August 27, 2025 • 56 mins
Ever wondered why some diets work while others fail? Why nutrition advice seems to constantly contradict itself? Or why those GLP-1 medications everyone's talking about are causing such a stir in the wellness world?
In this enlightening conversation with Mayo Clinic nutrition expert Tara Schmidt, we dive deep into the complex realities of weight management, exploring everything from persistent nutrition myths to revolutionary medication approaches. Tara brings refreshing clarity to topics often clouded by misinformation, sharing insights that challenge conventional thinking while remaining grounded in evidence.
The discussion tackles head-on the uncomfortable truth about weight stigma in healthcare settings, where patients often face their most damaging experiences of bias. We explore the concept of "food noise"—that constant mental chatter about food that many experience—and how newer medications are helping some people quiet those thoughts for the first time. Throughout, Tara emphasizes the importance of individualized approaches, noting that adherence to any dietary pattern matters far more than which specific diet you choose.
Perhaps most valuably, Tara offers practical guidance rooted in simplicity rather than sensation. She suggests focusing on what you can add to your diet rather than what to eliminate, considering how your environment shapes your choices, and recognizing the power of small, consistent changes over time. Her approach reminds us that sustainable wellness isn't about perfection but about finding patterns that work within your unique life circumstances.
Whether you're curious about intermittent fasting, wondering about hydration guidelines, or simply trying to navigate contradictory nutrition headlines, this episode provides thoughtful perspective from someone who's dedicated her career to helping people build healthier relationships with food. Subscribe now and join our growing community of listeners seeking evidence-based approaches to wellness that acknowledge both science and lived experience.
Tara Schmidt/Mayo Clinic Resources:
- Tara Schmidt - LinkedIn
- Mayo Clinic Diet’s homepage - Weight Loss Program – The Mayo Clinic Diet
- Tara Schmidt, Host - Mayo Clinic on Nutrition Podcast Series - Apple Podcasts
A few of Tara's most listened-to episodes:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
"Aussie" Mike James (00:06):
Hello and welcome back to another episode
of Wellness Musketeers.
I'm Aussie, mike James, joinedby my co-host, our medical
expert, dr Richard Kennedy.
Hello, richard, how are you,mike, and everyone, our
economist, ketel Vitting Hello.
David Liss (00:22):
Ketel.
"Aussie" Mike James (00:22):
Hi, and our fitness trainer and man about
town.
Last but not least, david List.
Welcome, david.
Hey, it's a pleasure to be hereToday.
We're thrilled to welcome aspecial guest, tara Schmidt.
(00:45):
A key role in shapingevidence-based, compassionate
and inclusive wellnessstrategies for individuals
across the country.
She hosts the widely respectedMayo Clinic on Nutrition, where
she demystifies complex healthtrends, debunks diet myths and
champions sustainable habitsover quick fixes.
Welcome, tara, terrific to haveyou with us today.
Tara Schmidt (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me everyone.
"Aussie" Mike James (01:08):
Pleasure.
Tara joins us today to tacklethe big questions GLP, commonly
known as trade names as Wegovyand Ozempic, etc.
Glp medications, diet myths,weight bias and what really
works for better health.
So if you're ready to rethinkyour plate and your relationship
with food, this conversation'sfor you.
Let's get right into it.
(01:29):
So just to start off, tara,what originally drew you to
nutrition as a career and whathas kept you involved with it?
Tara Schmidt (01:37):
I've been interested in nutrition since
childhood, so I don't know ifthat makes me smart or weird, or
just I was the kid like readingthe nutrition facts on a cereal
box next to my sister, who wasolder, who was doing the mazes.
I'm also a product of the 90sand that was pretty ugly diet
(02:00):
culture at the time, so I thinkthat fascinated me.
I was a tall kid, which in mymind meant big, which was untrue
, but that's not how I felt.
So I rolled with it.
I got my bachelor's and I lovedit.
I got my master's, or I did getmy master's.
Eventually.
I did my internship.
I loved it.
So I've just kind of stuck withit ever since.
"Aussie" Mike James (02:21):
Terrific.
Well, what are some of the mostpersistent nutrition myths
you've encountered over the timethat are even around, say today
, in 2025?
Tara Schmidt (02:30):
The ones that I lose sleep at night over are.
Fruit has too much sugar,grains or wheat is inherently
bad, and I think more so the useof the phrase or words like
poison and toxic when we'retalking about foods.
I'm not saying that these foodsare healthy, of course, but
(02:50):
those words bother me a littlebit, especially if someone has
like a cocktail next to themwhich includes a toxin of itself
and then they're calling youknow, someone's kids cheesy
rabbits toxic or poisonous.
"Aussie" Mike James (03:04):
Has that just come over the last couple
of years?
I've noticed that too, I thinkso.
Social media, unfortunately, andnow you're a child of the 90s
but we're quite a bit older thanthat, the three of us and back
when weight loss became a bigissue and a commercial issue as
well I think about the 70s, 60s,70s it was pretty much just a
(03:24):
case of calories in, caloriesout.
That's what everything wasfocused on.
Does that still pertain, orobviously we're missing the full
picture?
But does that calories in,calories out still maintain a
proper perspective?
Tara Schmidt (03:37):
Yeah, I like to say the math is still the math,
but it's a lot more complex thanthat, right?
So the complex of where do youlive, how do you eat, what's
your body type like, how do youremotions play into this, how
does your health play into this?
So, yeah, I have a physicianthat I work with who said you
(03:58):
know, I can make anyone loseweight.
They're going to come into thehospital and I'm going to give
them an NG tube or a nasogastrictube and just tube feed them a
certain number of calories.
It's going to be less than whatthey need and guess what?
I've got the best diet on themarkets.
The math is true, but of coursewe don't live in hospital rooms
with NG tubes.
If you're privileged enough notto be living in that scenario,
(04:21):
it's more complex.
"Aussie" Mike James (04:25):
But at the end of the day, it's just math.
Okay, right, well, and how doyou respond to when someone asks
you the typical party questionor wherever you're at, I'm sure,
when they know your background,what's the best diet?
Tara Schmidt (04:35):
The one that you'll do.
So if we're talking aboutweight loss, we talk about the
percent adherence.
So we always have diet A versus, go all the way down to Z which
one's better, which one's thebest, which one has the best
outcomes.
And what we know is that youwill lose weight.
If you're in a calorie deficit,like we talked about, you will
(04:56):
lose weight, but whether youkeep that weight off or not is
unrelated to the diet and morerelated to your percent
adherence to whatever diet youselected.
That would be kind of theconversation related to weight
loss In terms of best diets forhealth.
There are many of them, but thecommon denominators, when we
look at DASH and Mediterranean,tend to be things like it's
(05:18):
plant forward, it's high infruits and vegetables.
It's limited in ultra-processedfood.
It has omega-3 fatty acids orother healthy fats in it.
It's limited in added sugar.
So and that's a good news rightwhen we have common
denominators that we know havebeen proven, we don't have to
keep fighting over.
You know which one made thelist this year.
"Aussie" Mike James (05:39):
Okay, I'll hand you over the kettle for
some questions about the commonweight loss medications and
metabolic health.
Ketil Hviding (05:47):
Since you are so kind to give me the word that I
can speak, I would actually liketo kind of tell you that I had
a lab that, since I passed awayand your lab are constantly
hungry and I would feed that labthe same thing basically every
day, because that's the only waywe could keep the elite down.
(06:07):
So I, you know, I said you know, maybe my wife could give me
food like that and therefore Icould lose weight, but it never
really worked.
Tara Schmidt (06:16):
Adherence, remember adherence.
"Aussie" Mike James (06:19):
If you start chasing cars, we're going
gonna be worried about over time.
Ketil Hviding (06:22):
But you know, I can, I can assure you the lab,
if you actually put a lab nextto like a big container of food,
the lab would literally eatitself to death my golden
retriever would do the same yeah, it's the same.
It's the same thing, okay, solet's then talk about the big
elephant in the room.
So it's a g whatP and it's anice technical term for it.
(06:46):
It's Ozempic, Wegovy andMounjaro, for instance, and a
few others coming on the market.
It's a big business as well andseems actually to work.
We do.
There's a big buzz about it.
How should we really thinkabout this revolution?
Can you repeat that?
I'm sorry you cut out for me.
Tara Schmidt (07:03):
How should we really think about this
revolution?
Can you repeat that?
I'm sorry you cut out for me.
Ketil Hviding (07:05):
How should we really think about it?
Is it really a positiverevolution?
It's something that's going tosolve all our issues and the
obesity epidemic around theworld not only the United States
, unfortunately, oh you know,it's everywhere we can go that
far right.
Tara Schmidt (07:22):
You lost me at the end there.
We can go that far right.
You lost me at the end there.
I think that these medicationsare absolutely going to be
life-changing and life-savingfor many people.
I think that we've seen weightloss percentages that we were
previously only seeing withbariatric surgery, and bariatric
surgery is still out there andit's still a good option for
many people.
(07:42):
But I think this is going to bemuch higher in terms of
accessibility.
We'll see about cost over thelong term and kind of the return
on investment.
But I think that these arelet's at least say that they're
a fabulous benefit that we'vebeen waiting a very long time
for.
David Liss (08:00):
Will these medications work for everyone,
or are there some parts of thepopulation that they just won't
work with for some reason?
Tara Schmidt (08:07):
A lot of times what we'll do is we will assess
your weight loss at the end of,let's say, 12 weeks and make
sure that you are considered aresponder.
So a non-responder would besomeone who's been taking the
appropriate dosage for threemonths and did not lose 5% of
their total body weight.
I think that that's a smallerpercentage because these drugs
(08:29):
are pretty powerful, Becausethey work in the brain, they
work in the gut, they're helpingthe liver, they're helping the
pancreas.
So these are pretty powerfuldrugs.
We have dual agonists and nowwe have triple agonists coming,
more and more coming.
So I think there's a smallpercentage of people who would
be considered non-responders.
But the good thing is that atthat 12-week appointment a
prescribing provider wouldlikely just try a different
(08:51):
medication, of course, if thatwas still safe and appropriate
for you.
Ketil Hviding (08:55):
Can you explain what you meant by dual and
single agonist?
Tara Schmidt (08:58):
Yeah, so dual agonist.
Think of two drugs working foryou to help to decrease appetite
, increase satiety, slow downthe gut and help manage blood
sugar.
Triple agonists are adding athird let's call it ingredient
that's going to help.
Ketil Hviding (09:16):
So those are ingredients in the drug, or is
it actually taking one GPL1together with another, maybe
drug for diabetes or somethinglike that?
Tara Schmidt (09:27):
Nope, they're more like ingredients.
Now some people do combine,let's say bariatric surgery plus
a medication, but the tripleagonists are just a different
class of medications.
Ketil Hviding (09:37):
Okay, sorry.
David Liss (09:41):
Is Zepbound a triple agonists?
Tara Schmidt (09:43):
Yeah, like chizepatide.
Ketil Hviding (09:44):
Yeah sure I actually.
You know, as we all probablyknow, quite a few people who are
on these drugs.
It seems like the side effectcan be actually quite strong.
But I would actually challengeyou and say maybe those are the
effects.
You know you don't feel good inmeat, so it really punishes you
.
Tara Schmidt (10:02):
I agree that it's part of it.
So there are some physicianswho will prescribe these
medications and at the same timeprescribe an anti-emetic and
anti-nausea medication, becausewe know that people struggle
with nausea.
And there are other physicianswho say I'm not giving you an
anti-emetic, your nausea isessentially part of the
mechanism of action of this drugand of course there's a
(10:25):
learning curve for portions andfrequency of eating.
But yeah, I agree with you.
Hopefully it's not a punishmentbut, as with bariatric surgery,
I kind of tell people likethere will be a learning curve
for you to understand whathunger feels like for you, what
fullness or satiety feels likefor you.
And some of them are juststraight up side effects of the
drug or of the weight lossthemselves.
(10:46):
But I agree that some of themare somewhat helpful side
effects in this scenario.
David Liss (10:51):
I have a cousin and she's lost 61 pounds.
And then she knew that she'sgoing on a family trip to Hawaii
so she stopped the medicationbecause she knew she was going
to eat or wanted to eat.
While she was there she gained8 pounds and then she she's back
.
And now she's back on theMedicaid.
Ketil Hviding (11:15):
Another thing is I know someone who actually have
diabetes too and actually wasable to monitor blood sugar
quite carefully before going onone of these drugs, and it's
really one of the immediateeffects was to be able to
flatten the blood sugar, reduceall the spikes, nearly
independent of what you ate.
So actually it seems to have aneffect, over and above the
effect on what you actually eat,on how your body processes
(11:36):
sugar.
Tara Schmidt (11:36):
Yes, that's correct, and that's especially
why these started as diabetesmedications, because of their
impact on things like insulinand glucose rises after meals.
Ketil Hviding (11:47):
So let's say that you're really focusing on
losing weight.
