July 30, 2024 • 45 mins
What happens when loneliness becomes more than just a fleeting feeling? Join us as we uncover the complexities of loneliness in today's world with therapist and wellness expert Rita Abdallah. Through poignant stories from her practice, Rita illustrates the many faces of loneliness, from young adults struggling with romantic connections to middle-aged individuals battling chronic illness and social rejection. Gain valuable insights into the symptoms and consequences of loneliness, such as anxiety, depression, and even suicidal thoughts, while learning the significance of taking small, meaningful steps to foster genuine connections.
Ever wondered about the fine line between loneliness and solitude? We examine this nuanced distinction, revealing how embracing solitude can lead to inner peace and deeper relationships. Rita shares her expertise on how societal distractions can create a false sense of belonging, and how yoga and physical touch play pivotal roles in overcoming loneliness. Understand the therapeutic perspective on isolation and why even those surrounded by people can feel lonely. Through Rita's lens, discover how people from all walks of life are affected and the strategies they use to find true connection.
Explore practical strategies to manage feelings of loneliness and social isolation with the help of mental health professionals. Rita discusses affordable therapy options and local resources for those hesitant to seek counseling. Learn from success stories that highlight the power of journaling, music, and nature in transforming loneliness into purposeful solitude. Key takeaways include the importance of evaluating one's environment, incorporating valuable rituals, and staying mindful of the temporary nature of thoughts. Enhance your well-being with these actionable insights and join us in thanking Rita Abdallah for her impactful contributions.
To learn more about strategies for thriving with feelings of loneliness and Rita and her work please visit:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rita Abdallah (00:04):
As a therapist, I work with adults and often I
witness clients struggling withand trying to navigate the
feelings of isolation, socialdisconnection, and loneliness.
I'm not talking about momentsof loneliness that naturally
arise in life events such asdeath, divorce, and job changes.
(00:26):
This type of loneliness thatwe're talking about today
gradually evolves into a mindsetand a wound in the heart.
Loneliness somehow becomes anidentity.
David Liss (00:42):
Welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast,
your guide to navigating theworld of health, wellness, and
the art of living.
I'm your host, Dave Liss, ajournalist, and podcaster based
in Washington DC.
In a world inundated withwellness advice, we aim to
provide actionable strategies tohelp you thrive.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Rita Abdallah, a
(01:04):
therapist, award-winningperformance speaker, wellness
coach, yoga and meditationteacher, author and founder of
Turning Point Yoga and Wellness.
(01:26):
Affecting people of all ages,from young adults navigating
social media to seniorsexperiencing isolation, the
impact of loneliness on mentaland physical health is profound.
This pervasive issue transcendsdemographics, challenging our
fundamental need for meaningfulconnections.
As technology advances,traditional support systems are
forced to evolve.
As technology advances,traditional support systems are
forced to evolve, leaving manyneeding help finding their place
(01:49):
.
Today, with Rita, we'll explorethis complex aspect of modern
times and provide practicalstrategies to help you thrive
amidst these challenges.
Dr Vivek Murthy, us SurgeonGeneral, states that the health
risks of loneliness are as badas smoking up to 15 cigarettes a
day and even greater than thoseassociated with obesity and
(02:13):
physical inactivity.
Please remember to subscribewherever you listen to this
podcast and, if you're there,please also give us a review.
Five stars do amazing thingsfor the podcast, and with that,
here's our conversation withRita Abdalla.
Rita, tell our listeners aboutyourself, your practice and your
(02:33):
work helping people to copewith and thrive with their
experiences involving loneliness.
Rita Abdallah (02:42):
Hi Greg and hi everyone.
Thank you for having me here.
As a therapist, I work withadults and often I witness
clients struggling with andtrying to navigate the feelings
of isolation, socialdisconnection, and loneliness.
I'm not talking about momentsof loneliness that naturally
(03:02):
arise in life events such asdeath, divorce, and job changes.
This type of loneliness thatnaturally arise in life events
such as death, divorce and jobchanges, this type of loneliness
that we're talking about today,gradually evolves into a
mindset and a wound in the heart.
Loneliness somehow becomes anidentity.
I'll start with a story hereright away.
And I have a couple of clientsin my therapy practice and
(03:24):
they're young and wantrelationships, romantic
connections.
You have the idea of going outasking somebody.
Spending one-on-one time withsomebody in that capacity is so
far away and far removed fromwhat they could even imagine for
themselves.
(03:50):
And that fear not onlydebilitates them, but it also
paralyzes them to the point ofwhere they shut down, get
overwhelmed and it takes a whilefor them to recover, even after
we have a very briefconversation about it.
We'll have to circle back andtalk about other things so that
we future move into space just alittle bit at a time.
For example, one person thatI'm working with we'll call him
(04:11):
Peter and often says go toStarbucks and just sit for an
hour and just look at people andtry to think in different
surroundings I probably call herand her job and he was able to
go and sit for the hour butspent the entire time looking
after her.
So, our reinforcement was verylittle in a live setting.
David Liss (04:33):
I think that's becoming our natural default.
Rita Abdallah (04:37):
I think so too, and for people who crave
companionship, they have to stepoutside of what's in their
hands.
They are trying to find a pathforward and it has to happen
with one small conversation withsomebody they feel safe with at
a time, or hopefully Peter canfind his way into what is
(04:59):
comfortable for him andhopefully, natural at some point
he gets so foreign forward tohandle my study that it's
overshadowed my ability to moveforward in that direction.
In the loneliness phase, ifwe're going to talk therapy,
some clinical symptoms show upand that we already highlighted
with fever, anxiety, but there'salso depression and guilt and
(05:20):
even suicide happens.
In the loneliness phase, peopletend to shut down and feel that
the world is harsh andjudgmental and they're never
going to be able to survive in asocial setting such as their
local communities or travel ordo things that again may require
(05:43):
human interaction.
Is it bordering on agoraphobia?
Or do things that again may?
David Liss (05:45):
require human interaction.
Is it bordering on agoraphobiaor something like that, where
people have a loneliness ofmaking people fearful of
interaction?
Rita Abdallah (05:57):
They crave it, and yet they push it away at the
same time.
And the boys push it away, it'slouder and louder, and so
they'd rather it's safer forthem.
So, they think that you'rebeing a familiar face all the
time, instead of thinking thatcourageous.
We both have fear when weinteract with the world,
(06:18):
whatever that might look like.
David Liss (06:19):
So, it's a catch-22.
You don't want to be, butyou're fearful, when you're with
other people, from not beingalone.
Rita Abdallah (06:28):
Yes, and when you are with other people, you're
so uncomfortable that it makesother people uncomfortable.
They don't know what theiragenda is.
They're stressed because of thediscomfort that person is
expressing, whether it's inverbal or nonverbal ways.
Another story Sure.
I work with a middle-aged womanwith a chronic illness.
(06:49):
No one can meet new people invarious social settings.
In fact, she will describe whathappens in those social
settings.
A race you know rejects itbecause of her being seen by
others as compromised.
Whether people vocalize it ornot, when somebody's disabled
(07:12):
and may need extra helpaccording to their person, they
tend not to want a whole lot ofsocial taking or the next step
to meeting one-on-one with her.
And that space of rejectioncreated loneliness in her.
It's like her attempt to outof there.
David Liss (07:33):
I guess it's the kind of thing where you want
something to reinforce theeffort and I guess just because
you're making an effort doesn'tmean you'll get some kind of
positive feedback for trying.
Yes, effort doesn't mean you'llget some kind of positive
feedback for trying.
Can you tell us about yourbackground and your work as a
therapist and as a yoga teacher?
Rita Abdallah (07:55):
Yeah, I've been a social worker for over 30 years
and work with people ofdifferent backgrounds who are
dealing with a variety of lifetroubles chronic illness,
relationships, job chambers andmuch more, and as a yoga and
meditation teacher, I loveteaching how the body and the
(08:17):
breath allow us to reset thenervous system.
Our studio in Cleveland, Ohio,Spring Point, yoga, and Wellness
represents a sacred spacededicated to helping people find
the answer, recover from trauma, recover aid in high-level yoga
and meditation classes and tofeel good and create wellness in
(08:40):
the later life.
And it has been so incredibleto witness how students
transform trauma, loneliness,pain and worn out emotional
story into growth and intomistake-free feeding.
David Liss (08:55):
Can you discuss how loneliness and social isolation
impact people today and give usexamples about considerations
related to the effect of socialmedia and the internet on
loneliness?
