0140 squarepegs of MRGE Michigan Retro Game Expo

Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Channel. 3. Is the future.
Welcome crew to one of your three the Channel 3 Podcast

(00:30):
where we take a member of the Channel 3 community, discuss
three games of their choosing, go through some honorable
mentions and some other odds andends for a nice little video
game discussion. I'm Dan with me as always, Ray.
Dan, do you love retro and modern video games?
I do ray that describes me accurately.
Right, let me tell you, so does our guest.
With the love of all things the video games, Jay AKA Square Pegs

(00:54):
talks about the best in retro and modern gaming, whether it's
the games or stuff related to the games.
And we have them tonight, SquarePegs.
Jay, how are you doing tonight? I am doing great and I am so
excited to be here. Thank you guys so much for
having me on. We're we're excited to have you
here because this list of games that we're going to get to, I
mean it is unique. And as I mean, all I know is

(01:16):
that as I was going through the game that I was going to talk
about, I was like, oh, that's socool.
And then next I was like, oh, this is really making me mad.
And I was like, oh, how have I not heard of this one?
So many. I've had so many emotions going
through this list and looking atthese games here.
Ray Ray, it's been it's been 140episodes and after the chicken
romaine episode 1, I don't thinkwe had a single episode without

(01:39):
at least one game overlapping indiscussion.
Now, every discussion's different, don't get me wrong.
So we're not, we're not disparagingly saying that like,
hey, come bring better games people or come bring weirder
games people. He's like, the whole point is to
hear everybody's story. So like we, we've never had a
time where like, no, you could talk about Mario Kart 8 or Final
Fantasy 7 whenever you want. Like is it everybody's stories?

(02:00):
Some some different in some way.So, but it's funny.
After 100 and 139 episodes later, we finally get a fresh
list. It's it's cool, but Dan, we have
to talk about some other stuff before we get to the games.
We we do. And yeah, the first thing was
this wasn't part of the this wasn't part of the plan.
We just just said we want to getsquare pegs on.
But also, you know, again, ironically enough, I you know,

(02:22):
LL cool games when she made her post earlier of the of the merge
squad didn't realize until talking with you and and she
better keep the secret. She knows how this works.
We keep it secret until till we say it's not secret.
But her silence will be. Her silence will be secured
undoubtedly. But the, the merge crew, the the
metro, the Michigan Retro Game Expo crew, the leadership gang

(02:45):
got together today. But you know, August 29th, you
guys are the clock's ticking right rapidly.
Nine months away at this point, nearly nearly the day in
Kalamazoo, MI. You got the Delta hotels
Marriott locked down up there and was like 35,000 square feet
in that place. Something like something
obnoxiously big like that. It's it's a it's a really good
size for a first time show. And this is something where game

(03:09):
dad and myself were talking kindof incessantly about, aw, it'd
be cool if this could happen at a show.
It'd be cool if this could happen at a show.
And my wife, bless her heart, got tired of us talking about it
and said you guys should just doit.
We should all do this together. And it kind of spiralled from
there, where it it went from, yeah, that'd be kind of neat to,

(03:29):
oh, crap. I think we can actually do this.
I think we can actually make this happen to where we're at
now, where we're, you know, fully into design and planning,
fully into like, logistically, you know, getting things laid
out, bringing in vendors, looking for sponsors, bringing
in guests, selling tickets. We have a, a Black Friday sale
coming up, which is going to runBlack Friday through Cyber

(03:51):
Monday. So I think it starts at noon
time on Black Friday. So you actually get to, you
know, sleep in a little bit or recover from from going out
shopping at 3:00 in the morning.And there's without revealing
too much, there will be some exclusive merchandise that will
only be for people that purchasethe Black Friday tickets and it
will be sent to you early. So rather than having to wait

(04:13):
till day of show to do pick up at will call, you'll be able to
get some of the stuff early ahead of time to to be able to
come to the show. Yeah.
So that's going to be the 27th of November to December 1st.
You got your, you got your BlackFriday action there lined up
plenty of folks in Michigan. So they they're already, I know
people keeping an eye, an eye onthis MRGE expo.com, right.

(04:34):
It's got you got the MRGE and then expo.com.
It's MRG Expo, so MREEXP. O OK, right.
The Expo is just the the rolls right into it, so yeah.
And we're lucky, you know, we're, we're, our, our location
in Kalamazoo is, is really beneficial.
We're, we're two hours from Detroit, 2 hours from Chicago, 3
1/2 hours from Indianapolis. So we're, we're kind of at this,

(04:55):
this nice crossroads of, of three major cities where we,
we'd love to have folks come out.
You know, we're, we're, we've got events planned where we're
going to be doing an NHL 94 tournament.
I do believe that my good friends from Channel 3, we'll be
in attendance as well and helping and.
We're and. We're, you know, we're, we're so

(05:16):
thrilled to have you guys there.You know, it was the, the
literally the first thing we talked about when we got to the
point where we were, we were actively starting to plan things
out because both game data and myself and Lindsay are, are part
of the Channel 3 kind of ecosystem.
And, and we're on the site. And the first thing we said is
like, it'd be really cool if they could, they could do
tournaments for us because it's kind of your specialty, right?

(05:38):
And I don't know a darn thing about running a tournament.
I just know they're fun And I know that you guys always have
these amazing quests and these awesome group things.
And it's just like you're, you are the perfect team to be doing
this. And we're just, we're so
thrilled that Channel 3 is part of it.
I, I, I told the leadership crewin Pittsburgh I will hide the XP
coins around the physical facility.
As far as I'm concerned, that was, you know, we had our, our

(06:00):
get together in Cincy. That was dumb fun just trying to
find like hate and stuff. And I, I will do all of that
stuff as far as I'm concerned aswell.
We will do channel, I will do whatever.
But yes, the tournaments, we're we're lying.
You're showing me, you're showing me maps and spaces.
Ray. Ray is awaiting child #3 that,
that, that one's a rival. But already in front of his
wife, he's like, I'm going, I'm going to Michigan in August,

(06:22):
honey. It's as good as how it's going
to be. You're going to be taking care
of all three on your own. No problem.
So Ray, Ray is ready to go. He'll be coming up from.
He'll be coming up from the Carolinas, even.
Bless my wife. We, we have been, we we've also
been discussing a little bit on our side for for C3 con that's
coming up in July for you guys that may maybe there there might

(06:42):
be a merge quest sponsored at the show so.
We'll. We'll be we'll be talking out
and hammering out the details for that coming up soon.
Yeah, So, you know, it's it's all everybody's everybody
singing kumbaya around the fire together.
So don't worry people. We're the beginning of July.
They're at the end of August. This is we're ready to go.
But yeah, so I, I mean, I know like you got tournament space
set up already. You got vendor tables lined up.

(07:05):
You're going to have all sorts of you got what, what else was
you got meet and greet you're planning.
You already had some cosplay announcements that have been
hitting the socials out there. Yeah, our friend the Savvy Jewel
is going to be doing the cosplaysection for us.
She's incredible. I met her at an event probably
three years ago and we just hit it off immediately.
We're thick as thieves and and much like you guys do a

(07:25):
tournament. She's the first person we
thought of was was like, it'd beso cool if if she could help us
out and she was on board immediately.
We have some incredible guests coming out.
I I can announce the immortal John Hancock is going to be
there. He is.
And if you don't know who John Hancock is, he has so many
collections like it's I, I've, I've seen the garage.

(07:46):
It can be overwhelming. It it's, it's, it's a lot.
It's a lot. I've held stadium events like
his copy is stuff like, oh, I did it.
It's real. But he's he's gonna be there.
We have some other people comingout as well about how do you.
I I'm afraid to touch something like it's like holding
somebody's child. I don't wanna hold your child.
I don't, I don't wanna hold yourchild.
I don't wanna hold your collectible.
No, I don't wanna do either of those things.

(08:08):
He's like, Oh yeah, here's a stadium event.
There's this one. This is complete in box.
I'm like I, I this is this is more than my car is worth.
Please take it back. I don't want.
I'm going to. Like just, I'm not going to drop
it, but I'm going to start to drop it.
I'm going to grab it and manhandle it and like put it,
put a crease in the box or something.
No, I don't want to touch your child.
No. But yeah, it's, it's going to be

(08:29):
a really good time. We're we're very excited.
Things are starting to, you know, we're, we're like you
said, we're nine months out now and things are starting to
snowball a little bit and start to pick up speed.
And it's like, oh, that's real. OK.
Now we've, we've, we've got somestuff to do.
So like I, I can hear in the background right now, our, our,
our group discord is, is poppingoff and we're, we're discussing

(08:51):
some stuff for Black Friday right now about what one of the
pieces of merchandise is going to be going out.
We're we're currently doing active designing in the
background, which is pretty cool.
That's a a game game, dad. I didn't realize how much
production he physically does himself until we were chatting
in Pittsburgh of of the The thing is, he does in house.
So it's you're not having to worry about having to source
stuff or if it's going to show up.

(09:11):
No, he's just going to take careof this stuff himself.
Yep. And you know, the stuff that he
can't do, I can. And if I can't do it, our friend
Thor can do it. You know, it's weird like it is.
It's such an overused term nowadays.
But we're trying to keep this asbespoke as possible.
We're trying to not just like ship out and be like, Oh yeah,
you're going to get our rubber band bracelet.

