December 31, 2024 • 41 mins
What if you could revolutionize skincare for women of color by addressing a glaring gap in medical education? On this episode of the Wellness Musketeers podcast, we welcome Sheena Franklin, the visionary founder of K'ept, as she tackles the monumental challenge of health disparities in dermatology. With a startling revelation that less than 3% of medical textbook images cover skin conditions on skin of color, Sheena shares how her company is taking bold steps with tele-dermatology to fill this void. We'll unpack the complexities of forming academic partnerships and crafting a comprehensive dataset that aids physicians at the crucial point of care, ultimately aiming to reduce the burden on dermatologists and enhance healthcare outcomes for women.
As our conversation unfolds, we delve into the historical mistrust communities of color face in healthcare, rooted in injustices like the Tuskegee Study and the story of Henrietta Lacks. Sheena discusses how K'ept is leveraging technology to foster an environment of trust, enabling women to safely share skincare data in their own spaces. We also confront the systemic changes needed in the healthcare industry to genuinely engage with marginalized communities, examining how familiar methods like photo data collection can reduce misdiagnosis and improve health conditions that disproportionately affect women.
Rounding out our discussion, we explore the promising yet challenging frontier of telemedicine and AI in skincare. Sheena envisions a future where these technologies are seamlessly integrated into places like pharmacies and retailers, bringing skincare solutions closer to those who need them most. We'll touch on the logistical hurdles of tele-dermatology, the critical role of dermatologists in initial assessments, and K'ept's ambitious goal of reaching a million women. Join us as we face the broader issues of trust, poverty, and accessibility in healthcare, and discover how slow but steady progress can lead to more inclusive solutions for everyone.
Learn more about K'ept Health and Sheena Franklin's work:
- K'ept Health App
- Sheena D. Franklin Website
- The Velvet Lab Newsletter: Women's Health, Femtech, & Technology In Healthcare
Contact Wellness Musketeers:
Email Dave at davidmliss@gmail.com with comments, questions, and suggestions for future guests.
Follow us on our social media:
Support our Sponsor:
- Elite Sports: https://www.elitesports.com
Subscribe to our newsletter:
- Contact our co-host "Aussie" Mike James and sign up for our newsletter: Wellness Musketeers Newsletter
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sheena Franklin (00:11):
Less than 3% is the images in medical textbooks
show skin conditions on skin ofcolor.
Unless a doctor is doing theirresidency in a city that has a
higher population of skin ofcolor, they're not going to
naturally have that expertise.
Dave Liss (00:39):
Welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast,
your guide to navigating theworld of health, wellness and
the art of living.
I'm your host, dave Liss, ajournalist and podcaster based
in Washington DC, joined by myco-host, dr Richard Kennedy, an
internist with over 36 years ofclinical expertise.
In a world inundated withwellness advice, we aim to
(01:01):
provide actionable strategies tohelp you thrive.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Sheena Franklin, a
trailblazing senior healthcarepublic policy professional and
women's health advocate.
Sheena is a founder of KEPT, agroundbreaking digital
healthcare company, and thefourth behind the health
advocacy initiative.
All in, join us as Sheena sharesinsights into CAPT's business
(01:25):
and strategic growth objectivesand shed light on the critical
health need and disparitiesfacing women and their families
across the United States.
Sheena will guide us throughCAPT's business and strategic
growth objective and help us tobetter understand the needs and
health disparities that womenand their families endure across
the United States.
(01:46):
Before we begin, pleaseremember to subscribe wherever
you listen to this podcast and,if you're there, please also
give us a review.
Five stars do amazing thingsfor the podcast and we'll keep
bringing you all the differentgurus in the health and wellness
faith to explain to you all thedifferent ways you can live
your best life.
(02:06):
And with that, here's ourconversation with Sheena
Franklin.
Sheena Franklin (02:11):
So less than 3% is the images in medical
textbooks that show skinconditions on skin of color.
Unless a doctor, dermatologist,is doing their residency in a
city that has a higherpopulation of skin of color,
they're not gonna naturally havethat expertise right.
(02:32):
And so that's what we'retalking about.
And then I'm ronald is thatwhen we first started out, you
know we thought we would be ableto use open source, you know,
data, data, research, that wecould partner with different
academic institutions, but whatwe quickly find out that there
was just a dearth of like dataon skin of color images, and so
(02:54):
it became well, how do we tacklethat?
Is it necessary?
How do we do that?
And so, in order for us toactually have the
teledermatology platform that wewanted to have, that we need to
figure out how do we build outthis data set.
So that's one of the things thatwe're doing, so that physicians
can have the recommendations.
You know, at the point of carethat, yes, or like, this is the
(03:16):
skin disease severity level.
Well, this is also the skintone.
And then, also because we focusa lot on women, we look at the
underlying health emissions.
That may be, you know, likejust like a little
recommendation, but not havingour AI replace the physician,
we're like, we're all about,like how do we make the
physician you know more precise?
(03:38):
Like kind of decrease thatburden that they have of being
overworked, and then just havingit right there, because what we
found out a lot of times whenwe were doing research with
dermatologists, they werepulling up like six different
screens, like in the office,trying to figure it out, and
then, like having them go tonotebooks where we're like, ok,
let's just make it right therebased on that patient and
(03:59):
everything comes to you so youdon't have to figure it all out.
Peace, malik, tell that to R.
Smell it, yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (04:06):
So can I ask a silly question you guys
reach out to the HowardMorehouses and Maharis of the
world, and what will theirresponse?
Because one would think almostall of them are in regions where
there's a large percentage ofpeople of color.
(04:27):
And you would think that?
Because, to me, as a physician,one of the things that has
always been the issue is there'sstudies going on all the time,
everywhere, but for people ofcolor, the access then first of
all, there has to be a way forthem to be made aware that it's
(04:48):
even there you have to getthrough.
The bias that exists is that wedon't trust the healthcare
system and that the first thingyou look at is that any research
on us is I'm being used as theguinea pig for some nefarious
thing.
I was wondering how, when youreached out to them, to the
(05:10):
Howards, the historically blackinstitutions, what was their
response?
Because one would think that ifanybody has access to a greater
cadre of people of color, theyhave.
Sheena Franklin (05:27):
Yeah, so we talked to Howard.
So one of my advisors, who's inthe company, is a professor
over at Howard, and so we gotvery far along in conversations
and, disappointingly, theydecided to work with GW so a
(05:47):
professor that actually was asponsor for me to get funding
for the National ScienceFoundation.
So he decided that he wanted tocreate a database of images
that are only going to be usedfor education purposes, that are
only going to be used foreducation purposes.
So they are working with him tobuild out this system, which
(06:12):
creates like we were trying towork together.
But because they're collectingthis for education, it can't be
used for commercial reasons,right?
So like there's all thesestipulations, right.
And so then, you know, I have,like the Eli Lillies of the
world coming to me like, hey,can you provide us with images?
And I'm like, well, not yet,but you know, maybe in the
(06:35):
future, because they have thatsame problem too, it's like we
need.
They were doing a big study oncontact dermatitis and they just
didn't have enough images.
A big study on contactdermatitis and they just didn't
have enough images, and so it'sjust a big scope.
So they decided to work withthat institution instead of
working with.
That's what happened.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (06:54):
Okay.
Sheena Franklin (06:55):
That's probably another different type of
podcast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (06:57):
But yeah, but it's the thing is important
to know, because the it sure isfine.
It creates the difficulty ofwhat you're trying to do and
sort of try to target somethingthat really is not present out
in the community.
You always find a way to saywell, how is it that we keep
(07:20):
talking about the healthdisparity?
Keep talking about the healthdisparities?
You know, you hear about it onCapitol Hill, you hear about it
in every institution andeverybody states how much they
want to, you know, get rid of itand eliminate it.
But they don't think they havea good plan on how to reach out.
(07:44):
Because until you reach out tothe communities affected and
make them feel welcome in someway, shape or form, health
disparities is going to continue.
Sheena Franklin (07:56):
I definitely agree Two things.
One, I think it's expensive.
To be honest, it'll beexpensive.
It's hard, and the reason makesit hard is I found working with
them and some other lifesciences companies that I was
interested in working with, youcan't use this lame model.
Right like you have to changethe model and you have to create
(08:17):
the environment where it's morecomforting.
