Great Tips for Growing a Successful, Fun, and Sustainable Garden with William DeMille

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the WhatReally Makes a Difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whittaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health was tested when my
own health hit a landslide and Ibecame a very sick patient.

(00:22):
I've learned that showing up forour own health and vitality is a
step by step journey that wetake for the rest of our lives.
And this podcast is aboutsharing some of the things that
really make a difference on thatjourney with you.
So grab your explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical

(00:45):
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.

(01:07):
Hey, it is finally time again.
For us to talk with William.
he is a master of regenerativegardener, and he's the creator
of the Georgia schoolroom andthe Georgia revolution.
He does courses bootcamps anin-person experiences, teaching
people about soil, regeneration,agriculture that is sustainable.

(01:28):
And he does it all.
Whether you are trying to growfood in an environment, that's
easy to grow food in, or whetheryou're not, he lives in.
In the mountains in NorthernNevada.
And I can tell you that is notthe longest growing season.
There is.
He runs a full soil testing laband he's written a book.
That I really enjoy calledworry-free eating.

(01:49):
It's about restoring the soilgrowing and harvesting food.
He has been on the show before,if you didn't catch that it's
episode number 13 and he gave abasis of what we're talking
about with the soil and withland management.
And we talked about just somecool things about climate
change, how we can help what wecan do for the soil, the
nutrition and the food, all ofthat is such good stuff.

(02:10):
So that is back on episode 13,but we wanted to do another show
so that we could help people asyou're getting your gardens
ready.
So in this episode, we talkabout how you can prep your
soil.
What you can do if your soilreally is kind of crap, dirt.
And some other tips and tricksof what to do or not to do that

(02:30):
really may surprise you.
So I'm so excited to be able topresent this.
Please enjoy right along withme, Mr.
William Denelle.

Track 1 (02:45):
And we are back with William DeMille, who I know many
of you have been looking forwardto coming back on to teach us
the usable, what do we do in ourgardens this season, if we want
to do it a little differentlyand we want to have healthier
plants and more fun doing it.
So William DeMille is here withme.
Good morning, William.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (03:07):
Thank you so much.
It's exciting to be here.
I love this.

Track 1 (03:11):
Me too.
Part of why I love this isbecause I'm really grateful to
be sharing this information.
So I'm going to be talking abouthow to help people with a famine
with people that perhaps want adifferent way in episode one.
So if you haven't heard ourfirst part, we talk more about
what is happening with the soil,what that means for the
nutrition in our food, and howwe can be in a place of famine

(03:34):
even when there is food present.
And we also talked about how inrepairing the soil, we not only
can help the nutrition in thefood, but we also can repair
soils that are in famine.
We can turn deserts intograsslands, learning these
philosophies.
We talked about some of thegrasslands that were around.
We also talked about whathappens when you put cattle on

(03:55):
land in one way versus anotherway.
Just lots of really interestingthings.
So if we will, we will build onthe functionality of how to move
all of that information into ausable garden.
In this episode, but if youwould like the basics, please go
back to episode one and thenjoin us here again.
You might know a little bit moreof what we're talking about.

(04:17):
So for today, William, what I'mhoping is that we can help those
who want to grow a garden thisseason and perhaps have it be,
like I said, more fun, but alsothe food be more nutritious.
The pest problems not be so big,help save a bunch of money and
not buying stuff that's going tohurt it anyway.

(04:38):
And maybe skip some practicesthat are traditional that might
be actually hurting our garden.
That sounds like a tall orderfor most people, but for you, I
think you are well equipped toguide us.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (04:50):
Thank you.

Track 1 (04:51):
So to start off, can you give us just a little
information about the whatshould be in a healthy soil.
And I know this is starting offa little science y but I think
it's good to have a commonlanguage.
And again, for any listeners,you have written a book.
It's easy to follow along.

(05:12):
I love the style in which you'vedone it.
And it's called Worry FreeEating.
I will put a link for that inthe show notes, but in there you
talk more about the science.
So if, if you're.
Feeling like you want to spaceoff for the science part, just
listen.
We'll give you the basics.
And then if you really wantmore, grab William's book and
you can know why it willactually help you to understand

(05:34):
the basics of the science.
So go for it and tell us thebasics.
And then if people want more,they can catch a book.
Yeah.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (05:45):
on healthy food, we need to really
focus on a healthy soil first.
And we just don't do that in ourmodern gardens.
Modern gardening is more about,oh my 1st.
Let's go till up the ground.
Let's put a bunch of transplantsin and water them.
And then that's kind of what wedo.
But we really need to focus onthe soil first.

(06:09):
So instead of just doing whatwe've traditionally done, we
want to have a soil that isfilled with all of the healthy
microbes.
So that would mean beneficialfungus, bacteria, protozoa,
nematodes, microarthropods, allof those good guys that make the
soil work.

(06:30):
So soil is a living thing.
And it is not dirt.
So soil and dirt are twodifferent things.
Unfortunately, most people'sgardens are dirt.
I do a lot of soil tests and Ifind a lot of death going on in
people's garden soils.
Meaning that these good microbesare not there.

(06:51):
And so that is a bad thing.
So the main thing is we get thegood microbes into the soil and
then we keep them alive.
And this becomes overwhelming topeople.
They're like, wait, what?
I just want a tomato.
Come on.
So, uh, but I'm all about thenutrition.
We'd need to have the mostnutritious food for our bodies

(07:13):
and our families.
So what we need to do is justfocus on.
Getting that soil to be superhealthy and happy.
And so I'm going to tell you howto do that.
And it's only going to take asecond because I know it sounds
overwhelming when we're talkingabout all these things, but it's
so easy.

Track 1 (07:31):
Can I pause you really quickly before we go into that?
So for those who are not sure ofthe link, the reason the healthy
soil is so important for growinga healthy plant is because the
plant is pulling everything thatit needs out of the soil.
If you're trying to grow soil,I'm sorry, if you're trying to
grow plants in like dead crapdirt, it doesn't have any

(07:53):
nutrients to bring up to put inits fruit.
So, the things that are in thesoil help it and the other
living things that are in thesoil help it break down, turn it
into the nutrients that theplant can use, which turns it
into nutrients that we can use.
So it's similar to in ourbodies, if we are eating empty
calories and they don't have alot of nutrients, then we can't

(08:15):
build our neurotransmitters.
Our immune system doesn't havewhat it needs.
All kinds of other things fail,even though we still look like a
human being.
We don't have the good buildingblocks we need.
Plants are the same.
They need the building blocksand they get those from the
soil.
So you can pour expensivefertilizers on it, which we're
taught with Miracle Gro and withother stuff.

(08:35):
But there are drawbacks to that,which William can go into
besides just that it costs alot.
But having a healthy soilalready gives the plants what it
needs.
So that's why he's saying that'sstep one in healthy food.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (08:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So the way that you actually dothis is feed the microbes and
put the microbes there.
So those are your two keys.
So what do microbes eat?
There are only two food sourcesfor the beneficial microbes.
And that, and see how easy thisis?
You only have to remember twothings.
So the first food for themicrobes is the decaying plant

(09:14):
material.
So old plants that are dying.
So this would be things likewood chips, or grass clippings,
or your compost pile that you'reputting around your plants.
So all of that is dead plantmaterial.
The second thing that plants eatis the exudates that come out of

(09:35):
the plant roots.
So the living plants put sugarsand proteins into the soil and
that's what we call an exudate.
So if you have living plants inyour garden as much as possible
and a layer of mulch on top ofany kind of organic matter then
that is the food source for yourplants.

(09:56):
And if that is all you do.
Then you will start to growreally healthy food and it's
easier to grow.
And there's a third thing youcan do that's really good.
Instead of isolating your plantsin different parts of the
garden, mix your plants up morelike a jungle so that you have
four plant families growingclose to each other so the roots

(10:18):
are touching.
So if you do those things youwill start growing really
fantastic food.

Track 1 (10:25):
That really is such a good summary that boiled it down
to exactly So if you haven'theard part one, I was ready to
give up on gardening.
I love plants.
I love healthy food, but I wasjust happy to pay someone else
to do it because every time Itried, all I seemed to grow was
like a garden that looked goodat first and then would get

(10:46):
overtaken with weeds.
I would run out of time to doit.
All the bugs would move in andthey would kill the harvest that
I spent all that money and allthat time putting in anyway.
It was depressing.
But I heard before the lastplanting season an interview
with you, William, and it boileddown to those three things.

(11:06):
So I did that.
I found healthy wood chips thatwere untreated.
and we did some of the otherthings that you'll talk about,
but I also started mixing up thegrowing.
I had never done that.
I grew in rows or I grew insquares or I grew whatever, but,
but the same plants by the sameplants.
I didn't want like strawberriesthat tasted like onions and I

(11:30):
figured if anything touched iteach other, it would be
terrible.
What I found was doing.
Just those three things, I, Iwent more into what you'll
teach, but those really were thebasics.
We now have just startedcovering whatever ground we can
with wood chips or leaves or oldstraw, and it's made a huge
difference.
Besides that, it's really fun.

