July 28, 2023 • 45 mins
Angela Evenich (she/her) is a self-proclaimed disability activist and disabled graduate student studying Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences at San Francisco State University (Graduated May 2023 | Class of 2023). Her passion for empowering others as a speech-language therapist is fueled by her experiences with disability advocacy, receiving disability-related services, and navigating the world as someone with cerebral palsy.
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(00:00):
Hello everyone.
And thank you so much forjoining us on the what the
fricative podcast.
We have our lovely friend here,Angie Evanage, and she's going
to talk to us about veryimportant stuff here.
Angie's a self proclaimeddisability.
Activists and disabled graduatestudent who has some important
things to talk about with ustoday.
(00:20):
There's a lot of ableism thatgoes on within the world, but
also specifically in the worldof speech pathology that needs
to be spoken about.
So today we're going to talkabout that really important
conversation.
But before we get to all thatimportant stuff, Angie, thank
you so much for joining us onthis podcast.
Can you tell us a little bitabout who you are outside of the
speech pathology world?
(00:42):
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me.
Yeah, my name's Angie.
Let's see.
I'm a twin.
I have a twin sister that she'sa fraternal twin.
So she doesn't look like me.
And she actually has brown hair.
So we have different coloredhair.
So with that family is reallybig to me.
Community is really big to me.
(01:02):
I'm really close to my friendsand family.
So community is something I'msure I'll talk about later, too.
Community is something that'salways been super important to
me.
Besides that, I am pretty sassy.
I'm sassy.
I'm short.
I'm, like, this five foot,really sassy person.
I use my hands to talk a lot.
(01:23):
So that's...
about me.
I'm just a really big likecommunity person and people
person.
And yeah, that's awesome.
Even though you guys arefraternal, do you still have
twin telepathy?
I okay.
We get that question a lot.
And I think we do just becausewe will say the same thing, or
(01:44):
like we're thinking the samething.
And I feel like we can just lookat each other and we understand
like what we're trying to like,say, yeah.
That's so awesome.
I've always wondered what it'slike to have a twin.
I have a younger brother andwe're 14 months apart.
So we're almost Irish twins.
But same kind of thing.
Like your sister, I have curlyhair and I'm tan skin and he is
like very fair skin and hasstraight hair.
(02:06):
And when I tell people, Oh yeah,we're siblings.
They're like, Oh, from the samemom or dad.
I'm like, no, both.
We just aren't a super mixedrace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how we are too.
Like people think we're bestfriends, like they never guessed
that we're sisters.
And then when we tell them like,yeah, we're sisters, but we're
also like twins, like what?
That's so funny.
(02:26):
That's awesome.
I'm so glad that you have herand she has you.
So talking a little bit aboutspeech pathology.
I know you're in graduate schoolnow but how was your journey up
into kind of applying tograduate school?
Was speech pathology somethingthat you always knew you wanted
to do or at what point did thatkind of come into your career
path?
Yeah, so I knew I wanted to be aspeech therapist in high school.
(02:50):
I was born with cerebral palsy,which is a disability that
usually is caused by damage to adeveloping brain, and it impacts
like physical stuff.
So balance, motor coordination,things like that.
So growing up, I went to likespeech, occupational therapy,
(03:10):
and physical therapy.
So therapy was a really big partof my life growing up all the
way through high school.
And then I stopped, like Istopped speech right before high
school.
I stopped a couple other things.
But when I got into high school,I feel like that's when I
started learning more aboutdisability identity and how
(03:32):
other people.
seeing me as a disabled personbecause my disability is a
visible one.
So I feel like growing up, Ialways had a team, like I had my
IEP team around me.
And I feel like junior year ofhigh school was when everyone
(03:52):
was talking about what they weregoing to do for college, what
they were going to do after.
And my teachers and stuff neverreally asked me what I wanted to
do and I that's when I realizedI was pushed to the side in that
way.
All my friends, everyone elsewas like, had plans and stuff,
but no one really asked me andthen I remember the moment I
(04:14):
decided I wanted to be an SLPwas I was a junior in high
school and we had chemistry.
My chemistry class and theteacher for that class had us
like bringing these big books,like these like big textbooks to
class every single day.
And so for me, having CP, it wasreally hard for me to carry
(04:35):
them.
So when I would, and then Istarted.
Like the whole class realizedthat we never use them.
So this teacher wanted us to lugaround these really like big,
thick books, and we never usethem.
So all of us stopped bringingthem to class.
And then one day he like wentaround the room.
(04:56):
And said, I'm going to giveeveryone detention that does not
have their book.
And like, all of us gotdetention.
And I remember texting my momand telling her because she
picked me up after school.
I was like, yeah, pick me uplater because I have detention.
And she was like, for what?
And I said, oh, for because Ididn't read my chemistry
textbook.
And she was like, Angie, it's inyour IEP that you get a copy of
(05:21):
textbooks.
In each room, like each teacherhas to have a copy of textbooks
for you, because it's hard foryou to carry them with your
disability.
And I had no idea.
And the teachers didn't knoweither.
And at that point, then that'swhen I like send this email to
my counselor or someone, and Iexplained It's on the teachers
to, to meet the IEP, like not meto fit in to do what everyone
(05:46):
else is doing.
So that moment, like it's afunny story, but it's like that
moment really shifted mythinking more into advocacy.
And then I remember my whole IEPteam had a meeting about it and
at that time I was in speech.
And so I thought about who onthis team is missing that could
(06:07):
help with communication andadvocacy.
So then I thought of SLP andthat's in my mind when I
connected advocacy.
With speech and communication,and then I thought what who is
teaching disabled people how toadvocate for themselves?
Because if I never saidanything, or if people don't say
(06:28):
anything, they're going to get Isay, lost in the system.
But that's what I thought.
Of it.
So that's how I decided I wantedto be an SLP because I wanted to
work with disabled people inlike advocacy and communication.
Long story, but that's how I gotdecided I wanted to do it.
No, and I love that.
And I think that this whole ideathat disabled people shouldn't
(06:53):
don't deserve a spot in theworld of speech pathology and in
the world in general is such afrustrating.
statement that anyone can evermake.
Because people with any sort ofdisability, people with any sort
of trauma, have such a differentexperience when they're teaching
someone else about somethingthat they've already been
through.
It gives them so much insightinto, what's actually going on.
(07:14):
I've been through this, so I'mgoing to tell you all the great
things that have come out ofthis because I've already been
through this.
And I think that is just what weneed in this world of speech
pathology, diversity in allparts of the spectrum because as
someone who went into speech, Idon't have a disability, I think
that I have ADHD, I probably do,but but I did come in with
(07:35):
experience of my mom having tohave a speech therapist in the
hospital when she was sick, andI had the family part of it and
I go into each session, knowingwhat it's like to be on the
other side of just aprofessional spewing out all
these big words to you and you'dbe like, okay.
I'm just going to google it.
(07:55):
It's just that feeling ofknowing how it feels to be on
the other side.
So you treat just the world ofyour, just your clinical world
so much different.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And I feel like that's nottalked about, at least in The
environments that I've been in,it was never talked about or
celebrated to have any kind ofpersonal experience with speech
(08:16):
therapy, but I think it isimportant because we have
different insights.
Like you said, exactly.
And I'm sure we'll talk aboutlater about how.
You having a disability andbeing a professional in a
profession, like a professionalposition with your clients, just
make them see someone who's, youcan be successful and have a
disability.
You can be successful and havetrauma.
(08:37):
There's just so manyopportunities now for us to talk
about all these things openlyand just say so many people have
been going through thisprivately, feeling like they
can't talk to anyone.
But now, why don't we just talkabout it openly, so we can
really just talk to all thepeople who have been going
through this silently, and nowwe can talk about it together as
a community.
Yeah, I agree.
(08:57):
I think that's really importantto.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how was your applicationjourney to graduate school?
I can only imagine how that was.
So my story is a funny one.
Can I go back and talk aboutundergrad because I feel like
that.
Okay so having the background Idid when I decided I wanted to
(09:18):
be an SLP.
I thought.
In my mind, which is a fairassumption, I thought because
this is a field that works withdisabled people that me as a
disabled person would beaccepted generally and the
environments have to go in.
And that was not the case, likean undergrad in my first SLP
(09:38):
class, and a bunch of us thathad a disability and needed
accommodations.
Went up to our professor afterit was an anatomy class and at
this university, like we had towhen you enroll in the
disability office, you got likea paper that said, you have
accommodations and you wouldgive that to the professor and
(10:00):
this is pre COVID.
So we were in person and a bunchof us went up to this professor
gave them our papers and thenthey looked at us and pulled us.
To the side of the class in acircle, literally like in front
of everyone, and basically saidthat like this field is not
going to accommodate people withdisabilities.
(10:21):
So get out now.
And I just remember sittingthere I don't know if I just did
it process, or I just am so usedto like people telling me what I
can and can't do right so I, Iremember like the other people
were just.
I go what did you say?
And I was just sitting there.
And then I think we just walkedaway.
(10:41):
I forgot.
And then I remembered that lateron, like processing that and I'm
like, Oh, that's what they toldus.
Like they told us that we can'tbe an SLP.
And that started thisUnfortunately, I feel like that
was the start of justdiscrimination in my entire
(11:02):
undergraduate experience.
And so with that, why I wantedto talk about that is I feel
like something to that'simportant to talk about is, in
my undergrad program, they toldus a lot that you won't get into
any schools if you have Theytold us 3.8 will get you
waitlisted.