Right like I feel like theperson who's doing the research
the nurse that is there iswelcoming to me, like you're not
just coming in this one-timeshot and then I never see you
again.
Like what are you doing beforeand after?
That's creating thisenvironment of trust.
I don't think people you know inthese communities are saying no
(08:41):
, we don't see the value inparticipating.
It's what are you doing to tellme what's going to happen, even
after this study?
Like what's going to happen?
Like I think there's like allthese nuances where people are
like just oh, just come up, wecan just have a Black woman and
she'll bring everybody and thenjust go on about our business
and who cares?
That's kind of the attitude,yeah it is.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (09:05):
It's a.
I admire you.
I respect everything you'retrying to do.
It is a monumental task to me,partly because if you just
randomly talk to any person ofcolor, whether they have an
interest in health care or not,almost everybody heard about the
Tuskegee study.
Almost everybody's heard aboutthe Tuskegee study.
Mm-hmm, or what happened towhat's the name?
(09:28):
The woman?
Sheena Franklin (09:29):
Henrietta Lack.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (09:30):
Henrietta Lack, henrietta Lack.
And so we'll find a way because, again, yeah, lots of good
information did come out of allof those things.
The problem is that one, someof it was done in secrecy
decades, and then, even afterthat had happened, the distrust
(09:58):
is just there.
It's palpable.
Sheena Franklin (10:00):
Yeah, yeah, so well for us.
There's a couple of things.
One, so we don't do clinicaltrial research Like that's my R.
That's one thing, Right.
That makes it a little biteasier for us.
The second thing that makes iteasier for us is because we're
doing skin care, whichfundamentally women are always
taking pictures of their skinanyway, Right, are always taking
(10:21):
pictures of their skin anyway,right.
We're like we'll go to Ulta,we'll go to dermatologists,
we'll go somewhere like help usfigure this out, right.
So that's kind of our approachthere, which helps us out a lot.
So like, if you go to ourmobile app, it's like we're just
helping you do what you alreadydo and we're saying, by the way
(10:42):
, because you're doing this,you're helping to expand us, to
get better care for you down theroad, Right?
So like it's that type ofattitude.
So we're not saying participatein this clinical trial.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (10:55):
OK.
Sheena Franklin (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we still go out and
educate people on you know whyit's important just to share
your data, like just why youshould share it in general, and
it's happening.
So then, how are you moreproactive when your app and your
phone is taking all your healthdata and you just really don't
(11:18):
know it in general?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (11:21):
That's very helpful.
So now, how, in the perfectworld, how do you think this
would benefit particularly women?
But, like you say, women aremore conscientious and aware of
their physical attributes andare more willing to address it
let's put it that way comparedto men.
Sheena Franklin (11:41):
Yeah, so with our company, our whole goal like
our health moonshot goal, ifyou will is to decrease the rate
of misdiagnosis of skindiseases and their underlying
health conditions thatdisproportionately impact women,
right?
So like there's all thesestudies that come out and one
(12:02):
that just came out that saiddermatologists are usually the
first people to spot, like,those illnesses because it's
impacting our hair, like hairloss Right?
So like that's our goal andthat we want to be able to
decrease that and whiledecreasing it for all women, to
make sure that women of colorare on par with their white
(12:24):
counterpart.
We're not just ignoring them.
So like that's our health likemoonshot.
Right, like on that day-to-daybasis, it's just getting women
to a quicker diagnosis, right,and getting them to a doctor
quicker.
So if it's taking people threemonths, like how can we get
someone to the doctor whenthey're on our platform within
(12:46):
24 to 48 hours to get thatinitial diagnosis and then
triage that care?
Right, and knowing thateverything can't be treated
telehealth Right, we know likehey, this is a severe issue Then
how do we get someone into thedoctor within a week?
Right, so that's like the goaland then helping them maintain
that and manage those flare ups.
(13:08):
That's our goal there.
And then, thinking about ourcompany bigger is like we're
having this data, so how do wecreate what we call like a FEM
index that has that informationthere?
And then how do we de-identifyall that data and package that
(13:28):
up so like we can help advanceresearch just in women's health,
or advance research forgovernment institutions who are
trying to appropriate funds forwomen's health and research,
right Like that stuff.
So that's our goal.
But initially, the core of whatwe do is making sure that we're
getting women care that theyneed.
(13:48):
Okay, we see it as a cycle.
Yeah, we all need each other inorder to get to the next point.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (13:57):
Good, that's actually great.
Do you also, as you mentionedearlier, getting earlier
diagnoses and getting people tobe seen in a timely fashion?
Have you already started tocreate a?
Sheena Franklin (14:10):
referral network.
Right now we have 150 doctorsand estheticians and a couple
nutritionists, dietitians aswell, and we're continuing to
grow that over time.
And one thing that I love thatwe're looking into right now is
(14:32):
how do we partner with, like theskin of color clinics, like at
the Cleveland Clinic, the MayoClinic, and to bring them into
our network as well, to expandit.
So, instead of like one doctorhere, one doctor there, one
association there, I think we'redoing that but forming those
partnerships as well.
Dave Liss (14:51):
One question I was wondering about is if I'm in
Mississippi and all of your careproviders are not in
Mississippi, can I still getcare from them on your network,
or do they have to be in mystate?
Sheena Franklin (15:05):
Yeah, so that's the law, the telemedicine law
the doctor has to be licensed inthat state.
Now say, for example, I couldhave someone on my team that may
have practiced, let's say, likein Georgia, right, and Georgia
has blanking out on the wordright now.
But you can get a multi-statelicense, but it's usually by
(15:27):
region.
So like I could have someonewho's in Florida or Georgia, but
they have a license for Florida, alabama, mississippi, right,
but they have to have thatlicense there.
So that's how we do it.
But also, we'll also providepeople a listing of names.
I say, for example, we don'thave that person, we're not in
(15:47):
Mississippi quite yet.
We will provide you with a listof vetted doctors and people
that we would say, hey, go visitthis person.
Like that's a challenge withgrowing a telehealth company,
right, it's like getting allthose ducks in a row.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (16:04):
Yeah, Since the pandemic, there are regions
and much of the United Statesis set up in sort of reciprocal
acknowledgement.
So when I was in Maryland, Ihad a license in Maryland, DC
and Virginia.
When I was in New York, I had alicense that was New York, New
(16:27):
Jersey and Connecticut.
Oh, OK, so now that I'm inTexas, you know one, because I
decided I don't want to practiceanymore.
But Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado are part of the
conglomerate.
There's a website where aphysician can go and sign up one
(16:51):
time, because the real problemin the past you'd have to
individually go to eachjurisdiction and apply for the
license.
Yeah, which pricey you know$800 to $1,500 a pop.
Sheena Franklin (17:06):
Yeah, depending on what state it is.
Absolutely yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (17:09):
And so well , what they've done now is that,
because telemedicine is here tostay and the federal government
has sort of said, yeah, thiskind of makes sense, because
there's going to be times wherepeople it would be ideal in many
respects to see someone in thelocale where you are it makes
(17:30):
perfect sense Also just todevelop a relationship, because
telemedicine has its benefits.
But if I'm in California andthe patient I'm seeing is in
Virginia, we may have awonderful time each time we go
to our television.
But in that crisis emergency inthe middle of the night at 2 am
(17:53):
, when I need an answer, now Imay have an on-call service
that'll help, but the standardreply is going to be this is an
emergency, call 911 and go tothe nearest facility and it
would make sense to havesomebody who's locally there who
can look in, look out.
Sheena Franklin (18:13):
I agree Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (18:15):
What you're undertaking is a wonderful
thing and actually you're rightThinking out of the box and not
thinking of it solely from theperspective of television, but
also a combination of in-personvisits and television.
Sheena Franklin (18:34):
Exactly it has to be.
And then, once our AI gets moremature, what we plan on
implementing is, once you startthat visit, you will scan your
skin and if, immediately, weknow like this is a high
severity case, we're going toroute you automatically to an
in-person visit.
Or if we see something like nowwe have these underlying health
(18:56):
conditions, like someone we'relike, oh, you have like a
butterfly rash, we think thismight be lupus we're going to
send you right off of theplatform.