Ben, would you say thismedication is the right option.
Tara Schmidt (11:53):
I have a conversation with my patients
about we consider themessentially kind of four
different pathways for weightloss.
So you have lifestyle good olddiet and exercise.
You have medications, andthere's a number of them, not
just GLP-1s.
We also have endoscopic,bariatric therapies, so weight
loss procedures that are doneendoscopically or down the
(12:14):
esophagus, and then we havebariatric surgery and I would
say, for people who a medicationis right would, of course,
depend on the amount of weightthat they need to lose.
I think people who strugglewith hunger, people who struggle
with cravings, people strugglewith food noise, are good
candidates and they're not agood candidate if they
anticipate using these.
(12:34):
In my mind, if they're lookingto lose five pounds, one, they
might not even qualify right viathe FDA guidelines to be
prescribed the medication.
But we really have aconversation with patients about
looking at these as long-termmedications, because obesity is
meant to be seen as a chroniccondition or chronic disease
state.
Ketil Hviding (12:53):
Yeah, can you explain what food noise is?
What's that Food noise?
Tara Schmidt (12:58):
Yeah, have any of you ever experienced just like
being in your home and not beingable to stop thinking about
food, like when's my next snack?
I just had dinner but I wonderwhat I'm going to have for
dessert.
Or like the thing where youlike, have your pantry open and
you're just staring because youknow you want something.
So literally just consistent orhigh, I should say, thoughts of
(13:19):
food.
And I think that people eitherknow that they have it and can
quickly identify that, orthey'll say like I don't know
what you're talking about andthat person doesn't have food
noise.
If they don't know what I'mtalking about in my mind, do any
of you have food noise?
I absolutely do.
Ketil Hviding (13:34):
Yeah, okay, I recognize the symptoms, but I
don't have it all the time.
I get it all the time.
Tara Schmidt (13:41):
Yeah, and of course, eating is complex, right
, it's psychological, it'sphysiological, it's
environmental, so it's more thanI don't mean to make a comment.
Ketil Hviding (13:52):
I got to speak with Tony Robbins.
I just told my wife I have somesnack, sorry, sorry.
David Liss (13:59):
I spoke with Tony Robbins once.
Tara Schmidt (14:00):
He said that food is the friend that can't say no,
or people who are like I don'tknow the last time I ate and I'm
like you don't Like I forgot toeat breakfast.
Ketil Hviding (14:09):
I'm like I've never forgotten to eat breakfast
in my life.
Some people are like that.
So I asked my wife you knowthere's some more snacks in the
house now than there used to be.
It's not really a bad snack,but I know that I have a
tendency to pick them up.
(14:29):
She's trying to hide them, butshe was not very smart at it.
So I phoned her and I said youhave to stop me from finding
that and you have to fight me.
"Aussie" Mike James (14:34):
Oh, yes, you have to fight me and stop me
.
David Liss (14:39):
Dr Kennedy, what were the most common things
related to weight and nutritionthat your patients would speak
to you about?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (14:45):
Most of it.
Well, I sort of have two typesof patients.
I have the patients who, likeTara just said, want to lose
five pounds, 10 pounds for theupcoming wedding.
Or you know that they boughtthis dress and they got to get
in it because they want toimpress somebody.
Tara Schmidt (15:03):
High school reunion.
I hear a lot.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (15:05):
High school reunion, yes, and so it's one
of those things.
So those people are one thing,and I think that for me, the
dilemma that the GLP-1s broughtout went because of their
success and people losing weightand because it was for a lot of
people it was a quick way to doit.
It helped them to forget aboutlifestyle, forget about exercise
(15:29):
, because if you just take thesedrugs you'll actually you will
lose weight.
For those who it works for Now.
So then there's the people whoare morbidly obese, the people
who's you know, people who aremorbidly obese, the people whose
you know BMI is 35 plus, kindof stuff.
They're different in that mostof them at the time, once they
(15:50):
are ready, and I would say, youhave to meet I've learned you
have to meet patients where theyare, when they're ready, they
will sort of guide you down thepath of okay, I'm ready to do
this.
I've always been a proponent.
I technically hate the worddiet because to me, diet means
that it's a, for a time, limitedperiod restriction.
(16:12):
You go back to whatever is yournormal routine, which defeats
the purpose.
I don't know what the otherterm we should use is, because
everything in the environmenthas diet attached to it, and so
I, you know, but I think thatthey work.
One of the things I have foundis it is, at least for me when I
(16:32):
was still practicing, it washarder to get people who were
just obese but who didn't havediabetes or who weren't
pre-diabetic, to get on thesedrugs, and particularly because,
you know, I was dealing with apopulation that was in the
Medicare population and soMedicare is not covering it, and
(16:55):
so and that's a largepercentage of people, you know
there's a greater percentage andTara probably will correct me
know there's a greaterpercentage, and Tara probably
will correct me, of obese peopleover 55 than they are under 25.
But probably not that much.
But I see, you know, you see itand you know it's funny now
being an older person and beinga patient and sitting in a
(17:15):
doctor's office and you see thenumber of peoples and you see
how people many offices havechanged the size of the chairs
that they put in the waitingarea.
Tara Schmidt (17:26):
It's actually a regulation that, depending on,
for example, if your clinicpractices bariatric surgery, you
will have a surveyor or anauditor come and make sure and
this is a good thing, right,especially if you're going to do
something like bariatricsurgery of does the hospital bed
?
What's the weight limit?
Are the toilets floor mountedversus wall mounted?
(17:47):
What do the seats look like inthe waiting room and in my
office?
It's kind of fascinating, butin that scenario, it's for the
patient and especially so thatthey can feel comfortable and so
that they can feel welcomed inthat environment, which is the
purpose of why they're there.
Ketil Hviding (18:02):
So one of the things that I think you
mentioned is that thesemedications are kind of forever.
Is that fully true or anychance that you can get off them
?
Tara Schmidt (18:13):
We don't know yet.
So what we do know is thatpeople who stop the medication
about one year after cessationof the drug they tend to have
regained anywhere from 50 to 66,so half to two thirds of their
weight back.
And I very commonly kind ofoveruse this scenario of what if
(18:35):
you had a patient with chronichypertension or high blood
pressure?
If you take them off theirblood pressure medication, they
will have a return of theirhypertension.
So we know that long-term usageis really the only solution we
have right now for long-termefficacy.
Now we don't have data superfar out in terms of what the
(18:57):
other options are.
It's not likely going to bestopping the drug.
If anything, it's likely to bedecreasing the dose.
Ketil Hviding (19:05):
Okay, yeah, I mean this is to some extent
related to the costs.
Obviously, these aremedications that are in high
demand and somewhat restrictedsupply, and the companies will
say we need to recoup ourinvestment in these drugs.
So even a company likeNovonogat Nordisk, who claim
(19:25):
they are for the benefit ofhumanity, they seem to have
gained a lot of money on this.
Tara Schmidt (19:34):
They're doing okay .
Ketil Hviding (19:36):
But you know, at some stage this will fall, so
they will be off, will not beprotected, the patent will not
be protected anymore and you getmore entries into the market
and you will actually reduce thecost to the cost of production
more closely.
I'm an economist, of course,but this can take time.
(19:57):
But you know, what do we knowabout actually how costly it is
to produce these costs?
Tara Schmidt (20:02):
Well, and it's complex, of course, and you know
better than I about thesecomplexities.
But another thing to consider isthat oral medication will be
coming on the market quite soon,so that could, I believe, will
vastly decrease the cost,because now we're not having to
use pens or injections.
We also have to think about thecost savings that we may end up
(20:24):
having insurance companies, forexample, because what if you no
longer have to take your bloodpressure medication because
that's resolved?
What if you no longer need aknee replacement because your
arthritis is doing better andthat was really just weight
related and that you had kneepain?
Because what if our rates ofcancer go down?
Because I think there's sevendifferent types of cancer that
(20:45):
are related to obesity.
So I think we're focused, ofcourse, on how expensive these
are right now, and it's verydifficult to get the ROI out of
it because it's so complex.
And obesity, you know you canconsider, impacts every organ
system in the body, in myopinion.
So how do we measure thebenefits and the cost savings?
(21:07):
But we're looking at a prettylike a big sticker shock when
you look at the injection itself.
Ketil Hviding (21:13):
So we are here seeing a drug that you know we
talked about the side effects.
Often those are the immediateside effects.
That might not even be sideeffects, but they be're part of
the way they work.
But you know, when I putsomething in my body on a
continuous basis, I could be alittle worried about what's the
long-term effect on my health.
Apart from the positive onethat you mentioned, maybe
(21:35):
there's some possible negativethat we haven't studied yet, or
do you have any indication whatthat could be?
Tara Schmidt (21:41):
Yeah, I think they're looking at people now,
right, so they're currentlylooking at people who are going
to be five, 10 years, et cetera,on these medications.
There is a risk, of course,with any medication that you put
in your body, but we're alsoseeing some really wonderful
benefits, right.
So we're talking about, like,the decrease in cardiovascular
risk.
These end up might being usedin addiction, for people who
(22:04):
struggle with addiction.
So, yeah, we we can at leastknow that they're going to keep
a close eye on the populationand on these medications,
especially people who end upbeing long term users.
But that takes time, right.
We have to have people on themfor a long time to get those
results.
Ketil Hviding (22:20):
I mean, are there any people who are genetically
wired to struggle with weightand despite doing everything
right, and maybe even with thesedrugs, and they're not
sufficient?
Tara Schmidt (22:33):
Yeah, I do think that genetics play a role.
How much of a role, I'm notsure we've uncovered that secret
yet, but I believe thatgenetics play a role.
I think your childhood and howyou learned about food and
nutrition play a significantrole.
I think trauma can play a role,psychology environment.
I'm a pretty big believer thatI, at least in America, live in
(22:56):
an obesogenic environment.
So it's kind of just this bigpuzzle piece like which piece of
the puzzle were you stuck with?
Like do you have the geneticsand you live in a food desert
and your education level islower, Right, so it can be
pretty complex.
But yeah, I do think thathaving the right quote unquote
puzzle is probably related toprivilege.
David Liss (23:17):
Are rates of obesity related to income or education
level?
Tara Schmidt (23:23):
They're linked especially if you think about
food access right.
So how many fast foodrestaurants are in that town
versus how many grocery stores?
What's the cost of fast foodversus what is the cost of fresh
food?
What's access like to adietician?
What's access like to awellness center?
Can kids safely ride theirbikes?
Is there a sidewalk?
(23:43):
So absolutely, there's many,many factors that play a role in
weight, but also just nutritionand wellness, that are
completely out of a person'scontrol and things have gotten
worse everywhere.
Ketil Hviding (23:59):
I gained weight in the first two years, not an
enormous amount, but I thought Iate the same thing.
It's only you know, it's that,this high fructose corn syrup
that is kind of poisoning me allthe time when I'm here.
Tara Schmidt (24:15):
I would ask you more questions.
So, even though you may havebeen eating the same things, I
would ask you what didtransportation look like for you
, right?
So were you previously walkingor riding your bike, or even
taking the train, and now you'resitting in your car and sitting
in rush hour for multiple hoursa day?
Even if you were eating thesame foods, I would ask you if
your portions were different.
(24:36):
We're not real good at smallportions in the US, small
portions in the US.
Added sugar, added fats, allthe foods that make, all the
things that make food taste good, access to food, accessibility,
normalizing eating in variousaspects of your life or
environment so there's a longlist for anything, I think.
Ketil Hviding (24:57):
The French would focus a lot on the rhythm of
food intake, so they have veryregimented times when they eat.
So you eat a very smallbreakfast it might be quite
sweet but it's very small andthen you eat lunch, and that's
about 1230 all over the countryand then there might be a little
boutique, what they call, andthen there's dinner and they can
be a little later.
(25:17):
In between that it's formedupon to snack.
That actually helps quite a lot, although it's not.
You know, they drink a lot ofwine to that, so that's not so
good.
Tara Schmidt (25:36):
We do know that the higher frequency of eating
you have in most cases unlessyou're tracking et cetera and
you can do that math yourselfbut in most cases the higher
frequency of eating someone has,the more calories they will
consume.
Frequency of eating someone has, the more calories they will
consume.
That's again kind of what Ilove, just like calories in type
things, because most peopledon't adjust their next meal
even though they had a snack, ordon't stop their meal halfway
through with the anticipation ofhaving a snack, so it tends to
(25:56):
just be additive as opposed toadjusted.
"Aussie" Mike James (26:00):
Okay, tara, before we move on to wellness
and diet culture, I've just gota couple for you just off the
top of my head.
When we're talking in thebodybuilding world, they often
refer to creatine as an aid.
Does that help in weight loss,or is that purely muscle
building?
Tara Schmidt (26:15):
Creatine is actually one of the most studied
supplements out there, so I amfamiliar that it's pretty well
studied and it does have somebenefit to it.
