June 2, 2025 • 49 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Catriona McKenzie; an award-winning critically acclaimed Indigenous director and writer of both film and television.
In this beautiful episode Catriona shares how discovering her roots, honored and inspired her creativity. Catriona has made her mark directing dramatic, action-packed episodes, including ECHO, THE BOYS, RESCUE: HI SURF, PERCY JACKSON and BONDSMAN to name a few.
Catriona heralded 2012 independent action-adventure drama film Satellite Boy tells the story of a young Aboriginal boy struggling to maintain the traditions of his heritage in the modern world after a mining company expands into the region. The film won multiple awards as various prestigious festivals including the Berlinale, and was nominated for the Australian Academy of Cinema and Television Award (AACTA) for Best Film. She received a second AACTA nomination for her work on the Australian television series Kiki and Kitty.
Raised in Sydney and currently based in Los Angeles, she is a member of both the Directors Guild of America and the Australian Directors Guild and a recipient of the ADG/DGA Finders Series Awards. Dedicated to developing emerging filmmakers, McKenzie has mentored in various film education initiatives including the Sundance Native Lab. As an adoptee and member of the Australian Aboriginal Gunai-Kurnai tribe, she credits her upbringing and wide-ranging life experience with developing a keen eye for people and their stories.
Follow Catriona on Instagram @catrionamckenzie
*FIRST NATIONS SPOTLIGHT: NEW SOUTH WALES FILMMAKER CATRIONA MCKENZIE
*Catriona McKenzie Talks Directing ‘The Boys’ & Her Approach to Different Projects
--
What's My Frame, hosted by Laura Linda Bradley
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hi everyone, today and what's myframe?
I'm joined by director and writer Katrina Mackenzie.
In this beautiful episode, Katrina shares the hell
discovering her roots honored and inspired her creativity.
Katrina has made her mark directing dramatic,
action-packed episodes includingEcho, The Boys Rescue, High
Surf, Percy Jackson, and Bondsman to name just a few.
(00:24):
Katrina takes us behind the scenes for the making of her
film Satellite Boy. How creativity comes full circle
and how working with those you admire and betting on yourself
will always pay off. Her respect and understanding of
actors is inspiring. Paired with her understanding
and respect for safety and stunts on set.
Her stories and sense of humor make this episode extra fun.
(00:46):
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hi Katrina, welcome to What's MyFrame?
How you doing? Good.
Thank you, Laura. I'm very well.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us
here on the show today. And for anyone who isn't
familiar, do you mind just starting us off with your
creative back story, little of the influential mentors and
opportunities that guided and directed your path to directing?
(01:08):
Well, I'm Australian and yeah, I've actually moved to LA six
years ago. But before that, you know, I
was, I started off as an academic actually.
And I met my, I'm adopted. I met my biological mum and then
my biological dad. And that was like the universe
just sort of basically slapped me across the side of the head
and said no, no, you won't be inthe ivory tower anymore.
(01:28):
You'll become a film maker because that was the thing that
just started me on my way. I actually left academia South
of the circus performance group called Suite Falling Angels,
Suite FA and really took time away to process and integrate
all of the new information that came from meeting my biological
parents and extended family. And, and I think as a filmmaker,
(01:53):
I was able to, you know, my mother's family are kind of very
different from my father's family.
And integrating those two groupsof people has been was quite a
humbling experience as a human, but in a really positive
experience because I was able to.
It gave me perspective. You know, I work with Jimmy
(02:15):
McGovern, who's a BAFTA award-winning writer that he did
the street, the lakes cracker and Meg Lefevre who wrote Inside
out and they're both character 1st.
And you know, Jimmy says you gotto fuck your characters up.
You've got to put them in the corner and they write
themselves. And I think, I think in a way,
you know, meeting my biological parents and everything, because
(02:38):
you have an assumption that they're your mum's a Princess
and your dad's a Prince and thenyou meet them and that the
reality is completely different.So that journey for me was
really like being fucked up in the corner of my own life.
And actually I had to completelydecide who I was and how I
wanted to be. And that's and that little that
(02:59):
pressure has given me, you know,in terms of a film maker, I come
from character first because I go, what is the what's the
pressures on that character? How are they being affected?
The narrative takes care of itself if you can construct
character arcs. So anyway, that's a long way of
saying that that that was sort of how I tripped and stumbled
(03:21):
into film making. Left Academia, ended up going to
NYU Tish where So I started off as a writer.
I became a writer creatively, I knew how to write.
I was over educated in Australiabecause you don't have to
mortgage yourself, you know, up to the hill.
Beautiful thing. And but, you know, and so I
(03:43):
became a writer and then I was at Tisch and I had the
opportunity under the sort of auspices of Tisch, to apply to
intern at any company I wanted to.
And you know, for me, Blade Runner, Ridley Scott's Blade
Runner is to this day one of thegreat films about what it is to
be human. It's genre.
(04:04):
It's it's great characters undergreat pressure.
He's a visual master. So I applied and he said, yes,
you know, come an intern and I read all of the scripts in the
vault. It was really great because I
really, you know, I really followed my oh, and, and I saw
real human beings interning and producers and executives and I
(04:25):
never actually met Ridley. He was doing a film at the time,
but that was really fantastic. And then years later I went back
to Australia, I became a director and I was directing,
you know, music videos and shorts and docos and, you know,
I did a feature film that got into Berlin Ali and won a prize.
(04:47):
And and then he, Ridley Scott brought his film Alien Covenant
back to Sydney Fox Studios. And I think literally 8000
people wanted to shadow him. And I think he watched my
feature film Satellite Boy and Iinterviewed with with Mark
(05:07):
Hoffman, the producer. Anyway, he selected me to shadow
him and I spent six weeks with him literally shoulder to
shoulder watching how he works. And he said to me, if you want
to die happy, my dear, you know,get a green card and move to the
States. And that was kind of, there was
this interesting full circle I'ddone.
I'd gone across America in a bongo van, read all the scripts
in his office, you know, and then was actually met him and
(05:31):
saw his process and, and I thought, yeah, I'm going to get
a green card and I'm going to dowhat he said.
Because when Sir Ridley Scott tells you to do something, you
just bloody do it. So anyway, so that was, that
was, I think I've probably vomited a very eclectic story of
(05:51):
my creative background, but you know, character first, visual
stylist, not afraid of hard work.
You know, I, one of the other things I did before I became a
film maker really was that I wasdoing cultural mapping in
Australia. So my dad's aboriginal.
So in Australia, there's very remote tribes living in various
(06:17):
sort of states of Australia. And sometimes maybe there's six
elders that, and they're the last language speakers.
And, and so I, I was doing cultural mapping and it would be
me as the sound recordist and a camera guy.
And we were two of us in a, in aToyota Fort, you know, Troopy.