(11:22):
Yeah, 3.9 maybe and then it waslike 4.0.
So that was our range.
And so me like I had a lot ofprofessors that wouldn't
accommodate me.
And so that kind of puts me inthe back and I feel like I got a
lot of like it puts me behindpeople is what I felt like it's
(11:44):
what I'm trying to say.
And I had my grit.
I didn't have a 4.0.
I had a 3.6 GPA.
I feel like that's also nottalked about that much.
I know you talked about that onyour Instagram, which I
appreciate.
And I know a lot of people dotoo, but I did not have a 4.0.
I had a 3.6.
And so all my professors weretelling me you aren't going to
(12:05):
get in anywhere.
And that GPA is too low.
And so I applied anyways,because this is what I wanted to
do.
And I my personal statement, Ijust put a lot like it.
Basically, my personal statementwas like my story from
undergrad, high school, evenundergrad, like all of it.
(12:26):
And I applied to five schoolsand I got into four.
Yeah, which I feel like it'snot, I don't, I know you hear
stories of people like sayingthat they got into one or they
got waitlisted at one and I hadfriends that only got into one.
So I did not expect, especiallywith everyone.
(12:48):
Saying how, oh, you're not goingto get in if you don't have a 4
0 or if you have a 3 9 and thenpeople on top of that telling me
you're not going to get inbecause you have a disability.
And then I got into fourschools.
Yeah.
It is so crazy to me howundergraduate faculty members
feel the need to tell us what wecan and cannot do.
(13:10):
Yes, that's, that was wild to metoo because, y'all job is to
just teach us like you don't, Idon't like that.
Yeah, I just, it's wild to methat people think they can just
tell a student, Oh, this isn'tthe field for you.
Yeah, and you're exactly righttheir job is to teach us and
sometimes they don't even dothat.
(13:31):
No, they don't.
I'm like, it's.
Yeah, that, it absolutelyboggles my mind when, people who
are supposed to be in, aposition of our life that's
going to catapult us into a nextlike kind of educational level
of that subject are telling uslike, hey, you're not good
enough.
And, had you not been such astrong hearted individual and
(13:52):
have such a passion for speechpathology and knew this is
exactly what you want to do.
One little second of doubt couldhave caused you to not apply and
you could have been in acompletely different position
today.
just because of that one personwho decided that just because
they weren't confident in theirlife, they wanted to spread that
out onto you.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think about that all thetime.
If I didn't have a strongpassion for the field, or it was
(14:16):
just something that, I was justtaking classes towards and I
didn't know.
And someone told me that I wouldbe, Oh, okay.
They're probably right becausethey're the professor, so I'm
just going to change my major.
I think about that a lot too.
And I think professors, I don'tknow if they realize or they
know, and they don't care howmuch power and influence they
(14:37):
have over people where theycould literally get people out
and I know it happens persuadepeople to leave.
That could be amazing.
SLPs.
and really change our field.
Exactly.
And I think that, for a longtime, our graduate school in,
our graduate schools in theUnited States went along that
line of if you don't have, somesort of 3.
(14:59):
9 to 4.
0 GPA, like you, it's just not ago for you, don't even try.
But that was so long ago.
And I feel like there's so manynew graduate schools now, or so
many more graduate schools thatare learning how to accommodate
their students.
Yeah.
In different ways so thatthey're not only looking at GPA.
They're not only looking at GREscores because all of those just
numbers don't tell you muchabout four years of experience
(15:21):
that I had an undergrad like myfreshman year is completely
different from the person that Iwas my senior year.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And most people who go away toschool to like, people are what,
I don't know, 18 years old whenthey go to college, like my 18
year old self is completelydifferent than who I was junior
and senior year.
So I think that should happen ingraduate school.
And I'm just saying this, Idon't think it'll ever happen.
(15:43):
But I feel like they should justlook at the last 60 credits
because I was so much moreserious about college in My
junior and senior year, when Iknew that I wanted to be a
speech pathologist, when I knewI wanted to go to graduate
school, I had a purpose now.
And I wasn't just taking theselike math 101 when I'm not good
at math.
Yeah.
The most ran the most randomclasses.
Like I think I was taking likeit was cool though, but my like
(16:05):
sophomore year, I took like mathacross cultures and it was like
random classes like that.
Exactly.
And, I want to touch uponsomething that you mentioned
also, where you said thatthere's some professors that
didn't even accommodate you forthe accommodations that you
needed, and that is just sofrustrating to hear because
that's their legal job.
(16:25):
Their job is to accommodate you,to put you on the level playing
ground, just as everyone else,because that is what you
deserve.
Yeah.
And not only that, but it wasreally surprising because this
field works with disabledpeople.
So the fact that you don't wantto accommodate your student, I
always thought, do you treatyour clients like that?
(16:48):
I'm confused.
Yeah.
I thought that's literally ourjob is to accommodate, support,
and advocate for the people wework with.
And that should also extend touniversity students.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Our field is the foundation ofour field is built upon
advocacy, communication, andsupporting our clients.
(17:09):
And it boggles my mind that whenstudents ask for that advocacy,
students ask for thoseaccommodations, it's then looked
upon as oh, you're being lazy.
You're being lazy.
You're trying to make thingseasy for you.
Everyone else can do it.
So you can to like, no, I needthese accommodations.
Yeah.
And do I remember I got sofrustrated in undergrad because
(17:29):
I had a professor that gave meaccommodations, but gave me a
really hard time about it.
And then I was in their officehour and one of the
accommodations was because thiswas a professor that liked to do
that thing where they give outthe notes but it's like blank.
I don't know if you ever had aprofessor like that gives out
the notes, but some of them areblank.
(17:50):
So you have to come to class towrite them down.
And so for me, which I get theintent because they want you
there and listening.
I understand that.
But for me, it's really hardbecause it's hard for me to
write and to write super fast.
So I remember asking.
I don't remember exactly, but Ithink basically I wasn't able to
get.
(18:10):
The notes like as anaccommodation, I wasn't able to
get the filled out notes.
And then I was in an office hourand this professor said, Yeah, I
feel so bad for you because Iwould sit in the front.
And they said, Yeah, I feel sosorry for you because I see you
like struggling in class towrite the notes out.
And so in my head.
I thought, okay, thenaccommodate me struggling to
(18:34):
help me.
So I think that's something too.
I don't know.
It feels like that a lot of thetimes, even if that's not their
intent.
It feels, that it's sink or swimand the best people will be in
our field anyway.
We're not going to really helpyou along the way.
That's how it felt for me.
Yeah.
And it's scary to advocate foryourself.
(18:56):
Sometimes you have to putyourself in a situation or like
kind of the mentality say, okay,I know I need this.
I just need to ask for it.
And, it's really hard to ask forhelp sometimes.
And then where you're.
Shot down by people like yourprofessors who were just like,
no, thanks.
I see you struggling and it'sreally sad to watch, but I'm not
going to do anything about it.
Okay.
And then, again, going back tothe whole thing had you not, or
(19:17):
have you not been like such astrong hearted person who knows
exactly what they need and knowshow to ask for it?
You could have just been.
Totally embarrassed to then everask for accommodations for
yourself ever again.
Yeah, because I rememberthinking, okay, then do I need
to look a different way inclass?
Is it that obvious that I'mstruggling?
Do other people around me thinkthat, it's very it hurt my self
(19:41):
esteem in that way.
I don't know.
It was very, it made me moreself conscious.
Exactly.
And you honestly are just thereto do what everyone else is
doing.
Yeah, like I'm just here to getthe notes, listen to your
lecture, get the notes, and thenleave.
Yeah.
That's so hard.
But so you went, you applied tograduate school, you got into
(20:02):
four, which is amazing.
Oh, that's, I did want to goback to that.
Yes, 4.
0 GPA not realistic for mostpeople in undergrad.
If someone tells you that, just,Brush them off because I got in
with a 3.
2 GPA.
Yes.
I applied to eight schools.
I got into one and all I neededwas that one to take a chance on
me.
But if you know that you have apassion for speech pathology,
(20:25):
not everyone you meet is goingto be on your team.
Not everyone you meet is goingto be rooting for you.
You just got to walk past themand just know exactly what you
want.
It may take one.
Application round, it may taketwo, it may take four.
But, if you know that this iswhat you want to don't give up
on yourself.
No, and I think people sayingthat, oh, you need a certain
(20:48):
range.
I think that is a way to keeppeople out of her field.
Maybe I really don't know thereason.
That's my guess that it's a wayto keep people out of the field
or keep it where it's.
Just 4.
0, just people with 4.
0 GPAs, which is fine.
And I'm not getting on here andtrying to discredit anyone that
has a 4.
(21:09):
0.
But I think it's important toremember, too, that's like
academic work.
And when you go into gradschool, it's clinical work where
you're literally sitting infront of someone and working
with someone.
And so it's great if you have a4.
0 or really high GPA and you'regood at test taking.
That's great.
But then you also need to knowclinical skills.
(21:30):
And I think that's somethingthat I don't know.
I think that's something too,that we need to, I wish the
field would talk about more.
And I'm not saying that, Oh,people with 4.
0s don't have clinical skills,but it's so different.
Absolutely.
You need people skills.
To be a psychologist, bottomline.
And that's another thing I talkabout too within graduate
(21:51):
schools.
And I think that, yes, of coursewe need to show what our GPA is.
Yeah.
The GRE, I think, personally, isabsolutely pointless.
