Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi! This is Elizabeth PearsonGarr, the host of What It's Like
(00:03):
To.
We haven't put out new episodesin a bit, but I'm jumping back
in for a few weeks because of anevent I absolutely love, and
have talked with experts about afew times on this podcast.
The Olympics.
Today we're revisiting aconversation with Jeff Cable,
who's currently in Paris,preparing to photograph his
eighth Olympic Games.
(00:24):
Just a note, when this interviewfirst ran, my podcast still had
its original name.
so don't be confused when youhear me refer to the Experience
Podcast.
We eventually morphed into WhatIt's Like To.
So sit back and get ready forthe Olympics as we learn about
what it's like to photograph thegames for Team USA with Jeff
Cable It is a matter of stayingvery focused to make sure that
(00:55):
I'm getting what the team wants,what I want, what the athletes
want, and also making sure it'sin focus, I've got good
backgrounds, the lighting'sright, my shutter speed's right.
Clearly there's a lot toconsider when you're responsible
for capturing images of Team USAathletes at the Olympic Games.
I'm Elizabeth Pearson Garr andthis is the Experience Podcast.
(01:19):
On this episode, we get toexperience the Olympics through
the lens of Jeff Cable, who hasphotographed the past seven
Olympic Games for the U.
S.
Olympic Committee, and he'sgetting ready to head to Beijing
for the upcoming 2022 WinterGames.
Jeff is the official teamphotographer for the men's and
women's water polo and icehockey teams, and as you'll
(01:41):
hear, he gets to spend the restof the Games taking photos of
whatever events interest him.
Thanks Hi, Jeff.
Thank you for joining me on mypodcast.
It's nice to be here.
I am, uh, really excited to talkto you because you have such a
fascinating job.
On the one hand, it sounds likea dream job because you have a
(02:02):
front row seat to the Olympics.
It's something that I feel likeall of us would love to have,
but it is hard work.
What you do is, is probablyreally grueling.
It is.
It's a combination of theexcitement of being there and
I've done seven Olympics and Imean the first one obviously it
was amazing and the second onewas like incredible and it
(02:24):
becomes more work over time, butstill it's a combination of
excitement, but also knowing andplanning and prepping for three
weeks of just full on.
No rest.
Go, go, go.
How far in advance are youstarting to prepare, say, for
the winter 2022 Olympics?
(02:44):
Are you already getting readyfor that?
Do they send you a schedule?
Obviously you cannot shoot everysport, every event.
Right.
Well, pre COVID, a typicalplanning process would start
about two years in advance.
It's a long process.
The credentialing process is thefirst part.
So will I get credentialed,which I've done so much for Team
(03:05):
USA now that that is no longerreally a question, which is a
huge luxury because, you know,any photographer would love to
shoot the Olympics.
So there's very few credentials.
I'm lucky that that is Now kindof a given as opposed to a
question That's the first partand then part of the
credentialing is securityclearances and all that kind of
stuff and that happens reallyreally far in advance, but then
(03:27):
Typical Olympics, the next partof that process is trying to
figure out, well, there's thecontract with the team that I'm
shooting for.
And then there's the things likehousing, airfare, uh, logistics,
and that kind of thing.
In normal times, there's a lotof planning that goes in.
I mean, my first Olympics, Ididn't sleep for like six months
because I was so nervous about,you know, knowing what to do.
(03:48):
And there's a lot of logisticsthat when you get to the
Olympics.
As a first timer, you don't knowwhat to expect.
So you think you're just goingto go to opening ceremonies and
you find out even though youhave an all access pass, that
doesn't get you to opening orclosing ceremonies.
It doesn't get you to any highimpact event.
In the days when Michael Phelpswas swimming, every photographer
wanted to be there, so theycan't allow that.
So you have to be speciallyticketed for that until you know
(04:10):
all the protocol.
It's a bit daunting.
I've done so many now.
I know, like, the minute I gotto Tokyo, I got to my hotel,
went to sleep, and the nextmorning I got up, went straight
to the press center, and startedgetting my photography bib.
You have to have the vest.
Getting lockers.
checking in with all the rightpeople to make sure that I had
(04:31):
the right things I needed forinternet access and then so on
straight to the water polo venueto get a locker there to talk to
the venue manager like all thethings I knew that I had to get
in place but if you've neverdone it or you've only done one
you're thrown in the deep endand it's a bit scary so all
access does not mean all accessit really doesn't mean all
access means and I'm lucky tohave that credential there's
(04:52):
different levels of credentialsbut yes I have full access other
than the Olympic village.
Um, we're not allowed to go intotheir living space under normal
times, not during COVID.
There is a tour that goes inwhere you could tour the Olympic
village.
I've never done it.
I don't have time for it, butyes, it means I can go to any
venue, any sport and shootwhatever I want, which is pretty
(05:12):
cool.
But obviously you don't havetime to do that either.
I mean, so are you given aschedule by the U S Olympic
committee, say, You're going todo these water polo games and
these gymnastic events and thatsort of thing, or do you just
decide what you want to shoot?
Yeah, so I'm the, I think I'mthe only independent
photographer for Team USA, whichis a huge luxury.
(05:33):
It means that I can determine myown schedule.
So what I do is I shoot for USAWater Polo in the summer.
So Summer Olympics, I shoot formen's and women's team, every
game.
Those are about an hour and 20minutes.
For a game, and then you've gottime for me to get there,
prepare before the game starts,and also to get images to them
as soon as the game's over.
So it's about a three and a halfhour window, and the rest of the
(05:54):
time, I can go do whatever Iwant.
So once I'm done shooting waterpolo or water polos in the
evening, I can go somewhere inthe morning and go shoot.
And then winter Olympics, Ishoot for USA hockey as my
primary team.
So men's and women's ice hockey.
So again, I'm there for allthose.
But then any other free time, Ican just wake up in the morning
and say, Gee, the game's nottill 7 p.
(06:15):
m.
I think today I'm go shoot.
or weightlifting and go do that.
And I love that because I'm suchan ADD person.
I don't want to shoot justhockey as much as I love hockey
or water polo.
I want to go shoot other thingsthat are really fun and
interesting and a challenge.
So let's say you get to the poolor to the rink.
(06:35):
Are you supposed to go to aspecific spot or do you have
free reign of the whole arena.
Like, can you, can you shootfrom any angle you want to?
No, no, no.
I mean, very much the oppositeof that.
At the Olympics, it is veryregimented for a lot of reasons.
