Be Heard: How to Advocate for Yourself as a Patient

Be Heard: How Advocate for Yourself as a Patient

Featuring: Elle Simone Scott, Celebrity Chef and Ovarian Cancer Survivor panelists Dr. Leslie Boyd, Gynecologic Oncologist, NYU Langone  Perlmutter Cancer Center and Dr. Lindsay Kuroki, Gynecologic Oncologist, Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine

To learn more about gynecologic health, visit tinaswish.org/whattoknow. 

tinaswish.org/whattoknow

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to What To Know Down Below by Tina's Wish.
We're here to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you
need to advocate for your owngynecologic health. Knowledge
is power, and we encourageeveryone to join us in learning
more about what you need toknow down below.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi everyone. My name is El Simone Scott. I'm
executive editor and foodstylist at America's Test
Kitchen and also an ovariancancer thriver. For those of
you who are new here, Tina'sWish is dedicated to funding
groundbreaking research for theearly detection and prevention
of ovarian cancer, as well aseducating women about their
gynecologic health. This is aninclusive journey, and we're

(00:52):
honored to have all of you herewith us. Before I welcome our
amazing panelists, I wanted toshare more about my own journey
and why this program is soimportant to me. I was
diagnosed in 2016 with ovariancancer for at least two years.
Prior to that, I wasexperiencing a lot of pain and

(01:12):
a lot of discomfort, andexperienced also two
misdiagnoses . The only reasonI have survived this long is
because I was a fierce advocatefor myself and would not relent
unless I got the answers thatmade sense to me. And that's
when I got in 2016 atDana-Farber Cancer Center. Now
I'm pleased to welcome andintroduce our panelist. We have

(01:36):
Dr. Leslie Boyd, a gynecologiconcologist and director of
gynecologic oncology at NYULangone's Pearl Mutter Center.
We also have Dr. Lindsay Roki ,a gynecologic oncologist and
associate fellowship directorof gynecologic oncology at
Washington University. I'mexcited to have both of you

(01:58):
here. Dr. Boyd, let's startwith you. I know you heard
Tina's wish was covering thistopic. You were eager to speak.
Why are you passionate aboutself-advocacy and how would you
define self-advocacy?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Hi , thanks for the great question. Um, I do feel
passionate about these issues,so I was very excited to be
here today and I wanna thankthe Tina's wish team again for
inviting me. Um, I thinkself-advocacy has a lot of
different meanings to differentpeople, but the way I think
about it is patients need to bein control of their own
healthcare . And soself-advocacy means being

(02:37):
confident enough to advocatefor , um, what they need to
maximize their own health andfor themselves really, and
often for their families.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Very true, very true. Dr. Roki , do you have
anything to add and , and whyare you passionate about this
topic?

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah, thank you. I really think women need to
understand they have , uh, avoice and that voice is
valuable. And one of themeaningful things about this
opportunity to talk today is tohelp shed light on how we can
allow individuals , um, toengage in our healthcare teams

(03:16):
so that together we could helpmake best decisions on behalf
of our patients.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Mm-hmm . I think I've grew up feeling
like having conversations aboutour bodies as women was
slightly taboo. You know, itwas almost something that you
only spoke about in, in likecompany, right? With other
women. And I don't think thatthat left us feeling very
empowered to go into , um, adoctor's office or a hospital

(03:45):
and say how exactly we'refeeling. So , um, I'm , I'm
very excited to have thisconversation, but I think the
alternative to that though isthat women feel often empowered
in many other spaces, but notso much so when it comes to
healthcare. So I'm excited tohear what you all have to say
about this today. Dr. Boyd. Howcan women, not just those

(04:06):
facing cancer, educatethemselves in relation to their
gynecologic health and in turnbecome better advocates for
their health ?