Rita Abdallah (09:10):
Yes, prey finds into every human being during
their lifetime.
Sometimes loneliness issituational, occurring in a
situation of death, divorce, job, children.
We can remeasure in court death, divorce, job, children,
breakups, romantic breakups,some kinds of perfuming that
(09:32):
helping is missing or empty inone way.
And in many industrializedcountries the numbers of people
who live alone, who remainunmarried and or get divorced
seems to have increased.
But at the same time,involvement in communities such
as clubs or a political partyhave also, you will hear,
decreased, some decrease, andone can argue that we, on
(09:56):
average, spend more time aloneand are less invested in
traditional family bonds than atthe beginning of the 20th
century.
So, beyond that, let's talkabout and we'll get to words in
sort of space.
So, we've talked aboutloneliness and let's now bring
in social isolation.
(10:17):
There is a distinction betweenthe two.
The American PsychologicalAssociation describes social
isolation as a state in which anindividual lacks a sense of
social belonging throughengagement with others and
fulfilling relationships, forexample.
Social isolation is what occursduring a period of risk.
(10:39):
When you take your mind backinto COVID-19 and where you're
at and what did you read on interms of coping and support,
it's very likely that you spenta lot of time on your devices.
You may have participated hereand there and provided some kind
words to people, but for themost part you were in that space
(11:00):
of technology more thaninteracting in life sanity.
Post-horizontal isolation iswhat occurred during the
pandemic Graphic separation,limited interactions with loved
ones, fear of social gatherings.
We were forced to live inconfinement within a very narrow
radius geographically, socially, emotionally, and mentally.
(11:24):
It brought me to a teachingfrom one of my favorite fearful
people, Donald Donahue, and hefared with his insight on social
isolation.
When we become isolated, we areprone to being damaged.
Our minds lose theirflexibility and nap for a while.
(11:45):
We become vulnerable to fearand negativity.
David Liss (11:50):
So that's social isolation, and how is social
isolation linked to loneliness?
Rita Abdallah (12:02):
Great question.
Let's turn to statistics thathelp us make that distinction.
According to the AmericanPsychological Research,
loneliness is defined by fecallevels of their sexual identity
or their perceived social travel.
Nearly 70% of US adults have atleast one social media account
(12:24):
and the average Americaninternet user has seven.
It appears that Americans aremore socially connected than
ever, yet one in five recordsOften are always feeling low
rate.
Where does this lead us to thisquestion?
The social media calls aresinful and social isolation.
(12:44):
The answer is not simply yes orno.
In 2018, the Kaiser FamilyFoundation explored loneliness
of socialized for laser.
What did they discoverTwenty-two percent of US adults
were thought to be reportedoften or always fearing memory,
a lack of contact, a lack ofself-care or isolated from
(13:07):
others.
The majority of individualsreporting loneliness were under
the age of fifty, single ordivorced.
Respondents reported that theyhave fewer confidants and or
fewer or no nearby friends overthe years.
David Liss (13:26):
What is the difference between loneliness
and solitude?
Rita Abdallah (13:31):
Yes.
So social isolation is againpretty core devices and keeping
us purposefully, we keepourselves hidden if we welcome
the world and limit ourinteraction with others.
Loneliness is a much morecomplex state of being that is
more than just isolating that.
(13:52):
It draws us into more peacefulexistential places of how we
belong, where we belong here.
And so now we're going to add,yes, social isolation and
loneliness, a word calledloneliness.
Again, I return to a key thingfrom Don O'Donoghue in his book
(14:16):
called Infernal Echoes.
If there is one of us in theworld, and it takes great
courage to meet the full forceof your own, most of the
activity of society issubconsciously designed to quell
the voice crying in thewilderness with you.
And until you learn to inhabityour aloneness, the lonely
(14:42):
destruction of noise or societywill seduce you into your false
belonging, with which you willonly become empty and weary.
When you face your aloneness,gradually, over.
sense of gladness flows over Itis a slow and open-ended
(15:09):
transition, but it is utterlyvital to conform to a rythym of
your individuality.
This is the endless path offinding your true home within
your lens.
It is not our circumstance, foras soon as you rest in the
house of your own heart, doorand window begin to open outward
(15:33):
to the world.
No longer on the run from yourloneliness, your connection with
others becomes real and free.
You no longer need to covertlyscrape affirmation from others
or progress outside your comfortzone and often that's the brief
(15:53):
of third place where there'scomfort and safety in mindful
company, the pleasure ofinteracting in the world on our
own and the joy of loving theself with the resistance when we
experience any form ofsuffering by being alone or
heading into loneliness.
Suffering can take on the formsof thought healing, physical
(16:17):
healing or spiritual hope.
Solitude is more inspiring,uplifting and connected to the
heart.
David Liss (16:24):
So does this mean that you're trying to, that
you're trying to, on anindividual level, take the
negativity away from theexperience of being by yourself
and try and find value in theopportunity of being alone.
Rita Abdallah (16:43):
Yes, solitude of cooperating, that enjoyment
during something whether you'reat home cooking or taking a walk
or watching a sunset that fromenjoyment or doing something
whether you're at home cookingor taking a walk or watching a
sunset that you're still justgrowing and that you're not
afraid of the quiet space thathappens when you are on your own
(17:04):
, that there are treasures andthat they're not there because
you're exhausted from doingthose all day and distracting
yourself all you want.
That they're not there becauseyou're exhausted from doing
those all day and distractingyourself all you want.
But they're looking forward tothat quiet time, that solitude,
or not only the quiet time, tomaybe do nothing but maybe do
something with some presence,meaning or just not one more
(17:27):
thing to do or more thing toescape or avoid and fantasize
about.
David Liss (17:31):
What has your experience been as a therapist
and as a yoga teacher?
Rita Abdallah (17:35):
So we highlighted the stories of Peter and we'll
call me over for some marriageand so when we highlighted those
in the therapy study, you cansee the individual and the
struggles that they encounter,with Peter going through coffee
stop and his inability tointeract with others and fan of
the right, whereas Mary is madefor seeking that to engage
(17:59):
others and yet there's no realsubstance for them, which asks
for more interaction and moreconnection.
So, let's talk about lonelinessnow from a yoga teacher's
perspective.
Yes, yoga teaches us thatsomething exists in each one of
us that is limitless and realand connected to all things.
(18:20):
That are all three.
So much so that if you feltsomething under the surface, you
would never feel alone.
This is why yoga is a sensorysolitary.
Sure, we can go to a busystudio and feel joy as part of a
community, but at the end ofthe day, you have to keep
(18:40):
showing up on your mask must Youstand on the mask and face
whatever arises during thepressure must We keep
encouraging ourselves to dropour heart so that we can gently
conquer our own return and bonusof suffering.
David Liss (18:59):
Is there an element related to a lack of physical
touch?
I mean it could be anythingfrom a shaking hands to a hug.
Is that part of it also?
I mean you don't have anyphysical touch or human
interaction of some kind.
Rita Abdallah (19:16):
Yes, absolutely.
And some of us are reallycomfortable in craving breath
and some of us don't even knowthat we crave that and then some
of us don't crave it at all.
And there's such power inconnection and physical and
community and getting to knowpeople and getting exchange in
(19:42):
that way.
So, it's difficult for theperson and the situation.
Great honor, it's a greatquestion, David.
David Liss (19:50):
Well, thank you.
What kind of trends are younoticing in terms group any of
people that are experiencingproblematic loneliness?
Older people, younger people,men, women, children.
Rita Abdallah (20:07):
Yes, that's an excellent question.
I think everyone and anyone isgoing to be touched by
loneliness at some point.
Are there griefs that areaffected more than others?
There was a poll that theyconducted and 30% of the
(20:29):
respondents 18 to 34, said theyfeel lonely every day, for
several days a week.
And the poll among 4,200 adultsalso found that single adults
are 20% as likely as marriedadults to children only, which
makes sense, right Thirty-ninepercent versus twenty-two
(20:51):
percent.
And about 50% of these 2,200ease their loneliness with
distraction like TV, podcasts,and social media.
And another 41% of that groupsaid they go for walks or reach
out to family or friends.
(21:14):
And some of us turn tosubstance-like drugs and alcohol
to ease loneliness, andaccording to this survey,
fortunately, that's about 13%.
