What if Your Job Isn’t Done Until the Customer’s Job Is Done? An Interview With Sunbelt's Ron Gaines
September 25, 2024 • 20 mins
| In this episode, Ron Gaines, senior manager of marketing technology and analytics at Sunbelt Rentals, joins the show to discuss the evolving landscape of equipment rentals and the critical role digital transformation plays in it. Ron shares insights into how Sunbelt Rentals is adapting to meet changing customer expectations, the importance of value communication, and the challenges of integrating digital tools with traditional sales tactics. He also offers valuable advice on staying connected with customers and ensuring that the job is truly done from start to finish.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ron Gaines (00:05):
We need to streamline the tools and devices
that they are actuallycapturing customer information
and needs and that is beingactivated across our business in
near real time as much as realtime as possible, so that we can
then stop issues between salesinformation and data and the
data that we're using and thatwe're banking on in digital
practices and functions in thebusiness.
Jim Hertzfeld (00:27):
Welcome to what If so what, the podcast where we
explore what's possible withdigital and discover how to make
it real in your business.
I'm your host, Jim Hertzfeld,and we get s--- done by asking
digital leaders the rightquestions what, if so what and,
most importantly now, what?
Hey, I'm really excited to havethe next guest, Ron Gaines.
He's the Senior Manager ofMarketing, Technology and
(00:49):
Analytics for Sunbelt Rentals.
Ron, thanks for joining.
Great to see you today.
Ron Gaines (00:53):
It is a pleasure, Jim.
Jim Hertzfeld (00:55):
I'm super excited to be on today, chat with you a
little bit.
Because we've done a lot ofwork with you, so I know what
you're going through, I knowwhat you've been through, I know
what you're dealing with but alot of people don't maybe not
be familiar with with Sunbelt,maybe a little bit of background
about Sunbelt and kind of thelike, " What makes you guys a
little special.
Ron Gaines (01:13):
Yeah, we are a global company, a global
enterprise that specializes inspecialty equipment and
equipment rentals.
We have over 550,000 pieces offleet in the continental US with
over 1,400 plus locations inthe US to provide that value to
our customers.
So you will know us by thegreen equipment on construction
(01:36):
sites.
You will usually see them.
Once you see them, you can'tstop seeing them, right and all
the time.
And you know what man.
Now, for me it brings a lot ofpride when I see that equipment
on construction sites because itshows that you know we have a
presence and that we providereal value to customers doing
hard work.
Jim Hertzfeld (01:55):
Right, right, it is hard work.
Yeah, I know right where mylocal Sunbelt is, by the way,
it's just maybe a couple ofmiles.
Ron Gaines (02:01):
Yes, that is what we are planning, and have
everybody know where their localSunbelt is.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:07):
That's great.
It's great.
Yes, sir, and I'm a DIYer, sousually I got to rent equipment,
so uh, listen, man, that's apersona.
Ron Gaines (02:14):
We focus on you too.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:16):
The pro home guy.
Yeah, yeah, that's what we callthem.
I can know enough to bedangerous and that's what we
like.
Ron Gaines (02:23):
That's what we like.
You're the perfect person forus.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:26):
Awesome.
I have no shortage of ideas andprojects I want to accomplish,
so talk to your wife.
You know what this is?
Just like I would.
Sometimes I will look at apiece of equipment I didn't know
existed and I'll say, whoa, Ididn't know you could do that.
That could make my life easier.
That might actually prompt aproject idea.
So I need to get in and startbrowsing.
Ron Gaines (02:46):
And I think that's a really interesting thing that
for consumers like yourself tounderstand that we have so many
types of equipment.
Let's say you're doing thispodcast and you want to do a
movie or a documentary.
We have film and TV rentalequipment.
Really, see film productionfrom Sunbelt Rentals.
Yes, maybe you want to throw aconcert?
We can supply everything youneed to put that concert on.
(03:09):
It can be from a power tool todoing a movie.
We have the equipment for you.
Jim Hertzfeld (03:14):
All right, see, now I'm going to make a movie.
I didn't even know I had to.
Yes, sir, all right, that'sawesome inspiration, Ron.
So you know you guys are,you're on a mission, I think
traditional.
Like you mentioned construction.
You know that's gone on for along time.
It's one of those industrieswhere the construction manager,
the construction crew, he wins abid, they got a crew together,
(03:37):
they got to show up on site andit doesn't change a lot.
But what from your perspective?
I mean, they didn't always havea senior manager of marketing,
technology and analytics.
So, what sort of changed in theworld?
When you look at this space ofequipment, what have you seen
that has driven the business?
Good question.
Ron Gaines (03:56):
So, while I like to say we support an industry
that's as old as the advent ofthe wheel, right I -
infrastructure and constructionand building but our customers'
expectations and modernizationand digitalization has changed,
right?
