January 19, 2023 • 18 mins
Managing Director for Education, Rebecca Durose-Croft, talks to Harry Waters, teacher and founder of Renewable English, about giving teachers the tools to raise climate change awareness and how to bring the climate change discussion into the classroom.
Find all of our episodes on your favorite podcast platform or at our website.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:01):
Hi, and welcome to Westchester Words, UK
and International.
I'm Rebecca Durose Croft,managing Director for Education
at Westchester EducationServices.
Today I'm talking with HarryWaters, teacher, content creator
and founder of RenewableEnglish, a free online resource
that gives educators the toolsto raise climate change
awareness.
Harry, it's great to have youhere today.
(00:22):
Thank you for joining me.
Harry Waters (00:23):
Oh, it's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:24):
You're very welcome.
Let me start with acongratulations, as you've
recently won an award at theEltons.
Can you tell me a bit more aboutthat?
Harry Waters (00:31):
Well, thank you very much.
I have indeed.
A project I worked on, we werenominated and finalists in the l
earner resource category, uh,and we received the j udge's c
ommendation for environmentalsustainability and climate
action, which is a bit of amouthful.
U m, but we were absolutelydelighted with that because it
is of course, you know, in thefield in which well, I'm
(00:54):
dedicated.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:55):
Well, congratulations again, it's a
huge achievement.
It would be really great tostart today's conversation with
a little bit about yourbackground and how, and probably
more importantly, why youcreated Renewable English.
Harry Waters (01:05):
Well, I'll, I'll do the nutshell version,
otherwise we'll be here all daylong.
Okay.
.
Um, so I've been in teaching forabout 15 years.
I've, I've been involved in theenvironment in, in activism
since as long as I can remember,to be honest.
So the Twain met basically whenI started teaching.
(01:25):
And it wasn't really until about2016 I realized the full
potential that, that, you know,teaching could have on
environmental studies on theplanet and such when I, I worked
to a private school where we gotall of the fifth grade to work
together to, to write someletters to try and improve the,
(01:47):
the sustainability of theschool.
And, and I saw that that kind ofcollective action was really
working.
So from there, I, I just workedharder to, to develop Renewable
English, to hopefully get it outto as many people as possible
and share that message with asmany teachers and students
across the world.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:03):
Wonderful.
So would you say that's whatmotivates you then, looking at
how education impacts the planetand empowering those students to
understand that?
Harry Waters (02:11):
Exactly that, exactly that.
It's, it's so good when, whenyou, you see that kind of light
bulb moment in students, youknow?
Mm.
And they, they go out there andthey start doing things for
themselves and you know, it, ittakes on a life of its own.
And all you have to do is, youknow, be that spark in somebody
and then they can go on and, youknow, create the fire.
(02:34):
I guess if I'm using Spark as ananalogy, I guess we should talk
about a fire there.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:37):
< laugh>.
No, that's wonderful.
A nd I think it's so needed nowa s well, isn't i t?
Harry Waters (02:40):
Exactly That.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:41):
I've been having a good look on your
website and the type ofresources that you offer.
And am I right in thinking thatRenewable English goes beyond
the learner and is also abouteducating the educators through
your training?
Harry Waters (02:52):
Exactly that.
It, it started out as a, as away of helping teachers, you
know, just provide them themwith materials so they could go
into their classes.
Cause when I spoke to a lot ofteachers, the, the issues they
had were, they didn't haveenough time and they didn't have
enough know-how.
So the idea at first was just tocreate the materials and there
(03:13):
are videos on there as well.
So teachers literally just hadto sit back and press play.
Um, and all the materials werethere for them.
Uh, but yeah, then I thought,you know what, this isn't really
enough to, to spread out likethat.
You know, we need to be, asteachers, we need to be
amplifiers of knowledge and, andto help other teachers.
(03:33):
Uh, you know, I've created atraining course and, and I work
with, with various publishers totry and help spread that, that
knowledge as far as possible.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (03:41):
Wonderful.
And you mentioned then aboutyour, um, materials online.
Can you just give more, a bitmore information about those and
what types of materials theyare?
Harry Waters (03:49):
At the moment there are two series on there.
Uh, the first series was, wasreally kind of the, it was the
start of everything.
