0139 ckwade

ckwade is the Software Engineering Intern at Channel 3 who has already made her mark by coding up a "From Series You Love" module that takes games you rated 5 stars and grabs other highly rated games from the same series that you haven't interacted with yet.

Candace comes on the show to chat her three games: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Undertale, and The Sims.

You can find all of Candace's links at channel3.gg/ckwade

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Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Channel 3. Is the future
welcome crew to what are your 3AChannel 3 podcast that's going

(00:32):
to really see if it's voice can make it through not only this
episode but the episode we're recording tomorrow.
It's going to be a real, real wild ride.
But that and I'm sorry that's I'm supposed to say, you know,
three games, Channel 3 community, all that.
I'm Dan Ray's here. Yeah, Ray, go ahead.
Do the do the thing. What's going on, people?
Two nights guest is Dan. Dan, is this our, is this our

(00:55):
first like official official intern or at least like website
intern at least, right? The thing I I was worried about
is you're gonna ask if we have the hazer, technically.
No. Possibly.
Our first personal coding internhere on Channel 3.
Joel posted about it. It is CK Wade Candace.

(01:18):
Hi, Candace. Hello, thank you for having me
on the show. We're excited to have you here.
I, I have to say, for anyone that did not see Joel's post,
Candace made a little put a little code on the site and oh,
my monitor just turned back on by itself.
That's a separate thing. I, I don't know, it's recorded
about my ordeal. That's.
Not even making the post credit,it's just 15 minutes of him

(01:39):
trying to tinker with his monitor while I was buying time.
It turned, it turned off, it turned off again.
It's going off and on. It's not fixed.
I'm gonna that's a separate thing.
So Candace coded a little cool thing on the site where the site
pull basically the games that you played you like, you post
them out and it says, hey, have you tried these games that you
also like? So I did it, and it's just every

(02:03):
time I click on it, because I'veclicked on it different times to
see how it changes and whatnot, and it's nothing but a constant
reminder that I haven't finishedthe Kingdom Hearts series.
And I mean, it's accurate. Let me tell you.
I clicked it. And every time I get every game
I look at, I was like, yeah, yes, I know.
No, that happened to me too. I saw it and I was like, wow, I

(02:23):
haven't played any of the classics and I need to.
What did you get hit with? Wait, just what did you get hit
with while we're here? Me.
Yeah, you. Did.
This you answer for your crimes.One of my like well I've rated a
ton of not a ton some of the different Zelda games, but I,

(02:45):
I'm pretty sure Joel posted about this like last week or
within the past week about how he's like not super into like
the original Zelda games and I have yet to play them.
But I have played the beginning of Twilight Princess and as
someone who has been spoiled by modern graphics, it is a

(03:11):
mentality shift to play those games I would say not.
Not saying that they're not amazing, because I know the
storylines are, but the UI is rough.
Is that the Wii Twilight Princess on the.
Yeah, Twilight Prince of the Wii.
It's the first Wii one also, so it's it's a lot rougher on the

(03:33):
controls than by the time they get the Skyward Sword especially
so. It also doesn't, it also doesn't
fit with the entire Wii aesthetic.
Like the Wii came out, I was like, look how happy we are.
And we, you know, we, we know wehad this cube before, but now we
have the Wii and the family. Link was the one that went
backwards in that regard, like it was a cartoon in one of the
Game cube and like no, we we we got the gritty, the demo reel we

(03:55):
showed you for the game cube. We got it for real this time.
I. Have put a real dark game on
this family console that they put out.
Yeah, which is weird 'cause it's, well, I guess other Zelda
games have been dark, like Majora's Mask, but I don't know,
like not all of them. So that was an interesting
choice. Is there, is there one You said

(04:16):
all right, I have to actually godo this one now.
I mean, I like every every single Zelda fan has played
Ocarina of Time and I still haven't so.
Yeah, this is I, I wish you could say we were a pro Nintendo
64 podcast, but I think we're officially, we love it, but like

(04:36):
now it's OK. Yeah, you.
Can find the 3DS version. Actually.
The 3DS version played pretty nicely, as a matter of fact.
Yeah. That's all I need.
That's all I'm asking for is like a few slight tweaks to how
all the buttons map and everything.
I'm not even saying change the graphics, I'm just saying make
it a little bit easier to walk my little character around.

(05:00):
Can you map the buttons on the Nintendo 64 online?
I only learned like I, I, I did my first button mapping while I
was playing Tooroc the other day, trying to see if I can make
Target work for Jamie. And I was like, oh, I, I, I
mapped the button successfully. It was I felt.
I felt young. I they did send some updates so
but I haven't tried it so I don't know if.

(05:21):
It might be worth it online might be worth it.
I don't. Know, I don't know if you can on
'cause I was trying to play it on Switch on the Switch online,
I don't know if you can there. Yeah, I don't know.
I that's I have not tried to remap but the GameCube I mean
the 64 needs remap that's that. Yes.
Yeah, especially that the the game that for that one and the
game that I love, but it's almost not playable, which is is

(05:44):
Starfox 64. It's almost not playable because
you need combinations of C buttons and they try, they try
like make it up, but it's not, it doesn't feel right playing
with a, playing with a pro controller.
And it's very upsetting, 'cause I, you know, I love Star Fox 64,
but I can't, like, naturally backflip my, my, you know,
Starship. My 12 hour did it just fine, but

(06:06):
OK Ray, that's cool. OK, I'm.
Sure. What are the new Gray buttons?
What? Wait, what are the?
They were the. Yellow buttons with the Nintendo
64. They were arrow buttons below,
so on the right side. Of that I wasn't sure how to
answer that question. Your ABXY, you have your your
your 4 letter buttons on the on the 64, there were 4 yellow

(06:28):
directional buttons, much like you have on the left side of the
stick now, but they were on the right side that they're all
yellow that that is what makes the So if if you were to pick up
a Nintendo 64 controller, you'd probably be fine.
Or at least like I, muscle memory takes over and I'm good

(06:48):
to go. Mapping it onto modern
controllers. You would have to reorganize
everything manually. It does not translate well.
What is relatively? They map it to the right stick,
so you can do every individual Cbutton with the right stick, but
Star Fox needs combinations of those 4C.
Buttons, right? OK, that makes sense.

(07:09):
So they tried to make up with itwith somebody like it's.
It does. Double, double clicking down
stick to do a a flip doesn't work very well for that.
But but you know what? Listen, we we're talking Zelda.
Let's let's go ahead and use that.
Let's let's roll back to that Zelda point.
We're going to transition into your into your three and we're

(07:31):
going to hit, we're going to hitBreath of the Wild.
That was your you alluded. This was actually when you were,
you were kind of brought into the fold by somebody with.
But yeah, Breath of the Wild that you're going to kick us off
with here. Yeah, well, I've always played
video games. I started with probably more
Game Boy, so I was born in 99, so whenever I was a kid, great,

(07:55):
great to. Hear.
I'm glad whenever I was a kid the games were like on Game Boy
Advanced at that point. Game Boy.
Color was just coming out as youwere, as you were born.
Yes, I think it was. Advance was still a little bit
off. I don't know, I want to
remember. It hurts.
It hurts but OK, I wonder. That's.