And it's just another form ofdiscrimination because not
everyone has the money or theresources to actually do test
prep.
So that puts people who don'thave that at a whole different
level, which is so weird.
But I think that interviews.
(22:13):
Are key to grad schoolapplications.
I think that every school shoulddo an interview because it gives
people the opportunity to say,okay, this is who I am on paper,
but this is who I am in reallife.
Because I was so much moredifferent person in real life,
and I was shown on my paper ormy kind of transcripts and stuff
but going back to GPA, like youhave people who are going post
(22:34):
bach to graduate school like 10years after they've already
graduated college, so now you'retrying to tell me that you're
going to judge these people ongrades from 10 years ago on how
well they could be a speechpathologist?
It just doesn't make any sense.
But let's go back to thinkingabout you.
So you got into four.
How did you decide which schoolto go to?
(22:54):
Because this is a thing too,when people get into more than
one school and they always saySam, how do you decide?
And I'm like, honestly.
You have to decide what schoolis best for you.
I always tell people, ignorewhat the statistics are and all
of that, because the statisticsmay not line up with what you
want.
For me, I wanted to go to aschool that had lots of support,
and lots of external, externshipexperiences.
(23:16):
I wanted the experiences.
And that's the school that Iwent to.
Yeah.
So for me, I have an interestingstory with this too.
So I got into my first gradschool March of 2021, like early
March.
And I remember thinking, becauseof my experience with undergrad,
(23:37):
I wanted to be very intentionalin picking a school that would
be accepting of me as a disabledperson, my accommodations, and
just not just tolerate mypresence in their program, but
actually accept it.
And so I got into my firstprogram and I was really excited
and I, and I thought, okay, Ineed to meet with someone from
(24:00):
the program to ask aboutaccommodations and start,
realistically, this is if I knowwhat I want to be intentional
and asking about these things Ineed to ask.
So I made an office hour withsomeone from this university
that I got into.
And I remember going on thezoom.
(24:22):
It was on zoom.
And I said, yeah, I want to askabout accommodations in your
clinic.
And they looked at me and saidwhat do you mean accommodations?
And I was like, oh, disabilityrelated accommodations.
And because I disclosed mydisability.
And talked about it in mypersonal statements.
I just assumed that theseprograms, especially ones that
(24:44):
accepted me, knew already that Iwas disabled.
So I was just, oh yeah, I'm justasking about accommodations.
And they said, for what?
And I'm like, oh, I havecerebral palsy.
I need accommodations.
I just want to talk to you aboutit.
And they looked at me and said.
Oh, we didn't know you had adisability.
And the way they said it likethey looked like scared like the
(25:06):
way their body language was.
And I just remember sittingthere, and I was at home because
it was in the pandemic.
And I remember later.
My mom was in the other room andshe said, I heard that person
say that, like that they didn'tknow that.
Sorry, I don't mean tointerrupt, but I'm sure your mom
(25:27):
with her mom, like she was readyto go into that room.
Yeah yeah, I think she was justshook and she was in another
room and then after she likemoved right in front of my door,
she was like, what the heck isgoing on?
And then, we were talking and itjust didn't really seem, it
really seemed to bother thisperson that I had a disability
(25:51):
and I was asking aboutaccommodations and the answers
were really short and a, Oh, Idon't know if that would work.
Just not really.
Validating at all.
And then they kept bringing up,Oh, we didn't know you had
cerebral palsy, but now that yousaid something we can tell.
Yeah.
(26:12):
And my mom heard that too.
And after, did that person saythat to you?
And I, yeah.
And I just, I don't know how Ireacted.
I think I just said thank youand then cut it off, but I was
like in shock because no one hasever said that to me.
That is wild.
(26:33):
And I'm so happy you can laughabout it now, but that is so
hurtful.
Yeah.
That is just, that, I cannotbelieve that those words came
out of someone who's in theposition of welcoming new
graduate students.
Yeah, exactly.
And in a very a shameful, Ithink something that I don't
(26:54):
like a lot that just makes memad in general is people think
that they can tell me how tofeel about my disability, and
that's very much what thisperson was doing, like
projecting their discomfort ontome.
And making me feel like it wasshameful that I had CP.
Yeah.
It's wait, I'm the one that hasa disability and you're looking
(27:14):
at me.
If there's something.
If that's wrong, like you're theone that accepted me into your
program.
Yeah, that's my personalstatement.
That was about me and thedisability that I have.
So where's the disconnect here?
Yeah.
And there was an interview forthat program.
It was a zoom interview, but Iremember talking in that
(27:39):
interview about, I thinksomething came up about how do
you work as A person in theclinic or something like that.
And then I think I mentionedsomething about, oh, my
disability forces me to beflexible.
And yeah, I talked about it,which is it's a wild and I don't
know, this brings up a reallyimportant point that, not.
(28:01):
It's really disheartening to geta denial from a graduate school,
I really is, but sometimes theyare truly a blessing in
disguise, because not everygraduate school is for every
single person, and I'm so gladthat you took the opportunity
to, talk to them, because hadyou not, Talk to them, it was
your first acceptance and youjust said, all right, this is
it.
I got accepted.
(28:21):
I'm going to go.
Your grad school experiencecould have been completely
different.
Yeah, and I think it's veryirresponsible then on their part
to if you really don't, if youreally didn't know.
Some like key things thatsomeone put in their statement
because that really could havebeen my only acceptance and then
(28:44):
you telling me basically, theydidn't come out and say we don't
want you in our program, butthey, the way that they made me
feel is very much like it.
There was no excitement oranything like that.
But if that was my only program,that would be my only decision.
So I think it's irresponsible onprograms parts of that, if
you're not really.
(29:05):
Being, I feel like we just putso much into our applications
and then to not, consider it, orI don't want to assume, but to
not consider it or something, Ithink that's just like off
putting.
Yeah, and it's just also notfair to you that people just
still have this view that peoplewith disabilities are less.
(29:28):
No, like that is not it like youare going in or you are in a
speech pathology program and youhave such different and great
like life skill experiences thatyou can talk upon that you can
share with your classmates sothat you can share with your
clients like people look at SLPstudents with a disability as a
(29:48):
disadvantage when they're somuch more an advantage than most
other people because you arecoming with the experience you
know what it feels like to beshot down by professors.
You know what it feels like tonot get the accommodations you
need.
So when you're in a situationwhere you're the SLP and your
client is not getting theaccommodations, I bet you, you
are going to go right to whoeveryou need to go to.
(30:11):
You better fix this right now.
And that is the passion thatlike.
So many other people can'tprovide.
And I think that's why we needto have this conversation out
loud, exactly.
So we got into graduate school.
You picked the one that you likefirst semester.
How was it?
It was a little different.
So I'm at San Francisco State.
(30:32):
And so when I started in 2021,we were still.
Pandemic.
So our first semester was gonnabe online.
But so that was a littledifferent and nerve wracking
starting a new program online.
But it was good.
I all the professors were reallysupportive.
It was a really supportiveenvironment.
(30:53):
I think something that I reallyliked about San Francisco State
and why it was one of theschools that I was really
interested in is it's reallycentered and focused on social
justice.
And that was, it's really.
Evident and obvious in thisprogram that all of our classes
we talk about equity and antidiscrimination like that's the
(31:15):
base of these classes already.
And then we just build on thetopics and yeah, it was really a
supportive environment, academicand class wise for me, clinic
was a little bit of a learningcurve because it was online, but
not only that, I think for me,just learning, yeah.
Leaning into what it means forme to be a disabled clinician,
(31:38):
how to ask for support and,like, how to ask for
accommodations and help.
Is something I had to learnalong the way.
That was hard in the beginningbeing a 1st time clinician, it
was hard for all of us, but thenon top of that.
When something went wrong,trying to tell myself, this
doesn't mean you can't be anSLP, you just have to think of a
(31:59):
different way to do it, and howto ask for accommodation so you
could do it that different way.
And do you feel like there weremany people, whether like on the
Instagram world or in yourschool or just in the world of
speech pathology in general thatyou can reach out to for advice
like that for like being adisabled clinician, probably not
many people, right?
No, I'm an undergrad.
(32:21):
I didn't really know anydisabled people that were also
SLPs, but then when the pandemichappened and we went on
lockdown, I remember just likegoing on Instagram and I guess
just like trying to find otherdisabled people and they aren't
out there.
But I think now people are morecomfortable with sharing their
(32:42):
story.
There's Facebook groups forSLP's with disabilities.
There's student organizationsnow that there's a lot of
resources out there that Ididn't know back in 2019 that
I'm a part of now.
So when I was going throughthat, I was able to like post on
a Facebook group and say, Hey,I'm really struggling with this.
It was.
(33:03):
An AAC clinic.
So for me, it was really hard tohold up like my iPad on the
screen and show because my handsget shaky.
And yeah, I was just asking,does anyone else experiences
anyone else have suggestions andpeople did and they were
helpful.
So I think that's.
That's why like I really lovecommunity because people have a
(33:26):
lot of wisdom and you can shareit and then help people,
especially if you find like acommunity that's like non
judgmental and just give me allthe questions you need.
And, if I have an answer I'llprovide it to you and I'm so
happy that you found a communitythat you can reach out to
because that just, it makes sucha difference.
It makes graduate school feel somuch less alone.
And sometimes when we go throughhappy parts of grad school, like
(33:50):
the bad grades and stuff likethat.
And you can just reach out topeople and say I got a bad
grade.
And it's okay, we all did atsome point in graduate school.
Like you are not going to fail.