Obviously it's the first series, um, but one of the main
drivers behind Renewable Englishwas that, you know, we've got
all these course books out therewith hundreds and hundreds of
different topics, but at the endof the day, they're really
(04:11):
focused around sort of 10 or 15general topics that we churn out
year after year after year withthis grammar based syllabus and
the same vocabulary about food,sport, the home, all of these
different things.
And there's absolutely nomention whatsoever of the
climate or of the climate crisisor, or of anything.
(04:34):
Mm-hmm.
.
So the idea of the first seriesis to take those main 12 themes
and, and focus in on them andhow we can look at the climate
crisis through those differenttopics.
So there are the, there are 12main lessons.
There's also a bonus lesson allabout bees.
Um, cuz I've got a friend whowho works with bees and, and who
doesn't love bees.
(04:55):
Um, uh, so they're allavailable.
They're all, you can watch thevideos and, and within the
videos there are, there areinterviews with experts in each
area and, uh, some youthactivists as well.
And, oh, sorry, changemakers as,as we should call them.
Yes.
Uh, there's also a whole bunchof tips in there that, um, come
from one of my favorite youngchangemakers who, who happens to
(05:17):
be my daughter who brings outher top tips, and yeah.
Some unfun facts and yeah, justsome general materials on how we
can focus those lessons.
So, you know, at the end of eachunit there's usually a, like a
culture section where we'd lookat how Halloween is in Ireland
or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
(05:37):
, it's like that,but it's with the climate
focused on, on fashion or beautyor something like that.
Right.
And the second series is allabout the sustainable
development goals, which I seeas an incredible tool for
education.
They're a wonderful way to helpour students, you know, raise
their awareness about a lot, lotof different social justice
(05:58):
issues, perhaps, you know, as,as sustainable development
goals.
They're not po possibly beingachieved as well as they could
be, but as a tool for education,they're brilliant.
So if you are thinking of addingthose to your classes, then feel
free to head on over and justpull out the free materials.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (06:18):
Great stuff.
And you talk then about an ELTfocus, which is obviously where
your area of expertise lies.
Do you think there's a place for, um, for this type of format
across all of the subjects orsome of the subjects?
Harry Waters (06:30):
Absolutely.
I mean, it, it really should bea cross-curricular topic if it
isn't a topic in itself.
Mm-hmm.
, which I know thatwith some, um, some publishers
they're moving out towards, youknow, sustainability projects
where they, you know, they bringall areas of STEAM into it, you
know, so that there's all sortsof different topics coming into
one.
So yes, if we don't have that,which in a lot of cases we
(06:52):
don't, then it really should becross-curricular.
You know, you can get historyinvolved in mm-hmm.
the climate crisiswithout any problems whatsoever.
You know, you can look at thebig incidents that happened
throughout history, we can lookat how people dealt with life
before technological advances,you know, and how we can go back
to those certain ways.
We can look at geography, we canlook at, you know, how different
(07:15):
indigenous peoples across theworld deal with farming, deal
with fishing, and uh, and, andtake all of this into account
when we're looking atsustainability.
And it really should becross-curricular and, and it
should be from primary throughto secondary.
So with, with the materials Icreate, they tend to be for
mm-hmm.
, ELT secondary.
(07:36):
But I know that a lot of theschools that use them as well
are, are in the UK and they'reprimary schools.
Right.
Okay.
So they can, you know, adaptthem to their materials easily
enough.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (07:46):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think there is a place forthis completely cross curricular
and you, you could see itworking as well, couldn't you,
like you say, you know, look atgeography, look at history, look
at those, those subjects thatabsolutely leap out as, as ones
which would be, would befantastic to weave this into.
Harry Waters (08:00):
I mean, even maths, to be honest, because
there's so many numbers involvedin when you talk about Of
course, yeah.
Facts and the climate crisisand, and you know, there are so
many projects that you can do on, uh, audits and tracking your
plastic uses or tra trackingyour energy usage.
You can write, you can drawgraphs, you can do all the math
things.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (08:19):
Yeah.
And that point about facts is aninteresting one cuz I know when
you and I last spoke, we talkeda lot about news literacy, um,
and how we can ensure today'slearners not only have the, an
awareness of climate change, butthey also have that ability to
be able to question sources ofinformation and the messages
that they're reading.
Do you think Renewable Englishplays a part in ensuring that
our learners are news literate?
Harry Waters (08:41):
I hope so.
There are certainly areas of itthat are, uh, they do focus on,
you know, the source of wherethe materials have come from
mm-hmm.