We're not just about making abuck right, like go make enough
money Right.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're also working towards
and that also helps us reach ourmoonshot of, like decreasing
this misdiagnosis rates all theway around.
Dave Liss (19:19):
this misdiagnosis rates all the way around.
Two things I was wondering isis men a universally different
consideration, or would men besomething you would evolve into
over time and you know, I thinklike somewhere we would probably
want to talk about, like yourone, three, five year vision,
for, like you know where you arenow, where you want to grow,
(19:42):
and like articulation of sort ofthe how that would evolve into
the moonshot.
Yeah.
Sheena Franklin (19:49):
So I will say we, right now we are a women's
health focused company, justbecause there's like some health
disparities there, just ingeneral.
Now, when we look towards thefuture, yes, I want to get to
the point where we are caringfor men as well.
Obviously, that's going to takelike different branding,
different marketing, but that isa goal.
And then we also want to moveinto adolescent care as well.
(20:13):
So, like those are like thelong, like 10, 10 year goals, if
you will, for the company, andmoving to those different
patient populations and thenalso five years from now.
Basically, what we want to beable to do is I tell people you
(20:33):
know, we want to take care ofwomen today and folks today on
their mobile phones, but in thefuture at their favorite, like
pharmacy and retailer, becauseagain, we're doing the skin,
scanning the skin.
What does that look like, right?
So say, for example, let's takea rural area right, there's
always a Walmart, a Subway and aDollar General, like you can
always bet on one of those threethings, right?
So what does that mean if afarmer is coming into Walmart
(20:57):
and they do like there's a catstation there and they can have
a scan and they can go throughthe, the doctor can look at
these different things and thenthey can say, okay, now I can
schedule these visits, you know,and so I can only take one trip
.
That's going to be three hoursin the city for the doctor and I
can have the doctor can havethis information.
(21:19):
That's what that looked likefor us.
Or it can be as simple assomeone's at Sephora.
Right and Sephora, you know,they're not really trained Like,
let's just be honest right, oneweek they're at Selway, the
next week they're at Oak.
So it's like they're scanningtheir skin.
They're like, oh okay, like wethink this will help you with
(21:40):
your condition.
You can set up your profile andthen you can monitor your skin,
like throughout the process,and then if something comes up,
then you have that telehealthopportunity directly on the move
.
So like it's about a completepicture of skin health, as we
call it.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (22:01):
So how do you reach the individual, the
time that you reach them to thetime that they end up in chair
somewhere?
You sort of take me throughthose steps, how the process
works, and also me not beingtechnologically advanced at all,
with you saying scanning andthis and that at all, with you
saying scanning and this andthat.
(22:22):
How would a person who's 60years old, who's not familiar
with all this technology, who'sconcerned about their skin
because they want to you know,they got to get ready for their
daughter or their son's weddingwant to look good?
How do you help them along theway?
Sheena Franklin (22:40):
Sure thing.
So I said there's's a coupleways that people learn about us,
right?
So we do do a lot of direct toconsumer because just the nature
of skincare, dermatology right,so people can find out about us
through, like, ads we don't doa lot of ads, but some ads right
(23:01):
, we work with a lot of women'sgroups and organizations and
then we work with a lot of, like, other types of physicians and
dietitians and wellness expertswho refer people to the mobile
app.
So you download the mobile app,right, you log in, you will do.
You have an option of doinglike a wellness questionnaire
(23:21):
that asks questions aboutsupplements, your diet, your
exercise, because this all willhelp inform the physician that
you're connected to.
So you come on for your visit.
You click on I want to do avisit, okay, perfect.
So then you do your standardmedical intake form, which is
required by law, right?
And then we ask you to takethree photos of your skin.
(23:44):
We give you instructions about.
It needs to be, you know, welllit, no makeup, no glasses.
Then we instruct you to takeone close up, a regular length
and then far away, so the doctorcan have these three different
visuals to look at.
And then you at the end, whenyou reach the end of the visit,
you click submit.
(24:04):
So this is all asynchronous,right?
We don't do synchrony, so storeand well, I don't know that, so
asynchronous, no, live visual.
You click submit, Then thatgoes to the back end, which I'll
get to, but we're just focusedon the patient, which I'll get
to, but we're just focused onthe patient.
And then, within 24 to 48 hoursthat you will get a ping in your
(24:25):
mobile app that says, hey, yourtreatment plan is ready.
Then you log back in, you clickon, we have a section that will
have all of your visits with usand it's labeled by date and
you will open it up and it willsay this is your diagnosis, this
is who you saw, this is thedate, this was your concern.
Again, this was the diagnosis.
(24:46):
These are a prescription.
If you need it, click thisbutton so you can do your, get
your prescription filled.
E-prescribing we don't do thaton the back end.
We have a service that doesthat.
And then we'll also offer, like, some lifestyle tips.
Right, like that says, like weknow this, that you know you
have rosacea, like loss ofdrinking is going to make that
(25:08):
worse, so you might want to justgeneral tips, cut down on that
use like a light moisturizer andthen come back for a follow-up
visit in six months, becauseit's not necessarily that severe
and that's all it takes it'sthat simple.
Dave Liss (25:25):
Do you have something like this, like on youtube?
Sheena Franklin (25:28):
no, we have steps on the website.
If you come to the website andit's also once you're in the app
, like it's pretty gonna bepretty self-explanatory like we
walk you through each of thesteps.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (25:41):
It's not difficult honestly, are you
using mid-level practitionersVA's nurse practitioners who
work in dermatology office?
Sheena Franklin (25:53):
So right now we're focused on dermatologists
simply because our early targetmarket are women of color.
So we are like working withfolks who are really experienced
in that area or they have aninterest in that area and
they're going to get continuededucation, and also folks who
are doing a lot with functionaldermatology, functional medicine
(26:15):
as well.
So when we were in our privatebeta, went through a lot of
research, had 2,000 women, a lotof people wanted a
dermatologist.
Like I wanted my first visit tobe with a dermatologist.
Like the follow up here that'sgreat, but I want a doctor.
So that's who we're focusing on.
We're going to try it, see whathappens.
(26:37):
Yeah, not that manydermatologists.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (26:40):
Have you guys reached out to the NMA
National Association?
Sheena Franklin (26:46):
Our advisor is a past president, so they're
working with us as well.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (26:50):
Yeah, Because I think the other thing
and again this from my ownexperience is that mid-level
practitioners, not that they'renot qualified technically, it
all depends where they are, whatkind of training they've had,
how long they've been inpractice.
Yeah, there's so muchvariability in that these days,
(27:11):
and also in most of the world,we're used to the doctor, and I
say that because I was once thephysician assistant.
And I say that because I wasonce the physician assistant.
I remember all the times Iwould walk in and say I'm Mr
Kennedy and by the time we leftthey thank you very much, dr.
So you know, they hear it allthe time and you get tired of
(27:40):
trying to explain the difference.
Yeah, into a patient, it itsuggests that you don't think
enough for me to have a doctorcome in and deal with.
Yeah, but how you know, thereare lots of reasons why
mid-level practitioners areimportant, but the reality is is
that they still don't have thetraining that physicians get.
(28:01):
That's just a fact.
Sheena Franklin (28:03):
Yeah, absolutely that's what we found
too.
So you know, it's about findingthe happy medium and, like I
said, the follow-up care they'relike they're a little bit more
open to that than the MP.
Or admission or something likethat.
Yeah, or admission or somethinglike that, yeah.
Dave Liss (28:23):
If I'm in Canada or Mexico or Venezuela and I find
my way to download an app, can Iget care?
Sheena Franklin (28:27):
Sure, that's a good question.
So technically, they say youcan't.
This is the law.
Technically, the law says youcan't, but it has to be where
you're a resident Right, and sothat's one of the things that we
do is, in the back end, how thetechnology works.
We ask you your address, we'regoing to know, like, what state
(28:49):
you live in, and then we'll beable to tell, like the geo
tracking, where you actually areright, right, so we would route
you to a physician that's inyour state, I mean, if you have
that good of the internet access.
Dave Liss (29:03):
But you know, is it also like, like, if I'm 85 years
old, I'm 90 years old.
I mean, is that within theuniverse of people that you
would serve, or is it like, well, our primary care service area,
people in this age, some agerange?
Sheena Franklin (29:23):
Yeah.
