Diversity & Inclusion

Episode Transcript
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Rocci Doria (00:01):
Hey everybody, quick editor's note. Due to some
technical gremlins, the soundquality of this episode isn't
perfect, but it is so relevantand timely that we couldn't hold
it back. So, with apologies forthat, please enjoy this
interview with the great PawntraShadab.

Patrick Brochu (00:18):
I just want to sit in this room and, uh, wear
an all-green morph suit.

Pawntra Shadab (00:23):
You should and be a floating head?

I would just be a floating head.

Staceyann Van Horne-Doria (00:27):
Oh my god please make it stop.
Welcome to another episode ofWell Seasoned the Podcast. I am
Stacy.

And I'm Patrick.

One day, you'll get it. We have
another amazing guest with us.
I'm really excited for thispodcast and I'm so happy you
said yes. I am so happy you saidyes. We have Paw ntra Shadab,
CTA, CIS, VP of Events andMarketing for Elite Productions
International, also pastpresident of Orange County MPI
Chapter. So welcome. And thankyou for being with us.

Thank you for having me. Congratulations on
the podcast I'm super excited tobe here.

Thank you. Thank you. We met when the
world was open.

Yeah, it was IMEX right?

We were in Vegas, yeah. And um,
Patrick introduced us via ahappy hour that turned into a
dinner that was then the MPIRendezvous. We had so much fun.
Yeah, we had so much fun. And sowe invited Pawntra on because we
have an episode that is veryrelevant, very timely, and I

(01:43):
think it's on the forefront ofeveryone's minds. And it's about
inclusion and diversity inevents, right? And as we walk
through 2020, and life ingeneral, it's a topic that we're
all faced with and I want to saythat Patrick had some concerns.
Here I am getting called out.
Five seconds in. Five secondsin. All right, let's go.

(02:06):
No, but it's something that Iwant to address right at the
top. And I think Pawntra you dida really great job explaining
it. You had concerns. How didyou put it, Patrick?

I said, I'm very excited about this episode and I
think it's a very importantepisode. However, this might be
the episode where I'm thequietest because I'm not sure
how much input I will have forthis particular episode and
subject matter.

And Pawntra showed why I was so
excited having you on thisepisode, because then how did
you respond Pawntra?

I was just grateful for him that he
recognizes that this is animportant topic, and he respects
the issue. And diversity is allabout having everybody's voice.
So I think the fact that he ishere, and he can offer his
insight and be an ally to thecommunity is fantastic. So I
don't think he should hold back,I think it should be a open
dialogue between everybody.

Staceyann Van Horne-Dor (02:58):
Exactly and this is something we all
walk through in our daily lives.
Patrick, you are an ally, if ithasn't been said before, I'm
saying it now out loud, and yourvoice and your thoughts and how
you are contributing toincreasing diversity and
inclusion. I mean, you work fora company that is minority
owned, not a small company. It'shuge and do great things within

(03:20):
the community within Florida andalso within the events
community, not to mentioneverything else you do in your
daily life, it's reallyimportant. So Pawntra, I want to
just start off very basic, andnot so basic, because you're
Pawntra. Tell us a little bitabout your background, your
industry background.

So my mom -- shout out to Lily Shadab -- she
started Elite ProductionsInternational over 20 years ago.
So definitely a pioneer in theindustry, woman-owned business,
minority-owned business, totalboss, amazing, amazing
inspirational role model. And Igot to see what it took to be in
events behind the scenescreating collaborating the hard

(04:00):
hours, the long hours, all thecraziness and all the good all
in one. I in college wanted topursue being a producer in TV
and film didn't anticipate beingan events. But it was something
I was doing on this side. I washired by my campus to plan
events for my campus, I workedwith my friends and we produced
a lot of music events andconcerts and art shows and stuff

(04:20):
like that. And it was reallysomething that was really easy
for me. And I just really loveddoing it. And I had the
opportunity to do an officialinternship with my mom and
didn't look back after that. Andso I was able to start working
with her and kind of work my wayup through the years. And now
we're business partners, and wedesign and produce corporate
events, social events,entertainment industry... I love

(04:44):
it, I get to design I get toproduce and have fun, even
though we're in the virtualworld. I'm still getting to do
that. And that's exciting. Sojust learning something new.

When I started off in events, too, I
kind of started off along thepublic relations track.

Okay.

And like you, did the whole media
thing right? I worked for NBCfor a little bit doing Weekend
Today and doing all theentertainment segments there.
And then as I started doingthat, I realized, Oh, it's not
really the media, it's more ofthe planning that I like. And
that's how I kind of fell intoevents in general.

