September 1, 2024 • 64 mins
Welcome to part 2 of our two-part news special! Yes, we have slacked off in getting into the latest happenings and changes in the NDIS world, so here we are with a two-part special. This conversation was recorded on the 26th of August 2024, and sooo many extra news items have come up since our previous episode so we are back for part 2.
We get into the government's 'response' to the Disability Royal Commission, the legislative changes that recently passed through parliament, new worker registration categories, and also what is and what is not an NDIS support... strap in!
If you want to get in touch with us, you can:
Contact the podcast whatinthendispod@gmail.com
Contact Hannah hello@plandecoders.com.au
Contact Sam sam@rosenbaum.consulting
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We acknowledge the original owners of the land on which we podcast, whose stories were told for
(00:05):
thousands of years. Today we are recording in Mianjin. We pay our respects to elders past
and present who may be listening. Sovereignty was never ceded. A quick note before we get started,
that there may be some swearing in today's podcast. If you don't like swearing or usually
listen with children in the car, you have been warned. This episode of What in the NDIS Now is
(00:32):
brought to you by Astalti. Astalti is the software solution for NDIS professionals built by NDIS
professionals. Astalti is my go-to software and Astalti is trusted and loved by hundreds of other
NDIS providers. I love how easy it is to use and how it keeps all my participant information,
(00:56):
notes and invoicing all in one place available to me anytime from any device. Sign up now for your
14-day free trial. Head to Astalti.com.au to sign up now. See for yourself how much easier managing
all your NDIS business needs are by using Astalti. Thanks again to Astalti for sponsoring today's
(01:21):
episode. You're listening to What in the NDIS The News, a podcast where I, Hannah Redford,
and my friend, Sam Rosenbaum, discuss all the hot topics out of the NDIS.
Hi, Sam. How are you going? Hey, yeah, really good, Hannah, yourself? Yeah, good. You had a busy
(01:46):
weekend. I had a wonderful weekend. I don't know if busy would be the words I used, but oh well,
look, we're taking me. It was relaxing. I got away. I had some downtime, but I don't know if
that was the best time in courtesy of the government release having a push on the
amendments and the new changes coming out. So it's a bit of a hit and miss, I guess,
(02:06):
in that respect, but good. Yeah. So the day that we're recording is Monday the 26th of August,
2024, just in case they come up with something tomorrow and you're like, why didn't they include
this or that? Because we're recording today and we can only do so much in a recording.
(02:31):
Look, and I'm sure we've missed things on our list, but it has been a bit of a
rampant roller coaster over the last short wee while. Yes. So without further ado, let's get into it.
Cool. So the first thing I wanted to talk about is the government's response to the Disability
(02:53):
Royal Commission, Sam. Or more lack of a response, but very much so. Their response nonetheless.
I have this term where no responses are still a response when I get challenged on a few things
or when I ask a question and people go silent. And that definitely is the vibes of all of this
(03:20):
as well. Oh yes. Big, big vibes. So the first thing to understand is that the government spent
over $500 million on this commission into abuse and neglect of people with disabilities.
(03:40):
The commission had 12 volumes and more than 5,000 pages in the report. They had 222 recommendations
in those 5,000 pages. And Sam, how many do you think the federal government agreed to in full of
(04:03):
222? Well, the optimists inside me would like to say that I would think all of them,
in principle at least, but the insider of me knows the reality is a starking and absolutely abysmal
state of affairs. So in the government's response, they make this all nice and shiny by saying,
(04:29):
accepts or accepts in principle, 130 recommendations. And you think, whoa, that's great.
Except with the little caveat there of how they worded it on accepts or accepts in principle,
which are two different things. So of the actually the government's accepts
rather recommendations, how many were there Hannah? 13. 13. It's absolute. Yeah. Outrageous.
(04:55):
Then we've also got 117 that they're accepting in principle, which means they essentially agree
with that who knows what's going to happen with that and is considering a further 36 of the
recommendation and notes six of the recommendations. Hold on. There's another 42, if my maths is
(05:16):
correct, that they've gone probably not or like a yeah, nah type scenario. They're kind of keeping
in scope that they have the primary or shared responsibility for the recommendations of 172 of
the recommendations. So they've gone through and gone, these are ours, where this is what we'll
(05:40):
tackle. We haven't had time to sort of go through the list line by one, but
there are definitely are the works being done in the background. I am sure to get that through to
us. Yeah. So I wanted to highlight one of the things. There's a recommendation to establish
a new Disability Rights Act and a standalone disability commission to enforce it. And Minister
(06:06):
Amanda Rishworth, who is the social services minister, said that it's still under consideration.
Now, this pisses me off because this seems to me to be a no brainer and an easy win that the
(06:27):
government could have because they could put a Disability Rights Act in and everyone would accept
it. And like the fact that they're saying that they don't want to is extraordinary to me.
Well, if you look at parliament in the recent months, they've managed to pull together some
(06:53):
very big legislation and push it through very quickly. We look at what's happened with the
union recently down in Melbourne and then also the NDIS Act itself. This sort of has happened within
the last six months, all of it. They pulled together the stuff about the unions very quickly
together. So they've proved themselves capable of getting legislation together and passed. So
(07:23):
anything short of just getting it done is really twiddling their thumbs or sweeping it under the
mat. Yeah, yeah. It's beyond my comprehension and I'm pretty frustrated with them. Oh, so let's go
talking about the latest legislation that went through parliament and just went through last
(07:52):
week. Let's have a talk about some of the changes to that legislation. So what's the first one
you want to tackle, Sam? So yeah, so just in case anyone's not fully aware of, on the 22nd of August
of this year, the NDIS Scheme Amendment, getting the NDIS Back on Track Number 1 Bill was passed
(08:18):
by parliament. So that effectively brings in a whole heap of new changes to both the NDIS Act,
different things that are happening with service provision, things that are impacting a lot of
people in a lot of different ways. So one of those first ones that is changing is Section 24 of the
(08:38):
NDIS Act, which is disability requirements. It's had been updated to clarify that a person should
only access supports or access the NDIS if they require support, which are NDIS supports. So that
which is NDIS supports is part of another thing that's changed to the legislation, which is Section
(09:00):
10, which covers NDIS supports. There's essentially now a new list together that says what is and is
not a NDIS support. And we're definitely going to get into that next sort of big... And also, just to
let you all know that we are two doofuses just talking on a podcast. And while we research this
(09:23):
and we have the best of intentions, we are not lawyers. We are not saying we know exactly what's
happening. This is just information for you to have a little bit of more information. We are not
saying that we are experts in any sort of way or form. We are just presenting you information that
(09:47):
the Minister Shorten put out himself. So what's next, Sam? Where are we going next?
Section 34, Supports for Impairment. So this also goes into that the NDIS will only fund your NDIS
support related to the impairment you meet access for. So this is a big one that has caused quite a
(10:13):
lot of confusion with a lot of participants. And I know that as a support coordinator, you have
experienced the troubles that participants have understanding where they might have, let's say,
a disability... An autism diagnosis, and that's why they're on the NDIS. But they might have some
other problems that they're needing support for. And the guidelines of having... That you're only
(10:35):
allowed to have your supports for supports can be very confusing as well. It's been a bit of a mess.
Yeah. Look, and beyond that, sometimes I've had participants with a list of 10 or 20 diagnoses
that they put forward when they met access. And then the NDIS turns around and says, oh, no,
(10:58):
we won't fund that because that's not one of the diagnoses or impairments that you met access for.
And you go, what? What do you mean? And the issue has been that the NDIS, when you've met access,
they've decided which ones actually meet access and they've thrown out the other ones, but they
don't tell you. And so part of this law is that now what they're going to do is it will be written
(11:25):
on your plan what impairments, that's the word they're going with, which, you know, is up to
for debate about why we've used impairments, but that's the word they're using. So that's the word
we're going to use for this minute. So they're going to have it written on your plan so that
(11:50):
you know exactly which ones you met access for and thus which ones they will fund supports for.
So that's interesting. And then it seems to be saying that support providers would then need to
know that because they're not allowed to provide supports that are not related to the impairments
(12:18):
you met access for. And this is a huge, then a concern because by and large participants
don't slash shouldn't share their plan with a provider. So how do providers find out
exactly what impairments are written into the plan and what aren't?
(12:38):
One thing I would like to see from a provider's perspective, because there's always been this
push from providers to try that would prefer to see the plans, they can get the goals, they can
get the details. They don't need the budget, but they also need a mechanism to easily
confirm that budget's available and that they're not going to end up over servicing anyone.
(13:03):
So there always needs to be a secondary provider plan that you can give out to providers to make
all of this thing. But then it still goes down to the debate of why should I have to give someone
my list of impairments if I don't want them to know everything about me?
Flash?
Because there are a lot of providers and a lot of people, and this was heavily emphasized
(13:30):
in the Royal Commission. So yeah, there's still a lot of stigma and stereotyping around disabilities.
And when someone has to say what their disability is, people automatically assume certain things.
And no provider can say that they fully don't kind of make assumptions when they hear certain
things in the long run.
(13:51):
Oh, I completely agree. And I think to me, this is a concern, but I guess we've got to see how it
plays out.
Hmm, 100%. As I said from the beginning of all of this, when the NDL's review came out,
that the biggest risk for this is implementation. But I've been currently biting my words.
(14:16):
But I think this is fucked. I'll just say that up front. I think this is fucked. And then we can
see how it goes from the position of this is fucked and the bar is on the floor apparently.
So there we go.
Well, look, if Bill Shawn wants to save his ass and come bring it back, he's got a lot of work to
(14:36):
do because he's broken trust of a lot of people. And as he said at the start of all this, he needs
the trust of the community to bring all of this along. And he's doing a very good job of
dissociating a lot of the community.