So we're talking aboutmarketing.
Like our target market is 35 to, I mean, 30 to 55.
Like that's our target marketright Now.
There's people going outside.
Be outside that range, thatuses it.
Now, when we start talkingabout, like, elderly, I probably
don't think an elderly personwould be doing it on their own.
They would probably have afamily member, a caretaker, not
(29:47):
helping them do that, right,that's typically how that would
work and the process would bethe same.
But I would probably think ifan elderly person was coming
with a skin condition, itprobably would be something
severe that needs to be seen,like in the office, right.
So, like we're asking your age,the doctor sees it or the AIC
(30:12):
it's.
When it gets to that pointwe're going to have some
checkpoints in there.
But theoretically, yes, you canuse it, anybody could use it.
Dave Liss (30:20):
So, in an interview like this, what are the three or
four most important messagesthat you would want to get out
about what you're doing, whatyou want to build, what you're
building, what you're doing whatyou want to build.
Sheena Franklin (30:34):
What you're building, yeah, the first one is
that one we want to help getwomen the care that they need in
a timely matter Right, and whenthey're doing that, we want to
ease the frustration and anxietythat women experience, and
women of color experience, whenthey go to the doctor.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is, like we'regoing to help you get the most
(30:57):
accurate diagnosis the firsttime around, right, like that
goes to decreasing thatdiagnostic rate.
And then three we're gonna stayaround to help you manage your
skin concerns or any otherhealth condition you may find
out.
Right, we're not just droppingyou off.
And those are the threeimportant things that I want
people to know.
The bonus would be by joiningour community and, you know,
(31:21):
using our app, you're helping tobetter the care of other women
in your community, just like you.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:28):
Sounds word of mouth.
Sheena Franklin (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:30):
It might become word of mouth.
I'm assuming you've launched italready.
Sheena Franklin (31:35):
So we launched part one, and what I mean by
part one is I was saying to theday before, we're still building
out the back end with the EHR,like with our vendor.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:46):
Yeah.
Sheena Franklin (31:47):
Everything else is there, so right now you can
download the app and if you needto see, see someone, you will
click on the button.
Tell us what your concern isand then we send you back a list
of all of our doctors in yourstate that are in our network,
and they will work with you toset up appointment.
In the fall, you'll be able tohave that full telehealth
(32:20):
experience.
It's just okay taking a lot.
Are you already connected?
And the reason why I say thatis because the company that
we're working with they'recalled Open Loop, and so what
they do is they found thepaperwork for us to be
practicing that we can practicein every state.
(32:42):
Now it's just about findingdermatologists in those states.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (32:47):
In those states.
Sheena Franklin (32:49):
Exactly, so we can practice throughout the US.
It's just about are we going tofind the number of doctors that
we need in those states?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (32:57):
You're saying that they're not in
Mississippi when they're inMeharry.
Sheena Franklin (33:01):
So Meharry isn't Meharry in Tennessee,
mississippi, alabama.
They're very different states,right.
And then you have a lot of thepopulation that have government
assistance, which makes it alittle bit more difficult for us
because we are a cash pay right, because sometimes
(33:23):
dermatologists they like cash,like they don't accept lots of
insurance and Medicaid andMedicare and all those things,
so they help provide.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dave Liss (33:36):
So would it be the kind of thing where, maybe five
years now, I have UnitedHealthcare and they would say
download this tab and thenthat'll help you with your
skincare guide?
Sheena Franklin (33:48):
Yeah, that's possible.
Dave Liss (33:51):
Yeah, but I think no, they do it.
Sheena Franklin (33:54):
It's just because we don't take insurance.
A lot of the payers don'tnecessarily want to work with us
because we don't take theinsurance.
The insurance company is aninsurance company, that's all.
Dave Liss (34:08):
It was interesting a couple of years ago, this
pre-pandemic, I worked with anorganization they're trying to
do telehealth and basicallychronic conditions like blood
pressure, diabetes, things likethat, and then the issue was
none of these doctors wanted towork with it because they didn't
believe in the idea oftelehealth.
And then you know, come thepandemic, it's the most viable
(34:33):
option out there.
The pandemic, then it's themost viable option out there.
And I don't know how somecataclysmic event is going to
encourage something like thisadaptation.
Sheena Franklin (34:43):
That was interesting.
I think it's also I'm not aphysician, I only talk to them
and I have them on the team, soI'm just going to give my layman
.
Perspective is, I don't thinkthey understood how it would
benefit them.
I think they were thinking thatthey weren't going to have the
same level of care, right, orthey weren't going to be able to
see the same number of patientsand somehow they weren't going
(35:05):
to get reimbursed by theinsurance companies, right?
So like that was.
I don't think fundamentallylike they knew it will work.
But it was like all the otherlittle tangibles, if it was
going to be worth me doing it,right.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (35:21):
It was the backing.
Sheena Franklin (35:22):
Yeah, it's the backing.
And then a lot of times, to bequite honest, now that I have
anything against, like my fellowfounders who are in healthcare,
it's like a lot of the toolsare so burdensome just to even
incorporate into your practice,right?
So now you want me to spendhours and hours training someone
to do something and then itdoesn't work and it's just a lot
(35:45):
, right, Like sometimes thosesystems aren't just easily
integrated into what the doctoris already doing and it just
becomes a hassle and it's clunkyon the back end.
You know, like I'm trying toenter a CPT code and then the
code won't go in, so then I haveto go exit out of your system
and then just go back to the wayI was doing it, right?
(36:07):
So you know there's a lot ofdifferent things.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (36:10):
So where do you see yourself in the next
three years?
Sheena Franklin (36:14):
Oh my gosh, in the next three years we will
definitely be able to have ourAI like functioning right, so
that will allow us to bring onmore of those mid-level doctors
or less experienced doctors,because the AI is going to be
making more accurate you knowrecommendations to them.
I want to be close to havingserved at least a million women,
(36:38):
like getting closer to thatnumber and building out that FEM
index so that we can help otheragencies, you know, medical
device companies.
That's where I see ourselves inthe next three years, and maybe
, maybe, working with a largerhealth system and spreading the
(37:00):
message of like what we're doing, like partnering with them in
some type of way.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (37:05):
That's going to be an interesting task
for you, just because peoplelike to have their own what's
the best way of saying it?
They want to always take creditfor things they didn't always
do, and you're clearly doingsomething that's different.
And it is interesting thatyou're starting with skin
(37:26):
Because, as Dave mentionedearlier, there are lots of
people who talk about diabetes,hypertension, depression,
anxiety, et cetera, and cancer,et cetera, things like that.
But you've sort of reallytargeted First of all.
I think it's ideal that you'vetargeted women, because if you
(37:48):
targeted men first, you'd stillbe at the drawing board two
years later.
Men first, you still be at thedrawing board two years later,
just because, as they say, wehave to be dying to get in the
door.
You know there's a whole lot ofissues with them and that's
across all culture.
Dave Liss (38:02):
Yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:09):
But if you add the fact that people of
color and the lack of trust inthe system and doing good by you
, so it's better.
If it's not bothering me, I'llget to it when it bothers.
Unfortunately, that's whatleads to the greater terminal
and the higher mortality rate inBlack men in this country.
It's that because we're nodifferent than all men, except
(38:30):
that since we don't trust, we'lljust push it to the side.
And if you add poverty to thatand you're trying to make ends
meet, you know where you have todecide.
Am I going to pay for thismedication or I'm going to put
food on the table or feed thefamily?
You know, then, kind of no realchoice.
(38:52):
Yeah, yeah, it is, but it noreal choice.
Dave Liss (38:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:55):
It is, but it is a reality.
Sheena Franklin (38:57):
Yeah, and that's just the complexity of
the healthcare system, right,like you need it, but sometimes
you don't trust it and then thecost can just be so detrimental
to your family, right?
Oh?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:11):
yeah, healthcare is extraordinarily
pricey and also, you know, I'vealways been a firm believer that
it should be access foreveryone, hardless, and that's
never been the case.
I mean it's never been the case.
And because everything is sotied to all of the newer
(39:32):
invention, the newer drugs, thenewer drug, all of those things
cost content, morgan, thatbecomes an issue.
You never learn.
So things that we should beaddressing that would improve
the health of all.
We don't because it costs toomuch.
