Scums Wish Discussion & Review | Anime Watch Club - What Do You Say Anime!?

Episode Transcript
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(00:23):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome toAnime Watch Club, a biweekly
group discussion and review. We're the host of the Why You
Say Anime podcast nominate and vote on shows either we haven't
seen our shows are hopefully during great discussion.
Today's episode the wait a minute.
This is an Oshi Noko pals of the2017 of the way you see anime.
We'll be reviewing the 2017 anime scub as a wish we got a
lot to dive into today. So it's quick introduction.

(00:45):
We got Jay Miles and starting off the discussion is the new
men's basketball coach of the Hawaii Rainbow Warriors, Mr.
Patty Mills himself. Pat, take it away.
What's this reference? Patty Mills is now the head
coach of the men's OH Hawaiian basketball team.
Oh, that's right. They're called the Rainbow
Warriors. OK.

(01:05):
That's why I was confused. I I totally blanked on that and
I am Patty Mills. It's Patty Mills back with you.
Another episode of Anime Watch Club.
Where Yeah, we reviewed Scum's Wish, a show from the Winter
2017 season done by Studio Lurch, sourced from a manga with
genres of drama, romance, love, Polygon School and a sane in

(01:28):
demographic. There is mild nudity as well.
So R rated good old Scum's Wish.Yeah, let's get off with our
first impressions. Miles, why don't you start us
off? And would you recommend the show
as well? Sure.
So I this is so stupid I nominated the show to punish Cat
who couldn't make because Cat hates the show.

(01:53):
Anyways, I was pretty impressed by the 1st 3 episodes of this.
I thought it was pretty fun. I think that the characters are.
It's interesting because in shows like this and like anime
in general, you generally never get like a pile of like truly, I
don't know, like bad people is too much, but like incredibly
messy and not put together and dysfunctional humans.

(02:16):
And we got that in this. That was that was that was fun
to watch for a while. Would I recommend this?
I think I'm going to take my no recommendation in an angle that
no one else who might be doing no will do.
And I'll have to get into it later because it's not based on
the 1st 3 episodes, which I, which I enjoyed, but I, I think
the show sort of falls off over time a bit.

(02:36):
You know, so I'm, I'm cheating alittle bit here.
But I think I would say generally no, though there will
be people who really like this. But I think you'll know who you
are. And instead of being like, you
know, I want to, you know, I'm doing the opposite of what I do.
No, but also you'll know if you will.
Supposed to yes, you know if youwon't.

(02:58):
Yeah, yeah. I'd recommend it to people who
like Scum's Wish. Yeah, there you go.
Right. Like, yeah, sweet.
Well, Jay, what about you? My camera cleared up just in
time. All right, so first 3 episodes
of this show, I was like, oh wow, these people are all like

(03:19):
scum. Who would have thought the title
was accurate? They're all being scummy and
this teacher is a psychopath. Those were basically my first
impressions. This is a character who I think
that she will, I'm sorry to harpon her in particular, but I
think that the character of her,of Akane in particular is

(03:39):
somebody that will very much like make or break someone's
experience with this show if they are willing to like because
some people will just see how she acts and be so disgusted by
that. They're like, I don't want to
see a character do this for 12 episodes and they're probably
valid. But me however, I was like, God
forbid a girl have fun. I would recommend this show.

(04:01):
There is so much trash that happens in this.
The character designs are fantastic because it's, you
know, artwork by Mingo, same person who did Oshinoco.
So like you're going to have great character designs and that
sort of thing. I think if you're somebody who
likes melodrama like Degrassi orsomething like that, like if you
watch Degrassi and you just wanted it to be like more fucked

(04:25):
up, but also like way more in depth with the characterization,
then I think that this is something for you.
So I think that yeah, I would recommend it.
I love the Kane, like so much fun of the character.
Well, I'm sure we'll talk about it later.
She's my favorite character. She I think she's very

(04:45):
interesting too. Damn, she's.
Nobody. Yeah.
All right, Pete, what about you?So coming into this show, the
only real person in like our community that has stress scums
wish is AM. I've known AM since he's about
14 years old. So I was saying, hey, this 14
year old really likes this show,which means I'm probably not

(05:08):
going to like this show. So I came into it thinking like
I had all the notions in my headthat like this show's going to
suck, like I'm not going to likeit at all.
And then I watched the first episode and AM was right the
entire time. A show that he has in, or I
guess is the manga specifically,is in his top ten.
And I thought that was ludicrous.
And then after watching the showa little bit, I was like, no, I

(05:31):
think I get it. I think what this show does in
the first couple of episodes compared to other shows is
really establish the the cast asreal people.
And they're not tropes. They're not playing characters
in a play. To me, they felt like real,
genuine human beings, which is something different from

(05:51):
something like Domestic Girlfriend, something different
from like White Album 2 where I have issues with the characters
in that show. Scum's Wish wiped away
everything from those shows thatI hated and cemented this as an
incredible show. Incredible.
I saw a great tweet that said ifyou don't have some personal

(06:13):
connection to genuine slop in your top like 50 anime of all
time, you're not a real fun. You're not.
You're not a real anime watcher.You need a show like Scum's Wish
to come across your palette and really open door.
I love this show. I would absolutely recommend it
to since AM. I'm using AM as the like the

(06:34):
pedestal from who I got recommended to the first time.
If you're above 14, watch this show.
I think the experience is all over the place and you can get a
lot out of it. So 2 thumbs up for me.
I'll be talking a lot of positivity about scum Squish.
Don't watch it in your living room in front of your parents or
anything. Well lucky I'm a grown ass man
and I don't live with my parentsif.

(06:55):
If you're. 14 I'm saying. I was like, what?
I'm not all right. Wait, see, you're grown.
In some areas. Sorry about his feet.
All right, I. Got huge feet?
Big man, Tall man. Baby hands, though my hands are

(07:15):
baby small. I'm sorry to hear that.
Babies have really tiny hands. Yeah, all right.
And yeah. Have you guys gotten sick of
romance anime insisting nothing but innocent teenagers blushing
like tomatoes at the mere thought of holding hands?
Sorry, I was referencing our Malreview game.

(07:37):
Yes, you were. And, and our and the, the review
that I read for our game. I guess that's minor spoiler,
but if you listen to this, I'd hope you'd listen to that by
now. But yeah, this is this is Scum's
wish. I found myself very frustrated
with this show. I don't know if I would
recommend it. I vehemently disagree with Pete

(07:59):
that this show does. But I I don't disagree in the
sense that this show has well written characters because I do
think they are well written and they're they're interesting.
I think these characters are theexact same as the White Album
and Domestic Girlfriend characters in terms of how
they're presented and how they are they're done.
I also think that this show gives resolution to these

(08:22):
characters that I don't really know if they earn, I guess, you
know, like I, I don't feel like it fully fleshes out.
Yeah, like Pete said, this dragsyou down.
This is sloppy. It's melodramatic.
I didn't feel like there was a lot of resolution by the by the
end, and I'm not going to specify anything around that to
avoid spoilers and we'll get into it later.
But so I found myself being morefrustrated with the show then I

(08:45):
was excited by it. But I do think a lot of the
compliments other people have paid is completely fair to it.
Like again, the characters are like their arcs are interesting
and they they their dynamics areinteresting.
I think they are designed reallywell as well.
I think they do look great. They are I it didn't even like
connect to my head, But I do remember sitting there being

(09:06):
like, oh, these guys look like Oshinoko characters.
And it's like, say, there you go.
Booty, though, looks exactly like Aqua, yeah.
Yeah, they even always do the eye thing that they do.
It's like the. Exactly.
So I was, I was enjoying it on that front for sure.
I, I, I don't think there was anything like inherently wrong

(09:29):
with the show. I just found myself getting more
frustrated with it than I was enjoying it.
Not the whole time though I really did it.
I enjoyed it enough that that that was an easy watch.
So I would not recommend this unless you specifically came out
of domestic Girlfriend or White Album 2 or some other sort of
melodrama. But just needing more, needing
something else and not wanting to read the manga for it.

(09:51):
It's otherwise though, I really wouldn't recommend it.
So I guess I kind of pulled the miles there, but I I'm in the
same boat where I I don't think that an average anime fan is
going to want to watch this. It gets very I I was watching
this in the living room and Ashley's like this is like
softcore porn. Like what is this?
I was like a little bit little bit not really, though.
I I don't know what like maybe embrace debate.
Isn't softcore porn a little more hardcore than this?