And we would be going out in Spain, you know, like a week to
(06:39):
get to these communities and we would sit down and do it with
these elders. And we would, I would listen, we
would set it up and I would justlisten.
And I guess that was another influence in terms of my
creative background foundation is it taught me to listen, like
really listen because Aboriginalpeople don't do a lot of
(06:59):
talking. Their body language is really
that's kind of a good way in. And so there was nothing
prescriptive. I was just there respectfully
open to capture and grab their stories and for posterity.
And so I suppose as a filmmaker,now that I'm directing, you
know, I'm not writing any. I am writing, but predominantly
(07:23):
in my working life, I'm I'm directing.
I really have cultivated this sense of listening to the story,
what the visuals to and the actors really listen to what the
the actors are giving me on the 1st performance or even in the
pre conversations we have. Because I love to, you know,
chitchat before the work commences because that's part of
(07:46):
the work too. So yeah, that's a big vomit at
you. That was a beautifully eloquent,
winding Rd. of story. And I mean, what a profound gift
that is to save those languages that will one day not be spoken
anymore. I think that's such a, that's
(08:08):
such a unique and incredible gift to give not only
creatively, but just to the, to the universe.
Well, I had a feeling because like right before I, I have done
zoom, I was like reorganizing myquestions.
I'm a, I'm a nerd, I'm a note taker and I have all of my
little questions written. But I had a feeling that
probably the the conversation will go a little bit more versus
the the nuts and bolts of like actor advice to more of like
(08:32):
what you uniquely, what makes you you and your creative act
so. We're not going to.
We're not going to Chuck them because I am type A, but we're
going to just we're not going tolike really stay on a map.
But I would like to talk about Satellite Boy because I think
it's I wasn't able to find the full film, but I was able to
(08:53):
watch a lot of clips. And I know that it was it was in
Berlin's Film Festival and TIFF,if I remember correctly.
And how you wrote and directed. And I mean, just to look at it
with working with the two young men and, and the just the
extreme elements that you all were filming and how did the
project come about and what was the driving force?
Because it did not look like an easy shoot but more of a passion
(09:16):
project. Yeah, you know, satellite boy.
So again, I'm glad I talked about being adopted.
It was a love letter to my father's, both of my father's,
you know, that old man, the daily grind of kind of looking
after that young boy, I suppose was was was my to my adoptive
(09:39):
father. So, you know, when I first did
my very first short film, I'd gone to Tisch and I had had
well, there was sparkly was there he was lecturing and
teaching. And then there was Scorsese and
and you know, my very first short film was a boxing film.
(10:01):
It was a black and white boxing film and there were no
aboriginal actors that box. So I cast real boxes.
It was kind of a Pasolini, you know, let's use real people sort
of methodology. And that was interesting because
it was black and white. And then I basically went, well,
here we are in Redfern, which isa suburb of Sydney.
This is another hairy dog story to get me to satellite To get
(10:22):
you to satellite boy. I'm here for it.
This is what our audience loves.And so I'd done this film with
these boxes and these people anda real boxing coach trainer, and
we went to a real fight and thenwe popped our fight in the
middle of a real fight. So all the audience was there
(10:42):
for, you know, so it was kind oflike, I guess at the time, a
meld of documentary that I'd been doing and this kind of
moving towards drama. And it was all on location.
There was no sets, we had no money.
And it was and I did a couple ofprojects like that.
So when we got to, you know, I did it just as a sideline, I did
(11:03):
this project called, it was 1/2 hour.
I got a pre sale to a televisionstation.
It was called Road. And we only had enough money for
a ratio of two to one and we couldn't afford a lot.
So we shot 35 mil film in aroundthe ghetto of, you know, Sydney
with all non actors. And that was kind of a ballsy
(11:25):
move because I knew I had to deliver.
I had a pre sale to ATV station.I had to deliver this thing.
I had no money. And so we did all these crazy
kind of methodologies to make itwork.
So I was very, very kind of comfortable, uncomfortably
comfortable with that kind of scrappy approach.
So when it came to Satellite Boy, I'd written the story.
(11:46):
I wrote, project directed and produced it actually, which was
a lot. And it was a love letter to both
sides of my family, you know, and we went to, we went to a in
the Kimberley, which is a very remote part of Australia.
And there were literally crocodiles.
(12:06):
The most poisonous snake in the world is a Taipan snake.
Like it was really on one level really dangerous, but actually
incredibly beautiful. Like it's beautiful.
So and, and so these two young boys, Joseph Pedley and Cameron
Wallaby, they'd never acted before.
So I already had that background, you know, they, you
(12:27):
know, and in fact, I know that'sdifferent for Cameron now, but
he, you know, he, it was a much more of a verbal process than
him reading scripts. Like I told him the story and I
would talk about the scenes. So he, you know, so by the time
I got to satellite boy, we're inthe middle of we're all in
(12:49):
tents. There was no accommodation.
We were literally in tents in the middle of the desert.
There were literally because crocodiles, saltwater crocodiles
are vicious bastards and they will eat you without any kind of
qualms. I've seen a crocodile drag a
shark out of the salt out of theocean onto the beach and eat it
because like they're really, they're the apex, apex predator.
(13:13):
And so we had crocodiles and we were in tents and, you know, we
had people, you know, watching. We weren't totally, you know,
naive. We knew what we were getting
into and we had our checks and balances in place.
But, but you know, it was such abeautiful, you get something
when you're on location like that.
(13:34):
And we built the cinema. We built this abandoned cinema
because it's about dreams, you know, this little boy and his
dreams. And, and we kind of went between
Wyndham, Halls Creek and Canonara, which are very, that's
all, they're all little towns inthe in the Kimberley.
And we basically for five weeks,we just shot this crazy on
(13:56):
location film with non actors and got a lot of heart and, and
you know, like I think sometimesat the moment I'm doing the boys
and I love the boys. Believe me.
Eric Krooke is amazing. I'd do anything for the man.
I did Percy Jackson. It's I did 3 episodes of Percy
Jackson. You know, that's a big engine
with lots of like, it's like, I think it was like 3 feature
(14:19):
films. Every episode was this, you
know, with 10 telly handlers andyou know, working with
industrial light and magic with the, you know, this new cutting
edge technology. It was all very it's amazing.
Like I love learning, but there is something about being in the
middle of the fucking Bush. You get, you know, you've got
the light coming up, you've got the light going, you've got
(14:42):
these two amazing young men. I just think there's something
about, there was a film called Walkabout that was a British
film maker, I think. And he went to Australia and he
worked with David Goppler when he was a young man.
And it's a really simple film, but it's a deeply profound film.
And I think David Goppler was now 60 when he did Satellite
(15:04):
Boy. So that was, you know, but it
was a similar Rd. movie, but from an Indigenous point of
view. But it was sometimes simple.
Is hard to do, but it's good to do, you know?
