Strengthening Your Pelvic Floor and Body Alignment Like a Badass Does with Lindsay Mumma DC

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the WhatReally Makes a Difference
podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Becca Whittaker.
I've been a doctor of naturalhealth care for over 20 years
and a professional speaker onhealth and vitality, but
everything I thought I knewabout health was tested when my
own health hit a landslide and Ibecame a very sick patient.

(00:23):
I've learned that showing up forour own health and vitality is a
step by step journey that wetake for the rest of our lives.
And this podcast is aboutsharing some of the things that
really make a difference on thatjourney with you.
So grab your explorer's hatwhile we get ready to check out
today's topic.
My incredible guest network andI will be sharing some practical

(00:45):
tools, current science andancient wisdom that we all need,
no matter what stage we are atin our health and vitality.
I've already got my hat on andmy hand out, so let's dive in
and we can all start walkingeach other home.

(01:06):
Oh, I'm so excited to introduceyou to Dr.
Lindsey MoMA today.
It is going to be a great showand she's just one of my
favorite people.
So I met Dr.
MoMA when she was presenting atthe largest chiropractic
conference in the world.
It.
It happens in Vegas and we goevery year.
And she was teaching aboutpelvic floor stability and

(01:27):
biomechanics.
And her teachings just resonatedwith me so well that I dumped
the rest of the speakers that Iwas planning on going to watch.
So that I could listen to allthree parts of what she had to
say.
And I was just getting back inthe mode where I could
physically pay attention andtake notes at the same time.
And I wrote just note after noteand I still refer to them today.

(01:51):
Side note.
I was still in a wheelchair whenI met Dr.
MoMA and I saw her in thehallway.
And I just stopped her.
And I knew immediately that shewas one of my people.
And I thought I may not looklike I'm one of your people,
because I'm sitting here in thiswheelchair.
Oh.
But I am.

(02:11):
And so it's been a joy to haveher be a part of my recovery.
I took what she was teaching andintegrated it into my own
recovery and it has made such ahuge difference.
And that's why I'm passionateabout bringing her on today.
To be able to share thisinformation with you.
So many of us are taught as weage that there are some things

(02:31):
that just have to come alongwith aging.
That it's normal.
And one of those things,especially for women, is that
it's normal to pee your pants alittle after you have a baby or
that you should just give up onever jumping on the trampoline
again.
And if you're going to liftweights, if you're in CrossFit a
little bit, we'll come out, justwear a pad.
It's fine.
We don't talk about it.
And I have learned that is sodestructive.

(02:54):
And we don't just get thatmessage as women, men get all
kinds of message.
Men get all kinds of messagesabout urinary tract health.
As well, and this isn't justabout the urinary tract or the
pain in the butt that it is tofeel like you're 85 years old
when you're only 32.
What this is about is the healthof your body, the health of

(03:15):
those tissues in your pelvicfloor, the muscles that are
intended to hold up your organsand your bladder.
And to support your core andyour hips and to make it so
blood flow and nerve flow.
Can really flow appropriately.
And when it is not, then we getthose indicators like problems
with urine problems, with stressincontinence problems with hip

(03:38):
musculature.
With trigger points that justwill not go away around our
gluteals our hips withintercourse that is painful or
that we can't feel very well.
And there can just be so muchthat goes into it.
So Dr.
MoMA is my expert that I call onthat I resource.
And that I traveled to attend.
So I'm so happy to bring her toyou a little bit more about her.

(03:59):
She was named one of the leadingphysicians in the world.
By the international associationof healthcare professionals.
And above and beyond theacademic requirements of
becoming a doctor ofchiropractic, which are
rigorous.
She's also completed over athousand continuing education
credit hours in many differentareas.
I was talking to her once andshe said, she's thinking about

(04:20):
just making it wallpaper in heroffice, all the certificates of
completion.
Things like rehabilitation,developmental kinesiology,
pediatrics, pregnancy,nutrition, pain management,
sports injuries, TMJ treatment,disc.
Pain neuroplasticity neurology,neurodynamics visceral
manipulation, and she iscertified to do all kinds of
things by a Prague school ofrehabilitation.

(04:43):
Motion, palpation Institute,active release technique,
Mackenzie, just lots of bignames.
And in addition to that, she'salso an instructor for the
motion palpation Institute andmove mentors where she's
teaching other chiropractors,how to be better chiropractors.
As well as students and she'sthe owner of triangle
chiropractic and rehabilitationcenter in Raleigh, North

(05:03):
Carolina.
And just a pretty bad-ass humanbeing.
So without further ado, I giveyou my conversation with Dr.
Lindsay MoMA.

Track 1 (05:16):
All right.
I am so excited to start thisconversation with you, Dr.
Muma.
It's just fun to talk to you,let alone be taught by you.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_02- (05:26):
I am really glad to be here and
it's also really fun to talk toyou and to see you in such a
different space than where youwere when I first met you, which
is almost Exactly.
two years ago.
'cause it was February of 22when I met you.

Track 1 (05:41):
I am just so touched that you remember that.
Yeah.
The first time I met you, I wasin a wheelchair at Parker and I
at Parker, which is like one ofthe biggest chiropractic
convention in the world.
And I heard you speak and thatwas revelatory for me because in
practice I worked primarily, Imean, I worked with a lot of

(06:02):
different people, but Ispecialized in treating pregnant
patients and pediatrics and youknow, middle-aged women that
also were trying to figure outjust life while they're
exercising and.
And doing so much activity.
What I found though, werepatterns that I would try to fix
that would keep coming back.
And though I specialized in alot of that, I did not know

(06:25):
pelvic floor rehab very much.
And when you started talking, Ijust thought, this is what I
have been

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_ (06:31):
this is the piece.

Track 1 (06:33):
10 years, and let alone the other patients, this is me.
Right?

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2 (06:37):
Yeah,

Track 1 (06:38):
Which, which I'm not saying was what put me in a
wheelchair, but it was one ofthe first things I tried to be
able to do was to work on mypelvic floor.
After hearing you second time Isaw you, I finally was out of
the wheelchair.
We had brought it along, but Iwasn't using it.
I was using a walking stick,which made me much happier.
And then when I flew out to takea course from you, then by the

(07:02):
end of the time with you, Iwasn't even using the walking
stick like all the way home, myown two feet.
Pretty

was, that was one of the coolest you
know, I always tell people I'mnot doing treatment in the
courses because realistically,you know, when you're a patient
of mine and you come in, we doan hour long initial appointment
at my office.
And so I'm getting your wholehealth history, I'm getting all
sorts of information about youremotional, mental as well as

(07:29):
physical health and what'shappened to your body and in
your body and around your body.
And then I put my hands on youand I do a full physical exam
and we are doing neuro testing.
And for me to just meet apatient and like get a quick
recap of like, here's my problemarea, that's not treatment,
that's not what I'm doing.
Right, But you know, I had saidif, if you want to be one of the

(07:51):
demo people, like it is really,really helpful to be able to
show some kind of techniques.
Do you mind talking about this?
Like what, what we did?
So,

Track 1 (07:58):
shares if they help.

Yeah, but we did, we worked on your
epidural scar and it was likemassively impactful to see the
immediate difference.
And I've just, I, it wasprobably 2017 the first time
that I had, like, I had been, Iwas like, oh, okay, there's,
there's some scar tissue thathappens with epidurals that

(08:21):
would, that makes sense to me.
Anytime that we're like enteringthe body with this kind of
beveled edge hollow bore needle,there is going to be some scar
tissue that's developed.
But a physiatrist had sent awoman to me who was 14 months
postpartum and she had whatlooked like main syndrome
actually.
And there's a discussion aboutwhether or not main syndrome is

(08:43):
actually real or not, but it'seffectively referral from the TL
junction into like kind of overthe SI joint and then into the
groin anteriorly.
And so with.

Track 1 (08:55):
referral from what's happening in the upper, lower
back,

Yep.
down into the in into the pelvisand then into the front part of
the pelvis as well.
And so yes, so a,

Track 1 (09:04):
doctors that treat pelvic floor a lot, so I will
just interject.
If you don't know what we're

Thank you.
Thank you.
But so she had this referral andwas sent to him and he's a
really wonderful practitionerand he refers a lot of patients
to me.
He's like, these people don'tneed injections.
They actually need movement, andhere's someone who can help you.
And so he sent her to me and Ijust did a skin on skin
palpation of her TL junctionlike where the rounded part of

(09:31):
your upper back meets the lowerlike the extended part of your
lower back.
And when I had my hand there,she was like, oh, that is the
symptom that I'm getting into mygroin.
And I literally just kind oflike lightly touched it.
It made it worse.
So when I did kind of like a, amore firm palpation just means
to feel with your hands.
And when I did a more firmpalpation of that region where

(09:51):
she had had the epiduralinjection, it immediately caused
the symptoms that she wasgetting.
Over her pelvis and in into thefront.
She was like, oh, that is thepain that I'm getting.
So when I lightly touched it,she like almost jumped off my
table and I was like, this isinteresting.
And I could feel the scar tissuefrom her epidural.
So she, the, the thing is somany women get epidurals for

(10:15):
mismanagement type of reasons,right?
Because we tell women that.
You know, breathing techniquesaren't gonna help you, and the
pain is gonna be too much.
We kind of like get in theirhead ahead of labor.
They arrive in labor.
We, you know, put them on aPitocin drip because they're not
far enough along for us to havereally actually admitted them.

(10:37):
But we don't give women anytools for outside of the
hospital for preparing forlabor.
And then when, once you've putsomeone on Pitocin, it is nearly
impossible to tolerate theintense contractions of Pitocin
without the humanitarian meetingof that with an epidural
because.
A contraction is met with arelease of endorphins.

