February 4, 2022 • 15 mins
During the first eighteen months of the pandemic, many schools across the UK were on lockdown, with primary and secondary education taking place in the home environment. As a result there was a greater deal of parental involvement in the education of the children. In this episode, Rebecca Durose-Croft has a conversation with literacy consultant, Sarah Loader about the lessons educators and parents learnt as a result of the lockdown, and what will be carried forward as children return to the classroom setting.
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Episode Transcript
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Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:00):
Hi, and welcome to Westchester words, UK
and international.
I'm Rebecca Durose-Croft,content and services director at
Westchester education services.
So now the summer term has endedand we can look back on 18,
extraordinary months of ourchildren's schooling, in
particular homeschooling.
Perhaps now it feels like a safetime to look back and have a
(00:21):
think about what we learnt ormaybe what we learnt about what
we needed to learn to teach ourchildren.
And today we're talking withliteracy consultant, Sarah
Loader about the lessons learnedin lockdown in terms of how our
children were taught and howthey learnt.
So let's start with those zoomlessons and Sarah, what kind of
insight do we build on?
Sarah Loader (00:39):
Rebecca, on a personal level, I found it
fascinating and it's notsomething that normal schooling
offers most of us, um, asparents that kind of chance to
observe and sort of be part ofour children's school day or
certainly elements of it.
I think lots of parents wereable to witness how their
children interacted with others,their peers, the teacher, their
(01:03):
level of confidence in terms ofparticipating in discussions,
answering questions, what topicsinterested them and which turned
them straight off, the subjectsand concepts they found
difficult.
And I guess the things that camemore easily to them, I think for
parents who glean a bit lessfrom their children on the walk
home from school, in terms ofwhat they've done all day, it
(01:24):
offered enormous insight.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (01:26):
Oh yeah, that.
I mean, kids come home fromschool.
I mean, my daughter comes homefrom school and I'll say, what
did you do?
What did you eat?
And she just says, I dunno, Idunno.
I dunno.
uh, so it makes mewonder how teachers might have
felt kind of being the oppositeof that and suddenly not having
that insight.
Sarah Loader (01:39):
Yeah.
I mean, absolutely.
I think lots of teachersprobably felt really daunted by
the prospect, not only of zoomteaching, which in itself, I
think had some challenges.
Um, but by the idea of teachingtheir class of 30 in front of
all those children's parents,because for us, certainly it
wasn't possible to leave our sonto conduct his lessons on his
(01:59):
own, um, due to his kind of ageand stage, he couldn't work the
technology, the muting andunmuting, and we really needed
to kind of be there to get thegist of the tasks and
activities.
And I guess if I'm honest, kindof keep him focused and
concentrating.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:14):
Yeah, of course.
Sarah Loader (02:14):
But we did try to stay in the background sort of
more bystanders than activeparticipants, which I have to
say is easier said than done.
When you are watching your childscribble something that's
completely wrong or refuse tovolunteer and answer when they
know it or get the jitters aboutsomething.
But we did try.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:30):
Yeah, I bet.
I mean, it must have takenparents a fair bit of restraint
to maintain that bystanderposition.
But what could it provide and,and what type of things might it
have gleaned just by watching?
Sarah Loader (02:40):
Well, I can certainly identify with that
challenge and that selfrestraint, but what's
interesting, I think, is to seehow children in the class react
to each other, how they kind ofbounce off each other or they're
encouraged or discouraged by thedifferent personalities in the
class.
What builds their confidence andwhat knocks it down, the effect
the teacher has on that dynamic.
(03:01):
Um, how well she, or he's ableto draw things out of children,
perhaps curb overenthusiasm inothers.
As a parent, being able to seewhere your child slots into that
bigger picture can be reallyenlightening.
And if you are able to take astep back from the kind of
immediacy of it, which isreally, really difficult, it's
interesting to see how thoseclassroom dynamics kind of play
(03:23):
out.
Um, I think it's easy to assumethat because parents know their
children so well that they knowthem in every environment.
And one of the things I wasstruck by was how different my
son was at school, so to speak,then he was at home with us.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (03:38):
Yeah.
That's really interesting,actually.
So what way was he different?
Sarah Loader (03:40):
Just a lot quieter, I think less sure of
himself.
Happy kind of drifting into thebackground.
Quite a lively, willing observermm-hmm but an
observer nonetheless.