(09:32):
We're going to have those. Don't worry.
There will be rubber band bracelets for the rubber band
bracelet fans. But like we're going to have,
you know, all our stickers are printed in house.
All of our shirts are printed inhouse.
All of our specific merchandise for Black Friday, which again, I
can't, I can't spoil it. You got to, you got to wait to,
to actually see the ticket package when it goes on sale.
All of that is being designed and printed and created in house

(09:54):
and it's, you know, it's, it's something that we're taking a
lot of pride in and we're, we'revery excited to see people's
reaction to. And to be clear, for anybody who
hasn't seen their gear yet, whether it's in photos that LL
Cool Games has posted or or posted on the site or anything
like that, we're not talking about like, oh, this is like a
Bobo thing somebody printed on an inkjet printer.
No, this is all like high quality.

(10:15):
Again, you bespoke is the properway artisanal assembly for for
these things as well. So I got some, I got some merge
stickers upstairs. I know off the top of my head
and some other some other odds and ends from meeting up in
Pittsburgh. So yeah, I know it's it's
exciting. So November, November 27th,
December 1st, that's your that'sthe time you want to jump on
this thing. That's Yep, interesting to see.

(10:36):
What we we we look forward to topeople hopping on the website
checkingoutmrgexpo.com and we hope to see folks in Kalamazoo
on the 29th of August in 2026. We, we, we will.
Ray and I will be there calling smash fights, calling hockey,
calling, whatever else, whateverelse needs to be done.
It's going to be a hectic day. It's going to be awesome.
It's going to be. It's going.
To be so much fun and you know, it's we work hard, we play hard.

(10:58):
It's going to be a good time afterwards and a great time at
the show, so. Now I, I have to before we get
into the games, call out your, your T-shirt that you are
wearing here, as there's a, a, abeautiful artwork of a Chrono
Trigger and all of the, all of the characters and also Magus as
well. Also, I I'm going to I'm I'm

(11:22):
sorry, I'm going to do this now because I'm I'm just going to
piss off innocent info cynic early and just say, you know,
Magus has got some prominent placement on that T.
Shirt does does right up basically just over everything,
yeah. He's just and, and not in like
an overshadowing way. He's got like a little bit of a
smirk. He's got like it's, it's a
little too much of him on the team for me.
Are you going to kill him or or let him live?

(11:43):
It depends. Depends on the year.
It's it's one of those games I play through every year and it's
much like suit coding 2, which is my my favorite video game
ever, which I play through everyyear.
It yeah, yeah, all 108 stars of destiny yeah, that's entire.
Well, it's easy trigger. Trigger Listen, you're doing a

(12:04):
game plus you can beat that in 15 minutes.
But trig code and. Not so much with with Suit
coding 2. It's nice now that we have the
remasters on the Switch because I can just take it with me and
it's if I'm doing an especially tedious task at work where it's,
it's mindless, but I have to be there, just play and let the let
the automation scripts run in the background and.

(12:25):
Check the brain for 15 minutes. Let the let the brain.
Go. Fair enough.
I'll kill him every time. At this point, I've let him live
long. Enough in my life.
Medieval Hitler dies every time.See you, buddy, you're gone
because I just did my playthrough a couple of months
ago was like, yeah, I got the Steam version, I'm playing it.
And like I was like, you know what, let me go through the

(12:46):
times when you see sorry spoilers when he's a kid and I'm
like, he's a jerk. He's a kid too.
Forget this isn't like, oh, it'sonly because he got displaced in
time that his life sucks and he's just no, he's a jerk back
then, too Forget him. He's done, he's done, he's
going. He's killing people left and
right like he's just he's laughing.
His Glen's getting whacked. No, forget it.

(13:06):
This guy's done. He's irredeemable.
Get out of here. I mean I.
I, I don't, I don't begrudge anyone for killing him.
I mean, it's, it's, it's the right choice.
Oh I I do. I will.
I will firmly stand by it every time and and happily defend it
to whoever's got a problem with it.
But that's you're not here to talk about that.
We've talked Kroner Trigger. Kroner Trigger's a game that's
come up many a time, so that's not on your list.

(13:27):
It's only because I saw your T-shirt.
Wait, Dan, I want to talk about Mario Kart first.
I I I got to talk about this picture that.
Lol he's not kidding. Oh boy.
Well I'm serious with all four. You are smiling while holding
single joy cons and and and playing what seems to be Mario
Kart on a four way split screen on the switch to.

(13:50):
That that is all accurate. The the I can I can tell you at
the end, and this is going to begreat for an audio podcast, but
it'll be wonderful for this. My hands were like claws when we
were done playing. We did we did one race and that
picture was taken within the 1st10 seconds of starting.
So the smiles were real at that time, but at the end of it, it

(14:11):
was like I'm done. I never want to play this game
again with a joy con It's it it's uncomfortable, it hurts.
It takes all the joy out of it. That's it.
I. Just I just, I just had to make
make sure I checked how to Fact Check that photo first.
There's a. Lot of there's.
A lot of happiness in that photolike this.
That had to be the start of the race, though.
It was, it was absolutely right at the start.

(14:31):
We might not have even launched into game yet, like it was still
doing like the fly over and we were just excited to play, but
that that got dashed quickly so.All right, well, you've got,
you've got three games lined up.Even between your three games,
your honorable mentions, we havenever discussed any of these
before, which is again, we said this is exciting and the 1st

(14:53):
1990 nines rising Zon the samurai gunman.
What you think swords are cool? You think guns are cool?
What about both? Let's do both Got a cowboy train
in the way of the samurai. But you're you know, I'll kind
of spoil for everybody here. Your your theme is you want you
wanted to sing some under sun games some mission accomplished.
But yeah, this is the first one,right?

(15:15):
It it, it was and this is so so the entire idea that I wanted to
talk about was overlooked fun. Just, you know, it's it's kind
of like you said, everyone has played Mario Kart, everyone's
played Chrono Trigger. These are all games we all love,
we all know, we appreciate. But I wanted to to shine some
light on the dusty corners of the video game universe here and
and risings and the Samurai Gunman is absolutely one of the

(15:36):
dustiest of dusty corners from the PlayStation.
And I I maintain to this day. If Rising Xen had released two
years later, it would be as popular as Devil May Cry You.
You wanted to be AP, you wanted to be like a fully PS2 game by
that point then you think? Or is it just purely the?
Timing, I think, I think it was it needed to be a generation

(15:57):
later. I truly do, because it was
something that First off, the PlayStation original PlayStation
controller was garbage. It was a trash controller and
the lack of analog controls in that game.
No, we that wasn't even. One that they that was not even
like a A2 sticker they put in there as.
Far as I remember, it has been alittle bit since I played it.

(16:17):
I could be incorrect on that, and if it did have the analog
controls, they weren't good enough for me to remember.
Yeah, it looks it. Looks unplayable then if you're
playing it without the analog. Good God.
It's very difficult. It's a very like, no matter
what, it's a difficult game. But the the humor that the game
exhibits, the overall combat mechanics and the kind of design
elements behind it, to me it is a precursor the Devil May Cry.

(16:39):
And without Devil May, it would like to me if if that had come
out at the same time as Devil May Cry, we would be talking
about rising Zen alongside characters like Dante.
Can I, can I tell you the the the dumbest thing about this
that that haunts me and I the biggest what if of all this?
Do you know who developed this game by chance?
Not off the top of my head. A.

(17:00):
Company called UEP and I bring them up because this is the one
aberration in their development history, because every other
game they developed involved thesnowboard.
They were they were the developers behind the cool
borders franchise, but literallyevery other game they developed
was a snowboarding game, a cool borders game.

(17:20):
So it's just it's so weird. They're like, you know what
we're going to do halfway It's like before this it was cool
borders. After this it was cool borders.
But right in the middle we're making a samurai gunman game.
Let's go samurai Cowboys are in.Let's do this.
I, I will tell you right now as well with, with Rise and Zen, it
has the single greatest theme song introduction for a video

(17:41):
game I have ever heard. Legitimately the the Best Song
I've ever heard for a video game.
Now we're going to that, I guesswill that have to your clue is
going to be a lot Dumber. Now I kind of have to like have
audio to go with your clue at the same time.
As well. This is it.
It's it's, it's worth the extra effort.
Trust me, it's it is such a ridiculous like, do you remember

(18:06):
when Young Guns 2 came out and Jon Bon Jovi put out that kind
of weird Western rock kind of like it?
It is that I. Didn't I didn't have young guns
too as a big of a card today, but OK, there's Ray Rand movie.
It falls under a movie. Reference which is going to
happen, but it it's amazing. I so the, the company UEP

(18:28):
Systems did disband in 2001. So this is probably in rights
purgatory because I, I don't know anything about like who, if
somebody want to make a cool borders game, who would be able
to, who would be able to pick upthose rights?
The rights just have to be floating out there for risings
and then like we can, we can getthis thing and, and make it

(18:49):
happen And I, you know, the rates are there.
We just got to find out what filing cabinet they're in and we
can extract the Mission Impossible style I.
Don't have the. Why?
What makes me happier? We just have to extract them and
we'll be. We'll be set if if I could do
one thing in the industry to resuscitate rising, XAN would be
top of the list for me. Yeah, get rigged games rig was a

(19:12):
rig was in Pittsburgh too. He he resuscitated the bizarre,
obscure game and made a second one that they can't even find
the first game for. So this game exists and you can.
So So what what exactly stuck? It's obviously you mentioned the
you mentioned the music for sure, but like what?
What stuck out with this game because you're you're not really
selling us on like the control sock.

