Beyond the Buzz - Alcohol: Friend or Foe? - Wellness Musketeers

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (00:02):
I had a guy who was 350 pounds, who was at
a party maybe four blocks fromthe hospital.
They'd obviously been drinking.
The guy challenged him to jumpout of the window from the
three-story building and overthe wrought iron fence onto the
curb and he bet him $10 that hecould do this.

(00:25):
So the guy jumped.
He's 350 pounds, his legs gotover that wrought iron fence.
His body didn't.
His body landed and went rightthrough the wrought iron fence.
So they had to cut the wroughtiron fence to bring him in
because it was still an impiledperson.

(00:47):
The big dude.
He wasn't feeling anything.
He was like I'm ready to go,Let me go, but he was drunk as a
skunk.

"Aussie" Mike James (00:58):
Hello and welcome to Wellness Muffeteers.
I'm Ozie Mike James Today we'rediving into one of the most
debated topics in health andwellness alcohol.
Alcohol is a substance that'sdeeply embedded in our cultures,
celebrated for its socialbenefits but also associated
with significant risks, bothhealth and societal costs.

(01:19):
Joining me are my co-hosts, ourmedical expert, dr Richard
Kennedy, our economist, kettleHiding and David Litt, a
personal trainer and wellnessprofessional.
Together, we'll explorealcohol's health impacts,
societal implications, economicconsequences and its role in
fitness and wellness.
To get the ball rolling, guys,as we can see, there's a bit of

(01:40):
background there.
Alcohol touches every aspect oflife, from health to economics
to to wellness.
Let's start by discussing whythis topic's important for each
of us, and let's get you on theball here, dr K.
What are the most important?
considerations about alcoholthat everybody needs to
understand.

Probably the most important point is that
alcohol in moderation is okay,and in the United States
defining alcohol in moderationis for women, one drink per day,
no more than seven drinks in aweek is okay.
For men, two drinks per day andno more than 14 in a seven-day

(02:22):
period is what we would considermoderate intake.
Now the problem with alcoholconsumption and its relationship
to health risk because you hearabout how certain amounts of
alcohol have been known todecrease the risk of

(02:43):
cardiovascular disease todecrease the risk of
cardiovascular disease.
And we talk about that withrespect to wine in particular,
because spirits and beer doesn'tnecessarily improve the risk or
reduce risk.
Now, you can pretty much takealmost any cancer that you want

(03:03):
to talk about, but particularlybreast, head and neck cancer,
liver cancer, pancreatic cancerAll of those have been
associated with increased riskof cancer when you increase your
alcohol consumption.
So probably the most importantthing is moderation is the key.

(03:23):
Now, that being said, most ofthe studies in the United States
have all been observation, sothese are not studies that have
been retrospective placebocontrol.
So these are more observationsthat you take a person who has a
particular disease and in thequestioning of their health you

(03:43):
ask about alcohol intake andthen you get a connection
between large numbers of peoplewho do excessive consumption and
have an association with thesecertain conditions, and that's
why we look at it.
And again, it's when people dothings in excess and pretty much
with almost anything it hastrouble to get us into trouble,

(04:06):
and so alcohol and moderation isthe key.
Now, what's considered anadequate drink?
So for beer, in the UnitedStates, 12 fluid ounces is
considered a normal glass ofbeer, or 355 milliliters wine.
Five fluid ounces, that's fivefluid ounces.

(04:27):
We demonstrated by ourcolleague Kendall Seem to be
four fluid ounces 448milliliters Distilled spirits.
That at least 80 proof Whiskey,scotch brett, things like that.

(04:48):
Bourbon, one and a half fluidounces or 44 milliliters is what
is considered a standard,typical drink.
Now, one of the other caveatsthat I always say that a person
who drinks alcohol on an emptystomach has a greater chance of
having more of the untowardeffects of the alcohol versus

(05:09):
the person who drinks with ameal or with food, because,
again, alcohol is broken down inthe liver and there's a
chemical.
And the reason women can takeless, need to take less drinks
is because they have one, theirsmaller frame, and thereby most
of the time have a smallermuscle mass.

(05:31):
But they also have less of theenzyme that is responsible for
breaking down alcohol in a bodycalled lactic dehydrogenase or
DIC.

Okay, that's good, let's get into it.
Later on, Dr K, We'll talkabout the specific impact
alcohol has on major organs, butlet's turn to kettle right now.
Major organs of the body I'mtalking about there.
Let's turn to kettle.
From an economic perspective,kettle what are the biggest
challenges alcohol poses tosociety?

Ketil Hviding (05:59):
So it's true.
I mean there are quite a lot ofestimates about the cost to
society and they are quite high.
I think I've seen someestimates about 2.5% of GDP.
It probably doesn't mean a lotto most people.
It's the cost to society,mostly the fact that actually

(06:19):
people drink too much and theydrink and they drive, for
instance.
All of that is important costthere's also important cost in,
actually, when people drink somuch that they cannot work and
they need to be rehabilitatedand things like that.
So that's the economic aspect,or economic, societal aspect.

(06:43):
All societies as we know, thesocieties we live in, alcohol is
a part of these societies.
We cannot I cannot remember theprohibition I don't think
anyone here can but there was anattempt of trying to get rid of
it because it's a reaction ofcompletely.
There was getting out ofcontrol.

