January 7, 2025 • 27 mins
In a powerful narrative of courage, we share Giselle Pellico's harrowing testimony as she confronts the decade-long betrayal perpetrated by her husband. Her unwavering strength in waiving anonymity has made her a beacon of hope for survivors of sexual assault. This episode delves into the disturbing details of her case, challenging notions of consent and justice. As we conclude with an invitation to engage with us on social media, we encourage you to share your thoughts and suggest topics for future episodes. Your voice is vital in our ongoing pursuit of justice and understanding.
Who Is Gisèle Pelicot? French Rape Case, Explained.
Gisèle Pelicot: Inside the rape trial that shocked the world | The Independent
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows a father-daughter truecrime podcast.
My name is Jamison Keys.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Hello, happy New Year.
Well, happy New Year to you,caroline.
How are you today?
I'm great.
How are you?
Very good.
I'm very excited and veryhopeful for the new New Year to
you, caroline.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
How are you today?
I'm great.
How are you Very good.
I'm very excited and veryhopeful for the new year, like
you always are.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What are your New Year's resolutions?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hmm, that's interesting.
So to kind of even out thingsin terms of I tend to focus on
one thing in my life and thenfocus on another thing.
I'm trying to be more even keeland trying to accomplish a lot
of different things this year asI get a little older and maybe
you know thinking aboutretirement in the next few years
.
So just some things related tothat and, you know, maybe
(00:54):
looking for that special lady.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's funny, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And your use.
Resolutions are.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Mine are to be more punctual.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, for sure.
I think that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I think I'm just a few minutes late to everything.
So I'm trying to be early so Ican be on time and I want to be
a little more patient.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, you're fairly patient, aren't you?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It depends on the situation.
But yeah, those are my newyear's resolutions fantastic.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So, as we start the new year, I thought it was a
good idea.
We've we've had more than 50 uh, someone episodes 53 or 54
episodes, yay, um, and I thoughtit'd be a good time to kind of
look back on last year and givesome updates on some of the
cases we worked on.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Good idea.
I have an update for you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I have an update about Wade Wilson.
Yeah, god, the murderer um, whokilled two women for no reason.
Yeah, Wade Wilson was sentencedin August, at the end of August
, and he was sentenced to two uhdeath sentences.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How was that, I mean?
I mean, I understand that theywant to point out this was so
incredibly horrific that we wantto make sure that this guy
receives the judgment that hewas adjudicated with.
But how do you do two deathsentences, do you?
I don't want to make light ofthat, not sure, but that's kind
(02:25):
of ridiculous.
I mean, it's like two lifesentences too.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
so yeah, I think it's just like if something were to
fall through with the one case,you wouldn't make sure you're
prosecuted.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Maybe, yeah, I don't know.
I thought they were prosecutedtogether, so that's why I was
confused about the two deathsentences.
But I mean, I guess it's justto make a point.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I guess it's just to make a point, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, he's as vile a creatureas I've ever seen and, just like
the case with the insuranceexecutive that we really didn't
cover much because it wasoverexposed different places.
But it's odd because WadeWilson has a cadre of people
(03:03):
that are fans of his and womenthat are sending him letters.
Same thing with this fellow,luigi, right.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think it's different.
I don't get that.
Yeah, it's different.
Those two cases are different.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh, for sure, Because obviously mental health was an
issue in both these cases, yes,and both involved in death.
One was innocent, so the twowomen were innocent, right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But and both involved in death.
One was innocent, so the twowomen were innocent, right, and
the CEO is not.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Not innocent entirely , but I mean but.
But.
But I mean he certainly didn'tdeserve to be shot down in the
street.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I mean that's crazy, it's not?
Yeah, no, he didn't deservethat, but that's.
Those are two separate cases,for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You know what they do have in common, though.
I mean, I know that both ofthese we'll call them men just
for reckoning here, but both ofthem were estranged from their
family.
They broke off conversationswith their family, like Wade
Wilson had not talked to hisfather for years, but finally
called him for help after thefact.
And then you know this luigifellow um mangione, is that yeah
(04:08):
?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
mangione his family had been trying to get in touch
with him for six months or so on, and mental health is is
something that, um, the unitedstates doesn't take as seriously
as they should, for sure, and Ithink there's like some
societal components of like someshame involved with getting
help for mental issues, which Idon't quite understand.
(04:30):
I think that we as a countryreally need to focus more on
especially men's mental health.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
No, you're right, because the vast majority of
these crimes that we cover arecommitted by men.
Yes, by far and away.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
With mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
With mental health issues.
And yeah, I think even if Ihonestly think that and I don't
want to go down a weird rabbithole here but I think, if you're
going to focus on one thingmedically for everyone in the
United States, I think one ofthose things would be free
mental health care for everyone.
You know.
Free at least to being able totalk to someone, talk to a
(05:09):
counselor, because you and I areboth big believers in that sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I think that the world would be a better place if
there's just someone, becausenot everyone has a friend that
you can confide on, doesn't havea family member that you can
confide in, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, the lack of support system or the rejection
of a support system, either way,you know, is definitely
something that you know doesn'tpair well with mental health
issues, Right?
So, yeah, what's your update?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So in another update, sean P Diddy Combs had kind of
a bad Christmas.
As you're well aware, he's beenin jail since he was arrested
months ago and apparently he hada real problem over the
Thanksgiving and kind ofChristmas holiday.
He had tried everything, triedto put up money, tried to put up
(06:00):
bonds and things like that, butthe judge in the case and
rightly so is not letting himout.
It didn't let him out and Ithink it's straightforward why
he didn't because there's a realproblem with all this that
maybe you know.
Maybe he would try tointimidate, if he were out, some
of the witnesses.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, also, you don't get to traffic children and
sexually assault children andwomen and probably men like you.
