September 3, 2023 • 41 mins
What happens when a world-class athlete shares her journey into the intricate domain of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? We find out as we chat with the incredible Sa'idah Zeinab Durkee, also known as the Ginja Ninja. With a brown belt to her name, Sa'idah's deep dive into the sport is more than just about acquiring the belt or winning competitions. It's about the transformative effect Jiu-Jitsu had on her overall health, the resilience she built, and the community she found. She reveals how training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can transform your mental and physical and shares her personal journey to the sport, how it helped manage her autoimmune disease, and the inclusive, tight-knit community it provides.
"Jiu-Jitsu saved my life. It really is like human chess - you're constantly trying to get to checkmate." - Sa'idah Zeinab Durkee
The beauty of Jiu-Jitsu lies not only in its potential as a self-defense technique for all sizes but also in its capacity to build mental stamina and foster a sense of belonging. It's about the power of repetition in habit formation, the nerve-wracking excitement of competition, and the invaluable lessons learned on the mat. As we navigate the world of this male-dominated sport, Sa'idah offers strategies for success, particularly for women, in carving their niche and rising up the ranks.
The conversation doesn't stop at the physical and mental benefits of Jiu-Jitsu. We delve into how it becomes a touchpoint for human connection and a platform for community building. We hear about Sa'idah's role as a mentor, helping students navigate through these challenging pandemic times with online classes. From fostering confidence to providing a sense of community and acting as a form of self-defense, Sa'idah illustrates how Jiu-Jitsu transcends conventions, welcoming everyone from all ages, races, and occupations. If you've ever wondered about finding a Jiu Jitsu Academy and getting started in the sport, this episode is an absolute must.
=-=
Sa'idah Zeinab Durkee feels privileged to coach people of all ages and backgrounds in Jiu-Jitsu, bringing them together as a community focused on mutual growth, care, and empowerment - connect with her here:
GinjaNinjaBJJ on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/ginjaninjabjj/?hl=en
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, I'm David Liss, a DC-based consultant and
journalist, your host for thisseries of podcasts, wellness
Musketeers, where we willdiscuss a wide range of topics
in the field of health, wellnessand fitness, with some current
events thrown in as well.
Your host for today's episodeis Kettle Veeting, one of the
Wellness Musketeers team.
(00:28):
Kettle has worked at theInternational Monetary Fund as
an economist for many years andis also a lifelong martial
artist, a black belt inTaekwondo and, most recently,
practicing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi, this is Kettle Veeting.
In this episode of WellnessMusketeers, we feature an
Italian, saida Zena Durpe, alsoknown as Jinja Ninja, a
world-class athlete practicingBrazilian Jiu Jitsu is
derivative of Jiu Jitsu and Judo, a legendary old martial arts
(01:04):
with origins in China and Japan.
She is a brown belt and amaster Lloyd Irwin and Professor
Isaac Duly Jr in Washington DC.
We will discuss her coachingand competition style, as well
as her focus on the growth ofthe community.
She will touch on thechallenges with Jiu Jitsu and
(01:26):
why you might think aboutstarting practicing it for hell.
Fun or very competition.
The interview is quite personalto me.
In fact.
Saida is a truly exceptionalhuman being and extraordinary
talented instructor.
I experienced her talents asthe boldest students in the club
(01:47):
, mostly more than twice the ageof the other students, but I
have also seen how she has beensupportive of particularly women
at the club, including studentswho are in prayers.
In some way, she wasparticularly helpful to a group
of students helping us pullthrough the pandemic with big
(02:07):
online classes.
Saida, first of all, why JinjaNinja?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Thank you guys for shoving me today.
So Jinja Ninja was a nicknamethat I got when I was practicing
Taekwondo as a kid, because Ihave crazy wild red hair and it
stuck and luckily I went back tomartial arts later on in life,
so it just continued on throughthere.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Let's be a little more curious, saida what is
really Brazilian Jiu Jitsu,human jazz or something else?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a really interesting
martial art.
I usually describe it easily asif you combined Judo and all of
the throwing mechanics that yousee in Judo combined with some
American wrestling and I'm nottalking about WWE wrestling,
more high school collegeAmerican wrestling.
(03:06):
If you combined those two andthen added the submissions back
in so arm locks and chokes andleg locks, that type of thing
you'll have what Brazilian JiuJitsu is, and it is that it's
the combination of thosedifferent types of martial arts.
The interesting thing about itis it's a newer martial art as a
(03:28):
whole, but it comes fromcenturies of different martial
arts coming back together.
I think that the oldest form ofJudo was used on a battlefield
where people would throw peopleoff of their horses and then
attack them from there, andthere were a lot of submissions
during that time.
(03:49):
But over time they took thingsout to make it more of an
acceptable quote, unquotemartial arts that could be shown
off and even in the Olympics.
So it took a lot of submissionaspect away from it and then
when it was transferred toBrazilian Jiu Jitsu through
(04:09):
Mitsuyo Maeda, who traveled fromJapan to Brazil to teach it, he
reincorporated those aspectsinto it and then it's grown
since then.
So I think the coolest partabout it is it's constantly
evolving.
It's not a martial art, it'snot the rules aren't stuck.
It's evolution on a yearlybasis.
(04:32):
We see rule changes, we seepeople coming up with new moves
all the time.
This is never ending rabbithole and I think that you
experience that as well.
So a lot of people like todescribe it as like a human
chess game.
You're constantly trying to getto the point where you can get
somebody to submit, essentially,but it takes on the life of its
(04:54):
own of playing a game and youmove, they move, you move and
you get to the point where youcan say checkmate.
Basically.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So the Brazilian thing really doesn't come.
But many mention Brazilian JiuJitsu.
Some people think it's a dance.
People do feel like a dance,but the more the duo with the
practice was developing, thetype of Jiu Jitsu was developed
in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
That's correct.
Yeah, like I was mentioning,mitsuyo Maeda was a practitioner
in Judo in Japan and hetraveled to Brazil, I believe in
1970 and or something like that, so it's only about a century
old.
But he traveled and then heended up teaching a couple of
(05:38):
students who are the graces,which are probably the best
known family in Brazilian JiuJitsu in the world, and evolved
this.
Sorry, let's cut that realquick, you good, okay, so I'm
going to go right back into it.
So Mitsuyo Maeda away fromJapan, where he was practicing
(06:00):
Judo, and he traveled to Braziland ended up teaching a couple
of students who were part of theGracie family, which is
probably the best known familyin Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and they
evolved it together and thencontinued on from there and
there's offshoots and differentevolutions in different ways,
but the reason it's calledBrazilian Jiu Jitsu is because
(06:22):
the modern version of BrazilianJiu Jitsu evolved in Brazil.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Keeping it simple, yeah, I think actually what you
mentioned about the innovationsin Brazilian Jiu Jitsu something
that has really surprised me,compared to all of the other
martial arts been doing is theemerald of innovation on YouTube
, new moves being introduced.
It's very physical but also, inthat, very, very mental, so
(06:48):
it's joining both of them.
Can you tell me a little bitwho you actually got introduced
to Jiu Jitsu in the first placeand what motivated you to start
practicing?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
As I mentioned, I actually grewup in Egypt.
My parents were working thereand I was practicing Taipan Do
and I practiced it for a longtime.
But some martial arts,unfortunately in the US and
other places, have gottenwatered down.
So the way I was practicingTaipan Do in Egypt was pretty
(07:24):
hardcore in regards to how it'spracticed in a lot of other
parts of the world.
So when we moved back to the US, I tried to find a school and
it just seemed, yeah, like Isaid, watered down.
There was a whole lot oftatting.
Nobody wanted to get hit in theface.
I understand the reasons behindit, especially as a kid, but it
(07:46):
just didn't fulfill what I waslooking for.