Sheena Franklin (39:50):
It takes too much time, but we'll get there.
Maybe not in our lifetime.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:54):
Yeah, that's true, we're trending
there, right?
Sheena Franklin (39:59):
Is that what they say?
We're trending in thatdirection.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (40:04):
The long road, but you have to keep
trying and that's all you can do, one step at a time.
For sure, they say small step,small victories, with bigger
each time.
No, no question.
Sheena Franklin (40:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Dave Liss (40:18):
Well.
A huge thank you to our guest,Gina Franklin, co-founder of
Kept, and All In.
To learn more about Kept andtheir work on advancing women's
health and skin care, pleasevisit https:// www.
kept.
help.
Thank you for joining us forWellness Musketeer.
(40:40):
Tune in for upcoming episodesto learn how to live with a
greater understanding of theworld we experience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review, and share this
recording with your family andfriends contribute You can
contribute through the linkprovided on our program notes.
To allow this podcast to grow,let us know what you need to
learn to help you live your bestlife.
(41:01):
Send your questions and ideasfor future episodes to David
Liss at Davidmliss@gmail.
com.
Thank you.
Less than 3% is the images in medical textbooks
show skin conditions on skin ofcolor.
Unless a doctor is doing theirresidency in a city that has a
higher population of skin ofcolor, they're not going to
naturally have that expertise.
Dave Liss (00:39):
Welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast,
your guide to navigating theworld of health, wellness and
the art of living.
I'm your host, dave Liss, ajournalist and podcaster based
in Washington DC, joined by myco-host, dr Richard Kennedy, an
internist with over 36 years ofclinical expertise.
In a world inundated withwellness advice, we aim to
(01:01):
provide actionable strategies tohelp you thrive.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Sheena Franklin, a
trailblazing senior healthcarepublic policy professional and
women's health advocate.
Sheena is a founder of KEPT, agroundbreaking digital
healthcare company, and thefourth behind the health
advocacy initiative.
All in, join us as Sheena sharesinsights into CAPT's business
(01:25):
and strategic growth objectivesand shed light on the critical
health need and disparitiesfacing women and their families
across the United States.
Sheena will guide us throughCAPT's business and strategic
growth objective and help us tobetter understand the needs and
health disparities that womenand their families endure across
the United States.
(01:46):
Before we begin, pleaseremember to subscribe wherever
you listen to this podcast and,if you're there, please also
give us a review.
Five stars do amazing thingsfor the podcast and we'll keep
bringing you all the differentgurus in the health and wellness
faith to explain to you all thedifferent ways you can live
your best life.
(02:06):
And with that, here's ourconversation with Sheena
Franklin.
Sheena Franklin (02:11):
So less than 3% is the images in medical
textbooks that show skinconditions on skin of color.
Unless a doctor, dermatologist,is doing their residency in a
city that has a higherpopulation of skin of color,
they're not gonna naturally havethat expertise right.
(02:32):
And so that's what we'retalking about.
And then I'm ronald is thatwhen we first started out, you
know we thought we would be ableto use open source, you know,
data, data, research, that wecould partner with different
academic institutions, but whatwe quickly find out that there
was just a dearth of like dataon skin of color images, and so
(02:54):
it became well, how do we tacklethat?
Is it necessary?
How do we do that?
And so, in order for us toactually have the
teledermatology platform that wewanted to have, that we need to
figure out how do we build outthis data set.
So that's one of the things thatwe're doing, so that physicians
can have the recommendations.
You know, at the point of carethat, yes, or like, this is the
(03:16):
skin disease severity level.
Well, this is also the skintone.
And then, also because we focusa lot on women, we look at the
underlying health emissions.
That may be, you know, likejust like a little
recommendation, but not havingour AI replace the physician,
we're like, we're all about,like how do we make the
physician you know more precise?
(03:38):
Like kind of decrease thatburden that they have of being
overworked, and then just havingit right there, because what we
found out a lot of times whenwe were doing research with
dermatologists, they werepulling up like six different
screens, like in the office,trying to figure it out, and
then, like having them go tonotebooks where we're like, ok,
let's just make it right therebased on that patient and
(03:59):
everything comes to you so youdon't have to figure it all out.
Peace, malik, tell that to R.
Smell it, yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (04:06):
So can I ask a silly question you guys
reach out to the HowardMorehouses and Maharis of the
world, and what will theirresponse?
Because one would think almostall of them are in regions where
there's a large percentage ofpeople of color.
(04:27):
And you would think that?
Because, to me, as a physician,one of the things that has
always been the issue is there'sstudies going on all the time,
everywhere, but for people ofcolor, the access then first of
all, there has to be a way forthem to be made aware that it's
(04:48):
even there you have to getthrough.
The bias that exists is that wedon't trust the healthcare
system and that the first thingyou look at is that any research
on us is I'm being used as theguinea pig for some nefarious
thing.
I was wondering how, when youreached out to them, to the
(05:10):
Howards, the historically blackinstitutions, what was their
response?
Because one would think that ifanybody has access to a greater
cadre of people of color, theyhave.
Sheena Franklin (05:27):
Yeah, so we talked to Howard.
So one of my advisors, who's inthe company, is a professor
over at Howard, and so we gotvery far along in conversations
and, disappointingly, theydecided to work with GW so a
(05:47):
professor that actually was asponsor for me to get funding
for the National ScienceFoundation.
So he decided that he wanted tocreate a database of images
that are only going to be usedfor education purposes, that are
only going to be used foreducation purposes.
So they are working with him tobuild out this system, which
(06:12):
creates like we were trying towork together.
But because they're collectingthis for education, it can't be
used for commercial reasons,right?
So like there's all thesestipulations, right.
And so then, you know, I have,like the Eli Lillies of the
world coming to me like, hey,can you provide us with images?
And I'm like, well, not yet,but you know, maybe in the
(06:35):
future, because they have thatsame problem too, it's like we
need.
They were doing a big study oncontact dermatitis and they just
didn't have enough images.
A big study on contactdermatitis and they just didn't
have enough images, and so it'sjust a big scope.
So they decided to work withthat institution instead of
working with.
That's what happened.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (06:54):
Okay.
Sheena Franklin (06:55):
That's probably another different type of
podcast.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (06:57):
But yeah, but it's the thing is important
to know, because the it sure isfine.
It creates the difficulty ofwhat you're trying to do and
sort of try to target somethingthat really is not present out
in the community.
You always find a way to saywell, how is it that we keep
(07:20):
talking about the healthdisparity?
Keep talking about the healthdisparities?
You know, you hear about it onCapitol Hill, you hear about it
in every institution andeverybody states how much they
want to, you know, get rid of itand eliminate it.
But they don't think they havea good plan on how to reach out.
(07:44):
Because until you reach out tothe communities affected and
make them feel welcome in someway, shape or form, health
disparities is going to continue.
Sheena Franklin (07:56):
I definitely agree Two things.
One, I think it's expensive.
To be honest, it'll beexpensive.
It's hard, and the reason makesit hard is I found working with
them and some other lifesciences companies that I was
interested in working with, youcan't use this lame model.
Right like you have to changethe model and you have to create
(08:17):
the environment where it's morecomforting.
Right like I feel like theperson who's doing the research
the nurse that is there iswelcoming to me, like you're not
just coming in this one-timeshot and then I never see you
again.
Like what are you doing beforeand after?
That's creating thisenvironment of trust.
I don't think people you know inthese communities are saying no
(08:41):
, we don't see the value inparticipating.
It's what are you doing to tellme what's going to happen, even
after this study?
Like what's going to happen?
Like I think there's like allthese nuances where people are
like just oh, just come up, wecan just have a Black woman and
she'll bring everybody and thenjust go on about our business
and who cares?
That's kind of the attitude,yeah it is.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (09:05):
It's a.
I admire you.
I respect everything you'retrying to do.
It is a monumental task to me,partly because if you just
randomly talk to any person ofcolor, whether they have an
interest in health care or not,almost everybody heard about the
Tuskegee study.
Almost everybody's heard aboutthe Tuskegee study.
Mm-hmm, or what happened towhat's the name?
(09:28):
The woman?
Sheena Franklin (09:29):
Henrietta Lack.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (09:30):
Henrietta Lack, henrietta Lack.