(08:17):
Great. I mean, I feel, I feel old all
the time when I'm only 26, so. Fair enough.
I'm peaking. I'm peeking over the horizon at
this point. But yeah, so I grew up playing a
lot of video games, computer games, Game Boy games.
I had an older brother and he loved video games.
So like, we would always play together, but I kind of felt out

(08:42):
of it. I would say from college to
first or second year out of college, Yeah, it's the dark.
It's the Dark Age that happens to many of us, myself included.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a phenomenon
probably. Like you just start having more

(09:03):
responsibility in less free time, and that's one of the
first things that goes makes sense.
But yeah, one of my friends was like, I really think you have
liked this game, just knowing how your brain works.
And like, I feel like I'm somebody who really appreciates
whenever small details are meaningfully put into a game and

(09:28):
then those details reflect a larger narrative.
That gets me every time. And that's how Breath of the
Wild was to me. Like just you, you and I.
I also had never played a real open world game before.
So both of those things combinedjust absolutely skyrocketed my

(09:52):
love video games from that pointon, I would say.
OK, so you you, you weren't big into Zelda and you had not done
open world and like, So what sold you on like, OK, I'm going
to go play Breath of the Wild. Then obviously the choice is to
go play breath of the wild. Like wait, what?
I was at my friend's house. He lived in Austin, TX at that

(10:14):
point and he was just like you. You just have to play this game.
So like, we're probably hungoveror something on a Sunday and had
nothing else to do. So I was sitting on his couch
and I just started playing this game.
And anybody who's played Breath of the Wild will know how it

(10:36):
starts. You start, spoiler alert by the
way, you start in this cave and yes, hungover from 1000 years
sleep or however long it was. And you just you don't even have
like a shirt or pants on at thatpoint.
Like you, you have no abilities,you have no skills, you can

(10:58):
barely jump. You can you have like no health
built up yet. And it's just a game where
slowly but surely you start building all of those things.
But it's more than that. It's more than just about
accumulating things like in a farming game or something, it's

(11:21):
about how you're doing. So which I love as well.
Like it's all tied into this bigsense of adventure.
And yeah, like, I think there's videos of the creators talking
about, they called it Breath of the Wild 'cause they wanted it
to represent just this experience of pure adventure,

(11:43):
kind of. So I don't know, like, I just
love it. I love how it takes you from
that cave to like, the typical hero's journey story where there
is a, you know, wise old man whoshows you the ropes of life and

(12:05):
then you just become more powerful.
But then you also see this otherstory unfolding, which is a
classic Zelda story of good first evil, but I don't know,
just the whole open world thing that like changed video games
for me, like in this second phase of playing them as an
adult. Night OK, so you so you even you

(12:28):
even came along a few years intothe switch then Oh yeah, by
math, a few years into the switch a few years after Breath
of the Wild came out. You're like, OK, I'm I'm in now
the music again, really good fora rough Sunday morning.
If that's the case. It's nice ambient soothing
music. So nothing nothing too harsh.
But you wake up from that that 100 year sleep, you walk out you
find a stick and go to fighting right away.

(12:49):
Like were you ready for? Were you ready to throw down and
fight like dodge and swing a stick at the Cobblins?
Like, was this, was this what you were prepared for?
I'm somewhere in the happy medium place of I like to
explore around, but I don't like, like, I'm not gonna look
at every single detail of everything either.
Like I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a very patient person, so I, I

(13:15):
like to see the details, but I, I need to know where the larger
story is going to. So I think I just followed the
main tutorial wherever. I don't remember what place on
the map it was, but and then after that I kind of started
exploring like, but that game, you just see so much on the map

(13:36):
that draws your attention, whichwas very intentional on their
part for my understanding. And it's interesting, they have
statistics that I've seen before.
Just out of curiosity on who chooses what direction to go in
first. And I think most people go to,
what's his name, like the water people, the fish people.

(14:01):
Oh, like once you clear the tutorial even that's the.
Yes, that's like where most people go.
What are they called? Zoras.
Yeah, Zoras. Zoras, Zoras Domain, that's
where most people go. So I was in that group.
But also I think that they were more pushing you to go there.
Like I remember there were lots of characters that nudged you.

(14:24):
So it's it's like I'm just so interested in that balance of
game designers asking the question of like, OK, yeah,
we're making an open world game.But like an open world game
isn't as fun if you just drop people into a 2D3D plane and

(14:45):
don't interact with them. Like the game has to interact
back with you, and then your interactions need to make you
feel like the game is seeing youand reacting to you.
Like my least favorite thing is whenever I play a video game and
I'm like swiping my sword at an NPC and they do nothing like I

(15:07):
want to see them. Or at least see them.
Count back. Yeah, at least get like, like
one of those types of things. At least like.
Yes. Give give me a cower or
something here. Yeah, like I, I that's what I
crave. So Zelda was just exactly that
to me. So did you have to then go buy

(15:29):
you didn't play this on? I mean, I assume you didn't go
buy a Wii U and play the, the Wii U version of the game.
I see. Did you have to like go get a
switch? Were you like, were you back in?
Like it's I'm, I'm back, we're, we're so back 'cause that's just
what happened. I literally went home and bought
a switch. Excellent.
Right, right back into it. So what?
So what was your place? Dog 'cause this is a it's a very

(15:54):
full world in Hyrule. There's a lot of stuff
happening. If you're looking, you can think
there's a lot of open nothingness, or you can stop and
talk and explore. Yeah, 'cause you know, it's,
it's, it's bugged me. I remember finally.
I just remembered like what happened with me.
I'm like, I did not go to the Zoras.

(16:16):
Where'd you go, Dan? I went to the Shika town, that's
where I ended up at. No, Yeah.
But after that which? Which?
I don't know if I it took me forever.
It. Took me forever to get to the
divine beasts like. I probably spent 100 hours
before I went and did divine beast like.
I That probably means you are someone who looks at every beat.

(16:38):
Dan looks. Dan looks at every.
That's insane. But like I, I was the opposite
side of you though, because like, I was travelling for work
a lot on my own and like the Switch had just come out.
So you had Mario Kart 8 and you had Breath of the Wild, and
there was only so much Mario Kart I could do by myself.
So like, I spent 220 hours just wandering Breath of the Wild and

(17:03):
like getting every Korox seed and everything else before I
finally just went and like, mopped up the divine beast.
Wow, yeah, I I think I finally did the desert first.
I I I did the desert first too. Really.
Had no idea that that's like thelast one.
Yeah, I could do further, I guess, yeah.
But but to your point though, because like there was stuff

(17:23):
trying to direct you to the like, it's really easy to find
your way to the Zoras, but I also kind of got lost or
distracted of like I don't want to go there.
Like I, I also kind of felt like, no, you want me to go, I'm
not going to go there. Like.
There was a little bit of that, too.
I definitely got caught up in inkind of the just the design of
the of the whole world. I mean, there's a there's a lot

(17:45):
of color. I mean, I got a horse and I
decided let me just ride around and I will just enjoy it.
And I ended up, I ended up in the desert just kind of
exploring and enjoying. You got a horse before you even
did a divine beast. Oh yeah, always get a horse
whenever you're ready. Yeah, just go find.
Just go jump on a horse or a bear.
Go get a bear, get a get a moose.
Who cares? Zora might have been Zora might

(18:06):
have been the last one I did. Yeah, I I might have ended up
doing it last. Was my last one, I know that.
That's easy, and I destroyed it because of it, because I had
done it so much already. I've, I've logged plenty, like I
logged probably as many hours after beating the game as
playing it because I like to know what happens and then I'm

(18:28):
like, OK, after I know what happens, I'll enjoy the details.
So I think it's just like there are different profiles of who is
playing this game and how their brain works around it.
So you're coming, you're coming out of your dark ages and you're
coming into like I, I'm literally picking a stick up the

(18:48):
fight, but not only am I pickinga stick up the fight, but this
stick breaks and my swords break.
Like how did you handle the, theweapons?
And just like no, everything breaks.
Like was that an adjustment for you or is that exciting?
Like what was that for you? I think I had played enough

(19:10):
video games to where that wasn'tnecessarily new.
Obviously games where your objects don't break, that's
nice. But also it makes sense for that
game, right? Because there's so many things
to collect. If you were hoarding things, you
wouldn't really get to experience all of the objects

(19:33):
and, you know, all of the different recipes you can make
with different foods because allthat storage space would be
taken up. Like, I don't know.
I, I think yeah, I like, I had AI, had a good foundational
understanding of how video gameswere played.