So I ended up going to othersports, practicing other things,
did some other martial artsalong the way, but nothing
really grabbed me the same way,and then I actually just goes
into some other things.
But I ended up getting diagnosedin my early 20s with an
(08:08):
autoimmune illness and was toldthat I couldn't practice any
sports at all.
I was crazy because, as I'm avery active person, I couldn't
even do yoga, for instance,which was crazy.
So this was a like like a manyyears journey for me of going
through doctors and medicationsand crazy things like that.
(08:31):
But I actually ended up findingKebueira, which is also from
Brazil and it's a no contactmartial art, and I thought, oh,
maybe I could try this out,maybe it won't hurt me quite as
much.
So I ended up taking that onand I had some friends who did
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, who wouldcome and cross-train with us and
(08:54):
they ended up really trying toconvince me to do presenting
Jujitsu, not knowing about myillness or anything like that.
But what's crazy is I did endup taking it on, I tried it a
couple of times and my illnesssubsided and actually is in
remission, which, who knows.
(09:15):
The doctors like to disagreewith me on this, but I'm pretty
sure Jujitsu saved my life.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's pretty amazing, yeah.
So in a way, in a much lessdramatic way, I think I have a
similar person story.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I want to know about your story, Kela.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I am not a spring chicken.
I started five, six years agosomething like that.
Just two years ago, I startedwhat we call it.
Well, we practically call itorling.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
And after rolling, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
We started the International Finance
Corporation at lunchtime and itpicked up from there and now
I've been not doing as much asSeida, but I would say that,
together with other things I'mdoing, it's also kept me really
in good shape, and also all ofthe things, the ailments you get
(10:11):
when you're old age not onlyold age but backaches and all
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
It's really helping.
I think so.
So I can relate to your storyin a not as a dramatic way, but
I do think when you getsubmitted, sometimes it's
actually your twin partnerstretching your out.
That's what it's like.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
No, definitely you guys don't know Kettle
personally, but maybe you do.
You probably do actually.
But if that's donating as acoach and also as a training
partner and also as a fellow toJujutsu, it's interesting to
watch because a lot of peoplemight look at him and be like,
(10:55):
ok, he looks like a strong, bitolder guy.
I should be fine, I'm like 21.
I could take him and thenwatching him just really use his
skill and the precision of hismovement is fascinating because
a lot of people who know aboutJujutsu think about a smaller
(11:16):
woman being able to use it as aself-defense mechanism, because
there's a lot of scienceinvolved in Jujutsu.
There's a lot of using thepeddlix of motion and using
somebody else's weight againstthem, which I think is a
fascinating part of Jujutsu.
If you have a 120-pound girland you have a 170-pound
(11:41):
attacker, yes, she probably cantake him on if she's been
training.
But when you're actuallytraining and there's a 120-pound
girl and a 170-pound guy whoalso trains, it presents many of
you not so much, but it isfascinating that as you go up in
skill you actually start usingyour technique so much more
(12:05):
efficiently.
And same for you.
Maybe your knees don't workperfectly, so you use other
parts of your body.
There's always something elsethat you can understand how to
use more efficiently to make upfor whatever is lacking, and I
think that's a reallyinteresting way that it can be
used.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So what you mentioned then about I mean we mentioned
the physical benefits I wouldactually add on yes, it's a
mental benefit.
Yeah absolutely, and especiallywhen you're then talking about
the weight differences.
So I am now 170, but there areeasy young guys that 250.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
When they're on top of you.
You need to endure that and youneed to be able to control your
breathing.
So what are these things?
Actually?
The fact that even the best,the kids who practice now will
be submitted.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And the experience of submission in itself.
It's a kind of mental challengeand something to overcome.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
One thing that I haven't done I know that the
state is on my back and pushingmost partitions to actually do
is to compete and I haven't donethat and I would be very
curious about hearing about yourexperience with competition,
and I think also the businesswould be interested, because
(13:30):
this also goes in other sports.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
How do you prepare and what have you learned from
losing?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Interesting, great question.
That's a great question.
I'm actually going to walk youback for a second Because, for
the listeners involved, I'd justlike to say I described
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as acombination of Judo and
wrestling with submissions.
But you just have to imaginethat you're on the ground and
(13:58):
there's a person either at leastyour side, that's not larger
trying to attack your limbs ortry to choke you from the band
and you're struggling to get outand you're trying to, at the
same time, attack them andyou're going back and forth in
this and it really is a mentalaspect to just controlling your
(14:21):
breathing, just controlling yourheadspace and unlike, I think,
at least having practiced othermartial arts unlike when you're
getting kicked or punched in thehead, you're feeling your
entire body going through thesemotions, but you do have time to
think about it.
When you're getting kicked orpunched in the head, you're just
(14:43):
reacting.
It's a very reactionary motionwhen you're halfway through
being choked and you're like Ineed to pull this arm on, move
me and turn and face them andget a knee in between their legs
so that I can move past themand come back on top.
There's this strategy, thisconstant rolling strategy, going
through your line and it's avery interesting part of it.
(15:06):
So, going back to thecompetition part, as a coach, my
feedback to students is thatyou train with a lot of the same
people every day.
They get to learn how you move.
You get to learn how they move.
You guys aren't trying to killeach other, you're trying to
(15:27):
help each other get better andunderstand the sport better.
And even when you go a littlebit harder, you're still in this
participatory sport togetherand you're learning from each
other and helping each other.
So what happens is that you getinto a repetition and even if
you go train at another schoolor you travel and you cross
(15:49):
train somewhere else, you stillget into using those motions.
The same way, you understandhow your breathing works, how
everything works, but that's notthe same as being put A in a
real life situation where youwould really need to use it.
That's the ultimate test is ifyou do get attacked or if you're
trying to defend somebody whois being attacked when you
(16:12):
actually are using these skills,which has come into play for me
only once in the nine yearsthat I've been practicing
jiu-jitsu.
But besides that, you don'tknow how you really will react
and when you're doing, let's say, taekwondo or karate or boxing
(16:32):
or even Muay Thai, somethinglike that you can only spar once
a week because your body can'ttake that.
You can practice every day, butyou can't spar.
You can't go hard every day,but jiu-jitsu you can actually
spar every single day becauseyou're rest-blaning, you're
going through these motions andunless you have some major
(16:53):
injury, you can actually pushthe pace almost every single day
.
So you don't know how you'rereally going to react until
you're in a situation where youhave to and that's not trained.
So I like to encourage people toat least try competition for
(17:13):
that reason, because youradrenaline spikes, you get a lot
of people, get the jitters, alot of people get super nervous.
I've seen kids crying in themiddle of their matches, and not
because they're hurt, justbecause their emotions go
haywire.
It might be the most calm forsome when they're training and
(17:33):
then when they're competing,it's a completely different
thing.
Or vice versa, it might besomebody who every day in
training is crazy and thensuddenly is very calm when
they're in this other situation.
So I think, besides using itfor a real world situation,
competition is the closest youcan get to understanding whether
(17:54):
your jujitsu really does ordoesn't work, and that's why I
think it's really important toyou.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Thank you, that's very interesting.
Anything about your operationfor the super heights?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, I think you're asking more, just about how I
prepare Exactly what's the ingeneral.
Yeah, and it definitely issomething that has changed over
time.
You start understanding.
It's similar to training howyou understand how your
breathing works, you start.
Everybody has to have their ownkind of ritual or routine when
(18:30):
it comes to competing.
Some people won't train at allthe week before.
Some people want to train theday of.
It's weird that everybody worksa little bit differently.
For me, I usually train a lotharder until about a week before
the tournament and then I rampit down and just drill a lot the
(18:51):
week before.
I focus a lot with our studentsand myself on game plan.
So to give one is like yourperfect situation.
What would happen right?