Don't get to just sexuallyassault, like tons of people,
and then get out and wait foryour trial.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, right he was.
He was offering, you know,bonds on his some of his, you
know, multi-million dollarproperties and offered to stay
in with an ankle.
You know uh monitoring systemand so on he has too much money.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, he can get.
He can get that off, are you?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
kidding well, and or pay someone to wear the damn
thing yes, literally.
I mean there, I didn't know,it's just a no so apparently, uh
, he, he had a like, apparentlythe, the food and and I and I
saw some kind of a thing where,you know, like, um, like on
thanksgiving day, you know, themeals are like breakfast.
He could have it at 6 am and itwas like a breakfast cake, you
(07:09):
know, and then for lunchInteresting A Cornish game, hen
or barbecue tofu on the side,and then dinner was like peanut
butter, jelly sandwiches andpotato chips.
I shouldn't laugh about that,but given this guy's lavish
lifestyle that he's on, thisSpartan kind of a thing.
And it just flipped him out andhe started hyperventilating and
saying that they needed to takehim to the, you know, the
(07:30):
infirmary and that kind of thing.
Eventually, I guess, he calmedhimself down, but you know
that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I don't feel bad for him.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, and you know, I'm still waiting for you to
shoot a drop in some of thosecases in terms of some of the
other people that have beeninvolved, absolutely.
And are supposed to have beeninvolved and you have people
that have left the country whoWell, there's a lot of people
you know, well I don't want tolike.
Ellen DeGeneres left thecountry.
Ellen DeGeneres left thecountry and claimed she's never
coming back because of theelection results.
Oh, but some people speculatethat maybe there's more to that.
(08:01):
Ellen DeGeneres, she was afriend, she went to some of
those parties, so maybe that's ayeah, but OK, I guess my thing
is with these parties, like iseveryone there?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Did everyone there?
Anyone who ever went to thoseparties know everything or
anything that was going on.
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No because I think there are two tiers of the
parties, Like they have thesewhite parties which you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Celebrities like Leonardo DiCaprio was real.
You know chummy Ashton Kutcherwent to some of those parties
and you know they're really kindof.
There's a lot of nervous peoplein Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, they should do a deep dive and see who was
involved and who knew aboutthings.
I think that that's fair, butlike I'm assuming that not
everyone who went to thesethings knew what was going on,
because it happened later in thenight.
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Right, but some of the white parties they would get
, you know, kind of wild and soon, but not to the point.
And then there was parties.
After the parties.
There's a clip from the ConanO'Brien show and he's talking
about parties and Conan's likeyou know what makes a good party
, and he kind of went into.
Did he let a couple things slip, like you know, you need to do
this and you need to have a lotof alcohol and you need to have
(09:11):
this and locks for the doors,and he says this on and Conan
O'Brien, you can just see hisface go.
What are we talking about there?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
How long ago was that ?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
That was a decade, you know, like a decade ago.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It's just so crazy to me that, like these people were
out here saying this stuff andthen everyone was like, oh must
be harmless.
Like what?
Why were like?
Why were the authorities notlike?
Hmm, that's suspicious, becausemoney and power talk.
You know, and that's why I'mhappy, and I know it's not like
completely cleared up and westill have like fraud and
(09:45):
corruption and everything likethat but I think that with this
me too movement and with thistime's up movement, things are
being taken a lot more seriously.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely, absolutely, and, and and you
know, I mean hopefully this year, if anything, um, whether you
have high hopes for the newadministration or or not, I mean
I hope someone in the federalgovernment looks at some of this
stuff and says, listen, if youcommit a crime in the United
States, you know, and I don'tcare how big, how powerful, who
(10:16):
you are, you know there's goingto be a reckoning for you.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I don't think that that is the administration to do
that.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Look at the president .
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Like he literally just is about to clear his own
charges.
That's not the administrationto do so.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well and Joe Biden cleared his child after.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And that's different.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It is and it isn't.
It is and it isn't.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, but I don't love Joe Biden either.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you know what?
Honestly, here's what we need areally forward-thinking,
morally upright woman to comeinto power in the United States,
someone that's going to do theright thing not listen to some
of these groups and powerfulpeople and just do the right
(10:59):
thing because it's the rightthing to do.
I would love to see that fouryears hence.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I know it's giving JFK, then look what happened to
him Right?
Oh, do you know?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
what I mean.
Well, listen, we can do anepisode on JFK and look what
happened to him, Right?
Oh, do you know what I mean?
Well, listen, we can do a.
We can do an episode on JFK atsome point in time.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, there's a lot of theories.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, and some of them, the more things happen,
the more you're like well,there's some smoking guns.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
But that's what I mean, like, yeah, like I would
love for it to be a woman, but,honestly, like I want to see a
woman president, quickly,quickly, but the right one
before I die, please, please.
But it doesn't even need to bea woman, it just needs to be
like a person who cares aboutpeople, has empathy and has,
(11:40):
like, a bright vision for thefuture, and someone who will not
be persuaded by money.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Exactly right, I mean , and.
It's hard to find in politics.
Well, you know who my favoritepresident is?
Right, teddy Roosevelt.
Well, yeah, teddy Roosevelt.
And one of the most beautifulthings about Teddy Roosevelt was
that he was independent, hisfamily was wealthy and so on,
but Teddy was like a reallypro-American, pro-justice,
(12:07):
pro-american people kind ofthing.
He set aside millions andmillions of acres.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes for the national park system.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Before greed got to it.
Greed got to it and developed.
Can you imagine if YellowstonePark yes?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I could see it.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And there's a resort there.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
No, it would just be like companies, it would just be
another place.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
There would just be all condos and stuff.
You'd have a condo around thebig, you know, the old faithful.
It would be so repulsive Iagree.
And he also did a lot of thingslike he slapped like monopoly
lawsuits on.
You know some of the.
