming out and joining us.
(26:30):
Oh, thank you.
So for our listeners, we'llhave another episode next Monday
morning.
So for our listeners, we'llhave another episode next Monday
morning.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America Radio.
So thanks for listening.
Good morning.
I'm Larry Zilliox, Director ofCulinary Services here at the
Warrior Retreat at Bull Run andfor today's episode we have
Colonel Gentry from the UnitedStates Marine Corps Museum.
We're joined by co-host JohnWall, retired Navy John.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
Larry, thanks for having me onagain and Colonel Gentry,
(00:21):
welcome to the podcast.
We really appreciate you comingby the retreat and just telling
us all about the Marine CorpsMuseum and, as I mentioned
earlier, first museum I've everbeen to military museum and it
was just awesome.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer.
From what I understand, you, ofcourse, started off in the 10th
(00:43):
Marines 12th, actually 12th,actually 12th.
Okay, did you ever make it tothe 13th Marine?
Is that the goal there?
You just keep going higher andhigher.
John Wall (00:53):
Well, there are three active duty regiments,
artillery regiments in theMarine Corps.
There's 10th, 11th and 12thMarines, and then there's 14th
Marines, which is the reserveregiment.
13th Marines hasn't been aroundfor a long time.
They were a World War IIregiment.
Larry Zilliox (01:07):
So 12th is the highest and the best, I'm
assuming.
John Wall (01:13):
My last fleet job was commanding the 12th Marines,
so I'm biased there.
But having said that, they'reall.
It's not a ranking of regiments.
Larry Zilliox (01:21):
They're all very good regiments, oh well, that's
how we would do it in the AirForce, but I understand Only the
Air Force.
Yeah, that's right, but if youwould tell us about the mission
of the museum and how it gotstarted and where it's at today.
John Wall (01:40):
So really we do four things at the National Museum
of the Marine Corps we honorthose who have served selflessly
before us, we revitalize thespirit of those currently
serving and we inspire young menand women to become the next
generation of Marines.
And to kind of put a fire pointon it, we want to make sure
(02:03):
that all Marine veterans,frankly all veterans, are
honored through the exhibits andthrough the stories we tell.
The revitalization part gets toevery job, gets you down at
some point, and the Marine Corpscan be a grind just like any
other service.
But what I find is when Marinesvisit that they just become
(02:27):
re-energized.
And then, of course, we want toinspire those young men and
women to, you know, seek a lifeof service, ideally service in
the Marine Corps, if they havewhat it takes to be a US Marine.
And then finally, back tobridging the civil-military gap.
You know, we find that we havea lot of visitors that have no
Marine Corps experience or noteven military experience, and so
it's a real opportunity to kindof explain what the Marine
(02:51):
Corps does, its role in society,its roles in defense, but also
the importance of serviceservice to the nation, to the
society and whatnot.
We really are a living museum,which I think makes us a little
bit different than some of theother museums.
There's almost always somethinggoing on.
If you're there on the 1st,there's guaranteed to be a slew
(03:12):
of promotions, but we are trulycradle to grave when it comes to
the different events.
So we have commissionings,promotions, reenlistments,
retirements, weddings andfunerals openings, promotions,
reenlistments, retirements,weddings and funerals, and so,
especially for those who don'thave a connection with the
military, those areopportunities for a civics
lesson.
(03:32):
I remember one time somebody, agroup, came in.
They were doing a promotion andthe person asked me well, are
we allowed to watch?
I'm like, absolutely.
They're like, well, what'sgoing on?
Well, it's a promotion.
And it gave me an opportunityto say well, that officer
they're going to read, in thiscase, his commission.
That's where he gets hisauthority to give orders and oh,
(03:54):
by the way, he's going toreaffirm his oath of office to
the Constitution of the UnitedStates.
Here's what that means.
We're not talking about, youknow, a piece of parchment.