And so we'll find a way because, again, yeah, lots of good
information did come out of allof those things.
The problem is that one, someof it was done in secrecy
decades, and then, even afterthat had happened, the distrust
(09:58):
is just there.
It's palpable.
Sheena Franklin (10:00):
Yeah, yeah, so well for us.
There's a couple of things.
One, so we don't do clinicaltrial research Like that's my R.
That's one thing, Right.
That makes it a little biteasier for us.
The second thing that makes iteasier for us is because we're
doing skin care, whichfundamentally women are always
taking pictures of their skinanyway, Right, are always taking
(10:21):
pictures of their skin anyway,right.
We're like we'll go to Ulta,we'll go to dermatologists,
we'll go somewhere like help usfigure this out, right.
So that's kind of our approachthere, which helps us out a lot.
So like, if you go to ourmobile app, it's like we're just
helping you do what you alreadydo and we're saying, by the way
(10:42):
, because you're doing this,you're helping to expand us, to
get better care for you down theroad, Right?
So like it's that type ofattitude.
So we're not saying participatein this clinical trial.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (10:55):
OK.
Sheena Franklin (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we still go out and
educate people on you know whyit's important just to share
your data, like just why youshould share it in general, and
it's happening.
So then, how are you moreproactive when your app and your
phone is taking all your healthdata and you just really don't
(11:18):
know it in general?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (11:21):
That's very helpful.
So now, how, in the perfectworld, how do you think this
would benefit particularly women?
But, like you say, women aremore conscientious and aware of
their physical attributes andare more willing to address it
let's put it that way comparedto men.
Sheena Franklin (11:41):
Yeah, so with our company, our whole goal like
our health moonshot goal, ifyou will is to decrease the rate
of misdiagnosis of skindiseases and their underlying
health conditions thatdisproportionately impact women,
right?
So like there's all thesestudies that come out and one
(12:02):
that just came out that saiddermatologists are usually the
first people to spot, like,those illnesses because it's
impacting our hair, like hairloss Right?
So like that's our goal andthat we want to be able to
decrease that and whiledecreasing it for all women, to
make sure that women of colorare on par with their white
(12:24):
counterpart.
We're not just ignoring them.
So like that's our health likemoonshot.
Right, like on that day-to-daybasis, it's just getting women
to a quicker diagnosis, right,and getting them to a doctor
quicker.
So if it's taking people threemonths, like how can we get
someone to the doctor whenthey're on our platform within
(12:46):
24 to 48 hours to get thatinitial diagnosis and then
triage that care?
Right, and knowing thateverything can't be treated
telehealth Right, we know likehey, this is a severe issue Then
how do we get someone into thedoctor within a week?
Right, so that's like the goaland then helping them maintain
that and manage those flare ups.
(13:08):
That's our goal there.
And then, thinking about ourcompany bigger is like we're
having this data, so how do wecreate what we call like a FEM
index that has that informationthere?
And then how do we de-identifyall that data and package that
(13:28):
up so like we can help advanceresearch just in women's health,
or advance research forgovernment institutions who are
trying to appropriate funds forwomen's health and research,
right Like that stuff.
So that's our goal.
But initially, the core of whatwe do is making sure that we're
getting women care that theyneed.
(13:48):
Okay, we see it as a cycle.
Yeah, we all need each other inorder to get to the next point.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (13:57):
Good, that's actually great.
Do you also, as you mentionedearlier, getting earlier
diagnoses and getting people tobe seen in a timely fashion?
Have you already started tocreate a?
Sheena Franklin (14:10):
referral network.
Right now we have 150 doctorsand estheticians and a couple
nutritionists, dietitians aswell, and we're continuing to
grow that over time.
And one thing that I love thatwe're looking into right now is
(14:32):
how do we partner with, like theskin of color clinics, like at
the Cleveland Clinic, the MayoClinic, and to bring them into
our network as well, to expandit.
So, instead of like one doctorhere, one doctor there, one
association there, I think we'redoing that but forming those
partnerships as well.
Dave Liss (14:51):
One question I was wondering about is if I'm in
Mississippi and all of your careproviders are not in
Mississippi, can I still getcare from them on your network,
or do they have to be in mystate?
Sheena Franklin (15:05):
Yeah, so that's the law, the telemedicine law
the doctor has to be licensed inthat state.
Now say, for example, I couldhave someone on my team that may
have practiced, let's say, likein Georgia, right, and Georgia
has blanking out on the wordright now.
But you can get a multi-statelicense, but it's usually by
(15:27):
region.
So like I could have someonewho's in Florida or Georgia, but
they have a license for Florida, alabama, mississippi, right,
but they have to have thatlicense there.
So that's how we do it.
But also, we'll also providepeople a listing of names.
I say, for example, we don'thave that person, we're not in
(15:47):
Mississippi quite yet.
We will provide you with a listof vetted doctors and people
that we would say, hey, go visitthis person.
Like that's a challenge withgrowing a telehealth company,
right, it's like getting allthose ducks in a row.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (16:04):
Yeah, Since the pandemic, there are regions
and much of the United Statesis set up in sort of reciprocal
acknowledgement.
So when I was in Maryland, Ihad a license in Maryland, DC
and Virginia.
When I was in New York, I had alicense that was New York, New
(16:27):
Jersey and Connecticut.
Oh, OK, so now that I'm inTexas, you know one, because I
decided I don't want to practiceanymore.
But Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado are part of the
conglomerate.
There's a website where aphysician can go and sign up one
(16:51):
time, because the real problemin the past you'd have to
individually go to eachjurisdiction and apply for the
license.
Yeah, which pricey you know$800 to $1,500 a pop.
Sheena Franklin (17:06):
Yeah, depending on what state it is.
Absolutely yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (17:09):
And so well , what they've done now is that,
because telemedicine is here tostay and the federal government
has sort of said, yeah, thiskind of makes sense, because
there's going to be times wherepeople it would be ideal in many
respects to see someone in thelocale where you are it makes
(17:30):
perfect sense Also just todevelop a relationship, because
telemedicine has its benefits.
But if I'm in California andthe patient I'm seeing is in
Virginia, we may have awonderful time each time we go
to our television.
But in that crisis emergency inthe middle of the night at 2 am
(17:53):
, when I need an answer, now Imay have an on-call service
that'll help, but the standardreply is going to be this is an
emergency, call 911 and go tothe nearest facility and it
would make sense to havesomebody who's locally there who
can look in, look out.
Sheena Franklin (18:13):
I agree Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (18:15):
What you're undertaking is a wonderful
thing and actually you're rightThinking out of the box and not
thinking of it solely from theperspective of television, but
also a combination of in-personvisits and television.
Sheena Franklin (18:34):
Exactly it has to be.
And then, once our AI gets moremature, what we plan on
implementing is, once you startthat visit, you will scan your
skin and if, immediately, weknow like this is a high
severity case, we're going toroute you automatically to an
in-person visit.
Or if we see something like nowwe have these underlying health
(18:56):
conditions, like someone we'relike, oh, you have like a
butterfly rash, we think thismight be lupus we're going to
send you right off of theplatform.
We're not just about making abuck right, like go make enough
money Right.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're also working towards
and that also helps us reach ourmoonshot of, like decreasing
this misdiagnosis rates all theway around.
Dave Liss (19:19):
this misdiagnosis rates all the way around.
Two things I was wondering isis men a universally different
consideration, or would men besomething you would evolve into
over time and you know, I thinklike somewhere we would probably
want to talk about, like yourone, three, five year vision,
for, like you know where you arenow, where you want to grow,
(19:42):
and like articulation of sort ofthe how that would evolve into
the moonshot.
Yeah.
Sheena Franklin (19:49):
So I will say we, right now we are a women's
health focused company, justbecause there's like some health
disparities there, just ingeneral.
Now, when we look towards thefuture, yes, I want to get to
the point where we are caringfor men as well.
Obviously, that's going to takelike different branding,
different marketing, but that isa goal.
And then we also want to moveinto adolescent care as well.
(20:13):
So, like those are like thelong, like 10, 10 year goals, if
you will, for the company, andmoving to those different
patient populations and thenalso five years from now.
Basically, what we want to beable to do is I tell people you
(20:33):
know, we want to take care ofwomen today and folks today on
their mobile phones, but in thefuture at their favorite, like
pharmacy and retailer, becauseagain, we're doing the skin,
scanning the skin.