The next sort of big key one is section 44, which is plan management decision. And this is
(14:59):
something very concerning in a couple of aspects. And also, I need a lot more clarity, I still think.
So the NDIS can consider changing your plan management type in certain circumstances. So
that means they can change you from self-management to plan management or from plan management to
agency management on a couple of conditions. If they think that the participant, the participant's
(15:26):
nominee, plan manager or representative are unlikely to spend NDIS funds properly relating
to NDIS supports and in line with your plan. So that comes back to a lot of things that we've
already discussed around and we've got a bit more to go into, especially around NDIS supports.
And then some of that stuff around the impairments and the requirement, disability requirements.
(15:49):
Yeah. Well, and to a point, they can already do this. This is already a thing that they,
if they are concerned about what you are doing, they can change your plan, how your plan is
managed. So this isn't totally out of nowhere, but it is, I think, more concerning with when
(16:12):
it's in conjunction with the work, everyone in the workforce now having to be registered.
So yeah, I don't know. I don't know, Sam. I don't know what's going on.
Yeah. So, and the registration space as well is something that is coming up. We'll get into
(16:32):
that after we finish going through this part. There's a couple more to go through section 33.
So total funding amounts, component amounts and funding period. So plans approved after the law
comes into effect will have total funding amounts, funding component amounts and funding periods.
This classifies the amount of funds available in the plan and how long the funds need to last.
(16:57):
So some of this is reflective of what we're seeing in PACE with quarterly spends,
budgets, but also then kind of means that there's not the buckets that we're kind of used to in the
new framework plans, but there are some sort of things. So now if you've still got a current plan,
(17:18):
you'll still be able to use your funding amounts as they are standing in order to affect new plans.
There are a bit more about it. So if you are concerned, definitely jump in and speak to your
plan manager, support coordinator, or get in touch with the agency to specifically, in the LAC,
to specifically see how it might affect your plan within your circumstances.
(17:39):
Another one for note that has been quite a fair bit of talk about in the media
and on our fellow podcasts, which is section 30 information gathering for deciding whether to
revoke a participant status. So that's where the agency can specifically request information or
require you to do certain things like undergo an assessment if they're considering to revoke your
(18:03):
status as a participant. If the participant doesn't comply with the request within a reasonable
timeframe, the NDIS may revoke your access to the NDIS based on this. However, more time can be
allowed if that it's reasonable. So if there's issues with getting certain documentation or
finding that specific person to write the report, you can definitely speak to the agency, but you
(18:25):
need to be upfront with them and go, this is the trouble, this is how long it's going to take.
They haven't actually specified the timeframe, I don't think, but I can't remember.
And more of that will be in the legislative instruments, which are the rules of the
legislation that they have to follow that will give us more clarity around that.
(18:49):
So a big one for providers to be aware of is section 45A, which is claims and payment
framework. So introduction of legislation claims and payment frameworks, the NDIS to provide
clarity on how claims should be made. This impacts all participants and providers from the
(19:10):
commencement and will later be all claims made within two years of the providing support.
So this will mean that it comes into effect as soon as the law comes in. So then the next,
I can't remember what the date would be, but it was 28 days from last Thursday.
Just a note for all providers, for the first 12 months, the NDIA will honour all claims made
(19:38):
for supports provided before the law came into effect. So if you've got sort of payments or
supports that might not have necessarily fit some of the new NDIS support lists, they'll still pay
out for those that you will need to look and review at your services in terms of the claims.
The other sort of key one is supports need assessment. So under the planning framework,
(20:03):
participants will undergo a needs assessment which records their whole of person disability
support needs. The NDIS will fund needs which arise from the impairment in relation to which
the participant meets the disability requirements and or the early investment requirements.
This will impact participants who have transitioned to new framework plans.
(20:26):
There's no impact until the support needs assessment process is created. So there's still
a bit of co-design work that needs to happen there. And the overall implementation timing
is still yet to be confirmed based on the whole co-design. Hi JD. All of them are going off.
(20:49):
So Sam, I'm concerned about the support needs assessment. I think this looks dodgy to me.
We did talk about this last episode. So we won't go much into it this time.
(21:11):
Listen to the last episode if you haven't already. But short summary, it smells like
an independent assessment. So it's really concerning. Yeah. But the sort of part of
the changes that we haven't lightly touched on is section 10 which is the NDIS support. So this
introduces a definition of NDIS supports which are supports that can be funded by the NDIS
(21:37):
and declared by the NDIS rules to be NDIS supports. A substitution rule will enable
participants to request to substitute a support that is not an NDIS support in individual
circumstances so they can claim and use that support. Question being though, is of this 0.05%
(22:02):
of people that require or utilise sex work in their plans currently, would they be able to apply
for a substitute support in this instance? Look, I think that is it though. So the support
(22:23):
list, there are 36 categories of NDIS supports that are on the in list or the nice list. And
there's a naughty list if you are of the Christmas persuasion or there's an in list and an out list.
(22:44):
However you look at it, there's 36 on the in list which to me is problematic for starters because
36, that's a lot, Sam. Not that I don't think we need all 36, we like absolutely do and probably
(23:06):
actually more. My concern is the fact that how in holy heck does anyone start to wrap their head
around 36 different support categories? And how are we all meant to get our heads around all of this?
(23:30):
I would just like to say that the Summer Foundation prevents reasonable and necessary supports with
Dr George. Their episode on this alone went for over an hour. I'm not quite sure it caps you
everything. Yeah, so we're going to try and go as fast as we can but just to know that there are
(23:54):
36, we're not going to go through all 36 that are on the in list and then there's 15 on the out list
or the naughty list. Also to explain that there are, there's a thing, there's things called carve
outs. So on the in list, carve outs are things that are not NDIS supports and on the out list or on
(24:22):
the naughty list, a carve out is something that may be then available to you. So it's the words
that they are using themselves, they're contradicting themselves all over the lists, making these lists
even harder to understand. So what we wanted to do for now is highlight a couple of things on the
(24:45):
out list because we felt they were really important for people to understand a couple of things that
we noted. Now there are heaps more, like we said there's 15 different categories on the no list or
on the out list or on the naughty list, whatever you want to call it. The list of supports that are
(25:08):
not NDIS supports. So one of the first one I wanted to bring up with you Sam was about electricity
generators. Now on that episode of that podcast you pointed out, one of the guests explains that
this is because they, the NDIS deem that electricity generators are there to keep people alive and
(25:38):
breathing typically and thus it is medical not disability. So the medical system is responsible
for these backup generators. My issue is okay fine, Medicare or the medical system is responsible now
(25:58):
for these, organising these electricity generators, but who in that system is responsible for that?
That is my concern with a lot of the things on this list that sure you can say this is medical,
that's medical, the next thing is medical, but who in that system is then turning around and
(26:20):
organising you an electricity backup generator? Who is then turning around and organising
your other bits and pieces? Like I haven't met these people. You've sort of got to the point or
the issue at hand with all of this, including the new Act and Amendment and the government's sort of
(26:46):
approach and how they've gone about this all, which is to, they are yet to respond to the NDIS review
in the first place and as part of all of that and what they're, the move to foundational supports,
(27:09):
specialist foundational and general foundational supports, as well as that the Navigator Program
as well, which is meant to be able to support people that would not be eligible to NDIS to get
those supports. All of this was meant to happen over a five year timeframe, not in six months.
(27:32):
Yeah, yeah and well even if you had a navigator, right, if you are on the NDIS but also just
happen to need a backup generator that is then, like the fact that then these navigators have to
become experts in 20 different systems, not just the NDIS now, because then they have to be an
(28:00):
expert in, well, oh no, that funding comes from over here. No, that funding comes from over here.
Like, what the fuck kind of superhuman are they expecting to be these navigators if it all comes
back down to navigators? Well, it's in one of the last public forums with Bill Shorten and Bruce
(28:25):
Bonahady, the co-chair, there was a statement made that support coordinators won't be ruled out.
Support coordinators are staying, navigators aren't going to replace them, navigators are
primarily there for people that don't have access to the NDIS and therefore don't have access to a
support coordinator is the statement that was made. However, everything kind of contradicts
(28:48):
everything in this current world and without a clear outline or response from the government on
it, it's very hard to sort of say which way is north sometimes. But, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The point on the electricity generators is that, yes, you're fundamentally right, the health system
(29:10):
is not set up or designed to be able to fund generators, which means generally speaking,
they're going to push it to that, they're going to push people to nursing homes where they have
those kind of facilities and then that kind of defeats the purpose because the whole point is
to keep people out of aged care facilities for that. So, it is a very lovely conundrum of a
situation when you sort of think about it in those sort of higher respect needs where there's medical
(29:34):
equipment that needs to be run 24-7 and we've had a couple of incidents very recently that have
been hitting the media and that's outrageous, like it's sad that those people had to go through that
because they couldn't get a generator. Yeah. And the governments are just playing handball
with responsibility and yet we're meant to have this system that empowers people to live their
(29:57):
best life. But if the power goes down because your best life is living in a rural area and you can't
get access to the generators or life-saving equipment that you need, then there's a problem
there. Yeah, because then your life stops and then you're not living your best life because there
(30:19):
isn't one. Forcing a country person to have to come into the city is like forcing us to go live,
like, well, I'll probably be okay for a bit of a while but I'm sure I'll throw many hissy fits,
but forcing city folk to go out into country, like, stupid. I still throw hissy fits and I live in
Brisbane because the freaking cafes are never open. Yeah, but you're from that. Where do your cafes open?