I would think it's a littlehigher than that based on what
I've seen on therapy, withadults 18 to 34, more likely to
(21:34):
use substance use, than girls 45to 64 years of age.
Now that brings up Again within2,200 adults.
The highest sense of communityand belonging comes from family,
friends and neighbors, and theleast helpful places to feel
less lonely were onlinecommunities and discussion
(21:54):
forums.
Sports and Rec team and gym andfitness practice really would
say oh, you're feeling lonely,you should join a gym.
If you're lonely, you should gowatch a sport at a bar or go
watch a game, and yet things are.
That's not what showed up, whichI think is surprising in this
particular era.
David Liss (22:13):
Yeah, I guess it's like with some of these things,
you can be with other people butstill, like you were saying
earlier, still be by yourself ina sense.
Do these statistics bear out interms of what you've seen in
your own practice and your ownexperience with people in the
different places?
You have audiences and interact.
Rita Abdallah (22:33):
Yes, even a personal example I walk outside
every day and most of the peoplethat I see on the path, if you
are on their own.
There are couples spendingtogether with friends and
getting together with family,but for the most part, people
are on their own and enjoyingtheir moment of self-care.
That's solid.
(22:54):
I don't think it's a bad thingor a good thing.
I've been to social settingswhere people come on their own
it's more of a norm, and sothere are a lot of people
impressive.
There are people who again tryto go to social study and try to
(23:15):
make connections with people,and it's a big thing whether
they're experiencing a positiveor something else.
David Liss (23:24):
What kind of tools are there for people to address
these feelings and buildrelationships or feelings of
connection?
Rita Abdallah (23:35):
Yes, another great question.
What you don't have to talkabout is the difference between
solitude and mal-later.
Solitude is an inspired faithfor us, for the end right, it's
that idea of belonging toourselves and to the world, of
belonging to ourselves and tothe world, whereas loneliness is
a space of longing.
(23:55):
And we glance in between thesolitude and loneliness and
belonging and longing throughoutour lives and some of us can
vanish it in healthy ways andsome of us make other choices
that alleviate suffering ornegativity and faith and federal
and temporary experience ofbelonging.
(24:15):
So first, in my opinion, weneed to become aware of when we
cross those lines betweenstepping out of solitude and
belonging and stepping intobelonging after belonging.
By asking ourselves a fewquestions, we can determine if
it's time to collectively workthrough loneliness and notice
(24:36):
how often we experience feeling,to give us a clear
understanding of how lonely weare day to day.
Let me give you some of thesequestions for reflection.
Do I feel like I'm missingsocial contact with others?
Do I feel I'm spending time bymyself in a negative way, in a
(24:58):
way that I'm suffering, orsomething else?
Do I have positive andsupportive relationships with my
wife?
This one's big for a lot of us.
We have a very small circle andwhen those people are not
available, that can triggerfeelings of loneliness and
isolation.
How does contact with yourfriends and family make you feel
(25:21):
Positive, happy, hard?
Do I feel like I've lost myconfidence and social skills?
Do I feel I have a negativeview of myself and others?
Do I prefer the company of mydevice versus being out in the
world?
So the CDC Affidavit of Controlsays that people can combat
(25:45):
loneliness by spending some timewith people that they know.
So, starting from a safe placewhere there's small interactions
right, you don't have to spendfour hours with people that you
know and care about.
Maybe it's a CME, maybe it's aphone call.
Having a little bit of planningahead might help with the
anxiety and overwhelm of beingout of fear in the world.
(26:08):
Looking at clubs Meetup.
org is a wonderful place if youhave a specific hobby and want
to feed others locally are alsoengaged in that particular
activity.
For you to get out again,you're choosing something safe,
something that you know and area part of the people that you're
(26:28):
interacting with in thoseparticular experiences Going out
with an influencer, as I said,walking outside, catching a
sunrise, sunset anything thatallows your eyes to travel and
feel fresh air is good for thesoul.
Expressing gratitude to others,feeling thankful for the
interactions, whatever they maybe, small or big, being grateful
(26:54):
.
Find a passengera passion.
If you like animals, if youlike babies, life working with
older adults.
There's something there that'svaluable and that will be that
safe space for you to interactfrom a place that's something
that you care about.
Or maybe there's a neighbor orsomebody local that you can say
hello to.
David Liss (27:12):
Is there a perfect space?
In the sense that is, it should.
The expectation that we allhave is that at some point in
our lives we'll have someelements of solitude through our
day or in the course of ourweek day or month, and then
other times when there'll beloneliness must we address in
(27:35):
some way.
Is there an ideal state?
Rita Abdallah (27:40):
I don't know if there is.
I think, because we are human,we never know Today could be a
great day.
I think, because we are human,we never know Today could be a
great day and then all of asudden, something suddenly
happens and the switch flips andthe next day you wake up
differently.
We all have that encounterwhere we're balancing the three
(28:00):
things we're being, and so oneday you're perfectly fine with
being on your own and enjoyingyour own company, and another
time you may see something on TVor something when you go
grocery shopping.
But you see something and allof a sudden you just walk into
loneliness.
You entered into that state andthat space is so such a
(28:21):
wonderful opportunity for growth.
So, the faster we can becomeaware that we are in that state
of loneliness and there's adiscomfort or being awkward,
feeling awkward, that the momentwe have that theory or that
thought, that we go into it,that we're not avoiding,
escaping, and running from it,that we're in the moment with
(28:44):
loneliness, the single-stagerfear.
I want to get to know you alittle bit better.
Why are you here?
What are you here to teach me?
And spending that quality timeto move through it?
Because if we shove itsomewhere.
It starts to accumulate andconsume us, and then can become
(29:04):
overwhelming colon.
And that's become felt-free andlulling our fits.
It may require otherintervention and maybe you turn
to something sort of a device ormore, and so we want to get a
full bit of loneliness.
We need to turn these feelingsof loneliness around and allow
it to turn back, or to transformitself back into quality and
(29:28):
learning.
David Liss (29:30):
Did I ask that question.
Yeah, I think so.
I think for a lot of people too, one of the most uncomfortable
places to be is alone with yourthoughts, and that something
that gets you out of the spaceof being in your thoughts can
take away from those feelings,not necessarily solve the
(29:50):
problems.
I guess it's a crutch as muchas anything else, or it can be,
seems to me, but I know I'm asaddicted to my phone as most
other people I meet.
I don't know how you feel abouthow our technology is
overwhelming our lives andentering into considerations for
(30:10):
solitude and loneliness.
Rita Abdallah (30:13):
Yes, what's trending now are digital drinks.
And how do we remove away fromtechnology and into the
experience of being present?
Because we're here to collectand create moments and exchange
meaningful connections andpractice this love and joy in
the world.
That's our purpose, that's whatwe're here to do, and when we
(30:39):
move away from our devices,we're giving ourselves our first
the opportunity to check in, tolook at the world through our
own eyes, have our ownexperience of the world, and for
me, when I go out with friends,I'll leave the phone with the
ear.
(30:59):
She tells me there's nothingelse I want to do but be with
them.
I can always get to my phone.
It'll be there.
The first time or two timesthat I did that, that was a
little untethered, but I left itat home and now it's a regular
practice and I absolutely loveit.
The world is not going to changein such a dramatic fashion that
(31:23):
two hours away from the phoneis going to make or break my
life, and I'm of a generationwhere cell phones didn't happen
until months later in my life.
So, it's now a comfort level.
I take comfort in my room wherethat device is put away.
I've also, not only in my ownlife but as an entire client,
(31:43):
considered to not have anydigital, any devices in their
bedroom, that their bedroom wasmeant for free and inspiration,
and so you create deliberatespaces in the house where
devices are not present, whetherit's a bedroom, in a kitchen,
somewhere else, living room thatmaybe there are quotes, there's
art, there's pictures of peoplethat you care about or travels
(32:07):
that you've been on.
That just brings you into amoment of solitude and not
where's my phone, like a thingYou're there to cultivate that
solitude?
David Liss (32:18):
Are you explaining what a digital break is?
Rita Abdallah (32:23):
Yes, that is a digital break is or a funeral?
Yeah, that is a digital break.
There are people who also Ihave a friend who friends and
time-logged heaven and there wasno internet access, and there
are places now that will ask youto hand over your phones or
that you'll not be able tointeract with the world, just so
that you can have your owninternet, one of the things that
(32:44):
you can kind of go in adifferent way.