(19:34):
They're like the controls were not memorable in a favor.
This game sounds terrible. So the.
Videos. The videos of it are wild.
I have not played this game to be to be transparent.
I really watched YouTube videos at this point.
It's it's honestly it it's a game where it's like it, it
shows its age. Like I, I'm not going to, you
know, blow smoke and tell you that it's some kind of crazy,

(19:54):
incredible title that everyone needs to play some kind of crazy
hidden gem. But it is something that playing
it like if you if you enjoy things that that don't take
itself too seriously, that will like kind of revel in its sense
of humor and and there there's some good challenge to the game
too, like it's. It's got clever level designs,

(20:14):
the characters are memorable, the music is fantastic, the
combat's actually pretty good. It's just the controls that
really hamstring it like that's.But if you can get past that,
the game is worth playing. It is.
It's legitimately one of those games where I'm like, well, have
you ever played it? And ever.
No one I know has ever played it.
Have have they heard of it or are they just saying Oh yeah, of
course, because raise immediate.Response.

(20:36):
Raise, raise. Immediate response upon seeing
your list was is he pulling our leg or these actual games.
Nope, all real games. You could have read anything and
I would be like you say, that's a game, all right?
If you say so, I'm sure somebody, yeah.
So again, listen, somebody, somebody get a hold of a lawyer
in Japan and find out where these rights are hiding.

(20:59):
And listen, there's no better time than now.
Like you said, this is this pride to you.
I mean this looking at it, you tell me, this is going to, you
put this on PlayStation 2 graphics.
You put this on PlayStation 2 controls.
I I think this is an entirely different history.
For this, it's 100 percent, 100%different history like it it
like if this came out in 2001 or2002, the the entire trajectory

(21:24):
of that game's franchise is different.
It's not some obscure game that I found randomly in a discount
bin in a movie gallery, which iswhat happened it it's a
PlayStation two game I find in adiscount bin in a movie gallery
like I did to the first of them.They cry, but it it's something
where like just like the sense of humor, like because it's,
it's so it's so ridiculously serious, but so ridiculously

(21:47):
funny at the same time, like. It knows what it is.
There's there's a tongue in cheek element to this thing.
Again, the cool, absolutely. These are the people who brought
you cool borders. And like, knowing that in my
head I could see like, no, they knew what they were doing.
Yeah, yeah. All right, we'll.
Move on to the second game on this list.
I I'm surprised that I've never heard of this game.
Of all the ones on this list, this is the one I couldn't

(22:09):
believe. Henry Hasworth in the puzzling
adventure. It's the best DS game you've
never heard of. I'm telling you, it looks it
looks great. I and I and Nintendo DS was 7th
grade for me OK and we were all.In my beard gets grey tell.
Him to go # sand right now wow surely Speaking of like your tag

(22:31):
on assistance 85 whether it's age or not like I I if it's 85
I'm older than you you can tell him to go # sand right off the
bat that's fine that's. I, I, I, I feel myself withering
and, and, and just dying in front of you guys right now.
But like by the like the the Nintendo DS was it was huge for
for me. My friend grew.
We were playing. You had, you know, essentially
the beginnings of local play. Well, you don't have, you know,

(22:52):
no link cable And and I and I think of games like
Scribblenauts, which which played so much.
Spectacular titles the the entire Scribblenauts franchise
is amazing and one of the most creative games ever.
There's Henry Hadworth with I thought when I when I think
about DS games and a reason you can't like port them places, and
I think of like Kingdom Hearts all the time, that they'll just

(23:13):
never figure out a way to do it.This game is dependent on that
double screen. 100% this is 100%.
So why? Where'd you play, or how'd you
play it, or how did you come upon this game that no one else
heard of? I.
Worked on it. You worked on this.
Game I did, yeah. So that's a little bit about
the. Seven years you were in the
industry, huh? Yeah, I was in, I was in the

(23:35):
video game industry for seven years and I was the the QA
project manager for Henry Hatsworth and the Puzzling
Adventure. It was a year where I got a lot
of kind of cast off projects where it was, you know, my
studio developed Madden and NASCAR, Tiger Woods and I got
all of the stuff no one else got.
So I got stuff like I was working on Fight Night for EA

(23:58):
Chicago. I was working on NCAA Foot
Basketball 2007 for EA Canada. And then to me, let me.
Let me just jump in here. Fight Night was great of the
mechanics of the analog stick controls.
For those games also, if I had read 2 names down when I was
doing myself, I would have seen Jay.
I stopped that. I stopped that Peter, and then

(24:19):
it looked two names down where he's right there.
That's OK, That's OK. It's so the, the, the entire, my
entire history with Hatsworth was, was it was, hey, you're
going to work on this obscure DSgame.
And I was like, all right, whatever.
I love the DS, I'm happy to workon it.
And when we got our first build of the game, I was absolutely
blown away by by what they had. Because usually in development,

(24:40):
when you get your first build atthe start of a project, it's
just garbage, right? Like it, it's, it's not playing
well, it looks terrible, placeholder textures everywhere.
And this was basically a finished game when they gave it
to us. It had some balancing tweaks and
stuff like that that needed to happen.
But the entire idea that that Kyle and the team that were
developing it and designing it came up with was a fully fleshed

(25:03):
out idea. And they were, they hit the
ground it not even running. They hit it at a full Sprint.
And we, we got the game into QA and the team that we assembled
was A-Team of people that had never worked on ADS before, had
no interest in working on the DSand had no interest working on a
random title. It wasn't a sports game.
And by the end of it, it was their favorite project they

(25:23):
worked on, their favorite game they worked on.
And we all knew the brilliance of Hatsworth.
And it is to this day the thing I am most proud of, of my time
in the industry because it's, itis the the very definition of a
puzzle platform. So if you get like we're we're
talking and we're kind of avoiding talking about what the
game is, we that's a royal Wii, it's me.

(25:45):
So the idea of the game is the top screen of the game is a
platformer where you play Hatsworth.
And as you play, you were able to find power ups that lets you
either control a giant neck suitrobot that is powered by T
because you're an English explorer, or you were able to
age or de age yourself based on power ups.
You find when you're younger, you move faster, you have

(26:08):
different abilities and things like that.
On the bottom screen is a standard sliding match three
puzzle, but that puzzle is constantly running as you are
playing the platforming section of the title and enemies are
embedded in those blocks at the bottom.
So as it is scrolling, if you donot go down and handle the
puzzle element of it and you're just focusing on the platform,

(26:29):
more enemies are going to start pouring into the world where
you're playing in the platform or making it significantly more
difficult for you. Now, initially that just seemed
like a simple concept. I was like, well, I'll just pop
into the the puzzle section and just handle it and then I won't
worry about it. But you can't just do that
because you only have a limited amount of time you're allowed to
be in there and you have to build your puzzle meter up
through play on the platforming section to be able to take those

(26:52):
enemies out. It was incredible and absolutely
just unbelievable experience andjust something that is to this
day, it's still fun. Like it's one of those games
where I can pop in and I'm just going to have a great time when
I play it. It's such an incredible title
and it it's it, if you like the DS, you need to play it.
It look, yeah, it it looks like it looks like a game that just

(27:14):
utilizes the DS so well. So I mean, you're it says you're
credited as the artist. What?
What exactly? That that's what?
That that is a lie. That's.
Wikipedia. I was wondering like what?
What? So like what?
Did you ChatGPT this again? Randy no, I did not ChatGPT this
one. That is not what I was looking
at. It What?

(27:35):
So what exactly? Like what?
What was your role in the game? When, when when you receive it.
So I I was the QA manager and for me it was basically I was
making sure the test team was ontask.
I wrote the different test casesfor the game.
So as you go through, you need to make sure the certain
functionality is working. I handled lot check to Nintendo,

(27:55):
which is where you go for submission when a game goes
gold, which is, you know, communicating directly with them
to make sure that they're going to accept the title.
If they have any feedback on thegame that it needs to be fixed
before it goes, that's when negotiations begin.
And I'm talking directly to themand basically telling them no go
# sand we're not fixing that. Just, you know, being nicer
about it And you know, for QA, it's it's making sure that the

(28:18):
game it's it's quality assurance.
We're making sure that the game is quality when it ships.
And that was easier said than done on some games.
But it was, oh, Jay Epperson. Epperson was the art director.
Was a different J There's two. Different J, different J Yeah, I
was quality strength to a project manager.
So I see Dan, it wasn't. I just EB to this thing while

(28:40):
you guys were talking this was. I look forward to like this.
This is the first game I requested to be added on Channel
3 because it it, it was one of those games where I was like, I
can't believe this isn't on here.
This is an outrage. And I mean, it's it's sold like
8 copies it, it sold for crap. But I.
Just bought I just bought 1 of the 8 so.
I appreciate that, I really do. Yes, it's just.