You know JP Morgan and some ofthe big powerful people of the
time.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But that's what I mean.
Some of the big, powerfulpeople of the time, yeah, but
that's what I mean.
But the thing about Rooseveltis like Morgan went down to the
White House and he was a veryprominent person.
Jp Morgan was a very prominent.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Imagine if he was president.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
He never wanted to be president, he just wanted to be
a president maker.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
But when Roosevelt got in, he slapped this guy with
a couple of lawsuits andrestraining orders and stuff
like that.
The president no, jp Morganslapped Roosevelt.
Oh, with him.
Oh, okay, morgan actually wentdown to DC from I think he was a
New York-based gentleman.
(13:22):
He said listen, what's going on?
Do we have a problem here?
I mean, if you had a problem,just have your people, talk to
my people and we'll get it allworked out.
And Roosevelt was like see,that's the problem that you
don't understand.
I don't have people.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I am the people.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And you're not going to do some of these horrendous
things now.
And you couldn't bribe him,Teddy, because he's not
bribeable.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And not probable.
And also he's he's a wealthyguy too.
What are you going to bribe himwith?
I mean, I just I did.
I think the most important isthat he's unbribable, right?
That kind of like personalmoral compass.
That's what we need, right?
Please, whoever you are, hurry,hurry, quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So let's get into the case where we're going to talk
about today.
So let's get into the casewe're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Trigger warnings for the following are drugging,
sexual assault and rape,domestic violence and
trafficking.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yikes, right, that's a, that's a big list.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yes, it is Sadly so we talk about.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
For the most part, we talk about a lot of cases that
happen in the United States, butthe United States certainly
isn't the only place whereshocking and troubling cases
like this happen.
So, in a shocking case thatgripped France, a 72-year-old
woman named Giselle Pellico hasrevealed a horrifying.
You know she had a horrifyingordeal.
For over a decade, betrayed byher husband of 50 years, she was
(14:44):
subjected to sexual assault bya group of some 51 men over the
years.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh, it was more.
That may just be the numberthat they were able to stick
charges with.
Yeah, absolutely I think it wasupward of 70.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So documents set before the court claim that
Dominic, her husband, who's 71,admitted to police that he got
satisfaction from watching menhave sex with his unconscious
wife.
Many of the defendants in thecase rape case charged against
him claimed that they thoughtthey were part of some
consensual sex game.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I don't believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
But Giselle told the court that she was never
complicit in the sexual acts andnever pretended to be asleep.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, but that's the thing.
If, if it was supposed to beconsensual, if these men are
actually like okay, like yeah,so I'm interested in this, and
they want it to be consensual,they would talk to her
beforehand and if everyone'sconsenting, okay.
But obviously that didn'thappen, so it's not consensual.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Right, and you know, giselle, a very brave woman.
Even she's an older lady, andshe was very brave because she
waived her right to anonymity, Iknow To shift the blame back
onto the people that are accusedinstead of her.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yes, she has become an icon for survivors and women.
Women have been seen outside ofher court proceedings like with
signs crying saying thank youso much or, I guess, merci.
But she is so inspirational.
The second you said her namelike a smile came to my face
because I think, especially inthat age group, there's a lot of
(16:22):
shame for having been sexuallyassaulted.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And I'm really happy that she took the power out of,
out of the hands of people whowanted to, like, silence her or
wanted her to, you know, go awayquietly or you know.
I'm just happy that she wasable to, you know, stand up and
say, yes, this happened to meand I I'm not ashamed of it
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right, and she said she was speaking for every woman
who's been drugged withoutknowing, so no woman she would
hope would have to suffer againfrom that.
She recalled the moment inNovember of 2020 when police
asked her to attend an interviewalongside her husband.
He'd been recently caught withsome underskirt photography of
(17:07):
women in a supermarket andGiselle told the court that she
believed in a meeting that youknow it was related to that
incident.
And, you know, police asked,started asking her about, you
know, their sex life and so on,and she said she never was into
you know, practicing swappingpartners or anything like that.
But after a while they separatedher and the officer said I'm
(17:30):
going to show you some thingsand you're going to find, you
know, very unpleasant.
And he opened a folder thatthey found on the computer of
her husband.
She didn't recognize the womanwho was asleep on the bed and
and she said well, I don't knowwho this is.
And the officer said madam, doyou, do you recognize that
bedside table?
And, unfortunately, you knowit's it.
(17:51):
It she did.
She realized that was in herbedroom and, um, that is so.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I can't even imagine a police officer showing you
pictures of yourself that youhave no idea that that happened
to you.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean she said she asked him to stop showing
pictures because it showed herinert in the bed and a man was
was raping her, and she said herworld fell apart.
I'm sure Uh, giselle said thatuntil their marriage she thought
her their marriage had been ahappy, happy one Generally.
She and her husband, uh, youknow, were.
Uh, she and her husband, youknow, had overcome a number of
(18:28):
financial and health issues overthe past and all that we had
built together, she said, wasgone.
Their three children and sevengrandchildren were the only ones
that Giselle was kind ofconcerned about at this point.
Of course she said I justwanted to disappear but I had to
tell my children that theirfather was under arrest.
I asked my son-in-law to stay,stay with my daughter and you
(18:50):
know told him that her fatherhad raped me and had she'd been
raped by others.
And you know she, they justwent through the trial and she
was very brave, spoke every day,like you said.
Uh and the police have umconcluded and the her husband
was convicted Good Um differentthings.
You know he, I don't.
And one of the biggest problemsI convicted good um different
things.
You know he, I, I don't.
And one of the biggest problemsI have.
(19:10):
Um, like he was so I mean hewas so calculating in this he
would drug her right.
That's insane.
And he would tell these peopleto undress in the kitchen and to
warm their hands up, to notwear tobacco or perfume.