(10:14):
I don't know. I really don't.
Yes, you can see genitals and softcore porn, there's just no
penetration because anyone want to know the.
Specifics. Thanks, Miles.
Thanks, Miles. So there's an answer to my
question, so I'll have to tell Ashley afterwards.
No, I wasn't watching softcore porn on our 98 inch living room.
TV this didn't even have titties.
Mentioning the 98 inch TV. Yeah, it's it's, well, that's

(10:36):
how I like pay it off. Like every time I mention it, I
set up another 33 grand of TCL. Yeah, there we go.
No, it's not that much. It was really nice.
Great deal. Love it, love it.
And you everyone should have one, I think.
But yeah, All right. I guess that's us, our first
impressions. I think we had 2 1/2 nose and 1
1/2 yeses, I guess if that breaks out correctly.

(10:59):
And then yeah, let's do some spoilers going forward.
So yeah, it's decently spoiler heavy, I would say.
Yeah, but you've been warned. Let's get started right away.
Miles, did you want to do a little quick synopsis or are you
once? You are Synopsis We follow 2
main characters, Hanabi and Moogie.
They have something in common. They are both in love with

(11:20):
someone and they know for a factthat it cannot be reciprocated
for various reasons, mostly thatit's their teachers.
So Moogie is in love with the music teacher at the school,
Akane, who used to be his tutor maybe back when she was in
college or whatever And then Hannah B is in love with Mr.
Kanai who is her homeroom teacher and is also a childhood

(11:44):
friend from the past who she grew up with.
They're like, what if we just dostuff together to ignore the
fact that our love is unrequitedinstead of dealing with it in
any sort of healthy and normal way?
And that is what kicks off ScumsWish as more and more unrequited

(12:05):
love people get piled on to thissandwich.
Now I'm hungry. Yeah.
So that that's the premise. That's that's how it goes.
We have people who know that their relationships are who
they're chasing after it, it will never work out.
And they're trying to to deal with that because they don't

(12:27):
want to admit it to themselves. So they they try some other
coping mechanisms and it goes, OK.
Do we have a first talking pointwe would like to discuss for
this show? Pete, I know you were excited to
talk about this. Oh yeah, yeah.
So we'll put this in quotation marks.
The messy aspect of this show, Ithink we've seen it.

(12:49):
We've done Domestic Girlfriend. I think we could kind of all
agree the show is a little messy.
Scum's Wish, I think does something similar in this vein
where in at least in anime terms, we don't see the level of
like sexual intimacy contact like we do in Scum's Wish.
That's why we'll be referencing,I feel like we'll be referencing

(13:10):
Domestic Girlfriend a lot because there's not many shows
like in this category that we have.
So I had issues with Domestic Girlfriend and how it handled
sort of like it's messy. It's like an example would be in
that show they kiss in school, like they just like hide behind
like a barrier or whatever. And then they kiss the teacher
and the student. And to me that's like messy.

(13:33):
I feel like Scum's Wish kind of makes it less messy by giving us
a lot more context to what's going on in this, like their
sexual like desires and actions that they take to it.
So I want to get your guys thoughts on how you felt that
they managed some of the messiness of the show.

(13:54):
Would you mind giving a specificexample like in contrast to the
domestic girlfriend? Actually a great example.
So there's Yep. So there's a scene in the show
that I, I I think is great is when Mugi confronts Akane in
school and he does like the exact opposite of the main
character in Domestic Girlfriend.
He he makes sure the lights are off, the door shut and locked

(14:17):
before like proceeding with anything that would be like
ground for termination for the teacher.
And I think like, that is something where it's adding a
level to it where it may seem more real to me than Domestic
Girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, I know it's
preposterous, but it's like the the show is at least trying to
incorporate like a real life scenario and things people would

(14:39):
do to hide the secrets. It's not just as in as in the
open as something like Domestic Girlfriend was.
I have stuff, but if people haveother things, I I can go because
I don't know. One of the issues I have with
this show is that I don't know if this is a hot take or not.
It's really not that messy. It's not a messy show and it

(15:01):
should be. It should be a messy show.
It's trying to be a messy show, but as time progresses in this
show, it just can't help but clean up after itself.
And that's not what a messy showdoes.
That's not what Domestic Girlfriend does.
You know the people in Domestic Girlfriend are horny and messy.
They don't think about the consequences, right?

(15:23):
These people do. And you know who thinks about
consequences? Fucking cowards.
I don't say losers. And, you know, and who cleans up
after themselves, the same typesof people.
And that's why, yeah, these people make a mess, but they
clean up. You're using the, you know, the
restaurant next or whatever. That's not a thing that people

(15:45):
use after someone else. But say it was, it would look
pretty much in Shipshape. And I, I don't like that that
was this aspect I didn't like about the general messiness of
this was that I don't think we ever got any like pow bam
moments of like someone walking in on someone else, hooking up

(16:08):
with someone else. If you got to have that, in my
opinion, when you're doing it, you have like a fucking love
Octagon going on. Surely it's going to happen at
some point. What about the students catching
Akane at the restaurant? Is that that's not really we
there's just a teacher on a date, right?
Yeah, true, which like then Hanabi get figures it out and

(16:33):
deduces stuff and as you know, like she knows.
But the other teacher, no one else, none of the other students
there know that that I'm lookingfor their names.
Narumi, the other male teacher is interested in like they're,
she doesn't know that they're, she's leading her on basically
like they, they don't, the otherstudents don't know that.
So it's not necessarily messy. It's just like, oh, that's who

(16:54):
Akane is dating or, oh, that's who Sensei is like going with.
Yeah, I, I agree with you in that sense, Miles, that it
didn't have any of those bombastic moments.
I, I don't know if I was necessarily like waiting for
them, but I can, I can see that perspective, You know, like for
me, I, I feel like it was messy in the sense that like, Oh my
God, now this love interest is coming and now this love

(17:14):
interest is coming together and they're competing in their own
ways. And the the tension that was
there. But yeah, now that I think about
it, like you said there, there wasn't like a boiling over
point. It was either I guess Noriko and
Hanabi have have a have a littlebit of a like a a bout almost
your or verbal bout or joust, whatever.

(17:34):
But it doesn't get that deep versus I mean, domestic
girlfriend that you know, that'smy top 50 slop kind of show.
So I'm I'm going to die on that hill, but that show had people
slapping each other that had literal blood sisters ready to
like punch each other and like and kick and fight and scratch

(17:56):
like I was Oh, I eat that shit up like.
An example I guess I would give is there's like technically an
arc on this where Hanabi and Moogie are like officially
dating and then Hanabi just likecheats all over Moogie.
And then also they never break up.
And like they're both just like,actually, we weren't dating.
And there were like no consequences for all of that.

(18:16):
It just sort of fell apart because they weren't, they
didn't actually want to date each other, which to me is
boring. I think it's boring to do that.
You know, she was like, I'm dating Moogie and Sanaa was
like, no, you're not. And then she was like, I guess
you're right because like she was right.
But like, you know, I, I want, Iwant like there was this whole

(18:37):
thing about Moogie being like questioning if Hanabi had
actually lost her virginity because she still had her hymen
when because she had slept with Sinai.
So like when they tried to sleepwith it, it was like very
painful for her. And like, he was thinking about
that. So I was like, oh, will this
ever come to a head? And then it didn't.
He just never thought about it ever again.

(18:58):
And they sort of like disentangled the two main leads
after a while. I don't know, I just sort of
think they like, they tied a really messy knot and you're
like, how will this come apart? And then it came apart and
you're like. Yeah, like pulled one string and
it was. Like that was my view of it.
And like, this isn't to say thatthe aspects you appreciate Pete
aren't there. I think that a lot of the reason

(19:20):
this is able to happen is because these characters are
like very fleshed out and they think about things multi
dimensionally. And it's like, yeah, I, I said I
was dating Mookie, but like, yeah, I'm not really.
And Moogie knows that I'm not. And Moogie knows that he's not.
They know that they're not really into each other.
And they were just trying to do that.
So like, the consequences don't matter there.
But like, wouldn't it be really fun if they did?

(19:43):
Is is my thought. No, I, I get it.
And I think what we're especially like with Pat is like
right now we're being served 2 plates of slop and it's just
which slop do you prefer? And I like slop A and Pat like
slop B. Like I think, I think we're like
in that agreement that. The show itself presents its
stuff in in in the nature for itto to get messy, I should say.

(20:07):
Yeah, I guess my counter too or like upgrade way that I would
fix this show or change the showin a way that I would enjoy it
more is and I think they do talkabout it at one point.
Like is it Moogie I believe who starts to fall for Hanabi a
little bit at least? Or be like, oh, I could see why
someone would love her or like Iam starting to get feelings for
her. Should we actually try dating?

(20:29):
That happens like 5 episodes in and then it's just it's not
touched on again even all the way at the end when they're like
having that long discussion thatwe also don't get to hear by the
way, which made me so. Mad.
I was like. What, what, what?
What were they talking about? Well.
It was good for hours. Why don't you talk all of our
issues so. So why we hear that?
You know, like that drove me nuts.