I'm not sure if there's goodevidence for weight loss per se
All right Another one.
Ketil Hviding (26:31):
I was told by my trainer that because I was going
actually during the competitionwhere they were weighing you in
, that an immediate effect ofcreatine would be to increase
weight, because of water.
Yeah, water.
But I mean that's just atechnical thing, yeah,
temporarily.
"Aussie" Mike James (26:49):
Also, there's a lot of talk and I've
seen various conflictingresearch on diet sodas that they
can actually have the oppositeeffect of what they're
advertising that they actuallyput on weight.
Do you have any comments onthat?
Tara Schmidt (27:04):
My comment would be not mathematically, because
zero is zero, but I do ask mypatients when you consume an
artificial sweetener, whensomething contains an artificial
sweetener, how do you react?
And I truly think there are twocamps here of if I have an
artificial sweetener.
Someone said it's kind of likeputting water in your gas tank,
(27:25):
Like it looks full but it's notgoing to do anything for you,
and so your car expects that itshould be able to go, but it
doesn't, right, you're notgetting a blood sugar rise,
you're not getting immediateenergy.
So I do think there are somepeople who will then go seek out
actual sugar.
They'll go seek out that bloodsugar rise.
They'll go seek out thatincrease in energy.
I also think there are peoplewho have a diet soda and say
(27:49):
that's what I needed.
I just needed that hyper kindof very sweet taste on my tongue
and now I feel good and canmove on with their day.
So I actually would have aone-on-one conversation to ask
you or experiment a little bitwith how you react to those.
Ketil Hviding (28:04):
So what about?
So I've read.
Of course I'm like everybodyelse looking at the internet and
stuff, but the artificialsweetener might have some
negative effect on your gutculture.
And those might be importantfor your overall health and how
you eat and cravings importantfor the overall health and how
you eat and cravings and all ofthat.
Tara Schmidt (28:25):
Yeah, artificial sweeteners have been linked to,
we could say, maybe poor gutmicrobiome outcomes or poor gut
health.
So what I prefer to talk about,of course, is then what has
positive impact on the gutmicrobiome 30 different kinds of
plants and fiber and all of theabove.
But yeah, I've heard that aswell.
"Aussie" Mike James (28:45):
Okay, and finally, I mean Kettle alluded
there when you're talking aboutwhen he first came to America
and thought he was eating thesame food, but I guess that
relates to recording your foodor diarizing your food.
I swear by I think it's a greatapp is MyFitnessPal, that we
record your daily intake of foodand so forth.
Tara Schmidt (29:04):
You're supposed to say Mayo Clinic diet Mike.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:06):
Mayo Clinic .
I was just going to ask you.
Tara Schmidt (29:09):
You misspoke accidentally.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:11):
Okay.
So what was it again?
Mayo Clinic.
There is an app that records.
Yes, mayo Clinic, okay.
David Liss (29:19):
We'll be sure and put that in the.
Tara Schmidt (29:21):
I'll get you a free account.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:22):
I'm not now off MyFitnessPalm on the Mayo
Clinic.
All right, so now moving rightalong on wellness and diet
culture, I'll hand you over theday for a couple of questions
you may have.
David Liss (29:31):
Yeah Well, I think one thing I just kind of in the
news lately this is kind of alittle bit of a tangent, but
we're seeing a lot of thingsabout the last day or two about
sugar and Coke as opposed tohigh fructose corn syrup, and I
don't know if that is any kindof a victory.
It's sugar, you know, and Idon't know that we need to be
having much sugar regardless.
(29:52):
We have too much as individualsand as a society.
Tara Schmidt (29:57):
I was quoted an article yesterday on this and
the article is a bit politicalso I'd prefer to not share it
because I don't want people onthe other side of the party to
come at me.
But my clinical, non-politicalopinion, which is exactly what I
gave I did not know it wasgoing to be spun politically is
that sugar is sugar.
Is sugar in this scenario?
(30:18):
Right?
So high fructose corn syrup isbrown sugar is white sugar, is
molasses, is honey, is canesugar is what we've got them all
?
Right, because in soda, whichis what we're talking about,
they're still ultra processed,right?
So this is not someone likechewing on sugar cane.
(30:38):
I think panda bears maybe dothat, but they're the only ones
that I know that are actuallyeating this in its natural form.
So if we're going to talk aboutregular soda, in my mind
regular soda is regular soda.
So that was my take on that andagain, we could all use less
sugar.
Ketil Hviding (30:57):
So the quote was sugar is sugar, is sugar?
Something like that.
Tara Schmidt (31:01):
Yeah, I said added sugar is added sugar is added
sugar.
We're more eloquent.
But yes, they did grab that one.
David Liss (31:08):
One of the things that you've spoken and written
about is weight stigma, and whatrole does weight stigma play in
how people experience care andhow people feel about themselves
?
Tara Schmidt (31:18):
I think it's really complex.
Unfortunately, one of theplaces that people face weight
stigma the most is actually intheir medical care, and we could
even reference what we weretalking about and if you go to a
waiting room and there's not achair that fits your body.
So weight stigma is reallydifficult because people
experience it in theirday-to-day lives.
(31:40):
They experience it inopportunities, or lack thereof,
for employment, in their senseof belonging in society.
People that I've learned theworst stories from are people
who've actually undergonedramatic weight loss.
I work a lot with bariatricsurgery patients.
David Liss (31:55):
In what way?
What kind of things do you see?
Tara Schmidt (31:58):
I had a woman once tell me that people open doors
for her now and I said what doyou mean by that?
And she said when I'm out inpublic, people open doors for me
.
And I said didn't they open thedoor for you before?
And she said, no, they didn'tNow.
That medical provider is notwrong in that excess
(32:25):
gravitational load on a joint isimpactful, but I had a patient
once who had cancer.
She had a tumor in her knee andfelt like she was ignored.
Her knee pain and it was notbilateral, but her knee pain was
ignored for a very, very longtime because they kept telling
her it was related to her weight.
So those are my worst examples,but profound examples, of
(32:49):
weight bias.
David Liss (32:52):
So we read somewhere they called obesity the last
acceptable form ofdiscrimination.
Tara Schmidt (32:58):
Yes, and it's more acceptable because people think
that it's in our control, right?
So the color of skin that youhave is the color of skin that
you were born with.
You did not choose that andthat's obviously.
There's racism and that's notacceptable.
More ideally, not going in oursociety anymore.
(33:18):
But weight bias is acceptedbecause people think that
obesity is a choice of theycould do something about it.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (33:32):
I actually would interject.
I had a patient once who shewas 5'2 and 326 pounds and she
was going to her brother'swedding and the airline would
not.
She bought one ticket, but theairline told her you need to buy
two tickets.
We will not let you fly on thisairline unless you buy two
(33:58):
tickets.
And this sort of ties into whatobesity, the effects it has on
your mental health and wellness.
Tara Schmidt (34:10):
Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (34:11):
It can be quite disruptive.
And what does happen?
Because it's funny when you atleast I know with me when I talk
in detail with some of myreally obese patients, the first
thing they tell you is I don'treally eat a lot and you know so
.
Then I asked them.
I said well, you need to do afood diary, you need to tell me
(34:35):
everything that you eat for aweek and put it in, put a time
in it.
They were always surprisedbecause they were technically
snacking and because in theculture that they grew up,
eating was sitting in front of atable with the rest of the
family.
You eat a full meal and thenyou go on, but they don't
consider snacking as part ofeating.
Tara Schmidt (34:59):
And this is exactly what Mike was bringing
up with self-monitoring before Iyelled at him and yes, mike,
regardless of the app that youuse, or a post-it note for all I
care, right, I don't care howyou do it, but self-monitoring
tends to be one of the numberone predictors of long-term,
successful weight loss.
And you can do calories, youcan do carbohydrate choices, you
(35:21):
can do fruits and vegetables.
You can just keep tally of howmany glasses of wine you had if
that's your source of excesscalories.
But when you have to write itdown, you have greater
self-awareness.
It's not me telling you, asyour friendly neighborhood
dietitian, what you should haveor shouldn't have eaten that day
.
You're just ideally beingneutral and recording what
(35:41):
you're sticking in your mouthand you're going to have some
awareness of like oh, had acookie with my coffee this
morning, which is exactly what Idid because the neighbor
brought them over.
But if I had to write that downevery single morning, we'd have
a problem.
"Aussie" Mike James (35:55):
Something applies to exercise People who
tend to write that down everysingle morning.
We'd have a problem.
Same thing applies to exercisePeople who tend to write down
their exercise makes them muchmore accountable.
Okay, dave, you had a finalquestion, I think there.
David Liss (36:07):
Okay, well, so can you talk about your work
debunking misinformation onsocial media?
And why do we believe in thesethings so easily, from showers
to diets, to God knows what?
Tara Schmidt (36:21):
It's engaging, right.
People who are good at socialmedia are good at social media
for a reason and they make a lotmore money, unfortunately, than
I do.
It's eye catching, it can beshocking, right?
Or the article or the cover ofthe New York Times is meant to
be engaging so that someone buysyour magazine.
It can be appealing results.
(36:41):
It can be scandalous.
It's interesting, right, andthat's what entertainment is.
Comparison is pretty boring.
Like eat your fruits andvegetables.
Everyone Like record what youeat and it hasn't changed that
much.
And people don't like that.
So if I tell you, hey, do youremember what you learned in
(37:02):
second grade about nutrition, 85, 90% of that's true.
Like, just go, do that.
It's not going to sellmagazines that's not interesting
, but it is true.
Magazines that's notinteresting, but it is true.
So I think it's more of justthe excitement around new diet,
new food, new toxin, new methodfor what we're looking for,
(37:27):
right.
And we also want things very,very quickly and I think
misinformation on social mediatends to promise things very,
very quickly.
"Aussie" Mike James (37:36):
I also found that it's.
I've probably spent too muchtime on YouTube, but I find that
it's really adopting some ofthe old tabloid newspaper
methods.
Every one of their it's aheadline and the video may have
nothing to do with it it mighthave one line in there, but it
attracts an attention and peoplemight get on this thing for 30
seconds or something at most,but they've still seen that
(37:58):
headline and that is how itcreates misinformation.
I think it's really employingold methods in a new field in
terms of communication.
Tara Schmidt (38:06):
And it gets your click right.
You clicked on it, yeah, andthat's all they're concerned
about.
"Aussie" Mike James (38:10):
That's all they're concerned about.
They're not concerned about thePeople In the American people
have short-term interests, youhave to catch them.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:21):
If you just look at any news feed that's on
, they pretty much do everythingin cycles of three to five
minutes yeah, and nothing more.
If it goes beyond that, youtend to lose your audience,
because it's hard to keep themengaged.
Ketil Hviding (38:35):
In addition, now the algorithm can tailor it to
you.
So they have seen that I'vebeen Googling a lot about how to
lose weight.
They will send me a lot of youknow information about that,
that 90% of it is not correctand you know the tailoring is
(38:57):
the new thing.
That is really powerful.
Tara Schmidt (38:59):
It's impeccable.
I Googled where I was going onvacation because I wanted to see
a picture and I was justbombarded with like the whole
world knows where it is rightnow Because I was getting
advertisements and articles andmath yeah, it was.
I was like, ok, well, that'snot a secret anymore.
"Aussie" Mike James (39:17):
Maybe we can hand over to Dr K for some
questions on practical nutritionfor daily life and longevity.
Oh yeah, yes, Tara.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:24):
So you've talked about nutrient density
and what would you say would beyour go-to framework for
building a balanced plate.
Tara Schmidt (39:34):
Yeah, I do what we we've done for the past.
We're going on about 15 yearswith with the government's plate
method and I don't disagreewith it and and that's half or
more fruits and vegetables.
Variety would be key in thelong term.
A source of protein, be it leananimal or plantbased protein, a
source of whole grain or adifferent starchy plant.
(39:57):
And if you'd like some kind ofcalcium in your diet and if you
want some extra fruit or veggiesin there, we kind of consider
those to be unlimited.
So this is why I don't have ahuge social media following,
because I say boring answerslike that, but that it works
right and that's like the goodand the bad news of it is like
it's not overly complex, but Ithink people want it to be.
Ketil Hviding (40:19):
Yeah, so you should.
I could eat that much fruit andvegetables.
No, no fruit.
You said fruit, yeah.
Tara Schmidt (40:25):
You know?
Here's what I said Unlimitedvegetables for everyone.
Ketil Hviding (40:29):
Okay, go nuts Fruit.
Tara Schmidt (40:32):
I I actually tend to say I've had maybe one
patient in my career who I hadto say back off on the fruit One
they were blending it in asmoothie, also had high
triglycerides, etc.
But 99 out of 100 people, I'mgoing to say, are not eating
enough fruit.
So it's extremely rare that Iwould limit you.
(40:54):
Now, if you have diabetes, I'mgoing to pair it with a meal.
