March 5, 2024 • 60 mins
In this engaging episode we sit with transformative coach and speaker, Kole Whitty, to delve into the intricacies of health, personal growth, and the healing journey beyond traditional modalities. Dr. Becca shares her own health crisis that led her to realize the continuous nature of the healing process, while Kole opens up about her challenging journey from trauma and drug abuse to becoming a leading figure in personal and spiritual development. This episode introduces the 'Condor Approach,' a program designed by Kole and her husband, which focuses on integration and support during life's transitions and transformations, not limited to but including experiences with psychedelics and plant medicines/teachers. They explore the importance of safe spaces, qualified guidance, and community in navigating the healing process, and the role of integration in producing lasting change. Kole's backstory, including her transition from being Miss Teen Utah advocating against drug use to embracing plant medicine in South America, sets the stage for a profound discussion on navigating change, healing, and making life more fulfilling.
00:00 Introduction and Personal Journey
01:20 Exploring Alternative Healing Methods
02:28 Navigating the World of Psychedelics
03:07 Introducing Kole
03:58 The Condor Approach and Life Transitions
04:41 Kole's Personal Journey and Transformation
07:17 Understanding the Condor Approach
13:50 Dealing with Life Transitions and Changes
20:16 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Authenticity
26:31 The Impact of Ego in Service and Healing
30:17 Understanding the Shame Spiral and Outcome-Driven Mindset
31:03 The Body's Process-Oriented Nature and the Journey to Desired Outcomes
31:42 The Role of Awareness in Personal Transformation
33:40 The Three-Tier Step to Building Awareness
34:43 The Importance of a Solid Foundation in Personal and Professional Growth
35:38 The Power of Live Events in Personal Transformation, how Condor Coaching does it differently
37:01 The Role of Diverse Perspectives in Personal Growth
45:23 The Importance of Authenticity and Real-Time Problem Solving in Transformational Events
47:23 Understanding the Transformation Trap and the Power of the Condor Approach
54:04 The Importance of Integration in Personal Transformation
55:45 The Good, Bad, and Ugly of Psychedelics and Plant Medicine Spaces
Join us for part 2 in the next episode!
Condor Approach Integration coaching book: https://www.amazon.com/Condor-Approach-Mind-Body-Psychedelic-Experiences/dp/B0BZKFWDM2
For more of Kole, or to check out their events and coaching options, visit the Condor Approach website:
Listen to more integration coaching on Kole’s Podcast, The Psychedelic Coach.
Follow on insta @mystikole for more good stuff. :)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the WhatReally Makes a Difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whittaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health was tested when my
own health hit a landslide and Ibecame a very sick patient.
(00:22):
I've learned that showing up forour own health and vitality is a
step by step journey that wetake for the rest of our lives.
And this podcast is aboutsharing some of the things that
really make a difference on thatjourney with you.
So grab your explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical
(00:45):
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.
(01:06):
I am so grateful that you havejoined us for this episode
because there is just so muchgood here.
I know there are so many peoplewho are looking for a change and
looking for healing in theirlives.
So many of us have triedtherapy, have tried coaching,
have tried a lot of methods thathave helped maybe still feel
(01:29):
like there is this part of usinside.
That we just can't get tothrough our conscious mind.
And it is at that point thatlots of people start to look for
other methods that can help usgo a little deeper.
Things like psychedelics,ketamine, ayahuasca, or other
plant teachers and spiritualjourneys.
(01:50):
There can be so much good inthat space, and there can also
be so much crap.
And it can be a little bitchallenging to navigate that.
There are some dangers in thatspace.
There's addiction and spiritualbypassing, and there are people
who take advantage of otherpeople while they are under the
(02:12):
influence of the medicine,really.
There is also so much good thatcan happen if you are in a safe
place, if you have qualifiedmentors or shaman, and they can
help walk you throughexperiences in a different way
than many other techniques can.
But how can we navigate that?
How do we find a qualifiedshaman or mentor?
(02:33):
Do we have to go to SouthAmerica?
What is legal?
What isn't legal?
And if your spiritual journeydoes give you some information
that kind of rocks your world,how do you integrate it
afterward?
Is it just about having ajourney and then going home and
you're healed and life iswonderful?
Or.
Can it maybe cause somedisruption and how do you keep
(02:56):
that experience as a workinghelper in your life instead of
just a thing that happened oneweekend that you remember
sometimes?
These are questions that so manypeople have and that I also had.
So I am profoundly grateful thatI got not just one episode but
two episodes of I brought her onbecause there is no one quite
(03:19):
like her for cutting through thecrap with all of the grace, all
of the kindness, and all of thekind of like bird's eye view of
this situation, but withreality, she's not afraid to get
in the real dirt and in the realexperience of things and give us
ways that we can stay with her.
More safe and have experiencesthat help us and that we can
(03:42):
integrate.
So we ultimately are making alife that is more our own and
that's more fulfilling to us.
And she's just a powerful coachand speaker and.
becoming a person that I respectso much.
This is the first out of the twoepisodes and in this one we talk
about the coaching program thatshe and her husband do.
(04:04):
It's called the Condor Approachand it is about integration for
life experiences or aboutgetting help in life
transitions.
It's basically for when you needcoaching and community
environments.
to help you reach for somethingthat is beyond yourself with
support.
So they do coaching for morethan just psychedelic coaches or
(04:28):
plant teacher coaches.
It is not just in that space,it's in general, and that's what
we're talking about in thisepisode.
Integration, transitions, andgiving the basics of her
experience coming to the placethat she is.
To give you a little moreinsight into Cole before we
begin our discussion, she hadtrauma as a child which led to
(04:50):
wanting to step out of things orfind relief from her inner
world.
So she, at a young age, startedto get into drugs when she was a
teenager and ended up havingsome really scary, terrible
experiences with drugs that Madeit so she pivoted entirely.
She became Miss Teen Utah andher platform was anti drug.
(05:14):
Then she became a health coachand a trainer and was
integrating all things healthbut sort of felt like she was
still always trying to outrunher story of previously being an
addict and like nothing wasreally gonna make up for it and
there was It's always somethingto have to reach for or
something to be perfect at inorder to prove her past.
(05:35):
I know many of us can relate toa feeling like that of making up
for decisions or things from ourpast.
She ended up with a lot ofhealth problems herself just at
a place where she needed toreach for something beyond
herself.
In that space, She found somewonderful mentors and guides for
psychedelics and for other plantteachers.
(05:58):
And she dove into that world andstarted facilitating other
people to be able to do that,working with tribes in South
America and going to see sincereshaman and doing the work.
Since then, she has actuallypivoted to Coaching other people
that want to be coaches ortransformation leaders.
(06:20):
So she has kind of been in thetrenches in so many different
arenas having to do with thistopic.
And that's why I'm justincredibly grateful that she's
here.
So without further ado, let's gointo part one where we learn
about the Condor approach,integration and Kohl's history.
I'll see you on the other side.
(06:42):
I am so grateful to be here withCole Witte.
And I know how lucky I am tohave her here.
So she is a founding member.
She and her husband do what iscalled the Condor Approach.
It's integration coaching forbasically transformational
stages in life or for just lifeintegration Ends In general,
(07:05):
they call it psychedelicinformed because they do have a
lot of experience in thepsychedelic space with coaching,
facilitating, holding space forpeople using those plant
medicines, but it's more thanthat.
So to give us a place for whereyou are at and what you do, can
you please explain what theCondor approach is and why it's
(07:25):
called the Condor approach?
Sure.
So first of all, stoked to behere.
It's my favorite conversation.
So any chance I have.
To have it i'm all for itgetting a little bit over a
cold.
So we're going to work withwhat's here for today So, you
know i'll start by backing up alittle bit of what would cause
someone to dedicate their lifeto something That's a little
(07:49):
Vogue, a little rogue, a littleuncertain for a lot of people,
or a lot, just a little sketchyfor some.
So, I grew up in Utah, in theMormon church, and because of
some childhood experiences, itbrought a lot of shame and guilt
into how I translated somechildhood experiences.
(08:10):
And I'm going to leave it therefor today.
But ultimately, there was, bythe time I hit 26 years old,
There was a lot of unresolvedtrauma and also just childhood
experiences that I had created alot of meaning that caused me to
internalize shame and guilt andI was really hard on myself and
it all kind of came to a head at26 years old when I was at
(08:33):
Disneyland and I sat down on theground and started to cry
because I was in so muchphysical pain I couldn't take
another step.
And I was looking at, I washaving one of those moments, I
don't know if you've ever hadone, where you see yourself
outside of yourself in like anironic situation.
And I was seeing the irony ofbeing at the happiest place on
(08:56):
earth.
In the worst pain or one of theworst places I'd been in my
health in my life up tell themand that's saying something So
I'd been in a coma.
I At that point it had like 20something broken bones held at
gunpoint car accidentsEndometriosis, I'd had an
ovarian torsion.
I'd had a lot of health thingsmigraines Up until 26, but this
(09:18):
was that moment where my bodywas telling me, you don't get to
take another step in the waythat you're living life in the
way that you are.
And that's what got me intoworking with psychedelics.
It was just the right friend atjust the right time and just the
right signs for me to lean intogoing that direction.
That led me to South America.
That led me on my healingjourney.
(09:40):
I've been off all medicationssince 2009.
But what it came down to is Ihad to learn how to translate my
body's language.
I learned that my health was ona continuum from ease to dis
ease.
And what I do or don't do movesthe dial.
You're never healed, you'realways healing.
So where am I in my healing?
Right?
Heal thy for healthy.
(10:01):
Do I heal thy mind?
How do I do that?
If I heal thy body, how am Idoing that?
And through My plant medicine,psychedelic master teacher
experiences, that led me down toPeru.
In Peru, the condor, which ourbusiness is called the Condor
Approach, the condor is avulture.
It's one of the biggest birds inthe world.
(10:23):
And it flies the highest, itflies at 16 to 18, 000 feet.
It's got like a 13 footwingspan.
Now because it's a vulture, themessage that kept coming to me
was that part of my path was tobe a part of evolving the dead
and dying system.
And so a vulture is a part ofnature's cleanup crew.
(10:44):
It helps to break down the deadthat the, you know, and help it
be renowned and break down intothe environment.
And that's very much what theCondor has become.
The Condor approach is on onelevel, really people that
consider themselvesevolutionaries.
We know we can't go back towhere we were, but how do we
still maintain awareness aroundwhere we've been?
(11:06):
with a perspective on thehorizon of where we're going and
having that high level view, butthat the condor, as far as
mysticism, is known as amessenger of heaven to earth.
So someone that, for me, that isin that archetype of the condor,
also as high as they fly, comesto the earth to get in the work,
(11:27):
to be a part of thetransformative structures, the
breaking down of old structures,and the condor itself is the
only bird of prey that eats onthe ground.
It doesn't go scoop it and takeit up high.
It actually stays on the earthto do the work, to break it
down.
And so the Condor approach isthe combination of
(11:50):
evolutionaries and people thatwant to be a part of evolving
these systems that are broken,that are, you know, colonized,
that are patriarchal, that arenot working the way that we need
them to.
and also people that are lookingfor more freedom and flexibility
and have done enough work onthemselves that, like the
(12:11):
Condor, they don't need to workso hard so they can ride the
currents of the environments.
They've done enough work onthemselves.
They're not so reactiveexternally.
They can trust themselves thatas the winds change, they can
change.
And that's the Condor reallyrides the drifts and can go an
hour without flapping its wings.
But there is still all of theeffort of takeoff It's still a
(12:35):
big bird, it still takes workto, to make big moves, but it
knows how to trust itself.
And so for us, the Condorapproach is the approach of a
new time, of a new era for thepeople that are here to do the
work and really make changes forhumanity.
Oh, that is the most beautifuldescription of a business name
(12:56):
I've ever heard.
And I feel like, yeah.