(20:49):
Sorry that I didn't mean to dragon the show suddenly, but like,
that made me mad. But like in that moment when we
have heard them talking about like, oh, we wouldn't work
together. They just kind of like are like,
Oh yeah, and we decided we wouldn't work together.
And it's like, OK, well, that's cool.
But like, let's hear that, you know, like I want to because I I
thought that would have made it more interesting if they were
like, oh, well, let's try datingor even like midway through the

(21:12):
show too. They were like, you know what?
This really didn't work if this wasn't what we needed.
And and of course, it wasn't what they needed because duh,
you know, they were literally both you just using each other.
But that's kind of what happens in domestic girlfriend.
And then the Rurian was it Natsuki not and Naomi something
whatever the the male lead, the male lead and the smaller step

(21:33):
sister, they end up like dating each other because they were
like, oh, well, we were using each other for convenience, but
now we have feelings for each other.
So I don't know. I, that's, that's what I enjoyed
more 'cause it, I guess the way I looked at it was like it
contributed more to the cyclicalness of the slop and the
will they won't they rather thankind of just being an open and

(21:54):
closed book like it was in the show.
I think that the character work in this is much more interesting
than something than domestic girlfriend.
Like domestic girlfriend definitely had like it's a
different type of slop for sure.Like you said, Pete, and I think
that domestic girlfriend slop has like some kind of sprinkles

(22:17):
in it, if that makes sense. That might or sparkles or
something like that, that kind of pop out at you at points.
Where is this is a more mature wood barrel slop that's been
aged for 20 years. Yeah, and that's where the
characterization really adds to the slop, in my opinion.

(22:40):
I could not agree more. I like both of them though
they're both messy issues. Oh yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I I think I gave Domestic girlfriend an 8.
So it's like, it's like, I like the show.
Yeah. Oh, of course, just not as much
as I do. Yeah, no.
And I. You are the domestic girlfriend
guy. Well, I think the and like my
response to that Jay would be would be like the manga explores

(23:02):
that so much more with each of these characters, which I'm sure
that same thing. Has a lot of content in scums
wish from the manga or from? Whatever.
Yeah. And I do think that in, if
you're comparing the animated anime, the Scum's Wish anime
does do their characterization and, and depth of the characters
way better. But that's also in the, in the

(23:23):
time that they had. But I, I think like domestic
girlfriend, like there's a reason it's 280 chapters long,
you know, like there's, there's so much to it that really adds
to it, which I guess maybe I should go look at how long the
Scum's Wish manga is not that long. 60 chapters. 60, Yeah,
exactly. So very different, yeah.
Really quickly to compare these series to a Manger scene because

(23:46):
that's where my head went and what is more in the spirit of
Christmas than these these two things?
But I, I sort of use Scum's wishis if you you like have all your
Manger pieces and they're like beautifully sculpted and
everything, but they're just sort of like arbitrarily placed
around. And then like domestic
girlfriend, you have like more crudely, you know, done like

(24:09):
you're you're Mary and you're Joseph are more crude.
They're not as good. You know, you don't get the full
feel and gravitas of all of it, but the scenes are set up in a
better way. I guess that's like how I would
view it. You really get the Manger scene,
like of the interconnectivity ofit, whereas you get more about
the personal death, but like less about the connectivity of

(24:29):
it all in Scum's Wish. Because I do think things happen
that they just sort of drop in Scum's Wish, like plot points
and threads and all of that, which I found mildly
frustrating. Can I tell to tailgate off of
that which I agree with you likethat's a good analogy.
Or at least I see the analogy inyour hand.
Well done. Like that Asia guy the the.

(24:53):
Cousin the. Lesbian's cousin that's kind of
just dropped and not even reallyexplored that much.
That was like the main, that's the main one that jumps out to
me. I mean, even Noriko, I'm I'm
kind of, unless I just missed itcompletely, I guess she goes on
her date with Moogie and is like, this is my fantasy.

(25:14):
And I do like that it comes fullcircle with her enjoy like, oh,
making a beautiful dress for theshow.
She found her niece, She found what would make her happy.
But then they kind of like we instigate it with her and Hanavi
and I was like, well, wait, why did that start Hap again?
Like when did they even make amends in the 1st place versus
like her and Moogie? Noriko and Moogie made it made

(25:35):
sense. They they had, you know, both, I
guess, come to their sense, not come to their senses.
She understood that he just had no interest in her and that was
she was not the one for him. And she moved on.
But like, we didn't really see Mugi reflecting on that much at
all. It was almost like it never
happened, it felt like. It's almost like he's a
sociopath. I don't think he's that bad.

(25:56):
He's like sociopath number. 15 Idon't.
Think Mugi. I don't think I think Mugi is
kind of low on the list as far. As me too.
People for sure. I, I barely think he is, if at
all. I think he's like in a shit
situation then, you know, makes poor, poor decisions.
But like he's aware at least of I, I get, well, I guess that

(26:16):
would make you more sociopath intheory if you're aware, but like
he's aware that he's not making the perfectly correct decisions,
but he's not, at least from whatI remember.
Like, I don't think he's specifically taking steps to
harm someone else or to interfere with someone else's
life in the same way that Akane,you know, she is a.

(26:40):
He is a he's a victim more so than a lot of characters in this
honestly. I agree.
I agree completely. Do we want to talk about Akane?
Cause like what a character wellI feel.
Like we should just get into thecast in general.
Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, perfect transition.
Let's start with the best character in the show.
I mean, right. I mean is that hard to hard?
To argue I mean my best girl is not her best character is

(27:02):
different from Akane so. Oh, well, let's get into that
then. I mean, what, what do we have to
say about Akane first then? Because that was the transition.
Literal sociopath. I and I think it's really
interesting. I think it's cool to see a
character that just Watts or is so self aware and like
conniving. She's such a bitch.

(27:24):
Like it's so good. I'm going to, OK.
Oh boy. We're we're going to I don't
know. I don't even know if this is
like mask on or mask off miles. OK, one Akane doing all of that
is super hot 2. Yeah, of course.

(27:48):
Two, I think they fuck her character up so much at the end.
I think, I think the whole, I think the whole thing gets
because like, you can't fix a Kanay, right?
Mr. Kanay would be squashed under her fucking foot by the

(28:11):
end of this. Oh, someone was nice to me.
I'm not a sociopath anymore. No, no, this is not how it
works. It's just not how it works.
And so to me, I sort of grew to resent how they brought her
character along because it was God, OK, I don't know.

(28:33):
It's someone who has been in an emotionally abusive relationship
before. I try to not bring this up every
episode. Sometimes, you know it.
It was fun to see these aspects of a human in a way that I was
able to clock as supposed to fall victim to.
And then I was also excited because no one comes out of

(28:57):
these things on damage to see this little fucking glasses
wearing, polo wearing nerd get absolutely eviscerated by this
woman. And it didn't happen.
Instead he was like, I accept you.
And she was like, I've decided to stop being evil.
And that was annoying. I found that annoying.

(29:18):
She's just not as evil. I'm still going to cheat on you,
but I'm not that evil. Yeah, which I don't.
I'm not even going to lie, I feel like she'll probably have
stopped by. That's later.
On I have AI, have AI have a theory about this be impressive.
OK, we're theory crafting because we're when we were
talking about it, it's like, do you think Akane would ever cheat
again? Because when you see the last

(29:40):
scene of her going on the date with Moogie, that was more of
like a goodbye, like she's not going to fuck Moogie anymore.
But I think it's more along the lines of she raised what she's
looking for in men, where if shefound something of higher class,
she would feel like the whole thing with her character was
about finding, you know, like that hot.