(11:51):
It's kind of fun to hunt forcucumbers while you're munching
on a strawberry and reach up andgrab a bean while you're pulling
out some squash.
It's really fun.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Track 1 (12:04):
So once you give people the basics of the three things
to do, and I back you up onthat, where do you think is the
wisest thing to go from there?
Okay,

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-2 (12:18):
some things and just stand there long
enough so that you can take itin with your senses.
Look at it, listen to it smellit, feel it with your fingers.
You might even taste it, butthat one's a stretch for a lot
of people.
But it's just start to just withyour senses that you have with

(12:38):
your body.
Start to interact with yourgarden, with your soil, and see
if it has a message for you.
Now that can sound a littleesoteric and weird, but really
to become ecologically literate,which is what I teach my
students, is you need to be ableto communicate with the
environment around us.
So when you're standing in yourgarden, just feel it.

(13:03):
You know, for those of us whoare parents, when you have a
small child who's not old enoughto talk yet, We can quite often
tell, just by interacting withthem, if they need something.
Are, are they, are they sad?
Are they happy?
What are they feeling?
What do they need?
And sometimes it's veryintuitive and we can't really

(13:24):
explain it to somebody else,but, you know, a mother who
spends a lot of time with herchild, she just kind of knows
what to do to comfort thatchild.
And we can have the sameexperience with the land and the
garden.
And we need to have that kind ofa relationship and experience.
So, what you do, go out there,look at the land.
Is the ground bare?

(13:45):
Has it been tilled up?
Is the sun beating down on ithard?
Feel the ground.
Is it hot to the touch?
Um, if it is, then it's runninga fever.
So you need to cover it up withthat detritus sphere, that mulch
that I was talking about, thatorganic matter on top.
All right, thanks a lot.
You need to have that blanket onthe soil surface, so that it's

(14:07):
not running a fever anymore.
We don't want it to be dryingout.
If it's drying out and all themoisture is evaporating into the
air, then it is dehydrated.
It needs a drink of water.
Here again, putting on thatlayer of mulch on top of the
ground, helps it to retain themoisture so it doesn't get so

(14:27):
thirsty and dehydrated.
Just little things like that.
Start observing.
As your soil improves, yourplants will improve
exponentially, which isfantastic.
And that's exactly what we want,because the point is, we want a
beautiful arm load of ears ofcorn, or we want a bushel of
tomatoes, or cucumbers, orwhatever it is we're growing,

(14:51):
and we want those plants tothrive and be healthy, we want
them to taste good, and the bestway to do that is to not just
throw seeds out there and expectsomething, But to actually be
mindful during the process ofbeing in the garden.
And so it starts before we everplant a seed and we need to be

(15:15):
thinking about that soil, youknow, how does that soil smell?
Come get a shovel, dig in theground pull that hunk of soil
out.
Are you seeing earthworms?
Does it have a texture like adecadent chocolate cake?
Or is it falling apart?
And, and different soils aredifferent.
And they, you know, from, fromclimate to climate and region to

(15:38):
region, healthy soils will looksomewhat different.
But, but everywhere you shouldhave a soil that kind of it's
going to have air holes in it.
It should have like the pores inthe soil.
It should not be tight andcompacted like a mud pie.

(16:00):
Remember when you were 12 yearsold or 8 years old, whatever,
and making mud pies out in a mudpile?
And then two or three days lateryou pick it up and it's hard as
a rock?
If your soil feels like that,it's not healthy.
It needs to be soft.
It needs to be supple and itneeds to have lots of air holes
in it.
You should be seeing a lot ofearthworms.

(16:21):
So those are the types of thingsyou're looking at that you want.
Thank you.

Track 1 (16:26):
earthworms and air holes, and you want it to be
sort of clumping together,

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (16:33):
Yeah.

Track 1 (16:34):
And not falling through your fingers.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01 (16:38):
Right.

Track 1 (16:38):
so what I had and what I've seen others, I live in the
high mountain desert, so mostpeople that I know have either a
lot of clay in their soils.
Or, it's like dirt, I didn'tknow the difference, but it's
like fill dirt, like on aconstruction fill dirt pile, it
felt like coughing dry as abone.

(16:58):
There was nothing living, therewas definitely no earthworms.
You said that we neededearthworms, and you also talk
about arthropods, nematodes,that means people, he is saying
that like, the creepy crawlies.
are good in there.
Mine had nothing alive, so thatwasn't it.
But tell me what, I want to hearmore what a soil should look

(17:21):
like.
So tell me about the layers thatif your soil was healthy and
thriving, what it would looklike from the plant on top all
the way down to the bottom.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (17:31):
Okay.
Yeah.

Track 1 (17:33):
if it, what to do if it doesn't

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (17:35):
Okay.
Perfect.
Yeah.
So there, there are these, thesesix spheres of the soil is what
we like to call them.
And the first sphere is thephylosphere.
Phylo just means plant.
That's just the scientific nameof the plant.
So the phyllosphere is the areaaround the plant where it's
growing leaves.
So this is up out of the soil.

(17:57):
This is what you see when youlook outside.
And you can see grass on theground.
You see a great big giant tree.
Wherever you see leaves, you'reseeing the phyllosphere.
So what does that have to dowith the soil?
Well it actually has a lot to doit, to do with it.
And it's fascinating becauseeverything in the soil is
functioning Because of themicrobes that live in the soil,

(18:23):
the bacterial life, the fungallife, the protozoa life.
Now, this philo sphere, thereason we call it part of the
soil spheres, even though it'sthe leaves above, is'cause on
the leaf surface, they arecovered with beneficial
microbes.
Now they, they aren't alwayscovered, but they should be in a

(18:46):
healthy ecosystem.
The leaves are covered with alot of very beneficial bacteria
and fungus, and we want that.
The fascinating thing, theycommunicate with the microbes
that are down in the root zoneunder the ground.

(19:08):
And we don't even know how theydo that.
But, you know, it is cool.
It's the neatest thing.
So we know that it happens, butwe don't really know how.
Maybe they have miniature cellphones.
I don't know,

Track 1 (19:19):
We are just surrounded by life that is communicating
all around us.
It's so neat.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-20 (19:25):
so, so when you walk out on the
ground, what you're stepping onwould be the detri stratosphere.
That's the next layer down.
If you're walking on a lawn,you're actually walking on the
Philos fare, which would bethat, that leaf surface of the
lawn, but right under that,where you have dead.
Decaying organic matter, soleaves that have fallen off and
they're starting to decay.

(19:45):
Or a mulch, if you're a gardenerand you've put mulch down.
That's going to be called thedetritosphere.
Detritus simply means trash.
So it's the trash layer on topof the soil.
And like I mentioned earlier,this is important because it
feeds the soil microbes.
And it insulates the ground fromtoo much sunlight, too much
cold.

(20:06):
And it keeps the moisture in theground.
Thank you.
So the detritus sphere does alot of important things.
The next layer you're going tobe looking at, and when you dig
down and you pull that shovelfull out, you'll be seeing the
aggregates and we call that theagrotosphere.
So that's the, all the littleclumps of dirt that have been
glued together in little tinyballs, just like little tiny

(20:29):
specks of dirt.
And there's the microaggregates.
They're so little you need amicroscope to see them.
And then you have the macroaggregates, which are the big
ones.
That are the, the big coarsepieces that make it give it,
give it a chocolate cake typetexture.
And then the spaces between theaggregates are all the pores.

(20:50):
We call that the porosphere.
So that would be that next soilsphere.
That fourth one.
And the pores are importantbecause when it rains or when
you water your garden, The waterwill go down through all of
those pores, and that's how itgets into the ground.
It's how the water gets inthere.
And then when you stop watering,gravity keeps pulling the water

(21:13):
downward, and it goes down,down, down, and then what's
coming in after the water?
The water acts like a plunger ina syringe, and when you pull on
that syringe, it pulls airthrough that porosphere, And
oxygen is our number onenutrient in the soil.
And so that's why it's importantto water.

(21:34):
And then you don't water for awhile.
If you water everyday, you'llget too waterlogged.
So it's important to waterright, so that you get a lot of
air pulled into the ground.
And that keeps all thesemicrobes healthy and happy.
And it makes your roots growfantastic.
So you get good, good roots.
And, and the roots is actuallythe next sphere of the soil.

(21:56):
And we call that therhizosphere.
So you should see a lot of rootsin there.
And the last sphere would be thedrillosphere.
And that's the holes that aredrilled by large animals like an
earthworm.
Or other bugs.