Addressing what needs help withthe dead and dying is a subject
we don't hear very much.
We hear about growth, we hearabout 10x, we hear about all
that, but in order for that tohave fertile soil to grow from,
a lot of things that are notworking do have to crumble and
(13:18):
die and that can be A terrifyingplace for some people that can
sometimes be even if, even ifyou've done the work, it can be
hard to be in a position whereyou are watching things crumble
around you.
But from that view, knowing thatyou are sometimes called to be
someone that is seeing thingshappening and being a part of a
(13:42):
conscious pulling apart of whatisn't working and building what
is.
I think that is so beautiful andI'm grateful you're present to
do the work.
Can you tell me about what youhelp people integrate with?
So I've heard you talk aboutlife changes and how you can use
psychedelics and have incrediblelife changes, but it doesn't
(14:06):
require psychedelics to befacing transitions where
something that you were is dyingand, or something that you're
moving into is learning how tolive and breathe.
How do you coach people?
Through that, what do you, whatdo you do in either space?
Yeah.
So this is a really great way tokind of pull all of it in and
(14:29):
then we can, you know, kind ofgo a little bit deeper into
different aspects.
We are going throughtransformational processes
consistently throughout ourlife.
From car accidents to traumas,to a new job, to finishing
college, to, you know, goingfrom medical school into
residency, into becoming adoctor, like all of these
(14:50):
transitions require a newversion of us.
And so let's say for example,something that I've coached when
I did private client work was awoman who had her first baby and
they were calling it postpartumdepression, but we knew in doing
deeper work with her and lookingat the whole picture in an
intake process.
I have a full form that I havepeople fill out that's not just
(15:13):
questions about their mind.
And what I mean by their mind istheir beliefs or what they're
struggling with mental health,but also what's gone on in their
body throughout their lifetime,their beliefs.
If they're first generation, ifthey were raised in a religion,
if they weren't raised in areligion, but in a saturated
religious area, there's certainenvironments.
(15:36):
That cause and effect and ingoing through that process for
this particular woman, therewas, she had what we call multi
construct strain.
Now for me, a construct could bea job.
It could be a religion.
It is a construct.
It's a structure.
And so growing up, she had amother that told her, you know,
(15:57):
to be powerful and independentand she could do anything.
And she did right.
And she had this incredible joband she made six figures and did
all the things.
That she believed she could do amore feminist approach to life
and being able to compete andout in the market.
But then there was the part ofher, raised in a religious
background and out of a desireof her own to be a mother.
(16:20):
And to be home with her kids.
And so what was actuallyhappening in having this first
baby is there was a mourningprocess.
For who she was, what theycalled postpartum depression was
not just a hormone change.
It was an identity change andego death of sorts.
We would call it a psychedelicspace where the version of her
(16:41):
that had worked so hard to go toschool, have 10 years in the
work field, be working with, youknow, fortune 500 companies that
that was going to change for atleast the first two years.
That was the agreement forherself, her partner, you know,
their baby that they wanted thatfull commitment until the baby's
(17:01):
a toddler, right?
That she wanted to be home.
It's easier said, and it's anice idea.
Her primal instinct struggled tobe separate from the
significance she had built inher career.
Now that did not mean she wasn'tgrateful to be a mother and feel
like that was exactly where shewas meant to be.
(17:23):
It was that in trying to It'salmost like because she was
trying to not think or not allowherself to mourn the life that
she lost in her job and herselfbecause she was afraid on an
unconscious level that mightmean she didn't love her baby or
that she regretted it, whichwasn't true, so there was an
(17:44):
avoidant mechanism inside of herdoing this like rollercoaster of
emotions because she's elated tobe a mother and Mourning the
significance and the drive.
And she loved her brain and sheloved her strategy and she loved
that masculine structure ofgetting things done, but she
wasn't trying to change it ortrade it.
(18:05):
And so when we actually from acoaching perspective and what
the Condor approach offers in asituation where it has nothing
to do with psychedelics, but shewent through a transformative
experience where there was abreakdown.
It's a breakdown of the oldversion of her, where how we
could approach something likethat is she wrote a letter to
her former self, to the womanthat was the CEO, to say, no, we
(18:28):
can go back to that.
But right now we made a choiceand she was able to mourn it.
She was able to really be withit and be with the new version
of her.
That's the mother and talk aboutthe future version of her when
the baby gets older, whereshe'll get to reintegrate some
of the parts where she's justchanging focus.
She's not losing anything.
(18:49):
It's just that her prioritieshave shifted, but there, she
didn't realize the depth ofattachment she had built around
her career, that it was like shebuilt this entire existence that
was crumbled like a house ofcards.
And it took her so many years toestablish it felt in an
unconscious level, like shejust.
(19:11):
Like, blew it all away.
Like, she just destroyed it.
Which wasn't really true.
I know people, in fact, I'mstruggling to think of anybody
that I know who has really liveda life that hasn't had some
business fail or a relationshipfail or switched into one realm
(19:32):
from another, thinking it wouldbe fantastic, and then feeling
like you're on a slippery slope.
So, I'm Exactly.
That space, I don't feel likehas a whole lot of support.
I love, I love how you advisethat, and I'm sure you have
different methods.
So if people are going throughtransitions, or wondering what
(19:57):
they can do in those spots, youdo have quite a few free
resources, and different waysthat people can work with you,
right?
Can you tell me what that lookslike and, and what it looks like
to really be aware you're at atransition?
And Yeah.
The, you know, the first keystep that quite often does
(20:19):
benefit people in exploringpsychedelics is that it helps
you on some level, take thepower back into your own hands
and some radical selfresponsibility and sovereignty.
And that's where the benefit cancome in.
And so aside from going downthat path, it's about how do you
increase your self awareness forthe purpose of transformation,
(20:40):
not degradation.
I was always improving myself,but it was because the driver of
that was that I was trying tomake up for everything I thought
I wasn't, anything I felt I'dever done wrong, and it was an
overcompensation.
Driven by guilt and shame.
And that is very common.
(21:00):
Most performers that I know, orpleasers that I know, including
myself, it, you, it, it's liketrying to outrun something, or
prove something, and that'slike, you almost have a
compulsory feeling inside of youthat you have to keep pushing.
And what you're saying is Tolook at the reasons why you're
pushing correct, becauseultimately going back to what I
(21:25):
said about the health is on acontinuum that runs from ease to
disease.
If you are living your life in astate of unease and stress,
that's where we see adrenalfatigue, autoimmune issues, Lyme
disease type symptoms, Lymedisease recurrence, or where it
kind of takes over the body,because the body's in such a
state of stress it cannot heal.
(21:45):
And so where, what can youcontrol, right?
If you got bit by a tick and youhave Lyme, you can't change
that.
But there's other ways that youcan lower the, as Alex Scharf in
My Business Coach calls it,lower the pressure and noise.
in other ways in your life togive your body an opportunity to
heal.
That means you're going to haveto have an awareness outside of
(22:06):
just what you're consuming withyour mouth.
It's how are you honoringboundaries for yourself and
others?
How are you with peoplepleasing, putting other people's
needs first, right?
All of those things you have todevelop, or you have the
opportunity when you develop aradical awareness of what drives
you to do what you do.
(22:27):
And it, you might end up stilldoing the same thing on the
other side and how you servepeople.
But when you do it because ofyou truly in your heart feel
that's what you're called to doversus obligation or shame or
guilt, that's the difference inyour health.
So cause the thing is in theCondor approach, we've done over
300, 000 in contributions,scholarship, underserved
(22:51):
communities, people that don'thave access to these types of
tools.
And so I'm still helping people.
In tons of different ways, thedifference is now, one, I don't
need approval from anyone,right?
And being a white person, awhite bodied female in the
psychedelic space, you do getquestioned around where did you
(23:13):
learn?
Who did you learn from?
How are you contributing toindigenous communities?
And I had to do the deeper workto get clear with the elders I
needed to be clear with.
God, the way I needed to beclear with, and beyond that, I
don't care what anybody says.
And that was important work forme to do because now I don't
(23:33):
play small with my actions.
Where when I first got into thisfield and wanting to help
people, when you as a coach, asa doctor, as a healer, are so
focused on the other persongetting results, not Where they
actually are and what they wantto do and what they're able to
do.
It becomes about you and youroutcome and you wanting to be
(23:56):
successful or you wanting tohelp them.
But now you've pedestalizedyourself looking down on them
that where they're, where theyare is not good enough.
And so you want the breakthroughfor them so bad because you want
them to be happy and healthy.
Yes.
But then it becomes about you.
And so there's this veryinteresting, intricate, sticky
(24:18):
situation you can get in withyour ego if you are not
operating from a, just kind ofclearing the lines.
I see it just like plumbing, youknow, where it's like if you go
to a house that's been kind oflike the faucets haven't been
used for a while, you turn onthe faucet, it kind of runs
dirty for a little bit.
We, if we want to be of serviceand most authentically as
(24:40):
possible, we want to clear ourlines.
So that what is coming throughis not only genuine, but also
authentic.
And I think that even peoplethat have been raised to be
contribution driven and serviceoriented.
It's always genuine, but it'snot always authentic because
that day they didn't want to,they didn't draw a boundary.
(25:03):
They feel obligated because it'sfamily.
And so it no longer is authenticthe service.
That's where we see passiveaggressive behavior.
And on a deeper level, if we hada parent that gave significance
and love for high achievementand took it away, we might not
call that trauma.
But in our field, we would callthat a lower T trauma where the
(25:23):
person develops a highperformance mechanism inside of
them.
Because if I don't perform, Idon't get loved.
If I don't get love andattention, I get cast out of the
tribe and I will die out in thewilderness.
And so it's a primal instinctualthing.
And so when we do that work,then we actually have a greater
fountain to pour into others.
(25:45):
Because it's like we havecleared out those pipes so more
can pass through, you know?
And so for me, when I did thatwork, it meant that I didn't
need anyone to change.
I was able to fully accept themand love them and say, I will
support you in changing the waysthat you want.
To me, you don't, you don't haveto, you don't.
(26:05):
Now, if you're not happy, youmight want to change some
things, but I don't require itas a coach, as a healer, helping
people build their business.
Because at the end of the day,None of that actually matters.
I want people to have a placewhere they feel safe to be
themself, to be honest withthemself and explore themself,
and you know, and not, can I getthem the outcome, because then
(26:30):
it's actually about me.
You know, you just encapsulatedin only a few minutes basically
the most intense two years I'veever had in my life.
Was unpacking just that.
I worked with a provider.
That was an incredibly brilliantpractitioner and a minister and
(26:50):
genuinely wanted my good and wasso well versed in things.
But when I started not healingas fast as his.
Uh, patients usually would andit started to mess with his
stats and his success.
Then it really shifted intosomething that was different.
There was, I got to feel what itwas like when ego was not on
stage and when ego was on stageand it made everything just a
(27:12):
lot stickier and a lot harder.
I finally ended up stopping workwith him and, and it taught me a
lot about as a practitioner oras a coach or I mean as, Any
person in any field, when youhave a skill set and you want to
share it, I think the driver ofbeing of service is amazing, but
(27:35):
when your ego gets in there, itreally muddies the waters.
I now can't really suggest thatother people go see him because
I know about the muddy waterthat can come in, which is
frustrating.
But when I.
Stepped out of that space withthat doctor and into a different
mentor.
(27:55):
He was all about what you'vebeen talking about.
Going into what it is that isgiving me a clear yes for things
or a clear no for things.
And I realized I did not havethat.
A clear yes or a no.
My instincts to serve and helpand love in my business, in my
family, in my neighborhood, mycommunity, in the world were so
(28:20):
high that all I knew was theinstinct to do that and I wasn't
questioning A, the cost, but B,where it was coming from because
I learned there can be a clearyes where I am aligned and then
there also can be Sure, I'll dothat, but really I don't want
(28:40):
to, and then I'm going to do itanyway, and then I end up
resenting you.