(29:05):
When I think of well, it reviewed well too.
I'm I'm so, I'm so. And it looks like it has so many
good pieces from from other games that you would think of
like the platform man, you got the wall jumps, you get this,
you know, Pokémon Puzzle League had had had a had a group of
people that enjoyed playing. It felt like it has so many good
pieces. Ray loves a dash.

(29:27):
He loves a wall jump. Square pants He loves.
He loves a dash. He loves a wall jump.
You give me a good platformer, Idon't know.
There's no reason why you wouldn't play it.
That that you need to play hats worth.
If you like all those things, you need to play it.
It it's it. It's legitimately one of one of,
if not the best games I worked on.
It's up there. It's like that Fight Night round
two, Fight Night Round 3 and Mirror's Edge were the the big 4

(29:49):
for me. Oh, Mirror's Edge, that's a
there. You go that's.
There's a there's a memory unlock there Yeah, I'm playing
catch up on the DS now. I don't know what to tell you
that there was not one I had at the time, but we, we got some
DSS towards the end of the life cycle between neighbor.
Like I bought a 2DS for my my kids and then my neighbors came

(30:09):
over like we got 2-3 DSS. My kids don't play with anymore.
Just take them. We're like, all right, fine.
So I'll, I'll keep the 2DS. This is mine now.
And there is, there's a lot of good stuff that was just like
hidden there that I had there was and they kept, they kept
Nintendo alive. After those post 8 years I I
didn't realize how good the stuff was hiding here.
And, you know, so, I mean, it's,it's Nintendo.

(30:30):
So a lot of, you know, some of the software's garbage.
It's just shovelware, but well, especially with that.
Yeah, some of those indie stuff like the, the, the, all the
download stuff's really, Yeah. All right, you've got game #3
Zach and Wiki Quest for Barbarossa's Treasure, an
adventure puzzle game developed and published by.

(30:52):
Speaking of independent studios,Capcom, this little, this
little, this little indie we're pulling for here.
Hope, they hope they can make something of themselves here.
But. But this was this was a a
critical, a beloved game by the critics, but just it was a
commercial failure with the notice and just kind of in the
the catacombs of Capcom buried over there.

(31:12):
I mean, it came out on the Wii Ueventually.
But like, OK, so so we're we're puzzling on the Wii.
Is that what we're? Is that what we're doing here?
Yeah, it, it was, it was an early Wii title, so it, it kind
of got lost in the shuffle of everyone wanting to play Wii
Sports. I I really think that's what
happened because it was one of those games where it wasn't
necessarily flashy like it was, it's a like the box arts

(31:36):
beautiful. It looks like a cartoon.
It plays like a cartoon. So if people had seen it in
action, I think they would have been more interested.
But it was so much easier for people to look at the Wii and
say, oh, I want to play bowling and that's all they wanted to
do. You know, they're like the the
first year of the Wii. I think only thing that really
got played was Wii Sports, but the the idea of the game, the

(31:58):
idea of the game is is kind of like a classic point and click
adventure from PC days. It's kind of like the adventures
of Monkey Island or Secret Monkey Island or like Indiana
Jones and the fate of Atlanta, stuff like that, where you're
you're controlling Zack and Wikiand you are trying to get
through each screen by solving different puzzles that are in
place on each one. So like one of the first screens

(32:18):
you go to, you have to saw down a tree, but you have to do it in
a particular order to be able todo it.
And the gameplay is really simple.
Like it's not an overly complex title.
It's not anything where you're going to look at it and go, oh,
this is, this is a game changer of, of, of gameplay styles here.
This is completely different. It's, it's pretty understandable
what it is, but it's clever at the same time because this was

(32:40):
kind of one of those first Wii games that really utilized the
Wii Remote for something other than just an action.
It's not a, it's not a sword. You're not swinging it.
You're not. Yeah.
Exactly. It it's gesture based and it's
something where it's like, oh, I'm going to use this as a
pointer. This is, oh, this is an
extension. It's like using a mouse now.
OK, now I get it. This is like playing with a
mouse and keyboard on my computer.

(33:01):
I can understand how this is supposed to work and it was
something where kind of like what I felt like with Rising
Xan. A lot of the writing in the game
is really solid, so it had a solid sense of humor.
It didn't take itself too seriously.
The look of the game is stunning.
I still think it's to this day one of the best looking Wii
games just because the graphically it was Capcom not
being saddled with having to do a Resident Evil or having to do

(33:25):
a Monster Hunter or a Mega. Man aforementioned devil may
cry. Yeah, or Devil May Cry, where
they could go out and do something a little bit different
and kind of take a risk and say let's throw this against the
wall and see if it sticks. And unfortunately it all slid
off. It didn't stick at all, but
yeah, so now they. Just stick with the dark and
gritty, OK? Yeah, exactly.
But it it was, it was just one of those games where when I when
I got it, I was, I was really impressed with kind of the

(33:48):
ambitiousness of it. And I still think it's still fun
today. How?
How did you find this Which? One this one.
So this this was one of just I, I, I tend to when when systems
come out, I tend to keep an eye on games that are released
within probably about the first six months because I look for

(34:09):
something, I look for different experiences just to kind of see
what the game, what the system can offer.
Like with the Switch, I was lousy with crap games that came
out in the first. Six months, that was like you
were you had that 1-2 switch, huh?
Yes had 1-2 switch, had sniper clips.
Which sniper clips is great? Sniper clips is the don't knock
sniper clips tell you don't knock sniper clips.
Yeah, that game's fantastic. But so with the Wii, it was like

(34:32):
I was buying, I was buying all kinds of stuff.
It was coming out just it was like, oh, that looks
interesting. I'll try that.
I'll try that. And that one just kind of stuck
like because I was like, this isthis is incredible.
It's a. It's a.
It's a. Solid concept.
It's a reimagining of a, of a kind of genre that needed to be
reimagined, that didn't need to just be kind of shoehorned into

(34:54):
a console that needed to be like, well, we have this motion
controller that does all these different things.
How can we take that and adapt it to a point and click
adventure? And they they just nailed it.
It was just one of those games where it was a lot of kind of
classic Capcom ingenuity at playin this game design.
And it felt right and it was right.

(35:15):
It was a great game. I I just wish I knew it existed.
That was the. This was one just like.
A lot of people like it's it's one of those games like it's
this one again, is is not a not a hidden gem Like anyone that
has played it has gone. This game's incredible.
This needs to be played by people and it was on a lot of
lists like it. It reviewed well, it scored
well. People who played it loved it.
It just it didn't sell. It's just one of those games

(35:35):
that didn't sell. Yep, and Capcom has left it.
It did come out for the Wii U eventually, so maybe, maybe
we'll. See it again something I think
you got a WEWARE port. Yeah, that's all.
That's all. That wasn't Weware.
Yeah. So Capcom may have somebody
who's got the files there and can make something happen.
Who knows? So we may see it again.

(35:57):
I did not. Full disclosure, you didn't
quite sell me on this one the way you did with Henry
Hatchworth is. No, I, I ran right to eBay while
we're talking this, I'm like, I'll keep an eye out while I'm
at the I'm at the stores. Maybe if maybe if it's there,
I'll pop in and take a look. But it's it's not an expensive
one. I will say that you can find it
for a pretty good price. So it's it's worth taking a
flyer on like 15 bucks. It's worth it.
But that's the nice thing with it, it being Capcom, they at

(36:19):
least would have produced some copies.
So it's not like you're like, oh, this is a an underrated gem
where they made 10 copies of it.No, this, there's, there's a
little, there's a little more with this one.
Yeah. So now we go to the honorable
mentions a couple extra games here and this this first one.
The more the more I look into it, the angrier I actually get

(36:42):
looking. We, we, we Billy Hatcher.
Let let let me get the full. Time time out on the field while
he's looking at the full title to get this.
He was losing his mind before you came on about this game.
He either. So I'm going to let he's going
to he's going to rant in a minute here.
And it's not like it's a it's not an unfair rant.
It's not a rant against the game.
But no, it's a complete opposite.

(37:02):
He'll, he'll explain this is a so he's, he's been bottling this
up for the last 55 minutes or so.
Excellent. I look forward to it.
Billy Hatcher and the giant egg.And I mean, I, I'm, I'm shocked
and not shocked of this, that I didn't play this game.
And I I'm more shocked this thatthis is developed by Team Sonic.