(07:04):
But every society is in in someway or another that we know are
trying to struggle withimposing some moderate behavior
when it comes to alcohol and Ithink that's something we can
discuss as well and has to dowith it can be quite addictive.
So if one drink easily leads toa second drink and a third drink

(07:25):
, it doesn't have a very clearkind of oh, this is enough.
Like when you eat food at leastnormal food.

Okay, in terms of alcohol in
conversations about fitness andpersonal wellness.
One of the key factors here isalcohol is quite calorific.
One 12-ounce bottle of Heinekenbecause it's one of my favorite
in bikes is 140 calories perbottle.

Dave Liss (07:51):
You take five or six of those a night.

That's a significant calorie consumption
and of course, allied with that,if you're out and about, it's
just a bar or something you'lltend to munch along with
something with that, somethingsalty or fries or whatever else,
a bar food or so forth.
So again it becomes the alloycalories add up there.
So I guess, in terms of thefitness space, again it's about

(08:14):
moderation, as Dr Kennedy says,but it's also very important to
keep in context because ifyou're pursuing a fitness
program, if you are extensivelytaking an alcohol, your motor
activities, your fine motorskills are definitely going to
decrease because your reactiontimes won't be the same and, of
course, you're more likely, Iwould say, if you're recovering

(08:36):
from a hangover or whatever, toincur an injury and something
like that.
So moderation is the key and Iwould say I've got nothing
scientifically to back this up.
But I would say, if you'rereally looking for that six-pack
, look that everyone is a namewith these days.
I think drinking regularalcohol, beer in particular, is
not going to be a factor thathelps with that.

(08:57):
In fact, I would then say it'sdamn near impossible.

I have a comment and partly a question, because
you mentioned it has a lot ofcalories, but it also has a lot
of sugar.

Yes.

The one thing is actually it affects your
calories, but also it can leadto spike in your blood sugar.
Yes, that has other impacts andalso that in fact impacts
probably the metabolism as wellas how you actually process food
and to that that was mentionedhere, that if you eat that's
what the positive things fromFrance here it's mostly combined

(09:35):
with food.
Even when you have an aperitif,you drink before the meal.
You always have something withit to do and that you also feel
that you don't get as quicklydrunk.

It's important.

Also.
It's probably better for yourbody.

But I would suggest, if you're looking to
get into a physique contest,certainly beer drinking wouldn't
be pursued if you're looking atit on a regular basis.
But other than that, again, itis about moderation.

Dave Liss (10:01):
I'm still working on my six-pack, though that glasses
of wine is not helpful, the oneyou drink or the one you wear.

I don't know, that's yeah.

Dave Liss (10:13):
Yeah.

That's probably Kettle.
One wouldn't think that youwould go into one of your
fencing competitions withouthaving drunk beforehand, your
target might end up being awhole lot bigger than it really
is.

Dave Liss (10:30):
One thing that's common is people like they're a
little nervous about somethingthey're going to do, like
they're going on stage or goingto do something they'll do a
shot.
I don't know how we use alcoholfor those things.

If that's an individual thing, I say Dr K,
right, I'd say so.

think of it this way For a lot of people,
particularly the first few timesthat you drink alcohol for the
first time.
One of the things it does, isit gives you initially this sort
of euphoric sort of state ofmind, or this very relaxed state
of mind, so people's inhibitiontends to be lessened.
So that's why it's notsurprising that there are

(11:11):
sometimes there are people,although they should never do
this if they're going to give atalk or a presentation might
actually take a shot beforehandbecause they found in the past
they are more relaxed andtherefore they can focus and get
into whatever it is thatthey're doing, that's not a good
thing, but it's like anythingelse.

(11:32):
Alcohol has initially a high,but then, if you continue to
drink, it also can give you adepressive effect as well.

Dave Liss (11:40):
What is it about alcohol that causes people to
drop their ink to become violent.
Like bar fights and house abuseand things like that.
What is it about alcohol thatmakes people more violent?

I don't know if it's that it necessarily
makes people more violent, butyou reduce their inhibitions.
So, if you think of it, take aperson who happens to be two
people happen to be in a bar andhaving a disagreement over
whatever While they're in thebar they may disagree and be
also because there are other,more reasonable heads in the

(12:17):
room will basically interveneand push people away.
take them away etc intervening,push people away, take them away
, etc.
But if you're inhibited notinhibited, I should say and
someone is challenging you allof a sudden you get this hero
thing.
I can do anything.

(12:40):
You get this invincible mindset, and so throwing a punch at
that time or shoving somebody attime, you don't think twice
about it because you'reinhibited.
You can take the other avenue.
You're in a bar or a club andyou've had one or two drinks and
there's this young lady acrossthe room that you've been
noticing all evening, initiallybecause you're afraid of being

(13:02):
rejected, you don't say anything.
But then, after you've had acouple of drinks, you're not
really concerned about that andyou'll walk up to that person,
introduce yourself.
You might even say can I buyyou a drink, boy?
I've been standing herewatching you all evening I just
thought that you would reallylike this drink, so I took the

(13:22):
opportunity to bring that overto you Now.
That might not work, but at thesame time it takes away even if
you get rejected, you don't gointo a depressive state because
you don't care Because it's likeah, I tried, it didn't work and
you move on to the next.

I'm learning something every day
with Dr Kennedy.

Dave Liss (13:43):
As an emergency room.
As an emergency room physician,do you have any stories from
people that you came across inthe ER Plenty?

