November 3, 2022 • 39 mins
Listen in as two dietitians discuss the pros and cons of the new(ish) trend: The Carnivore Diet! Vanessa and Emily will take you on a trip that will include the history, origin, and close details of this meat-centric way of eating. You’ll learn all about meat as a protein source, what a lack of fruits + veggies can cause, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Emily (00:00):
Welcome to wellness.
Miss the podcast where we take ahard look at the nutrition and
wellness industry through a nobullshit lens.
My name is, and I'm ananti-intuitive eating ed diet
and yoga.
Vanessa (00:13):
And my name's Vanessa.
I am also a registered dieticianand I specialize in hormone.
Emily.
And I met back in college whenwe were studying to be
dieticians and we basicallynever left each other's side.
Since the moment we met and postgrad, we haven't really left
each other's side either we liveacross the country from each
(00:33):
other, but that hasn't stoppedus from being business partners
and talking almost every minuteof every day.
Emily (00:41):
This is all very true.
And Vanessa and I decided thatwe wanted share some of these
conversations with everyone.
So with that, let's get intothis week's
Vanessa (01:02):
Welcome to Wellness Myths.
So this week we are talkingabout the carnivore diet.
Emily (01:08):
This one is going to just absolutely send me, and I have
to say that I didn't really doany research about this one.
So it's gonna be all of Vanessathis week, and you can just hear
my live reactions, which I thinkwill still be like a pretty fair
contribution honestly.
Vanessa (01:21):
Yeah, I think Emily will have a lot to say about
this.
So, Actually, this was alistener request, so shout out
to Bailey.
She popped into our dms and waslike, Hey, you guys should be
doing an episode about thecarnivore diet, because I've
been seeing it all over myInstagram lately, and I'm so
glad she did because I've beenseeing it around a ton too.
(01:42):
So I'm pretty excited to do thisone.
I brought this up with anotherdietician recently and.
So there's also a subsection ofthe carnivore dieters that are
raw carnivore dieters whichwe're not really gonna talk
about today cause that would belike a whole podcast in and of
itself.
But that pod Raw Raw, yeah, rawcarnivore.
(02:06):
And that that dietician wentwell.
I hope those people go just eatsome raw pork and that'll finish
'em off cause.
Because like raw or undercookedpart pork, you can get trico
from, which is not necessarilyfatal, but it can be fatal in
serious cases.
(02:26):
So it's definitely like one ofthose meats that like, you don't
want to eat pork that's pink orthat's bleeding, like in the
same way that you would maybeeat a steak like that and it
would be okay.
So it just cracked me up thatshe said that because I was
like, Oh my gosh.
And then she was like, Oh, wow.
I probably shouldn't have saidthat.
I was like, No, you're, It's theright audience.
Emily (02:48):
The only people or, well, let's say like beings that are
eating raw meat that I knowabout like right now, are cats.
Like, some cats eat like a rawmeat diet, don't they?
Vanessa (03:00):
Or dogs?
Yeah, I mean, any.
Really.
But that's much different.
And I actually made a note aboutthat to talk about at some
point, cuz some people willargue that like, why can dogs
eat rammy?
And we can't, We'll talk aboutthat in a little bit.
I mean, why are we even askingthose kinds of questions?
It's so ridiculous.
But I'll answer it anyway.
(03:21):
I also actually kind of offtopic, but I wanted to mention
this on.
So I actually, I, I went into mydms today on Instagram and I had
a request, like someone wasrequesting to send me a dm and I
went in and it was like a localHerbal Life distributor that was
sending me a coupon.
Emily (03:42):
No.
Vanessa (03:44):
I was like, Oh my gosh.
Obviously they don't listen tothe podcast because they
definitely would not be sendingme that coupon.
If they did, or maybe likethey're trying to convert me
over, I'm not really sure, butit cracked me up.
I was like, I'm not youraudience.
Emily (03:59):
Oh my God, that's definitely staying in the
request for sure.
Vanessa (04:02):
Yes, Yes it is.
Emily (04:04):
Yikes.
Vanessa (04:05):
Okay, so let's dive into the carnivore diet.
So what is the carnivore diet?
It's basically exactly what itsounds like.
So people who are participatingin this diet are only eating
meat or animal products forevery meal.
So hardcore carnivore, dieters.
Literally no fruits, no veggies,no grains, no legumes, no nuts,
(04:28):
no seeds, nothing that doesn'tcome from an animal.
It is animal products only.
It's Emily's face right now isso funny because she is
obviously a vegan.
So this is literally theopposite of the
Emily (04:43):
Literally the opposite.
Truly the opposite.
I'm just so confused.
Like I just, I feel like it'ssuper interesting because it
just reminds, it's just likeanother high protein diet.
Like at the end of the day, I'm,I'm really curious to hear more.
Vanessa (04:59):
It's very high protein and it's also very low carb.
So obviously dairy productsyou're gonna get some carbs from
but virtually everything elseyou're not.
So it's, it's very, very lowcarb.
And so, With it being low carbpeople will start to feel really
(05:20):
good.
And we talked about this alittle bit last night actually
in our group coaching sessionabout how we have this, you
know, if you immediately cutcarbs out of your diet, you
might feel.
really good for a minute, andthat's because you're not
experiencing those same kind ofblood sugar spikes that you may
have before.
Does that mean that's good foryou?
(05:41):
Or sustainable?
Absolutely not.
But it is not, We are not sayingthat you might not feel good at
first in doing something like.
We're not promoting it at all,but yeah, it's very, you know,
we can expect that you mightfeel really good at first if
you're avoiding a blood sugar.
Emily (06:01):
Especially if like, you know, you've really, you really
feel like this is the right movefor you and you feel excited
when you first begin a diet.
And I think that placebo effectcan be really real.
But like Vanessa said, there's.
So many dangers to not havingcarbs, even though you might
feel like that short termbenefit of being off of the
rollercoaster.
I, like I said, I did not reallydo any research, but the one
(06:22):
thing that I did see that poppedup was James Blunt, like the
singer he developed scurvy,which is a vitamin C deficiency
after attempting the carnivorediet.
Vanessa (06:34):
Oh my gosh.
Emily (06:36):
Yeah.
And you wanna know whose crazyass made this a thing?
Do you know
Vanessa (06:43):
No,
Emily (06:44):
Joe Rogan?
Of course.
Which wouldn't it just be thebest to do an episode on him?
Like, Oh my God, that would beso good.
We have to do that too.
We could do episodes on specificJoe Rogan, like Joe Rogan React
podcast.
That's like what we couldprovide.
Vanessa (07:01):
like just a podcast about staying in your lane.
Like just stay in your goddamnlane.
Emily (07:07):
What is his lane though?
Honestly, I don't even know, buthe did.
Last January, Joe Rogan waslike, Okay, it's World Carni War
Month and he ate only me and frlike he decided, you know what?
I saw what shit happened toJames Blunt and I was like, I'm
gonna put some oranges in here.
But, but he also did it.
And I think that, I'm surethat's probably why you see it
(07:28):
more often.
Vanessa (07:30):
Yes, And you will see some people that are on a
carnivore diet that will alsoeat fruit.
I'm gonna talk about aninfluencer specifically because
it's someone that always pops upon my stuff and I'm really not
sure why.
Like, I don't follow them, buttheir content always gets to me
somehow.
But yes, some carnivore dieterswill eat fruit fruit and honey.
(07:53):
But other than that, no veggiesor anything like that.
So what is the problem withdoing this Okay, so if you're
only eating animal products,obviously you're missing a lot
of nutrients, right?
And a big one of those would befiber.
So these people, I don't knowhow they're going to the
bathroom.
Emily (08:13):
the constipation must be so real like
Vanessa (08:16):
I mean, they claim that it's all fine, but I just don't
know how that would be possible.
The other claim is that they'renot eating veggies because they
are resisting digestion andthey're saying that that's bad.
When really we think that's agood thing.
When things resist digestion,that's what allows to, you know,
(08:38):
feed our gut bacteria and bulkup our stools.
So we like those things thatresist digestion.
Fiber is something that resistsdigestion, and that's why we
love it so much.
So it's really interestingbecause they're like, Why would
you eat something that resistsdigestion that doesn't wanna be
eaten as if a, a cow does wantto be eaten?
Emily (08:59):
I was literally like right to have my vegan line
there like so quickly, but youbeat me to it.
Vanessa (09:05):
So obviously we're concerned just about, you know,
cutting out food groups.
And anytime we're, you know,restricting that much, we're
gonna have deficiencies,potentially scurvy, I mean,
that's really a perfect exampleof something that could easily
happen on a diet like this.