It's not if this is going tohappen.
If this is going to happen,it's just in a perfect world we
would shake hands and this iswhat would happen, right.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
That's how you finish a match in 30 seconds.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, so if you can work through your game plan,
even if it's just in your headjust over and over.
I focus a lot on routine, sorather than eating something
special or different or anythinglike that, I try to keep eating
the same thing every dayleading up to a tournament, and
(19:35):
then the day of is the samething.
In addition, I guess, if I knowI'm going to compete at night,
I train at night leading up toit.
If I know I'm going to becompeting in the morning, I
train in the morning.
Those kinds of things help.
Different playlists that you canlisten to will help modulate
how your body reacts, especiallyif you do it consistently.
(19:58):
And then I have a couple offunny things that I do.
I have wherever I go compete,if I'm traveling, I take my last
gold medal Because I feel likeit brings on the next gold medal
.
That's just the first of allthings, but I also have a couple
of little things from my dad,from my sister, from friends
(20:19):
that I take with me and havethis little collection that I
set up the night before.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's a very interesting thing.
I wonder if we can move toanother area.
This is most traditionally maledominated sport.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And the question comes really it's an important
question about how is it to be awoman in this environment.
But for the listeners who don'tknow, but see if they're
swimming, at least in trainingwe are training it's mixed.
I don't know where, any placeswhere they really separate.
So in competition it'sseparated, generally at least,
yeah, but in training it's mixed, Correct.
(20:58):
But that dimension tells us alittle bit about that.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, thank you for asking about that.
It is overall.
Combat sports in general arevery much dominated, mostly by
men.
Overall, I think that Brazilianjiu-jitsu has expanded and it
has opened a lot of doors forwomen to be more evolved, but
(21:22):
it's a constant push from thewomen that are in the sport to
be doing that.
I don't really treat it anydifferently.
I coach men and women and Ithink what actually takes away
from it is when you separate ittoo much.
So I know that they're femaleonly events that happen and I
(21:43):
think that those are importantjust because there are a lot of
gyms that only have one or twowomen that train there.
So you're not used to it, youdon't get that feeling, you
don't get that camaraderie thathappens when there are a lot of
women.
We have a lot of women thattrain with us now and it's not
just because there is a femalecoach.
(22:04):
I'm sure it helps that I'mthere, but it's all about how
the community grows.
If a gym welcomes women andencourages them and pushes them
and like for a woman to walkinto a martial arts gym, and
especially one where you'rephysically like on top of each
(22:25):
other, sweating in each other'sbases, is already.
She already won A battle.
Just walking in the door, youknow what I mean.
For anybody that's hard, but fora small woman, a regular sized
woman, for any woman to walkinto that kind of environment is
already hard, right.
So it's not like it's womenthat are walking in there who
(22:47):
don't want to be there.
They want to be there, whetherit's because they had an
experience that made them thinkI need the self defense aspect
of this, or if it's women whoare just tough girls, who are
tomboy or they did other martialarts and they want to.
They want to do it, they wantto really push themselves.
(23:08):
Either way, if you walk into anenvironment where there are no
other women, it's going to behard, right.
So I think having women bringother women in and then having
men who are not scared to trainwith women Because again that
goes back to the ego part Likewhen you're submitted by a woman
(23:30):
or a smaller woman even more,it changes how you think You're
like whoa, if that can happen,either her skill is amazing or I
am not doing anything right.
But that's truly ego Like.
Why is it that just becauseshe's smaller, just because
she's a woman, that would meanthat she doesn't have the skill
to do that.
(23:50):
Sorry, sorry to go on to thetangent on that.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's one of the things that the outside of it is
considered to be very hard tomaybe understand.
Yeah, you can get a lot of slycomments about what's going on
in the day gym, but I would saythat for the benefit training in
other places, there will nearlyalways be a one or two women.
There are more in these clubsthan most other places but there
(24:17):
is nearly always someone andthe people I think actually the
guy that does the hardest time,the one that uses, but I
personally find it veryrewarding to train with women
because also the women aregenerally a little more mental.
Then the guys are usingespecially the young guys the
(24:38):
enormous amount of force to tryto run you down.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Well, they do manage.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But it's not necessarily helpful in the long
run.
And where then you see thewomen, then they very subtle and
they do some inversions andthey come on the back and they
do stuff that you've seen in theclass but you never seen
anybody.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, I'll say these two things.
I've taught some self-defensecourses, right, and I always
start my self-defense coursesespecially when there are a lot
of women in there by saying thatnothing, I can't teach anything
in four hours that's going tomake you be able to save your
life.
(25:18):
Necessarily, right, there'snothing I can tell you that's
going to help you like that, andanybody who tells you otherwise
is wrong.
I'm sorry.
The only way that you canreally learn how to protect
yourself is to train and to keepshowing up and training,
because, again, you don't knowwhere it's going to happen.
How it's going to happen.
(25:38):
Of course you can haveself-awareness.
You can not have yourheadphones in when you're
walking at night.
You can cross the road when youfeel anxious, all of those
things are great.
But at the end of the day, ifyou don't know how your own body
is going to react when you gointo that kind of fight or
flight situation, then nothing'sgoing to help you, and the only
(25:59):
thing that can help you withthat is to actually train it,
and sparring is the closest thatyou're going to get to that
kind of thing, and jujitsu isone of the few things where you
can spar every day.
So your body kind of startsreacting.
You understand how your bodyreacts and that's really helpful
for a lot of women.
(26:20):
So I won't say that.
And secondly, yeah, I see thisbecause I coach kids and adults
right.
So with kids they do compete.
Boys and girls compete togetheruntil I think 12?
It's 12 or 13.
But basically, once the boysstart putting on muscle, like
(26:42):
male muscle, like that maleadult muscle, that's when they
separate.
But at a young age everybody'sjust competing together, right,
and I see it when I see littlekids going and competing and the
girls are all just having fun,which is there to have fun, and
because the boys are alltraining with girls, they don't
(27:02):
know any different.
But I do think that if they'redoing that now, by the time they
become adults they will nothave that same kind of reaction
of oh it's a girl, she can't doanything to me.
Because, yeah, have you beensubmitted 50 times by a girl
when you're a little boy?
You're not going to have thatsame disrespect when you get to
(27:23):
be a man.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It really does make a difference.
But I also really just thinkit's about the community.
If you have a welcomingcommunity anywhere in the world,
you could go to a jujitsu gymand there are women training,
there are men training, they'reall training together.
There's no weirdness about itand it's an interesting thing
that we have that.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I have a personal theory a little bit.
I find the nicest guys and themost guys are actually the
purposeful.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And the one who's been like.
I've even talked about the A5girls.
They've been through a door andthey have a lot of.
They're really calm and I thinkit's the practice of actually
having been, because every fivegirls and every level is going
to have to be losing.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, oh, and then with what you were just saying,
the people who are the nicestusually the toughest.
I did think.
That's along the same lines asif you are a fighter, you're
probably the least likely personto actually get in a fight.
You know what I mean, Becausewhy?
But you're not.
(28:33):
You don't have the samereactions to somebody yelling at
you on the street or cursingyou out or whatever the case may
be.
You're not going to react thesame way because you're trained
for it.
You train, your body is trainedand, honestly, you know that
you really could hurt somebody.
And when you actually know thatyou can hurt somebody, your
(28:55):
reaction should I'm not sayingalways does, but should be to
not go into that situation or todo everything you can to
deescalate that situation, whichis why it would be greater if
more law enforcement practice tojust do honestly.
That's another story, though.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, but it takes you double thing about how long
you actually keep a sufficientchoke hold into a choke hold.
Normally will work in a fewseconds.
You don't keep it for 50minutes.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And then I just understand.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
that makes me think so yeah, save a few people, it
would save a few people and,honestly, a lot more than that
is just, yeah, your body'sreaction.