We're going to make sure thatyou count it as part of your
carbohydrate sources.
Outside of that, I'm reallydoubtful that you're eating too
much.
There are a million other foodsthat I would say let's put on
the brakes.
Before I've ever told someonelike hey, dr Kennedy, I think
you had too many apples today.
(41:14):
I also think they'reself-limiting.
Like are you really going toeat 10 bananas?
You're going to be constipatedas heck.
First of all, I just don'tthink you're going to eat 10 of
them.
But can I eat 10 handfuls ofpretzels or chips Like you?
Betcha, see you there.
Ketil Hviding (41:28):
Yeah.
So what about the littledessert at the end of the meal?
Anything fit well, I just gotpermission, yeah, yeah comment
on thatso I you know because I I
actually followed someone whoactually was tracking the
glucoses and it really and andyou know the the theory that it
works, it posts where it saysvery different at the end of the
(41:51):
meal than at the beginning ofthe meal is actually pretty true
.
So if you eat a little bit ofsweet at the end of all
vegetables or fruits, they will,you know.
At least you don't get the samespikes.
Tara Schmidt (42:03):
Yeah, or like if someone had diabetes and they
said can I never have a cookieagain?
I would actually say have acookie with your lunch, because
now you have protein Ideally inthat lunch.
You obviously have some fiberin there.
You have other foods in thestomach that will slow digestion
instead of just having a cookieon an empty stomach.
So, yeah, I would say put thesweet with the meal.
(42:26):
I don't really care necessarilyabout the timing of it, but if
you can put it on the plate andconsider it to be okay, that's
one of my carbohydrate choices.
Or instead of a grain, I'mgoing to have a cookie.
Ok, now we swapped those 15carbs out of there.
That actually is a method thatI am absolutely comfortable with
.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (42:43):
So what are some of the common healthy
foods that you think aremisunderstood or that people
don't think they are as healthyas the establishment believe?
Tara Schmidt (42:56):
I'm not a huge fan of bars.
I think a lot of they'reconvenient and I absolutely
understand that, but I think ifyou look at the nutrition label
of many of them, they're goingto be like a healthified or a
glorified candy bar in my mind.
I also think there is kind of alot of unnecessary protein
(43:19):
products out there, like proteinchips.
We've got protein popcorn andI'm okay if you have chips and
especially popcorn in your life,but does it need to be protein?
I'd rather you have like actualpopcorn that you pop.
That's technically a wholegrain, right.
And now we've got maybe ahealthy omega-3 or a little bit
(43:40):
of omega-6 fatty acid in there.
But if we get into proteinpopcorn and protein chips and I
saw protein cookies out therenow we're just going further
down the ultra-processed foodaisle or route processed food
aisle or route and I think wehave some very strong evidence
that our high consumption ofultra processed food is
absolutely going to impact ourhealth.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (44:00):
And for someone who's trying to make one
change to improve their eatinghabits, what's the most powerful
first step one can make?
Tara Schmidt (44:10):
Take stock in what you're currently doing, right.
So I could say, hey, my bestadvice is for you to stop
drinking alcohol, but what ifyou never drank alcohol in the
first place?
Then that's not good advice,but for someone else it might be
hugely meaningful.
I could say I need you to starteating more vegetables.
What if that person already hasvegetables six times a day?
(44:31):
That's not relevant to them.
So what I really want people todo as their first step is kind
of like what Mike was talkingabout is what are you currently
doing and where do you think Ilook for excess empty calories?
So these are one calories thatwe don't need, but they're also
calories that are not providingyou with nutrition.
And start there.
Are you drinking any water?
(44:52):
That's a great goal.
Are you moving your body at allduring the day?
That's a great goal.
But take stock in your currenthabits before you make that
decision.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (45:02):
So how much water?
Is too much water in a day, ifthere is such a thing?
Tara Schmidt (45:08):
There is because you can get you know you can get
water toxicity.
I think we saw a really tragiccase of that at a raft hazing
incident.
"Aussie" Mike James (45:16):
Yes, that's true.
Tara Schmidt (45:17):
Sometimes it can happen with athletes if they're
not also pairing it withelectrolytes, etc.
So for me it depends on yourbody size, Also your sweating,
If you're sweating, if you'reexercising, if you're in a very,
very hot environment.
How we tell people to assesstheir hydration is by looking at
the color of their urine.
(45:37):
There's really not a bettertest.
So we like light lemonade,politely speaking, or straw
color.
If it's darker than that,you're probably dehydrated and
especially as the day goes on,it should lighten up.
It does not need to be clear.
So we're looking for paleyellow and if it's more
concentrated than that, havesome water in your life.
"Aussie" Mike James (45:57):
And is clear urine.
Is there any bad indication ofthat, tara, if your urine is
clear?
Tara Schmidt (46:01):
I don't think so, unless we're getting into that
water toxicity range.
I don't think it's not to myknowledge.
I just don't think it has to bethe goal per se.
"Aussie" Mike James (46:11):
What about Dr K?
What do you think of that?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (46:13):
Clear no again, I think it depends on the
situation.
So if you have an and notnecessarily an athlete, just
someone who's out and aboutworking out on a regular basis,
I always tell people when you'reyoung, you can get away with
not being as hydrated as you arewhen you're 35 plus, because
(46:34):
you're you know, I thinkeverybody's metabolism changes
as we age and what we used to beable to eat, um, when we were
younger, and how we could burncalories, you know almost just
by thinking.
It changes over time and youhave to compensate for that.
I always tell people they needto listen, because most of us
(46:56):
know when we're thirsty, most ofus know when I think it's more
complex when you're older,because you don't have the same
reaction to dehydration thatyour reactions tend to be you
pass out, you fall down Whereaswhen you're 18, 20, you know
your reactions tend to be youpass out, you fall down, whereas
(47:17):
when you're 18, 20, you can getdizzy pretty quickly,
lightheaded pretty quickly, andso you know the change.
You know, and I've always been aproponent of water and I've had
enough personal experiences inmy life when I didn't get
hydrated enough and theconsequences are dire, you know,
(47:40):
like fracturing half my face.
So yeah, so it's, I think it'sa it's it's.
It's very important to drinkenough, and I always say
technically if you were toliterally put an ivy in most
people and rather take anintravenous line and just draw
(48:01):
out all the liquid out of it,all that would be left would be
30 of us, because our body, inthe healthy person 70, is water
by weight okay, all right.
"Aussie" Mike James (48:13):
Dr k, do you have any other questions to
finish off here?
No, I'm pretty good.
Ketil Hviding (48:17):
Yes, I have a question.
So on the, there's a fad, it'scalled intermittent fasting.
What do you?
Tara Schmidt (48:25):
think about that.
Ketil Hviding (48:25):
What do you think about?
Tara Schmidt (48:26):
There is actually some good evidence for you can
call it intermittent fasting ortime-restricted eating, but it
doesn't need to be overlydramatic.
I had an endocrinologist on thepodcast and had a full episode
on it.
I believe that she said we seethe most benefit when we fast
(48:47):
for at least 12 to 14 hours.
So that leaves a 10 to 12 houreating window, which I think is
quite reasonable.
But if you think about people'skind of nighttime habits it can
get complicated.
But I do think, and again so Ithink a reasonable eating window
(49:08):
.
There are some benefits becauseI think your body just needs
time when it's not digestingfood.
It's also not likely necessarythat you have that many calories
or that you're eating that lateat night.
So I know that it became quitepopularized, kind of in a fad
diet type way.
But we also have some prettygood actual evidence to support
(49:32):
limiting your eating window.
Ketil Hviding (49:34):
So nighttime fasting would count.
So let's say I eat at seveno'clock at night and next
morning I don't eat before eight.
That's pretty good.
Okay, and it's breakfast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (49:44):
That's what it means, breaking the fast An
interesting Ramadan where peoplefrom sunrise to sunset they
take nothing in, but if you'veever been around people in the
evenings when they're havingthat one meal that they're
having, and.
I always used to be surprised,having had a lot of Muslim
(50:05):
patients, how most of them,during Ramadan, never lost any
weight.
They really had some feastswhere you almost make up for all
of what you didn't do duringsun's daylight hours at night.
That's interesting.
Tara Schmidt (50:23):
Yeah, and that's a good comment on.
If someone asks me aboutintermittent fasting or if
they're experimenting with it.
You know, if people are tryingto sneak in their last snack
before their time is cut off,I'm like, ok, intermittent
fasting is probably just not agood fit for you.
But moving your dinner earlierand not eating after dinner,
(50:44):
like those are very reasonablehabits that we don't have to
call intermittent fasting, likeit doesn't have to have a name
associated with it.
"Aussie" Mike James (50:52):
All right, folks, as we start to wind up
after Tara spent such a longtime with us, which we really
appreciate, of course, just acouple of almost rapid fire
questions, if you like.
Tara, what's a nutrition beliefyou've held before that you
probably changed your mind aboutover the years?
Tara Schmidt (51:07):
I have admittedly been judgmental about let's call
them diets or fad diets outthere that I did not think were
necessary.
I did not think that they weremedically backed or had any good
research behind them, and inrecent years I have adopted more
of a sense of you know what,tara.
(51:27):
If it works for that person,why do you care?
So I'm trying to be more matureabout letting people.
But like before, my dieticianheart was like no, but that's
not the good one, like I don'twant you to do that.
Ketil Hviding (51:39):
And I'm trying to just Eating meat is okay if
that works for you.
Tara Schmidt (51:43):
If what.
Ketil Hviding (51:43):
Just eating meat, bad meat.
Tara Schmidt (51:45):
Did you see the YouTube video of the girl
yelling?
Okay, that one's not myfavorite.
No, it's not my favorite.
What favorite?
No, it's not my favorite.
"Aussie" Mike James (51:55):
What's one thing you wish everyone knew
about their health?
Tara.
Tara Schmidt (51:57):
It's individual, so please individualize your
choices and your goals to you.
A second one, if I can have two, would be one bite can make a
difference in a good way of likeadding one bite of a plant or
fruit or a vegetable or a beanover time can compound to
(52:18):
benefits.
"Aussie" Mike James (52:19):
Okay.
It's like in the book AtomicHabits.
He talks about that, doingsmall things at a time.
If you had one minute withsomeone standing in front of a
fridge at 10 pm, who's talking?
Was that, sorry, kettle?
Was that you?
Okay, all right.
Again, if you had one minutewith someone standing in front
of the fridge at 10 pm debatinga binge or maybe a beer, talking
(52:43):
personally, what would you say?
Go to?
Tara Schmidt (52:45):
bed.
"Aussie" Mike James (52:45):
Okay.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (52:48):
Or if you really want me to do that, I
could do my counseling.
Ketil Hviding (52:53):
I would go to bed if you told me that.
Tara Schmidt (52:54):
like that I have small kids, can you?
tell I would have bowed my headand I would kind of sneak, snuck
up to bed, my mom voice comingout yes, exactly.
Or I could say, mike, what youlooking for, and what I mean by
that, is are you hungry Like?
Is your stomach actuallytelling you that it's empty and
(53:15):
you're getting a sign that youneed something in your stomach?
Are you bored?
Are you seeking comfort?
Is this habit?
Are you just in the pantry?
Because that's in the same openconcept space as your living
room and that's where you'rewatching TV.
Then I'd say, go watch TV inyour bedroom, because I'm
assuming you don't drink beer inbed and if you do, no judgment.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:36):
I love it, that's a whole other podcast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (53:39):
No, you're getting it.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:41):
I'm picking on you.
Ketil Hviding (53:42):
We're Australian, we're not drinking beer.
You know we drink beereverywhere.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:47):
That's a very bad cultural stereotype,
it's true.
Yeah, it is, but we always liketo leave our listeners with,
you know, two or threeactionable items just to finish
off For a good, healthynutrition plan.
Is it two or threerecommendations you think could
just point us in the rightdirection, tara?
Tara Schmidt (54:05):
Think about what you can add to your diet.
So much of what's out there isabout stop eating this, don't
eat that, right.
Quit X, y or Z, and it's somuch more fun to add.
So can you add some fruits orvegetables to your life, right?
Can you add some more fish toyour diet?
Can you add some olive oil whenyou're going to cook your
dinner tonight?
(54:25):
So add instead of subtract.
Before you make a change, assessyour current habits and what
would actually be a realistic,meaningful change for you versus
what the very attractiveTikToker told you to do.
And third would be look at howyour environment is playing a
(54:46):
role.
Right, and this is not like youcan't have ice cream in the
freezer.
But if you didn't have icecream in the freezer, would you
have eaten it at 10 o'clock atnight?
What if you had to get in yourcar and go drive to the gas
station?
Most of us wouldn't do that.
So are there ways in which youcan adapt your environment?
Adding things to your fridgepre-cut vegetables, right.
Or subtracting things from yourfridge or pantry that help
(55:09):
support your wellness goals.