Something else that we'reconcerned about when we're
eating animal products only.
(09:26):
You're probably eating a lot, alot of saturated fat.
And while that's something thatyou know, unless you're keto or
one of these other crazy diets,I wouldn't be too, too concerned
about.
But if you're eating like fatonly kind of a problem and
that's gonna put you atincreased risk for heart
disease.
Emily (09:46):
And there's a lot of research about the consumption
of me and specifically red meand certain types of cancer,
like, you know, gastric cancer,stomach cancer, all those
things.
I think it's like, Any studythat kind of demonizes, like one
specific food is sort of aproblem and people might be
like, Wow, she's vegan.
She's gonna say that.
Like, yeah, because it's, it'sjust kind of silly to me.
(10:08):
Like I don't really understand.
There's so many differentlifestyle factors.
Like if you eat processed meatall the time, where it's like
when we talk about gluten-freediets, like, and they're like,
Oh, people who like have anelectively chosen gluten-free
diet.
They're not celiac or anything,their health is better.
And it's like, well, yeah,because they have the resources
to restrict certain food groupsand to, you know, Have control
(10:28):
over their diets, whereas peoplewho are eating processed meat at
every single meal sometimesaren't, right?
Like fast food is the onlyoption.
Or you know, food from a foodpantry is the only option.
And so I think we just have tobe really careful when we look
at research like that and think,Okay, you know what really is
like all the underlying extracharacteristics.
But that being said, You knowwhen we see this sort of
(10:49):
research, it's like if you havemeat at every single meal for
your protein, then you'remissing out on a lot of other
nutrients and also fiber like inthe long term as well.
So it might even be about likewhat you're missing out on,
which having such a restrictivediet, or even having a diet
that's like mostly made up ofanimal products can have that
result.
Vanessa (11:10):
Yeah, I think that you said that in the perfect way.
My biggest concern is whatyou're missing out on.
And that gets me into, so thisinfluencer, he's called the
Carnivore MD on Instagram.
I was looking at some of hiscontent and he was going through
all of these different thingsand being like, These are the
(11:31):
real super foods, which we don'treally subscribe to Super foods,
but Okay, let's, let's go aheadand say, you know, let's pretend
that we do for a minute.
So he's saying that liver is asuper food, and if I'm going to
subscribe to super foods, Iagree.
Like liver is something that'ssuper nutrient dense.
(11:52):
It has super bioavailablenutrients.
But the problem is most peopledon't want to eat liver every
day or at all.
Emily (12:02):
Correct that that would be correct.
It's also interesting too, likeyou don't think about like it's
really nutrient and densebecause like that's where the
nutrients are stored like in, ina body and so Yeah, totally.
I don't really see people likeloving that food as much as they
love like goji berries orsomething that's like the other
super food I always think of.
Vanessa (12:19):
yeah.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
It's like, yes, you might beeating some foods that are good
for your health, but why are youresisting all of these other
foods?
Because those are just part ofthe picture.
Yes, you're getting lots ofnutrients from that, but you're
(12:40):
not eating kale.
This guy in particular alwayswears a kale is bullshit
T-shirt.
he, cuz he
Emily (12:47):
Oh, what
Vanessa (12:49):
Yeah, he doesn't eat vegetables.
so he always is wearing this.
Kale is, But he sells them too,so he's got swag.
And so it's like, yeah, liveris, Kale has a lot of nutrients
too.
So why are you picking andchoosing so hard?
Like which nutrients you likethe most?
Emily (13:10):
Yeah, I think it's just because that doesn't sell, it
just doesn't sell merch.
But I, so like they need themerch.
Like that's, that's likeultimately what the.
Issue is, I was also readingthis other thing saying that,
you know, at these high amountsof protein, that even that can
be potentially, Too much stresson your kidneys.
(13:31):
And this is like another op,another thing that like, we
don't really like, we don'treally need to talk about this
very often because of the factthat like not most people aren't
just like mainlining onlyprotein, but you know, it's just
another one of those thingswhere it's like, oh my gosh.
Like who knows if they're likeat risk for this or not, and
like, you know, this Carnivoremd, whatever his name is, it's
(13:52):
like he's.
Pumping out this informationwithout like any of the
disclaimers.
I even was talking to a friendabout celery juice and she was
like, Oh no.
Like, are you gonna take thataway from me?
Like what?
Like what's the deal with that?
Like, asking my opinion and Iwas telling.
This person that like, you know,if you're on warfare and or
Coumadin, like any of theseblood thinning drugs that you
(14:13):
shouldn't be like having thishuge intake of vitamin cancer.
She's like, Oh my God, my mom'son that.
Like, I could have easily justlike given my mom a bunch of
celery juice because the medicalmedium told me to without like
any other knowledge.
So it's like classic with all ofthese diets, but there's just no
individualized thought at all,as
Vanessa (14:30):
and, and besides all of that too, so like for this
person, with everyone, I thinkthat's on a carnivore diet,
pretty much every video of themis like shirtless or like
smallest amount of clothing aspossible.
They want you to see like theirripped abs and like how good
they look and they're also, andthey feel like they're thriving,
(14:51):
right.
And I'm sure.
Well, some of them might notactually be up, but I'm sure
some of them like do feel reallygreat and are doing great, but
they're promoting this toeveryone.
and we have to remember that weall have different genetics too.
So for someone that doesn't haveany heart disease or issues with
(15:11):
cholesterol or anything likethat in their family, maybe they
can eat quite a bit of saturatedfat and be fine.
Where someone else who, youknow, has heart disease in their
family and maybe has an LDLthat's your bad cholesterol
that's already a little bit highor borderline.
And that diet's gonna send themright over the edge and, you
(15:34):
know, put them more at risk forheart disease.
So that's a big factor in thistoo, is remembering that we are
not all the same.
And that just happens from beingborn and having genetics So you
can't eat the same as someoneelse and think that I'm going to
thrive too.
And especially with somethingreally extreme like.
Emily (15:57):
A hundred percent.
It just, it really doesn't makesense.
And I think that like, you know,the things that we're talking
about too, it's like even, likea lot of these risks would be
happening, like even if you justmade meat, like the main
component of your diet, youknow?
So like, it's not even like,like you don't even have to be
following the carnivore diet,like, So strictly to be getting
some of these negative results.
(16:18):
So that's also like anotherthing to me, it's almost like
the opposite of keto where likesince you're not really
following keto that strictly,like you don't really have like
any of, you're not actually inketosis, Like basically nobody
is.
Because like nobody eats likethe truly tiny amount of that
you need to be in ketosis.
But, With this one, it's likethe wrists are still really
(16:40):
much, so much there when you'rejust having like more meat than
any other food in your diet.
And I think there's this reallylike wild, pervasive thing
lately that's like, I think it'ssort of like the.
anti vegan movement of like, Oh,like, you know, you're living
off the land.
You're meant to like eat thesefoods and coexist with these
animals and whatever.
(17:01):
And everyone's gonna have adifferent value system that they
live by.
But I think it's just reallyimportant to remember that like
the.
Plant-based diets in general arealso like their own culture and
their own like huge piece ofdiet culture and like I think
everybody knows, like I don'tfollow that like for health
reasons or diets reasons.
And that's why I like, I don'tjust sit there preaching only
(17:23):
plant-based nutrition all thetime, but.
and there, I think there'splenty of reasons to not eat
those foods that have nothing todo with the nutrition of them,
but like it really gets verytangled up.
And so I think that likewhenever we see a big surge and
a trend in plant-based products,which a lot of times makes me
happy and it's nice and it's,it's makes my life easier.
It's kind of like, oh shit.
(17:43):
Like it's gonna just kind of gothe other way.
The pendulum's gonna swing theother way.
And then people are like, Oh myGod, you're eating no animal
products.
Well, I'm going to eat all theanimal products.
And it's like, okay, it's just.
So, so messy.
And, but I just, I see how we'vegotten to this point.
I also see how people are like,this is what makes me strong and
this is like, you know, it'slike toxic masculinity in a
(18:06):
diet, sort of.
I just kinda have a hard ideathat hard time thinking that
like there's mostly femaleidentifying people on this diet.
Like, I'm sorry, it's, it's aman
Vanessa (18:17):
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
But that I'm, I'm glad that youbrought up ancestors and things
like that because that wasactually my next bullet point
because the people that are onthese diets Yeah.
Are really into.
Saying just that, that this ishow our ancestors ate, this is
how we should eat.
And people on the other sidesometimes will say, Oh, your
(18:40):
ancestors didn't live as long,or something like that.
But that all that point is nullto me.