Track 1 (22:14):
That's so cool.
I feel like you're justpreaching good news, truthfully,
for people who live in placesthat either get very little
rain, or just a barrage of rainand then none.
Because you're saying if we havethe right things in the soil and
those air pockets and the bigdrill holes I'll think of, then

(22:35):
we can actually keep the waterthat comes into our soil and it
won't just run off like it doeswith the clay dirt crap that is
so common in the deserts whereso many of us are trying to
garden.
So being able to hold that waterthat protects us from flooding,
that brings our water bill down,that helps us, you know, stay

(22:55):
out of famines, that's beautifulinformation.
And it's kind of fun to thinkabout, you know, the little army
of creatures making all of thesetunnels that can hold our water.
Like we're working together,makes them not so gross.
Ha ha ha ha

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (23:13):
do think about bugs that way.
We're like, ooh, there's a bunchof bugs.
Ooh, what do I do?
Yeah.
Oh, I got my plants here.
I'm trying to grow something.
Look at all these bugs.
Okay, here's the

Track 1 (23:21):
that I've worked so hard for.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (23:23):
Yeah.
and here's the thing.
If you have a lot of bugs,that's actually a fantastic
thing.
And the thing, the question Iget, like, all the time is, how
do I know the difference betweenthe good bugs and the bad bugs?
The simple answer is, go toGoogle and look up the bugs you
see, and, and you can startlearning.
That's the simple answer, butit's not the best answer.

(23:45):
Really?
You're asking the wrongquestion.
Because there aren't any badbugs.
So if people want to know thedifference between the good and
the bad, that tells me, okay, wehave to do some education here.
All bugs are good.
It's just that if you have toomany of a certain group of bugs,
then they're probably going tobe eating your plants.

(24:07):
So we need to have a balance.
And if your plants are superhealthy, they're going to only
eat the old, dying, decayingleaves.
So, you know, if, if you have,say, a cabbage out there, and
it's covered with all thoselittle green worms, then your
cabbage is not healthy.
Even though it may be growing abig cabbage, then the proteins
and the sugars are not highenough in those leaves, and, and

(24:31):
so it's not a healthy plant.
Because when you have highproteins, high sugars in your
plant's leaves, the bugs don'teat them.
And it's, I mean, I've knownthis for a long time, but it's
interesting, because when I saythis to people, it's always
news.
I mean, this is not commonknowledge.
Everybody's always surprisedwhen I say that.
And they're like, well, wait aminute.

(24:52):
I have five acres of this andthat.
And the bugs always come in.
And it's interesting and kind offunny in a way how many people
get defensive about it.
Because we work so hard at ourfarms and in our gardens that we
automatically assume that theplants are healthy.
But working hard doesn'tnecessarily make us healthy.

(25:15):
We have to do the right thing.
We could work really hard atdrinking lots of soda pops and
alcohols and all sorts of thingsthat are not very healthy for
us.
So working hard doesn't equalhealth.
And it's the same with ourgardens.
We need to be doing the rightthings to create plant health.

Track 1 (25:34):
And the right things based on science that's coming
out.
I know I've heard you talkbefore about growing up in a
environment where you had familymentors teaching you how to do
things kind of old school waycomposting and mixing up things,
and then went to school andlearned the collegiate way of

(25:55):
growing and they were two verydifferent things.
And your analysis, as far as Iunderstand, is that the old
school way was smarter andscience is now starting to show
why, that when we took it intothe industrial age and started
just adding inputs andfertilizers, we, we robbed some
of the ancient traditions thatwere nourishing the land.

(26:15):
Am I correct in rememberingthat?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (26:17):
Oh yeah, for sure.
That was perfect.
Yeah.
I mean, You know, the wholeconventional modern agriculture
is a nightmare, you know, and,and I can say that without
judgment because I am one ofthose people, but I have changed
my ways, and I'm doing it theway that I grew up as a child,

(26:37):
and it's working, but now weknow why it's working because of
some of the fantasticresearchers out there.
You know, the, the ElaineInhams, the Ray Archuletas, the
The Alejandro Carrillo's, allthe people out there who have
done the great research, now weknow why it works.
So it's pretty awesome.

Track 1 (26:59):
So going back to the question of pests, because I
think that.
was one of my biggest mindsetchanges was that seeing the bugs
doesn't necessarily mean my foodsupply is threatened by these
stupid bugs that I need to kill.
It's asking myself why they arethere.

(27:19):
And, if the plant is healthier,if it's putting more, like you
said, proteins and sugars in,not only does it taste better to
me and have more nutrition, butit tastes worse to the bugs
because they eat the dead stuff.
When I understood that, Ithought, okay, so if they are
on, So, I did what you said, andI planted a variety of like

(27:43):
four, four plant familiestouching.
But that means that I had plantsin different areas in different
grow beds, right?
And so, say I had four tomatoplants, I had them in four very
different locations.
One thrived, one did meh, andone did not do great.
It just like never seemed toTurned to red tomatoes until

(28:06):
lately and I know and until theend of the season and now I know
more about what what othernutrients may have been in or
not in the soil, but My questionmy my perspective then after
your training was not I can'tgrow tomatoes These stupid
things and it was the weather'sfault and it was the tomato bugs

(28:28):
fault It was what is happeningwith this?
You plant.
So I noticed where bugs werecrawling on the ones that, that
were not doing well, and therewere no bugs on the ones that
were doing well.
It, it kind of changed myquestion into what is in the
soil that they need or don'tneed.
And it's telling me that it'sthriving here, but it's not

(28:50):
thriving here.
So I could be more scientificabout it and look at The
differences in where each wasplanted, or what strain it was,
instead of it just going tofailure or chance.
And that felt so much moreempowering for me.
You talk about beingecologically literate, and I
think the more literate we arein looking at what's happening
in our plants, it changes thequestions we ask, and when we

(29:12):
change the questions we ask,then we at least know where to
go to, to improve our outcomes.
So if you are finding thatthere's bugs all over, that can
be because your plants are nothealthy.
And if you're noticing that,what are some things that you
would begin to check if you'retrying to be more ecologically
literate?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (29:33):
Okay.
So, you know, if you have aproblem, the best thing to do
from an ecological point of viewis make the problem bigger.
And then that solves yourproblem.

Track 1 (29:46):
Explain that William.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-0 (29:48):
exactly right.
So if you see bugs that arehurting a plant, then we
automatically think in our mind,oh my goodness, these bugs are
the problem.
So just step back, take a deepbreath, and bring in more bugs.
Because there's not a predatorthere keeping the bug that's

(30:11):
eating your plant in check.
So, you need more life in yourgarden.
My entire life all the gardeningbooks all the gardening classes
I shouldn't say all but prettymuch all of them really have
said here's how we kill stuff Wedon't want and that is the
mindset of modern agriculture Ifthere's things we don't want

(30:35):
then let's kill it and now we'rein a situation where our soils
are dead we've done a reallygood job killing and and Let's
change that entire paradigm andsay, How much life can I invite
into my entire ecosystem?
Whether I have a backyard or ifI have a 20, 000 acre ranch.

(30:59):
You know, whatever you'remanaging, whatever land you're
managing, invite as much life aspossible and nature will balance
itself.
Now, not completely.
You don't just go out there andinvite all the life in.
There are some other steps youneed to do, but that is
certainly a mindset we need tohave.

Track 1 (31:21):
bringing in more earthworms bringing in, What
else would you bring in besidesearthworms?
That's all

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (31:27):
Yeah, yeah, so,

Track 1 (31:29):
as life goes.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (31:31):
First of all, you need to have, you
need to have all those microbesgroups.
Let me just tell them to youagain.
There's bacteria, fungus,protozoa, nematodes,
microarthropods, enchatreads,macroarthropods, and earthworms.
So those are all the life thatyou need in the soil.
So how do you get them?
Well, we can't even see most ofthose because they're

(31:51):
microscopic.
So you feed them.
If you feed something, it tendsto show up in the ecosystem.
So if you are covering the soilwith a detrio sphere, there's a
food source.
If you're growing plants in yoursoil, there's the second food
source.
And if you're watering your yourarea, your garden, then they

(32:13):
have water.
Now they have everything theyneed to build a home and work
for you.
And within a decade, you willhave a functioning soil because
you have maintained a foodsource.
Here's what we do to ruin that ffood source.
We till the soil.
And everybody got, you know, weall get out there in the
springtime with our rototillers,we till up the soil, and that

(32:37):
takes away our detritusphere,and it kills all the living
plants, and then we start over.
And it makes way too muchbacteria grow, because the
bacteria is stimulated by thetillage, and so now we have too
much of a good thing, becausethe bacteria grows so much, and
when the bacteria grows a lot,now they are letting off a lot

(33:01):
of Nitrogen in that soil, whichwill sprout all of the weed
seeds that we don't want.
So it becomes a vicious cycle.
So,

Track 1 (33:10):
we till because there's weeds and hard earth, right?
And then that makes more weedsand harder earth because we've
killed all the things that makeit soft.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-2 (33:20):
yes.
So, one tillage pass across thegarden can kill up to 50 percent
of our beneficial fungus.
Now, it's interesting because,because two passes doesn't kill
100%.
So it's kind of exponential in abackwards sort of way, but it's
still, uh, I mean, fungus is oneof the most important things in

(33:44):
the soil to help our plantsgrow.
So, you know, really help.