We were talking prior to thisthat, you know, once COVID hit,
it accelerated and matureddigital light years, right?
(04:18):
And now that became mainstaytable stakes and a part of
consumers' evolving expectationsgoing forward.
They expect to get value from abrand not only through analog
in our legacy brick and mortarstores, like we do have, but
they want to be able to shoponline.
They want to see what other andadditional value that they can
(04:40):
get from our brand throughdigital mediums.
Jim Hertzfeld (04:42):
Yeah, and they want it kind of on their terms,
right?
So you guys have to and I kindof see this a lot too, right?
One of the things that we hearfrom a lot of customers is
what's our customer thinking?
What's on their mind?
How do I get to know them?
Like you said, they wantinstant access, they want to be
informed.
They certainly haveexpectations, and you guys are
(05:03):
doing a lot to make that happen,right?
You have a website.
You put your catalog, you putthe availability up there.
But the way they think and shopchanges all the time.
So how do you guys keep up withthat?
Ron Gaines (05:15):
Staying connected, insisting on a relationship.
You mentioned a couple of keythings to me.
The customers and our endusers' expectations are
constantly evolving.
We talked about that.
Digital has become a mainstay,but with that, understanding the
customer needs is the holygrail of a brand providing real
value.
And digital has some challengeswith that because to understand
(05:37):
true intent it's not an easything.
But if you insist on getting toknow your customer, it's like
if we had a brick and mortarthat came in and they you know,
I don't care what I was selling,I got to know that person.
I got to know their family,their kids and I got to know who
they are.
I start to understand and learnmore about them and I learned
how to provide better value tothem based on what I do know.
(06:00):
So to me it's really getting toknow your customer.
It is giving them theopportunity to show you what
they need from the brand andthen the brand responding in
kind.
Right?
Because without that valueexchange there isn't any
business and there isn't anyconsumer.
Jim Hertzfeld (06:18):
So what are some of the ways you do that, Ron,
like, do you go out to the store, do you go out to the job site?
What are some of the ways thatyou guys try and keep your
finger on the pulse?
Ron Gaines (06:28):
Yeah, we do have our legacy sales force.
We have people on the groundwho are creating real
relationships and lastingrelationships with customers,
and that doesn't change.
But with that we need to alsomake sure that the customer and
the brand could understand thecompany, they can understand the
customer, and they can have asingular view of that customer
(06:50):
internally to know this is theirpreference.
They prefer to shop at thisparticular location versus that
location.
Split the difference, it couldbe almost seven, eight miles in
either direction, but theyprefer that one, or hey, I
actually prefer to talk to mysalesperson or I want to just
shop online and check out.
So, to answer your questionspecifically, I think it's
(07:12):
really getting in tune with thedata.
We are doing a lot tounderstand our customer and our
customer needs by theinformation that they're giving
us and making sure that thereare opportunities for them to
give us that information and usto make something out of that
information, really providevalue from it.
Jim Hertzfeld (07:29):
So you've got these relationship builders
right, these sales team andthese guys.
I'm just drawing like a, I'mpainting a picture of these guys
.
They know, they understand thejob site.
They know where these guys are.
They've been to the shops.
Maybe they play golf.
They've probably been to abarbecue or two with these guys.
And there's a lot of justinherent information.
(07:50):
It's pretty valuable, butyou're also looking at the other
end of the spectrum.
You're collecting the databecause they're doing more
online, because they're movingmore digitally, you have more
data to look at.
I'm guessing that's where theanalytics part of your title
comes in.
Is that?
Ron Gaines (08:04):
Yes, that's the whole second day job.
Yeah, the night job.
Jim Hertzfeld (08:10):
What happens when you know sort of the field
sales team and the data start toclash?
Have you had that experienceyet?
Ron Gaines (08:16):
Yeah, I mean it happens right, and good input is
good output.
We're only as good as the datathat we collect.
Right, and that is also anenablement piece of it.
We can never split the factthat marketing, while its true
purpose is to communicate thevalue proposition to the
customer, for internally it'salso sales enablement, service
(08:37):
enablement function, as well.
Right, so that means okay, whatmethods are our field sales
team collecting this information?
Is it a method that ourmethodology leaves little error
or has a lot of error in thisprocess?
Initial expression, for instance, right, like a lot of us know
about that and our sales teamsusing a variety of tools to
capture information, but we needto make it easy to use.
(09:00):
Maybe we need to streamline thetools and devices that they are
actually capturing customerinformation and needs and that
is being activated across ourbusiness in near real time, as
much as real time as possible,so that we can then stop issues
between sales information anddata and the data that we're
using and that we're banking onin digital practices and
(09:21):
functions in the business.
Jim Hertzfeld (09:23):
I remember years ago I was working on a sales
forecasting project and thisthing was super sophisticated
for its time - millions ofdollars.