We're talking about the idea ofthe United States and to
support and defend thatconstitution, that idea, against
all enemies, foreign anddomestic.
Your other part of the question, where you know where did we
(04:17):
come from that sort of thing?
There were really two parts tothe museum before 2006.
There was a small museum up inthe Navy Yard, kind of hard to
get to, dark, dingy.
It was an okay museum but itwasn't large, it didn't have a
lot of pizzazz to it.
And then down at Quantico wehad the Air Ground Museum, which
(04:39):
consisted really of old hangars, old buildings down there with
a lot of stuff, airplanes andvehicles and whatnot, and
frankly the museum was notprofessional at that point.
I'm not throwing shade onpredecessors, but it was a lot
of well-meaning folks collectingthings and often without a very
(05:01):
disciplined collectionsrationale.
So we got a lot of stuffwithout a very disciplined
collections rationale.
So we haven't got a lot ofstuff In 2006,.
Well, we opened the new museumon 10 November 2006.
Starting a little bit before,that is when the real
professionalization of themuseum occurred, and lots of
credit to Lynn Azell, who's thefirst director of the new museum
.
We poached her from theSmithsonian Air and Space Museum
(05:23):
and she brought that set ofprofessional standards to what
was now the National Museum ofthe Marine Corps, to the point
where we actually becameaccredited by the American
Alliance of Museums and recentlyreaccredited.
So that's that outside measureof yes, we are truly meeting
that professional mark.
Larry Zilliox (05:44):
So the exhibits I remember visiting very vividly.
One is the design of the museumis fascinating and you get that
on full view because there's abit of a walk up to the museum,
which I've got to believe wasdone on purpose, because you
then get to take in the entirebuilding in itself, which is the
(06:07):
first thing that you get tothink about when you say, well,
I don't know what's inside, butit's already pretty cool.
And then you get inside and youhave that atrium in there and
various levels and the staff andthe volunteers that are there
for the tours and directing youare wonderful and it's really a
(06:29):
fascinating walk through thehistory of the Marine Corps.
But it also really highlightsthe heroic actions of many
Marines and or people who aren'tfamiliar with the Marine Corps.
Their familiarity really comesfrom watching old John Wayne
movies that were set in, youknow, like San Diego or
(06:50):
someplace.
This is a real amazing glimpseof what the Marine Corps is
really all about and its heartand the one thing, the theme
that you get through the entirething is that it's selfless
service, it's dedication to thecountry and to the core, from
(07:10):
start to finish.
Tell us a little bit about whatthe exhibits are and how do you
decide what's going to go onexhibit?
Because once it opened, I'msure you were just flooded with
all sorts of hey, here's my messkit from when I was in Vietnam,
and you know, of course theythink that's a treasure, but you
(07:32):
probably have 40 mess kits fromVietnam.
But how do you decide on whatyou want to put on display?
John Wall (07:39):
That's a really good question.
There's several facets to it.
Part of it is we use ourartifacts to tell stories, and
so, unlike some museums that area building filled with things,
we purposely pick artifacts totell a story.
So it might be, you know, we'vegot an H-34 Delta on one of the
(08:04):
tableaus when you first come in.
That represents the firstbattalion-sized helicopter-borne
operation in the Marine Corps,operation Starlight in 1965.
And so each one of those has astory behind it.
But you have to have anartifact to tell a story, and so
part of the challenge is iswhat do we have in the
(08:25):
collection?
And there's kind of a littlebit of a wave of when we get
different sets of artifacts.
So when the veteran is stillalive and kicking, they
typically don't donate theirstuff.
I mean, some do, but a lot ofit's.
Hey, this is my thing.
This is my mesquite, this is mywhatever, and it's part of their
story, and so they typically,you know, they keep hold of it,
(08:48):
but when that veteran passesaway, then you know it falls to
the children, and then later,sometimes, the grandchildren.