Speaker 3 (04:15):
That's a really good question. I , I think, oh , it
goes a little bit back to whatyou were talking about, is that
we have to be more comfortablewith our own bodies. And and
that starts from, from things,you know, really early on in
our, in our upbringing, right?
Not everyone is comfortableeven thinking about gynecologic

(04:35):
organs, right? So at thebeginning of all of my , uh,
you know, my discussions withmy patients, I, I bring kind of
a, a basic visual guide, andI'm always amazed at, at how
many, you know , educated,smart women are really not just
not aware of our , their ownanatomy, right? And so, you

(04:56):
know, we are in a, in a such,in an information world now,
and so there are any number ofways to just Google what's
going on, right? And I thinkpart of it is just getting over
that sense of hesitancy , um,and kind of prudishness that
some of us are brought up with,right? That we don't talk about

(05:16):
this, but if we can't talkabout this to ourselves, kind
of behind closed doors and withour friends, you know, our
girlfriends, then we'recertainly not gonna be
comfortable talking about itwith our physicians
potentially. So I think itstarts there. I think we need
to get more comfortable talkingabout GYN cancer and, and GYN
issues, right? And I think itgoes beyond, you know, we're

(05:38):
used to talking about ourperiods, but it goes well
beyond that, right? So I thinkwe just have to be com more
comfortable with our bodies.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Um, organs are not something that, as an
individual you would know wherethey are. You might not know
when you're getting an examdone, if , um, people can feel
them or not. And so I think oneof the interesting ways that
people can learn more abouttheir bodies , um, and to start

(06:09):
speaking freely about , um,their vaginas, the cervix, the
uterus, the ovaries, thefallopian tubes, it's like when
you are getting an exam done,just like as if you were
getting your breast exam doneto learn about these tissues,
to learn what it feels likewhen someone is touching the
cervix, or , um, to, honestly,a lot of times for our

(06:34):
adolescent and pediatricgynecology patients , um, I was
trained by a really amazingmentor who would bring out a
mirror and show them exactlywhat the areas that we were
going to examine together. Soit's not threatening. Um, and I
think doing that in togetherwith your physician can be very

(06:56):
enlightening because that's anopportunity where you can ask
questions about, you know,organs and tissues that you
just normally wouldn't. It'snot common sense to know.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Ah , so true.
Hopefully we're, we're bringingthrough another generation of
more confident, comfortableyoung women , um, who will lead
that charge. Um, Dr. Roki , Iknow you see patients who are
facing a cancer diagnosis, butwhat important questions do you
think all women should beasking their gynecologist or

(07:30):
internist at their routinevisits?

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, you know,
oftentimes patients, they mightjust be seeing them as a
scheduled, you know, annualexam. So one opportunity in a
year to have face-to-face timewith their physician . So I
think it's an opportunity toask, actually at the very start

(07:56):
of the conversation , um, anyproblems or any symptoms, any
concerns that they , uh, may beexperiencing that are new from
their baseline. Because I thinkoftentimes, you know, patients
are coming in and expectingmaybe the physician to like,
lead the discussion or, orthey're expecting that the

(08:18):
physician has an agenda alreadylined up. And to make sure we
prioritize what patients , um,need to , um, tell us their
concerns. A lot of times we askthem to write it on a piece of
paper, but it might just be aquick glance and then, you
know, a missed opportunity. SoI would say first and foremost
, um, you know, ask about like,what are we gonna be doing

(08:41):
today? But then, you know,speak up and say, one of the
things that I'd like to talkabout is this new problem I'm
having, and I'm really worriedabout it, so that the physician
could then make sure there'senough time allotted for that ,
um, conversation to evolve. Ithink the other thing , um,

(09:01):
that's really important is justa simple question of like, what
can I do to improve my health?
Sometimes we don't even know ,um, what's expected of us. And
I think asking those questions,which sound very basic, could
be an opportunity to initiatethe conversation and gain
advice from the physician , um,about what they perceive are

(09:21):
their risk factors availablescreening , um, that they're
eligible for , um, to reducetheir risks and to improve ,
um, their lives.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Wow. You know, throughout my cancel journey, I
got some good advice, right?
One, one was, if you experienceanything for more than two
weeks, you should mention it toyour doctor, right? That's
something that if, if I wasnever told, I probably would
not have thought of, but I alsoknow that sometimes when we
come in, we we're dealing withso many different side effects

(09:56):
from so many different things.
We don't know, like what'sproblematic versus what's
natural. And sometimes we dofeel, we feel silly like, am I
being redundant? Am Icomplaining about something
that's small or is that, is itsmall? You know? And then I
know I tend to think of likethe grand scheme. I'm like,

(10:18):
well, I mean, I'm certainly notin as bad a position or as I
was a year ago, or, you know,things could be worse. Maybe I
shouldn't be complaining aboutthis little thing. So it's very
comforting to hear you bothsay, you know, that as our care
providers, you want us to speakup more and you want us to even