(30:46):
They need to be open in the afternoon, people. Yeah, well, my business partner Jason Winge is
about things closing too early as well. Yes. And anyone not from Victoria, you won't understand,
24-hour came up shopping and running around buying nerf guns at 3am and shooting people in the store.
But also, like, just a cafe open at three o'clock in the afternoon isn't that hard. And I don't
(31:11):
understand it, Sam, and I don't even live in a rural area and it makes me want to cry. Anyway,
back to the subject at hand. Okay, so one of the other things that are on the out list that you've
already pointed out was sex work, sex toys, all of that is now out. Trampolines, under any circumstances,
(31:35):
are out, which I think is bananas because there's definitely times and calls for it. I do also
understand and respect the fact that under the old funding before the NDIS, there used to be a thing
(31:55):
called helping children with autism. And under that, like, everybody bought a trampoline. Everyone's
OT recommended a trampoline. Everyone bought a trampoline. And then what happened is the
government went, oh, we didn't mean for everyone to just get a free trampoline. And so that's part of
kind of what then happened under NDIS. It was always very difficult to get a trampoline,
(32:21):
but it was possible. And now it's just on the no, not under any circumstances, we're not having
trampolines. Then smartwatches. Smartwatches is on the out list. Now I have a problem with this.
Oh, there's lots of problems with that.
Because this decreases independence. If someone, it had a support worker who could set up a
(32:48):
participant's alarms and things like that, a participant could then do things like take
their medication at the set time. They then wouldn't need a support worker to remind them,
to tell them. It also does things about, you know, GPS, about where the participant is,
(33:12):
if they've fallen because they're out by themselves. You know, there's lots of reasons why actually
a smartwatch increases independence and decreases the need for support workers. And the numbers
just don't add up to exclude smartwatches under all circumstances. And I think this is part of
(33:37):
the problem of this no list, because having a black and white no list means that there's no room
for these, for different people with different disability just to come in and say,
but this is why it's reasonable and necessary for me and my disability to be able to live
(34:03):
more independently and decrease the amount of support worker time that I need.
One of the interesting ones of the carve outs that may be considered an NDIS support for
certain participants though, is therapeutic massage that is directly related to a participant's
support needs, which could be beneficial for or quite useful for some participants out there that
(34:26):
have needs that get solved by therapeutic massage and might need to consider whether or not asking
the NDIS for that in this circumstances would be appropriate for you. Although I'm sure they'll
ask for quite a fair bit of evidence on that.
Yep, but you can't have general massage. General massage is on the list as no.
(34:48):
But a carve out is therapeutic massage. So there's some wording for you. Also neurofeedback
is absolutely not.
And gaming therapy, which I was a bit disappointed is on a list.
Yeah, because I've seen this quite a bit as a way to build up social skills and get kids
(35:15):
talking to a speech therapist or stuff like that.
So.
Or just your general DND games that are supporting participants to engage in relationships.
Another big one to note in travel related space, which also kind of affects quite a lot of
(35:35):
STA providers and rest by sort of industry that's being created.
So travel related carve outs are cruises, holiday packages, holiday accommodation,
including overseas travel, airfares, passports, visas, meals and activities.
Yeah.
(35:55):
So that is short of having a old style centre with a hotel-esque room that is
very purpose built for people to go to for a respite centre.
Don't they're crushing innovation.
(36:18):
Like this space has gone ballistic in some of the amazing providers out there doing some
really unique things, putting a lot of thought into what they're delivering to their participants
in respite rather than it just being four walls and a bed.
(36:40):
Yeah, I did note that respite and short term accommodation are not in one of the 36 sections
of what is in.
So I am quite concerned about this and I know that there has been some talk with STA providers
(37:01):
as well about, you know, it must be about specifically going after the goals in a person's
plan.
It must be planned out so that they are working towards those goals while they are in respite,
that it can't go across state lines anymore because if you go across state lines, that's
(37:25):
travel and travelling somewhere makes it a holiday.
I've heard of a few different bits and pieces from people about what makes it constitute
a holiday as opposed to respite.
And so far, to be clear to the audience listening, no one has actually come out and said very
(37:54):
clearly this is what's in, this is what's out to do with respite.
So for the minute, continue as you are or not, that's up to you.
We are not saying one way or the other.
We are just presenting the information that we have been able to find in front of us.
(38:14):
Oh yeah, very big shake up in the space there.
Oh yeah.
Next, let's have a look.
Treatment for eating disorders, which I think is interesting.
Now, I guess it depends on what you classify as treatment, right?
Yeah.
Because if, you know, having a psychologist and a speech pathologist, you know, work with
(38:40):
you on one on swallowing in particular and around food things, and then a psychologist
to support you with food, is that treatment or is that just like supporting you around it?
And to me, an eating disorder is a mental, you know, psychosocial disability,
(39:07):
as much as I hate those words, which people are allowed to get on the NDIS with.
So how can you then exclude eating disorder support?
Like, what are they talking about, Sam?
Well, I think they've just like, along with quite a lot of this, have just made it a lot
more confusing in how people use and access their supports.
(39:33):
Yeah.
I, yeah, I don't know if you look, because if you read into these, you could have a conversation
one way or another that then creates a whole new kind of question or consideration.
And it just more and more begs the question, what was the thinking process in developing
this list?
(39:54):
And more to the point, what co-design was done when developing this list?
Right.
Yes.
And if any.
Absolutely.
Yes. So I wanted to highlight something under transport is public transport fares are on
the outlist.
(40:15):
So Sam, once upon a time, in a far off time, in a far off land, at the beginning of the
NDIS rollout, the NDIS decided to have travel largely be self-managed, which meant that
money went into people's accounts.
(40:37):
Now, the reason for that was because under the old scheme, people got a travel allowance
and an NDIS that was going to disappear.
And then there was no travel allowance coming from any department.
So then it had to come under NDIS.
And at first, they said you could spend this on topping up your public transport card,
(41:05):
which is my key or a go-cart in Brisbane or your whatever they've got in Sydney.
So, but this now says absolutely not under any circumstances are you to use NDIS funding
to pay for public transport fares.
Now, I have a concern about this because the NDIS bang on constantly, constantly about
(41:36):
how people with disabilities should be catching public transport and shouldn't be using
their supports to drive them here and there.
Well, then allow for that.
Allow for them to catch public transport.
Clearly, that's the cheaper option.
Why would you not do that?
(41:57):
And then lastly, I wanted to touch on the fact that then they say things that are illegal
are also you're not allowed to spend your NDIS money on things like buying firearms
and weapons and illegal drugs.
So, mind you, if they didn't say it, there could be an argument that it would be allowed.
(42:21):
Is it disability specific illegal drugs that you're taking?
Do you have a script for that?
Well, there are.
Anyway, let's move out of this realm of conversation.
The last kind of interesting one to kind of note from my perspective is dating
relationships services, including VR, which I'm assuming is virtual reality, matchmakers
(42:46):
and apps.
Oh, yes.
So, that was just sort of an interesting one.
Yeah, because you now can't pay for the premium part of like Grinder or Tinder
or whatever you use out of your NDIS funding.
I don't know if Grinder or Tinder really should be the thing, but it makes me
(43:09):
more concerned around some of the dating and relationship services for people with a
disability that have come out.
On the market, there are some really awesome support providers that have come out in this
space and really are doing some positive work in supporting people with a disability to
engage in healthy relationships.
(43:30):
So, I'm not sure if they are on the target list here or if there's a bit of an
exclusion around it because it kind of reads like they are.
Yeah, I think it's scary because I think there needs to be room for that positive work of
going, this is how to build positive relationships.
(43:52):
And, you know, this is red flags when relationships potentially aren't working or,
you know, whatever.
And, you know, like, fuck man, it's difficult because this whole, the whole list, the two
lists are, I think, ridiculous, often contradictory and very difficult to read and totally
(44:20):
understand.
So, I guess we'll have fun with that as we go along.
Yeah, and there are quite a few mainstream sort of areas that are being targeted in
specifically, which also goes back to our conversation earlier about that if the NDIS,
that a lot of mainstream public services have gone, the NDIS will deal with this issue.
(44:46):
And now, probably rightfully, sorry, the NDIS is pushing back, but the whole work around
in the timeline was a five-year period to allow the states and the governments to work
all of this out, not like the six-month period that we're experiencing here, which means,
and the states are still pushing back on certain things, like, they're not entirely happy
(45:08):
about everything.
And no one still knows what the government or the states are accepting in terms of the
response and responding to in terms of the NDIS review.
Although you can read between the lines when you look at the app.
Yeah, it's very cloak and daggers, isn't it?
Very much so.
So, next on the agenda is the summary of advice from the NDIS provider and worker registration
(45:37):
task force.
So, this was a task force that Bill Shorten asked to go separately and have a look at
the proposed models for regulation and for registration for providers.
So, this was a piece of work that was done following the NDIS review, which one of the
(46:02):
chairs, Natalie Wade, and the committee went through and essentially looked at what the
NDIS review proposed and what the minister and the rest of the agency and the commission
were looking at in terms of this new registration model.
So, it's come up with advice or 21 different recommendations.
(46:23):
And the first sort of key thing is that not all providers as defined in the NDIS Act should
be registered.
But they are, however, indirectly registering all providers because participants will need
to get registered as well.
So, unregistered providers who provide supports to participants who are registered as having
(46:47):
self-directed supports or also goods purchased off the shelf from mainstream providers in
this instance, the invoice will be enough to evidence from the participant when they
make that claim.
So, another key sort of takeaway is the task force adopts the recommendations 10.3 of the
(47:08):
NDIS review, that the NDIA should transition to fully electronic payments to improve the
visibility of payments, which is kind of an interesting one in the plan manager space.
