April 16, 2024 • 25 mins
The hallways of schools should be passages to learning and growth, not battlegrounds where LGBTQ+ youth fight for acceptance. We tackle the issue of bullying, the grave risks involved in mandated reporting, and the heart-wrenching consequences it can have when a young person is forced out of the shadows into an unaccepting world. Tragedy strikes a somber chord as we recount the lost lives of Nex Benedict and Brianna Jai, symbolizing the stark reality of what happens when societal support systems fail. Their stories are not just tales of sorrow, but a call to action for the importance of creating inclusive environments that nurture every student, and the urgent need for support that can mean the difference between life and death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nex_Benedict
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oklahoma-anti-trans-bathroom-bill-b2500559.html
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows a father-daughter truecrime podcast.
My name is Jameson Keys.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Happy Tuesday, caroline, hi,happy Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And happy tax day.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh my God.
Tuesday caroline hi, happytuesday and happy tax day.
Oh my god.
If there's anything that getsevery single person upset, it's
tax day.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Maybe not, maybe not the accountants, I don't know no
, certainly not the accountantsright well, it depends on the
type of accountant right, ifyou're a tax accountant it's a
busy time, but you're probablytaking a vacation here Not in
the not so distant future.
With all this stuff they gothrough as well.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Literally filing taxes is so stressful for no
reason, like I don't know why,the whole time I'm thinking like
am I going to go to jail?
No, I know, I know, but youknow, like it's just, it's so
stressful.
I'm like, oh my God, I'm goingto owe them hundreds of
thousands of dollars if I don'tdo this right.
I don't know why there's somuch stress on the line.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It is stressful and I know that for myself.
Towards the end of last week Iwas like, oh my God, taxes are
due on Monday and I always waituntil the last minute because
taxes are just such an arduouskind of a situation.
Agreed, but, it's behind us,we're both filed.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We're both good, thank god.
Trigger warnings today aretransphobia, hate crime, severe
bullying and suicide.
Today, we'll be discussing thecase of next benedict.
This has been a really popularcase in the media.
I don't know if you've seen ita little bit, yeah, yeah, so
it's been super popular,especially in the queer
(01:48):
community.
Um, this is the second of thetwo part comparison case of
violence towards the transcommunity, so if you haven't
listened to the first part,which is the most recent episode
launched, uh, titled BriannaJai, go and do that first.
After I tell you about thiscase, we're going to discuss the
(02:08):
two cases together and kind ofcompare contrast.
In 2022, oklahoma Governor KevinStitt signed a bill into law.
The law mandates that childrenuse the bathroom that aligns
with their birth sex, even if itdoesn't align with their gender
identity.
For some, that may seem like nobig deal, but for young
children who identifydifferently than their assigned
(02:30):
gender at birth, it's superupsetting.
It requires them to go into abathroom that's uncomfortable,
surrounded by students whosegender they don't align with,
and this often leads to urinaryissues in trans people,
especially older trans people,because they avoid bathrooms for
as long as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Understandable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And for me, I know if I had to go into the men's
bathroom I would be veryuncomfortable.
It would be hard to go to thebathroom, honestly.
So the law states that inpublic schools in the state of
Oklahoma, children must go tothe bathroom that aligns with
their gender at birth.
If the school is found out ofcompliance with this law, the
state will be able to cut theirfunding.
Nice, ridiculous, so ridiculous.
(03:12):
Parents are allowed to takeaction against the school if
their children tell them that achild was not cooperating with
the law craziness right I mean.
It's just it creates a reallyhorrible, hostile, contentious
culture at the school, which isan element no, this is a high
school, high school, um, but itgoes for elementary through high
(03:35):
school for sure.
In oklahoma, if a child doesnot follow this law, they can
face disciplinary action.
So oklahoma is a tough place tobe queer or different in any
way, especially as a child, itseems.
Other laws that impact thequeer community there are the
ban of using gender neutralmarkers on birth certificates,
(03:57):
even for adults.
Minors are prevented fromgetting gender affirming care,
and a requirement for all schoolemployees to use names and
genders given at birth, evenafter being asked to call them
differently.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That doesn't seem right.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's very disrespectful.
Especially that last one justreally kills me.
I'm like cause I don't know,it's just like, it's such a
simple act that means so much tosomeone.
So like if someone goes up toyou and says, prefer the name,
whatever you know, it's just,it's so simple, it does not cost
you anything to be respectfuland nice, right, it's ridiculous
(04:33):
and I just, I just can'tbelieve that they require school
employees to follow what aperson does not want it's
ridiculous, it's kind of archaicright it is.
It's ridiculous and it's just,it's so upsetting, especially
for children, because you knowadults like we learn to have a
protective barrier, right, youknow.
But as children, you know we'revery sensitive.
(04:54):
I know that for me, I found,you know, just the slightest
thing to be to be really hard toaccept.
You know you have to learn tobuild that like tolerance of um,
of disrespect of differentopinions.
You have to learn to build that.
So for children it can bereally tough to swallow for sure
, because you're still formingyour own identity.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You're still right, you know you're not comfortable
in your skin, regardless even ifyou're quote unquote, you know
uh, you know straight,heterosexual, whatever you're
still forming who you actuallyare, what you like, what you
like and that sort of thing, andyou're never more susceptible
to you know bullying or topeople to try to push you in a
certain direction than you arewhen you're young.