If somebody is attacking youand you can just throw them onto
the ground rather than justusing more excessive force,
shall we say, then it makes adifference.
(29:53):
And there actually are a fewmartial artists or chujitsu
coaches out there right now whoare pushing this and encouraging
it, and not in a negative way,not like a push people away way.
It's an inclusive thing, likewe want people to be better, we
want our community to be better,we want the people related to
(30:14):
our community to be better.
My dad has this thing that hadnothing to do with martial arts,
but he talked about has is atemporary autonomous zone, right
.
So he had a theory that youcould.
If you have people in the world, then you could go anywhere in
the world and find those samekind of like-minded people and
(30:38):
it would be peaceful.
It would be a peacefulgathering of people anywhere in
the world and that's a taz,right.
So when I started doing jujitsuand I was describing it to him
and explaining it to him, he'soh, you're just, you have a taz,
and it's true, because I'vetraveled to different places in
the world, I know you'vetraveled to different places in
(30:59):
the world and you've gone into ajujitsu gym and pretty much if
you, even with language barriers, you're in a good place, you're
in good company, you knowyou're safe as long as they're
at a safe training place.
And luckily with jujitsu is asmall enough community that we
(31:20):
try to weed out any of the badseeds and we do talk to each
other all over the world andsocial media has helped with
that.
It's an interesting sport to beable to go anywhere in the
world and feel welcomed.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I just hope that the listeners are all convinced by
it, but maybe they're not really.
So I think maybe we should goback to kind of fundamental
question.
The jujitsu has become a VJJ.
It's been like the chorus.
It's become very popular andmost lately we've had some quite
famous people starting it.
But it is no hiding that itinvolves very close contact.
(31:57):
There's a risk of injury.
Yeah, the top top is evenserious.
Why would anyone with theirright mind especially my age
hopeless more women maybe exposethemselves to this?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Great, that's good I can handle this question.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
So I'll say this, from many different aspects I
can recommend jujitsu.
One of the biggest ones that Irealized in the last couple of
years obviously was the mentalhealth aspect.
There are a lot of people thatsay that jujitsu is their
therapy, for I had a student theother day I'm quite jokingly
(32:42):
say the gym is my psych ward, ifyou think about COVID and when
people, a lot of people, did nothave physical touch right, a
lot of people and that affectsyour mental health.
So, yeah, you're doing amartial art and you're wrestling
with another person, but reallythat aspect of it, part of it,
(33:06):
is just the human touch aspect,which is something that people
need.
You need that human touch andit doesn't have to be an
affectionate way, it's a literalbody need and it's a body-mind
connection.
So when you have that touch,your mental health is in a
better place right off the bat.
(33:26):
But the bigger part of that,especially with jujitsu, that
I've noticed is there is such acommunity aspect that also
really boosts your mental health.
We hang out together, we becomefriends outside of the gym, we
go eat together, we go to eachother's birthday parties.
You have this community that isbuilt around you and you could
(33:49):
move to a new city, you couldmove to a new country and you
take that with you and youinstantly have a community that
really does surround you,protect you, take care of you.
Me personally recently wentthrough some grief, some really
enormous grief in my personallife and, honestly, the only
(34:11):
thing that kept me going wastraining and being around the
people that I knew.
I didn't have to speak words to, I didn't have to talk about
the grief I was going through.
I could feel the love justsurrounding me.
And it's crazy to think aboutbecause you sure are simulating
murder on each other, you'rerambling each other, you're
(34:33):
choking each other out, butnever have I been more happy in
my life than when you'resurrounded by people that you
love and care about, that aredoing that together.
I know it might seem crazy thatyou're going into a gym and
doing these things and that youend up in a better space, but I
really know that everybody Iknow that trains always is in a
(34:57):
better headspace after theytrain than before.
So, from that, mental healthand obviously body health, like
you're a little bit older, butman, you are strong and healthy
as a bull.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
No, I do think the core of the tactile element of
the dietary is important and hasa mental dimension.
Clearly I always it was onething, for instance.
I would do other things as well, like the roar of my eyes
sometimes, because it means thatyou're channeling in on a
different channel and you alsohave in your gym at least one
(35:36):
blind person and they're allperfectly well, and I think
actually blind women haveproblems hearing.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yes, she does yes.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
And it's all the texts, and I have a colleague
with her.
Oh, I just need a touch.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
She just needs to touch you once she touches you.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You should know if something's happening.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's another thing that I think, and she's also,
let's not forget, she's afour-foot-ten.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I mean, well, it's amazing.
It's amazing.
Then I also think we mentioneddifferent countries.
I would also mention that weare all young, from different
parts of town, absolutely, butwe all lose them meeting each
other in the basic UN space.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Absolutely, we're all exact.
Thank you for saying that.
That really is what it boilsdown to.
You have people of differentages, different races,
definitely different occupations.
Half of the time, I don't evenknow what people do, and
especially in a place likeWashington DC, where the second
(36:38):
question people ask you is whatyou do or who you know, which is
ridiculous.
Oh, it doesn't interest you.
You're like oh, what techniqueare we working on today?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's refreshing.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
It's refreshing to be just on base level with a lot
of other human beings in thesame space.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Sometimes you have to shake us up a little bit to get
down to yeah, and that's whereyou are in a kid's situation.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
We are just made up for bone inflection.
Yep Sink.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
We are all the same.
That happened this past weekend.
I was coaching a teenager andhe was really nervous and scared
and I said man, look at theseother kids.
They're just other kidstraining at another gym doing
the same thing you're doing.
They're just another body,there's nothing to be afraid of.
It's just another human beingand you just trust your training
(37:33):
, trust what you know you can do, and just go in and do it.
And I think that on a baselevel, that is important, but
from a self-defense aspect,that's even more important.
You have to know what your bodycan physically do, and if you
don't, then you're walkingaround in this vessel that you
don't know how it actuallyoperates, and I think that
(37:53):
you're just so can really changethat for people.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
So I think we are coming to an end.
Is there any advice that youwould like to give to listeners
about how did you go aboutpicking up Jiu-Jitsu?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
My best advice is to look up with Jiu-Jitsu Academy
in your area and usually ifyou're in a bigger metropolitan
area, there should be enoughJiu-Jitsu jams that you can find
one that you feel comfortablein.
So don't just settle.
Don't go into one place If youdon't feel like that's your
(38:31):
family.
Those are your people.
Try another one, because theworst thing that you have when
you start and you don't enjoy it, then it's pointless.
So find the place that you feelcomfortable.
There are places for everybody.
I really believe that.
But just try them yourself.
And if you're a woman, if youare somebody who does not
(38:56):
necessarily fit into a certaincategory or somebody who feels
uncomfortable in othersituations, talk to the coaches,
because they really haveexperience almost everything and
they can help you.
They can talk to you about whatthey want to do, what you
should be doing, theirrecommendations for who you
should train with.
(39:17):
They want you to feel safe andthey want you to feel protected
and they want you to learn.
So talk to them.
Really, I really encouragepeople right off the bat to talk
to their coaches.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Is there anybody who might think you choose too much
for them, as they can try?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I do think that for some people, maybe full group
classes might not be the way togo.
If you have very specificthings that you're struggling
with that might not work in agroup setting, talk to them
about maybe doing privatelessons or, honestly, just going
and talking to the coaches.
I can't answer for all thecoaches out there, but I can say
(39:56):
that I've had people come inand talk to me and usually we
find a way that they can train.
Whether they change who they'retraining with or how they're
training, there's usually a waythat they can train and that
they can learn and they can getto the place that they want to
be.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Is there anything else you would like to add?
How can people reach you?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I just want to add that I'm glad that people are
listening to this.
I'm really glad that this is agrowing.