So, that sort of brings back that e-card payment.
But also, one of the interesting things with the NDIS Act and the NDIS support list is
(47:33):
it doesn't rule out plan management.
It's keeping it there, but very confusing.
So, the new system for registration is a graduated and risk proportionate registration.
Four tiers of registration.
(47:55):
Those tiers are...
Advanced registration, providers who offer high-risk supports and services in high-risk
settings.
This includes daily living supports in closed settings like group homes.
The next tier down is general registration, providers who offer medium-risk supports like
(48:24):
high-intensity daily personal activities, supports that need extra skills and training
like complex bowel care or injections, supports where there is a lot of one-on-one contact
with people with disability.
(48:45):
So, that's the general registration.
So, the general registration is where the government sees most providers sitting, and
that is that one tier down from the advanced registration.
Because if you provide one-on-one support contact, that is the general registration
(49:09):
category.
Then there is self-directed support registration.
So, participants, their guardian or legal representative, who contract all of their
supports directly.
This includes through direct employment, services for one and independent contractors.
(49:31):
So, if I wanted the supports for my children to be unregistered providers who I self-direct,
then I as the participant nominee would have to register as a self-directed support registration,
(49:55):
and then the support workers come under me and my registration.
So, I don't see a scenario in which I personally would do this, because for one thing this
sounds like a lot of work, and I need to earn money at some point.
(50:20):
And so, it just doesn't sound right for me, but that's fine.
It is for some people.
It is one of the sort of key points that I've kind of highlighted from the advice or the
recommend.
So, the task, which is recommendation six, and the recommendation is that mechanisms
(50:42):
be put in place to support arrangements for self-directed support.
A process should be developed whereby the participant will register themselves for self-directed
support, and thereby all the supports provided would become registered automatically, as
we've discussed.
So, the process of registration of self-directed support should be co-designed with people
(51:03):
with a disability, so work through in that co-design post.
It would sit within a new category for registration.
The category would also be subject to review and ordering, consistent with the arrangement
for other service providers, except for the evaluation of practice standards, which do
not apply to self-directed supports.
This approach needs to be co-designed with people.
(51:26):
So, they're very heavily supporting co-design in this instance, but they're also very much
not restricting anyone that has the ability to and wants to self-manage to be able to
still do that, essentially.
But it does sort of then start to put some more control mechanisms on, and also more
(51:47):
processes in place when someone goes, I want to be self-managed, because in the current
state it's based on a risk sort of thing from an agency, and they just generally sort of
go yes or no based on what they see in front of them, and it's a pretty easy process.
This does seem like it's going to become a bit more red tape heavy for participants that
(52:09):
want to do self-managed supports, but I kind of feel like anyone that is already self-managing
and wants to maintain it is doing quite a robust job of managing their funding as it
stands, so I wouldn't be worried for a lot of people wanting to continue with self-management.
(52:30):
Just anyone that wants to be self-managed because they want to be self-managed but don't
actually want to necessarily do anything within the guidelines.
I think it's cracking down on people that use self-managed to kind of exploit gaps and
loopholes.
A couple of other sort of key takeaways from the task force is group homes should be subject
(52:53):
to unannounced visits from the NDIS Commission, so they are putting quite a lot of, or all
of this process is putting quite a lot more onus and power into the Commission to start
acting with a little bit more teeth, so it would be very interesting to see how the Commission
and the rest of the Commission follow through with all of these, also possibly scary in
(53:15):
a couple of overzealous instances, I'm sure, but we'll see how it all plays out, I guess.
So the Commission should have statutory right to enter a premise.
All providers in SIL and home and living support should be seen as requiring registration as
a matter of urgency within 12 months.
(53:35):
This should be implemented immediately and noting the significance of risk through some
participants of violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation within these service areas.
Registration of SIL and home and living support should be done under the existing registration
framework and you should not wait for new arrangements to be developed.
(53:58):
In future registration, SIL, home and living will be under the advanced registration that
was already discussed with.
And in terms of provider obligations for registration, a lot more onus is going to be focused on
the code of conduct, worker screening, complaints, incident reporting, practice standards, having
(54:21):
regular check-ins with the NDIS Commission, which is something new, and performance measurements
as well.
So they're quite an interesting area to be looking at as well and I'm sure we'll get
a bit more of a deep dive into them in the coming episodes.
Yeah.
There's also a worker registration scheme which has been proposed.
(54:42):
So that's individually registering individual workers as well.
So there's going to be requirements for professional developments for support workers.
So this also implies to independent workers with a small provider, a big company provider
and also start setting out some minimum training guidelines as well to be applied to the disability
(55:04):
sector.
So it will be a simple and enabled through an online portal for workers to register and
also be transparent and...
Simple, Sam?
I don't believe it.
I don't think the NDIS know how to do a simple process of anything.
Well, recommendations in general are recommendations.
(55:25):
Doesn't mean... should we look at pace?
Yep.
But yeah, so there's lots happening within the worker space but I think the biggest takeaway
from that is requirements for professional development which I think I've been hammering
on about for ages.
I can't remember.
I've been talking about this for as long as I've been in the sector.
But that's sort of a bit of a summary of some of the key sort of recommendations are.
(55:50):
There are 21 of them.
They also note that we don't necessarily have any or haven't seen clearly the stance from
the government or the minister from this just yet.
But since we're waiting for the NDIS review, I'm not too sure...
I won't be holding my breath.
Yeah.
And once again, we're just two people who just talk about the NDIS day in, day out.
(56:15):
We love the NDIS and work within it but we are not people...
We're not lawyers.
We are not lawyers or any sort of...we are not providing advice to anyone for anything.
This is informational purposes only.
So lastly, Sam, I wanted to talk about the transition of the AAT or the Administrative
(56:47):
Appeals Tribunal to a new body called the Administrative Review Tribunal or the new
tribunal.
Now, by and large, for people who are going to the new ART from the 14th of October 2024,
(57:11):
this will change nothing.
You will notice nothing.
Don't stress.
But the biggest change that we are seeing over AAT to ART is that now the people who
sit and listen over it, who are called a member, a bit like a judge, but it's called a member
(57:37):
when it comes to ART, they now have to have some sort of qualification.
Whereas before they could be any bozo who applied to the position.
So I think this is a step in the right direction.
I don't know.
(57:59):
I guess.
So for right this very second, if you are listening to this before the 14th of October
2024 and you currently have a case at AAT, don't stress.
Your case will just switch over to ART.
(58:19):
Nothing will change.
You will still go along the same you ever had.
It is like a rebrand, essentially.
And the idea was to help get through the backlog that's at AAT.
So they're going also hopefully, I guess we're not holding our breath again, but they're
(58:43):
going to also be extending the number of members that they're allowed to hire at any one given
time so that hopefully people get through the process faster.
Good things hopefully.
Hopefully.
Or maybe just a speedier process.
Although speed may not necessarily be good.
(59:03):
Well, no, but since currently the process often takes people two or three years, a speedier
process I think would speedier would be preferable.
So I just wanted to highlight that because I think it is getting a little lost in everything
(59:25):
else that has just come out because it is a lot.
And that's why this episode is long, why it's taken us two episodes to get through all the
recent news.
So people strap yourself in because I don't know it's getting any easier.
No.
It's, yeah, easy is not a word I would use in this current context.
(59:49):
I'm just kind of grateful for being able to get out into the middle of Bunpuck nowhere
over the weekend and before I dip my toes back into all of this and get swallowed up
very quickly.
I hope it was fun for you because now you're stuffed.
Look, I think I was still stuffed beforehand.
It was just nice to have a weekend, a week, a couple of days where I could pretend it
(01:00:12):
was, it was non-existent.
But stories for another days.
Yes.
All right.
Well, thank you for following along with us, for listening to us and for your comments
of how much you love the podcast.
We definitely enjoy hearing that because sometimes we wonder if anyone's still listening to our
(01:00:39):
ramblings.
So feel free to hit us up at any time and let us know.
If you love the podcast, if you don't love the podcast, you don't have to tell us, it's
free.
It's on the internet.
You can just keep moving along if you don't like it.
(01:00:59):
Before we wrap up, Hannah, just want to quickly, you've had a bit of a change in your world.
Ah, the rumours are true.
Yes.
After six years of being a support coordinator, I have hung up that hat.
I don't know.
Is that what we do in support coordination?
It's good for sun protection.
(01:01:24):
And I've decided to do something a little different, a little sideways.
Tell our listeners more.
So it's called Plan Decoders.
And what we do is we come out to you in a two hour session and we help you understand
the plan and decode it a bit because often it looks like it's written in code and it's
(01:01:48):
confusing as all fuck.
And we make it less confusing.
Now you're not, it's sorry, it's not support coordination or plan management, is it?
No, but it can complement what support coordinators are doing.
So if you don't have a support coordinator at all, this service is perfect for you because
(01:02:12):
we can start from the very beginning, work through your plan, explain it all and the
ins and outs.
If you do have a support coordinator, we can also support you because what we found is
some support coordinators have called us and of course support coordination funding is
getting smaller and smaller.
(01:02:33):
And so what we've been able to do is they say, hey, can you go out and do the capacity
building component while I sit here and put the services in place because we charge under
a different line item.
Then we're also complementing what plan managers are doing because plan managers aren't funded
to go out to a person face to face, which is what a lot of people need and go through
(01:03:00):
exactly what is happening in their plan.
So we go out face to face if people are in South East Queensland and then we also have
the option for telehealth if people would prefer telehealth, but also telehealth to
the rest of Australia.
And telehealth is also good because you will see our shining happy faces on a screen and
(01:03:26):
also we can still show you through your plan because there's screen sharing and stuff
like that.