I learned that the biggest blockto a loving relationship was
actually me saying things thatweren't true, like saying I am
good with doing something whenI'm not, or stepping forward to
serve when I'm tired.
It was me trying to be theperson that I had held up on a
(29:03):
pedestal that always serves, isnever tired.
It's always friendly.
It's always happy.
Holding that person I wanted tobe instead of the reality of how
I felt right then caused me justa myriad of problems and not
until I looked into why I dothat did it begin to help.
(29:25):
So if you're doing that topeople in many different stages
of life or of learning or inmonetary capacity I, I just
can't think of a better workthat there is to offer, really.
Yeah, you know, that whensomeone's in a situation,
especially if they'rechronically ill or they're
(29:47):
struggling with things.
A lot of times they are alreadyin shame spirals of not
enoughness or too muchness,right?
Like my dis-ease and my illnessis too much for the people
around me, right?
They can't understand I'm aninconvenience and I'm not enough
because I don't have enoughenergy to do all the things I
used to be able to do, or I'mcommitting to, or I'm comparing
(30:08):
to somebody else.
And so those shame spirals arealready there.
So for a healer, a shaman, afacilitator, whoever a parent.
When we are outcome driven, weare more likely to trigger the
shame spiral further.
So if you're not getting theresults, whether it's as a
patient or, you know, going on apsychedelic experience, working
(30:29):
and sitting with these masterteachers, if you already have a
propensity to blame yourself,shame yourself, guilt yourself,
then that's all that is going todo in response.
Is if you go to someone that'slike, look, most of the people
that come to me, they havegotten more results by now.
So what's actually going on andyou're not doing it right, which
(30:50):
is usually why people are in thehealth state that they're in is
because they're already doingthat to themselves.
And so it's how then do you,how, even once you have the
awareness, that doesn't mean itchanges.
Because here's the thing, thebody's process oriented.
So we can have a big realizationin our head or in our heart, but
(31:11):
the body takes time, right?
It's like going to the gym andworking out.
Just because I decide tomorrowthat I want to have a six pack
or I go start, you know, doingsquats with heavier weights, I
want to build a bigger booty orwhatever.
That's not one day in the gymtomorrow.
That means now I'm going toenter a period of being in
(31:31):
process.
To that outcome that I want andso especially when it comes to
our bodies and how it might beExpressing I like to first
start.
Yes.
We have a realization of themind then What do we do with it?
Right because from what itsounds like you're saying you
already were starting to havethe awareness around these
things But then it was a processof experiencing it and taking
(31:55):
that knowledge into a wisdomthat you understood on a deeper
level.
And then you probably had tostart exploring tools and foods
and relationships andenvironments and how come today
was a great day.
And yesterday was a terrible daywhen really the environment
overall didn't change.
You just start to see as yourawareness increases certain
(32:15):
patterns and trends.
And that's what I started to dowith my own healing journey was
how come I get migraines onSunday nights?
How, like there was just certainthings when I started to track
that It was like, Oh my gosh,I'm getting headaches on Sunday
nights because I don't want togo to work the next day.
And my body's like, I know howto get you out of this.
You said you can't handle yourjob anymore, so I'm going to
(32:37):
help set you free.
But even once I got thatawareness, what's the action to
start to deconstruct thissequence of habits my body's
developed to be a pain body?
And for me, my pain was theemotions.
I refused to feel and that wasusually the times in my life
(32:59):
where I had the most chronicpain Was also at times where
there was a lot of emotionalpain that had been stacking and
the physical pain was theperfect Distraction from having
to be with the emotions of whatI was really feeling Yes, and so
it was like me trying not tofeel is what made it hurt so
much because It's like almosthaving this push and pull at the
(33:23):
same time.
So it's like a contracted stuckstate which was if I'm very
stressed out I can't move myneck and part of that like when
I'm deconstructing and coming upwith Understanding my body's
language, which is one of thethings that we teach because we
talked about how can people workwith us?
It kind of breaks down into athree tier step one is you've
got to build awareness first Youcan't start guiding people
(33:47):
without that awareness becausehere's what happens Someone
comes to me and said, I want tojoin your, your coaching
program.
This is what I want to do for ajob.
They come to their first fiveday live event.
Cause when you do our program,you get three, five day
immersive experiences.
The first time is going toilluminate all the places in
your life where you, where youare not coherent, cohesive, and
(34:10):
in harmony with your beliefs,yours, not ours.
And so when that starts to getshown to you, your first kind of
quarter, Is your life getting inalignment?
And I like to look at it likesome people are coming to our
training and they've been livingin a craftsman style bungalow
house of a life and they're nowthey're ready to build and
(34:33):
expand.
But we, we, this isn't a remodelfor them, which means they're
going to have to break all theirwalls down, all their
structures.
They're going to have to build awider foundation and start to
build again.
So they might be in a job thatdoesn't work for them.
They might be in a healingcrisis.
Things that take a differentamount of time.
But they want to go faster.
They want to skip steps.
(34:53):
They want to start making moneyhelping other people.
But the foundation has not beenestablished for them to build
up.
That style of life because themore you support others, if you
don't have a solid foundationfor tools and they have a bad
experience, harm can stillhappen no matter how effective
(35:14):
or efficient or heart driven youare.
And if you don't have afoundation for that, it can
destroy you for two years tohave to face you failed and all
those little things when you'restepping into a career.
Right?
And so phase one, is buildingawareness.
And we have lots of freecourses, we have websites, we
(35:35):
have lots of things to start.
But the way that I recommend itis we do three day events.
They're 1, 000 for all threedays.
You come immerse yourself, getintroduced to the world.
And it's like being dropped inChina in a place where you don't
speak the language if it's new,but you might know, okay, well,
that's the sign for bathroom.
(35:57):
That's a restaurant.
Like you have a basic awarenessof yourself.
But you don't speak thelanguage.
So the first time you come, it'sa bit like a fire hose.
We're giving you information.
You're like, I'm never gonnaremember it all.
You're gonna remember everythingyou need to, right?
And then we have videos andportals.
It's about surrounding yourselfwith community for these types
(36:19):
of conversations.
It's about being in it becausenow it's an embodied experience.
We're including your body.
Versus just a cool concept inthe mind through virtual and
video.
And you know I love AI.
I love it.
I love how it can help me impactlives and save time and support
people more.
But it's not a replacement forhuman connection.
(36:40):
It is a tool to help me connectmore.
So the live events is when we'retaking all these Cool concepts
that they might've been learningvirtually already and putting
them into practice because weend up being in conversations
around racism, gender dynamics,political structures,
patriarchal systems,colonization.
(37:01):
Because we have a very, verydiverse group of people that
come to our trainings fromdifferent age demographics.
My business coach came and spokeat one of our events.
And he said, this is the firsttime that I walked into an event
and I could not tell you whoyour demographic is because it's
so different.
(37:21):
And what that does is thatprovides us an environment to
have the conversations no oneelse is either willing, capable,
or skilled to have.
When I've got someone raisedfrom the hood in Detroit, Who
has been, you know, transphobic,homophobic, or at best, just not
(37:41):
in support, we'll say, of gayrelationships or whatever, to
have someone then be able to sitand have a very productive
conversation with someone that'snon-binary, or two-spirited or,
or a trans person or atransitioned gendered person,
like whatever.
(38:02):
But they can do it with respect.
We are there to help with theterms of engagement of these
challenging conversations, andour intention is not to get to
agreement.
Everyone is there because theywant to understand different.
The goal is not acceptance.
The goal is building tolerance,that you can have a beautiful
(38:23):
life and it not disrupt mine.
And that actually takes workingwith someone's nervous system.
You can't read about that.
And even all the ways we thinkwe're a good person, and then
you come to an event.
And say you look like I do, andyou say I'm not racist, but then
in the conversations you canfeel in your body the activation
of racism or supremacy workingthrough you.
(38:46):
Because you start to see yourjudgments in reflection, even if
you don't say it out loud.
And that's very confronting.
And so when we are able toteach.
And model and show people, yeah,we talked about writing a
nervous system.
Yes, we talked about bodymapping.
We talked about your ownpersonal experience.
(39:07):
But as you sit and consider itfor yourself and hear other
people that are not like you,you can't help but self reflect
in what you thought you knew.
And so for some people that canbe too much and they're better
off to start in consuming thecontent first.
And when they feel ready, whenthey've done some maybe breath
(39:29):
work, some yoga, they have someability to self regulate, which
all that really means is that ifyou get overwhelmed, you know
how to ask for help on site.
We have healers, therapists,doctors, nurses, we have people
of all kinds.
So we have support for everyonethere.
Now we are certainly.
(39:50):
you know, not a replacement forany medical care.
Someone should not come toprocess trauma.
It's that if something was tocome up, we even have a healing
tent.
We have people that know whattheir skill sets are to handle
that.
If, and when something comes up.
Someone doesn't have to stand ata microphone at the front of the
room to process it because somethings are For the first time
(40:13):
can be a little intense.
I find it fascinating that inthe topic of transformation and
perhaps like integrating newstages of life or Moving forward
after you've had big aha's like,oh my goodness I am being
passive aggressive here here orI don't actually understand
(40:35):
boundaries, or I have beenworking at this job for 20 years
and suddenly now it's not thejob for me.
As I understood, that's part,that's integration.
that you help with.
I find it fascinating that inthat conversation of
integration, you purposefullybring in different perspectives
(40:55):
that may create conflict sopeople can feel what is
happening in their body andwhere they are blocking
themselves.
You know, now what do I do?
Totally.
We don't try to dig or invoke ortrigger.
We don't try to do that.
It's that people feel so safe.
They can finally ask thequestions they never could ask
anywhere else because they trustwe've got their back, right?
(41:19):
And so this is the problem Ihave with a lot of
transformative containers I'veattended is they are trying to
trigger you.
But again, then they're outcomedriven versus us.
People are not getting triggeredaccording to like the clinical
meaning of being triggered,which is someone's actually
having like a PTSD remembranceof a traumatic event.
(41:43):
But people feel a way and itdoes bring up things, right?
And they feel safe enough toactually use their voice.
For some people, they'restanding up to the microphone
and their voice is crackingbecause they have never said it
out loud, you know, maybe awhite person being able to
express like the shame they docarry, you know, because they're
now realizing though they arenot a racist, that the systems
(42:07):
of oppression that they benefitfrom, they were unaware and that
unawareness is making them feelbad again, you know, and so it's
that, yeah.
When, when a container tellsyou, or has to say, we, we are
inclusive, we're diverse, andit's a safe space, but I go to
the photos.
(42:27):
and I can see that theirdemographic does not reflect
that, then for me, they want tobe, but they don't truly
understand what is required tocreate a space safe enough for
this many diverse livedexperiences to not only coexist,
but thrive together because theydon't need to be the same.
(42:48):
When we take ownership for ourfeelings, when we take ownership
for the things that happen to usindividually, and we don't have
to compare.
And we don't have to say, Oh,well, Oh, because I was raised
in the Mormon religion where Iwas told we were oppressed
people.
That was my understanding ingrowing up that as a Mormon, I
came from an oppressed people.
(43:10):
Now, in traveling the world andspending time in Israel and in
Arab villages and differentreligions and whatever, living
in Brooklyn, having clients fromso many different parts of the
world, I learned the verysignificant difference.
of the idea of oppression andthe experience of oppression.
(43:33):
And this is like to justunderstand that within myself
and take ownership for theprivileges I have and
recognizing that we all haveprivileges, not this comparative
thing that can happen in theseconversations where it's like,
well, my family was Jewish inthe Holocaust.
Oh, well, my family are nativeAmerican.
You know, the tribe we're fromgot totally wiped out.
(43:55):
There's no pure, Blood, youknow, whatever.
People get locked up in thatbecause they're actually feeling
like a victim.