They don't, I mean, obviouslyCOVID, they don't want us
getting too close to theathletes.
(06:56):
Of course, as theirphotographer, I tend to get
closer than most, but yeah,they've got very specific places
to stand because It's all abouttelevision.
And the last thing they want issomeone being in front of a
camera that's not supposed to bethere.
So even in Tokyo where there'sno one in the stands, right,
there were no spectators, westill were limited.
We weren't allowed in mostplaces, which is very strange
because it was wide open, butthey didn't want us roaming
(07:19):
around the background of a TVshot.
But even in typical Olympics,it's very strict.
So for instance, for ice hockey,there's only a certain amount of
seats on the glass down at therink level.
And you have to put in for thoseagain, as a team photographer,
that's pretty much guaranteedfor me.
But then I get to the rink earlybecause they don't put holes in
(07:40):
the glass.
Like when we shoot an NHL game.
So I'm here in the Bay Area andI'll shoot for the San Jose
Sharks.
I can shoot through a hole.
At the Olympics, there's noholes.
You're shooting throughplexiglass.
So, the first thing I'll do whenI get to the rink is I'll go
say, Okay, which way are weshooting first?
So I'll be I want to be on theoffensive side for two periods
defensive side for one periodand I walk around and try to
find clean plexi.
(08:02):
So I'll look and say okayposition 56 62 and 81 of clean
plexi.
Then I'll go back to the mediaroom there and say I want one of
these three spots.
Some venue managers will sayfine and some venue managers
will say sorry we don't reservespots.
You're gonna have to wait.
To 10 minutes before the gameand you get what you get.
(08:22):
And that's a bit of a challenge.
So it's making nice with thevenue managers a lot.
And like a water polo, I wasthere every day because I was
shooting for the team and theyalternate one day as men, one
day as woman.
They know me, Arnold, who is thevenue manager, photo manager.
He and I became friends andtalked every day and, and we
worked well together.
(08:42):
There's something called OBS,which is Olympic broadcast and
Olympic broadcast system.
They own the world.
So every television feed thatyou see on NBC is coming from
OBS and they sell that video toall countries.
So there's no NBC cameras therebecause of course, can you
imagine if you had a camera fromevery country?
So, uh, water polo.
One of the OBS cameramen told meas soon as the game starts I
(09:05):
move in about eight feet thisway You can stand in my spot,
which is a great shootingposition So I went back and I
talked to Arnold and said doesthat work for you?
He goes, yeah, if it's okay withthem, it's okay with me.
So every game that was my spot Ikind of commandeered that spot
and so it is a matter ofplanning and treating people
with respect and working thesystem Relationships big time.
(09:25):
Yeah, right.
Isn't that true in any business?
Sure.
Yeah.
So how many other photographersare there usually at an event or
does it just, you know, itdepends on the event.
I mean, like water polo, if it'sa prelim game, you may have six
photographers there, you know,gold medal game, then all of a
sudden you have 50 photographersall vying for the same position,
but you know, certain eventswhen Hussein Bolt would run or
(09:48):
Michael Phelps is in the pool,Katie Ledecky is in the pool,
you're going to have 500photographers or more.
All trying to get a shot.
So like for swimming, uh, Iremember, you know, shooting
Phelps when he was in the heydayand every photographer wanted to
be there while summer Olympics,you got 2, 200 photographers,
there's not space for 2, 200, sothey'll have four shooting
(10:11):
positions.
One will be at the dive inposition.
So that's where you get themgoing in the pool.
And you'll have one position onthis side of the pool, which is
midway along the pool to getpictures of them mid stroke.
You'll have another one at theother end of the pool, where
you're facing them so you cansee their reaction if they win
or lose.
And there might be a highposition from, you know, up
where the spectators are sittingand that kind of thing.
(10:32):
And that's it.
And so everybody tried to bethere.
And even though you've got thefull credentials, you still have
to be ticketed to get into thatevent.
So that's the kind of thing youwould have looked at your
schedule and you would have goneto the media center early that
morning and said, I want to goto that Phelps 200 butterfly
final and just hope that youwere one of the first couple
hundred.
Well, it's not a hope thing andit's not a first come first
(10:54):
serve.
It's my organizing committee isthe U.
S.
Olympic committee.
So I go to the USOC office andthey've got a sign in board for
every high demand event.
And I'll say to them, I'd liketo go to opening ceremonies.
I know to do that right away.
And so I'll go there and say,Hey, I want to go to the men's
butterfly at eight o'clocktonight, and I'll put my name on
(11:14):
the list.
Or I used to put my name on alist and hope to get one.
Now I'm, they'll pretty muchhand me one.
And so it is a, a pecking order.
If I'm shooting for the team andI know them, I'm likely to get
one.
If I'm shooting for a smalllocal newspaper in Arizona that
no one reads, you probably won'tget one.
It's just, it's, that's kind ofthe way it works.
(11:36):
What are you looking for?
I'm not a photographer, I'm justa point and shoot, but you know
I'm trying to look forcomposition, I'm trying to look
for lighting or angles, but somuch is happening in these
sporting competitions.
Things are moving, and I'velooked at a lot of your
photographs and they'reincredible.
Just walk me through it.
(11:56):
You're changing cameras thatyou're using and probably
shutter speeds.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, you know, in every eventthat people ask me all the time,
like, what's, what's yoursetting?
I said, well, it depends whatI'm shooting.
If I'm shooting indoors versusoutdoor, or I'm trying to shoot
with a really fast shutter speedto, to freeze the action of a
gymnast on the balance beammidair, then I'm shooting at a
(12:16):
thousandth of a second.
But a lot of times I push myselfand try to create something
different and more artistic andthen it's slowing the shutter
speed way down.
So instead of being a thousandthof a second, I shot equestrian
for two and a half hours at 20thof a second.
where I'm moving my lens at theexact same speed as the horse
and rider trying to create someart.
And so the advantage of shootingthat way, well, if I'm not
(12:39):
contractually obligated, if I'mcontractually obligated to
deliver images like for USAwater polo in Tokyo, I'm not
gonna get too artistic becauseit's not what they want.
And so at a water polo game, oneis knowing the sport.
and anticipating what's going tohappen.
I usually, I want to be reallylow to the action.
So I'm at the same level as theathletes.
So even when I was on the pooldeck in Tokyo, a lot of times I
(13:01):
would get down on my knees andshoot low.
Because now I'm in the faces ofthe athletes, which brings you
into this sport and it makes itmore personal.