Yeah. I would love to talk about where
you were writer, director, producer on Satellite Boy and
then you know you've referenced and we're going to talk about
(15:26):
the boys. What is easier for you
creatively Is it is it easier towear those multiple hats or to
be creative but in this machine where you are having to get the
sign off and approval from that dollar amount of the machine.
Yeah, I mean, it's like you can have a meal with, you can have a
(15:52):
picnic on the grass with three friends, or you can have a
dinner party with 10 or you can put on a a banquet with 100.
And I guess it's all, it's the same and yet it's a different.
I think the process, I mean my process, I really, I, you know,
for me to be on set and, and prepare for the work, it's not,
(16:14):
I'm technical like I rebuild cars.
I'm a beekeeper. I'm very comfortable with
technical stuff and film making.There is a part of it that's
technical. But I think more than anything I
really need to be clear spirit, like I need to be very clear and
be able to listen in, you know, like if you think of a flame
(16:35):
when it's fluttering, like I have to have that flame just
very still. Yeah, I, I don't want to be a
wanker, but I need to be centredin order to be able to really to
be present because I love what Ido.
And and so that is the same because for me, particularly for
(16:56):
the, you know, I'm being a little bit of a woolly dog here.
But I remember about seven yearsago, because, you know,
directing, you've got a lot of people and particularly going
from being a doco film, indie filmmaker to doing this, you
know, there's a there's a lot ofpeople.
I'm quite shy and there's, there's I'm NERV, you know, like
I'm, I really lean into, oh, what is the best shot to tell
(17:18):
this story cumulatively? But I realized that actors get
treated like shit. That's what I realized even in
America where they are the, you know, and I and I remember this
dawning realization that all of these actors that I grew up
looking these American actors onthe big screen, they were like,
(17:39):
they don't always get treated with respect.
They're often the last to know. And you know, it's, it's a
tricky dance for them as human beings.
And I and I, it shifted my process because I went, you
know, I was all about pulled shots and you know, all of that
(18:00):
stuff. And I remember thinking, Oh,
these people are the reason I'm watching and they don't get,
have a great access to any process except their own that's
outside of this big engine. So I shifted, I just, I just
shifted my, where I put my energies, I suppose.
(18:23):
And I just wanted to be much more aware of where they're at.
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a subtle thing.
It's not like I send them roses and and, you know, I don't kind
of harass them all, but I just wanted to develop a process that
was much more open and bringing them in.
(18:47):
Even though they're the star, I just as the director, like I'm
their first audience. So I just wanted to shift the
way that I was working with withactors.
Yeah, so. Yeah.
Even mind elaborating a little bit on that because I, I did
want to talk about when you are a guest director coming in, how
(19:08):
do you establish that trust and partnership?
How do you gain their trust and respect and let them know that
you're their partner in this couple of weeks of filming?
Well, Percy Jackson was six months.
But anyway, it was like, Oh my God.
I mean, I, I like to tell peoplewho I am.
I like to be really like, we have a, a term in Australia
(19:30):
called Dag. And I guess a dag is someone
who's so authentically themselves that they don't
really care how they come up. You know, I mean, without being
too eccentric, but I just like to be very open hearted and open
and present. What they see is what they get.
And so there's no surprises. There's no, I don't like to, as
much as I have an ego, I don't like to bring my ego into the
(19:51):
process. I really do like to be very
observant and I'm in the, I guess like on Percy Jackson, for
example, the actor said, oh, Cat's in the trenches with us.
She's really in there with us. And I was like, huh, you, you
never really know how other directors work, but I'm
certainly I, if there's a toe twitching, if there's a like,
(20:12):
I'm very OK. I like what you did there.
I that was interesting. How about we try this?
I'm always very present, particularly with them.
Like there's a lot going on. There's lighting and camera and.
There's continuity and there's, you know, there's, if someone to
help with that, but I really give my full open hearted
attention to what the ACT is doing in the moment.
(20:35):
And, and it just seems to work. I mean, actors are so smart, you
know, they're super smart individuals and I just think
they can smell bullshit a mile away.
And so I, I, I'm, I'm just clearof that.
I don't have that. I'm not interested in that as a,
as a human or as an artist. So I, I just try to be and you
(20:55):
know, I break down the script too.
I, you know, I'm quite old fashioned.
I break it. Every scene, every scene is
broken down into units and beatsand objectives.
And I have all of that at hand. I don't want to encumber them
with that stuff because I know they've done their own prep.
One of the first questions I'll ask any actor is how do you like
(21:15):
to work? And some of them go, oh, I don't
know. And some of them go, Oh, I need
my, it takes me a long time to get my lines.
I really need to go second. Or, you know, if it's emotional,
I need do the close up first or do the close up last because it
takes me a while to kind of get there.
And so I really kind of tailor my process to what they need
(21:38):
because I can tap dance with allthe tricks and the tech and
that, you know what I mean? Like I'm so comfortable on set,
like it doesn't matter, you know, So I really just try and
give them, you know, like a walkway into the process with me
where they get what they need because it doesn't matter to me.
Do you know what I mean? Like, unless the sun's going
(21:59):
down and and you know, we're losing light, like whatever the
actor needs is for me tantamountso.
I think sometimes as actors, themachine is running so quickly
and our thoughts are going so quickly and there's so much
emotion that's right under the surface and we don't think about
(22:20):
the people are taking in the thecraft and the art at that time.
We're just making sure that all the boxes are checked to then go
to the next scene. I think some so often you can
get caught in that trap and and forget the the craft and the art
of it there at the moment. It's interesting.
When I was at NYU Tisch, I was doing it.
I was a writer and I was doing anumber of courses to get me to
(22:43):
be a direct. I didn't realize it at the time,
but I was doing cinematography and I did a directing course.
And of course when you're with abunch of people and you all want
to be directors, you've got to act direct someone.
So we ended up acting for each other as well.
And I never forget this. I was in a scene from Death in
the Maiden, a really hectic scene from Death in the Maiden,
(23:05):
and I think the scene was fine. I was so traumatized by having
to do that scene. Like I was like, I am not cut
out to be an actor. And I remember the fear and the
terror of being in that scene with it was a 2 hander.
And, you know, I just discoveredthat the guy who had tortured me
was the man that was, you know, had come back.
(23:26):
And anyway, I had deep respect for the actor.
And, you know, someone said it'sthe 20 minutes before actors
leave their trailers which is the most terrifying.
And I was like, OK, I'm going tobe the most compassionate
scaffold because what? Like what does nothing else
(23:47):
matters? Like people get all excited
about the camera department and the cinematographer and the
light and the lenses. Actually, for me, the most
important department is costume because costume is what the
actor puts on and you know, props because props can be what
an actor will pick up in a scene.