The problem is you have to remember many
times in the emergency roomyou're seeing people who are
intoxicated, so they'rebelligerent If their natural
behavior is to be aggressivethey're more aggressive If their
natural behavior is to be timidthey actually can be more
withdrawn.

(14:12):
I agree, dr K.
I agree.
You'll see this all the time,or you'll see people who would
like to.
They've always had to thoughtboy, if I could just run across
the street and jump over thatcar, I could do it, whereas
common sense says I haven't runin six years.

(14:32):
If I go and run and try to jumpon it, I'm probably going to
miss it and get hit by it.
But if you're and best example,I had a guy who was 350 pounds,
who was at a party, maybe fourblocks from the hospital, and
this guy challenged him to.

(14:53):
They obviously had beendrinking.
The guy challenged him to jumpout of the window from and this
is think of it, it's abrownstone, so it's a
three-story building and itchallenged him to jump from the
second floor to jump over thewrought iron fence onto the curb
and he bet him ten dollars thathe could do this.

(15:14):
So this is 1987 or so and theguy he jumped he didn't now
remember, I told you he's 350pounds.
His legs got over that wroughtiron fence.
His body didn't.
His body landed and went rightthrough the wrought iron fence.

(15:35):
So they had to cut the wroughtiron fence to bring him in.

Dave Liss (15:40):
Because he was still in his body.

The big dude.
He wasn't feeling anything.
He was like I'm ready to go,Let me go, but he was drunk as a
skunk.

Dave Liss (15:52):
Why?
You know?

I tend to agree, Dr K.
It was very much a pop cultureand.
I always believed thataggression.
It was usually people who hadthat sort of trait inborn into
them, I think, who wereaggressive by nature and without
alcohol's impact on majororgans like the brain, the liver
.
We often hear about how alcoholaffects the heart and the

(16:26):
immune system.

Yes.
So alcohol, you know, therehave been some studies that have
found that moderate drinkersagain these are the men two
drinks a day, women one a day,and again we're also talking
about, in the united states,everyone over the age of 21.
Technically, if you're under 21, you're not supposed to be

(16:49):
doing this at all, okay.
And so research has found thatit lowers mortality.
The moderate drinkers lowersthe mortality rates compared to
people who have abstained fromdrinking, versus those who are
heavy drinkers.
Now, because there have been nostudies to counter, that we

(17:11):
don't know how accurate thatreally is, so it doesn't mean so
if a person reads that, theymight say gee if I'm an adult
drink, but I hear that peoplewho drink, men who drink

Dave Liss (17:24):
two drinks a day.
If I start drinking two drinksa day, I may decrease my
mortality.

That's not necessarily true.
You don't know that, becauseit's never just about one thing.
You have to take into accountthe person's entire history,
their family history, how theyfunction at work, what kind of
work they do there's so manywhat their mental health history
is like all of those thingsplay a role.
So research has also found thatthe risk of diabetes is lower

(17:54):
in those who consume alcoholmoderately.
Now I question that, because Idon't understand the logic in
that.

But again remember, these are
observational studies, so thatyou sort of essentially mean, it
was a study that maybe theyinitially said we're going to
look to see if people who eat acertain way

and drink a certain way and compare them to
another group of people who aresupposedly eating a certain way
, but drink a little differentlywhat percentage of them get
diabetes versus those who don't.
So that's what it's implying.
You have to read further to seehow accurate that is, but
probably the one group healthissues that have been shown to

(18:41):
be beneficial is that evidencehas always suggested that mild
to moderate alcohol consumptiondecreases the risk of coronary
heart disease and therebycardiovascular mortality, and so
this goes back to what I usedto say two glasses of wine a day

(19:02):
.
One to two glasses of wine a daydecreases the risk of
cardiovascular mortality.
And they looked at this and Ithink it was the French
population, pairing it here tothe US, and that their level of
heart disease is less than thatin the United States.

(19:23):
So they made it.
And again, there are otherfactors that involve.
The French diet is verydifferent than the American diet
.
Therefore, forgetting about thetypes of food, just the
quantity that people consume isvery different than the quantity
that's consumed here in the US.

(19:43):
It's like there's more obesityin the US, there's less in
Europe.
Well, why is that?
We know that.
All you have to do is anytimethey show a picture of any of
the cities of Europe.
people are on bikes, people arewalking, people you know are.
They're always active.

(20:03):
You see that People sittingevery day at lunchtime drinking
wine.
I have plenty of friends wholive in France and are from
France who drink wine in themorning, in the middle of the
day and at night.
It's just part of the cultureand many of those people,
because I know them as patients,are healthy, despite what we

(20:24):
would think might be excessiveamounts of alcohol intake.

Dave Liss (20:28):
So take it into consideration.
How is it in Norway andAustralia versus America as far
as alcohol Kettles from Norway?

Yeah.

Dave Liss (20:40):
Norway Notice versus.