But it just changes at everyplace I am.
Lighting at the Olympics isamazing because it's lit for
television.
So it's kind of cheating in away.
It's shooting at a local highschool is much harder in some
respects than shooting theOlympics.
(13:22):
I've got great lighting, I getthe best athletes in the world,
and I have really nicebackgrounds.
I had never thought that it waslit for television.
I never thought that they evenDid a whole lighting setup, but
of course, it's yeah, hundredsof millions of dollars of
testing and lighting to get itas good as possible.
And so I'm able to shoot in manyrespects, easier than I can
(13:43):
hear.
Then the challenge is how do Icome up with images different
from the 2, 200 other peoplethat are there?
And so, you know, I use the bestequipment.
I am sponsored by Canon.
I use, you know, Apple, thefastest laptops they've got, the
fastest memory cards because mydeadlines and this.
Kind of blows people away, butmy deadlines are 14 minutes in
Beijing.
(14:05):
So after the event, let's say itfinishes at 8 32 p.
m.
14 minutes later, you'reexpected to deliver images.
Yes.
So if I shoot like a typicalwater polo match with a new
camera where I'm shootingsometimes at 30 frames a second,
I may have.
2600 images at the end of thegame.
I have 14 minutes to go throughthose 2600, find the best 8 to
(14:25):
10 images, retouch them, resizethem, and get them back to the
team because of social media.
When I first started shootingthe Olympics years and years
ago, it was a 24 hour deadline,then it went to 12 hour
deadline, and then with socialmedia it went to 2 hour
deadline, and now they wantstuff that's 24 hour.
Immediately, if you look atsomething like for USA hockey,
(14:46):
the minute they're off the iceat the end of the first period,
they want some images to push tosocial media, say, you know, us
is up over Russia two to onetune in for the second and third
period.
And they want some images tosupport that.
So that's why that deadline isso tight.
So in the middle of the game,are you having to go through
your images in the middle of thegame?
Yes.
So when I shoot, so water pologoes straight through.
(15:07):
There is no logical break.
So I am shooting the whole waythrough water polo and then I
run down to the press room andFirst thing I do is just open
the laptop, jam my memory cardsinto the reader, download as
fast as possible, start looking.
And I've already got in my mind,Ooh, I remember there was a
great shot of the goaltenderstopping one there.
And again, the job of aphotographer is to tell a story.
(15:28):
So I've kind of had that storyin my mind.
Like if it was a shutout, Ibetter have a great shot of the
goaltender stopping something.
If one particular athlete scoredfive goals, I better have a
great shot of that personscoring a goal.
So I'm already thinking, what isthe story I'm trying to tell?
Cool.
And what are the best images tosupport that?
And so as I'm shooting, that'sin my mind.
(15:48):
And then when I get to the pressroom, I'll do that.
On ice hockey, that 15 minutebreak between period 1, period
2, and period 2, period 3, Ihave my laptop sitting next to
me on the ice.
The ice actually goes underneaththe rink, onto our feet, which
is really cold by the way.
Um, and so my, my laptop issitting there with me.
And the minute the buzzer goes,or if the play is at the other
(16:12):
side of the rink, And I knowthere's only six seconds left.
It's not going to come back myway.
That buys me an extra sixseconds.
So I'll open my laptop and startthe download process as fast as
I can.
And I will literally edit on mylap and then upload images from
the rink.
I never leave.
And so really I even have to goto the bathroom and plan that
because I don't move for fourhours.
(16:32):
And so talk about grace underpressure.
I mean, you really have to stayfocused.
Yeah, I joke about taking drugsand I never have in my life, but
I drink a lot of Diet Coke and Isay my brain has to be as fast
as all the camera equipment,computer equipment and
everything else I'm using.
The Olympics, we're working ninein the morning till two or three
in the morning every day forthree weeks.
And so trying to keep your brainsharp is a challenge at times.
(16:57):
But you can't drink that DietCoke before the hockey game.
No, actually, I tried not toright before.
Water polo is only an hour and ahalf match, and I could
generally make it work.
But I've seen photographers.
There are certain venues wherewe're not allowed to leave at
all, like speed skating.
I remember in Vancouver, wewalked through the athletes and
what they called the flood zonewhere the Zamboni came out.
(17:18):
And they said, once you're inshooting position, you cannot
leave.
And there were guys that had togo to the bathroom and they were
asking the fans, Hey, are youdone with your bottle of water
or whatever?
And Heidi in a corner and like,you know, yeah, it's, it's
crazy.
You do what you need to do.
Yep.
So that's an amazing schedule,9am to 2 or 3am, to keep that up
(17:39):
for sort of three weeks.
How do you do that?
I mean, is it just kind ofadrenaline after a while and
it's just fun and exciting andyou just keep going?
Yeah, I mean it's, I'm very typeA anyway, and so for me it kind
of works, but sure, it's stillexciting, and the thing is when
you're there, especially with mysituation where I'm
contractually obligated to shootsome things, but then the rest
(18:01):
is just for fun, and building aportfolio, someday maybe a book,
and I blog every day from theOlympics, and the blog is a big
part of When I go there, it's ahuge thing.
So I was going out and shootingthings that I thought would be
interesting to the readers asmuch as interesting to me.
And then the problem is tryingto pace yourself because I get
done shooting water polo and allI think about is I need to get
(18:22):
something to eat and I'd beeating and looking at the
screens in the press room as I'meating, thinking, darn it, I
should have been over at.
fencing to get a great shot ofthat or you know because they
actually simulcast a lot of thevideo feed throughout the uh the
restaurants and press rooms soyou can see what's happening at
other venues and it's like manthis is frustrating something
amazing is happening at boxingand i'm not there i'm just
(18:45):
sitting here eating i try not toeat for a long time i usually
slam food and get the heck outof there as fast as possible and
you really don't walk at theolympics i run almost everywhere
just i'm always moving Andyou're carrying all this heavy
equipment or you mentionedthere's lockers at certain
venues.
Yeah, I rarely use the lockersare more for keeping the laptop
and stuff in between.
(19:06):
Like when I'm up on the pooldeck shooting, all my other gear
is locked up that I'm not using.
Yeah, I'm carting a lot of stuffwith me.
The good thing is, as opposed tothe Olympics I shot years ago, I
use rolling bags most of thetime now just to save my back,
but I'm still huffing largelenses and big cameras.
It does get heavy and awkward,especially at Winter Olympics,
(19:28):
because you're also dressed.