(10:58):
But if that contraction doesn'thave the relaxation that comes
after a, a contraction, thenthere is no endorphin release.
And those synthetically boostedcontractions are so much more
intense and it like way morethan like, you know, yeah, I had
a natural birth and that likebeing a badge of honor, which
it's not, but when women saythat it's, it's actually like

(11:22):
kind of one upped by the womenwho had Pitocin and no epidural,
because that is like insanelevels of contraction.
What's that?

Track 1 (11:32):
remember learning from Jeannie Om, who is one of the
people responsible for reallybringing pregnancy care to the
forefront of chiropractic, theavailability for chiropractors
to learn more about what itreally is.
But she was talking about how anormal contraction will help
you.
Like when you have a normalcontraction, you are helped by

(11:53):
your own little mini pharmacyinside.
And if you have an abnormalcontraction, you skip all that.
And I remember thinking before Italked to Jenny Gen, I thought
people who delivered at homewithout pain medication were.
A crazy hippies and B like mu,like must not love their kids as

(12:14):
much because they were gonnalike surely get in complicated
problems.
And then as I listen to what thebody can naturally do in
delivery, that is amazing.
And I realize there arecircumstances, I'm not an
advocate that you have todeliver at home and you

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_ (12:31):
Right?
No.

Track 1 (12:32):
medication.
But it is amazing what we arenaturally born with if we will
let it happen.
Right.
Most of the time, not all thetime, but most of the time.
She talked about how America,and just in the last 50, I guess
now it's been 70 years, was whenin Western medicine women
started delivering in hospitalsor having the medications and

(12:54):
she invited us to think aboutthe eons of women before

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_0 (12:58):
Who didn't have pain mitigating
techniques.
Yeah.
They weren't, they literally hadtheir internal pharmacy like you
were saying, and their ownresponse.
So Dr.
Grantley Dickery is actually oneof the men who's kind of
responsible for helping us getback to more natural childbirth
practices because in the era ofTwilight sleep, where they were

(13:19):
literally knocking women out andthey're like extracting babies,
they, Dr.
Grantley Dicked said we need togo back to.
The, the ways that we used to dothis.
He had witnessed women kind oflike in slums who hadn't had any
exposure to much of westernmedicine yet.
And he saw this woman give birthand she just kind of like went

(13:42):
over to the side by herself and,and like kind of squatted down
and gave birth.
And he asked her like, whydidn't you, like, why didn't you
want anything for the pain?
And she was like, was I supposedto feel pain?
Like she didn't, she didn'tknow, she hadn't been
conditioned to think that shewas supposed to be in pain when

(14:02):
she gave birth because she hadwitnessed women giving birth.
And it was like just a thingthat happened.
I mean, we're the only mammalswho are scared of birth.
Like you, a giraffe isn't like,oh, I don't know.
I, my, my due date's coming up,right?
Like, you just, the pregnancyunfolds and when the baby's
ready to come, the baby comes.
Anyway, we've gone off on a, anincredible tangent here,

Track 1 (14:21):
tangent that I was not even planning on, but I,

but the point is that epidurals.

Track 1 (14:26):
there's some important things.
Number

Yes.

Track 1 (14:28):
If people are interested in that topic, there
are such amazing references inbooks, and I don't mean you have
to be a crazy hippie, and Idon't mean anything as bad if
you've had an epidural.
An epidural.
I don't mean any of that.
What I do mean is there areoptions and choices.
I remember my mom saying thatwhen she went to have her first

(14:49):
baby, she came in the emergencyroom and she started screaming
with the pain, and the doctorlooked at her and said, Pam.
What are you doing?
She was like, well, I'm having ababy.
And he's like, you are wastingall of that energy.
I need you to please start goinginside.

(15:09):
And every time that you feelsomething like that, I want you
to move that down instead ofscreaming mindlessly, and I bet
you'll feel better.
Which sounds, sounds careless,but she still talks about it
because she used it everypregnancy.
And she was like, I did feelbetter.
I was scared.
And I had seen and heard thatyou're supposed to scream.
So I did.

(15:29):
I, on the other hand, thought Iwas gonna meditate my way
through and I was gonna hypnobirth this baby out, and it was
not gonna be pain.
It was gonna be pressure.
I had pelvic floor dysfunction.
So getting that baby out was awhole different trick.
And I remember being on thewater.
At home on my hands and knees,literally just sobbing, snot out

(15:50):
from the nose.
Tears like saying they lied.
This really hurts.
This is pain.
This is not pressure.
This is pain.
But then, you know, fulldisclosure, I also, because I
had pelvic floor dysfunction,could not activate my muscles
well.
I tore six places trying to getthat baby

Oh my gosh.

Track 1 (16:09):
The next birth was miserable.
And then I finally startedfinding some people that knew
what they were, go, what theywere doing.
So that scar that I had, thescar tissue that you felt was
not actually from an epidural,'cause I had babies at home.
It actually was from a spinalpuncture.
So I had, when I started to notbe able to move my body and not

(16:33):
be able to speak, and we weretrying to figure out what was
going on, I had a spinalpuncture done and it was.
Done terribly and they tore myspinal cord.
So the reason I'm circling backto that is because you talk
about how injuries along ourspinal cord can create traction
in the scar tissue.
So whether that be an epidural,a lumbar puncture, you know,

(16:57):
injuries in general.
When that scar tissue happens,it can pull up, pull around the
nerves, create tension on thenerves, and just full body
tension that can affecteverything below it just as when
you're paralyzed.

To kind of finish the thought, the,
you had a like an epiduralspinal injection for like type
of scar, which was very helpfulfor demonstrating, okay, so
here's how we would use cupping.
Here's how we would do somemyofascial release, and here's
how we would work on that scartissue.
And so you volunteered for that.
And what we got to witness whileyou were on the table, and I did

(17:34):
some treatment on that, was likeyou physically felt all the way
into your spinal cord, the scartissue that was there.

Track 1 (17:43):
as soon as you touched it, it was full body sweat.
I was terrified, like I was,'cause when he put the the
needle in, I could feel it.
I wasn't numb yet.
So I felt exactly what it feelslike to have a needle be pushed
into your spinal nerves.
And as soon

And, and to need to stay still for
that.
Right.
Which

Track 1 (18:01):
you were.
Kind with me.
'cause you could tell I wasabout to pass out

I'll hold you.

Track 1 (18:08):
But I thought of that, you know we're gonna talk about
what pelvic floor dysfunctionis, but it can come from so many
means.
So let's talk about that becauseif you've had c-section scar,
that can create all kinds oftraction and problems, anything
happening with your spine.
But I was a martial artist and Iwas in multiple car accidents.
I was an athlete.

(18:29):
I had all kinds of pelvic floorcraziness going on.
So let's talk about what pelvicfloor dysfunction is and then we
can talk about how you may havegotten it and then move on into
some things that we can do tohelp in rehab now.
So how would someone know ifthey have problems with their
pelvic floor?
What

Well, you, the first sign is that
someone has told you not toworry about it.
That's the unfortunate partabout pelvic floor dysfunction
is that everybody keeps handwaving it along as if it's not
any sort of big deal.
Because an estimated one in fourwomen has some amount of pelvic
floor dysfunction, and it's alittle bit less for men.
And I think that's because lessactivities happen in a man's

(19:11):
pelvic floor.
And they have less opportunitiesfor pressure leakage.
So the pelvic floor in a womanhas three holes in it and the
pelvic floor, and a man has twoholes in it.
So the urethra of the vagina andthe anus in a woman's pelvic
floor, and then the, excuse me,the urethra and the anus in a
man's pelvic floor, thediaphragm, which above that, and

(19:31):
this is where like kind ofgetting into the epidural, that
region of your.
Spine is where the diaphragmattaches into your spine is
right in the TL junction area,which is where they do an
epidural, which is where you hadyour lumbar spine puncture.
Those where that attaches iscrucial for helping to create
the upper portion of the, kindof like integral part of the

(19:56):
core.
So the diaphragm has threeholes, so it has and it also has
three functions.
The pelvic floor has a few morefunctions because it is involved
in sexual and reproductivefunction as well as posture and
stability.
And in breathing.
So we found from research thatPaul Hodges and SAPs did years
ago that the pelvic floor isactually part of your

(20:19):
respiratory system, which ispretty cool.
And when you have dysfunction ofthe diaphragm, you are going to
automatically have dysfunctionof the pelvic floor.
When you have dysfunction of thepelvic floor, you will also
automatically have dysfunctionof the diaphragm because they
work synergistically.
So the diaphragm sits inside ofthe ribcage, is a dome shaped
muscle.
It has three holes inside of it.
The pelvic floor opposes itbasically within the abdominal

(20:41):
canister when the diaphragmlowers on your inhale.
The pelvic floor also lowerswhen the diaphragm raises the
pelvic floor raisesunfortunately.
Most people only know that thepelvic floor can be tightened in
a Kegel exercise.
And if there's anything wrongwith the pelvic floor, then the
recommendation is to Kegel.

(21:02):
And so the issue with that isthat the dot, the pelvic floor
is a multi-layered sling ofmuscles that goes from the pubic
synthesis like your pubic boneat the front all the way to your
tailbone at the back.
So it, the muscles of thelevator an I group, will attach
into the coys and along the backpart of the pelvis.
That sling of muscles is helpingto hold you upright.

(21:24):
It also helps you to move.
It also controls the blood flowreturning from and going to the
lower extremity, as well aslymphatic drainage.
And it also is having a role inyour tion and your bowel
movements, as well as sexualfunction and like excretion of
OV ovulatory fluid and cervicalfluid.