And when we sit and spend twodays talking about understanding
what we call the oppression traptriangle and you taking
responsibility for where you areversus trying to blame or
(44:17):
outsource or compare, all thoseare driven by your wounds.
And when people can show up andtake ownership and not say
you're making me feel bad, butsaying like, wow, I'm feeling
angry right now when I hear yousay that.
And it can be a dialogue that isprotected, that's guided and
(44:37):
everyone's voice is considered,is present.
It changes everyone's ability tohold space for that and their
family dynamics.
In their relationship dynamics.
I mean, at every live event, myhusband and I end up having
something happen where there'ssome kind of charge between us
(44:58):
or frustration or, you know,we're working five days in a row
sometimes for 12 hours.
So it's a lot, or it can be.
We don't go behind the curtainor handle it after the event.
We handle it right there, whenit shows up, we talk it through
and we model what we teach.
Because if we don't do that,again, I've gone to so many
(45:20):
transformational containers.
Where I can tell that the twopeople leading it are not
cohesive right now, or there'ssomething going on.
And it's distracting, and mybody kind of, you know, clenches
a little bit or contracts alittle bit.
And so we said, the whole pointof this process is to be
(45:40):
handling things in real time.
So, yes, we have a lot ofteaching, but that brings things
up in people.
We are so skilled at this pointbecause we've spent years being
coaches.
T.
O.
S.
spent 25 years clinical as anurse, 23 triaging in New York
City emergency rooms.
We know how to handle people.
And so when we can model.
(46:01):
And I will say that we aremaster coaches in how we can
model handling challengingconversation than whether
someone's a really experiencedcoach or brand new to the space,
but has a level of selfawareness where you've listened
to some Tony Robbins, someAbraham Hicks, some level of
like having a deeperunderstanding of your emotions,
(46:22):
of your body, of how you impactthe world around you.
Everyone gets tremendous valuebecause for some people they've
never seen it modeled.
Right.
And they're like, wow, that waspowerful.
Like to see you all handlesomething in real time and in
front of all these people and wecan tell that it's real, you
know, that is something that I,we want to set the standard for
(46:49):
more events is to, to beauthentic.
When we have financialstruggles, that's what we talk
about.
Right?
When I get 30 overdraft feesbecause of a charge back and a
whatever, we share that becauseI'm tired of people glorifying
transformation.
Some people get addicted totransformation.
(47:10):
You know, we call, we call itthe transformation trap,
tirelessly repeating a painfulprocess.
So they might get into caraccidents regularly, fall off a
horse regularly, get fired fromjobs regularly, or go to every
Tony Robbins event, everylandmark event, every
psychedelic retreat, Bufo,Cambo, Ayahuasca, all of it
(47:35):
because they are addicted to thetransformation.
And they struggle to buildbeyond it.
Yeah.
They don't know what's beyondthe chaos of change.
Right?
And so for us, the CondorApproach is a data driven way
for you to see what's workingand what isn't.
So that your breakthroughs last.
So that your breakdowns don'tlast longer than they need to.
(47:58):
Because a lot of people aresuffering unnecessarily.
There is hard times.
Challenging times.
Painful times.
But for me, suffering is when wethink it's never going to end.
When there's no evidence ofchange.
When my health isn't turning andI've tried everything and I'm
doing all the diets right andI'm doing all the tests and I,
(48:18):
you know, can't figure it outbecause I'm uniquely broken.
All of those Like pieces andparts of yourself that you find
through this process.
The Condor Approach, you can getthe book on Amazon.
It's actually on back orderright now, but when you can get
it.
Congratulations.
Yeah, it's a good problem.
Except for the people trying toget it to keep messaging me.
(48:40):
I'm like, it's not like it'sanother company does that.
I don't know.
Um, but the Condor Approach, Iwatch people when chaos isn't
happening.
They don't feel safe.
Cause they grew up in a housewhere there was a lot of
fighting or a lot of change orthey moved a lot, right?
And so stillness is scary.
Or if they had an abusive parentthat you didn't know, you know,
(49:02):
mental health, you didn't knowwhen they'd snap or yell or
whatever.
And so the Condor approachbrings a way to take all of
these things someone'sexperiencing, processing,
considering into a workbook thathas measurable, simple scoring
that we call the Ease Score.
(49:22):
And the stress score, the easescore is really about how is
your body doing?
Cause the more ease you have,then you're probably going to
have less aches and painsbecause it has you mark little
bits and pieces on a body.
So you start to see trends.
For me, when I am financiallystressed, it hurts in my middle
(49:43):
back between my shoulder blades.
Now what journaling process,Right?
The spine, I like to think aboutit two ways.
If I just top level and if I hadmore time, I'd break it all
down.
But from a top level that I lookat when I'm body mapping, what
is the function of the body partbeing impacted?
(50:05):
And then what is the chakra orchakra as some people call it?
Because they all have emotionalassociations.
And we might be going, that'sprobably a woo conversation for
another time.
Ha ha ha.
So, with my spine, middle, back,spine is structural, right?
Back is support.
(50:26):
Like literally just think ofwhat that body part does.
So it's behind me.
It's support.
It's my spine.
So it's structural.
If you look at my, a lot of my xrays, I used to have a 40 degree
scoliosis curve.
So there was a lot of structuralproblems, right?
But it's when I'm not feelingfinancially supported by my
(50:46):
heart's work.
My heart, it's connection.
It's, it's not, I'm, deficit,scarcity, not enough.
Like I'm giving, I'm pouring outwith my heart and it's not
enough.
Financially, rent's late, bill'snot paid, whatever things that
can be coming up.
But I learned that from trackingthe body, what was going on in
my life, and then what we call,so we have the ease score, then
(51:09):
we have the stress score.
Stress can be financial stress,emotional stress, family stress,
work stress, in essence.
But you start to see like, wow,when I'm more family stressed,
my lower back hurts.
I tend to see more family thingswith the lower back.
And so for us, your genetics,when we say it runs in my
family, what we're saying is thetrauma does, the coping
(51:31):
mechanism does not just thegenetic predisposition to
disease, but the geneticpredisposition to adaptations,
ways of being.
And we're either trying to belike them or oppose them, you
know?
And so it creates that.
Like, I can't tell you how manypeople with, say, scoliosis.
(51:52):
When we did the intake process,and that's one of the things we
teach our coaches.
So that's when someone, youknow, I talked about the entry
level.
This would be the point whensomeone's a coach and they want
to really understand the bodymapping and the childhood
experiences and how that impactshealth now, because I can look
at someone's intake form andalready tell you what will
(52:13):
happen, not what will happen intheir psychedelic experience,
but what on the other side ispossible that they're going to
think or feel.
Just based off of cause andeffect because for us how our
body's operating is aconsequence Consequence with
sequence that's cause and effectYeah, so then the things that
(52:35):
happened caused an effect andjust by seeing someone's intake
form their current health andtheir current job I can tell you
their most likely outcomespsychedelics because we are
binary trained So if someone'shigh performance There is two
most common, and this is a totalgeneralization, the two most
(52:58):
common pot, like, potentials onthe other side of a psychedelic
or entheogenic experience isthat they're afraid of losing
control, and so when they startto lose control they kind of
panic, shortness of breath,fear, I don't like this, sick to
their stomach, heartpalpitations, because it's
actually their fear of losingcontrol.
Or, nothing happens.
(53:21):
And so now they're angry becausethey did everything right, and
they did, I did dieta, and Ifasted that day, and I took just
the right amount, and I lemontected the right amount,
whatever they were told they hadto do to get the best
experience, and nothing happens.
I'm laughing.
Because you can't control it.
That's me.
Which is infuriating.
I find I can move through it alittle easier now, but I'm still
(53:45):
angered by it when it happens.
When I've done everything rightand I don't understand why what
I wanted to happen is nothappening.
That is exactly where my journeydumped me.
And it was the most powerfulstarting place for my life right
there.
So I'm right.
And so all of that bringslessons.
(54:05):
Yeah.
So for us, you know, and this isa great place to kind of drop in
here.
We, we, for us, the only timethere can be a bad trip is when
there was intentional neglect bythe facilitator.
Now, can you integrate thoseexperiences and still have a
very powerful outcome as aresult?
Yes, because it always teachesyou something.
(54:27):
But for us, what most peopleclassify as a bad trip was
actually because it was eitherdark, they were alone, they
didn't feel supported, or theyhad like a deep religious
background or seeing things or.
You know, their judgments onsubstances or some, you know,
something else is making it whyit was a negative experience.
(54:48):
But for us, every experience canbe integrated to be a powerfully
transformative and life changingand life affirming experience
with supported integration.
Now not everybody needs to have,say, an integration coach.
But if you don't at least havecommunity or someone you could
talk to, I've worked with somany people that went down to
Peru or Costa Rica, had somemind bending experience, came
(55:12):
back, had no one to talk to.
And that isolation caused aproblem because now they felt
more separate from theirenvironment.
You know what?
I think I'm going to pause youright here because we are right
at a spot where it's perfect fora break.
I did not expect that therewould be so much in this space.
Of discussing integration beforeand I'm so grateful you spoke to
(55:33):
that because whether you areinterested in psychedelics or
other plant medicine, or whetheryou're not that integration
piece is vital, but I know youhave some exceptionally good
information to share about thegood, the bad, or the ugly about
going into a journey space orlearning plant medicines.
(55:54):
So we're going to pause righthere and do a part two.
So let's pause and tune in forthe next one to learn all about
good, bad, and ugly ofpsychedelics and plant medicine
spaces.
We'll be right back.
Oh, I really am going to be theperson that makes you wait.
(56:16):
But trust me, it will be worthit.
The conversation next time isfull of so much.
Goodness.
But first let's summarize someof the takeaways from this one.
First of all, I love herinsights on the condor flying as
high as a bird can fly 13 footwingspan.
It's still comes to earth to getinto the work and to be a part
(56:37):
of the transformation andbreaking down of the dead and
dying systems and structures.
That it comes to earth.
It stays on the earth to be apart of that evolution.
I think there's so muchsymbolism there.
Not only in the work that needsto be done collectively as we're
breaking down structures andsystems that are not working any
longer in our communities and inour cultures.
(57:00):
But also as we're doing thatwork ourselves, I think
sometimes we think that deepinner work is done on mountain
tops.
And it's done only when it'squiet and only in the light.
And in my experience, in theexperience of so many others
that I've talked to really thework is done on earth in person,
in your life, paying attention.
(57:22):
And being honest and doing thework that's necessary.
Present time.
So I, I love that insight intothe condor and I'm going to keep
that with me.
I also like how she talks abouttransformation traps, where, um,
people get addicted to being ona journey or having some reason
for transformation.
And they might be bringingthemselves trouble in order to
(57:43):
just solve the trouble, likegetting in those loops.
and I loved her insights ongetting out of that.
Shaking yourself awake fromhaving to be in those leaps
loops in the first place.
I lastly, I also really likedhow she talks about the
necessity of pausing onintegration instead of going
from transformation totransformation, really pausing
(58:03):
on what it is you are getting.
In those experiences of change.
And I love her resources.
She has lots of free resources.
She has a podcast with herhusband TA called the
psychedelic coach podcast.
They have lots of transformationand integration resources, also
her book, the condo, herapproach, and her live events.
(58:24):
I put links for all thosethings.
In the show notes.
So for our next time, I am sohappy to be able to share this
information with you.
I actually based theconversation for next episode,
based on questions that I havereceived from people in the
audience And from others that Iknow patients and friends who
are interested in some of theseplant medicines or plant
(58:47):
teachers, Or having a spiritualjourney to get some help that's
kind of outside the box, butthey've also heard stories that
have happened where there's beenabuse or neglect, or they may
know some of the coachesoffering services to other
people.
And if they know the coachespersonally, they know what they
would probably stay away..
So it's how do we choose acoach?
(59:08):
How do we choose what to do?
How do we know what is safe?