, um, and in the,the following series in the one
coming up, uh, in February,which starts in February, which
is all about cultivating changemakers, there is a look at, you
know, eco anxiety and, and waysto avoid that.
(09:02):
And then of course greenwashingas well, which, which is
something that's, it's, it'sreally tricky to, to kind of
unsee once you've seen it.
Um, and suddenly you're walkingdown the street and almost
everything seems likegreenwashing.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:16):
Can you explain that term greenwashing
just to the listeners in casethey've not heard of that
before?
Harry Waters (09:20):
Oh, absolutely.
It's when a company, forexample, puts out an idea that
they're doing something that isparticularly sustainable, uh, to
basically hide from all the, thebad things that they are
actually doing towards theplanet.
So for a lot of fashioncompanies do this with, you
know, their, their recycledfabrics while they're at the
(09:40):
mean, in the meantime churningout tons and tons and tons of,
of new fabrics and, andpolluting water everywhere.
But, you know, they arerecycling three different
things.
So, you know, that idea thatthey are being sustainable and
they're helping the planet whileit, at the same time they're,
they're polluting it.
I think my favorite one thoughhas to be, um, whenever you, I I
(10:03):
still have a petrol car.
I, I can't afford any other kindof car.
So when I do, you know, driveplaces, I, I have to put petrol
in the car mm-hmm.
and at the petrolstation, um, when I, I'm
printing my receipt, they say,do you want to print your
receipt or do you want to helpthe planet?
And you're just standing thereat a petrol station thinking, me
printing this receipt is makingsuch a small or, or not printing
(10:26):
it is making such a small impactin comparison to, to what fossil
fuels do to the planet.
So I hope that's a good enoughexplanation.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (10:33):
No, absolutely no, it is.
It is.
It really is.
There's so many phrases and, andterminology now being banded
around to make sure everyoneunderstands it is important, I
think.
The next question might be quitea difficult one, and I hope it
doesn't throw you too much, butwe work with a really varied mix
of publishers and ed techcompanies across, across the
globe, uh, producing print anddigital materials largely for
(10:55):
kind of primary up throughsecondary into, um, kind of the
academic journal publishing aswell.
If you could give this variedmix of companies one same
message about creating contentthat's not only sustainable but
also fits in with the ideals ofRenewable English, what do you
think that message would be?
Harry Waters (11:12):
I think the, the most important message for these
publishers and so on and soforth, is to walk the talk, as
it were mm-hmm.
.
Don't just go out there makingmaterials saying that, you know,
you need to turn off the tapwhile you're brushing your
teeth, which of course you do.
Um, and that is a, a greatstarting point for a four year
old, but walk the talk.
(11:32):
So go out there and, and be openabout who you're banking with,
um, and make sure you showpeople you're not banking with
people who are investing infossil fuels.
Mm-hmm.
, do your best torecycle any materials that you
haven't finished, you know, rerepurpose your books and and,
and print them again.
And if you're doing that, thenby all means shout about it.
(11:53):
It, but, but don't only shoutabout certain materials that,
you know, I've, I've worked on aproject recently, which, um, it
was, it was a great project towork on.
I I really enjoyed it, but itwas that kind of, you know,
scratching the surface thing,you know, it was that in terms
of deforestation, it talkedabout using less paper rather
(12:15):
than, you know, get into theimportant side of things and
looking at mining and looking atagriculture and these other
things that, that really docause a huge amount of damage to
rainforests.
And rather than just saying, youknow, use both sides of your
piece of paper, you know, it's,yes.
Again, that is a great way to,to change that, that mindset in
(12:36):
students, you know, if you'vegot 5, 6, 7 year olds in your
classroom, you can't, you know,be going out there and saying,
well, did you know that theagricultural industry destroys a
huge amount of, uh, rainforestsand what you need to do is, is
stop eating meat.
It, it doesn't work the same waywith a, with very young
learners.
No, you do need to have thosevery simple things they can do
(12:56):
at home, but I think there's fartoo much focus on the individual
still in materials and so on.
So taking it to a larger scalewould be really important is the
long answer.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (13:08):
?
No, it's great.
And I'm, and it made me thinkwhen you just said then, cause I
was thinking about my nextquestion, I was thinking, you
know, what if I, if we had toask that same question to our
learners, so maybe thinkingabout more of the secondary, the
secondary age group, what, whatcould they do?
But you made a point then thatit's not about the individual,
it's more about the group.