David Liss (32:45):
One of the things that I thought was interesting
just in conversation we've had apart from the recording is that
we can find ways to just spendour days without clicking our
way through the day.
Could you speak to that alittle bit?
Rita Abdallah (33:06):
Yes, there are also some other words we can put
into our space today.
There is a difference betweenhabit and routine and ritual,
and habits and routines are thegrind, the things that you do
every day, and they're mindless.
They're your daily routines,brushing your teeth, taking a
(33:29):
shower, putting your clothes on,and then there are rituals.
I get up, I place both feet onthe ground so grateful to be
alive and grounded in my life isnow a ritual.
Brushing my teeth, my ability touse my hand, is now a ritual,
and so taking none of thosethings and so much more for
(33:51):
granted, that our freedom, ourindependence, our ability to
drive, put clothes on you, lookin the mirror and smile all
these things are coming from aplace of ritual Blessing the day
between a start and blessingthe day at the end, when
everything that happened andeveryone you interact with will
be free.
All those moments collectedinto one 24-hour period, and you
(34:14):
can ask yourself did that todaymake me smile or did it make me
grow?
And every day you can come backto our question and find a new
answer.
You have to do it.
Ask yourself, are you in thespace of habit and routine just
getting through the day, or areyou in the spirit of being
(34:35):
present with your growth andexcited to do all the things
that allow you to have awonderful day?
Can you speak?
David Liss (34:44):
to how someone like yourself or mental health
professionals can help peoplenavigate this and understand
themselves better.
And are there resources thatyou're aware of for people who
may not have insurance or areshy about maybe seeing a
counselor Sure, I'll speak tothe resources in that bit a
little bit or shy about seeinga counselor?
Rita Abdallah (35:04):
Sure, I'll speak to the resources and then dig a
little bit.
There are resources incommunities that allow for
discounted or sliding scaletherapy options.
If you find a therapist thatyou like when you research
online, sometimes they offer adiscounted rate.
And then there are localnonprofits besides their offer
(35:25):
affordable health care.
So, there are several ways toget into that.
I think.
As far as comfort level, peoplecan have one of two options.
They can meet with a therapistin a virtual setting and so they
can be in the comfort of theirown seat having that
conversation with somebody ontheir device.
The other is to meet with atherapist in a live setting with
(35:50):
a therapy offer.
There are options there as well, experiencing social isolation
and loneliness and want to takeadvantage of the opportunity to
meet with somebody in a safe,confidential space and get them
(36:15):
tools and insights and practicesso that they can cultivate more
solitude than loneliness in ourlives.
The compassion, the approach tocare can go right from very
clinical, specific ways toforward interventions, depending
(36:36):
on what the client is seeking.
Go ahead Sam.
David Liss (36:41):
Is there a place for journaling?
If someone's going to dosomething like that, are there
two or three things they shouldlook to incorporate into that
kind of practice on a dailybasis?
Rita Abdallah (36:54):
Yes, I'm trained as a social worker and in our
perspective, we often say wemeet the patient or client where
they're at, and one clientmight want to be fed off,
another might want to listen tomusic, use for exercise, what
else.
But again, moving out of habitand routine into ritual, I could
(37:15):
give homework in a number ofdifferent ways.
I may encourage them to reachout and talk to somebody and
have a conversation or gooutside of nature, so it just
depends.
I would say within the lastseveral months I've recommended
books to clients, and I wouldsay value is 50-50.
I don't like reading books.
(37:37):
Can you send me a video?
And there are some things fromthat author that I could use
online.
So, it just depends.
It's very dependent on theperson and their attention span
and their motivation.
I can recommend something as aname of nothing or director.
David Liss (37:58):
Are there any success stories you would like
to share from your practice as atherapist?
Rita Abdallah (38:07):
With self-isolation and loneliness.
David Liss (38:09):
Yes.
Rita Abdallah (38:10):
Or how they conquer that.
David Liss (38:12):
Or how they.
Sometimes, I think we look ateverything as a victory, but
sometimes it's not like there'sa win-loss, but that we found a
way to keep the demons at bay,or something like that.
Rita Abdallah (38:24):
One of my core philosophies is that life is a
practice.
You don't rarely, you don't getdown, you get up, you get down,
you get up, you get down, youget up.
So, there's no failures, nopasses.
And when life is a practice,and a person presents themselves
in a therapy setting and yogasettings that what are we
practicing?
And so, then we move into thatpractice.
(38:49):
Are we going to practicesitting into the loneliness?
Are we going to practice movingloneliness of and into
solitude?
What is it that we'repracticing that allows you to
feel good and to grow, and Ithink a success story is me
being a humble witness to helppeople find their life.
David Liss (39:10):
That's very nice If you could give people a takeaway
.
Are there four or five thingsthat you think are most
important for people to considerin their own lives as they're
trying to establish an abilityfor solitude and confront any
feelings of loneliness that theyhave in their lives?
Rita Abdallah (39:30):
Yes.
So, I would say, look at yourphysical state.
Let's start there.
What does it look like?
Do you have either the colorsbright or happy in your space?
Do you have pictures, art, toysin your house that allow you to
feel connected to others and toyour heart?
(39:51):
And because what you look atevery day impacts on your
influence, how does the facearound you influence your world
and where does your space takeyou?
If you will, I would also takethat to the next step, because
we spend so much time on ourdevices, what do your screen
savers look like?
Doing all for native spirit ofjoy, peace, love, gratitude and
(40:15):
change from love.
Right, I flip through sunsetsall the time.
So anytime I get to watch thesunset, those end up being my
screen saver for the week.
So that's physical, so that'svery simple.
So my physical state.
Emotionally speaking, moving outof the again, the routine habit
of moving into ritual is stillemotionally valuable.
(40:37):
That you're looking forward,you're excited, curious,
grateful to brush your teeth,that you're putting your feet on
the ground for the first time,that you get to close your eyes,
that you feel safe.
You keep it very simple on theemotional side.
And then, when events occur inyour life that seem so
(40:57):
overwhelming in nature?
How can you get into thenervous system?
Take some breath and moveyourself back into the neutral.
Remind yourself.
What is the next strategy?
Remind yourself what are youpracticing in the vulnerable?
Are you practicing somethinggood or something that's just
safe?
(41:18):
Are you practicing somethinginspiring or practicing
something that is painful?
You choose and create thepractice.
Nobody else does thinginspiring or practicing
something that you're painful?
You choose and create thepractice.
Nobody else does.
And yes, other things willhappen, and influence may
potentially influence you.
But how do you navigate theinfluence and to what degree is
(41:39):
entirely up to you.
And then from then, lastly, Iwould say, the mental force.
Your thoughts are temporary,and remind yourself constantly
that thoughts can come and go.
Recently, there has been anevent in my life where I'm
asking the same question overand over again and at some
(42:02):
point, I stopped and moved intoa space of awareness.
I realized I was cracklingthought.
I stopped and became aware thatthis was not a part of what was
serving me, causing suffering,and then, in that moment of
awareness, I decided to replacethat thought with one of my own
servings.
I'm enough, I'm enough, I'menough, I'm enough.
(42:25):
I'm enough, I'm enough Over andover again, and whenever the
other thought comes back, it'slike me doing ten push-ups,
right?
So, I have to say that thingten times to get myself out of
that space I don't want to be in.
I hope these tips are helpful.
David Liss (42:39):
No, I think that's great.
As we close our conversation,are there parting thoughts or
something you'd like to sharewith our listeners?
Rita Abdallah (42:51):
I would say incorporate some of these
vocabulary words that I'm aboutto share into your life.
I think having new wordscreates new energy for us and
awareness, and so the words thatI want to highlight from our
conversation loneliness andlonging, solitude and belonging,
(43:13):
social isolation, connectionand practicing life.
So those are great vocabularywords for us to integrate,
incorporate as we move along inour day-to-day and then help
shape and frame the moment inour lives in ways that allow us
to grow and cope in healthy ways.
David Liss (43:38):
Are there words that guide you, that you could share
with our listeners?
Rita Abdallah (43:43):
Yeah, I think we're going to sum up our
conversation today, david.
It's through this beautifulprayer written by John O'Donohue
.
It is called A Glyphic Orthodox.
May you recognize in your lifethe presence, power, and lines
(44:03):
of your soul.
May you realize that you arenot alone, that your soul, in
its brightness and belonging,connects you intimately with the
rhythm of your heart.
May you have respect for yourown individuality and difference
.