So it still works very well.
And yeah, that's the very basics to start off with, but stay tuned because we will have
(01:03:46):
a whole episode explaining all about this.
Exciting.
And if people want to go suss out a little bit more.
If people want to suss out more, the best way to find out more information is to go
to plannedecoders.com.au and that will be in the show notes.
(01:04:08):
And also I've got the same phone number.
If you've ever had my phone number, I have the same phone number and you will also find
that on the website and in the show notes.
Awesome.
Well, has and happy days.
Yeah.
Somewhat happy days.
It's a day.
Thanks Sam.
Thanks Anna.
Bye.
Thank you for listening.
(01:04:32):
Please share with people you know.
Until next time, as the Green Brothers say, don't forget to be awesome.
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(00:05):
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(01:21):
episode. You're listening to What in the NDIS The News, a podcast where I, Hannah Redford,
and my friend, Sam Rosenbaum, discuss all the hot topics out of the NDIS.
Hi, Sam. How are you going? Hey, yeah, really good, Hannah, yourself? Yeah, good. You had a busy
(01:46):
weekend. I had a wonderful weekend. I don't know if busy would be the words I used, but oh well,
look, we're taking me. It was relaxing. I got away. I had some downtime, but I don't know if
that was the best time in courtesy of the government release having a push on the
amendments and the new changes coming out. So it's a bit of a hit and miss, I guess,
(02:06):
in that respect, but good. Yeah. So the day that we're recording is Monday the 26th of August,
2024, just in case they come up with something tomorrow and you're like, why didn't they include
this or that? Because we're recording today and we can only do so much in a recording.
(02:31):
Look, and I'm sure we've missed things on our list, but it has been a bit of a
rampant roller coaster over the last short wee while. Yes. So without further ado, let's get into it.
Cool. So the first thing I wanted to talk about is the government's response to the Disability
(02:53):
Royal Commission, Sam. Or more lack of a response, but very much so. Their response nonetheless.
I have this term where no responses are still a response when I get challenged on a few things
or when I ask a question and people go silent. And that definitely is the vibes of all of this
(03:20):
as well. Oh yes. Big, big vibes. So the first thing to understand is that the government spent
over $500 million on this commission into abuse and neglect of people with disabilities.
(03:40):
The commission had 12 volumes and more than 5,000 pages in the report. They had 222 recommendations
in those 5,000 pages. And Sam, how many do you think the federal government agreed to in full of
(04:03):
222? Well, the optimists inside me would like to say that I would think all of them,
in principle at least, but the insider of me knows the reality is a starking and absolutely abysmal
state of affairs. So in the government's response, they make this all nice and shiny by saying,
(04:29):
accepts or accepts in principle, 130 recommendations. And you think, whoa, that's great.
Except with the little caveat there of how they worded it on accepts or accepts in principle,
which are two different things. So of the actually the government's accepts
rather recommendations, how many were there Hannah? 13. 13. It's absolute. Yeah. Outrageous.
(04:55):
Then we've also got 117 that they're accepting in principle, which means they essentially agree
with that who knows what's going to happen with that and is considering a further 36 of the
recommendation and notes six of the recommendations. Hold on. There's another 42, if my maths is
(05:16):
correct, that they've gone probably not or like a yeah, nah type scenario. They're kind of keeping
in scope that they have the primary or shared responsibility for the recommendations of 172 of
the recommendations. So they've gone through and gone, these are ours, where this is what we'll
(05:40):
tackle. We haven't had time to sort of go through the list line by one, but
there are definitely are the works being done in the background. I am sure to get that through to
us. Yeah. So I wanted to highlight one of the things. There's a recommendation to establish
a new Disability Rights Act and a standalone disability commission to enforce it. And Minister
(06:06):
Amanda Rishworth, who is the social services minister, said that it's still under consideration.
Now, this pisses me off because this seems to me to be a no brainer and an easy win that the
(06:27):
government could have because they could put a Disability Rights Act in and everyone would accept
it. And like the fact that they're saying that they don't want to is extraordinary to me.
Well, if you look at parliament in the recent months, they've managed to pull together some
(06:53):
very big legislation and push it through very quickly. We look at what's happened with the
union recently down in Melbourne and then also the NDIS Act itself. This sort of has happened within
the last six months, all of it. They pulled together the stuff about the unions very quickly
together. So they've proved themselves capable of getting legislation together and passed. So
(07:23):
anything short of just getting it done is really twiddling their thumbs or sweeping it under the
mat. Yeah, yeah. It's beyond my comprehension and I'm pretty frustrated with them. Oh, so let's go
talking about the latest legislation that went through parliament and just went through last
(07:52):
week. Let's have a talk about some of the changes to that legislation. So what's the first one
you want to tackle, Sam? So yeah, so just in case anyone's not fully aware of, on the 22nd of August
of this year, the NDIS Scheme Amendment, getting the NDIS Back on Track Number 1 Bill was passed
(08:18):
by parliament. So that effectively brings in a whole heap of new changes to both the NDIS Act,
different things that are happening with service provision, things that are impacting a lot of
people in a lot of different ways. So one of those first ones that is changing is Section 24 of the
(08:38):
NDIS Act, which is disability requirements. It's had been updated to clarify that a person should
only access supports or access the NDIS if they require support, which are NDIS supports. So that
which is NDIS supports is part of another thing that's changed to the legislation, which is Section
(09:00):
10, which covers NDIS supports. There's essentially now a new list together that says what is and is
not a NDIS support. And we're definitely going to get into that next sort of big... And also, just to
let you all know that we are two doofuses just talking on a podcast. And while we research this
(09:23):
and we have the best of intentions, we are not lawyers. We are not saying we know exactly what's
happening. This is just information for you to have a little bit of more information. We are not
saying that we are experts in any sort of way or form. We are just presenting you information that
(09:47):
the Minister Shorten put out himself. So what's next, Sam? Where are we going next?
Section 34, Supports for Impairment. So this also goes into that the NDIS will only fund your NDIS
support related to the impairment you meet access for. So this is a big one that has caused quite a
(10:13):
lot of confusion with a lot of participants. And I know that as a support coordinator, you have
experienced the troubles that participants have understanding where they might have, let's say,
a disability... An autism diagnosis, and that's why they're on the NDIS. But they might have some
other problems that they're needing support for. And the guidelines of having... That you're only
(10:35):
allowed to have your supports for supports can be very confusing as well. It's been a bit of a mess.
Yeah. Look, and beyond that, sometimes I've had participants with a list of 10 or 20 diagnoses
that they put forward when they met access. And then the NDIS turns around and says, oh, no,
(10:58):
we won't fund that because that's not one of the diagnoses or impairments that you met access for.
And you go, what? What do you mean? And the issue has been that the NDIS, when you've met access,
they've decided which ones actually meet access and they've thrown out the other ones, but they
don't tell you. And so part of this law is that now what they're going to do is it will be written
(11:25):
on your plan what impairments, that's the word they're going with, which, you know, is up to
for debate about why we've used impairments, but that's the word they're using. So that's the word
we're going to use for this minute. So they're going to have it written on your plan so that
(11:50):
you know exactly which ones you met access for and thus which ones they will fund supports for.
So that's interesting. And then it seems to be saying that support providers would then need to
know that because they're not allowed to provide supports that are not related to the impairments
(12:18):
you met access for. And this is a huge, then a concern because by and large participants
don't slash shouldn't share their plan with a provider. So how do providers find out
exactly what impairments are written into the plan and what aren't?
(12:38):
One thing I would like to see from a provider's perspective, because there's always been this
push from providers to try that would prefer to see the plans, they can get the goals, they can
get the details. They don't need the budget, but they also need a mechanism to easily
confirm that budget's available and that they're not going to end up over servicing anyone.
(13:03):
So there always needs to be a secondary provider plan that you can give out to providers to make
all of this thing. But then it still goes down to the debate of why should I have to give someone
my list of impairments if I don't want them to know everything about me?
Flash?
Because there are a lot of providers and a lot of people, and this was heavily emphasized
(13:30):
in the Royal Commission. So yeah, there's still a lot of stigma and stereotyping around disabilities.
And when someone has to say what their disability is, people automatically assume certain things.
And no provider can say that they fully don't kind of make assumptions when they hear certain
things in the long run.
(13:51):
Oh, I completely agree. And I think to me, this is a concern, but I guess we've got to see how it
plays out.
Hmm, 100%. As I said from the beginning of all of this, when the NDL's review came out,
that the biggest risk for this is implementation. But I've been currently biting my words.
(14:16):
But I think this is fucked. I'll just say that up front. I think this is fucked. And then we can
see how it goes from the position of this is fucked and the bar is on the floor apparently.
So there we go.
Well, look, if Bill Shawn wants to save his ass and come bring it back, he's got a lot of work to
(14:36):
do because he's broken trust of a lot of people. And as he said at the start of all this, he needs
the trust of the community to bring all of this along. And he's doing a very good job of
dissociating a lot of the community.
The next sort of big key one is section 44, which is plan management decision. And this is
(14:59):
something very concerning in a couple of aspects. And also, I need a lot more clarity, I still think.
So the NDIS can consider changing your plan management type in certain circumstances. So
that means they can change you from self-management to plan management or from plan management to
agency management on a couple of conditions. If they think that the participant, the participant's
(15:26):
nominee, plan manager or representative are unlikely to spend NDIS funds properly relating
to NDIS supports and in line with your plan. So that comes back to a lot of things that we've
already discussed around and we've got a bit more to go into, especially around NDIS supports.
And then some of that stuff around the impairments and the requirement, disability requirements.