(30:02):
She was chasing that high of like manipulating the men into
essentially like doing what she wanted.
And so she was always chasing that high with different guys,
which I love because I think that's like, I not going to get
personal, but I know somebody else like that.
And then somebody comes around and it is like it's, I wouldn't

(30:24):
say it's like necessarily like better than the other people,
but it's like different and it like changed her landscape.
And so because like people just change with like these
experiences. So like I think that like in the
long term, if she found somebodylike Kanai, she would probably
cheat again because I still thatlike that high chasing like
never goes away. See, I think, I think you've

(30:47):
stumbled upon a bit of a of a conundrum here.
Because the issue is this fucking guy, right?
He's got a hammer. He's not.
That's the only logical explanation.
Like straight. Up.
This dude is packing unlike anything you've ever seen.
It's like, it's just like, OK, so we we redo the shot and he's

(31:07):
explaining the Physiology of Penguins.
And then it just pans down and you just see that he has a third
fucking leg on their aquarium date.
He's the emperor Penguin. And he's like, they call it the
Emperor I. Call it the Emperor.
He he, he, he would not be banging Akane if she was

(31:28):
primarily dating somebody else. Correct.
So if she finds another guy likeit's just it won't it?
It's the issue. I don't know if she would she
tell him that's that's, I guess that's like something that would
need to be explored. I didn't feel like we didn't get
enough there. Yeah, that's how I felt at the
ending too. They were like, oh, she says to

(31:50):
his face after he proposes to her, I will cheat again or I
will cheat on you. And he says I don't care which.
He's the ultimate. I can fix her character like so.
Then it then frankly, it's not cheating.
I I. Agree 100%.
I mean, as long as he's, as longas you're not like pressuring

(32:12):
the person into it, Pat, right. Like as long as, as long as Mr.
Kanai here is actually 100% fucking fine with it just 'cause
he's the coolest dude ever, you know?
And he's like, I love you despite the fact that you're a
sociopath. It might be she's not a
sociopath because she's cheatingon him or anything.
She's a sociopath because she specifically wants to cheat on
people in order to hurt other people so that she feels better

(32:35):
than them. That's the thing.
And it and it's doing it, Yeah, because for fun, like to not not
out of a pleasure of oh, I got the fuck Kate Upton like great.
No, that's not at all what it was.
It wasn't that kind of cheating,which of course, I guess, oh,
you could argue like, oh, no, not all cheating is like that.
That's not or all cheating is like that.
It's not about the the literal sexual pleasure gain whatever

(32:58):
you want to say power move for sure.
There's always some of that going on, but no sure.
Yeah, like you said, she is specifically like she doesn't
even care about the sex. She doesn't care about the
intimacy at all. She's looking for the attention.
She's looking to cure her, But Ibelieve she described it as like
just never ending boredom, whichrespectfully to Kanai you, he is

(33:22):
boring as shit. Is he not So like I feel like
he's I which I I maybe that's the whole point.
He OH. He was so boredom it did like a
variable overflow on her and shebecame unbored.
He's not like white girls. He's not like.
Good. Fixer, right?
Yeah. You know, I don't know.
Sorry, sorry. He's so boring that he's not

(33:44):
boring to her, which, you know, because he's not like, oh, every
other. He's not like every other guy,
you know. Oh my God, we really are
getting. For context here, she she only
ended up with him because she wanted a high school girl to be
jealous of her. Yeah, she's insane.
I love her. I.

(34:06):
I fucked your teacher. Yeah, that was an amazing that
went. Crazy that went crazy.
Absolute cinema. Oh my God.
And I just feel like they dropped that at the end to make
her like palatable. And I don't want her to be
palatable. I want her to be awful and I
want her to make everyone aroundher worse because that is what

(34:28):
those people do. You either cut them out of your
life or you get drugged down to the mud to their level.
You do not fix them. Some therapist who gets paid a
bunch of money fixes them. It's.
I was gonna say I I think it waslike they wanted a Disney ending

(34:49):
with her and I don't think it meshed with her character.
And I think because, like, I do,as much as I fucking love this
show, I have qualms with her character and the cousin.
And I, I do think, I don't know,like if she slept with Moogie at
the end, I would maybe feel a little bit more complete with

(35:10):
her character. Like, it showed that like, she
never actually changed type of thing.
And so, yeah. Or if we saw like after the fact
too, though, that she was being faithful, like, you know, like
we. She like winked or something.
Right, whatever. Like something along those lines
that just showed us whether there was an actual answer to
whether she would act Like, was she lying when she said she

(35:33):
would cheat again or not? Like that's literally like what
I was so frustrated by. It was like there was no clear
answer. But shockingly, I'm frustrated
by. Like.
No. No, but but like, you know, like
this kind of ties into it. But I I like like her character
and this goes a little bit broader before we focus back in

(35:54):
on the characters. The way that the show ends with
the jumping around to like 2 years ago, four months ago, like
that was anyone else could kind of again, I, I did not like how
the show ended. I I think similarly what Miles
said like I was frustrated by the flashbacks kind of
overlapping because I was like it.
Was real flush forwards. They were all like.

(36:16):
So it went whatever, like September, November, January I
think. But there was literally labels
that said like 02 years ago, four months ago when?
Flashbacks. Like when we saw like, Moogie
hooking up with May, that was a flashback, right?
And at the very end. No, this was in the middle

(36:37):
episode, sort of when he like I.Think as talking about
specifically at the very. End.
Oh my bad, I thought you talked about the story in general.
My fault. No, no, Moogie was I thought was
interesting or May May and Moogie that was an interesting
like also something we didn't. I forgot she existed.
Yeah, yeah. That's what.
I'm saying my God. We didn't get even more in that
on that it just kind of like fizzled out and did nothing to

(36:58):
it. But no specifically in the in
the final episode. I believe it is a final episode
at least when it's all coming together, the you know, the
perfect, the the crazy knot is getting unraveled perfectly.
I like they, they flashback to when the students are throwing
like a congratulations party forthe two teachers getting
married. And then, and I can't remember

(37:20):
if that was before or after another flashback, but they were
right next to each other and they were like, I was like,
wait, so how does this and then they flashback forward to the
current time, like when they were they because they, they,
oh, she realized, she wakes up, realizes he was also sleeping
there, you know, in that in thatstorage room.
And then she goes back to that storage room at a different

(37:41):
time. And then she flashes back again
to that like, I was just so like, what?
What's going on here? I I, I don't know if I just
completely missed one specific thing or got lost, but yeah, I
don't know. Jay, can you help me unravel
this at all? There's a like seek not sequel
but epilogue manga called Scum'sWish Decor that goes through

(38:04):
like the next like 5 years of everybody's lives from what I
understand. I was doing a little bit of
reading on that. Do you guys want me to spoil
anything on that for you? Would you rather?
I think giving the warning here now, yes, spoilers.
Really quick, Really, really quick.
Jay. Would I find it entertaining?

(38:24):
No. OK, yeah, go ahead, spoil me.
Yeah. So yeah, that spoiler warned
next 30 seconds. Let's hear it.
Yep. OK, so basically scums wish
decor. The teachers are still married.
They're happily married even, but she is still doing her
affairs. She actually is, but she does
claim she's being picky about them.
I would like. Less so honorable, less so

(38:48):
venerable of her, you know, but.Then it gets revealed later on
that turns out she's never actually cheated on Narumi.
I read a manga that was exactly like what you just read.
Yeah. Oh my.
Just. Accidentally read Scum Switched.
Accord No, it's a terrible it's a terrible manga, but it's about

(39:10):
essentially like this. But then the the twist at the
end was they she never actually cheated on her boyfriend once.
It just made it seem like it waslike that was fucking terrible.
That, that is so funny from thisaspect where I feel she's like,
someone's going to review this, this manga, and they'll be like,
I've changed too much and they don't like me anymore.

(39:33):
Yeah, I'm totally still cheatingon him.
I didn't get fixed like immediately.
Yeah. OK, I did keep going, Jay.
Mookie is a fucking loser. He's got no ambitions, he
doesn't have any place to live, he just couch serves basically
or he sleeps with random women and stays with them until they
kick him out. He feels super alone but he

(39:53):
charged to get a part time job so he can get over Hanabi.
But then they meet at a concert and they end up deciding to give
it one more try and it basicallyends on saying is it going to
work out? Nobody knows, but they're going
to give it a shot. You know what they say, fifth
time's the charm. Well, the animal.
Everybody sane meets a random fucking lesbian college

(40:16):
professor and they end up together.
Thank God. Professor, of course, Of course.
Professor, we should just be happy it's not a guy.
I was so pissed at the end of this show where like the cousin
shows up and she like plays withher hair.
I'm like don't do that, don't dothat you are a lesbian.
Like they being a lesbian. Don't fucking cousin.

(40:38):
The cousin is but really low in my ranks as far as things go.
He's my worst character. That is your cousin.
He doesn't do anything. What is wrong?
Yeah, Pete hates 5 people. So I OK, there's like a thing in
the show where like he gets sickand I thought that he was faking
it so that that way they could get like a low in time, but he

(41:00):
was like actually sick. I was like, what was the point
of that? I thought that was that scene
was dumb. Can I can I say about Sanai
Sanai however? Sanai.
Atrium Sanai. Sorry, my bad.
I I hate her character so much Ifind.
Not this month, I. Find I sorry, I'm sorry it's

(41:21):
frustrating that so many LGBTQ plus representations in these
shows aren't well written and it's I I it may not well written
as but like I I find her incredibly frustrating because
she sexually assaults Hanabi trying to convince her that

(41:41):
she's lesbian or or awaken her lesbianism, however you'd want
to phrase that, and she forcefully kisses her it.
Was kind of sauce it was it. Was she literally?
But it's not. Sexual assault is like a whole
other level than like being pushy and going for it.
She forced herself. OK, fine.
Sine forced herself on Hanavi, hoping to change.