And so I've just, I guess I've just developed a great, a deeper
(24:13):
understanding for what an actor goes through, and my job is to
make that a better experience. When you first receive your
script, how do you, with the writer and the director of mind,
go through and start studying and letting your creativity
flow, but also discovering the objectives of each scene and
(24:34):
what the episode's purpose is inthe season as a whole?
I always like to give myself a couple of hours of no, like I
like to be quiet and just sit down and read it in one go.
I always make notes. Anything that comes into my
brain, I just write it down. I've I've in a big episodic kind
(24:55):
of way. I mean, I've, I watch every I
did it. I think my very first directing
was How to Get Away with Murder and it was the final season.
It was Viola Davis, who is amazing.
And I had literally flown in from Central Western Desert and
I was in LA and it was Viola Davis and I anyway, it was the
(25:16):
sixth season. So I watched every single
episode of that show because I wanted, I mean, I was shooting
myself. I was so nervous because, you
know, it's not just it's. Anyway, it's Viola, yes.
But you know, so, so I, I read the script, but I want to
understand the context that the story fits into so that that's
the prep that I do. So I read it as like, do I
(25:41):
understand it? Do I understand it as a story?
If there's any gaps, like does it work as a story?
I've got dumb questions. I'll, I've always write my dumb
questions because there's inevitably there's, there's
like, I don't understand why they're doing this.
And sometimes it's because I don't understand the context or
maybe there is a bit of a script, you know, air gap there.
(26:05):
And I just, I love to go throughand just break up the scenes
with units and beats and objectives for the, for the
actors. So I really understand the shape
of the scene. You know, I have ideas about the
objective that the actor will play.
I know that that's a particular way of a language to, to, you
(26:27):
know, like I've worked with actors who want to analyse the
asshole out of Milton's comma because they're theatre actors
and, and they need that kind of technical kind of deconstruction
in order to understand. And then I have worked with
actors that, that they just go, is it more pink or more orange?
Like they're really intuitive and I just want to do and I
(26:51):
don't mind. It doesn't bother me as long as
I understand how they want to work.
And so I have my process and it's kind of breaking it down
and, and these are the objectives.
But you know, like an actor is going to show me, they're going
to show me what what you know, and, and then we'll have a
conversation about it. And it's always a conversation
(27:15):
about the meaning we're created,creating and how it's
interfacing with the rest of thework.
It's like a big beautiful spiderweb.
It's actually for me more like asong.
I feel like they come at it likeit's we're composing a song
together. So those notes, you know, how
(27:35):
they're sitting in the overall thing and that's about rhythm
and cadence and all sorts of things.
But yeah, for me, the very firstread is everything and I just
need to go, do I understand it? What is it?
Oh, you know, like it's a, it's a lovely curious leaning into to
(27:55):
what it could be. And then I break it down and
then it sort of ends up coming back together again.
With actors having different processes and them sharing that
with you of you know, whether they really want to get into the
minutiae or they are more aura and vibes.
Do you find the main key to success or I don't want to say
(28:17):
key to success, do you? We'll say it.
It's what makes a great scene, the actor knowing how they
process and understand. It's not how they get there,
it's just them knowing themselves.
It's interesting because, you know, often I'll say it's a bit
(28:38):
of a conceit because particularly in television, I
always create the illusion that we have all the time in the
world and we can take our time and we can have conversations
and the first aid is going. I always make my days, but but I
do and so towards that I'll often.
(29:01):
So do one for yourself. We've got I think I'm happy with
what I've got. Do one for yourself.
Have a, you know, try something different or bucket.
Just do just do one because you know for yourself and it's
interesting. Often that's the one that's
something sort of extraordinary comes out because suddenly, oh,
(29:22):
we've got it, there's No Fear. Oh, she's happy.
Oh fuck it, I'm going to do this.
And sometimes that is the take where something surprising comes
out which is interesting or different.
And sometimes the first take, you know, I'll give notes.
Like I can't. It's interesting too.
As a director in episodic, like I have to give notes.
(29:43):
I can't deal with 1 take. I mean, I've been told you have
to do more. You know, there's safety of the
tape if something wrong, glitch in the digital zeros and ones,
whatever I like. And I'm also interested in doing
performance options because maybe it's going to help create,
you know, the scene in post. It's a little bit interesting,
(30:07):
but so those two, you know, likesometimes the first takes the
best and sometimes the ones where the for shits and giggles
1 is the best because, and I don't know what that means about
the actor, whether you know someone who's really
comfortable. Like I work with Paul Reiser,
amazing. He's an amazing, consummate,
(30:29):
incredible actor. I mean, Viola Davis, I mean,
actors love direction and they also know their own process for
themselves. And that interface is for me,
the really interesting kind of part of the process because
someone like Viola Davis or PaulReiser, like they fuck, they
(30:51):
know what they're doing, but actually, and I know what I'm
doing. So, but somehow that that rather
of it all can be, can be the most interesting surprise of the
scene. You know, I don't know if I
answered your question. But no, you did.
And I, I was like, I was listening to you.
I appreciate you. You understood what I was trying
(31:12):
to say. And I think in seasons of quiet
and when there are growing painsin the industry, there is a lot
that is kind of thrust upon actors of if you study here,
this will make a difference. If you do this, it will make a
difference. And I try to always get ahead of
that as much as I can. You know, that's why I started
(31:32):
the podcast was to lower that that barrier of access for
education and understanding and,and hearing creative
conversations. And I think for me, what I have
found is, you know, me understanding my process and
remembering that we are here to play and create it.
It is so freeing. But there is.
(31:52):
So again, it's just it's it's it's environment kind of
stifling art. And that was that was what I was
was trying to get at. But you you understood.
So thank you so much. Thank.
You so it's really tricky I meanwhen we think talk about the
casting, you know, as AI, sometimes I there's no casting
to be done when I come onto an episode, sometimes there's
(32:15):
casting to be done big little sometimes I'm putting someone in
that's going to have a you know,be a major cast member across
the season. Sometimes they're day players,
but that process is interesting because as an actor, like I'll
give my top three top five and then the producers and then the
(32:39):
network and the studio and, and there are fine, fine actors
doing beautifully nuanced performances and they don't get
the role. And it's, it's I'm devastated
for them. Like I'm like, oh, fuck, really?
You went with that? You were the oh, and you know,
or they're, and they're all valid, but I just go, you
(33:02):
couldn't see that this, this wasthe, this and it's just this
thing because it, you know, likeI can, I'll fight for an actor,
but at the end of the day, I don't always get my pick.
And, and sometimes there's 20 actors who've submitted like
it's, it's a tough gig, you know, And I honestly don't know
(33:22):
whether the, the, whether you'vestudied with this or that or
here or there. I don't know what it is.
I think about that a lot. So, yeah, but I couldn't, like I
said, I went into therapy after doing Death in the Maiden.
It was devastating for me. It was too much.