Track 1 (33:51):
highlight fungus for a minute?
Can you remind me what it doesand why we want it in our soil?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (33:58):
Okay.

Track 1 (33:59):
that if I see mushrooms growing, that means I'm watering
too much and I should back itoff and yank those mushrooms out
so fungus didn't take over.
Or even when I called to ordermy wood chips, the guy that did
the wood chips said, you know,lots of gardeners put this on
there, but that promotes fungusand you don't want that.
This was, this was last yearwhile I was doing it.
So can we highlight what doesfungus do

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (34:20):
Okay.
So

Track 1 (34:21):
if it's too much

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (34:22):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, good, good point.
Good conversation.
This is very important.
First of all, there are twotypes of fungus.
There are the good funguses, andwe have thousands of species.
And there are the bad fungus,and there are thousands of
species.
All of your good fungus live inaerobic, highly oxygenated

(34:46):
soils.
All of the bad ones live inanaerobic, compacted soils.
Tool to compact your soil?
It's the rotor tiller.

Track 1 (34:57):
Just backwards.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (34:58):
It

Track 1 (34:59):
what we are taught.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (35:01):
So you know, we till right now and
it makes it nice and soft, so wethink it's good.
But that's an immediatereaction.
But over time, it breaks up allthe soil aggregates, it
collapses the porosphere, oxygencan't get into the soil.
The aerobic.
Uh, fungus dies, and theanaerobic fungus begins to grow.

(35:26):
And so now you have a diseasedsoil, and then you have a garden
expert, whoever comes in andsays, Oh yeah, you have all this
bad fungus, you need to spraywith a fungicide.
So you do that, and it kills allthe bad fungus, and all the good
fungus that could have beenthere.
And so now we are on our road toa really unhealthy garden.

(35:49):
Disastrous desertificationprocess in our own gardens.
The other thing that fungus doesthat is really great, is fungus
is the biggest living organism.
We used to believe that the bluewhale was the biggest organism,
and then we thought that it wasa, a quaking aspen tree that was
the size of an entire forest.
But Now we have discovered thatthe biggest organism on Earth,

(36:10):
is is a fungus and it's 10 mileswide and 20 miles long and it's
microscopic.
So that's mind blowing

Track 1 (36:20):
That is mind blowing.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-0 (36:23):
fungus, they have very long threads and
it looks kind of like a spiderweb except they're so thin.
They're much thinner than aspider web because you can't see
them.
It takes a microscope to seethem.
So if you think of a telephonepole, it's pretty big around and
it's really long.
Well, think of a rope.
It could be that same length,but it's still little.

(36:44):
Now think of a fishing twine.
And you put it out theresomewhere, a hundred yards away,
and you can unroll it forhundreds of yards, but you can't
see it from back here.
Now go down smaller to a coupleof hundred times thinner than
that fishing twine, but still aslong, so we have a structure

(37:04):
that's extremely long, but it'smicroscopic.
Stop it.
And that's how it can be thebiggest organism we know of on
Earth.
And one individual, I'm nottalking about a group of these
guys, one particular individualorganism, and it's huge.

(37:24):
But think about this inrelationship.
Here's the practical part of whythat's important.
If we get good fungus growing inour gardens, then we have a
plant that's growing, And it'sroot zone, say it goes about two
feet deep and maybe two feetwide.
So you have this nice littleplace where all the roots are.
And those roots are supposed tobring in nutrients for that

(37:45):
plant.
If the roots can't get anutrient, let's just say iron.
You're in Iron County, which isfunny because I know that a lot
of, a lot of plants there, theydon't they can't get iron.
A lot of the soils there haveiron chlorosis problems.
Yeah.
So, let's just say you're aniron deficient.

(38:06):
So, here's the role of a fungus.
A fungus hyphae, and that's justthe little strand of fungus, it
will hook itself to a root onyour plant.
But, remember how long it is?
It can go out hundreds of feet,hundreds of yards away.
It can even go under the roadinto your neighbor's yard or

(38:27):
whatever because they can travela long distance.
And they can pick up iron wherethey are and they will bring the
iron through that microscopicnetwork to your plant and feed
your plant.
And

Track 1 (38:41):
cool.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (38:43):
yeah, so we don't have to have we
don't have to have all thenutrients right there in a
fertilizer.
What we need to have are theliving, active microbes that
will help our plants grow.
I mean, think about theredwoods.
It's one of the most productivesoils in the world.
Those plants in the redwoods areso massive and huge, that if,

(39:07):
if, if, there have, there havebeen scientists who have done
studies on the redwoods, andwhat they've showed is that they
produce more calories per acrethan any other soils in the
world.
Now it's not calories like food,there's not much human food
there to eat, But just in ameasurement of energy.

(39:29):
So, take a, just take acornfield in the Midwest that's
producing over 300 bushels percorn.
Well that produced a lot ofcalories with modern farming.
But it didn't even come close towhat's happening in the
redwoods.
But think about it, there's nofarmer in the redwoods.
The redwoods have been doingthat for thousands of years.
It started in the last ice age,whenever the ice went away.

(39:51):
And we know that there's treesthere that are thousands of
years old.
So, how is that happeningwithout a human there?
Because nobody's there with therototiller, nobody's there with
their, all the products theybought from Home Depot, nobody's
out there with their hoe, hoeingweeds around the redwood trees
and all the big beautiful fernsthat are growing in the
understory.
It just happens.

(40:11):
It's working.
It works.
Mother Nature works.
So in our agriculture, what weought to be doing is just
mimicking nature.
And that's pretty mucheverything I teach.
If it works really well inMother Nature, then let's have
it work in our garden.

Track 1 (40:31):
Which basically means have a variety of plants at
different heights growing toabsorb the sun or also to
protect others from the sun.
Have different types of plantfamilies.
Let the stuff that falls on theground stay on the ground.
Don't spray any sides on it,pesticides or herbicides, so the
soil, the microbes in the soilcan continue to live and thrive

(40:53):
and eat the stuff that is comingdown from the dead stuff or eat
the, I remember someone in oneof your classes called the
exudates, the plant sweat, sothe root sweat, that feeds the
bugs and let them make theecosystem that then can grow
plants.
That's,

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (41:12):
Yeah.

Track 1 (41:12):
to think about anyway.

squadcaster-861f_2_02- (41:14):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, it just works.
So why are we doing all thesecrazy things?
Well, because scientists like tobe in their laboratory figuring
things out, you know?
And that's a good thing.
I'm not criticizing that.
At all.
It's just that if we want tohave the very best, most
nutritious food, then we We'rekind of limited on where we can
get it and growing our owngardens is a fantastic place

Track 1 (41:38):
Yeah.
How do you know if you have toomuch fungus?
So you talked about aerobic andanaerobic, and I like how I
heard you explain it in a classwhich was that aerobic stuff
smells nice.
Like it smells like the earth,like you're, it's, it is a
pleasant smell.
It doesn't smell like.
A construction zone.

(41:58):
It doesn't smell like an oldcompost bag like I opened up
either.
So, smells terrible.
It's like pleasant and sort ofearthy and, and grounded.
Anaerobic, you said, smellsnasty.
Like there's a part of you thatknows you don't want to eat that
stuff and it doesn't smell good.
That's how most of the compostI've ever made has turned out

(42:19):
smelling, which is why I startedattending your classes because I
wasn't really making compost, Iwas making sludge.
You talk about the healthyfungus will grow in aerobic,
unhealthy will grow inanaerobic.
What was the guy that I got thetree shredded stuff talking
about?
That fungus that you can seegrowing on the trees that you

(42:42):
lay down in the detritus sphere.
Is that what we want?
Is that not what we want?
How do we know if it's too much?
Okay,

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-20 (42:53):
You got to realize that I don't know
like 99 percent of people outthere.
They simply don't know a lot ofthese things This is new
information.
A lot of this information isjust you know in the last 10
years is when we've discovered alot of the things that we've
been talking about today.
So, we need to, we need to beforgiving of people when they

(43:14):
make statements like that.
Because yeah, there's certainlybad fungus that can kill your
plants.
But if you have a pile of woodchips, wood chips are very
aerated.
They're very oxygenated.
So anything that's going to begrowing out of a pile of wood
chips is going to be the goodfungus putting woodchips around
your plants is never going to bea bad thing.
It's not really going to killyour plants.

(43:35):
Now, if you put woodchips aroundyour plants and then they die
from a bad, bad fungus, that'sbecause you didn't have good
soil underneath where you wereputting the woodchips.
It wasn't the woodchips fault.
It was a, it was a pre existingcondition.
So you need to keep adding thewoodchips and, and the other
things, you know, other compostmaterials for, and it usually
takes three, four, five years.

(43:56):
for that soil to really getgood.
So in the first couple of years,yeah, you're probably going to
run into some problems, but it'snot because you're putting on
food for these good aerobicmicrobes.

