Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to What To
Know Down Below by Tina's Wish.
We're here to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you
need to advocate for your owngynecologic health. Knowledge
is power, and we encourageeveryone to join us in learning
more about what you need toknow down below.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi everyone. I'm
your host, Jennifer Garra , and
I'm an ovarian cancer survivorand advocate and a health
journalist. I'm back with Dr.
Melissa Frey of Weill CornellMedicine for the final
installment of our three partseries, A Guide to Gynecologic
Cancers. Today we'll be talkingabout vaginal and vulgar
cancers. You can listen to ourprevious episodes in this
(00:50):
series, which focus on uterineand cervical cancer, wherever
you get your podcasts. Dr .
Frey , thank you again forjoining me on this topic. Um, I
wanna just start with the basicanatomy as there can be a lot
of confusion about the femalereproductive system and it's
common for some of these termsto be used inaccurately or
(01:12):
interchangeably when that's notactually correct. Can you
explain the difference betweenthe vagina and the vulva?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Absolutely. And I
think this is a question that ,
um, most people have or mostpeople don't distinguish
between the two. And so I thinkit's great to start here. So
there's the sort of femalegenitalia , um, and I think you
may have a general idea of whatthat is, but when we say , uh,
vulva, we're really talkingabout the outside part . So the
, the visual part of the femalegenitalia is the vulva and the
(01:44):
internal part . So basicallybetween the vulva and leading
up to the cervix, where you getreally internal, that's called
the vagina. So again, sort ofvulva is , is more of the
external, the part that you cansee vagina is the internal
part.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, great. And
then in terms of vaginal and
vulgar cancers, are these twodifferent diseases? Can someone
have one or the other or both?
Can you just kind of explainthe basics of that?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
There are two
different diseases. Um, someone
can certainly have both because, um, a disease could spread
from, from the vulva to thevagina or from the vagina to
the vulva. You can imagine,based on my description,
they're really quite close andthere's not sort of one
absolute line where one beginsin the other other end. And so
certainly one can spread from,from one site to the other
(02:30):
site. And we also know thereare some common risk factors.
Um, the most common one beingHPV that can increase the risk
for both vulvar and vaginalcancer.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Um, are there any
other risk factors as well?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Vulvar cancer , um,
probably about 40% are, are due
to HPV infection and, and therest are due to basically
chronic inflammatoryconditions. So a very common
one is called lichenssclerosis. So , and that's sort
of an inflammation of thevulvar tissue and that
inflammation over time canincrease the risk for cancer.
(03:05):
So it's a chronic inflammatoryand autoimmune processes can
also increase one's risk forvulvar cancer.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Are there any other
risk factors for vaginal cancer
outside of HPV
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Vaginal cancers? Um,
can be HPV driven , but we also
can see , um, sort ofmetastatic disease from other
sites, so other, other cancerskind of spreading to the
vagina. And then we can see,you know, melanomas of the
vagina and the vulva. Vulvaactually both. Um, so me
melanoma that you would seekind of in any other , uh, body
(03:37):
part can also affect the vulvaand the vagina. Um, and then we
can also see some just rare ,um, vaginal tumors that are not
attributed to , um, HPV, likesarcomas , um, and other
adenocarcinomas of the vaginathat sort of arise independent
of HPV.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And what are some of
the common signs and symptoms
that someone might have avaginal or a vulgar cancer?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Sure. So I'll start
with , um, vulgar cancer
because this is somethingthat's often visible to
someone. And so if somebody hasany lesion or any ulcer,
anything on the vulva that doesnot look right, that is
something that someone shouldsee their doctor for and have a
biopsy. Other common presentingsymptoms for vulvar cancer
would be , um, itching, likefeeling like a chronic vulvar
(04:22):
itching 'cause that can be ,um, you know, caused by some of
those chronic inflammatory andautoimmune disorders. So kind
of any symptoms that are newand, and should be evaluated by
a doctor. Um, any abnormalbleeding or pain in the vulva
should also be evaluated. Um,we know that , um, vulvar
cancer , um, if someonedevelops cancer, it can spread
(04:42):
to lymph nodes in the groin.