What does that look like, right?
So say, for example, let's takea rural area right, there's
always a Walmart, a Subway and aDollar General, like you can
always bet on one of those threethings, right?
So what does that mean if afarmer is coming into Walmart
(20:57):
and they do like there's a catstation there and they can have
a scan and they can go throughthe, the doctor can look at
these different things and thenthey can say, okay, now I can
schedule these visits, you know,and so I can only take one trip
.
That's going to be three hoursin the city for the doctor and I
can have the doctor can havethis information.
(21:19):
That's what that looked likefor us.
Or it can be as simple assomeone's at Sephora.
Right and Sephora, you know,they're not really trained Like,
let's just be honest right, oneweek they're at Selway, the
next week they're at Oak.
So it's like they're scanningtheir skin.
They're like, oh okay, like wethink this will help you with
(21:40):
your condition.
You can set up your profile andthen you can monitor your skin,
like throughout the process,and then if something comes up,
then you have that telehealthopportunity directly on the move
.
So like it's about a completepicture of skin health, as we
call it.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (22:01):
So how do you reach the individual, the
time that you reach them to thetime that they end up in chair
somewhere?
You sort of take me throughthose steps, how the process
works, and also me not beingtechnologically advanced at all,
with you saying scanning andthis and that at all, with you
saying scanning and this andthat.
(22:22):
How would a person who's 60years old, who's not familiar
with all this technology, who'sconcerned about their skin
because they want to you know,they got to get ready for their
daughter or their son's weddingwant to look good?
How do you help them along theway?
Sheena Franklin (22:40):
Sure thing.
So I said there's's a coupleways that people learn about us,
right?
So we do do a lot of direct toconsumer because just the nature
of skincare, dermatology right,so people can find out about us
through, like, ads we don't doa lot of ads, but some ads right
(23:01):
, we work with a lot of women'sgroups and organizations and
then we work with a lot of, like, other types of physicians and
dietitians and wellness expertswho refer people to the mobile
app.
So you download the mobile app,right, you log in, you will do.
You have an option of doinglike a wellness questionnaire
(23:21):
that asks questions aboutsupplements, your diet, your
exercise, because this all willhelp inform the physician that
you're connected to.
So you come on for your visit.
You click on I want to do avisit, okay, perfect.
So then you do your standardmedical intake form, which is
required by law, right?
And then we ask you to takethree photos of your skin.
(23:44):
We give you instructions about.
It needs to be, you know, welllit, no makeup, no glasses.
Then we instruct you to takeone close up, a regular length
and then far away, so the doctorcan have these three different
visuals to look at.
And then you at the end, whenyou reach the end of the visit,
you click submit.
(24:04):
So this is all asynchronous,right?
We don't do synchrony, so storeand well, I don't know that, so
asynchronous, no, live visual.
You click submit, Then thatgoes to the back end, which I'll
get to, but we're just focusedon the patient, which I'll get
to, but we're just focused onthe patient.
And then, within 24 to 48 hoursthat you will get a ping in your
(24:25):
mobile app that says, hey, yourtreatment plan is ready.
Then you log back in, you clickon, we have a section that will
have all of your visits with usand it's labeled by date and
you will open it up and it willsay this is your diagnosis, this
is who you saw, this is thedate, this was your concern.
Again, this was the diagnosis.
(24:46):
These are a prescription.
If you need it, click thisbutton so you can do your, get
your prescription filled.
E-prescribing we don't do thaton the back end.
We have a service that doesthat.
And then we'll also offer, like, some lifestyle tips.
Right, like that says, like weknow this, that you know you
have rosacea, like loss ofdrinking is going to make that
(25:08):
worse, so you might want to justgeneral tips, cut down on that
use like a light moisturizer andthen come back for a follow-up
visit in six months, becauseit's not necessarily that severe
and that's all it takes it'sthat simple.
Dave Liss (25:25):
Do you have something like this, like on youtube?
Sheena Franklin (25:28):
no, we have steps on the website.
If you come to the website andit's also once you're in the app
, like it's pretty gonna bepretty self-explanatory like we
walk you through each of thesteps.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (25:41):
It's not difficult honestly, are you
using mid-level practitionersVA's nurse practitioners who
work in dermatology office?
Sheena Franklin (25:53):
So right now we're focused on dermatologists
simply because our early targetmarket are women of color.
So we are like working withfolks who are really experienced
in that area or they have aninterest in that area and
they're going to get continuededucation, and also folks who
are doing a lot with functionaldermatology, functional medicine
(26:15):
as well.
So when we were in our privatebeta, went through a lot of
research, had 2,000 women, a lotof people wanted a
dermatologist.
Like I wanted my first visit tobe with a dermatologist.
Like the follow up here that'sgreat, but I want a doctor.
So that's who we're focusing on.
We're going to try it, see whathappens.
(26:37):
Yeah, not that manydermatologists.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (26:40):
Have you guys reached out to the NMA
National Association?
Sheena Franklin (26:46):
Our advisor is a past president, so they're
working with us as well.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (26:50):
Yeah, Because I think the other thing
and again this from my ownexperience is that mid-level
practitioners, not that they'renot qualified technically, it
all depends where they are, whatkind of training they've had,
how long they've been inpractice.
Yeah, there's so muchvariability in that these days,
(27:11):
and also in most of the world,we're used to the doctor, and I
say that because I was once thephysician assistant.
And I say that because I wasonce the physician assistant.
I remember all the times Iwould walk in and say I'm Mr
Kennedy and by the time we leftthey thank you very much, dr.
So you know, they hear it allthe time and you get tired of
(27:40):
trying to explain the difference.
Yeah, into a patient, it itsuggests that you don't think
enough for me to have a doctorcome in and deal with.
Yeah, but how you know, thereare lots of reasons why
mid-level practitioners areimportant, but the reality is is
that they still don't have thetraining that physicians get.
(28:01):
That's just a fact.
Sheena Franklin (28:03):
Yeah, absolutely that's what we found
too.
So you know, it's about findingthe happy medium and, like I
said, the follow-up care they'relike they're a little bit more
open to that than the MP.
Or admission or something likethat.
Yeah, or admission or somethinglike that, yeah.
Dave Liss (28:23):
If I'm in Canada or Mexico or Venezuela and I find
my way to download an app, can Iget care?
Sheena Franklin (28:27):
Sure, that's a good question.
So technically, they say youcan't.
This is the law.
Technically, the law says youcan't, but it has to be where
you're a resident Right, and sothat's one of the things that we
do is, in the back end, how thetechnology works.
We ask you your address, we'regoing to know, like, what state
(28:49):
you live in, and then we'll beable to tell, like the geo
tracking, where you actually areright, right, so we would route
you to a physician that's inyour state, I mean, if you have
that good of the internet access.
Dave Liss (29:03):
But you know, is it also like, like, if I'm 85 years
old, I'm 90 years old.
I mean, is that within theuniverse of people that you
would serve, or is it like, well, our primary care service area,
people in this age, some agerange?
Sheena Franklin (29:23):
Yeah.
So we're talking aboutmarketing.
Like our target market is 35 to, I mean, 30 to 55.
Like that's our target marketright Now.
There's people going outside.
Be outside that range, thatuses it.
Now, when we start talkingabout, like, elderly, I probably
don't think an elderly personwould be doing it on their own.
They would probably have afamily member, a caretaker, not
(29:47):
helping them do that, right,that's typically how that would
work and the process would bethe same.
But I would probably think ifan elderly person was coming
with a skin condition, itprobably would be something
severe that needs to be seen,like in the office, right.
So, like we're asking your age,the doctor sees it or the AIC
(30:12):
it's.
When it gets to that pointwe're going to have some
checkpoints in there.
But theoretically, yes, you canuse it, anybody could use it.
Dave Liss (30:20):
So, in an interview like this, what are the three or
four most important messagesthat you would want to get out
about what you're doing, whatyou want to build, what you're
building, what you're doing whatyou want to build.
Sheena Franklin (30:34):
What you're building, yeah, the first one is
that one we want to help getwomen the care that they need in
a timely matter Right, and whenthey're doing that, we want to
ease the frustration and anxietythat women experience, and
women of color experience, whenthey go to the doctor.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is, like we'regoing to help you get the most
(30:57):
accurate diagnosis the firsttime around, right, like that
goes to decreasing thatdiagnostic rate.