So not as involved as I thoughthe'd be and really, really
concerned about getting thingswrong, which I think, and having
spoken to, um, a lot of peersand friends, I think that's
(04:02):
quite common that kind of fearof making a mistake was quite
debilitating at times.
Yes.
Yeah.
And watching the impact thatpattern of behavior has in terms
of being able to participate inclass and take risks and ask for
help is really illuminating.
So there can be a sort of dominoeffect, which is useful to
witness firsthand in order to beable to react and respond to it.
(04:22):
Parents are obviously respondingto their children's behavior all
the time, but having the chanceto respond specifically to those
classroom attitudes or personaswas definitely an interesting
and surprising opportunity oflockdown.
So a response of that, to thatfear of getting it wrong, might
be about resilience in terms oflearning.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (04:43):
Yeah, I mean I never thought of it from
that point of view that a, achild would've felt quite
worried and scared of doing thatlesson in front of their
parents.
And it's not just doing it infront of your teacher.
It's, you know, the, the twopeople who are the most focused
point of your life, that musthave been really daunting for
them.
So, so what does that learningresilience look like then?
Sarah Loader (04:58):
I guess it's about having the confidence and the
assurance to try things mm-hmm and it's
interesting, cause we teach thata lot in terms of physical
activities with our children,from when they're quite tiny,
you know, learning to walk,riding a bike, climbing a tree,
we're constantly pushing themout of their comfort zone to
experience new things, get toknow their physical
capabilities.
(05:19):
But I don't think we do that asmuch when it comes to learning,
because I guess to some degree,we are less involved in that
side of things, um, from whenthey start school and actually
for some of us from when theystart nursery or preschool.
And of course there is homeworkand some at home activities and
reading and perhaps somewriting, but in a broader sense,
(05:39):
we leave that to school.
And suddenly we were in thissituation where we could watch
our children trying to solve amath problem or interpret a
story or spell something new.
And it wasn't just about whetherthey had the capability to do
that task.
It was about how they were ableto do it in that classroom
environment.
Yeah.
With their peers with lessattention, with a time
(06:00):
structure.
So kind of how willing, and ablethey were to, to take risks,
make judgements, put themselvesout there.
That's what was new to a lot ofparents.
And that was what was reallyinteresting.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (06:10):
So in those situations there, where
there is that lack of confidenceor, or resilience, how should
parents have well, in an idealworld, which we definitely
weren't in at the time, howshould parents have been
supporting children in thosezoom classrooms?
Sarah Loader (06:22):
Well it is difficult, isn't it?
Because it goes back to the ideaof how involved we were meant to
be and how helpful that actuallywas.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not able to sitwith them in the classroom and,
and encourage them and supportthem.
So how much you do that within azoom lesson depends on, on, on
your kind of how you feel as aparent, I think, and how
teachers might have responded tothat.
I think for some children, itmay have been useful to have
(06:44):
someone in the backgroundreminding them how much they can
do.
But I think the most importantthing is really about having
seen that behavior or anybehavior that we witnessed
during lockdown and during thosezoom lessons, um, is kind of
what we do with that informationmoving forward.
So children are generally backat school now, as you said, and
we are not able to sit alongsidethem, but we are armed with a
(07:05):
bit more knowledge about thefactors that affect their
learning, which can only be apositive thing.
I think it might not be a lackof confidence.
Some parents will have seentheir children's confidence and
capacity emerge.
Um, in that environment, theymay have seen children more
involved than they expected,more central in that dynamic.
Uh, perhaps they notice theirchildren lead more than they
(07:26):
thought they would, take a bitmore ownership, be more
commanding.
It just provided a window intohow our children operate in an
environment.
Perhaps arguably one of the onlyenvironments when they're very
young, that we are, almostentirely excluded from as
parents.
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
I'm not sure you can say thesame for older children who will
have been working much moreindependently and privately
(07:48):
you'd thought though, dependingon how kind of homework stations
were set up, there may stillhave been the odd glimpse into
their classroom personas.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (07:56):
Yeah, I mean I was very different in
school than I was at homethroughout my school life.
So it is, it was that kind ofglimpse into them in a different
world, wasn't it?
But I guess as a question nowabout what we do with that
knowledge now that we're armedwith it.
Sarah Loader (08:08):
Yes.
And I think it's really valuableto see what makes our children
tick in different environments.
And I think the more we know,you know, the more, the more
useful that is.
