February 27, 2024 • 47 mins
In today’s episode we get to hear stories and insights from Abigail Levie, a young entrepreneur in the health and baking sector. Abigail tells the story of founding Abigail's Oven Sourdough Bakery, a business she started at the age of 10. Thanks to her sourdough preparation methods and the way she chooses her flour suppliers her bread is much friendlier for gluten-sensitive individuals, including her father and so many of us.. Abigail went on to learn about agriculture and soil science, and she now seeks to connect farmers to resources that can aid in sustainable farming. This episode emphasizes the importance of the origin and processing methods of our food, and champions a hopeful future in which more people join movements to act sustainably.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:05 Introducing the Guest: Abigail Levi
01:36 Abigail's Journey into Entrepreneurship
02:00 The Health Benefits of Sourdough Bread
02:12 Abigail's Education and Career in Sustainable Agriculture
02:55 Conversation with Abigail Levi
04:57 The Story Behind Abigail's Oven Sourdough Bakery
05:34 The Role of Family in Abigail's Business
11:25 The Health Benefits of Sourdough Bread Revisited
19:56 The Growth and Mission of Abigail's Oven
20:39 Abigail's Religious Mission and the Impact of Natural Foods
22:24 Experience with Bread in Different Countries
22:40 The Impact of Fermentation and Harvesting Styles on Bread
23:23 The Trade-off Between Convenience and Nutrition in Bread Production
24:02 The Quality of Flour and Its Impact on Bread
25:27 Choosing the Right Flour for Baking
25:59 Understanding the Difference Between Wheat Flour and White Flour
26:51 The Importance of Freshly Ground Grains
27:22 The Role of Fermentation in Unlocking Nutrients
28:56 The Impact of Pesticides on Wheat and Flour
30:27 Choosing the Right Flour for Your Needs
34:40 The Journey from London to Studying Small Business Management
36:05 Exploring Agriculture and Soil Health
37:18 The Connection Between Soil Health and Healthy Bodies
37:38 The Role of Farming in Society and the Environment
38:59 The Future of Farming and Soil Regeneration
41:53 The Importance of Connecting Farmers with Information and Resources
44:25 A Message of Hope for the Future of Farming and Nutrition
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the whatreally makes a difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whitaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health.
Was tested when my own healthhit a landslide and I became a
(00:20):
very sick patient I've learnedthat showing up for our own
health and vitality is a step bystep journey that we take for
the rest of our lives and Thispodcast is about sharing some of
the things that really make adifference on that journey with
you So grab your Explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
(00:41):
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.
(01:01):
Ooh, welcome to today's episode.
I am so glad you are here.
We are recording with MissAbigail Levi and she is of a
little bit younger generationthan most of the podcast.
And I think you will see why I'mexcited to have her on the show.
When we really get into it, sheis only in her early twenties
and already has so much lifeexperience behind her in
(01:23):
business, in health, incultivation of health, not only
with what she sells in businessand in the cultivation of health
through some surprising ways.
So a little more about her.
She's an entrepreneur and hasbeen since she was age 10.
She founded Abigail's OvenSourdough Bakery and it is one
(01:44):
of the only breads that I, as avery gluten sensitive person,
can eat.
I seek out her bread and itactually helps my stomach feel
better, not worse.
So we talk about why that can bethe case and what it is that she
does different in the bread.
So for those of you who may havea gluten sensitivity or
autoimmune issues, please tunein to this episode because it
(02:07):
just may turn out that you couldeat some bread again.
Ha ha ha ha! She studied smallbusiness management at BYU Idaho
and that led to a passion forsustainable agriculture.
She graduated from the GeorgicSchoolroom in Nevada, which
focuses on sustainable farmingand agriculture.
Now she works at the GeorgicRevolution and does marketing
(02:30):
and recruiting students for asummer gardening course, and
also connecting students andfarmers with the community at
large to help us get some morenutrients in our soil and to
help make it more sustainable tocontinue farming practices
today.
So fascinating conversation froma really wonderful woman.
(02:51):
And I hope you enjoy it.
See you there.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (02:55):
I am so grateful today to be able
to share a conversation withAbigail Levi.
I think by the, not even by theend, by a few minutes in, you
will see why I, I'm reallygrateful to share this time.
Abigail has done so.
Abigail is a person that I loveto talk to.
It just gives me hope for thegeneration coming up right
(03:15):
behind mine that there arepeople paying attention to what
they wanna learn and goingforward with what they wanna do
and how they can make adifference in Not only their
life, but other people's life toimprove the culture in general,
that Abigail is one of thesepeople.
So welcome Abby.
It's nice to talk to you today.
Track 1 (03:35):
Oh, thank you so much, Becca.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (03:37):
You are welcome.
So Abigail is, if you have seenin health food stores, there's a
dutch oven, sourdough breadcalled Abigail's oven and it is
one of the only breads that Ican buy in a store that I can
digest.
So I am very sensitive togluten, as are a lot of people
with health problems.
Whether they know it or not.
(03:59):
So I don't even really payattention to what's on the bread
aisle for myself certainly.
But someone asked me to try yourbread and I did.
So knowing that I might bemiserable that night and the
next day, but I wasn't.
I was so happy.
I still remember like literaljoy that I felt slicing avocados
(04:20):
and having avocado bread onactual chewy delicious,
wonderful bread like I can'ttell you what that meant to me.
I hadn't had bread in like fiveyears so I went to a
regenerative gardening bootcampin Nevada and when I walked
through the door there was a boxfull of Abigail's oven bread and
(04:40):
I was like, oh, Abigail's ovenbread.
These people know about this.
That's so cool.
How do you know Abigail's ovenbread and.
They were like, well, that'sAbigail.
I'm like, Abigail, likeAbigail's, like this is her
oven.
like, I'm meeting a superstar inmy world.
You are a superstar.
So what I would like to startwith asking you about is how was
(05:01):
Abigail's oven started?
Because you are just in yourearly twenties and it's big
enough that I found it in ahealth food store.
Track 1 (05:08):
Thank you so much for the intro.
I was, I'm so happy that youbrought up the fact that you can
eat our bread because that'sreally our mission and we really
want to help people tounderstand and the, and learn
about the health of their bodiesand how they can have products
that can help them feel good andnot nasty in their stomach.
So like.
(05:28):
Becca said, I am Abigail fromAbigail's Oven, but I can't take
all the credit.
This is a family business rightnow.
My parents run the bakery and mysiblings have helped out and
it's been a wonderful journey.
But I actually began when I was10 years old and I lived in
Cedar City, Utah,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (05:45):
I didn't know that
Track 1 (05:47):
Yeah, so actually it started, started in your
hometown and that's where itbegan.
My, I grew up in Cedar Cityactually.
And so when I was 10, I heard astory of this girl, my mom's
friend's daughter who had soldenough bread that she could
serve an LDS mission.
(06:07):
And so she saved up and shedecided to go to a different
country and.
Teach about Jesus Christ, andthat was something that I always
wanted to do growing up.
And so she had done that andthat was something that I wanted
to do.
And so I saw, I had a great rolemodel.
She had started to sell bread.
It wasn't sourdough bread, and Ihadn't actually been introduced
to sourdough bread yet.
And so what I was, I decided todo was to start a bread
(06:30):
business.
I really wanted to start abusiness before that, but I
didn't know what to do.
And so she inspired
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (06:35):
Before 10 years old, you wanted to
start
Track 1 (06:37):
Well, before I learned about the bread business, yeah,
about eight.
I asked my mom, I was like, oh,I wanna start a business.
And I think she caught me, meand my, my little brother, we
had drawn pictures and we hadtaken them to our neighbors.
It's, and sold them for like aquarter or something.
And my mom, she brought us backand she's like, guys, this is so
awesome that you wanna createvalue, but when you, that you
(06:58):
wanna sell things, but when yousell things, you need to, give
something that's valuable tosomeone else.
And she said, if you want todraw pictures, that's great, but
you need to make sure that yourpictures are beautiful and
people want that.
And so we were like, okay, wellwhat can we do to, to give
value?
And so I had already had abackground of wanting to sell
things.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (07:15):
And wanting
Track 1 (07:16):
often tell people
dr-becca-whittaker_2_1 (07:17):
valuable for others.
Track 1 (07:18):
Mm-Hmm,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (07:19):
is bonus parenting move right
there.
Track 1 (07:21):
Right.
And so those are the two thingsthat I think that I had that
really going for me were I hadgreat mentors in the form of my
two parents that were justamazing.
They supported me, they helpedme believe that I could do
whatever I wanted and all Ineeded to do was work hard and
make sure that I was creatingsomething good in the world.
And then I also had that rolemodel of someone else who had
done the same thing who had hadStarted a business, so I decided
(07:45):
to do it.
I, I made bread.
I had already known how to makebread because it was one of my
chores as a member of a bigfamily.
And so I knew how to make bread.
I made,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (07:54):
sorry, I'm gonna interrupt you.
So how many children are in yourfamily?
You said big family.
Track 1 (07:59):
so I am the oldest of 10.
So my, my parents had 10 kids.
At the time, I think I, therewas five of us when I was 10.
dr-becca-whittaker_ (08:06):
hallelujah.
That you are a natural leader.
I had best friends that werethe, some of the older of the,
of 11 children in one family.
I'm like, wow, extra leadershipis very helpful.
Track 1 (08:19):
Yes,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (08:19):
you're 10, you're the oldest, and
you're going, okay, here we go.
Track 1 (08:23):
Yes.
And I was, I was living actuallyjust outside of Cedar City, so
we were outside of town and Ijust over by the airport and we.
I decided to sell to myneighbors.
So I started selling to myneighbors.
They loved it, but it was veryrandom.
I would make bread when I feltlike it and sold it.
And one of my neighbors waslike, Abby, I never know when
you're coming and I never knowif I should buy bread at the
grocery store or not.
Will you just bring me breadevery week?
(08:44):
And I was like, oh, that'sbrilliant.
I'm going to start a deliverycompany so then I don't have to
do all the work to sell it.
I can just have returncustomers.
And so I hired my dad to driveme because I was still young and
I made bread and I would deliverit.
I kept a chart on Excel, and Iwould just deliver it to the
right house and I would, wewould get more and more
(09:06):
customers.
And by the time I was 11, thesummer of my 11th year, I had
350 customers.
And in the process my dad had.