Uh, in that, would you know,wake her up.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Literally like I mean , how dare these men say that it
was consensual?
That's obviously not consensual.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And if you don't talk about it with the person
beforehand, it's not consensualRight.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Doesn't matter what their partner says, who the
fuck's that In an absolutelydisgusting thing.
Condoms were not required, nomoney exchanged hands and,
according to the investigation,dominique watched or filmed the
proceedings.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Eventually, you know, created a hard drive with more
than 4 000 photographs andvideos yeah, I would argue that
it's still trafficking, eventhough there wasn't money
exchanged because of what he gotfrom it, like he was like
enjoying it, and he got thephotos, so that I would say that
that is still trafficking.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right Uh.
Police said that the evidencethey had around 200 rapes that
were caught on film.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Between the years of 2011 and 2020, initially in
their house outside of Paris anduh and then uh, but mainly in
their house in Maison, whichthey moved to in 2013.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
My thing is is that you know that that isn't
something that he was just like.
Hmm, after 40 years, I thinkthis is what we should do now.
No, this you know this washappening, this most of the time
, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, and, and you know, the charges indicate that
most of the rapes were carriedout by her husband.
You, just you know, and a lotof the men you know were just a
few kilometers away from herhouse.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I just, I just really can't imagine unearthing all of
this and then walking bystrangers and wondering had this
man raped me?
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Right and she said that they showed her pictures of
some of the men and she saidshe recognized only one.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
He was our neighbor and he came to check on our
bikes and I used to see him atthe bakery.
He was always very polite.
I had no idea that he hadactually raped.
That's insane.
Giselle was was reminded by thejudge that, in order to respect
the presumption of innocence,it had been agreed to that they
wouldn't use the word rape, butrather sex scene.
(21:34):
What?
But let's face it, rape is whatit was.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, it's alleged rape , but I guess their laws are
different.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right, right.
She said I have no sympathy forany of the accused Fuck, no One
of whom was HIV positive.
Hiv positive, hiv positive, andhe had come six times.
Not once did her husbandexpress any concern about her
health.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
She is Courageous.
I mean this is like a legend.
You know what I mean.
Like this woman coming forwardlike this and being so brave is
just and speaking for women andsurvivors.
I mean this is like a legacythat she's building.
Like this is.
It's the saddest thing, but I'mso proud of her.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Absolutely so.
Um, it was a, it was a trial.
It was a.
It was a internationallywatched trial, but his name was
Dominic, dominic Dominic, andDominic was 72.
He admitted to drugging hiswife and you know he was
convicted of drugging his wifeand filming the rapes and raping
her from 2011 to 2020 in theirhome in Paris and then again
(22:44):
outside.
He has been found guilty,unanimously guilty.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Guilty, by the way I'm sure, and there's literally
video evidence right and he wassentenced to 20 years in prison.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Only 20 years.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, he's an older man, so he would be 92 that's
fucking disgusting I agree, Iagree it should be life sentence
, no matter what, no parole,death, death penalty, honestly,
is what I would do for that Idon't believe the french have
the death penalty.
I don don't know if they do ornot, but I'm just saying that's
what I would hand out.
I was the judge.
Like fuck that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Absolutely, and you know, I hope that, I hope that
she gets some.
She certainly is, like you said, an icon in terms of being
courageous and brave and and andspeaking your truth Right,
because so many times you'll seepeople and hear people that you
know something like thishorrendously happens, and
understandably so.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They just want to move on with their life and
forget it, and that's valid,that going to jail, buddy, and
(23:54):
that's, you know, that'sdefinitely what should have
happened here and so on.
I love that and I think youbring up a really good point.
Some survivors male, women,children you know they don't
want to talk about it with otherpeople, you know, and that's
totally valid people you know,um, and that's that's totally
valid, um, the people who dofeel compelled to tell their
stories definitely should,because it does help with, you
know, acknowledging whathappened, uh, for their mental
(24:18):
health, um, and the peoplearound them, and it helps with
awareness of the of thesituation and how common it is,
because it's sadly very commonall over the world, right here
too, right, um, and I think ithelps, you know, the survivor
themselves really like shed that, that guilt, that shame.
(24:40):
You know it's like thisactually happened to me.
I wouldn't be feeling guilty orshameful if it was like someone
punched me in the face, like Iwouldn't be feeling guilty or
shameful if someone stole mypurse.
So why is it that?
Like, society so far, you know,has been like putting a cloud
of shame around sexual assault.
(25:01):
You know it's very interestingwhen it's a crime.
Well, right.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So many times you have people that have been
molested, have been raped andthey feel like, oh, I hope I
didn't do anything to put thisin motion or suggest that this
was okay and so on.
Putting the onus on them tohave to think that way is so
wrong.
Yes, and this woman in thiscase, obviously she was
(25:26):
unconscious, right, and but evenif she weren't, even if, you
know, she was just kind of kindof drunk and so and this happens
all the time- everywhere acrossthe nation across every nation,
I guess.
Um, but um, yeah I I hope thatat some point they get to the
point where women realize andsurvivors in general, male
survivors too I did nothing toput this into place.
(25:48):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Matter what I look like, what I sound like, what I
dress like.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
None of that matters.
No, where the rubber meets theroad, there is the fact that
this happened to someoneunwillingly and there's no way,
and I think we're doing betterthat in this country now
Hopefully that we're not, youknow, victim blaming and saying,
well, she's in some way causedthis.
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
But yes, good on you, giselle.
Good, I wish you nothing but ahappy life for the rest of your
(26:15):
life.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Absolutely For that husband.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I wish you nothing but absolute, dire depression
and ghastly things Agreed andgoing along in prison for you.
Yeah, so anyways, but I hopethis year, this coming year, I'm
hopeful for 2025.
I hope there are fewer problemsand so on.