There's a point where it's likeyou're like ah yeah, this it's
old, it seems kind of important,but maybe the, maybe the
National Museum of the MarineCorps is a better place for it,
and so you start seeing kind ofbulges of collections or of
(09:12):
donations, based on kind ofwhere that conflict is in its
life cycle or how far back itgoes.
So that's one challenge.
The other challenge is there'sa lot of stories to tell.
So that's one challenge.
The other challenge is there'sa lot of stories to tell, and
it's not uncommon for me to geta visitor comment that's like
hey, can you tell the story ofthis?
It's like well, one, I don'thave anything to tell that story
(09:35):
with, and two, that is so nichethat I don't have room to tell
the story.
So that's certainly a challenge.
The way we've organized, though,is we really want to.
You know, we're a warfightingorganization, and so we start
off by telling people here's howwe make Marines, and we think
that's very important and thethings that we concentrate on.
And then we talk about theearly era, so the Continental
(09:58):
Marines through the Civil War,and then that period late 1800s
up to World War I, and then it'sbasically then the next three
galleries, four galleries, arewar, world War I, world War II,
korea, vietnam.
Then we have kind of thatperiod of time where there was a
lot going on the Beirut bombing, invasion of Grenada, desert
(10:23):
Storm, plus a myriad of othernamed operations going on.
Then we have that bridgingevent, 9-11, and then our last
gallery that talks about war isAfghanistan and Iraq, and that
had its own unique challengebecause, once again, not a lot
of artifacts early on.
So the challenge to tell thestory.
(10:44):
But we also, whereas everywhereelse, challenge to tell the
story.
But we also, whereas everywhereelse we can tell the story
chronologically, becauseAfghanistan and Iraq overlap.
You know, afghanistan, iraq,back to Afghanistan, iraq and
then back to Afghanistan.
We chose to tell, basicallytalk about Afghanistan and then
shift to Iraq, and so that'skind of how we're formed, we're
building it around, and so ifyou come in the entrance, go to
(11:06):
the left and just keep goingclockwise, then you'll catch
about 250 years of Marine Corpshistory.
Larry Zilliox (11:15):
Wow, wow.
Do you have an exhibit aboutthe Marines who defended the
embassy and were last to leavein Vietnam?
John Wall (11:23):
So not a full-blown exhibit on that, but we do have
pictures that show that andfrankly, there's a little
talking to Vietnam veterans.
There's some frustrationbecause the Marine Corps
basically was out of their 72,73, maybe the last advisors.
There were still Marines incountry, you know with the
(11:45):
embassy and whatnot, but the warfor the Marine Corps was
already over.
And then that last piece, theevacuation of the embassy in
Saigon.
Marines participated in thatbut that's really kind of post
the war and that's a nuance Ididn't, I wasn't really
appreciative of until talking toone of the docents who's a
Vietnam veteran.
Col. Keil Gentry (12:07):
So thanks, Colonel, for being here Now.
Are you still active or retiredin this position, or how does
that work?
I'm retired, You're retired,Colonel, so I appreciate your
service and I remember as ayoung man I was telling you
earlier off mic here that I grewup in Triangle, Virginia.
And the museum is located intriangle, virginia.
For our listeners that want togo and check this place out, and
(12:30):
I remember, um, vaguelyremember, this building go up.
And it started going up and itgot to a point where you're like
what is this thing?
Cause when you're a young manyou're like this thing looks
like a spaceship, right, likethis is not a normal building
and the way they designed it isjust it's impeccable.
(12:52):
And you talked about in 2006,when you really kind of pulled
two locations together and thenstarted this process.
How did that come about?
Was that, is that someone inthe military that thought of
that, or civilians, or bothpeople?
How did that come about?
And then, can you talk a littlebit about the architectural of
(13:13):
the building?
John Wall (13:14):
So it's really a two-parter on how that all came
about.
So there was the Marine CorpsHeritage Foundation, which is a
nonprofit foundation thatsupports the Museum History
Division, the band and whatnot.