So for learning, understanding,or impacts that what that might
be about the atmosphere wecreate, perhaps the level of
challenge we set, how muchsupport we offer or the type of
(08:29):
activity that children are doingand how we kind of generate
interest.
I guess it's about buildingtowards a more successful
learning scenario now that weare out of homeschooling.
How we adapt that in our lives,moving forward.
I guess we've learned a bitabout how our children learn
rather than what they know.
(08:50):
And that might have been aslightly unexpected, positive
outcome of homeschooling.
Yeah.
I think many parents were ableto communicate with their
children and provide for them ina different way than they could
before lockdown.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm sure.
So the big question then is whatcan parents do differently going
forward?
Sarah Loader (09:07):
Well, Of course it's totally individual, but
just knowing that for instance,your child responds very well to
imaginative activities orproblem solving tasks, that they
work better independently orwith more interaction, perhaps
better with tasks broken down orwith more kind of in broader or
encompassing activities, thereare all sorts of variations we
can create to get that balanceright.
(09:28):
Or at least more comfortable andenjoyable for them.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:32):
Yeah.
I mean, in terms of thesubstance of those activities we
might be setting or helping withat home, did we, or did you
learn anything as a parent aboutwhat our children can actually
do or, or not?
And, and do, do you find thinkthere was any big surprises
about the fundamentals in yourchild's learning?
Sarah Loader (09:46):
It's interesting.
I think there were probably lesssurprises there, certainly for
parents who are pretty involvedgenerally in their children's
learning.
It, may have shone a light onwhat we already suspected in
terms of strengths andweaknesses.
Mm-hmm.
So knowing that your childstruggles a bit with maths might
have been highlighted during thezoom lessons, seeing just how
tricky some tasks were for themmight have provided a useful
(10:11):
reminder that things are onlyeasy when you can do them, which
sounds completely obvious.
Yes.
But it's worth holding onto whenyou are trying to help your
child with schoolwork at home.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I also think gaining anunderstanding of how concepts
are taught in school.
So how the skills are built up,like building blocks to enable
that that secure understandingwas really useful and that if
(10:34):
children failed to grasp oneelement of that skill
sdevelopment, it can actually bereally difficult for them to
proceed.
As a parent, I think there's alot you can take away from that
in terms of supporting thatskills tower to continue the
metaphor and helping to fill anygaps that become apparent or
became apparent duringhomeschooling.
(10:55):
So that might have been in mathwith particular times tables
gaps, for instance, which createobstacles for other conceptual
processes or with knowledge ofcertain sounds in phonics or
anything really.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (11:07):
That was the one I was gonna mention.
I was gonna mention phonics, Ican imagine that was quite an
eye opener.
Sarah Loader (11:11):
Absolutely.
And if you're missing someparticular sounds, then it, you
know, as you know, that has ahuge knock on.
So it's about seeing the impactthat those gaps have.
Um, it informs what needs to beworked on whether that's at home
in terms of where you can focusyour support or at school, by
speaking to teachers about extrasupport and tuition, it just
(11:31):
makes for a sort of more joinedup approach to learning, which I
think is something we should allbe taking away from this.
And I certainly, noticed thatthe parent consultation that we
had that followed homeschoolingfelt completely different from
ones we'd had previously withregard to our son.
Yeah.
I bet.
In the way that we were able tocommunicate with the teacher, we
just had yeah, yeah.
(11:51):
Much more of sharedunderstanding of who he is.
Mm-hmm thanpreviously when we've, we've
actually been struck by howdifferent the teacher's
perception was of him than ours.
And we struggled to get thosetwo kind of pictures of him to
match, but I found that afterlockdown, we could sort of all
acknowledge and identify those,those gaps in his learning
(12:15):
together talk about the beststrategies and it just felt a
much more realistic.
Yeah.
Kind of honest conversation.
It was more useful than it'sever been.
Certainly.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (12:24):
Yeah.
So it was, it was an exercise inkind of learning who he is like
the whole like, you know,the whole view of him and, you
know, inside and outside ofschool and understanding him as,
as, as an individual.
Really.
Absolutely.
Exactly.
So we've talked quite a lotabout the benefits of
homeschooling and the successfuloutcomes, but for many parents,
for my friends and family, Iknow it was an enormous
challenge.
And I just felt very lucky thatall I had to do was put my
(12:47):
daughter in front of Peppa Pig,cuz she wasn't at school age
.