Totally yeah those large scale productions
are such a great experience, Ithink for me, because I got to
see what it took to put onsomething so large, like I've
been working on the Oscars andthe Grammys, and like the Gold--
you know all these major shows,and you really see how many
people it takes to plan such aproduction. And I think that
part is super cool. I get moreexcited about all of that behind
the scenes stuff and innerworkings than the celebrities

(05:36):
that are walking the red carpet.

It's so true. I always say my
favorite part of events is thefact that the success of one
event doesn't lie on one person,it takes an entire village to
bring it together, whether it'srental company, or the event
planner, or the floral or theservers, it takes everybody to
come together for the success ofan event. And the community of

(05:57):
working together is one of thegreatest things, even in
planning in the corporate world.
You know, sometimes departmentsor silos with events, you have
to communicate with finance, youhave communicate with sales and
marketing, you might communicatewith the doctor, whoever...
that's my favorite part of doingevents. So, you're talking about
almost 20 years of experience.

(06:18):
So you've seen a lot of changeswithin the industry. What do you
think were some obstacles thatyou faced early on, especially
being a minority woman ownedbusiness.

I think just that. Those are two major ones.
Something that is personal to meis I think being the daughter of
a... of somebody, I've alwaysfelt like I had to work harder,
because I didn't want it to looklike something was handed to me.
But in our local area inSouthern California, in Orange
County, it's not that diverse,especially 15 years ago. So I

(06:50):
think being in thoseenvironments, where we stood out
a little bit more than thenormal it was mostly Caucasian
and male dominated with some ofthe clients that we have. So it
was very different. But at thesame token, it's all I've ever
known. So I've just kind oflearned to have that that's my
reality. You know, like, I don'tknow anything else. And that's,
I just kind of work with it.

This past weekend, I was actually speaking
to FAU, Florida AtlanticUniversity's meeting planning
class from their School ofHospitality and Tourism. My good
friend Marianne Schmidhofer isthe professor. And in that
class, she said, this was thefirst year it's an all female
class. And I was saying to herthat this year on the MPI board

(07:31):
that I still sit on as theimmediate past president, I am
the only male on the board. Whenyou look around at some boards
that aren't very mixed or maledominated. It feels like in our
industry, there's so many morefemales. So it's starting to
reflect that a little bit more.
But I totally understand whatyou guys are saying and I won't
name them, but differentsegments of our industry where
you're absolutely right. It'smaybe majority female, but then

(07:52):
it's mostly Caucasian malesdominating upper management Just
literally as you guys weretalking about, it just popped in
my head. Thinking about thatconversation with with Marianne
last week. This week. Gosh, Idon't even know what time of the
day-

It all runs together-

It's all coming together yeah.

Yeah, right?

I was thinking about the time when I
was doing site visits in RhodeIsland for an event. And, uh I
went to do the site visit and Ibrought my mother along, because
they have really nice winecountry. So I kind of took her
wine tasting with me. So wewould go places, I kind of just
leave her, let her do her thingand come back and get her. At
the time I was a manager withsigning authority, basically, if

(08:34):
I like the location, I couldsign a contract on the spot. And
so I'm doing the site visit andI'm kind of asking questions,
and he's rushing me through andhe wouldn't give me the time of
day. So I get in the car, andI'm driving back with my mom.
And she's like, that was reallyquick. And I was like, Yeah, he
just would not talk to me. I'mlike, I'm pretty sure that he
just did not respect me as ablack woman, probably thought I

(08:55):
was lower than who I was. And hecalled me while I was in the
car. And he's like, oh, Stacey,I just looked you up on
LinkedIn. You went to GeorgeWashington, University for your
masters? And I'm like, Yes. Hegoes, That's pretty impressive
for a Black woman from theBronx. And I was like, Did, did
you just say that out loud? Likewhat is happening right now? And
he goes Yeah, I looked you up, Ijust thought you were a

(09:15):
secretary. If you want to comeback in, I could actually show
you the space. And I'm thinkingto myself, You acknowledge fully
that you just wouldn't evenrespect me based on the color of
my skin. And then on top of thatsaid, Well, now that I know you
can bring me money, I said, Ineed you to know that you will
never get business with thiscompany again. And wherever I

(09:38):
go, you have just locked out --and I'm talking about I was
bringing maybe a million dollarsof revenue to this hotel, like
REVENUE. And my mom goes, do youface this a lot? And I said,
Yeah, I do actually, you know,especially when I have managers
that report to me, and they'rewhite. There's times when they
won't even look at me like sitevisits I'll say You have to send

(10:00):
me the contract and insteadtheir response is Well I'll give
it to her and she could send itto you she wants.