(19:55):
And like the magic box you enterand the rules that are kind of
like once you've played games a good amount, you dive into
versus people who haven't really, they are still figuring
it out like. But but it was fun because I
forgot how fun games are and howmeaningful and beautiful they

(20:19):
can be, which a lot of my friends don't understand cause a
lot of them don't play video games.
But to me, I don't like, I'm like, you watch TV.
Like don't you want to be one ofthe characters?
Like, don't you want to see whatwould happen if you if you did a

(20:40):
little sword swipe and see what one of the characters reacted
like? I'm just somebody like I think
I'm very curious. So video games extend extend
themselves to that sense of curiosity and seeing what would
happen. And you are?
Preaching to the wire, I, I 'cause I would say that I don't
have any. Like everyone I play games with

(21:01):
are are online. Like there's no one actually
around me that that plays games,at least not to any significant
level, you know, and you know, and the same thing though,
everyone was watching TVI was like, that's that's great.
I hope you enjoy your shows. But but my free time is, is
playing something like this. This is what I want to do.
Like you're right. It's just interacting, being

(21:22):
part of the story. It it's, it's like it.
It just feels, it's just fun. I agree.
It makes me wonder like what do I, I feel like you have to
almost like you grew up playing them and now you play them or
you didn't grow up playing them and now you don't.
But I know that's reductive like, but I I feel like that is

(21:44):
generally the case with the people I've seen.
All right, having a side question now.
Just based on the Dark Ages piece, what was like the one of
the last games you played beforebefore you hit that phase?
That is a listen again. I will say that your exact spot
was same place that happened to me.

(22:05):
I think it was the same place that happened to Ray too.
You're not alone that in the dark.
But do you remember what one of the last games you played was
like? I'm just curious.
Oh yeah, definitely one of the games that I've told you all in
my top three, which makes another good.
OK. All right.
Which one do you think it is? Hold, hold that.

(22:27):
Hold that question for later then.
Oh, I think it's, I think it's the third game.
Yeah, it's the third one, I think.
Absolutely. It's absolutely the third game.
It can't be the second one. Mathematically, it just can't be
the second. One, it's the third game because
it doesn't even. It's because it doesn't fit in
with everything else that's happening.
Correct. I even wrote it.
I I even write about that say like where, where is this
coming? From yeah, the math.
The math one too doesn't work out, sorry, but OK.

(22:50):
Yeah, I put a pin in that. Everybody just remember we're
coming back to that. But anyway, any favorite gear
cause like this is a game where you can, you can kind of do some
different gear. I know I was preferential to one
particular style myself, but that's my my gameplay style.
Did you change gear based on environment?
Did you have a favorite? Like what a default you would go

(23:11):
to as far as like your outfit orweaponry.
I'm not somebody who like I willI, I, I haven't had the time to
just sit in breath of the wild and like Max out all of my
rupees to the point where I can buy whatever I want,
unfortunately. But being like on a moderate,

(23:40):
moderate level of playing the game, I would say gear like I
loved the drudos. That was my number one place.
So I would just file the sand gear to go walk around and not
get burned and stuff. And also the Gorons are amazing
as well. Those are my two favorite Zelda

(24:01):
races, I guess. Nice.
Yeah, I, I, I. Was Dan walks around like a
ninja and everything. Yeah, it was stealth gear.
Like, yeah, they didn't even need to wait for me to say, do
you know I was running around that chica stealth gear.
So I'm. I'm silently wandering the tall
grass and murdering things from a distance.
So yeah. That's fair.
Well, I guess those are they faster.

(24:25):
The, the, the gear usually like,yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's
quieter than anything with the Sheiki.
So, so your stealth is a lot stronger.
You're a lot harder to detect. And most games I play stealth
Archer that I, I, I turned into a stealth Archer with a lot of
Breath of the Wild. So it was no different, no
different in that regard. Of course, when I went to like

(24:47):
the Goron city, I had to put on the fire gear of course.
But now whenever, whenever I left my own devices, it was it
was stealth gear. So.
I feel like being a stealth Archer would be really good in
Tears of the Kingdom because youcan customize all of your arrows
to specific purposes. Spoiler alert, it was.

(25:07):
I used way more arrows in Tears of Kingdom than I did rather
while. All right, so you you.
You kind of you kind of came to my last question on this because
I I guess your your answer's kind of like no, probably back
into gaming, but like what? What are your tears of the wild
thoughts? I mean tears of the Kingdom
thoughts. Excuse me.
Uh oh, that was. A.

(25:32):
That was a. Deep exhale picked up on the
microphone there. That's that's good.
That's good stuff. No, no, no.
I I, I really liked it as well. Not as much.
That's the short answer. The longer answer is, you know,
like the feeling of when you like get your license for the
first time and you can go anywhere you want and then the

(25:56):
next time that you get another car, it's fun, but it's not the
first time. That's exactly how I would
describe tears looking. That's a little too similar for
me. That's a popular sentiment
you're not alone in. It yeah, I'm.
Not with you. I'm not with you, but it's a
popular sentiment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(26:18):
Well, also, I'm just not someoneI don't go hard on the crafting
and that's I think something that Tears of the Kingdom really
did so. Definitely lean into it for
sure. An entirely different kind of
crafting. It was entirely different, yeah.
But yeah, that, yeah, I, I do not.

(26:38):
I don't have the imagination to build half the stuff that I saw
someone built a giant Kitty thatare scooping, launched, launched
an army of the Cobblins into thesea to drown.
Like, I, I never would have thought of that.
Like, I can't do that. Oh.
No, my creations were very simple.
I was like, I just, I just need to get over here.
Like if I need to connect a bunch of sticks together then
then so be it. That's all.

(26:58):
Two rockets and a glider, That'sall I did.
That's right. Again, I'm not a very patient
person. Like I just I, I like the idea
of making all that stuff, but then it takes so much time.
Then you got to like Orient the rocket the right way and then.
Even the simple things. If you glue it the wrong way,

(27:20):
you got to shake the console so that it'll come off then.
Like I found it a bit tedious. I guess there were things that I
feel should have been consideredin the UI to make the crafting
more fun and easy. You know what, I feel like they
did consider it, but you have togo so late into the game, yeah,

(27:42):
to find, like, blueprints. Yeah, that's.
The issue it took it it. Takes a little long.
Yeah, it takes too long to get your.
Blueprints. I would agree with that.
Let let's let's. Want what I want now.
That's fair. Well, let let's move Speaking of
deferred gratification and what you want now, I guess, I guess

(28:06):
that's a segue into Undertale ina way.
So your, your second game you brought up here is Undertale.
So we will we will firmly call this one not your, not your pre
dark ages game. Correct.
So. So how so?
OK, so this is my entire question.
Framing changes now. So like, how'd you get into this
1 then? This one was, I had always heard

(28:32):
of Undertale, like a lot of cultclassic games.
Undertale was my girlfriend's best friend.
Like loved this game. So she kept telling me to play
it. And I was like, OK, And actually
the friend who introduced me to Zelda also told me to play it.
He like sent it to me as a gift and was like, you have to play

(28:54):
it. Like here it is, I'm giving it
to you. Just play it.
You didn't. Know a lot about you, just kept
hearing Undertale. And I didn't.
Know. I didn't know why it was great.
Yeah. I didn't know what made it
special yet. I just thought that people were
like, the characters are cute and I was like, but I didn't

(29:16):
understand yet. So yeah, I, I tried it during
the same trip whenever I tried Breath Wild and I didn't
understand 'cause I had only gotten into like the have you
played it, by the way? Yes, those are two wildly
different games. Yeah, 2.