(05:36):
So, yeah, that's horrendous.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's a really bad environment for queer youth,
sure, and it's really sad forqueer youth, um, and it's really
sad.
So ryan walters, thesuperintendent for the public
schools in the state of oklahoma, also required that, or
requires still to this day, thatall school records align with
the assigned sex at birth,regardless of the preferences of
(05:58):
the child and or guardians niceyeah, in january of 2024,
walters placed a far-righttiktoker who had no background
in education, on a committeethat advises the state board of
education interesting what theher name is, chaya rachik, and
(06:18):
she has a tiktok page thatbelittles lgbtq people, called
libs of tiktok.
This happened two years afterchaya had posted a tiktok making
fun of nexus.
To bring this back into, youknow, nexus life making fun of
nexus favorite teacher, whoresigned later that year.
So they put they, thesuperintendent for the public
(06:39):
schools of the state, decided toput a far-right tick talker on
the board of education thatmakes fun of lgbt people when we
have lgbt youth far right, farleft, I could care less, but
bully and non-bully, which she's, this person seems like they
are right.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
That's an issue, that's a big issue.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's just I don't know where that would fit in.
I'm confused why they wouldeven think that's I.
I okay, the state public schoolboard also requires that
teacher.
This is insane.
The state public school boardalso requires that teachers
report any identity preferencesto parents, such as gender
(07:22):
identity and sexual orientation,like I mean, if they hear
rumors, if they hear, I mean,this promotes like a, like a big
brother, I don't knowenvironment of like students
tattling on each other or evenlying about each other just to
get them in trouble my god, thissounds like nazi germany.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
This sounds horrible now, and I know that's an
overreach, I'm not comparingthis to Nazi Germany, but at the
same time they had that samething going on.
You had people that were kindof aligned with the Nazi party
and they would have littletattletales and things like that
, telling the people we thinkthat they're possibly Jewish and
(08:04):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Exactly, it's kind of similar to that.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, so don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying that thesepeople are Nazis.
I'm not saying that at all, butat the same, time there have
been so many times in history,even the history of this country
, where you had people goingthrough and like there were the
whole the Red Scare during the1950s that you would have to,
you know, spy on people and saywe think they're communists, and
(08:27):
like there were actors thatwere kind of ostracized because
of their political leanings andso on.
It was a real weird I wasn'talive at that point, believe it
or not, caroline.
Surprising, but but, butsomething similar.
I mean.
It's like who cares whatsomeone's orientation is and who
cares if a child likes toconsider themselves one thing or
(08:50):
another?
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous, it'sridiculous.
And we have far bigger problems, yes, to deal with.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And the school system has, but also this isn't a
problem.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, no, but I mean, we have far bigger issues than
what someone considersthemselves, you know what makes
them happy.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
What makes them happy jesus fucking christ.
Like what in the hell yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
why?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
well, exactly, they just they pick on the vulnerable
too, because they're mad thatthey can't pick on um or they
can't, you know, control whatother adults do in their life,
right, so they pick on youngchildren.
They don't want them to get tothe point where they're
comfortable with themselvesbeing queer, being trans, like
they do not want that.
And it's super frustrating tosee because you know, I remember
(09:35):
my own experience like and ofcourse it was nothing as intense
as this, but you know therewere definitely bullies that
tried to tell me that I was thisor that because I was gay, and
it was horrible.
And you know there weredefinitely bullies that tried to
tell me that I was this or thatbecause I was gay.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And it was horrible.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Right, and you know, obviously this is a much more
intense situation that nextfound themselves in.
Really tragic and also so likethe requirement of teachers to
report on their studentsRidiculous, but I mean this can
also be extremely dangerous foryouth who live in homophobic and
(10:06):
transphobic houses.
Sure, so like I mean, you knowwe've all met someone that would
probably not be happy withtheir child's coming out as gay.
Scary to think about if theirchild, who's young and
vulnerable, doesn't haveanywhere.
What, like what happens if theteacher comes to that type of
parent and is like, yeah, yourchild's gay, your child's trans,
(10:29):
and they kick them out Causethat's a big issue.
In like, the queer youthcommunity is being kicked out,
which is a lot.
This is oftentimes why peoplewait until they're older to to
come out is because they'rescared to be disowned without
any background and have tohaving to drop out of high
school.
They don't want that.
You know what I mean.
(10:50):
Like they know that that putsthem back a lot if you don't
have a high school diploma, ifyou don't have a support system
through college, you know.
So it's.
It's just, it's just settingthe queer community up to fail
and it's just it's totallyignoring the fact that queer
people are queer.
They think it's a decision andthey just want to stomp out that
(11:11):
decision, which is not the case.
It's ridiculous.
But so I tell you all of thisto set the scene for the
following incident obviously ahostile environment for next and
other queer youth in thissituation.
Next, benedict was a sophomoreat Oswego high school in
oklahoma this year in february2024.
Next was being bullied severelyby other classmates for being
(11:34):
transgender.
That, and honestly I'm notsurprised by, like what we just
discussed.
Like jesus like.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
It's an environment.
They created an environmentwhere this is not only possible,
but preferable.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Exactly, exactly.