But um, do you think that theseupsides make up for that?
Sarah Loader (12:54):
We did a fair bit of that as well, so don't feel
bad, but you're right.
Of course.
Um, and I'm not trying todetract from those challenges in
any way.
For many parents, and Iabsolutely include myself in
this.
It was one of the harder aspectsof parenting I've encountered.
I'm not a teacher.
My son is not a particularlymotivated independent learner,
(13:15):
so yes, it was really, really,really tough.
But I think there are positivesthat we have to take away from
it as, as kind of compensation.
Um, we know more about how ourchildren learn more about how
they cope and communicate in theclassroom, more about the
challenges they face, wheretheir strengths lie than we ever
did before.
And you know, knowledge is powerthey say, so let's take that
(13:38):
forward and, and uh, and, andtake it as a win.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (13:42):
Yeah, absolutely, you have to see the
positives out of it.
Don't you?
So turning it on its head then,uh, what were the downsides to
being so involved with yourchildren's learning?
Sarah Loader (13:49):
Well, that's quite an interesting point and
I think there probably were, um,keep it clean.
some outcomes that weretricky to manage.
It can feel quite hard to handthat control back to schools and
to head back into the dark interms of what happens beyond,
beyond the classroom doordipping in and out of anything
with that degree of intensity isquite frustrating.
(14:10):
So going from such a position ofinvolvement and responsibility
to one of so much less, toknowing a lot to knowing much
less is quite disorientingactually.
And I think for teachers havinghad parents so involved may be
quite difficult in terms ofmanaging those relationships,
moving forward.
(14:30):
Teachers are the experts afterall, but now there are probably
quite a lot of parents who thinkthey more than that's helpful,
but lockdown was, was bizarreand destabilizing generally.
And so in some ways theexperience of homeschooling just
became kind of grouped underthat umbrella experience.
The whole thing was incrediblyhard and boring and depressing
(14:51):
and frightening.
And I think homeschooling couldbe categorized as all those
things for most parents andchildren, to be honest
yeah, but unlike other aspectsof lockdown, there were some
real benefits and knowing alittle bit more about our
children.
Well perhaps knowing ourchildren a little better is
definitely one, one of thosebenefits.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (15:11):
Yeah.
I can totally see that and, andgiving yourself a, a massive pat
on the back for that as well forgetting through it and for
continuing with your children'slearning.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Sarah.
That was really interesting.
It was great to talk to you asalways.
Thank you.
Hi, and welcome to Westchester words, UK
and international.
I'm Rebecca Durose-Croft,content and services director at
Westchester education services.
So now the summer term has endedand we can look back on 18,
extraordinary months of ourchildren's schooling, in
particular homeschooling.
Perhaps now it feels like a safetime to look back and have a
(00:21):
think about what we learnt ormaybe what we learnt about what
we needed to learn to teach ourchildren.
And today we're talking withliteracy consultant, Sarah
Loader about the lessons learnedin lockdown in terms of how our
children were taught and howthey learnt.
So let's start with those zoomlessons and Sarah, what kind of
insight do we build on?
Sarah Loader (00:39):
Rebecca, on a personal level, I found it
fascinating and it's notsomething that normal schooling
offers most of us, um, asparents that kind of chance to
observe and sort of be part ofour children's school day or
certainly elements of it.
I think lots of parents wereable to witness how their
children interacted with others,their peers, the teacher, their
(01:03):
level of confidence in terms ofparticipating in discussions,
answering questions, what topicsinterested them and which turned
them straight off, the subjectsand concepts they found
difficult.
And I guess the things that camemore easily to them, I think for
parents who glean a bit lessfrom their children on the walk
home from school, in terms ofwhat they've done all day, it
(01:24):
offered enormous insight.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (01:26):
Oh yeah, that.
I mean, kids come home fromschool.
I mean, my daughter comes homefrom school and I'll say, what
did you do?
What did you eat?
And she just says, I dunno, Idunno.
I dunno.
felt kind of being the oppositeof that and suddenly not having
that insight.
Sarah Loader (01:39):
Yeah.
I mean, absolutely.
I think lots of teachersprobably felt really daunted by
the prospect, not only of zoomteaching, which in itself, I
think had some challenges.