(29:39):
No. I think that they're so similar
in so many ways. Like I feel like it's the
unexpected element, which I love, and both of them very much
have that. There, there's definitely
unexpected. I I don't think you have the
exploration in the same way in that regard.
It's it's a, it is a much more linear game, but what you do
with it is. You're exploring your.

(30:03):
You're still exploring your age and your soul, your mortal soul.
But yes, I, I really just started playing it this year,
actually. And how do you feel about
spoilers on this podcast? This this game is old enough

(30:24):
that talk all about it. You're fine.
OK, wait, we're. We're beyond statute of
limitations as far as I'm concerned.
OK, I agree. So yeah, once I had gotten deep
enough into the game, like past tutorial and everything, which
somebody told me that that was for tutorial, which I should

(30:46):
have known, but wow, that blew my mind.
I miss all those references. I do too.
Every game. I know.
Yeah, I, I, but that makes them so rewarding whenever you were
in that. But yeah, so I think I got to

(31:09):
maybe like 30 minutes after the tutorial ended and there's the
mannequins that you can interactwith.
And for whatever reason, I decided to attack the mannequin.
And then that like, deeply affected the game.
And I was like, why does this game care so much that I either,

(31:29):
I don't remember if I just killed or killed or attacked,
but Flawee came up, which if anybody's listening who hasn't
played this game, Flawee is not as he seems.
He's kind of this weird ominous creature of this underworld
where basically what happened was he was like, he, he shows

(31:53):
himself as very positive and he like he's trying to help you
navigate this new world. And then he was like, I know you
did. I was like, what, what did I do?
And it was the game was mad at me that I had attacked this
mannequin. Which again, if you're somebody
who has played video games in the past, like you kind of just

(32:16):
like violence is part of video games for a lot of it just just
'cause just cause. So the fact that the game was
discouraging, that was really interesting to me.
And then that just became a theme.
And then at a certain point, like I like killed somebody else

(32:38):
in the game. And then I realized I didn't
have to like I could have taken one of the other actions where
you like talk to them or anything to move past a certain
which. Which isn't always made easy for
you either, to be clear. Like it's not like, oh, let me
just click over here and I couldhave just not killed them.

(33:01):
Like, no, it's there are literalhoops you have to jump through
in order to make that work. And there is trial and error for
that to happen as well. So it's not like, oh, I just
choose not to kill them. No problem.
I'm going to. No, you don't get to do that.
You have to also not die, which isn't as easy as it sounds
either. I'm pretty sure I did see an,

(33:24):
what's his name, Toby Fox, the developer of that game who he
was like, no, I didn't intentionally make it more
difficult and time consuming to not kill the characters, even
though that's kind of the point is like to see if you can do
that. Yeah, your Exp is minimal, your

(33:46):
hit points are minimal. Like it's it is a chant like the
game is trying to push you to like just go kill a minion.
That's fine. Just kill this rando, it's fine.
Like you have, it's a video game.
You have to kill this person, obviously.
Yeah, I, I, I could never have expected that it would have
started encouraging me to, to not choose violence, I guess.

(34:12):
But like, yeah, flawy. Like came up and I remember I
regretted, I don't know if you'll have experienced this,
but like I regretted killing someone.
So I like, I didn't save it and then I closed out of the game
and then I went back and he was like, I know you did.
And I'm like I he's supposed to.Know that now.

(34:34):
Yeah, he's like you. You thought that you could go
back, didn't you? And I was like, does this game
somehow record that I killed somebody even if I don't save
the game? And then it it still is able to
alter its storyline from there of decisions that I'm making?

(34:58):
Like that was mind blowing to mehonestly.
Yeah, You're, you're out there trying to find.
I need a priest, a rabbi and an old priest and a young priest.
Get them in here now. I'm concerned.
Yeah, You need you're you're you're this thing's possessed.
I'm concerned. Yes, it was wild.
Like I still am not over that honestly.

(35:18):
No, I just, I didn't have that. I, I, I, I went about it
differently, but that's pretty cool.
I didn't know that specific interaction happened that way.
That's awesome. So.
It was, it was weird, like I've never had a game real.
Like I felt very, what's more like when I like I felt very

(35:40):
like self aware that like wow, Ican't escape.
Yeah, exactly. So, so did you go through the
rest of the way? What?
So what was the rest of your playthrough then from there?
I tried to be good. Tried.
Tried being the emphasis. I think I was there was some

(36:00):
characters who was like, I don'treally care about you that much,
honestly. Like I guess they're the ones
who were like evil. But also in the game you kind of
start realizing nobody's evil. So it was just very, it was very
confusing while I was playing, but kind of in a good way, like

(36:23):
it extended itself to my curiosity of what was happening
because it, it just, it was the,the storyline is so not linear
either. And there's like different
routes that you can take that will affect all outcomes, which
is like any video game, but I don't know if it felt so

(36:46):
pronounced. There there are no, there are no
accidents that happened in this game.
There's nothing that wasn't thatwasn't considered upon building,
building the system on top of the system on top of the system
with this that like there were. There are consequences to all of
your actions, whether whether you know it or not, or whether
you try to save scum and go backand the game says no, no, no,

(37:07):
you're gonna do that. Nice try.
Wait, how did you all play it 'cause I'm curious.
I haven't really spoken to too many people about Undertill.
The minimal murder nobody of same thing just like nothing of
consequence like survived. I'm, I'm trying to go through
now, I keep trying to go throughand do the pacifist aspect of

(37:31):
it. Have you, have you gone through
and done that at this point? No, yes, no, I haven't done the
pacifist or the genocide route like I've just done the middle
of the road. Route.
Show us your file and prove you haven't done the genocide route.
I don't believe you. Hey man, what I didn't tell you,
did you? Have you have you at least read
about what happens with the genocide route?

(37:54):
Yeah, I have. Yeah, just just to be clear,
just so since we are talking full spoilers, like I have read
into it because I I don't have the hearts to do it to be clear.
Because like it's not only killing all of the quote UN
quote enemies, like you're killing everything you are
anything you see, you have to kill it.
And as reference like charactersare cowering from you, the the

(38:16):
interactions are entirely different.
But also like if you get throughthe game and kill everything,
your file is permanently marked,then the game's like you are
never being forgiven for this. It will permanently be marked.
You will never, you can't deletethis.
You can't do whatever. Like you're, you're done, you're
marked forever. You can try and do something
else now like it's never going to happen.
You will always have killed everything.

(38:38):
And you have that hanging over your head too.
So it's just I, I do, I, I my, my last thing with this, like we
got Joel to play because Joel was looking for a game and, and
like I was pushing him like go I, I, I still have to see what
is fool. Clearly he was impacted by it
because you saw the quotes and things that were like he was I,

(39:00):
I wouldn't say he was shaken by it or anything like that, but
like, Oh, you can see where things impacted him.
And I do need to get like a fullJoel download.
Or dissertation. On this I'll.
Call him right now, yeah. We Yeah.
Joel's up at 11:00 at night. This is perfect.
Perfect. Did Joel get in here any any
other parting Undertale thoughts?