College professors, you know,were consulted on this thing I
mean, it was very sophisticatedat the time went through all
these data integration, wentthrough all these complex
computational cycles and thenthe one requirement that the
(09:45):
sales team absolutely had tohave was the ability to override
the sales forecast that wespent all these millions of
dollars on with their own number, which happened like 100% of
the time.
Like yeah, I don't think I'mgoing to make that number, I'm
going to downgrade it.
So, it's just funny to me how,again, data and reality have to
meet.
Are there areas where you thinkyou know you've really gotten
(10:07):
that right?
And I guess I'll ask it thisway, Did you ever give a sales
team an insight and they saidyou know what?
I didn't know that was coming?
I didn't see it that way, kindof putting you on the spot here,
but can you think of an areawhere the sales organization
really, really yeah, I think oneof the areas that again, back
(10:29):
to that enablement functionbecause we got to understand
their role and our role.
Ron Gaines (10:33):
I think one area that I've seen, even in my many
lives as a professional, iscontent.
Content is important.
It's one of their primary toolsto do their job of making good
on the value proposition thatmarketing has already put out to
market.
Right?
Now it's the sales team and thecontent to continue to bring
them along and mature thatconversation to their customer
(10:55):
who's ready to do business withthis brand?
So we've seen where salespeoplecreate their own content and
sales enable their content,right.
And then it's like, well, we'renot saying the same things
across all content and channels.
That may be confusing ourcustomer.
In the end, what is the realinformation to stand up?
This is the thing that I reallyinsist on around marketing and
(11:18):
sales organizations.
It's the expectation that we'regiving the customer.
Are we being consistent acrossthe customer lifecycle and the
journey?
Right?
If sales are not making good onwhat marketing says, that's an
issue.
If we're communicating multiplethings that conflict a little
bit.
Maybe this was our SLA for this, you know, maybe for our
delivery time, but we've changedprocesses and they have
(11:40):
outdated content - happens allthe time.
Or maybe it's the channel thatthe end user is coming in on and
we have a certain way that wewant to nurture them based on
the channel that they come in on.
Maybe sales has a different waythat they want to communicate
to this customer and maybe we'rethinking, hey, we've given them
this kind of expectation acrossthese channels.
Maybe you continue with thispart of the conversation before
(12:03):
you go into this information,right?
That is areas that I've seenspecifically where data and
marketing was able to enhancehow a salesperson communicated
to the end user to make surethat the experience was
consistent from interest toclose.
Jim Hertzfeld (12:19):
Well, and this is the content I mean you kind of
bring up like a really basicpoint.
You know, I was thinking not somuch insights, but if we're
creating all this velocity,right.
Ron Gaines (12:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Jim Hertzfeld (12:29):
Right, because they've got self-service access
to the content.
But what if it's in conflict,if it's wrong?
And I'm thinking about boy,what happens when there's a
safety issue?
Right Now, we're getting diceyright.
Well, we have a recall or analert, or a safety bulletin,
right?
Ron Gaines (12:43):
Yes, sir, stakes are a lot higher, so what I like
about that, what you're saying,and that's where I see,
naturally and logically, wherethe customer success
organization comes along.
Right, that's where customersuccess plays a key role in this
(13:05):
.
Sometimes where we provide thevalue, because maybe we do get
past what we call conversion.
But the customer, the valuethat they were looking for,
doesn't mean that they're donebeing a customer and are done
receiving value they werelooking for, doesn't mean that
they're done being a customerand are done receiving value.
That means we still need tomake sure that we do delivery to
the point that the customer isready to do business with us
again.
Right, and sometimes we knowsales can not tell the whole
story.
Or, I love my salespeople, myboots on the ground.
(13:26):
I love them because they arethe physical embodiment of our
brand, so they're important.
However, their customers'expectations changes.
They get the product, they getthe service and they're like
well, I want it a little bitmore, I'm expecting this
grandiose thing here and it'slike maybe we need more support
(13:47):
here.
So, what service team nowprovides that added value that
the customer is looking for orcan give them some context to
what they may have missed inthese earlier parts of the
journey before they reallybought into our service or
product, right?
Jim Hertzfeld (14:00):
So I'm going to give you a tagline.
You can steal it or, you know,forget about it.
Ron Gaines (14:04):
This is good.
Jim Hertzfeld (14:04):
Let me see yeah, the job's not done until the job
is done.
How about that?
Maybe that's.
I don't know if there's-.
Ron Gaines (14:10):
That right there.
That's a hot take.
I don't know.
I like it.
I like it.
The job's not done until thejob is done.
Jim Hertzfeld (14:16):
Our job's not done.
Until your job's done, I don'tknow we can work on something
there.
But yeah, I like what you'resaying and this is actually
something we looked at atearlier this year about
post-purchase.