The point to me that reallymatters here, when we look at
ancestors or you know, other,there's still Hunter Gather
communities.
Now are tribes in parts of theworld, so we can look at those
(19:01):
people right now.
What is going on differentbetween us and them?
Our lives are wildly different.
Like there's no comparison.
You can't just look at.
eating and be like, Oh, wellthey eat this way.
And you know, they're doingreally well and we eat a
different way.
And that's the only difference.
Our lives are completelydifferent in literally every
(19:23):
way.
So they live a different life.
They are going out in likegetting their food.
They're gathering things,they're growing things
themselves.
They're foraging, they'reliterally active all day long.
We go to the grocery store, wedrive our car to the grocery
store.
Like that's not comparable inany way.
So that argument is just sosilly to me, except like,
(19:47):
literally there's nothing thesame about us other than like,
we're humans.
But our lives are completelydifferent and eating is a small
part of that.
But we can't just like sub out,Oh, we're gonna eat like them,
so everything's gonna be exactlythe.
Emily (20:04):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
It's reminded me of like, It'sreminding of politics like
majorly, like when people lookat the Constitution and they're
like, Oh my God, well it's gottabe exactly the same as how it
was back then.
It's like, no homey things havechanged.
Like you can't just apply an oldset of rules and thinking to
like, what's going on right now?
And even if you spend like twohours in the gym, this kind of
(20:27):
diet, Is for like people who areactive, like NASA said all day
long, not just like a couplehours even.
Like that's, that's a long timeto spend exercising in a day.
But like even then it doesn't,it's not gonna even compare to
what it used to be.
And so that kind of old remarks,like with the paleo diet and
stuff like that, all of theseare just like fake bullshit.
(20:49):
They're not diets.
God, I just had a client.
Doctor was like, Do the paleodiet.
And it's like, what?
Like this isn't medical advice.
That's just like your own, Likeyou just pulled that from your
ass and was like, Oh yeah, Iheard about this.
It's like, huh.
It's so bizarre.
This is not respected in themedical community, at least not
the one that I'm in.
Vanessa (21:07):
Yeah, that's really frustrating to me sometimes with
medical providers is that theywill give ad some advice, not
based on their, you know,medical knowledge.
They will give it based on whatthey do.
So diet is a big one with that.
Breastfeeding is another big onethere.
Doctors, if they're, you know,male and they have a partner
(21:32):
that breastfed, they will say,Oh yeah, Breastfeeding's great.
And if they had a partner thatdid not breastfeed, they'll be
like, Oh, I don't know.
You don't have to breastfeed.
Here's some formula.
And it's literally just theirexperience.
Like they're not going off ofany knowledge there.
by the way, is easily accessibleto them.
(21:52):
Like even if that's notsomething that was part of their
formal training.
Hello, You are a doctor becauseyou know how to get to the
resources and you should also beupdating your knowledge
frequently.
Sorry, this is a little bit of atangent,
Emily (22:06):
or angry.
Vanessa (22:07):
but,
Emily (22:08):
There's there's, I, I was seeing this other thing, like
they, they say that like, andthis is exactly why I was like,
Oh, I'm suspicious.
This is some toxic masculinitything.
And it's like they're constantlytalking about weight loss with
it, and then they're alsotalking about higher
testosterone levels.
Like that's a whole, like, hugepiece of it.
So it's just really interesting.
And I also saw too, like, andthe doctor that kind of made
(22:31):
this diet Sean Baker, is thatthe same guy as the I.
Vanessa (22:36):
No,
Emily (22:37):
Different.
Okay.
So they must be like in a fightor something because they, they
both have like the same idea.
The book that he released was in2018 and it was just called The
Carnivore Diet.
And he actually has this onlinecommunity and like coaching
platform that promotes it andlike talks all about how like he
can reverse all this chronicdisease and like he's
(22:57):
revolutionizing healthcare.
And it's kind of like a wildsituation because as we know,
Putting everybody on the samediet is not gonna work.
And the most wild situation isthat his medical license was
actually revoked the year prior.
Vanessa (23:14):
Wow.
So that seems like, okay, don'tquote me on this.
I don't wanna get sued byanyone, but I'm pretty sure with
my guy, the Carnivore md, he.
Also a retired doctor most, andhe's not old.
So that doesn't happen veryoften.
(23:34):
They go to school for a longtime to retire when you're
pretty young.
So
Emily (23:40):
I'm sure this
Vanessa (23:41):
thing could have happened.
Emily (23:43):
Totally.
And I feel like there's probablya lot of like anti-vax overlap
with these people as well.
It's just, it's just feelingright, that like, they're just
so counter culture.
They like, you know, I thinkthat that could probably be
another reason too.
Why why we see an early retiredoctor or something like that.
I, I just see a lot of overlapin.
Vanessa (24:04):
and I think that there is a lot of things that, you
know, I, as I was watching somevideos and things like that
today as research for thispodcast.
I was thinking these are reallyeasy to get sucked into.
Like they take these littlepoints and they back it up with
(24:24):
science a lot because these aresmart people.
They know how to access data andthey know how to read data and
they know how to skew data.
Emily (24:34):
totally.
Vanessa (24:35):
So it's very, very convincing sometimes and
especially for someone who maybeisn't, you know, in the health
field or in a science field,it's much harder to interpret
that kind of stuff if you're nottrained to do so.
So they're very good at whatthey do and they can be very,
very convincing.
(24:56):
And there was a few studieswhere I was like, Oh man, like I
gotta look back at that.
We all know that, you know,going from one study is not good
science, but either way.
There was another thing I wantedto bring up.
Well, I'm gonna talk about rawmilk in a moment too, because
this is always something that'sbig with carnivore dieters.
(25:17):
But before we talk about that, Iwanted to, Cause this is kind of
related to the, like ancestral.
So the Carnivore md, he had areel that he was talking about
how heart disease was not aproblem before 1900, and it's
because we ate animal fats then.
And ever since we started eatingseed oils, that's
Emily (25:41):
Oh, here we go.
Here we go with the attack onthe seed oils.
People live for this
Vanessa (25:48):
Yes.
Yes.
Well, they don't yet, They don'teat seed oils.
You would only eat animal fat ifyou are a carnivore dieter.
it's wild to me again.
Okay, so if we, you know, goback in time, think of what life
might have been in the 19hundreds versus now, and how
(26:08):
many things have changed even.
down to like our toxin exposure.
There are so many things thatare different about our modern
lives, and I'm not saying it wasbetter or worse then, or it's
better or worse now.
But there's a ton ofdifferences.
So again, this is not like wecan't make these references and
(26:31):
being like, they didn't haveheart disease now, and it's
because we're eating seed oils.
That's the reason we have heartdisease today.
Emily (26:40):
The biggest thing too that I think is a good thing as
one of our listeners to realizeis like the whole correlation
does not equal causation.
And so just because this istrue, it's true.
Like we didn't have as manycases of this before and now we
do.
It's just everything is sovastly different and there's a
(27:00):
lot of research to explain why.
These types of illnesses haveevolved and there's no research
that can really support.
Okay.
It's just because we don't eatmeat anymore.
And like taking just one foodout, like that's the other red
flag that you kind of see like,Oh, they're just gonna
villainize this other food.
Like, no, no one food has thatbig of an impact on your health.
(27:21):
It's just, it's just not true.
Vanessa (27:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so let's talk about rawdairy products because this is
something that carnivore dieterswill promote often, and I think
a lot of people just don'treally understand what this is.
So raw milk or raw cheese issimply just cheese or milk that
is not pasteurized.
(27:44):
Most states it's illegal.
Oregon, I believe it's legal inthere's a.
Emily (27:50):
I'm
Vanessa (27:51):
And I don't, it, to me it's kind of silly that's, it's
illegal.
Like it makes it sound like it'slike a drug or something So
basically it's not pasteurized,which means when we pasteurize
foods, we warm them up really,really hot.
We kill any bacteria that mightbe in that food.
So we do the same thing withjuice.
So.
(28:11):
By eating the unpasteurizedproduct, you would just be at
higher risk for a foodborneillness.
Now can you eat raw cheese raw?
Un pasteurized juice withoutgetting sick.
Of course you can.
A lot of us do it all the timewith juice.
Obviously with those productstoo, you wanna make sure you're
getting a fresher version.
They're not gonna sit on theshelf as long.
(28:34):
They're going to spoil much morequickly.
They're going to accumulatebacteria much more quickly.
So to keep, you know, the massessafe, we've decided we wanna
pasteurize things which I thinkis generally good.
Emily (28:47):
Speaking as someone who literally got e coli from like
unpasteurized apple cider asVanessa did junior year.