You're still going to be asuccessful SLB.
You're still going to be great,but you reached the point of a
bad grade.
And I know exactly how thatfeels.
So speaking on kind of thecommunity and, being part of
groups that you feel welcomedin, you started a little group
(34:11):
yourself, didn't you?
Yeah.
So okay, so when we hadorientation for my program, I
remember my, one of theprofessors, Was saying that of
anyone wants to start aninfinity group in the program
for just, different groups ofpeople or shared interest or
(34:33):
whatever that is, you can.
And so I remember thinking, Oh,it'd be so cool to have.
A group of disabled students, sojust a meeting space for people
to come and talk and havesupport and to share a
community.
And so I reached out to thatprofessor with my idea to make
an affinity group for disabledstudents, and it would be.
(34:54):
Because everyone at thatorientation was undergrad and
graduate, so it would be for theundergrads and the grad
students.
And, yeah, my program was reallysupportive.
They were like, oh, yeah, okay,let's do it.
So we reached out to NYSSLHA andthen they helped us advertise
it.
And yeah, what it is, it'sbasically a meeting space.
We meet once a month.
And I start, we started it lastyear, February 2022.
(35:20):
Anyone can come, it's fordisabled undergrad and grad
students, but I don't ask anyonelike, oh, show me proof that
you're disabled.
Just come if you want to come.
And then we just shareresources.
We talk sometimes aboutdisability, sometimes not.
And it's been a really coolexperience in that way.
And it's cool too for me andother people to get to meet
(35:43):
undergrads and.
Then, I have, I'm in thatposition in a way to say, Hey,
if you're feeling discouraged,which I know people were.
I'm a grad student.
Other people here are gradstudents.
We're disabled.
And so if that can give you anykind of, hope, maybe or some
(36:03):
kind of representation likethat's all that really matters,
right?
Or just someone to talk to andsay I know exactly what you're
going through.
Here's my advice.
Or, I hear you.
I know exactly how that feels.
I'm here to support you.
Just hearing that sometimes it'sjust a form of comfort that we
didn't realize we needed.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So talking more about just likerepresentation and being a
(36:26):
disabled SLP, do you communicatewith your clients that you have
a disability?
Do you just keep it on the hush?
How do you go around doing that?
Yeah.
So when I started my, when Istarted my internships I was my
1st 1 was at a school.
It was in person full time allweek.
(36:48):
And I remember asking mysupervisor about Oh, how do you
think we should address mydisability or how you know what.
What do you think we should do?
Because that was my first timenavigating something like that.
And so my supervisor was, that'sall up to you.
Like you, it's in your hands.
You can do what you want.
(37:10):
So I, when I went into myplacement, I didn't say anything
to the kids.
I didn't like.
Say, Oh, I'm miss Angela and Ihave a disability.
And kids have been asking melike, Oh, why do you walk like
that?
What's wrong with your legs?
And I would explain, and then itwas so cute to see kids.
(37:33):
I remember this one kid, I waswalking this group of kids back
to their class.
And one of the kids looked at myleg and asked me, Oh, what's
wrong with your legs?
Like, why do you walk like that?
And I said, Oh, I was born thatway.
And just talking to them andjust their face.
They were like, Oh my gosh,that's so cool.
(37:53):
Wow.
And I think that's so important.
Because maybe those kids neverknew about disability or, it's
something, and they're inspeech, they have IEPs.
And so I think it's just animportant conversation.
Yeah, and it's just an importantpart of representation too,
right?
Because I think that I, when Iwas growing up, at least, or,
(38:15):
years ago, it was always seen asoh, the disabled students are in
one room and we don't really seethem in school at all.
And just hearing their reactionis just so awesome.
It puts it into a situationwhere it's like, You are just
representing the disabled worldin such an amazing way and just
showing that you can really dowhatever you put your mind to,
no matter what professor inundergrad says.
(38:37):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And that too, there was anothercool moment in my school
internship where I was walkingback, I think I was walking back
from taking my kids back toclass.
And.
Just some kid outside looked atmy legs and then looked at me,
so I thought, okay, they'regoing to ask.
And they said, are you ateacher?
(38:58):
And I just said, yeah, I am.
I didn't explain no, I'm speech.
I just said, yeah, I'm ateacher.
And then they just looked at meand they smiled.
And so I'll never know what theywere smiling, but in my mind,
I'm like, they got to see adisabled person in that teaching
position.
And it's so important.
Exactly.
Disabled is no longer a dirtyword.
(39:19):
It never was, but we're makingsure that it's really not a
dirty word now because there areso many accommodations out there
now that can be given thatpeople can do whatever the heck
you want.
And honestly, like there's a lotof people call disabled people
call themselves like the greatlife hackers because we're able
(39:39):
to think of solutions.
And honestly, a lot of solutionsalso help people without
disabilities.
And so if we can think ofsolutions to get around ableist
barriers and stuff, that'sreally huge.
And I wish that people would seethe value in that more instead
(40:00):
of just pushing people away.
Because when you collaboratewith disabled people, like
there's a lot of.
Innovation there.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you guys are like problemsolvers, there's a problem.
I'm going to find a way thatwill allow me to do this.
And that's amazing.
Even tick tock like tick tock.
I know people have theiropinions about it, but I have
(40:21):
learned so much about thedisabled community about the
autism community about just somany different parts of life
where I'm like, wow, there areso many solutions that are being
created by, people withdisabilities that are going,
like you said, are going to helppeople without disabilities, are
going to help children withdisabilities, are going to help
people in the school system withdisabilities, in the
professional world, everything.
(40:42):
And that is where our society isgoing.
And that's what makes me happyto be on this earth.
Now there's a lot of other crazythings going on, but still I'm
just so happy that you're in aposition where you can chase
your dreams and, be the speechpathologist You needed when you
were younger and you're doingamazing work.
Thank you.
Yeah, and it's so cool to be inthe position to talk to I get
(41:06):
messages a lot from undergradsor first year grad students.
And it's really cool to be in aposition to say, this is how I
did things.
It's like writing a survivalguide in a way, like a how to
guide, and then sharing that.
Because now to me, it's okay, Igot through, so now I feel like
(41:28):
my job is to help everyone getthrough here's the door that I
opened.
Y'all can come on come in theparty's in here, let's go.
That's what it feels like.
It feels like, yeah, a house,like I bought a house and I'm
opening my door and I'm like,come in, y'all y'all can be in
here we can be in here.
And so it's a really coolexperience.
(41:48):
Yeah.
And you're doing such amazingthings.
Do you have a speech Instagramspecifically for that?
That's your next step.
I'll help you do that, because Ithink that, like you said,
opening that door to theInstagram world and all the
other SLP's there, you may eventalk to people who are in high
school still, in the positionthat you were, I want to be an
SLP, but a lot of people aretelling me I can't.
(42:11):
And you're like, heck yeah, youcan yeah.
Do you have any advice for kindof people who are listening who
have a disability that eitherare On the road to become an SLP
or already an SLP and just stillfeeling like they don't belong.
I would say stay true toyourself because I, it took me
so long to, when I was anundergrad, I thought.
(42:35):
You know that people's reactionsto me and my disability was a
reflection of myself likethere's something that I'm doing
wrong or maybe am I talkingabout my disability too much in
class?
Am I not talking about itenough?
And I think to just rememberthat the way people respond to
disability is not really yourproblem or your responsibility
(43:01):
to And get through our process.
And so I think that's something,and it's a really hard mindset
to get to it took me years.
But I think just rememberingstay true to yourself,
everyone's everyone has adifferent reason for coming into
this field and everyone's reasonfor wanting to be an SLP is
(43:22):
valid.
And so just sticking with that,remember, remembering your why
and why you want to do this andnot letting anyone stop you,
even though I know that's easiersaid than done.
But even just remembering that,that professor or that student
or anyone that's making you feelthat way.
That's not a reflection of you.
(43:43):
That's not like any indicationthat you're a bad person like
just keep doing you and do whatyou need to do.
If your journey or your way ofdoing things is not the way that
people without disabilities dostuff who cares, just do it and.
Do your own path.
And I think that would besomething that I like wish I
could go tell my undergrad self.
(44:03):
Yeah, the way that people areresponding to you is not because
of you.
It's absolutely because of themand whatever they're going
through in life and they're justportraying it on you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that point of advice.
And like you said, it is a loteasier said than done, but as
you're working through thatyou're going to get to a point
like Angie is now where she'sjust no one can tell me what I
(44:25):
can and cannot do.
You watch me become this SLP andyou watch me be really freaking
good at it too.
Yeah.
And I just, yeah, I'm just likeover here, like I it's like a
book of knowledge and I'm like,yeah, I know what I know now.
And I can share that.
Exactly.
Thank you so much.
This was an amazing conversationand I appreciate you coming on.
(44:46):
And I'm really proud of you andI'm really excited to get this
conversation going because Idon't think this should be the
last conversation that we have.
I would love to talk to you onceyou graduate or once you're done
what your plans are because Ifeel like you just have such a
beautiful brain full ofinformation and full of things
that you want to do to help.
SLPs with disabilities to helppeople with disabilities, just
(45:07):
the disability community ingeneral, and I'm so excited to
see what you're going to do.
I'm always here to help you andlet's do this.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me and then if anyone
listening like want support orresources or even wants to know
Facebook groups or wants to knowgroups of people that are also
disabled just reach out to meand I can send you everything I
(45:30):
haven't known.
She'll send you her book ofknowledge.