Some people are just not educated enough. So I
think they react withoutrealizing where they're coming
from not to make it okay, butI'm trying to be open minded
about all this. Some peoplethink I'm a terrorist, because
my family is Middle Eastern,they just associate things and
they don't think about it andit's just not an educated
response. And so it's sad thatit has to get that way. I do
think people have gotten better,to Patrick's point. It's evolved

(10:27):
so much in our industry over theyears. But I do think there's
still a lot more to go.

I think in the segment of what you're talking
about Stacey, especially thatparticular example, or those
micro aggressions that peopleput out there. Oh, you're pretty
for insert a color here,whatever. That's a
microaggression. Same thing. Oh,I didn't realize now I'll give

Even if you weren't a secretary, you're
you the time of day because youwere educated. That's a
microaggression. That's crazy.
Why does that matter? And why isthat the determinating factor in
having you for a site visit orespecially you're in a busine
s role.
bringing business to them.

Exactly.

So I feel like no matter what, you have to have
respect for everybody, itdoesn't matter.

I can't tell you how many people with the job
title Personal Assistant end upwith massive budget events that
they're bringing into us. Itdoesn't matter, you should treat
everybody the same. Andactually, outside of our
industry, one of the high endcar companies, I don't know
which one, neither one of themare sponsors, so I'm regretting
saying their names, maybethey'll be sponsors one day, but
Lamborghini and Ferrari, it'sone of the two of them, no

(11:34):
matter who walks into theirshowroom, they have a policy
that they treat everybodyexactly the same. And I think
that's the way they should,because you never know.

You face that in so many different
ways. Even dealing with AV --I'm sorry, Patrick, kind of
putting you on the spot -- butit's so uncommon to see AV, IT,
like a woman in that role, thatpeople automatically assume that
they don't know what they'retalking about. You can ask for
specific lighting, or you canask for something else and it's

(12:04):
almost like immediately, theywant to talk down to you because
you don't know what you'retalking about. It doesn't really
matter what part of the industryyou're in. These are things that
we need to recognize.

I absolutely see that in the audio visual
industry. Here at my particularcompany, we have four females,
that's a pretty good percentagewhen you're looking at a company
of 20 to 25. So with that, whenwe're on show sites, and we're
out with a project manager likeGabby, who I work with, or
Jennifer, really talentedproject managers, I see the way

(12:35):
sometimes that there are crewmembers that are paying them
attention for the wrong reasons,but not giving them the same
respect that they should as atrue project manager. It's
frustrating to me, and just thisweek, Stacey and I we're
actually working on a productiontogether and one of our managers
on this one is Gabby and she'sreally has a total handle on
everything in our industry. AndI try to treat everybody the

(12:57):
same. But sometimes I findmyself trying to go out of my
way to encourage them, because Iwant them to understand that
they're as respected and a partof the team as anybody else.

Staceyann Van Horne-Dori (13:09):
That's what being an ally is, it's
those things for sure. Let'stalk about what it looks like in
the event setting. The panels,the audience, the agenda, the
food, the beverage, there'stimes when you're sitting in a
room, and it's general session,and just the topic alone, you
just know that there wasn'tsomeone at that table to say,

(13:30):
hey, that's wrong. Don't saythat. It's offensive, you know,
kind of talk about what we cando to combat that.

It starts with the core team. If you have a
diverse planning team, they canall share their voice so that
you can help avoid a lot ofthose things. In some scenarios
where you don't have thatopportunity to have that diverse
team, I recommend working withorganizations or with
individuals that can come in asa consultant. So you can share

(14:00):
with them what the program isand then they can offer insight
on where you can make changes,because there's so many things
that can be done, like youmentioned, having a wide variety
of speakers having a diversifiedmenu. But there's also the
accessibility. Do you havepeople that are in wheelchairs?
Are you accommodating them? Doyou have people that have
hearing issues or visuallyimpaired or even people's

(14:22):
pronouns, we want to make surethat their badge is
representative of who theyidentify with versus limiting it
to just a couple things. So Ithink there's just so much that
you can do which is greatbecause it allows you to really
encompass these tools within somany different aspects of the
program. But it's a learningprocess. You have to see what is
going to work and what's goingto be appropriate for your

(14:42):
company and your event. And it'snice that there are a lot of
certificates coming out latelyfor diversity and inclusion and
different ways that you canimplement into your program.
There's so many different wayslike I just mentioned, I'm
trying to think specificexamples but...

We're at a time right now too where
before where you voice might notbe heard, I think that companies
are actually taking a step back.
So it's kind of like we have toride the wave right now. And a
great example is one company Iworked at, we were putting
together a booth, and they gaveme the graphics for the entire
booth. And there was not asingle person of color. And I

(15:18):
said, not only do people ofcolor working in the booth,
we're also selling tocommunities. globally. If it
doesn't represent who I am, whywould I come here? And it was
one of those things that waskind of poo pooed out. And that
was it. Well, come back thefeedback that was something they
got over and over again, wasthat it this booth did not

(15:39):
represent who I am. And therewere times I was standing there
a customer would say, How do youfeel working for this company?
Well, now you put me in aposition. Thankfully, that was a
moment for them to learn. And avery white male-driven company
completely turned to actuallyvery minority woman driven now.