Um, but by the idea of teachingtheir class of 30 in front of
all those children's parents,because for us, certainly it
wasn't possible to leave our sonto conduct his lessons on his
(01:59):
own, um, due to his kind of ageand stage, he couldn't work the
technology, the muting andunmuting, and we really needed
to kind of be there to get thegist of the tasks and
activities.
And I guess if I'm honest, kindof keep him focused and
concentrating.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:14):
Yeah, of course.
Sarah Loader (02:14):
But we did try to stay in the background sort of
more bystanders than activeparticipants, which I have to
say is easier said than done.
When you are watching your childscribble something that's
completely wrong or refuse tovolunteer and answer when they
know it or get the jitters aboutsomething.
But we did try.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:30):
Yeah, I bet.
I mean, it must have takenparents a fair bit of restraint
to maintain that bystanderposition.
But what could it provide and,and what type of things might it
have gleaned just by watching?
Sarah Loader (02:40):
Well, I can certainly identify with that
challenge and that selfrestraint, but what's
interesting, I think, is to seehow children in the class react
to each other, how they kind ofbounce off each other or they're
encouraged or discouraged by thedifferent personalities in the
class.
What builds their confidence andwhat knocks it down, the effect
the teacher has on that dynamic.
(03:01):
Um, how well she, or he's ableto draw things out of children,
perhaps curb overenthusiasm inothers.
As a parent, being able to seewhere your child slots into that
bigger picture can be reallyenlightening.
And if you are able to take astep back from the kind of
immediacy of it, which isreally, really difficult, it's
interesting to see how thoseclassroom dynamics kind of play
(03:23):
out.
Um, I think it's easy to assumethat because parents know their
children so well that they knowthem in every environment.
And one of the things I wasstruck by was how different my
son was at school, so to speak,then he was at home with us.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (03:38):
Yeah.
That's really interesting,actually.
So what way was he different?
Sarah Loader (03:40):
Just a lot quieter, I think less sure of
himself.
Happy kind of drifting into thebackground.
Quite a lively, willing observermm-hmm
observer nonetheless.
So not as involved as I thoughthe'd be and really, really
concerned about getting thingswrong, which I think, and having
spoken to, um, a lot of peersand friends, I think that's
(04:02):
quite common that kind of fearof making a mistake was quite
debilitating at times.
Yes.
Yeah.
And watching the impact thatpattern of behavior has in terms
of being able to participate inclass and take risks and ask for
help is really illuminating.
So there can be a sort of dominoeffect, which is useful to
witness firsthand in order to beable to react and respond to it.
(04:22):
Parents are obviously respondingto their children's behavior all
the time, but having the chanceto respond specifically to those
classroom attitudes or personaswas definitely an interesting
and surprising opportunity oflockdown.
So a response of that, to thatfear of getting it wrong, might
be about resilience in terms oflearning.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (04:43):
Yeah, I mean I never thought of it from
that point of view that a, achild would've felt quite
worried and scared of doing thatlesson in front of their
parents.
And it's not just doing it infront of your teacher.
It's, you know, the, the twopeople who are the most focused
point of your life, that musthave been really daunting for
them.
So, so what does that learningresilience look like then?
Sarah Loader (04:58):
I guess it's about having the confidence and the
assurance to try things mm-hmm
interesting, cause we teach thata lot in terms of physical
activities with our children,from when they're quite tiny,
you know, learning to walk,riding a bike, climbing a tree,
we're constantly pushing themout of their comfort zone to
experience new things, get toknow their physical
capabilities.
(05:19):
But I don't think we do that asmuch when it comes to learning,
because I guess to some degree,we are less involved in that
side of things, um, from whenthey start school and actually
for some of us from when theystart nursery or preschool.
And of course there is homeworkand some at home activities and
reading and perhaps somewriting, but in a broader sense,
(05:39):
we leave that to school.
And suddenly we were in thissituation where we could watch
our children trying to solve amath problem or interpret a
story or spell something new.
And it wasn't just about whetherthey had the capability to do
that task.
It was about how they were ableto do it in that classroom
environment.
Yeah.
With their peers with lessattention, with a time
(06:00):
structure.
So kind of how willing, and ablethey were to, to take risks,
make judgements, put themselvesout there.
That's what was new to a lot ofparents.
And that was what was reallyinteresting.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (06:10):
So in those situations there, where
there is that lack of confidenceor, or resilience, how should
parents have well, in an idealworld, which we definitely
weren't in at the time, howshould parents have been
supporting children in thosezoom classrooms?