And all those heavy garments andthen you get on a press bus and
it's 90 degrees.
I don't know why they do that.
So now you're trying to dump allyour gear and shed off all this
clothing.
And half an hour later you getoff and it's minus 4 outside.
And you're trying to geteverything back on again.
You know, yeah, it's, it's, it'sfun but it's not sometimes.
So you stay in a hotel and thenyou take press buses from venue
(19:52):
to venue or how does that work?
Yeah, typically we're either ina hotel or like in Pyeongchang
when we were there in Korea Theyhad press housing buildings and
all of us were in those Itdepends on the city.
In Japan, I was in a businesshotel that was like, seriously,
my room was like the size of mybathroom here at home.
When I first walked in there, Iwas like, Oh my gosh, like there
(20:14):
was no closet.
It was crazy.
So you don't know what you'regoing to get.
So you're getting up atwhatever, eight in the morning
after five or six hours ofsleep, and you get something
quick to eat.
And then you hop a press bus andgo to your venue.
And then you're just sort of offfor the day and you have a
little schedule that you know,what you, the things you have to
shoot.
And then from there, you kind ofjust wing it about what looks
(20:35):
interesting.
Well, any hotel hosting Olympicmedia has to provide breakfast.
So it's good because normally.
We can just go down and we getour free breakfast and then go.
In Japan, every breakfast wasfish.
I'm allergic to fish.
So I got there and I said, um, Ican't eat this.
And they didn't understand.
And I said, is it fish today?
(20:56):
And he goes, Oh, fish every day,fish every day.
And I'm like, that's not goingto work.
And so I got them to switch outand I had, Teriyaki chicken or
hamburger every day forbreakfast.
It was very bizarre.
Um, and had to, and miso soupand, but, um, it was still
breakfast and I was okay withthat.
Got used to it.
But normally we have a regularkind of Western breakfast where
they'll have eggs and sausage orwhatever.
(21:16):
And the first day is like, Oh,this is not bad.
And by day 21, you're like thesame thing.
Um, I eat that.
And then the press bus, Normallyit was not in Tokyo, but
normally it's to the minute.
So if the press bus says it'llbe there at 8 38, it's there at
8 38 and out.
So I'll leave at 8 36 frombreakfast and run to the bus,
(21:37):
hop on the bus, go to the mainpress center usually.
And then all the othertransportation spiders out from
the main press center.
So it's one bus from whereverI'm staying.
To the Olympic Park and thenI'll say, okay, now I got to get
the bus from there to whatevervenue I'm going to and that
could be anywhere from 10minutes to two hours depending
on the venue and you can't getthere five minutes before it
(22:00):
starts because you have tofigure out where you're going to
shoot from or it might be apecking order where it's first
come first serve.
So you try and get there early.
And then I shoot the event andthen I either stay in the press
room for a couple minutes or Igo right back to a press bus and
I do all the work on the bus.
So I'll break out the laptop andthe reader and I'll download on
the bus when I'm going back tothe main press center to then
(22:20):
take another bus to where I'mgoing next.
And so figuring out the bussystem can take sometimes days.
You mentioned having to gothrough those, you know, maybe
2, 600 shots in 14 minutes.
I assume you don't just get ridof the others.
Do you ever go back and thensay, Oh, I really missed some
good ones here.
And then what do you do withsome of the discarded ones?
(22:42):
I keep a lot of images.
When I'm shooting 2600, there'sa lot of those that are either
not peak of action, or I thoughtsomething amazing was going to
happen and didn't, and so I'vegot stuff that just either
doesn't tell a story or doesn'treally mean anything.
I also have some, yes, I'm notperfect, there's some that are
out of focus, or the ref got inyour way and you got the back of
(23:02):
a striped jersey instead of theathlete or whatever it might be.
There are lots of those, and Iwill try to purge through and
get rid of those.
And again, that's done on apress bus, or while I'm slamming
dinner, or it's done at two inthe morning.
And that's why, even though Iget back to the hotel at one in
the morning, if I haven't purgedthose images, I need to do that
because I don't want to go fallbehind.
(23:23):
So a typical 2600 image game, Imight keep 1400.
of those images, even thoughI've only delivered 25 to the
team.
Um, and yeah, sometimes I'll goback and look at them again, but
honestly, most of the time Idon't have time.
And so you said you deliver alot of them to the team, and
then you sometimes give themjust to the athletes later, kind
(23:45):
of as a gift?
I do.
Yeah, surprisingly, uh, Iremember when Shawn Johnson was
doing gymnastics in London, andI was on the same flight with
her and the team, and we weretalking a little bit.
And then she went and competedand did great and I didn't get a
chance to talk to her afterthat.
I didn't see her again.
And then she was in VancouverOlympics a year and a half later
(24:06):
doing something for NBC.
And I saw her and we weretalking and I said, here's some
photos that I have of you.
Do you remember this?
And some were like getting offthe plane.
Some were here competing.
And she says, Oh my God, I'dlove to have those.
And I said, wait, you don't havethose.
Images of you competing?
She says, no, where would I getthem?
And I realized that, you know,most of the people shooting
(24:26):
there are media outlets likeGetty or Associated Press or a
newspaper where they don't giveimages to anybody, right?
You have to buy them for use.
And so I said to her, I'd loveto give them to you.
So I emailed her a Dropbox linkto a bunch of images of her.
And I do that for the athletes.
I was on a flight home fromTokyo with a bunch of medalists
from Team USA.
And I did the same thing.
(24:48):
And I think it's a shame thatthese people.
compete and don't have photos ofthemselves because it's not like
their mom and dad could be inTokyo because they didn't even
have spectators.
They really had nothing.
I feel so fortunate to do what Ido and to do what I love that to
me it's an honor to be able togive those images to those
people.
Well, it's so nice of youbecause even if their mom and
(25:08):
dad were there, they wouldn'thave that same angle or
obviously the same skill set toget those kind of images.
Yeah.
And I was also thinking about, Imean, most of us just see it as
moving images, you know, TV, andthat's probably what they have.
You know, they have recordingsof their routines or their games
or their matches.
And so it must be so cool forShawn Johnson to see like that
(25:31):
shot of her doing the, the flipin midair or.
Getting off the bus.
I mean, these things, she'sprobably like, wow, it's just
really captured that, thatmoment that all she has seen is
the video.
Yeah.
And it's fun.
Actually, there was a greatstory on that too, because when
I gave her those images at thetime, my nephew was in love with
her.