Vanessa (28:55):
Yes, I did.
It was very violent too, ifyou're wondering.
So what the downside topasteurizing is when we do that,
we also kill off some nutrients.
So sometimes people like to eatthe raw product because it is
more nutrient dense.
So do I think eating rawproducts is terrible and you're
going to die of some foodborneillness?
(29:17):
Probably not, but you definitelywanna be careful.
Make sure you know where it'scoming from, and even if you do
know where it's coming from, Imean, you're still at higher
risk of getting some kind ofbacteria that's going to make
you sick.
But
Emily (29:28):
For sure,
Vanessa (29:29):
are you, is it possible that you eat.
Raw milk, ra cheese,unpasteurized juice for your
whole life and never get afoodborne illness.
Yeah, you definitely could.
Emily (29:39):
and there's other foods too.
There's other foods that haverisk of foodborne illness that
aren't like radically differentthan that, like salami or
romaine lettuce, and we don'tstop eating those foods.
I think it's just the fact thatlike we have the solution to the
raw milk drama and the issues,so everyone's kind of like,
Okay, well why wouldn't we doit?
(30:00):
But yes, it's definitely notlike, like the, the food
actually has to have.
Disease in it for it to occur.
I think we kind of forget that,where it's like it's not just
because you leave something outthat it's going to be like that.
It's just like if it had thisdisease in it, now it's able to
grow, but it might not have evenstarted off with that virus or
(30:20):
whatever is in it.
Vanessa (30:22):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's one of those thingswhere, like I said, like do I
think, Well, from a publichealth perspective, it's, it's
good that we pasteurize things.
Cause we just don't need to bedealing with all that.
We don't need to be putting anyextra stress on our medical
system or anything like that.
Emily (30:41):
You'd think you could like truly just let everyone
make their own decisions and,and have no sort of rules, but
that clearly it does not workwell.
So,
Vanessa (30:50):
I know it.
It's just like funny to me thatin so many states, like it's
illegal,
Emily (30:57):
The irony that, and you're like, it's like a drug,
but in Portland, well, in likeOregon and all, like
specifically the Portland area,like drugs are legal and like
wrong.
Like it's just funny because wejust let it all be a free for
all here kind of.
Vanessa (31:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's just my little note onon raw milk, raw cheese,
unpasteurized things.
Just cuz you will see that a lotwith carnivore dieters.
Also wanted to bring up theanimals versus human.
So like I said, there is asub-sector of the carnivore
dieters that are raw carnivoredieters.
(31:33):
So this means they are eatingraw meat, they are eating raw
eggs which I mean God's feed tothem.
And a lot of times theirargument will be, will animals.
Raw meat and So I wanna get intosomething really important here,
and it's that we are not thesame species And I think that's
(31:57):
really important to rememberfirst and foremost also think
about, would you go drink out ofa stream or a river outside your
house?
Probably not.
Now, would you let your dogdrink out of a stream or river
by your house?
Probably.
Is it going to, Has your dogever done that and, you know,
(32:20):
gotten violently Ill?
Probably not.
If you did the same thing, wouldyou get violently Ill probably.
So there is differences.
So animals have much strongerstomach acids that kills
bacteria.
And so they tend to be a littlehardier than us.
Our stomach acid just isn'tquite as strong, so it's not
(32:43):
gonna kill that same bacteria.
So that's why when they eat it,they're completely fine because
they have evolved to be able toeat raw things.
And we have not.
So there you go.
We can't eat raw, raw foods andanimals can, I'm sorry, Maybe
you'll reincarnate into anotherin another life and be a dog and
(33:04):
then you can eat something raw.
Emily (33:07):
And even dogs, I feel like, I mean, they're like going
back like in the, in the fieldof like evolution, Like I feel
like at the.
Point, like I don't know if mydogs could do that and survive
because I feel like they're justso used to like eating their
like little homemade vegan foodthat I feel like they're like
softening as they kind of likebecome domesticated, like in our
(33:29):
lives.
But it just goes to show likethings might change.
Like Otis eats like a chickenwing on the sidewalk.
Stop.
Like you're supposed to bevegan, notice And he, and it's
like he'll be sick because he'slike not used to it.
You know?
It's like just the same thing.
Like all it took was, you know,like a year of living with me.
So it's like you think you'rethe same as an ancestral human
(33:49):
being, you're not.
Vanessa (33:51):
It's so funny, like the differences between like city
dogs versus country dogs likeBrunos out here, literally like
gnawing on like a dead deer inthe backyard.
Emily (34:01):
God, it is so disgusting.
Vanessa (34:04):
It really is disgusting, but it's happening.
Emily (34:08):
they could not do they.
They would not.
Vanessa (34:11):
Yeah, so bottom line don't, don't eat raw meat,
please.
You know, you could get awaywith a raw egg, but it still
might make you sick.
And why?
I mean, I don't know.
God.
Speed again to you with that.
Definitely don't eat raw porkthough.
If you if you're looking to stayalive and well, do not eat raw
(34:35):
pork.
Emily (34:37):
Definitely, that's a really good guideline for just
Vanessa (34:40):
if you, if you don't take anything else away from
this podcast today, just don'teat rock work and that's all
you, all you really need toknow.
Last point I wanted to bring upabout my carnivore MD Buddy is
so he has a reel on hisInstagram where he's in a
grocery store.
He's often doing reels ingrocery stores.
(35:02):
Pointing out, you know,different things on the shelves
and talking about how terriblethey are.
And he does one with candy.
And I thought this was timelycause we obviously just did our
Halloween candy episode.
He's holding up a bag of candyand he's going, This is all kids
eat.
Kids just eat candy all thetime.
(35:23):
And this is like legal drugs.
This should be illegal.
Emily (35:29):
Oh my God.
This is like really reminding methat we also need to do an
episode on dyes and food andcolorings and all that because
that's another like hugeargument that people love to
talk about with like the kidfood.
Vanessa (35:42):
Yeah, but Yeah, I,
Emily (35:46):
really bad.
Vanessa (35:47):
yeah.
I have so many words to sayabout the dyes also, but Yes, it
was very like jarring and justwhy are you trying to, Okay,
first of all, that's not true.
Like who are all these kids thatare only just main lining candy?
Emily (36:02):
Yeah.
Vanessa (36:04):
I mean, I, I, I, Maybe they're out there.
I think that most parents arenot giving their kids candy for
breakfast, lunch, dinner, butmaybe they are.
And then two, to be like, Thisshould be illegal.
These are legal drugs.
Like, Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Emily (36:22):
know that guys like doped through his like D three college
football experience and shitlike that too.
Like these people are, He waslike in a frat, I just, it's
just annoying to see like thevilifying of foods like that,
especially when it's like sohypocritical and I know I'm just
like making a guess, but it'slike a well educated guess based
(36:44):
on personal experience.
So now you can listen to thatlittle piece of advice from me.
I'll use my personal experienceon that one.
Vanessa (36:52):
I feel like Emily's like experiencing real trauma as
we record this right now.
Like she's really lookingnervous.
She's kind of like fidgeting alot with everything that I bring
up.
She's like, Oh my gosh, I haveso much work to do.
Emily (37:06):
No.
Genuinely like that's anaccurate assessment.
Vanessa (37:10):
But in summary hopefully you kind of got the
highlights of the car carnivorediet.
And as you probably would'veimagined, it's not going to be
our favorite cuz no diet isespecially one that's this
restrictive.
And I hope that if.
You know, something that youwere thinking about or that
you're currently doing that youkind of take these words into
(37:30):
consideration.
Think about what you're missingout on.
That's the biggest thing.
Yes, you're eating liver, supernutrient dense, but why aren't
you eating kale?
Kale has different stuff thanthe liver, and I'm just using
kale as an example.
It could be any food.
But you're missing out on.
Emily (37:50):
Totally, and it's just not worth it.
Like the purported benefits arenot studied.
They're not verified.
And even if they were, you'restill gonna have some side
effects that are not a goodthing.
Like James Blunt, who gotscurvy.
Vanessa (38:05):
Yeah, very sad and remem remembering that we are
all genetically different aswell, so different diets are
going to affect us alldifferently, and that's why
nutrition is so individual.
Emily (38:18):
a hundred percent.
Vanessa (38:20):
All right.
So I think that about wraps usup about the Carnivore diet.
If you do have any suggestionsfor podcasts that you want us to
record, please let us know.
We love doing listener requests.
Emily (38:33):
Yes, please tell us all of your suggestions.
And I think that anothersuggestion we got was Medical
medium semi-recently, eventhough we already did a celery
juice episode.
I feel like we definitely couldgo on for a while about the
other aspects of him, and he'sstill ragingly popular, so.