"Aussie" Mike James (55:11):
Terrific.
That's very unique advice.
Really, I think that'll bereally beneficial to all of us.
So, in closing up, that's awrap on this inspiring
conversation with Tara Schmidt.
A huge thanks to you, tara, forjoining us today.
I know you've got a very busytime, so thank you very much for
joining us.
It's very beneficial for all ofus.
Thank you for having me it wasa pleasure Terrific.
(55:33):
And we'll get onto that MayoClinic app right as soon as we
finish here, thank you.
So, folks, if you found thisepisode valuable, hit, follow on
your podcast app so you nevermiss what's next, and if someone
in your life could benefit fromthis, share it with them.
It helps grow our community andspark new conversations.
(55:53):
Hit, like and share so we get ahit on a logarithm, or whatever
you call it, and you'll findlinks to Tara's podcast, mayo
Clinic on Nutrition, plus moreof her content, in the episode
description.
So, until next time, staycurious, stay kind, and stay
well.
Thank you, folks.
Hello and welcome back to another episode
of Wellness Musketeers.
I'm Aussie, mike James, joinedby my co-host, our medical
expert, dr Richard Kennedy.
Hello, richard, how are you,mike, and everyone, our
economist, ketel Vitting Hello.
David Liss (00:22):
Ketel.
"Aussie" Mike James (00:22):
Hi, and our fitness trainer and man about
town.
Last but not least, david List.
Welcome, david.
Hey, it's a pleasure to be hereToday.
We're thrilled to welcome aspecial guest, tara Schmidt.
(00:45):
A key role in shapingevidence-based, compassionate
and inclusive wellnessstrategies for individuals
across the country.
She hosts the widely respectedMayo Clinic on Nutrition, where
she demystifies complex healthtrends, debunks diet myths and
champions sustainable habitsover quick fixes.
Welcome, tara, terrific to haveyou with us today.
Tara Schmidt (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me everyone.
"Aussie" Mike James (01:08):
Pleasure.
Tara joins us today to tacklethe big questions GLP, commonly
known as trade names as Wegovyand Ozempic, etc.
Glp medications, diet myths,weight bias and what really
works for better health.
So if you're ready to rethinkyour plate and your relationship
with food, this conversation'sfor you.
Let's get right into it.
(01:29):
So just to start off, tara,what originally drew you to
nutrition as a career and whathas kept you involved with it?
Tara Schmidt (01:37):
I've been interested in nutrition since
childhood, so I don't know ifthat makes me smart or weird, or
just I was the kid like readingthe nutrition facts on a cereal
box next to my sister, who wasolder, who was doing the mazes.
I'm also a product of the 90sand that was pretty ugly diet
(02:00):
culture at the time, so I thinkthat fascinated me.
I was a tall kid, which in mymind meant big, which was untrue
, but that's not how I felt.
So I rolled with it.
I got my bachelor's and I lovedit.
I got my master's, or I did getmy master's.
Eventually.
I did my internship.
I loved it.
So I've just kind of stuck withit ever since.
"Aussie" Mike James (02:21):
Terrific.
Well, what are some of the mostpersistent nutrition myths
you've encountered over the timethat are even around, say today
, in 2025?
Tara Schmidt (02:30):
The ones that I lose sleep at night over are.
Fruit has too much sugar,grains or wheat is inherently
bad, and I think more so the useof the phrase or words like
poison and toxic when we'retalking about foods.
I'm not saying that these foodsare healthy, of course, but
(02:50):
those words bother me a littlebit, especially if someone has
like a cocktail next to themwhich includes a toxin of itself
and then they're calling youknow, someone's kids cheesy
rabbits toxic or poisonous.
"Aussie" Mike James (03:04):
Has that just come over the last couple
of years?
I've noticed that too, I thinkso.
Social media, unfortunately, andnow you're a child of the 90s
but we're quite a bit older thanthat, the three of us and back
when weight loss became a bigissue and a commercial issue as
well I think about the 70s, 60s,70s it was pretty much just a
(03:24):
case of calories in, caloriesout.
That's what everything wasfocused on.
Does that still pertain, orobviously we're missing the full
picture?
But does that calories in,calories out still maintain a
proper perspective?
Tara Schmidt (03:37):
Yeah, I like to say the math is still the math,
but it's a lot more complex thanthat, right?
So the complex of where do youlive, how do you eat, what's
your body type like, how do youremotions play into this, how
does your health play into this?
So, yeah, I have a physicianthat I work with who said you
(03:58):
know, I can make anyone loseweight.
They're going to come into thehospital and I'm going to give
them an NG tube or a nasogastrictube and just tube feed them a
certain number of calories.
It's going to be less than whatthey need and guess what?
I've got the best diet on themarkets.
The math is true, but of coursewe don't live in hospital rooms
with NG tubes.
If you're privileged enough notto be living in that scenario,
(04:21):
it's more complex.
"Aussie" Mike James (04:25):
But at the end of the day, it's just math.
Okay, right, well, and how doyou respond to when someone asks
you the typical party questionor wherever you're at, I'm sure,
when they know your background,what's the best diet?
Tara Schmidt (04:35):
The one that you'll do.
So if we're talking aboutweight loss, we talk about the
percent adherence.
So we always have diet A versus, go all the way down to Z which
one's better, which one's thebest, which one has the best
outcomes.
And what we know is that youwill lose weight.
If you're in a calorie deficit,like we talked about, you will
(04:56):
lose weight, but whether youkeep that weight off or not is
unrelated to the diet and morerelated to your percent
adherence to whatever diet youselected.
That would be kind of theconversation related to weight
loss In terms of best diets forhealth.
There are many of them, but thecommon denominators, when we
look at DASH and Mediterranean,tend to be things like it's
(05:18):
plant forward, it's high infruits and vegetables.
It's limited in ultra-processedfood.
It has omega-3 fatty acids orother healthy fats in it.
It's limited in added sugar.
So and that's a good news rightwhen we have common
denominators that we know havebeen proven, we don't have to
keep fighting over.
You know which one made thelist this year.
"Aussie" Mike James (05:39):
Okay, I'll hand you over the kettle for
some questions about the commonweight loss medications and
metabolic health.
Ketil Hviding (05:47):
Since you are so kind to give me the word that I
can speak, I would actually liketo kind of tell you that I had
a lab that, since I passed awayand your lab are constantly
hungry and I would feed that labthe same thing basically every
day, because that's the only waywe could keep the elite down.
(06:07):
So I, you know, I said you know, maybe my wife could give me
food like that and therefore Icould lose weight, but it never
really worked.
Tara Schmidt (06:16):
Adherence, remember adherence.
"Aussie" Mike James (06:19):
If you start chasing cars, we're going
gonna be worried about over time.
Ketil Hviding (06:22):
But you know, I can, I can assure you the lab,
if you actually put a lab nextto like a big container of food,
the lab would literally eatitself to death my golden
retriever would do the same yeah, it's the same.
It's the same thing, okay, solet's then talk about the big
elephant in the room.
So it's a g whatP and it's anice technical term for it.
(06:46):
It's Ozempic, Wegovy andMounjaro, for instance, and a
few others coming on the market.
It's a big business as well andseems actually to work.
We do.
There's a big buzz about it.
How should we really thinkabout this revolution?
Can you repeat that?
I'm sorry you cut out for me.
Tara Schmidt (07:03):
How should we really think about this
revolution?
Can you repeat that?
I'm sorry you cut out for me.
Ketil Hviding (07:05):
How should we really think about it?
Is it really a positiverevolution?
It's something that's going tosolve all our issues and the
obesity epidemic around theworld not only the United States
, unfortunately, oh you know,it's everywhere we can go that
far right.
Tara Schmidt (07:22):
You lost me at the end there.
We can go that far right.
You lost me at the end there.
I think that these medicationsare absolutely going to be
life-changing and life-savingfor many people.
I think that we've seen weightloss percentages that we were
previously only seeing withbariatric surgery, and bariatric
surgery is still out there andit's still a good option for
many people.
(07:42):
But I think this is going to bemuch higher in terms of
accessibility.
We'll see about cost over thelong term and kind of the return
on investment.
But I think that these arelet's at least say that they're
a fabulous benefit that we'vebeen waiting a very long time
for.
David Liss (08:00):
Will these medications work for everyone,
or are there some parts of thepopulation that they just won't
work with for some reason?
Tara Schmidt (08:07):
A lot of times what we'll do is we will assess
your weight loss at the end of,let's say, 12 weeks and make
sure that you are considered aresponder.
So a non-responder would besomeone who's been taking the
appropriate dosage for threemonths and did not lose 5% of
their total body weight.
I think that that's a smallerpercentage because these drugs
(08:29):
are pretty powerful, Becausethey work in the brain, they
work in the gut, they're helpingthe liver, they're helping the
pancreas.
So these are pretty powerfuldrugs.
We have dual agonists and nowwe have triple agonists coming,
more and more coming.
So I think there's a smallpercentage of people who would
be considered non-responders.
But the good thing is that atthat 12-week appointment a
prescribing provider wouldlikely just try a different
(08:51):
medication, of course, if thatwas still safe and appropriate
for you.
Ketil Hviding (08:55):
Can you explain what you meant by dual and
single agonist?
Tara Schmidt (08:58):
Yeah, so dual agonist.
Think of two drugs working foryou to help to decrease appetite
, increase satiety, slow downthe gut and help manage blood
sugar.
Triple agonists are adding athird let's call it ingredient
that's going to help.
Ketil Hviding (09:16):
So those are ingredients in the drug, or is
it actually taking one GPL1together with another, maybe
drug for diabetes or somethinglike that?
Tara Schmidt (09:27):
Nope, they're more like ingredients.
Now some people do combine,let's say bariatric surgery plus
a medication, but the tripleagonists are just a different
class of medications.
Ketil Hviding (09:37):
Okay, sorry.
David Liss (09:41):
Is Zepbound a triple agonists?
Tara Schmidt (09:43):
Yeah, like chizepatide.
Ketil Hviding (09:44):
Yeah sure I actually.
You know, as we all probablyknow, quite a few people who are
on these drugs.
It seems like the side effectcan be actually quite strong.
But I would actually challengeyou and say maybe those are the
effects.
You know you don't feel good inmeat, so it really punishes you
.
Tara Schmidt (10:02):
I agree that it's part of it.
So there are some physicianswho will prescribe these
medications and at the same timeprescribe an anti-emetic and
anti-nausea medication, becausewe know that people struggle
with nausea.
And there are other physicianswho say I'm not giving you an
anti-emetic, your nausea isessentially part of the
mechanism of action of this drugand of course there's a
(10:25):
learning curve for portions andfrequency of eating.
But yeah, I agree with you.
Hopefully it's not a punishmentbut, as with bariatric surgery,
I kind of tell people likethere will be a learning curve
for you to understand whathunger feels like for you, what
fullness or satiety feels likefor you.
And some of them are juststraight up side effects of the
drug or of the weight lossthemselves.
(10:46):
But I agree that some of themare somewhat helpful side
effects in this scenario.
David Liss (10:51):
I have a cousin and she's lost 61 pounds.
And then she knew that she'sgoing on a family trip to Hawaii
so she stopped the medicationbecause she knew she was going
to eat or wanted to eat.
While she was there she gained8 pounds and then she she's back
.
And now she's back on theMedicaid.
Ketil Hviding (11:15):
Another thing is I know someone who actually have
diabetes too and actually wasable to monitor blood sugar
quite carefully before going onone of these drugs, and it's
really one of the immediateeffects was to be able to
flatten the blood sugar, reduceall the spikes, nearly
independent of what you ate.
So actually it seems to have aneffect, over and above the
effect on what you actually eat,on how your body processes
(11:36):
sugar.
Tara Schmidt (11:36):
Yes, that's correct, and that's especially
why these started as diabetesmedications, because of their
impact on things like insulinand glucose rises after meals.
Ketil Hviding (11:47):
So let's say that you're really focusing on
losing weight.
Ben, would you say thismedication is the right option.
Tara Schmidt (11:53):
I have a conversation with my patients
about we consider themessentially kind of four
different pathways for weightloss.
So you have lifestyle good olddiet and exercise.
You have medications, andthere's a number of them, not
just GLP-1s.
We also have endoscopic,bariatric therapies, so weight
loss procedures that are doneendoscopically or down the
(12:14):
esophagus, and then we havebariatric surgery and I would
say, for people who a medicationis right would, of course,
depend on the amount of weightthat they need to lose.
I think people who strugglewith hunger, people who struggle
with cravings, people strugglewith food noise, are good
candidates and they're not agood candidate if they
anticipate using these.
(12:34):
In my mind, if they're lookingto lose five pounds, one, they
might not even qualify right viathe FDA guidelines to be
prescribed the medication.
But we really have aconversation with patients about
looking at these as long-termmedications, because obesity is
meant to be seen as a chroniccondition or chronic disease
state.