I love that I'm able to be afemale coach, training kids,
women, men, everything inbetween and encouraging people
to just grow as human beings andgrow as a community and help
(40:41):
each other out.
I love seeing how closelypeople take care of each other
after doing this work.
You can reach me on Instagramor social media.
My handle is JinjaNinjaBjj.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I'm like G-I-N-J-A-N-I-N-J-A-B-J-J.
Ah, why'd I write it?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Thanks for the great women in the world with the
biggest heart.
Oh, thank you Say.
Your practice Cheers son.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Thank you for joining us for Wellness Musketeers.
Tune in for upcoming episodesto gain the tools to improve
your health, work performanceand live with a greater
understanding of the world weexperience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review and share this
recording with your family,friends and colleagues.
You can make a contributionthrough the link provided in our
(41:34):
program notes to allow thispodcast to grow, let us know
what you need to learn to helpyou live your best life.
Send your questions and ideasfor future episodes to
davidm-liss at gmailcom.
Hi, I'm David Liss, a DC-based consultant and
journalist, your host for thisseries of podcasts, wellness
Musketeers, where we willdiscuss a wide range of topics
in the field of health, wellnessand fitness, with some current
events thrown in as well.
Your host for today's episodeis Kettle Veeting, one of the
Wellness Musketeers team.
(00:28):
Kettle has worked at theInternational Monetary Fund as
an economist for many years andis also a lifelong martial
artist, a black belt inTaekwondo and, most recently,
practicing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi, this is Kettle Veeting.
In this episode of WellnessMusketeers, we feature an
Italian, saida Zena Durpe, alsoknown as Jinja Ninja, a
world-class athlete practicingBrazilian Jiu Jitsu is
derivative of Jiu Jitsu and Judo, a legendary old martial arts
(01:04):
with origins in China and Japan.
She is a brown belt and amaster Lloyd Irwin and Professor
Isaac Duly Jr in Washington DC.
We will discuss her coachingand competition style, as well
as her focus on the growth ofthe community.
She will touch on thechallenges with Jiu Jitsu and
(01:26):
why you might think aboutstarting practicing it for hell.
Fun or very competition.
The interview is quite personalto me.
In fact.
Saida is a truly exceptionalhuman being and extraordinary
talented instructor.
I experienced her talents asthe boldest students in the club
(01:47):
, mostly more than twice the ageof the other students, but I
have also seen how she has beensupportive of particularly women
at the club, including studentswho are in prayers.
In some way, she wasparticularly helpful to a group
of students helping us pullthrough the pandemic with big
(02:07):
online classes.
Saida, first of all, why JinjaNinja?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Thank you guys for shoving me today.
So Jinja Ninja was a nicknamethat I got when I was practicing
Taekwondo as a kid, because Ihave crazy wild red hair and it
stuck and luckily I went back tomartial arts later on in life,
so it just continued on throughthere.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Let's be a little more curious, saida what is
really Brazilian Jiu Jitsu,human jazz or something else?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a really interesting
martial art.
I usually describe it easily asif you combined Judo and all of
the throwing mechanics that yousee in Judo combined with some
American wrestling and I'm nottalking about WWE wrestling,
more high school collegeAmerican wrestling.
(03:06):
If you combined those two andthen added the submissions back
in so arm locks and chokes andleg locks, that type of thing
you'll have what Brazilian JiuJitsu is, and it is that it's
the combination of thosedifferent types of martial arts.
The interesting thing about itis it's a newer martial art as a
(03:28):
whole, but it comes fromcenturies of different martial
arts coming back together.
I think that the oldest form ofJudo was used on a battlefield
where people would throw peopleoff of their horses and then
attack them from there, andthere were a lot of submissions
during that time.
(03:49):
But over time they took thingsout to make it more of an
acceptable quote, unquotemartial arts that could be shown
off and even in the Olympics.
So it took a lot of submissionaspect away from it and then
when it was transferred toBrazilian Jiu Jitsu through
(04:09):
Mitsuyo Maeda, who traveled fromJapan to Brazil to teach it, he
reincorporated those aspectsinto it and then it's grown
since then.
So I think the coolest partabout it is it's constantly
evolving.
It's not a martial art, it'snot the rules aren't stuck.
It's evolution on a yearlybasis.
(04:32):
We see rule changes, we seepeople coming up with new moves
all the time.
This is never ending rabbithole and I think that you
experience that as well.
So a lot of people like todescribe it as like a human
chess game.
You're constantly trying to getto the point where you can get
somebody to submit, essentially,but it takes on the life of its
(04:54):
own of playing a game and youmove, they move, you move and
you get to the point where youcan say checkmate.
Basically.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So the Brazilian thing really doesn't come.
But many mention Brazilian JiuJitsu.
Some people think it's a dance.
People do feel like a dance,but the more the duo with the
practice was developing, thetype of Jiu Jitsu was developed
in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
That's correct.
Yeah, like I was mentioning,mitsuyo Maeda was a practitioner
in Judo in Japan and hetraveled to Brazil, I believe in
1970 and or something like that, so it's only about a century
old.
But he traveled and then heended up teaching a couple of
(05:38):
students who are the graces,which are probably the best
known family in Brazilian JiuJitsu in the world, and evolved
this.
Sorry, let's cut that realquick, you good, okay, so I'm
going to go right back into it.
So Mitsuyo Maeda away fromJapan, where he was practicing
(06:00):
Judo, and he traveled to Braziland ended up teaching a couple
of students who were part of theGracie family, which is
probably the best known familyin Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and they
evolved it together and thencontinued on from there and
there's offshoots and differentevolutions in different ways,
but the reason it's calledBrazilian Jiu Jitsu is because
(06:22):
the modern version of BrazilianJiu Jitsu evolved in Brazil.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Keeping it simple, yeah, I think actually what you
mentioned about the innovationsin Brazilian Jiu Jitsu something
that has really surprised me,compared to all of the other
martial arts been doing is theemerald of innovation on YouTube
, new moves being introduced.
It's very physical but also, inthat, very, very mental, so
(06:48):
it's joining both of them.
Can you tell me a little bitwho you actually got introduced
to Jiu Jitsu in the first placeand what motivated you to start
practicing?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
As I mentioned, I actually grewup in Egypt.
My parents were working thereand I was practicing Taipan Do
and I practiced it for a longtime.
But some martial arts,unfortunately in the US and
other places, have gottenwatered down.
So the way I was practicingTaipan Do in Egypt was pretty
(07:24):
hardcore in regards to how it'spracticed in a lot of other
parts of the world.
So when we moved back to the US, I tried to find a school and
it just seemed, yeah, like Isaid, watered down.
There was a whole lot oftatting.
Nobody wanted to get hit in theface.
I understand the reasons behindit, especially as a kid, but it
(07:46):
just didn't fulfill what I waslooking for.
So I ended up going to othersports, practicing other things,
did some other martial artsalong the way, but nothing
really grabbed me the same way,and then I actually just goes
into some other things.
But I ended up getting diagnosedin my early 20s with an
(08:08):
autoimmune illness and was toldthat I couldn't practice any
sports at all.
I was crazy because, as I'm avery active person, I couldn't
even do yoga, for instance,which was crazy.
So this was a like like a manyyears journey for me of going
through doctors and medicationsand crazy things like that.
(08:31):
But I actually ended up findingKebueira, which is also from
Brazil and it's a no contactmartial art, and I thought, oh,
maybe I could try this out,maybe it won't hurt me quite as
much.
So I ended up taking that onand I had some friends who did
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, who wouldcome and cross-train with us and
(08:54):
they ended up really trying toconvince me to do presenting
Jujitsu, not knowing about myillness or anything like that.
But what's crazy is I did endup taking it on, I tried it a
couple of times and my illnesssubsided and actually is in
remission, which, who knows.