You opened yourself up a little too much to that experience.
(33:43):
We've all been there. We've, we've, I think if, if
we're being honest, every actor,there was at least one or two
roles that they probably needed to talk to a professional
afterwards to get get back leveled at a zero.
You've worked on several shows with a huge element of stunts,
special effects. And that's something I've been
(34:03):
working on for an upcoming project with SAG AFTRA talking
about stunt coordinators and setsafety.
So it's something I'm, I'm very immersed in right now.
And I would love to hear how when you approach the work, how
you connect with your stunt coordinator and stunt performers
as well as your actors that are,you know, stepping into the
scene, how you orchestrate the the action, but also the
(34:28):
emotional elements of those scenes because it is ultimately
all there in service of story. Yes, you know, I did this show
called Echo and I, Al Aqua Cox was the lead actress and she's
deaf and she's also she has one leg and it was a pretty stunt
heavy, you know, and so and alsoI didn't know her and also she
(34:53):
was quite new to acting. She'd been in Hawkeye and then
she'd come in. So she was not a seasoned actor
as well. And I just went and sat and
watched her rehearsing in stunts.
I wasn't I didn't. I just sat quietly and I just
watched her and I can just feel what you know, just to see what
she was comfortable with and what was her and and all.
(35:15):
And she kind of progressed across the series too.
So, but I, I never want to put anyone in a situation where
they're not physically comfortable.
Do you know what I mean? Like I, I, like, I remember once
I did this Walking Dead episode and it was a week before Rust
and the, that incident and, and I, you know, the question was,
(35:38):
do you want to, shall we use blanks?
And I said, no, no, a muzzle flash is VFX $0.50.
It doesn't. We're not using blanks.
We're not going to do it. We're not going to have any of
that. And I so just in general, I want
safety first for everyone, whether it's that, whether it's
stunts, like whether it's physical fighting or, you know,
(36:02):
but again, I do come, you know, So having said that, getting to
know the people actually doing it, it's always about character
and story and it's character 1st.
And it is emotion first, becauseI mean, it doesn't, if it's, if
it's just action for action sake, it's kind of noise.
It doesn't mean anything. So I'm as much as I do.
I mean, my last episode of the boys last season was this like
(36:25):
we, we destroyed the flat iron. We it was so, but it was
hopefully it was emotional as well.
You know, like that's, that's what really sells it for me.
So whenever I'm talking with thestunt coordinator and I love
this stuff too. Like I like I said, I rebuild
cars. I'm like, I like going fast.
I've got cousins and my uncle is, you know, they're racing car
(36:48):
drivers and, and we're total Revheads, you know, like I love all
that stuff. But really it is about when I'm
talking to the, you know, John Koyama on the Boys or Trevor
Addie or Eli on Percy Jackson, they're Canadians.
It's all about character and emotion in service of story.
(37:09):
And so they'll always offer something up and I'll go, oh,
that's good. But because of this, can we die?
And of course, like, yeah, no one reason.
So it's really, it has to be about character in service of
story and emotion for me. I'm a very Sookie.
I don't know if you have that word Sookie, but Sookie in
(37:29):
Australia means really emotional.
So it's got to move me. It's got to make me feel
something. Otherwise it's just like just
like noise. So it's always a conversation.
It's always a conversation firstabout story and character.
And then they'll show me and then I'll another conversation
and then they'll show me. And then, you know, the, you
know, the stunt performers are so intelligent in terms of what
(37:53):
they give. So it's, it's many beautiful
conversations that bring us to that point when we're filming.
And even then they make adjustments depending upon, you
know, the light or the whatever it is.
We actually had the composer of the boys on the podcast in the
past season, and it was so fascinating to hear all of the
(38:13):
thought and all of the detail that was going into those
conversations to just that finalPolish of the emotional element
and the period of the exclamation mark.
And fascinating. Music is where it's at.
The Republic of Sarah Youserved as Co EP and director of two
episodes. How did that project come about
and was it liberating having that Co EP perspective and say
(38:41):
in your director's chair? That was interesting.
I had been in America six months.
COVID happened. My son was 10, school shut down.
I got this opportunity. I, you know, I, I've done 4
pilots in Australia. I've done a movie, you know, so
I'm, and I'm like a Mama bear, you know, like I do like, I love
(39:05):
being on set and I, I love the process.
I got this opportunity and I putmy son and two rescue cats
because I'd rescued these cats. You know, every, when COVID hit,
by the way, every sane Australian went back to
Australia because it's like freehealthcare and it's an island
and no germs can get in. And we'll be right.
And well, I didn't. I just rescued these two cats.
(39:28):
Yeah, I was going to say I had friends in America that went to
Australia and New Zealand to hunker down.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you, you went the opposite
way. Well.
You've been adopted and, and I understand what it is to be
rescued. And so I'd rescued these two
kittens and I was like, I can't just Chuck them out on the
street again. Like can't do it.
So we stayed and I ended up driving in I, I basically took
(39:55):
five weeks to drive from LA to Montreal to start the job.
And we went to Lake Tahoe. We went, we went all across
America. It was actually fabulous.
It's quite a kind of amazing road trip in the midst of the
world was ending. You know, we had these two
rescue kittens and my son was 10and we've just fucking went.
It was amazing. But a memory that he'll always
(40:18):
have like, that's incredible. You can talk to him because he's
like, mom, you will. Anyway, so we were there.
I mean, virtual school was hellacious.
He wasn't missing anything. Yeah, yeah, He, he would get up.
Well, you know, he got up, he started school in Montreal at
12, which was 9:00 in LA So actually he had a pretty good.
(40:38):
He would sleep in, he would start school.
He but and it's so so the Republic of Sierra was during
COVID and it was you know, the the I can't there's not enough
space in the screen. Like the sort of the health and
safety manuals that we were given was outrageous.
So it was troll. I mean, it was my first
(41:01):
producing director job in America and it was hectic
because people were scared. You know, we had people having
nervous breakdowns because they was scared they were going to
die. So it was not a normal
situation. So I actually love being a
producing director because I do love to be able to scaffold the
(41:25):
directors coming in and the actors and like, I love being
out, you know, with transport and setting up where the
trailers go. So everyone like I love, you
know, like I'm like I rebuild the engines and you know, I'm
very technical. So I do love, you know, I
restore old cars. So I'm into all of that stuff.
(41:45):
So I enjoyed it. And I guess it's just a
different, it's a producing thing.
So I understand production. I know how we have to make our
days. I understand that there's money.
And and so as creative as I am within the directing process,
I'm always cognizant of there's money.
There's a bit of string. This is all you get.
(42:06):
You don't get 2 inches more. This is what you got.
You got to make it work. So I understand that.
So I, I think it might be, I think it was easier to direct to
having done that because I came in, you know, I'd been like, we
would like writers write what they want.