America as far as alcohol.
Kettles from Norway.
Yeah, norway, notice Norway.
It's much closer to America ina way that it is not something
drinking alcohol is notnecessarily part of you.
Actually, it might be a littledifferent from Australia, but
more like America.
It's not something of yourdaily life but you drink more
when there's a party.
It's more weekend drinking andit's larger quantities during

(21:02):
the weekend, and it's you know,whereas, for instance, in France
, you drink with meals and it'smore often, and also the
attitude towards drunkenness isvery different.
So here in France it'sconsidered really bad form and
also somewhat loss of control.
That you actually get drunk isa loss of control, Whereas in

(21:25):
Norway it's okay.
So that's like in America.
But you're looking for a wholedifferent thing when you drink
In France.
It's more about a bit with themeal or maybe in a social
setting.
a glass, two and you stop withthat, but the total quantity is
going to be more just a commenton on but maybe mike wants to

(21:46):
talk about australia, but acomment on these studies.
So, of course, when it comes todiet and all of these things,
and maybe even, to some extent,things like smoking, it's very
hard to do double blind testsand the kind of tests.
Absolutely.
So there's always going to besome problems with these things,
but as you said, one thingimportant is to try to figure

(22:07):
out what is the mechanism bywhich you can actually say the
causality goes one way or notthe other.
So the problem also, whenyou're comparing a population
that does so much thingsdifferent, yes, also, when
you're comparing a populationthat does so much things
different, yes, it's very hardto say that it's because of the
alcohol, because nearly everyoneis drinking one or two glasses.

Yeah, oh yeah, In Australia, remembering
that no, I left Australia 30years ago it might have changed,
but certainly the Australia Igrew up in was very much a hard
drinking sort of culture.
You worked hard and you playedhard.
Even if you played a sport, youwent to the bar after it and
many beers, and it was justconsidered part of life.
Your Fridays and Saturdays andso forth, you know, just

(22:49):
considered normal.
And I was going to bring thisup later.
But I think maybe now is anopportune moment to bring it up.
When we talk about themoderation, I guess when you're
in a culture similar to that andwhen you're in that sort of
atmosphere and we like to livein a real world, people are
people that to you know what DrKennedy was referring to, the

(23:09):
one standard drink, et cetera,that sort of goes out the window
.
I can't remember anyonecounting drinks unless you were
driving.
You didn't drink and drive whenwe're in a social situation in
Australia.
So moderation when it did becomea problem.
I was very fortunate I waspointed to in my physical
education degree.
I was pointed to a graph or areference called the Jelnik
curve and it was devised by DrMorton Jelnik and created and

(23:34):
developed the Jelnik curve backin the 50s and it was later
revived by a Britishpsychiatrist Matt Galat, and
it's a pictorial chart thatrepresents the typical phases of
becoming addicted to alcohol.

Dave Liss (23:48):
But what this does is .

it outlines specific behaviors where you
are going beyond moderation andit talks to actual, specific
behaviors like memory blackouts,urgency of your first drinks,
and progresses along there towhere you actually need
addictions, birth-bloodtreatment, and I always found it
both then growing up and nowwhen I'm in a wellness field and

(24:11):
as a wellness coach.
If anyone comes up and asks me,they maybe think they have a
drinking problem.
I refer them to this show andit makes them think about it a
bit more.
It points to specificbehaviours.
The one or two glasses.
I understand where they have tobe guidelines, but again, in a
social situation they go out thedoor and they don't get
listened to.
So this sort of chart reallyputs you in a position and makes

(24:34):
you see where you stand interms of maybe you're not too
moral, maybe you do need aspecial hotel, and that's when
you would go to an addictionspecialist.

But it's very interesting.
I'd really point to where thelistener's looking.

It's called the Addiction and Recovery, the
Jelnik.

Dave Liss (24:49):
And we'll put that in episode notes and put a link to
it there.

Yeah, but yeah, in Australia, even for
sports teams, it was very much ahard-drinking sort of culture.
I think it still is, although Iwould say it's just more.
The younger people are a bitmore refined than we were and
they're probably more into thewines.
Now I think drink driving rulesare very strict now, and so
that may restrict it somewhatnow Certainly growing up it was

(25:16):
very much a pop culture.

Dave Liss (25:16):
Does alcohol affect people or mean different things
to a person's body at differentages?
I don't like in our country orthe United States you're not the
drinking age for alcohol, forliquor, is 21.
Is there any like health reasonfor that?
And the different countrieslook at age of drinking
differently than we do.
And if you're an older personor 20 year old-old, does your

(25:39):
body deal with it differently?
A man or a woman?

With 18 in Australia.

Dave Liss (25:44):
we do that much and I can certainly tell you Dr
Kennedy's got more of a science,but I can certainly tell you
definitely your tolerancedecreases as you get old and
like a lot of things, but I'lllet Dr Kennedy speak to the
medical basis of it.

I think that people are first of all.
I think that 21, you'rebecoming an adult in this
country.
21 is that age that allows youto do a lot of things that you
weren't able to do before, andthey think that's at that level
where you're becoming moremature and more responsible.
As to why they do 21, because,yeah, I don't think.

(26:20):
Australia is the only countryin the world that uses 18, as a
lot of their other countriesthat 18.

Dave Liss (26:27):
England, I believe Middle, and in France, if I'm in
high school, can I have a drinkof a capillary 18.

18, yeah, Well, it's not.
The bar will not serve you andthey can get into trouble.
Now, the bar will not serve youand they can get into trouble,
but I would say in practice inthe restaurants, if you're in
the family, they are veryrelaxed about it.
So the 18 is not reallyportraying reality.
You would find younger peopledrinking and it's not considered

(26:54):
to be a problem.

Mr Rennie, is there any?
And I would think that againhere in the.
States.
One of the reasons that whatmakes a lot of sense is that a
lot of the motor vehicleaccidents in the younger people
happen.
There was an association withalcohol and or drugs, and so
they tried to get a handle on itby using 21, because we know

(27:19):
that every college campus,although they're supposed to be
alcohol free, you know thatthere are literally pubs just
off the campus ground most ofthe time.
So it's not that it's notavailable and people find ways
to get things, because all youneed is one person who's 21, to
walk into the supermarket or thegrocery store to pick up a

(27:43):
six-pack beer.