(21:44):
And childbirth.
So they, there are a millionthings that are happening in it.
And we know one exercise, likeif you hurt your shoulder,
there's like 4,000 exercises youcan do for it.
The pelvic floor is so much moreimportant than the shoulder.
And if you ask any practitioneror any lay person, it's like, oh
yeah, Kegel, right?
Like, are you kidding me?
This is, this is all we can dofor this incredible area of the
body.

Track 1 (22:04):
it's only how we poop, pee.
Have babies enjoy sex, keepourselves upright, move without
being injured and breathe, I

here's what you can do, Kegel,

Track 1 (22:13):
Let's do that one.
And I remember,

lindsay-mumma--dc- (22:15):
embarrassing honestly.

Track 1 (22:17):
Kegel is all I had heard about as well, but you
talked about how Kegel exercisesoften are not helpful.
In fact, could be harmful.
So I was having a really hardtime with my last two
pregnancies.
Now I know why.
But in feeling like my baby wasjust like going to drop out, I
was working actively as achiropractor and I was like, had

(22:39):
the belly bands and theeverything to kind of help hold
it up.
But I remember getting theadvice to do Kegel exercises.
That's what everybody said.
'cause if you do the Kegelexercises, that will be
stronger.
But something felt.
I really wrong when I did it,and so I ended up kind of
intuitively going with what feltgood or did not feel good to my
body.
What felt good was trying toexercise my glutes.

(23:01):
What did not feel good wasKegels.
I had an awesome midwife thatsaid, actually, in this case, I
don't think Kegels are the wayfor you, but I'm not sure what
is the way for you and let'sjust listen to your body.
This was, again, we knowsomething is happening.
Same as in clinical practicewith my patients.
I know I'm not, I know I'm notgetting to this, but I don't
know what it is.

(23:22):
When you talked about Kegels, itwas exactly how I felt, so I
know most of the people that arelistening to this, if they have
wondered how they can help theirpelvic floor would've been told
to do Kegels.
Like at every stop sign,

if that worked, then one in four
women would not have pelvicfloor dysfunction.
There was a case.

Track 1 (23:42):
truthfully.

Yeah, I, it's definitely more than
that because, so a 2018 poll wasdone on women age 50 to 80.
The women who were under 65, itwas like just under half of them
had stress urinary incontinenceover 65.
That number jumped to 51%.
So over half of the womenreported having some amount of
urinary incontinence thatactually disrupted their daily

(24:04):
life.
Like they, when they arrived toa new place, they would have to
make sure that they knew wherethe bathroom was because they
were expecting to have leaking,it changed their wardrobe, et,
et cetera, like it was impactingtheir daily life.
67% of those women did notreport their symptoms to their
doctor.

Track 1 (24:19):
Yeah.

So like in this random poll that
they did, right?
Like, Hey, we'd like to talk toyou about what's going on in
your body.
They answered the question, butwhen it came to actually
reporting this health relatedinformation to their physician,
they didn't.
And I think part of it is gonnabe because they've been
embarrassed.
Part of it is just gonna bebecause they hear that this
happens to other people and theytherefore have attributed common

(24:41):
to mean normal.
But it is not normal to pee yourpants when you have, and the,
the other part of it is that wewe're like embarrassed about
this area and already kind ofdisconnected from it.
And then we attach shame to it.
Like, oh, I'm not supposed topee my pants, but like, I guess
everybody does this.
So it's just one of thosethings, but we're not gonna talk

(25:02):
about it.
and then.

Track 1 (25:04):
now I'm 87 years old.

Yeah, exactly.
Like it's just a, it's acomplete mismatch of what's
actually happening within thebody.
So if what we do is conicallycontract an area that's already
tight, so what that means isshorten and tighten.
So a concentric contraction islike thinking about a typical
bicep curl where you are likebringing a weight from your hand

(25:26):
up toward your shoulder.
And then the centric orlengthening contraction of would
be when you have the load inyour hand and you lower the
weight back down so that yourelbow is fully straightened out.
That ecentric activity of thebicep is actually probably where
most of the magic for pelvicfloor training is because if all

(25:47):
you have is shortening of thepelvic floor, then when the
diaphragm lowers.
It's just gonna run intoresistance.
Well, you still have to breathe.
Your diaphragm lowering isactually how you breathe.
So if you can't breathe bylowering your diaphragm in order
for air to be pulled into yourlungs, then you'll elevate your
shoulders.
So then people are walkingaround wearing their traps as

(26:08):
earrings because their uppershoulders are so tight that
they're just elevated and andtight all the time.
And tight does not mean strong.
So the same thing happening inpeople's traps is happening in
their pelvic floor becausethey're not breathing
appropriately, because they'reholding too much tension in
their pelvic floor.
Or they're holding too muchtension in their pelvic floor
because they're not breathingappropriately.
So it's kind of chicken or theegg situation.

(26:28):
But if we don't breathe andallow the diaphragm to lower,
then our breath has to go upinto our upper chest and we
elevate our shoulders in orderto breathe.
That's completely inappropriate,but that's how most people are
breathing, and they do that 12to 16 times every single minute
of the day.
So they're breathing and doingrepetitions of shoulder shrugs,
making their shoulders tighter,their pelvic floor tighter, and

(26:50):
none of it's working togetherwell.
And then as soon as the sneezecomes along, it's like that
pelvic floor never stood achance.
Of course, you leaked.
You've been holding tension init all day the whole time, and
any additional load is just toomuch.

Track 1 (27:03):
I am gonna ask you more about breathing too, because I
love what you write about inyour book.
So I.
Your book, your pelvic floorsucks, but it doesn't have to,
is a fantastic guide for anybodywondering more about pelvic
floor.
There's exercises in it that areeasy to do and that are, you
walk through with detail.
There's talking about breathing,posture, all kinds of things

(27:24):
that we're gonna get into today.
But I'm gonna go back to a fewthings you talked about.
Number one, you said a tightmuscle does not necessarily mean
a strong muscle, and I thinkthat is imperative for people to
understand.
If you're trapezius muscles,your upper shoulder muscles are
really locked up, that doesn'tnecessarily mean they're strong.
A really tight back does notmean that your back is strong

(27:45):
and ready to go do a whole bunchof athletic

And the other part of that that
people often misconstrue istight abs being strong.
If you have tight abs, if thatmeans that your core is strong,
that actually means your core isdysfunctional.
You need to be able to haverelaxation in your abdomen in
order to be functional.
And the one example that Ialways give because he is pretty
is the soccer player, ChristianaRonaldo, he is just a gorgeous
person.

(28:08):
And when he is on the cover oflike GQ Magazine or whatever,
he's got like, you know, a 15pack because he has like abs for
days.
But if you see a still shot ofhim right before he kicks a
soccer ball, he has thisbeautiful expansion of his
abdominal canister.
And so what we can learn fromthat is that in actual function

(28:29):
we need to see expansion of theabdomen and not that tightened
six pack.
So when he poses for a magazine,because he's pretty, and people
like to look at him, he'sdefinitely going to have short
tight abs.
But when he actually goes toboot a soccer ball, you know,
yards down the field, he hasrelaxation with eccentric
activation of his abdomen.

(28:49):
And that's the part thateverybody's missing because most
people are trying to cue.
Abdominal stability by drawingthe abdomen in.
And it's completely wrong.
Like I don't have enough hubristo think that like the way that
Lindsay Muma does things is thebest way to do everything.
I learn new things every day.
I'm like, oh, I was doing thatwrong.
Definitely needed to change thatup.
But I think the way that the DNSmodel, so DNS is dynamic

(29:14):
neuromuscular stabilization, andthat's where all of the rehab
information that I preach aboutall of the time has come from.
I finished my certification, soI'm a officially a DNS
practitioner and the way thatthe DNS model, thank you.
The way that the DNS modelportrays core function is the
right way, honestly.
And the reason why I feel soconfident in that is because

(29:36):
it's not new tricks.
So your baby is born.
Peeing their pants and with adiastasis of their rectus abdom
muscle bellies.
Babies are born with anon-functioning pelvic floor and
a separation of their abmuscles.
So what do you see in thepostpartum time period?
Non-functioning, pelvic floorseparation of the abdominal wall
muscles.

(29:57):
So what do we do for babies inorder for them to establish core
function and to be able to learnhow to control their bladder
intentionally?
Do we teach them to Kegel or tosuck their belly button to their
spine?
No, we sure do not.
And what's really mind blowingto me, I share this in my book
and it was from a mentor of mindfrom Prague, who's one of the
DNS instructors, MartinaJessica.

(30:18):
And she shared in a course thatI took in like 2018 and my
brain, like I turned into thatemoji with the brain explosion.
I was like, oh my gosh.
When she said that kids willpotty train around the same time
that they learn to jump.
So this differs for kids?

(30:39):
Yes.
Because, so kids will, will jumpbetween two and three, which is
when they potty train.
Right?
And so you'll, the, the effortof the pelvic floor and the
control of the pelvic floor isactually what's allowing them
the ability to leave the ground,like with confidence to be able
to jump and land.
And so they potty trained aroundthat time because that is when

(31:01):
they have full cognitive controlof their pelvic floor.
Now you could go down the rabbithole and like argue, elimination
communication could happencertainly way earlier than that.
Which it can.
But the, for like a traditionalpotty training where like we
have kids in diapers and thenwe're like talking with them
about their cognition of howthey perceive their bladder
being full and then needing togo to the bathroom.

(31:23):
That happens when they learn tojump.
And I, when I learned that, Iwas like, that is so brilliant
and it makes so much sense.
And we don't teach kids.
Okay, well Kegel, that way youcan jump.
But that's what we tell womenwho are like, oh, well, I, I
leak urine when I run, jump,laugh, cough, or sneeze.
So we're like, okay, well pullyour pelvic floor up to your
eyeballs and see what happens.

(31:43):
Mm-Hmm.
What a terrible idea.