Been working to finish hiseducation and he decided to stop
his day job and he decided tohelp me and it became our family
(09:26):
income by 20 20, 20 11.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (09:28):
Wow.
Track 1 (09:29):
So it went from me just having a project, wanting to
sell things, to finding a name,Abigail's Oven, and to building
a brand and creating a lot ofvalue for people.
And so I was able to
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (09:42):
you to ask another question.
What was your kitchen like atthis point?
I mean, there's multiplechildren and your 350 customers
a week.
Track 1 (09:51):
Yeah, so I didn't deliver to all of them once a
week.
I had a system of one once everyweek or twice a month or a
monthly, but it was still a lot.
And I look back and I don'tknow, after now we have a
bakery, right?
And we make thousands of loaveswith these big ovens that do 250
at a time.
So I'm like, I don't know how Idid it.
We had two ovens at the time,and we could do In one batch.
(10:16):
And so I don't know how wemanaged to do everything
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (10:20):
You did like bread for most of the
kitchen and a tiny other portionwas all the other meal space
Track 1 (10:26):
exactly.
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (10:28):
we do when we're starting things.
We just jump in and you caneither wait until you have the
perfect kitchen and the hugeequipment to even start, or you
can just start and you grow asyou need to.
That is truthfully the bestBusinesses that I know you start
(10:48):
and you just solve the problemsas they come.
I love that your family wassupportive as well.
Track 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
My mom was an angel.
The reason I didn't start when Iwas eight years old was because
she said, no, you can't start abusiness because I'll end up
doing all the work, and So shealways tells that part of the
story because as a mom, that's alot, right?
She already had five kids, butshe's amazing and it has since
evolved.
I knew that homemade bread wasbetter than store-bought bread
(11:16):
just because of the love thatyou put into it and you can
control the quality ofingredients.
But I didn't understand anythingabout sourdough.
So to give our listeners alittle bit of context, our
bakery now is completelysourdough.
We sell eight different flavorsof sourdough bread 10 during the
holidays, and we.
We specialize in a 24 hourferment, so it's a full real
(11:40):
sourdough.
And so we moved up to Provoarea.
So we're in Utah County in 2013,and my dad had gotten a job and
in the educational world he wasbuilding education programs,
which was he really loved, buthe just wasn't a desk job
person.
And I had started up.
(12:00):
The, the bakery a little bitjust to have some extra cash
because I was like, I'm nevergonna get back to 300 customers.
I had to say goodbye to all ofthem.
It was so sad.
But I'll, I'll continue it to,to get some extra cash to, to
earn some money.
While I am in my high schoolyears my mom and dad had met a
guy named Gov Allen, and he'samazing.
He had learned to make sourdoughin San Francisco.
(12:22):
California.
And so as I was selling bread mymom was like, well, let's make
some sourdough.
And I was like, oh, no,sourdough just has that weird
flavor.
I don't really wanna go forsourdough.
I like our, our nice fluffybread that's you know, kind of
cake like, but still got some,it's homemade so it's got good
qualities to it.
(12:43):
And.
It was actually my greatgrandma's recipe.
I can't, I can't cheat on mygreat grandma, right?
Like I have to stick to thefamily recipe.
But my mom had learned how tomake sourdough from gov, and
that was a Dutch oven method.
To put sourdough in a DutchDutch oven and it's 24 hours per
minute.
And it was so much work.
But what we found is that's whenwe were introduced to the health
of sourdough.
(13:04):
And my dad, he has alwaysstruggled with bread.
Ironically, I, I make breadgrowing up and he couldn't, he
couldn't eat it very well.
His, his gut just couldn'tdigest the gluten and so he kind
of just stayed away from it.
And we always felt sad aboutthat, but I was.
I told my dad, dad, I'm notmaking gluten-free bread.
I'm sorry, but have you tried tobake with those flowers like
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (13:25):
It's terrible.
Track 1 (13:26):
It's, it's.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (13:27):
WHen I shifted over to being
gluten-free, I tried buyingnearly every brand and oh good.
Like I'd just rather not havebread.
I just wrap things in lettuce,but all to have the smell of
fresh bread around me all thetime.
I don't know what kind ofamazing self-control your father
had.
I would wanna bury my face in itanyway.
Track 1 (13:52):
my hat is off to all the amazing, I have amazing
friends who are gluten-freebakers, and they do an amazing
job, and I just don't know howthey do it.
It's beyond me, my skill level,they, they are able to take the,
the flour that they have andcreate wonderful products.
So if, if you know someonethat's like that, it's really
amazing and I love that they'reable to, and I really struggled
(14:13):
with that.
And so I was like, dad, no,sorry.
Well, you can go buy some fromthe store or just.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (14:19):
Yep.
Track 1 (14:20):
I don't go make some spaghetti the
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (14:23):
Go make some
Track 1 (14:24):
right?
But so when gov told us, hesaid, oh, and by the way,
sourdough is actually reallygood for your gut.
Because it is processed.
A lot of people that strugglewith gluten can actually digest
it.
Because what, what happens iswith wheat in general, it should
be sprouted or fermented becausethat kernel, when you grind it
(14:47):
up, there's a brand and there'sa, a phytic acid on there, that
what it does is when it isdissolved, the wheat will re
release a lot of nutrients andwhen it is fermented.
What it does is it breaks downthe gluten strands that are, are
(15:07):
made when you make bread.
There's a, a thing called glutenand wheat that we're, we've been
talking about, right?
And that is in its raw form,very hard to digest.
foR us in our humans.
Just like we can't go outsideand lick a rock and say, oh,
that's my iron for the day.
we, there is some things ingrains that we need to be
processed first so that ourdigestive system can handle it.
(15:31):
And so in gluten, in its rawform does not make our, our
digestive system in our guthappy.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (15:39):
Right.
Track 1 (15:39):
But if it is fermented, what it does is my mom says it
kind of breaks it down orpredigests it for us.
Just like a plant would takeiron from the ground and make it
into a bio.
Digestible form.
So I really like that comparisonbecause it's true.
We, we need plants to get theminerals from the ground to give
(16:00):
us the nutrients that we need.
And it's the same kind of thingwith fermentation.
And so what it is, is asourdough is a living yeast and
it's bacteria, and as it, youput water and flour together and
you let it sit and ferment, whatit does is the bacteria breaks
down all of the gluten for youand it makes it completely
digestible for you.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (16:21):
Yeah, I, I, find that so fascinating.
So the commercial yeasts thatthey use in bread, actually I've
heard, I don't remember whichstrain it is, but it's strain
similar to mushrooms in their.
basically created, synthesizedin labs also to be very rapidly
producing and very hardy.
(16:41):
And I know even baking, itcannot make, even when it's
baked, some of those strainsdon't die.
And then they continue in ourguts, which is like the bloating
nastiness.
It's literally the yeastcontinuing is part of the bloat.
Part of it is allergy, but Ilearned until me.
(17:01):
If this tracks with what you'relearning.
I learned that the naturalbacteria that you use when
you're creating sourdough notonly is digesting the starches,
but also their byproduct issuper healthy for us.
It like helps predigests, whichis great, but also releases some
other nutrients that we need.
(17:22):
So not only is the other onereally bad for us, but this one
is really good.
And doesn't it also make theglycemic index lower?
I think I read sourdough breadis
Track 1 (17:31):
gonna.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (17:32):
yeah, sourdough bread's like a.
60 or something, or 68 on theglycemic index.
And normal commercial bread is ahundred, which is the highest
the glycemic index goes.
Track 1 (17:43):
Yeah.
And so it can get kind ofconfusing'cause we're talking
about two different kinds ofyeast, but they're both yeast,
right?
There's a natural yeast, whichwe call a sourdough starter, and
we call it natural yeast becauseit just, it happens with, with
the bacteria and the flour, thewater and the air.
And it's a fermenting process.
And you're right, there's acommercial yeast that was
created to accelerate theprocess of rising bread.
(18:04):
And so what happens is thenatural yeast helps to ignite
with the gluten to make thebread rise and the.
The commercial yeast does thesame thing and it just
accelerates the process and itdoes it really fast.
And what you said was exactlytrue.
A lot of people don't realizethat when they eat the
commercial yeast, they actuallycrave sugar because those
strands are still there, andthose strands want to be fed by
(18:26):
sugar.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (18:26):
Ah.
Track 1 (18:27):
And so it actually and there's, there's some, if you
guys want sources for this andstuff, we have a lot of blogs on
our website.
So you can go to abigailsoven.com and look these kind of
things up.
So then, you know, I'm not justsaying my personal opinion, but
I do have some research andwe've written some blogs to back
that up.
But what happens is with thenatural yeast, it lowers the
glycemic content, not just forthe bread.
(18:50):
Or the carbs that you're eating,but it's actually for your whole
entire meal because it's goinginto your gut and it's going to
help you to process it all.
So it's really cool if you havea slice of sourdough with your
meal, it's actually healthierover round, not just because
you're not eating bad bread, butthe natural prebiotics in the
bread help the whole digestivesystem.
(19:14):
I, we have chiropractors andhealth professionals that
actually prescribe our bread orprescribe a real sourdough
because it can help to healsomeone who are, is struggling
with other digestive problems intheir gut, with the bacteria
content.
And so it's very fascinating andI encourage all of you to do
some research for yourself to,to find out what the experts
(19:36):
have found with their studiesand How everything works.
But what I can say is I know itworks because I have met people
like Becca and I have been ableto interact with miracles where
people have been able to havebread and have a better and
healthy lifestyle because of thebeauty of sourdough.
(19:56):
So it's, it's incredible what wehave learned and that has become
the mission of Abigail's Oven.
We're now going on year nine.
Since my parents partnered upwith me and we found a bakery in
Spanish Fork, a, a building, webuilt it out and now we sell
bread all throughout Utah and weship all over the country and we
(20:17):
make tons of bread hoping thatwe can get a healthy product
into people's homes to help themhave a healthy lifestyle and be
happy and live their dreams.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (20:27):
And you showed me a picture of your
ovens.
There are these massive ovensthat can
Track 1 (20:31):
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (20:32):
these adorable miniature Dutch ovens
where each loaf is.
I think it's amazing.
Okay.
So then fast forward, yourparents took over the business
when you did indeed earn enoughmoney to go on this, on the
religious mission that youwanted to go
Track 1 (20:48):
Yep.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (20:49):
Yes.
so so neat.
So you went to London, correct.
Track 1 (20:55):
Mm-Hmm.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (20:55):
London is one of the places where so I
have visited there twice and a afew other countries, a few other
times.