She was very cute.
And, and so I texted my brotherand said, I'm hanging out with
(25:53):
Sean Johnson.
And he said, you know, it'sBlake's birthday today.
And I said, Oh my gosh, so Isaid to Sean, I'll give you
these images.
Can you do me a favor and callmy nephew and wish him a happy
birthday?
So I was like, uncle of thedecade, you know, it was really
funny.
Yeah.
So that I get some payment forthat one, but you know, everyone
wins.
It was great.
(26:15):
Can you talk a little bit aboutshooting that opening and
closing ceremonies?
how that must differ so muchfrom shooting the events because
you know you're in theseginormous stadiums and right
what where are you shooting fromand do you do zoom lens yeah oh
yeah yeah yeah big lenses thereyou know the opening ceremonies
is always a kind of a marqueething for me because it's the
(26:36):
start it's the official start ofthe olympics even though believe
it or not they actually havesome competition the day of
opening ceremonies sometimeseven a few days before i
remember reading yeah so we'reactually shooting potentially
figure skating and some thingsPrior to, but the opening
ceremonies is like kind of mykickoff.
Like, okay, here we go.
Get ready for three weeks ofjust no rest.
(26:58):
Go, go, go.
And in opening ceremonies,there's a lot of trepidation
getting there.
There's thousands of media andthere's tens of thousands of
spectators and tens of thousandsof people who are in the show.
And so it's a daunting task toget in.
And that process can take aboutfive to six hours just to get in
the stadium and get in position.
(27:18):
And we have to be there three tofour hours before it starts.
And it's one of the few placeswhere we're not on the deck.
So we're sitting in the standswith the public.
So they have usually six toseven sections.
of photographers.
So when I go to the U.
S.
Olympic Committee and say, Iwant to go to opening ceremonies
and they say, okay, great.
We have a ticket for you.
What section do you want?
(27:39):
And I'll look and say, okay,where are the dignitaries
sitting?
Okay.
They're sitting there.
So I want to be near thembecause that way everybody will
be facing the dignitaries.
Now security will be a littlehigher because of here.
Yeah.
And so, but it's also different.
There's some people who don'twant to be there.
They want to be lower.
So they have a different angle.
And so it's kind of a risk thatyou take.
(27:59):
And then like in Pyeongchang, itwas minus four degrees
Fahrenheit.
So I'm like, where can I sitwhere I can also go get warm?
The one great thing about Tokyowas because of social
distancing, we had seats opennext to us so I could put my
gear down.
Normally we're crammed in and wehave all our gear and we're
sitting next to each other andyou're trying to carry two or
(28:20):
three cameras and your lensesand laptop.
And it's like you can barelymove.
And so that can be tough.
But it's a great thing to shoot.
We do use long lenses.
It's fun because it's somewhatentertaining.
You know, you're waiting foryour team to come out.
And of course, summer Olympics,there's every team.
Of all these different countriesand that can take hours So, you
(28:40):
know once I shoot the team usacoming in i'm just sitting there
for sometimes two hours I mightgo get a hot dog or do something
or walk around and if you cantrust your gear I know a lot of
other photographers becausewe've worked the olympics so
many times Hopefully i'm sittingnext to someone I know and I can
say you go walk.
I'll watch your gear I'm gonnago walk you watch my gear We're
really looking for our team tocome in and we're looking for
(29:02):
like the fireworks or the droneshow in the case of recently
where they're doing coolpatterns with the drones.
Those are the things we'relooking for those key moments.
Then the biggest challenge isgetting the heck out of there.
I've had times where it's takenme five or six hours to get home
because of traffic and trying toget onto a press bus that
doesn't have a long line.
And so you're home at four inthe morning and that's really
(29:24):
frustrating.
And so I usually try to run andget on the first bus I can.
But now you're running with allthat equipment and you're
sweating your brains out, but I,I got home by one in the
morning.
I was thrilled.
It sounds stressful.
I mean Oh, it is.
A lot of this feels like you gotto get back home so you get some
sleep so you can get up so youcan make sure you get to the
next event in the next morningand, you know, and be focused.
(29:47):
It's not like you're justgetting to the event to go sit
and cheer.
I mean, this is a job whereyou're on.
Well, yeah, and there's a lot ofpressure because you have to get
the shot.
You have to make sure thatyou're telling the story, but
it's not just telling the story.
It's also the team will tell melike we need a number nine.
We don't have enough shots tonumber nine or this person's a
(30:09):
sub and hasn't been in the poolor on the ice at all.
If you see that person on theice, get some shots of them.
Like the backup gold tenderduring the gold medal game, the
USA woman in water polo.
And they have like a six pointlead.
And toward the end of the game,they pulled Ashley Johnson,
who's our goaltender out and putthe backup in.
I knew immediately that I had tokey in on that backup goaltender
(30:30):
for minutes to wait for her toget a killer stop.
So I could get at least onegreat image for her and the team
to have.
For the bio, for her marketing,for the website.
And so I'm thinking thatthrough.
So it is a matter of staying, asyou said, no pun intended,
staying very focused to makesure that I'm getting what the
team wants, what I want, but theathletes want, and also making
(30:53):
sure it's in focus.
I've got good backgrounds, thelighting's right.
My shutter speeds, right.
And I'm not overshooting.
Because if you hammer theshutter at 30 frames a second,
now you end up with 5, 000images during that game.
It's even harder to meet thatcontract.
So it is a lot of pressure.
So can we just use that as anexample?
So you know you need a shot ofthe goalie.
(31:14):
So you're aimed down there.
But there's a lot of actiongoing on the whole rest of the
pool.
What if a goal is going tohappen at the other end?
I mean, how are you actuallyHandling those minutes.
Yeah, and this is where I meanknowing the game and
understanding the game is reallyimportant.
I play ice hockey.
It was very easy to predict thegame because I know the game.
For water polo, I'd never playedthe game so I had to learn the
(31:35):
game.
So before I shot for USA WaterPolo in London, I went to high
school games, college games, andI would have someone who really
knew the game sit next to me andexplain to me As I'm shooting,
for instance, one of the thingsthat happens in water polo is
it's not just the person withthe ball, but there's people
fighting for position in frontof the net called the two meter
position, and it can get bloodyin there, and they're scratching
(31:56):
and clawing to get position.
There's a lot of good shots inthat action there.
And so you have to be cognizantof that as you're shooting.
And so what I do, and I shootevents here in the Bay Area, I
don't just do sports.