Vanessa (38:50):
Well that's crazy.
Well, we'll dive deeper intothat.
Until then, we'll see you nexttime.
Welcome to wellness.
Miss the podcast where we take ahard look at the nutrition and
wellness industry through a nobullshit lens.
My name is, and I'm ananti-intuitive eating ed diet
and yoga.
Vanessa (00:13):
And my name's Vanessa.
I am also a registered dieticianand I specialize in hormone.
Emily.
And I met back in college whenwe were studying to be
dieticians and we basicallynever left each other's side.
Since the moment we met and postgrad, we haven't really left
each other's side either we liveacross the country from each
(00:33):
other, but that hasn't stoppedus from being business partners
and talking almost every minuteof every day.
Emily (00:41):
This is all very true.
And Vanessa and I decided thatwe wanted share some of these
conversations with everyone.
So with that, let's get intothis week's
Vanessa (01:02):
Welcome to Wellness Myths.
So this week we are talkingabout the carnivore diet.
Emily (01:08):
This one is going to just absolutely send me, and I have
to say that I didn't really doany research about this one.
So it's gonna be all of Vanessathis week, and you can just hear
my live reactions, which I thinkwill still be like a pretty fair
contribution honestly.
Vanessa (01:21):
Yeah, I think Emily will have a lot to say about
this.
So, Actually, this was alistener request, so shout out
to Bailey.
She popped into our dms and waslike, Hey, you guys should be
doing an episode about thecarnivore diet, because I've
been seeing it all over myInstagram lately, and I'm so
glad she did because I've beenseeing it around a ton too.
(01:42):
So I'm pretty excited to do thisone.
I brought this up with anotherdietician recently and.
So there's also a subsection ofthe carnivore dieters that are
raw carnivore dieters whichwe're not really gonna talk
about today cause that would belike a whole podcast in and of
itself.
But that pod Raw Raw, yeah, rawcarnivore.
(02:06):
And that that dietician wentwell.
I hope those people go just eatsome raw pork and that'll finish
'em off cause.
Because like raw or undercookedpart pork, you can get trico
from, which is not necessarilyfatal, but it can be fatal in
serious cases.
(02:26):
So it's definitely like one ofthose meats that like, you don't
want to eat pork that's pink orthat's bleeding, like in the
same way that you would maybeeat a steak like that and it
would be okay.
So it just cracked me up thatshe said that because I was
like, Oh my gosh.
And then she was like, Oh, wow.
I probably shouldn't have saidthat.
I was like, No, you're, It's theright audience.
Emily (02:48):
The only people or, well, let's say like beings that are
eating raw meat that I knowabout like right now, are cats.
Like, some cats eat like a rawmeat diet, don't they?
Vanessa (03:00):
Or dogs?
Yeah, I mean, any.
Really.
But that's much different.
And I actually made a note aboutthat to talk about at some
point, cuz some people willargue that like, why can dogs
eat rammy?
And we can't, We'll talk aboutthat in a little bit.
I mean, why are we even askingthose kinds of questions?
It's so ridiculous.
But I'll answer it anyway.
(03:21):
I also actually kind of offtopic, but I wanted to mention
this on.
So I actually, I, I went into mydms today on Instagram and I had
a request, like someone wasrequesting to send me a dm and I
went in and it was like a localHerbal Life distributor that was
sending me a coupon.
Emily (03:42):
No.
Vanessa (03:44):
I was like, Oh my gosh.
Obviously they don't listen tothe podcast because they
definitely would not be sendingme that coupon.
If they did, or maybe likethey're trying to convert me
over, I'm not really sure, butit cracked me up.
I was like, I'm not youraudience.
Emily (03:59):
Oh my God, that's definitely staying in the
request for sure.
Vanessa (04:02):
Yes, Yes it is.
Emily (04:04):
Yikes.
Vanessa (04:05):
Okay, so let's dive into the carnivore diet.
So what is the carnivore diet?
It's basically exactly what itsounds like.
So people who are participatingin this diet are only eating
meat or animal products forevery meal.
So hardcore carnivore, dieters.
Literally no fruits, no veggies,no grains, no legumes, no nuts,
(04:28):
no seeds, nothing that doesn'tcome from an animal.
It is animal products only.
It's Emily's face right now isso funny because she is
obviously a vegan.
So this is literally theopposite of the
Emily (04:43):
Literally the opposite.
Truly the opposite.
I'm just so confused.
Like I just, I feel like it'ssuper interesting because it
just reminds, it's just likeanother high protein diet.
Like at the end of the day, I'm,I'm really curious to hear more.
Vanessa (04:59):
It's very high protein and it's also very low carb.
So obviously dairy productsyou're gonna get some carbs from
but virtually everything elseyou're not.
So it's, it's very, very lowcarb.
And so, With it being low carbpeople will start to feel really
(05:20):
good.
And we talked about this alittle bit last night actually
in our group coaching sessionabout how we have this, you
know, if you immediately cutcarbs out of your diet, you
might feel.
really good for a minute, andthat's because you're not
experiencing those same kind ofblood sugar spikes that you may
have before.
Does that mean that's good foryou?
(05:41):
Or sustainable?
Absolutely not.
But it is not, We are not sayingthat you might not feel good at
first in doing something like.
We're not promoting it at all,but yeah, it's very, you know,
we can expect that you mightfeel really good at first if
you're avoiding a blood sugar.
Emily (06:01):
Especially if like, you know, you've really, you really
feel like this is the right movefor you and you feel excited
when you first begin a diet.
And I think that placebo effectcan be really real.
But like Vanessa said, there's.
So many dangers to not havingcarbs, even though you might
feel like that short termbenefit of being off of the
rollercoaster.
I, like I said, I did not reallydo any research, but the one
(06:22):
thing that I did see that poppedup was James Blunt, like the
singer he developed scurvy,which is a vitamin C deficiency
after attempting the carnivorediet.
Vanessa (06:34):
Oh my gosh.
Emily (06:36):
Yeah.
And you wanna know whose crazyass made this a thing?
Do you know
Vanessa (06:43):
No,
Emily (06:44):
Joe Rogan?
Of course.
Which wouldn't it just be thebest to do an episode on him?
Like, Oh my God, that would beso good.
We have to do that too.
We could do episodes on specificJoe Rogan, like Joe Rogan React
podcast.
That's like what we couldprovide.
Vanessa (07:01):
like just a podcast about staying in your lane.
Like just stay in your goddamnlane.
Emily (07:07):
What is his lane though?
Honestly, I don't even know, buthe did.
Last January, Joe Rogan waslike, Okay, it's World Carni War
Month and he ate only me and frlike he decided, you know what?
I saw what shit happened toJames Blunt and I was like, I'm
gonna put some oranges in here.
But, but he also did it.
And I think that, I'm surethat's probably why you see it
(07:28):
more often.
Vanessa (07:30):
Yes, And you will see some people that are on a
carnivore diet that will alsoeat fruit.
I'm gonna talk about aninfluencer specifically because
it's someone that always pops upon my stuff and I'm really not
sure why.
Like, I don't follow them, buttheir content always gets to me
somehow.
But yes, some carnivore dieterswill eat fruit fruit and honey.
(07:53):
But other than that, no veggiesor anything like that.
So what is the problem withdoing this Okay, so if you're
only eating animal products,obviously you're missing a lot
of nutrients, right?
And a big one of those would befiber.
So these people, I don't knowhow they're going to the
bathroom.
Emily (08:13):
the constipation must be so real like
Vanessa (08:16):
I mean, they claim that it's all fine, but I just don't
know how that would be possible.
The other claim is that they'renot eating veggies because they
are resisting digestion andthey're saying that that's bad.
When really we think that's agood thing.
When things resist digestion,that's what allows to, you know,
(08:38):
feed our gut bacteria and bulkup our stools.
So we like those things thatresist digestion.
Fiber is something that resistsdigestion, and that's why we
love it so much.
So it's really interestingbecause they're like, Why would
you eat something that resistsdigestion that doesn't wanna be
eaten as if a, a cow does wantto be eaten?
Emily (08:59):
I was literally like right to have my vegan line
there like so quickly, but youbeat me to it.
Vanessa (09:05):
So obviously we're concerned just about, you know,
cutting out food groups.
And anytime we're, you know,restricting that much, we're
gonna have deficiencies,potentially scurvy, I mean,
that's really a perfect exampleof something that could easily
happen on a diet like this.
Something else that we'reconcerned about when we're
eating animal products only.
(09:26):
You're probably eating a lot, alot of saturated fat.