Sarah Loader (06:22):
Well it is difficult, isn't it?
Because it goes back to the ideaof how involved we were meant to
be and how helpful that actuallywas.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not able to sitwith them in the classroom and,
and encourage them and supportthem.
So how much you do that within azoom lesson depends on, on, on
your kind of how you feel as aparent, I think, and how
teachers might have responded tothat.
I think for some children, itmay have been useful to have
(06:44):
someone in the backgroundreminding them how much they can
do.
But I think the most importantthing is really about having
seen that behavior or anybehavior that we witnessed
during lockdown and during thosezoom lessons, um, is kind of
what we do with that informationmoving forward.
So children are generally backat school now, as you said, and
we are not able to sit alongsidethem, but we are armed with a
(07:05):
bit more knowledge about thefactors that affect their
learning, which can only be apositive thing.
I think it might not be a lackof confidence.
Some parents will have seentheir children's confidence and
capacity emerge.
Um, in that environment, theymay have seen children more
involved than they expected,more central in that dynamic.
Uh, perhaps they notice theirchildren lead more than they
(07:26):
thought they would, take a bitmore ownership, be more
commanding.
It just provided a window intohow our children operate in an
environment.
Perhaps arguably one of the onlyenvironments when they're very
young, that we are, almostentirely excluded from as
parents.
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
I'm not sure you can say thesame for older children who will
have been working much moreindependently and privately
(07:48):
you'd thought though, dependingon how kind of homework stations
were set up, there may stillhave been the odd glimpse into
their classroom personas.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (07:56):
Yeah, I mean I was very different in
school than I was at homethroughout my school life.
So it is, it was that kind ofglimpse into them in a different
world, wasn't it?
But I guess as a question nowabout what we do with that
knowledge now that we're armedwith it.
Sarah Loader (08:08):
Yes.
And I think it's really valuableto see what makes our children
tick in different environments.
And I think the more we know,you know, the more, the more
useful that is.
So for learning, understanding,or impacts that what that might
be about the atmosphere wecreate, perhaps the level of
challenge we set, how muchsupport we offer or the type of
(08:29):
activity that children are doingand how we kind of generate
interest.
I guess it's about buildingtowards a more successful
learning scenario now that weare out of homeschooling.
How we adapt that in our lives,moving forward.
I guess we've learned a bitabout how our children learn
rather than what they know.
(08:50):
And that might have been aslightly unexpected, positive
outcome of homeschooling.
Yeah.
I think many parents were ableto communicate with their
children and provide for them ina different way than they could
before lockdown.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm sure.
So the big question then is whatcan parents do differently going
forward?
Sarah Loader (09:07):
Well, Of course it's totally individual, but
just knowing that for instance,your child responds very well to
imaginative activities orproblem solving tasks, that they
work better independently orwith more interaction, perhaps
better with tasks broken down orwith more kind of in broader or
encompassing activities, thereare all sorts of variations we
can create to get that balanceright.
(09:28):
Or at least more comfortable andenjoyable for them.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:32):
Yeah.
I mean, in terms of thesubstance of those activities we
might be setting or helping withat home, did we, or did you
learn anything as a parent aboutwhat our children can actually
do or, or not?
And, and do, do you find thinkthere was any big surprises
about the fundamentals in yourchild's learning?
Sarah Loader (09:46):
It's interesting.
I think there were probably lesssurprises there, certainly for
parents who are pretty involvedgenerally in their children's
learning.
It, may have shone a light onwhat we already suspected in
terms of strengths andweaknesses.
Mm-hmm
So knowing that your childstruggles a bit with maths might
have been highlighted during thezoom lessons, seeing just how
tricky some tasks were for themmight have provided a useful
(10:11):
reminder that things are onlyeasy when you can do them, which
sounds completely obvious.
Yes.
But it's worth holding onto whenyou are trying to help your
child with schoolwork at home.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I also think gaining anunderstanding of how concepts
are taught in school.
So how the skills are built up,like building blocks to enable
that that secure understandingwas really useful and that if
(10:34):
children failed to grasp oneelement of that skill
sdevelopment, it can actually bereally difficult for them to
proceed.
As a parent, I think there's alot you can take away from that
in terms of supporting thatskills tower to continue the
metaphor and helping to fill anygaps that become apparent or
became apparent duringhomeschooling.