(42:06):
I don't think that's what happened.
OK, I don't know if I would frame it that way.
Yeah, she didn't like force. She just like went on top of her
while they were sleeping. And like, it's not.
I don't think it's sexual assault.
I think it's really bad to phrase it as sexual assault when
it's not. I can agree with that too.
I agree with that, but I can't fathom I like I I'm I'm confused

(42:30):
like like she is she? If like Hanabi like pushed her
away and she like kept going, that would be different.
But she like, I don't know, I thought she thought she was a
little pushy and she shot her shot and then Hanabi went for it
a little bit. Especially when Hanabi started
crying, she stopped because, OK,so this is this is my thoughts
on it, where if you want to present somebody's character

(42:52):
like this, how do you do it then?
Because I think how it's presented in the show is like
the right amount of it's too much.
Like I agree that what she did was forceful.
It put I, I think, and she's aware of Hanabi's position.
But I think if you wanted to present that in the show, I
think this was a really good andhealthy weight to present that.

(43:15):
Because sensitive subjects like this are hard.
They're hard to touch because everybody's experiences are
different and they react to it differently.
I I felt that this was tame enough to get the point across
of what they were trying to present to the characters.
And it didn't cross a line whereit's not redo of a healer.
It's not stuff like that. I think, I think it towed the

(43:35):
line really well with the boundaries it wanted to push
because it's it's tough. Pushing boundaries is tough.
Fair enough. I think.
You know, she could have asked for consent or been like, I want
to kiss you. Can I kiss you?
Like, like, can I try to do these things with you?
Like can we engage in this and then like.

(43:58):
Imperfect teenagers, sorry to talk over you, but no, you're
good. Like, I think part of the point
of that is showing that like love and sexuality and your
first time are they can be messy.
Yeah, exactly. Wide spectrum of that.
I don't necessarily like I do understand where you're coming
from, don't get me wrong, but yeah, I think I'm closer like

(44:22):
I'm in between you 2. But I would say I'm closer to
Pete where like it's not comfy at all.
But I wouldn't put it into like because anime is also not subtle
about that sort of thing when it's happening, right?
And I feel media in general, butespecially anime, like hell,
even if you look at like Mingo'sother works like Oshinoco, like

(44:43):
there's very explicit like sexual violence or theme.
Exploitation. Violence, that exploitation,
violence towards women, that sort of thing.
It's not Mingo's not a subtle artist, as we can see just by
literally everything else in this series.
So I don't think you're like wrong for feeling the way that

(45:05):
you do, Pat, But I'd learn more towards where Pete's.
Can I talk about my favorite? Character.
Yeah, Yeah. OK, sure.
So my favorite character in the entire series was Mocha.
And I, I don't know how much or how many other people like
really liked her character, but I was like fully entranced by
Mocha. I loved everything that she

(45:26):
presented. I love this idea of chasing a
Prince Charming. I love the idea of her making
bounds and making her ways to get to the thing that she wants.
And then when she actually experiences it, she realizes
that this was not what she wanted.
And I think that's like a great example of just like going
through a relationship and her relationship and some of the

(45:51):
other actually a lot of relationships remind me of like
my high school relationships where like I don't know how many
if you guys had like high schoolgirlfriends or like sweethearts
or whatever. But to get like a little
personal, like I dated my high school sweetheart for seven
years. Like I thought I was going to
marry my high school sweetheart.Like that was always in my head.
And then when it didn't happen, like you, you get a sense of

(46:14):
like your world is crumbling. But then after like a week, you
realize like, this might have been like the best thing for me.
Like I, I feel like something like opened like her mind when
she had her experience with Moogie and sort of realized that
this isn't the experience that she was looking for the whole
time and then moved on. And I love that.

(46:34):
And I I just thought her character, how she played it was
great. I love the like little squabbles
she had with Hanabi, like that was very like high school drama.
Like I like him more than you, you should break up with him
type of thing. I just thought her character was
great. Like something about her was
just like her actions to me feltthe most like well established

(46:59):
and then from point A to the conclusion was just great.
So I won't give a shout to my favorite character, Mocha.
I, I really enjoyed her Pete, though she is another example of
where I would have loved the show to be messy because Mocha
this sort of dips her toe in themessy pool.

(47:20):
And it's like this isn't the pool that I want to be in,
right? And what I I want to happen is
for Mocha to dip her toe in the messy pool and then she goes,
this isn't the pool I want to bein.
And then the pool of Messi Loctus Monster grabs her leg and
drags her down and it's like youcannot escape.
Me too. Did you know where I want her to
go? Where?

(47:40):
I want her to date Hanabi. I think Mocha and Hanabi should
have been should have dated for my Kimani.
To del Gay fans it's Sawico and that other girl from season 1
the same the same thing. I I they, they should be end
game. You're being, you're being nicer
to her than I was because like II've been messaging you that
when Hana Bee was cheating on Mugi, I wanted Mugi to find out,

(48:00):
get jealous, and then sleep withMocha to get revenge even though
he didn't really care about. Her, I don't think he cared.
Well, to make to make Hana bee jealous more so than than have
mocha like. I just don't.
Think make you an awful person? Well that that is another issue

(48:20):
with this. No one ever cared that anything
happened. But you know, they're all so
sad. But nothing matters.
I like with Mocha I I also I I do like the arc and the way that
like you said, she doesn't fullydip into it and and realizes and
learns from herself. I just wish we saw it more like
because it felt like she would have those spats with Hanabi and

(48:43):
then kept having them even aftershe had already decided that she
was good without her Prince Charming or without Boogie,
right? And then she kind of vanishes
for that middle part of the showor or middle late part of the
show and then shows back up at at the end like, oh, I am
healed. Well, not me.
That's or. She's over it.
Emphasis but but yeah, like, oh,I'm I am I have found what my my

(49:06):
goal is or what I use with my time.
Oh and I'm getting some friends.People are so blown away by me
that they want to be friends with you, blah, blah blah like
that's good. I just you know, would have
liked to have seen the progress,which I think is similar to
something to do with Senay is she's like, oh, I'm going to
give you space and then they're so they give them they give each

(49:29):
other space and then she's just gone and then she comes back at
the end and is like, I'm better there we go, you know oh, I cut
my hair I'm better, you know so I I was kind of anime.
I know, I know, but like I get like a lot of these characters
like kind of fell out of the thescope and then came back and

(49:49):
it's like, oh, they're they're good by the way, which I guess
that is very anime though. Like again, they they had done
their parts or their roles in the story, right?
So like, oh, I know you did, butlike, it's also very anime to
like fade out after you're done with your your arc.
And then in the last episode youget you get a little like cameo,

(50:11):
like, hey, I'm still alive, likelike that kind of thing.
Maybe that's not just an anime thing.
That's just like a show thing. But still, like, like, so I
wanted more seeing them actuallylearn to change or getting
better versus fading out and then coming back and being
better, which like they could have done with like Dorico, like

(50:32):
literally in the background of scenes maybe existing or, you
know, they could have showing ortalking to other people or
walking around town doing things.
Like they could have inserted itin the background, I guess, even
if they really felt they didn't have the time for it.
But that's where I was frustrated by because I did like
her character a lot. So Jay, do you have any thoughts

(50:54):
on this before I bounce off of? Pete, you might want to actually
read Scum's Wish Decor, because there's like, you get like a
decade of Mocha's life after all.
This. So I won't, I, I won't spoil for
you what her life is 'cause I think you'll actually really.
Yeah, if it's quick, I mean, yeah, I would definitely like to
just. Check.
It's pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, it's like 20

(51:15):
chapters. Or 743?
Chapters yo, what of? Of of mocha specific.
Wait, was the one piece actuallyjust scub swish, get out?
It's actually not tiled scub swish to secor it's I'll have a
Grande mocha please. Anyways Pat, I guess what I
would say is 1. I agree with you.
So I think the side characters on this, we're very concentrated

(51:38):
in the beginning and then they all fall off sort of at the same
time. And then we get like a very
large amount of focus on Moogie and Ikane, which I did enjoy,
but like solely then for like two or three episodes and it is
sort of felt like a lot. What I'll say is someone like
Mocha showing up at the end while our characters busy sort

(51:59):
of moping around and demonstrating that you actually
can get over it. And she's like, look, I'm I'm
doing good now. I'm looking, you know, I got rid
of my pigtails and all that. I think that has value.
The issue is that every side character went away the same
time, you know what I mean? So like just doing that with
like one of them, I think could be a narratively good decision.

(52:19):
They fall off screen, they come back and they've changed.
And that's like surprising, right?
It's like, oh, I didn't expect this, but like when you have
everyone, you know you so you had like that.
Remember that guy? There was just that guy that
Hanabi was dating, that Akane also dated.
He just went away. A lot of people just go away.