So you know these, these kids,they're also, you know, very
susceptible to.
So I don't want to feel toobadly for the kids that are,
like, bullying them, but also Iwill say that, like, if you grow
up in this environment, you'rejust going with the like crowd
think is a thing.
You know what I mean For sure.
(12:12):
So that's why it's so importantto be accepting and loving in
that kind of high schoolenvironment, in that elementary
middle school, like leading up,because that's what you teach
people, these children, tobecome right next identified as
um gender fluid, which, forthose who may not know, which is
totally fine, what that meansis a person who doesn't identify
with one gender over another,consistently so fluid.
That's where the fluid comes in.
So on February 7th 2024, nexwalked into the bathroom that
(12:34):
the state required them to use,even though they were
uncomfortable using it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
They went into the bathroom and soon were followed
in by three teenage girls whohad been bullying them in recent
years.
Followed in by three teenagegirls who had been bullying them
in recent years.
The girls cornered next makingfun of them for having to use
the girls bathroom when theyknow.
Next did not want to.
Next poured water on one of thegirls in retaliation, which is
water again.
Uh, the girls then grabbed next, threw them on the floor and
(13:04):
beat, beat them.
They were slamming Nex's headinto the tile floor repetitively
until a teacher heard thecommotion and came to break up
the fight.
Remember that?
So this ensued because theywere verbally harassing Nex, and
then Nex put water on one ofthem, right, and then they
(13:26):
literally beat the shit out ofthem.
Wow, like it's totallyunacceptable.
But just wait, remember that.
So Sue, benedict, nex's adoptivemother and their biological
grandmother were called to theschool after the incident.
Sue had adopted Nex after theirfather relinquished parental
rights and went to prison forphysically and mentally abusing
Nex relinquished parental rightsand went to prison for
(13:47):
physically and mentally abusingx.
So this is just.
It's.
There's a lot of of traumagoing on in this person's poor,
trans child's life, right?
Uh, the school not only had notcalled the police to report the
assault, but had suspended nextfor two weeks for fighting, no,
for fighting.
They said that they werefighting, but that's not what
(14:08):
the report's saying did theysuspend the people that were
smashing their heads?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
no, oh, that's nice yeah very ironic.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I wonder why in that environment I couldn't
understand why that happened.
Uh, so sue took next to thehospital to get checked out
because they were covered inbruises and scratches and had
lost consciousness.
The police were called thereand while they were there said
Interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
From water.
Yes, Interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, so this is the system that's going on here, so
it's very upsetting, and so Suewas obviously upset at the
officer for their flippantattitude about the attack that
had happened on their child,right?
So the officer told Sue that ifshe decides to press charges,
that Nex could face punishmenttoo.
(15:06):
So coercion, to not presscharges insane it's.
I mean, it's just, it's a.
It's the system working exactlyhow that governor wanted it to
work, though right so this ledto sue not pressing charges
because she didn't want herchild to get in trouble.
You know, and that's what thepolice officer told her to do
not to press charges.
So next was discharged and senthome.
(15:27):
So the Nex collapsed in theirliving room at home.
Sue said that their eyes wererolling back and that they were
struggling to breathe.
And Nex had completely stoppedbreathing when EMS came and they
were declared dead at thehospital, oh my God.
So February 9th, the day afterNex had died, the police were
contacted.
(15:47):
So February 9th, the day afterNex had died, the police were
contacted.
They collected photos fromunnamed sources related to the
bullying and the situation fromtwo days earlier no-transcript.
(16:11):
Nex's death was ruled a suicide.
They said that they did findmultiple injuries on Nex's head
and neck, including twocontusions, two lacerations, two
abrasions and hemorrhaging ontheir right cheek.
The Tulsa District Attorney'sOffice said that no charges
would be brought related to theincident of bullying or assault.
(16:31):
They claimed that it was anincident of mutual combat.
Have you ever heard that usedin legal terms?
I'm like what the fuck iscombat?
Okay For high school teenagers,what?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Was there an unusual dose of the?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
yeah, so they found that there was more um of the
benadryl in their system.
So it was it was.
It was a suicide, because theywere bullied, beat the shit out
of and then no one took themseriously and then blame for the
whole, and then blame for theentire incident awful, truly
awful this situation is soheartbreaking to me.
(17:09):
At almost every angle, thischild was failed the state with
their discriminatory laws.
The city with the victimblaming and lack of holding the
law right.
Their school for suspendingthem after they were they were
assaulted on campus.
The community of their peers attheir school for not accepting
them and bullying them to thepoint of suicide right their
(17:31):
father for abusing them allgrowing up.
I mean the list goes on.
I just my heart really goes outto to sue benedict and the
queer community and and ourallies there in oklahoma,
because that's that's a reallytough battle.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Obviously that's going on down there and just in
shock after reading all of that,I mean yeah I mean it's tragic
well, I mean, at least in thebrianna jai case, right, there
was some, you know, there wassome legal process that took
place that that actually heldthe people accountable.
(18:05):
Yes, now it was different.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So, yes, I was say let's talk about the two cases.
So just a refresher on theBrianna Jai case for um, you, me
, everyone, uh, so basicallywhat happened was Brianna Jai
was a transgender girl who wasliving in the UK.