And when I am in.
The other countries by about daythree or day four when my system
relaxes and I am used to eatingfoods that are more natural and
not sprayed with as manychemicals and just crap as the
(21:18):
United States food is.
I start to be able to eatgluten, but they're kind of
gluten.
I actually heard my friend, andforgive me, I don't know what
she was watching but she waswatching a show about how they
make pasta in Italy.
Because they use their regularflour there, but they ferment it
(21:38):
longer in these big batches.
And this man that had this bigpasta factory was talking about
how Americans come to Italy andcan eat the pasta and it's
different.
He was saying, this is why it'sdifferent.
We ferment it this long, we dothis long process.
And he said, what takes them ayear to make the volume of pasta
(21:58):
and the quality of pasta a yeartakes three.
Was it three days?
No, three hours in an Americanfactory.
I just thought, well, we areeating drl three hours versus
one year.
I mean, I can see if you need tofeed a lot of people why you
wanna speed that process up.
(22:19):
But in other countries, the foodreally does taste and process
differently.
So did you have that experiencein London also?
And can you tell me a little bitabout what we do to the flower?
Here or to the grains growing inthe flour that can make it so we
feel so different in or out ofcountry.
Track 1 (22:37):
Yes, yes, of course.
There are lots of differentfactors.
Just to caveat at the beginning,there could be many different
things and I do think it has alot to do with the fermentation
process and the style ofharvesting.
That they have in othercountries compared to what we
have.
But I did have that experienceactually when I was in London.
It was amazing to see a lot ofthe style of bread wasn't
(23:01):
necessarily maybe a truesourdough, but they still let it
sit a lot longer than mostbreads that are in the us.
The US doesn't do super greatwith bread, and I'm sorry if
that hurts anyone's feelings,but we're just, we're just not
very good at bread
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (23:14):
We're
Track 1 (23:15):
It's not our.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (23:15):
fast producers.
Track 1 (23:17):
Yes, very fast.
And I think my mom has a, aphrase that she has coined.
And I always quote her, shealways says that if you look at
the history of wheat and thehistory of bread and how it has
evolved, you'll see that we havetraded convenience for
nutrition.
And I think that is a true aprinciple for a lot of the
(23:38):
things that have evolved areespecially food-wise in our
society, but specifically bread.
It has been very stark.
When commercial use wasinvented, we.
We decided to trade convenienceof, okay, now we don't have to
let it sit for 24 hours or likedo the whole process.
It's now a two hour process or a30 minute process.
And a lot of times we don'trealize that there are
(24:01):
consequences to that.
But to speak to the quality offlour, I think that yOur
experience in Italy is so coolbecause what they do is they
process things.
I'm not sure specifically whatyou experienced with that
specific grower, but our, ourgrowers
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (24:17):
go to Italy.
My friend was just watching ashow of Italy, but I found that
in Bolivia, Peru, London, andJapan, all those places I can
eat so.
Track 1 (24:27):
That's amazing.
So there are a lot of laws inEngland.
I know for sure.
I don't know any of the otherplaces, but about what you can
spray, what you can't, you can'tspray on or crops.
And I know that the flour thatwe use matters.
So the quality of youringredients is going to directly
(24:47):
have, like, directly impact theexperience you'll have eating
and your body processing thoseingredients.
And so there's lots of things.
There's what we put on ourwheat, right?
There's the spraying there's theprocessing and all of that
stuff.
And any additives that you.
You put, and then there's alsowhat kind of wheat we're using.
(25:08):
So there is this thing calleddwarf wheat.
There's GMO types of plants andthings like that.
And so whether you're usingancient grain versus a, a new
developed grain, those all arefactors in what makes a healthy
quality product.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (25:26):
So how did you choose what flour to
use and what were you lookingfor or avoiding?
Track 1 (25:32):
Yes.
Okay.
So the flower we use right nowis from a mill in Logan, Utah.
They are, it's called centralmilling and we use a baker's
blend and we love them becausethey make a blend where they
actually just grind the wheatreally, really fine, and they
(25:52):
add the brand back in.
And so a lot of the nutrients isactually in the kernel and
that's why people say wheatbread is so much healthier,
right?
The difference between wheatflour and white flour is oddly
not very well known.
I, I thought it would be obvious'cause I grew up baking, but a
lot of people don't realize whatthe difference is.
What it is, is when you grindwheat, there is a, the kernel is
(26:14):
still on it not on it, but thekernel is ground up as well, and
they, it doesn't grind as fineas what the inside of the actual
wheat is.
And so it's a little morecoarse, but a lot of the
nutrients of the wheat is onthat kernel.
And so when you sift it out tomake white flour, which is what
white flour is, it's wheat flourthat has been sifted and usually
(26:37):
bleached or refined in aspecific way to make it lighter,
fluffier, and white.
It's really good for pastriesand I suggest that people use it
for pastries all the time.
But.
The, the, the most nutrients.
If you want the most nutrients,you get a grain and you grind it
yourself because the fresher itis that it's from its ground.
(26:58):
And the more of the kernel youhave in it, the more healthy,
nutritious it will be.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (27:04):
Isn't
Track 1 (27:04):
we
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (27:05):
fat, like healthy fats that can go
rancid after it is actuallyturned into a flower?
Track 1 (27:12):
mm-Hmm.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (27:12):
so the faster you do it, then you
can still utilize those healthyfats instead of having them go
rancid.
Am I right in that?
Track 1 (27:21):
Mm-Hmm.
And what happens is the phyticacid that's on the outside of
the kernel, when it isfermented, it helps to unlock
all the nutrients.
It's like the, the, the key tothe door of all, a lot of the
nutrients in the flour.
A lot of people are like, oh,weed is so bad for you.
A lot.
It is not.
It has been the staple of almostevery society.
(27:42):
Is what people have, have livedoff of is a lot of grains,
right?
And so it, it can be unhealthyif it is not processed correctly
and if it's not unlocked the
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (27:53):
I remember a discussion with my
father, so I started learningabout health and nutrition when
I was in college, and it hadn'treally been anything we ever
focused on.
Food was just a thing we neededto do.
I'm the middle of sevenchildren.
You just need to feed thebeasts.
just need to feed the minionsbut.
(28:14):
I started to be interested init.
And when I started telling himabout having fewer grains and
carbohydrates, he thought I wasfull of crap because he was a
very religious person and wasreferencing like wheat being a
basis for what we need and afruit of the earth.
And, but I was looking at theresearch I was seeing and
wondering how does thiscorrelate, you know, is it, is
(28:37):
some of it just colloquialwisdom passed down that is, is
not applicable anymore?
And what I'm actually coming tothat is not a Bible or religious
statement, is just, I think thewheat has changed.
Like you said, there's so manydifferent kinds of GMO,
everything.
I think we've messed with it.
Plus for me, what I know I'm themost sensitive to is what they
(28:59):
spray on it.
So when they spray.
the glyphosate.
For those of you who have notever heard of it, I'm gonna
break it down a little.
For those of you who know allabout it, just stay with me.
But glyphosate, they spray on itto help with weeded control,
correct.
Abigail?
Is that what you understand?
But it gets on that seed kerneland that is the part, and once
(29:23):
it's on that seed kernel, thenas you turn it into flour, you
have the poison mixed in.
Glyphosate basically punchesholes in the lining of your gut,
and it contributes a ton toautoimmune disease because those
tiny little holes in your gutcan they affect the seal of the
gut, which means you'reaffecting the entire culture
within the gut of bacteria ofnutrients.
(29:45):
And some food can actually Getout, which causes an immune
autoimmune reaction in yourbody.
So it's basically like mixingpoison in with the flour that
ends up making your whole bodyangry.
I remember learning some ofthose things that were highest
in glyphosate, like Cheerios aresome of the highest glyphosate
(30:06):
containing foods There are anycompany now that is big food
producer is usually usingcompanies that have to grow so
much that they have to basicallypoison their crop to make it
more efficient for weededcontrol and harvesting.
(30:27):
But it's not great So how do yousource your, were you looking
for that when you were sourcingyour flour from different
companies, or what else do youlook for as far as the
pesticides sprayed on?
On the
Track 1 (30:44):
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's a, a huge point.
What we put in our body matters,and a lot of times it's hard to
find a flower that hasn't beenused.
But the nice thing is you canfind some wheat that hasn't been
sprayed at all with fertilizeror any glyphosate or any other
(31:06):
pesticide resistant sprays orthings like that.
Here let things, somethinghasn't been gm.
Un fortified.
So if you don't know what thatmeans, fortified means that
there's additives people thathave added things back into the
(31:27):
flour for different things.
Sometimes it's a really goodthing'cause they wanna try to
make it more nutritious becauseby taking the brand out, you're
taking some of the nutritionout.
But a lot of times they, theyadd, they add what they say is
nutritious.
A lot of times they'll adddifferent metals back into the,
the flour, but like, just likethe gluten isn't very digestible
(31:50):
for our guts, you can't just addraw minerals into something that
is not already available to ourgut digestive system.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (31:58):
And I know the
Track 1 (31:58):
And so.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (31:59):
often are not in a form that we can
digest in the first place, Iknow a lot of those additives
really can muck up ourdetoxification channels'cause
we're trying to get rid of thethings that are not actually
food in the way we can processit.
Track 1 (32:13):
So when a flower says fortified, I, I usually avoid,
we, we avoid using thoseflowers.
alSo the shelf life of a flower,if you're getting flour that's
already ground.
liKe, like I said earlier, you,you have, the nutrition kind of
goes down exponentially andthere is risk of.
Other things happening to theflour.
And so the, the fresher it isthe, the better and the better
(32:36):
quality your bread will turn outand then, or whatever you're
making with flour.
And then we try to go withorganic.
I know you can't always trustthe word organic always, but I,
I think if you know your growerand you, you know, that that's
important to them to do as muchas closest to the organic
process of growing wheat.
(32:57):
They're not, they're not addingtoo much.
They're not trying to change toomuch of the process.
That is also important to us.
So if you want quality flour,you get something that is
closest to an ancient grain aspossible as little split, and
then that something that isunfortified and not sprayed.
And then if it can be organic,that's great.
(33:18):
Or if you know your grower, youknow that they are.
Very health conscious of theconsequences of spraying
chemicals on your food and whatthose, how those affect your
body.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (33:30):
I know we don't really want to
point out or not point outbrands, but if I know you order
a lot of flowers so you canreally go with those companies.