(09:15):
The doctors like to disagreewith me on this, but I'm pretty
sure Jujitsu saved my life.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's pretty amazing, yeah.
So in a way, in a much lessdramatic way, I think I have a
similar person story.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I want to know about your story, Kela.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I am not a spring chicken.
I started five, six years agosomething like that.
Just two years ago, I startedwhat we call it.
Well, we practically call itorling.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
And after rolling, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
We started the International Finance
Corporation at lunchtime and itpicked up from there and now
I've been not doing as much asSeida, but I would say that,
together with other things I'mdoing, it's also kept me really
in good shape, and also all ofthe things, the ailments you get
(10:11):
when you're old age not onlyold age but backaches and all
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
It's really helping.
I think so.
So I can relate to your storyin a not as a dramatic way, but
I do think when you getsubmitted, sometimes it's
actually your twin partnerstretching your out.
That's what it's like.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
No, definitely you guys don't know Kettle
personally, but maybe you do.
You probably do actually.
But if that's donating as acoach and also as a training
partner and also as a fellow toJujutsu, it's interesting to
watch because a lot of peoplemight look at him and be like,
(10:55):
ok, he looks like a strong, bitolder guy.
I should be fine, I'm like 21.
I could take him and thenwatching him just really use his
skill and the precision of hismovement is fascinating because
a lot of people who know aboutJujutsu think about a smaller
(11:16):
woman being able to use it as aself-defense mechanism, because
there's a lot of scienceinvolved in Jujutsu.
There's a lot of using thepeddlix of motion and using
somebody else's weight againstthem, which I think is a
fascinating part of Jujutsu.
If you have a 120-pound girland you have a 170-pound
(11:41):
attacker, yes, she probably cantake him on if she's been
training.
But when you're actuallytraining and there's a 120-pound
girl and a 170-pound guy whoalso trains, it presents many of
you not so much, but it isfascinating that as you go up in
skill you actually start usingyour technique so much more
(12:05):
efficiently.
And same for you.
Maybe your knees don't workperfectly, so you use other
parts of your body.
There's always something elsethat you can understand how to
use more efficiently to make upfor whatever is lacking, and I
think that's a reallyinteresting way that it can be
used.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So what you mentioned then about I mean we mentioned
the physical benefits I wouldactually add on yes, it's a
mental benefit.
Yeah absolutely, and especiallywhen you're then talking about
the weight differences.
So I am now 170, but there areeasy young guys that 250.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
When they're on top of you.
You need to endure that and youneed to be able to control your
breathing.
So what are these things?
Actually?
The fact that even the best,the kids who practice now will
be submitted.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And the experience of submission in itself.
It's a kind of mental challengeand something to overcome.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
One thing that I haven't done I know that the
state is on my back and pushingmost partitions to actually do
is to compete and I haven't donethat and I would be very
curious about hearing about yourexperience with competition,
and I think also the businesswould be interested, because
(13:30):
this also goes in other sports.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
How do you prepare and what have you learned from
losing?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Interesting, great question.
That's a great question.
I'm actually going to walk youback for a second Because, for
the listeners involved, I'd justlike to say I described
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as acombination of Judo and
wrestling with submissions.
But you just have to imaginethat you're on the ground and
(13:58):
there's a person either at leastyour side, that's not larger
trying to attack your limbs ortry to choke you from the band
and you're struggling to get outand you're trying to, at the
same time, attack them andyou're going back and forth in
this and it really is a mentalaspect to just controlling your
(14:21):
breathing, just controlling yourheadspace and unlike, I think,
at least having practiced othermartial arts unlike when you're
getting kicked or punched in thehead, you're feeling your
entire body going through thesemotions, but you do have time to
think about it.
When you're getting kicked orpunched in the head, you're just
(14:43):
reacting.
It's a very reactionary motionwhen you're halfway through
being choked and you're like Ineed to pull this arm on, move
me and turn and face them andget a knee in between their legs
so that I can move past themand come back on top.
There's this strategy, thisconstant rolling strategy, going
through your line and it's avery interesting part of it.
(15:06):
So, going back to thecompetition part, as a coach, my
feedback to students is thatyou train with a lot of the same
people every day.
They get to learn how you move.
You get to learn how they move.
You guys aren't trying to killeach other, you're trying to
(15:27):
help each other get better andunderstand the sport better.
And even when you go a littlebit harder, you're still in this
participatory sport togetherand you're learning from each
other and helping each other.
So what happens is that you getinto a repetition and even if
you go train at another schoolor you travel and you cross
(15:49):
train somewhere else, you stillget into using those motions.
The same way, you understandhow your breathing works, how
everything works, but that's notthe same as being put A in a
real life situation where youwould really need to use it.
That's the ultimate test is ifyou do get attacked or if you're
trying to defend somebody whois being attacked when you
(16:12):
actually are using these skills,which has come into play for me
only once in the nine yearsthat I've been practicing
jiu-jitsu.
But besides that, you don'tknow how you really will react
and when you're doing, let's say, taekwondo or karate or boxing
(16:32):
or even Muay Thai, somethinglike that you can only spar once
a week because your body can'ttake that.
You can practice every day, butyou can't spar.
You can't go hard every day,but jiu-jitsu you can actually
spar every single day becauseyou're rest-blaning, you're
going through these motions andunless you have some major
(16:53):
injury, you can actually pushthe pace almost every single day
.
So you don't know how you'rereally going to react until
you're in a situation where youhave to and that's not trained.
So I like to encourage people toat least try competition for
(17:13):
that reason, because youradrenaline spikes, you get a lot
of people, get the jitters, alot of people get super nervous.
I've seen kids crying in themiddle of their matches, and not
because they're hurt, justbecause their emotions go
haywire.
It might be the most calm forsome when they're training and
(17:33):
then when they're competing,it's a completely different
thing.
Or vice versa, it might besomebody who every day in
training is crazy and thensuddenly is very calm when
they're in this other situation.
So I think, besides using itfor a real world situation,
competition is the closest youcan get to understanding whether
(17:54):
your jujitsu really does ordoesn't work, and that's why I
think it's really important toyou.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Thank you, that's very interesting.
Anything about your operationfor the super heights?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, I think you're asking more, just about how I
prepare Exactly what's the ingeneral.
Yeah, and it definitely issomething that has changed over
time.
You start understanding.
It's similar to training howyou understand how your
breathing works, you start.
Everybody has to have their ownkind of ritual or routine when
(18:30):
it comes to competing.
Some people won't train at allthe week before.
Some people want to train theday of.
It's weird that everybody worksa little bit differently.
For me, I usually train a lotharder until about a week before
the tournament and then I rampit down and just drill a lot the
(18:51):
week before.
I focus a lot with our studentsand myself on game plan.
So to give one is like yourperfect situation.
What would happen right?
It's not if this is going tohappen.
If this is going to happen,it's just in a perfect world we
would shake hands and this iswhat would happen, right.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
That's how you finish a match in 30 seconds.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, so if you can work through your game plan,
even if it's just in your headjust over and over.
I focus a lot on routine, sorather than eating something
special or different or anythinglike that, I try to keep eating
the same thing every dayleading up to a tournament, and
(19:35):
then the day of is the samething.
In addition, I guess, if I knowI'm going to compete at night,
I train at night leading up toit.
If I know I'm going to becompeting in the morning, I
train in the morning.
Those kinds of things help.
Different playlists that you canlisten to will help modulate
how your body reacts, especiallyif you do it consistently.
(19:58):
And then I have a couple offunny things that I do.
I have wherever I go compete,if I'm traveling, I take my last
gold medal Because I feel likeit brings on the next gold medal
.
That's just the first of allthings, but I also have a couple
of little things from my dad,from my sister, from friends
(20:19):
that I take with me and havethis little collection that I
set up the night before.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's a very interesting thing.