Ketil Hviding (12:53):
Yeah, can you explain what food noise is?
What's that Food noise?
Tara Schmidt (12:58):
Yeah, have any of you ever experienced just like
being in your home and not beingable to stop thinking about
food, like when's my next snack?
I just had dinner but I wonderwhat I'm going to have for
dessert.
Or like the thing where youlike, have your pantry open and
you're just staring because youknow you want something.
So literally just consistent orhigh, I should say, thoughts of
(13:19):
food.
And I think that people eitherknow that they have it and can
quickly identify that, orthey'll say like I don't know
what you're talking about andthat person doesn't have food
noise.
If they don't know what I'mtalking about in my mind, do any
of you have food noise?
I absolutely do.
Ketil Hviding (13:34):
Yeah, okay, I recognize the symptoms, but I
don't have it all the time.
I get it all the time.
Tara Schmidt (13:41):
Yeah, and of course, eating is complex, right
, it's psychological, it'sphysiological, it's
environmental, so it's more thanI don't mean to make a comment.
Ketil Hviding (13:52):
I got to speak with Tony Robbins.
I just told my wife I have somesnack, sorry, sorry.
David Liss (13:59):
I spoke with Tony Robbins once.
Tara Schmidt (14:00):
He said that food is the friend that can't say no,
or people who are like I don'tknow the last time I ate and I'm
like you don't Like I forgot toeat breakfast.
Ketil Hviding (14:09):
I'm like I've never forgotten to eat breakfast
in my life.
Some people are like that.
So I asked my wife you knowthere's some more snacks in the
house now than there used to be.
It's not really a bad snack,but I know that I have a
tendency to pick them up.
(14:29):
She's trying to hide them, butshe was not very smart at it.
So I phoned her and I said youhave to stop me from finding
that and you have to fight me.
"Aussie" Mike James (14:34):
Oh, yes, you have to fight me and stop me
.
David Liss (14:39):
Dr Kennedy, what were the most common things
related to weight and nutritionthat your patients would speak
to you about?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (14:45):
Most of it.
Well, I sort of have two typesof patients.
I have the patients who, likeTara just said, want to lose
five pounds, 10 pounds for theupcoming wedding.
Or you know that they boughtthis dress and they got to get
in it because they want toimpress somebody.
Tara Schmidt (15:03):
High school reunion.
I hear a lot.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (15:05):
High school reunion, yes, and so it's one
of those things.
So those people are one thing,and I think that for me, the
dilemma that the GLP-1s broughtout went because of their
success and people losing weightand because it was for a lot of
people it was a quick way to doit.
It helped them to forget aboutlifestyle, forget about exercise
(15:29):
, because if you just take thesedrugs you'll actually you will
lose weight.
For those who it works for Now.
So then there's the people whoare morbidly obese, the people
who's you know, people who aremorbidly obese, the people whose
you know BMI is 35 plus, kindof stuff.
They're different in that mostof them at the time, once they
(15:50):
are ready, and I would say, youhave to meet I've learned you
have to meet patients where theyare, when they're ready, they
will sort of guide you down thepath of okay, I'm ready to do
this.
I've always been a proponent.
I technically hate the worddiet because to me, diet means
that it's a, for a time, limitedperiod restriction.
(16:12):
You go back to whatever is yournormal routine, which defeats
the purpose.
I don't know what the otherterm we should use is, because
everything in the environmenthas diet attached to it, and so
I, you know, but I think thatthey work.
One of the things I have foundis it is, at least for me when I
(16:32):
was still practicing, it washarder to get people who were
just obese but who didn't havediabetes or who weren't
pre-diabetic, to get on thesedrugs, and particularly because,
you know, I was dealing with apopulation that was in the
Medicare population and soMedicare is not covering it, and
(16:55):
so and that's a largepercentage of people, you know
there's a greater percentage andTara probably will correct me
know there's a greaterpercentage, and Tara probably
will correct me, of obese peopleover 55 than they are under 25.
But probably not that much.
But I see, you know, you see itand you know it's funny now
being an older person and beinga patient and sitting in a
(17:15):
doctor's office and you see thenumber of peoples and you see
how people many offices havechanged the size of the chairs
that they put in the waitingarea.
Tara Schmidt (17:26):
It's actually a regulation that, depending on,
for example, if your clinicpractices bariatric surgery, you
will have a surveyor or anauditor come and make sure and
this is a good thing, right,especially if you're going to do
something like bariatricsurgery of does the hospital bed
?
What's the weight limit?
Are the toilets floor mountedversus wall mounted?
(17:47):
What do the seats look like inthe waiting room and in my
office?
It's kind of fascinating, butin that scenario, it's for the
patient and especially so thatthey can feel comfortable and so
that they can feel welcomed inthat environment, which is the
purpose of why they're there.
Ketil Hviding (18:02):
So one of the things that I think you
mentioned is that thesemedications are kind of forever.
Is that fully true or anychance that you can get off them
?
Tara Schmidt (18:13):
We don't know yet.
So what we do know is thatpeople who stop the medication
about one year after cessationof the drug they tend to have
regained anywhere from 50 to 66,so half to two thirds of their
weight back.
And I very commonly kind ofoveruse this scenario of what if
(18:35):
you had a patient with chronichypertension or high blood
pressure?
If you take them off theirblood pressure medication, they
will have a return of theirhypertension.
So we know that long-term usageis really the only solution we
have right now for long-termefficacy.
Now we don't have data superfar out in terms of what the
(18:57):
other options are.
It's not likely going to bestopping the drug.
If anything, it's likely to bedecreasing the dose.
Ketil Hviding (19:05):
Okay, yeah, I mean this is to some extent
related to the costs.
Obviously, these aremedications that are in high
demand and somewhat restrictedsupply, and the companies will
say we need to recoup ourinvestment in these drugs.
So even a company likeNovonogat Nordisk, who claim
(19:25):
they are for the benefit ofhumanity, they seem to have
gained a lot of money on this.
Tara Schmidt (19:34):
They're doing okay .
Ketil Hviding (19:36):
But you know, at some stage this will fall, so
they will be off, will not beprotected, the patent will not
be protected anymore and you getmore entries into the market
and you will actually reduce thecost to the cost of production
more closely.
I'm an economist, of course,but this can take time.
(19:57):
But you know, what do we knowabout actually how costly it is
to produce these costs?
Tara Schmidt (20:02):
Well, and it's complex, of course, and you know
better than I about thesecomplexities.
But another thing to consider isthat oral medication will be
coming on the market quite soon,so that could, I believe, will
vastly decrease the cost,because now we're not having to
use pens or injections.
We also have to think about thecost savings that we may end up
(20:24):
having insurance companies, forexample, because what if you no
longer have to take your bloodpressure medication because
that's resolved?
What if you no longer need aknee replacement because your
arthritis is doing better andthat was really just weight
related and that you had kneepain?
Because what if our rates ofcancer go down?
Because I think there's sevendifferent types of cancer that
(20:45):
are related to obesity.
So I think we're focused, ofcourse, on how expensive these
are right now, and it's verydifficult to get the ROI out of
it because it's so complex.
And obesity, you know you canconsider, impacts every organ
system in the body, in myopinion.
So how do we measure thebenefits and the cost savings?
(21:07):
But we're looking at a prettylike a big sticker shock when
you look at the injection itself.
Ketil Hviding (21:13):
So we are here seeing a drug that you know we
talked about the side effects.
Often those are the immediateside effects.
That might not even be sideeffects, but they be're part of
the way they work.
But you know, when I putsomething in my body on a
continuous basis, I could be alittle worried about what's the
long-term effect on my health.
Apart from the positive onethat you mentioned, maybe
(21:35):
there's some possible negativethat we haven't studied yet, or
do you have any indication whatthat could be?
Tara Schmidt (21:41):
Yeah, I think they're looking at people now,
right, so they're currentlylooking at people who are going
to be five, 10 years, et cetera,on these medications.
There is a risk, of course,with any medication that you put
in your body, but we're alsoseeing some really wonderful
benefits, right.
So we're talking about, like,the decrease in cardiovascular
risk.
These end up might being usedin addiction, for people who
(22:04):
struggle with addiction.
So, yeah, we we can at leastknow that they're going to keep
a close eye on the populationand on these medications,
especially people who end upbeing long term users.
But that takes time, right.
We have to have people on themfor a long time to get those
results.
Ketil Hviding (22:20):
I mean, are there any people who are genetically
wired to struggle with weightand despite doing everything
right, and maybe even with thesedrugs, and they're not
sufficient?
Tara Schmidt (22:33):
Yeah, I do think that genetics play a role.
How much of a role, I'm notsure we've uncovered that secret
yet, but I believe thatgenetics play a role.
I think your childhood and howyou learned about food and
nutrition play a significantrole.
I think trauma can play a role,psychology environment.
I'm a pretty big believer thatI, at least in America, live in
(22:56):
an obesogenic environment.
So it's kind of just this bigpuzzle piece like which piece of
the puzzle were you stuck with?
Like do you have the geneticsand you live in a food desert
and your education level islower, Right, so it can be
pretty complex.
But yeah, I do think thathaving the right quote unquote
puzzle is probably related toprivilege.
David Liss (23:17):
Are rates of obesity related to income or education
level?
Tara Schmidt (23:23):
They're linked especially if you think about
food access right.
So how many fast foodrestaurants are in that town
versus how many grocery stores?
What's the cost of fast foodversus what is the cost of fresh
food?
What's access like to adietician?
What's access like to awellness center?
Can kids safely ride theirbikes?
Is there a sidewalk?
(23:43):
So absolutely, there's many,many factors that play a role in
weight, but also just nutritionand wellness, that are
completely out of a person'scontrol and things have gotten
worse everywhere.
Ketil Hviding (23:59):
I gained weight in the first two years, not an
enormous amount, but I thought Iate the same thing.
It's only you know, it's that,this high fructose corn syrup
that is kind of poisoning me allthe time when I'm here.
Tara Schmidt (24:15):
I would ask you more questions.
So, even though you may havebeen eating the same things, I
would ask you what didtransportation look like for you
, right?
So were you previously walkingor riding your bike, or even
taking the train, and now you'resitting in your car and sitting
in rush hour for multiple hoursa day?
Even if you were eating thesame foods, I would ask you if
your portions were different.
(24:36):
We're not real good at smallportions in the US, small
portions in the US.
Added sugar, added fats, allthe foods that make, all the
things that make food taste good, access to food, accessibility,
normalizing eating in variousaspects of your life or
environment so there's a longlist for anything, I think.
Ketil Hviding (24:57):
The French would focus a lot on the rhythm of
food intake, so they have veryregimented times when they eat.
So you eat a very smallbreakfast it might be quite
sweet but it's very small andthen you eat lunch, and that's
about 1230 all over the countryand then there might be a little
boutique, what they call, andthen there's dinner and they can
be a little later.
(25:17):
In between that it's formedupon to snack.
That actually helps quite a lot, although it's not.
You know, they drink a lot ofwine to that, so that's not so
good.
Tara Schmidt (25:36):
We do know that the higher frequency of eating
you have in most cases unlessyou're tracking et cetera and
you can do that math yourselfbut in most cases the higher
frequency of eating someone has,the more calories they will
consume.
Frequency of eating someone has, the more calories they will
consume.
That's again kind of what Ilove, just like calories in type
things, because most peopledon't adjust their next meal
even though they had a snack, ordon't stop their meal halfway
through with the anticipation ofhaving a snack, so it tends to
(25:56):
just be additive as opposed toadjusted.
"Aussie" Mike James (26:00):
Okay, tara, before we move on to wellness
and diet culture, I've just gota couple for you just off the
top of my head.
When we're talking in thebodybuilding world, they often
refer to creatine as an aid.
Does that help in weight loss,or is that purely muscle
building?
Tara Schmidt (26:15):
Creatine is actually one of the most studied
supplements out there, so I amfamiliar that it's pretty well
studied and it does have somebenefit to it.
I'm not sure if there's goodevidence for weight loss per se
All right Another one.
Ketil Hviding (26:31):
I was told by my trainer that because I was going
actually during the competitionwhere they were weighing you in
, that an immediate effect ofcreatine would be to increase
weight, because of water.
Yeah, water.
But I mean that's just atechnical thing, yeah,
temporarily.
"Aussie" Mike James (26:49):
Also, there's a lot of talk and I've
seen various conflictingresearch on diet sodas that they
can actually have the oppositeeffect of what they're
advertising that they actuallyput on weight.
Do you have any comments onthat?
Tara Schmidt (27:04):
My comment would be not mathematically, because
zero is zero, but I do ask mypatients when you consume an
artificial sweetener, whensomething contains an artificial
sweetener, how do you react?
And I truly think there are twocamps here of if I have an
artificial sweetener.
Someone said it's kind of likeputting water in your gas tank,
(27:25):
Like it looks full but it's notgoing to do anything for you,
and so your car expects that itshould be able to go, but it
doesn't, right, you're notgetting a blood sugar rise,
you're not getting immediateenergy.