They, in the 90s, startedraising money with this vision
(13:34):
of creating a National Museum ofthe Marine Corps and, frankly,
if it had been left to theMarine Corps' devices it would
not be such a magnificentbuilding.
And so they raised the money,had it designed, built the
building with, of course, marineCorps input into the process.
The land itself is actuallypart of Marine Corps Base
(13:55):
Quantico.
There was a land swap years agobetween the county.
The land itself is actuallypart of Marine Corps Base
Quantico.
There was a land swap years agobetween the county, so Marine
Corps took part of Locust.
Shade Park became Marine Corpsproperty, so the land belongs to
the Marine Corps.
The building actually stillbelongs to the foundation.
Once they pay off the loan bylaw it will transfer to the
Marine Corps.
And so they were verythoughtful in the design and
(14:20):
they had several pitches fromdifferent architectural firms
and as soon as they saw the onefrom Fentress they were like,
yeah, that's what we want.
And there were a few two weeksafter that.
But the design is supposed toevoke the second flag raising on
Mount Suribachi.
Col. Keil Gentry (14:37):
That's what I thought it was.
John Wall (14:38):
Exactly and so specifically say the second flag
raising, because that's the onethat Joe Rosenthal captured in
his iconic photo, and I don'tthink there's an American that's
10 years old or more thatdoesn't recognize that image.
They oriented it such that it,you know it pokes through the
tree line there, and so thefirst folks that notice it are
(15:01):
the folks going up and down 95.
In fact, it's not uncommon forpeople to stop by and go.
You know, I've always wonderedwhat that thing was.
So that's the first thing thatattracts you.
And then you're absolutelyright, it is by design.
As you come up, you just kindof soak in the magnificence of
(15:24):
the architecture, and one of myfavorite things is to watch
folks who visit the first time,because they come into the
building and as they enterLeatherneck Gallery, which is
the large central gallery, Iwatched their heads go up and
their mouths open and they justpaused there for a moment in awe
.
And everything in the buildinghas meaning, To include the
(15:44):
floor that is the mezzaninethere, or the floor in the
Leatherneck Gallery,specifically designed.
It goes from dark blue to lightblue, to tan, to brown and
green, because Marinestraditionally come from the sea.
We fight ashore and we returnto the sea.
And the mast, which is thelarge metal angled architectural
(16:05):
feature in the middle which youcan see from the outside as
well, that is at the same angle,or nearly the same angle as the
flagpole in the photograph.
So other details that reallymake things special are
throughout the museum.
We have what we call castfigures, and I specifically
don't call them mannequins ordummies or something like that,
(16:28):
because all the adults are nokidding live cast of either
Marines or somebody associatedwith the Marine Corps.
So what we do is we put them intheir action pose.
We take four molds legs, torso,arms and head.
It's about a four-hour processto include a couple straws up
the nose so they can breathe.
And once the molds are made,then they're poured and then the
(16:52):
artists really go to work.
So you'll see the sheen ofsweat, the grime of battle, and
you can see how they become moreand more realistic looking, and
it's not uncommon for somebodyto say, well, that cast figure
looks kind of familiar, but itmay well be somebody they know.
And then we get the occasionalham that comes and goes hey,
check me out.
But, like I say, there'smeaning in everything To include
(17:16):
.
As an old Navy guy, you wouldappreciate the superstructure,
the haze, gray paint scheme,because we are naval, that's
right.
And so we've been on shipssince 1775.
Still there today.
Col. Keil Gentry (17:31):
Yeah, wow, that's great.
I didn't know you guys went tothat level of detail and
that's's very impressive andkind of a little shame to say I
haven't visited.
So now I think my wife and Iare going to take a trip real
soon.
Go check this place out.
Are you still in the process ofthat to bring in more
(17:54):
storytelling so we can honor theMarines?