(37:24):
Yep. And using, they say, yeah, we'll
use the same engine. The basically Sonic Adventures
using, we're going to use, we'regoing to use the same grading
system for levels. Essentially.
They said they slipped a little less speed because they're not,
it's not a, you know, a hedgehog.
And we'll, we'll just make it more kind of open 3D World and,

(37:44):
and you know what we're going todo?
And we'll use eggs. They're basically chow eggs.
But we'll do something else. And you know what we're going to
do, right? We're not going to use any Sonic
character to sell it. We'll just come up with a random
dude and make it a game about chickens.
I. Mean stick him in a chicken
soup. That'll sell.
Right, I'm like you, you're telling me this game like
without not even describing it, you're telling me Team Sonic

(38:07):
could have said, you know what, let's make let's just make a 3D
Knuckles game. What we could adjust a little
bit. Have Amy be the person because
the character can't fight on hisown, right?
He all he has to use eggs. Let Amy be the character and
tell her she can use her hammer once in a while and let her run
around for for 5 worlds levels in every single one of them and

(38:29):
go compete against Mario Sunshine.
I mean this the game looks greatand they just threw it away.
That's it it. Did.
Go ahead that's I'm so angry about this because it it it
looks great. It looks like a great 3D
platforming game for the game Qimean just perfect colors.

(38:50):
Everything about it that the game.
People want kids playing this game, and I've never heard of it
until today that there's my introduction to Billy Hatcher.
You nailed it. Like everything.
Yes, 100% accurate. It is on that note, on to
collect. Oh, no, sorry. 72 different

(39:13):
eggs. This game has depth to it.
Yep. It, it's, it's such a fun title.
Like this was once. So when I was at EA, we had a,
we had a, a library where you were able to check out games.
Basically it was like a private blockbuster, but it didn't cost
anything. And we, we'd go online and it's
like, I went to the, the GameCube library when I got

(39:34):
access to it and I was like, what the hell is Billy Hatcher?
OK, why not? I'll check it out.
It's a GameCube game. I'm always looking to try
something new for the cube. And I brought it home and played
it and I, my like, my mind was blown.
Like to see it, to start it up and see Sonic Team.
And I was like, what, are you kidding me?
And then I get into game and it's it's a Sonic game.

(39:55):
It's a Sonic game. It's 100% a Sonic game.
It's just a little bit different.
And your your your statement about it being an Amy game or
even like a big the cat game or something like that where you're
just controlling a character andpushing around Shaw legs.
It would have sold like gangbusters, absolutely insane
sales if they had done that. But.
I mean, I like the character Billy Hatcher.

(40:17):
I like the story that they told.I like everything about the
game, but I'm. Sure, he's a wonderful person.
It's. It was, it was right there.
They were a foot away and they just went, you know what?
Nah, we're not Nah, we're not going to do it.
We're just going to rely on Sonic Adventure Remix remixes on
the GameCube to to sell our Sonic titles instead of making
something new. It's like, OK, that's a choice.

(40:42):
It really is. I mean this and this game has
they say you play all these levels, everything's night.
There's it's night time. It's each time to start your if
your egg breaks, start over. I mean it has like.
It's the same engine, the Sonic adventure too, Like we're like
an evolved engine, like. It's yeah, it's the same engine.
They just open it up instead of they just not linear level.

(41:03):
They kind of open it up a littlemore.
Do they not believe like an Amy or somebody could carry a game?
Is that what like? No idea.
Is is this like the Sonic? Is like the Star Fox.
Adventures where like we're justgoing to slap Star Fox onto this
game like they just but but the opposite, like we just have to
make it its own thing because we're not, I guess, confident
because even like looking at thecharacter.

(41:25):
Yeah, it's just, I don't know this, this should have been a.
Sonic character, if you play like, it's a stupid thing to
say, but if you play it like with your eyes closed, it's a
Sonic game like even like. No, you're right.
It's, it's, it's one of those games like the controls are
tight, The speed is like, it's, it's not kind of that frantic,
hectic pace of a Sonic adventuregame, which, which could be

(41:45):
overwhelming, right? Like if, if it wasn't something
you were prepped for to, to get that Sonic speed in a 3D
environment, it could be a lot. Billy Hatcher tames that it, it
brings it down probably by abouthalf.
So things are a lot easier, moreeasy to control.
The level designs are creative, the enemy combat is fun.
It's just it it it had everything going for it except a

(42:08):
character. I I'm actually shocked that it's
like it didn't score particularly well.
And it's like, it's a simple plot.
I was like, it's yeah, it's a simple plot.
It's a, it's a, that's not the point.
It's a, it's got great controls and plays well.
And you and you play a, you get a bunch of levels, you earn
chickens and then you find a boss at the end of the thing.

(42:29):
Like it's a formula that's been done 1,000,001 times.
I don't I don't know what else they wanted besides the
character, besides the characteryou you knew except the set of
the brand new Billy Hatcher. Billy shows up.
I'm ready here. Billy actually shows up and
other stuff he. That one I didn't realize.
He shows up in Sonic Riders. I didn't.

(42:52):
I would say, well, they've announced Knights to be a part
of Sonic Cross World Billy's. Billy's got to have a slot on
the road map. Right.
Oh there, how can Billy not be in cross worlds that actually
would be? They brought they There's this
triumph and we brought Knights backward.
Cross worlds like Billy's. Got to get in there then.
I hope so, that would be amazing.
That will be a a great one. I mean, it, it just looks like,

(43:13):
like it just looks like a title that that belongs on GameCube
even just like the box art of it.
I was like, yeah, this is a GameCube game.
Of course it is. Where else would it be?
It just, it just fits really nicely and it UPS, it upsets me.
This is Team Sonic again, just just it's just failing me.
And that's that's all I got about it.
All right, your next honorable mention, Galactic Wrestling,

(43:34):
featuring Ultimate Muscle. So this is yeah, go ahead.
This is based on the Kinney Cuman franchise.
So you were a kid of the 80s Muscle Men toys, the little
pink, little pink monsters lurking everywhere.
This so in the in the early 2000s, there was a re kind of

(43:58):
revitalization of the property with a franchise here in the
states called ultimate muscle, where you kind of got the legacy
characters from the original character.
So rather than can you come on, you had kid muscle, who is his
son, and this game features so many of those characters, like
all the characters from the new series, a lot of characters from
the classic series. But the thing that puts it over

(44:18):
the top is that it was the same engine.
It was as was used in games likeWrestleMania 2000 and WWF No
Mercy and WCW versus NWO. So you had this crazy, over the
top, like ridiculous characters with these unbelievable
superpowers and just like ridiculous move sets and things
like that, but with an unbelievably solid wrestling

(44:39):
engine behind it. Yeah, all the wrestling games
you loved through that N64 era on through the PS2, they were
back there. Yep, they were.
And this one, this one I, I, I, I call it overlooked because
there was a, a GameCube release as well, that it was just
ultimate muscle. Legends versus new generation.

(45:00):
Yeah, versus New Generations, which is which is a great game.
Like, don't get me wrong, it's agreat game.
I prefer the PS2 one just because I think it's a more
solid title overall and I think the engine plays better on the
PS2. The GameCube 1 is great, but PS2
for me is just better. I think it it just works better
overall and there's more stuff to it, like there's more
unlockables and stuff like that in the PS2 one as well, which is

(45:20):
fun so. Just just brought back a little
little reminiscing. Is that just bring you back to
the the youth of those little rubber guys?
Well, like, I mean, I was I I'm I'm a toy collector too.
I've got toys all over the game room and it that was one of my
favorite toy lines growing up with were muscle men like it was
and it was it was an easy toy line for me to get because they

(45:42):
were cheap. So my grandfather would go to
the store and bring me back one of the garbage cans full of
muscle men. Yeah, you have a, you have a
toads like my neighbor across the street.
This was a core memory unlocked when I saw this because I'm like
my neighbor. Across the street had a tote of
these things we would just play with outside and you'd like lose
5 of them under the Bush and find them next time you're like,
oh look, there's a we found somemore of the muscle man.
Yeah. Yeah, and if you lost them, big

(46:03):
deal. It was $2.00 to get 10 more.
Yeah, OK. No big deal.
That's, that's an afterthought purchase, right?
Like, and, and it was just the when, when the new series came
out, I, I remember I was, I was living with my friend Corey at
the time. And it was just, it was one of
those those stupid cartoons where it's like, you know,
you're 2021 years old, you, you don't know anything about

(46:25):
anything. You don't want to go to work and
you wake up at 8 O clock in the morning, you know, in, in boxer
shorts and AT shirt eating Cinnamon Toast Crunch on the
couch, laughing your fool head off at this stupid.
It's a stupid cartoon. And then there was a game about
it. And the game was great.
It was like, this is this is amazing.
This it's it's just, it's one ofthose those kind of nostalgia

(46:46):
moments that bridge childhood toadulthood for me.
So yeah, it it is fun. So that doesn't hurt.
And last I will mention the the best racing game that no that no
one's heard of Beetle Adventure Racing.
So beetle adventure racing and you get the little inside

(47:07):
baseball here. I, I, you guys are talking about
this at the start and I didn't know some of the facts about
this one. So I'm, I'm really interested to
hear some of the, the, the stuffthat you guys are going to spill
about this, but. Was this cursory, tied to your
work then based on the timing, or is this a?
Little too, No, actually this isa little too early.
This was a game that again, I was living with my buddy Corey

(47:27):
and we used to go to the Blockbuster that was like a
quarter mile away from our houseand rent N64 games.
And this was one of the games that just happened to be
leftover one day because we got there at like 10:00 at night on
a Friday night and everything was already checked out except
Beatle adventure racing. It's like, all right, why not?
Racing games are fun. And it's, it's, it's a legit

(47:51):
great game. Like the, the, the controls are
excellent, level designs are solid.
It doesn't suffer from a lot of the N64 kind of racing problems
of heavy fog everywhere. So you can't really see what's
going on. There's some of it.
It's an N64, you're never going to avoid it completely.
But it was just, it was one of those games where I, I, I really
enjoyed my time with it and it was something where I didn't

(48:14):
expect to. And I think that's kind of why
it sticks out for me is because I was like, it's a licensed
beetle racing game. This is going to be crap.
And it, it just, it works like the physics are solid.
The the the speed is good, the controls are excellent, the
levels are fun. And it was it was actually the
first when I when I finally got my own in 64, which wasn't until

(48:35):
like 6 years ago when I finally got that.
That was the first game I boughtfor it was was Beetle Adventure
Racing in my first Midwest gaming classic I went to in
Milwaukee. Well, it, it looks like I, I
wasn't kidding when it says it'sbest racing game.
It might be the best racing gameon the N64.
It's just that people didn't want to race Volkswagens.