So it's no different thanshooting a bar mitzvah or
wedding or.
You need to keep your eyes openand your head on a swivel all
the time to see what'shappening.
If I'm shooting a personalevent, and Grandma is sitting
(32:19):
down and has not been on thedance floor the entire night,
and at the end of the night,Grandma decides to be on the
dance floor, I better get a shotof Grandma on the dance floor.
And the same thing holds true atthe Olympics.
If something's happening, I'mtrying to be aware of
everything.
Even though I'm focused on thepool, what's the coach doing?
Is he mad at the refs for a badcall?
I need to get a shot of himyelling at the refs.
And in the gold medal game, theshot isn't really the action in
(32:42):
the pool.
It's the reaction of theathletes when a goal is scored,
what are her teammates doingthat are on the bench?
They're going crazy.
So I'm looking for that.
Or in the case of ice hockey,they jump all over each other
and go crazy.
Water polo, they kind of justmaybe get a fist bump, turn
around and keep swimming.
Each sport's different.
Like I noticed in beachvolleyball, every point they go
(33:04):
crazy.
You know, they give you a lot ofreaction.
So it's very easy in volleyballto get a really great reaction
shot, less so in water polo.
But you have to be cognizant ofall of that when you're
shooting.
And so it's just keeping youreyes open and your brain firing
all the time and it isexhausting because you have to
stay mentally on physically onfor three weeks All the time on
(33:27):
lack of sleep and almost likeyou need eyes all over your head
You know like on the side ofyour head looking over there and
on the back of your head lookingover, you know Like it really is
thinking through a lot ofangles, you know You know one of
the things i'll do when I go toan event And let's say it's team
USA playing against, I don'tknow, Japan.
When I get to the event, I'mlooking at the fans.
(33:47):
Okay.
Who's wearing lots of, well, ofcourse this didn't happen
because there were no fans inTokyo, which means we lost a lot
of really good photographicopportunity.
But what I'm doing is I'mlooking around in a normal
Olympics and I'm looking for thepeople that have the American
flags or the face painted withteam USA, go team USA, or.
Family members, and I know wherethey're sitting.
So when I shoot, let's saysomeone's scoring a goal, I'll
(34:11):
follow up with good reactionfrom the athlete and then
quickly turn around to where Iknow people are sitting and I
want to get reaction shots ofthem.
Yeah.
I remember Allie Raisman'sparents became sort of
superstars for their reactionsto her routines.
They were so nervous always.
They wouldn't even look, right?
Yeah, they couldn't even look.
(34:31):
So that was part of the story,was their involvement in their
daughter's gymnastics routines.
Well, and I think, you know,it's also, it personalizes The
story that her parents arethere, their friends are there.
And it was one of the thingsthat really was a letdown for
Tokyo.
And it will be as well inBeijing.
I'm friends with a lot of theathletes and their families
(34:51):
after doing this for so long,it's not have them there.
And to not have a team partywith the families and stuff, it
definitely lost some of thepersonality of the Olympics.
You mentioned that prior toshooting water polo, you didn't
know the sport well, so youeducated yourself about it, but
you must show up at some eventsthat you're not an expert on.
(35:11):
So is it difficult to shootthem?
It's a little bit moredifficult.
Like I remember shooting likejudo or wrestling and I don't
know when they score a point andwhen they don't.
And so I'm just shooting,looking for great action, great
expressions.
And, you know, if I'm shootingboxing, I want blood, good stuff
like that.
And I show up and I'm justlooking for.
How can I get a great image?
(35:32):
How can I push the envelope?
Like I shot a shot at fencingand it's a multi exposure shot,
probably my favorite shot fromTokyo.
And it was literally firing offfour shots on top of each other
to get really cool motion in theathletes.
And I went there knowing thatThat I don't know the sport very
well, but I knew how it was lit.
(35:52):
I've shot it before in Rio and Iknew how I wanted to shoot it
with this multi exposure mode.
And so I went there with a goalin mind, just like I went to the
equestrian and shot everythingat 20th of a second.
I knew I wanted to motion panthat and create something
artistic.
So I'll go there with that inmind, but don't know the sport
as well as I probably should.
It would make life easier.
(36:12):
We at home see a lot more ofthe, of the events than you do
there.
You know, when you're watchingtelevision at home, you guys see
way more of the Olympics than Iever see.
I'm lucky to see two events orthree events a day, tops.
But what are some of the thingsthat you see?
Oh, there's lots.
I mean, you know, there arethings like when Simone Biles
(36:34):
was supposed to do the balancebeam in the team's competition
and then she stopped.
And we didn't know why shestopped, but I was standing two
feet from her and listening tothem joking around and I could
tell she wasn't hurt.
So I was like, why is she not?
Going, her name was on theboard.
She was still in her warmupsuit.
I'm like, she's not going.
So we were confused, but weheard them talking and I could
(36:56):
hear what they're saying andthey're joking around.
And we forget that these girlsare young girls or teenagers.
And they sounded like teenagers.
They were making fun of certainpeople or, you know, commenting
on what someone was wearing.
Those are the things that mostpeople don't hear.
And I've been in situationswhere like, for instance, they
banned all alcohol drinking inTokyo because.
(37:17):
You know, they didn't wantsomeone getting drunk and then
having some COVID spread.
But when the woman won goldafter the water polo match was
over, I said to the team, weshould get portraits of all the
women with their gold medals.
We've never done that atprevious Olympics.
So I was on the pool deck, andthis is now, you know, a good
hour and a half after the gameis over, and the medical team
shows up with their ice chest,you know, generally it's for
(37:39):
icing down, you know, all theirwounds.
Well, it was all margaritas andstuff, so, and tequila shots,
so, obviously it was not ontelevision, and we didn't
publicize it too much, but, wehad a big ol party, and it was a
blast.
So, there was the fun part, likethat, where you get to,
Experience it almost like theathlete.
And they did the team pictureand said, Jeff, you're in the
shot.
So get someone else to take thepicture.
(38:00):
Cause you're part of the team.
And those are the moments whereit just warms my heart that
these people treat me like that.
I remember being in PyeongChangand Korea and the woman from USA
hockey won gold medal.
And it was a big deal.
They beat the Canadians.
They don't allow photographerson the ice.
Typically you have to shoot frombehind the plexi, but as a team
(38:21):
photographer, I was allowed onthe ice to shoot.
The gold medal celebration, andI was on the ice with them for
probably an hour.