(42:27):
And despite the fact that and, and Jeffrey Paul King's an
amazing writer, but, you know, there were moments where actors
needed to kiss, but they couldn't kiss because it was
COVID. They couldn't be within, you
know, So we would, we developed these latex masks with breathing
tubes so that because there's certain ways you can set up
shots so it looks like they're kissing, but for that actual
(42:48):
kiss. Like we were doing all sorts of
wacky things just to try and honour the script, you know, So
it was an unusual time and. But yeah, but I, I think being
that producing director, executive producer allowed me to
(43:08):
work more closely with the crew because I had been there for the
duration and the actors trusted me.
And, you know, we'd sort of beenthrough the grinder a bit
together. So it was kind of, yeah, it was.
I think it made it easier to be honest.
Yeah, you definitely do not shy away from a challenge I respect.
That. I respect.
(43:30):
That Well, you know what you cando?
You're gonna, you can't. You gotta keep moving forward.
Exactly. Well Speaking of challenges,
Rescue High Surf is such a high octane show that also shoots
authentically in the elements onlocation in Hawaii.
What gifts or challenges does that present as the director?
(43:51):
You know, I, so I, you know, John Wells for me is, is the guy
like he called me after my Ed and I said I and I was on set
filming and I, I probably shouldn't have anyway, but it
was a very clipped conversation.But I said, John, you, I've know
people that have worked with youand with you and for you and you
are one of the good guys. And I wanted to do that show
(44:13):
because of him. You know, there was a strange
film called Animal Kingdom and he took the rights and he made
that into ATV series and you know, he's amazing and so shame
what everything you know, and and I understand he is a bit of
a RIP shit and boss kind of guy.Like he does like to go scrappy
handheld and I love that becausethat's where I started.
(44:34):
You know, scrappy handheld in the middle of the Bush with
actors or non actors is definitely, you know, like I'm
comfortable with that. So and Hawaii is beautiful.
It's halfway between Sydney and LA, So we've been there quite a
bit, you know, as a stopover formy son because he can't fly too
far. And so he said handheld on the
(44:56):
beach. And I was like, no lighting, no
grips, no like no cranes, no tracks, no toys, no toys,
handheld on the beach. And I was like, OK, all right,
but you know what it was, it wasso cool because it really was
actors in the sand. My calf muscles were like, I was
(45:17):
toned when I got back from Hawaii running in the sand.
But it was, it was, it was actually a beautiful experience.
It was we had, there was a camera operator called Ruben.
We had a scene, couple of Aussies actually were, were in
the cast too. That was fun.
We had a scene where there was the, you know, one of the
(45:37):
lifeguards coming up the beach on an ATV sees a fight, you
know, intervenes with the fight.So we put a camera operator
strapped him to the sort of heldhim onto the front of the ATV
and we were moving. We we did a couple of different
versions, but we discovered waysto add movement to that handheld
(45:59):
and that was just, it gave it its own distinctive style.
I loved it. The past were fantastic.
Ariel and Bobby like it was, it was amazing.
So again, all actors with beautiful in a beautiful place,
yeah. You know, it's so, it's so
(46:20):
incredible. I, I myself was a lifeguard and
whenever I see shows like that, I'm always kind of looking for
the tricks I'm looking for, likewas it shot in the tank?
And it's it's so impressive whatthey have been able to
accomplish and you can tell it took so much heart and so much
fight to get it to that level ofauthenticity.
Alaska Daily was a show I absolutely loved.
(46:43):
Hilary Swank is such a force andjust a beautiful human being.
Was devastated that it only got one season.
Do you have any favorite memories from the set?
I mean, I love that show. I was, you know what?
And I love Hilary. She is an authentic, awesome
human being. She's got integrity and strength
(47:04):
and I have deep respect, admiration for her.
Again, that was a show where I feel like, you know, all of that
stuff that I started off with, you know, like as in a doing all
of my indigenous film making andsuddenly here is this amazing
opportunity to bring the missingAlaskan women, this native story
(47:24):
with Hilary Swank, Like it doesn't get any better.
Like it was like, OK, this is the sweet spot.
This has actually felt like I was, I was built for it.
So for me, you know, I always try and have like on Republic of
Sierra, whenever there's an assistant, I, I wanted a native
assistant because I want to bring it, you know, play it
(47:45):
forward. And so, you know, there were
just opportunities to work with actually some of the people that
I'd worked with kind of knew of from Echo.
I was able to, you know, bring one of the actors mums I cast
in, you know, in Alaska daily, aNative woman.
(48:06):
So it just felt it felt easy. It was a delight to work with
her. She's very detailed as an actor.
She's very, it's very distilled and combed through and it's very
it's that beautiful combination of she's technically on point,
(48:29):
but it's never technical. It's always elevated.
It's very alive and nuanced. And then she has a stillness to
her as an actor that's terrific.And but there's there's always
wheels turning. Like it was great.
You know, I just worked with Kevin Bacon on this bondsman at
Amazon, and he's the same, you know, really integris authentic
(48:50):
human being, very technically, you know, but the detail as an
actor that he brings is terrific.
So again, you know, it's really,it's great fun to work with
them. Yeah.
I can't believe it's that time. We close every episode the same
way. What is one thing you wish you
could go back and tell your younger self?
(49:13):
Trust the process. I guess that's it.
Trust the process. Hey, thank you so much for
joining us on What's My Frame. This is bed my artistic soul in
a way I cannot describe it with such a joy to listen to your
stories and your experiences andinsight.
Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening and being
(49:34):
the absolute best part of our creative community here at
What's My Frame. If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame to stay in the know for
upcoming events. I'm your host, Laura Linda
Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone, today and what's myframe?
I'm joined by director and writer Katrina Mackenzie.
In this beautiful episode, Katrina shares the hell
discovering her roots honored and inspired her creativity.
Katrina has made her mark directing dramatic,
action-packed episodes includingEcho, The Boys Rescue, High
Surf, Percy Jackson, and Bondsman to name just a few.
(00:24):
Katrina takes us behind the scenes for the making of her
film Satellite Boy. How creativity comes full circle
and how working with those you admire and betting on yourself
will always pay off. Her respect and understanding of
actors is inspiring. Paired with her understanding
and respect for safety and stunts on set.
Her stories and sense of humor make this episode extra fun.
(00:46):
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hi Katrina, welcome to What's MyFrame?
How you doing? Good.
Thank you, Laura. I'm very well.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us
here on the show today. And for anyone who isn't
familiar, do you mind just starting us off with your
creative back story, little of the influential mentors and
opportunities that guided and directed your path to directing?
(01:08):
Well, I'm Australian and yeah, I've actually moved to LA six
years ago. But before that, you know, I
was, I started off as an academic actually.