And while that's something thatyou know, unless you're keto or
one of these other crazy diets,I wouldn't be too, too concerned
about.
But if you're eating like fatonly kind of a problem and
that's gonna put you atincreased risk for heart
disease.
Emily (09:46):
And there's a lot of research about the consumption
of me and specifically red meand certain types of cancer,
like, you know, gastric cancer,stomach cancer, all those
things.
I think it's like, Any studythat kind of demonizes, like one
specific food is sort of aproblem and people might be
like, Wow, she's vegan.
She's gonna say that.
Like, yeah, because it's, it'sjust kind of silly to me.
(10:08):
Like I don't really understand.
There's so many differentlifestyle factors.
Like if you eat processed meatall the time, where it's like
when we talk about gluten-freediets, like, and they're like,
Oh, people who like have anelectively chosen gluten-free
diet.
They're not celiac or anything,their health is better.
And it's like, well, yeah,because they have the resources
to restrict certain food groupsand to, you know, Have control
(10:28):
over their diets, whereas peoplewho are eating processed meat at
every single meal sometimesaren't, right?
Like fast food is the onlyoption.
Or you know, food from a foodpantry is the only option.
And so I think we just have tobe really careful when we look
at research like that and think,Okay, you know what really is
like all the underlying extracharacteristics.
But that being said, You knowwhen we see this sort of
(10:49):
research, it's like if you havemeat at every single meal for
your protein, then you'remissing out on a lot of other
nutrients and also fiber like inthe long term as well.
So it might even be about likewhat you're missing out on,
which having such a restrictivediet, or even having a diet
that's like mostly made up ofanimal products can have that
result.
Vanessa (11:10):
Yeah, I think that you said that in the perfect way.
My biggest concern is whatyou're missing out on.
And that gets me into, so thisinfluencer, he's called the
Carnivore MD on Instagram.
I was looking at some of hiscontent and he was going through
all of these different thingsand being like, These are the
(11:31):
real super foods, which we don'treally subscribe to Super foods,
but Okay, let's, let's go aheadand say, you know, let's pretend
that we do for a minute.
So he's saying that liver is asuper food, and if I'm going to
subscribe to super foods, Iagree.
Like liver is something that'ssuper nutrient dense.
(11:52):
It has super bioavailablenutrients.
But the problem is most peopledon't want to eat liver every
day or at all.
Emily (12:02):
Correct that that would be correct.
It's also interesting too, likeyou don't think about like it's
really nutrient and densebecause like that's where the
nutrients are stored like in, ina body and so Yeah, totally.
I don't really see people likeloving that food as much as they
love like goji berries orsomething that's like the other
super food I always think of.
Vanessa (12:19):
yeah.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
It's like, yes, you might beeating some foods that are good
for your health, but why are youresisting all of these other
foods?
Because those are just part ofthe picture.
Yes, you're getting lots ofnutrients from that, but you're
(12:40):
not eating kale.
This guy in particular alwayswears a kale is bullshit
T-shirt.
he, cuz he
Emily (12:47):
Oh, what
Vanessa (12:49):
Yeah, he doesn't eat vegetables.
so he always is wearing this.
Kale is, But he sells them too,so he's got swag.
And so it's like, yeah, liveris, Kale has a lot of nutrients
too.
So why are you picking andchoosing so hard?
Like which nutrients you likethe most?
Emily (13:10):
Yeah, I think it's just because that doesn't sell, it
just doesn't sell merch.
But I, so like they need themerch.
Like that's, that's likeultimately what the.
Issue is, I was also readingthis other thing saying that,
you know, at these high amountsof protein, that even that can
be potentially, Too much stresson your kidneys.
(13:31):
And this is like another op,another thing that like, we
don't really like, we don'treally need to talk about this
very often because of the factthat like not most people aren't
just like mainlining onlyprotein, but you know, it's just
another one of those thingswhere it's like, oh my gosh.
Like who knows if they're likeat risk for this or not, and
like, you know, this Carnivoremd, whatever his name is, it's
(13:52):
like he's.
Pumping out this informationwithout like any of the
disclaimers.
I even was talking to a friendabout celery juice and she was
like, Oh no.
Like, are you gonna take thataway from me?
Like what?
Like what's the deal with that?
Like, asking my opinion and Iwas telling.
This person that like, you know,if you're on warfare and or
Coumadin, like any of theseblood thinning drugs that you
(14:13):
shouldn't be like having thishuge intake of vitamin cancer.
She's like, Oh my God, my mom'son that.
Like, I could have easily justlike given my mom a bunch of
celery juice because the medicalmedium told me to without like
any other knowledge.
So it's like classic with all ofthese diets, but there's just no
individualized thought at all,as
Vanessa (14:30):
and, and besides all of that too, so like for this
person, with everyone, I thinkthat's on a carnivore diet,
pretty much every video of themis like shirtless or like
smallest amount of clothing aspossible.
They want you to see like theirripped abs and like how good
they look and they're also, andthey feel like they're thriving,
(14:51):
right.
And I'm sure.
Well, some of them might notactually be up, but I'm sure
some of them like do feel reallygreat and are doing great, but
they're promoting this toeveryone.
and we have to remember that weall have different genetics too.
So for someone that doesn't haveany heart disease or issues with
(15:11):
cholesterol or anything likethat in their family, maybe they
can eat quite a bit of saturatedfat and be fine.
Where someone else who, youknow, has heart disease in their
family and maybe has an LDLthat's your bad cholesterol
that's already a little bit highor borderline.
And that diet's gonna send themright over the edge and, you
(15:34):
know, put them more at risk forheart disease.
So that's a big factor in thistoo, is remembering that we are
not all the same.
And that just happens from beingborn and having genetics So you
can't eat the same as someoneelse and think that I'm going to
thrive too.
And especially with somethingreally extreme like.
Emily (15:57):
A hundred percent.
It just, it really doesn't makesense.
And I think that like, you know,the things that we're talking
about too, it's like even, likea lot of these risks would be
happening, like even if you justmade meat, like the main
component of your diet, youknow?
So like, it's not even like,like you don't even have to be
following the carnivore diet,like, So strictly to be getting
some of these negative results.
(16:18):
So that's also like anotherthing to me, it's almost like
the opposite of keto where likesince you're not really
following keto that strictly,like you don't really have like
any of, you're not actually inketosis, Like basically nobody
is.
Because like nobody eats likethe truly tiny amount of that
you need to be in ketosis.
But, With this one, it's likethe wrists are still really
(16:40):
much, so much there when you'rejust having like more meat than
any other food in your diet.
And I think there's this reallylike wild, pervasive thing
lately that's like, I think it'ssort of like the.
anti vegan movement of like, Oh,like, you know, you're living
off the land.
You're meant to like eat thesefoods and coexist with these
animals and whatever.
(17:01):
And everyone's gonna have adifferent value system that they
live by.
But I think it's just reallyimportant to remember that like
the.
Plant-based diets in general arealso like their own culture and
their own like huge piece ofdiet culture and like I think
everybody knows, like I don'tfollow that like for health
reasons or diets reasons.
And that's why I like, I don'tjust sit there preaching only
(17:23):
plant-based nutrition all thetime, but.
and there, I think there'splenty of reasons to not eat
those foods that have nothing todo with the nutrition of them,
but like it really gets verytangled up.
And so I think that likewhenever we see a big surge and
a trend in plant-based products,which a lot of times makes me
happy and it's nice and it's,it's makes my life easier.
It's kind of like, oh shit.
(17:43):
Like it's gonna just kind of gothe other way.
The pendulum's gonna swing theother way.
And then people are like, Oh myGod, you're eating no animal
products.
Well, I'm going to eat all theanimal products.
And it's like, okay, it's just.
So, so messy.
And, but I just, I see how we'vegotten to this point.
I also see how people are like,this is what makes me strong and
this is like, you know, it'slike toxic masculinity in a
(18:06):
diet, sort of.
I just kinda have a hard ideathat hard time thinking that
like there's mostly femaleidentifying people on this diet.
Like, I'm sorry, it's, it's aman
Vanessa (18:17):
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
But that I'm, I'm glad that youbrought up ancestors and things
like that because that wasactually my next bullet point
because the people that are onthese diets Yeah.
Are really into.
Saying just that, that this ishow our ancestors ate, this is
how we should eat.
And people on the other sidesometimes will say, Oh, your
(18:40):
ancestors didn't live as long,or something like that.
But that all that point is nullto me.
The point to me that reallymatters here, when we look at
ancestors or you know, other,there's still Hunter Gather
communities.
Now are tribes in parts of theworld, so we can look at those
(19:01):
people right now.
What is going on differentbetween us and them?