Track 1 (31:46):
So two things.
Number one, I sing

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp (31:49):
Mm-Hmm.

Track 1 (31:49):
a choir that is a amazing choir and they just
pretty much let me come'causeI'm nice.
There's a woman that I love whois a fantastic singer.
She's been on this podcastbefore, but she was teaching me
a voice lesson.
It was the first voice lessonI've ever had from her.
And she was trying to explain tome how to engage the muscles

(32:10):
differently because I thoughtsinging comes from your
respiratory diaphragm.
So I was holding tension in myrespiratory diaphragm and trying
to like push out to get thevoice.
She was trying to explain to mehow to do it with my lower
muscles.
And I finally stopped and lookedat her and I'm like, are you
trying to tell me to push out onmy pelvic floor?
And she's like, yes.
I'm like, oh gosh.
We just talk pelvic

Just, just use, use the vernacular
that I'm used to.

Track 1 (32:34):
She said that she found the real power and freedom in
her voice when she was doing a,a, a bit with a choir where she
had to run down the aisle andjump on the stage.
And as she jumped, then she'ssupposed to hit this loud high
note and she said, I realizedthe jumping helped the sound

(32:54):
come out.
And then I just found the lowerpart of my abdomen where I could
push out.
So what you're talking aboutwith the pretty, pretty soccer
player is the same as voice, isthe same as all of us.
We are often taught that to havea pelvic, better pelvic floor
and a better core, you need tosuck in and pull up.
So, I mean, for years I was toldand not just, it wasn't from

(33:15):
Instagram then it was fromliteral college classes or
graduate school classes thatwere supposed to suck in.
I remember hearing to do aKegel, I should pretend that I
have, that I'm drawing a pencilinto my vagina, which

Yes.
What a really good

Track 1 (33:31):
fun thing to do then, or a blueberry was like, oh, if
you don't want something sharp,just gently cradle a blueberry
up and gently cradle it down 10times at every stop sign.
And that did nothing for me.
But I remember also like wantingto suck in and tuck in, but what
that makes is something that istight all the time, but not

(33:52):
strong and

tight.
Not

Track 1 (33:53):
back to what you said, to kind of like, teach it and
resell it in.
If we are holding things tightall the time, that cause
problems with our breathings,with our breathing.
They cause problem with ourposture and they can make us
weaker.
In general.
It makes it so our diaphragmdoesn't work and it makes it so
our muscles are so stressed thatit puts more pressure on it.
So when you say stressincontinence, if people don't

(34:14):
know what that means,incontinence means you are not
holding your pee in.
And there are times when yourbody is naturally more stressed,
like when you're pregnant.
I remember my first pregnancy,we moved back to an area where I
had a lot of allergies and wewere getting the old leaves and
this other plant that I'mallergic to out of the little

(34:34):
like window sills and I waspregnant and I kept sneezing and
every sneeze like 10 times aday.
My husband still laughs'cause hewould hear me sneeze and then be
like, shit over.
No.
'cause I'd have to go in andchange my underwear and like 10
times a day.
So.
That is more stress from thebaby sitting more on the bladder

(34:57):
and also my pelvic floormuscles.
You talk about them being asling, so I picture them as like
a series of hammocks that areholding up everything in your
body

Yep.
And if you have tension in themand then you add the weight of a
baby, then That's that's toomuch tension for your pelvic
floor to withstand It iscompletely possible to go
through pregnancy with zerourinary leakage a hundred
percent possible.
I know, because I did it.

Track 1 (35:23):
that's you, you didn't do it and then you did it,

No, I did it.
And so, so both of mypregnancies, I had no urinary
incontinence.
After my second, so my, mysecond pregnancy, I had an
increase in urinary urgency.
I.
And later discovered that I hadactually developed bladder
spasms.
And so some of that actually wasmitigated when we cleaned up

(35:46):
some of the dirty electricity inour house.
And did some EMF mitigationtechniques.
Which I mean, that's just like awhole separate rabbit hole,
right?
But hole, but it,

Track 1 (35:55):
say that for another day,

we'll save that for another topic.
But and then I also just had tolike completely change.
So I had, after my second sonwas born, then I actually had
some urge incontinence.
I didn't have any stress urinaryincontinence.
I could jump, I could run, Icould laugh, I could sneeze and
I wouldn't have any urinaryleakage, but I had urge
incontinence.
And so what that means is thatwhen I had to go to the

(36:18):
bathroom, I didn't, like, I justgot the message that I needed to
go to the bathroom right now andwould have leakage that that
happened.
And so that actually.

Track 1 (36:27):
if I was running in from the garage, and I'm like,
ha ha ha.
Like to the back.

I have to go, to the

Track 1 (36:32):
go, mom.
Go, go.
That's urge

for you.
Yes.
That's urge incontinence.
And so I, I also had twoautoimmune conditions that were
diagnosed after my second wasborn which are subsequently no
longer a diagnoses for mebecause healing is always
possible.
But I, I, I went through a wholejourney myself of having pelvic
floor dysfunction and realizingwhat things worked and what

(36:58):
things didn't work.
And so it is significantly lesscommon to have urge incontinence
on its own.
It's way more common to havestress urinary incontinence,
which you increase stress on thebladder and therefore you have
leakage of, of urine regardlessof like how full the bladder is
or isn't.
Urge incontinence is different.
So I actually had I.

(37:18):
I had sclerotherapy ofhemorrhoids during my second
pregnancy.
So they did a sclerosingtechnique for hemorrhoid that I
had, that had thrombosis, whichis a version of pelvic floor
dysfunction in my secondpregnancy.

Track 1 (37:33):
poofed out

Yes.
and was not able to put it backin.
So I had sclerotherapy and itdid nerve damage to my pelvic
floor.
And so as a result of that, itwas a years long process of
returning normal function, but Iwas absolutely unwilling to
accept that this was just my lotin life that like, okay, well I
had two babies.
I went through two pregnancieswithout any incontinence.

(37:55):
So why on earth would I thenaccept that after a beautiful
home birth where I had notearing and no, no stitches
needed in my perineum that I, I,well, I had like a scrape on my
perineum, but it wasn't anythingthat actually required any
intervention and I had goodhealing and I had no no overt
symptoms.
Why would I accept that?

(38:16):
I just am not able to wait untilI have to go to the bathroom to
actually go to the bathroom.
Like, it, it, it didn't makesense to me and I was not
willing to accept that.
And I think that like that levelof tenacity is sometimes needed
because so many women, so Itypically talk about women and I
started, you know, by sayingthat women have more things that
are happening in their pelvicfloor, right?

(38:37):
Like men are not, the biggestthing they ever push out is a
kidney stone.
Right?
But, but we also have more holesthan males do.
So there's more opportunity forthere to be less appropriate
pressure management of theintraabdominal pressure within
the abdominal cavity.
But men also do have.

Track 1 (38:55):
Absolutely.

lindsay-mumma--dc- (38:56):
Incontinence that happens.
So specifically benign prostatichypertrophy.
The, the, the saying is thatlike you, you're, if you live
long enough, every man is gonnaget that like that at some point
the prostate just enlarges.
I don't really believe thatbecause I don't think that our
bodies are designed todysfunction, I believe firmly
and have experienced personallythat our bodies are designed to

(39:16):
function and they're alwaystrying to achieve that state of
homeostasis.
Again, they're always trying toget to our normal homeostasis
rather than continue to expressdysfunction when they're
expressing dysfunction.
It's for a purpose.
So the prostate is increasing insize because we don't have
enough nutrient into input goinginto the system, et cetera.

(39:37):
And there's not enough movementinto the pelvic cavity in order
to create blood flow.
And men have pelvic floordysfunction, but they don't have
over it.
Symptoms of its weren't doinganything about it.

Track 1 (39:46):
Of the helpers for benign prosthetic hypertrophy is
helping with the lymph flow,

yes, yes.

Track 1 (39:51):
I know there is different forms of massage to do
to do all that if it is gettingbacked up in flow of blood or
inflow of lymphatic.
And that again, is a problemwith movement.
So our lymphatic system is onlymoved when muscles move against
it or when, you know, when it'sthat deep.
And if the pelvic floor is notmoving very well, then things

(40:13):
are not gonna be moving.
This is probably a really goodtime to pause and say, I was
going to initially say, what arethe symptoms of pelvic floor?
We're sort of getting throughthat, but it would be like
stress incontinence, urgeincontinence in also inability
to hold your bowels.
I've definitely met some

Yeah.
Vow incontinence is another one.

Track 1 (40:29):
have had that symptoms and, and that is not a fun one.
Hemorrhoids

lindsay-mumma--dc-- (40:33):
Hemorrhoids are another one.
And then pelvic organ prolapseis the other big one.

Track 1 (40:37):
Yes.
And as a chiropractor, I willsay a big symptom I look for is
if we are adjusting and it's notholding or if the back seems to
lack some stability.
If someone is really, has itlike a sway back or has their
butt poking out a lot, or isalways tucked in, I figure
there's something going on withthe

So in the DNS model, when the, the
back is super arch like that, werefer to that as an open scissor
position because if you thinkabout a pair of scissors that's
open, the rib cage is flared upand the pelvis is kind of angled
downward when now we don't havethe stacking of the rib cage on
top of the pelvis.
We don't have the stacking ofthe diaphragm on top of the
pelvic floor, and so they cannotwork synchronistically because

(41:14):
they're no longer opposing eachother.
So that is a mismanagement ofthat pressurized system.
We want the core to actually belike a can of spin drift or
LaCroix.
I don't wanna talk about soda,but

Track 1 (41:27):
just gonna say that

Yep.