And so if someone notices thattheir groin feels swollen or
tender, that can be the sign ofa vulvar cancer that's spread
to that lymph node. And thatcan also cause swelling of the
leg . So if someone has sortof, kind of new but really kind
of chronic swelling of one orboth of their legs, that can be
due to sort of a vulvar cancerthat's spread to the lymph
(05:03):
nodes that it's affecting thenormal lymphatic drainage of
the leg now kind of going on tovaginal cancer. So we can't,
you can't see the vagina in thesame way that you see a vulva.
So it's not gonna be sort ofthat presenting ulcer or a new
lesion that someone sees. Um,and so more commonly it's
bleeding. And so if someone hasbleeding , um, after menopause,
(05:24):
so when we should not be seeingbleeding after someone goes
through menopause, so thatshould be evaluated. Or if
someone's having bleeding afterintercourse, we call that
postal bleeding, that issomething that should be
evaluated. If someone noticesany kind of mass in their
vagina that should beevaluated. Um, vaginal cancers
can spread to the bladder, theycan spread to the intestines or
(05:45):
their the bowel. And so ifsomeone has changes in the way
they're urinating or changes inthe way they're having bowel
movements, that also should besomething that's evaluated. And
then finally, kind of any painin the , in the pelvic area
should lead to a workup foreither vulva or vaginal cancer.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And at what point
should someone see their doctor
if they're experiencing thesesymptoms?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I would recommend
right away. I mean, I think if
someone is having a symptomthat doesn't, you know, go away
after a day or two that is new,that's something that should ,
uh, that that is something thatwarrants evaluation by a doctor
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And who is at risk
for vaginal or vulvar cancer.
And is there any way thatsomeone could reduce their
risk?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Unfortunately,
everyone's at risk for , uh,
vulvar and vaginal cancer. AndI think the, the best way to
reduce risk is HPV vaccination.
We talked a lot about HPVvaccination on the cervical
cancer podcast, but becausemany vulvar and vaginal cancers
are caused by HPV or the bestthings we can do is, is
vaccinate to prevent someonefrom ever acquiring the HPV
(06:51):
vaccine. And then sort of thenext thing is just really , um,
follow up of any symptoms. Soany, any abnormalities, any new
complaints should be evaluatedso that we can diagnose
something at the earliestpossible stage.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And how does someone
get screened for vaginal or
vulva cancer? Are thesediseases detected on a pap
smear like a cervical cancer ,um, would be detected on pap
smear.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
These diseases can
be found on a pap smear because
they can be HPV driven . Um,and so we can either see
abnormal cells , um, as part ofthe PAP or HPV as part of the
HPV test, but also what iscritical is , um, physical
exam. And so I think there ,you know, as we're doing , uh,
cervical cancer screening lessfrequently, there's always the
(07:40):
question of whether or not youhave to see your gynecologist
or can you wait five years? Oneof the reasons to see a
gynecologist, even if you'renot due for a pap , is to have
a physical exam. Usually peopleare not evaluating their , um,
vulva and certainly can't seeinto the vagina on a regular
basis. And so really the bestway to determine if something
abnormal is happening is tohave a pelvic exam. And so this
(08:02):
is the speculum exam and theexternal exam that's done by a
gynecologist. And that is areally important way to find
these cancers or precancerous.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
This is sort of a
side note, but is there, do you
happen to know, or is it commonfor people to not have a
regular gynecologist? Or do you, do you , or even anecdotally,
do you , do you think there's aneed for more people to have a
regular gynecologist who seesthem on a regular cadence to
catch anything like anyirregularities?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yes, I think
unfortunately there's a lot of
, um, drop off after childbearing. Often people have an
obstetrician and then sort ofafter having children don't
have regular follow-up with thegynecologist. And I think this
is the reason why regularfollow-up is, is very important
so that you can have ascreening exam and then also if
you have symptoms, if you havesort of notice , you know, a
(08:51):
new kind of lesion on the vulvaor if you have new sort of, of
itching or burning or any kindof symptoms, that can be worked
up quickly because really thegynecologist is the best person
for that kind of evaluation.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Um, and also just to
kind of go off of that point
that you just made, is thatseeing a gynecologist, you
know, if you have anobstetrician gynecologist
beyond childbirth, there are somany other issues that could
come up with your gynecologichealth and that there , it's
important to really beforechildbirth and then if you have
children or you may not, andthen to continue on with it
(09:23):
because there are so many otherissues that could be
potentially evaluated. And that, um, just in my experience in
looking around forgynecologists, certain
gynecologists specialize inmenopausal women or, you know,
different things. So it's likeif you, you know, you can still
find the right provider even ifyou're not just , um, there for
childbirth.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
And I would add to
that also, many women, if they
have a hysterectomy forsomething benign, for example,
fibroids, they're very common.