(39:22):
Any for anybody who skipped ahead and skipped over the over
the spoiler side of things, whatdo you what's your selling point
for somebody who has not played Undertale at this point?
Get through the tutorial, because you won't realize why
the game is good until you've done that and a few hours after.

(39:45):
And if you like games that make you feel like somebody is
staring at you in the room whileyou're playing and judging you
morally and ethically for every decision you've ever made, you
should play this game. But in a good way.

(40:06):
My my final thought is like Sakurai had a dinner a few weeks
ago with game directors of just like various games.
Toby Fox was at that. Do you know, like I, I just, I
want to be in that room. I, I want to know what that
relationship is of, of just likeToby Fox in the room of like how
you know how low Japanese game developers left and right and

(40:29):
like he's, he's his face coveredover the dog picture.
Like I, I didn't, I didn't realize he's very private as an
individual, but like, I, I just want to know what conversations
were happening in that room because he is just somebody
who's on a different plane. Did you do Tulsa run at all?
Like that's that's still. Ongoing, yeah, not yet.

(40:52):
Yeah, I agree. I think like anybody who's a
solo, mostly solo dev like that or like small team, they, they
have different brains for sure. All right, then we go to game #3
here's the game. This, this is the game that just
did not fit in. And it feels like this was what

(41:15):
we were playing before, before we stopped playing games and
then came. Back to games.
It's The Sims. We have The Sims on the list
here. Particularly 3 and 4, right?
Sims 3, and this is probably themost of the metaphysical games

(41:37):
on the list. The Sims is a spiritual
experience. The Sims is a spiritual
experience. It's the first I'm sorry I've
I've heard The Sims described many ways I've never have not
heard it described it as a spiritual experience.
So not not an adventure, right Is we're not exploring, not a

(41:58):
storied RPG, but The Sims tell tell me about the let me.
This is my experience of The Sims cause my experience is my
wife who loved playing The Sims growing up but but I loved
playing. She loved typing in the code to
have lots and lots of money and and then just building a really

(42:20):
nice house. Like her thing was like, I just
really wanted to look good. I.
Tell you how you play The Sims. OK, well first I have to get a
buy in on why I think The Sims is a good game and it's because
it makes you realize like like what is the first thing you're

(42:41):
doing whenever you're like not you, but you're in a world that
kind of resembles ours, you knowwhat I mean?
Like The Sims, also like as a female gamer, that was a very
cultural experience for 12 year old middle school girls to like
we would have Sims sleepovers where we all brought our

(43:03):
computer and we played Sims until like 4 in the morning
eating snacks. What do a group of of what is
the play style of a group of middle school girls playing to
Sims all sorts of things and youplay it together at that time or
you all playing like your. Old We all play it on our
separate laptops, our own files,but we'd like look at each

(43:27):
other's and like, if somebody was like, I'm gonna try and
murder my SIM, we don't watch this.
Is already this is already taking a darker turn that I
thought it was I didn't even realize so so we're like putting
Sims in the in the swimming pooland we we.
Really misordered this game because I really want to go back
and say like WWTBTTFD like what would Toby Fox think in in the

(43:52):
midst of this? But go on.
Sorry, sorry, I just I'm. Calling to you.
This is why my brain was not trained to be a pacifist in that
video game. What was your original question?
I was wondering how what what the playstyle was at Sims
sleepovers 'cause I now I've also learned that that Sims
sleepovers is a thing. This this is something I I did

(44:15):
not experience this. Playstyle, I mean, you can do
anything you want. Like I feel like also whenever
you're 12, like you haven't donehalf the things that your Sims
can do, like you haven't, like you haven't driven a car.
Well, that was Sims 3, not Sims 4.

(44:36):
Unfortunate feature removal right there.
And like you haven't gotten married, you haven't had your
own house, you probably haven't kissed someone, which you can do
on the like. I don't know.
I think it's just this like to me The Sims is like if I had not

(44:58):
even like the perfect life because you can't create that on
The Sims. Like you can only do certain
actions that are laid out for you.
But like, I don't know, I feel like it's very telling, like of
who somebody is, like the first thing that they go to do on The
Sims. What's the first thing that you

(45:19):
go to do on The Sims? It depends.
It's depended on my era. I feel like whenever I was 12
probably like well definitely murdering people was fun.
That's. What's the most?

(45:39):
What's the most creative way? To oh, there's so many you can
watch crazy videos of people like finding new ways to and
there's also a death character which people don't realize, like
death embodied with the what's it called the.
Scythe. Yes, the scythe comes and you
can befriend Death like you can like, create a relationship that

(46:04):
will show up in your little repertoire of Sims relationships
with Death. You can marry Death in some
versions of The Sims, like againgoing back to while video games
in the 1st place. It's the attention to detail of
things that are reacting to the weird decisions that I make.

(46:25):
Do you have you played any recent versions of The Sims or
is this like a relic of the of the past for you?
The Sims 4 is the most recent and they also like just got
bought out which I've heard people have mixed reviews on.
I don't really know that much about that.
Yeah, I'm. I'm just gonna.
Yeah, we're gonna. Oh boy.

(46:46):
Who think I bought it? We.
Have to get into those things, EA yeah.
EA was bought out by the Saudis.That's all we're going to say
about. Oh, that's right there.
We're. Gonna.
That's all we're gonna say aboutthat.
And we're gonna. I don't even know anything about
that. I just know, like I hope they
keep making The Sims 'cause I do.
Hold your breath. That's funny, I forget.

(47:07):
But also I feel like other versions of like Sims like games
will exist forever and hopefullyget better and better like.
A couple questions burned recently, but I have a feeling
you're gonna see some things popping up now, yeah.
Yeah, and like with AI to like you can just make it more and
more personal, I guess, right, like you can.

(47:28):
I played on this game called Have you ever played the game
called Suck Up or seen it? It's really interesting.
It's this game where it actually, they use AI and PCs
that you talk to. So you're a vampire in this game
and the goal is to for you to try and get 30 of your neighbors

(47:51):
to let you into their house by using your voice.
And you speak to them and they're kind of different
archetypes. Like there's a grandma, there's
like a mafia guy, there's like askateboarder.
And so you talk to this AI person and you convince them why

(48:11):
they should let you into their house.
And it can get really funny. Like it'll, it'll say really
interesting things that you wouldn't necessarily expect.
This is a brand new game though yeah 'cause I'm looking at this
team right now like it just cameout October, October 1st.
I don't know if it was out in other places first, but Steam
just is saying like just got. Out there were some other places

(48:32):
last for this past year at least.
But yeah, like it's I'm very curious to see.
That was another point that I had written down.
So I don't know if you guys wantto get into that now, but I am
curious to see how immersive AI can make video games.
It's funny because that one seems like, you know, already a

(48:54):
lot more intuitive, you know, like it was that I, it was funny
that Fortnite made you able to chat with Darth Vader and
people, but I but that was so itwas so basic.
I haven't heard of that. Yes, you got to chat with Darth
Vader. Very simple.
He would, you know, his answers were pretty general on purpose.

(49:16):
Obviously based on what you said, some people got him the
curse and that and then Fortnite.
And worse. Yeah, and and worse.
Some people figure out how to get him to say some really bad
things and they had to fix that right away 'cause it just
somehow they weren't prepared for people to try and just, you
know, push, push him as much as they could.