You know where we gethyper-focused on finding the
right customer, grabbing them,converting them, and you know
there's a lot of work and effortthat goes into getting a
(14:36):
customer and it's real easy tolose them.
So you know, sort of what I'mhearing is like yeah, there's a
lot of expectation setting in anomni-channel world that you got
to manage right.
So all the service, all theself-service, all this velocity.
But you know it sounds like ifyou do a really good job with
driving the content and theinsights, then you got to really
(14:59):
focus on that coordination andmaking everything whole.
Ron Gaines (15:03):
You want to know what my guiding light is for
this, Jim.
It's value, simple and plain.
I was talking to somebody likeyou know.
The transactional relationshipis great.
Of course, we want to get pastthat.
I don't knock the transactionalrelationship, but that
relationship is only in goodstanding as long as both parties
feel that the value thatthey're getting equates.
(15:23):
Once you feel like you're notgetting the most value from this
relationship, the relationshipis in jeopardy So, we have to
think about what value we'regetting across all touch points,
across the full landscape ofthe customer lifecycle.
So, being a customer and beingan advocate and all of those
mature things that we want toprogress our customers to.
(15:44):
But at the base level we'rethinking about, is it really
providing real value to thecustomer and to the brand?
And we can't take the brand outof it because they're a part of
the transaction and it's okayto make good because the
beginning of this relationshipis based off the transaction.
If I do not get a good productand service, there is no
relationship.
But that cannot be the onlydetermining factor of our real
(16:07):
relations.
Jim Hertzfeld (16:08):
And as soon as that customer has an idea that
they could go, maybe they got analternative right?
Yes, sir, you know like as soonas they get there, they start
questioning hmm, am I reallygetting the value out of these
guys from start to finish, right?
That doubt starts to creep inand you're like, hmm, I guess I
have more options.
Maybe I should reevaluate.
(16:28):
You know how I'm doing it.
That would keep me up at night.
That does keep me up at night.
It does.
Ron Gaines (16:34):
And, for me, being a digital practitioner, I'm
looking at giving some dope backas a target for this discussion
.
Right, we are a legacy business,analog business, brick and
mortar stores.
However, I need to see all ofthe rich value and experience
(16:55):
that a customer receives whenthey enter into one of those
locations, inquire about aservice or equipment for rent
and then get that value, go onto use that equipment, get the
value out of that, come back toour brand, making sure that
transaction is closed, theirneeds are met, et cetera.
How do I do that in a digitalmedium?
How do I start to do thatbefore I even get there from my
(17:15):
marketing medium?
I have to translate this, Ihave to figure this out, and so
I am being very acute to all ofthe little nuances of data and
behavior and anything that acustomer can tell me through
this digital medium and variouschannels, and tools and
technologies that I can providethat value and understand like,
hey, maybe they're just shoppingus, that's fine.
(17:35):
Get the information you need tomake your decision and why you
may want to come back there,that's important.
important.
that there that, important,
Jim Hertzfeld (17:47):
of things.
I love your really holisticthinking around this.
Ron Gaines (18:08):
Yeah, it's so important because, as marketers,
sometimes we lose our way andwe don't understand what our
real purpose is.
Our purpose is to communicatevalue.
We have one of the mostimportant roles in a brand
communication of our valueproposition.
Why us versus them?
That is what we do and weshould do that really well.
Yes, we have demand gen and allof these other auxiliary
(18:32):
functions and roles that arebeing added to marketing.
Core of it - understand how tocommunicate our value.
Well, two, I would say
Jim Hertzfeld (18:41):
We only need one, but do you want a bonus.
No, I got to have a bonus.
I got to have a bonus becauseit's not so black and white.
Giving the customer a voice isvery important, and I think we
have a unique position to do so,because we talked about how
intent is the holy grail.
Well, how do we know intent?
The customer knows their intent.
They're the ones who can tellyou they what need.
(19:02):
Hey, guess what?
Your checkout experience sucks?
Ah, I understand what thefriction and abandonment on my
checkout is, because it's justsucks! We have to give the
customer an actual voice to letthem know how they want to
receive value from us.
It's very, very important we do, though.
That's awesome.
I'm glad you came back with thebonus.
(19:23):
What to do is, I'm actuallygoing to take that myself, right
?
Be the voice.
It's almost like a calling,right?
Be that voice, be that advocate.
So yeah that's awesome, Ron.
Ron, great stuff, man.
I love working with you, lovehearing your stories.
Thanks for coming on the showagain and we'll talk to you
later.
Ron Gaines (19:41):
Jim, thank you.
This has been a pleasure.
Can't wait to come again, havemore dialogue with you, sir,
awesome, awesome.
Joe Wentzel (19:48):
You've been listening to What If?
So, What?