Our lives are wildly different.
Like there's no comparison.
You can't just look at.
eating and be like, Oh, wellthey eat this way.
And you know, they're doingreally well and we eat a
different way.
And that's the only difference.
Our lives are completelydifferent in literally every
(19:23):
way.
So they live a different life.
They are going out in likegetting their food.
They're gathering things,they're growing things
themselves.
They're foraging, they'reliterally active all day long.
We go to the grocery store, wedrive our car to the grocery
store.
Like that's not comparable inany way.
So that argument is just sosilly to me, except like,
(19:47):
literally there's nothing thesame about us other than like,
we're humans.
But our lives are completelydifferent and eating is a small
part of that.
But we can't just like sub out,Oh, we're gonna eat like them,
so everything's gonna be exactlythe.
Emily (20:04):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
It's reminded me of like, It'sreminding of politics like
majorly, like when people lookat the Constitution and they're
like, Oh my God, well it's gottabe exactly the same as how it
was back then.
It's like, no homey things havechanged.
Like you can't just apply an oldset of rules and thinking to
like, what's going on right now?
And even if you spend like twohours in the gym, this kind of
(20:27):
diet, Is for like people who areactive, like NASA said all day
long, not just like a couplehours even.
Like that's, that's a long timeto spend exercising in a day.
But like even then it doesn't,it's not gonna even compare to
what it used to be.
And so that kind of old remarks,like with the paleo diet and
stuff like that, all of theseare just like fake bullshit.
(20:49):
They're not diets.
God, I just had a client.
Doctor was like, Do the paleodiet.
And it's like, what?
Like this isn't medical advice.
That's just like your own, Likeyou just pulled that from your
ass and was like, Oh yeah, Iheard about this.
It's like, huh.
It's so bizarre.
This is not respected in themedical community, at least not
the one that I'm in.
Vanessa (21:07):
Yeah, that's really frustrating to me sometimes with
medical providers is that theywill give ad some advice, not
based on their, you know,medical knowledge.
They will give it based on whatthey do.
So diet is a big one with that.
Breastfeeding is another big onethere.
Doctors, if they're, you know,male and they have a partner
(21:32):
that breastfed, they will say,Oh yeah, Breastfeeding's great.
And if they had a partner thatdid not breastfeed, they'll be
like, Oh, I don't know.
You don't have to breastfeed.
Here's some formula.
And it's literally just theirexperience.
Like they're not going off ofany knowledge there.
by the way, is easily accessibleto them.
(21:52):
Like even if that's notsomething that was part of their
formal training.
Hello, You are a doctor becauseyou know how to get to the
resources and you should also beupdating your knowledge
frequently.
Sorry, this is a little bit of atangent,
Emily (22:06):
or angry.
Vanessa (22:07):
but,
Emily (22:08):
There's there's, I, I was seeing this other thing, like
they, they say that like, andthis is exactly why I was like,
Oh, I'm suspicious.
This is some toxic masculinitything.
And it's like they're constantlytalking about weight loss with
it, and then they're alsotalking about higher
testosterone levels.
Like that's a whole, like, hugepiece of it.
So it's just really interesting.
And I also saw too, like, andthe doctor that kind of made
(22:31):
this diet Sean Baker, is thatthe same guy as the I.
Vanessa (22:36):
No,
Emily (22:37):
Different.
Okay.
So they must be like in a fightor something because they, they
both have like the same idea.
The book that he released was in2018 and it was just called The
Carnivore Diet.
And he actually has this onlinecommunity and like coaching
platform that promotes it andlike talks all about how like he
can reverse all this chronicdisease and like he's
(22:57):
revolutionizing healthcare.
And it's kind of like a wildsituation because as we know,
Putting everybody on the samediet is not gonna work.
And the most wild situation isthat his medical license was
actually revoked the year prior.
Vanessa (23:14):
Wow.
So that seems like, okay, don'tquote me on this.
I don't wanna get sued byanyone, but I'm pretty sure with
my guy, the Carnivore md, he.
Also a retired doctor most, andhe's not old.
So that doesn't happen veryoften.
(23:34):
They go to school for a longtime to retire when you're
pretty young.
So
Emily (23:40):
I'm sure this
Vanessa (23:41):
thing could have happened.
Emily (23:43):
Totally.
And I feel like there's probablya lot of like anti-vax overlap
with these people as well.
It's just, it's just feelingright, that like, they're just
so counter culture.
They like, you know, I thinkthat that could probably be
another reason too.
Why why we see an early retiredoctor or something like that.
I, I just see a lot of overlapin.
Vanessa (24:04):
and I think that there is a lot of things that, you
know, I, as I was watching somevideos and things like that
today as research for thispodcast.
I was thinking these are reallyeasy to get sucked into.
Like they take these littlepoints and they back it up with
(24:24):
science a lot because these aresmart people.
They know how to access data andthey know how to read data and
they know how to skew data.
Emily (24:34):
totally.
Vanessa (24:35):
So it's very, very convincing sometimes and
especially for someone who maybeisn't, you know, in the health
field or in a science field,it's much harder to interpret
that kind of stuff if you're nottrained to do so.
So they're very good at whatthey do and they can be very,
very convincing.
(24:56):
And there was a few studieswhere I was like, Oh man, like I
gotta look back at that.
We all know that, you know,going from one study is not good
science, but either way.
There was another thing I wantedto bring up.
Well, I'm gonna talk about rawmilk in a moment too, because
this is always something that'sbig with carnivore dieters.
(25:17):
But before we talk about that, Iwanted to, Cause this is kind of
related to the, like ancestral.
So the Carnivore md, he had areel that he was talking about
how heart disease was not aproblem before 1900, and it's
because we ate animal fats then.
And ever since we started eatingseed oils, that's
Emily (25:41):
Oh, here we go.
Here we go with the attack onthe seed oils.
People live for this
Vanessa (25:48):
Yes.
Yes.
Well, they don't yet, They don'teat seed oils.
You would only eat animal fat ifyou are a carnivore dieter.
it's wild to me again.
Okay, so if we, you know, goback in time, think of what life
might have been in the 19hundreds versus now, and how
(26:08):
many things have changed even.
down to like our toxin exposure.
There are so many things thatare different about our modern
lives, and I'm not saying it wasbetter or worse then, or it's
better or worse now.
But there's a ton ofdifferences.
So again, this is not like wecan't make these references and
(26:31):
being like, they didn't haveheart disease now, and it's
because we're eating seed oils.
That's the reason we have heartdisease today.
Emily (26:40):
The biggest thing too that I think is a good thing as
one of our listeners to realizeis like the whole correlation
does not equal causation.
And so just because this istrue, it's true.
Like we didn't have as manycases of this before and now we
do.
It's just everything is sovastly different and there's a
(27:00):
lot of research to explain why.
These types of illnesses haveevolved and there's no research
that can really support.
Okay.
It's just because we don't eatmeat anymore.
And like taking just one foodout, like that's the other red
flag that you kind of see like,Oh, they're just gonna
villainize this other food.
Like, no, no one food has thatbig of an impact on your health.
(27:21):
It's just, it's just not true.
Vanessa (27:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so let's talk about rawdairy products because this is
something that carnivore dieterswill promote often, and I think
a lot of people just don'treally understand what this is.
So raw milk or raw cheese issimply just cheese or milk that
is not pasteurized.
(27:44):
Most states it's illegal.
Oregon, I believe it's legal inthere's a.
Emily (27:50):
I'm
Vanessa (27:51):
And I don't, it, to me it's kind of silly that's, it's
illegal.
Like it makes it sound like it'slike a drug or something So
basically it's not pasteurized,which means when we pasteurize
foods, we warm them up really,really hot.
We kill any bacteria that mightbe in that food.
So we do the same thing withjuice.
So.
(28:11):
By eating the unpasteurizedproduct, you would just be at
higher risk for a foodborneillness.
Now can you eat raw cheese raw?
Un pasteurized juice withoutgetting sick.
Of course you can.
A lot of us do it all the timewith juice.
Obviously with those productstoo, you wanna make sure you're
getting a fresher version.
They're not gonna sit on theshelf as long.
(28:34):
They're going to spoil much morequickly.
They're going to accumulatebacteria much more quickly.
So to keep, you know, the massessafe, we've decided we wanna
pasteurize things which I thinkis generally good.
Emily (28:47):
Speaking as someone who literally got e coli from like
unpasteurized apple cider asVanessa did junior year.
Vanessa (28:55):
Yes, I did.
It was very violent too, ifyou're wondering.
So what the downside topasteurizing is when we do that,
we also kill off some nutrients.