So is there anything asindividuals you think we can be
(13:30):
doing or our students can bedoing to feel empowered to at
least even have theseconversations around climate
change?
Harry Waters (13:36):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and the thing is, it has tostart with the individual.
You know, you can't suddenly goout there and, and become, you
know, Greta 2.0 and, you know,change the world and, and
collect hundreds of scientistsessays and publish them as a
book.
Like it has to start withyourself.
So it has to be those smallindividual actions at first.
And even if it is going out on alitter pick, which, you know, it
(13:59):
can start with you, but then itcan spread out.
It can move on.
Yes.
And it, it can, it can thenbecome a community-wide thing.
And my advice would be startwith those small things.
So let's, let's talk aboutschools for example.
Start with one thing, like,okay, we want our school to be
plastic free, you know, singleuse plastic free mm-hmm.
.
And that can start with anindividual, but it can spread to
(14:21):
the whole school.
They can connect with schoolsacross the globe, like
connecting with people like kidsagainst plastic.
Um, they can see the actionsthat other people do and, and
from there it can build and youknow, they can write letters to
decision makers and, and itstarts with a small individual
action, but it becomes groupaction and then it becomes
community wide action.
Mm-hmm.
.
So that would be my, my mainpiece of device.
(14:44):
It is start small, but, but youknow, be persistent.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (14:48):
Yeah.
You have to start somewhere andyou have to be realistic, don't
you as well.
Exactly.
Okay.
My last question then is a bigone,.
Um, you and I have spokenseparately.
We've both got daughters at diffdifferent ages and actually
learning, um, in differentcountries as well being schooled
in different countries.
But in an ideal world ingeneral, what would education
look like to you?
Ooh,
Harry Waters (15:08):
, um,
Rebecca Durose-Croft (15:10):
You can take a breath and have a.
Harry Waters (15:11):
Yeah, so looking at a broader sense rather than
just the, you know, thesustainability side of things.
I, I do think that it should beintegrated as its own subject
in, in classes, of course.
Um, but I think we need to stepaway from the, the very
traditional, you know, exam,exam-based classes.
I know here in Spain it's sofocused, a child's ability is so
(15:35):
focused around the score theycan get in an exam.
And, and we know for a fact thatthat's not how somebody is
intelligent.
You know, that yes, people areintelligent in so many different
ways.
And so there needs to be farmore project-based learning and
inquiry-based learning in ourclasses.
And that leads on perfectly tothe environment and
sustainability and, you know,cross-curricular studies.
(15:58):
If, if you have a project about,let's say, going plastic free in
your school, that can go acrossall your different subjects, um,
and your students can learn, itcan integrate learning in all
these different classes.
Teachers will work bettertogether as well.
And it won't be as stunted as itis now.
I mean, at the moment studentsgo to maths class, they sit
there for an hour, they'rehammered with sums, and then
(16:19):
they go to language class wherethey're hit there and they're
hammered for an hour withsomething different.
Which, you know, I don't knowbecause I'm not a language
teacher, uh, of, of the Spanishlanguage that is.
But yeah, so I think integratingas many classes together as
possible, more project basedlearning would be, would be
fantastic.
And, and far fewer exams becauseit's just something so wrong
(16:43):
about seeing exam stress in aseven year old that.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (16:47):
Oh, gosh.
Harry Waters (16:47):
Yeah.
It's just not really okay.
And yet it reminds me of a fewyears ago when my daughter was
really nervous about going toschool because she had an
English exam.
Um, now my daughter's bilingual,so, there shouldn't have
been the nerves there, but, butthey were so, you know, fewer
exams, more projects, more fun,more creativity, basically.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:08):
Oh, I couldn't agree more, Harry.
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
That was such an interestingdiscussion.
Should we end by you?
Could you let the listeners knowwhere to go to, to get those
fantastic resources fromRenewable English?
Harry Waters (17:20):
Oh, of course.
They can come towww.renewableenglish.com.
Um, or they can, they can findRenewable English on almost
every social media.
Um, we we're on LinkedIn,Facebook and Instagram.
Um, we've tried TikTok, but, um,, other than the fact it
takes up a lot of memory on ourphones, it also takes an awful
(17:42):
lot of effort to, to try and becool.
Um, we're not, we're not quiteat that level yet.
So yeah, at Renewable English,um, across social media or
Renewableenglish.com.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:52):
Wonderful.