(10:39):
say the little things, even ifit feels little to us. That is
very, very comforting. I do itanyway. I'm pretty sure I
bombarded my team with all thelittle , like, my toe has been
hurting for seven days, . So, you know, I , I don't
miss a beat with them. I letyou know, but I have, I've
always been a very fierceadvocate. I was raised to
always advocate for myself inevery way. So I , you know, I

(11:01):
recognize everyone doesn't havethat privilege. And so I wanna
say from both sides, thank youfor giving us that green light
to do so. Um, and , and thisquestion is kind of a second
part to that first question,but what can women do if they
go to their doctor and do notfeel they're being heard and or
that they're concerns are notbeing taken seriously? I was

(11:23):
misdiagnosed twice. What wouldyou recommend to someone
possibly having this experienceor any other that is related?

Speaker 4 (11:32):
You know, as a GY oncologist, it's , um, very
likely that I might be thethird or fourth physician that
this patient is seen. And Ithink in part of that, there's
a lot of relief in finallyfinding a specialist who will
then take them on as a patientand gain more trust , um, to

(11:55):
develop their management , um,for cancer. But I also think
it's such an overwhelmingfeeling, and there's , um,
oftentimes I think this , thescenario you paint is very
common. That there's maybe ,um, an opportunity where the

(12:15):
patient could bring a supportperson because not everything ,
um, is gonna be displayed in away that would just make sense
in that moment. Maybe to have asupport person there, a friend,
a family member , um, someonethat would be reliable and
supportive to maybe ask aquestion , um, when, you know,

(12:40):
patients are feelingoverwhelmed. And I think the
other thing is that it'sexpected that we can't cover
everything. And we, in , Iwould suggest like writing
things down even after, andthen even if you didn't have a
support person with you, thenasking for another appointment,
asking for more time. Because Ithink oftentimes it's a matter

(13:01):
of making sure ourcommunication is, is as clear
as it can be. But if at the endof the day you give it a try,
it all boils down to trust. AndI think, you know, one's size
doesn't fit all. And I think ifyou really don't feel that gut
feeling of trust with yourphysician team , um, then it's

(13:22):
also reasonable to get anotheropinion as well.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, thank you.
I'm, I'm glad you said thatbecause that , that kind of
rolls right into my very nextquestion for you, Dr. Boyd. Um,
at the time of a gynecologiccancer diagnosis, what
questions should a patient beasking and, and how can
patients learn more about theirdiagnosis from reliable
sources, especially with allthe misinformation on the

(13:47):
internet, and sometimes evenfrom well-meaning friends, you
know, like, what questionsshould we be asking and what
sources should we be seekingfor

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Answers ? Yes. So , um, again, great, great
question. This also goes backto what Dr. Roki said, by all
means, when you are going in tospeak to your physician about a
new cancer diagnosis, pleasebring a friend or a family
member for support, becausethere's so much information
that needs to be imparted, andit's really likely that you'll

(14:15):
be overwhelmed. You know, we,we know it's physicians. As
soon as we say the word cancer,pretty much everything out else
gets tuned out. And, and it'sreally hard to focus because,
you know, your, your brain juststarts spinning away , uh,
completely, understandably so,please bring a friend. Um,
there is so much to, to findout what is the stage of the

(14:36):
cancer , um, what are thegrades of the cells? Um, what
specific cancer type is it ,uh, what's the pri primary
treatment that you suggest? Arethere alternatives to this? Um,
eventually you're gonna wannahear about prognosis, like,
how, how am I going to do, howis this going to affect my
life? But, but you may not beready for that much information

(14:58):
at , at the initial , uh,discussion. Um, there are good
, um, excellent websitesactually available. Um, the
American Cancer Society keepsan updated website that I often
refer patients to , um, theNational Institutes of Health,
PDQ also is an excellentresource , um, re up to date

(15:24):
and reliable. I, I cautioneveryone about randomly
googling on the internet, and Iremind them that the internet
is for people who are reallyhappy and really sad. ,
It's a bit of anoversimplification, but most
people are kind of , it's kindof in the middle, are just kind

(15:45):
of going on with their ownlife, and they don't have time
to post as much. Right? So, soyou're often getting extremes
of , of the, of the situations.
And that may not be helpful.
And in, in regards to,well-meaning friends, you know,
everyone knows someone who hadstage four B cancer and it was