Yeah.
I'm gonna I'm gonna post yourInstagram on the below the
podcast so that people can joinquickly.
But yeah, thank you so much forjoining and we will see you next
time.
Thank you.
Hello everyone.
And thank you so much forjoining us on the what the
fricative podcast.
We have our lovely friend here,Angie Evanage, and she's going
to talk to us about veryimportant stuff here.
Angie's a self proclaimeddisability.
Activists and disabled graduatestudent who has some important
things to talk about with ustoday.
(00:20):
There's a lot of ableism thatgoes on within the world, but
also specifically in the worldof speech pathology that needs
to be spoken about.
So today we're going to talkabout that really important
conversation.
But before we get to all thatimportant stuff, Angie, thank
you so much for joining us onthis podcast.
Can you tell us a little bitabout who you are outside of the
speech pathology world?
(00:42):
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me.
Yeah, my name's Angie.
Let's see.
I'm a twin.
I have a twin sister that she'sa fraternal twin.
So she doesn't look like me.
And she actually has brown hair.
So we have different coloredhair.
So with that family is reallybig to me.
Community is really big to me.
(01:02):
I'm really close to my friendsand family.
So community is something I'msure I'll talk about later, too.
Community is something that'salways been super important to
me.
Besides that, I am pretty sassy.
I'm sassy.
I'm short.
I'm, like, this five foot,really sassy person.
I use my hands to talk a lot.
(01:23):
So that's...
about me.
I'm just a really big likecommunity person and people
person.
And yeah, that's awesome.
Even though you guys arefraternal, do you still have
twin telepathy?
I okay.
We get that question a lot.
And I think we do just becausewe will say the same thing, or
(01:44):
like we're thinking the samething.
And I feel like we can just lookat each other and we understand
like what we're trying to like,say, yeah.
That's so awesome.
I've always wondered what it'slike to have a twin.
I have a younger brother andwe're 14 months apart.
So we're almost Irish twins.
But same kind of thing.
Like your sister, I have curlyhair and I'm tan skin and he is
like very fair skin and hasstraight hair.
(02:06):
And when I tell people, Oh yeah,we're siblings.
They're like, Oh, from the samemom or dad.
I'm like, no, both.
We just aren't a super mixedrace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how we are too.
Like people think we're bestfriends, like they never guessed
that we're sisters.
And then when we tell them like,yeah, we're sisters, but we're
also like twins, like what?
That's so funny.
(02:26):
That's awesome.
I'm so glad that you have herand she has you.
So talking a little bit aboutspeech pathology.
I know you're in graduate schoolnow but how was your journey up
into kind of applying tograduate school?
Was speech pathology somethingthat you always knew you wanted
to do or at what point did thatkind of come into your career
path?
Yeah, so I knew I wanted to be aspeech therapist in high school.
(02:50):
I was born with cerebral palsy,which is a disability that
usually is caused by damage to adeveloping brain, and it impacts
like physical stuff.
So balance, motor coordination,things like that.
So growing up, I went to likespeech, occupational therapy,
(03:10):
and physical therapy.
So therapy was a really big partof my life growing up all the
way through high school.
And then I stopped, like Istopped speech right before high
school.
I stopped a couple other things.
But when I got into high school,I feel like that's when I
started learning more aboutdisability identity and how
(03:32):
other people.
seeing me as a disabled personbecause my disability is a
visible one.
So I feel like growing up, Ialways had a team, like I had my
IEP team around me.
And I feel like junior year ofhigh school was when everyone
(03:52):
was talking about what they weregoing to do for college, what
they were going to do after.
And my teachers and stuff neverreally asked me what I wanted to
do and I that's when I realizedI was pushed to the side in that
way.
All my friends, everyone elsewas like, had plans and stuff,
but no one really asked me andthen I remember the moment I
(04:14):
decided I wanted to be an SLPwas I was a junior in high
school and we had chemistry.
My chemistry class and theteacher for that class had us
like bringing these big books,like these like big textbooks to
class every single day.
And so for me, having CP, it wasreally hard for me to carry
(04:35):
them.
So when I would, and then Istarted.
Like the whole class realizedthat we never use them.
So this teacher wanted us to lugaround these really like big,
thick books, and we never usethem.
So all of us stopped bringingthem to class.
And then one day he like wentaround the room.
(04:56):
And said, I'm going to giveeveryone detention that does not
have their book.
And like, all of us gotdetention.
And I remember texting my momand telling her because she
picked me up after school.
I was like, yeah, pick me uplater because I have detention.
And she was like, for what?
And I said, oh, for because Ididn't read my chemistry
textbook.
And she was like, Angie, it's inyour IEP that you get a copy of
(05:21):
textbooks.
In each room, like each teacherhas to have a copy of textbooks
for you, because it's hard foryou to carry them with your
disability.
And I had no idea.
And the teachers didn't knoweither.
And at that point, then that'swhen I like send this email to
my counselor or someone, and Iexplained It's on the teachers
to, to meet the IEP, like not meto fit in to do what everyone
(05:46):
else is doing.
So that moment, like it's afunny story, but it's like that
moment really shifted mythinking more into advocacy.
And then I remember my whole IEPteam had a meeting about it and
at that time I was in speech.
And so I thought about who onthis team is missing that could
(06:07):
help with communication andadvocacy.
So then I thought of SLP andthat's in my mind when I
connected advocacy.
With speech and communication,and then I thought what who is
teaching disabled people how toadvocate for themselves?
Because if I never saidanything, or if people don't say
(06:28):
anything, they're going to get Isay, lost in the system.
But that's what I thought.
Of it.
So that's how I decided I wantedto be an SLP because I wanted to
work with disabled people inlike advocacy and communication.
Long story, but that's how I gotdecided I wanted to do it.
No, and I love that.
And I think that this whole ideathat disabled people shouldn't
(06:53):
don't deserve a spot in theworld of speech pathology and in
the world in general is such afrustrating.
statement that anyone can evermake.
Because people with any sort ofdisability, people with any sort
of trauma, have such a differentexperience when they're teaching
someone else about somethingthat they've already been
through.
It gives them so much insightinto, what's actually going on.
(07:14):
I've been through this, so I'mgoing to tell you all the great
things that have come out ofthis because I've already been
through this.
And I think that is just what weneed in this world of speech
pathology, diversity in allparts of the spectrum because as
someone who went into speech, Idon't have a disability, I think
that I have ADHD, I probably do,but but I did come in with
(07:35):
experience of my mom having tohave a speech therapist in the
hospital when she was sick, andI had the family part of it and
I go into each session, knowingwhat it's like to be on the
other side of just aprofessional spewing out all
these big words to you and you'dbe like, okay.
I'm just going to google it.
(07:55):
It's just that feeling ofknowing how it feels to be on
the other side.
So you treat just the world ofyour, just your clinical world
so much different.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And I feel like that's nottalked about, at least in The
environments that I've been in,it was never talked about or
celebrated to have any kind ofpersonal experience with speech
(08:16):
therapy, but I think it isimportant because we have
different insights.
Like you said, exactly.
And I'm sure we'll talk aboutlater about how.
You having a disability andbeing a professional in a
profession, like a professionalposition with your clients, just
make them see someone who's, youcan be successful and have a
disability.
You can be successful and havetrauma.
(08:37):
There's just so manyopportunities now for us to talk
about all these things openlyand just say so many people have
been going through thisprivately, feeling like they
can't talk to anyone.
But now, why don't we just talkabout it openly, so we can
really just talk to all thepeople who have been going
through this silently, and nowwe can talk about it together as
a community.
Yeah, I agree.
(08:57):
I think that's really importantto.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how was your applicationjourney to graduate school?
I can only imagine how that was.
So my story is a funny one.
Can I go back and talk aboutundergrad because I feel like
that.
Okay so having the background Idid when I decided I wanted to
(09:18):
be an SLP.
I thought.
In my mind, which is a fairassumption, I thought because
this is a field that works withdisabled people that me as a
disabled person would beaccepted generally and the
environments have to go in.
And that was not the case, likean undergrad in my first SLP
(09:38):
class, and a bunch of us thathad a disability and needed
accommodations.
Went up to our professor afterit was an anatomy class and at
this university, like we had towhen you enroll in the
disability office, you got likea paper that said, you have
accommodations and you wouldgive that to the professor and
(10:00):
this is pre COVID.
So we were in person and a bunchof us went up to this professor
gave them our papers and thenthey looked at us and pulled us.
To the side of the class in acircle, literally like in front
of everyone, and basically saidthat like this field is not
going to accommodate people withdisabilities.
(10:21):
So get out now.
And I just remember sittingthere I don't know if I just did
it process, or I just am so usedto like people telling me what I
can and can't do right so I, Iremember like the other people
were just.
I go what did you say?
And I was just sitting there.
And then I think we just walkedaway.
(10:41):
I forgot.
And then I remembered that lateron, like processing that and I'm
like, Oh, that's what they toldus.
Like they told us that we can'tbe an SLP.
And that started thisUnfortunately, I feel like that
was the start of justdiscrimination in my entire
(11:02):
undergraduate experience.
And so with that, why I wantedto talk about that is I feel
like something to that'simportant to talk about is, in
my undergrad program, they toldus a lot that you won't get into
any schools if you have Theytold us 3.8 will get you
waitlisted.
(11:22):
Yeah, 3.9 maybe and then it waslike 4.0.
So that was our range.
And so me like I had a lot ofprofessors that wouldn't
accommodate me.