If we're just walking down anormal aisle, is there a brand
or two that you, that you like?
That seems like a pretty good.
(33:50):
Thing to look for.
Track 1 (33:51):
King Arthur king Arthur's Flour is a really good
brand.
We, we like them, they do areally good job with their farms
are, are reliable.
They don't do a ton ofprocessing, which is really
good.
And then central milling, if youcan ever find central milling,
we really like central milling alot, and there's a couple other
brands.
(34:11):
If you want a list of brands,you can go to abigail's oven.com
and there's a, there's a blogpost about flour and it has all
the brands in Utah that werecommend making sourdough with.
I can't remember all of them offthe top of our heads.
We usually just have our, ourmain one.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (34:28):
Okay.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Track 1 (34:30):
Arthur, you can order online central milling.
You can order online.
They'll ship it to your house.
And you can also find otherorganic grains around in.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (34:40):
I.
Okay, so fast forward then youcame back from London where you
were eating delightfully,unsprayed, delicious food, and
you had some decisions to make.
So tell me about your nextstages, and I wanna talk about
what you're doing now.
Track 1 (34:58):
Yeah, so really quickly, we, I got back and my,
my parents have already hadalready figured out how to do
the bakery without me.
I mean, they were already doingit a lot before I left, but they
were doing really well.
They were being very successfuland I was like, well, I could
get back into the bakery.
And work on that and continuewith that in my life.
Or I could take this opportunityto explore some other things and
get an education and maybefigure out if there's other
(35:21):
passions that I want to pursue.
And so I decided to go toschool.
I went to BYU Idaho studyingsmall business management.
I've always been a businessgirl.
From the beginning people, so alot of people think that I'm a
baker.
They're like, oh, you, youmust've just loved baking and
wanted it, wanted to make moneywith it.
And I've said, well, actuallyit's the opposite.
I love business and I knew howto bake so it, it kind of worked
(35:41):
out the opposite way.
But so I decided to studybusiness and I loved it.
I loved my classes.
It was a really great school,but I am a doer.
I need to be working with myhands.
And it was really hard for me tobe in an educational environment
where I was in a classroom andthere was a lot of theory and I
was like, I just need to dosomething.
And I think an education isreally good, but for me, I
decided it would be best to justgo start pursuing other things.
(36:05):
And so I always had beeninterested in agriculture just
because we use wheat and flour.
And I had to learn about a lotabout how that's grown and where
it comes from.
And so I've.
I was curious about that.
So I attended a college,Monticello College, who focuses
on sustainability.
And connecting with the land.
And then I met William Demillthrough that college and I
(36:28):
decided to take William DemMill's course.
It's a soil science course thatis 17 weeks long.
And you go and live on his, onthe ranch that he works at, and
he teaches you the biology andabout biology in the soil.
He teaches you how to heal thesoil and create a functioning
soil so you can grow nutritiousfood.
And he focuses on beingprofitable without adding a ton
(36:49):
of.
Things to your garden, to yourfarm such as glyphosate, because
a lot of people, they don'twanna use glyphosate, but they
use it because they can't getrid of the weeds.
They can't get rid of the pests.
They can't get rid of a lot ofthe, they spray things and they
need to add fertilizer becausethey can't get their plants to
grow.
And so he taught me about thehealth of a, the soil and how
(37:11):
it's important to have thehealth of the soil so that the
soil can actually support theplants and the food that we we
consume.
And that translate into ahealthy lifestyle.
And so I was inspired by thatbecause I.
when people ate our bread, italso helped to create a healthy
lifestyle because when your bodyis healthy and when your body's
(37:32):
happy and eating good things,that translates into family
happiness and career happinessand all of the other things.
And I was inspired because I, Ithink that farming is such a
holy profession.
It's always been the, thefoundation of America.
We need farmers and we needpeople to, to be working with
the land to.
Help create resources.
(37:54):
And so I was inspired by thatand I decided that that was
something I wanted to pursue,not only so that I could maybe
figure out how to grow wheat forAbigail's oven.
'cause I thought that would bereally cool if I could produce
the wheat that we actually growso that we can be more
sustainable.
Because that is really importantto me to, to not have to rely so
much on middlemen or, or second.
(38:15):
Second things, but if we couldproduce it ourselves, it would
be that much more reliable afterlearning about the health of the
soil and how that translatesinto healthy bodies,, now I'm, I
took the course, I graduated andI work for William right now,
marketing for his course.
And helping to make the world abetter place and bring hope for
(38:36):
people that are in the farmingindustry or are thinking about
going into the farming industrybecause they I think a lot of
times in our, in our modernsociety, it's hard because it's
really hard.
Hard to have a profitable farm.
if you've been in thatprofession before, you would
know it can be hard withoutadding a lot of fertilizer and
stuff like that, but that'sexpensive and that adds to your
(38:57):
over overhead.
And William has helped me tolearn that if we, as we mimic
nature and we use principleslearned from permaculture,
biodynamics, and regenerativeagriculture, that we can farm
mimicking nature.
Still be profitable because wedon't have to add so much.
It's just changing ourmanagement style.
(39:18):
And so I hope that I can helpbring hope to the younger
generation and to the farming,the farmers and ranchers out
there who are doing amazingthings.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (39:27):
Oh, that's just so beautiful.
So I know the reader, thelisteners can't see my face, but
I'm like smiling all overinside.
As soon as you say you foundWilliam Dimm Mill's work,
because I am having him as aguest on the show, which I'm so
excited and grateful about.
I heard him on a podcast and hewas talking about living soil
(39:48):
and It just lit a fire in me.
I just kept researching.
I was watching everything Icould find him hi of his on
YouTube.
I joined his Patreon accountbecause it just made so much
sense.
He talked about the soil in away that I understood the gut,
and he talked about thediversity that's needed and the
hope for are healing the soil.
(40:10):
And I mean, I had heard so muchof negativity about like we are
not negativity, but the coldhard truth of that.
We are killing the soil.
There's not nutrients in ourfood.
There is poison in our food, butyou can feel really helpless.
Like, I mean, I have to eat andmy family has to eat.
And yes, I see the terriblehabits being taught to families
(40:34):
and children, and I know we'rein an autoimmune culture, but
what are you supposed to doabout it if big, huge companies
are killing the earth?
Like, ah, what can you do?
Right?
Where Williams' message, messagewas a message of hope.
I actually tore out my flowerbeds and turned them into
garden.
(40:54):
So I had these like big terracesof gardens in front of my home,
and I just did exactly what hesaid because he came at it from
a science perspective, but alsofrom a, this is our relationship
with the earth.
Like this is part of ourresponsibility as people on the
earth to care.
Take it and how do you care?
Take it if you don't know whatyou're doing.
(41:15):
Lots of us are raised in aculture where we think we do
need to put fertilizer oneverything.
And.
weed killer on everything.
And then we expect the earth togrow nutrients with that way.
And I didn't realize there was away that was better, but also
less expensive and also worksbetter.
The food, I mean, I could tastea big difference.
(41:37):
It's way more pest resistantwhen you work with the soil and
it's delicious and morenutritious.
It was just amazing that Solowhen you were doing that course
is when I did a bootcamp out onthat same farm, and that was how
you and I connected.
Track 1 (41:53):
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (41:53):
But I love that you are now creating
a business that reaches out toteach other people how to give
them hope and to teach them andconnect farmers with good
information and people growingup and wanting to look into
farming.
With better information too, sothat it can be possible.
We are getting a huge outflux offarmers because it's just so
(42:16):
expensive.
The land is expensive, theequipment is expensive, the
fertilizer's expensive.
And I know William teaches adifferent method where you do
not need the expensive equipmentand you basically help the soil
in a way that you're giving itits own natural fertilizer.
I think it's just so valuable.
Abigail, I.
(42:37):
Because sometimes the peopleworking so hard at it can't
really market or share themessage.
And I think that's where Williamprobably was.
They live on a self-sustainingranch.
They are responsible for growingall of the food that the cattle
workers and the families andeverything take in that that
live on ranch.
So they have to be activelyworking, doing the food, and
(42:59):
thank you for sharing themessage of what they're doing so
we can spread it to more people.
That's the message that I feelwhenever I think about you,
Abigail, you're one of thosepeople.
That is a light for me.
That reminds me there are otherlights.
Because we hear a lot about thedanger of things or the, the
problems and the negativitybecause that is what sells and
(43:22):
because our brains pay attentionto that.
But that doesn't mean that's allthere is.
There are definitely peopleworking to regenerate the soil.
William is one of them.
I don't know if any readershave, or any listeners have
listened to Zach Bush, md He'sanother one that talks about it.
There is a whole Movement ofpeople that want to care take
(43:44):
the earth.
So we work with the earth well,we get nutrients in the food.
Then we figure out how toprocess the food so that we can
use it.
Then our healthy bodies canthink better and move better,
and our emotional state isbetter and then we reach out to
help others.
It is a process of healing thatis actively happening.
(44:05):
So thank you, Abigail.
And thank you for joining ustoday.
So until next time, I get to runinto you at some cool
regenerative gardening thing.
thank you for joining us, We'lltalk soon.
Bye.
Hey, I am so glad you were withus for that conversation.
(44:25):
My takeaways would be theingredients we use, how they are
grown and how they are processedmatters.
What we take into our bodymatters.
And when we do it one way or theother, these foods can either
wreck our guts.
or help build our guts with thebacterial culture, with breaking
(44:46):
down the food, with helping ourenzymes function, or with
shutting our enzymes down.
They can worsen autoimmuneconditions by causing leaky gut
and, um, the chaos that happenswhen our gut is not sealed very
well.
Or they can begin to healautoimmune conditions by helping
us digest and using thoseenzymes.
So it's wonderful to rememberthat.
(45:08):
And I love the resources sheshared.
If you want to know more, I haveall of those resources linked in
the show notes.
Second would be her work withWilliam DeMille.
I find so fascinating.
I love how she talked aboutreally wanting to connect
farmers, with more informationand resources about how they can
continue to farm and be able toafford it, how they can use
(45:32):
practices to rehabilitate thatsoil and what that does for
making.
The plants more pest resistant,have more nutrient density.
Um, I love that she is workingto connect those pieces because
there are a culture of peoplethat are learning that science,
(45:52):
incorporating that wisdom intocaretaking of the earth.