(15:49):
Yeah. Well, and to a point, they can already do this. This is already a thing that they,
if they are concerned about what you are doing, they can change your plan, how your plan is
managed. So this isn't totally out of nowhere, but it is, I think, more concerning with when
(16:12):
it's in conjunction with the work, everyone in the workforce now having to be registered.
So yeah, I don't know. I don't know, Sam. I don't know what's going on.
Yeah. So, and the registration space as well is something that is coming up. We'll get into
(16:32):
that after we finish going through this part. There's a couple more to go through section 33.
So total funding amounts, component amounts and funding period. So plans approved after the law
comes into effect will have total funding amounts, funding component amounts and funding periods.
This classifies the amount of funds available in the plan and how long the funds need to last.
(16:57):
So some of this is reflective of what we're seeing in PACE with quarterly spends,
budgets, but also then kind of means that there's not the buckets that we're kind of used to in the
new framework plans, but there are some sort of things. So now if you've still got a current plan,
(17:18):
you'll still be able to use your funding amounts as they are standing in order to affect new plans.
There are a bit more about it. So if you are concerned, definitely jump in and speak to your
plan manager, support coordinator, or get in touch with the agency to specifically, in the LAC,
to specifically see how it might affect your plan within your circumstances.
(17:39):
Another one for note that has been quite a fair bit of talk about in the media
and on our fellow podcasts, which is section 30 information gathering for deciding whether to
revoke a participant status. So that's where the agency can specifically request information or
require you to do certain things like undergo an assessment if they're considering to revoke your
(18:03):
status as a participant. If the participant doesn't comply with the request within a reasonable
timeframe, the NDIS may revoke your access to the NDIS based on this. However, more time can be
allowed if that it's reasonable. So if there's issues with getting certain documentation or
finding that specific person to write the report, you can definitely speak to the agency, but you
(18:25):
need to be upfront with them and go, this is the trouble, this is how long it's going to take.
They haven't actually specified the timeframe, I don't think, but I can't remember.
And more of that will be in the legislative instruments, which are the rules of the
legislation that they have to follow that will give us more clarity around that.
(18:49):
So a big one for providers to be aware of is section 45A, which is claims and payment
framework. So introduction of legislation claims and payment frameworks, the NDIS to provide
clarity on how claims should be made. This impacts all participants and providers from the
(19:10):
commencement and will later be all claims made within two years of the providing support.
So this will mean that it comes into effect as soon as the law comes in. So then the next,
I can't remember what the date would be, but it was 28 days from last Thursday.
Just a note for all providers, for the first 12 months, the NDIA will honour all claims made
(19:38):
for supports provided before the law came into effect. So if you've got sort of payments or
supports that might not have necessarily fit some of the new NDIS support lists, they'll still pay
out for those that you will need to look and review at your services in terms of the claims.
The other sort of key one is supports need assessment. So under the planning framework,
(20:03):
participants will undergo a needs assessment which records their whole of person disability
support needs. The NDIS will fund needs which arise from the impairment in relation to which
the participant meets the disability requirements and or the early investment requirements.
This will impact participants who have transitioned to new framework plans.
(20:26):
There's no impact until the support needs assessment process is created. So there's still
a bit of co-design work that needs to happen there. And the overall implementation timing
is still yet to be confirmed based on the whole co-design. Hi JD. All of them are going off.
(20:49):
So Sam, I'm concerned about the support needs assessment. I think this looks dodgy to me.
We did talk about this last episode. So we won't go much into it this time.
(21:11):
Listen to the last episode if you haven't already. But short summary, it smells like
an independent assessment. So it's really concerning. Yeah. But the sort of part of
the changes that we haven't lightly touched on is section 10 which is the NDIS support. So this
introduces a definition of NDIS supports which are supports that can be funded by the NDIS
(21:37):
and declared by the NDIS rules to be NDIS supports. A substitution rule will enable
participants to request to substitute a support that is not an NDIS support in individual
circumstances so they can claim and use that support. Question being though, is of this 0.05%
(22:02):
of people that require or utilise sex work in their plans currently, would they be able to apply
for a substitute support in this instance? Look, I think that is it though. So the support
(22:23):
list, there are 36 categories of NDIS supports that are on the in list or the nice list. And
there's a naughty list if you are of the Christmas persuasion or there's an in list and an out list.
(22:44):
However you look at it, there's 36 on the in list which to me is problematic for starters because
36, that's a lot, Sam. Not that I don't think we need all 36, we like absolutely do and probably
(23:06):
actually more. My concern is the fact that how in holy heck does anyone start to wrap their head
around 36 different support categories? And how are we all meant to get our heads around all of this?
(23:30):
I would just like to say that the Summer Foundation prevents reasonable and necessary supports with
Dr George. Their episode on this alone went for over an hour. I'm not quite sure it caps you
everything. Yeah, so we're going to try and go as fast as we can but just to know that there are
(23:54):
36, we're not going to go through all 36 that are on the in list and then there's 15 on the out list
or the naughty list. Also to explain that there are, there's a thing, there's things called carve
outs. So on the in list, carve outs are things that are not NDIS supports and on the out list or on
(24:22):
the naughty list, a carve out is something that may be then available to you. So it's the words
that they are using themselves, they're contradicting themselves all over the lists, making these lists
even harder to understand. So what we wanted to do for now is highlight a couple of things on the
(24:45):
out list because we felt they were really important for people to understand a couple of things that
we noted. Now there are heaps more, like we said there's 15 different categories on the no list or
on the out list or on the naughty list, whatever you want to call it. The list of supports that are
(25:08):
not NDIS supports. So one of the first one I wanted to bring up with you Sam was about electricity
generators. Now on that episode of that podcast you pointed out, one of the guests explains that
this is because they, the NDIS deem that electricity generators are there to keep people alive and
(25:38):
breathing typically and thus it is medical not disability. So the medical system is responsible
for these backup generators. My issue is okay fine, Medicare or the medical system is responsible now
(25:58):
for these, organising these electricity generators, but who in that system is responsible for that?
That is my concern with a lot of the things on this list that sure you can say this is medical,
that's medical, the next thing is medical, but who in that system is then turning around and
(26:20):
organising you an electricity backup generator? Who is then turning around and organising
your other bits and pieces? Like I haven't met these people. You've sort of got to the point or
the issue at hand with all of this, including the new Act and Amendment and the government's sort of
(26:46):
approach and how they've gone about this all, which is to, they are yet to respond to the NDIS review
in the first place and as part of all of that and what they're, the move to foundational supports,
(27:09):
specialist foundational and general foundational supports, as well as that the Navigator Program
as well, which is meant to be able to support people that would not be eligible to NDIS to get
those supports. All of this was meant to happen over a five year timeframe, not in six months.
(27:32):
Yeah, yeah and well even if you had a navigator, right, if you are on the NDIS but also just
happen to need a backup generator that is then, like the fact that then these navigators have to
become experts in 20 different systems, not just the NDIS now, because then they have to be an
(28:00):
expert in, well, oh no, that funding comes from over here. No, that funding comes from over here.
Like, what the fuck kind of superhuman are they expecting to be these navigators if it all comes
back down to navigators? Well, it's in one of the last public forums with Bill Shorten and Bruce
(28:25):
Bonahady, the co-chair, there was a statement made that support coordinators won't be ruled out.
Support coordinators are staying, navigators aren't going to replace them, navigators are
primarily there for people that don't have access to the NDIS and therefore don't have access to a
support coordinator is the statement that was made. However, everything kind of contradicts
(28:48):
everything in this current world and without a clear outline or response from the government on
it, it's very hard to sort of say which way is north sometimes. But, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The point on the electricity generators is that, yes, you're fundamentally right, the health system
(29:10):
is not set up or designed to be able to fund generators, which means generally speaking,
they're going to push it to that, they're going to push people to nursing homes where they have
those kind of facilities and then that kind of defeats the purpose because the whole point is
to keep people out of aged care facilities for that. So, it is a very lovely conundrum of a
situation when you sort of think about it in those sort of higher respect needs where there's medical
(29:34):
equipment that needs to be run 24-7 and we've had a couple of incidents very recently that have
been hitting the media and that's outrageous, like it's sad that those people had to go through that
because they couldn't get a generator. Yeah. And the governments are just playing handball
with responsibility and yet we're meant to have this system that empowers people to live their
(29:57):
best life. But if the power goes down because your best life is living in a rural area and you can't
get access to the generators or life-saving equipment that you need, then there's a problem
there. Yeah, because then your life stops and then you're not living your best life because there
(30:19):
isn't one. Forcing a country person to have to come into the city is like forcing us to go live,
like, well, I'll probably be okay for a bit of a while but I'm sure I'll throw many hissy fits,
but forcing city folk to go out into country, like, stupid. I still throw hissy fits and I live in
Brisbane because the freaking cafes are never open. Yeah, but you're from that. Where do your cafes open?
(30:46):
They need to be open in the afternoon, people. Yeah, well, my business partner Jason Winge is
about things closing too early as well. Yes. And anyone not from Victoria, you won't understand,
24-hour came up shopping and running around buying nerf guns at 3am and shooting people in the store.
But also, like, just a cafe open at three o'clock in the afternoon isn't that hard. And I don't
(31:11):
understand it, Sam, and I don't even live in a rural area and it makes me want to cry. Anyway,
back to the subject at hand. Okay, so one of the other things that are on the out list that you've
already pointed out was sex work, sex toys, all of that is now out. Trampolines, under any circumstances,
(31:35):
are out, which I think is bananas because there's definitely times and calls for it. I do also
understand and respect the fact that under the old funding before the NDIS, there used to be a thing
(31:55):
called helping children with autism. And under that, like, everybody bought a trampoline. Everyone's
OT recommended a trampoline. Everyone bought a trampoline. And then what happened is the
government went, oh, we didn't mean for everyone to just get a free trampoline. And so that's part of
kind of what then happened under NDIS. It was always very difficult to get a trampoline,
(32:21):
but it was possible. And now it's just on the no, not under any circumstances, we're not having
trampolines. Then smartwatches. Smartwatches is on the out list. Now I have a problem with this.