Her classmates, two classmatesof her of hers, um told her like
(18:30):
, lured her to the park and thenmurdered her with a knife.
They it was a physical murder.
Sure, this is a suicide that isdifferent.
Both were being bullied verybadly, but brianna jai had a
solid support system right and Ithink one that is a big
difference of what happened andthey were both the same age,
both 16 brianna jai and next wowand it's just, it's so tragic
(18:58):
it is.
I mean, they are different.
I will say these cases are verydifferent, but I wanted to
bring the two really big casesthat have happened in the last
year involving, you know, thetrans youth.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We're talking about children, right, which is so
crazy to me well, it's different, right by the time you're an
adult, right, you sort of builda thicker skin in terms of
whatever someone might say aboutyou, right, yeah, you sort of
you know, you sort of constituteyour own personal being, right,
you are who you are and you'recomfortable with that, hopefully
(19:31):
, and you get a thicker skin andyou're not as and you find your
chosen family right and you andyou, you find like-minded
people that the support system.
Yeah, and that is so importantdoesn't sound like next had
either one of those things goingon, except for the grandmother.
Yes, the grandmother seemed tobe very much in their corner
good and I know that that wasvery much appreciated by them
(19:58):
right, absolutely and andobviously the the brianna jai
case was a straight up.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It was a straight up murder, right yeah so and the
other?
One was a death by a thousandcuts.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Did the coroner say that there's absolutely
conclusively there's noconnection to the hemorrhaging
and the so they said that it wasvery clear that they were beat
badly, but that it did notresult in fatal, uh, a fatal
outcome.
So that was not their cause ofdeath, right, and so that's one
(20:36):
misconception that a lot ofpeople have had, and you know,
that's why I wanted to do thiscase partially as well, because
I wanted to see where's thedisconnect, because a lot of
people in the queer communitythought that that they were
murdered.
The same way.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Brianna shy was true, and so, after looking deeper
into it, it was an assaultfollowed by a suicide, and I
think that's where people wereconfused, and so I wanted to put
out the facts of this case soeveryone is clear about them see
, see, but that confuses me too,because, like, even if, even if
(21:12):
you're walking down the streetright and, um, something happens
and you get into a scuffleright and someone is injured or
whatever, no matter who startedit, right, both people are
possibly, you know, guilty ofassault, right?
So I don't see how theycompletely expunged the fact
(21:35):
that these girls smashed Nex'shead into the ground.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and it's still an assault.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I mean I don't care if Nex threw water on the girls,
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, it's water.
It's water, jesus.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And you want to.
I mean, I can't understand whythey wouldn't prosecute those
girls.
Not that they want to see themthrown in jail, but honestly you
did something that triggeredsomething in someone that harmed
them number one and kind ofpushed them over the edge to
commit suicide exactly there hasto be some accountability.
Accountability, yes it's just.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's interesting to see.
Although these cases are aredifferent, they ended kind of
similarly in the fact that theirlives were not being respected
right and that respect looksdifferent, the disrespect looks
different in those two cases.
but this is these are are theseare the plights of trans people
(22:31):
in this day and age and it'sdisturbing when we have all of
this information.
We have all of this, you know,education about mental health,
about accepting and loving oneanother, I mean, and how
important support systems are.
I just do not understand thepeople who want to bring others
(22:51):
down for no reason.
No reason.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well, right, and maybe 25 years ago or more than
that, there's probably somethingsimilar with the gay community,
right?
Because there were people thatwere committing suicide, because
they were outed and then theywere pursued or were they were
beaten up or whatever, and andthen slowly, things changed a
(23:16):
little bit in the united statesand now I, you tell me, um, I
think things are better thingsare definitely better than you
know.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I think they get a little bit better as time goes
on right but I mean, just in thepast year I've been called
slurs out of car doors, kickedout of Ubers, like I mean it's
insane.
It's insane and we live in likea city that is accepting and
overwhelmingly gay.
It's confusing.
But yes, I do agree with thatparallel that you're making that
(23:47):
like gay people really werestruggling in the past.
Now the struggle is it looksdifferent.
You know what I mean and it is,it's lessened.
But trans people are goingthrough it and we really need to
throw our weight behind themand support people in our
community, the trans people inour community.
We need to make sure that theyfeel valued because their lives
(24:09):
are super important, just asours are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And, honestly, you never know right where there
could be someone in the transcommunity.
That is absolutely brilliant,oh, absolutely and absolutely
has some kind of a worldchanging, world bettering kind
of an idea, kind of a worldchanging, world bettering kind
of an idea.
And if you snuff these peopleout or force them to commit
suicide, you're taking, you'retaking potential away from the
(24:36):
world away from the country.
Right.
Definitely At a time that wecould ill use.
We could use all the, all thecreativity and all the potential
and all the you know the theintelligence that we could
possibly do.
And honestly to all the youknow the the intelligence that
we could possibly do, andhonestly to, to, what business
is it if someone wants toconsider themselves a different
gender?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It's so unproblematic .
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I might not agree with it, but how is that hurting
me in any way, shape or form?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Exactly, but you do agree.
I do agree, I know Becauseyou're a good ally, but it's
frustrating, I totally agree.
And it Because you're a goodally, but it's frustrating, I
totally agree.
And it's just, it's superupsetting.