(16:05):
miracle cured by sunlight, youknow, I mean, I'm , I'm being
facetious, but, but, but we'veall heard this and I think
people, people want to behelpful, but they are rarely,
it's say , not everyone in yourcircle is capable of true
empathy. And so, one thing Itell my patients all the time

(16:26):
is figure out who you need tokeep in your circle and then
designate one of those peoplefor all the others, right? And
you tell them, you know, so, soyou can't, 'cause you , you
don't want to be the clearinghouse of misinformation. It's
not, it's not your job. Andyou've got better things to do
in this really challengingtime. So, so, absolutely . So

(16:48):
I, I try to manage that fromthe beginning because it , it ,
it becomes a significant , uh,source of distress for a lot of
my patients.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
It does. I've, I mean, I've learned not to go
down the Google MD rabbit hole, um, but I did , uh, join some
support groups. Um , theNational Ovarian Cancer
Coalition is a group that I'm a, a huge , um, supporter of,
and also volunteer, right?
Volunteerism always feels verynice because you get to be with

(17:19):
people who share yourexperiences , um, and so many
others. But , uh, I definitelyhave found , um, getting in
touch with support groups hasbeen helpful for not only my
emotional health, but myphysical health. There are lots
of resources behind thosegroups. They offer meals that
can be delivered to your home.
Um, care bags that can go withyou to treatment, someone who

(17:42):
can just support you and talkyou through. It's amazing. I
think getting support is alwaysreally good. And it also helps
when your wellbeing friends,well-meaning friends, say
things that are kind of alittle off, you take it a
little lighter 'cause you, youhave a better source, it
doesn't really throw you off.
So , um, that's, that's reallygreat. Thank you so much for
that. Um, Dr. Roki , I wannaask you , um, someone facing a

(18:07):
gynecologic cancer or otherlife-threatening disease can be
experiencing a very scary time.
What advice do you give yourpatients as they begin their
treatment journey and decisionmaking ?

Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, you know, I think , um, you sort of nailed
the key word of that this is ajourney. It, it certainly is a
life-changing , um, not asprint. It's more of a
marathon. And I first andforemost tell my patients that

(18:39):
I'm in it, I'm in it with them.
Um, but I certainly acknowledgethat it is a stressful time.
And sometimes we'll be facedwith decisions that might not
have an obvious right answer,but the right answer would be
what is best for the patient?
And so , um, I think especiallythose , um, patients that I

(19:03):
feel like are really struggling, um, to grasp kind of even
next steps and are having a lotof anxiety and fear about going
through this journey with me.
Um, I really start by justtaking a step back and just
acknowledging everything thatthey've been through up until

(19:24):
this point. 'cause it hasn'tbeen easy and it's been all
consolidated and probably , um,on the order of, you know,
several months that all thisworkup has been done. Um, but
acknowledging three importanttime points that I believe
bring on the most stress. Andthe first is when they have
already , um, first heard aboutthere may be the possibility of

(19:47):
cancer, and they're goingthrough the whole workup of
testing and imaging biopsieseven. Um, and just that wait
time to get an answer is reallystressful. The second time that
I think really hits hard forpatients is that once they have
the diagnosis and then they'reright about to start
treatments, just theanticipation of like, am I

(20:10):
gonna feel okay, am I gonnacome out of this? Okay , um,
what does the day to day looklike for me? What impact does
it have on my job, my family?
Um, and just the, the amountof, you know, mental capacity
to be able to put one foot infront of the other I think is
very hard when , when peoplestart treatments. And then

(20:32):
ironically, that third pointthat I , um, really emphasize
for patients , uh, is actuallywhen they're done with
treatment. And then for manythat we're able to celebrate
and say that their scan isclean and they have no evidence
of cancer, and they , um,transition into survivorship.