(10:55):
So that might have been in mathwith particular times tables
gaps, for instance, which createobstacles for other conceptual
processes or with knowledge ofcertain sounds in phonics or
anything really.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (11:07):
That was the one I was gonna mention.
I was gonna mention phonics, Ican imagine that was quite an
eye opener.
Sarah Loader (11:11):
Absolutely.
And if you're missing someparticular sounds, then it, you
know, as you know, that has ahuge knock on.
So it's about seeing the impactthat those gaps have.
Um, it informs what needs to beworked on whether that's at home
in terms of where you can focusyour support or at school, by
speaking to teachers about extrasupport and tuition, it just
(11:31):
makes for a sort of more joinedup approach to learning, which I
think is something we should allbe taking away from this.
And I certainly, noticed thatthe parent consultation that we
had that followed homeschoolingfelt completely different from
ones we'd had previously withregard to our son.
Yeah.
I bet.
In the way that we were able tocommunicate with the teacher, we
just had yeah, yeah.
(11:51):
Much more of sharedunderstanding of who he is.
Mm-hmm
actually been struck by howdifferent the teacher's
perception was of him than ours.
And we struggled to get thosetwo kind of pictures of him to
match, but I found that afterlockdown, we could sort of all
acknowledge and identify those,those gaps in his learning
(12:15):
together talk about the beststrategies and it just felt a
much more realistic.
Yeah.
Kind of honest conversation.
It was more useful than it'sever been.
Certainly.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (12:24):
Yeah.
So it was, it was an exercise inkind of learning who he is like
the whole
know, inside and outside ofschool and understanding him as,
as, as an individual.
Really.
Absolutely.
Exactly.
So we've talked quite a lotabout the benefits of
homeschooling and the successfuloutcomes, but for many parents,
for my friends and family, Iknow it was an enormous
challenge.
And I just felt very lucky thatall I had to do was put my
(12:47):
daughter in front of Peppa Pig,cuz she wasn't at school age
But um, do you think that theseupsides make up for that?
Sarah Loader (12:54):
We did a fair bit of that as well, so don't feel
bad, but you're right.
Of course.
Um, and I'm not trying todetract from those challenges in
any way.
For many parents, and Iabsolutely include myself in
this.
It was one of the harder aspectsof parenting I've encountered.
I'm not a teacher.
My son is not a particularlymotivated independent learner,
(13:15):
so yes, it was really, really,really tough.
But I think there are positivesthat we have to take away from
it as, as kind of compensation.
Um, we know more about how ourchildren learn more about how
they cope and communicate in theclassroom, more about the
challenges they face, wheretheir strengths lie than we ever
did before.
And you know, knowledge is powerthey say, so let's take that
(13:38):
forward and, and uh, and, andtake it as a win.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (13:42):
Yeah, absolutely, you have to see the
positives out of it.
Don't you?
So turning it on its head then,uh, what were the downsides to
being so involved with yourchildren's learning?
Sarah Loader (13:49):
Well, that's quite an interesting point
I think there probably were, um,keep it clean.
It can feel quite hard to handthat control back to schools and
to head back into the dark interms of what happens beyond,
beyond the classroom doordipping in and out of anything
with that degree of intensity isquite frustrating.
(14:10):
So going from such a position ofinvolvement and responsibility
to one of so much less, toknowing a lot to knowing much
less is quite disorientingactually.
And I think for teachers havinghad parents so involved may be
quite difficult in terms ofmanaging those relationships,
moving forward.
(14:30):
Teachers are the experts afterall, but now there are probably
quite a lot of parents who thinkthey more than that's helpful,
but lockdown was, was bizarreand destabilizing generally.
And so in some ways theexperience of homeschooling just
became kind of grouped underthat umbrella experience.
The whole thing was incrediblyhard and boring and depressing
(14:51):
and frightening.
And I think homeschooling couldbe categorized as all those
things for most parents andchildren, to be honest
yeah, but unlike other aspectsof lockdown, there were some
real benefits and knowing alittle bit more about our
children.
Well perhaps knowing ourchildren a little better is
definitely one, one of thosebenefits.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (15:11):
Yeah.
I can totally see that and, andgiving yourself a, a massive pat
on the back for that as well forgetting through it and for
continuing with your children'slearning.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Sarah.
That was really interesting.
It was great to talk to you asalways.
Thank you.
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