A digital strategy podcast fromPerficient with Jim Hertzfeld.
We want to thank our Perficientcolleagues JD Norman and Rick
Bauer for our music.
Subscribe to the podcast anddon't miss a single episode.
You can find this season, alongwith show notes, at Perficient.
(20:14):
com.
Thanks for listening.
We need to streamline the tools and devices
that they are actuallycapturing customer information
and needs and that is beingactivated across our business in
near real time as much as realtime as possible, so that we can
then stop issues between salesinformation and data and the
data that we're using and thatwe're banking on in digital
practices and functions in thebusiness.
Jim Hertzfeld (00:27):
Welcome to what If so what, the podcast where we
explore what's possible withdigital and discover how to make
it real in your business.
I'm your host, Jim Hertzfeld,and we get s--- done by asking
digital leaders the rightquestions what, if so what and,
most importantly now, what?
Hey, I'm really excited to havethe next guest, Ron Gaines.
He's the Senior Manager ofMarketing, Technology and
(00:49):
Analytics for Sunbelt Rentals.
Ron, thanks for joining.
Great to see you today.
Ron Gaines (00:53):
It is a pleasure, Jim.
Jim Hertzfeld (00:55):
I'm super excited to be on today, chat with you a
little bit.
Because we've done a lot ofwork with you, so I know what
you're going through, I knowwhat you've been through, I know
what you're dealing with but alot of people don't maybe not
be familiar with with Sunbelt,maybe a little bit of background
about Sunbelt and kind of thelike, " What makes you guys a
little special.
Ron Gaines (01:13):
Yeah, we are a global company, a global
enterprise that specializes inspecialty equipment and
equipment rentals.
We have over 550,000 pieces offleet in the continental US with
over 1,400 plus locations inthe US to provide that value to
our customers.
So you will know us by thegreen equipment on construction
(01:36):
sites.
You will usually see them.
Once you see them, you can'tstop seeing them, right and all
the time.
And you know what man.
Now, for me it brings a lot ofpride when I see that equipment
on construction sites because itshows that you know we have a
presence and that we providereal value to customers doing
hard work.
Jim Hertzfeld (01:55):
Right, right, it is hard work.
Yeah, I know right where mylocal Sunbelt is, by the way,
it's just maybe a couple ofmiles.
Ron Gaines (02:01):
Yes, that is what we are planning, and have
everybody know where their localSunbelt is.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:07):
That's great.
It's great.
Yes, sir, and I'm a DIYer, sousually I got to rent equipment,
so uh, listen, man, that's apersona.
Ron Gaines (02:14):
We focus on you too.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:16):
The pro home guy.
Yeah, yeah, that's what we callthem.
I can know enough to bedangerous and that's what we
like.
Ron Gaines (02:23):
That's what we like.
You're the perfect person forus.
Jim Hertzfeld (02:26):
Awesome.
I have no shortage of ideas andprojects I want to accomplish,
so talk to your wife.
You know what this is?
Just like I would.
Sometimes I will look at apiece of equipment I didn't know
existed and I'll say, whoa, Ididn't know you could do that.
That could make my life easier.
That might actually prompt aproject idea.
So I need to get in and startbrowsing.
Ron Gaines (02:46):
And I think that's a really interesting thing that
for consumers like yourself tounderstand that we have so many
types of equipment.
Let's say you're doing thispodcast and you want to do a
movie or a documentary.
We have film and TV rentalequipment.
Really, see film productionfrom Sunbelt Rentals.
Yes, maybe you want to throw aconcert?
We can supply everything youneed to put that concert on.
(03:09):
It can be from a power tool todoing a movie.
We have the equipment for you.
Jim Hertzfeld (03:14):
All right, see, now I'm going to make a movie.
I didn't even know I had to.
Yes, sir, all right, that'sawesome inspiration, Ron.
So you know you guys are,you're on a mission, I think
traditional.
Like you mentioned construction.
You know that's gone on for along time.
It's one of those industrieswhere the construction manager,
the construction crew, he wins abid, they got a crew together,
(03:37):
they got to show up on site andit doesn't change a lot.
But what from your perspective?
I mean, they didn't always havea senior manager of marketing,
technology and analytics.
So, what sort of changed in theworld?
When you look at this space ofequipment, what have you seen
that has driven the business?
Good question.
Ron Gaines (03:56):
So, while I like to say we support an industry
that's as old as the advent ofthe wheel, right I -
infrastructure and constructionand building but our customers'
expectations and modernizationand digitalization has changed,
right?
We were talking prior to thisthat, you know, once COVID hit,
it accelerated and matureddigital light years, right?
(04:18):
And now that became mainstaytable stakes and a part of
consumers' evolving expectationsgoing forward.
They expect to get value from abrand not only through analog
in our legacy brick and mortarstores, like we do have, but
they want to be able to shoponline.