There's a thought that if theuterus and the cervix and maybe
the ovaries and fallopian tubeshave been removed, there's no
need for a gynecologist. But,you know , I would just point
out that , um, uh, women stillhave a vulva and a vagina and
having a gynecologist involvedin routine care is still
(10:07):
critical. And vulva and vaginalcancer and pre-cancer is just
one example of something thatcan happen even if someone's
had some of their othergynecologic organs removed.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Great . And this
goes beyond , um, sexual
identity as well. Just anyonewho has vagina and a vulva
should really have this sort ofroutine care
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Absolutely. Beyond
sexual identity, beyond , um,
whether or not someone'ssexually active. So even if
someone's had never beensexually active or have had
many years since their lastsexual , um, activity, this is
still something that should beevaluated.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And gynecologic
health and vaginal health in
particular can be very taboo.
It can be an embarrassing topicfor , um, women to bring up ,
um, whether to friends andfamily, whether to their
doctor. Do you have any advicefor overcoming this taboo and
just normalizing thisconversation? I mean, obviously
it's so taboo in our societywhen a , a large amount of
(10:59):
people don't dunno thedifference between a , a vuln a
vagina like we have worked todo, and what are some ways we
can normalize theseconversations?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I agree with you
100% , and I think that exactly
because it's taboo. You know, Ioften see women who had, you
know, vaginal bleeding that wasirregular for over a year
before they sort of had thecourage to come in, or for
women who had, you know, a , agrowing mass on her vulva and
was just too embarrassed totalk about it or to tell
(11:27):
family, or to tell her doctor.
And what I would say is, youknow, I think we have to work
to negate that taboo. Andreally as patients, we have to
be our, our best, our own bestadvocate because for all of
these , um, diseases, earlydiagnosis and early treatment
results in better outcomes,better survival, better , um,
quality of life. And so I thinkif you have any symptom, just
(11:49):
remember, this is what thegynecologist is here for. You
do not have to be beembarrassed. Um, you know, if
you don't wanna share this withrelatives, that's okay, but
share this with your , uh,gynecologist.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Great . Thank you so
much. Is there anything else
you feel is important to add onthis topic that we haven't
covered so far?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I would just
emphasize again, the importance
of the HPV vaccination and theimportance of following with a
gynecologist. Even if youfinished having children, even
if you've had hysterectomy,even if you think you don't
have needs, I think having aroutine , um, exam and having ,
uh, a doctor that you can checkin with if you need anything is
really critical to maintainingoverall health.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Great. Thank you so
much. And I'm, I'm glad that we
could talk about that and touchon that, that gynecologic
health is part of yourhealthcare and that needs to be
included and paid attention tothroughout your whole entire
life, regardless of agecircumstances. It's something
that needs to be taken care ofwithout stigma.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Thank you so much
Dr. Frey , um, for being our
subject matter expert for ourGuide to Gynecologic Cancer
series. We are so appreciativeof your time and your expertise
and all you do to improvewomen's health and a huge thank
you to everyone listening. Wehope you will continue to share
the information you learn fromthis podcast with those around
(13:07):
you, and encourage everyone tobe empowered when it comes to
your own health. Please tuneinto our previous podcast
episodes focused on ovariancancer, uterine cancer, and
cervical cancer, as well asadditional gynecologic health
topics.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
For more information
about gynecologic health, visit
tina's wish.org/what to know .
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