But sometimes it's a little bitdifficult for farmers with boots
on the ground to actually findit themselves when they are
doing so much of the hard work.
So that connection is wonderful.
And the last takeaway would be amessage of hope for me.
(46:13):
We hear so much about the soilhas no nutrients.
The food isn't good for us.
This company is poisoning thefood supply chain.
The next generation doesn't evenknow where their food comes
from.
And it can really take a hit onour hope for humanity, for the
earth, for our health.
(46:34):
And when I talk to people whoare coming up in the ranks of
experience and really trying toconnect pieces and communities
and information and.
Purpose.
It makes me feel so much hope,but to have that be happening in
a younger generation is proofthat there are the things
(46:56):
happening that are not good forour planet or for our species or
for the other species that areon this planet with us.
But there.
There are also people gatheringtogether, movements, forming,
people trying to make adifference.
And this podcast is about beingone of those people.
(47:17):
So it was wonderful to rememberthat I am not alone and that
neither are you and neither isshe.
So join us again next time.
And we'll just keep buildingthis community of hope and
purpose and knowledge untilthen.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to the whatreally makes a difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whitaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health.
Was tested when my own healthhit a landslide and I became a
(00:20):
very sick patient I've learnedthat showing up for our own
health and vitality is a step bystep journey that we take for
the rest of our lives and Thispodcast is about sharing some of
the things that really make adifference on that journey with
you So grab your Explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
(00:41):
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.
(01:01):
Ooh, welcome to today's episode.
I am so glad you are here.
We are recording with MissAbigail Levi and she is of a
little bit younger generationthan most of the podcast.
And I think you will see why I'mexcited to have her on the show.
When we really get into it, sheis only in her early twenties
and already has so much lifeexperience behind her in
(01:23):
business, in health, incultivation of health, not only
with what she sells in businessand in the cultivation of health
through some surprising ways.
So a little more about her.
She's an entrepreneur and hasbeen since she was age 10.
She founded Abigail's OvenSourdough Bakery and it is one
(01:44):
of the only breads that I, as avery gluten sensitive person,
can eat.
I seek out her bread and itactually helps my stomach feel
better, not worse.
So we talk about why that can bethe case and what it is that she
does different in the bread.
So for those of you who may havea gluten sensitivity or
autoimmune issues, please tunein to this episode because it
(02:07):
just may turn out that you couldeat some bread again.
Ha ha ha ha! She studied smallbusiness management at BYU Idaho
and that led to a passion forsustainable agriculture.
She graduated from the GeorgicSchoolroom in Nevada, which
focuses on sustainable farmingand agriculture.
Now she works at the GeorgicRevolution and does marketing
(02:30):
and recruiting students for asummer gardening course, and
also connecting students andfarmers with the community at
large to help us get some morenutrients in our soil and to
help make it more sustainable tocontinue farming practices
today.
So fascinating conversation froma really wonderful woman.
(02:51):
And I hope you enjoy it.
See you there.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (02:55):
I am so grateful today to be able
to share a conversation withAbigail Levi.
I think by the, not even by theend, by a few minutes in, you
will see why I, I'm reallygrateful to share this time.
Abigail has done so.
Abigail is a person that I loveto talk to.
It just gives me hope for thegeneration coming up right
(03:15):
behind mine that there arepeople paying attention to what
they wanna learn and goingforward with what they wanna do
and how they can make adifference in Not only their
life, but other people's life toimprove the culture in general,
that Abigail is one of thesepeople.
So welcome Abby.
It's nice to talk to you today.
Track 1 (03:35):
Oh, thank you so much, Becca.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (03:37):
You are welcome.
So Abigail is, if you have seenin health food stores, there's a
dutch oven, sourdough breadcalled Abigail's oven and it is
one of the only breads that Ican buy in a store that I can
digest.
So I am very sensitive togluten, as are a lot of people
with health problems.
Whether they know it or not.
(03:59):
So I don't even really payattention to what's on the bread
aisle for myself certainly.
But someone asked me to try yourbread and I did.
So knowing that I might bemiserable that night and the
next day, but I wasn't.
I was so happy.
I still remember like literaljoy that I felt slicing avocados
(04:20):
and having avocado bread onactual chewy delicious,
wonderful bread like I can'ttell you what that meant to me.
I hadn't had bread in like fiveyears so I went to a
regenerative gardening bootcampin Nevada and when I walked
through the door there was a boxfull of Abigail's oven bread and
(04:40):
I was like, oh, Abigail's ovenbread.
These people know about this.
That's so cool.
How do you know Abigail's ovenbread and.
They were like, well, that'sAbigail.
I'm like, Abigail, likeAbigail's, like this is her
oven.
like, I'm meeting a superstar inmy world.
You are a superstar.
So what I would like to startwith asking you about is how was
(05:01):
Abigail's oven started?
Because you are just in yourearly twenties and it's big
enough that I found it in ahealth food store.
Track 1 (05:08):
Thank you so much for the intro.
I was, I'm so happy that youbrought up the fact that you can
eat our bread because that'sreally our mission and we really
want to help people tounderstand and the, and learn
about the health of their bodiesand how they can have products
that can help them feel good andnot nasty in their stomach.
So like.
(05:28):
Becca said, I am Abigail fromAbigail's Oven, but I can't take
all the credit.
This is a family business rightnow.
My parents run the bakery and mysiblings have helped out and
it's been a wonderful journey.
But I actually began when I was10 years old and I lived in
Cedar City, Utah,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (05:45):
I didn't know that
Track 1 (05:47):
Yeah, so actually it started, started in your
hometown and that's where itbegan.
My, I grew up in Cedar Cityactually.
And so when I was 10, I heard astory of this girl, my mom's
friend's daughter who had soldenough bread that she could
serve an LDS mission.
(06:07):
And so she saved up and shedecided to go to a different
country and.
Teach about Jesus Christ, andthat was something that I always
wanted to do growing up.
And so she had done that andthat was something that I wanted
to do.
And so I saw, I had a great rolemodel.
She had started to sell bread.
It wasn't sourdough bread, and Ihadn't actually been introduced
to sourdough bread yet.
And so what I was, I decided todo was to start a bread
(06:30):
business.
I really wanted to start abusiness before that, but I
didn't know what to do.
And so she inspired
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (06:35):
Before 10 years old, you wanted to
start
Track 1 (06:37):
Well, before I learned about the bread business, yeah,
about eight.
I asked my mom, I was like, oh,I wanna start a business.
And I think she caught me, meand my, my little brother, we
had drawn pictures and we hadtaken them to our neighbors.
It's, and sold them for like aquarter or something.
And my mom, she brought us backand she's like, guys, this is so
awesome that you wanna createvalue, but when you, that you
(06:58):
wanna sell things, but when yousell things, you need to, give
something that's valuable tosomeone else.
And she said, if you want todraw pictures, that's great, but
you need to make sure that yourpictures are beautiful and
people want that.
And so we were like, okay, wellwhat can we do to, to give
value?
And so I had already had abackground of wanting to sell
things.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (07:15):
And wanting
Track 1 (07:16):
often tell people
dr-becca-whittaker_2_1 (07:17):
valuable for others.
Track 1 (07:18):
Mm-Hmm,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (07:19):
is bonus parenting move right
there.
Track 1 (07:21):
Right.
And so those are the two thingsthat I think that I had that
really going for me were I hadgreat mentors in the form of my
two parents that were justamazing.
They supported me, they helpedme believe that I could do
whatever I wanted and all Ineeded to do was work hard and
make sure that I was creatingsomething good in the world.
And then I also had that rolemodel of someone else who had
done the same thing who had hadStarted a business, so I decided
(07:45):
to do it.
I, I made bread.
I had already known how to makebread because it was one of my
chores as a member of a bigfamily.
And so I knew how to make bread.
I made,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (07:54):
sorry, I'm gonna interrupt you.
So how many children are in yourfamily?
You said big family.
Track 1 (07:59):
so I am the oldest of 10.
So my, my parents had 10 kids.
At the time, I think I, therewas five of us when I was 10.
dr-becca-whittaker_ (08:06):
hallelujah.
That you are a natural leader.
I had best friends that werethe, some of the older of the,
of 11 children in one family.
I'm like, wow, extra leadershipis very helpful.
Track 1 (08:19):
Yes,
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (08:19):
you're 10, you're the oldest, and
you're going, okay, here we go.
Track 1 (08:23):
Yes.
And I was, I was living actuallyjust outside of Cedar City, so
we were outside of town and Ijust over by the airport and we.
I decided to sell to myneighbors.
So I started selling to myneighbors.
They loved it, but it was veryrandom.
I would make bread when I feltlike it and sold it.
And one of my neighbors waslike, Abby, I never know when
you're coming and I never knowif I should buy bread at the
grocery store or not.
Will you just bring me breadevery week?
(08:44):
And I was like, oh, that'sbrilliant.
I'm going to start a deliverycompany so then I don't have to
do all the work to sell it.
I can just have returncustomers.
And so I hired my dad to driveme because I was still young and
I made bread and I would deliverit.
I kept a chart on Excel, and Iwould just deliver it to the
right house and I would, wewould get more and more
(09:06):
customers.
And by the time I was 11, thesummer of my 11th year, I had
350 customers.
And in the process my dad had.
Been working to finish hiseducation and he decided to stop
his day job and he decided tohelp me and it became our family
(09:26):
income by 20 20, 20 11.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (09:28):
Wow.
Track 1 (09:29):
So it went from me just having a project, wanting to
sell things, to finding a name,Abigail's Oven, and to building
a brand and creating a lot ofvalue for people.
And so I was able to
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (09:42):
you to ask another question.
What was your kitchen like atthis point?
I mean, there's multiplechildren and your 350 customers
a week.
Track 1 (09:51):
Yeah, so I didn't deliver to all of them once a
week.
I had a system of one once everyweek or twice a month or a
monthly, but it was still a lot.
And I look back and I don'tknow, after now we have a
bakery, right?
And we make thousands of loaveswith these big ovens that do 250
at a time.
So I'm like, I don't know how Idid it.
We had two ovens at the time,and we could do In one batch.
(10:16):
And so I don't know how wemanaged to do everything
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (10:20):
You did like bread for most of the
kitchen and a tiny other portionwas all the other meal space
Track 1 (10:26):
exactly.
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (10:28):
we do when we're starting things.
We just jump in and you caneither wait until you have the
perfect kitchen and the hugeequipment to even start, or you
can just start and you grow asyou need to.