(48:56):
It looks, that looks to be the only issue because it's, from
what I saw, they had made the game already.
It was basically need for speed.And then they said, hang on a
second, Volkswagen wants to basically sponsor us and we'll
just slap them on. We'll slap Beetles on this game.
But it's like it's done. So I mean, and it looks great.
They said maybe they used the expansion pack.
It could have looked even a little bit bigger or a little

(49:18):
bit better. But I mean, it it, it looks
great. It moves great, you know, and
N64 had a bunch of racing games that kind.
Of all didn't they were all arcade.
They were all the arcade games, like your cruisins and all that.
Cruisin USA is the Cruisin USA is the one I played.
I I played that one as much as you possibly could.
Cruising USA was the one. And when you talk about fog,

(49:40):
like that's the thing, do you, you got some full levels where
you know, it's trees just kind of hiding away to make it look
like their stuff there. And I mean this, it's just this
game looks good and a shout out bitmap books.
They knew this game existed because I I looked and said,
wait, have I? I haven't read this one yet.
As I go through it, It's there. He broke out the N64 Bible, the
Compendium. Came out, I did.

(50:02):
No one's going to see this, but here it is.
Maybe Dan will take it or something, but there it is.
There's a Bitmap books. It's definitely in there and
towards the later that's the later half of the of the N64 as
well when this from. Late release.
So if. So where did you play this game
for the first time six years agowhen you got?
Your no, no, I, I played this initially.

(50:24):
I want to say it was in 2000, itwas CT.
Crunch here on the couch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was the Cinnamon Toast Crunchsitting on the couch, just being
an idiot 20 year old, you know, just it, it was it, it just, it,
it was just fun, man. It was like, it was one of
those. It's there.
There's so many games from that era that are tied to just those

(50:44):
kind of those core memories of just hanging out with my
lifelong friends, like that Blasto on the PlayStation one,
which, yeah, in retrospect, playing it today, not a good
game, but there's some memories on it where I'm just like, yeah,
that. Whole year is age gruff.
We'll, we'll just dig. It oh, it really helps.
It really has, but there there'sjust someone has aged incredibly
well, Beetle Adventure Racing, because like when I picked it up

(51:07):
six years ago, I was like, oh man, I don't know if I want to
play this because and ruin it. It could be.
Yeah, it could. This could just completely.
Tarnish those memories. But no, it's still fun.
It's still a great time now playing the game.
Where? Where?
Where had you been interested inracing games that that you had
like something to cook to compare it to?
Or was it would this have been one of the newer ones?

(51:29):
And this was kind of like your first idea of what a racing game
would would look like and feel like.
I mean, racing games for me havealways been something I've
enjoyed like. Even like back on the NES like
Mock Rider, I loved that. Love hanging on on the Master
system and in arcades and stuff like that.
Used to pump money into cruisingUSA arcades at the Walmart near
where I lived. So I've I've always liked racing

(51:52):
and it was, it was, it was something where, and that's,
that's kind of why we gave it a shot because Corey liked racing
as well. So it was something that's like,
oh, we both like it. We'll give it a go.
And it was it, it was, it was one of those games where I I
expected to not enjoy it And, and I was, I was super, super
happy when I got to play it because it was, it was really
awesome. Man, I hate that.

(52:13):
Just had a memory for. Me saying playing at the.
At the arcade in Walmart. Remember when?
Remember when stores had? Oh, yeah, look, I, I played, I
used to play Mortal Kombat at the local Burger King.
Oh, that's awesome. Because they had that there.
They had it. There and oh, I guess.
I guess maybe my area, I had like a Mortal Kombat vendor that
was going around. I had it there.
I had ACH Martin, I don't know if any, if any of you guys had

(52:36):
ACH. Well they were probably buying
like second hand units like. Is the mortgage getting pulled
out? So they're probably just get
them on the on the cheap. I just that's yeah, you know, I
don't. You know, I don't know, I don't
walk around at the stores to seelittle arcade games as as often
anymore. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how
interchangeable like a lot of those arcade games they would.
Just like take the guts and plugthem into something else.
I don't know how interchangeablethose Mortal Kombat units were

(52:56):
now that they now that you say that, I'm not sure my Walmart.
Had a good string like it was the the first one they had was
my favorite arcade experience, which was super off road one of
my favorite games ever and then that switched to Street Fighter
two and then that switched to Mortal Kombat and then it

(53:16):
switched to cruising USA like that was that was a good two
year stretch man, I spent so many quarters there.
So worth it, Dan, before we before we jump ahead to the.
Future Dan, do you think you have?
You think you have a game that'soverlooked that you played to to
see if a if square pegs would have heard of it.
He's he's like, no, there's there's nothing I, there's

(53:37):
nothing I can out a hipster. Him on if you want me to try and
out a hipster him I'm not going to be able to do that for sure.
My only my only chances is. Art of fighting on the Super
Nintendo. I love art of fighting, so SNK.
Of fighting games. There's someone else that's
played it besides me. I can't.
Believe. Love, love, love.
SNK fighters, SNSNK fighter thatthat that was almost what the

(54:00):
topic was was SNK fighters. For the record I love SNK so I
my the the only full set I will ever go for is a Neo Geo pocket
color. SNK is like one of my all time
favorite developers. I have played every single king
of fighters, every art of fighting, every fatal fury,
every samurai showdown or samurai spirits, whatever you
want to call it. They, they, they make my

(54:23):
favorite fighting games. I, I love the art of fighting
series. I, I, I love Rio.
I love that's just the, the whole yes, I'm 100% down for art
of fighting. I, I can geek out about SNK
fighters all day. I was trying to glance at your
your YouTube page and see. If he if you beat him to it on
one of the IT may be in there somewhere, but it wasn't, it
wasn't at the top of the searches, but somewhere I'm I'm

(54:45):
sure it's in there. I don't actually know if I have
featured art of fighting. And I need to clarify that and
fix that. I I know I've had Fatal Fury, I
know I've had King of Fighters, I know I've had Samurai Spirits
or showdown on there, but I don't know that I've done Art of
Fighting. That was the only a lot of that.
Comes from the fact that a lot. Of people get tired of me
geeking out about SNK fighters on the channel because they're

(55:07):
like oh God, here he goes again,who cares?
All the time people learned about you.
Know people, the Street Fighter and.
Learned about Hadouken. I, I learned about a Hadouken
on, on art of fighting and, and my dad, you know, my dad
wrecking me as Mickey because he'd sit in the corner, hold
down and just uppercut and, you know, and five year old me, no

(55:27):
idea what to do about this. It was nothing I could do as he
sat there hitting me with a moonshot that he'd do it.
I had, I had no chance. I had no chance.
That was it for me. I I need everyone to brace
themselves now. Because we're about to take a
like a 180 on this podcast 'cause we're going to talk about
your future game. Like not only we're talking
about champion time, but but we're also talking double O 7

(55:51):
first lights. We're going right, we're going
right into the future and and also like the the most
mainstream of any game we've discussed up until up until this
point too. Yeah, definitely I.
So I'm, I'm a sucker for Bond games and, and just a sucker for
Bond in general as a character. I think he's he's a fascinating
kind of study of, of a flawed hero.

(56:14):
And, and, and I am really interested to see what stuff
they pull from the novels and stuff from the early movies to
put into this movie or into thisgame to kind of like to show
what kind of builds the character of James Bond and, and
show where his kind of motivations and his abilities
and kind of interests came from.But it also just looks really

(56:37):
flippin cool, man. Like it just, it looks so good.
I, I am I, I love action. Games like that.
I love games that I can just kind of turn my brain off in and
just have fun and go for a ride.And and that to me is, is going
to be something that I, I, I don't.