Track 1 (41:29):
this is how I explain the core to people.
When people say core.
Often they think we are talkingabout the pretty, pretty muscles
in the front, and those actuallyin my mind, are some of the
least

The least important.
Yep.
I am team no sit ups for lifeuntil I learn otherwise.
But that's what, like when we,when we look back at how
children develop, they don't dosit ups.
They roll to their side in orderto get up.
And they're so much faster indoing that.
It's, it's an effective humanmovement to roll to your side in
order to facilitate getting up.
Whereas if you do a sit up,you're literally stuck there,
right?

(41:58):
Like you sit up and then youdon't, like, there's, there's
nowhere else for you to gounless you've used MO momentum
to get there.
Like doing a sit is a dead endmovement.
You don't have anywhere to gofrom there.
So it doesn't make sense to dothat because it's not a
translatable human movement.
And that's what, like, that'swhy I really do think that the
DNS model of the way that we arelooking at the core and the way

(42:20):
that we address function fromthe synergy of the diaphragm on
top of the pelvic floor andtheir, and the ability to
eccentrically activate theabdominal wall.
Rather than simply concentric.
So that's that lengtheningactivation of the abdominal
wall.
That's why I think that this isthe best model.
Yep.
And so when we talk about theoutward movement of, of the

(42:42):
abdominal wall, it's not likefull what's called a el Salva,
right?
We're like, you're likestraining and bearing down and
pushing everything into thepelvic floor because I, we don't
want patients doing that either.
What we want is for them to beable to have outward stability.
So one of the exercises that Idescribe in my book is called
the Partner Shove.
And what I, I, I love doing thisexercise with patients because I

(43:03):
tell'em, I'm like, okay, I wantyou to stabilize like how any
coach you've ever had has toldyou, or even how like some of
your doctors have told you, orhow your yoga instructor,
specifically your Pilatesinstructor typically,'cause they
often talk about drawing in theabdomen.
I want you to stabilize like youthink you're supposed to.
And then I lean into them just alittle bit and they fall right
over.
Like, I'm not mean enough to beshoving people on the ground or

(43:25):
anything, but like, they just,boop.
Tip, right?
I could because it's so easy,because they're so unstable and
what they think is that theyjust brace themselves for
impact.
And what they did was actuallydestabilize their internal
pressure system that isintentional and ready for them
to respond to an external force.
So if I say to them, okay, youfelt that I barely pushed you,

(43:48):
but you just fell over like acomplete pushover here.
Now what I want you to do is Iwant you to think, don't let her
push me over.
Now when I lean into you, whatyour abdomen does is actually
expand.
I want you to put your hand onyour side now and feel, do you
feel how your, you, you cameoutward with your abdomen
instead of drawing in and now Ican't push you over.

(44:10):
And if I can, it's likesignificantly harder.
I have to put a lot more forceinto it in order to be able to
like actually get them to move.
I.
They're so much more stable whenwe use, not the the cues that
we've been taught, but the onesthat we already have available
inside of us.
And it's so much more aboutmanaging the pressure between
the diaphragm and the pelvicfloor and then getting ecentric

(44:33):
activity of the abdominal wall,including all the way into the
back and of the pelvic floor.
That ability to load issignificantly more beneficial
and it uses so much less energythan having tension in all of
the muscles, which just, again,tension and tightness does not
mean strength.
It doesn't give you stability,it just gives you more

(44:54):
tightness.
And then once you havepersistent tightness, then you
start to develop trigger points,and then those become painful
and it's like a slew of thingsthat happen because we're trying
to teach human movement.
And we're doing a terrible jobof it.
It's the same thing.
If you teach your kids to walk,you will screw up how they're
developing.
If you sit your kid before yourkid can sit, you disrupt their

(45:16):
ability to get themselves to aseated position and, and create
that pattern.
So if you're sitting kids, thatkid is more likely to think that
they're supposed to do a sit up.

Track 1 (45:26):
Yep.

But if you never sit a kid, they'll
roll over to their side in orderto get up because they know that
that's an appropriate movementpattern.
And when I say no, it's not likesomething cognitively that they
know.
It's, it's like deep withintheir innate programming of how
you act, like your blueprint forhow you arrive in the world.
You know how to move, you knowhow to roll over, you know how
to pick your head up when you goonto your belly, you know how to

(45:48):
actually generate movement.
And it all comes fromstabilizing the diaphragm first.

Track 1 (45:55):
So when I started to get into a lot of this, what it
reminded me of was actuallyMarsh martial Arts.
So I remember an instructor ofmine, I was, when I first
started saying, I don't wanna bejust one of these people, like
in pajama looking things, sayingAya, hiya.
Like, why do we even say that Iwas snotty, really is basically

(46:15):
it.
And he said, well, I can showyou immediately why we say that.
I want you to throw a punch.
I want you to like suck in andsay the word puppy and try to
punch.
And I sucked in and I tried tosay the word puppy, please try
this if you're listening.
It's awful.
It feels really.
Really weak.
And he said, okay, and I wantyou to push out and I want you

(46:38):
to say the word ha.
Like how you have to, when you,you are naturally using your
diaphragm and your pelvic flooragain in Jiujitsu, like later on
in life when I started studyingjiujitsu, when you're doing some
of those moves, you, you moveyour hips and they call it
shrimping.
You kind of like switch to theside to get out from underneath
someone.

(46:58):
You are not holding your breathin and doing a, a forward bend.
You're not doing that.
You're going to the side.
You're using all your energy,you can.
And that's our natural instinct.
So when we start to do morefunctional movements or primal
movements or just think, okay,how can I get out of this?
How can I move like that?
That's how our bodies want tomove.
So where I'm gonna move us isthis a few things to know of, we

(47:21):
talked a little bit aboutbreathing and now you're
bringing us to the diaphragm.
I am geeking out about thediaphragm lately I talked to Dr
to show on my, I know, right

I love Tom.
He is legitimately one of thenicest humans that's on the
entire planet.
He is so, he is so

Track 1 (47:36):
And the most intelligent and his recall is
insane.

stuff out so quickly.
But the, so he and I talkedabout this.
He was like, you know what it'slike now that you've written a
book, the, the number of timesthat I have read the studies
that are in my book.
I mean, you know, you've read mybook and like you've revisited
some things.
Right?
Do you know how many times Irevisited those things?
Like I read and reread, so Tomhas written textbooks.
He wrote Foot Orthoses.

(48:01):
He did a second edition of thatand Human Look Emotion.
And those are both fantasticbooks for providers.
But then he also wrote InjuryFree Running, which then there's
a bunch of studies in that andthat's good for lay people and
the number of articles that he'swritten and like the, the, the
things that he puts out when youread something and then you
reread it and then you edit itand then you get it back from
your other editor and you readover it again.

(48:21):
Like you basically just memorizethese things from repetition.
And he's done that so many timesand he is been in practice for
such a long time.
He is been doing this for such along time.
His recall is amazing.
He's like, yeah, in this studyon this date.
Like he knows the authors, heknows the date, he knows what
journal it was in.
It's amazing.

Track 1 (48:39):
the textbooks, he's like, current, he's in it

Oh no, absolutely.
Yeah.

Track 1 (48:43):
But he was talking about diaphragm strength in
relation to low back.
And so I started looking at oneof the devices that he suggested
called The Breather that doesresistance exercise for the
diaphragm.
And I love it.
So when you taught me about thecore being a soda can, the
bottom, like the pelvic floor,the top is the diaphragm and
both are really important.

(49:04):
And then the 360 of the walls ofthe can are, you know, the, the
other muscles that we use, notjust that pretty, pretty strip
in the middle.
So I was like, okay, I'mlearning how to do the side, the
back, the bottom.
But I did not know how toexercise my diaphragm very well

The resistance of that is very
helpful.
Yeah.

Track 1 (49:27):
yes.
So I, as I've started usingthat, I have really, really
loved it.
I actually became an affiliate,so, so hopefully by the time
this episode releases, peoplewill have

have a link that you

Track 1 (49:39):
it.

share.
My only caveat with that is thatthat is the only time that you
mouth breathe

Track 1 (49:45):
Mm.

lindsay-mumma--dc--dns (49:46):
because, and like there's, we just don't
have a great way of resistingnasal breathing at this point.
Right.
But.
It's so imperative that we arebreathing through our nose and
that we're getting moisture onthe air as opposed to just like
dry inhaling into the mouth.
And it improves the function ofyour entire or facial system as

(50:06):
well as respiration, as well aspostural stabilization.
Because when you breathe inthrough your nose, that actually
gives you better activation ofyour diaphragm and you're better
able to stabilize.
So one of the unfortunately, butalso, I dunno, I think it's just
like the wounded healerarchetype shows up for me quite
a bit.
I, I know her.
I I had my seventh concussion in2021 and I, I 10 outta 10.

(50:31):
Don't recommend it.
You should stick with zeroconcussions and if you're gonna
have one, don't have anotherone.
But it was a very long recoverywith that.
Yeah, it's just to just stayaway from concussions.
But I as I was able to finallystart returning to activity, one
of the ways that I was, that Iintentionally helped my brain
and then also just chose to takeit as an opportunity that I

(50:53):
could retrain, I exclusivelynasal breathe when I'm working
out and it is a game changer.
I am significantly less windedand I have such an easier time
stabilizing and being able togenerate strength with having my
mouth closed.
Now I look like a heinous bitchwhen I'm working out.