They want to see what other andadditional value that they can
(04:40):
get from our brand throughdigital mediums.
Jim Hertzfeld (04:42):
Yeah, and they want it kind of on their terms,
right?
So you guys have to and I kindof see this a lot too, right?
One of the things that we hearfrom a lot of customers is
what's our customer thinking?
What's on their mind?
How do I get to know them?
Like you said, they wantinstant access, they want to be
informed.
They certainly haveexpectations, and you guys are
(05:03):
doing a lot to make that happen,right?
You have a website.
You put your catalog, you putthe availability up there.
But the way they think and shopchanges all the time.
So how do you guys keep up withthat?
Ron Gaines (05:15):
Staying connected, insisting on a relationship.
You mentioned a couple of keythings to me.
The customers and our endusers' expectations are
constantly evolving.
We talked about that.
Digital has become a mainstay,but with that, understanding the
customer needs is the holygrail of a brand providing real
value.
And digital has some challengeswith that because to understand
(05:37):
true intent it's not an easything.
But if you insist on getting toknow your customer, it's like
if we had a brick and mortarthat came in and they you know,
I don't care what I was selling,I got to know that person.
I got to know their family,their kids and I got to know who
they are.
I start to understand and learnmore about them and I learned
how to provide better value tothem based on what I do know.
(06:00):
So to me it's really getting toknow your customer.
It is giving them theopportunity to show you what
they need from the brand andthen the brand responding in
kind.
Right?
Because without that valueexchange there isn't any
business and there isn't anyconsumer.
Jim Hertzfeld (06:18):
So what are some of the ways you do that, Ron,
like, do you go out to the store, do you go out to the job site?
What are some of the ways thatyou guys try and keep your
finger on the pulse?
Ron Gaines (06:28):
Yeah, we do have our legacy sales force.
We have people on the groundwho are creating real
relationships and lastingrelationships with customers,
and that doesn't change.
But with that we need to alsomake sure that the customer and
the brand could understand thecompany, they can understand the
customer, and they can have asingular view of that customer
(06:50):
internally to know this is theirpreference.
They prefer to shop at thisparticular location versus that
location.
Split the difference, it couldbe almost seven, eight miles in
either direction, but theyprefer that one, or hey, I
actually prefer to talk to mysalesperson or I want to just
shop online and check out.
So, to answer your questionspecifically, I think it's
(07:12):
really getting in tune with thedata.
We are doing a lot tounderstand our customer and our
customer needs by theinformation that they're giving
us and making sure that thereare opportunities for them to
give us that information and usto make something out of that
information, really providevalue from it.
Jim Hertzfeld (07:29):
So you've got these relationship builders
right, these sales team andthese guys.
I'm just drawing like a, I'mpainting a picture of these guys
.
They know, they understand thejob site.
They know where these guys are.
They've been to the shops.
Maybe they play golf.
They've probably been to abarbecue or two with these guys.
And there's a lot of justinherent information.
(07:50):
It's pretty valuable, butyou're also looking at the other
end of the spectrum.
You're collecting the databecause they're doing more
online, because they're movingmore digitally, you have more
data to look at.
I'm guessing that's where theanalytics part of your title
comes in.
Is that?
Ron Gaines (08:04):
Yes, that's the whole second day job.
Yeah, the night job.
Jim Hertzfeld (08:10):
What happens when you know sort of the field
sales team and the data start toclash?
Have you had that experienceyet?
Ron Gaines (08:16):
Yeah, I mean it happens right, and good input is
good output.
We're only as good as the datathat we collect.
Right, and that is also anenablement piece of it.
We can never split the factthat marketing, while its true
purpose is to communicate thevalue proposition to the
customer, for internally it'salso sales enablement, service
(08:37):
enablement function, as well.
Right, so that means okay, whatmethods are our field sales
team collecting this information?
Is it a method that ourmethodology leaves little error
or has a lot of error in thisprocess?
Initial expression, for instance, right, like a lot of us know
about that and our sales teamsusing a variety of tools to
capture information, but we needto make it easy to use.
(09:00):
Maybe we need to streamline thetools and devices that they are
actually capturing customerinformation and needs and that
is being activated across ourbusiness in near real time, as
much as real time as possible,so that we can then stop issues
between sales information anddata and the data that we're
using and that we're banking onin digital practices and
(09:21):
functions in the business.
Jim Hertzfeld (09:23):
I remember years ago I was working on a sales
forecasting project and thisthing was super sophisticated
for its time - millions ofdollars.
College professors, you know,were consulted on this thing I
mean, it was very sophisticatedat the time went through all
these data integration, wentthrough all these complex
computational cycles and thenthe one requirement that the
(09:45):
sales team absolutely had tohave was the ability to override
the sales forecast that wespent all these millions of
dollars on with their own number, which happened like 100% of
the time.