(49:38):
Yeah, I feel like people will doabsolutely anything to break
something like. That yeah, absolutely.
So like so yeah, you're playing.So this is, would you say this
is more the type of game that like was how you got into

(49:59):
gaming, was it about like simulation games and games you
can kind of make things and makedecisions because then you came
back and now you now you're thisgrand adventurer.
Right is. This your original version of
gaming? Was it?
Was it like SIM gaming? No, my The Sims didn't come into

(50:21):
my life until I was like, yeah, in middle school, but I was
playing lots of, I guess other adventure kind of games before
then. All the Gameboy like kind of
Pokémon games, every Pokémon game.
So, you know, those are those are decision adventure games.
But so The Sims is really is, isalmost this like separate

(50:44):
anomaly kind of thing 'cause youhad some Avengers before,
Avengers after, and then you've got this like, but also like we
like The Sims, this is like it'sonly a little separate thing.
I've never really thought about it, honestly.
I yeah, I guess The Sims is likevery much.

(51:06):
I feel like The Sims is like a kind of video game that like
true gamers, they don't put respect on The Sims name like
they should. And the SIM though, like, I
don't know, I think it's different.
Yeah. Like it's different in that it's
not, it isn't quite as it's not really narrative at all.

(51:33):
It's you, you fully create the narrative.
It's not pushed in any way really at all other than basic
human needs that your Sims have.Like I have to go to the
bathroom or I'm hungry or I needto socialize.
You know what I mean? Like it's like a different set
of parameters of of what is driving the narrative forward

(51:56):
that you then work around in. The case of your Sims, they just
want to be LED out of the basement.
They just please live. Yeah, they're pretty hungry too,
I would say. Oh, I figured it is like.
It's it is very, it's really sandbox.

(52:17):
Yeah, it is. Right, but almost before it's
like it was sandbox, but it was like the IT was like people
sandbox as opposed to what you think of sandbox now as you're
building the world. And this was more you're almost
you're almost building your own little society.
It was like it's kind of first version.
Of I agree, yeah, I think like that was another part was like I

(52:38):
had only ever played games like Pokémon or you know, random
other small games, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle games, lots
of like Disney based games. And it is very like a A to B to
C And then The Sims came along in my life and I was like, I can

(52:59):
just do anything I want. Like I don't have to do
something specific to advance, which you still have to in Zelda
and Undertale and you don't likein The Sims.
Like you just exist and I guess that the gay men's if all of
your Sims die. I don't think that's ever

(53:19):
happened to me, though I've always kept at least one alive.
So that the race can continue. Exactly that's.
Amazing, but it's true. Like this is your, you are the,
you are the decider and the creator and, and and you know,

(53:39):
and here you are, you know, creating codes and an
engineering thing you brought, you have taken your gaming
passion and have and have made it into a real thing.
Dan thinks I'm a psychopath. You're kind of living.
You're kind of living the dream though.
My My series of questions for the following game are rapidly
changing. That's all I'm gonna say.

(54:01):
I. Well, here's the thing.
Right, I assumed. This was going his has just like
deer and whatever the meme is oflike the sudden offturn of the
highway is happening right now. Never.
Thought you're 12 and you're at those slim SIM sleepovers.
Like, what is your brother and his friends doing?
They're all playing Call of Dutylike they're all killing each
other. Anyway, that's just the point of

(54:23):
that game. But isn't it more fun if that's
not the point, Like it's kind? Of you really need to flip
Undertale in The Sims in this conversation, that's what I
that's what I've that's where mymind's going.
We needed to flip these two in the conversation you framed you
framed this in a in a counter intuitive way that makes it kind
of funny and and no one will know exactly how much I'm

(54:45):
laughing throughout the course of this conversation and is.
Understand. Now we understand why the
mannequins just got it immediately.
There is a. Muted Dan in the background,
just like holding his face and dying in the side here.
Oh, I'm, I'm going to I'm going to pull the RIP cord on this
one. We're going to we're going to
jump to your. Yeah.

(55:06):
We're just stands conversation I've ever had.
May may they rest in peace in their Potters feel they're all
buried in somewhere out there. That's just a statue of death
standing on a hill, smiling, looking down over a but anyway,
anyway, but so let's jump to your honourable mention number
one, I should say with that papers, please.

(55:29):
So you're you're you're you're standing guard.
You're you're taking care of theborder.
Have you played that game too? I, I have, I have tinkered.
I have not gone through the fulllike I, I just kind of played it
a little bit. I will say that I what's the
phrase I'm I'm about to say? I am entirely derailed by the

(55:50):
last game still for this portionof the conversation.
Look, anyone who's played The Sims for a long enough time is
going to be like, I feel you girl.
They will know. I'm not judging because that was
a game I just like I I the original Sims.
I just couldn't get in and I waslike I was a in the 90s like SIM

(56:12):
Ant SIM copter, SIM city, SIM City 2000, like SIM farms, SIM
hotels, SIM now or whatever, like I was I was there.
It was like, well, I guess I have to get this game and I it
just wasn't for me. It's and it's OK.
I'm I I'm so many people have been happy with it.
That's good. I'm happy for them.
I just I was SIM everything else.
I was all over the Maxis front. So but but but but that's not

(56:37):
that's not. Papers please.
I had those CDs too, those SIM. Cities I do have papers please.
So what? What brought that in the
honorable mention realm here? Again, I mean, I guess the crux
of all video games is like seeing how your interactions

(56:59):
with the world affect the world around you, right?
Like I think that's the first game where I felt like a gravity
I would say like for people who haven't played papers, please
like it's it's a fake kind of pseudo USSR.

(57:22):
Arshtotska. Yes. 1982 yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's. Like Eastern Bloc?
Yeah. It's got an Eastern bloc vibes
with the. Yes, end of the Soviet.
Era. Your entire job is you're an
immigration officer and like, you're essentially looking at

(57:44):
people papers to see if you can let them in.
But then you start getting hit with all of these moral
questions of like, oh, like my family is gonna die if you don't
let me cross. But then you you might get
killed. So it's, I don't know, like it
was a game that not that a videogame could ever reflect the true

(58:08):
weight of people who have to make decisions like that, but it
was interesting and like, I lovehistory too.
So it's like interesting thinking about, you know, like,
what was it really like? I don't know.
And I love like the style of it too.

(58:28):
And I loved that there were moments that were funny, like
whenever there's humor to break up a a game with a lot of weight
and feelings, I think that that,you know, brings things into
context too. So I yeah, I've just never

(58:49):
played a game that I felt reallylike hit me like that it.
It's not a game that passes judgment either necessarily.
Like, you know, like you said, there's, you know, do I look the
other way for this? There's times where you're
offered bribes. There's times where like you're

(59:09):
flat out told someone's going tolike we're going into to execute
a coup and, and we're overthrowing things like, and
all of it leads to kind of like different outcomes and endings
and interactions that happen through the through the course
of it too. So it's that that same kind of
like, OK, what you're doing is impacting further decisions down
the line. And like you're not, you're not

(59:31):
faced with the same things twice.
And also it's a matter of like some of the details too, of like
what's sticking out for you and what isn't too.
Just kind of curious like first play through versus second play
through versus like third, like what, what, what's impacting
you? What are you doing to try
something different That's kind of curious?