Track 1 (44:08):
Okay.
So let's talk about compost andsome of the other stuff that you
put on a soil to help it thrive.
I would like to know what thedifference is between a healthy
living compost, or if you wereto just put like I've heard
people say to just put bananapills out in the garden and I
heard other people say, don'tjust put banana pills, that'll

(44:30):
attract all the bugs and that'snot compost anyway.
And I've heard some people say,skip the annoying part of
composting and just go to yourlocal farmer, get manure, mix it
in.
So can you explain to me, who'sjust heard a lot of different
things, what the difference isbetween those and why one may be

(44:50):
more healthy than the other?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (44:52):
Okay, so any, any kind of a food scrap
should be decomposed completelybefore it goes on your garden.
Okay.
So you do want to compost thatbefore it goes out there.
That's a good idea because inthe early stages of the
decomposition, There could besome certain creatures, you
know, bacterias or fungus thatis attracted when it first

(45:15):
starts to break down that couldactually spread to some of your
plants and cause an issue.

Track 1 (45:21):
Okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (45:22):
So you don't want to just put food
that is just beginning todecompose right out there.
As far as getting manure from afarmer, it's the same thing.
You need to compost that also.

Track 1 (45:37):
Hmm.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (45:38):
if you put fresh manure on, it's
the same thing as your kitchenscraps.
You know, there could be issueswith that.
Now, if you want to put, if youdon't want to go through the,
what you said was the annoyingpart of composting, then, then,
what you would do to skip thatis in the fall of the year, when

(45:59):
you know the garden is done,you're done harvesting
everything.
You could take a large amount ofthat material.
And you can spread it out on topof your garden and let it
decompose throughout the winter.
Because, you know, you're goingto have four, five, six months,
depending on your climate, wherethat can begin to decompose when
it's not in the growing season.

(46:19):
So that's a good way to add thatdetritusphere to the soil
surface.

Track 1 (46:24):
Okay, so just manure, kitchen scraps, and, and in the
winter and call it good.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (46:32):
Yeah.

Track 1 (46:33):
amongst the other leaves and wood chips that we've
put out there while it'sresting.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (46:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, here's the thing thatalways happens.
Because that's the scenario Itell people all the time.
And they always come back to mewith this question.
So I'll just go ahead and answerit now because people are going
to be wondering, they'll say,well, yeah, but we're producing
kitchen scraps every day when wecook.
So, you know, a big family, theyhave a five gallon bucket of
kitchen scraps once a week orwhatever.

(46:59):
What do we do with all that?
Well, you're going to have tohave a little bit different
system.
You'll have to have a systemwhere you're continually
composting.
Um, there, there is a thing thatI tell people, I don't know that
anybody's ever done this, but itwould actually work.
But it's not that practical.
But if you saved your kitchenscraps and put them in a freezer
so they don't start todecompose.

(47:21):
And then when you have a bigbunch of it, like 10, five
gallon buckets, see how it's notreally practical, but this would
really work well if people woulddo it.
Uh, and so you take thatmaterial and then you compost it
all at once.
And it actually makes afantastic compost.
And so people who have a compostas a business and they're, and

(47:42):
they're doing that, it would bemore appropriate for them than
maybe the home gardener.

Track 1 (47:47):
So I heard an old farmer talk once when I was
sitting next to him at a classactually learning compost.
He said that what they had beendoing for a very long time is
they would just pick a plot intheir, in their land that they
weren't going to garden on thatyear.
And they would put their kitchenscraps and whatever manure or

(48:07):
whatever there to just sort oflike sit through the year.
But it was like a mix of.
New and whatever was there froma couple months ago, and they
would just let that sit for ayear or two and then cycle back
and use that so he didn't haveto watch the temperature or let
it marinate or whatever.
What are the pros and cons ofthat if you had just an area
where you tossed it and didn'tthink about it?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (48:30):
Okay, so it all really comes back to
the definition of compost.
So if you're just going to putit out there and do it the way
you just explained that thefarmer said, that's fine, but
you're not making compost.
What you're doing is you're justadding organic matter to the
soil that will eventually beused up by the microbes in the
soil.
And so that's fine.

(48:51):
It's a good thing to do.
It's better than fillinglandfills with that material.
So it's a fine thing.
But it's not compost.
So what is compost?
Compost is a specific set ofmaterials with a specific recipe
so that you can multiply andgrow the beneficial bacteria and

(49:13):
the beneficial fungus.
So that you can introduce thoseto land that does not have the
beneficials.
So that's kind of thedifference.

Track 1 (49:24):
So it's an inoculant, basically.
Like, you put it in where youwant to grow now, or where you
want to grow in the future, toget them to start propagating.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (49:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's kind of like somebody says,I want to be a cattle rancher.
And so they get they get 10acres and then they put hay out
there and they put a watertrough and they fill up the
water and they go back in a yearto round up the cows.
I'm like, man, there's no cowshere and nobody ate the hay.
Well, you never introduced thecattle to the pasture.

(49:54):
And, and so, so putting, puttingthe compost material, the
kitchen scraps, whatever, onto apiece of land and just letting
it decompose naturally is kindof like that.
We didn't get the correctspecies into the land.
All we did is we got the foodonto the land.

Track 1 (50:15):
Okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01 (50:17):
making a proper compost is growing the
herd of cattle so that we havethe cattle to put in the
pasture.

Track 1 (50:25):
Well, and this is how, then, if there's been soils,
that have not been producing.
This is how we get the goodstuff into the soil that can
then eat the stuff and have itstart producing.
So this is the really good news.
If you know your garden has beenstruggling or the land around
you is not thriving andbeautiful already, then you have

(50:45):
to start the species growing andthat's what compost does.
Okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-20 (50:50):
And that's what the inoculant is
because you're introducing thosespecies.

Track 1 (50:54):
okay.
So before I met you, When Istarted to learn about compost,
even though it was scary to walkaround in the feed and farm
store and look at what the pricewas going to be of the
fertilizers I needed to buy, andthe bone meal I needed to buy,
and then the compost I needed tobuy.
I thought, okay, well I'm gonnaput into this something good so

(51:17):
I'm gonna get the best kind ofcompost that I can in this bag.
And almost every bag that Iopened up smelled terrible, but
I just put it all over my gardenand thought, well, this is just
what compost does, I guess.
Can you, it didn't go well.
But can you tell me the pros andcons of that?
Because I know compost is ahuge, Market.

(51:37):
And if, if people don't knowhow, or have had bad experiences
growing compost, you tell me thepros and cons of buying it.
And then maybe a different wayto look at making your own
compost or some resources orplaces that we can go.
Okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (51:55):
of compost or potting soil from the
store And it smells bad.
The reason it smells bad isbecause of the anaerobic disease
causing organisms that areliving in it.
That's why it smells bad.
And so when you say you put thaton your garden and then it

(52:16):
didn't go well, that's becauseyou were adding all of the bad
guys.
And unfortunately, that is avery common thing that happens.
We make the assumption that thatif we go to the store and we buy
a product in a bag, that it'sgoing to be good for our garden

(52:37):
when we take it home and put iton there.
And unfortunately, that's nottrue.
And I'm really sorry.
I hate to be the guy who bearsthe bad news, but that is the
reality of the world we live in.
It's kind of like going to thegrocery store.
We assume that if someone'sselling food, then it's healthy.
But I think we all know that ifwe choose the wrong things, it's

(53:00):
certainly unhealthy.
So, so where do we get the,where can we get good compost?
And I don't have a good answerfor you.
You, you, you, you need to makeit yourself.

(53:20):
That's why I wrote my book.
It's why I teach my classes.
It's why I started my school.
Is because I saw this bigsocietal need.
That we have this perceptionthat, oh, let's just go buy the
stuff, except when we buy it, itdoesn't help us.
So you know, we need to haveprofessional people in each

(53:41):
community.
We already have doctors, wealready have lawyers, we already
have accountants in eachcommunity so that families have
resources, but we don't haveprofessional farmers producing
food.
We don't have professional.
Compost makers making compostfor people's gardens.
So there is a huge market.

(54:03):
lot of people could go into thatand they could get really good
at it.
So that when you, when you pickup a handful of that compost and
you smell it, you should besmelling pretty much nothing.
If you have just, it's just aninert, there's no smell.
That means it's highlyoxygenated.
If it smells beautiful like aforest floor and it smells

(54:25):
really good, that's a good thingtoo, like you already mentioned
earlier.
But, unfortunately, usuallywe're opening those bags of
stuff and it's not pleasant.
So,

Track 1 (54:40):
different, well, seen in action two different methods.
So one that I have tried andfailed at, but my sister has
tried and seems to be workingreally well, are those kind of
spinners that you have that areblack and you have one section
where you're putting freshscraps in and maybe an equal
balance of shredded paper orleaves and then the other side.