It's yeah, and it goes back towhy diversity is such an
important part of societyBecause we are better together,
for sure.
We are better supporting eachother, loving each other despite
(25:25):
our differences, learning fromeach other.
We all have something to give.
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And follow us on Instagram at
whatweloseintheshadows, and letus know if you want to hear a
specific case.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Or if you just want to give us some feedback.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday.
Bye.
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows a father-daughter truecrime podcast.
My name is Jameson Keys.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Happy Tuesday, caroline, hi,happy Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And happy tax day.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh my God.
Tuesday caroline hi, happytuesday and happy tax day.
Oh my god.
If there's anything that getsevery single person upset, it's
tax day.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Maybe not, maybe not the accountants, I don't know no
, certainly not the accountantsright well, it depends on the
type of accountant right, ifyou're a tax accountant it's a
busy time, but you're probablytaking a vacation here Not in
the not so distant future.
With all this stuff they gothrough as well.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Literally filing taxes is so stressful for no
reason, like I don't know why,the whole time I'm thinking like
am I going to go to jail?
No, I know, I know, but youknow, like it's just, it's so
stressful.
I'm like, oh my God, I'm goingto owe them hundreds of
thousands of dollars if I don'tdo this right.
I don't know why there's somuch stress on the line.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It is stressful and I know that for myself.
Towards the end of last week Iwas like, oh my God, taxes are
due on Monday and I always waituntil the last minute because
taxes are just such an arduouskind of a situation.
Agreed, but, it's behind us,we're both filed.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We're both good, thank god.
Trigger warnings today aretransphobia, hate crime, severe
bullying and suicide.
Today, we'll be discussing thecase of next benedict.
This has been a really popularcase in the media.
I don't know if you've seen ita little bit, yeah, yeah, so
it's been super popular,especially in the queer
(01:48):
community.
Um, this is the second of thetwo part comparison case of
violence towards the transcommunity, so if you haven't
listened to the first part,which is the most recent episode
launched, uh, titled BriannaJai, go and do that first.
After I tell you about thiscase, we're going to discuss the
(02:08):
two cases together and kind ofcompare contrast.
In 2022, oklahoma Governor KevinStitt signed a bill into law.
The law mandates that childrenuse the bathroom that aligns
with their birth sex, even if itdoesn't align with their gender
identity.
For some, that may seem like nobig deal, but for young
children who identifydifferently than their assigned
(02:30):
gender at birth, it's superupsetting.
It requires them to go into abathroom that's uncomfortable,
surrounded by students whosegender they don't align with,
and this often leads to urinaryissues in trans people,
especially older trans people,because they avoid bathrooms for
as long as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Understandable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And for me, I know if I had to go into the men's
bathroom I would be veryuncomfortable.
It would be hard to go to thebathroom, honestly.
So the law states that inpublic schools in the state of
Oklahoma, children must go tothe bathroom that aligns with
their gender at birth.
If the school is found out ofcompliance with this law, the
state will be able to cut theirfunding.
Nice, ridiculous, so ridiculous.
(03:12):
Parents are allowed to takeaction against the school if
their children tell them that achild was not cooperating with
the law craziness right I mean.
It's just it creates a reallyhorrible, hostile, contentious
culture at the school, which isan element no, this is a high
school, high school, um, but itgoes for elementary through high
(03:35):
school for sure.
In oklahoma, if a child doesnot follow this law, they can
face disciplinary action.
So oklahoma is a tough place tobe queer or different in any
way, especially as a child, itseems.
Other laws that impact thequeer community there are the
ban of using gender neutralmarkers on birth certificates,
(03:57):
even for adults.
Minors are prevented fromgetting gender affirming care,
and a requirement for all schoolemployees to use names and
genders given at birth, evenafter being asked to call them
differently.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That doesn't seem right.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's very disrespectful.
Especially that last one justreally kills me.
I'm like cause I don't know,it's just like, it's such a
simple act that means so much tosomeone.
So like if someone goes up toyou and says, prefer the name,
whatever you know, it's just,it's so simple, it does not cost
you anything to be respectfuland nice, right, it's ridiculous
(04:33):
and I just, I just can'tbelieve that they require school
employees to follow what aperson does not want it's
ridiculous, it's kind of archaicright it is.
It's ridiculous and it's just,it's so upsetting, especially
for children, because you knowadults like we learn to have a
protective barrier, right, youknow.
But as children, you know we'revery sensitive.
(04:54):
I know that for me, I found,you know, just the slightest
thing to be to be really hard toaccept.
You know you have to learn tobuild that like tolerance of um,
of disrespect of differentopinions.
You have to learn to build that.
So for children it can bereally tough to swallow for sure
, because you're still formingyour own identity.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You're still right, you know you're not comfortable
in your skin, regardless even ifyou're quote unquote, you know
uh, you know straight,heterosexual, whatever you're
still forming who you actuallyare, what you like, what you
like and that sort of thing, andyou're never more susceptible
to you know bullying or topeople to try to push you in a
certain direction than you arewhen you're young.
(05:36):
So, yeah, that's horrendous.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's a really bad environment for queer youth,
sure, and it's really sad forqueer youth, um, and it's really
sad.