And so that kind of puts me inthe back and I feel like I got a
lot of like it puts me behindpeople is what I felt like it's
(11:44):
what I'm trying to say.
And I had my grit.
I didn't have a 4.0.
I had a 3.6 GPA.
I feel like that's also nottalked about that much.
I know you talked about that onyour Instagram, which I
appreciate.
And I know a lot of people dotoo, but I did not have a 4.0.
I had a 3.6.
And so all my professors weretelling me you aren't going to
(12:05):
get in anywhere.
And that GPA is too low.
And so I applied anyways,because this is what I wanted to
do.
And I my personal statement, Ijust put a lot like it.
Basically, my personal statementwas like my story from
undergrad, high school, evenundergrad, like all of it.
(12:26):
And I applied to five schoolsand I got into four.
Yeah, which I feel like it'snot, I don't, I know you hear
stories of people like sayingthat they got into one or they
got waitlisted at one and I hadfriends that only got into one.
So I did not expect, especiallywith everyone.
(12:48):
Saying how, oh, you're not goingto get in if you don't have a 4
0 or if you have a 3 9 and thenpeople on top of that telling me
you're not going to get inbecause you have a disability.
And then I got into fourschools.
Yeah.
It is so crazy to me howundergraduate faculty members
feel the need to tell us what wecan and cannot do.
(13:10):
Yes, that's, that was wild to metoo because, y'all job is to
just teach us like you don't, Idon't like that.
Yeah, I just, it's wild to methat people think they can just
tell a student, Oh, this isn'tthe field for you.
Yeah, and you're exactly righttheir job is to teach us and
sometimes they don't even dothat.
(13:31):
No, they don't.
I'm like, it's.
Yeah, that, it absolutelyboggles my mind when, people who
are supposed to be in, aposition of our life that's
going to catapult us into a nextlike kind of educational level
of that subject are telling uslike, hey, you're not good
enough.
And, had you not been such astrong hearted individual and
(13:52):
have such a passion for speechpathology and knew this is
exactly what you want to do.
One little second of doubt couldhave caused you to not apply and
you could have been in acompletely different position
today.
just because of that one personwho decided that just because
they weren't confident in theirlife, they wanted to spread that
out onto you.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think about that all thetime.
If I didn't have a strongpassion for the field, or it was
(14:16):
just something that, I was justtaking classes towards and I
didn't know.
And someone told me that I wouldbe, Oh, okay.
They're probably right becausethey're the professor, so I'm
just going to change my major.
I think about that a lot too.
And I think professors, I don'tknow if they realize or they
know, and they don't care howmuch power and influence they
(14:37):
have over people where theycould literally get people out
and I know it happens persuadepeople to leave.
That could be amazing.
SLPs.
and really change our field.
Exactly.
And I think that, for a longtime, our graduate school in,
our graduate schools in theUnited States went along that
line of if you don't have, somesort of 3.
(14:59):
9 to 4.
0 GPA, like you, it's just not ago for you, don't even try.
But that was so long ago.
And I feel like there's so manynew graduate schools now, or so
many more graduate schools thatare learning how to accommodate
their students.
Yeah.
In different ways so thatthey're not only looking at GPA.
They're not only looking at GREscores because all of those just
numbers don't tell you muchabout four years of experience
(15:21):
that I had an undergrad like myfreshman year is completely
different from the person that Iwas my senior year.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And most people who go away toschool to like, people are what,
I don't know, 18 years old whenthey go to college, like my 18
year old self is completelydifferent than who I was junior
and senior year.
So I think that should happen ingraduate school.
And I'm just saying this, Idon't think it'll ever happen.
(15:43):
But I feel like they should justlook at the last 60 credits
because I was so much moreserious about college in My
junior and senior year, when Iknew that I wanted to be a
speech pathologist, when I knewI wanted to go to graduate
school, I had a purpose now.
And I wasn't just taking theselike math 101 when I'm not good
at math.
Yeah.
The most ran the most randomclasses.
Like I think I was taking likeit was cool though, but my like
(16:05):
sophomore year, I took like mathacross cultures and it was like
random classes like that.
Exactly.
And, I want to touch uponsomething that you mentioned
also, where you said thatthere's some professors that
didn't even accommodate you forthe accommodations that you
needed, and that is just sofrustrating to hear because
that's their legal job.
(16:25):
Their job is to accommodate you,to put you on the level playing
ground, just as everyone else,because that is what you
deserve.
Yeah.
And not only that, but it wasreally surprising because this
field works with disabledpeople.
So the fact that you don't wantto accommodate your student, I
always thought, do you treatyour clients like that?
(16:48):
I'm confused.
Yeah.
I thought that's literally ourjob is to accommodate, support,
and advocate for the people wework with.
And that should also extend touniversity students.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Our field is the foundation ofour field is built upon
advocacy, communication, andsupporting our clients.
(17:09):
And it boggles my mind that whenstudents ask for that advocacy,
students ask for thoseaccommodations, it's then looked
upon as oh, you're being lazy.
You're being lazy.
You're trying to make thingseasy for you.
Everyone else can do it.
So you can to like, no, I needthese accommodations.
Yeah.
And do I remember I got sofrustrated in undergrad because
(17:29):
I had a professor that gave meaccommodations, but gave me a
really hard time about it.
And then I was in their officehour and one of the
accommodations was because thiswas a professor that liked to do
that thing where they give outthe notes but it's like blank.
I don't know if you ever had aprofessor like that gives out
the notes, but some of them areblank.
(17:50):
So you have to come to class towrite them down.
And so for me, which I get theintent because they want you
there and listening.
I understand that.
But for me, it's really hardbecause it's hard for me to
write and to write super fast.
So I remember asking.
I don't remember exactly, but Ithink basically I wasn't able to
get.
(18:10):
The notes like as anaccommodation, I wasn't able to
get the filled out notes.
And then I was in an office hourand this professor said, Yeah, I
feel so bad for you because Iwould sit in the front.
And they said, Yeah, I feel sosorry for you because I see you
like struggling in class towrite the notes out.
And so in my head.
I thought, okay, thenaccommodate me struggling to
(18:34):
help me.
So I think that's something too.
I don't know.
It feels like that a lot of thetimes, even if that's not their
intent.
It feels, that it's sink or swimand the best people will be in
our field anyway.
We're not going to really helpyou along the way.
That's how it felt for me.
Yeah.
And it's scary to advocate foryourself.
(18:56):
Sometimes you have to putyourself in a situation or like
kind of the mentality say, okay,I know I need this.
I just need to ask for it.
And, it's really hard to ask forhelp sometimes.
And then where you're.
Shot down by people like yourprofessors who were just like,
no, thanks.
I see you struggling and it'sreally sad to watch, but I'm not
going to do anything about it.
Okay.
And then, again, going back tothe whole thing had you not, or
(19:17):
have you not been like such astrong hearted person who knows
exactly what they need and knowshow to ask for it?
You could have just been.
Totally embarrassed to then everask for accommodations for
yourself ever again.
Yeah, because I rememberthinking, okay, then do I need
to look a different way inclass?
Is it that obvious that I'mstruggling?
Do other people around me thinkthat, it's very it hurt my self
(19:41):
esteem in that way.
I don't know.
It was very, it made me moreself conscious.
Exactly.
And you honestly are just thereto do what everyone else is
doing.
Yeah, like I'm just here to getthe notes, listen to your
lecture, get the notes, and thenleave.
Yeah.
That's so hard.
But so you went, you applied tograduate school, you got into
(20:02):
four, which is amazing.
Oh, that's, I did want to goback to that.
Yes, 4.
0 GPA not realistic for mostpeople in undergrad.
If someone tells you that, just,Brush them off because I got in
with a 3.
2 GPA.
Yes.
I applied to eight schools.
I got into one and all I neededwas that one to take a chance on
me.
But if you know that you have apassion for speech pathology,
(20:25):
not everyone you meet is goingto be on your team.
Not everyone you meet is goingto be rooting for you.
You just got to walk past themand just know exactly what you
want.
It may take one.
Application round, it may taketwo, it may take four.
But, if you know that this iswhat you want to don't give up
on yourself.
No, and I think people sayingthat, oh, you need a certain
(20:48):
range.
I think that is a way to keeppeople out of her field.
Maybe I really don't know thereason.
That's my guess that it's a wayto keep people out of the field
or keep it where it's.
Just 4.
0, just people with 4.
0 GPAs, which is fine.
And I'm not getting on here andtrying to discredit anyone that
has a 4.
(21:09):
0.
But I think it's important toremember, too, that's like
academic work.
And when you go into gradschool, it's clinical work where
you're literally sitting infront of someone and working
with someone.
And so it's great if you have a4.
0 or really high GPA and you'regood at test taking.
That's great.
But then you also need to knowclinical skills.
(21:30):
And I think that's somethingthat I don't know.
I think that's something too,that we need to, I wish the
field would talk about more.
And I'm not saying that, Oh,people with 4.
0s don't have clinical skills,but it's so different.
Absolutely.
You need people skills.
To be a psychologist, bottomline.
And that's another thing I talkabout too within graduate
(21:51):
schools.
And I think that, yes, of coursewe need to show what our GPA is.
Yeah.
The GRE, I think, personally, isabsolutely pointless.
And it's just another form ofdiscrimination because not
everyone has the money or theresources to actually do test
prep.
So that puts people who don'thave that at a whole different
level, which is so weird.
But I think that interviews.
(22:13):
Are key to grad schoolapplications.