But if there are problems, ifthere are cases that do come up
(26:39):
on a national, internationalscale, rest assured we are gonna
be following up on most ofthose.
Have a happy and healthy andsafe 2025.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Happy new year.
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the
shadows and let us know if youwant to hear a specific case or
if you just want to give us somefeedback.
Okay, join us in the shadowsnext Tuesday.
Bye.
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows a father-daughter truecrime podcast.
My name is Jamison Keys.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Hello, happy New Year.
Well, happy New Year to you,caroline.
How are you today?
I'm great.
How are you?
Very good.
I'm very excited and veryhopeful for the new New Year to
you, caroline.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
How are you today?
I'm great.
How are you Very good.
I'm very excited and veryhopeful for the new year, like
you always are.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What are your New Year's resolutions?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hmm, that's interesting.
So to kind of even out thingsin terms of I tend to focus on
one thing in my life and thenfocus on another thing.
I'm trying to be more even keeland trying to accomplish a lot
of different things this year asI get a little older and maybe
you know thinking aboutretirement in the next few years
.
So just some things related tothat and, you know, maybe
(00:54):
looking for that special lady.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's funny, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And your use.
Resolutions are.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Mine are to be more punctual.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, for sure.
I think that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I think I'm just a few minutes late to everything.
So I'm trying to be early so Ican be on time and I want to be
a little more patient.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, you're fairly patient, aren't you?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It depends on the situation.
But yeah, those are my newyear's resolutions fantastic.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So, as we start the new year, I thought it was a
good idea.
We've we've had more than 50 uh, someone episodes 53 or 54
episodes, yay, um, and I thoughtit'd be a good time to kind of
look back on last year and givesome updates on some of the
cases we worked on.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Good idea.
I have an update for you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I have an update about Wade Wilson.
Yeah, god, the murderer um, whokilled two women for no reason.
Yeah, Wade Wilson was sentencedin August, at the end of August
, and he was sentenced to two uhdeath sentences.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How was that, I mean?
I mean, I understand that theywant to point out this was so
incredibly horrific that we wantto make sure that this guy
receives the judgment that hewas adjudicated with.
But how do you do two deathsentences, do you?
I don't want to make light ofthat, not sure, but that's kind
(02:25):
of ridiculous.
I mean, it's like two lifesentences too.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
so yeah, I think it's just like if something were to
fall through with the one case,you wouldn't make sure you're
prosecuted.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Maybe, yeah, I don't know.
I thought they were prosecutedtogether, so that's why I was
confused about the two deathsentences.
But I mean, I guess it's justto make a point.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I guess it's just to make a point, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, he's as vile a creatureas I've ever seen and, just like
the case with the insuranceexecutive that we really didn't
cover much because it wasoverexposed different places.
But it's odd because WadeWilson has a cadre of people
(03:03):
that are fans of his and womenthat are sending him letters.
Same thing with this fellow,luigi, right.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think it's different.
I don't get that.
Yeah, it's different.
Those two cases are different.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh, for sure, Because obviously mental health was an
issue in both these cases, yes,and both involved in death.
One was innocent, so the twowomen were innocent, right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But and both involved in death.
One was innocent, so the twowomen were innocent, right, and
the CEO is not.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Not innocent entirely , but I mean but.
But.
But I mean he certainly didn'tdeserve to be shot down in the
street.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I mean that's crazy, it's not?
Yeah, no, he didn't deservethat, but that's.
Those are two separate cases,for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You know what they do have in common, though.
I mean, I know that both ofthese we'll call them men just
for reckoning here, but both ofthem were estranged from their
family.
They broke off conversationswith their family, like Wade
Wilson had not talked to hisfather for years, but finally
called him for help after thefact.
And then you know this luigifellow um mangione, is that yeah
(04:08):
?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
mangione his family had been trying to get in touch
with him for six months or so on, and mental health is is
something that, um, the unitedstates doesn't take as seriously
as they should, for sure, and Ithink there's like some
societal components of like someshame involved with getting
help for mental issues, which Idon't quite understand.
(04:30):
I think that we as a countryreally need to focus more on
especially men's mental health.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
No, you're right, because the vast majority of
these crimes that we cover arecommitted by men.
Yes, by far and away.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
With mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
With mental health issues.
And yeah, I think even if Ihonestly think that and I don't
want to go down a weird rabbithole here but I think, if you're
going to focus on one thingmedically for everyone in the
United States, I think one ofthose things would be free
mental health care for everyone.
You know.
Free at least to being able totalk to someone, talk to a
(05:09):
counselor, because you and I areboth big believers in that sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I think that the world would be a better place if
there's just someone, becausenot everyone has a friend that
you can confide on, doesn't havea family member that you can
confide in, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, the lack of support system or the rejection
of a support system, either way,you know, is definitely
something that you know doesn'tpair well with mental health
issues, Right?
So, yeah, what's your update?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So in another update, sean P Diddy Combs had kind of
a bad Christmas.
As you're well aware, he's beenin jail since he was arrested
months ago and apparently he hada real problem over the
Thanksgiving and kind ofChristmas holiday.
He had tried everything, triedto put up money, tried to put up
(06:00):
bonds and things like that, butthe judge in the case and
rightly so is not letting himout.
It didn't let him out and Ithink it's straightforward why
he didn't because there's a realproblem with all this that
maybe you know.
Maybe he would try tointimidate, if he were out, some
of the witnesses.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, also, you don't get to traffic children and
sexually assault children andwomen and probably men like you.
Don't get to just sexuallyassault, like tons of people,
and then get out and wait foryour trial.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, right he was.
He was offering, you know,bonds on his some of his, you
know, multi-million dollarproperties and offered to stay
in with an ankle.
You know uh monitoring systemand so on he has too much money.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, he can get.
He can get that off, are you?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
kidding well, and or pay someone to wear the damn
thing yes, literally.