And you know, and I think yousaid earlier, there's other
service members storytelling inthere as well.
John Wall (18:03):
So, to go back a little bit further in time, the
initial amount that thefoundation had was enough to
build about half the buildingand then in 2017, that's when
they kind of finished the restof it.
So now it's a completely roundbuilding.
The galleries themselves wetell the story through if you
want to be technical 2021 withthe withdrawal from Afghanistan,
(18:25):
but we have three galleries inthe works that we want to
continue to tell the MarineCorps stories.
So there's one that we call theHall of Valor, which will
highlight the Medal of Honor andother you know Navy Cross and
awards like that, because wewant to really showcase the
valor associated with thoseawards.
Great idea an actual gallerythat talks about it.
(18:52):
And that's the time periodbetween World War I and World
War II, which is really atouchstone for the Marine Corps
because there's a lot ofinnovation going on.
Marine Corps was really doing alot of small unit stuff prior to
World War I.
Now was our first experiencewith larger formations.
So you had the 5th Marine, 6thMarines and the 5th Machine Gun
(19:15):
Battalion, all part of the 2ndDivision, which was an Army
division later commanded byGeneral Lejeune, the United
States Marine Corps.
And so after World War I therewas kind of a decision point
whether, hey, do we go back tobeing ships, detachments and
just small unit stuff,constabulary units, actions and
whatnot.
And we did do some of that.
But we also looked at formingthe Fleet Marine Force and just
(19:37):
small unit stuff, constabularyunit, actions and whatnot, and
we did do some of that.
But we also looked at formingthe Fleet Marine Force and how
would we be able to supportnaval operations, advanced base
operations, things like that?
And so we then startedexperimenting with aerial
gunnery, mostly in support ofground forces.
We started refining amphibiousdoctrine, amphibious assault
(19:59):
doctrine, the equipment requiredto implement that, and so that
was a very vibrant timeintellectually and doctrinally
for the Marine Corps, and weoften refer back to it because
we go through those periods timeby time.
In fact, arguably we're in thatperiod right now, and so we
really want to highlight that sothat we can really draw those
(20:21):
lessons and make them come alivefor this generation of Marines.
Larry Zilliox (20:25):
Listeners, I want to direct your attention to the
webpage.
It's usmcmuseumcom.
I'd like everybody to head overto the webpage, find the
address, go visit.
I'm hoping that there's adonate button on that webpage.
If there is bang on it, givewhat you can.
Um, this is a pretty massiveendeavor.
(20:45):
It takes a lot of money to run.
You got to just see electricalbill alone.
I can't even imagine whatthat's like.
So donate if you can and checkit out.
I want everybody to go in theNorthern Virginia area.
There's no excuse for not going.
It's been there long enough.
I think it's a lot like theEmpire State Building.
People who live in New YorkCity don't visit it until
(21:06):
relatives come.
So do yourself a favor, go seeit.
Don't wait for your MarineCorps veteran Uncle Bob to come
visit you.
You can go and see it,experience it.
Then call Uncle Bob, and now hehas a reason to come visit you
because you're going to tell himhow amazing this museum is.
(21:28):
But again, it's usmcmuseumcomand it's free to get in.
There's charge.
There's no charge for parking.
You're not it's.
It's not like udvar hazy outhere where, hey, yeah, the
museum's free, but it's 20 bucksto park.
You know it's ridiculous.
Um so, really check out the webpage.
(21:50):
And, colonel, do you put upspecial events on the web page,
so do you can?
Can they they see from thewebpage that there's going to be
a promotion ceremony, or isthat stuff just kind of the word
?
John Wall (22:04):
spread internally.
Well, they won't see thingslike a promotion ceremony, but
what they will see is, forinstance, our summer concert
series, where we have had thePresident's Own Southern Marine
Corps Band.
This next one coming up is, Ithink, the President's Own Big
Band, and the end of the summerwill be the President's Own
again.