Oh, there's lots of problems with that.
Because this decreases independence. If someone, it had a support worker who could set up a
(32:48):
participant's alarms and things like that, a participant could then do things like take
their medication at the set time. They then wouldn't need a support worker to remind them,
to tell them. It also does things about, you know, GPS, about where the participant is,
(33:12):
if they've fallen because they're out by themselves. You know, there's lots of reasons why actually
a smartwatch increases independence and decreases the need for support workers. And the numbers
just don't add up to exclude smartwatches under all circumstances. And I think this is part of
(33:37):
the problem of this no list, because having a black and white no list means that there's no room
for these, for different people with different disability just to come in and say,
but this is why it's reasonable and necessary for me and my disability to be able to live
(34:03):
more independently and decrease the amount of support worker time that I need.
One of the interesting ones of the carve outs that may be considered an NDIS support for
certain participants though, is therapeutic massage that is directly related to a participant's
support needs, which could be beneficial for or quite useful for some participants out there that
(34:26):
have needs that get solved by therapeutic massage and might need to consider whether or not asking
the NDIS for that in this circumstances would be appropriate for you. Although I'm sure they'll
ask for quite a fair bit of evidence on that.
Yep, but you can't have general massage. General massage is on the list as no.
(34:48):
But a carve out is therapeutic massage. So there's some wording for you. Also neurofeedback
is absolutely not.
And gaming therapy, which I was a bit disappointed is on a list.
Yeah, because I've seen this quite a bit as a way to build up social skills and get kids
(35:15):
talking to a speech therapist or stuff like that.
So.
Or just your general DND games that are supporting participants to engage in relationships.
Another big one to note in travel related space, which also kind of affects quite a lot of
(35:35):
STA providers and rest by sort of industry that's being created.
So travel related carve outs are cruises, holiday packages, holiday accommodation,
including overseas travel, airfares, passports, visas, meals and activities.
Yeah.
(35:55):
So that is short of having a old style centre with a hotel-esque room that is
very purpose built for people to go to for a respite centre.
Don't they're crushing innovation.
(36:18):
Like this space has gone ballistic in some of the amazing providers out there doing some
really unique things, putting a lot of thought into what they're delivering to their participants
in respite rather than it just being four walls and a bed.
(36:40):
Yeah, I did note that respite and short term accommodation are not in one of the 36 sections
of what is in.
So I am quite concerned about this and I know that there has been some talk with STA providers
(37:01):
as well about, you know, it must be about specifically going after the goals in a person's
plan.
It must be planned out so that they are working towards those goals while they are in respite,
that it can't go across state lines anymore because if you go across state lines, that's
(37:25):
travel and travelling somewhere makes it a holiday.
I've heard of a few different bits and pieces from people about what makes it constitute
a holiday as opposed to respite.
And so far, to be clear to the audience listening, no one has actually come out and said very
(37:54):
clearly this is what's in, this is what's out to do with respite.
So for the minute, continue as you are or not, that's up to you.
We are not saying one way or the other.
We are just presenting the information that we have been able to find in front of us.
(38:14):
Oh yeah, very big shake up in the space there.
Oh yeah.
Next, let's have a look.
Treatment for eating disorders, which I think is interesting.
Now, I guess it depends on what you classify as treatment, right?
Yeah.
Because if, you know, having a psychologist and a speech pathologist, you know, work with
(38:40):
you on one on swallowing in particular and around food things, and then a psychologist
to support you with food, is that treatment or is that just like supporting you around it?
And to me, an eating disorder is a mental, you know, psychosocial disability,
(39:07):
as much as I hate those words, which people are allowed to get on the NDIS with.
So how can you then exclude eating disorder support?
Like, what are they talking about, Sam?
Well, I think they've just like, along with quite a lot of this, have just made it a lot
more confusing in how people use and access their supports.
(39:33):
Yeah.
I, yeah, I don't know if you look, because if you read into these, you could have a conversation
one way or another that then creates a whole new kind of question or consideration.
And it just more and more begs the question, what was the thinking process in developing
this list?
(39:54):
And more to the point, what co-design was done when developing this list?
Right.
Yes.
And if any.
Absolutely.
Yes. So I wanted to highlight something under transport is public transport fares are on
the outlist.
(40:15):
So Sam, once upon a time, in a far off time, in a far off land, at the beginning of the
NDIS rollout, the NDIS decided to have travel largely be self-managed, which meant that
money went into people's accounts.
(40:37):
Now, the reason for that was because under the old scheme, people got a travel allowance
and an NDIS that was going to disappear.
And then there was no travel allowance coming from any department.
So then it had to come under NDIS.
And at first, they said you could spend this on topping up your public transport card,
(41:05):
which is my key or a go-cart in Brisbane or your whatever they've got in Sydney.
So, but this now says absolutely not under any circumstances are you to use NDIS funding
to pay for public transport fares.
Now, I have a concern about this because the NDIS bang on constantly, constantly about
(41:36):
how people with disabilities should be catching public transport and shouldn't be using
their supports to drive them here and there.
Well, then allow for that.
Allow for them to catch public transport.
Clearly, that's the cheaper option.
Why would you not do that?
(41:57):
And then lastly, I wanted to touch on the fact that then they say things that are illegal
are also you're not allowed to spend your NDIS money on things like buying firearms
and weapons and illegal drugs.
So, mind you, if they didn't say it, there could be an argument that it would be allowed.
(42:21):
Is it disability specific illegal drugs that you're taking?
Do you have a script for that?
Well, there are.
Anyway, let's move out of this realm of conversation.
The last kind of interesting one to kind of note from my perspective is dating
relationships services, including VR, which I'm assuming is virtual reality, matchmakers
(42:46):
and apps.
Oh, yes.
So, that was just sort of an interesting one.
Yeah, because you now can't pay for the premium part of like Grinder or Tinder
or whatever you use out of your NDIS funding.
I don't know if Grinder or Tinder really should be the thing, but it makes me
(43:09):
more concerned around some of the dating and relationship services for people with a
disability that have come out.
On the market, there are some really awesome support providers that have come out in this
space and really are doing some positive work in supporting people with a disability to
engage in healthy relationships.
(43:30):
So, I'm not sure if they are on the target list here or if there's a bit of an
exclusion around it because it kind of reads like they are.
Yeah, I think it's scary because I think there needs to be room for that positive work of
going, this is how to build positive relationships.
(43:52):
And, you know, this is red flags when relationships potentially aren't working or,
you know, whatever.
And, you know, like, fuck man, it's difficult because this whole, the whole list, the two
lists are, I think, ridiculous, often contradictory and very difficult to read and totally
(44:20):
understand.
So, I guess we'll have fun with that as we go along.
Yeah, and there are quite a few mainstream sort of areas that are being targeted in
specifically, which also goes back to our conversation earlier about that if the NDIS,
that a lot of mainstream public services have gone, the NDIS will deal with this issue.
(44:46):
And now, probably rightfully, sorry, the NDIS is pushing back, but the whole work around
in the timeline was a five-year period to allow the states and the governments to work
all of this out, not like the six-month period that we're experiencing here, which means,
and the states are still pushing back on certain things, like, they're not entirely happy
(45:08):
about everything.
And no one still knows what the government or the states are accepting in terms of the
response and responding to in terms of the NDIS review.
Although you can read between the lines when you look at the app.
Yeah, it's very cloak and daggers, isn't it?
Very much so.
So, next on the agenda is the summary of advice from the NDIS provider and worker registration
(45:37):
task force.
So, this was a task force that Bill Shorten asked to go separately and have a look at
the proposed models for regulation and for registration for providers.
So, this was a piece of work that was done following the NDIS review, which one of the
(46:02):
chairs, Natalie Wade, and the committee went through and essentially looked at what the
NDIS review proposed and what the minister and the rest of the agency and the commission
were looking at in terms of this new registration model.
So, it's come up with advice or 21 different recommendations.
(46:23):
And the first sort of key thing is that not all providers as defined in the NDIS Act should
be registered.
But they are, however, indirectly registering all providers because participants will need
to get registered as well.
So, unregistered providers who provide supports to participants who are registered as having
(46:47):
self-directed supports or also goods purchased off the shelf from mainstream providers in
this instance, the invoice will be enough to evidence from the participant when they
make that claim.
So, another key sort of takeaway is the task force adopts the recommendations 10.3 of the
(47:08):
NDIS review, that the NDIA should transition to fully electronic payments to improve the
visibility of payments, which is kind of an interesting one in the plan manager space.
So, that sort of brings back that e-card payment.
But also, one of the interesting things with the NDIS Act and the NDIS support list is
(47:33):
it doesn't rule out plan management.
It's keeping it there, but very confusing.
So, the new system for registration is a graduated and risk proportionate registration.
Four tiers of registration.
(47:55):
Those tiers are...
Advanced registration, providers who offer high-risk supports and services in high-risk
settings.
This includes daily living supports in closed settings like group homes.
The next tier down is general registration, providers who offer medium-risk supports like
(48:24):
high-intensity daily personal activities, supports that need extra skills and training
like complex bowel care or injections, supports where there is a lot of one-on-one contact
with people with disability.
(48:45):
So, that's the general registration.