And we talk about basically thegood, the bad and the ugly of
all of it.
She's been in this world forover 15 years, lots of different
countries, lots of differentsettings.
Thousands of people that, shehas seen or heard or helped
facilitate.
So we go over critical aspectsto consider when you're choosing
(59:30):
a setting or a facilitator.
So that you can set yourself upfor a safe and transformative
experience.
We also talk about reasons thatpeople seek out these
facilitators or ShawMan or plantmedicines or teachers.
And what they even do.
We talk about what the mostpopular plant teachers are, what
(59:51):
they are and how they're usedand where they come from.
And we talk about the differencebetween a journey in the jungle
or state side, what the legalityis, state side, what the impact
of all of that is and how tofeel and be safer when you are
in a journey.
We talk about what questions toask ahead of time and how you
can better prepare before andintegrate afterward.
(01:00:15):
So that's why we did part one onintegration that sets the stage
for part two, to help us settledeeper into that understanding.
There are just such valuabletools for personal growth.
In the plant medicine orpsychedelic space, but there's
also a load of crap around it,too.
(01:00:35):
So next episode is where we canspeak honestly, about that with
a master coach and I am fullywilling to put in the work to
bring that forward to you then.
I'll meet you here next week.
until then.
Hello and welcome to the WhatReally Makes a Difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whittaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health was tested when my
own health hit a landslide and Ibecame a very sick patient.
(00:22):
I've learned that showing up forour own health and vitality is a
step by step journey that wetake for the rest of our lives.
And this podcast is aboutsharing some of the things that
really make a difference on thatjourney with you.
So grab your explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical
(00:45):
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.
(01:06):
I am so grateful that you havejoined us for this episode
because there is just so muchgood here.
I know there are so many peoplewho are looking for a change and
looking for healing in theirlives.
So many of us have triedtherapy, have tried coaching,
have tried a lot of methods thathave helped maybe still feel
(01:29):
like there is this part of usinside.
That we just can't get tothrough our conscious mind.
And it is at that point thatlots of people start to look for
other methods that can help usgo a little deeper.
Things like psychedelics,ketamine, ayahuasca, or other
plant teachers and spiritualjourneys.
(01:50):
There can be so much good inthat space, and there can also
be so much crap.
And it can be a little bitchallenging to navigate that.
There are some dangers in thatspace.
There's addiction and spiritualbypassing, and there are people
who take advantage of otherpeople while they are under the
(02:12):
influence of the medicine,really.
There is also so much good thatcan happen if you are in a safe
place, if you have qualifiedmentors or shaman, and they can
help walk you throughexperiences in a different way
than many other techniques can.
But how can we navigate that?
How do we find a qualifiedshaman or mentor?
(02:33):
Do we have to go to SouthAmerica?
What is legal?
What isn't legal?
And if your spiritual journeydoes give you some information
that kind of rocks your world,how do you integrate it
afterward?
Is it just about having ajourney and then going home and
you're healed and life iswonderful?
Or.
Can it maybe cause somedisruption and how do you keep
(02:56):
that experience as a workinghelper in your life instead of
just a thing that happened oneweekend that you remember
sometimes?
These are questions that so manypeople have and that I also had.
So I am profoundly grateful thatI got not just one episode but
two episodes of I brought her onbecause there is no one quite
(03:19):
like her for cutting through thecrap with all of the grace, all
of the kindness, and all of thekind of like bird's eye view of
this situation, but withreality, she's not afraid to get
in the real dirt and in the realexperience of things and give us
ways that we can stay with her.
More safe and have experiencesthat help us and that we can
(03:42):
integrate.
So we ultimately are making alife that is more our own and
that's more fulfilling to us.
And she's just a powerful coachand speaker and.
becoming a person that I respectso much.
This is the first out of the twoepisodes and in this one we talk
about the coaching program thatshe and her husband do.
(04:04):
It's called the Condor Approachand it is about integration for
life experiences or aboutgetting help in life
transitions.
It's basically for when you needcoaching and community
environments.
to help you reach for somethingthat is beyond yourself with
support.
So they do coaching for morethan just psychedelic coaches or
(04:28):
plant teacher coaches.
It is not just in that space,it's in general, and that's what
we're talking about in thisepisode.
Integration, transitions, andgiving the basics of her
experience coming to the placethat she is.
To give you a little moreinsight into Cole before we
begin our discussion, she hadtrauma as a child which led to
(04:50):
wanting to step out of things orfind relief from her inner
world.
So she, at a young age, startedto get into drugs when she was a
teenager and ended up havingsome really scary, terrible
experiences with drugs that Madeit so she pivoted entirely.
She became Miss Teen Utah andher platform was anti drug.
(05:14):
Then she became a health coachand a trainer and was
integrating all things healthbut sort of felt like she was
still always trying to outrunher story of previously being an
addict and like nothing wasreally gonna make up for it and
there was It's always somethingto have to reach for or
something to be perfect at inorder to prove her past.
(05:35):
I know many of us can relate toa feeling like that of making up
for decisions or things from ourpast.
She ended up with a lot ofhealth problems herself just at
a place where she needed toreach for something beyond
herself.
In that space, She found somewonderful mentors and guides for
psychedelics and for other plantteachers.
(05:58):
And she dove into that world andstarted facilitating other
people to be able to do that,working with tribes in South
America and going to see sincereshaman and doing the work.
Since then, she has actuallypivoted to Coaching other people
that want to be coaches ortransformation leaders.
(06:20):
So she has kind of been in thetrenches in so many different
arenas having to do with thistopic.
And that's why I'm justincredibly grateful that she's
here.
So without further ado, let's gointo part one where we learn
about the Condor approach,integration and Kohl's history.
I'll see you on the other side.
(06:42):
I am so grateful to be here withCole Witte.
And I know how lucky I am tohave her here.
So she is a founding member.
She and her husband do what iscalled the Condor Approach.
It's integration coaching forbasically transformational
stages in life or for just lifeintegration Ends In general,
(07:05):
they call it psychedelicinformed because they do have a
lot of experience in thepsychedelic space with coaching,
facilitating, holding space forpeople using those plant
medicines, but it's more thanthat.
So to give us a place for whereyou are at and what you do, can
you please explain what theCondor approach is and why it's
(07:25):
called the Condor approach?
Sure.
So first of all, stoked to behere.
It's my favorite conversation.
So any chance I have.
To have it i'm all for itgetting a little bit over a
cold.
So we're going to work withwhat's here for today So, you
know i'll start by backing up alittle bit of what would cause
someone to dedicate their lifeto something That's a little
(07:49):
Vogue, a little rogue, a littleuncertain for a lot of people,
or a lot, just a little sketchyfor some.
So, I grew up in Utah, in theMormon church, and because of
some childhood experiences, itbrought a lot of shame and guilt
into how I translated somechildhood experiences.
(08:10):
And I'm going to leave it therefor today.
But ultimately, there was, bythe time I hit 26 years old,
There was a lot of unresolvedtrauma and also just childhood
experiences that I had created alot of meaning that caused me to
internalize shame and guilt andI was really hard on myself and
it all kind of came to a head at26 years old when I was at
(08:33):
Disneyland and I sat down on theground and started to cry
because I was in so muchphysical pain I couldn't take
another step.
And I was looking at, I washaving one of those moments, I
don't know if you've ever hadone, where you see yourself
outside of yourself in like anironic situation.
And I was seeing the irony ofbeing at the happiest place on
(08:56):
earth.
In the worst pain or one of theworst places I'd been in my
health in my life up tell themand that's saying something So
I'd been in a coma.
I At that point it had like 20something broken bones held at
gunpoint car accidentsEndometriosis, I'd had an
ovarian torsion.
I'd had a lot of health thingsmigraines Up until 26, but this
(09:18):
was that moment where my bodywas telling me, you don't get to
take another step in the waythat you're living life in the
way that you are.
And that's what got me intoworking with psychedelics.
It was just the right friend atjust the right time and just the
right signs for me to lean intogoing that direction.
That led me to South America.
That led me on my healingjourney.
(09:40):
I've been off all medicationssince 2009.
But what it came down to is Ihad to learn how to translate my
body's language.
I learned that my health was ona continuum from ease to dis
ease.
And what I do or don't do movesthe dial.
You're never healed, you'realways healing.
So where am I in my healing?
Right?
Heal thy for healthy.
(10:01):
Do I heal thy mind?
How do I do that?
If I heal thy body, how am Idoing that?
And through My plant medicine,psychedelic master teacher
experiences, that led me down toPeru.
In Peru, the condor, which ourbusiness is called the Condor
Approach, the condor is avulture.
It's one of the biggest birds inthe world.
(10:23):
And it flies the highest, itflies at 16 to 18, 000 feet.
It's got like a 13 footwingspan.
Now because it's a vulture, themessage that kept coming to me
was that part of my path was tobe a part of evolving the dead
and dying system.
And so a vulture is a part ofnature's cleanup crew.
(10:44):
It helps to break down the deadthat the, you know, and help it
be renowned and break down intothe environment.
And that's very much what theCondor has become.
The Condor approach is on onelevel, really people that
consider themselvesevolutionaries.
We know we can't go back towhere we were, but how do we
still maintain awareness aroundwhere we've been?
(11:06):
with a perspective on thehorizon of where we're going and
having that high level view, butthat the condor, as far as
mysticism, is known as amessenger of heaven to earth.
So someone that, for me, that isin that archetype of the condor,
also as high as they fly, comesto the earth to get in the work,
(11:27):
to be a part of thetransformative structures, the
breaking down of old structures,and the condor itself is the
only bird of prey that eats onthe ground.
It doesn't go scoop it and takeit up high.
It actually stays on the earthto do the work, to break it
down.
And so the Condor approach isthe combination of
(11:50):
evolutionaries and people thatwant to be a part of evolving
these systems that are broken,that are, you know, colonized,
that are patriarchal, that arenot working the way that we need
them to.
and also people that are lookingfor more freedom and flexibility
and have done enough work onthemselves that, like the
(12:11):
Condor, they don't need to workso hard so they can ride the
currents of the environments.
They've done enough work onthemselves.
They're not so reactiveexternally.
They can trust themselves thatas the winds change, they can
change.
And that's the Condor reallyrides the drifts and can go an
hour without flapping its wings.
But there is still all of theeffort of takeoff It's still a
(12:35):
big bird, it still takes workto, to make big moves, but it
knows how to trust itself.
And so for us, the Condorapproach is the approach of a
new time, of a new era for thepeople that are here to do the
work and really make changes forhumanity.
Oh, that is the most beautifuldescription of a business name
(12:56):
I've ever heard.
And I feel like, yeah.
Addressing what needs help withthe dead and dying is a subject
we don't hear very much.
We hear about growth, we hearabout 10x, we hear about all
that, but in order for that tohave fertile soil to grow from,
a lot of things that are notworking do have to crumble and
(13:18):
die and that can be A terrifyingplace for some people that can
sometimes be even if, even ifyou've done the work, it can be
hard to be in a position whereyou are watching things crumble
around you.
But from that view, knowing thatyou are sometimes called to be
someone that is seeing thingshappening and being a part of a
(13:42):
conscious pulling apart of whatisn't working and building what
is.
I think that is so beautiful andI'm grateful you're present to
do the work.
Can you tell me about what youhelp people integrate with?
So I've heard you talk aboutlife changes and how you can use
psychedelics and have incrediblelife changes, but it doesn't
(14:06):
require psychedelics to befacing transitions where
something that you were is dyingand, or something that you're
moving into is learning how tolive and breathe.
How do you coach people?
Through that, what do you, whatdo you do in either space?
Yeah.
So this is a really great way tokind of pull all of it in and
(14:29):
then we can, you know, kind ofgo a little bit deeper into
different aspects.
We are going throughtransformational processes
consistently throughout ourlife.