May you realize that the shapeof your soul is unique, that you
(44:29):
have a special destiny here,that behind the facade of your
life there is somethingbeautiful, good, and eternal for
you.
May you learn to see yourselfwith the same villain, pride and
expectation with which God seesyou in every moment.
David Liss (44:56):
A huge thanks to our guest, Rita Abdallah.
To learn more about Rita andher work as a therapist and
speaker, please visit www.
R itaAbdallah.
com.
Thank you for joining us forWellness Musketeers.
(45:17):
Tune in for upcoming episodes.
To learn how to live with agreater understanding of the
world we experience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review, and share this
recording with your family andfriends.
Let us know what you need tolearn to help you live your best
life.
Send your questions and ideasabout future episodes to Dave
(45:37):
Liss at Davidmliss@gmail.
com .
As a therapist, I work with adults and often I
witness clients struggling withand trying to navigate the
feelings of isolation, socialdisconnection, and loneliness.
I'm not talking about momentsof loneliness that naturally
arise in life events such asdeath, divorce, and job changes.
(00:26):
This type of loneliness thatwe're talking about today
gradually evolves into a mindsetand a wound in the heart.
Loneliness somehow becomes anidentity.
David Liss (00:42):
Welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast,
your guide to navigating theworld of health, wellness, and
the art of living.
I'm your host, Dave Liss, ajournalist, and podcaster based
in Washington DC.
In a world inundated withwellness advice, we aim to
provide actionable strategies tohelp you thrive.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Rita Abdallah, a
(01:04):
therapist, award-winningperformance speaker, wellness
coach, yoga and meditationteacher, author and founder of
Turning Point Yoga and Wellness.
(01:26):
Affecting people of all ages,from young adults navigating
social media to seniorsexperiencing isolation, the
impact of loneliness on mentaland physical health is profound.
This pervasive issue transcendsdemographics, challenging our
fundamental need for meaningfulconnections.
As technology advances,traditional support systems are
forced to evolve.
As technology advances,traditional support systems are
forced to evolve, leaving manyneeding help finding their place
(01:49):
.
Today, with Rita, we'll explorethis complex aspect of modern
times and provide practicalstrategies to help you thrive
amidst these challenges.
Dr Vivek Murthy, us SurgeonGeneral, states that the health
risks of loneliness are as badas smoking up to 15 cigarettes a
day and even greater than thoseassociated with obesity and
(02:13):
physical inactivity.
Please remember to subscribewherever you listen to this
podcast and, if you're there,please also give us a review.
Five stars do amazing thingsfor the podcast, and with that,
here's our conversation withRita Abdalla.
Rita, tell our listeners aboutyourself, your practice and your
(02:33):
work helping people to copewith and thrive with their
experiences involving loneliness.
Rita Abdallah (02:42):
Hi Greg and hi everyone.
Thank you for having me here.
As a therapist, I work withadults and often I witness
clients struggling with andtrying to navigate the feelings
of isolation, socialdisconnection, and loneliness.
I'm not talking about momentsof loneliness that naturally
(03:02):
arise in life events such asdeath, divorce, and job changes.
This type of loneliness thatnaturally arise in life events
such as death, divorce and jobchanges, this type of loneliness
that we're talking about today,gradually evolves into a
mindset and a wound in the heart.
Loneliness somehow becomes anidentity.
I'll start with a story hereright away.
And I have a couple of clientsin my therapy practice and
(03:24):
they're young and wantrelationships, romantic
connections.
You have the idea of going outasking somebody.
Spending one-on-one time withsomebody in that capacity is so
far away and far removed fromwhat they could even imagine for
themselves.
(03:50):
And that fear not onlydebilitates them, but it also
paralyzes them to the point ofwhere they shut down, get
overwhelmed and it takes a whilefor them to recover, even after
we have a very briefconversation about it.
We'll have to circle back andtalk about other things so that
we future move into space just alittle bit at a time.
For example, one person thatI'm working with we'll call him
(04:11):
Peter and often says go toStarbucks and just sit for an
hour and just look at people andtry to think in different
surroundings I probably call herand her job and he was able to
go and sit for the hour butspent the entire time looking
after her.
So, our reinforcement was verylittle in a live setting.
David Liss (04:33):
I think that's becoming our natural default.
Rita Abdallah (04:37):
I think so too, and for people who crave
companionship, they have to stepoutside of what's in their
hands.
They are trying to find a pathforward and it has to happen
with one small conversation withsomebody they feel safe with at
a time, or hopefully Peter canfind his way into what is
(04:59):
comfortable for him andhopefully, natural at some point
he gets so foreign forward tohandle my study that it's
overshadowed my ability to moveforward in that direction.
In the loneliness phase, ifwe're going to talk therapy,
some clinical symptoms show upand that we already highlighted
with fever, anxiety, but there'salso depression and guilt and
(05:20):
even suicide happens.
In the loneliness phase, peopletend to shut down and feel that
the world is harsh andjudgmental and they're never
going to be able to survive in asocial setting such as their
local communities or travel ordo things that again may require
(05:43):
human interaction.
Is it bordering on agoraphobia?
Or do things that again may?
David Liss (05:45):
require human interaction.
Is it bordering on agoraphobiaor something like that, where
people have a loneliness ofmaking people fearful of
interaction?
Rita Abdallah (05:57):
They crave it, and yet they push it away at the
same time.
And the boys push it away, it'slouder and louder, and so
they'd rather it's safer forthem.
So, they think that you'rebeing a familiar face all the
time, instead of thinking thatcourageous.
We both have fear when weinteract with the world,
(06:18):
whatever that might look like.
David Liss (06:19):
So, it's a catch-22.
You don't want to be, butyou're fearful, when you're with
other people, from not beingalone.
Rita Abdallah (06:28):
Yes, and when you are with other people, you're
so uncomfortable that it makesother people uncomfortable.
They don't know what theiragenda is.
They're stressed because of thediscomfort that person is
expressing, whether it's inverbal or nonverbal ways.
Another story Sure.
I work with a middle-aged womanwith a chronic illness.
(06:49):
No one can meet new people invarious social settings.
In fact, she will describe whathappens in those social
settings.
A race you know rejects itbecause of her being seen by
others as compromised.
Whether people vocalize it ornot, when somebody's disabled
(07:12):
and may need extra helpaccording to their person, they
tend not to want a whole lot ofsocial taking or the next step
to meeting one-on-one with her.
And that space of rejectioncreated loneliness in her.
It's like her attempt to outof there.
David Liss (07:33):
I guess it's the kind of thing where you want
something to reinforce theeffort and I guess just because
you're making an effort doesn'tmean you'll get some kind of
positive feedback for trying.
Yes, effort doesn't mean you'llget some kind of positive
feedback for trying.
Can you tell us about yourbackground and your work as a
therapist and as a yoga teacher?
Rita Abdallah (07:55):
Yeah, I've been a social worker for over 30 years
and work with people ofdifferent backgrounds who are
dealing with a variety of lifetroubles chronic illness,
relationships, job chambers andmuch more, and as a yoga and
meditation teacher, I loveteaching how the body and the
(08:17):
breath allow us to reset thenervous system.
Our studio in Cleveland, Ohio,Spring Point, yoga, and Wellness
represents a sacred spacededicated to helping people find
the answer, recover from trauma, recover aid in high-level yoga
and meditation classes and tofeel good and create wellness in
(08:40):
the later life.
And it has been so incredibleto witness how students
transform trauma, loneliness,pain and worn out emotional
story into growth and intomistake-free feeding.
David Liss (08:55):
Can you discuss how loneliness and social isolation
impact people today and give usexamples about considerations
related to the effect of socialmedia and the internet on
loneliness?
Rita Abdallah (09:10):
Yes, prey finds into every human being during
their lifetime.
Sometimes loneliness issituational, occurring in a
situation of death, divorce, job, children.
We can remeasure in court death, divorce, job, children,
breakups, romantic breakups,some kinds of perfuming that
(09:32):
helping is missing or empty inone way.
And in many industrializedcountries the numbers of people
who live alone, who remainunmarried and or get divorced
seems to have increased.
But at the same time,involvement in communities such
as clubs or a political partyhave also, you will hear,
decreased, some decrease, andone can argue that we, on
(09:56):
average, spend more time aloneand are less invested in
traditional family bonds than atthe beginning of the 20th
century.
So, beyond that, let's talkabout and we'll get to words in
sort of space.