I mean, they were ready to turnthe lights out in the venue and
they were still celebrating andHillary Knight, who's one of the
athletes.
I said, Hillary, can I borrowyour gold medal?
I want to get a picture with it.
And she's like, yeah.
So she skated over and she putthe gold medal on my neck and I
got a picture.
(38:41):
Well, I didn't realize thatthere would be security.
Every time there's a, you know,handing out gold medals, there's
security there to make sure thatno one takes that medal.
So this guy comes over to me andhe, I can't repeat what he said
on your podcast because it's notHe yelled at me like get that
blanking blank, you know medaloff and I was like freaking out
Luckily, we'd already gotten thepicture and hillary skated back
(39:02):
over and he's yelling.
I mean, she's like no, no, no Igave it to him.
Yeah.
Yeah, I gave it to him.
He's our team photographer andthen he came over to me after
You He said, I apologize.
I'm so sorry.
I thought you were just like anormal photographer.
And I said, I am a normalphotographer.
I just happen to be theirphotographer, but it's fun to go
to the team parties when theywin.
And a lot of times the teamswill say to me, don't take
(39:24):
pictures, just enjoy it with us,which is really special.
Yeah.
Those are the things that makeit fun or even more fun than
being there.
How about the times that anathlete doesn't succeed?
I mean, to just qualify for theOlympics is such an incredible
accomplishment.
And have you seen somebody,especially if there's high
expectations for them, and theydon't get to that round, or they
(39:47):
don't medal when they'reexpected to, have you ever had
to sort of take a photo or kindof be in their face and it gets
really awkward?
Well, you do.
You go for the, you know, thethrill of victory and the agony
of defeat, right?
You do have to photograph that.
And yes, I've done that where,you know, either a particular
athlete or a team fails tomedal.
(40:07):
And sure, there's frustration,there's sadness, tears
sometimes.
But that's still, as a job of aphotographer, we have to tell a
story and that's part of thatstory.
I will say, going back to whatwe just talked about, With a
woman's ice hockey in Sochi inRussia.
The woman from Team USA were upby a goal with like a couple
minutes left.
Ira is already changing lensesto go on the ice, to shoot the
(40:29):
gold medal celebration.
And Canada pulled their goalieand scored a goal to tie it.
They went to overtime and thenCanada won.
And I can tell you that that waslike watching someone die.
Because if you win a bronzemedal, you're in a bronze medal
match.
You either win a medal or youdon't.
So you're thrilled to win abronze.
When you're in a gold medalgame, you either win a gold or
(40:50):
you lose a gold.
No one says I won a silver,right?
We've always said that at home.
It almost seems better to win abronze than to get a silver
because it always seems likeyou're losing the gold or
depends on the sport.
After that game I'm in the pressroom sometimes for three, four
hours working on images for theteam, especially for a gold
medal game.
So I left the arena probablyaround one in the morning.
(41:12):
I walked outside, and all thewomen from USA Hockey were
outside crying with theirfamilies, still.
And this was three, four hoursafter the game.
And it literally, it was likethere had been a death in the
family.
And I did not photograph that,because it was a personal
moment.
Anyway, it was too dark, Ididn't want to do it.
Plus, I don't think they wouldhave appreciated that.
But the team party was the nextday, celebrating.
(41:34):
They're silver medal.
There were a couple of theladies who would not even speak.
There was one person who didn'tshow up to the party.
It was really devastating thatthey didn't win that gold.
There were some that were finewith it, and as I told them, you
know, you're lucky to win asilver medal.
It's an amazing accomplishment.
They lost to gold.
I did take some photographsthere, but I didn't photograph
(41:56):
the girls who were distraught.
I just felt like that was theirown moment.
There's an evasion of privacy.
And even though I know them andthey know that I have their best
interest in mind when I'm takingthose photos, you have to figure
out that line.
And sometimes that line does getcrossed, hopefully not by me.
But I've seen it where, youknow, you get the photographer
who jumps in on a shot.
I'm trying to get a gold medalshot of the team.
(42:18):
They know to look at me becauseI'm their photographer.
You know, I'll get them lined upin the way I want them.
I'll get ready to take apicture.
And somebody from anothercountry will elbow his way in in
front of me.
And then you have to getaggressive and say like, yell at
them, get out of my shot.
So there's some of that, but Imean, I try not to invade
anybody's privacy and, and I tryto keep it as positive as I can.
In general, is it a prettycollegial atmosphere there among
(42:39):
the press core?
Very.
Yeah.
I mean, we all work together.
I mean, yes, there are some, youknow, like any group of people,
you're going to have someindividuals who don't want to
play by the rules or, but no,it's really, it's great.
I mean, we try to help eachother out.
I try to do that because again,we're stuck with the same people
for Three weeks every two yearsmiles will become friends with
them.
I've seen photographers getkicked out of the Olympics We
(43:01):
had a woman I believe she's fromthe UK We were shooting bobsled
in Russia and We're all usingwide angle lenses because it was
where they jump into the bobsledat the beginning as they're
running and then getting intothe bobsled Oh, that's a really
well, that's a it's reallyexciting.
It's but it's a wide angle shot.
So everybody's lined up alongthat You Little slope of the ice
(43:22):
as a running.
Well, one woman went ahead ofeverybody, even though we'd all
been there for hours waiting forit to start, she went ahead of
everybody to shoot and she wasin everybody's photos.
Everybody said, Hey, get out ofthere.
And she wouldn't move.
And the venue manager said, Isthis your team?
That's going to be the next Bobsaid.
And she said, Yes, there's afine.
I'll let you shoot this one runup and then you're out of here.
(43:42):
Well, she did the one up andthen she kept shooting and they
went over to her and he took hercredentials.
Ripped him off her neck, andthat was it.
They sent her home.
You know, they're very strictabout it because you have 2, 200
photographers, and you haveanother 3, 000 writers, or
whatever it might be.
You have a lot of press there.
You can't be lenient.
And if someone breaks the rules,they have to be strict about it.
(44:03):
Like, we're not allowed to askfor autographs.
Yeah, and play have to live.
Yeah, and don't be selfish.
Yeah, we're all selfish in away.
Like, you know, when I want toget my shot, and I have that
position by the pool, I'm notgiving that up for anybody,
right?
There's a little bit of thatwhere you're, you know, looking
for the best angle or the bestposition, and you have to kind
of be a little selfish.
(44:24):
That does happen.
It's just, you try to be niceabout it.
Yeah.
I guess I was thinking of thewoman, the British woman in
front of everybody at theexpense of everybody else.