I often wonder, though it's the way we
look at it from a society'sviewpoint.
When I was in Germany the way Isaw the Germans.
They were very liberal withtheir drinking laws and I saw
people going before work intothe train station going for a
beer before work drinking A manin a business suit he'd been at
work all day.
He was standing on the trainplatform with a can of beer.

(28:06):
Now here or even in Australia,you would look at that with
Gantz and you would say, oh God,that's a bit of a problem.
But there it really wasconsidered just a drink and it
was no big deal.
So I guess it's the attitude toit here in America, with the
college groups and everything.
It's pound them down, let's getdrunk and so forth.
But I don't think it's German.
Some cultures have a much moresensible attitude to it, I think

(28:29):
.

Dave Liss (28:29):
It's interesting, I know when I was in college I
knew some people.
I'm sure you met people.
Their parents were very strict.
They lived in a home Maybe itwas a religious home or whatever
that they could not drink.
It was like you were committingmurder if you had a shot, if you
had a glass of beer, and thenwhen they went to college, they

(28:52):
went berserk wereovercompensated for being in
that strict environment and Ithink if you're in a place where
it's like less forbidding, it'syou know, maybe there's some
restraints that are natural,because it's not something
that's forbidden.

It's like when we were in Highsville not
the Christian Brothers CatholicSchool you had to have short
back and sides.
What did everyone do once theyleft school?
They grew hair down to theirshoulders.

Dave Liss (29:10):
They'd become servers and if you looked awful, but we
were rebelling, we're going tolet it grow.

It's pretty much the same thing, I think
but turning a little bit to theeconomic side of thing, kettle,
what is the economic burden ofalcohol related diseases on
health care systems?

can taxation or regulation help mitigate those
type of costs.
Yeah, it's, as I mentionedbefore.
The biggest thing has to dowith what happens when you are
drunk or you've been drinkingtoo much.
It's I mean, there's alwaysthere was some health've been
drinking too much.
I mean there's always somehealth effects of drinking too
much and people have illnesses.
But it's the amount of drinkingand it's as I said, it's about

(29:50):
drinking so much that you cannotperform your job, drinking and
having accidents and the cost ofthat.
It's both human toll as well aseconomic and that is the
biggest cost, I think,definitely more than the kind of
the overall health.
And there's also the overallhealth because people drink
generally, many drink more, likefour or five glasses of wine or

(30:14):
the equivalent in other alcohol, and of course it's going to
reduce their health.
It's very difficult to measurebut, as I said, some attempts
have come up with about 2.5% ofGDP different countries are
dealing with it different ways,but I would say it seems quite

(30:34):
similar in how much it costs indifferent societies.

Dave Liss (30:38):
What should we understand like?
2.5% of GDP means in dollars.

Yeah, you have to look at the GDP of the United
States.

Dave Liss (30:49):
Could you say that means in the billions?

I would have to be, wouldn't I?
I would think.

It would be so.
U S GDP is 27, about 30trillion U S dollars.
So 2.5% of that is brilliant.
It's thousands of millions.
It's not insignificant, no,it's not significant.
In the door no.

Dave Liss (31:12):
And I know that we've all met somebody in our lives
who's had a struggle withdrinking, and I think the one
thing that seems to me to be aproblem about if you have
someone who has a weight problemor most of your social
engagements involve either food,alcohol or both and you're on
the one hand, it's part of whatyou're doing, on the other hand,

(31:33):
you need to have restraintbecause of someone who's kind of
difficult.
How do you deal with those kindof things?

That's where it, I think, becomes very
difficult, I know, inpopulations and again this might
be the sphere of the addictionspecialist, like our colleague
who wrote the book Atomic Habits.
He's saying to get rid of badhabits you've got to look at the
environment you're in.
And it was always verydifficult.
If we did have friends who weresuffering alcohol problems, it
was very hard for them tosocialize with us because there

(32:00):
was always alcohol involved and,generally speaking, in my
experience the successful onesremove themselves from that
group and really went into adifferent sort of social sphere
Difficult.
It's very difficult if your peergroup or the group you
associate with your boardingclub alcohol is always involved.

So yeah, it becomes a difficulty and that is
a real cost on society.

I think and it makes it extremely tough for
individuals.
I've always had a lot ofadmiration for people who do
manage to do that, becausethat's quite a task.
You've got to change your lifearound, and I've seen a few
people do that, but nothing butadmiration for them.

Yeah, and you should admire it, because I
think it's like any addictivedrug, the most difficult thing
is for the person addicted to itto acknowledge that they are
addicted to it.
Yeah, yeah, and because that'sthe first step in the process of
heal is to acknowledge thatit's a problem and alcohol is

(32:57):
different, and that it willbecause it generates what we
call empty calories, like yousaid.
For a heineken 40 calories, andif you drink three of them,
you're almost at 400 calories.
And so if a person does thatand it fools the interesting

(33:17):
thing alcohol fools the body,particularly the liver, to
thinking it's getting nutrition.
So what it then does is stopthe individual from eating.
They don't feel hungry becausethey fulfilled the liver's
caloric need, and so that's whythey tend to have much more

(33:38):
problems with their liver.
They tend to have much moreproblems with their pancreas.
They tend to have more problemswith their gallbladder and
thereby, when you do, thatbecause there are several
enzymes that we all need tofunction and to help with
nutrition and digestion youdon't use because they need to

(33:59):
get destroyed, because the liveris overworking, because it
realizes, after it thought itgot calories that it didn't, so
it's craving more.
It releases what it has andthen you start to have less and
less available.
Well, that's where the chronicliver disease comes from, that's
where the acute and chronicpancreatic disease comes from,

(34:22):
et cetera.
It's why people who have gout,who drink a lot, tend to have
greater, more frequent flares oftheir gout.