Thank you Harry.
Harry Waters (17:54):
Thank you so much for having me, Rebecca.
It was an absolute pleasure andI hope to speak to you again
very soon.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:58):
For more podcasts from Westchester
Education Services.
Just search Westchester Words onSpotify, apple, or Google
Podcasts, or you can find us onour website.
Hi, and welcome to Westchester Words, UK
and International.
I'm Rebecca Durose Croft,managing Director for Education
at Westchester EducationServices.
Today I'm talking with HarryWaters, teacher, content creator
and founder of RenewableEnglish, a free online resource
that gives educators the toolsto raise climate change
awareness.
Harry, it's great to have youhere today.
(00:22):
Thank you for joining me.
Harry Waters (00:23):
Oh, it's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:24):
You're very welcome.
Let me start with acongratulations, as you've
recently won an award at theEltons.
Can you tell me a bit more aboutthat?
Harry Waters (00:31):
Well, thank you very much.
I have indeed.
A project I worked on, we werenominated and finalists in the l
earner resource category, uh,and we received the j udge's c
ommendation for environmentalsustainability and climate
action, which is a bit of amouthful.
U m, but we were absolutelydelighted with that because it
is of course, you know, in thefield in which well, I'm
(00:54):
dedicated.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (00:55):
Well, congratulations again, it's a
huge achievement.
It would be really great tostart today's conversation with
a little bit about yourbackground and how, and probably
more importantly, why youcreated Renewable English.
Harry Waters (01:05):
Well, I'll, I'll do the nutshell version,
otherwise we'll be here all daylong.
Okay.
Um, so I've been in teaching forabout 15 years.
I've, I've been involved in theenvironment in, in activism
since as long as I can remember,to be honest.
So the Twain met basically whenI started teaching.
(01:25):
And it wasn't really until about2016 I realized the full
potential that, that, you know,teaching could have on
environmental studies on theplanet and such when I, I worked
to a private school where we gotall of the fifth grade to work
together to, to write someletters to try and improve the,
(01:47):
the sustainability of theschool.
And, and I saw that that kind ofcollective action was really
working.
So from there, I, I just workedharder to, to develop Renewable
English, to hopefully get it outto as many people as possible
and share that message with asmany teachers and students
across the world.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:03):
Wonderful.
So would you say that's whatmotivates you then, looking at
how education impacts the planetand empowering those students to
understand that?
Harry Waters (02:11):
Exactly that, exactly that.
It's, it's so good when, whenyou, you see that kind of light
bulb moment in students, youknow?
Mm.
And they, they go out there andthey start doing things for
themselves and you know, it, ittakes on a life of its own.
And all you have to do is, youknow, be that spark in somebody
and then they can go on and, youknow, create the fire.
(02:34):
I guess if I'm using Spark as ananalogy, I guess we should talk
about a fire there.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:37):
< laugh>.
No, that's wonderful.
A nd I think it's so needed nowa s well, isn't i t?
Harry Waters (02:40):
Exactly That.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (02:41):
I've been having a good look on your
website and the type ofresources that you offer.
And am I right in thinking thatRenewable English goes beyond
the learner and is also abouteducating the educators through
your training?
Harry Waters (02:52):
Exactly that.
It, it started out as a, as away of helping teachers, you
know, just provide them themwith materials so they could go
into their classes.
Cause when I spoke to a lot ofteachers, the, the issues they
had were, they didn't haveenough time and they didn't have
enough know-how.
So the idea at first was just tocreate the materials and there
(03:13):
are videos on there as well.
So teachers literally just hadto sit back and press play.
Um, and all the materials werethere for them.
Uh, but yeah, then I thought,you know what, this isn't really
enough to, to spread out likethat.
You know, we need to be, asteachers, we need to be
amplifiers of knowledge and, andto help other teachers.
(03:33):
Uh, you know, I've created atraining course and, and I work
with, with various publishers totry and help spread that, that
knowledge as far as possible.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (03:41):
Wonderful.
And you mentioned then aboutyour, um, materials online.
Can you just give more, a bitmore information about those and
what types of materials theyare?
Harry Waters (03:49):
At the moment there are two series on there.
Uh, the first series was, wasreally kind of the, it was the
start of everything.