From car accidents to traumas,to a new job, to finishing
college, to, you know, goingfrom medical school into
residency, into becoming adoctor, like all of these
(14:50):
transitions require a newversion of us.
And so let's say for example,something that I've coached when
I did private client work was awoman who had her first baby and
they were calling it postpartumdepression, but we knew in doing
deeper work with her and lookingat the whole picture in an
intake process.
I have a full form that I havepeople fill out that's not just
(15:13):
questions about their mind.
And what I mean by their mind istheir beliefs or what they're
struggling with mental health,but also what's gone on in their
body throughout their lifetime,their beliefs.
If they're first generation, ifthey were raised in a religion,
if they weren't raised in areligion, but in a saturated
religious area, there's certainenvironments.
(15:36):
That cause and effect and ingoing through that process for
this particular woman, therewas, she had what we call multi
construct strain.
Now for me, a construct could bea job.
It could be a religion.
It is a construct.
It's a structure.
And so growing up, she had amother that told her, you know,
(15:57):
to be powerful and independentand she could do anything.
And she did right.
And she had this incredible joband she made six figures and did
all the things.
That she believed she could do amore feminist approach to life
and being able to compete andout in the market.
But then there was the part ofher, raised in a religious
background and out of a desireof her own to be a mother.
(16:20):
And to be home with her kids.
And so what was actuallyhappening in having this first
baby is there was a mourningprocess.
For who she was, what theycalled postpartum depression was
not just a hormone change.
It was an identity change andego death of sorts.
We would call it a psychedelicspace where the version of her
(16:41):
that had worked so hard to go toschool, have 10 years in the
work field, be working with, youknow, fortune 500 companies that
that was going to change for atleast the first two years.
That was the agreement forherself, her partner, you know,
their baby that they wanted thatfull commitment until the baby's
(17:01):
a toddler, right?
That she wanted to be home.
It's easier said, and it's anice idea.
Her primal instinct struggled tobe separate from the
significance she had built inher career.
Now that did not mean she wasn'tgrateful to be a mother and feel
like that was exactly where shewas meant to be.
(17:23):
It was that in trying to It'salmost like because she was
trying to not think or not allowherself to mourn the life that
she lost in her job and herselfbecause she was afraid on an
unconscious level that mightmean she didn't love her baby or
that she regretted it, whichwasn't true, so there was an
(17:44):
avoidant mechanism inside of herdoing this like rollercoaster of
emotions because she's elated tobe a mother and Mourning the
significance and the drive.
And she loved her brain and sheloved her strategy and she loved
that masculine structure ofgetting things done, but she
wasn't trying to change it ortrade it.
(18:05):
And so when we actually from acoaching perspective and what
the Condor approach offers in asituation where it has nothing
to do with psychedelics, but shewent through a transformative
experience where there was abreakdown.
It's a breakdown of the oldversion of her, where how we
could approach something likethat is she wrote a letter to
her former self, to the womanthat was the CEO, to say, no, we
(18:28):
can go back to that.
But right now we made a choiceand she was able to mourn it.
She was able to really be withit and be with the new version
of her.
That's the mother and talk aboutthe future version of her when
the baby gets older, whereshe'll get to reintegrate some
of the parts where she's justchanging focus.
She's not losing anything.
(18:49):
It's just that her prioritieshave shifted, but there, she
didn't realize the depth ofattachment she had built around
her career, that it was like shebuilt this entire existence that
was crumbled like a house ofcards.
And it took her so many years toestablish it felt in an
unconscious level, like shejust.
(19:11):
Like, blew it all away.
Like, she just destroyed it.
Which wasn't really true.
I know people, in fact, I'mstruggling to think of anybody
that I know who has really liveda life that hasn't had some
business fail or a relationshipfail or switched into one realm
(19:32):
from another, thinking it wouldbe fantastic, and then feeling
like you're on a slippery slope.
So, I'm Exactly.
That space, I don't feel likehas a whole lot of support.
I love, I love how you advisethat, and I'm sure you have
different methods.
So if people are going throughtransitions, or wondering what
(19:57):
they can do in those spots, youdo have quite a few free
resources, and different waysthat people can work with you,
right?
Can you tell me what that lookslike and, and what it looks like
to really be aware you're at atransition?
And Yeah.
The, you know, the first keystep that quite often does
(20:19):
benefit people in exploringpsychedelics is that it helps
you on some level, take thepower back into your own hands
and some radical selfresponsibility and sovereignty.
And that's where the benefit cancome in.
And so aside from going downthat path, it's about how do you
increase your self awareness forthe purpose of transformation,
(20:40):
not degradation.
I was always improving myself,but it was because the driver of
that was that I was trying tomake up for everything I thought
I wasn't, anything I felt I'dever done wrong, and it was an
overcompensation.
Driven by guilt and shame.
And that is very common.
(21:00):
Most performers that I know, orpleasers that I know, including
myself, it, you, it, it's liketrying to outrun something, or
prove something, and that'slike, you almost have a
compulsory feeling inside of youthat you have to keep pushing.
And what you're saying is Tolook at the reasons why you're
pushing correct, becauseultimately going back to what I
(21:25):
said about the health is on acontinuum that runs from ease to
disease.
If you are living your life in astate of unease and stress,
that's where we see adrenalfatigue, autoimmune issues, Lyme
disease type symptoms, Lymedisease recurrence, or where it
kind of takes over the body,because the body's in such a
state of stress it cannot heal.
(21:45):
And so where, what can youcontrol, right?
If you got bit by a tick and youhave Lyme, you can't change
that.
But there's other ways that youcan lower the, as Alex Scharf in
My Business Coach calls it,lower the pressure and noise.
in other ways in your life togive your body an opportunity to
heal.
That means you're going to haveto have an awareness outside of
(22:06):
just what you're consuming withyour mouth.
It's how are you honoringboundaries for yourself and
others?
How are you with peoplepleasing, putting other people's
needs first, right?
All of those things you have todevelop, or you have the
opportunity when you develop aradical awareness of what drives
you to do what you do.
(22:27):
And it, you might end up stilldoing the same thing on the
other side and how you servepeople.
But when you do it because ofyou truly in your heart feel
that's what you're called to doversus obligation or shame or
guilt, that's the difference inyour health.
So cause the thing is in theCondor approach, we've done over
300, 000 in contributions,scholarship, underserved
(22:51):
communities, people that don'thave access to these types of
tools.
And so I'm still helping people.
In tons of different ways, thedifference is now, one, I don't
need approval from anyone,right?
And being a white person, awhite bodied female in the
psychedelic space, you do getquestioned around where did you
(23:13):
learn?
Who did you learn from?
How are you contributing toindigenous communities?
And I had to do the deeper workto get clear with the elders I
needed to be clear with.
God, the way I needed to beclear with, and beyond that, I
don't care what anybody says.
And that was important work forme to do because now I don't
(23:33):
play small with my actions.
Where when I first got into thisfield and wanting to help
people, when you as a coach, asa doctor, as a healer, are so
focused on the other persongetting results, not Where they
actually are and what they wantto do and what they're able to
do.
It becomes about you and youroutcome and you wanting to be
(23:56):
successful or you wanting tohelp them.
But now you've pedestalizedyourself looking down on them
that where they're, where theyare is not good enough.
And so you want the breakthroughfor them so bad because you want
them to be happy and healthy.
Yes.
But then it becomes about you.
And so there's this veryinteresting, intricate, sticky
(24:18):
situation you can get in withyour ego if you are not
operating from a, just kind ofclearing the lines.
I see it just like plumbing, youknow, where it's like if you go
to a house that's been kind oflike the faucets haven't been
used for a while, you turn onthe faucet, it kind of runs
dirty for a little bit.
We, if we want to be of serviceand most authentically as
(24:40):
possible, we want to clear ourlines.
So that what is coming throughis not only genuine, but also
authentic.
And I think that even peoplethat have been raised to be
contribution driven and serviceoriented.
It's always genuine, but it'snot always authentic because
that day they didn't want to,they didn't draw a boundary.
(25:03):
They feel obligated because it'sfamily.
And so it no longer is authenticthe service.
That's where we see passiveaggressive behavior.
And on a deeper level, if we hada parent that gave significance
and love for high achievementand took it away, we might not
call that trauma.
But in our field, we would callthat a lower T trauma where the
(25:23):
person develops a highperformance mechanism inside of
them.
Because if I don't perform, Idon't get loved.
If I don't get love andattention, I get cast out of the
tribe and I will die out in thewilderness.
And so it's a primal instinctualthing.
And so when we do that work,then we actually have a greater
fountain to pour into others.
(25:45):
Because it's like we havecleared out those pipes so more
can pass through, you know?
And so for me, when I did thatwork, it meant that I didn't
need anyone to change.
I was able to fully accept themand love them and say, I will
support you in changing the waysthat you want.
To me, you don't, you don't haveto, you don't.
(26:05):
Now, if you're not happy, youmight want to change some
things, but I don't require itas a coach, as a healer, helping
people build their business.
Because at the end of the day,None of that actually matters.
I want people to have a placewhere they feel safe to be
themself, to be honest withthemself and explore themself,
and you know, and not, can I getthem the outcome, because then
(26:30):
it's actually about me.
You know, you just encapsulatedin only a few minutes basically
the most intense two years I'veever had in my life.
Was unpacking just that.
I worked with a provider.
That was an incredibly brilliantpractitioner and a minister and
(26:50):
genuinely wanted my good and wasso well versed in things.
But when I started not healingas fast as his.
Uh, patients usually would andit started to mess with his
stats and his success.
Then it really shifted intosomething that was different.
There was, I got to feel what itwas like when ego was not on
stage and when ego was on stageand it made everything just a
(27:12):
lot stickier and a lot harder.
I finally ended up stopping workwith him and, and it taught me a
lot about as a practitioner oras a coach or I mean as, Any
person in any field, when youhave a skill set and you want to
share it, I think the driver ofbeing of service is amazing, but
(27:35):
when your ego gets in there, itreally muddies the waters.
I now can't really suggest thatother people go see him because
I know about the muddy waterthat can come in, which is
frustrating.
But when I.
Stepped out of that space withthat doctor and into a different
mentor.
(27:55):
He was all about what you'vebeen talking about.
Going into what it is that isgiving me a clear yes for things
or a clear no for things.
And I realized I did not havethat.
A clear yes or a no.
My instincts to serve and helpand love in my business, in my
family, in my neighborhood, mycommunity, in the world were so
(28:20):
high that all I knew was theinstinct to do that and I wasn't
questioning A, the cost, but B,where it was coming from because
I learned there can be a clearyes where I am aligned and then
there also can be Sure, I'll dothat, but really I don't want
(28:40):
to, and then I'm going to do itanyway, and then I end up
resenting you.
I learned that the biggest blockto a loving relationship was
actually me saying things thatweren't true, like saying I am
good with doing something whenI'm not, or stepping forward to
serve when I'm tired.
It was me trying to be theperson that I had held up on a
(29:03):
pedestal that always serves, isnever tired.
It's always friendly.
It's always happy.
Holding that person I wanted tobe instead of the reality of how
I felt right then caused me justa myriad of problems and not
until I looked into why I dothat did it begin to help.
(29:25):
So if you're doing that topeople in many different stages
of life or of learning or inmonetary capacity I, I just
can't think of a better workthat there is to offer, really.
Yeah, you know, that whensomeone's in a situation,
especially if they'rechronically ill or they're
(29:47):
struggling with things.
A lot of times they are alreadyin shame spirals of not
enoughness or too muchness,right?
Like my dis-ease and my illnessis too much for the people
around me, right?
They can't understand I'm aninconvenience and I'm not enough
because I don't have enoughenergy to do all the things I
used to be able to do, or I'mcommitting to, or I'm comparing
(30:08):
to somebody else.
And so those shame spirals arealready there.
So for a healer, a shaman, afacilitator, whoever a parent.