(56:58):
I, I, I I'm. Jinxing it now by saying it's
like I don't see how it can disappoint me because I my
expectations are I want to have fun that's it there there's a
pedigree here and I'm. Intrigued by the multiple the
the the multiple options for some of these things like are
you going to go stealth? Are you going to go in action
hero like I I kind of curious how many options we're going to

(57:22):
have with so I mean, obviously there's going to be some car
chases and things like that thatare going to be that are going
to be there and they they look cool.
I'm just kind of. Curious yeah, yeah, it just I, I
with them being the developers of Hitman and some of the videos
they were showing, I'm like, OK,you can be blunt and just like
shoot somebody and run for the exit or you can be stealthy and

(57:43):
cool or yeah it's I'm kind of curious how exactly this is
going to play out. This is it's intriguing it's a
good it's a good place for the property to have ended up.
I we don't need another just generic first person shooter,
which is where some of them ended up at and they're going to
like you said, they've they they're they've got the Bible
they're going to they're going to bring out a bond over the

(58:05):
years and figure out what they want to take from it.
So I'm intrigued. I'm very intrigued.
I think there's just. There's something special.
About that character and there'sso much opportunity, especially
with a young James Bond to do things that people don't expect
because we all have that kind ofvision of what Bond or who Bond

(58:27):
is as a character based on whatever 1 you watched first
growing up, whether that was Brosnan or Connery or and the
time it was released in questiontoo like there's the.
Eras are all like they're entirely different now looking
back over the last, you know, 60years.
Like what does what does twenty 20s Bond look like?
Which they're still trying to figure out in the movies anyway,

(58:48):
that's good. They're they're just looking at
twenty 30s Bond now, I guess. But and I'm just curious.
I didn't see where it goes like it's.
It's, it's a, it's a game that is ripe with opportunity, But,
and, and I think that's kind of the most exciting thing because
it's not directly tied to a filmproperty.
It's not directly tied to something that we know already,

(59:09):
so there's so many different directions they can go with it
and I'm excited to see what theydo all.
Right. Well, this is the point where we
take a quest, a question from the channel.
Three history books we pick for you to discuss.
And I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, frankly, you're probably going
to end up getting two of these because I, I, I want to know
your answer for one, but I also kind of want to know your answer
for the other. So we're going to go with the

(59:31):
the first one. The first one is we titled this
quest one and done a game that you love but you're never going
back to and with your your arsenal of games throughout
time. I'm.
Very curious, what's your what'syour answer to is is for this?
That's a hell of a question. It's like there's games.

(59:55):
I think you said your chronosureyou're replaying.
Annually Suikoden 2 You're playing annually, but like,
what's the game? You're like, this was great, but
I am never picking this up again.
I'm never picking this up again.So I I think I'm I.
Would go back to. The NES for this and I would
probably say Willow from Capcom on the Nesi loved the movie.

(01:00:18):
I loved the game when I was younger, but I don't ever need
to play it again like it was something that existed until a
few weeks. Ago at the.
Retro game shop when I was like wait.
There was a Willow NES game, Yeah, and it's great.
It it really is. But it's.
It's not one of those games where it's like, oh, I need to,
I need to best my score. I need to get there quicker.
It's like, oh, I I told the story.

(01:00:40):
That's cool. Mission accomplished.
Yeah, I, I think. Like the only.
Like I'm looking, I'm looking over at my games right now.
I think the only other one that might might come close to that.
Man, I don't even know. Ray, what was yours while he's

(01:01:01):
thinking? OK, I'll never.
Maybe Elden Ring he. Loved it.
Amazing. And then I thought, no other
builds, no other runs, No. Just no, I don't I, I never get
into. I never.
Get into like playing a game with different styles, like I
I'm going to hit things with my very large sword and I'm going

(01:01:23):
to be very happy doing. That and I don't.
Feel like learning something else like this is OK.
It was great, loved it. It was like like 80 something
hours. Thoroughly enjoyed the game,
first one. I ever played and I was like.
That's good, I'm happy, it's wonderful.
Square Pegs does not look relieved by his time in
pondering. He doesn't look like he figured
it out. No, no, I've actually, I, I,
I've hit. Upon it and it's a series it's a

(01:01:45):
series I really like and it's I'm looking at it as like, yeah,
why did I buy those again? I'm I'm never going to play them
again. The Disgae games, the tactical
strategy games from NIS soft, I,I think, or NC soft, I don't
remember which, but it was I I really enjoy them once they're

(01:02:07):
heavy, They're they're there's there's a lot of game going on
there. There's a lot of stuff under the
hood that you have to manage andit, it almost becomes a chore
after a while. Like it becomes work and, and
I'm good like man, I work, I already work and you're not you
ain't paying me to play this guy.
I'm good like it's but I bought all the remasters on the.

(01:02:28):
Switch and and I. Realized I was like, yeah, I
bought all of those and played them for like 10 minutes to get
footage for my channel and that and abandon all hope after that.
Like they just sit on the shelf.I will probably never play them
again. They they will look lovely.
They're being dusted. If they do, they look fantastic.
But yeah, it's. Like I played them on their
original system releases like PS2 when they came out, but I, I

(01:02:50):
doubt I'll ever play them again.All right.
And I I promise because I I I. Wanted to ask this one of you 2
again, only because of your sheer the sheer volume of
knowledge. We want you to build your your
moving squad. You got to move.
You need 3 gaming characters to help you execute the move all
right. No one from moving out.

(01:03:12):
Not, not, no. Not from out game.
Let me see here Murray from Sly.Cooper because he's got the
muscles he can carry. The furniture I will go sly.
Cooper was not a series I expected to hear from that.
OK, that makes sense. Love that.

(01:03:32):
Love that franchise again. Another one that's just like,
just in the ground. So it's just floating somewhere.
I'm going to go Doctor. Light.
From Mega Man because he has teleporting capabilities.
Because I mean, Mega Man teleports out after every level,
so hopefully he can just ZAP me from point A to point B.
That'll save on a lot of gas. And then I will go go with Mario

(01:03:56):
just because it'd be fun to hangout with him.
Like, I mean, he's a plumber too.
Like, so in my new place, he cancheck out the pipes to make sure
everything's working. He's done construction, he's
done demolition, he's done that A.
Lot he's he's listen, somebody took back he can pop a couple
pills. You're good.
Yeah, exactly. I don't know that he has.
A doctorate? I don't know that he should be
prescribing any painkillers to people.

(01:04:18):
You know, I, I. When I put in that quest, I
severely underestimated the people finding different ways to
teleport all their stuff. And like a lot of portal guns.
Oh, that's that's a great call. There was a couple.
There was a couple others. I thought it was like a Doctor
Strange and I I'm still not too sure.

(01:04:40):
I don't know if you can portal things and it land safely
because you you do have like physics and it has to fall
somewhere. Well, not doing that, but you
need you need moon rocks to justbe able.
To make the. Portals.
Happen. This isn't that simple.
That's true. So a lot of lot.
Of teleporting that I was not I did.

(01:05:01):
I was not expecting when I put that quest out there, it was
creative. It was creative.
I just, I had not thought of it.I'm I'm going to shout my son
using Olamor and the Pikman for his.
I was like, oh. That's that's what I didn't
think of. That's good job.
That's brilliant. That's a reasonable one that
that actually makes a lot of sense.
Even though, according to Nintendo, they're so tiny that
you basically can't see them if you're a human being.
Well, they're just invisible. It's not.

(01:05:21):
They're just so invisible because.
That now, now we know, thanks tothat series of shorts they put
out, they're just invisible. They're invisible, but they are
very small, like I don't know how.
What's, what's the what's their weight like?
What's the ratio of strength to size to them?
Well, depends. Are they are they like different
the purple, the purple are, are they hefty?

(01:05:42):
Ones 20 time ants yeah they're the ones that they're heavy
themselves and they can they cancarry the bulk, but the little
guys I don't I don't I'm not doing this I don't I don't know
that the pigment are moving my fridge though, like.
That's let's get 100 purple boys.
They're moving your fridge 100 purple.
Boys are moving your fridge. That's true.
This is someone must have. Someone has to have some
research. Out there on the I guarantee

(01:06:04):
there's some some random websiteout there of a guy.
Who's like this is how many Pikmin you would need to move X
objects if it takes 20 Pikmin tomove an orange.
Then what it which that means ittakes 2 purple boys to move an
orange. Whatever do they have?
Do they move anything that you could that you could measure?
In the game, so I only remember the first one and it was like,
you know, those circles with numbers on them, I don't know.

(01:06:26):
It's like you, you've got like cell phones, you've got by
three, you've got. Like the fruits and oranges.
Yeah, like by three, they're moving like a flip phone.
They're moving stuff you can geta weight on.
So we can measure this. I'm not doing this this.
Is this is no My head hurts. My head literally hurts now.
See, I didn't know that I I onlyplayed the first a little bit,
so I. Didn't know that we could
actually measure this stuff out.We're gonna have to.

(01:06:49):
Yeah. It's not, it's not fictional
ship parts, no. By 234.
They're moving actual gear like they're moving, they're moving
human like that's how you know they're, you're moving human
debris and detritus. They're they're removing
artifacts from our societies. So yes, absolutely this.
This is good to know. All right, is your favorite

(01:07:13):
feature this? Asinine.
Conversation we just had no. I'm sorry.
Move on, Ray. Ask him.
Ask him his favorite feature. What's what's been your favorite
feature on channel? 3 So outside of the the the the.
General statement of of just being in a group of like minded
people and not having to sift through just piles of crap on

(01:07:35):
Facebook or threads or Twitter to find people that like the
same things I do. I have so much fun with Target.
I I I asked like. The I wake up.
Excited for new target maps. Like I I am so happy to be like,
oh, like I know this one where OK, where was that building in

(01:07:56):
spider man? I know where that was.
It's it's, it's such a genius idea for a simple game.
For people to. Play that just instantly gets
them involved and gets them intothe mindset of what Channel 3 is
about. Because it's, it doesn't matter
what kind of game you're into. There's an opportunity to find
something there that you can flex your expertise on.