Obviously it's the first series
drivers behind Renewable Englishwas that, you know, we've got
all these course books out therewith hundreds and hundreds of
different topics, but at the endof the day, they're really
(04:11):
focused around sort of 10 or 15general topics that we churn out
year after year after year withthis grammar based syllabus and
the same vocabulary about food,sport, the home, all of these
different things.
And there's absolutely nomention whatsoever of the
climate or of the climate crisisor, or of anything.
(04:34):
Mm-hmm.
So the idea of the first seriesis to take those main 12 themes
and, and focus in on them andhow we can look at the climate
crisis through those differenttopics.
So there are the, there are 12main lessons.
There's also a bonus lesson allabout bees.
Um, cuz I've got a friend whowho works with bees and, and who
doesn't love bees
(04:55):
Um, uh, so they're allavailable.
They're all, you can watch thevideos and, and within the
videos there are, there areinterviews with experts in each
area and, uh, some youthactivists as well.
And, oh, sorry, changemakers as,as we should call them.
Yes.
Uh, there's also a whole bunchof tips in there that, um, come
from one of my favorite youngchangemakers who, who happens to
(05:17):
be my daughter who brings outher top tips,
Some unfun facts and yeah, justsome general materials on how we
can focus those lessons.
So, you know, at the end of eachunit there's usually a, like a
culture section where we'd lookat how Halloween is in Ireland
or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
(05:37):
focused on, on fashion or beautyor something like that.
Right.
And the second series is allabout the sustainable
development goals, which I seeas an incredible tool for
education.
They're a wonderful way to helpour students, you know, raise
their awareness about a lot, lotof different social justice
(05:58):
issues, perhaps, you know, as,as sustainable development
goals.
They're not po possibly beingachieved as well as they could
be, but as a tool for education,they're brilliant.
So if you are thinking of addingthose to your classes, then feel
free to head on over and justpull out the free materials.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (06:18):
Great stuff.
And you talk then about an ELTfocus, which is obviously where
your area of expertise lies.
Do you think there's a place for, um, for this type of format
across all of the subjects orsome of the subjects?
Harry Waters (06:30):
Absolutely.
I mean, it, it really should bea cross-curricular topic if it
isn't a topic in itself.
Mm-hmm.
they're moving out towards, youknow, sustainability projects
where they, you know, they bringall areas of STEAM into it, you
know, so that there's all sortsof different topics coming into
one.
So yes, if we don't have that,which in a lot of cases we
(06:52):
don't, then it really should becross-curricular.
You know, you can get historyinvolved in mm-hmm.
You know, you can look at thebig incidents that happened
throughout history, we can lookat how people dealt with life
before technological advances,you know, and how we can go back
to those certain ways.
We can look at geography, we canlook at, you know, how different
(07:15):
indigenous peoples across theworld deal with farming, deal
with fishing, and uh, and, andtake all of this into account
when we're looking atsustainability.
And it really should becross-curricular and, and it
should be from primary throughto secondary.
So with, with the materials Icreate, they tend to be for
mm-hmm.
(07:36):
But I know that a lot of theschools that use them as well
are, are in the UK and they'reprimary schools.
Right.
Okay.
So they can, you know, adaptthem to their materials easily
enough.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (07:46):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think there is a place forthis completely cross curricular
and you, you could see itworking as well, couldn't you,
like you say, you know, look atgeography, look at history, look
at those, those subjects thatabsolutely leap out as, as ones
which would be, would befantastic to weave this into.
Harry Waters (08:00):
I mean, even maths, to be honest, because
there's so many numbers involvedin when you talk about Of
course, yeah.
Facts and the climate crisisand, and you know, there are so
many projects that you can do on, uh, audits and tracking your
plastic uses or tra trackingyour energy usage.
You can write, you can drawgraphs, you can do all the math
things.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (08:19):
Yeah.
And that point about facts is aninteresting one cuz I know when
you and I last spoke, we talkeda lot about news literacy, um,
and how we can ensure today'slearners not only have the, an
awareness of climate change, butthey also have that ability to
be able to question sources ofinformation and the messages
that they're reading.
Do you think Renewable Englishplays a part in ensuring that
our learners are news literate?
Harry Waters (08:41):
I hope so.
There are certainly areas of itthat are, uh, they do focus on,
you know, the source of wherethe materials have come from
mm-hmm.
coming up, uh, in February,which starts in February, which
is all about cultivating changemakers, there is a look at, you
know, eco anxiety and, and waysto avoid that.