I mean there, I didn't know,it's just a no so apparently, uh
, he, he had a like, apparentlythe, the food and and I and I
saw some kind of a thing where,you know, like, um, like on
thanksgiving day, you know, themeals are like breakfast.
He could have it at 6 am and itwas like a breakfast cake, you
(07:09):
know, and then for lunchInteresting A Cornish game, hen
or barbecue tofu on the side,and then dinner was like peanut
butter, jelly sandwiches andpotato chips.
I shouldn't laugh about that,but given this guy's lavish
lifestyle that he's on, thisSpartan kind of a thing.
And it just flipped him out andhe started hyperventilating and
saying that they needed to takehim to the, you know, the
(07:30):
infirmary and that kind of thing.
Eventually, I guess, he calmedhimself down, but you know
that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I don't feel bad for him.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, and you know, I'm still waiting for you to
shoot a drop in some of thosecases in terms of some of the
other people that have beeninvolved, absolutely.
And are supposed to have beeninvolved and you have people
that have left the country whoWell, there's a lot of people
you know, well I don't want tolike.
Ellen DeGeneres left thecountry.
Ellen DeGeneres left thecountry and claimed she's never
coming back because of theelection results.
Oh, but some people speculatethat maybe there's more to that.
(08:01):
Ellen DeGeneres, she was afriend, she went to some of
those parties, so maybe that's ayeah, but OK, I guess my thing
is with these parties, like iseveryone there?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Did everyone there?
Anyone who ever went to thoseparties know everything or
anything that was going on.
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No because I think there are two tiers of the
parties, Like they have thesewhite parties which you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Celebrities like Leonardo DiCaprio was real.
You know chummy Ashton Kutcherwent to some of those parties
and you know they're really kindof.
There's a lot of nervous peoplein Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, they should do a deep dive and see who was
involved and who knew aboutthings.
I think that that's fair, butlike I'm assuming that not
everyone who went to thesethings knew what was going on,
because it happened later in thenight.
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Right, but some of the white parties they would get
, you know, kind of wild and soon, but not to the point.
And then there was parties.
After the parties.
There's a clip from the ConanO'Brien show and he's talking
about parties and Conan's likeyou know what makes a good party
, and he kind of went into.
Did he let a couple things slip, like you know, you need to do
this and you need to have a lotof alcohol and you need to have
(09:11):
this and locks for the doors,and he says this on and Conan
O'Brien, you can just see hisface go.
What are we talking about there?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
How long ago was that ?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
That was a decade, you know, like a decade ago.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It's just so crazy to me that, like these people were
out here saying this stuff andthen everyone was like, oh must
be harmless.
Like what?
Why were like?
Why were the authorities notlike?
Hmm, that's suspicious, becausemoney and power talk.
You know, and that's why I'mhappy, and I know it's not like
completely cleared up and westill have like fraud and
(09:45):
corruption and everything likethat but I think that with this
me too movement and with thistime's up movement, things are
being taken a lot more seriously.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely, absolutely, and, and and you
know, I mean hopefully this year, if anything, um, whether you
have high hopes for the newadministration or or not, I mean
I hope someone in the federalgovernment looks at some of this
stuff and says, listen, if youcommit a crime in the United
States, you know, and I don'tcare how big, how powerful, who
(10:16):
you are, you know there's goingto be a reckoning for you.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I don't think that that is the administration to do
that.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Look at the president .
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Like he literally just is about to clear his own
charges.
That's not the administrationto do so.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well and Joe Biden cleared his child after.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And that's different.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It is and it isn't.
It is and it isn't.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, but I don't love Joe Biden either.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you know what?
Honestly, here's what we need areally forward-thinking,
morally upright woman to comeinto power in the United States,
someone that's going to do theright thing not listen to some
of these groups and powerfulpeople and just do the right
(10:59):
thing because it's the rightthing to do.
I would love to see that fouryears hence.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I know it's giving JFK, then look what happened to
him Right?
Oh, do you know?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
what I mean.
Well, listen, we can do anepisode on JFK and look what
happened to him, Right?
Oh, do you know what I mean?
Well, listen, we can do a.
We can do an episode on JFK atsome point in time.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, there's a lot of theories.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, and some of them, the more things happen,
the more you're like well,there's some smoking guns.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
But that's what I mean, like, yeah, like I would
love for it to be a woman, but,honestly, like I want to see a
woman president, quickly,quickly, but the right one
before I die, please, please.
But it doesn't even need to bea woman, it just needs to be
like a person who cares aboutpeople, has empathy and has,
(11:40):
like, a bright vision for thefuture, and someone who will not
be persuaded by money.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Exactly right, I mean , and.
It's hard to find in politics.
Well, you know who my favoritepresident is?
Right, teddy Roosevelt.
Well, yeah, teddy Roosevelt.
And one of the most beautifulthings about Teddy Roosevelt was
that he was independent, hisfamily was wealthy and so on,
but Teddy was like a reallypro-American, pro-justice,
(12:07):
pro-american people kind ofthing.
He set aside millions andmillions of acres.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes for the national park system.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Before greed got to it.
Greed got to it and developed.
Can you imagine if YellowstonePark yes?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I could see it.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And there's a resort there.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
No, it would just be like companies, it would just be
another place.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
There would just be all condos and stuff.
You'd have a condo around thebig, you know, the old faithful.
It would be so repulsive Iagree.
And he also did a lot of thingslike he slapped like monopoly
lawsuits on.
You know some of the.
You know JP Morgan and some ofthe big powerful people of the
time.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But that's what I mean.
Some of the big, powerfulpeople of the time, yeah, but
that's what I mean.
But the thing about Rooseveltis like Morgan went down to the
White House and he was a veryprominent person.