Dave Liss (34:30):
And so yes.

What leads to cirrhosis of the liver which
is common amongst alcoholics.
Okay.
I guess one of the questionsposed is also how does alcohol
consumption affect physicalperformance, recovery and mental
clarity and what are the safeways to incorporate it into a
fitness routine?
I guess, if I could look atlooking at that, obviously it's
dose dependent.

(34:51):
I don't think if you're in asporting activity on a weekend,
maybe a few drinks earlier inthe week is going to hurt you
that much.
But I do know at top level whenyou're talking about elite
sportsmen whether Aussie rulesor soccer players or even NFL
players in the 50s, 60s, 70sthey were quite hard drinkers as
well.
They worked hard and playedhard.
But the sport has become sorefined now and so fine-tuned

(35:15):
and more endurance, based inespecially australian rules and
the soccer and so forth, theyreally generally turn off
alcohol all year long during theseason.
It's very rare that you wouldsee them drink alcohol during
the season now.
So that's, at the elite level,what happens?
Of course, being young guys,they're looking for a high
somewhere.
They might turn to somethingelse that has less effects on

(35:38):
skin falls and weight and soforth, and that could be all
sorts of other extraneous typesof material speed and cocaine
and so forth.
So there's a double-edged swordto that In alcohol consumption
for the average person in afitness routine.
I think again moderation andallowing yourself time to
recover, so that you've dictatedit out of your system a little

(36:00):
bit.
Obviously, leave 12 to 18 hoursbefore you do your next
exercise session, just so thatyou're not going in there with a
belly full of alcohol orpossibly being a bit troubled by
fine motor motor movements, andthat's just a general rule of
thumb.
Now I have no research toreally back that up would you
agree with that?

yeah, and I'd also say if you take the
amateurs, so take the weekendgolfer or the weekend basketball
player.
You know that they may.
You know, and during of golf,people drink beer, they drink
alcohol.
While they play, they smokecigars.
Some of them will tell you theyplay better.

(36:40):
Some of them will tell you theyplay better because they relax,
that they're not as tense.
But I always say that at theend of the round.
When you look at their scores,if you compare it to the time
where they didn't drink at alluntil after the round was over,
versus during the round, theydon't perform as well.

(37:00):
And then you look at the personthat now there are some people
who I call it our alcoholdependence, that they drink it
so often that it is part oftheir sustenance, and so when
they don't drink it, and this iswhat we see in the emergency
room is the alcohol?

(37:20):
withdrawal or the deliriumtremens, where they're coming
confused and disoriented.
They're tremulous.
Why is that?
Basically because you alter thechemical breakdown in the brain
, that's all.
You just make it.
The things that are supposed tobe working aren't working as
well.
And again, when you createfalse calories, you actually

(37:45):
cause increased fat deposits andfat deposits in the brain.
If you do it enough, youbasically decrease some of the
normal functioning neuronbecause they're being compressed
, they're not allowed tofunction.
So there's always this and it'sa very fine line.
There are in practice, you know,when you ask the question do

(38:06):
you drink alcohol?
And then you ask people howmuch do you drink a day?
How much do you drink?
And if you go to any doctor'soffice for the first time, they
have you fill out aquestionnaire.
They ask you do you smoke?
If so, how much do you smoke aday?
How much do you smoke in a week?
Do you drink alcohol?
How much do you smoke in a day?

(38:27):
How much do you smoke in a week?
And we always say that peoplewho've been longtime smokers if
they tell you they smoke onepack a day, you know they drink.
They smoke two to three.
If they tell you that they haveone drinks a day.
They probably haven't four tofive Then, particularly if
they're the person who's askingyou to come in and write them a

(38:48):
note so that they can take timeoff from work because they just
had a bad week and they needsome time to recover, there's
this very fine line.
And again, these are the peoplewho drink who don't think their
drinking is abnormal, and ifthey don't think it's abnormal,
then it can't be a problem.
If it's not a problem, thenthey just continue to do,

(39:12):
because they'll tell you I'vebeen doing this for 25 years,
I'm functioning fine, I stillwork on Wall Street, I still
work in the Senate and they'lltell you that they're fine.
And it's, it's the subtleties.
It's the subtle things wherethey're in the middle of talking
about something and they losetrack of what they're saying, or
they start with one sentenceand come up with a completely

(39:35):
different sentence that hadnothing to do with the previous.

Dave Liss (39:38):
Do you think that most of us are guilty of it, of
lying to ourselves and lying toour doctors?

No, no.
I think that to me it dependson the relationship you have
with your doctor.
If you have a good relation,working relationship with with
your doctor and you feel thatyour doctor's always got your
best interest in heart Becauseit's interesting, most times
people will come in and will sayOK, based on your history and
the recent lab tests we've doneand exams we need to change.