(16:00):
And you can see it immediatelyin the visuals, the marketing.

Marketing is key, because that's what's going
to attract to the attendees.
That's like the first touchpoint. And if you can't identify
that and make people feelcomfortable enough to want to
register for the event and wantto be a part of it, then you
kept them out.

Even on panels and agendas it's
something that I think aboutconstantly. It doesn't matter if
it's nonprofit, or profit. A lotof times people will look for
speakers within their industryto represent them. And it's not
very diverse. Or you end up withsomeone on stage who doesn't
represent your values. Takingthe time before to say, Hey,

(16:45):
we're going to meet with youwhether it's 30 minutes or an
hour. And I need you to walk methrough what you're going to be
saying,

Because as a

Yeah, again, a lot of times it's like,
oh, they're donating their time.
So that's perfect. No, no, it'sreally not. We still need to vet
them the same way we wouldsomeone who's paying. I am
grateful that you're donatingyour time, and let's be real, a
lot of times someone's donatingtheir time, they're still
getting something in return, itmight not be a check, but
there's something in returnthat's happening. So we do need

(17:13):
to do our part with that aswell.

Pawntra earlier, you were mentioning the pronouns
and my wife who's a high schoolteacher who started out the year
teaching virtually was pointingout to me that many of her
students in it, it kind ofcaught on and became more and
more popular, but, at her schoolwere putting their pronouns next
to their name. It would be he,him, his would show up after

(17:38):
their names. And she wassurprised how many people did
use different pronouns than shewould have known because she
didn't know many of these kids,they were ninth graders, she
teaches high school coming in,so she didn't know them. So she
was able to understand that overI think, and I think that the
important lesson is here, howmuch more accepting even the
next generation behind us isbecoming. And I've actually

(18:00):
heard of a few differentcompanies that are doing virtual
events that also, no matterwhat, they're asking for their
pronouns to be on their lowerthird or their name graphic. So
that's something that is veryinteresting to me. But in that,
the greater thought, and I'mrambling, that I was wanting to
get to is the different types ofdiversity that we should be

(18:21):
looking at. Because obviously,we started off this
conversation, we were talkingabout gender, we've talked about
race, we've talked about sexualidentity. What other types of
diversity are there that we'renot thinking about?

Yeah, I think Pawntra even touched
upon it, you know,accessibility, disabilities.
Even I work with somebody who isa veteran who was in Afghanistan
for 12 years, I believe. He'ssomeone who cannot deal with
large groups. He can sit in ameeting, if it's a silent
meeting, and we're all sittingthere and we're talking, that's

(18:58):
fine. But when we get to thehappy hours, when we get to the
dinners, when we get to thosesocial functions, he can't
process that. It's a disability,it's his PTSD that we have to
accommodate. Now, that'ssomething that working with the
military and working with vets,I'm very conscious of that as
well. When I do events.

I think the best and easiest way to describe it
as diversity is how you identifyyourself. You can be a variety
of different things and there'sno limit to how you can identify
yourself. But the inclusion iswhere you are able to accept and
respect all of those identitiesand all of those different
diverse people.

Staceyann Van Horne-D (19:34):
Diversity is never ending.

Right.

I don't want people to listen to
this and say, Well, how am Igoing to cater to every single
thing that comes my way? It'sexactly what you just said, it's
the inclusion part. So nowyou've learned about this
person's wants and needs. How doyou respect that throughout the
event? I've done events where Icatered to everyone and there's
one person who feels left out,maybe I didn't know about it

(19:57):
prior to the event. Maybe itjust wasn't received respected
in the planning of the event,but now that they vocalized it,
it is my job to make sure thatthey know that they will be
catered to as part of the group.
And it could be something assimple as kosher meals. And just
making sure that it's not justhere, some chicken and rice and
that's what it is. Make surethat they feel catered to. If
everyone's getting appetizers,they have one too. Or I had one

(20:19):
person that's like, Listen, I'msuper simple. I just want cereal
and milk. It was so funny,because he's like, I'm out of
the house, I can now have FruitLoops, and I want Fruit Loops.
That's all I want. And I went tothe supermarket and I got him
Froot Loops and milk and it wasgreat and it was hilarious cuz
the next day his wife showed upand he's sitting there with
Froot Loops, spoon to mouth,dead stare at the wife like, Oh

(20:40):
no, how did you get here? But hewas so happy with that, you
know, that was how he feltincluded. We're in hospitality,
we cater to people. And thatdoesn't mean you're catering on
the same level across the way...
it's individuals.