(01:08:19):
And even if you mess up, which Ido almost every single time I
play, it's, it's, it's such a simple thing that I just, I just
love it. Like all the, all the mini games
are great, like trivia's fun. It's, it's just one of those
things where it's like, man, youcan tell that the people who
make the site give a crap about the hobby.

(01:08:40):
It's not just something that wasmade as a as a side hustle or
something like that. It was, we're passionate about
gaming. Let's celebrate gaming with
people that are also passionate about it. 2 Two things thing one
did did. You find out about the.
Bonus you can get now with target no if if you complete
every target there's now. 100. Point bonus and it ranks.

(01:09:05):
It ranks and gives crown leaderboard for the best average
each day, which Ray was losing with.
Oh I sucked today, but Ray took first place today last I saw.
Oh no, I didn't frizz frizz whenI had it done.
Got a 90.4 which I I was thinking like can anyone get
like a + 90? Yeah, he did it 3 Three things I
guess. Thing, thing 2 Ray and I.

(01:09:27):
Put a bunch of the targets in and we still screw up the
targets. So like, we've had days where
like I put it in the night before and Ray usually puts in
the Fortnite maybe a day or two in advance and he'll screw it up
the next day. And thing three.
What's the game that we need to get in Target?
Oh. I I've liked the.
Zelda Inclusion. I've liked seeing like.

(01:09:48):
Breath of the Wild tears the Kingdom in there I see I I liked
it when breath of the wild todaywe had.
I want to say link. To the past was there a couple
of weeks ago. Yeah, like the the.
Links are also we have link to the past echoes of.
Wisdom, Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom are all in
there and they they rotate with the series.
So like they'll OK, they're all like Zelda just has a slot.

(01:10:12):
Every day. Nice, it's guaranteed.
I think Uncharted would be fun to have in there.
I think those maps are are, are nice and interesting and I, I
think they're tough enough that people aren't instantly going to
go. I know exactly where that is.
I think two or three might have a shot at that.
One's kind of bland jungle. It it is, it's, it's all kind of

(01:10:32):
the same thing with the exception of like EU boat.
Yeah, yeah. And you do it and four as well
there. There's some good stuff there as
as well as the spin off that I can't remember the name of.
Yeah, I yeah, I know it's a lostlegacy.
Las Vegas. Yeah.
Exactly something with some maps.
Like any any maps and like it's.Probably the the the Uncharted.
They're very linear levels too. But if I get a couple of maps of

(01:10:56):
the the levels, Assassin's Creed, yeah, that you know what?
That's. Actually, that's the one.
I'm surprised I actually should.Probably turn on Assassin Creed.
Built in landmarks. Watchdogs does.
You haven't. See, I'm just trying to figure
out enough people like watch. I have watched, you know, I had
Watchdogs booted up one day and I was considering it because

(01:11:17):
there are landmarks in Watchdogs.
Ubi, Ubisoft getting some love in here.
I might have to I I I love Ubisoft.
Always have. I might I might have to grab
then Assassin's Creed bundle. The next time it's on and turn
it on, I can get on the switch because it would have to be two
you had to do with #2 that's themost that's like the most Italy

(01:11:39):
one and the the first one is kind of suffers like what we're
talking about with. Uncharted, it's all just kind of
desert and bland. And it's, it's not like Origins
where it's like, OK, well, there's at least the great
Pyramids of Giza. I there's some landmarks there.
I can figure it out. It's like that might be
Jerusalem, that might be Baghdad.
I don't really know. Like it's.

(01:12:03):
Yeah, it has. It has to be two.
It could be two or or the one that's. 3 but it's not called 3.
The third in the series probablydoes it well.
Brotherhood, it's probably yeah.Brother Brotherhood or two
probably looks really nice. Those those are the ones I would
I would guess with the Ubisoft. They're good for the open world.
That's the, that's the nice partwith those.

(01:12:25):
Yeah. Oh, honestly, I have.
I could turn that one on. Honestly would be good.
Oh, these are good ideas. All right on these good ideas.
We've made it to the end of another one of your three square
pegs. Thanks for being with us.
Make sure people to check out that Black Friday sale that is
happening at MRG Expo, comyes.com, MRG Expo dot.

(01:12:47):
Com November. 27th through December 1st, Black Friday
through Cyber Monday, all kinds of deals that are happening that
are not totally announced but will be announced in the short
future. And I guess and again MRG Expo
is happening 2026 August, I don't have the 29th.

(01:13:08):
It's right there. It is there.
It's in the notes. August 29th in Kalamazoo, MI at
the Delta Hotels Marriott in Kalamazoo we'll be.
There channel 3. We'll run tournaments, 70 plus
tables between. It's going to be a great time.
Michigan retro game Expo. We're excited.
We're really excited and I I'm again like.

(01:13:28):
I said at the at the top of the show, I'm, I'm so just
appreciative that you guys are, are on board and they're going
to be part of this. And you know, we, we, we stay
all the time on YouTube that ourrising tide lifts all ships.
And I think that anything that we can do to help you guys is,
is, is, is going to be somethingthat helps us as well.
So yeah, we get, we getting yourwife, we getting game, Dad, We

(01:13:50):
got to get, we got to get. Others on in the in the in the
months leading up. So there'll be there'll be more
of the team coming in. Chris very badly game, dad very
badly wants to come. On he he was.
He was a little bit a little bitcomplainy today when I told him
I was. Like yeah, I've got the C.
Three podcast and he's like why didn't they ask me to come on I
was like we're getting there calm down calm down TomTom

(01:14:12):
we're. Spacing it out, he'll.
Be in the new year, we'll get him.
Look, they're starting with the weak link right now.
They'll get you on later. Mr. Mr. Mr. Chatty Pants.
Don't worry about it. You're OK.
I I will tell you guys when whenwhen game dad is on.
Pack a lunch and make sure you're hydrated because the boy
could talk. He'd have to break I still.

(01:14:32):
Currently hold the record. For the longest subject of an
episode. So yeah, he's got to take me
down, which is not going to. Yeah, what I It's true.
When I asked Dan questions, he just doesn't stop.
I begrudgingly said I didn't ever want to do it and then when
it. Was redeemed as a ticket
counter. That somebody made me do it.
I had the longest episode there was, so whatever.

(01:14:53):
Oh man, you can find a podcast. That's C3 dot GG slash.
Podcast dropping every Wednesdaymorning at 3:33 AM Eastern on
all the major platforms including Spotify, YouTube Music
and Apple Podcast. I'm Ray.
Dan puts this all together. Our theme song is by Caster
Garden and for our executive producer, Joel Willis.
Have a good day everybody. How do you we we we went out to

(01:15:20):
lunch with Lindsay? LL Cool Games and her family and
I was like, yeah, doing the the C3 podcast that she was so
excited like I was like, God, you're more excited about that
than you were seeing us for the first time in two months.
The the the funniest part to me we because she she's done one.
We did one with Nomad of the Retro Wildland.

(01:15:40):
And the funniest part to me was her using because we, we stick
with code, you know, we stick with gamertags and code names
because you know, like you, you've got your name plastered
on your, your page, so it doesn't matter.
But there are other people like,you know, like I'm coming from
large scale corporate retail before, you know, before kind of
changing some life stuff a year and a half ago.

(01:16:01):
So like I always, I mean, I keptmy name anyway, but I know there
are people out there. I'm like, I don't want to dox
anybody or like, you know, raisea teacher, not thinking he's his
name's out there. He doesn't care.
But like, I don't want to dox anybody.
So always just stick with with names.
And she's like Frank, I'm like, who the fuck?
Oh, wait, that's a nomad. That's right.
I was just that's the guy to spend.
An hour and a half talking. To OK, nevermind.
OK, so just in my head, it was just it's just funny how those

(01:16:23):
those things go and any with her, like she again, she's
someone with like her name out there anyway, but I always call
her a little cool games anyway, So just funny hearing Lindsay in
the mix of it. And even we we we got we got
together with a bunch of people and since he last year, we had
our own like nowhere near the scale of convention you guys are
planning. And even when we're doing this
summer, like no, we're we're we're aiming smaller.
But like someone, someone came up to me and was like, oh, hey,

(01:16:45):
how you doing? I'm introducing myself.
They introduced himself as and I'm like, I guess I don't know
this guy. And then sure enough, a day
later I found out his gamertag. I'm like, why did you introduce
yourself as? I don't know people by we all go
by names on here. Don't don't go no, don't do
that. That's not how you introduce
yourself on here. But anyway, Savannah Bananas hat

(01:17:07):
it is. No, he's just a fan of the
actual banana. So a fan of bananas.
It is one of my favorite fruits.I'm trying to get to a game.
Channel 3 is the future.

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