(51:14):
Because especially I.
I went to visit a girlfriend andshe she works out at a CrossFit
gym.
And so of course it was a heroworkout, so it's like a 45
minute burner.
I was like, oh my God.
And I was like, I had my mouthshut the whole time because I,
I'm not gonna do a 45 minuteworkout and breathe through my
mouth, right.
So I I did this heck of aCrossFit workout and everybody's

(51:35):
like, great job.
You're doing great.
And I was like,

Track 1 (51:38):
Mm-Hmm.

and like trying to open my, my Nair
more.
And I'm like,

Track 1 (51:43):
Yeah.
Everybody listening.
Just try that.
Try breathing really hard.

really hard.
but Only through your nose.
But It I mean, that's actuallylike another kind of way that
you can do a little bit ofresistance on the diaphragm.
It's just, it's not as effectiveas when you literally close off
like the mouthpiece that letsyou intentionally inhale against
it.
But I, like, as I was increasingmy activity, I couldn't go too

(52:06):
far, too fast, too hard becauseit would create symptoms in my
head.
And so I needed to intentionallykeep myself slower.
But through the course of doingthat, over a prolonged period of
time, I was able to build up somuch strength and I was just
able to be significantly morestable.
And I, I've been practicing thistype of breathing and movement

(52:28):
since I took my first DNS classin 2008 or 2009.
So it's, it's been a minute thatI've been practicing like this,
but I was, when I switched toexclusively nasal breathing, I.
During exercise.
That made a huge jump in myrecovery.
And then also in just my overallstrength and stability.
So that's my caveat on The

Track 1 (52:49):
on the breather.
Yep.
Yep.
I figured Doing like, so doingit naturally with your nose.

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp (52:55):
Mm-Hmm.

Track 1 (52:55):
And then a few sessions a

Add a bit of resistance With the
Yeah.
With the devices.
Helpful for sure.

Track 1 (53:01):
If readers want more of that, if you haven't read James
Nestor's book on breath, whichI'm sure you

lindsay-mumma--dc--dn (53:05):
fabulous.
Yeah.

Track 1 (53:06):
that's, that's the reference point to go to.
You're taking it exactly where Iwas, which is talking about
breathing.
So I know we breathe wrong forall kinds of reasons, posture,
stress, injury.
But what is fantastic aboutexercising your diaphragm or
focusing on your breathing inthat way, it can affect your
life in so many

Yeah.

Track 1 (53:24):
a daughter who is just, I, she is a powerhouse and one
of the things that she reallylikes to do is she's part of
like a junior military programcalled the Civil Air Patrol, and
she as a female, so she startedwhen she was 14, and she's an
observer and she noticed thatmost of the girls could not

(53:48):
project their voice.
I mean, they had wonderfulthings to say but couldn't
compete with.
Doing commands and,

that boisterous command.
Yeah.

Track 1 (53:59):
So she figured out how to breathe with her diaphragm
and how to do control, how tolike, get her voice to project
with her diaphragm.
And she's using her pelvicfloor.
She doesn't know it, but theycall it diaphragm there.
And it has been fascinating tosee the doors that have opened
for her.
It means I have to like cringewhen she's trying to call for

(54:19):
someone and I'm really close toher'cause Wow.
It's really loud.

Wow, you're really good at that

Track 1 (54:25):
Yeah.
I'm like, oh, I'm encouragingyou to be even more effective at
command.
But, but there's that, there'ssinging, there's breath, and
there is a stress response.
So you have a stress loweringresponse or a stress increase
response if our

Yes.
well.
and so if you're doing thebreathing up into your
shoulders, like we were talkingabout the inappropriate
breathing pattern where when youbreathe, your chest raises
towards your head.
So if you're sitting up, that'syour chest going up toward the
ceiling.
If you're laying down.
Your chest actually shouldexpand forward to backward.
You should have expansion frontto back as well as side to side,
as well as expansion into yourabdomen.

(55:02):
When you inhale, when youexhale, a lot of people will
kind of cue that closing in ofthe abdomen.
Like think about bringing yourpelvic bones closer together or
draw your abdomen into yourspine or any nonsense
recommendations.
They're all wrong because whatwe should do is relax on exhale,
with the exception of if we areactually trying to intentionally
brace and then we expand andallow for exhalation to happen,

(55:25):
but we maintain the expansion byholding the muscles in an
eccentric contraction, not aconcentric contraction.
Anyway, I digress.
The point is that if we arebreathing in that way where we
have our chest rising 12 to 16times a minute, that is a stress
breath.
That is the breath that peopledo when they're freaking out,

(55:45):
right?
What is the first thing?
That everybody knows to do.
When you're super freaked outabout something, it's like,
okay, take a breath and calmdown.

Track 1 (55:53):
Yes.

even, even people who don't know
anything about breathingmechanics or, you know, have
never heard of the polyvagaltheory, which most people
haven't Dr.
Steven Porges.
It's, it's a, an absolutebragging right of mind that Dr.
Porges and I have exchangedemails.

Track 1 (56:07):
That is a bragging

know he and his wife.
So

Track 1 (56:11):
in my mind for Dr.
Bo work.

so the polyvagal theory is the, the
theory that rather than thisrest, digest, fight or flight
kind of dichotomy of the nervoussystem, that the autonomic
nervous system is actually splitinto multiple layers based upon,
so poly as in multiple vagal asin your 10th cranial nerve.
So the vagus nerve and it'sbased.

Track 1 (56:35):
for rest and digest and

Yes, but this is dependent upon how
safe you feel in yourenvironment.
So your perception of safety iscrucial.
If you and I are walking throughthe blizzardy streets of your
town as opposed to the sunny,warm place where I live right
now.
But if we're like in a backalley and we're like right down

(56:58):
the street from your practiceand you've walked down there a
million times and we're walkingtogether, it's dark.
It's it's an unfamiliar place tome and we hear a like noise of
some sort.
I have a completely differentexperience than you in that
scenario because you feel safe.
In that environment, becauseyou've been there a million
times, it's familiar to me.

(57:18):
To you, you've heard thatclanging.
You know that that's like a catjumping off a trashcan or
whatever.
Whereas I don't know what'shappening.
I'm in an unfamiliar place.
My autonomic nervous system isgoing, even though we're in the
same scenario, I don't feel safein that scenario.
You feel safe.
My autonomic nervous system isgoing to have a completely
different response.
So typical response of the fightor flight and rest and digest.

(57:42):
Most people can kind of wraptheir heads around like, okay,
if I'm calm and relaxed, theneverything is fine.
But you also have calm, like a,a freeze response.
So some some people have heardfight, flight or freeze instead
of just fight or flight.
The, that is where the threat oflike the threat to your life is

(58:02):
so high that you actuallyimmobilize.
So.
Immobilization is the base levelof our autonomic nervous system.
The next level would bemobilization.
The next topper, the toppertier.
That's a real word, Lindsay.
Top tier would be socialization.
So because, so as socialcreatures, the, our first line

(58:25):
of a defense is, we're gonna tryand talk about this, right?
Our next line of defense is, I'mgonna fight you or run away from
you.
And our third line of defense isI'm an feign death.
And, and, and just pretend likeI'm already dead so that you
don't kill me.
Right?
So those layers on the, that's,that's what's happening in our
unsafe.
So if we perceive threat, that'swhat we're gonna do.

(58:46):
So in conversation theperception of threat, we might
actually use more slanderouscommunication or manipulation
and like threatening language.
Whereas when we perceive safety,our first line of interaction is
just social engagement andconversation and collaboration.
And then our active response,the mobilization.

(59:09):
That's where we work out.
That's a stress on your system,right?
That your autonomic nervoussystem is upregulated there and
you're working out the sameplace that a active labor
happens.
That's also where you have sex.
When you get to theimmobilization state that's rest
and digest completely, that'sactually like you in a totally
relaxed downregulated state.
But you can only be there ifyou're in a perception of

(59:30):
safety, so you could like ablissful orgasm, and you're like
completely immobilized.
That's totally different thanyou being completely immobilized
due to fear.

Track 1 (59:39):
Yeah.

Your autonomic nervous system, though
functions in this hierarchy, andDr.
Porges work has kind of exposedus to that.
So the, the tools that areavailable to us to be able to
downregulate our autonomicnervous system are breath,
sound, and movement, and we havethose available to us almost all
of the time.
So if you're super upregulated,you're taking those short,
shallow, mouth breathing, chestbreathing type of breaths.

(01:00:04):
If you're not actually inthreat, you are telling your
brain.
That you are.
So you're mixing up the signals,letting your brain know, yeah,
we're not actually safe here.
When what you're experiencing isjust like your normal breathing
pattern to be like that, thenyou're never able to fully
downregulate, rest and digest,have that immobilization in the

(01:00:25):
full relaxation of your nervoussystem as well as your physical
body because you are tellingyour brain, we need to
upregulate because we'rebreathing like this, so we must
have a threat.
There's probably a tigersomewhere hidden and our nervous
system is like on high alert.
So that's what Dr.
Porges were kind of like broughtabout the idea that it's not
just rest and digest, fight orflight, but that we actually
have layers of this.

(01:00:46):
And so movement like gettinginto child's pose or doing legs
up the wall, those are downregulatory positions, which I
believe is probably why we seein like religions and ancient
cultures kneeling.
And getting into like aprayerful pose that's actually
down regulatory for your nervoussystem.
So what better, better way tolike connect to divinity than to

(01:01:06):
actually like quiet your ownself, right?
And your the other, other formsof, of movement would be like
gentle stretching or like flowlike movements.
Those are also helpful fordownregulating because you're
like gracefully moving andallowing your nervous system to
feel that you're calm.

(01:01:27):
And then sound humming, singingthose types of things, you don't
do those if there's a predator,right?
If you do a high pitch like, haha ha, well that's tightening of
your vocal cords, tightening ofyour pelvic floor and
upregulation of your nervoussystem.
If you do a, like long, deep,low sound.
That's, yeah, I'm totally safehere.
I'm fine, I'm cool, calm,collected, and your autonomic

(01:01:49):
nervous system can respond tothat.
So then your breath is easier toget out of your chest because
you're downregulated.
You're actually like able to bein the present moment instead of
hyped up and worried aboutwhat's coming next.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talkon the polyvagal theory.