And I think that's the beautiful thing is
we're also different, and we allbring something different to the
table. And that's where having adiverse planning team, or
working with someone that couldreally work together to really
produce the most ideal event. Toyour point, Stacey, you were
speaking earlier about themarketing. That's the first
touch point, if you can createsomething that is welcoming

(21:19):
enough for people to go past themarketing and get to the website
where you register for the eventand get someone to start doing
the registration process, Ithink the registration process
is really where the planner cansee the type of people that will
be attending. So from there, youcan make the decisions on who to
accommodate it and how, youknow, so instead of having just

(21:41):
a Mr. and Mrs., let's list allthe available pronouns. Let
people pick what they identifywith. We already do the dietary
we do all of that, but what aresome other areas that we can add
within the registration thatwill give us data as planners so
that when we are producing theevent, we have to make sure that
Well, okay, there's two peoplethat are in wheelchairs, I want

(22:01):
to make sure that theregistration desks are lower so
they're able to still interactwith people. Or that there's
seating available for them,maybe someone is larger, and
they don't fit in certain seats,or there's so many different
things. But if you make peoplefeel comfortable enough to
express that from the beginning,then it's easy for us to be able
to execute those requests.

Right.
And I can hear the corporate orthe financial side of it, We
can't afford to do that. Youcan't afford to not cater to
your customers. You can't affordto not have them feel like
they're included in part of theevent. Because you know, what,
if you won't include themsomebody else will.

Exactly.

Staceyann Van Horne-Dor (22:37):
There's a lot of it that goes down to
just basic human decency.

Yes, it really is.

A lot of it does not need to be
taught, it really doesn't. Andjust as important as a pre
registration is to post surveyto, I can't tell you the amount
of surveys that go out and youjust know they don't read what
comes in. Or you just know thatthey only cherrypick the great
quotes because they want to putit on the marketing for next
year. Read those surveys, takeeverything in and apply it to

(23:06):
the next event that you're doingand not just the next event of
that same one, but the nextevents that you're doing like
oh, that's something I didn'teven think about wheelchairs or
ramps or accessibility. The sameway we do site visits and we go
I want to see what the loadingdock is because you want to know
about the behind-the-scenes, weshould be doing that or our

(23:27):
guests whether it's asking aboutwhat are your ADA modifications
-- I'm missing words -- to your,your property or what can we do
to accommodate XY&Z

Or closed captioning having trans
interpreters

It goes on right?

It does. But I think being able to vet that
from the beginning will help theplanner from feeling overwhelmed
with having to do so much whoyou're just focused on the
people that are in attendance.

Speaking of closed captioning, our amazing
sound editor --

Amazing.

-- and director, Rocci Doria, is now transcribing
every episode of Well Seasonedthe Podcast so that we have it
available. We don't even knowthat we have anybody per se. But
if we do we have it available.
So like you're saying, we'rejust ready just in case and in a
live broadcast event that Staceyand I were working on, on that

(24:16):
one, we also had live closedcaptioning ready to go just in
case. It's a button. For acorporation, it was, to Stacey's
point, it wasn't an overlyexpensive thing to add on. But
there was a cost to it. But youcan't afford not to do it.

I know we talk a lot about the
attendee standpoint, but withinthe planning too -- actually
this is just life -- I make it apoint that every week I find a
Black business to support that'ssomething that I do. It's near
and dear to me obviously so itcould be anything. If y'all
didn't know I love to cookalready. I found this one group
that does grits and I'm like, Ohmy gosh, I have to get their

(24:54):
grits or tea or whatever it is.
And I tried to support blackbusinesses every week. Or just
POC businesses every week.
That's my thing. And that'ssomething in my house, I even
tell my husband that I'm like,it's my initiative, but my
husband's white, and I'm like, Iwant you to do the same thing I
want you to step out. And a lotof times you hear, but that's so

(25:15):
hard, I don't know how to do it.
The same way I'm doing myresearch is the same way you
need to do your research. Sokind of going back to where we
started with being the only oneat the table, a lot of times,
you'll hear there aren't a lotof minority businesses out there
that do what I need to do. Idon't want to mention the large
event planners or the largerental companies or large
whatever, but they'll say Ican't find someone to include in

(25:38):
doing this. I can't find a Blackrental company, I can't find
this. I think it's reallyimportant that diversity
inclusion is not just theoutwardly stuff. But it's the
things behind the scenes thatgoes towards that. We should be
looking for different companiesand organizations to support. I
always say I didn't get to whereI was, without the help of

(26:00):
someone bring me here. And notto say that minority
organizations need the help. Butwe should be supporting.