So, we've talked aboutloneliness and let's now bring
in social isolation.
(10:17):
There is a distinction betweenthe two.
The American PsychologicalAssociation describes social
isolation as a state in which anindividual lacks a sense of
social belonging throughengagement with others and
fulfilling relationships, forexample.
Social isolation is what occursduring a period of risk.
(10:39):
When you take your mind backinto COVID-19 and where you're
at and what did you read on interms of coping and support,
it's very likely that you spenta lot of time on your devices.
You may have participated hereand there and provided some kind
words to people, but for themost part you were in that space
(11:00):
of technology more thaninteracting in life sanity.
Post-horizontal isolation iswhat occurred during the
pandemic Graphic separation,limited interactions with loved
ones, fear of social gatherings.
We were forced to live inconfinement within a very narrow
radius geographically, socially, emotionally, and mentally.
(11:24):
It brought me to a teachingfrom one of my favorite fearful
people, Donald Donahue, and hefared with his insight on social
isolation.
When we become isolated, we areprone to being damaged.
Our minds lose theirflexibility and nap for a while.
(11:45):
We become vulnerable to fearand negativity.
David Liss (11:50):
So that's social isolation, and how is social
isolation linked to loneliness?
Rita Abdallah (12:02):
Great question.
Let's turn to statistics thathelp us make that distinction.
According to the AmericanPsychological Research,
loneliness is defined by fecallevels of their sexual identity
or their perceived social travel.
Nearly 70% of US adults have atleast one social media account
(12:24):
and the average Americaninternet user has seven.
It appears that Americans aremore socially connected than
ever, yet one in five recordsOften are always feeling low
rate.
Where does this lead us to thisquestion?
The social media calls aresinful and social isolation.
(12:44):
The answer is not simply yes orno.
In 2018, the Kaiser FamilyFoundation explored loneliness
of socialized for laser.
What did they discoverTwenty-two percent of US adults
were thought to be reportedoften or always fearing memory,
a lack of contact, a lack ofself-care or isolated from
(13:07):
others.
The majority of individualsreporting loneliness were under
the age of fifty, single ordivorced.
Respondents reported that theyhave fewer confidants and or
fewer or no nearby friends overthe years.
David Liss (13:26):
What is the difference between loneliness
and solitude?
Rita Abdallah (13:31):
Yes.
So social isolation is againpretty core devices and keeping
us purposefully, we keepourselves hidden if we welcome
the world and limit ourinteraction with others.
Loneliness is a much morecomplex state of being that is
more than just isolating that.
(13:52):
It draws us into more peacefulexistential places of how we
belong, where we belong here.
And so now we're going to add,yes, social isolation and
loneliness, a word calledloneliness.
Again, I return to a key thingfrom Don O'Donoghue in his book
(14:16):
called Infernal Echoes.
If there is one of us in theworld, and it takes great
courage to meet the full forceof your own, most of the
activity of society issubconsciously designed to quell
the voice crying in thewilderness with you.
And until you learn to inhabityour aloneness, the lonely
(14:42):
destruction of noise or societywill seduce you into your false
belonging, with which you willonly become empty and weary.
When you face your aloneness,gradually, over.
sense of gladness flows over Itis a slow and open-ended
(15:09):
transition, but it is utterlyvital to conform to a rythym of
your individuality.
This is the endless path offinding your true home within
your lens.
It is not our circumstance, foras soon as you rest in the
house of your own heart, doorand window begin to open outward
(15:33):
to the world.
No longer on the run from yourloneliness, your connection with
others becomes real and free.
You no longer need to covertlyscrape affirmation from others
or progress outside your comfortzone and often that's the brief
(15:53):
of third place where there'scomfort and safety in mindful
company, the pleasure ofinteracting in the world on our
own and the joy of loving theself with the resistance when we
experience any form ofsuffering by being alone or
heading into loneliness.
Suffering can take on the formsof thought healing, physical
(16:17):
healing or spiritual hope.
Solitude is more inspiring,uplifting and connected to the
heart.
David Liss (16:24):
So does this mean that you're trying to, that
you're trying to, on anindividual level, take the
negativity away from theexperience of being by yourself
and try and find value in theopportunity of being alone.
Rita Abdallah (16:43):
Yes, solitude of cooperating, that enjoyment
during something whether you'reat home cooking or taking a walk
or watching a sunset that fromenjoyment or doing something
whether you're at home cookingor taking a walk or watching a
sunset that you're still justgrowing and that you're not
afraid of the quiet space thathappens when you are on your own
(17:04):
, that there are treasures andthat they're not there because
you're exhausted from doingthose all day and distracting
yourself all you want.
That they're not there becauseyou're exhausted from doing
those all day and distractingyourself all you want.
But they're looking forward tothat quiet time, that solitude,
or not only the quiet time, tomaybe do nothing but maybe do
something with some presence,meaning or just not one more
(17:27):
thing to do or more thing toescape or avoid and fantasize
about.
David Liss (17:31):
What has your experience been as a therapist
and as a yoga teacher?
Rita Abdallah (17:35):
So we highlighted the stories of Peter and we'll
call me over for some marriageand so when we highlighted those
in the therapy study, you cansee the individual and the
struggles that they encounter,with Peter going through coffee
stop and his inability tointeract with others and fan of
the right, whereas Mary is madefor seeking that to engage
(17:59):
others and yet there's no realsubstance for them, which asks
for more interaction and moreconnection.
So, let's talk about lonelinessnow from a yoga teacher's
perspective.
Yes, yoga teaches us thatsomething exists in each one of
us that is limitless and realand connected to all things.
(18:20):
That are all three.
So much so that if you feltsomething under the surface, you
would never feel alone.
This is why yoga is a sensorysolitary.
Sure, we can go to a busystudio and feel joy as part of a
community, but at the end ofthe day, you have to keep
(18:40):
showing up on your mask must Youstand on the mask and face
whatever arises during thepressure must We keep
encouraging ourselves to dropour heart so that we can gently
conquer our own return and bonusof suffering.
David Liss (18:59):
Is there an element related to a lack of physical
touch?
I mean it could be anythingfrom a shaking hands to a hug.
Is that part of it also?
I mean you don't have anyphysical touch or human
interaction of some kind.
Rita Abdallah (19:16):
Yes, absolutely.
And some of us are reallycomfortable in craving breath
and some of us don't even knowthat we crave that and then some
of us don't crave it at all.
And there's such power inconnection and physical and
community and getting to knowpeople and getting exchange in
(19:42):
that way.
So, it's difficult for theperson and the situation.
Great honor, it's a greatquestion, David.
David Liss (19:50):
Well, thank you.
What kind of trends are younoticing in terms group any of
people that are experiencingproblematic loneliness?
Older people, younger people,men, women, children.
Rita Abdallah (20:07):
Yes, that's an excellent question.
I think everyone and anyone isgoing to be touched by
loneliness at some point.
Are there griefs that areaffected more than others?
There was a poll that theyconducted and 30% of the
(20:29):
respondents 18 to 34, said theyfeel lonely every day, for
several days a week.
And the poll among 4,200 adultsalso found that single adults
are 20% as likely as marriedadults to children only, which
makes sense, right Thirty-ninepercent versus twenty-two
(20:51):
percent.
And about 50% of these 2,200ease their loneliness with
distraction like TV, podcasts,and social media.
And another 41% of that groupsaid they go for walks or reach
out to family or friends.
(21:14):
And some of us turn tosubstance-like drugs and alcohol
to ease loneliness, andaccording to this survey,
fortunately, that's about 13%.
I would think it's a littlehigher than that based on what
I've seen on therapy, withadults 18 to 34, more likely to
(21:34):
use substance use, than girls 45to 64 years of age.
Now that brings up Again within2,200 adults.
The highest sense of communityand belonging comes from family,
friends and neighbors, and theleast helpful places to feel
less lonely were onlinecommunities and discussion
(21:54):
forums.
Sports and Rec team and gym andfitness practice really would
say oh, you're feeling lonely,you should join a gym.
If you're lonely, you should gowatch a sport at a bar or go
watch a game, and yet things are.
That's not what showed up, whichI think is surprising in this
particular era.
David Liss (22:13):
Yeah, I guess it's like with some of these things,
you can be with other people butstill, like you were saying
earlier, still be by yourself ina sense.
Do these statistics bear out interms of what you've seen in
your own practice and your ownexperience with people in the
different places?