So I do think there are somepeople who will then go seek out
actual sugar.
They'll go seek out that bloodsugar rise.
They'll go seek out thatincrease in energy.
I also think there are peoplewho have a diet soda and say
(27:49):
that's what I needed.
I just needed that hyper kindof very sweet taste on my tongue
and now I feel good and canmove on with their day.
So I actually would have aone-on-one conversation to ask
you or experiment a little bitwith how you react to those.
Ketil Hviding (28:04):
So what about?
So I've read.
Of course I'm like everybodyelse looking at the internet and
stuff, but the artificialsweetener might have some
negative effect on your gutculture.
And those might be importantfor your overall health and how
you eat and cravings importantfor the overall health and how
you eat and cravings and all ofthat.
Tara Schmidt (28:25):
Yeah, artificial sweeteners have been linked to,
we could say, maybe poor gutmicrobiome outcomes or poor gut
health.
So what I prefer to talk about,of course, is then what has
positive impact on the gutmicrobiome 30 different kinds of
plants and fiber and all of theabove.
But yeah, I've heard that aswell.
"Aussie" Mike James (28:45):
Okay, and finally, I mean Kettle alluded
there when you're talking aboutwhen he first came to America
and thought he was eating thesame food, but I guess that
relates to recording your foodor diarizing your food.
I swear by I think it's a greatapp is MyFitnessPal, that we
record your daily intake of foodand so forth.
Tara Schmidt (29:04):
You're supposed to say Mayo Clinic diet Mike.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:06):
Mayo Clinic .
I was just going to ask you.
Tara Schmidt (29:09):
You misspoke accidentally.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:11):
Okay.
So what was it again?
Mayo Clinic.
There is an app that records.
Yes, mayo Clinic, okay.
David Liss (29:19):
We'll be sure and put that in the.
Tara Schmidt (29:21):
I'll get you a free account.
"Aussie" Mike James (29:22):
I'm not now off MyFitnessPalm on the Mayo
Clinic.
All right, so now moving rightalong on wellness and diet
culture, I'll hand you over theday for a couple of questions
you may have.
David Liss (29:31):
Yeah Well, I think one thing I just kind of in the
news lately this is kind of alittle bit of a tangent, but
we're seeing a lot of thingsabout the last day or two about
sugar and Coke as opposed tohigh fructose corn syrup, and I
don't know if that is any kindof a victory.
It's sugar, you know, and Idon't know that we need to be
having much sugar regardless.
(29:52):
We have too much as individualsand as a society.
Tara Schmidt (29:57):
I was quoted an article yesterday on this and
the article is a bit politicalso I'd prefer to not share it
because I don't want people onthe other side of the party to
come at me.
But my clinical, non-politicalopinion, which is exactly what I
gave I did not know it wasgoing to be spun politically is
that sugar is sugar.
Is sugar in this scenario?
(30:18):
Right?
So high fructose corn syrup isbrown sugar is white sugar, is
molasses, is honey, is canesugar is what we've got them all
?
Right, because in soda, whichis what we're talking about,
they're still ultra processed,right?
So this is not someone likechewing on sugar cane.
(30:38):
I think panda bears maybe dothat, but they're the only ones
that I know that are actuallyeating this in its natural form.
So if we're going to talk aboutregular soda, in my mind
regular soda is regular soda.
So that was my take on that andagain, we could all use less
sugar.
Ketil Hviding (30:57):
So the quote was sugar is sugar, is sugar?
Something like that.
Tara Schmidt (31:01):
Yeah, I said added sugar is added sugar is added
sugar.
We're more eloquent.
But yes, they did grab that one.
David Liss (31:08):
One of the things that you've spoken and written
about is weight stigma, and whatrole does weight stigma play in
how people experience care andhow people feel about themselves
?
Tara Schmidt (31:18):
I think it's really complex.
Unfortunately, one of theplaces that people face weight
stigma the most is actually intheir medical care, and we could
even reference what we weretalking about and if you go to a
waiting room and there's not achair that fits your body.
So weight stigma is reallydifficult because people
experience it in theirday-to-day lives.
(31:40):
They experience it inopportunities, or lack thereof,
for employment, in their senseof belonging in society.
People that I've learned theworst stories from are people
who've actually undergonedramatic weight loss.
I work a lot with bariatricsurgery patients.
David Liss (31:55):
In what way?
What kind of things do you see?
Tara Schmidt (31:58):
I had a woman once tell me that people open doors
for her now and I said what doyou mean by that?
And she said when I'm out inpublic, people open doors for me
.
And I said didn't they open thedoor for you before?
And she said, no, they didn'tNow.
That medical provider is notwrong in that excess
(32:25):
gravitational load on a joint isimpactful, but I had a patient
once who had cancer.
She had a tumor in her knee andfelt like she was ignored.
Her knee pain and it was notbilateral, but her knee pain was
ignored for a very, very longtime because they kept telling
her it was related to her weight.
So those are my worst examples,but profound examples, of
(32:49):
weight bias.
David Liss (32:52):
So we read somewhere they called obesity the last
acceptable form ofdiscrimination.
Tara Schmidt (32:58):
Yes, and it's more acceptable because people think
that it's in our control, right?
So the color of skin that youhave is the color of skin that
you were born with.
You did not choose that andthat's obviously.
There's racism and that's notacceptable.
More ideally, not going in oursociety anymore.
(33:18):
But weight bias is acceptedbecause people think that
obesity is a choice of theycould do something about it.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (33:32):
I actually would interject.
I had a patient once who shewas 5'2 and 326 pounds and she
was going to her brother'swedding and the airline would
not.
She bought one ticket, but theairline told her you need to buy
two tickets.
We will not let you fly on thisairline unless you buy two
(33:58):
tickets.
And this sort of ties into whatobesity, the effects it has on
your mental health and wellness.
Tara Schmidt (34:10):
Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (34:11):
It can be quite disruptive.
And what does happen?
Because it's funny when you atleast I know with me when I talk
in detail with some of myreally obese patients, the first
thing they tell you is I don'treally eat a lot and you know so
.
Then I asked them.
I said well, you need to do afood diary, you need to tell me
(34:35):
everything that you eat for aweek and put it in, put a time
in it.
They were always surprisedbecause they were technically
snacking and because in theculture that they grew up,
eating was sitting in front of atable with the rest of the
family.
You eat a full meal and thenyou go on, but they don't
consider snacking as part ofeating.
Tara Schmidt (34:59):
And this is exactly what Mike was bringing
up with self-monitoring before Iyelled at him and yes, mike,
regardless of the app that youuse, or a post-it note for all I
care, right, I don't care howyou do it, but self-monitoring
tends to be one of the numberone predictors of long-term,
successful weight loss.
And you can do calories, youcan do carbohydrate choices, you
(35:21):
can do fruits and vegetables.
You can just keep tally of howmany glasses of wine you had if
that's your source of excesscalories.
But when you have to write itdown, you have greater
self-awareness.
It's not me telling you, asyour friendly neighborhood
dietitian, what you should haveor shouldn't have eaten that day
.
You're just ideally beingneutral and recording what
(35:41):
you're sticking in your mouthand you're going to have some
awareness of like oh, had acookie with my coffee this
morning, which is exactly what Idid because the neighbor
brought them over.
But if I had to write that downevery single morning, we'd have
a problem.
"Aussie" Mike James (35:55):
Something applies to exercise People who
tend to write that down everysingle morning.
We'd have a problem.
Same thing applies to exercisePeople who tend to write down
their exercise makes them muchmore accountable.
Okay, dave, you had a finalquestion, I think there.
David Liss (36:07):
Okay, well, so can you talk about your work
debunking misinformation onsocial media?
And why do we believe in thesethings so easily, from showers
to diets, to God knows what?
Tara Schmidt (36:21):
It's engaging, right.
People who are good at socialmedia are good at social media
for a reason and they make a lotmore money, unfortunately, than
I do.
It's eye catching, it can beshocking, right?
Or the article or the cover ofthe New York Times is meant to
be engaging so that someone buysyour magazine.
It can be appealing results.
(36:41):
It can be scandalous.
It's interesting, right, andthat's what entertainment is.
Comparison is pretty boring.
Like eat your fruits andvegetables.
Everyone Like record what youeat and it hasn't changed that
much.
And people don't like that.
So if I tell you, hey, do youremember what you learned in
(37:02):
second grade about nutrition, 85, 90% of that's true.
Like, just go, do that.
It's not going to sellmagazines that's not interesting
, but it is true.
Magazines that's notinteresting, but it is true.
So I think it's more of justthe excitement around new diet,
new food, new toxin, new methodfor what we're looking for,
(37:27):
right.
And we also want things very,very quickly and I think
misinformation on social mediatends to promise things very,
very quickly.
"Aussie" Mike James (37:36):
I also found that it's.
I've probably spent too muchtime on YouTube, but I find that
it's really adopting some ofthe old tabloid newspaper
methods.
Every one of their it's aheadline and the video may have
nothing to do with it it mighthave one line in there, but it
attracts an attention and peoplemight get on this thing for 30
seconds or something at most,but they've still seen that
(37:58):
headline and that is how itcreates misinformation.
I think it's really employingold methods in a new field in
terms of communication.
Tara Schmidt (38:06):
And it gets your click right.
You clicked on it, yeah, andthat's all they're concerned
about.
"Aussie" Mike James (38:10):
That's all they're concerned about.
They're not concerned about thePeople In the American people
have short-term interests, youhave to catch them.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:21):
If you just look at any news feed that's on
, they pretty much do everythingin cycles of three to five
minutes yeah, and nothing more.
If it goes beyond that, youtend to lose your audience,
because it's hard to keep themengaged.
Ketil Hviding (38:35):
In addition, now the algorithm can tailor it to
you.
So they have seen that I'vebeen Googling a lot about how to
lose weight.
They will send me a lot of youknow information about that,
that 90% of it is not correctand you know the tailoring is
(38:57):
the new thing.
That is really powerful.
Tara Schmidt (38:59):
It's impeccable.
I Googled where I was going onvacation because I wanted to see
a picture and I was justbombarded with like the whole
world knows where it is rightnow Because I was getting
advertisements and articles andmath yeah, it was.
I was like, ok, well, that'snot a secret anymore.
"Aussie" Mike James (39:17):
Maybe we can hand over to Dr K for some
questions on practical nutritionfor daily life and longevity.
Oh yeah, yes, Tara.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:24):
So you've talked about nutrient density
and what would you say would beyour go-to framework for
building a balanced plate.
Tara Schmidt (39:34):
Yeah, I do what we we've done for the past.
We're going on about 15 yearswith with the government's plate
method and I don't disagreewith it and and that's half or
more fruits and vegetables.
Variety would be key in thelong term.
A source of protein, be it leananimal or plantbased protein, a
source of whole grain or adifferent starchy plant.
(39:57):
And if you'd like some kind ofcalcium in your diet and if you
want some extra fruit or veggiesin there, we kind of consider
those to be unlimited.
So this is why I don't have ahuge social media following,
because I say boring answerslike that, but that it works
right and that's like the goodand the bad news of it is like
it's not overly complex, but Ithink people want it to be.
Ketil Hviding (40:19):
Yeah, so you should.
I could eat that much fruit andvegetables.
No, no fruit.
You said fruit, yeah.
Tara Schmidt (40:25):
You know?
Here's what I said Unlimitedvegetables for everyone.
Ketil Hviding (40:29):
Okay, go nuts Fruit.
Tara Schmidt (40:32):
I I actually tend to say I've had maybe one
patient in my career who I hadto say back off on the fruit One
they were blending it in asmoothie, also had high
triglycerides, etc.
But 99 out of 100 people, I'mgoing to say, are not eating
enough fruit.
So it's extremely rare that Iwould limit you.
(40:54):
Now, if you have diabetes, I'mgoing to pair it with a meal.
We're going to make sure thatyou count it as part of your
carbohydrate sources.
Outside of that, I'm reallydoubtful that you're eating too
much.
There are a million other foodsthat I would say let's put on
the brakes.
Before I've ever told someonelike hey, dr Kennedy, I think
you had too many apples today.
(41:14):
I also think they'reself-limiting.
Like are you really going toeat 10 bananas?
You're going to be constipatedas heck.
First of all, I just don'tthink you're going to eat 10 of
them.
But can I eat 10 handfuls ofpretzels or chips Like you?
Betcha, see you there.
Ketil Hviding (41:28):
Yeah.
So what about the littledessert at the end of the meal?
Anything fit well, I just gotpermission, yeah, yeah comment
on thatso I you know because I I
actually followed someone whoactually was tracking the
glucoses and it really and andyou know the the theory that it
works, it posts where it saysvery different at the end of the
(41:51):
meal than at the beginning ofthe meal is actually pretty true
.