(55:02):
Where you aren't puttinganything fresh in and you're
just hoping that it marinatesand you water it when it gets a
little Dry and you move forwardfrom there.
It has never made anything butbugs and nasty or dry nothing
for me But she does get thatlike sort of good smelling

(55:23):
clumpy dark Composty things soI've seen that can you tell us
the pros and cons of that andthen tell us just the basics.
I know for more information inyour book, you do a step by
step, but the basics of how youcreate it when you create it so
that it's ready for gardeningthat season.
And then, you know, how mucheffort it, it really takes in

(55:45):
for how long.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (55:46):
yeah,

Track 1 (55:47):
more effort, but not, but not a long time.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (55:50):
yeah.
So, pros and cons of composttumblers.
The pros are they're neat,they're efficient, they kind of
keep things tidy in one's yard.
Those are the pros.
the cons of the compost, Tumblris they don't really make a
compost because they don't growthe right organisms just because

(56:13):
you're turning them all thetime.
And so you are reducing thewaste.
You will have detritus in theend to put on, but it, you're
not growing.
the right amount of fungus to goonto your garden, which you
want.
And that's the main purpose ofcompost is to grow that high
fungal content.

(56:35):
The reason they don't grow thefungus in quantity is because
every time you tumble it, itpulls it apart and breaks it up.
And remember that these thingsare very long.
They can go hundreds of yards,which we've talked about.
So every time you turn it, itbreaks that fungal hyphae.
And so then they have to startover to grow again.

(56:55):
So, I don't recommend composttumblers to people.

Track 1 (57:01):
okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-20 (57:01):
The way that I make compost is I
will make a big pile, like fourfeet across and about five feet
high.
And then, I, I, there's aprocess of turning it, and when
it heats up to certaintemperatures, we will turn it.
And then, and so you'll turn itfor maybe five, six weeks.
And then it stops heating upjust because the bacteria runs

(57:24):
out of the food that makes it,makes them grow quickly.
And so that's why it stopsheating up.
At that point you want it to sitfor about a year.
And that's when this wholecompost pile will be filled with
that fungal hyphae.
It takes it a year to, for allthose little fungal hyphae, all

(57:46):
those strands.
to grow like a spider webthroughout that entire batch of
compost.
And then you have a very largeamount of biomass of the
beneficial fungus that's inthere.
And then you take it apart andyou can make an extract so that
you can pour it on your garden.
You could put the extract in atractor, in a, in a sprayer and

(58:10):
spray it on, you know, hundredsof acres.
You could water your houseplantswith it, whatever.
Or you could just take thecompost and put it on your
garden like a quarter of an inchthick along the, on the surface.
So there's different ways to useit.
But the entire point of makingcompost is to grow that fungus.

(58:31):
It, you know, the bacteria isvery important too, but it's
pretty easy to get bacteria intoyour garden.
You know, you put six inches ofmulch out there, and like grass
clippings or whatever, and thebacteria is going to come in
there, it's going to colonize,you've got it.
But your soil still isn'tfunctioning because your fungal
content isn't there.

(58:51):
Fungus is the tricky one.
So that's why you make thecompost, is to grow the fungus.
Heh, yeah.

Track 1 (59:01):
at first so it doesn't overheat and turn on and
combust.
But then when it's sittingthere, the conditions are right
that it can grow that fungus youwant.
So you really are doing it nowfor next year's garden.
Okay, so now we're at the crux.
What do you do if you want togrow a healthy garden now, but
you didn't start a year ago?

(59:22):
So We need to find someone inour neighborhoods that is
growing compost or dot dot dot

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (59:32):
Okay, just get started.
Don't worry so much about thisyear.
Think long term and say, okay, Idon't have a person who's a
compost expert, so I'm gonna bethe compost expert.
Or you get a group of people andone of you become that.
So what do you do right now thisyear?

(59:54):
Just get started.
Do the best you can and realizethat in the next five years,
it's gonna get better everyyear.
So that's exciting.
I mean, you know, you startedwith pretty bad soil and you,
you, what did you do?
You covered the soil, you mixedup your plantings so that you
had different plant familieswhose roots were touching, and

(01:00:16):
you saw results in the firstyear.
And they were tasting prettygood, which means it's working.
So it may not be as good as it'sever going to get the first
year, but as you continue to dothis, it gets better and better.
It usually maxes out to whereyour soil is really great,
somewhere in the three to fiveyear range.

Track 1 (01:00:37):
Okay, I have a couple questions and then we'll move on
to our to our last subject Whichis you do have a potting soil
mix that I?
Really like but before I move onone thing I did because I knew I
didn't have compost as youtalked about You was I went to
the farmer's market and foundsomeone that had worm castings
that had done a worm bin.

(01:00:59):
We had tried worm bins in thepast and not had a great job
with it, but we got to ask youour worm questions and ask this
other guy our worm questions.
And we ended up making kind ofan inoculation tea out of the
worm castings and then have beendoing a worm bin through the
winter.
And I'm excited to see Whatthat's going to do because I ran

(01:01:19):
out of time last year by the endof the season and didn't make
the compost So I'm kind of inthe same No compost stage for
year two as I was for year one,but I have a lot of other things
set So I love your take on youdon't have to wait to start
until it's all perfect.
My husband and I were standingWhere exactly where we ended up

(01:01:39):
doing a garden and he hasstudied about permaculture and
regeneration for years But he Helearns, and the more he learns,
the more he learns we don'tknow, and we don't have this
shit, and we don't have thisshit.
So it doesn't start as he'sgathering, and I am a starter
that doesn't, that finds what Idon't have and has to work a way

(01:02:01):
around it.
He would, he would know a betterway to do it, but doesn't start,
and I start without the betterway.
So this year, we decided to teamup.
And I remember standing in, on,on the area where we were going
to garden and him saying, but wedon't have this.
And me looking at him andsaying, I am starting and I will
do this, we'll do this with yourhelp and your inputs and

(01:02:22):
imperfectly or just not ever doit.
What if we just, what if we juststart year one?
We don't have compost.
We don't have the other stuff.
We don't have all the rightwatering things, but what if we
just start?
And just that start.
was so fun.
And then having him be able toapply all the things that he had
learned made it way moresuccessful than if I would have

(01:02:44):
done it on my own.
So the worm bin I think reallyhelped, but correct me here if
that's wrong.
Was that like a good thing to doin the interim, but still I
probably need to grow compost?
Or can you get the same thingsfrom either one?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:03:00):
Yeah, so, so worm bins is compost.
So yeah, it's absolutely theright thing to do.
If you, if you've made a prettygood compost, uh, and then you
add worms to it, once it stopsheating up, which is what I do,
then the worms make it betterthan if you don't add the worms,
because you'll have morebacteria, more fungus, more
protozoa in there if you haveworms in the system.

(01:03:23):
So yeah, you certainly did theright thing having, having the
worms in there for sure.

Track 1 (01:03:28):
Sweet, because they've bred fruit flies, so I'm trying
not to be annoyed about thefruit flies and

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:03:34):
Okay, so, so just

Track 1 (01:03:35):
feed us.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (01:03:36):
so just a quick tip.
If you're breeding fruit flies,then your moisture level is a
little bit too high.
So just let it dry out a littlebit.
And your worms want to besomewhere in that, you know, 60
70 percent moisture range.
And the fruit flies are going togrow a little bit above that.
So, so there's a

Track 1 (01:03:57):
through the house.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:04:01):
Yeah, you bet.

Track 1 (01:04:02):
Okay, so You talk about how a soil should look when you
dig a shovel in, right?
Porous and rich and dark.
Mine looked like crap filleddirt, as we talked about.
Like, no moisture, no life.
So after I listened to yours, Idecided that instead of tilling
in compost and Tree bark.

(01:04:25):
I had, I had tilled in tree barkthe year before, but it
certainly didn't make anythingbetter.
So, I decided instead of tillingin, I would just take out that
crap dirt and start over.
And I chose that because intalking to a couple of the older
people that lived around me,They said, we've been trying to
repair this soil for 10 years.

(01:04:46):
I wish I would have just takenit out and started fresh.
So I decided to do that.
But how, how do you choose ifyou're going to repair soil or
take it out and start withbetter nutrients?
And then will you teach us whatthose nutrients are?
Because you had an interestingperspective on making potting

(01:05:08):
soil and it worked really wellfor me.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:05:10):
Okay, yeah, perfect.
So, when you walk out there andyou look at your garden, one of
the things that it's going totell you is whether or not it's
growing plants.
Okay, so, let's assume it's notwinter, it is in the growing
season, and you go out there.
If it's just dirt, and let's sayit's had some water, but it's
still just dirt, it might be agood idea to remove the soil.
But if there's weeds everywhere,and just, and there is plant

(01:05:34):
life, even if they're horribleweeds you hate, Then you
probably don't need to removethe soil because it is growing
plants.
So there's that part of it

Track 1 (01:05:43):
Okay.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-20 (01:05:44):
Now if you if you do feel like you
want to just put in a wholedifferent soil Then you could
just the simple thing I tellpeople and I tell people
different things and I don'texactly remember which recipe I
told you But here it goes andyou can correct me if you did
something different But what Ido is I just do like 50 percent
peat moss You And you can justbuy that from any garden center,

(01:06:04):
like a Lowe's or Home Depot orwhatever.
And then 50 percent of just thecheapest potting soil.
And the potting soil will alsohave some peat moss in it, but
quite often it will have otherthings like bark wood chips,
things like that.
So there will be other fillersin it.
So I just get 50 50 of those andthen I mix them up.
And I just use a little cementmixer, but you can just mix them

(01:06:26):
on a tarp or, or on a, anywhereyou don't, it doesn't have to be
fancy.
But just mix that up.
And while you're mixing it, Ilike to put some nutrient in it.
So I just put in equal parts ofa few things.
So one would be blood meal, andbone meal, and azomite, and egg

(01:06:48):
shells.
And, and you mix all thosethings up, and, and they're
thriving, and they're, and itwill help to give the nutrients
that your plants need.
so so that, that's the basics.
And those are just elements thatyou can get from you know, the
garden centers have those, havethose things.
So

Track 1 (01:07:08):
you did tell me that recipe, so that's great.
I really liked what you saidabout just getting the cheapest
potting soil, not only for mypocketbook, but because you said
the more expensive onessometimes have actual additions
that you may not want in yourgarden, other fertilizers or
sides that you don't want.
So just to go with the bulkcheapest thing that actually.