(52:41):
And I guess like when everyone does that, it becomes a little
bit of an issue. Those girls?
Hanabi asked for advice. Don't go away.
They're in scums Wish decor. One of them is asexual.
One of them is what? Asexual.
Hard world to be asexual in the world of Scum's wish.
She's avoiding a lot of bullshitby doing that.
Though it's so true, maybe it's actually a very Maybe it's an

(53:02):
easier world. To be there was actually a great
scene with those girls in Hanabiafter the fact where they were
how they view relationships. I thought was really interesting
because like the girl had the she essentially had two choices
of a boyfriend and they were having that conversation of like
who she should choose. And Hanabi was so perplexed that

(53:22):
like, why would you want to datetwo people?
Don't you have a true love? And I just love that like
adolescent side of Hanabi. It's like how like you have no
experience. Do you like you do not know how
any of this? I thought that was just like a
great little nod, a nice little tip of the cap to like high
school relationships because there are 100% people that are

(53:44):
like, that's my boyfriend. That's going to be my husband
when I grow up, blah, blah, blah.
And then anime this one, just like, yo, do I want to date the
the football player or do I wantto date the hockey player type
of thing. So I really like that scene.
You want the hockey player, by the way.
They stinky. As a football player, we were
also stinky and I agree. Yeah, dated tennis player.

(54:06):
I don't do that. Oh come on yo, I need all the
help I can get. Specifically don't date tennis
players. That's my.
Only don't date Pete. That was so mean.

(54:30):
Miles, you're no longer my friend.
Oh, sorry much I apologize this.Is scubs.
This is scubs. I'm out.
I'm out. Wow, you'll never see me get him
out. If if he's out like like one of
eight characters. One of the characters I'm gonna
do, I'm gonna spin the wheel. Oh, no, I already spun the
wheel. Viraco's running the podcast
now. OK, you'll show up and your and

(54:52):
your wedding tux at the finale of the what do you say anime?
And then you'll just be like mean mugging me.
You'll be all chiseled and shit and I'll just be like, oh, I'm
still miserable. Miles is just like, he's like
Boogie. He's couch hopping.
Yeah, God, my wife's going to take a turn.
What happened bro? Oh God, should we talk?

(55:14):
About Hanabi and can I like the OR Hanabi's, I guess, like
conflict or her scummy wish, as they might say, you know, like
the the focal point of the show,of the plot maybe.
I know we're running on time pretty late, but we we've had a
good discussion so far so I think we're good.

(55:37):
I thought OK, I know we talked about this a little bit.
For me, my frustration was the fact that I guess I wanted it to
be more domestic girlfriendy, like what we were talking about
earlier, where it didn't feel like to me they needed to have
that intimate of a relationship or, or personal of a
relationship in the 1st place for this story to still be told

(55:59):
between the two of them. In the same way that like Moogie
and Akane, I mean, the way they met, I guess they met
technically before they go to the same or they're at the same
high school, but it's, it's clear that there's like no
familial or super connected level there versus with Hanabi

(56:23):
and Kanai. I mean, I, I guess the the
little brother, Big Brother or little sister thing, like I
understand that Kanai sees it correctly and never even thinks
about it. And it's we're seeing it from
the perspective Hanabi who callshim Big Brother.
But technically it's not becauseJapanese is weird sometimes or
or or whatever. It's.
Like if I say what's up brother,it's that.

(56:47):
I, I guess I don't think it's that at all.
I don't think either. I think it's more like hello
senior or hello. The host senior.
Older like male figure. Older senior that like that
yeah, like older male figure. I get that.
But like the the way that the show described them to me, it
screamed that he was they were felt like brothers or siblings.

(57:10):
And that's where I was like, I don't need that.
I want something more like domestic girlfriend because it's
already so their their relationship would already be
morally reprehensible with and or immoral maybe is a better way
to put it where I don't think there's that massive age gap.
The massive age gap. Well, right now would be right
now would be 100%. Massive age gap in general and

(57:32):
it's like 5 years. He's he's 23 and she's 17 in the
show, so six years. OK, I don't love that It would
still be a bad 10 years from nowwhen she's 27 and he's 33
because there would be the the grooming aspect of.
It divided that they had known each other for.
Divided that they had known eachother right or or had been

(57:53):
around each other in any capacity.
I would I would argue and. Like say he was your military
superior. You mother, well played.
It's good. So I, I and and like, I just, I
felt like it didn't need that. It didn't need that.
It could have just been and Akane and Mugi situation where

(58:15):
maybe they had a little where they got to the school.
That's where the crush started something.
And it still would have been that conflict of I want.
I love someone that can never show me love back without having
the weird family stuff or the weird like that.
And that bothered me so much because like that makes it, if

(58:35):
anything, maybe telling on myself here.
I see can see Hanabi's perspective if she wasn't
calling him big bro like I can see Hanabi's perspective if he's
just someone that feels unreachable or unattainable by
the nature of their relationship.

(58:58):
I don't see it from the perspective of what actually
happens in the show at all. And I crush, but it's a crush
that drags on for 12 episodes and it's like the Seminole point
of the show and, and the, and the relationship.
And I do not see how it could. I'm glad she gets over it.
I'm glad she learns by the end. But it, it was very, very

(59:19):
frustrating in the moment for me'cause I was just like, there's.
So there's a totally different way that it could be done.
OK, so normally when we have like these, we I like we can see
like perspectives and stuff likethis.
And this was something that whenyou brought it up, like I was
like, IA 100% disagree with. And it's, it's for the fact that
we have context to Hanabi's pastor back story along with

(59:41):
Kanai. And the reason why Hanabi is so
fond of the teacher is 'cause she grew up with no father
figure, no male influence in herlife.
She is surrounded by negativity.Like she's called like a mistake
by her relatives. And then you have somebody like
Kanai who is a guiding light in her life.

(01:00:03):
They're an older figure and it just happens to be of the
opposite sex. So having the relationship
feelings for somebody who does that in your life, especially at
that age, I think it's completely normal.
And it makes sense that she grewout of like, I, I think it's a
we instead of the fact that likeshe had a crush on him, it's
more of the reason of why she did.

(01:00:25):
And we, I feel like the focus needs to be on that.
It's Hanabi. Missing this figure in her life
is the reason the show showcasesit.
This is one of the biggest reasons why she is the person
who she is. Like if she didn't have Kanai in
her life she would be like a mess I feel like.
And then Kanai is the same way. He's actively searching for a

(01:00:45):
mother figure in his life because he only has his dad.
Like we have references to wherehe can't eat dinner because he
doesn't know how to cook and hisdad doesn't know how to cook.
So he goes over to their house and they share a meal together
and it's something that he is searching for.
He's not searching for a little sister.
He was searching for a mom. And so like his perspective of

(01:01:06):
this whole situation is completely different to Hanabi's
because his intentions were was to never to be a Big Brother.
It was to find a mom. And that's what he is actively
searching for in the younger year.
So when you when it's played outwhere the teacher Kanai has zero
feelings towards Hanabi in any sexual manner, makes perfect

(01:01:28):
sense in the story. It is laid out and fleshed out
perfectly. And Hanabi having the feelings
that she has with the context ofthe show, I think is perfect.
Like it makes perfect sense why somebody would do the action she
did on the context that's given to us, Miles.
I have AI guess like a a different view is I'm more adult

(01:01:50):
Doilian, I guess then what Pete just did, where I think that it
provides a good foil to Akane. Can I does where 1.
You know, it would make so Hanabi was it was harder for her

(01:02:13):
to get over the crush like one might normally, because he ends
up being a teacher in her school.
And I think that's sort of important for why they had prior
relationships because if, you know, she had a crush on the
older boy in the neighborhood and the older boy went to
college and then she never saw him again, it would presumably
be easier to do. And then you have him acting as

(01:02:34):
like a foil to a con a where she's just like, yeah, I'll bang
that teenager. He's like, I'll do it because it
will hurt multiple people. That's very funny.
I think this is funny. You know where?
Where is he? He is like God.
Forbid a girl have fun. Yeah, you know what?

(01:02:56):
You know, where can I has has the right view of it.
You know, he knows he's too old.He knows that the relationship
doesn't really permit that. But he also offer offers like
empathy and understanding of whyshe might feel like that based
on how it happened. You know, so at some point I I

(01:03:17):
can generally see where you're like, oh, that this like went on
too long. But this concept going on is
sort of the plot of the show. It's about like unrequited love
festering and going forward likeat the longer it goes.
And so it can't be something so immediate because otherwise you
have a different show, you know,so.