And then three we're gonna stayaround to help you manage your
skin concerns or any otherhealth condition you may find
out.
Right, we're not just droppingyou off.
And those are the threeimportant things that I want
people to know.
The bonus would be by joiningour community and, you know,
(31:21):
using our app, you're helping tobetter the care of other women
in your community, just like you.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:28):
Sounds word of mouth.
Sheena Franklin (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:30):
It might become word of mouth.
I'm assuming you've launched italready.
Sheena Franklin (31:35):
So we launched part one, and what I mean by
part one is I was saying to theday before, we're still building
out the back end with the EHR,like with our vendor.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (31:46):
Yeah.
Sheena Franklin (31:47):
Everything else is there, so right now you can
download the app and if you needto see, see someone, you will
click on the button.
Tell us what your concern isand then we send you back a list
of all of our doctors in yourstate that are in our network,
and they will work with you toset up appointment.
In the fall, you'll be able tohave that full telehealth
(32:20):
experience.
It's just okay taking a lot.
Are you already connected?
And the reason why I say thatis because the company that
we're working with they'recalled Open Loop, and so what
they do is they found thepaperwork for us to be
practicing that we can practicein every state.
(32:42):
Now it's just about findingdermatologists in those states.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (32:47):
In those states.
Sheena Franklin (32:49):
Exactly, so we can practice throughout the US.
It's just about are we going tofind the number of doctors that
we need in those states?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (32:57):
You're saying that they're not in
Mississippi when they're inMeharry.
Sheena Franklin (33:01):
So Meharry isn't Meharry in Tennessee,
mississippi, alabama.
They're very different states,right.
And then you have a lot of thepopulation that have government
assistance, which makes it alittle bit more difficult for us
because we are a cash pay right, because sometimes
(33:23):
dermatologists they like cash,like they don't accept lots of
insurance and Medicaid andMedicare and all those things,
so they help provide.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dave Liss (33:36):
So would it be the kind of thing where, maybe five
years now, I have UnitedHealthcare and they would say
download this tab and thenthat'll help you with your
skincare guide?
Sheena Franklin (33:48):
Yeah, that's possible.
Dave Liss (33:51):
Yeah, but I think no, they do it.
Sheena Franklin (33:54):
It's just because we don't take insurance.
A lot of the payers don'tnecessarily want to work with us
because we don't take theinsurance.
The insurance company is aninsurance company, that's all.
Dave Liss (34:08):
It was interesting a couple of years ago, this
pre-pandemic, I worked with anorganization they're trying to
do telehealth and basicallychronic conditions like blood
pressure, diabetes, things likethat, and then the issue was
none of these doctors wanted towork with it because they didn't
believe in the idea oftelehealth.
And then you know, come thepandemic, it's the most viable
(34:33):
option out there.
The pandemic, then it's themost viable option out there.
And I don't know how somecataclysmic event is going to
encourage something like thisadaptation.
Sheena Franklin (34:43):
That was interesting.
I think it's also I'm not aphysician, I only talk to them
and I have them on the team, soI'm just going to give my layman
.
Perspective is, I don't thinkthey understood how it would
benefit them.
I think they were thinking thatthey weren't going to have the
same level of care, right, orthey weren't going to be able to
see the same number of patientsand somehow they weren't going
(35:05):
to get reimbursed by theinsurance companies, right?
So like that was.
I don't think fundamentallylike they knew it will work.
But it was like all the otherlittle tangibles, if it was
going to be worth me doing it,right.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (35:21):
It was the backing.
Sheena Franklin (35:22):
Yeah, it's the backing.
And then a lot of times, to bequite honest, now that I have
anything against, like my fellowfounders who are in healthcare,
it's like a lot of the toolsare so burdensome just to even
incorporate into your practice,right?
So now you want me to spendhours and hours training someone
to do something and then itdoesn't work and it's just a lot
(35:45):
, right, Like sometimes thosesystems aren't just easily
integrated into what the doctoris already doing and it just
becomes a hassle and it's clunkyon the back end.
You know, like I'm trying toenter a CPT code and then the
code won't go in, so then I haveto go exit out of your system
and then just go back to the wayI was doing it, right?
(36:07):
So you know there's a lot ofdifferent things.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (36:10):
So where do you see yourself in the next
three years?
Sheena Franklin (36:14):
Oh my gosh, in the next three years we will
definitely be able to have ourAI like functioning right, so
that will allow us to bring onmore of those mid-level doctors
or less experienced doctors,because the AI is going to be
making more accurate you knowrecommendations to them.
I want to be close to havingserved at least a million women,
(36:38):
like getting closer to thatnumber and building out that FEM
index so that we can help otheragencies, you know, medical
device companies.
That's where I see ourselves inthe next three years, and maybe
, maybe, working with a largerhealth system and spreading the
(37:00):
message of like what we're doing, like partnering with them in
some type of way.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (37:05):
That's going to be an interesting task
for you, just because peoplelike to have their own what's
the best way of saying it?
They want to always take creditfor things they didn't always
do, and you're clearly doingsomething that's different.
And it is interesting thatyou're starting with skin
(37:26):
Because, as Dave mentionedearlier, there are lots of
people who talk about diabetes,hypertension, depression,
anxiety, et cetera, and cancer,et cetera, things like that.
But you've sort of reallytargeted First of all.
I think it's ideal that you'vetargeted women, because if you
(37:48):
targeted men first, you'd stillbe at the drawing board two
years later.
Men first, you still be at thedrawing board two years later,
just because, as they say, wehave to be dying to get in the
door.
You know there's a whole lot ofissues with them and that's
across all culture.
Dave Liss (38:02):
Yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:09):
But if you add the fact that people of
color and the lack of trust inthe system and doing good by you
, so it's better.
If it's not bothering me, I'llget to it when it bothers.
Unfortunately, that's whatleads to the greater terminal
and the higher mortality rate inBlack men in this country.
It's that because we're nodifferent than all men, except
(38:30):
that since we don't trust, we'lljust push it to the side.
And if you add poverty to thatand you're trying to make ends
meet, you know where you have todecide.
Am I going to pay for thismedication or I'm going to put
food on the table or feed thefamily?
You know, then, kind of no realchoice.
(38:52):
Yeah, yeah, it is, but it noreal choice.
Dave Liss (38:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (38:55):
It is, but it is a reality.
Sheena Franklin (38:57):
Yeah, and that's just the complexity of
the healthcare system, right,like you need it, but sometimes
you don't trust it and then thecost can just be so detrimental
to your family, right?
Oh?
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:11):
yeah, healthcare is extraordinarily
pricey and also, you know, I'vealways been a firm believer that
it should be access foreveryone, hardless, and that's
never been the case.
I mean it's never been the case.
And because everything is sotied to all of the newer
(39:32):
invention, the newer drugs, thenewer drug, all of those things
cost content, morgan, thatbecomes an issue.
You never learn.
So things that we should beaddressing that would improve
the health of all.
We don't because it costs toomuch.
Sheena Franklin (39:50):
It takes too much time, but we'll get there.
Maybe not in our lifetime.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (39:54):
Yeah, that's true, we're trending
there, right?
Sheena Franklin (39:59):
Is that what they say?
We're trending in thatdirection.
Dr. Richard Kennedy (40:04):
The long road, but you have to keep
trying and that's all you can do, one step at a time.
For sure, they say small step,small victories, with bigger
each time.
No, no question.
Sheena Franklin (40:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Dave Liss (40:18):
Well.
A huge thank you to our guest,Gina Franklin, co-founder of
Kept, and All In.
To learn more about Kept andtheir work on advancing women's
health and skin care, pleasevisit https:// www.
kept.
help.
Thank you for joining us forWellness Musketeer.
(40:40):
Tune in for upcoming episodesto learn how to live with a
greater understanding of theworld we experience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review, and share this
recording with your family andfriends contribute You can
contribute through the linkprovided on our program notes.
To allow this podcast to grow,let us know what you need to
learn to help you live your bestlife.
(41:01):
Send your questions and ideasfor future episodes to David
Liss at Davidmliss@gmail.
com.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.