(01:07:31):
Having that decision be made forme before I even went to the
nursery was fantastic.
So thanks for that.
We did, oh, so we, I didn't havea whole bunch of eggshells yet.
So I did bone meal was the otherthing you said you could do.
But just to tell everybody, Ibought a lot of bags of bone
meal and I'm still not throughmy first and we've done a lot.

(01:07:52):
So bone meal goes very far, ismy humanitarian tip.
It, it fed a lot of dogs thattried to get into it.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01 (01:08:01):
Right.
Yeah.
They will, They will like

Track 1 (01:08:03):
keep that, keep that in a separate container.
But we I didn't have a cementmixer, but now I've seen you do
it that way.
That is on my list of What wedid is when we took out the
dirt, we had my son's friendshelp us.
They were good sports and we,and we paid them.
So that was fun for them too.
But we started it on a tarp, butthen found that got a little too

(01:08:26):
heavy.
So we just were mixing things inwheelbarrows and it was actually
really fun.
The one of the girls that washelping was like, I feel like
I'm like, over a cauldron orsomething.
Like, here's your blood milk.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01 (01:08:40):
That's

Track 1 (01:08:41):
And we just mixed it up.
It was really fun, actually.
So we mixed, we did that, but Ididn't have any azumite and I
just started.
Can you explain what azumite isand why I may want that in my
garden?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:08:53):
Yeah.
So the azomite, it's just acalcium source.
Like they mine it from thedeserts of Utah.
And it's it's just a source ofcalcium.
And, and a lot, most of oursoils, and, you know, most
gardens throughout North Americacan use some extra calcium.
Of course, the eggshells aregoing to be calcium, the azomite
has a lot of calcium, and theBone meal.

(01:09:17):
is going to be, and they'redifferent sources of calcium,
and they tend to feed differentgroups of microbes, which
increases your diversity ofmicrobes, which is a good thing
to know.
Azomite also has a lot of theother trace elements that your
plants need.
So it's a, it's just a goodthing to have

Track 1 (01:09:34):
And if you already have, like my garden now has
that mixture and it has four tosix inches of wood chips on top
of it.
So this year, or for othergardeners that already have
mulch and are already kind ofworking with soils, do you still
sprinkle some of that just ontop of the wood chips and wait
for the lovely bugs to bring itback down and water to wash it
down in?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:09:55):
Yeah, you know usually with anything
like something in the nightshadefamily.
So that would be tomatoes,peppers, eggplants, um,
tomatillos.
Those types of fruits andvegetables.
I just put a, a little bit inthe hole when I transplant the
plants.
So you're just going to dig alittle hole down through that
mulch layer.
So it's down into the soil.

(01:10:16):
Then just put a teaspoon of acalcium source down in there.
And that really helps those twoto go.
So,

Track 1 (01:10:24):
So just of the calcium source, or do you mix up that
potting soil?
and put that in with thetransplant every year, like

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:10:31):
yeah, it wouldn't,

Track 1 (01:10:32):
and everything.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (01:10:33):
it wouldn't necessarily be all of
the whole potting soil mix.
It would just be the, thefertilizers that we, that we
added.
So the eggshells, the azomite.
the blood meal and the bonemeal.
Yeah.
And, and you know, you, youcould even, you could throw in
some alfalfa meal.
You could throw in some kelpmeal.

(01:10:54):
There's some other things.
If you feel like your plantsdidn't do very good last year,
you may add in a little bit ofalfalfa or, or some kelp and it
just gives a few more nutrients.
And so let me just tell youthis, cause I didn't say this
before and this is important.
Uh, your ratios.
So I put about You know, aheaping tablespoon of each of

(01:11:15):
those into a five gallon bucketmix of this 50 50 mix.
So half, half of a five gallonbucket of a potting soil, half
of a five gallon bucket of peatmoss, and then a heaping
tablespoon of each of thoseother ingredients.

Track 1 (01:11:34):
Okay.
And then if I remember from yourclasses, just to kind of wrap up
our last topics, you saidbasically to repair nearly any
soil.
Remember what you said is to laydown.
a layer of cardboard to blockthe weeds that you don't like
from coming up and then to laydown so just I mean just on the

(01:11:56):
earth cardboard and then thelayer of wood chips which is
four to six inches right andthen to add in the inoculant so
your compost extraction and thento add in the other nutrients
like the blood meal bone mealazomite azomite azomite

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:12:13):
yeah, yeah, as it might be.
Yeah, it's A Z O, Azo, Azomite.
Yeah,

Track 1 (01:12:23):
or something.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01-202 (01:12:24):
we will give you your oral
examination now.
Okay, so, and that's correct.
So, I would add the powderedfertilizers, you know, put those
in the transplanting hole, andAs you transplant or just if
it's your first year and you'remixing it into the whole Um mix
then just do that and then plantyour plants in it throughout the

(01:12:47):
growing season You probably needto add some liquid fertilizer to
those plants You know, maybeevery two weeks maybe once a
week.
It just kind of depends watchyour plants.
See how they're doing Do theyfeel like they're growing?
Well you know, are there otherfactors?
Are you having lots of cloudyweather?
Well, they're going to growslower You So take the
everything in your environmentinto account.

(01:13:10):
Okay.

Track 1 (01:13:10):
what kind of fertilizer?
Are you talking Miracle Gro orare you talking fish emulsion?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:13:15):
Yeah.
So I would just use somethingmore along the organic line.
So like a fish hydrolysate.
So, you know, for people in theWestern United States, there's a
company called IntermountainFarmer known as IFA, and that's
a good place to get the fishhydrolysate.
Most of the garden centers wouldcarry a fish emulsion.

(01:13:35):
And it's similar, but the fishhydrolysate has longer carbon
chains in it.
And so they're going to befeeding your fungus a little bit
more.
So it's a little bit harder tofind fish hydrolysate, but it is
a better fertilizer.
And, and I would, I would avoidthe Miracle Gro type things.
But, but if, if you're justgetting started and you have

(01:13:57):
Miracle Gro, you can go aheadand use it.
Just realize.
That instead of 3 to 5 years toa functioning soil, you may be
more like, you know 5 to 8 yearsif you keep using the, the
really easily absorbedfertilizers like a Miracle Gro.
It just takes a little bitlonger to get your microbes to

(01:14:20):
grow.
It's not that Miracle Gro killsthe microbes, it just stops them
from colonizing as quickly.
Because the plants are notfeeding the microbes the proper
exudates to get those microbialpopulations to grow when you're
feeding the Miracle Gro.
So I tend to not feed MiracleGro.

Track 1 (01:14:40):
Okay.
And don't the fertilizers,aren't they like a fertilizer
salt that can make kind of asalt table as it goes down
through the soil?
Am I

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:14:47):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
Yeah, I mean you know years andyears of any of those commercial
fertilizers they will build upyour salt levels and then your
plants are dehydrating even whenthey have plenty of water in the
soil.
So, you know, I mean, a lot ofour farmland, we hear a lot of
propaganda about, you know, the,there's only 60 harvests left in

(01:15:10):
the, you know, and that could betrue, but I mean, it's not
really true if enough people gothrough my class because we can
fix a terrible soil in three tofive years.
So we just need to fix them.
But yeah, I mean, some of these,so if we keep doing what we're
doing, the way we're doing it,With the amount of salts we're
putting on the ground, yeah,those ground, those giant fields

(01:15:33):
of farmland, they're not goingto grow food anymore.
So, I mean, there's certainlytruth in what is being said, but
nobody should be scared about itbecause I can take the worst
piece of soil in the worldbecause I've done it many times.
We can take the worst soil,contaminated all kinds of
problems, and in five years it'sthe Garden of Eden, so, you

(01:15:54):
know, you know.