It's different than you goingearly and finding your space.
I mean, look, we've all gotteneverybody else's shot.
I did this at BMX in, I think itwas London or Rio.
I used a wide angle lens and Iput it out in front of me to get
(44:46):
a cool wide angle shot.
And I put my camera right intosomeone else's shot.
And the guy was from Russia andhe started yelling at me in
Russian.
And I just looked at him like,I'm so, so sorry.
Like, you know, I'm sorry.
And I was careful not to get inthe shot next time.
We all make mistakes and we allbash into each other.
And honestly, after two and ahalf weeks of being at the
Olympics, I You see the wear andtear on everybody, and nerves
(45:07):
get a little bit frayed attimes.
It happens.
Sure.
You know, everybody's on lack ofsleep and eating the same crappy
food for three weeks and they'reready to go home.
Yeah, by the end you're reallyready to wrap it up.
Um, yes, because it's justexhausting, you know, going at
that pace the whole time.
And at the same time, sometimesit's sad because, you know, Now
(45:29):
I've done so many of them.
It's kind of like, Oop, anotherone in the books.
And it feels cool to know that Isurvived it and did it well.
I'm much pickier about my imagesthan I was when I first shot.
You know, now, I'll come homeand go, Uh, I don't know if I
got anything good.
It's harder to best myself everytime.
Before we wrap up, can you justreiterate for me how you became
the Team USA photographer?
(45:52):
So I was in Beijing in 2008.
I was not shooting for Team USA.
I was there partiallycredentialed, not even fully
credentialed.
And I got a chance to shoot somelimited events.
And I came home from that and Isaid, I have got to do this.
I want to become an Olympicphotographer.
I saw what the otherphotographers were shooting and
just thought like, God, thatjust looks amazing.
(46:13):
And so I came home and I workedlike tirelessly trying to find
an inn.
How would I get to Vancouver toshoot the Winter Olympics?
And everywhere I turned, I hit ano.
I tried different newspapers,different magazines.
I thought, oh, I'll become ateam photographer thinking they
had them.
Like each sport would have theirown photographer.
Well, they don't.
I called USA hockey because Ithought I play hockey.
(46:33):
I love the sport and I offeredto shoot for free and didn't
even get a return phone callbecause they're probably
thinking this guy's a lunatic.
Um, so eventually, but I, I didsome, a lot of work with the San
Jose Sharks and I knew all thetop people, the Sharks, the
president, CEO, and others.
And I said, do you know peopleat USA hockey?
They said, of course.
So they put the good word in forme with the right person there.
And then that opened theconversation.
(46:56):
And then they said, we'rewilling to work with you.
Let's give it a try.
And I did it for free and provemyself.
And it, remember it costs like10 grand to go to the Olympics.
So it's not an easy decision.
And then for my first summerOlympics shooting for team USA,
at that point, I got to know thepeople at the USOC and they had
connected me up with USA waterpolo, and they were like, we'd
(47:17):
love to work with you.
I told them, don't worry, I'lllearn the sport.
You know, we had a couple ofyears before the games and I
shot that almost for free aswell for them to prove myself.
And again, this is all part ofthat, you know, working myself
into the system.
And now, you know, I've beendoing this, this will be my
eighth Olympics.
So they, they now consider mepart of the family for team USA,
which is again, a huge honor.
(47:38):
And it makes my life somewhateasier because I know that when
I ask for credentials, I'll getthem.
And so it was just that kind ofprocess of putting myself out
there using my contacts.
It's great that you had thisdesire and this dream and you
made it happen.
Like you didn't just say, Oh,that looks fun.
You worked the angles, you putin the hard work, you, you did
(48:02):
it.
Yeah.
And I, and I treat everyOlympics like it's my one and
only.
I remember going to my firstOlympics for Team USA.
That was in Vancouver.
And I really was like pinchingmyself.
Like, I can't believe I'm hereand I'm shooting for the
Olympics.
This, this is just incredible.
And then I went to my nextOlympics in London and I did the
same thing.
And I still today do the samething.
I'm so lucky to be there.
(48:23):
I don't take it for granted.
Every week I get an email.
How did you get to the Olympics?
How do I do that?
I want to do that.
And I know that the odds of thathappening for most people are
really slim.
And so I do feel really, reallyfortunate.
Yes.
It's hard work.
Yes.
There's a little bit of luckinvolved, but what a great
thing.
It's just a huge honor.
And I I'm capturing his history.
(48:44):
For these athletes and for theseteams that those live on
forever.
It's great that you're doing itand it's great that you
appreciate it so much.
Yeah, you don't take it forgranted and you enjoy what
you're doing.
It's hard work and youappreciate it.
Yeah, it's hard but like to dosomething you love is, I, again,
like I just feel so lucky.
It's work and it is a ton ofwork but, When you love what you
(49:06):
do, it's not really work.
Thank you so much, Jeff.
This has been really interestingand inspiring, and I look
forward to the next Olympics andseeing more of your images.
You're so welcome.
Most of us can't attend theOlympics, but I think we can all
relate to parts of Jeff'sjourney.
(49:27):
Here are my takeaways from ourconversation.
Number one, arrive early with aplan.
This can be especially helpfulif you need to do something like
find clean plexi to shootthrough during a hockey game.
2.
Treat other people with respectand play by the rules.
Just because.
But also, what comes around goesaround.
(49:51):
3.
Make good use of your time.
Whether it's 6 seconds at theend of a game or 20 minutes on a
shuttle bus between venues, alot can get done when you commit
to being efficient.
4.
Keep your eyes open and yourhead on a swivel.
Sometimes the most interestingthing to see isn't the action,
but other people's reactions.
(50:13):
And finally, number five.
If you have a dream, go for it.
Put yourself out there.
Work for it.
Even Olympic sized dreams cancome true with a lot of effort.
I'm inspired by Jeff's story,and I'm grateful to him for
taking the time to share hisexperiences with me.
If you want to see some of hisincredible photographs,
(50:34):
including the ones he mentionedin the interview of the fencers
and the equestrians, Go to hiswebsite, jeffcable.
com, and click on the blog link.
Please check out our website,theexperiencepodcast.
net, to explore other episodes,sign up for our insiders list
and newsletter, and find out howto follow us on social media.
(50:55):
And if you liked what you heard,please rate, review, and
subscribe to this podcast.
It helps others discover us.
I'm Elizabeth Pearson Garr.
Thanks for joining in theexperience.