That is truthfully the bestBusinesses that I know you start
(10:48):
and you just solve the problemsas they come.
I love that your family wassupportive as well.
Track 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
My mom was an angel.
The reason I didn't start when Iwas eight years old was because
she said, no, you can't start abusiness because I'll end up
doing all the work, and So shealways tells that part of the
story because as a mom, that's alot, right?
She already had five kids, butshe's amazing and it has since
evolved.
I knew that homemade bread wasbetter than store-bought bread
(11:16):
just because of the love thatyou put into it and you can
control the quality ofingredients.
But I didn't understand anythingabout sourdough.
So to give our listeners alittle bit of context, our
bakery now is completelysourdough.
We sell eight different flavorsof sourdough bread 10 during the
holidays, and we.
We specialize in a 24 hourferment, so it's a full real
(11:40):
sourdough.
And so we moved up to Provoarea.
So we're in Utah County in 2013,and my dad had gotten a job and
in the educational world he wasbuilding education programs,
which was he really loved, buthe just wasn't a desk job
person.
And I had started up.
(12:00):
The, the bakery a little bitjust to have some extra cash
because I was like, I'm nevergonna get back to 300 customers.
I had to say goodbye to all ofthem.
It was so sad.
But I'll, I'll continue it to,to get some extra cash to, to
earn some money.
While I am in my high schoolyears my mom and dad had met a
guy named Gov Allen, and he'samazing.
He had learned to make sourdoughin San Francisco.
(12:22):
California.
And so as I was selling bread mymom was like, well, let's make
some sourdough.
And I was like, oh, no,sourdough just has that weird
flavor.
I don't really wanna go forsourdough.
I like our, our nice fluffybread that's you know, kind of
cake like, but still got some,it's homemade so it's got good
qualities to it.
(12:43):
And.
It was actually my greatgrandma's recipe.
I can't, I can't cheat on mygreat grandma, right?
Like I have to stick to thefamily recipe.
But my mom had learned how tomake sourdough from gov, and
that was a Dutch oven method.
To put sourdough in a DutchDutch oven and it's 24 hours per
minute.
And it was so much work.
But what we found is that's whenwe were introduced to the health
of sourdough.
(13:04):
And my dad, he has alwaysstruggled with bread.
Ironically, I, I make breadgrowing up and he couldn't, he
couldn't eat it very well.
His, his gut just couldn'tdigest the gluten and so he kind
of just stayed away from it.
And we always felt sad aboutthat, but I was.
I told my dad, dad, I'm notmaking gluten-free bread.
I'm sorry, but have you tried tobake with those flowers like
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (13:25):
It's terrible.
Track 1 (13:26):
It's, it's.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (13:27):
WHen I shifted over to being
gluten-free, I tried buyingnearly every brand and oh good.
Like I'd just rather not havebread.
I just wrap things in lettuce,but all to have the smell of
fresh bread around me all thetime.
I don't know what kind ofamazing self-control your father
had.
I would wanna bury my face in itanyway.
Track 1 (13:52):
my hat is off to all the amazing, I have amazing
friends who are gluten-freebakers, and they do an amazing
job, and I just don't know howthey do it.
It's beyond me, my skill level,they, they are able to take the,
the flour that they have andcreate wonderful products.
So if, if you know someonethat's like that, it's really
amazing and I love that they'reable to, and I really struggled
(14:13):
with that.
And so I was like, dad, no,sorry.
Well, you can go buy some fromthe store or just.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (14:19):
Yep.
Track 1 (14:20):
I don't go make some spaghetti the
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (14:23):
Go make some
Track 1 (14:24):
right?
But so when gov told us, hesaid, oh, and by the way,
sourdough is actually reallygood for your gut.
Because it is processed.
A lot of people that strugglewith gluten can actually digest
it.
Because what, what happens iswith wheat in general, it should
be sprouted or fermented becausethat kernel, when you grind it
(14:47):
up, there's a brand and there'sa, a phytic acid on there, that
what it does is when it isdissolved, the wheat will re
release a lot of nutrients andwhen it is fermented.
What it does is it breaks downthe gluten strands that are, are
(15:07):
made when you make bread.
There's a, a thing called glutenand wheat that we're, we've been
talking about, right?
And that is in its raw form,very hard to digest.
foR us in our humans.
Just like we can't go outsideand lick a rock and say, oh,
that's my iron for the day.
we, there is some things ingrains that we need to be
processed first so that ourdigestive system can handle it.
(15:31):
And so in gluten, in its rawform does not make our, our
digestive system in our guthappy.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (15:39):
Right.
Track 1 (15:39):
But if it is fermented, what it does is my mom says it
kind of breaks it down orpredigests it for us.
Just like a plant would takeiron from the ground and make it
into a bio.
Digestible form.
So I really like that comparisonbecause it's true.
We, we need plants to get theminerals from the ground to give
(16:00):
us the nutrients that we need.
And it's the same kind of thingwith fermentation.
And so what it is, is asourdough is a living yeast and
it's bacteria, and as it, youput water and flour together and
you let it sit and ferment, whatit does is the bacteria breaks
down all of the gluten for youand it makes it completely
digestible for you.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (16:21):
Yeah, I, I, find that so fascinating.
So the commercial yeasts thatthey use in bread, actually I've
heard, I don't remember whichstrain it is, but it's strain
similar to mushrooms in their.
basically created, synthesizedin labs also to be very rapidly
producing and very hardy.
(16:41):
And I know even baking, itcannot make, even when it's
baked, some of those strainsdon't die.
And then they continue in ourguts, which is like the bloating
nastiness.
It's literally the yeastcontinuing is part of the bloat.
Part of it is allergy, but Ilearned until me.
(17:01):
If this tracks with what you'relearning.
I learned that the naturalbacteria that you use when
you're creating sourdough notonly is digesting the starches,
but also their byproduct issuper healthy for us.
It like helps predigests, whichis great, but also releases some
other nutrients that we need.
(17:22):
So not only is the other onereally bad for us, but this one
is really good.
And doesn't it also make theglycemic index lower?
I think I read sourdough breadis
Track 1 (17:31):
gonna.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (17:32):
yeah, sourdough bread's like a.
60 or something, or 68 on theglycemic index.
And normal commercial bread is ahundred, which is the highest
the glycemic index goes.
Track 1 (17:43):
Yeah.
And so it can get kind ofconfusing'cause we're talking
about two different kinds ofyeast, but they're both yeast,
right?
There's a natural yeast, whichwe call a sourdough starter, and
we call it natural yeast becauseit just, it happens with, with
the bacteria and the flour, thewater and the air.
And it's a fermenting process.
And you're right, there's acommercial yeast that was
created to accelerate theprocess of rising bread.
(18:04):
And so what happens is thenatural yeast helps to ignite
with the gluten to make thebread rise and the.
The commercial yeast does thesame thing and it just
accelerates the process and itdoes it really fast.
And what you said was exactlytrue.
A lot of people don't realizethat when they eat the
commercial yeast, they actuallycrave sugar because those
strands are still there, andthose strands want to be fed by
(18:26):
sugar.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (18:26):
Ah.
Track 1 (18:27):
And so it actually and there's, there's some, if you
guys want sources for this andstuff, we have a lot of blogs on
our website.
So you can go to abigailsoven.com and look these kind of
things up.
So then, you know, I'm not justsaying my personal opinion, but
I do have some research andwe've written some blogs to back
that up.
But what happens is with thenatural yeast, it lowers the
glycemic content, not just forthe bread.
(18:50):
Or the carbs that you're eating,but it's actually for your whole
entire meal because it's goinginto your gut and it's going to
help you to process it all.
So it's really cool if you havea slice of sourdough with your
meal, it's actually healthierover round, not just because
you're not eating bad bread, butthe natural prebiotics in the
bread help the whole digestivesystem.
(19:14):
I, we have chiropractors andhealth professionals that
actually prescribe our bread orprescribe a real sourdough
because it can help to healsomeone who are, is struggling
with other digestive problems intheir gut, with the bacteria
content.
And so it's very fascinating andI encourage all of you to do
some research for yourself to,to find out what the experts
(19:36):
have found with their studiesand How everything works.
But what I can say is I know itworks because I have met people
like Becca and I have been ableto interact with miracles where
people have been able to havebread and have a better and
healthy lifestyle because of thebeauty of sourdough.
(19:56):
So it's, it's incredible what wehave learned and that has become
the mission of Abigail's Oven.
We're now going on year nine.
Since my parents partnered upwith me and we found a bakery in
Spanish Fork, a, a building, webuilt it out and now we sell
bread all throughout Utah and weship all over the country and we
(20:17):
make tons of bread hoping thatwe can get a healthy product
into people's homes to help themhave a healthy lifestyle and be
happy and live their dreams.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (20:27):
And you showed me a picture of your
ovens.
There are these massive ovensthat can
Track 1 (20:31):
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (20:32):
these adorable miniature Dutch ovens
where each loaf is.
I think it's amazing.
Okay.
So then fast forward, yourparents took over the business
when you did indeed earn enoughmoney to go on this, on the
religious mission that youwanted to go
Track 1 (20:48):
Yep.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (20:49):
Yes.
so so neat.
So you went to London, correct.
Track 1 (20:55):
Mm-Hmm.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12- (20:55):
London is one of the places where so I
have visited there twice and a afew other countries, a few other
times.
And when I am in.
The other countries by about daythree or day four when my system
relaxes and I am used to eatingfoods that are more natural and
not sprayed with as manychemicals and just crap as the
(21:18):
United States food is.
I start to be able to eatgluten, but they're kind of
gluten.
I actually heard my friend, andforgive me, I don't know what
she was watching but she waswatching a show about how they
make pasta in Italy.
Because they use their regularflour there, but they ferment it
(21:38):
longer in these big batches.
And this man that had this bigpasta factory was talking about
how Americans come to Italy andcan eat the pasta and it's
different.
He was saying, this is why it'sdifferent.
We ferment it this long, we dothis long process.
And he said, what takes them ayear to make the volume of pasta
(21:58):
and the quality of pasta a yeartakes three.
Was it three days?
No, three hours in an Americanfactory.
I just thought, well, we areeating drl three hours versus
one year.
I mean, I can see if you need tofeed a lot of people why you
wanna speed that process up.
(22:19):
But in other countries, the foodreally does taste and process
differently.
So did you have that experiencein London also?