And I met my, I'm adopted. I met my biological mum and then
my biological dad. And that was like the universe
just sort of basically slapped me across the side of the head
and said no, no, you won't be inthe ivory tower anymore.
(01:28):
You'll become a film maker because that was the thing that
just started me on my way. I actually left academia South
of the circus performance group called Suite Falling Angels,
Suite FA and really took time away to process and integrate
all of the new information that came from meeting my biological
parents and extended family. And, and I think as a filmmaker,
(01:53):
I was able to, you know, my mother's family are kind of very
different from my father's family.
And integrating those two groupsof people has been was quite a
humbling experience as a human, but in a really positive
experience because I was able to.
It gave me perspective. You know, I work with Jimmy
(02:15):
McGovern, who's a BAFTA award-winning writer that he did
the street, the lakes cracker and Meg Lefevre who wrote Inside
out and they're both character 1st.
And you know, Jimmy says you gotto fuck your characters up.
You've got to put them in the corner and they write
themselves. And I think, I think in a way,
you know, meeting my biological parents and everything, because
(02:38):
you have an assumption that they're your mum's a Princess
and your dad's a Prince and thenyou meet them and that the
reality is completely different.So that journey for me was
really like being fucked up in the corner of my own life.
And actually I had to completelydecide who I was and how I
wanted to be. And that's and that little that
(02:59):
pressure has given me, you know,in terms of a film maker, I come
from character first because I go, what is the what's the
pressures on that character? How are they being affected?
The narrative takes care of itself if you can construct
character arcs. So anyway, that's a long way of
saying that that that was sort of how I tripped and stumbled
(03:21):
into film making. Left Academia, ended up going to
NYU Tish where So I started off as a writer.
I became a writer creatively, I knew how to write.
I was over educated in Australiabecause you don't have to
mortgage yourself, you know, up to the hill.
Beautiful thing. And but, you know, and so I
(03:43):
became a writer and then I was at Tisch and I had the
opportunity under the sort of auspices of Tisch, to apply to
intern at any company I wanted to.
And you know, for me, Blade Runner, Ridley Scott's Blade
Runner is to this day one of thegreat films about what it is to
be human. It's genre.
(04:04):
It's it's great characters undergreat pressure.
He's a visual master. So I applied and he said, yes,
you know, come an intern and I read all of the scripts in the
vault. It was really great because I
really, you know, I really followed my oh, and, and I saw
real human beings interning and producers and executives and I
(04:25):
never actually met Ridley. He was doing a film at the time,
but that was really fantastic. And then years later I went back
to Australia, I became a director and I was directing,
you know, music videos and shorts and docos and, you know,
I did a feature film that got into Berlin Ali and won a prize.
(04:47):
And and then he, Ridley Scott brought his film Alien Covenant
back to Sydney Fox Studios. And I think literally 8000
people wanted to shadow him. And I think he watched my
feature film Satellite Boy and Iinterviewed with with Mark
(05:07):
Hoffman, the producer. Anyway, he selected me to shadow
him and I spent six weeks with him literally shoulder to
shoulder watching how he works. And he said to me, if you want
to die happy, my dear, you know,get a green card and move to the
States. And that was kind of, there was
this interesting full circle I'ddone.
I'd gone across America in a bongo van, read all the scripts
in his office, you know, and then was actually met him and
(05:31):
saw his process and, and I thought, yeah, I'm going to get
a green card and I'm going to dowhat he said.
Because when Sir Ridley Scott tells you to do something, you
just bloody do it. So anyway, so that was, that
was, I think I've probably vomited a very eclectic story of
(05:51):
my creative background, but you know, character first, visual
stylist, not afraid of hard work.
You know, I, one of the other things I did before I became a
film maker really was that I wasdoing cultural mapping in
Australia. So my dad's aboriginal.
So in Australia, there's very remote tribes living in various
(06:17):
sort of states of Australia. And sometimes maybe there's six
elders that, and they're the last language speakers.
And, and so I, I was doing cultural mapping and it would be
me as the sound recordist and a camera guy.
And we were two of us in a, in aToyota Fort, you know, Troopy.
And we would be going out in Spain, you know, like a week to
(06:39):
get to these communities and we would sit down and do it with
these elders. And we would, I would listen, we
would set it up and I would justlisten.
And I guess that was another influence in terms of my
creative background foundation is it taught me to listen, like
really listen because Aboriginalpeople don't do a lot of
(06:59):
talking. Their body language is really
that's kind of a good way in. And so there was nothing
prescriptive. I was just there respectfully
open to capture and grab their stories and for posterity.
And so I suppose as a filmmaker,now that I'm directing, you
know, I'm not writing any. I am writing, but predominantly
(07:23):
in my working life, I'm I'm directing.
I really have cultivated this sense of listening to the story,
what the visuals to and the actors really listen to what the
the actors are giving me on the 1st performance or even in the
pre conversations we have. Because I love to, you know,
chitchat before the work commences because that's part of
(07:46):
the work too. So yeah, that's a big vomit at
you. That was a beautifully eloquent,
winding Rd. of story. And I mean, what a profound gift
that is to save those languages that will one day not be spoken
anymore. I think that's such a, that's
(08:08):
such a unique and incredible gift to give not only
creatively, but just to the, to the universe.
Well, I had a feeling because like right before I, I have done
zoom, I was like reorganizing myquestions.
I'm a, I'm a nerd, I'm a note taker and I have all of my
little questions written. But I had a feeling that
probably the the conversation will go a little bit more versus
the the nuts and bolts of like actor advice to more of like
(08:32):
what you uniquely, what makes you you and your creative act
so. We're not going to.
We're not going to Chuck them because I am type A, but we're
going to just we're not going tolike really stay on a map.
But I would like to talk about Satellite Boy because I think
it's I wasn't able to find the full film, but I was able to
(08:53):
watch a lot of clips. And I know that it was it was in
Berlin's Film Festival and TIFF,if I remember correctly.
And how you wrote and directed. And I mean, just to look at it
with working with the two young men and, and the just the
extreme elements that you all were filming and how did the
project come about and what was the driving force?
Because it did not look like an easy shoot but more of a passion
(09:16):
project. Yeah, you know, satellite boy.
So again, I'm glad I talked about being adopted.
It was a love letter to my father's, both of my father's,
you know, that old man, the daily grind of kind of looking
after that young boy, I suppose was was was my to my adoptive
(09:39):
father. So, you know, when I first did
my very first short film, I'd gone to Tisch and I had had
well, there was sparkly was there he was lecturing and
teaching. And then there was Scorsese and
and you know, my very first short film was a boxing film.
(10:01):
It was a black and white boxing film and there were no
aboriginal actors that box. So I cast real boxes.
It was kind of a Pasolini, you know, let's use real people sort
of methodology. And that was interesting because
it was black and white. And then I basically went, well,
here we are in Redfern, which isa suburb of Sydney.