You have audiences and interact.
Rita Abdallah (22:33):
Yes, even a personal example I walk outside
every day and most of the peoplethat I see on the path, if you
are on their own.
There are couples spendingtogether with friends and
getting together with family,but for the most part, people
are on their own and enjoyingtheir moment of self-care.
That's solid.
(22:54):
I don't think it's a bad thingor a good thing.
I've been to social settingswhere people come on their own
it's more of a norm, and sothere are a lot of people
impressive.
There are people who again tryto go to social study and try to
(23:15):
make connections with people,and it's a big thing whether
they're experiencing a positiveor something else.
David Liss (23:24):
What kind of tools are there for people to address
these feelings and buildrelationships or feelings of
connection?
Rita Abdallah (23:35):
Yes, another great question.
What you don't have to talkabout is the difference between
solitude and mal-later.
Solitude is an inspired faithfor us, for the end right, it's
that idea of belonging toourselves and to the world, of
belonging to ourselves and tothe world, whereas loneliness is
a space of longing.
(23:55):
And we glance in between thesolitude and loneliness and
belonging and longing throughoutour lives and some of us can
vanish it in healthy ways andsome of us make other choices
that alleviate suffering ornegativity and faith and federal
and temporary experience ofbelonging.
(24:15):
So first, in my opinion, weneed to become aware of when we
cross those lines betweenstepping out of solitude and
belonging and stepping intobelonging after belonging.
By asking ourselves a fewquestions, we can determine if
it's time to collectively workthrough loneliness and notice
(24:36):
how often we experience feeling,to give us a clear
understanding of how lonely weare day to day.
Let me give you some of thesequestions for reflection.
Do I feel like I'm missingsocial contact with others?
Do I feel I'm spending time bymyself in a negative way, in a
(24:58):
way that I'm suffering, orsomething else?
Do I have positive andsupportive relationships with my
wife?
This one's big for a lot of us.
We have a very small circle andwhen those people are not
available, that can triggerfeelings of loneliness and
isolation.
How does contact with yourfriends and family make you feel
(25:21):
Positive, happy, hard?
Do I feel like I've lost myconfidence and social skills?
Do I feel I have a negativeview of myself and others?
Do I prefer the company of mydevice versus being out in the
world?
So the CDC Affidavit of Controlsays that people can combat
(25:45):
loneliness by spending some timewith people that they know.
So, starting from a safe placewhere there's small interactions
right, you don't have to spendfour hours with people that you
know and care about.
Maybe it's a CME, maybe it's aphone call.
Having a little bit of planningahead might help with the
anxiety and overwhelm of beingout of fear in the world.
(26:08):
Looking at clubs Meetup.
org is a wonderful place if youhave a specific hobby and want
to feed others locally are alsoengaged in that particular
activity.
For you to get out again,you're choosing something safe,
something that you know and area part of the people that you're
(26:28):
interacting with in thoseparticular experiences Going out
with an influencer, as I said,walking outside, catching a
sunrise, sunset anything thatallows your eyes to travel and
feel fresh air is good for thesoul.
Expressing gratitude to others,feeling thankful for the
interactions, whatever they maybe, small or big, being grateful
(26:54):
.
Find a passengera passion.
If you like animals, if youlike babies, life working with
older adults.
There's something there that'svaluable and that will be that
safe space for you to interactfrom a place that's something
that you care about.
Or maybe there's a neighbor orsomebody local that you can say
hello to.
David Liss (27:12):
Is there a perfect space?
In the sense that is, it should.
The expectation that we allhave is that at some point in
our lives we'll have someelements of solitude through our
day or in the course of ourweek day or month, and then
other times when there'll beloneliness must we address in
(27:35):
some way.
Is there an ideal state?
Rita Abdallah (27:40):
I don't know if there is.
I think, because we are human,we never know Today could be a
great day.
I think, because we are human,we never know Today could be a
great day and then all of asudden, something suddenly
happens and the switch flips andthe next day you wake up
differently.
We all have that encounterwhere we're balancing the three
(28:00):
things we're being, and so oneday you're perfectly fine with
being on your own and enjoyingyour own company, and another
time you may see something on TVor something when you go
grocery shopping.
But you see something and allof a sudden you just walk into
loneliness.
You entered into that state andthat space is so such a
(28:21):
wonderful opportunity for growth.
So, the faster we can becomeaware that we are in that state
of loneliness and there's adiscomfort or being awkward,
feeling awkward, that the momentwe have that theory or that
thought, that we go into it,that we're not avoiding,
escaping, and running from it,that we're in the moment with
(28:44):
loneliness, the single-stagerfear.
I want to get to know you alittle bit better.
Why are you here?
What are you here to teach me?
And spending that quality timeto move through it?
Because if we shove itsomewhere.
It starts to accumulate andconsume us, and then can become
(29:04):
overwhelming colon.
And that's become felt-free andlulling our fits.
It may require otherintervention and maybe you turn
to something sort of a device ormore, and so we want to get a
full bit of loneliness.
We need to turn these feelingsof loneliness around and allow
it to turn back, or to transformitself back into quality and
(29:28):
learning.
David Liss (29:30):
Did I ask that question.
Yeah, I think so.
I think for a lot of people too, one of the most uncomfortable
places to be is alone with yourthoughts, and that something
that gets you out of the spaceof being in your thoughts can
take away from those feelings,not necessarily solve the
(29:50):
problems.
I guess it's a crutch as muchas anything else, or it can be,
seems to me, but I know I'm asaddicted to my phone as most
other people I meet.
I don't know how you feel abouthow our technology is
overwhelming our lives andentering into considerations for
(30:10):
solitude and loneliness.
Rita Abdallah (30:13):
Yes, what's trending now are digital drinks.
And how do we remove away fromtechnology and into the
experience of being present?
Because we're here to collectand create moments and exchange
meaningful connections andpractice this love and joy in
the world.
That's our purpose, that's whatwe're here to do, and when we
(30:39):
move away from our devices,we're giving ourselves our first
the opportunity to check in, tolook at the world through our
own eyes, have our ownexperience of the world, and for
me, when I go out with friends,I'll leave the phone with the
ear.
(30:59):
She tells me there's nothingelse I want to do but be with
them.
I can always get to my phone.
It'll be there.
The first time or two timesthat I did that, that was a
little untethered, but I left itat home and now it's a regular
practice and I absolutely loveit.
The world is not going to changein such a dramatic fashion that
(31:23):
two hours away from the phoneis going to make or break my
life, and I'm of a generationwhere cell phones didn't happen
until months later in my life.
So, it's now a comfort level.
I take comfort in my room wherethat device is put away.
I've also, not only in my ownlife but as an entire client,
(31:43):
considered to not have anydigital, any devices in their
bedroom, that their bedroom wasmeant for free and inspiration,
and so you create deliberatespaces in the house where
devices are not present, whetherit's a bedroom, in a kitchen,
somewhere else, living room thatmaybe there are quotes, there's
art, there's pictures of peoplethat you care about or travels
(32:07):
that you've been on.
That just brings you into amoment of solitude and not
where's my phone, like a thingYou're there to cultivate that
solitude?
David Liss (32:18):
Are you explaining what a digital break is?
Rita Abdallah (32:23):
Yes, that is a digital break is or a funeral?
Yeah, that is a digital break.
There are people who also Ihave a friend who friends and
time-logged heaven and there wasno internet access, and there
are places now that will ask youto hand over your phones or
that you'll not be able tointeract with the world, just so
that you can have your owninternet, one of the things that
(32:44):
you can kind of go in adifferent way.
David Liss (32:45):
One of the things that I thought was interesting
just in conversation we've had apart from the recording is that
we can find ways to just spendour days without clicking our
way through the day.
Could you speak to that alittle bit?
Rita Abdallah (33:06):
Yes, there are also some other words we can put
into our space today.
There is a difference betweenhabit and routine and ritual,
and habits and routines are thegrind, the things that you do
every day, and they're mindless.
They're your daily routines,brushing your teeth, taking a
(33:29):
shower, putting your clothes on,and then there are rituals.
I get up, I place both feet onthe ground so grateful to be
alive and grounded in my life isnow a ritual.
Brushing my teeth, my ability touse my hand, is now a ritual,
and so taking none of thosethings and so much more for
(33:51):
granted, that our freedom, ourindependence, our ability to
drive, put clothes on you, lookin the mirror and smile all
these things are coming from aplace of ritual Blessing the day
between a start and blessingthe day at the end, when
everything that happened andeveryone you interact with will
be free.