Jp Morgan was a very prominent.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Imagine if he was president.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
He never wanted to be president, he just wanted to be
a president maker.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
But when Roosevelt got in, he slapped this guy with
a couple of lawsuits andrestraining orders and stuff
like that.
The president no, jp Morganslapped Roosevelt.
Oh, with him.
Oh, okay, morgan actually wentdown to DC from I think he was a
New York-based gentleman.
(13:22):
He said listen, what's going on?
Do we have a problem here?
I mean, if you had a problem,just have your people, talk to
my people and we'll get it allworked out.
And Roosevelt was like see,that's the problem that you
don't understand.
I don't have people.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I am the people.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And you're not going to do some of these horrendous
things now.
And you couldn't bribe him,Teddy, because he's not
bribeable.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And not probable.
And also he's he's a wealthyguy too.
What are you going to bribe himwith?
I mean, I just I did.
I think the most important isthat he's unbribable, right?
That kind of like personalmoral compass.
That's what we need, right?
Please, whoever you are, hurry,hurry, quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So let's get into the case where we're going to talk
about today.
So let's get into the casewe're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Trigger warnings for the following are drugging,
sexual assault and rape,domestic violence and
trafficking.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yikes, right, that's a, that's a big list.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yes, it is Sadly so we talk about.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
For the most part, we talk about a lot of cases that
happen in the United States, butthe United States certainly
isn't the only place whereshocking and troubling cases
like this happen.
So, in a shocking case thatgripped France, a 72-year-old
woman named Giselle Pellico hasrevealed a horrifying.
You know she had a horrifyingordeal.
For over a decade, betrayed byher husband of 50 years, she was
(14:44):
subjected to sexual assault bya group of some 51 men over the
years.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh, it was more.
That may just be the numberthat they were able to stick
charges with.
Yeah, absolutely I think it wasupward of 70.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So documents set before the court claim that
Dominic, her husband, who's 71,admitted to police that he got
satisfaction from watching menhave sex with his unconscious
wife.
Many of the defendants in thecase rape case charged against
him claimed that they thoughtthey were part of some
consensual sex game.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I don't believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
But Giselle told the court that she was never
complicit in the sexual acts andnever pretended to be asleep.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, but that's the thing.
If, if it was supposed to beconsensual, if these men are
actually like okay, like yeah,so I'm interested in this, and
they want it to be consensual,they would talk to her
beforehand and if everyone'sconsenting, okay.
But obviously that didn'thappen, so it's not consensual.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Right, and you know, giselle, a very brave woman.
Even she's an older lady, andshe was very brave because she
waived her right to anonymity, Iknow To shift the blame back
onto the people that are accusedinstead of her.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yes, she has become an icon for survivors and women.
Women have been seen outside ofher court proceedings like with
signs crying saying thank youso much or, I guess, merci.
But she is so inspirational.
The second you said her namelike a smile came to my face
because I think, especially inthat age group, there's a lot of
(16:22):
shame for having been sexuallyassaulted.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And I'm really happy that she took the power out of,
out of the hands of people whowanted to, like, silence her or
wanted her to, you know, go awayquietly or you know.
I'm just happy that she wasable to, you know, stand up and
say, yes, this happened to meand I I'm not ashamed of it
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right, and she said she was speaking for every woman
who's been drugged withoutknowing, so no woman she would
hope would have to suffer againfrom that.
She recalled the moment inNovember of 2020 when police
asked her to attend an interviewalongside her husband.
He'd been recently caught withsome underskirt photography of
(17:07):
women in a supermarket andGiselle told the court that she
believed in a meeting that youknow it was related to that
incident.
And, you know, police asked,started asking her about, you
know, their sex life and so on,and she said she never was into
you know, practicing swappingpartners or anything like that.
But after a while they separatedher and the officer said I'm
(17:30):
going to show you some thingsand you're going to find, you
know, very unpleasant.
And he opened a folder thatthey found on the computer of
her husband.
She didn't recognize the womanwho was asleep on the bed and
and she said well, I don't knowwho this is.
And the officer said madam, doyou, do you recognize that
bedside table?
And, unfortunately, you knowit's it.
(17:51):
It she did.
She realized that was in herbedroom and, um, that is so.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I can't even imagine a police officer showing you
pictures of yourself that youhave no idea that that happened
to you.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean she said she asked him to stop showing
pictures because it showed herinert in the bed and a man was
was raping her, and she said herworld fell apart.
I'm sure Uh, giselle said thatuntil their marriage she thought
her their marriage had been ahappy, happy one Generally.
She and her husband, uh, youknow, were.
Uh, she and her husband, youknow, had overcome a number of
(18:28):
financial and health issues overthe past and all that we had
built together, she said, wasgone.
Their three children and sevengrandchildren were the only ones
that Giselle was kind ofconcerned about at this point.
Of course she said I justwanted to disappear but I had to
tell my children that theirfather was under arrest.
I asked my son-in-law to stay,stay with my daughter and you
(18:50):
know told him that her fatherhad raped me and had she'd been
raped by others.
And you know she, they justwent through the trial and she
was very brave, spoke every day,like you said.
Uh and the police have umconcluded and the her husband
was convicted Good Um differentthings.
You know he, I don't.
And one of the biggest problemsI convicted good um different
things.
You know he, I, I don't.
And one of the biggest problemsI have.
(19:10):
Um, like he was so I mean hewas so calculating in this he
would drug her right.
That's insane.
And he would tell these peopleto undress in the kitchen and to
warm their hands up, to notwear tobacco or perfume.
Uh, in that, would you know,wake her up.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Literally like I mean , how dare these men say that it
was consensual?
That's obviously not consensual.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And if you don't talk about it with the person
beforehand, it's not consensualRight.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Doesn't matter what their partner says, who the
fuck's that In an absolutelydisgusting thing.