Track 1 (01:15:55):
That's amazing.
So, as we near to the end, Ijust want to say along this
vein, I was hearing a little bitof hearsay and I thought it was
just fair propaganda.
But, no, like you're saying,that those farmlands, if left
unchanged, are not going to beable to produce food that can

(01:16:16):
sustain us.
But the amazing news is whathappens when we rehabilitate.
I saw a documentary on Netflix afew weeks ago, I think it was
called Kiss the Ground.
It was, have you seen that?
Yeah, it was talking about theproblems with climate change and
all of the the climate changeand all the problems we're

(01:16:38):
seeing in the environmentbasically, but talked about how
plants naturally pull carbon outof the air and down in the
earth.
And then you touched on it, butthe new, the nutrients, I mean
the, I'm not saying this right,you touched on it, but when the
carbon comes down through theplants into the soil, the living

(01:16:58):
factors in the soil actually usethat carbon.
So we can reverse climatechange.
We can help, you know, what'shappening in our skies and in
our climates and in our world bydoing this process as well.
Then not only do we get betterfood, the bacteria in the soil
get fed and everybody wins.
It's

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:17:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly for

Track 1 (01:17:20):
So where can people follow you, learn more or take
classes?
Cause you have some super coolclasses.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:17:27):
Yeah, just I mean all my contact
information is on my websiteit's called the Georgic
revolution Georgic as inVirgil's georgic poems about
farming ancient literature iswhat we're talking about there.
But Yeah, so that's where all mycontact is.
We have a good website.
It has a lot of informationinformation Winter.

Track 1 (01:17:48):
you do boot camps in every season to help people if
they want to come out.
You, we learned all kinds ofskills.
We not only learned the science,we got to look at our own soil.
People could bring soil samplesand just with your microscope
right there, I know you have asoil lab.
You test people's soils to findout.
what they actually have.

(01:18:08):
So you aren't kind of shootingin the dark and then, you know,
if you need to grow more fungusor if you need to introduce
earthworms or whatever it is.
That was fascinating to seethat.
And then we also learned fastertricks in how to plant well.
We saw the diversity.
We were able to look at just somany things you packed into

(01:18:28):
three or four days, but you alsodo a summer program, right?
Will you tell me about that?

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:18:35):
Yeah, so, I have a class and we are
able to take 20 students at atime.
And, it's a four month class.
It starts in May, it ends inSeptember.
So that's our growing seasonhere.
Each student is assigned agarden, and it's their personal
garden.
It's 15 feet wide, it's 50 feetlong.

(01:18:56):
I mentor each student so thatthey can have the most
successful garden possible andthey learn all the gardening
skills.
They learn self discovery in theclassroom.
So we, we're, we're working onthe human aspect for sure.
And we work a lot on selfdevelopment.

(01:19:16):
And then each student identifiesa problem in society that they
find interesting and then theydevelop a project.
So, when they go home, they areempowered with some personal
skills, and some food growingskills, and some climate
regeneration skills, so thatthey can impact their community

(01:19:39):
in whatever project they want.
You know, we had one girl, andshe went home, and her thing was
herbs, so she wanted to do awhole bunch of medicinal herbs
so that they were available toher.
The people in her life who, whouse medicinal herbs, but they
just go to the health food storeand buy dried herbs.
But growing the fresh ones, it'smuch better.
They're much more potent andeffective for what they do.

(01:20:04):
But anyway, we have had a lot ofstudents do a lot of fun
projects.
So That's yeah, and we're takingapplications right now.
So you can go to the website andread all about that.
There's a lot of information onthere.
for listening.
to answer all your questions.
And of course I'm available to,you can email me, text me
anytime with any questions youhave.

Track 1 (01:20:26):
Thank you so much, William.
The, the whole subject matter ofthe whole point of this podcast
is about empowering people tohave more health and vitality in
their lives.
And truthfully, one of thechanges that I have made in my
life is gardening in this way.
And vitality is the word.

(01:20:47):
It was a lot of work to put in,but I felt like it kind of
worked.
bring me back to life almost.
I know that sounds weird, but Icould do it in smaller sections.
There was teamwork.
There was this science meeting,actual reality and how I helped
my family.
But then the The even biggerbenefits truthfully came not

(01:21:09):
even just because of theharvest, which tasted better and
was, had way fewer bugs on theproduce.
We got to eat every single thingthat we grew.
If we could eat it in timebefore it went bad because there
was so much, my yield was muchhigher, but also just I would go
out to the garden and I would dowhat you talked about.

(01:21:29):
I would listen and I would feel,I would sit next to it on the
little rock wall and I wouldjust take my shoes off.
I'm like, I am the gardeninghippie now and put my feet on
the, on the wood chips and beleaning over and munching on a
strawberry while I was cuttingsome plant down that was time to
be cut down.
And I really could feel theearth, giving back.

(01:21:52):
It just struck me how I thoughtI was doing all of this good for
the earth.
And then, as usual, when we comeforward in service it gave back.
It gave back more than I feltlike I gave to it.
And the vitality that I couldfeel, literally feel, in the
food.
Like when I eat a carrot that,that we grew versus a carrot

(01:22:15):
from Walmart, they're not,they're not the same.
So much more vitality

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:22:21):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:22:22):
much more health.
So thank you so much fortraining anyone else who's
interested through your classesor can be hearing it as podcast.
I am really grateful for yourtime today.

squadcaster-861f_2_02-01- (01:22:33):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.

Track 1 (01:22:35):
Okay.
Until next time.
Thanks for joining us.
I hope you enjoyed that as muchas I enjoy that, I always like
talking to William DeMille.
I would strongly suggest any ofthe classes that he teaches.

(01:22:57):
Either online, his free YouTubevideos that are Q and A's, he
puts out almost every week.
Any of the courses that heteaches the bootcamps are
fantastic.
And that summer program.
Wow.
If I had the love that I havefor now for working with the
soil.
But I was back in college or myearly twenties.
I would be there for a summer.

(01:23:17):
I would already be signed up.
So for the cliff notes version,number one, healthy soil is
alive and has to have livingthings in it like worms and bugs
and microbes.
And it smells nice.
It doesn't smell bad.
And if you ever open a bag ofsomething that smells bad, do
not put it on your garden.

(01:23:39):
As a review for the episodebefore something else that is
important in feeding themicrobes in the soil are two
things.
Number one, you want it to havedecaying plant material?
That's what the microbes eat.
So things like compost, grass,clippings, and wood chips.
And number two, the microbes eateggs.
The dates that come out of theliving plant roots.
So remember that's like theplant sweat.

(01:24:00):
That has the nutrients that theyneed and they can metabolize to
put into your plants.
so you need the living plans andthe molt.
And remember, instead ofisolating the plants in
different areas in your garden,you want to mix them up more.
See, if you can have four plantfamilies that are planted
together enough that their rootsare touching.
And when those roots touch, theystart to make what's called

(01:24:22):
secondary metabolites and thoseturn on a different set of
genetics.
Which make art.
Plants have better taste andnutrition.
And because they have bettertastes of nutrition, the pest
don't like them as much.
So also better pesters distance.
In this one, we talk about a lotof traditional practices, like
how to do compost correctly,which is far, far more

(01:24:44):
nutritious and less risk ofhaving problems with anaerobic
bacteria.
then if you buy them at a store,We talk about telling practices.
The gist is don't tell.
It sincerely hurts the fungus inyour soil, which you really
need.
It's a fantastic benefit to yoursoil.
And also we got that recipe fora quick soil fill in or for

(01:25:05):
making your own potting soilmix.
It's less expensive and it'salso way better for your plants.
So I put the recipe for thosethings in the show notes,
There's also a link to hiswebsite and the courses he
teaches and the book that he'swritten as well.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
And that's William DeMille.
As for next week, the next gueston the show is just one of the

(01:25:27):
coolest people I know.
Her name is Tara Capehart.
And she is our Y T 200 certifiedin half a yoga, yin yoga.
And she's a certified mini yogainstructor as well as a
myofascial release practitioner.
She's also just one of the bestyoga teachers.
I've ever attended a class forthe reason I asked her to be on

(01:25:49):
the show is because there issomething very different about
being in a class that is taughtby Tara.
There is a respect and the waythat she sets up the class and
the flow and the ambience endsup being such an invitation to
go inside your own body and dropsome of the judgment or
comparing that happens when wego into new environments,

(01:26:10):
especially fitness environments,like yoga.
She creates the movement flowsreally intentionally.
And I had questions about that.
I also have questions about howit is that she gets it to be
such a balance of masculine andfeminine in the class.
Which is such a rewardingexperience for everyone
involved.
And then we also get to talkabout some of the ancestral

(01:26:31):
wisdom, things that shepractices like bone broth.
She brought bone broth to ourinterview, which was in person
and it was freaking delicious.
I have since then, Startedmaking my own.
And we talk about how to dothat.
Tara has a strong belief thatit's the simple choices that we
make every day to strengthen ourphysical and spiritual
connection.
That lead to a purposeful and afulfilling life.

(01:26:51):
And I think you will hear thatcome through in the interview.
So I'm excited to share herwisdom with you and we'll see
you next week.
I'll meet you here.

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