I wonder if we can move toanother area.
This is most traditionally maledominated sport.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And the question comes really it's an important
question about how is it to be awoman in this environment.
But for the listeners who don'tknow, but see if they're
swimming, at least in trainingwe are training it's mixed.
I don't know where, any placeswhere they really separate.
So in competition it'sseparated, generally at least,
yeah, but in training it's mixed, Correct.
(20:58):
But that dimension tells us alittle bit about that.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, thank you for asking about that.
It is overall.
Combat sports in general arevery much dominated, mostly by
men.
Overall, I think that Brazilianjiu-jitsu has expanded and it
has opened a lot of doors forwomen to be more evolved, but
(21:22):
it's a constant push from thewomen that are in the sport to
be doing that.
I don't really treat it anydifferently.
I coach men and women and Ithink what actually takes away
from it is when you separate ittoo much.
So I know that they're femaleonly events that happen and I
(21:43):
think that those are importantjust because there are a lot of
gyms that only have one or twowomen that train there.
So you're not used to it, youdon't get that feeling, you
don't get that camaraderie thathappens when there are a lot of
women.
We have a lot of women thattrain with us now and it's not
just because there is a femalecoach.
(22:04):
I'm sure it helps that I'mthere, but it's all about how
the community grows.
If a gym welcomes women andencourages them and pushes them
and like for a woman to walkinto a martial arts gym, and
especially one where you'rephysically like on top of each
(22:25):
other, sweating in each other'sbases, is already.
She already won A battle.
Just walking in the door, youknow what I mean.
For anybody that's hard, but fora small woman, a regular sized
woman, for any woman to walkinto that kind of environment is
already hard, right.
So it's not like it's womenthat are walking in there who
(22:47):
don't want to be there.
They want to be there, whetherit's because they had an
experience that made them thinkI need the self defense aspect
of this, or if it's women whoare just tough girls, who are
tomboy or they did other martialarts and they want to.
They want to do it, they wantto really push themselves.
(23:08):
Either way, if you walk into anenvironment where there are no
other women, it's going to behard, right.
So I think having women bringother women in and then having
men who are not scared to trainwith women Because again that
goes back to the ego part Likewhen you're submitted by a woman
(23:30):
or a smaller woman even more,it changes how you think You're
like whoa, if that can happen,either her skill is amazing or I
am not doing anything right.
But that's truly ego Like.
Why is it that just becauseshe's smaller, just because
she's a woman, that would meanthat she doesn't have the skill
to do that.
(23:50):
Sorry, sorry to go on to thetangent on that.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's one of the things that the outside of it is
considered to be very hard tomaybe understand.
Yeah, you can get a lot of slycomments about what's going on
in the day gym, but I would saythat for the benefit training in
other places, there will nearlyalways be a one or two women.
There are more in these clubsthan most other places but there
(24:17):
is nearly always someone andthe people I think actually the
guy that does the hardest time,the one that uses, but I
personally find it veryrewarding to train with women
because also the women aregenerally a little more mental.
Then the guys are usingespecially the young guys the
(24:38):
enormous amount of force to tryto run you down.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Well, they do manage.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But it's not necessarily helpful in the long
run.
And where then you see thewomen, then they very subtle and
they do some inversions andthey come on the back and they
do stuff that you've seen in theclass but you never seen
anybody.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, I'll say these two things.
I've taught some self-defensecourses, right, and I always
start my self-defense coursesespecially when there are a lot
of women in there by saying thatnothing, I can't teach anything
in four hours that's going tomake you be able to save your
life.
(25:18):
Necessarily, right, there'snothing I can tell you that's
going to help you like that, andanybody who tells you otherwise
is wrong.
I'm sorry.
The only way that you canreally learn how to protect
yourself is to train and to keepshowing up and training,
because, again, you don't knowwhere it's going to happen.
How it's going to happen.
(25:38):
Of course you can haveself-awareness.
You can not have yourheadphones in when you're
walking at night.
You can cross the road when youfeel anxious, all of those
things are great.
But at the end of the day, ifyou don't know how your own body
is going to react when you gointo that kind of fight or
flight situation, then nothing'sgoing to help you, and the only
(25:59):
thing that can help you withthat is to actually train it,
and sparring is the closest thatyou're going to get to that
kind of thing, and jujitsu isone of the few things where you
can spar every day.
So your body kind of startsreacting.
You understand how your bodyreacts and that's really helpful
for a lot of women.
(26:20):
So I won't say that.
And secondly, yeah, I see thisbecause I coach kids and adults
right.
So with kids they do compete.
Boys and girls compete togetheruntil I think 12?
It's 12 or 13.
But basically, once the boysstart putting on muscle, like
(26:42):
male muscle, like that maleadult muscle, that's when they
separate.
But at a young age everybody'sjust competing together, right,
and I see it when I see littlekids going and competing and the
girls are all just having fun,which is there to have fun, and
because the boys are alltraining with girls, they don't
(27:02):
know any different.
But I do think that if they'redoing that now, by the time they
become adults they will nothave that same kind of reaction
of oh it's a girl, she can't doanything to me.
Because, yeah, have you beensubmitted 50 times by a girl
when you're a little boy?
You're not going to have thatsame disrespect when you get to
(27:23):
be a man.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It really does make a difference.
But I also really just thinkit's about the community.
If you have a welcomingcommunity anywhere in the world,
you could go to a jujitsu gymand there are women training,
there are men training, they'reall training together.
There's no weirdness about itand it's an interesting thing
that we have that.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I have a personal theory a little bit.
I find the nicest guys and themost guys are actually the
purposeful.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And the one who's been like.
I've even talked about the A5girls.
They've been through a door andthey have a lot of.
They're really calm and I thinkit's the practice of actually
having been, because every fivegirls and every level is going
to have to be losing.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, oh, and then with what you were just saying,
the people who are the nicestusually the toughest.
I did think.
That's along the same lines asif you are a fighter, you're
probably the least likely personto actually get in a fight.
You know what I mean, Becausewhy?
But you're not.
(28:33):
You don't have the samereactions to somebody yelling at
you on the street or cursingyou out or whatever the case may
be.
You're not going to react thesame way because you're trained
for it.
You train, your body is trainedand, honestly, you know that
you really could hurt somebody.
And when you actually know thatyou can hurt somebody, your
(28:55):
reaction should I'm not sayingalways does, but should be to
not go into that situation or todo everything you can to
deescalate that situation, whichis why it would be greater if
more law enforcement practice tojust do honestly.
That's another story, though.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, but it takes you double thing about how long
you actually keep a sufficientchoke hold into a choke hold.
Normally will work in a fewseconds.
You don't keep it for 50minutes.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And then I just understand.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
that makes me think so yeah, save a few people, it
would save a few people and,honestly, a lot more than that
is just, yeah, your body'sreaction.
If somebody is attacking youand you can just throw them onto
the ground rather than justusing more excessive force,
shall we say, then it makes adifference.
(29:53):
And there actually are a fewmartial artists or chujitsu
coaches out there right now whoare pushing this and encouraging
it, and not in a negative way,not like a push people away way.
It's an inclusive thing, likewe want people to be better, we
want our community to be better,we want the people related to
(30:14):
our community to be better.
My dad has this thing that hadnothing to do with martial arts,
but he talked about has is atemporary autonomous zone, right
.
So he had a theory that youcould.
If you have people in the world, then you could go anywhere in
the world and find those samekind of like-minded people and
(30:38):
it would be peaceful.
It would be a peacefulgathering of people anywhere in
the world and that's a taz,right.