And speaking about supporting in too many
large companies, you don't haveenough people at the top, just
women in general, and in lesscases, to find a woman of color.
Totally unrelated, Stacey, youwere just telling me earlier
this week about sometimes whenyou're seeing that wanting to
prop that person up.

Staceyann Van Horne- (26:29):
Especially when you're working within a
company that might be whitemale-driven. And then you see a
Black person or person of colorcome in. And they're not just --
just because I consider myselfone of the just minions, right
-- but they are someone of powerand or stature within the
company, immediately you rallyto support. It's sad that you

(26:52):
almost feel like we have toprove that we're here. We have
to prove how great we are. Andso whatever I do, I'll make sure
you look good. I'm gonna makesure I prop you up. And it's
really important to me, and Ikeep saying I want it to be very
clear that that's how I operate,right? I'm not trying to force
my views or any anything or myactions on the next person. But

(27:14):
it's really important to me thatyou lift one teach one, you
support one. And you know, as weall grow, we grow together and
we advance together. How manytimes do we say, oh, who's their
connection? How did they gethere? Well, now that you have
your person, quote, unquote,someone who looks like you on
the inside, it's almost asthough they have to work even

(27:39):
harder to prove that I didn'tget here because of X, Y, and Z.
I have the knowledge I have theeducation, I have the skills to
be in this role.
You're talking on mute, butthat's cool.

2020 huh?

2020, talking on mute. Stacey, you're not a
minion to me. And you're notjust a minion to your team,
because I know your team. And Iknow how your team talks about
you. So I know that that's yourthing. But you're not a minion.

No way.

I do think minions are cute.

You're important to me, and you're important to
them. And you're important toall of us. And I think that's
important for all of us to knowis our self value and our worth
and the thing that we bring tothe table, having a diverse
workforce and a diverseindustry. Everybody brings
something to the table. And it'ssomething that's different.

That's what's amazing. I knew I mostly spoke
of being in environments whereit's mostly Caucasian, but I
also volunteered with the UrbanLeague, and it was a group of
young professionals. Everyonewas Black, I was the only one
that wasn't. But everyone was sowelcoming and I learned so much
from everybody. And, you know,it's all about the collaboration
process, right? We're all at theend of the day here to produce

(28:48):
this event or you know, have afinal outcome. And why not bring
a diverse group of people heretogether to help execute make it
happen? And I think it canhappen better when there's more
point of view.

More point of view, yeah.

More perspectives.

Not only is it better when there's
more perspectives, opinions,point of views at the table,
listening to understand and notlistening to respond. I think
that's something that was saidby another guest to on our
podcast. So many times you sitthere and you're talking, you
just know somebody isformulating an answer. And
that's it. You haven't actuallyheard what I said. I think

(29:23):
that's really important. As wemove forward in our day to day
lives.

When you're a better listener, you're going to
be a better salesperson, if youlisten to your clients, if
you're a better listener withyour spouse, maybe you'll better
understand what they're goingthrough and be there for them.
So being a listener, with thethings that other people are
going through that are differentfrom what you're going through,

(29:48):
things that I might not haveeven thought about, you brought
up earlier Pawntra, the exampleof weight. So if you're planning
an event and so many ghostchairs, etc. Well, what about it
somebody is uncomfortablesitting in that chair because
they don't want the chair tobreak, etc. Those are the types
of things that we have to listenfor. And we have to understand.

Definitely. It's a lot of listening, continuing
to educate ourselves and beingnot afraid to ask questions.
We're all learning. It's notlike you're gonna learn it all
now. And it's going to be done.
As things evolve within ourindustry and society, there's
more to learn. I actuallyvolunteer on the diversity and
inclusion committee for MPIGlobal. And this past year, we
created a resource page. There'sideas on speakers, on even

(30:31):
simple things like watch thismovie, you'll have a better
understanding. Listen to thispodcast a little bit, just a
resource for you to really get abetter understanding of how this
all works. And we've included inso many different mediums, so
it's easier to understand fordifferent people. And, you know,
even for myself, I'm passionateabout this topic, but I'm
continually trying to educatemyself so I could be a better

(30:51):
person and better individualwith all this. So I think people
shouldn't be afraid to askquestions and listen and educate
themselves.

Yeah, you're a student in life. And
that's in every part of life.
Just 10 years ago, we weren'ttalking about he, she, they
pronouns, we weren't talkingabout male, female, transgender,
there's just so much that wewere not talking about that we
are right now. If you even lookat the process when you're
filling out forms, right? Justthe questions that are being

(31:21):
asked that weren't asked before.
It's okay to mis-step. As longas you know that when you're
corrected, and you're told whatis right, you are receptive to
that information, and you learnfrom it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Staceyann Van Horne-Do (31:35):
Anything else, Patrick?