(59:52):
Yeah, honestly that in that aspect it's not too different
from Undertale. I would say like on the crux of
you can make decisions that generally are self-serving and
maybe you turn out in a better position for that, but others

(01:00:16):
don't. And then like on the flip side,
but like you can sacrifice yourself.
For others and you may, you may still end up in the game like
dead, but like it's not going totell you what happens.
That's the whole question. Like what would you do if you
didn't know? There's a much more light

(01:00:40):
hearted version of this with God.
What's it called? It's not called Helen your
secret neighbor. Helen neighbor.
What is the There's a game whereit's, you have to like identify
whether someone's a monster coming into your building
basically, or something like that.
There are a few like copycat games that have popped up that
are a little more light hearted as opposed to an exercise in

(01:01:00):
empathy too. Because.
That that's what this one, this one is an exercise in empathy
and and a little bit of like a pseudo history of like how these
things all happen. But now they're definitely this
is it was definitely an interesting game.
I'm not always, I'm not always the most visual novel kind of
guy and I it was kind of an off day.

(01:01:21):
I think whenever it was, I triedit to because it was one of
those like I have to try this game like it's coming up, it's
coming up, it's coming up type of things too.
So I probably take another run at it at some point.
Just just play through it a couple times and see see what
happens with my pile of bride money that I sit on top of.
Yeah, I would say so. Whenever you want a game too,

(01:01:41):
like the, the mechanics of it are very repetitive.
And sometimes I want to play a game like that because I don't
want like I don't have the energy to like explore a lot.
You just like want to stamp somepapers.
I don't know. It's it's kind of calming in
that way. I thought it's going to bug me.

(01:02:05):
I I got to figure out that game,what it what?
I'm going to just jump in later like I, I, I know Commander
Nick. He's the one who recommended.
I just can't remember what that game is called.
I'll figure it out. I'll let you know eventually.
Someday down the line, you'll know.
Yeah, you should. Yeah, definitely find it.
All right, so we have now the Jackpots Murder Party, which

(01:02:28):
just fits in so far. It's all it's all coming
together and it's all Jack Box murder party.
So is there is there a dedicated, A dedicated group
that you play this game with or was there like a special?
I would say, so I would say likemy best friends from home, we

(01:02:51):
played a, we were in in the group of people who played Jack
Box extensively during COVID too.
So like Jack Box and not even I just put Murder Party 'cause
that one is not the most murderous.
That's not what I like. But I don't know, like I think
like this, the branding of all Jack Box games are so unique and

(01:03:16):
that one is just funky. Like if you look at the intro
videos, they're just kind of weird, like American Horror
Story style, strange things thatare.
It's like why? How did this make it in?
But then it's kind of like I like seeing like a rubber
chicken on my screen. Why not?

(01:03:38):
So I don't know, like I just andI like, I like the idea of
making something that's been done for thousands of years,
like trivia, like new and addictive.
I think that's a really interesting question to ask in
game design is, is exactly that.Like what would make somebody

(01:04:04):
want to answer questions about literature a lot more than just
straight up asking them? Like I think I think that's an
that's something that I think about a lot.
Definitely is like what And I'm I'm like in school right now
too. So I'm like, it's interesting
thinking about what makes knowledge and in video games

(01:04:31):
like advancing from that knowledge interesting to learn
to the user. And So what what is it about
Jack boxing you think makes it so interesting to is it just the
fact that it's that it's games and they and they put funny

(01:04:51):
pictures on the screen and and then they toss the question up?
Or is there like, is, is there something that you noticed in it
that you say, Oh, this is like, this is such a cool, purposeful
design of the game? Like what?
Like what? What do you see when you're
playing it? I think it's all about who
you're playing with. Like I think you're just like
seeing other sides of people, even if they're like your best

(01:05:13):
friends. Like I'm literally play this
game with like my best friends who I've known since I was 2 and
6 and 12. Like I, I know them like we've
had the same conversations forever and ever and we always
will. But like whenever you're

(01:05:34):
prompted to act like you're a ghost and the only way that
you're going to be your friend is if you answer 3 trivia
questions correctly. Like people just start thinking
in a different way and showing, showing that thought outwardly.

(01:05:56):
And I love seeing that. Like, I love thinking about
like, yeah, like I I you never know.
There's always this other layer of who people are when they do
play video games that is so different from how we present
socially. And I like seeing that.
This is why I have like 4 different versions of Cards

(01:06:18):
Against Humanity. Absolutely, yeah.
It's the same with board games for sure.
Do you have any any mini game that stands out to you?
They're like, oh, I love when this one comes up because it's
just funny. I do like the murder party one.
I really like the drawing games are always fun but they can get

(01:06:44):
a little old after a while. I would say Quiplash is fun.
I like the I do like the word based games you.
Don't want to have to work rightbecause like, it's like we're
playing a party now I have now Ihave to work to draw a picture.

(01:07:06):
Well, it's like I don't, I feel like I can be less creative with
images than with like because again, it's like the whole like
problem of having a blank canvas.
Like there's a whole blank canvas, but if there's only 8
words I can choose from, I can probably make a kind of funny
sentence out of them that. Makes sense.

(01:07:29):
All right, so now, now we go to the future.
And I had to. I needed to read and understand
what the future was because Dan typed it in and I was like what?
Because the future's not a game.The.
I googled it, I googled it and Iwas like, oh, is this like a
weird game that's coming out that I totally missed?
But no, you don't we you're not looking towards a future game.

(01:07:50):
You're looking towards the future of gaming in general and
say what AI? What are AIMPCS?
What are they going to bring to gaming in the future?
How are they going to affect gaming?
So do you have do you have a wish list?
Do you like? Do you like?
I wish an AIMPCMPCS would do this.

(01:08:14):
Definitely. Also I feel like that makes it
sound so much more like officiallike I'm just like I have.
I will have asked myself like, is there these chat bots who can
act like personas? It's only a matter of time until
that's integrated into video games to make them more
immersive. As far as a wish list, like

(01:08:39):
seeing how immersive a video game can get, I think is a
question. I'm very interested in seeing
how how that develops. There's this, I don't remember
his name, but it's a YouTube whohas modded Skyrim to where he

(01:08:59):
has developed different ChatGPT personalities for each of the
MPCS and each of the main characters of Skyrim.
And he will like talk to them and go on weird quests with
them. And it's so fun to watch.
Like I, I just think, yeah. And like, there's more you can

(01:09:20):
do with AI like in PCs and videogames too.
So I don't know. I just feel like it will change
things. But like with many AI questions
like we don't really know how yet.
It's so funny that you went to Skyrim because that like when I
see a question like that, I always think of Skyrim.

(01:09:41):
Really. Or I just, I always go back to
playing Skyrim on the Xbox 360 when it was, you know, first
came out and, and just thinking this, what an amazing feature
because they, they pushed it to the deal.
Like you'll never run out of quests, like the game will never
end. And obviously, you know,
eventually it could only do so much.
And the quests are always like, now go back to this town and

(01:10:03):
it's like, you know, 50 of this thing get.
Me a book. Right, but it but it was it was
this crazy idea that you're likeyou'll never finish the game
ever. Someone will always come and and
start something new for you. And I always felt like this is
life changing and it, it almost feels like sometimes you don't

(01:10:24):
like that idea didn't get pushedforward even though, even though
Skyrim has been released a million times, every single
console that ever comes out. And it's like they had this bold
idea and it feels like no one. I, I can't think of someone
else. I'm like, oh they took that idea
to the next level but it seems. It's some people think it's like

(01:10:47):
with Alden ring. No.
I haven't played that game. Either I don't I don't see it.
I feel like Alden ring has very clear like here's 6 endings and
you have to go do this specific you've you've finished the game,
you that you can end the game. It's funny because the other

(01:11:08):
thing I thought of because I I saw your review of Hawk Horse
legacy and thought this entire podcast.
I understand why you rated the way you did, because how was
like I see is very the MPCS don't really interact with you.
They're very specific. They do, but you can't, you
know, you can't hit a random person with a spell just to be