I think that every school shoulddo an interview because it gives
people the opportunity to say,okay, this is who I am on paper,
but this is who I am in reallife.
Because I was so much moredifferent person in real life,
and I was shown on my paper ormy kind of transcripts and stuff
but going back to GPA, like youhave people who are going post
(22:34):
bach to graduate school like 10years after they've already
graduated college, so now you'retrying to tell me that you're
going to judge these people ongrades from 10 years ago on how
well they could be a speechpathologist?
It just doesn't make any sense.
But let's go back to thinkingabout you.
So you got into four.
How did you decide which schoolto go to?
(22:54):
Because this is a thing too,when people get into more than
one school and they always saySam, how do you decide?
And I'm like, honestly.
You have to decide what schoolis best for you.
I always tell people, ignorewhat the statistics are and all
of that, because the statisticsmay not line up with what you
want.
For me, I wanted to go to aschool that had lots of support,
and lots of external, externshipexperiences.
(23:16):
I wanted the experiences.
And that's the school that Iwent to.
Yeah.
So for me, I have an interestingstory with this too.
So I got into my first gradschool March of 2021, like early
March.
And I remember thinking, becauseof my experience with undergrad,
(23:37):
I wanted to be very intentionalin picking a school that would
be accepting of me as a disabledperson, my accommodations, and
just not just tolerate mypresence in their program, but
actually accept it.
And so I got into my firstprogram and I was really excited
and I, and I thought, okay, Ineed to meet with someone from
(24:00):
the program to ask aboutaccommodations and start,
realistically, this is if I knowwhat I want to be intentional
and asking about these things Ineed to ask.
So I made an office hour withsomeone from this university
that I got into.
And I remember going on thezoom.
(24:22):
It was on zoom.
And I said, yeah, I want to askabout accommodations in your
clinic.
And they looked at me and saidwhat do you mean accommodations?
And I was like, oh, disabilityrelated accommodations.
And because I disclosed mydisability.
And talked about it in mypersonal statements.
I just assumed that theseprograms, especially ones that
(24:44):
accepted me, knew already that Iwas disabled.
So I was just, oh yeah, I'm justasking about accommodations.
And they said, for what?
And I'm like, oh, I havecerebral palsy.
I need accommodations.
I just want to talk to you aboutit.
And they looked at me and said.
Oh, we didn't know you had adisability.
And the way they said it likethey looked like scared like the
(25:06):
way their body language was.
And I just remember sittingthere, and I was at home because
it was in the pandemic.
And I remember later.
My mom was in the other room andshe said, I heard that person
say that, like that they didn'tknow that.
Sorry, I don't mean tointerrupt, but I'm sure your mom
(25:27):
with her mom, like she was readyto go into that room.
Yeah yeah, I think she was justshook and she was in another
room and then after she likemoved right in front of my door,
she was like, what the heck isgoing on?
And then, we were talking and itjust didn't really seem, it
really seemed to bother thisperson that I had a disability
(25:51):
and I was asking aboutaccommodations and the answers
were really short and a, Oh, Idon't know if that would work.
Just not really.
Validating at all.
And then they kept bringing up,Oh, we didn't know you had
cerebral palsy, but now that yousaid something we can tell.
Yeah.
(26:12):
And my mom heard that too.
And after, did that person saythat to you?
And I, yeah.
And I just, I don't know how Ireacted.
I think I just said thank youand then cut it off, but I was
like in shock because no one hasever said that to me.
That is wild.
(26:33):
And I'm so happy you can laughabout it now, but that is so
hurtful.
Yeah.
That is just, that, I cannotbelieve that those words came
out of someone who's in theposition of welcoming new
graduate students.
Yeah, exactly.
And in a very a shameful, Ithink something that I don't
(26:54):
like a lot that just makes memad in general is people think
that they can tell me how tofeel about my disability, and
that's very much what thisperson was doing, like
projecting their discomfort ontome.
And making me feel like it wasshameful that I had CP.
Yeah.
It's wait, I'm the one that hasa disability and you're looking
(27:14):
at me.
If there's something.
If that's wrong, like you're theone that accepted me into your
program.
Yeah, that's my personalstatement.
That was about me and thedisability that I have.
So where's the disconnect here?
Yeah.
And there was an interview forthat program.
It was a zoom interview, but Iremember talking in that
(27:39):
interview about, I thinksomething came up about how do
you work as A person in theclinic or something like that.
And then I think I mentionedsomething about, oh, my
disability forces me to beflexible.
And yeah, I talked about it,which is it's a wild and I don't
know, this brings up a reallyimportant point that, not.
(28:01):
It's really disheartening to geta denial from a graduate school,
I really is, but sometimes theyare truly a blessing in
disguise, because not everygraduate school is for every
single person, and I'm so gladthat you took the opportunity
to, talk to them, because hadyou not, Talk to them, it was
your first acceptance and youjust said, all right, this is
it.
I got accepted.
(28:21):
I'm going to go.
Your grad school experiencecould have been completely
different.
Yeah, and I think it's veryirresponsible then on their part
to if you really don't, if youreally didn't know.
Some like key things thatsomeone put in their statement
because that really could havebeen my only acceptance and then
(28:44):
you telling me basically, theydidn't come out and say we don't
want you in our program, butthey, the way that they made me
feel is very much like it.
There was no excitement oranything like that.
But if that was my only program,that would be my only decision.
So I think it's irresponsible onprograms parts of that, if
you're not really.
(29:05):
Being, I feel like we just putso much into our applications
and then to not, consider it, orI don't want to assume, but to
not consider it or something, Ithink that's just like off
putting.
Yeah, and it's just also notfair to you that people just
still have this view that peoplewith disabilities are less.
(29:28):
No, like that is not it like youare going in or you are in a
speech pathology program and youhave such different and great
like life skill experiences thatyou can talk upon that you can
share with your classmates sothat you can share with your
clients like people look at SLPstudents with a disability as a
(29:48):
disadvantage when they're somuch more an advantage than most
other people because you arecoming with the experience you
know what it feels like to beshot down by professors.
You know what it feels like tonot get the accommodations you
need.
So when you're in a situationwhere you're the SLP and your
client is not getting theaccommodations, I bet you, you
are going to go right to whoeveryou need to go to.
(30:11):
You better fix this right now.
And that is the passion thatlike.
So many other people can'tprovide.
And I think that's why we needto have this conversation out
loud, exactly.
So we got into graduate school.
You picked the one that you likefirst semester.
How was it?
It was a little different.
So I'm at San Francisco State.
(30:32):
And so when I started in 2021,we were still.
Pandemic.
So our first semester was gonnabe online.
But so that was a littledifferent and nerve wracking
starting a new program online.
But it was good.
I all the professors were reallysupportive.
It was a really supportiveenvironment.
(30:53):
I think something that I reallyliked about San Francisco State
and why it was one of theschools that I was really
interested in is it's reallycentered and focused on social
justice.
And that was, it's really.
Evident and obvious in thisprogram that all of our classes
we talk about equity and antidiscrimination like that's the
(31:15):
base of these classes already.
And then we just build on thetopics and yeah, it was really a
supportive environment, academicand class wise for me, clinic
was a little bit of a learningcurve because it was online, but
not only that, I think for me,just learning, yeah.
Leaning into what it means forme to be a disabled clinician,
(31:38):
how to ask for support and,like, how to ask for
accommodations and help.
Is something I had to learnalong the way.
That was hard in the beginningbeing a 1st time clinician, it
was hard for all of us, but thenon top of that.
When something went wrong,trying to tell myself, this
doesn't mean you can't be anSLP, you just have to think of a
(31:59):
different way to do it, and howto ask for accommodation so you
could do it that different way.
And do you feel like there weremany people, whether like on the
Instagram world or in yourschool or just in the world of
speech pathology in general thatyou can reach out to for advice
like that for like being adisabled clinician, probably not
many people, right?
No, I'm an undergrad.
(32:21):
I didn't really know anydisabled people that were also
SLPs, but then when the pandemichappened and we went on
lockdown, I remember just likegoing on Instagram and I guess
just like trying to find otherdisabled people and they aren't
out there.
But I think now people are morecomfortable with sharing their
(32:42):
story.
There's Facebook groups forSLP's with disabilities.
There's student organizationsnow that there's a lot of
resources out there that Ididn't know back in 2019 that
I'm a part of now.
So when I was going throughthat, I was able to like post on
a Facebook group and say, Hey,I'm really struggling with this.
It was.
(33:03):
An AAC clinic.
So for me, it was really hard tohold up like my iPad on the
screen and show because my handsget shaky.
And yeah, I was just asking,does anyone else experiences
anyone else have suggestions andpeople did and they were
helpful.
So I think that's.
That's why like I really lovecommunity because people have a
(33:26):
lot of wisdom and you can shareit and then help people,
especially if you find like acommunity that's like non
judgmental and just give me allthe questions you need.
And, if I have an answer I'llprovide it to you and I'm so
happy that you found a communitythat you can reach out to
because that just, it makes sucha difference.
It makes graduate school feel somuch less alone.
And sometimes when we go throughhappy parts of grad school, like
(33:50):
the bad grades and stuff likethat.
And you can just reach out topeople and say I got a bad
grade.
And it's okay, we all did atsome point in graduate school.
Like you are not going to fail.
You're still going to be asuccessful SLB.
You're still going to be great,but you reached the point of a
bad grade.
And I know exactly how thatfeels.