And can you tell me a little bitabout what we do to the flower?
Here or to the grains growing inthe flour that can make it so we
feel so different in or out ofcountry.
Track 1 (22:37):
Yes, yes, of course.
There are lots of differentfactors.
Just to caveat at the beginning,there could be many different
things and I do think it has alot to do with the fermentation
process and the style ofharvesting.
That they have in othercountries compared to what we
have.
But I did have that experienceactually when I was in London.
It was amazing to see a lot ofthe style of bread wasn't
(23:01):
necessarily maybe a truesourdough, but they still let it
sit a lot longer than mostbreads that are in the us.
The US doesn't do super greatwith bread, and I'm sorry if
that hurts anyone's feelings,but we're just, we're just not
very good at bread
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (23:14):
We're
Track 1 (23:15):
It's not our.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (23:15):
fast producers.
Track 1 (23:17):
Yes, very fast.
And I think my mom has a, aphrase that she has coined.
And I always quote her, shealways says that if you look at
the history of wheat and thehistory of bread and how it has
evolved, you'll see that we havetraded convenience for
nutrition.
And I think that is a true aprinciple for a lot of the
(23:38):
things that have evolved areespecially food-wise in our
society, but specifically bread.
It has been very stark.
When commercial use wasinvented, we.
We decided to trade convenienceof, okay, now we don't have to
let it sit for 24 hours or likedo the whole process.
It's now a two hour process or a30 minute process.
And a lot of times we don'trealize that there are
(24:01):
consequences to that.
But to speak to the quality offlour, I think that yOur
experience in Italy is so coolbecause what they do is they
process things.
I'm not sure specifically whatyou experienced with that
specific grower, but our, ourgrowers
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (24:17):
go to Italy.
My friend was just watching ashow of Italy, but I found that
in Bolivia, Peru, London, andJapan, all those places I can
eat so.
Track 1 (24:27):
That's amazing.
So there are a lot of laws inEngland.
I know for sure.
I don't know any of the otherplaces, but about what you can
spray, what you can't, you can'tspray on or crops.
And I know that the flour thatwe use matters.
So the quality of youringredients is going to directly
(24:47):
have, like, directly impact theexperience you'll have eating
and your body processing thoseingredients.
And so there's lots of things.
There's what we put on ourwheat, right?
There's the spraying there's theprocessing and all of that
stuff.
And any additives that you.
You put, and then there's alsowhat kind of wheat we're using.
(25:08):
So there is this thing calleddwarf wheat.
There's GMO types of plants andthings like that.
And so whether you're usingancient grain versus a, a new
developed grain, those all arefactors in what makes a healthy
quality product.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (25:26):
So how did you choose what flour to
use and what were you lookingfor or avoiding?
Track 1 (25:32):
Yes.
Okay.
So the flower we use right nowis from a mill in Logan, Utah.
They are, it's called centralmilling and we use a baker's
blend and we love them becausethey make a blend where they
actually just grind the wheatreally, really fine, and they
(25:52):
add the brand back in.
And so a lot of the nutrients isactually in the kernel and
that's why people say wheatbread is so much healthier,
right?
The difference between wheatflour and white flour is oddly
not very well known.
I, I thought it would be obvious'cause I grew up baking, but a
lot of people don't realize whatthe difference is.
What it is, is when you grindwheat, there is a, the kernel is
(26:14):
still on it not on it, but thekernel is ground up as well, and
they, it doesn't grind as fineas what the inside of the actual
wheat is.
And so it's a little morecoarse, but a lot of the
nutrients of the wheat is onthat kernel.
And so when you sift it out tomake white flour, which is what
white flour is, it's wheat flourthat has been sifted and usually
(26:37):
bleached or refined in aspecific way to make it lighter,
fluffier, and white.
It's really good for pastriesand I suggest that people use it
for pastries all the time.
But.
The, the, the most nutrients.
If you want the most nutrients,you get a grain and you grind it
yourself because the fresher itis that it's from its ground.
(26:58):
And the more of the kernel youhave in it, the more healthy,
nutritious it will be.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (27:04):
Isn't
Track 1 (27:04):
we
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07 (27:05):
fat, like healthy fats that can go
rancid after it is actuallyturned into a flower?
Track 1 (27:12):
mm-Hmm.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (27:12):
so the faster you do it, then you
can still utilize those healthyfats instead of having them go
rancid.
Am I right in that?
Track 1 (27:21):
Mm-Hmm.
And what happens is the phyticacid that's on the outside of
the kernel, when it isfermented, it helps to unlock
all the nutrients.
It's like the, the, the key tothe door of all, a lot of the
nutrients in the flour.
A lot of people are like, oh,weed is so bad for you.
A lot.
It is not.
It has been the staple of almostevery society.
(27:42):
Is what people have, have livedoff of is a lot of grains,
right?
And so it, it can be unhealthyif it is not processed correctly
and if it's not unlocked the
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (27:53):
I remember a discussion with my
father, so I started learningabout health and nutrition when
I was in college, and it hadn'treally been anything we ever
focused on.
Food was just a thing we neededto do.
I'm the middle of sevenchildren.
You just need to feed thebeasts.
just need to feed the minionsbut.
(28:14):
I started to be interested init.
And when I started telling himabout having fewer grains and
carbohydrates, he thought I wasfull of crap because he was a
very religious person and wasreferencing like wheat being a
basis for what we need and afruit of the earth.
And, but I was looking at theresearch I was seeing and
wondering how does thiscorrelate, you know, is it, is
(28:37):
some of it just colloquialwisdom passed down that is, is
not applicable anymore?
And what I'm actually coming tothat is not a Bible or religious
statement, is just, I think thewheat has changed.
Like you said, there's so manydifferent kinds of GMO,
everything.
I think we've messed with it.
Plus for me, what I know I'm themost sensitive to is what they
(28:59):
spray on it.
So when they spray.
the glyphosate.
For those of you who have notever heard of it, I'm gonna
break it down a little.
For those of you who know allabout it, just stay with me.
But glyphosate, they spray on itto help with weeded control,
correct.
Abigail?
Is that what you understand?
But it gets on that seed kerneland that is the part, and once
(29:23):
it's on that seed kernel, thenas you turn it into flour, you
have the poison mixed in.
Glyphosate basically punchesholes in the lining of your gut,
and it contributes a ton toautoimmune disease because those
tiny little holes in your gutcan they affect the seal of the
gut, which means you'reaffecting the entire culture
within the gut of bacteria ofnutrients.
(29:45):
And some food can actually Getout, which causes an immune
autoimmune reaction in yourbody.
So it's basically like mixingpoison in with the flour that
ends up making your whole bodyangry.
I remember learning some ofthose things that were highest
in glyphosate, like Cheerios aresome of the highest glyphosate
(30:06):
containing foods There are anycompany now that is big food
producer is usually usingcompanies that have to grow so
much that they have to basicallypoison their crop to make it
more efficient for weededcontrol and harvesting.
(30:27):
But it's not great So how do yousource your, were you looking
for that when you were sourcingyour flour from different
companies, or what else do youlook for as far as the
pesticides sprayed on?
On the
Track 1 (30:44):
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's a, a huge point.
What we put in our body matters,and a lot of times it's hard to
find a flower that hasn't beenused.
But the nice thing is you canfind some wheat that hasn't been
sprayed at all with fertilizeror any glyphosate or any other
(31:06):
pesticide resistant sprays orthings like that.
Here let things, somethinghasn't been gm.
Un fortified.
So if you don't know what thatmeans, fortified means that
there's additives people thathave added things back into the
(31:27):
flour for different things.
Sometimes it's a really goodthing'cause they wanna try to
make it more nutritious becauseby taking the brand out, you're
taking some of the nutritionout.
But a lot of times they, theyadd, they add what they say is
nutritious.
A lot of times they'll adddifferent metals back into the,
the flour, but like, just likethe gluten isn't very digestible
(31:50):
for our guts, you can't just addraw minerals into something that
is not already available to ourgut digestive system.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (31:58):
And I know the
Track 1 (31:58):
And so.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (31:59):
often are not in a form that we can
digest in the first place, Iknow a lot of those additives
really can muck up ourdetoxification channels'cause
we're trying to get rid of thethings that are not actually
food in the way we can processit.
Track 1 (32:13):
So when a flower says fortified, I, I usually avoid,
we, we avoid using thoseflowers.
alSo the shelf life of a flower,if you're getting flour that's
already ground.
liKe, like I said earlier, you,you have, the nutrition kind of
goes down exponentially andthere is risk of.
Other things happening to theflour.
And so the, the fresher it isthe, the better and the better
(32:36):
quality your bread will turn outand then, or whatever you're
making with flour.
And then we try to go withorganic.
I know you can't always trustthe word organic always, but I,
I think if you know your growerand you, you know, that that's
important to them to do as muchas closest to the organic
process of growing wheat.
(32:57):
They're not, they're not addingtoo much.
They're not trying to change toomuch of the process.
That is also important to us.
So if you want quality flour,you get something that is
closest to an ancient grain aspossible as little split, and
then that something that isunfortified and not sprayed.
And then if it can be organic,that's great.
(33:18):
Or if you know your grower, youknow that they are.
Very health conscious of theconsequences of spraying
chemicals on your food and whatthose, how those affect your
body.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-20 (33:30):
I know we don't really want to
point out or not point outbrands, but if I know you order
a lot of flowers so you canreally go with those companies.
If we're just walking down anormal aisle, is there a brand
or two that you, that you like?
That seems like a pretty good.
(33:50):
Thing to look for.
Track 1 (33:51):
King Arthur king Arthur's Flour is a really good
brand.
We, we like them, they do areally good job with their farms
are, are reliable.
They don't do a ton ofprocessing, which is really
good.
And then central milling, if youcan ever find central milling,
we really like central milling alot, and there's a couple other
brands.
(34:11):
If you want a list of brands,you can go to abigail's oven.com
and there's a, there's a blogpost about flour and it has all
the brands in Utah that werecommend making sourdough with.
I can't remember all of them offthe top of our heads.
We usually just have our, ourmain one.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-0 (34:28):
Okay.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Track 1 (34:30):
Arthur, you can order online central milling.
You can order online.
They'll ship it to your house.
And you can also find otherorganic grains around in.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07-2 (34:40):
I.
Okay, so fast forward then youcame back from London where you
were eating delightfully,unsprayed, delicious food, and
you had some decisions to make.