(01:11:30):
funny like they. It doesn't even.
They don't even. Yeah, they just don't do
anything. Yeah, they don't do anything.
Exactly. No, no, I I totally get it.
Right wants them to cower more in fear as he's about like.
Recovering and someone that loved it, someone that loved
Hogwarts Legacy. I I loved everything about the
game. I wish I could have hit a couple

(01:11:50):
more students with spells. Yeah, I would have taken it to.
That next level for me. Hogwarts Legacy was like I'm I'm
also playing it on the switch, which I understand the graphics.
Everything is like considerably slower and worse on there, but

(01:12:11):
you know, like I don't really want to play.
You know, which is weird becausePapers, Please is such a
prescribed narrative and so are so many other games that I've
loved. But it's like, if you tell me
it's open world and then you pigeonhole me into this story,

(01:12:31):
that's like kind of interesting.But also it doesn't tie into
like the world of Harry Potter that we know.
And that could have been really cool, but it kind of felt
prescribed to me. Like, I don't know, it just
didn't, it didn't scratch the itch that I thought it was going
to, I think. Everything you're saying is

(01:12:52):
totally fair because I agree they said open world, but it was
slightly it was like what open world was 15 years ago.
Yeah, exactly. It was way more Dark Souls 3.
There is a clear path that you should take kind of thing.
It's like, yeah, you can. You can fly around gradually and

(01:13:14):
you see all the stuff and that'snice, but you're going to come
back and do the story in this order eventually.
Right. Yeah, There's got to be the
perfect balance, I think, to brand it as open world.
For sure. All right, Candace, this is the
point where we come to a quest, a question from the Channel 3

(01:13:35):
history books that we pick for you to discuss.
This is the one thing we don't give somebody warning about what
we're going to ask. And you know, first of all, I'm
just, I'm going to ask the question.
And then while you ponder the questions response, I'm going to
share some thoughts and observations so you can have
time to think about it. You are Bowser's ghost Raider
and he needs a new excuse to lure Mario to the castle.

(01:13:56):
What does your note to Mario say?
And I, I just want everyone to have context for this while she
debates what Bowser's note will say to Mario that I generally
have like 3 or 4 quest quest questions that I've pulled that
I have like set aside. I'm like, I kind of see how the
conversation goes. And I, I want to kind of, I want

(01:14:17):
to kind of, you know, have a, have a couple of avenues of
options of what type of quest question I'm going to ask him
luring Mario to his doom just really felt like an appropriate
question to go for after. I'm sorry, I kid, I kid.
But but no so so So what do you what, what's your note to Mario
say to come to come to the castle to trap?

(01:14:42):
I'd have Bowser say I miss you. That's it.
Just yeah, like. Yeah, I know.
That's all it would take. I think it would work.
Like Mario dropped the ACT, we're in love.
Like, you know that this has been a will they won't they for
so many years. See, everybody thinks it's
always Peach wanting to be with Bowser.

(01:15:05):
It's actually you're probably right.
It's Bowser trying to spend timewith Mario.
I feel like that see again, I itit's like the things that are
unexpected are funny to me. Like that would be crazy.
Can you imagine the next Super Mario game?
They're like it's it's Mr. Marioand Bowser.

(01:15:31):
I would love if Peach if Peach ends I got nothing antagonist
like what is like when is Peach finally start rolling with an
iron fist The snack Kingdom. He probably becomes like the the
the villain in this then. I, I I'm kind of waiting on it.
Yeah, at some point. She's been ruling for a long

(01:15:53):
time. You tell me no one, no one's
questioned her role over Kingdom.
Where's that papers please? Hey, no, we're.
Trying to learn the mushroom king.
Oh damn, it's good answer. It's a good answer though, Ken.
Good answer. Good answer.
Yeah, where's the utopian Mario World?

(01:16:14):
I'm ready for it. Yeah, I agree.
Last question is what's been your favorite feature on Channel
3? You can say the one you made.
It's a loud but you know. This is not a feature.
This is super corny answer but like genuinely the community is

(01:16:34):
very cool. I have not seen that really
anywhere else. Like it is a symbiotic
relationship between the community and the people
directly supporting the creationof Channel 3.
And I think that's how all online community should strive

(01:16:58):
to be instead of crazy social media platforms that are just
trying to profit off of everything they can, which is
fair, but I don't know. Like it reminds me of like old
Internet days when that was likeforums were like kind of like

(01:17:19):
you just talk to people and thatwas it.
Like you didn't really try and like build your feet out or your
presence or anything like that. Like you're just just chatting.
The good old days. Dan, you know, I have you know
that that I have an analogy. I have a reference to the, to

(01:17:42):
the user, to the user site like us as opposed to the and to the
make money social media in pumpkin, in pumpkin pumpkin
farms went to, we went to two different pumpkin farms in the
past two weekends and one I love, I told my wife I love this
farm. Been there like 3 years now and

(01:18:03):
you just go there and you feel like this is a place that
everyone's just having a nice time, big kids section.
You go and enjoy. And I went to another farm and
I've told my wife we can't go anywhere 'cause it feels like
you paid to go in and then it's just like, and what else would
you like to pay? For and now.
You can go on this line and whenyou're done waiting on this
line, now you can go wait on this line and you can pay for

(01:18:25):
this and I'll and that's that's what I thought of with that
answer. There are lots of interesting
video essays on YouTube about this.
Like apparently Disney has done that to an insane proportion
over the years at their theme parks.
Like charging you not only for fast pass, but an extra $10.00

(01:18:48):
for the fast pass that you like.And I see that on.
I definitely do see that on social media where it's just
like more and more you're like you're paying with like your
attention to like explore pages are so addictive.
And whenever you go on the home feed of Channel 3, like, oh,

(01:19:12):
it's just like these people who wanted to share something about
a game that they played or, or just about their day.
Like it's none of it is design to keep you in an addictive
loop. And I'm I'm really grateful to
be able to be a part of something so cool like that.

(01:19:33):
And hopefully, you know, hopefully that is is what's
ahead. And maybe Sims 5.
I'm sorry, I'm, I'm just trying to let you down now.
That's not going to happen now. I guarantee you they.
They took on $20 billion in debt.
When they're assuming this does finalize, they're, they're

(01:19:54):
whacking everything. It's all going to die.
It's it's. Not good.
Dan, they got there's Dan. There's a lot of money out
there. They don't, it's not even real.
They don't even. They don't recognize.
Money's not real. Yeah, I know They don't
recognize. Numbers they got to do.
The version you'll the version you'll get of it will be
unrecognizable also, so don't. I'm much more positive, I'm

(01:20:16):
just. Going to say that's not my
neighbor before I forget. That's the game.
That's not my neighbor. Dan Finally 3.
Bucks on Steam. OK, I'll check that one out.
I'm much more positive on this. I think you're going to get Sims
5. You know what?
Yeah, 'cause. You're going to get sports, just
the sports games have to stay around too, like college
football. They got to do another one.
I'm excited to, I'm excited justto see what happens, man.

(01:20:40):
I I don't care. There you go.
That's the note right there. We're excited to see what
happens on that note. We've made it to the end of
another Water Year 3. Thank you, Candace, for being
with us. You can find a podcast at C3 dot
GG slash podcast dropping every Wednesday morning at 3:33 AM
Eastern on all the major platforms including Spotify,
YouTube Music and Apple Podcast.I'm Ray.

(01:21:02):
Dan puts this all together. Our theme song is by Castor
Garden and for our executive producer, Joel Willis.
Have a good day everybody. Channel 3.
Is the future.