Like yeah, I don't think I'mgoing to make that number, I'm
going to downgrade it.
So, it's just funny to me how,again, data and reality have to
meet.
Are there areas where you thinkyou know you've really gotten
(10:07):
that right?
And I guess I'll ask it thisway, Did you ever give a sales
team an insight and they saidyou know what?
I didn't know that was coming?
I didn't see it that way, kindof putting you on the spot here,
but can you think of an areawhere the sales organization
really, really yeah, I think oneof the areas that again, back
(10:29):
to that enablement functionbecause we got to understand
their role and our role.
Ron Gaines (10:33):
I think one area that I've seen, even in my many
lives as a professional, iscontent.
Content is important.
It's one of their primary toolsto do their job of making good
on the value proposition thatmarketing has already put out to
market.
Right?
Now it's the sales team and thecontent to continue to bring
them along and mature thatconversation to their customer
(10:55):
who's ready to do business withthis brand?
So we've seen where salespeoplecreate their own content and
sales enable their content,right.
And then it's like, well, we'renot saying the same things
across all content and channels.
That may be confusing ourcustomer.
In the end, what is the realinformation to stand up?
This is the thing that I reallyinsist on around marketing and
(11:18):
sales organizations.
It's the expectation that we'regiving the customer.
Are we being consistent acrossthe customer lifecycle and the
journey?
Right?
If sales are not making good onwhat marketing says, that's an
issue.
If we're communicating multiplethings that conflict a little
bit.
Maybe this was our SLA for this, you know, maybe for our
delivery time, but we've changedprocesses and they have
(11:40):
outdated content - happens allthe time.
Or maybe it's the channel thatthe end user is coming in on and
we have a certain way that wewant to nurture them based on
the channel that they come in on.
Maybe sales has a different waythat they want to communicate
to this customer and maybe we'rethinking, hey, we've given them
this kind of expectation acrossthese channels.
Maybe you continue with thispart of the conversation before
(12:03):
you go into this information,right?
That is areas that I've seenspecifically where data and
marketing was able to enhancehow a salesperson communicated
to the end user to make surethat the experience was
consistent from interest toclose.
Jim Hertzfeld (12:19):
Well, and this is the content I mean you kind of
bring up like a really basicpoint.
You know, I was thinking not somuch insights, but if we're
creating all this velocity,right.
Ron Gaines (12:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Jim Hertzfeld (12:29):
Right, because they've got self-service access
to the content.
But what if it's in conflict,if it's wrong?
And I'm thinking about boy,what happens when there's a
safety issue?
Right Now, we're getting diceyright.
Well, we have a recall or analert, or a safety bulletin,
right?
Ron Gaines (12:43):
Yes, sir, stakes are a lot higher, so what I like
about that, what you're saying,and that's where I see,
naturally and logically, wherethe customer success
organization comes along.
Right, that's where customersuccess plays a key role in this
(13:05):
.
Sometimes where we provide thevalue, because maybe we do get
past what we call conversion.
But the customer, the valuethat they were looking for,
doesn't mean that they're donebeing a customer and are done
receiving value they werelooking for, doesn't mean that
they're done being a customerand are done receiving value.
That means we still need tomake sure that we do delivery to
the point that the customer isready to do business with us
again.
Right, and sometimes we knowsales can not tell the whole
story.
Or, I love my salespeople, myboots on the ground.
(13:26):
I love them because they arethe physical embodiment of our
brand, so they're important.
However, their customers'expectations changes.
They get the product, they getthe service and they're like
well, I want it a little bitmore, I'm expecting this
grandiose thing here and it'slike maybe we need more support
(13:47):
here.
So, what service team nowprovides that added value that
the customer is looking for orcan give them some context to
what they may have missed inthese earlier parts of the
journey before they reallybought into our service or
product, right?
Jim Hertzfeld (14:00):
So I'm going to give you a tagline.
You can steal it or, you know,forget about it.
Ron Gaines (14:04):
This is good.
Jim Hertzfeld (14:04):
Let me see yeah, the job's not done until the job
is done.
How about that?
Maybe that's.
I don't know if there's-.
Ron Gaines (14:10):
That right there.
That's a hot take.
I don't know.
I like it.
I like it.
The job's not done until thejob is done.
Jim Hertzfeld (14:16):
Our job's not done.
Until your job's done, I don'tknow we can work on something
there.
But yeah, I like what you'resaying and this is actually
something we looked at atearlier this year about
post-purchase.
You know where we gethyper-focused on finding the
right customer, grabbing them,converting them, and you know
there's a lot of work and effortthat goes into getting a
(14:36):
customer and it's real easy tolose them.
So you know, sort of what I'mhearing is like yeah, there's a
lot of expectation setting in anomni-channel world that you got
to manage right.