So speaking on kind of thecommunity and, being part of
groups that you feel welcomedin, you started a little group
(34:11):
yourself, didn't you?
Yeah.
So okay, so when we hadorientation for my program, I
remember my, one of theprofessors, Was saying that of
anyone wants to start aninfinity group in the program
for just, different groups ofpeople or shared interest or
(34:33):
whatever that is, you can.
And so I remember thinking, Oh,it'd be so cool to have.
A group of disabled students, sojust a meeting space for people
to come and talk and havesupport and to share a
community.
And so I reached out to thatprofessor with my idea to make
an affinity group for disabledstudents, and it would be.
(34:54):
Because everyone at thatorientation was undergrad and
graduate, so it would be for theundergrads and the grad
students.
And, yeah, my program was reallysupportive.
They were like, oh, yeah, okay,let's do it.
So we reached out to NYSSLHA andthen they helped us advertise
it.
And yeah, what it is, it'sbasically a meeting space.
We meet once a month.
And I start, we started it lastyear, February 2022.
(35:20):
Anyone can come, it's fordisabled undergrad and grad
students, but I don't ask anyonelike, oh, show me proof that
you're disabled.
Just come if you want to come.
And then we just shareresources.
We talk sometimes aboutdisability, sometimes not.
And it's been a really coolexperience in that way.
And it's cool too for me andother people to get to meet
(35:43):
undergrads and.
Then, I have, I'm in thatposition in a way to say, Hey,
if you're feeling discouraged,which I know people were.
I'm a grad student.
Other people here are gradstudents.
We're disabled.
And so if that can give you anykind of, hope, maybe or some
(36:03):
kind of representation likethat's all that really matters,
right?
Or just someone to talk to andsay I know exactly what you're
going through.
Here's my advice.
Or, I hear you.
I know exactly how that feels.
I'm here to support you.
Just hearing that sometimes it'sjust a form of comfort that we
didn't realize we needed.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So talking more about just likerepresentation and being a
(36:26):
disabled SLP, do you communicatewith your clients that you have
a disability?
Do you just keep it on the hush?
How do you go around doing that?
Yeah.
So when I started my, when Istarted my internships I was my
1st 1 was at a school.
It was in person full time allweek.
(36:48):
And I remember asking mysupervisor about Oh, how do you
think we should address mydisability or how you know what.
What do you think we should do?
Because that was my first timenavigating something like that.
And so my supervisor was, that'sall up to you.
Like you, it's in your hands.
You can do what you want.
(37:10):
So I, when I went into myplacement, I didn't say anything
to the kids.
I didn't like.
Say, Oh, I'm miss Angela and Ihave a disability.
And kids have been asking melike, Oh, why do you walk like
that?
What's wrong with your legs?
And I would explain, and then itwas so cute to see kids.
(37:33):
I remember this one kid, I waswalking this group of kids back
to their class.
And one of the kids looked at myleg and asked me, Oh, what's
wrong with your legs?
Like, why do you walk like that?
And I said, Oh, I was born thatway.
And just talking to them andjust their face.
They were like, Oh my gosh,that's so cool.
(37:53):
Wow.
And I think that's so important.
Because maybe those kids neverknew about disability or, it's
something, and they're inspeech, they have IEPs.
And so I think it's just animportant conversation.
Yeah, and it's just an importantpart of representation too,
right?
Because I think that I, when Iwas growing up, at least, or,
(38:15):
years ago, it was always seen asoh, the disabled students are in
one room and we don't really seethem in school at all.
And just hearing their reactionis just so awesome.
It puts it into a situationwhere it's like, You are just
representing the disabled worldin such an amazing way and just
showing that you can really dowhatever you put your mind to,
no matter what professor inundergrad says.
(38:37):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And that too, there was anothercool moment in my school
internship where I was walkingback, I think I was walking back
from taking my kids back toclass.
And.
Just some kid outside looked atmy legs and then looked at me,
so I thought, okay, they'regoing to ask.
And they said, are you ateacher?
(38:58):
And I just said, yeah, I am.
I didn't explain no, I'm speech.
I just said, yeah, I'm ateacher.
And then they just looked at meand they smiled.
And so I'll never know what theywere smiling, but in my mind,
I'm like, they got to see adisabled person in that teaching
position.
And it's so important.
Exactly.
Disabled is no longer a dirtyword.
(39:19):
It never was, but we're makingsure that it's really not a
dirty word now because there areso many accommodations out there
now that can be given thatpeople can do whatever the heck
you want.
And honestly, like there's a lotof people call disabled people
call themselves like the greatlife hackers because we're able
(39:39):
to think of solutions.
And honestly, a lot of solutionsalso help people without
disabilities.
And so if we can think ofsolutions to get around ableist
barriers and stuff, that'sreally huge.
And I wish that people would seethe value in that more instead
(40:00):
of just pushing people away.
Because when you collaboratewith disabled people, like
there's a lot of.
Innovation there.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you guys are like problemsolvers, there's a problem.
I'm going to find a way thatwill allow me to do this.
And that's amazing.
Even tick tock like tick tock.
I know people have theiropinions about it, but I have
(40:21):
learned so much about thedisabled community about the
autism community about just somany different parts of life
where I'm like, wow, there areso many solutions that are being
created by, people withdisabilities that are going,
like you said, are going to helppeople without disabilities, are
going to help children withdisabilities, are going to help
people in the school system withdisabilities, in the
professional world, everything.
(40:42):
And that is where our society isgoing.
And that's what makes me happyto be on this earth.
Now there's a lot of other crazythings going on, but still I'm
just so happy that you're in aposition where you can chase
your dreams and, be the speechpathologist You needed when you
were younger and you're doingamazing work.
Thank you.
Yeah, and it's so cool to be inthe position to talk to I get
(41:06):
messages a lot from undergradsor first year grad students.
And it's really cool to be in aposition to say, this is how I
did things.
It's like writing a survivalguide in a way, like a how to
guide, and then sharing that.
Because now to me, it's okay, Igot through, so now I feel like
(41:28):
my job is to help everyone getthrough here's the door that I
opened.
Y'all can come on come in theparty's in here, let's go.
That's what it feels like.
It feels like, yeah, a house,like I bought a house and I'm
opening my door and I'm like,come in, y'all y'all can be in
here we can be in here.
And so it's a really coolexperience.
(41:48):
Yeah.
And you're doing such amazingthings.
Do you have a speech Instagramspecifically for that?
That's your next step.
I'll help you do that, because Ithink that, like you said,
opening that door to theInstagram world and all the
other SLP's there, you may eventalk to people who are in high
school still, in the positionthat you were, I want to be an
SLP, but a lot of people aretelling me I can't.
(42:11):
And you're like, heck yeah, youcan yeah.
Do you have any advice for kindof people who are listening who
have a disability that eitherare On the road to become an SLP
or already an SLP and just stillfeeling like they don't belong.
I would say stay true toyourself because I, it took me
so long to, when I was anundergrad, I thought.
(42:35):
You know that people's reactionsto me and my disability was a
reflection of myself likethere's something that I'm doing
wrong or maybe am I talkingabout my disability too much in
class?
Am I not talking about itenough?
And I think to just rememberthat the way people respond to
disability is not really yourproblem or your responsibility
(43:01):
to And get through our process.
And so I think that's something,and it's a really hard mindset
to get to it took me years.
But I think just rememberingstay true to yourself,
everyone's everyone has adifferent reason for coming into
this field and everyone's reasonfor wanting to be an SLP is
(43:22):
valid.
And so just sticking with that,remember, remembering your why
and why you want to do this andnot letting anyone stop you,
even though I know that's easiersaid than done.
But even just remembering that,that professor or that student
or anyone that's making you feelthat way.
That's not a reflection of you.
(43:43):
That's not like any indicationthat you're a bad person like
just keep doing you and do whatyou need to do.
If your journey or your way ofdoing things is not the way that
people without disabilities dostuff who cares, just do it and.
Do your own path.
And I think that would besomething that I like wish I
could go tell my undergrad self.
(44:03):
Yeah, the way that people areresponding to you is not because
of you.
It's absolutely because of themand whatever they're going
through in life and they're justportraying it on you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that point of advice.
And like you said, it is a loteasier said than done, but as
you're working through thatyou're going to get to a point
like Angie is now where she'sjust no one can tell me what I
(44:25):
can and cannot do.
You watch me become this SLP andyou watch me be really freaking
good at it too.
Yeah.
And I just, yeah, I'm just likeover here, like I it's like a
book of knowledge and I'm like,yeah, I know what I know now.
And I can share that.
Exactly.
Thank you so much.
This was an amazing conversationand I appreciate you coming on.
(44:46):
And I'm really proud of you andI'm really excited to get this
conversation going because Idon't think this should be the
last conversation that we have.
I would love to talk to you onceyou graduate or once you're done
what your plans are because Ifeel like you just have such a
beautiful brain full ofinformation and full of things
that you want to do to help.
SLPs with disabilities to helppeople with disabilities, just
(45:07):
the disability community ingeneral, and I'm so excited to
see what you're going to do.
I'm always here to help you andlet's do this.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me and then if anyone
listening like want support orresources or even wants to know
Facebook groups or wants to knowgroups of people that are also
disabled just reach out to meand I can send you everything I
(45:30):
haven't known.
She'll send you her book ofknowledge.
Yeah.
I'm gonna I'm gonna post yourInstagram on the below the
podcast so that people can joinquickly.
But yeah, thank you so much forjoining and we will see you next
time.
Thank you.
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