All those moments collectedinto one 24-hour period, and you
(34:14):
can ask yourself did that todaymake me smile or did it make me
grow?
And every day you can come backto our question and find a new
answer.
You have to do it.
Ask yourself, are you in thespace of habit and routine just
getting through the day, or areyou in the spirit of being
(34:35):
present with your growth andexcited to do all the things
that allow you to have awonderful day?
Can you speak?
David Liss (34:44):
to how someone like yourself or mental health
professionals can help peoplenavigate this and understand
themselves better.
And are there resources thatyou're aware of for people who
may not have insurance or areshy about maybe seeing a
counselor Sure, I'll speak tothe resources in that bit a
little bit or shy about seeinga counselor?
Rita Abdallah (35:04):
Sure, I'll speak to the resources and then dig a
little bit.
There are resources incommunities that allow for
discounted or sliding scaletherapy options.
If you find a therapist thatyou like when you research
online, sometimes they offer adiscounted rate.
And then there are localnonprofits besides their offer
(35:25):
affordable health care.
So, there are several ways toget into that.
I think.
As far as comfort level, peoplecan have one of two options.
They can meet with a therapistin a virtual setting and so they
can be in the comfort of theirown seat having that
conversation with somebody ontheir device.
The other is to meet with atherapist in a live setting with
(35:50):
a therapy offer.
There are options there as well, experiencing social isolation
and loneliness and want to takeadvantage of the opportunity to
meet with somebody in a safe,confidential space and get them
(36:15):
tools and insights and practicesso that they can cultivate more
solitude than loneliness in ourlives.
The compassion, the approach tocare can go right from very
clinical, specific ways toforward interventions, depending
(36:36):
on what the client is seeking.
Go ahead Sam.
David Liss (36:41):
Is there a place for journaling?
If someone's going to dosomething like that, are there
two or three things they shouldlook to incorporate into that
kind of practice on a dailybasis?
Rita Abdallah (36:54):
Yes, I'm trained as a social worker and in our
perspective, we often say wemeet the patient or client where
they're at, and one clientmight want to be fed off,
another might want to listen tomusic, use for exercise, what
else.
But again, moving out of habitand routine into ritual, I could
(37:15):
give homework in a number ofdifferent ways.
I may encourage them to reachout and talk to somebody and
have a conversation or gooutside of nature, so it just
depends.
I would say within the lastseveral months I've recommended
books to clients, and I wouldsay value is 50-50.
I don't like reading books.
(37:37):
Can you send me a video?
And there are some things fromthat author that I could use
online.
So, it just depends.
It's very dependent on theperson and their attention span
and their motivation.
I can recommend something as aname of nothing or director.
David Liss (37:58):
Are there any success stories you would like
to share from your practice as atherapist?
Rita Abdallah (38:07):
With self-isolation and loneliness.
David Liss (38:09):
Yes.
Rita Abdallah (38:10):
Or how they conquer that.
David Liss (38:12):
Or how they.
Sometimes, I think we look ateverything as a victory, but
sometimes it's not like there'sa win-loss, but that we found a
way to keep the demons at bay,or something like that.
Rita Abdallah (38:24):
One of my core philosophies is that life is a
practice.
You don't rarely, you don't getdown, you get up, you get down,
you get up, you get down, youget up.
So, there's no failures, nopasses.
And when life is a practice,and a person presents themselves
in a therapy setting and yogasettings that what are we
practicing?
And so, then we move into thatpractice.
(38:49):
Are we going to practicesitting into the loneliness?
Are we going to practice movingloneliness of and into
solitude?
What is it that we'repracticing that allows you to
feel good and to grow, and Ithink a success story is me
being a humble witness to helppeople find their life.
David Liss (39:10):
That's very nice If you could give people a takeaway
.
Are there four or five thingsthat you think are most
important for people to considerin their own lives as they're
trying to establish an abilityfor solitude and confront any
feelings of loneliness that theyhave in their lives?
Rita Abdallah (39:30):
Yes.
So, I would say, look at yourphysical state.
Let's start there.
What does it look like?
Do you have either the colorsbright or happy in your space?
Do you have pictures, art, toysin your house that allow you to
feel connected to others and toyour heart?
(39:51):
And because what you look atevery day impacts on your
influence, how does the facearound you influence your world
and where does your space takeyou?
If you will, I would also takethat to the next step, because
we spend so much time on ourdevices, what do your screen
savers look like?
Doing all for native spirit ofjoy, peace, love, gratitude and
(40:15):
change from love.
Right, I flip through sunsetsall the time.
So anytime I get to watch thesunset, those end up being my
screen saver for the week.
So that's physical, so that'svery simple.
So my physical state.
Emotionally speaking, moving outof the again, the routine habit
of moving into ritual is stillemotionally valuable.
(40:37):
That you're looking forward,you're excited, curious,
grateful to brush your teeth,that you're putting your feet on
the ground for the first time,that you get to close your eyes,
that you feel safe.
You keep it very simple on theemotional side.
And then, when events occur inyour life that seem so
(40:57):
overwhelming in nature?
How can you get into thenervous system?
Take some breath and moveyourself back into the neutral.
Remind yourself.
What is the next strategy?
Remind yourself what are youpracticing in the vulnerable?
Are you practicing somethinggood or something that's just
safe?
(41:18):
Are you practicing somethinginspiring or practicing
something that is painful?
You choose and create thepractice.
Nobody else does thinginspiring or practicing
something that you're painful?
You choose and create thepractice.
Nobody else does.
And yes, other things willhappen, and influence may
potentially influence you.
But how do you navigate theinfluence and to what degree is
(41:39):
entirely up to you.
And then from then, lastly, Iwould say, the mental force.
Your thoughts are temporary,and remind yourself constantly
that thoughts can come and go.
Recently, there has been anevent in my life where I'm
asking the same question overand over again and at some
(42:02):
point, I stopped and moved intoa space of awareness.
I realized I was cracklingthought.
I stopped and became aware thatthis was not a part of what was
serving me, causing suffering,and then, in that moment of
awareness, I decided to replacethat thought with one of my own
servings.
I'm enough, I'm enough, I'menough, I'm enough.
(42:25):
I'm enough, I'm enough Over andover again, and whenever the
other thought comes back, it'slike me doing ten push-ups,
right?
So, I have to say that thingten times to get myself out of
that space I don't want to be in.
I hope these tips are helpful.
David Liss (42:39):
No, I think that's great.
As we close our conversation,are there parting thoughts or
something you'd like to sharewith our listeners?
Rita Abdallah (42:51):
I would say incorporate some of these
vocabulary words that I'm aboutto share into your life.
I think having new wordscreates new energy for us and
awareness, and so the words thatI want to highlight from our
conversation loneliness andlonging, solitude and belonging,
(43:13):
social isolation, connectionand practicing life.
So those are great vocabularywords for us to integrate,
incorporate as we move along inour day-to-day and then help
shape and frame the moment inour lives in ways that allow us
to grow and cope in healthy ways.
David Liss (43:38):
Are there words that guide you, that you could share
with our listeners?
Rita Abdallah (43:43):
Yeah, I think we're going to sum up our
conversation today, david.
It's through this beautifulprayer written by John O'Donohue
.
It is called A Glyphic Orthodox.
May you recognize in your lifethe presence, power, and lines
(44:03):
of your soul.
May you realize that you arenot alone, that your soul, in
its brightness and belonging,connects you intimately with the
rhythm of your heart.
May you have respect for yourown individuality and difference
.
May you realize that the shapeof your soul is unique, that you
(44:29):
have a special destiny here,that behind the facade of your
life there is somethingbeautiful, good, and eternal for
you.
May you learn to see yourselfwith the same villain, pride and
expectation with which God seesyou in every moment.
David Liss (44:56):
A huge thanks to our guest, Rita Abdallah.
To learn more about Rita andher work as a therapist and
speaker, please visit www.
R itaAbdallah.
com.
Thank you for joining us forWellness Musketeers.
(45:17):
Tune in for upcoming episodes.
To learn how to live with agreater understanding of the
world we experience together.
Please subscribe, give us afive-star review, and share this
recording with your family andfriends.
Let us know what you need tolearn to help you live your best
life.
Send your questions and ideasabout future episodes to Dave
(45:37):
Liss at Davidmliss@gmail.
com .
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