When we are outcome driven, weare more likely to trigger the
shame spiral further.
So if you're not getting theresults, whether it's as a
patient or, you know, going on apsychedelic experience, working
(30:29):
and sitting with these masterteachers, if you already have a
propensity to blame yourself,shame yourself, guilt yourself,
then that's all that is going todo in response.
Is if you go to someone that'slike, look, most of the people
that come to me, they havegotten more results by now.
So what's actually going on andyou're not doing it right, which
(30:50):
is usually why people are in thehealth state that they're in is
because they're already doingthat to themselves.
And so it's how then do you,how, even once you have the
awareness, that doesn't mean itchanges.
Because here's the thing, thebody's process oriented.
So we can have a big realizationin our head or in our heart, but
(31:11):
the body takes time, right?
It's like going to the gym andworking out.
Just because I decide tomorrowthat I want to have a six pack
or I go start, you know, doingsquats with heavier weights, I
want to build a bigger booty orwhatever.
That's not one day in the gymtomorrow.
That means now I'm going toenter a period of being in
(31:31):
process.
To that outcome that I want andso especially when it comes to
our bodies and how it might beExpressing I like to first
start.
Yes.
We have a realization of themind then What do we do with it?
Right because from what itsounds like you're saying you
already were starting to havethe awareness around these
things But then it was a processof experiencing it and taking
(31:55):
that knowledge into a wisdomthat you understood on a deeper
level.
And then you probably had tostart exploring tools and foods
and relationships andenvironments and how come today
was a great day.
And yesterday was a terrible daywhen really the environment
overall didn't change.
You just start to see as yourawareness increases certain
(32:15):
patterns and trends.
And that's what I started to dowith my own healing journey was
how come I get migraines onSunday nights?
How, like there was just certainthings when I started to track
that It was like, Oh my gosh,I'm getting headaches on Sunday
nights because I don't want togo to work the next day.
And my body's like, I know howto get you out of this.
You said you can't handle yourjob anymore, so I'm going to
(32:37):
help set you free.
But even once I got thatawareness, what's the action to
start to deconstruct thissequence of habits my body's
developed to be a pain body?
And for me, my pain was theemotions.
I refused to feel and that wasusually the times in my life
(32:59):
where I had the most chronicpain Was also at times where
there was a lot of emotionalpain that had been stacking and
the physical pain was theperfect Distraction from having
to be with the emotions of whatI was really feeling Yes, and so
it was like me trying not tofeel is what made it hurt so
much because It's like almosthaving this push and pull at the
(33:23):
same time.
So it's like a contracted stuckstate which was if I'm very
stressed out I can't move myneck and part of that like when
I'm deconstructing and coming upwith Understanding my body's
language, which is one of thethings that we teach because we
talked about how can people workwith us?
It kind of breaks down into athree tier step one is you've
got to build awareness first Youcan't start guiding people
(33:47):
without that awareness becausehere's what happens Someone
comes to me and said, I want tojoin your, your coaching
program.
This is what I want to do for ajob.
They come to their first fiveday live event.
Cause when you do our program,you get three, five day
immersive experiences.
The first time is going toilluminate all the places in
your life where you, where youare not coherent, cohesive, and
(34:10):
in harmony with your beliefs,yours, not ours.
And so when that starts to getshown to you, your first kind of
quarter, Is your life getting inalignment?
And I like to look at it likesome people are coming to our
training and they've been livingin a craftsman style bungalow
house of a life and they're nowthey're ready to build and
(34:33):
expand.
But we, we, this isn't a remodelfor them, which means they're
going to have to break all theirwalls down, all their
structures.
They're going to have to build awider foundation and start to
build again.
So they might be in a job thatdoesn't work for them.
They might be in a healingcrisis.
Things that take a differentamount of time.
But they want to go faster.
They want to skip steps.
(34:53):
They want to start making moneyhelping other people.
But the foundation has not beenestablished for them to build
up.
That style of life because themore you support others, if you
don't have a solid foundationfor tools and they have a bad
experience, harm can stillhappen no matter how effective
(35:14):
or efficient or heart driven youare.
And if you don't have afoundation for that, it can
destroy you for two years tohave to face you failed and all
those little things when you'restepping into a career.
Right?
And so phase one, is buildingawareness.
And we have lots of freecourses, we have websites, we
(35:35):
have lots of things to start.
But the way that I recommend itis we do three day events.
They're 1, 000 for all threedays.
You come immerse yourself, getintroduced to the world.
And it's like being dropped inChina in a place where you don't
speak the language if it's new,but you might know, okay, well,
that's the sign for bathroom.
(35:57):
That's a restaurant.
Like you have a basic awarenessof yourself.
But you don't speak thelanguage.
So the first time you come, it'sa bit like a fire hose.
We're giving you information.
You're like, I'm never gonnaremember it all.
You're gonna remember everythingyou need to, right?
And then we have videos andportals.
It's about surrounding yourselfwith community for these types
(36:19):
of conversations.
It's about being in it becausenow it's an embodied experience.
We're including your body.
Versus just a cool concept inthe mind through virtual and
video.
And you know I love AI.
I love it.
I love how it can help me impactlives and save time and support
people more.
But it's not a replacement forhuman connection.
(36:40):
It is a tool to help me connectmore.
So the live events is when we'retaking all these Cool concepts
that they might've been learningvirtually already and putting
them into practice because weend up being in conversations
around racism, gender dynamics,political structures,
patriarchal systems,colonization.
(37:01):
Because we have a very, verydiverse group of people that
come to our trainings fromdifferent age demographics.
My business coach came and spokeat one of our events.
And he said, this is the firsttime that I walked into an event
and I could not tell you whoyour demographic is because it's
so different.
(37:21):
And what that does is thatprovides us an environment to
have the conversations no oneelse is either willing, capable,
or skilled to have.
When I've got someone raisedfrom the hood in Detroit, Who
has been, you know, transphobic,homophobic, or at best, just not
(37:41):
in support, we'll say, of gayrelationships or whatever, to
have someone then be able to sitand have a very productive
conversation with someone that'snon-binary, or two-spirited or,
or a trans person or atransitioned gendered person,
like whatever.
(38:02):
But they can do it with respect.
We are there to help with theterms of engagement of these
challenging conversations, andour intention is not to get to
agreement.
Everyone is there because theywant to understand different.
The goal is not acceptance.
The goal is building tolerance,that you can have a beautiful
(38:23):
life and it not disrupt mine.
And that actually takes workingwith someone's nervous system.
You can't read about that.
And even all the ways we thinkwe're a good person, and then
you come to an event.
And say you look like I do, andyou say I'm not racist, but then
in the conversations you canfeel in your body the activation
of racism or supremacy workingthrough you.
(38:46):
Because you start to see yourjudgments in reflection, even if
you don't say it out loud.
And that's very confronting.
And so when we are able toteach.
And model and show people, yeah,we talked about writing a
nervous system.
Yes, we talked about bodymapping.
We talked about your ownpersonal experience.
(39:07):
But as you sit and consider itfor yourself and hear other
people that are not like you,you can't help but self reflect
in what you thought you knew.
And so for some people that canbe too much and they're better
off to start in consuming thecontent first.
And when they feel ready, whenthey've done some maybe breath
(39:29):
work, some yoga, they have someability to self regulate, which
all that really means is that ifyou get overwhelmed, you know
how to ask for help on site.
We have healers, therapists,doctors, nurses, we have people
of all kinds.
So we have support for everyonethere.
Now we are certainly.
(39:50):
you know, not a replacement forany medical care.
Someone should not come toprocess trauma.
It's that if something was tocome up, we even have a healing
tent.
We have people that know whattheir skill sets are to handle
that.
If, and when something comes up.
Someone doesn't have to stand ata microphone at the front of the
room to process it because somethings are For the first time
(40:13):
can be a little intense.
I find it fascinating that inthe topic of transformation and
perhaps like integrating newstages of life or Moving forward
after you've had big aha's like,oh my goodness I am being
passive aggressive here here orI don't actually understand
(40:35):
boundaries, or I have beenworking at this job for 20 years
and suddenly now it's not thejob for me.
As I understood, that's part,that's integration.
that you help with.
I find it fascinating that inthat conversation of
integration, you purposefullybring in different perspectives
(40:55):
that may create conflict sopeople can feel what is
happening in their body andwhere they are blocking
themselves.
You know, now what do I do?
Totally.
We don't try to dig or invoke ortrigger.
We don't try to do that.
It's that people feel so safe.
They can finally ask thequestions they never could ask
anywhere else because they trustwe've got their back, right?
(41:19):
And so this is the problem Ihave with a lot of
transformative containers I'veattended is they are trying to
trigger you.
But again, then they're outcomedriven versus us.
People are not getting triggeredaccording to like the clinical
meaning of being triggered,which is someone's actually
having like a PTSD remembranceof a traumatic event.
(41:43):
But people feel a way and itdoes bring up things, right?
And they feel safe enough toactually use their voice.
For some people, they'restanding up to the microphone
and their voice is crackingbecause they have never said it
out loud, you know, maybe awhite person being able to
express like the shame they docarry, you know, because they're
now realizing though they arenot a racist, that the systems
(42:07):
of oppression that they benefitfrom, they were unaware and that
unawareness is making them feelbad again, you know, and so it's
that, yeah.
When, when a container tellsyou, or has to say, we, we are
inclusive, we're diverse, andit's a safe space, but I go to
the photos.
(42:27):
and I can see that theirdemographic does not reflect
that, then for me, they want tobe, but they don't truly
understand what is required tocreate a space safe enough for
this many diverse livedexperiences to not only coexist,
but thrive together because theydon't need to be the same.
(42:48):
When we take ownership for ourfeelings, when we take ownership
for the things that happen to usindividually, and we don't have
to compare.
And we don't have to say, Oh,well, Oh, because I was raised
in the Mormon religion where Iwas told we were oppressed
people.
That was my understanding ingrowing up that as a Mormon, I
came from an oppressed people.
(43:10):
Now, in traveling the world andspending time in Israel and in
Arab villages and differentreligions and whatever, living
in Brooklyn, having clients fromso many different parts of the
world, I learned the verysignificant difference.
of the idea of oppression andthe experience of oppression.
(43:33):
And this is like to justunderstand that within myself
and take ownership for theprivileges I have and
recognizing that we all haveprivileges, not this comparative
thing that can happen in theseconversations where it's like,
well, my family was Jewish inthe Holocaust.
Oh, well, my family are nativeAmerican.
You know, the tribe we're fromgot totally wiped out.
(43:55):
There's no pure, Blood, youknow, whatever.
People get locked up in thatbecause they're actually feeling
like a victim.
And when we sit and spend twodays talking about understanding
what we call the oppression traptriangle and you taking
responsibility for where you areversus trying to blame or
(44:17):
outsource or compare, all thoseare driven by your wounds.
And when people can show up andtake ownership and not say
you're making me feel bad, butsaying like, wow, I'm feeling
angry right now when I hear yousay that.
And it can be a dialogue that isprotected, that's guided and
(44:37):
everyone's voice is considered,is present.
It changes everyone's ability tohold space for that and their
family dynamics.
In their relationship dynamics.
I mean, at every live event, myhusband and I end up having
something happen where there'ssome kind of charge between us
(44:58):
or frustration or, you know,we're working five days in a row
sometimes for 12 hours.
So it's a lot, or it can be.
We don't go behind the curtainor handle it after the event.
We handle it right there, whenit shows up, we talk it through
and we model what we teach.
Because if we don't do that,again, I've gone to so many
(45:20):
transformational containers.
Where I can tell that the twopeople leading it are not
cohesive right now, or there'ssomething going on.
And it's distracting, and mybody kind of, you know, clenches
a little bit or contracts alittle bit.
And so we said, the whole pointof this process is to be
(45:40):
handling things in real time.
So, yes, we have a lot ofteaching, but that brings things
up in people.