Dave Liss (40:10):
We may need to repeat that last part.
There was something on theglitch in the matrix there.

Oh I said, if you're meeting with your
doctor and they say you need tolose weight and one of the ways
that you can get people to loseweight is to cut back on their
alcohol.
So, as they say, when we talkabout beer, people have beer
bellies, as they say.
You can be walking through anairport terminal and you can
tell many of the people who havea lung affiliation with beer

(40:40):
just by the way their bellieslook and the way they move and
the way they talk.
This is more of just havingexperience.
So I don't think peopleintentionally, and again I think
it depends on the person.
So I don't think peopleintentionally, and again I think
it depends on the person.
Some people are really, whenthey're concerned about
something, they're more apt totell you something because they
want help.

(41:00):
And there are other people whoI didn't really come here to
talk about that.
I came here to talk about this.

Dave Liss (41:07):
And that's all I really want to talk about.

So they'll, they want to.
They want it to go away becausethey don't want to discuss it
right then.

And Let me throw another, a more positive
vibe here.
I don't think we're beingnegative, we're being exactly
right, it's true.
But I would say that I've drankbeer most of my life and I've
got to say it's probably some ofthe best times in my life.
Met some of the best people,been a great social lubricant
yes, been wonderful for me inbusiness I've been telling you

(41:37):
that lots of times discussingthings that are hard to discuss.
You can discuss them over a fewbeers overall, I would say it's
been a very positive effectmeeting with my friends and
family over a few drinks that'sone of the joys of life so again
it's moderation's moderation,but there's also, I think, a
positive aspect that can't beoverlooked.

Dave Liss (41:57):
But again, it's like anything, you can overdo
anything if it's good.
That's just a point I'd like tomake.

I have a question .
Is it so the?
You talked about relaxing andyou said, in quotation marks but
does it?
Is there a muscle-relaxingelement of alcohol, or is it
just in your head?

I don't know.
I feel relaxed, but I'm notsure.

I'm not sure, but I know that it is
definitely from the mentalstandpoint.
There is a relaxed sensation,no question about it, and by
default.
For instance, if you are aboutto do something that requires a
lot of strength and tension, youtend to initially tense up in
preparation for it and then youdo it.

(42:42):
Alcohol does relax you, but theproblem is the amount of
alcohol that I might need totake to get relaxed may be
different than Mike.

Dave Liss (42:54):
That may be different than Dave, or may be different
than you.

That there is and certain drinks.
So for instance, I could drinka glass of wine and then have
another glass of wine and I'mdone for the evening.
But I could drink 44milliliters of a scotch of a
good quality scotch, and I'd befor the evening.
But I could drink 44 ml of ascotch of a good quality scotch,
and I'd be good all night.
So it's very different and Ithink that says a lot about each

(43:23):
of us being a little bitdifferent.

Another question.
So it's the interaction withthings like depression.

You mentioned earlier that there was
a depressant yeah, that themore they drink it, the longer.
The more they drink it, themore likely that later on
they'll have a depressed mood orbe sad or more quiet.
It's why they tend to fall offto sleep.
It's why you don't want peopleto drink and drive, because in

(43:52):
the midst of their drivingthey're not as alert, they're
not as focused on what's aheadof them.
They're actually too relaxed,too calm.

Yeah, I think that's a good point and
you bring that up because, again, I'm talking from personal
experience.
If there was a problem I facedor if there was a stress,
alcohol wasn't the answer.
I never used it as a.

I never thought to use it as a way to get relief
or something like that You'vegot to tackle the problem.

I always saw it as a social lubricant for
celebration not forcommiseration or depression.
And I think there's a very realelement when you see people
drink too much in a depressivestate, it's not good and I'm not
a psychologist, but that's avery good point, yeah, yeah.
Well, we're nearing to wrap up,but, kevin, maybe you could
comment.

Dave Liss (44:43):
Is there any lessons we can learn from?
Countries with stricter or morestricter regulations on alcohol
or even more lenient.

Is there anything economically that makes
them stand out or be differentwhen they have those regulations
?

I think it's a very difficult question because
it's so linked into theirculture, all the Nordic
countries having a very strictregime.
But I think unless you want togo the whole way out, you're
going to have to struggle andhave some leniency when it comes
to alcohol, I think overalleven though, living in France, I

(45:19):
must say that cultural attitudetowards alcohol helps in.
It promotes moderation andactually alcohol consumption is
falling in France, okay, whereasin the Nordic countries it's
not, and it's a healthierapproach, although it has costs

(45:41):
here too.

Dave Liss (45:42):
A large amount of drinking all day, it's not good
but that's not really the caseanymore, so I think that's a
good thing.

So I think there's a lot to learn from that
, but it's a part of a whole.
After all, it's considered asfood and it's the approach to
food in general.
I think that's another way oflooking at it as well.
It's like saying that you knoweverything you take in the body
is going to have an effect onyou, and it's a part of a
harmonious relationship to yourfood.

Dave Liss (46:11):
And that's also one of the things that's very
different here.

You eat at certain times, you drink at
certain times, you do thingsduring a certain rhythm.
Yeah, okay.

Dave Liss (46:21):
Dr Kinney, I think we're winding down but if you
were going to talk to a teenageboy or teenage girl right now
and you were going to advisethem about how they should think
about alcohol and how they'regoing to consider them, about
how they should think aboutalcohol and how they're going to
consider it in their life, whatwould you tell them or what
should we understand?