So ryan walters, thesuperintendent for the public
schools in the state of oklahoma, also required that, or
requires still to this day, thatall school records align with
the assigned sex at birth,regardless of the preferences of
(05:58):
the child and or guardians niceyeah, in january of 2024,
walters placed a far-righttiktoker who had no background
in education, on a committeethat advises the state board of
education interesting what theher name is, chaya rachik, and
(06:18):
she has a tiktok page thatbelittles lgbtq people, called
libs of tiktok.
This happened two years afterchaya had posted a tiktok making
fun of nexus.
To bring this back into, youknow, nexus life making fun of
nexus favorite teacher, whoresigned later that year.
So they put they, thesuperintendent for the public
(06:39):
schools of the state, decided toput a far-right tick talker on
the board of education thatmakes fun of lgbt people when we
have lgbt youth far right, farleft, I could care less, but
bully and non-bully, which she's, this person seems like they
are right.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
That's an issue, that's a big issue.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's just I don't know where that would fit in.
I'm confused why they wouldeven think that's I.
I okay, the state public schoolboard also requires that
teacher.
This is insane.
The state public school boardalso requires that teachers
report any identity preferencesto parents, such as gender
(07:22):
identity and sexual orientation,like I mean, if they hear
rumors, if they hear, I mean,this promotes like a, like a big
brother, I don't knowenvironment of like students
tattling on each other or evenlying about each other just to
get them in trouble my god, thissounds like nazi germany.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
This sounds horrible now, and I know that's an
overreach, I'm not comparingthis to Nazi Germany, but at the
same time they had that samething going on.
You had people that were kindof aligned with the Nazi party
and they would have littletattletales and things like that
, telling the people we thinkthat they're possibly Jewish and
(08:04):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Exactly, it's kind of similar to that.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, so don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying that thesepeople are Nazis.
I'm not saying that at all, butat the same, time there have
been so many times in history,even the history of this country
, where you had people goingthrough and like there were the
whole the Red Scare during the1950s that you would have to,
you know, spy on people and saywe think they're communists, and
(08:27):
like there were actors thatwere kind of ostracized because
of their political leanings andso on.
It was a real weird I wasn'talive at that point, believe it
or not, caroline.
Surprising, but but, butsomething similar.
I mean.
It's like who cares whatsomeone's orientation is and who
cares if a child likes toconsider themselves one thing or
(08:50):
another?
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous, it'sridiculous.
And we have far bigger problems, yes, to deal with.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And the school system has, but also this isn't a
problem.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, no, but I mean, we have far bigger issues than
what someone considersthemselves, you know what makes
them happy.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
What makes them happy jesus fucking christ.
Like what in the hell yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
why?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
well, exactly, they just they pick on the vulnerable
too, because they're mad thatthey can't pick on um or they
can't, you know, control whatother adults do in their life,
right, so they pick on youngchildren.
They don't want them to get tothe point where they're
comfortable with themselvesbeing queer, being trans, like
they do not want that.
And it's super frustrating tosee because you know, I remember
(09:35):
my own experience like and ofcourse it was nothing as intense
as this, but you know therewere definitely bullies that
tried to tell me that I was thisor that because I was gay, and
it was horrible.
And you know there weredefinitely bullies that tried to
tell me that I was this or thatbecause I was gay.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And it was horrible.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Right, and you know, obviously this is a much more
intense situation that nextfound themselves in.
Really tragic and also so likethe requirement of teachers to
report on their studentsRidiculous, but I mean this can
also be extremely dangerous foryouth who live in homophobic and
(10:06):
transphobic houses.
Sure, so like I mean, you knowwe've all met someone that would
probably not be happy withtheir child's coming out as gay.
Scary to think about if theirchild, who's young and
vulnerable, doesn't haveanywhere.
What, like what happens if theteacher comes to that type of
parent and is like, yeah, yourchild's gay, your child's trans,
(10:29):
and they kick them out Causethat's a big issue.
In like, the queer youthcommunity is being kicked out,
which is a lot.
This is oftentimes why peoplewait until they're older to to
come out is because they'rescared to be disowned without
any background and have tohaving to drop out of high
school.
They don't want that.
You know what I mean.
(10:50):
Like they know that that putsthem back a lot if you don't
have a high school diploma, ifyou don't have a support system
through college, you know.
So it's.
It's just, it's just settingthe queer community up to fail
and it's just it's totallyignoring the fact that queer
people are queer.
They think it's a decision andthey just want to stomp out that
(11:11):
decision, which is not the case.
It's ridiculous.
But so I tell you all of thisto set the scene for the
following incident obviously ahostile environment for next and
other queer youth in thissituation.
Next, benedict was a sophomoreat Oswego high school in
oklahoma this year in february2024.
Next was being bullied severelyby other classmates for being
(11:34):
transgender.
That, and honestly I'm notsurprised by, like what we just
discussed.
Like jesus like.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
It's an environment.
They created an environmentwhere this is not only possible,
but preferable.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Exactly, exactly.
So you know these, these kids,they're also, you know, very
susceptible to.
So I don't want to feel toobadly for the kids that are,
like, bullying them, but also Iwill say that, like, if you grow
up in this environment, you'rejust going with the like crowd
think is a thing.
You know what I mean For sure.