(01:03:40):
Yeah, I guess so. I I just really hung up on that.
Like the familial thing, like what I think makes it like so
clear what the answer is versus.They just, I mean, I don't know,
they didn't live together, right?
If they were the same age it would be fine.
No, but like like blood is thicker.
Declare from Degrassi all over. Again, like like blood of the
covenant thicker the water of the womb like that kind of thing

(01:04:01):
like that's the way I looked at it was found family in a way.
So it's like you, you, you know,like that, that that's where
I'm. Family.
I found her and then we got married and now we're family.
You got me. You got me.
Like I OK, well, I found, right?Yeah, no, but I guess that was
just my point was that it's likeI I felt like a it just felt

(01:04:22):
like, oh, well, I didn't mean it.
It would have still been a questionable decision or a
tangible understanding why she still had that crush for me and
and versus. I just can't get why she would
in this scenario. But again, I guess that's why
I'm not. I I guess I agree, I think you
just sort of accept that she does because it's the premise.

(01:04:45):
Right, no, of course, and that'swhy I complain about it to you
guys because I mean like that aspect of it.
So there we go. That's that we got there.
We got there right again, I overtext.
Maybe we weren't communicating clearly either.
But yeah, I guess that wait, didJay don't for a while?
No, I was enjoying the popcorn. No.
Fair enough. All right.

(01:05:05):
Yeah, I think we do need to moveon to closing thoughts that
we're running a bit long here. Sorry folks.
But yeah, Miles, why don't you give us give us your final
thoughts and your final score sothat we can find where we put
the show. In our list of watching.
Shows. The show, you know, is, is one
thing I will say that the show is it's, it's watchable.

(01:05:27):
There was another show that I described as such recently.
I, I can't remember what it was.I didn't Oh, it was high school
the dead where it was a watchable show.
Like I wanted to watch more, forbetter or worse.
This is this is something that Ifeel less extreme about, but
nonetheless a show that the the best thing I would say about it

(01:05:48):
is probably that it is watchable.
I think that the characters are good and interesting.
I know that that's what Pete is probably going to praise the
most. I think that where it fell short
for me was the way that the characters bounced off each
other just wasn't always satisfying, except for in a few

(01:06:11):
cases, or it was always satisfying, but then things
would bounce off and just never show.
But I don't, I don't, I'm not quite, it's a complicated show.
I don't know exactly, even afterdiscussing it for, you know, an
hour or whatever, how to put my words in there.
I wish it was messier. I wish that Kanae had either
face some sort of consequences or drug everyone down with her

(01:06:33):
as opposed to her being uplifted, which probably says
something about me as a person, but you know, that's not here or
there. Nothing we didn't know already.
Fair enough. As me explaining why episode 9
of Devil Man is my favorite episode of anime, you know.

(01:06:54):
And so I think I would just sortof like looking looking for
that. I think it it tried to be messy
and then went for a relatively cookie cutter ending with like
the only wrinkle being that Hanabi and Mookie didn't end up
together. But like, oh God, that would
have been beyond the pale. Like it would have been too far.
It would have been so unbelievable if they had ended

(01:07:15):
up together. So I I still view this as sort
of the standard stock ending forthis show, though I could
understand if someone didn't because the main couple didn't
end up together and that's not always common.
Anyways, I'm going to give this A7.
I had fun, I liked the characters, I I think it just is
sort of narratively flawed in a few places that that end up

(01:07:36):
hurting it for me as it got towards its conclusion.
All righty, Jay, what about you?OK, so I think that this show
was like pretty fun in a way, just because like I think
watching this with a group of people, like even the way that
we did, or just even watching itwith like your partner or

(01:07:58):
something is really fun because you can see like people's
reactions to just the like scummery that goes on in this.
You know what I mean? Like you can tell a lot.
I think that you could use this as a litmus test for new weebs
that you meet where you talk to them about like, so how do you
feel about Scum's Wish? Like what characters were you

(01:08:18):
vibing with? I think you can really learn a
lot about somebody. I think that the show, for me,
the highlights of it were, like I said before, the
characterization was immensely well done, sometimes to like the
detriment of the plot, where youcan really feel that they were
in their bag so much Thinking about like how these characters

(01:08:40):
think and feel and interact witheach other that like Miles said,
certain aspects of the plot justkind of show up and then leave.
I'm not sure if it's a adaptation thing or if that's
how it is in the manga as well, but alas, here we are.
I think that the music of the show was pretty underrated, as
well as like the voice acting, especially the the dub.
Like they really did a good job with the dub and maybe we sound

(01:09:05):
like a broken record 'cause I feel like we've been doing a lot
of pretty solid dubs recently. But I think that this is 1 where
if you're willing to like go pirate it because that's the
only way you can find the dub nowadays, Go go ahead and just
go sail the seas for it. It's solid.
But yeah, this show, if you're somebody who enjoys melodrama
like Degrassi, but you want it turned up to like 11, then I

(01:09:27):
think that you should definitelycheck it out.
For me, yeah, this is like A7. 7Alrighty Pete, what about you
all? Right.
I've been waiting for this. So I was thinking about like
running something down, but I decided that I just wanted just
just spitball. I mentioned it earlier that when
we have shows like domestic girlfriend or White Album or
something in that same sphere, sometimes the characters to me

(01:09:50):
seem fake, like they I know it'sa animated show, but like,
hopefully, you know what I'm saying is like they feel like
they feel like actors, like theydon't feel like they're like
actually in the story. They're playing a role or
they're playing a trope. And then sometimes with those
messier shows do is that they are in like AI don't know a ball

(01:10:12):
of scum or something. And then all of a sudden they'll
try to like pull it back and be real.
And to me that like pulls me away from shows like that.
What I think what Scums Wish didbetter than those shows and
other ones is it presented itself as messy but real the
entire time. Like I never felt like it.
The situations that they were in, while they were outlandish

(01:10:34):
and exaggerated, I've maybe evenpersonally have been a part of
something that's happened in thestory where I felt like it
wasn't that exaggerated, like itis realistic.
And I never felt like what they were presenting to me was so far
fetched that I couldn't like believe that it could happen to
me or somebody else. I just like it was captivating.

(01:10:58):
I thought the characters were incredible.
My biggest issues was was the ending.
I did not like the ending. And normally I say like if the
ending is bad, it can kind of like knock a point or two, but I
just thought like the first like10 1/2 episodes were just so
solid. Where I watch so much anime,
it's so hard for me to binge shows.

(01:11:19):
This was a breeze. Like I there a lot of times I'll
watch like, you know, I'll watcha seasonal and then go to bed or
something like that. This was like I was up till 2
watching the show. I'm like, I got working six
hours like that rarely happens to me anymore, especially in in
binging shows. There's seasonal shows where
like I'll go on my way to watch,which is kind of like the same

(01:11:40):
thing with this. It was just like I didn't want
to stop watching it. Like I know yesterday like I had
to go to my mom's and I was pissed because I wanted to
finish the show. Like that's how much I was
invested in it. It just did something to me that
like other shows like this have not done, especially with like
romance and drama. I think a lot of times it's
butterflies and sparkles and this was pure and raw and I I

(01:12:01):
loved it. The Yeah, man, love the cast,
love the character design. Like that just makes me kind of
feel like, I feel like Oshi Okoka tried like a little bit
harder because this is just like.
You know, sure, let me, let me go, right?
Yeah, I was like, you know, you know, Aqua does look exactly
like Moogie. Like, I don't know that that's

(01:12:23):
not like a detriment to like, I guess it technically is, but
like it just makes me like like like scums the wish so much.
Like I think like the character designs were just awesome fully
and grasped in the story. The drama was the right amount
of slop and messy that I wanted in this type of show and just
great man. And like I was so excited to
talk to you guys about it. Like that's another thing this

(01:12:44):
show was so much fun to talk about.
Like that's such another level for it's like apocalypse hotel
on Tuesdays. I can't wait for Tuesdays to
talk about Apocalypse hotel. It raises my score because I get
to talk to so many people about a show I love.
This is it too. I'd be giving this A10.
It made my top 50 all time. I think the show is incredible.
I I think it's honestly, it is just like if I watched this

(01:13:06):
before Tora Dora, I think this might have been like my favorite
romance ever. I just, I just think what they
did on almost every level was sofar above beyond what's in the
sphere now that I just fell in love with it.
Yeah, I think this is a tent. This was it was never not going
to be a tent like I I love this.Sorry, 11th hour discussion

(01:13:30):
topic is scum Swisher romance. Yes, it's 100% of romance.
Yeah. OK.
I mean, not all romance is like I said, not all romance is
butterflies and sparkle. Sometimes it's whatever scum
swishes and. Fair enough, Just.
It's the bad thing. Just just like White Album 2
where it's not all butterflies and romance.

(01:13:51):
I mean, I literally just said that I feel like the characters
are actors. So yeah, I fucking.
I fucking hate White Album too and I love scum Swish so 10 out
of 10 it's. It's kind of fun.
Yeah, OK, OK. That what do we got?
Yeah, I was going to say my turnbecause I was going to just like
specifically cite where the where Pete was mentioning how we
preferred these characters. And they're like what?