Track 1 (01:02:04):
I'm in, I'm so in, I actually did a TED Talk and part
of what I was talking about wasthe hierarchy relationship.
And then exercise and thennutrition movement and

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_02- (01:02:14):
I love it.

Track 1 (01:02:15):
The first time that I learned the lesson of movement
and breath was actually outsideof any sort of cerebral thing.
It was in a very primal thing,which I, I never get more primal
than childbirth.

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp (01:02:27):
Mm-Hmm.

Track 1 (01:02:28):
Ima gaskin.
I was reading one of her booksthat talked about ways that we
can help ourselves get into astate of birthing where we can
fill what our body needs to do.
She asked me to think she, well,she asked her readers but me, I
was a

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2 (01:02:42):
Yeah, she was talking to you.
I, ina and I have had someconversations.

Track 1 (01:02:47):
so, she had me.
Ima imagine a time when I hearda sound that made me feel safe
and my father has passed awaynow and had passed away when I
delivered.
But I remembered his voice,which was like this, like when
I'm a little girl and I'mleaning in on his chest and it
has that like vibration sort oftone that low hum.
So I thought, okay, I'm gonnahum when contractions start.

(01:03:10):
So when a contraction wouldstart, I would hum and I would
relax my belly and my pelvicfloor as she was describing it,
it was a baby has a hard timecoming out through something
that is very tight, right?
So I was relaxing my pelvicfloor and I was humming.
And what was funny is the firsttime that I did that in, it was

(01:03:31):
my third pregnancy in deliveryand my husband was right behind
me.
And when those constructionsstarted to get really intense
and my humming was not enough, Ileaned back into him and I was
like, I need you to hum.
And

I need you to

Track 1 (01:03:43):
I'm like, yeah, low, low hum low right now.
He's like in front of everybody.
I'm like, no.
So funny.

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_ (01:03:51):
That's what, so we had, we did like low
and open tones, my husband and Itogether, and he would like, as
things were getting more intensein, in labor, I, my, my vocal
cords were like getting a littlehigher and he'd be like,

Track 1 (01:04:04):
Ooh.
So in that primal place, Ilearned though, and the
breathing exercise that youactually started with.
So I, I began to learn how to dopelvic floor therapy through

mm-hmm.

Track 1 (01:04:16):
And one of the exercises in your book, which I
was gonna have you describe, butwe're running outta time, so
please get Lindsay's Dr.
Lindsay's book and read this.
But you have people start withbreath first, and we're talking
even high level athletes,runners, you have them, if they
have pelvic floor dysfunction,stop running because that is a
single leg exercise essentially.

(01:04:37):
And if you don't have a, stilla, if you don't have a stable
pelvic floor running, single legsquatting, doing all that stuff
is actually screwing you upmore.
You have to get intocompensation patterns.
You take everybody.
Away from their compensationpatterns for a minute and go
into the breath.
And when I started doing breath,the way that you talk about

(01:04:59):
bringing it all the way down tomy pelvic floor, and that is
breath, movement and sound,because I can hear my breath.
It is moving and I'm payingattention to what is happening
low in my pelvis.
You don't do that if you feelunder threat.
And, and so it's like a, a bodytrick.
What's interesting to me is thecom is the communication we have

(01:05:20):
from our bodies to our brainsand our brains to our bodies
about our emotional state.
If you have a really tight trapsall the time, and we know what
that feels like when we're superstressed, I mean, you can get
that from posture,

Mm-Hmm.

Track 1 (01:05:31):
from stress, from habit, from tech, from all kinds
of stuff.
But if you are signaling thateven if there's nothing on your
mind, you will feel morestressed or again, to remember
what you've already stated.
If your pelvic floor is tight,which it can be tight because
you have followed the adage ofsuck in and pull up, or it can
be tight because how youmentioned it first time I heard

(01:05:53):
you talk was it is myofascialtissue in an unfortunate place.
It's a

It's, it's inconveniently located.

Track 1 (01:05:58):
inconveniently located.
That's what it was.
Not unfortunate.
Inconveniently located.
What I didn't realize is that wecan also have.
Trigger points there, and weskipped it on symptoms of, of
pelvic floor dysfunction.
But the people that I'm learninginclu, which included myself
that had a lot of trigger pointsin their pelvic floor, you might
not know because you may have tofeel internally to know that

(01:06:22):
they're there, but that ismuscle tissue, same as your
trapezius, is muscle tissue.
And if it gets injured, it canget tight, it can get trigger
points, it can have scar tissue,it can do all of that.
You encouraged me to go to aphysical therapist that does
internal work.
What I've learned for readers, Imean for listeners, part of this
point of the podcast is to kindof cut out the bullshit.

(01:06:46):
So I'll just say, when you'retrying to find a pelvic floor
physical therapist, mostphysical therapists will say
they know how to do pelvic floorbecause you know, they've
learned rehab.
But you wanna try to findsomebody that will do internal
work and that has certificationsand skill.
As long as they're professional.
It's not awkward.
I was stunned.
I mean, I had multiple triggerpoints.

(01:07:08):
I had multiple problems and youknow, full disclosure, just
because it will probably helpother people.
I didn't realize that I couldnot even feel part of the side
of my

Mm-Hmm.

Track 1 (01:07:20):
that affects sexual function.
That for, for women who have adifficulty having orgasm or who
can't feel well during sex orwho it hurts during sex.
So

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_02 (01:07:30):
an internal pelvic like a, a
trigger point in your pelvicfloor and you have sex, the
activity of those muscles whenthey already have a trigger
point in them and literally likehitting them with a penis or a
toy or something, will.
Create pain that is directlyrelated to the trigger point.

(01:07:51):
So that's, that's oftentimeslike a a sign that you need to
get some internal work done,which you can do a lot of
internal work.
Your on your own, you can getyourself a pelvic wand.
I joke in my book just because Ithink it is important to know
when you're searching for thesethings on the internet, that it
just looks like a sex toy.
So if you don't have, like, ifyou don't want your history
being shared with your employerthat it looks like you're just

(01:08:13):
looking up sex toys.
When you're at work, you'reactually looking for a pelvic
wand, which is going to helpimprove the function of your
pelvic floor.
But if you don't have any painin your pelvic floor or in your
pelvis until you have sex, thenthat probably means that you
have an internal trigger pointat least of some sort because
you're now provoking thattrigger point.

Track 1 (01:08:31):
yeah, if that trigger point is bugged for long enough,
our brains have this amazingability to just turn down the
volume on the pain.
So what I have found with otherpatients also and myself was it
might hurt for a bit, but then.
You can't feel it like you'renot in pain.
But I didn't realize, I couldn'tfeel, when she got on a trigger

(01:08:52):
point, I literally had no map ofthat body part.
I was like, are you touchingsomething?
And she's like, yeah, so justhold on a minute.
And she added more stimulationto the trigger point.
And then when I could feel it, Iwas like, ah.
Like

lindsay-mumma--dc--dnsp_2_ (01:09:05):
holy cow.
Yeah, but your brain doesn'twant you to to keep feeling that
intense pain.
And if you're not responding tothe pain, right, because it's
like, oh, it's still there andthis, I still have tension here.
Then your brain's like, okay,well, I guess maybe we'll just,
it, I, I guess we'll stop.
I don't,

Track 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah.

what else are we gonna do?

Track 1 (01:09:24):
yeah, so if you're feeling unstable, if you're
having problem controlling yoururine or having, or bowel
movements or if you're havingproblems with sex, it is really
worth seeing an internal.
A pelvic floor therapist.
I was grateful that youmentioned that to me.
It's not something I would'vethought of before, like I want
any more exams in that area, butother things that people can do.

(01:09:47):
So you and I are a pelvic floorchiropractors.
There isn't really a, like,

A label for us.
Yet one of my patients was like,can I call you a pelvic floor
chiropractor?
I was like, you can if you wantto.
I don't care.

Track 1 (01:09:58):
Yeah, I'm like, it's kind of hard'cause there's not
like an organization that I knowof that like has a central
listing of people who havestudied in it.
But if you talk to yourchiropractor and ask if they're
familiar with pelvic floor, theywill either know or not or know
who to point you towards.

Yes.
And like chiropractic care isactually a big part of pelvic
floor recovery, because if yourjoints are not moving well.
Then your neuromuscular skeletalsystem in general cannot be
fully functioning.
And so for, to, to just do likemuscular work, right?
With some trigger point therapy?

(01:10:36):
Well, there's joint dysfunctionthat goes along with muscular
dysfunction.
So if we have inappropriatesignaling from the nerves and we
have inappropriate activity fromthe muscles, we also have
inappropriate joint movement.
So whether that's too much, toolittle, or just kind of wonky,
we need to correct those jointdysfunctions and chiropractors

(01:10:58):
are the perfect, the perfectpeople to do that.
We're also like, what I tell alot of patients is that you.
If, if you wanna make a achange, then you need to be
including exercise.
But if you wanna make a changein five seconds, then you need
to see a chiropractor becauselike my follow-up visits with
patients are 15 minutes long.

(01:11:18):
We do a lot of manual therapy,we do a lot of exercises, we do
in addition to adjustments, butlike if I wanna change the neuro
musculoskeletal systeminstantaneously, the fastest way
to do that is with an adjustmentbecause it's one of the most
powerful tools in manualmedicine that exists.
So you have to follow that upwith lifestyle changes and your
home exercises and the exercisesthat we do in office and other,

(01:11:38):
you know, soft tissuetechniques, et cetera.
But if we actually wanna changethe system, the fastest way to
change it is with an adjustment.
So like, stop wasting your timeand go see a chiropractor.