(12:12):
So that's why it's so importantto be accepting and loving in
that kind of high schoolenvironment, in that elementary
middle school, like leading up,because that's what you teach
people, these children, tobecome right next identified as
um gender fluid, which, forthose who may not know, which is
totally fine, what that meansis a person who doesn't identify
with one gender over another,consistently so fluid.
That's where the fluid comes in.
So on February 7th 2024, nexwalked into the bathroom that
(12:34):
the state required them to use,even though they were
uncomfortable using it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
They went into the bathroom and soon were followed
in by three teenage girls whohad been bullying them in recent
years.
Followed in by three teenagegirls who had been bullying them
in recent years.
The girls cornered next makingfun of them for having to use
the girls bathroom when theyknow.
Next did not want to.
Next poured water on one of thegirls in retaliation, which is
water again.
Uh, the girls then grabbed next, threw them on the floor and
(13:04):
beat, beat them.
They were slamming Nex's headinto the tile floor repetitively
until a teacher heard thecommotion and came to break up
the fight.
Remember that?
So this ensued because theywere verbally harassing Nex, and
then Nex put water on one ofthem, right, and then they
(13:26):
literally beat the shit out ofthem.
Wow, like it's totallyunacceptable.
But just wait, remember that.
So Sue, benedict, nex's adoptivemother and their biological
grandmother were called to theschool after the incident.
Sue had adopted Nex after theirfather relinquished parental
rights and went to prison forphysically and mentally abusing
Nex relinquished parental rightsand went to prison for
(13:47):
physically and mentally abusingx.
So this is just.
It's.
There's a lot of of traumagoing on in this person's poor,
trans child's life, right?
Uh, the school not only had notcalled the police to report the
assault, but had suspended nextfor two weeks for fighting, no,
for fighting.
They said that they werefighting, but that's not what
(14:08):
the report's saying did theysuspend the people that were
smashing their heads?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
no, oh, that's nice yeah very ironic.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I wonder why in that environment I couldn't
understand why that happened.
Uh, so sue took next to thehospital to get checked out
because they were covered inbruises and scratches and had
lost consciousness.
The police were called thereand while they were there said
Interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
From water.
Yes, Interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, so this is the system that's going on here, so
it's very upsetting, and so Suewas obviously upset at the
officer for their flippantattitude about the attack that
had happened on their child,right?
So the officer told Sue that ifshe decides to press charges,
that Nex could face punishmenttoo.
(15:06):
So coercion, to not presscharges insane it's.
I mean, it's just, it's a.
It's the system working exactlyhow that governor wanted it to
work, though right so this ledto sue not pressing charges
because she didn't want herchild to get in trouble.
You know, and that's what thepolice officer told her to do
not to press charges.
So next was discharged and senthome.
(15:27):
So the Nex collapsed in theirliving room at home.
Sue said that their eyes wererolling back and that they were
struggling to breathe.
And Nex had completely stoppedbreathing when EMS came and they
were declared dead at thehospital, oh my God.
So February 9th, the day afterNex had died, the police were
contacted.
(15:47):
So February 9th, the day afterNex had died, the police were
contacted.
They collected photos fromunnamed sources related to the
bullying and the situation fromtwo days earlier no-transcript.
(16:11):
Nex's death was ruled a suicide.
They said that they did findmultiple injuries on Nex's head
and neck, including twocontusions, two lacerations, two
abrasions and hemorrhaging ontheir right cheek.
The Tulsa District Attorney'sOffice said that no charges
would be brought related to theincident of bullying or assault.
(16:31):
They claimed that it was anincident of mutual combat.
Have you ever heard that usedin legal terms?
I'm like what the fuck iscombat?
Okay For high school teenagers,what?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Was there an unusual dose of the?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
yeah, so they found that there was more um of the
benadryl in their system.
So it was it was.
It was a suicide, because theywere bullied, beat the shit out
of and then no one took themseriously and then blame for the
whole, and then blame for theentire incident awful, truly
awful this situation is soheartbreaking to me.
(17:09):
At almost every angle, thischild was failed the state with
their discriminatory laws.
The city with the victimblaming and lack of holding the
law right.
Their school for suspendingthem after they were they were
assaulted on campus.
The community of their peers attheir school for not accepting
them and bullying them to thepoint of suicide right their
(17:31):
father for abusing them allgrowing up.
I mean the list goes on.
I just my heart really goes outto to sue benedict and the
queer community and and ourallies there in oklahoma,
because that's that's a reallytough battle.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Obviously that's going on down there and just in
shock after reading all of that,I mean yeah I mean it's tragic
well, I mean, at least in thebrianna jai case, right, there
was some, you know, there wassome legal process that took
place that that actually heldthe people accountable.
(18:05):
Yes, now it was different.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So, yes, I was say let's talk about the two cases.
So just a refresher on theBrianna Jai case for um, you, me
, everyone, uh, so basicallywhat happened was Brianna Jai
was a transgender girl who wasliving in the UK.
Her classmates, two classmatesof her of hers, um told her like
(18:30):
, lured her to the park and thenmurdered her with a knife.
They it was a physical murder.
Sure, this is a suicide that isdifferent.
Both were being bullied verybadly, but brianna jai had a
solid support system right and Ithink one that is a big
difference of what happened andthey were both the same age,
both 16 brianna jai and next wowand it's just, it's so tragic
(18:58):
it is.