So tell me about your nextstages, and I wanna talk about
what you're doing now.
Track 1 (34:58):
Yeah, so really quickly, we, I got back and my,
my parents have already hadalready figured out how to do
the bakery without me.
I mean, they were already doingit a lot before I left, but they
were doing really well.
They were being very successfuland I was like, well, I could
get back into the bakery.
And work on that and continuewith that in my life.
Or I could take this opportunityto explore some other things and
get an education and maybefigure out if there's other
(35:21):
passions that I want to pursue.
And so I decided to go toschool.
I went to BYU Idaho studyingsmall business management.
I've always been a businessgirl.
From the beginning people, so alot of people think that I'm a
baker.
They're like, oh, you, youmust've just loved baking and
wanted it, wanted to make moneywith it.
And I've said, well, actuallyit's the opposite.
I love business and I knew howto bake so it, it kind of worked
(35:41):
out the opposite way.
But so I decided to studybusiness and I loved it.
I loved my classes.
It was a really great school,but I am a doer.
I need to be working with myhands.
And it was really hard for me tobe in an educational environment
where I was in a classroom andthere was a lot of theory and I
was like, I just need to dosomething.
And I think an education isreally good, but for me, I
decided it would be best to justgo start pursuing other things.
(36:05):
And so I always had beeninterested in agriculture just
because we use wheat and flour.
And I had to learn about a lotabout how that's grown and where
it comes from.
And so I've.
I was curious about that.
So I attended a college,Monticello College, who focuses
on sustainability.
And connecting with the land.
And then I met William Demillthrough that college and I
(36:28):
decided to take William DemMill's course.
It's a soil science course thatis 17 weeks long.
And you go and live on his, onthe ranch that he works at, and
he teaches you the biology andabout biology in the soil.
He teaches you how to heal thesoil and create a functioning
soil so you can grow nutritiousfood.
And he focuses on beingprofitable without adding a ton
(36:49):
of.
Things to your garden, to yourfarm such as glyphosate, because
a lot of people, they don'twanna use glyphosate, but they
use it because they can't getrid of the weeds.
They can't get rid of the pests.
They can't get rid of a lot ofthe, they spray things and they
need to add fertilizer becausethey can't get their plants to
grow.
And so he taught me about thehealth of a, the soil and how
(37:11):
it's important to have thehealth of the soil so that the
soil can actually support theplants and the food that we we
consume.
And that translate into ahealthy lifestyle.
And so I was inspired by thatbecause I.
when people ate our bread, italso helped to create a healthy
lifestyle because when your bodyis healthy and when your body's
(37:32):
happy and eating good things,that translates into family
happiness and career happinessand all of the other things.
And I was inspired because I, Ithink that farming is such a
holy profession.
It's always been the, thefoundation of America.
We need farmers and we needpeople to, to be working with
the land to.
Help create resources.
(37:54):
And so I was inspired by thatand I decided that that was
something I wanted to pursue,not only so that I could maybe
figure out how to grow wheat forAbigail's oven.
'cause I thought that would bereally cool if I could produce
the wheat that we actually growso that we can be more
sustainable.
Because that is really importantto me to, to not have to rely so
much on middlemen or, or second.
(38:15):
Second things, but if we couldproduce it ourselves, it would
be that much more reliable afterlearning about the health of the
soil and how that translatesinto healthy bodies,, now I'm, I
took the course, I graduated andI work for William right now,
marketing for his course.
And helping to make the world abetter place and bring hope for
(38:36):
people that are in the farmingindustry or are thinking about
going into the farming industrybecause they I think a lot of
times in our, in our modernsociety, it's hard because it's
really hard.
Hard to have a profitable farm.
if you've been in thatprofession before, you would
know it can be hard withoutadding a lot of fertilizer and
stuff like that, but that'sexpensive and that adds to your
(38:57):
over overhead.
And William has helped me tolearn that if we, as we mimic
nature and we use principleslearned from permaculture,
biodynamics, and regenerativeagriculture, that we can farm
mimicking nature.
Still be profitable because wedon't have to add so much.
It's just changing ourmanagement style.
(39:18):
And so I hope that I can helpbring hope to the younger
generation and to the farming,the farmers and ranchers out
there who are doing amazingthings.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (39:27):
Oh, that's just so beautiful.
So I know the reader, thelisteners can't see my face, but
I'm like smiling all overinside.
As soon as you say you foundWilliam Dimm Mill's work,
because I am having him as aguest on the show, which I'm so
excited and grateful about.
I heard him on a podcast and hewas talking about living soil
(39:48):
and It just lit a fire in me.
I just kept researching.
I was watching everything Icould find him hi of his on
YouTube.
I joined his Patreon accountbecause it just made so much
sense.
He talked about the soil in away that I understood the gut,
and he talked about thediversity that's needed and the
hope for are healing the soil.
(40:10):
And I mean, I had heard so muchof negativity about like we are
not negativity, but the coldhard truth of that.
We are killing the soil.
There's not nutrients in ourfood.
There is poison in our food, butyou can feel really helpless.
Like, I mean, I have to eat andmy family has to eat.
And yes, I see the terriblehabits being taught to families
(40:34):
and children, and I know we'rein an autoimmune culture, but
what are you supposed to doabout it if big, huge companies
are killing the earth?
Like, ah, what can you do?
Right?
Where Williams' message, messagewas a message of hope.
I actually tore out my flowerbeds and turned them into
garden.
(40:54):
So I had these like big terracesof gardens in front of my home,
and I just did exactly what hesaid because he came at it from
a science perspective, but alsofrom a, this is our relationship
with the earth.
Like this is part of ourresponsibility as people on the
earth to care.
Take it and how do you care?
Take it if you don't know whatyou're doing.
(41:15):
Lots of us are raised in aculture where we think we do
need to put fertilizer oneverything.
And.
weed killer on everything.
And then we expect the earth togrow nutrients with that way.
And I didn't realize there was away that was better, but also
less expensive and also worksbetter.
The food, I mean, I could tastea big difference.
(41:37):
It's way more pest resistantwhen you work with the soil and
it's delicious and morenutritious.
It was just amazing that Solowhen you were doing that course
is when I did a bootcamp out onthat same farm, and that was how
you and I connected.
Track 1 (41:53):
Yeah.
dr-becca-whittaker_2_12-07- (41:53):
But I love that you are now creating
a business that reaches out toteach other people how to give
them hope and to teach them andconnect farmers with good
information and people growingup and wanting to look into
farming.
With better information too, sothat it can be possible.
We are getting a huge outflux offarmers because it's just so
(42:16):
expensive.
The land is expensive, theequipment is expensive, the
fertilizer's expensive.
And I know William teaches adifferent method where you do
not need the expensive equipmentand you basically help the soil
in a way that you're giving itits own natural fertilizer.
I think it's just so valuable.
Abigail, I.
(42:37):
Because sometimes the peopleworking so hard at it can't
really market or share themessage.
And I think that's where Williamprobably was.
They live on a self-sustainingranch.
They are responsible for growingall of the food that the cattle
workers and the families andeverything take in that that
live on ranch.
So they have to be activelyworking, doing the food, and
(42:59):
thank you for sharing themessage of what they're doing so
we can spread it to more people.
That's the message that I feelwhenever I think about you,
Abigail, you're one of thosepeople.
That is a light for me.
That reminds me there are otherlights.
Because we hear a lot about thedanger of things or the, the
problems and the negativitybecause that is what sells and
(43:22):
because our brains pay attentionto that.
But that doesn't mean that's allthere is.
There are definitely peopleworking to regenerate the soil.
William is one of them.
I don't know if any readershave, or any listeners have
listened to Zach Bush, md He'sanother one that talks about it.
There is a whole Movement ofpeople that want to care take
(43:44):
the earth.
So we work with the earth well,we get nutrients in the food.
Then we figure out how toprocess the food so that we can
use it.
Then our healthy bodies canthink better and move better,
and our emotional state isbetter and then we reach out to
help others.
It is a process of healing thatis actively happening.
(44:05):
So thank you, Abigail.
And thank you for joining ustoday.
So until next time, I get to runinto you at some cool
regenerative gardening thing.
thank you for joining us, We'lltalk soon.
Bye.
Hey, I am so glad you were withus for that conversation.
(44:25):
My takeaways would be theingredients we use, how they are
grown and how they are processedmatters.
What we take into our bodymatters.
And when we do it one way or theother, these foods can either
wreck our guts.
or help build our guts with thebacterial culture, with breaking
(44:46):
down the food, with helping ourenzymes function, or with
shutting our enzymes down.
They can worsen autoimmuneconditions by causing leaky gut
and, um, the chaos that happenswhen our gut is not sealed very
well.
Or they can begin to healautoimmune conditions by helping
us digest and using thoseenzymes.
So it's wonderful to rememberthat.
(45:08):
And I love the resources sheshared.
If you want to know more, I haveall of those resources linked in
the show notes.
Second would be her work withWilliam DeMille.
I find so fascinating.
I love how she talked aboutreally wanting to connect
farmers, with more informationand resources about how they can
continue to farm and be able toafford it, how they can use
(45:32):
practices to rehabilitate thatsoil and what that does for
making.
The plants more pest resistant,have more nutrient density.
Um, I love that she is workingto connect those pieces because
there are a culture of peoplethat are learning that science,
(45:52):
incorporating that wisdom intocaretaking of the earth.
But sometimes it's a little bitdifficult for farmers with boots
on the ground to actually findit themselves when they are
doing so much of the hard work.
So that connection is wonderful.
And the last takeaway would be amessage of hope for me.
(46:13):
We hear so much about the soilhas no nutrients.
The food isn't good for us.
This company is poisoning thefood supply chain.
The next generation doesn't evenknow where their food comes
from.
And it can really take a hit onour hope for humanity, for the
earth, for our health.
(46:34):
And when I talk to people whoare coming up in the ranks of
experience and really trying toconnect pieces and communities
and information and.
Purpose.
It makes me feel so much hope,but to have that be happening in
a younger generation is proofthat there are the things
(46:56):
happening that are not good forour planet or for our species or
for the other species that areon this planet with us.
But there.
There are also people gatheringtogether, movements, forming,
people trying to make adifference.
And this podcast is about beingone of those people.
(47:17):
So it was wonderful to rememberthat I am not alone and that
neither are you and neither isshe.
So join us again next time.
And we'll just keep buildingthis community of hope and
purpose and knowledge untilthen.
Bye.
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