So all the service, all theself-service, all this velocity.
But you know it sounds like ifyou do a really good job with
driving the content and theinsights, then you got to really
(14:59):
focus on that coordination andmaking everything whole.
Ron Gaines (15:03):
You want to know what my guiding light is for
this, Jim.
It's value, simple and plain.
I was talking to somebody likeyou know.
The transactional relationshipis great.
Of course, we want to get pastthat.
I don't knock the transactionalrelationship, but that
relationship is only in goodstanding as long as both parties
feel that the value thatthey're getting equates.
(15:23):
Once you feel like you're notgetting the most value from this
relationship, the relationshipis in jeopardy So, we have to
think about what value we'regetting across all touch points,
across the full landscape ofthe customer lifecycle.
So, being a customer and beingan advocate and all of those
mature things that we want toprogress our customers to.
(15:44):
But at the base level we'rethinking about, is it really
providing real value to thecustomer and to the brand?
And we can't take the brand outof it because they're a part of
the transaction and it's okayto make good because the
beginning of this relationshipis based off the transaction.
If I do not get a good productand service, there is no
relationship.
But that cannot be the onlydetermining factor of our real
(16:07):
relations.
Jim Hertzfeld (16:08):
And as soon as that customer has an idea that
they could go, maybe they got analternative right?
Yes, sir, you know like as soonas they get there, they start
questioning hmm, am I reallygetting the value out of these
guys from start to finish, right?
That doubt starts to creep inand you're like, hmm, I guess I
have more options.
Maybe I should reevaluate.
(16:28):
You know how I'm doing it.
That would keep me up at night.
That does keep me up at night.
It does.
Ron Gaines (16:34):
And, for me, being a digital practitioner, I'm
looking at giving some dope backas a target for this discussion
.
Right, we are a legacy business,analog business, brick and
mortar stores.
However, I need to see all ofthe rich value and experience
(16:55):
that a customer receives whenthey enter into one of those
locations, inquire about aservice or equipment for rent
and then get that value, go onto use that equipment, get the
value out of that, come back toour brand, making sure that
transaction is closed, theirneeds are met, et cetera.
How do I do that in a digitalmedium?
How do I start to do thatbefore I even get there from my
(17:15):
marketing medium?
I have to translate this, Ihave to figure this out, and so
I am being very acute to all ofthe little nuances of data and
behavior and anything that acustomer can tell me through
this digital medium and variouschannels, and tools and
technologies that I can providethat value and understand like,
hey, maybe they're just shoppingus, that's fine.
(17:35):
Get the information you need tomake your decision and why you
may want to come back there,that's important.
important.
that there that, important,
Jim Hertzfeld (17:47):
of things.
I love your really holisticthinking around this.
Ron Gaines (18:08):
Yeah, it's so important because, as marketers,
sometimes we lose our way andwe don't understand what our
real purpose is.
Our purpose is to communicatevalue.
We have one of the mostimportant roles in a brand
communication of our valueproposition.
Why us versus them?
That is what we do and weshould do that really well.
Yes, we have demand gen and allof these other auxiliary
(18:32):
functions and roles that arebeing added to marketing.
Core of it - understand how tocommunicate our value.
Well, two, I would say
Jim Hertzfeld (18:41):
We only need one, but do you want a bonus.
No, I got to have a bonus.
I got to have a bonus becauseit's not so black and white.
Giving the customer a voice isvery important, and I think we
have a unique position to do so,because we talked about how
intent is the holy grail.
Well, how do we know intent?
The customer knows their intent.
They're the ones who can tellyou they what need.
(19:02):
Hey, guess what?
Your checkout experience sucks?
Ah, I understand what thefriction and abandonment on my
checkout is, because it's justsucks! We have to give the
customer an actual voice to letthem know how they want to
receive value from us.
It's very, very important we do, though.
That's awesome.
I'm glad you came back with thebonus.
(19:23):
What to do is, I'm actuallygoing to take that myself, right
?
Be the voice.
It's almost like a calling,right?
Be that voice, be that advocate.
So yeah that's awesome, Ron.
Ron, great stuff, man.
I love working with you, lovehearing your stories.
Thanks for coming on the showagain and we'll talk to you
later.
Ron Gaines (19:41):
Jim, thank you.
This has been a pleasure.
Can't wait to come again, havemore dialogue with you, sir,
awesome, awesome.
Joe Wentzel (19:48):
You've been listening to What If?
So, What?
A digital strategy podcast fromPerficient with Jim Hertzfeld.
We want to thank our Perficientcolleagues JD Norman and Rick
Bauer for our music.
Subscribe to the podcast anddon't miss a single episode.
You can find this season, alongwith show notes, at Perficient.
(20:14):
com.
Thanks for listening.
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