So when I started doing jujitsuand I was describing it to him
and explaining it to him, he'soh, you're just, you have a taz,
and it's true, because I'vetraveled to different places in
the world, I know you'vetraveled to different places in
(30:59):
the world and you've gone into ajujitsu gym and pretty much if
you, even with language barriers, you're in a good place, you're
in good company, you knowyou're safe as long as they're
at a safe training place.
And luckily with jujitsu is asmall enough community that we
(31:20):
try to weed out any of the badseeds and we do talk to each
other all over the world andsocial media has helped with
that.
It's an interesting sport to beable to go anywhere in the
world and feel welcomed.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I just hope that the listeners are all convinced by
it, but maybe they're not really.
So I think maybe we should goback to kind of fundamental
question.
The jujitsu has become a VJJ.
It's been like the chorus.
It's become very popular andmost lately we've had some quite
famous people starting it.
But it is no hiding that itinvolves very close contact.
(31:57):
There's a risk of injury.
Yeah, the top top is evenserious.
Why would anyone with theirright mind especially my age
hopeless more women maybe exposethemselves to this?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Great, that's good I can handle this question.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
So I'll say this, from many different aspects I
can recommend jujitsu.
One of the biggest ones that Irealized in the last couple of
years obviously was the mentalhealth aspect.
There are a lot of people thatsay that jujitsu is their
therapy, for I had a student theother day I'm quite jokingly
(32:42):
say the gym is my psych ward, ifyou think about COVID and when
people, a lot of people, did nothave physical touch right, a
lot of people and that affectsyour mental health.
So, yeah, you're doing amartial art and you're wrestling
with another person, but reallythat aspect of it, part of it,
(33:06):
is just the human touch aspect,which is something that people
need.
You need that human touch andit doesn't have to be an
affectionate way, it's a literalbody need and it's a body-mind
connection.
So when you have that touch,your mental health is in a
better place right off the bat.
(33:26):
But the bigger part of that,especially with jujitsu, that
I've noticed is there is such acommunity aspect that also
really boosts your mental health.
We hang out together, we becomefriends outside of the gym, we
go eat together, we go to eachother's birthday parties.
You have this community that isbuilt around you and you could
(33:49):
move to a new city, you couldmove to a new country and you
take that with you and youinstantly have a community that
really does surround you,protect you, take care of you.
Me personally recently wentthrough some grief, some really
enormous grief in my personallife and, honestly, the only
(34:11):
thing that kept me going wastraining and being around the
people that I knew.
I didn't have to speak words to, I didn't have to talk about
the grief I was going through.
I could feel the love justsurrounding me.
And it's crazy to think aboutbecause you sure are simulating
murder on each other, you'rerambling each other, you're
(34:33):
choking each other out, butnever have I been more happy in
my life than when you'resurrounded by people that you
love and care about, that aredoing that together.
I know it might seem crazy thatyou're going into a gym and
doing these things and that youend up in a better space, but I
really know that everybody Iknow that trains always is in a
(34:57):
better headspace after theytrain than before.
So, from that, mental healthand obviously body health, like
you're a little bit older, butman, you are strong and healthy
as a bull.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
No, I do think the core of the tactile element of
the dietary is important and hasa mental dimension.
Clearly I always it was onething, for instance.
I would do other things as well, like the roar of my eyes
sometimes, because it means thatyou're channeling in on a
different channel and you alsohave in your gym at least one
(35:36):
blind person and they're allperfectly well, and I think
actually blind women haveproblems hearing.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yes, she does yes.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
And it's all the texts, and I have a colleague
with her.
Oh, I just need a touch.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
She just needs to touch you once she touches you.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You should know if something's happening.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's another thing that I think, and she's also,
let's not forget, she's afour-foot-ten.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I mean, well, it's amazing.
It's amazing.
Then I also think we mentioneddifferent countries.
I would also mention that weare all young, from different
parts of town, absolutely, butwe all lose them meeting each
other in the basic UN space.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Absolutely, we're all exact.
Thank you for saying that.
That really is what it boilsdown to.
You have people of differentages, different races,
definitely different occupations.
Half of the time, I don't evenknow what people do, and
especially in a place likeWashington DC, where the second
(36:38):
question people ask you is whatyou do or who you know, which is
ridiculous.
Oh, it doesn't interest you.
You're like oh, what techniqueare we working on today?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's refreshing.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
It's refreshing to be just on base level with a lot
of other human beings in thesame space.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Sometimes you have to shake us up a little bit to get
down to yeah, and that's whereyou are in a kid's situation.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
We are just made up for bone inflection.
Yep Sink.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
We are all the same.
That happened this past weekend.
I was coaching a teenager andhe was really nervous and scared
and I said man, look at theseother kids.
They're just other kidstraining at another gym doing
the same thing you're doing.
They're just another body,there's nothing to be afraid of.
It's just another human beingand you just trust your training
(37:33):
, trust what you know you can do, and just go in and do it.
And I think that on a baselevel, that is important, but
from a self-defense aspect,that's even more important.
You have to know what your bodycan physically do, and if you
don't, then you're walkingaround in this vessel that you
don't know how it actuallyoperates, and I think that
(37:53):
you're just so can really changethat for people.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
So I think we are coming to an end.
Is there any advice that youwould like to give to listeners
about how did you go aboutpicking up Jiu-Jitsu?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
My best advice is to look up with Jiu-Jitsu Academy
in your area and usually ifyou're in a bigger metropolitan
area, there should be enoughJiu-Jitsu jams that you can find
one that you feel comfortablein.
So don't just settle.
Don't go into one place If youdon't feel like that's your
(38:31):
family.
Those are your people.
Try another one, because theworst thing that you have when
you start and you don't enjoy it, then it's pointless.
So find the place that you feelcomfortable.
There are places for everybody.
I really believe that.
But just try them yourself.
And if you're a woman, if youare somebody who does not
(38:56):
necessarily fit into a certaincategory or somebody who feels
uncomfortable in othersituations, talk to the coaches,
because they really haveexperience almost everything and
they can help you.
They can talk to you about whatthey want to do, what you
should be doing, theirrecommendations for who you
should train with.
(39:17):
They want you to feel safe andthey want you to feel protected
and they want you to learn.
So talk to them.
Really, I really encouragepeople right off the bat to talk
to their coaches.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Is there anybody who might think you choose too much
for them, as they can try?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I do think that for some people, maybe full group
classes might not be the way togo.
If you have very specificthings that you're struggling
with that might not work in agroup setting, talk to them
about maybe doing privatelessons or, honestly, just going
and talking to the coaches.
I can't answer for all thecoaches out there, but I can say
(39:56):
that I've had people come inand talk to me and usually we
find a way that they can train.
Whether they change who they'retraining with or how they're
training, there's usually a waythat they can train and that
they can learn and they can getto the place that they want to
be.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Is there anything else you would like to add?
How can people reach you?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I just want to add that I'm glad that people are
listening to this.
I'm really glad that this is agrowing.
I love that I'm able to be afemale coach, training kids,
women, men, everything inbetween and encouraging people
to just grow as human beings andgrow as a community and help
(40:41):
each other out.
I love seeing how closelypeople take care of each other
after doing this work.
You can reach me on Instagramor social media.
My handle is JinjaNinjaBjj.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I'm like G-I-N-J-A-N-I-N-J-A-B-J-J.
Ah, why'd I write it?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Thanks for the great women in the world with the
biggest heart.
Oh, thank you Say.
Your practice Cheers son.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Thank you for joining us for Wellness Musketeers.
Tune in for upcoming episodesto gain the tools to improve
your health, work performanceand live with a greater
understanding of the world weexperience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review and share this
recording with your family,friends and colleagues.
You can make a contributionthrough the link provided in our
(41:34):
program notes to allow thispodcast to grow, let us know
what you need to learn to helpyou live your best life.
Send your questions and ideasfor future episodes to
davidm-liss at gmailcom.
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