We're pretty much out of time. I think down
the road, we're gonna have tohave you back Pawntra, and speak
a little bit more, because thisis truly one of the very
important subjects not just forour industry, but for business
and life and everything. We arebecoming a more and more diverse
world, a more connected world.
And so that diversity is moreand more prevalent and important

(31:58):
moving forward. And I think ifdone the right way, it's just
only something that will enrichour communities.

Well said.

So we always wrap asking our guests,
what's the one piece they wantto leave the world with? It
doesn't have to be deep. Youdon't have to give us some deep
quote.

It could be Hey, I'm having a good hair day
because, uh, nobody can see thispodcast but I mean, your hair is
on, well your hair is always onpoint. But your hair is on
point. I mean, it could be assimple as that. What's the one
nugget that you want to leave uswith?

It's fine. It's gonna sound so cheesy, but I 'm,
you know what, I'm just gonnasay it. But honestly, I feel
like for me, I just want toleave people with like that
positivity and warmth. I want togive love and respect to
everybody. And I feel like if Ican leave, knowing that everyone
that I've interacted with, I'vedone that, I feel like I've left
a positive mark. So that I knowit's cheesy, but, that's it.

It's heartfelt. I love it.

It's heartfelt and it's totally you, for those
people that no Pawntra. It istotally you.

Alright, Patrick, we're gonna shake some
on it. Paprika.

Paprika.

Paprika.

Paprika.

Paprika.
And this time, I'm gonna let yougo first. And let me tell you
why.

Why Stacey?

No, because you always play me like,
this has to be the lightheartedsection, I tell some stupid
like, [...]. And then he comesin with the, So I just want to
tell you that I can't reallytake it anymore. And I just sat
in my room and cried for thelast 24 hours. I just talk about
my dog running away from me. Youalways ruin me. So I'm gonna let
you go first.

All right, I'll start I'll start. I was actually
thinking about this, when wewere going through the rest of
this podcast and one thing thatI find very interesting. My wife
and I, we love to travel and ourfavorite thing is not
necessarily to go to a resort,or something like that, or very
adventurous. So we like to justkind of go off the map. One
year, I surprised her and wewent to Trinidad. I gave it to

(33:50):
her for Christmas. And we went afew months later, we flew in,
rented a car went up had anAirbnb, just on the top of the
mountain, literally the highestpoint in Trinidad that we could
be at and it was beautiful. Wellwhen we were there, it just
happened to be Arrival Day. InTrinidad, they celebrate their
diversity by having Arrival Day.
In Trinidad they have the AsianIndians, so people from India,

(34:12):
and then they have the slavesthat came over from Africa. So
their culture is very mixedbetween these two groups and the
Indians from Asia that came overthey were brought over by the
Europeans of slaves. And thenlater, I believe it was the
French that brought the Africansover. And Arrival Day is when
the the Africans were broughtover as slaves. So they

(34:33):
celebrate not in the dimness ofslavery, but that it enriched
the culture of the island whenthat group of people came, and
it is a huge celebration ofeverything that makes them great
with that diversity. And I wasthinking to myself, that is a
really positive spin on whatcould be or what is a very
tragic time in the history ofthe world.

That was nice. I like that.

And so I was thinking about my trip to
Trinidad and that I want to goback and get some roti and some
doubles.

I was about to ask you if you had
doubles.

That's how I got there.

Oh wait, do you have bacon, pork
and everything?

And some again some shark and bake? Yeah,
absolutely.

Oh man. I want it now.

Absolutely. So that's my paprika is I was
thinking about Trinidad and alsohow great it is that they
celebrate their diversity.

I like it.

Let's have Pawntra go.

Okay, Pawntra.

Pawntra, why don't you give us what's on your
mind, a little bit of paprika.
It can be anything.

You know what?
You speaking of travel and beingable to speak with both of you,
I am very much looking forwardto going to WEC. I think with
our industry, we've been socontained used to like traveling
for events or for conferences sooften. And to have like the last
few months be at a standstill,I'm very much looking forward to
seeing industry peers, and justbeing in the same space,

(35:50):
obviously keeping it very safeand being very mindful of what's
going on, but just that inperson connection, I miss that a
lot, especially with people fromour industry. So I'm very much
looking forward to that. I thinkI haven't booked a flight and so
long, it was so exciting to booka flight.

Oh my gosh. Traveling here. Yeah
traveling, I'm in Florida, youguys, with Patrick, we are
recording in the same building,but in two different rooms right
now. So we're here, but I hearbut Yeah, I agree traveling,
booking this flight coming over.
I was kind of like nervous aboutit. And I fly Delta so they were
still distancing on the plane.

(36:28):
So that made it so much morecomfortable. But yeah, I'm
excited to go there and see howthey do it and see what we can
learn. And it should be good.