So in between we have a NavyBand, I think the Air Force Band
(22:26):
as well.
So there's a lot of thoseevents going on.
We had a car show last Sundaywhich was pretty well attended
over 80 entrants Wow, Hundredsof folks visited.
We currently have a 250th artshow that we just opened earlier
this month, and even if you'renot an art person, you will like
(22:46):
this show.
It is just eye-wateringly wellput together and it does two
things put together and it doestwo things.
There's one alcove that has19th century paintings that have
Marines in older uniforms, buton the outside and flowing
through it is 250 years ofMarine Corps history.
So starting with ContinentalMarines all the way up to
(23:10):
Special Operations Marinesoperating today.
So that is a really goodexhibit.
In September we're going toopen another exhibit and this
was an opportunity for thecurators to go through the
collection, pick out things thatwe normally wouldn't exhibit
but are really interesting, andso that's going to be on display
(23:30):
.
We've been really kind ofcelebrating the Marine Corps'
250th since 11 November lastyear.
Right.
And of course it will culminatethis year on 10 November, and so
we've decorated it in kind of a250th theme and people often
talk well, what are you doingfor the 250th?
(23:51):
It's like every day is a 250thin this building, but the art
show and this other collectionalso kind of are special as far
as that goes.
Larry Zilliox (24:00):
Well, listeners, again, it's usmcmuseumcom.
Check it out, plan a visit.
It's not far.
It's at the south end of thecounty for Prince William County
, down right along 95 and Route1.
There, you don't want to missit.
Take the family, take everybody.
(24:21):
Everybody's going to enjoy itand have a good time.
So, colonel, thank you so muchfor coming out and joining us.
This has been great.
Col. Keil Gentry (24:30):
Oh, thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, we appreciate it.
Is there one last thought?
You have to let our listenersknow about the place that you'd
like to share.
John Wall (24:38):
Please come visit.
It is truly an honor to be ableto tell the Marine Corps story
and I think that the way we'vedone it will engage you.
Something we didn't talk aboutearlier, but quick.
Mention is throughout themuseum.
We have different, what we callimmersive exhibits.
Mention is throughout themuseum.
We have different, what we callimmersive exhibits, and so some
(25:03):
of the must not miss ones arewe've got Marines attacking
across the wheat field inBelleau Wood and you feel like
you're there and there are a lotof good lessons learned there.
In the World War II gallery youcan see the actual flag that is
in Rosenthal's iconic photo Wow,we have that on display every
day.
And then on the anniversary ofthe Battle of Iwo Jima, we bring
out the first flag, so you cansee both of them.
In Korea you can feel the coldof Tak-Tong Pass, as Fox 27 held
(25:29):
the pass to allow the 1stMarine Division to fight their
way south out of the ChosinReservoir.
In Vietnam, you can experienceHill 881 South as part of the
Khe Sanh campaign, and in ourother forward deploy gallery you
can see how Marines live aboardship, and that's an interesting
experience.
And then in theAfghanistan-Iraq exhibit you can
(25:50):
see how Marines live in aforward operating base, but you
can also experience kind of whatit's like to fight in a village
or a town in Iraq.
Col. Keil Gentry (26:00):
Wow, Well, we appreciate that and we've got to
make sure you know, larry, thatwe keep doing this, keep
honoring our service members andthe history of them as well.
Larry Zilliox (26:09):
Yeah, it's an amazing experience Marine Corps
Museum experience, marine CorpsMuseum or we're going to do an
episode coming up with theAmericans in wartime museum.
That's brand new.
It used to be the old tank farmand we're excited about that.
So we're sort of doing thisseries here again.
Colonel, thank you so much forcoming out and joining us.
(26:30):
Oh, thank you.
So for our listeners, we'llhave another episode next Monday
morning.
So for our listeners, we'llhave another episode next Monday
morning.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America Radio.
So thanks for listening.
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