I mean, they are different.
I will say these cases are verydifferent, but I wanted to
bring the two really big casesthat have happened in the last
year involving, you know, thetrans youth.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We're talking about children, right, which is so
crazy to me well, it's different, right by the time you're an
adult, right, you sort of builda thicker skin in terms of
whatever someone might say aboutyou, right, yeah, you sort of
you know, you sort of constituteyour own personal being, right,
you are who you are and you'recomfortable with that, hopefully
(19:31):
, and you get a thicker skin andyou're not as and you find your
chosen family right and you andyou, you find like-minded
people that the support system.
Yeah, and that is so importantdoesn't sound like next had
either one of those things goingon, except for the grandmother.
Yes, the grandmother seemed tobe very much in their corner
good and I know that that wasvery much appreciated by them
(19:58):
right, absolutely and andobviously the the brianna jai
case was a straight up.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It was a straight up murder, right yeah so and the
other?
One was a death by a thousandcuts.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Did the coroner say that there's absolutely
conclusively there's noconnection to the hemorrhaging
and the so they said that it wasvery clear that they were beat
badly, but that it did notresult in fatal, uh, a fatal
outcome.
So that was not their cause ofdeath, right, and so that's one
(20:36):
misconception that a lot ofpeople have had, and you know,
that's why I wanted to do thiscase partially as well, because
I wanted to see where's thedisconnect, because a lot of
people in the queer communitythought that that they were
murdered.
The same way.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Brianna shy was true, and so, after looking deeper
into it, it was an assaultfollowed by a suicide, and I
think that's where people wereconfused, and so I wanted to put
out the facts of this case soeveryone is clear about them see
, see, but that confuses me too,because, like, even if, even if
(21:12):
you're walking down the streetright and, um, something happens
and you get into a scuffleright and someone is injured or
whatever, no matter who startedit, right, both people are
possibly, you know, guilty ofassault, right?
So I don't see how theycompletely expunged the fact
(21:35):
that these girls smashed Nex'shead into the ground.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and it's still an assault.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I mean I don't care if Nex threw water on the girls,
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, it's water.
It's water, jesus.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And you want to.
I mean, I can't understand whythey wouldn't prosecute those
girls.
Not that they want to see themthrown in jail, but honestly you
did something that triggeredsomething in someone that harmed
them number one and kind ofpushed them over the edge to
commit suicide exactly there hasto be some accountability.
Accountability, yes it's just.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's interesting to see.
Although these cases are aredifferent, they ended kind of
similarly in the fact that theirlives were not being respected
right and that respect looksdifferent, the disrespect looks
different in those two cases.
but this is these are are theseare the plights of trans people
(22:31):
in this day and age and it'sdisturbing when we have all of
this information.
We have all of this, you know,education about mental health,
about accepting and loving oneanother, I mean, and how
important support systems are.
I just do not understand thepeople who want to bring others
(22:51):
down for no reason.
No reason.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well, right, and maybe 25 years ago or more than
that, there's probably somethingsimilar with the gay community,
right?
Because there were people thatwere committing suicide, because
they were outed and then theywere pursued or were they were
beaten up or whatever, and andthen slowly, things changed a
(23:16):
little bit in the united statesand now I, you tell me, um, I
think things are better thingsare definitely better than you
know.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I think they get a little bit better as time goes
on right but I mean, just in thepast year I've been called
slurs out of car doors, kickedout of Ubers, like I mean it's
insane.
It's insane and we live in likea city that is accepting and
overwhelmingly gay.
It's confusing.
But yes, I do agree with thatparallel that you're making that
(23:47):
like gay people really werestruggling in the past.
Now the struggle is it looksdifferent.
You know what I mean and it is,it's lessened.
But trans people are goingthrough it and we really need to
throw our weight behind themand support people in our
community, the trans people inour community.
We need to make sure that theyfeel valued because their lives
(24:09):
are super important, just asours are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And, honestly, you never know right where there
could be someone in the transcommunity.
That is absolutely brilliant,oh, absolutely and absolutely
has some kind of a worldchanging, world bettering kind
of an idea, kind of a worldchanging, world bettering kind
of an idea.
And if you snuff these peopleout or force them to commit
suicide, you're taking, you'retaking potential away from the
(24:36):
world away from the country.
Right.
Definitely At a time that wecould ill use.
We could use all the, all thecreativity and all the potential
and all the you know the theintelligence that we could
possibly do.
And honestly to all the youknow the the intelligence that
we could possibly do, andhonestly to, to, what business
is it if someone wants toconsider themselves a different
gender?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It's so unproblematic .
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I might not agree with it, but how is that hurting
me in any way, shape or form?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Exactly, but you do agree.
I do agree, I know Becauseyou're a good ally, but it's
frustrating, I totally agree.
And it Because you're a goodally, but it's frustrating, I
totally agree.
And it's just, it's superupsetting.
It's yeah, and it goes back towhy diversity is such an
important part of societyBecause we are better together,
for sure.
We are better supporting eachother, loving each other despite
(25:25):
our differences, learning fromeach other.
We all have something to give.
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And follow us on Instagram at
whatweloseintheshadows, and letus know if you want to hear a
specific case.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Or if you just want to give us some feedback.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday.
Bye.
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