(20:55):
That I think is also a really ,um, ironic time when people
feel like they should be soexcited and really happy. And
in fact, they might be veryscared. And , um, you know,
appointments tend to get spacedout at that time. You don't
have that consistency in seeingyour oncologist. Um, so right

(21:17):
at the beginning, I really tryto establish trust, let the, my
patients know I'm in it withthem through this journey. But
that I'll always be honest withthem. I will be honest with
them when we're gaining resultsthat we hope to gain , um,
through treatments. But Ialways tell them at the
beginning, I will be honestwith them also, when I think ,

(21:38):
um, outcomes are not as what wehad hoped for, and that we need
to take a step back and thinkabout the goals of our care
together.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
That's a very honest , um, answer. Uh , Dr. Roki ,
thank you for that. And we, weappreciate , um, the
thoughtfulness and , and howyou approach our care and every
step that we go through alongthe way, that was very
intricate and much appreciated.
Thank you so much, Dr. Boyd,one more question for you. When

(22:11):
do you think women should lookfor when selecting a
gynecologist? And if a woman isdiagnosed with cancer, what
qualities do you think sheshould look for in a
gynecologic oncologist?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Alright . Okay. Um, so I think you should be it
when you're looking for agynecologist, you know, these
are qualities you want in , inyour general practitioner as
well. So first and foremost, Iwould suggest that people look
at , um, finding a boardcertified gynecologist, right?

(22:46):
So there are minimum standardsset up by , um, the College of
Obstetrics and gynecology. Andif you know that your
gynecologist is board certified, then they meet those minimum
standards, right ? And that'sin terms of clinical knowledge
, um, and ethics actually. Sothat's a good first step. It's
just the first step after that,I would look for

(23:08):
recommendations from friendsand from your general
practitioner, and then you'regoing to look for the right
fit. So again, things that wewere talking about earlier, you
wanna make sure someone haskind of the clinical chops to
take care of you , um, but alsois inclined to listen, right?
So finding someone who's goingto listen to you to take your,

(23:30):
all of your issues seriously ,um, and to really spend the
time you need. So, not alwayseasy to find, but certainly
worth, worth looking for. Iwill say they , they , they've
done studies those , um, Googleand Yelp reviews are actually
mm-hmm . Oftennot far off. So you can use

(23:50):
those for , you know, as afirst pass, right ? If you see
somebody with one star, that'sprobably not good, right?
probably not . So , um,and then if you have cancer, a
gynecologic cancer, it isreally important to look for a
gynecologic oncologist. Sogynecologic oncologists have
specific training for womenwith GYN cancers that involves

(24:12):
surgical training as well astraining in the chemotherapy re
required for treating thesediseases. So finding a
gynecologic oncologist shouldbe relatively easy in major
urban center centers. It's abit harder in rural areas. Um,
again, you want similarqualities in a gynecologic

(24:33):
oncologist, we, you know, weare also board certified .
Again, we're providing minimumstandards and kind of what we
do. And then, and then afterthat, really want someone with
who's the right fit. Um, and,and you are , you are usually
referred to a g oncologist byeither your general
gynecologist or by your primarydoctor . So you can ask them,

(24:55):
you know , if they say, allright , you can look, go to
these three people, say to them, Hey, you know, me, all these
three people, who do you thinkis the right fit for me? And
kind of try to tailor it fromthat. We all also have websites
and , and , and other ways thatyou can try to get to know us
in a, in a kind of quick way.
And I , you know, thankfully myinstitution has a video that I

(25:19):
shot actually, and I'm, I'msurprised at how often a new
patient will say to me, oh, Isaw your video and I knew we
would get on, which, and I ,you know, you knew you were , I
hated shooting the video. Itwas the most awkward thing
ever, but, but it worked,right? So it just, anything
that can give you a sense ofwhat someone's really like,
just so that you, you know ,you have a sense of is this

(25:40):
someone I'm gonna be able tobond with in this major event
in my life?

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah. I was referred to my , um, gynecologic
oncologist from mygynecologist. They went to ,
um, Harvard together, and I ,either she was his mentor or he
was her mentor, but they hadvery close, close working
relationship, and she feltextremely confident. And , um,
that was actually good for morethan just having a good

(26:08):
referral. But it also helped myprocess to happen more quickly.
You know, I didn't wait a lotof time between , um, having a
a , an ultrasound and knowingthat I had a cancer that had ca
I had a , a cyst that hadcancerous characteristics and
then seeing the oncologist thatliterally was less than 15

(26:29):
days. So , um, I was reallypleased with that. And , uh, I
use doc , doc , I use , youknow, all the, the other apps
where I can read reviews, youknow, like, I think a lot of
it's lost on a lot of people.
You don't have to take the veryfirst physician that's in the,
in the catalog that comes fromyour insurance provider. You