So, the general registration is where the government sees most providers sitting, and
that is that one tier down from the advanced registration.
Because if you provide one-on-one support contact, that is the general registration
(49:09):
category.
Then there is self-directed support registration.
So, participants, their guardian or legal representative, who contract all of their
supports directly.
This includes through direct employment, services for one and independent contractors.
(49:31):
So, if I wanted the supports for my children to be unregistered providers who I self-direct,
then I as the participant nominee would have to register as a self-directed support registration,
(49:55):
and then the support workers come under me and my registration.
So, I don't see a scenario in which I personally would do this, because for one thing this
sounds like a lot of work, and I need to earn money at some point.
(50:20):
And so, it just doesn't sound right for me, but that's fine.
It is for some people.
It is one of the sort of key points that I've kind of highlighted from the advice or the
recommend.
So, the task, which is recommendation six, and the recommendation is that mechanisms
(50:42):
be put in place to support arrangements for self-directed support.
A process should be developed whereby the participant will register themselves for self-directed
support, and thereby all the supports provided would become registered automatically, as
we've discussed.
So, the process of registration of self-directed support should be co-designed with people
(51:03):
with a disability, so work through in that co-design post.
It would sit within a new category for registration.
The category would also be subject to review and ordering, consistent with the arrangement
for other service providers, except for the evaluation of practice standards, which do
not apply to self-directed supports.
This approach needs to be co-designed with people.
(51:26):
So, they're very heavily supporting co-design in this instance, but they're also very much
not restricting anyone that has the ability to and wants to self-manage to be able to
still do that, essentially.
But it does sort of then start to put some more control mechanisms on, and also more
(51:47):
processes in place when someone goes, I want to be self-managed, because in the current
state it's based on a risk sort of thing from an agency, and they just generally sort of
go yes or no based on what they see in front of them, and it's a pretty easy process.
This does seem like it's going to become a bit more red tape heavy for participants that
(52:09):
want to do self-managed supports, but I kind of feel like anyone that is already self-managing
and wants to maintain it is doing quite a robust job of managing their funding as it
stands, so I wouldn't be worried for a lot of people wanting to continue with self-management.
(52:30):
Just anyone that wants to be self-managed because they want to be self-managed but don't
actually want to necessarily do anything within the guidelines.
I think it's cracking down on people that use self-managed to kind of exploit gaps and
loopholes.
A couple of other sort of key takeaways from the task force is group homes should be subject
(52:53):
to unannounced visits from the NDIS Commission, so they are putting quite a lot of, or all
of this process is putting quite a lot more onus and power into the Commission to start
acting with a little bit more teeth, so it would be very interesting to see how the Commission
and the rest of the Commission follow through with all of these, also possibly scary in
(53:15):
a couple of overzealous instances, I'm sure, but we'll see how it all plays out, I guess.
So the Commission should have statutory right to enter a premise.
All providers in SIL and home and living support should be seen as requiring registration as
a matter of urgency within 12 months.
(53:35):
This should be implemented immediately and noting the significance of risk through some
participants of violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation within these service areas.
Registration of SIL and home and living support should be done under the existing registration
framework and you should not wait for new arrangements to be developed.
(53:58):
In future registration, SIL, home and living will be under the advanced registration that
was already discussed with.
And in terms of provider obligations for registration, a lot more onus is going to be focused on
the code of conduct, worker screening, complaints, incident reporting, practice standards, having
(54:21):
regular check-ins with the NDIS Commission, which is something new, and performance measurements
as well.
So they're quite an interesting area to be looking at as well and I'm sure we'll get
a bit more of a deep dive into them in the coming episodes.
Yeah.
There's also a worker registration scheme which has been proposed.
(54:42):
So that's individually registering individual workers as well.
So there's going to be requirements for professional developments for support workers.
So this also implies to independent workers with a small provider, a big company provider
and also start setting out some minimum training guidelines as well to be applied to the disability
(55:04):
sector.
So it will be a simple and enabled through an online portal for workers to register and
also be transparent and...
Simple, Sam?
I don't believe it.
I don't think the NDIS know how to do a simple process of anything.
Well, recommendations in general are recommendations.
(55:25):
Doesn't mean... should we look at pace?
Yep.
But yeah, so there's lots happening within the worker space but I think the biggest takeaway
from that is requirements for professional development which I think I've been hammering
on about for ages.
I can't remember.
I've been talking about this for as long as I've been in the sector.
But that's sort of a bit of a summary of some of the key sort of recommendations are.
(55:50):
There are 21 of them.
They also note that we don't necessarily have any or haven't seen clearly the stance from
the government or the minister from this just yet.
But since we're waiting for the NDIS review, I'm not too sure...
I won't be holding my breath.
Yeah.
And once again, we're just two people who just talk about the NDIS day in, day out.
(56:15):
We love the NDIS and work within it but we are not people...
We're not lawyers.
We are not lawyers or any sort of...we are not providing advice to anyone for anything.
This is informational purposes only.
So lastly, Sam, I wanted to talk about the transition of the AAT or the Administrative
(56:47):
Appeals Tribunal to a new body called the Administrative Review Tribunal or the new
tribunal.
Now, by and large, for people who are going to the new ART from the 14th of October 2024,
(57:11):
this will change nothing.
You will notice nothing.
Don't stress.
But the biggest change that we are seeing over AAT to ART is that now the people who
sit and listen over it, who are called a member, a bit like a judge, but it's called a member
(57:37):
when it comes to ART, they now have to have some sort of qualification.
Whereas before they could be any bozo who applied to the position.
So I think this is a step in the right direction.
I don't know.
(57:59):
I guess.
So for right this very second, if you are listening to this before the 14th of October
2024 and you currently have a case at AAT, don't stress.
Your case will just switch over to ART.
(58:19):
Nothing will change.
You will still go along the same you ever had.
It is like a rebrand, essentially.
And the idea was to help get through the backlog that's at AAT.
So they're going also hopefully, I guess we're not holding our breath again, but they're
(58:43):
going to also be extending the number of members that they're allowed to hire at any one given
time so that hopefully people get through the process faster.
Good things hopefully.
Hopefully.
Or maybe just a speedier process.
Although speed may not necessarily be good.
(59:03):
Well, no, but since currently the process often takes people two or three years, a speedier
process I think would speedier would be preferable.
So I just wanted to highlight that because I think it is getting a little lost in everything
(59:25):
else that has just come out because it is a lot.
And that's why this episode is long, why it's taken us two episodes to get through all the
recent news.
So people strap yourself in because I don't know it's getting any easier.
No.
It's, yeah, easy is not a word I would use in this current context.
(59:49):
I'm just kind of grateful for being able to get out into the middle of Bunpuck nowhere
over the weekend and before I dip my toes back into all of this and get swallowed up
very quickly.
I hope it was fun for you because now you're stuffed.
Look, I think I was still stuffed beforehand.
It was just nice to have a weekend, a week, a couple of days where I could pretend it
(01:00:12):
was, it was non-existent.
But stories for another days.
Yes.
All right.
Well, thank you for following along with us, for listening to us and for your comments
of how much you love the podcast.
We definitely enjoy hearing that because sometimes we wonder if anyone's still listening to our
(01:00:39):
ramblings.
So feel free to hit us up at any time and let us know.
If you love the podcast, if you don't love the podcast, you don't have to tell us, it's
free.
It's on the internet.
You can just keep moving along if you don't like it.
(01:00:59):
Before we wrap up, Hannah, just want to quickly, you've had a bit of a change in your world.
Ah, the rumours are true.
Yes.
After six years of being a support coordinator, I have hung up that hat.
I don't know.
Is that what we do in support coordination?
It's good for sun protection.
(01:01:24):
And I've decided to do something a little different, a little sideways.
Tell our listeners more.
So it's called Plan Decoders.
And what we do is we come out to you in a two hour session and we help you understand
the plan and decode it a bit because often it looks like it's written in code and it's
(01:01:48):
confusing as all fuck.
And we make it less confusing.
Now you're not, it's sorry, it's not support coordination or plan management, is it?
No, but it can complement what support coordinators are doing.
So if you don't have a support coordinator at all, this service is perfect for you because
(01:02:12):
we can start from the very beginning, work through your plan, explain it all and the
ins and outs.
If you do have a support coordinator, we can also support you because what we found is
some support coordinators have called us and of course support coordination funding is
getting smaller and smaller.
(01:02:33):
And so what we've been able to do is they say, hey, can you go out and do the capacity
building component while I sit here and put the services in place because we charge under
a different line item.
Then we're also complementing what plan managers are doing because plan managers aren't funded
to go out to a person face to face, which is what a lot of people need and go through
(01:03:00):
exactly what is happening in their plan.
So we go out face to face if people are in South East Queensland and then we also have
the option for telehealth if people would prefer telehealth, but also telehealth to
the rest of Australia.
And telehealth is also good because you will see our shining happy faces on a screen and
(01:03:26):
also we can still show you through your plan because there's screen sharing and stuff
like that.
So it still works very well.
And yeah, that's the very basics to start off with, but stay tuned because we will have
(01:03:46):
a whole episode explaining all about this.
Exciting.
And if people want to go suss out a little bit more.
If people want to suss out more, the best way to find out more information is to go
to plannedecoders.com.au and that will be in the show notes.
(01:04:08):
And also I've got the same phone number.
If you've ever had my phone number, I have the same phone number and you will also find
that on the website and in the show notes.
Awesome.
Well, has and happy days.
Yeah.
Somewhat happy days.
It's a day.
Thanks Sam.
Thanks Anna.
Bye.
Thank you for listening.
(01:04:32):
Please share with people you know.
Until next time, as the Green Brothers say, don't forget to be awesome.
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