So if you eat a little bit ofsweet at the end of all
vegetables or fruits, they will,you know.
At least you don't get the samespikes.
Tara Schmidt (42:03):
Yeah, or like if someone had diabetes and they
said can I never have a cookieagain?
I would actually say have acookie with your lunch, because
now you have protein Ideally inthat lunch.
You obviously have some fiberin there.
You have other foods in thestomach that will slow digestion
instead of just having a cookieon an empty stomach.
So, yeah, I would say put thesweet with the meal.
(42:26):
I don't really care necessarilyabout the timing of it, but if
you can put it on the plate andconsider it to be okay, that's
one of my carbohydrate choices.
Or instead of a grain, I'mgoing to have a cookie.
Ok, now we swapped those 15carbs out of there.
That actually is a method thatI am absolutely comfortable with
.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (42:43):
So what are some of the common healthy
foods that you think aremisunderstood or that people
don't think they are as healthyas the establishment believe?
Tara Schmidt (42:56):
I'm not a huge fan of bars.
I think a lot of they'reconvenient and I absolutely
understand that, but I think ifyou look at the nutrition label
of many of them, they're goingto be like a healthified or a
glorified candy bar in my mind.
I also think there is kind of alot of unnecessary protein
(43:19):
products out there, like proteinchips.
We've got protein popcorn andI'm okay if you have chips and
especially popcorn in your life,but does it need to be protein?
I'd rather you have like actualpopcorn that you pop.
That's technically a wholegrain, right.
And now we've got maybe ahealthy omega-3 or a little bit
(43:40):
of omega-6 fatty acid in there.
But if we get into proteinpopcorn and protein chips and I
saw protein cookies out therenow we're just going further
down the ultra-processed foodaisle or route processed food
aisle or route and I think wehave some very strong evidence
that our high consumption ofultra processed food is
absolutely going to impact ourhealth.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (44:00):
And for someone who's trying to make one
change to improve their eatinghabits, what's the most powerful
first step one can make?
Tara Schmidt (44:10):
Take stock in what you're currently doing, right.
So I could say, hey, my bestadvice is for you to stop
drinking alcohol, but what ifyou never drank alcohol in the
first place?
Then that's not good advice,but for someone else it might be
hugely meaningful.
I could say I need you to starteating more vegetables.
What if that person already hasvegetables six times a day?
(44:31):
That's not relevant to them.
So what I really want people todo as their first step is kind
of like what Mike was talkingabout is what are you currently
doing and where do you think Ilook for excess empty calories?
So these are one calories thatwe don't need, but they're also
calories that are not providingyou with nutrition.
And start there.
Are you drinking any water?
(44:52):
That's a great goal.
Are you moving your body at allduring the day?
That's a great goal.
But take stock in your currenthabits before you make that
decision.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (45:02):
So how much water?
Is too much water in a day, ifthere is such a thing?
Tara Schmidt (45:08):
There is because you can get you know you can get
water toxicity.
I think we saw a really tragiccase of that at a raft hazing
incident.
"Aussie" Mike James (45:16):
Yes, that's true.
Tara Schmidt (45:17):
Sometimes it can happen with athletes if they're
not also pairing it withelectrolytes, etc.
So for me it depends on yourbody size, Also your sweating,
If you're sweating, if you'reexercising, if you're in a very,
very hot environment.
How we tell people to assesstheir hydration is by looking at
the color of their urine.
(45:37):
There's really not a bettertest.
So we like light lemonade,politely speaking, or straw
color.
If it's darker than that,you're probably dehydrated and
especially as the day goes on,it should lighten up.
It does not need to be clear.
So we're looking for paleyellow and if it's more
concentrated than that, havesome water in your life.
"Aussie" Mike James (45:57):
And is clear urine.
Is there any bad indication ofthat, tara, if your urine is
clear?
Tara Schmidt (46:01):
I don't think so, unless we're getting into that
water toxicity range.
I don't think it's not to myknowledge.
I just don't think it has to bethe goal per se.
"Aussie" Mike James (46:11):
What about Dr K?
What do you think of that?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (46:13):
Clear no again, I think it depends on the
situation.
So if you have an and notnecessarily an athlete, just
someone who's out and aboutworking out on a regular basis,
I always tell people when you'reyoung, you can get away with
not being as hydrated as you arewhen you're 35 plus, because
(46:34):
you're you know, I thinkeverybody's metabolism changes
as we age and what we used to beable to eat, um, when we were
younger, and how we could burncalories, you know almost just
by thinking.
It changes over time and youhave to compensate for that.
I always tell people they needto listen, because most of us
(46:56):
know when we're thirsty, most ofus know when I think it's more
complex when you're older,because you don't have the same
reaction to dehydration thatyour reactions tend to be you
pass out, you fall down Whereaswhen you're 18, 20, you know
your reactions tend to be youpass out, you fall down, whereas
(47:17):
when you're 18, 20, you can getdizzy pretty quickly,
lightheaded pretty quickly, andso you know the change.
You know, and I've always been aproponent of water and I've had
enough personal experiences inmy life when I didn't get
hydrated enough and theconsequences are dire, you know,
(47:40):
like fracturing half my face.
So yeah, so it's, I think it'sa it's it's.
It's very important to drinkenough, and I always say
technically if you were toliterally put an ivy in most
people and rather take anintravenous line and just draw
(48:01):
out all the liquid out of it,all that would be left would be
30 of us, because our body, inthe healthy person 70, is water
by weight okay, all right.
"Aussie" Mike James (48:13):
Dr k, do you have any other questions to
finish off here?
No, I'm pretty good.
Ketil Hviding (48:17):
Yes, I have a question.
So on the, there's a fad, it'scalled intermittent fasting.
What do you?
Tara Schmidt (48:25):
think about that.
Ketil Hviding (48:25):
What do you think about?
Tara Schmidt (48:26):
There is actually some good evidence for you can
call it intermittent fasting ortime-restricted eating, but it
doesn't need to be overlydramatic.
I had an endocrinologist on thepodcast and had a full episode
on it.
I believe that she said we seethe most benefit when we fast
(48:47):
for at least 12 to 14 hours.
So that leaves a 10 to 12 houreating window, which I think is
quite reasonable.
But if you think about people'skind of nighttime habits it can
get complicated.
But I do think, and again so Ithink a reasonable eating window
(49:08):
.
There are some benefits becauseI think your body just needs
time when it's not digestingfood.
It's also not likely necessarythat you have that many calories
or that you're eating that lateat night.
So I know that it became quitepopularized, kind of in a fad
diet type way.
But we also have some prettygood actual evidence to support
(49:32):
limiting your eating window.
Ketil Hviding (49:34):
So nighttime fasting would count.
So let's say I eat at seveno'clock at night and next
morning I don't eat before eight.
That's pretty good.
Okay, and it's breakfast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (49:44):
That's what it means, breaking the fast An
interesting Ramadan where peoplefrom sunrise to sunset they
take nothing in, but if you'veever been around people in the
evenings when they're havingthat one meal that they're
having, and.
I always used to be surprised,having had a lot of Muslim
(50:05):
patients, how most of them,during Ramadan, never lost any
weight.
They really had some feastswhere you almost make up for all
of what you didn't do duringsun's daylight hours at night.
That's interesting.
Tara Schmidt (50:23):
Yeah, and that's a good comment on.
If someone asks me aboutintermittent fasting or if
they're experimenting with it.
You know, if people are tryingto sneak in their last snack
before their time is cut off,I'm like, ok, intermittent
fasting is probably just not agood fit for you.
But moving your dinner earlierand not eating after dinner,
(50:44):
like those are very reasonablehabits that we don't have to
call intermittent fasting, likeit doesn't have to have a name
associated with it.
"Aussie" Mike James (50:52):
All right, folks, as we start to wind up
after Tara spent such a longtime with us, which we really
appreciate, of course, just acouple of almost rapid fire
questions, if you like.
Tara, what's a nutrition beliefyou've held before that you
probably changed your mind aboutover the years?
Tara Schmidt (51:07):
I have admittedly been judgmental about let's call
them diets or fad diets outthere that I did not think were
necessary.
I did not think that they weremedically backed or had any good
research behind them, and inrecent years I have adopted more
of a sense of you know what,tara.
(51:27):
If it works for that person,why do you care?
So I'm trying to be more matureabout letting people.
But like before, my dieticianheart was like no, but that's
not the good one, like I don'twant you to do that.
Ketil Hviding (51:39):
And I'm trying to just Eating meat is okay if
that works for you.
Tara Schmidt (51:43):
If what.
Ketil Hviding (51:43):
Just eating meat, bad meat.
Tara Schmidt (51:45):
Did you see the YouTube video of the girl
yelling?
Okay, that one's not myfavorite.
No, it's not my favorite.
What favorite?
No, it's not my favorite.
"Aussie" Mike James (51:55):
What's one thing you wish everyone knew
about their health?
Tara.
Tara Schmidt (51:57):
It's individual, so please individualize your
choices and your goals to you.
A second one, if I can have two, would be one bite can make a
difference in a good way of likeadding one bite of a plant or
fruit or a vegetable or a beanover time can compound to
(52:18):
benefits.
"Aussie" Mike James (52:19):
Okay.
It's like in the book AtomicHabits.
He talks about that, doingsmall things at a time.
If you had one minute withsomeone standing in front of a
fridge at 10 pm, who's talking?
Was that, sorry, kettle?
Was that you?
Okay, all right.
Again, if you had one minutewith someone standing in front
of the fridge at 10 pm debatinga binge or maybe a beer, talking
(52:43):
personally, what would you say?
Go to?
Tara Schmidt (52:45):
bed.
"Aussie" Mike James (52:45):
Okay.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (52:48):
Or if you really want me to do that, I
could do my counseling.
Ketil Hviding (52:53):
I would go to bed if you told me that.
Tara Schmidt (52:54):
like that I have small kids, can you?
tell I would have bowed my headand I would kind of sneak, snuck
up to bed, my mom voice comingout yes, exactly.
Or I could say, mike, what youlooking for, and what I mean by
that, is are you hungry Like?
Is your stomach actuallytelling you that it's empty and
(53:15):
you're getting a sign that youneed something in your stomach?
Are you bored?
Are you seeking comfort?
Is this habit?
Are you just in the pantry?
Because that's in the same openconcept space as your living
room and that's where you'rewatching TV.
Then I'd say, go watch TV inyour bedroom, because I'm
assuming you don't drink beer inbed and if you do, no judgment.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:36):
I love it, that's a whole other podcast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (53:39):
No, you're getting it.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:41):
I'm picking on you.
Ketil Hviding (53:42):
We're Australian, we're not drinking beer.
You know we drink beereverywhere.
"Aussie" Mike James (53:47):
That's a very bad cultural stereotype,
it's true.
Yeah, it is, but we always liketo leave our listeners with,
you know, two or threeactionable items just to finish
off For a good, healthynutrition plan.
Is it two or threerecommendations you think could
just point us in the rightdirection, tara?
Tara Schmidt (54:05):
Think about what you can add to your diet.
So much of what's out there isabout stop eating this, don't
eat that, right.
Quit X, y or Z, and it's somuch more fun to add.
So can you add some fruits orvegetables to your life, right?
Can you add some more fish toyour diet?
Can you add some olive oil whenyou're going to cook your
dinner tonight?
(54:25):
So add instead of subtract.
Before you make a change, assessyour current habits and what
would actually be a realistic,meaningful change for you versus
what the very attractiveTikToker told you to do.
And third would be look at howyour environment is playing a
(54:46):
role.
Right, and this is not like youcan't have ice cream in the
freezer.
But if you didn't have icecream in the freezer, would you
have eaten it at 10 o'clock atnight?
What if you had to get in yourcar and go drive to the gas
station?
Most of us wouldn't do that.
So are there ways in which youcan adapt your environment?
Adding things to your fridgepre-cut vegetables, right.
Or subtracting things from yourfridge or pantry that help
(55:09):
support your wellness goals.
"Aussie" Mike James (55:11):
Terrific.
That's very unique advice.
Really, I think that'll bereally beneficial to all of us.
So, in closing up, that's awrap on this inspiring
conversation with Tara Schmidt.
A huge thanks to you, tara, forjoining us today.
I know you've got a very busytime, so thank you very much for
joining us.
It's very beneficial for all ofus.
Thank you for having me it wasa pleasure Terrific.
(55:33):
And we'll get onto that MayoClinic app right as soon as we
finish here, thank you.
So, folks, if you found thisepisode valuable, hit, follow on
your podcast app so you nevermiss what's next, and if someone
in your life could benefit fromthis, share it with them.
It helps grow our community andspark new conversations.
(55:53):
Hit, like and share so we get ahit on a logarithm, or whatever
you call it, and you'll findlinks to Tara's podcast, mayo
Clinic on Nutrition, plus moreof her content, in the episode
description.
So, until next time, staycurious, stay kind, and stay
well.
Thank you, folks.
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