Yeah. As ever, students of the industry, that's
what we talked about. Stacey andI, we both were, Hey, do we want
to go, because we want to besafe? And the two of us we came
to this point for our industry,we wanted to see it from a
learning experience. How didthey do it? The good, the bad,
the ugly, because they're goingto be our experimental guinea
pig here in our industry. Sowhat did they do? Right, wrong,
indifferent, so we can all cantake and learn from it. But

(36:57):
yeah, I agree with you. Wecannot wait. We cannot wait.

Why paprika, I guess if you go with
the whole diversity thing is theorigin of my name. So my name is
Van Horne, my maiden name. Andit's a Dutch name. And for the
longest I was told, you know,it's your grandfather's name.
And he came over and was workingon Panama Canal. And he landed
in Jamaica, and that's how youhave Van Horne. Then one day, I
decided to do the ancestry test.

Oh cool.

And I looked, and I did the whole
test. And I was like you guys,do you know that our name is a
slave name? It's not actually...
I showed it to them and they'relike, Oh, I guess it's just
something we were told thatmakes sense, though. And it was
just kind of like this thingthat they they just acknowledged
and kind of just went with it.
I'm like, you guys for years. Wewere told like, oh, we're Dutch,
Jamaican and blah, blah. Andit's like, No, you, your name is

(37:44):
actually the slaves name is aslave name. I don't know, maybe
then it was just so part of ourfamily history. It was said so
many times that after a whilelost meaning that when I said
that, it was just kind of like,Yeah, that makes sense. What do
you want for dinner? And I'mjust gonna like, what what you
guys like, my whole identity ismessed up, right now. It's, of

(38:06):
course, my name is just Iremember one time I signed up
for um, you know, when you hadan advisor in college to go get
your pick your classes and doall that?

Yeah, yeah.

So I worked for the Communication
Department. My name is StaceyannVan Horne. I worked there for
months and months. And I sign upon paper, and I get a call from
my advisor who's also in theCommunication Department and
he's like, Oh, I'm running late.
I won't be there for another 20minutes. I'm like, Okay, sure.
I'm here. Anyway, he goes, seeme do anything. And I'm like,
No, I'm working. So I get there.

(38:37):
You know, I'm working. He comesin and he calls me to say he's
there and girl. And guy.
Literally. My office is acrossthe hall from his and he calls
me and I kind of just like, leanover and look out the door and
he looks at me and I look at himand I'm like, Why are you
calling me and he goes, I wasexpecting this little blonde
white girl to come in. I didn'tknow you were Staceyann Van
Horne. And I'm just kind oflike, Wow, I've been here and

(38:59):
you had no idea what my name islike. And now married name
Doria, forget it. Like it's whenI walk into places when I tell
you people's faces. There'stimes when they're like
Staceyann? I'm like hey, I'mStacey. And they look at me and
they correct me, Staceyann I'mlike, still the same one
standing here waiting for you totalk to me.

Staceyann.
Staceyann Van Horne-Doria. CMP.

Why Patrick?

That's spicier than paprika. That's a good
story.

See, that's what happens when you go
second.

So right before we totally wrap up for the day,
one extra little thing. Pleaseeverybody continue to email in
atwellseasonededucation@gmail.com
once again, it'swellseasonededucation@gmail.com.
We will put that in the notesfrom today's podcast. We have

(40:00):
been getting feedback from youguys. Nobody actually is asking
a question or giving ussomething to talk about. You
guys are just saying that youlove the show. Fallon Hector
actually said, Hey, I love thepodcast, but I would like it to
be a little bit longer andtoday's episode, unintentionally
was longer.

Oh, okay okay!

So there you go.
Yeah, your wish is our command.
Thank you guys so much forcommunicating with us. Keep it
up. You know, we would love tohear questions or feedback or if
there's some crazy topic thatyou want us to talk about, we're
happy to talk about it as longas it doesn't get us fired from
our day jobs and we're good togo. That's all our time for
today. Thank you guys very muchfor tuning in. As always.

Thank you Pawntra for coming on our
little podcast.

Alright. Thank you.

Speak to you soon.

Bye.

All right. Bye.

And I'm Patrick.

And I'm Stacey thinking about my
name like Patrick always does.

Ayayay. And that's another episode of Well
Seasoned the Podcast. Until nexttime,

Peace out Cub Scouts.

Later.

Season your food. Wash your chicken.
Episode produced by PatrickBrochu and Staceyann Van
Horne-Doria. Sound editing byRocci Doria and song by Dr.
Delight.

(41:22):
I gotta send out meetingrequests. Oh I gotta pee first.
Bye. Put that in the Dropboxright now. Thanks. Bye. You have
to actually stop it though, cuz,you know, you do. Oh my god.

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