(09:02):
And then of course greenwashingas well, which, which is
something that's, it's, it'sreally tricky to, to kind of
unsee once you've seen it.
Um, and suddenly you're walkingdown the street and almost
everything seems likegreenwashing.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (09:16):
Can you explain that term greenwashing
just to the listeners in casethey've not heard of that
before?
Harry Waters (09:20):
Oh, absolutely.
It's when a company, forexample, puts out an idea that
they're doing something that isparticularly sustainable, uh, to
basically hide from all the, thebad things that they are
actually doing towards theplanet.
So for a lot of fashioncompanies do this with, you
know, their, their recycledfabrics while they're at the
(09:40):
mean, in the meantime churningout tons and tons and tons of,
of new fabrics and, andpolluting water everywhere.
But, you know, they arerecycling three different
things.
So, you know, that idea thatthey are being sustainable and
they're helping the planet whileit, at the same time they're,
they're polluting it.
I think my favorite one thoughhas to be, um, whenever you, I I
(10:03):
still have a petrol car.
I, I can't afford any other kindof car.
So when I do, you know, driveplaces, I, I have to put petrol
in the car mm-hmm.
printing my receipt, they say,do you want to print your
receipt or do you want to helpthe planet?
And you're just standing thereat a petrol station thinking, me
printing this receipt is makingsuch a small or, or not printing
(10:26):
it is making such a small impactin comparison to, to what fossil
fuels do to the planet.
So I hope that's a good enoughexplanation.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (10:33):
No, absolutely no, it is.
It is.
It really is.
There's so many phrases and, andterminology now being banded
around to make sure everyoneunderstands it is important, I
think.
The next question might be quitea difficult one, and I hope it
doesn't throw you too much, butwe work with a really varied mix
of publishers and ed techcompanies across, across the
globe, uh, producing print anddigital materials largely for
(10:55):
kind of primary up throughsecondary into, um, kind of the
academic journal publishing aswell.
If you could give this variedmix of companies one same
message about creating contentthat's not only sustainable but
also fits in with the ideals ofRenewable English, what do you
think that message would be?
Harry Waters (11:12):
I think the, the most important message for these
publishers and so on and soforth, is to walk the talk, as
it were mm-hmm.
Don't just go out there makingmaterials saying that, you know,
you need to turn off the tapwhile you're brushing your
teeth, which of course you do.
Um, and that is a, a greatstarting point for a four year
old, but walk the talk.
(11:32):
So go out there and, and be openabout who you're banking with,
um, and make sure you showpeople you're not banking with
people who are investing infossil fuels.
Mm-hmm.
haven't finished, you know, rerepurpose your books and and,
and print them again.
And if you're doing that, thenby all means shout about it.
(11:53):
It, but, but don't only shoutabout certain materials that,
you know, I've, I've worked on aproject recently, which, um, it
was, it was a great project towork on.
I I really enjoyed it, but itwas that kind of, you know,
scratching the surface thing,you know, it was that in terms
of deforestation, it talkedabout using less paper rather
(12:15):
than, you know, get into theimportant side of things and
looking at mining and looking atagriculture and these other
things that, that really docause a huge amount of damage to
rainforests.
And rather than just saying, youknow, use both sides of your
piece of paper, you know, it's,yes.
Again, that is a great way to,to change that, that mindset in
(12:36):
students, you know, if you'vegot 5, 6, 7 year olds in your
classroom, you can't, you know,be going out there and saying,
well, did you know that theagricultural industry destroys a
huge amount of, uh, rainforestsand what you need to do is, is
stop eating meat.
It, it doesn't work the same waywith a, with very young
learners.
No, you do need to have thosevery simple things they can do
(12:56):
at home, but I think there's fartoo much focus on the individual
still in materials and so on.
So taking it to a larger scalewould be really important is the
long answer.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (13:08):
No, it's great.
And I'm, and it made me thinkwhen you just said then, cause I
was thinking about my nextquestion, I was thinking, you
know, what if I, if we had toask that same question to our
learners, so maybe thinkingabout more of the secondary, the
secondary age group, what, whatcould they do?
But you made a point then thatit's not about the individual,
it's more about the group.
So is there anything asindividuals you think we can be
(13:30):
doing or our students can bedoing to feel empowered to at
least even have theseconversations around climate
change?
Harry Waters (13:36):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and the thing is, it has tostart with the individual.