We are so skilled at this pointbecause we've spent years being
coaches.
T.
O.
S.
spent 25 years clinical as anurse, 23 triaging in New York
City emergency rooms.
We know how to handle people.
And so when we can model.
(46:01):
And I will say that we aremaster coaches in how we can
model handling challengingconversation than whether
someone's a really experiencedcoach or brand new to the space,
but has a level of selfawareness where you've listened
to some Tony Robbins, someAbraham Hicks, some level of
like having a deeperunderstanding of your emotions,
(46:22):
of your body, of how you impactthe world around you.
Everyone gets tremendous valuebecause for some people they've
never seen it modeled.
Right.
And they're like, wow, that waspowerful.
Like to see you all handlesomething in real time and in
front of all these people and wecan tell that it's real, you
know, that is something that I,we want to set the standard for
(46:49):
more events is to, to beauthentic.
When we have financialstruggles, that's what we talk
about.
Right?
When I get 30 overdraft feesbecause of a charge back and a
whatever, we share that becauseI'm tired of people glorifying
transformation.
Some people get addicted totransformation.
(47:10):
You know, we call, we call itthe transformation trap,
tirelessly repeating a painfulprocess.
So they might get into caraccidents regularly, fall off a
horse regularly, get fired fromjobs regularly, or go to every
Tony Robbins event, everylandmark event, every
psychedelic retreat, Bufo,Cambo, Ayahuasca, all of it
(47:35):
because they are addicted to thetransformation.
And they struggle to buildbeyond it.
Yeah.
They don't know what's beyondthe chaos of change.
Right?
And so for us, the CondorApproach is a data driven way
for you to see what's workingand what isn't.
So that your breakthroughs last.
So that your breakdowns don'tlast longer than they need to.
(47:58):
Because a lot of people aresuffering unnecessarily.
There is hard times.
Challenging times.
Painful times.
But for me, suffering is when wethink it's never going to end.
When there's no evidence ofchange.
When my health isn't turning andI've tried everything and I'm
doing all the diets right andI'm doing all the tests and I,
(48:18):
you know, can't figure it outbecause I'm uniquely broken.
All of those Like pieces andparts of yourself that you find
through this process.
The Condor Approach, you can getthe book on Amazon.
It's actually on back orderright now, but when you can get
it.
Congratulations.
Yeah, it's a good problem.
Except for the people trying toget it to keep messaging me.
(48:40):
I'm like, it's not like it'sanother company does that.
I don't know.
Um, but the Condor Approach, Iwatch people when chaos isn't
happening.
They don't feel safe.
Cause they grew up in a housewhere there was a lot of
fighting or a lot of change orthey moved a lot, right?
And so stillness is scary.
Or if they had an abusive parentthat you didn't know, you know,
(49:02):
mental health, you didn't knowwhen they'd snap or yell or
whatever.
And so the Condor approachbrings a way to take all of
these things someone'sexperiencing, processing,
considering into a workbook thathas measurable, simple scoring
that we call the Ease Score.
(49:22):
And the stress score, the easescore is really about how is
your body doing?
Cause the more ease you have,then you're probably going to
have less aches and painsbecause it has you mark little
bits and pieces on a body.
So you start to see trends.
For me, when I am financiallystressed, it hurts in my middle
(49:43):
back between my shoulder blades.
Now what journaling process,Right?
The spine, I like to think aboutit two ways.
If I just top level and if I hadmore time, I'd break it all
down.
But from a top level that I lookat when I'm body mapping, what
is the function of the body partbeing impacted?
(50:05):
And then what is the chakra orchakra as some people call it?
Because they all have emotionalassociations.
And we might be going, that'sprobably a woo conversation for
another time.
Ha ha ha.
So, with my spine, middle, back,spine is structural, right?
Back is support.
(50:26):
Like literally just think ofwhat that body part does.
So it's behind me.
It's support.
It's my spine.
So it's structural.
If you look at my, a lot of my xrays, I used to have a 40 degree
scoliosis curve.
So there was a lot of structuralproblems, right?
But it's when I'm not feelingfinancially supported by my
(50:46):
heart's work.
My heart, it's connection.
It's, it's not, I'm, deficit,scarcity, not enough.
Like I'm giving, I'm pouring outwith my heart and it's not
enough.
Financially, rent's late, bill'snot paid, whatever things that
can be coming up.
But I learned that from trackingthe body, what was going on in
my life, and then what we call,so we have the ease score, then
(51:09):
we have the stress score.
Stress can be financial stress,emotional stress, family stress,
work stress, in essence.
But you start to see like, wow,when I'm more family stressed,
my lower back hurts.
I tend to see more family thingswith the lower back.
And so for us, your genetics,when we say it runs in my
family, what we're saying is thetrauma does, the coping
(51:31):
mechanism does not just thegenetic predisposition to
disease, but the geneticpredisposition to adaptations,
ways of being.
And we're either trying to belike them or oppose them, you
know?
And so it creates that.
Like, I can't tell you how manypeople with, say, scoliosis.
(51:52):
When we did the intake process,and that's one of the things we
teach our coaches.
So that's when someone, youknow, I talked about the entry
level.
This would be the point whensomeone's a coach and they want
to really understand the bodymapping and the childhood
experiences and how that impactshealth now, because I can look
at someone's intake form andalready tell you what will
(52:13):
happen, not what will happen intheir psychedelic experience,
but what on the other side ispossible that they're going to
think or feel.
Just based off of cause andeffect because for us how our
body's operating is aconsequence Consequence with
sequence that's cause and effectYeah, so then the things that
(52:35):
happened caused an effect andjust by seeing someone's intake
form their current health andtheir current job I can tell you
their most likely outcomespsychedelics because we are
binary trained So if someone'shigh performance There is two
most common, and this is a totalgeneralization, the two most
(52:58):
common pot, like, potentials onthe other side of a psychedelic
or entheogenic experience isthat they're afraid of losing
control, and so when they startto lose control they kind of
panic, shortness of breath,fear, I don't like this, sick to
their stomach, heartpalpitations, because it's
actually their fear of losingcontrol.
Or, nothing happens.
(53:21):
And so now they're angry becausethey did everything right, and
they did, I did dieta, and Ifasted that day, and I took just
the right amount, and I lemontected the right amount,
whatever they were told they hadto do to get the best
experience, and nothing happens.
I'm laughing.
Because you can't control it.
That's me.
Which is infuriating.
I find I can move through it alittle easier now, but I'm still
(53:45):
angered by it when it happens.
When I've done everything rightand I don't understand why what
I wanted to happen is nothappening.
That is exactly where my journeydumped me.
And it was the most powerfulstarting place for my life right
there.
So I'm right.
And so all of that bringslessons.
(54:05):
Yeah.
So for us, you know, and this isa great place to kind of drop in
here.
We, we, for us, the only timethere can be a bad trip is when
there was intentional neglect bythe facilitator.
Now, can you integrate thoseexperiences and still have a
very powerful outcome as aresult?
Yes, because it always teachesyou something.
(54:27):
But for us, what most peopleclassify as a bad trip was
actually because it was eitherdark, they were alone, they
didn't feel supported, or theyhad like a deep religious
background or seeing things or.
You know, their judgments onsubstances or some, you know,
something else is making it whyit was a negative experience.
(54:48):
But for us, every experience canbe integrated to be a powerfully
transformative and life changingand life affirming experience
with supported integration.
Now not everybody needs to have,say, an integration coach.
But if you don't at least havecommunity or someone you could
talk to, I've worked with somany people that went down to
Peru or Costa Rica, had somemind bending experience, came
(55:12):
back, had no one to talk to.
And that isolation caused aproblem because now they felt
more separate from theirenvironment.
You know what?
I think I'm going to pause youright here because we are right
at a spot where it's perfect fora break.
I did not expect that therewould be so much in this space.
Of discussing integration beforeand I'm so grateful you spoke to
(55:33):
that because whether you areinterested in psychedelics or
other plant medicine, or whetheryou're not that integration
piece is vital, but I know youhave some exceptionally good
information to share about thegood, the bad, or the ugly about
going into a journey space orlearning plant medicines.
(55:54):
So we're going to pause righthere and do a part two.
So let's pause and tune in forthe next one to learn all about
good, bad, and ugly ofpsychedelics and plant medicine
spaces.
We'll be right back.
Oh, I really am going to be theperson that makes you wait.
(56:16):
But trust me, it will be worthit.
The conversation next time isfull of so much.
Goodness.
But first let's summarize someof the takeaways from this one.
First of all, I love herinsights on the condor flying as
high as a bird can fly 13 footwingspan.
It's still comes to earth to getinto the work and to be a part
(56:37):
of the transformation andbreaking down of the dead and
dying systems and structures.
That it comes to earth.
It stays on the earth to be apart of that evolution.
I think there's so muchsymbolism there.
Not only in the work that needsto be done collectively as we're
breaking down structures andsystems that are not working any
longer in our communities and inour cultures.
(57:00):
But also as we're doing thatwork ourselves, I think
sometimes we think that deepinner work is done on mountain
tops.
And it's done only when it'squiet and only in the light.
And in my experience, in theexperience of so many others
that I've talked to really thework is done on earth in person,
in your life, paying attention.
(57:22):
And being honest and doing thework that's necessary.
Present time.
So I, I love that insight intothe condor and I'm going to keep
that with me.
I also like how she talks abouttransformation traps, where, um,
people get addicted to being ona journey or having some reason
for transformation.
And they might be bringingthemselves trouble in order to
(57:43):
just solve the trouble, likegetting in those loops.
and I loved her insights ongetting out of that.
Shaking yourself awake fromhaving to be in those leaps
loops in the first place.
I lastly, I also really likedhow she talks about the
necessity of pausing onintegration instead of going
from transformation totransformation, really pausing
(58:03):
on what it is you are getting.
In those experiences of change.
And I love her resources.
She has lots of free resources.
She has a podcast with herhusband TA called the
psychedelic coach podcast.
They have lots of transformationand integration resources, also
her book, the condo, herapproach, and her live events.
(58:24):
I put links for all thosethings.
In the show notes.
So for our next time, I am sohappy to be able to share this
information with you.
I actually based theconversation for next episode,
based on questions that I havereceived from people in the
audience And from others that Iknow patients and friends who
are interested in some of theseplant medicines or plant
(58:47):
teachers, Or having a spiritualjourney to get some help that's
kind of outside the box, butthey've also heard stories that
have happened where there's beenabuse or neglect, or they may
know some of the coachesoffering services to other
people.
And if they know the coachespersonally, they know what they
would probably stay away..
So it's how do we choose acoach?
(59:08):
How do we choose what to do?
How do we know what is safe?
And we talk about basically thegood, the bad and the ugly of
all of it.
She's been in this world forover 15 years, lots of different
countries, lots of differentsettings.
Thousands of people that, shehas seen or heard or helped
facilitate.
So we go over critical aspectsto consider when you're choosing
(59:30):
a setting or a facilitator.
So that you can set yourself upfor a safe and transformative
experience.
We also talk about reasons thatpeople seek out these
facilitators or ShawMan or plantmedicines or teachers.
And what they even do.
We talk about what the mostpopular plant teachers are, what
(59:51):
they are and how they're usedand where they come from.
And we talk about the differencebetween a journey in the jungle
or state side, what the legalityis, state side, what the impact
of all of that is and how tofeel and be safer when you are
in a journey.
We talk about what questions toask ahead of time and how you
can better prepare before andintegrate afterward.
(01:00:15):
So that's why we did part one onintegration that sets the stage
for part two, to help us settledeeper into that understanding.
There are just such valuabletools for personal growth.
In the plant medicine orpsychedelic space, but there's
also a load of crap around it,too.
(01:00:35):
So next episode is where we canspeak honestly, about that with
a master coach and I am fullywilling to put in the work to
bring that forward to you then.
I'll meet you here next week.
until then.
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