(01:14:12):
What failed for me was scum swish, I think is the fact that
these characters were so fleshedout.
And I think Miles kind of touched on this too.
They get into these messy situations and then it kind of
all just solves itself or they kind of just get out of it
versus the way I what I really liked about White Album 2A
domestic girlfriend is these characters are bad people.

(01:14:33):
They make poor decisions and then they pay the price for it
or someone else pays the price for it and things go wrong.
And that that made it feel real to me, like that seeing the
cheating or like seeing a repercussion to the cheating
actually mattering. Versus in this show we don't
even see anyone react to the cheating other than our cuck

(01:14:56):
chair guy. Can I, you know, like I want it.
I want to see that stuff. And that's probably why I liked
White Album 2 more and why I liked Domestic girlfriends much
more than the show. I think a lot of the other
talking points in terms of it's like that, the positives are
there, like character design. I agree about the music.
The music was great. It was, it was notable,

(01:15:17):
noticeable in a good way in the background.
All that stuff was great, But I,I really was frustrated.
I, I will say it was easy to watch, very easy to binge.
Like Pete was saying too. I, I binged the hell out of this
and it was not hard. I, I didn't want, I had a golf
tee time and I wanted to finish the show before I went golfing.
I didn't do that, but I wanted to.

(01:15:38):
So yeah, I am going to give thisA5 I think because I think it's
perfectly fine. I also, I was kind of somewhere
between A5 and A6, but I don't know, I think the ending is very
frustrating to me. I was very, very frustrated with
it and and that was kind of where I was already in the five
to six range. And then I think that that's
solidified it to me where I was just not satisfied at all by the

(01:16:02):
way the resolutions came to be. So with the four of us totaled
together, we end up with a 7.25 rating, which is about .15
higher than the the average of seven point O 9 on Mal.
So yeah, good on us. We were pretty, pretty similar,
I'd say about as close as you can get with four people to the

(01:16:24):
to seven point O 9. So very similar feel from us as
the community and Miles. You have what we're watching for
our Pride Month episode. I sure.
Do we will be reading Scum Switch?
Yes, let's go. One thing I want to point really

(01:16:47):
quickly about our score is the range we had of five to 10 is
indicative of what I have seen in the community where people
like Jay and I who are like, I like the show.
I had some issues as 7 out of 10are actually kind of rare.
But I've seen more of the sort of extremes of like this is a 10
or you're a sociopath for thinking this is a 10, this is

(01:17:10):
like a 5 or lower. And so I like that we did that.
I think that is fun. OK, They're.
The best episodes. In 3rd In 3rd place we had I Am
in Love with the Villains earning its second legacy point.
In 2nd place we had Wandering Sun Damn so close and in first

(01:17:31):
place we have given. Oh wow.
Given one, let's go. By a landslide.
Crushed. Fuck yeah I love Given.
So, yeah, yeah. We'll be watching.
Given as pro phobic. Is.
Yeah. To be fair, that is.

(01:17:51):
Sort of the IT has flipped from all of our previous Pride Month
episodes. I think every other one has been
a Yuri, so it's good to get somediversity in there.
We go sweet. All right, yeah.
So we're watching given not the movie, right?
The show came first, I think, right?
Yeah. OK, show.

(01:18:12):
We're watching that show for June 30th, I guess.
I guess it is going to come out not during pride month anymore,
but hey, we sometimes forget dates.
And we're terrible at how. How time, how, how time works
exactly. But now we're going back to
normal nominations. So, yeah, only four of us today.
So we got in theory a 25% chanceto win on these nominations.

(01:18:34):
That's not true for us. That's that's not, that's not
how it works for me at least I Ithink I'm more like 4%.
But we're good. Miles, what have you got?
Yeah. So Pete at the beginning of this
episode had kindly sent me a a list of the shows that were on
our our fan bracket. You can join the discord in the
link down below if you would like to participate in that.

(01:18:55):
But I didn't see it. And I was at the end I was like,
God damn it Pete, you, you didn't do that.
How am I supposed to? But then I saw that you did.
So I just picked something that I knew want to be on there.
It is a three episode OVA from 2004 is called The Portrait of
Petit Cosette. It is a a horror, psychological

(01:19:16):
sort of avant-garde thing. And it's sort of been on my to
watch list. But I also think it's something
that would be fun to talk about because I kind of think I think
it would be fun to talk about anyways that that's the that's
the first nom there. Alrighty Jay, what about you?

(01:19:39):
I'm gonna nominate Grand Blue dreaming.
Just got announced Another season of it, right?
That's just Grand Blue. Oh, is it different?
Grand Blue Dreaming is. Is that the mobile game?
Nope, Nope, it's. Oh, the manga's called Grand
Blue Dreaming. The anime is just called Grand
Blue. Right, the anime is also called

(01:19:59):
Grand Blue Dreaming them lookingat it right now.
Yes, it is. It's us.
Yeah, Grand blue. Grand blue.
Dreaming. OK, great.
OK, we got there because of because of that error, Pete
doesn't get a nomination. No, there's like a what's the
kid? No, I'm kidding.
You're thinking of Grand Blue like the fighting game.
Yeah, yeah, there's like there'ssome, there's some like
crossover where it's just like it's like 1's a normal show.
The other one's like the girls are ships or some shit like

(01:20:21):
that. That's Azure.
Laser lame. That's Azure lame, baby.
Oh man. Not that I did I ever put a ton
of hours into that or anything of.
Course not, I've done research on it because it was cool.
Like, oh, they're named after, like all the US warships.
And they all have like similar stories and everything.
It's pretty neat. Yeah.
All right, Pete, what have what have you got?
I'm gonna nominate one of the most controversial shows of

(01:20:44):
2019, and it's for a reason thatyou probably don't think it is.
I'm going to be nominating the tennis anime Stars Align.
I've never heard of. This.
Never heard of it either so I'm excited.
I like tennis Tennis. Is why was it controversial?
People, I'll give you a hint, it's the same team that did
Wonder Egg priority. Does it make that's the scums

(01:21:06):
wish ending with like the Breaking Bad ending does that?
I'm excited. I'm excited.
Take with that with what you will.
Alrighty and I. Also has.
Sorry, it's not the same team. It's like fucking same shit,
whatever. Same studio.
It's not the same studio. It's a lot of people work.

(01:21:28):
There's correlation. Sorry.
OK. Great, you'll love to see it.
We should expect the ending to solve nothing of that's tennis
anime. There we go.
How do you not finish a tennis anime anyway?
Three wins or loses? Oh, they're they're like that
Wimbledon set that just keeps going on and on.
They keep trading, yeah. Just say the end of the middle

(01:21:48):
of a set. Yeah.
All right. And yeah, I'm going to nominate
a show that I pulled. I'm allowed to nominate week
this week, so or two weeks ago, whatever.
I'm nominating Lazarus. I know some of us are still
behind on that show and by the time we would be watching, we
will be able to talk about it. So I'm super excited about it.

(01:22:11):
I will watch it eventually on myown, but I would really love to
talk about it because if someonedropped it and then picked it
back up and then had to listen to me talk about how great it
is. Man, I got some bad news for.
You, yeah, no one else could be shit.
It would be fun. Discord has dropped it.
Yeah, no, no, that's usually a good sign.

(01:22:32):
But, but wouldn't it be fun? OK, let's do the the whole bit
of like why we nominate citrus. Wouldn't it be fun to watch
something that we don't like? You know, let's do that.
There we go. Let's do Lazarus.
Well, only you don't like citrus.
Everybody else likes citrus. I think I.
Actually think well, I think youwould love citrus.

(01:22:53):
We will, honestly, eventually. Find out.
Yes, we will. It is.
Yeah, all right. But yeah, there's my nomination.
Vote for it, please, or vote forany of the other shows.
I think that we put 4 strong candidates up, including mine.
Totally. Yeah, happy pride.
And that wraps up Watch Club. Yeah, I got you.

(01:23:16):
If you have made the fart and you want to support us, the best
way to do so like, comment, subscribe, leave a review on
whatever platform you are watching or listening to us on.
Next week, we are already looking towards summer, so I'm
going to be talking about some new seasonals.
Next season's stacked. We got a lot of sequels, got a
lot of new properties coming up.Actually, after this episode
airs, I will be doing a live stream of going over the new PVS

(01:23:38):
for next season. So if you want to check out a
replay or a VOD of that, go to our YouTube channel.
Check it out while you're there to subscribe.
Otherwise, if you're here for a watch club in two weeks, we will
see you forgiven. Thanks and we will see you next
time, Miles. Bye, bye, there we go, Bye bye,
bye, bye, bye, bye. Bye.

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