So sometimes people like to eatthe raw product because it is
more nutrient dense.
So do I think eating rawproducts is terrible and you're
going to die of some foodborneillness?
(29:17):
Probably not, but you definitelywanna be careful.
Make sure you know where it'scoming from, and even if you do
know where it's coming from, Imean, you're still at higher
risk of getting some kind ofbacteria that's going to make
you sick.
But
Emily (29:28):
For sure,
Vanessa (29:29):
are you, is it possible that you eat.
Raw milk, ra cheese,unpasteurized juice for your
whole life and never get afoodborne illness.
Yeah, you definitely could.
Emily (29:39):
and there's other foods too.
There's other foods that haverisk of foodborne illness that
aren't like radically differentthan that, like salami or
romaine lettuce, and we don'tstop eating those foods.
I think it's just the fact thatlike we have the solution to the
raw milk drama and the issues,so everyone's kind of like,
Okay, well why wouldn't we doit?
(30:00):
But yes, it's definitely notlike, like the, the food
actually has to have.
Disease in it for it to occur.
I think we kind of forget that,where it's like it's not just
because you leave something outthat it's going to be like that.
It's just like if it had thisdisease in it, now it's able to
grow, but it might not have evenstarted off with that virus or
(30:20):
whatever is in it.
Vanessa (30:22):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's one of those thingswhere, like I said, like do I
think, Well, from a publichealth perspective, it's, it's
good that we pasteurize things.
Cause we just don't need to bedealing with all that.
We don't need to be putting anyextra stress on our medical
system or anything like that.
Emily (30:41):
You'd think you could like truly just let everyone
make their own decisions and,and have no sort of rules, but
that clearly it does not workwell.
So,
Vanessa (30:50):
I know it.
It's just like funny to me thatin so many states, like it's
illegal,
Emily (30:57):
The irony that, and you're like, it's like a drug,
but in Portland, well, in likeOregon and all, like
specifically the Portland area,like drugs are legal and like
wrong.
Like it's just funny because wejust let it all be a free for
all here kind of.
Vanessa (31:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's just my little note onon raw milk, raw cheese,
unpasteurized things.
Just cuz you will see that a lotwith carnivore dieters.
Also wanted to bring up theanimals versus human.
So like I said, there is asub-sector of the carnivore
dieters that are raw carnivoredieters.
(31:33):
So this means they are eatingraw meat, they are eating raw
eggs which I mean God's feed tothem.
And a lot of times theirargument will be, will animals.
Raw meat and So I wanna get intosomething really important here,
and it's that we are not thesame species And I think that's
(31:57):
really important to rememberfirst and foremost also think
about, would you go drink out ofa stream or a river outside your
house?
Probably not.
Now, would you let your dogdrink out of a stream or river
by your house?
Probably.
Is it going to, Has your dogever done that and, you know,
(32:20):
gotten violently Ill?
Probably not.
If you did the same thing, wouldyou get violently Ill probably.
So there is differences.
So animals have much strongerstomach acids that kills
bacteria.
And so they tend to be a littlehardier than us.
Our stomach acid just isn'tquite as strong, so it's not
(32:43):
gonna kill that same bacteria.
So that's why when they eat it,they're completely fine because
they have evolved to be able toeat raw things.
And we have not.
So there you go.
We can't eat raw, raw foods andanimals can, I'm sorry, Maybe
you'll reincarnate into anotherin another life and be a dog and
(33:04):
then you can eat something raw.
Emily (33:07):
And even dogs, I feel like, I mean, they're like going
back like in the, in the fieldof like evolution, Like I feel
like at the.
Point, like I don't know if mydogs could do that and survive
because I feel like they're justso used to like eating their
like little homemade vegan foodthat I feel like they're like
softening as they kind of likebecome domesticated, like in our
(33:29):
lives.
But it just goes to show likethings might change.
Like Otis eats like a chickenwing on the sidewalk.
Stop.
Like you're supposed to bevegan, notice And he, and it's
like he'll be sick because he'slike not used to it.
You know?
It's like just the same thing.
Like all it took was, you know,like a year of living with me.
So it's like you think you'rethe same as an ancestral human
(33:49):
being, you're not.
Vanessa (33:51):
It's so funny, like the differences between like city
dogs versus country dogs likeBrunos out here, literally like
gnawing on like a dead deer inthe backyard.
Emily (34:01):
God, it is so disgusting.
Vanessa (34:04):
It really is disgusting, but it's happening.
Emily (34:08):
they could not do they.
They would not.
Vanessa (34:11):
Yeah, so bottom line don't, don't eat raw meat,
please.
You know, you could get awaywith a raw egg, but it still
might make you sick.
And why?
I mean, I don't know.
God.
Speed again to you with that.
Definitely don't eat raw porkthough.
If you if you're looking to stayalive and well, do not eat raw
(34:35):
pork.
Emily (34:37):
Definitely, that's a really good guideline for just
Vanessa (34:40):
if you, if you don't take anything else away from
this podcast today, just don'teat rock work and that's all
you, all you really need toknow.
Last point I wanted to bring upabout my carnivore MD Buddy is
so he has a reel on hisInstagram where he's in a
grocery store.
He's often doing reels ingrocery stores.
(35:02):
Pointing out, you know,different things on the shelves
and talking about how terriblethey are.
And he does one with candy.
And I thought this was timelycause we obviously just did our
Halloween candy episode.
He's holding up a bag of candyand he's going, This is all kids
eat.
Kids just eat candy all thetime.
(35:23):
And this is like legal drugs.
This should be illegal.
Emily (35:29):
Oh my God.
This is like really reminding methat we also need to do an
episode on dyes and food andcolorings and all that because
that's another like hugeargument that people love to
talk about with like the kidfood.
Vanessa (35:42):
Yeah, but Yeah, I,
Emily (35:46):
really bad.
Vanessa (35:47):
yeah.
I have so many words to sayabout the dyes also, but Yes, it
was very like jarring and justwhy are you trying to, Okay,
first of all, that's not true.
Like who are all these kids thatare only just main lining candy?
Emily (36:02):
Yeah.
Vanessa (36:04):
I mean, I, I, I, Maybe they're out there.
I think that most parents arenot giving their kids candy for
breakfast, lunch, dinner, butmaybe they are.
And then two, to be like, Thisshould be illegal.
These are legal drugs.
Like, Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Emily (36:22):
know that guys like doped through his like D three college
football experience and shitlike that too.
Like these people are, He waslike in a frat, I just, it's
just annoying to see like thevilifying of foods like that,
especially when it's like sohypocritical and I know I'm just
like making a guess, but it'slike a well educated guess based
(36:44):
on personal experience.
So now you can listen to thatlittle piece of advice from me.
I'll use my personal experienceon that one.
Vanessa (36:52):
I feel like Emily's like experiencing real trauma as
we record this right now.
Like she's really lookingnervous.
She's kind of like fidgeting alot with everything that I bring
up.
She's like, Oh my gosh, I haveso much work to do.
Emily (37:06):
No.
Genuinely like that's anaccurate assessment.
Vanessa (37:10):
But in summary hopefully you kind of got the
highlights of the car carnivorediet.
And as you probably would'veimagined, it's not going to be
our favorite cuz no diet isespecially one that's this
restrictive.
And I hope that if.
You know, something that youwere thinking about or that
you're currently doing that youkind of take these words into
(37:30):
consideration.
Think about what you're missingout on.
That's the biggest thing.
Yes, you're eating liver, supernutrient dense, but why aren't
you eating kale?
Kale has different stuff thanthe liver, and I'm just using
kale as an example.
It could be any food.
But you're missing out on.
Emily (37:50):
Totally, and it's just not worth it.
Like the purported benefits arenot studied.
They're not verified.
And even if they were, you'restill gonna have some side
effects that are not a goodthing.
Like James Blunt, who gotscurvy.
Vanessa (38:05):
Yeah, very sad and remem remembering that we are
all genetically different aswell, so different diets are
going to affect us alldifferently, and that's why
nutrition is so individual.
Emily (38:18):
a hundred percent.
Vanessa (38:20):
All right.
So I think that about wraps usup about the Carnivore diet.
If you do have any suggestionsfor podcasts that you want us to
record, please let us know.
We love doing listener requests.
Emily (38:33):
Yes, please tell us all of your suggestions.
And I think that anothersuggestion we got was Medical
medium semi-recently, eventhough we already did a celery
juice episode.
I feel like we definitely couldgo on for a while about the
other aspects of him, and he'sstill ragingly popular, so.
Vanessa (38:50):
Well that's crazy.
Well, we'll dive deeper intothat.
Until then, we'll see you nexttime.
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