You know, you can't suddenly goout there and, and become, you
know, Greta 2.0 and, you know,change the world and, and
collect hundreds of scientistsessays and publish them as a
book.
Like it has to start withyourself.
So it has to be those smallindividual actions at first.
And even if it is going out on alitter pick, which, you know, it
(13:59):
can start with you, but then itcan spread out.
It can move on.
Yes.
And it, it can, it can thenbecome a community-wide thing.
And my advice would be startwith those small things.
So let's, let's talk aboutschools for example.
Start with one thing, like,okay, we want our school to be
plastic free, you know, singleuse plastic free mm-hmm.
And that can start with anindividual, but it can spread to
(14:21):
the whole school.
They can connect with schoolsacross the globe, like
connecting with people like kidsagainst plastic.
Um, they can see the actionsthat other people do and, and
from there it can build and youknow, they can write letters to
decision makers and, and itstarts with a small individual
action, but it becomes groupaction and then it becomes
community wide action.
Mm-hmm.
So that would be my, my mainpiece of device.
(14:44):
It is start small, but, but youknow, be persistent.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (14:48):
Yeah.
You have to start somewhere andyou have to be realistic, don't
you as well.
Exactly.
Okay.
My last question then is a bigone,
Um, you and I have spokenseparately.
We've both got daughters at diffdifferent ages and actually
learning, um, in differentcountries as well being schooled
in different countries.
But in an ideal world ingeneral, what would education
look like to you?
Ooh,
Harry Waters (15:08):
Rebecca Durose-Croft (15:10):
You can take a breath and have a.
Harry Waters (15:11):
Yeah, so looking at a broader sense rather than
just the, you know, thesustainability side of things.
I, I do think that it should beintegrated as its own subject
in, in classes, of course.
Um, but I think we need to stepaway from the, the very
traditional, you know, exam,exam-based classes.
I know here in Spain it's sofocused, a child's ability is so
(15:35):
focused around the score theycan get in an exam.
And, and we know for a fact thatthat's not how somebody is
intelligent.
You know, that yes, people areintelligent in so many different
ways.
And so there needs to be farmore project-based learning and
inquiry-based learning in ourclasses.
And that leads on perfectly tothe environment and
sustainability and, you know,cross-curricular studies.
(15:58):
If, if you have a project about,let's say, going plastic free in
your school, that can go acrossall your different subjects, um,
and your students can learn, itcan integrate learning in all
these different classes.
Teachers will work bettertogether as well.
And it won't be as stunted as itis now.
I mean, at the moment studentsgo to maths class, they sit
there for an hour, they'rehammered with sums, and then
(16:19):
they go to language class wherethey're hit there and they're
hammered for an hour withsomething different.
Which, you know, I don't knowbecause I'm not a language
teacher, uh, of, of the Spanishlanguage that is.
But yeah, so I think integratingas many classes together as
possible, more project basedlearning would be, would be
fantastic.
And, and far fewer exams becauseit's just something so wrong
(16:43):
about seeing exam stress in aseven year old that.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (16:47):
Oh, gosh.
Harry Waters (16:47):
Yeah.
It's just not really okay.
And yet it reminds me of a fewyears ago when my daughter was
really nervous about going toschool because she had an
English exam.
Um, now my daughter's bilingual,so
been the nerves there, but, butthey were so, you know, fewer
exams, more projects, more fun,more creativity, basically.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:08):
Oh, I couldn't agree more, Harry.
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
That was such an interestingdiscussion.
Should we end by you?
Could you let the listeners knowwhere to go to, to get those
fantastic resources fromRenewable English?
Harry Waters (17:20):
Oh, of course.
They can come towww.renewableenglish.com.
Um, or they can, they can findRenewable English on almost
every social media
Um, we we're on LinkedIn,Facebook and Instagram.
Um, we've tried TikTok, but, um,
takes up a lot of memory on ourphones, it also takes an awful
(17:42):
lot of effort to, to try and becool
Um, we're not, we're not quiteat that level yet.
So yeah, at Renewable English,um, across social media or
Renewableenglish.com.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:52):
Wonderful.
Thank you Harry.
Harry Waters (17:54):
Thank you so much for having me, Rebecca.
It was an absolute pleasure andI hope to speak to you again
very soon.
Rebecca Durose-Croft (17:58):
For more podcasts from Westchester
Education Services.
Just search Westchester Words onSpotify, apple, or Google
Podcasts, or you can find us onour website.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.