Condoms were not required, nomoney exchanged hands and,
according to the investigation,dominique watched or filmed the
proceedings.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Eventually, you know, created a hard drive with more
than 4 000 photographs andvideos yeah, I would argue that
it's still trafficking, eventhough there wasn't money
exchanged because of what he gotfrom it, like he was like
enjoying it, and he got thephotos, so that I would say that
that is still trafficking.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right Uh.
Police said that the evidencethey had around 200 rapes that
were caught on film.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Between the years of 2011 and 2020, initially in
their house outside of Paris anduh and then uh, but mainly in
their house in Maison, whichthey moved to in 2013.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
My thing is is that you know that that isn't
something that he was just like.
Hmm, after 40 years, I thinkthis is what we should do now.
No, this you know this washappening, this most of the time
, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, and, and you know, the charges indicate that
most of the rapes were carriedout by her husband.
You, just you know, and a lotof the men you know were just a
few kilometers away from herhouse.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I just, I just really can't imagine unearthing all of
this and then walking bystrangers and wondering had this
man raped me?
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Right and she said that they showed her pictures of
some of the men and she saidshe recognized only one.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
He was our neighbor and he came to check on our
bikes and I used to see him atthe bakery.
He was always very polite.
I had no idea that he hadactually raped.
That's insane.
Giselle was was reminded by thejudge that, in order to respect
the presumption of innocence,it had been agreed to that they
wouldn't use the word rape, butrather sex scene.
(21:34):
What?
But let's face it, rape is whatit was.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, it's alleged rape , but I guess their laws are
different.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right, right.
She said I have no sympathy forany of the accused Fuck, no One
of whom was HIV positive.
Hiv positive, hiv positive, andhe had come six times.
Not once did her husbandexpress any concern about her
health.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
She is Courageous.
I mean this is like a legend.
You know what I mean.
Like this woman coming forwardlike this and being so brave is
just and speaking for women andsurvivors.
I mean this is like a legacythat she's building.
Like this is.
It's the saddest thing, but I'mso proud of her.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Absolutely so.
Um, it was a, it was a trial.
It was a.
It was a internationallywatched trial, but his name was
Dominic, dominic Dominic, andDominic was 72.
He admitted to drugging hiswife and you know he was
convicted of drugging his wifeand filming the rapes and raping
her from 2011 to 2020 in theirhome in Paris and then again
(22:44):
outside.
He has been found guilty,unanimously guilty.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Guilty, by the way I'm sure, and there's literally
video evidence right and he wassentenced to 20 years in prison.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Only 20 years.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, he's an older man, so he would be 92 that's
fucking disgusting I agree, Iagree it should be life sentence
, no matter what, no parole,death, death penalty, honestly,
is what I would do for that Idon't believe the french have
the death penalty.
I don don't know if they do ornot, but I'm just saying that's
what I would hand out.
I was the judge.
Like fuck that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Absolutely, and you know, I hope that, I hope that
she gets some.
She certainly is, like you said, an icon in terms of being
courageous and brave and and andspeaking your truth Right,
because so many times you'll seepeople and hear people that you
know something like thishorrendously happens, and
understandably so.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They just want to move on with their life and
forget it, and that's valid,that going to jail, buddy, and
(23:54):
that's, you know, that'sdefinitely what should have
happened here and so on.
I love that and I think youbring up a really good point.
Some survivors male, women,children you know they don't
want to talk about it with otherpeople, you know, and that's
totally valid people you know,um, and that's that's totally
valid, um, the people who dofeel compelled to tell their
stories definitely should,because it does help with, you
know, acknowledging whathappened, uh, for their mental
(24:18):
health, um, and the peoplearound them, and it helps with
awareness of the of thesituation and how common it is,
because it's sadly very commonall over the world, right here
too, right, um, and I think ithelps, you know, the survivor
themselves really like shed that, that guilt, that shame.
(24:40):
You know it's like thisactually happened to me.
I wouldn't be feeling guilty orshameful if it was like someone
punched me in the face, like Iwouldn't be feeling guilty or
shameful if someone stole mypurse.
So why is it that?
Like, society so far, you know,has been like putting a cloud
of shame around sexual assault.
(25:01):
You know it's very interestingwhen it's a crime.
Well, right.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So many times you have people that have been
molested, have been raped andthey feel like, oh, I hope I
didn't do anything to put thisin motion or suggest that this
was okay and so on.
Putting the onus on them tohave to think that way is so
wrong.
Yes, and this woman in thiscase, obviously she was
(25:26):
unconscious, right, and but evenif she weren't, even if, you
know, she was just kind of kindof drunk and so and this happens
all the time- everywhere acrossthe nation across every nation,
I guess.
Um, but um, yeah I I hope thatat some point they get to the
point where women realize andsurvivors in general, male
survivors too I did nothing toput this into place.
(25:48):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Matter what I look like, what I sound like, what I
dress like.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
None of that matters.
No, where the rubber meets theroad, there is the fact that
this happened to someoneunwillingly and there's no way,
and I think we're doing betterthat in this country now
Hopefully that we're not, youknow, victim blaming and saying,
well, she's in some way causedthis.
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
But yes, good on you, giselle.
Good, I wish you nothing but ahappy life for the rest of your
(26:15):
life.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Absolutely For that husband.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I wish you nothing but absolute, dire depression
and ghastly things Agreed andgoing along in prison for you.
Yeah, so anyways, but I hopethis year, this coming year, I'm
hopeful for 2025.
I hope there are fewer problemsand so on.
But if there are problems, ifthere are cases that do come up
(26:39):
on a national, internationalscale, rest assured we are gonna
be following up on most ofthose.
Have a happy and healthy andsafe 2025.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Happy new year.
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the
shadows and let us know if youwant to hear a specific case or
if you just want to give us somefeedback.
Okay, join us in the shadowsnext Tuesday.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.