(26:51):
can do your own research, youcan ask friends. And I actually
ended up finding mygynecologist through my
coworkers at my brand new job ,uh, when I moved here to
Boston. And , um, I wassearching at that time before I
knew , uh, that I was going tobe , um, dealing with ovarian
cancer. I wanted a doctor whospecialized in women who were

(27:15):
over 40 who wanted to havechildren. So I based it upon my
goals, you know , like what Iwanted for my life. And , and
that was also , um, veryhelpful.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
What , can I one more point, el before we move
on. Um, I would make sure thatwhoever you decide to go with,
make sure that they have enoughexperience in whatever it is
you are you need. So, forexample, if you need ovarian
cancer surgery, make sure thatthat's something that they're
comfortable with and that theydo often enough, because volume

(27:45):
does matter.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yes, it does. That's excellent advice. Thank you so
much , uh, both of you, forreally answering these
questions , um, so deeply andso thoroughly for us. I think
right now we are gonna , we'regonna take some questions from
the audience. Uh, they've beencoming in swiftly, so I have a
couple here already. Um, thefirst question is, what do you

(28:09):
do if a doctor dissuades youfrom seeking a second opinion?
What if we make them mad? Howdo we, what do we do?

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah. You know, I, I personally think that's a
pretty big red flag. So ifsomebody is really, again, if
someone's looking for a fourthand fifth opinion, then to me
that's, that's, that's a formof kind of denial and a wasting
time. But, but a second opinionis completely reasonable. Um,
and anyone who's really makingyou feel uncomfortable about

(28:42):
getting one i that , that would, that would make me wanna get
one a lot faster. Yeah, me too. I will say that I, I
do feel for patients who aregeographically restricted,
right? So I happen to practicein New York, there are many geo
wonderful Joann oncologistshere, so people can take their
pick. But if you live in arural area and you don't have a

(29:04):
choice, well then, you know,second opinion isn't the
answer. It's really advocatingmore forcefully for yourself in
the practice that you're in andbeing honest with your provider
and saying, Hey, you know, I'mnot feeling heard in this
space. And I will say that mostphysicians, just like most
human beings, when you pointout in an , you know, a , a

(29:28):
need respond with empathy,right? And I would hope that a
physician would be the same,right? So if you're not getting
what you need from your doctorand you don't have a choice and
must stay there, then go tothem in an honest, open way.
Explain what you need, and Isuspect you will get back , um,
more than you expected.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
I think that's great advice. And , um, in the , in
the culinary world, we say toomany cooks spoil the pot. And
in this case, too manyoncologists make life sweeter.
So , we'll go withthat. Alright , one last
question really quickly. Howcan caregivers be better
advocates for their loved ones?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
I really like that question. Um, I , I , I think
caregivers, you know , and I I, caregivers are so important
to our patients' journeys andlives. And so I'm so thankful,
you know, for, you know, I, Iconsider this a team. You know,
we are a team together, andit's not just me and the

(30:32):
patient, but it's certainlytheir family and their support.
Um, but you know, the, the one, one thing that I often see is
that sometimes the teammembers, instead of just
listening, they're trying to,they , they wanna fix
everything and not everythingcan be fixed. And, and that's,

(30:53):
you know, one of the hardestparts of all of this. And I
think being able to reallylisten is, is priceless, and
it's not easy. But if they canbe present with their loved one
and really listen to what theyneed , um, that's, that's kind

(31:15):
of the most important gift theycan give.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Wonderful. That was, that's really, really great
advice to caregivers and, and ,uh, lots of hugs. We appreciate
those, those hugs. Um, anddon't make it about you. That's
my other really solid advice,right? Don't make it about you.
Uh, well now it's time to wrapup. Uh, a huge thank you , um,

(31:39):
to you, Dr. Boyd, and to you,Dr. Roki . We really truly
appreciate your time and allthat you do to improve the
lives of women and ourfamilies. We thank you so much
and a big thank you to all ofyou for tuning in and for your
incredible support of Tina'sWish and our other initiatives.
Be well, be well and take careand be your own best fierce

(32:04):
advocate.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
For more information about gynecologic health, visit
tina's wish.org/what to know .
That's tina's wish.org/wH-A-T-T-O-K-N-O-W . And like,
follow or subscribe whereveryou listen to your favorite
podcasts.