I'd ask, I'd actually say I would tell
them what we know about drinkingin moderation, that they should
and at the age that they're atnow that alcohol there's no
advantage to them using alcoholat this time in their life, as
they get older.

Dave Liss (46:57):
that may be for celebration things of that
nature.

But I would also encourage them.
You grew up in a householdwhere you may either there was
no alcohol or there was somealcohol, and I think it's
important to take into accountwhat your family believes is
normal, assuming all things werepretty normal to begin with.
You want them to follow theguidance, because the people who

(47:24):
clearly said there will be nodrinking, no alcohol, no,
anything like this, some ofthose children cannot wait to do
it.

Dave Liss (47:35):
It's no different than them saying nobody's going
to smoke in this house.

And every opportunity they get, they try
to find a way to do it.
Because, if you particularlybecause we live where alcohol is
advertised, just like theyadvertise detergent, just like
they advertise deodorant andhair wash clothing so it's part

(48:00):
of the culture, it's part oflife, so you want people to
understand it.
And also, people won't know howalcohol affects them until they
cry, how alcohol affects themuntil they cry, and so
moderation is always the key.
But you always tell people andI agree with Mike is that it is

(48:24):
like a social interaction thatcreates good vibes, good things,
lots of, as they say.
Probably many business deals allover the planet have taken
place with a glass in eachperson's hand, whether they
drink anything of it or not, butjust the fact because it is a

(48:45):
way to relate to one another.
You may get to the point whereyou talk about gee, I like this
particular drink, try this,things like that.
So there are many differentways in doing it.
Rather than forbidding that,it's there, and I think you have
to deal with, really have torespect your own culture, what

(49:07):
works for you, because you maygrow up in a culture where
you're quite comfortable.
Like fors don't drink.
The entire arab world.
They don't drink and and theyfunction perfectly fine.
They do every, but they havethe same diseases that everybody
else has and they said theyjust have less percentages of,

(49:30):
but they still have them it andthey probably have motor vehicle
accidents, just like we havemotor vehicle accidents.
They just don't have alcohol astheir drug.

In this country they drink a lot of soft drinks.
Now that's been marked a littlebit and that functions a little
bit the same way, but that hasa lot of sugar as well.
Okay, Okay, guys, we've covereda lot of ground today.

And as we wrap up this discussion, let's
share one actionable takeawayfor listeners about making
informed decisions regardingalcohol.
Dr Cain, let's start off withyou.

If you're not drinking.
You shouldn't start drinkingjust to be one of the crowd.
You should think about it, andeverything in moderation.
The goal here is, for women,one, for men, two, and I would
tell you, if you're starting out, one probably is more than
enough for you to sense and see,because there's going to be a

(50:26):
feeling or a reaction to it.
Now, some people may have none,you're going to have a few
people, but that doesn't meanI'm supposed to drink until I
feel, something because normallyit's going to go down the wrong
ladder, as they say.
And again, be responsible, Beresponsive.

Kettle.
Yeah, I would very much agreewith Dr Kennedy.
When it comes to alcohol, wefocus on mostly to drink it with
food.
Yes, of course there might besome exceptions, but make sure
that you have a good feelingabout how the body reacts to it
and as well also that goes on alittle bit the speed of

(51:06):
consumption as well.
Why don't you stop take stock alittle bit about what's
happening in your body?
You start take stock a littlebit about what's happening in
your body.
The first glass of wine often isthe one that tips you over, and
then you start having a fewothers.

Dave Liss (51:19):
I've had the opportunity once to talk to Tony
Robbins.
And the conversation was aboutfood, but I think that his
response goes to food andalcohol as well.
He said food is the friend thatcan't say no.
And I think that alcohol ismuch the same way.
If it's there and you want it,it's not going to say no to you.

(51:41):
You have to say no to it.
You choose your friends wisely.
It's how you should live yourlife, yeah, and.

I'll just finish off with regarding
fitness programs and wellnessgenerally.
Align your drinking habits withyour fitness goals and
generally.

Dave Liss (51:54):
I would say it's for celebration not commiseration.

It's to meet and be a social and enjoy
the benefits.

Dave Liss (52:00):
And on an educational level.
I'm a real fan of thataddiction and recovery.

the gel neck curve it's just a good
reference point for family,friends yourself if you think
you might be overindulging inalcohol.
But on a more positive note, ifyou want to see.

Dave Liss (52:15):
I have to mention this fellow Dr K might remember
him.
There was a famous athlete backin or boxer back in the 40s and
50s named Two-Tone Tony.

Galento yes.

Who owned Two-Tone.
Tony Galento, who owned a barin New Jersey and used to box
and actually knocked Joe Lewisdown, nearly won the heavyweight
championship.

Dave Liss (52:36):
That was a person who is an example of both playing
hard and working hard.

That's a guy for a good juxtaposition on
everything we've been talkingabout, I guess on a positive
note and that's a wrap, folks,today we explored alcohol from
multiple angles its effect onhealth, its societal crisis,
economic implications, its rolein personal wellness and in
social interaction.

Dave Liss (52:57):
If you've enjoyed today's discussion, subscribe to
.
Wellness Musketeers and sharethis episode with others who
might benefit from theseinsights.

Stay informed, stay well and always
consider the bigger picture whenit comes to your health journey
.

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Beyond the Buzz - Alcohol: Friend or Foe?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beyond the Buzz - Alcohol: Friend or Foe?