Track 1 (01:11:48):
Yep, exactly.
Two more things and the firstone follows that perfectly.
I also really love in your bookhow you talk about posture being
one of the biggest things thatwe can do to help.
So breathing and posture, thoseare things you wouldn't think
would be the most powerful.
They are

They are because that's what you're
doing all day every day.

Track 1 (01:12:06):
Exactly.
So I loved how you talked aboutit.
And that's just my little punchsince we're out of time.
Please get her book and readabout the posture.
But in general, if you'relistening to this while you're
driving, if you're listening tothis while you're exercising,
the basics would be keeping yourhead and jaw above your
diaphragm, above your pelvicfloor.
And I love how you say I wroteit down.

(01:12:26):
Each time you check your phone,also check your body parts.
Like where is your chin, yourtongue, your

Is your tongue resting on the roof
of your mouth?
Is your head resting over yourbody?
Or when you check your phone,are you in like terrible posture
in your mouth breathing and it'sawful?

Track 1 (01:12:41):
I watch my posture a lot.
But you had a jaw exercise thatI have noticed relaxes my
nervous system better thanalmost anything else.
'cause I hold a lot of tensionin my jaw apparently.
So I just wanted to share thatreally quickly.
If you're out and about, if funthing you can try, do you wanna

(01:13:01):
lead them through it or do you

Yeah, sure.
So the rest position of themouth ought to be tongue on the
roof of your mouth, like you'reabout to say no, or something
that starts with n not pressinginto the back of your upper
teeth, but just resting behindthem.
And then your lips are togetherand your teeth are apart.
That is how your jaw should beif you are not talking or
eating.
And then you're therefore,obviously going to be breathing

(01:13:22):
through your nose if you want toexercise that.
If you press your tongue intothe roof of your mouth and you
put your what we'll just sayyour thumb behind, just behind
your chin underneath, and youpress your tongue on the roof of
your mouth, you feel thosemuscles come down into your
thumb.
That is your digastric musclesis what you're feeling.
And so they're underneath thetongue and they actually help

(01:13:44):
you draw the chin down and back.
So when, if you have your tongueon the roof of your mouth and
you press your tongue into theroof of your mouth.
That will actually stimulate theopening of your jaw.
So when you open, then you cantake your hand away from your
mouth if you want to, but youwanna feel those muscles that
you just activated come on, andyou open your mouth with your

(01:14:08):
tongue on the roof of your mouthstill, and then close.
It's hard to describe while I'mdoing the exercise, but you open
with your tongue on the roof ofyour mouth.
That helps to strengthen andalso helps to improve the glide
of your temporomandibular joint.
So a lot of people are sufferingwith TMJ dysfunction and one of
the easiest ways to, to helpimprove that is simply by noting

(01:14:32):
that if you open your mouthcorrectly, it should function
well.
Most people do not have damageto the tempera mandibular joint,
but they have clicking, theyhave cracking, they have sounds,
they have pain that comewhenever they open their mouth
or they open too wide orwhatever.
And if they retrain that theyactually.
Bring their jaw down and back,instead of jutting it out to the

(01:14:52):
side or jutting it forward.
By training those muscles, thenthey can improve the function of
their TMJ.
And when you improve thefunction of the TMJ, just like
the, our whole body is a closedkinematic system.
So if I can just, you know,finish us off here because I
know we're over time already,but the whole body is a closed
system and anything that you doin one part of the body will
affect other parts of the body,if not just the entirety of the

(01:15:16):
rest of the body.
So this closed kinematic system,if you have parts that are not
functioning well, you will haveother parts that are not
functioning well in addition tothat.
So what I say in the book, Igive the exercises and I just
tell people I want you to focusfor three weeks on your most
dysfunctional dysfunction.
So ask yourself realistically,if you were to triage, what is

(01:15:36):
the biggest problem that I have?
Is it my posture?
Is it my breathing?
Is it the tension that I'mholding?
Is it that I have completelydysfunctional feet?
Is it that I have adysfunctional jaw?
Is it that my nutrition iscompletely off?
Is it that I have absolutely nohope in myself because I feel
like I've tried everything?
Whatever.
Like your most dysfunctionaldysfunction, focus on that for
three weeks.
You'll find improvements in yourpelvic floor because if you

(01:15:59):
affect one part of the system,you'll affect other parts of the
system.
That doesn't mean that in threeweeks you're gonna be cured of
whatever ails you, right?
But it means that you have madeintentional improvement into
your neuro musculoskeletalsystem, and it is a closed
kinematic system.
When you make improvements inthe system, it has downstream
effects that will makeimprovements elsewhere.
And the pelvic floor is just onepart of this whole body system,

(01:16:22):
which is why if you're workingwith pelvic floor dysfunction,
you have to address breathing,you have to address posture, you
have to address nutrition, youhave to address the care team,
you have to address the triggerpoints, you have to address
everything because everything iseverything.
Nothing comes from nothing.
It's all just transmutation ofenergy throughout the body.
And if we're able to affect onepart of the system will affect

(01:16:44):
other parts of the system.
So if you're affecting one partof the system negatively, you'll
affect the rest of the systemnegatively.
If you impact and affect onepart of the system positively,
you will impact and affect thesystem positively in other
places.

Track 1 (01:16:55):
Yep.
How we hold our jaw affects howwe hold our head.
Head affects our jaw.
Jaw and head.
Affect Our neck.
Neck and shoulders.
Affect our diaphragm.
Diaphragm affects our pelvicfloor.
Pelvic floor.
I mean, feet affect our pelvic.
Everything affects everything sothe most.
So when you can do something forsome area, you're helping
everything.
But if I could pick top areas togive some focus to, pelvic floor

(01:17:19):
would be one.
So I'm so grateful for yourwork.
I'm so grateful for what you'vedone.
Thank you for your time and yourexpertise.
And also just thanks for beingcool while you're

Hey, thanks.

Track 1 (01:17:27):
that time and expertise.

I'm so glad to know you and I, I
appreciate the conversation, sothank you for inviting me.

Track 1 (01:17:34):
Until next time.
It is just so great to talk toher again, and I am so pleased
that you got to sit in on theconversation.
Or for anyone patients orfriends that has asked me
questions about it, that then Icould ask Lindsey, I'm grateful

(01:17:54):
for that experience.
So takeaways would be numberone.
It is not normal to pee yourpants just a little after you
have a baby, or when you getolder or after an injury, it is
common.
Yes, but not normal.
This is muscle tissue.
It can get injured like anyother muscle tissue.
And if it is not doing its jobof holding up your bladder, And

(01:18:17):
of handling the differentstresses that that could mean
like jumping, bouncing, orhaving a full bladder than it is
a sign of dysfunction.
If you're having any urinaryleakage and there are things
that you can do to help.
Number two, key goals are notthe answer for all pelvic floor
health.
In fact, if the muscle hastrigger points or spasms, it can

(01:18:39):
be the worst thing to tightenthem further over and over at
every stoplight.
Like so many of us have beentold so many times stop doing
that.
Stop doing that until you knowwhat the problem is.
And lastly, our pelvic flooraffects our breathing.
And our breathing affectseverything.
Our pelvic floor affects ourposture, including our jaw,

(01:19:02):
which affects everything.
It affects our stability and itaffects our felt sense of
safety, which surprise affectseverything.
For further information on rehabor a deeper dive in what pelvic
floor.
Or a deeper dive into pelvicfloor anatomy and healing.

(01:19:22):
You can look at Dr.
Munez book, it's called yourpelvic floor sucks, but it
doesn't have to.
And I put a link for that in theshow notes.
If you are in Southern Utah, youcan come find me Dr.
Becca Whitaker.
If you are in North Carolina,you can find Dr.
Muma.
And if you want resources forit, anywhere else in the
country.
I would look up pelvic floorspecialists, physical therapists

(01:19:44):
that have a pelvic floorspecialist.
Delineation in fact, one way tomake sure that they really know
their pelvic floor stuff is thatwhen you are asking questions of
the physical therapist, lots ofthem say they do pelvic floor
rehab because they do, but onesthat really know their stuff
actually do know how to dointernal work, which sounds

(01:20:05):
awful, but actually is sohelpful.
So those are some resources youas well as any chiropractors
that have continuing educationexperience in functional
movements and pelvic floorrehab.
And you should be able to tellthat when you call them or look
at their websites, but if youhave any questions, please feel
free to message me on thesocials.

(01:20:26):
You can just direct message meat Dr.
Becca Whitaker.
For our next episode, I am sohappy to bring back William
DeMille.
So, if you haven't listened tothe previous episode, head back
to season one, episode 13, inthat we talk about agriculture,
healthy soil regenerativegardening and how to get
healthier food.

(01:20:46):
He is so well studied on thesubject from many different
schools of thought about how wecan care for the earth better
and protect its soil and buildit up so that it can begin to
give back to us.
We talked about climate changeand how we can help that.
And we talked about whatactually happens in the soil or

(01:21:07):
with the roots of the plantsthat are in healthy soil that
affect the nutritional contentof our food and also affect the
taste and the pest resistance.
All kinds of fantastic stuff.
So if you haven't listened tothat and you're interested head
back to episode 13, but this ispart two, which I saved until it
was a little bit closer to thetime when people are thinking

(01:21:29):
about putting in their gardens.
This episode is all about how toactually grow the good food.
How to create the soil that ishealthy and functioning and has
all the really greatmicroorganisms in them.
We go over steps.
You will need what you will needto buy, what you will need to
not buy what common gardening,traditional methods there are

(01:21:52):
that you should avoid, like theplague.
And what can actually help.
So if you are even a little bitinterested in growing some food,
whether that be in a pot in yourbackyard or in a big field,
please tune in next week, youwill be happy.
You spent the time for WilliamDeMille.
And I'll meet you there.
Bye.

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