This is another hairy dog story to get me to satellite To get
(10:22):
you to satellite boy. I'm here for it.
This is what our audience loves.And so I'd done this film with
these boxes and these people anda real boxing coach trainer, and
we went to a real fight and thenwe popped our fight in the
middle of a real fight. So all the audience was there
(10:42):
for, you know, so it was kind oflike, I guess at the time, a
meld of documentary that I'd been doing and this kind of
moving towards drama. And it was all on location.
There was no sets, we had no money.
And it was and I did a couple ofprojects like that.
So when we got to, you know, I did it just as a sideline, I did
(11:03):
this project called, it was 1/2 hour.
I got a pre sale to a televisionstation.
It was called Road. And we only had enough money for
a ratio of two to one and we couldn't afford a lot.
So we shot 35 mil film in aroundthe ghetto of, you know, Sydney
with all non actors. And that was kind of a ballsy
(11:25):
move because I knew I had to deliver.
I had a pre sale to ATV station.I had to deliver this thing.
I had no money. And so we did all these crazy
kind of methodologies to make itwork.
So I was very, very kind of comfortable, uncomfortably
comfortable with that kind of scrappy approach.
So when it came to Satellite Boy, I'd written the story.
(11:46):
I wrote, project directed and produced it actually, which was
a lot. And it was a love letter to both
sides of my family, you know, and we went to, we went to a in
the Kimberley, which is a very remote part of Australia.
And there were literally crocodiles.
(12:06):
The most poisonous snake in the world is a Taipan snake.
Like it was really on one level really dangerous, but actually
incredibly beautiful. Like it's beautiful.
So and, and so these two young boys, Joseph Pedley and Cameron
Wallaby, they'd never acted before.
So I already had that background, you know, they, you
(12:27):
know, and in fact, I know that'sdifferent for Cameron now, but
he, you know, he, it was a much more of a verbal process than
him reading scripts. Like I told him the story and I
would talk about the scenes. So he, you know, so by the time
I got to satellite boy, we're inthe middle of we're all in
(12:49):
tents. There was no accommodation.
We were literally in tents in the middle of the desert.
There were literally because crocodiles, saltwater crocodiles
are vicious bastards and they will eat you without any kind of
qualms. I've seen a crocodile drag a
shark out of the salt out of theocean onto the beach and eat it
because like they're really, they're the apex, apex predator.
(13:13):
And so we had crocodiles and we were in tents and, you know, we
had people, you know, watching. We weren't totally, you know,
naive. We knew what we were getting
into and we had our checks and balances in place.
But, but you know, it was such abeautiful, you get something
when you're on location like that.
(13:34):
And we built the cinema. We built this abandoned cinema
because it's about dreams, you know, this little boy and his
dreams. And, and we kind of went between
Wyndham, Halls Creek and Canonara, which are very, that's
all, they're all little towns inthe in the Kimberley.
And we basically for five weeks,we just shot this crazy on
(13:56):
location film with non actors and got a lot of heart and, and
you know, like I think sometimesat the moment I'm doing the boys
and I love the boys. Believe me.
Eric Krooke is amazing. I'd do anything for the man.
I did Percy Jackson. It's I did 3 episodes of Percy
Jackson. You know, that's a big engine
with lots of like, it's like, I think it was like 3 feature
(14:19):
films. Every episode was this, you
know, with 10 telly handlers andyou know, working with
industrial light and magic with the, you know, this new cutting
edge technology. It was all very it's amazing.
Like I love learning, but there is something about being in the
middle of the fucking Bush. You get, you know, you've got
the light coming up, you've got the light going, you've got
(14:42):
these two amazing young men. I just think there's something
about, there was a film called Walkabout that was a British
film maker, I think. And he went to Australia and he
worked with David Goppler when he was a young man.
And it's a really simple film, but it's a deeply profound film.
And I think David Goppler was now 60 when he did Satellite
(15:04):
Boy. So that was, you know, but it
was a similar Rd. movie, but from an Indigenous point of
view. But it was sometimes simple.
Is hard to do, but it's good to do, you know?
Yeah. I would love to talk about where
you were writer, director, producer on Satellite Boy and
then you know you've referenced and we're going to talk about
(15:26):
the boys. What is easier for you
creatively Is it is it easier towear those multiple hats or to
be creative but in this machine where you are having to get the
sign off and approval from that dollar amount of the machine.
Yeah, I mean, it's like you can have a meal with, you can have a
(15:52):
picnic on the grass with three friends, or you can have a
dinner party with 10 or you can put on a a banquet with 100.
And I guess it's all, it's the same and yet it's a different.
I think the process, I mean my process, I really, I, you know,
for me to be on set and, and prepare for the work, it's not,
(16:14):
I'm technical like I rebuild cars.
I'm a beekeeper. I'm very comfortable with
technical stuff and film making.There is a part of it that's
technical. But I think more than anything I
really need to be clear spirit, like I need to be very clear and
be able to listen in, you know, like if you think of a flame
(16:35):
when it's fluttering, like I have to have that flame just
very still. Yeah, I, I don't want to be a
wanker, but I need to be centredin order to be able to really to
be present because I love what Ido.
And and so that is the same because for me, particularly for
(16:56):
the, you know, I'm being a little bit of a woolly dog here.
But I remember about seven yearsago, because, you know,
directing, you've got a lot of people and particularly going
from being a doco film, indie filmmaker to doing this, you
know, there's a there's a lot ofpeople.
I'm quite shy and there's, there's I'm NERV, you know, like
I'm, I really lean into, oh, what is the best shot to tell
(17:18):
this story cumulatively? But I realized that actors get
treated like shit. That's what I realized even in
America where they are the, you know, and I and I remember this
dawning realization that all of these actors that I grew up
looking these American actors onthe big screen, they were like,
(17:39):
they don't always get treated with respect.
They're often the last to know. And you know, it's, it's a
tricky dance for them as human beings.
And I and I, it shifted my process because I went, you
know, I was all about pulled shots and you know, all of that
(18:00):
stuff. And I remember thinking, Oh,
these people are the reason I'm watching and they don't get,
have a great access to any process except their own that's
outside of this big engine. So I shifted, I just, I just
shifted my, where I put my energies, I suppose.
(18:23):
And I just wanted to be much more aware of where they're at.
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a subtle thing.
It's not like I send them roses and and, you know, I don't kind
of harass them all, but I just wanted to develop a process that
was much more open and bringing them in.
(18:47):
Even though they're the star, I just as the director, like I'm
their first audience. So I just wanted to shift the
way that I was working with withactors.
Yeah, so. Yeah.
Even mind elaborating a little bit on that because I, I did
want to talk about when you are a guest director coming in, how
(19:08):
do you establish that trust and partnership?
How do you gain their trust and respect and let them know that
you're their partner in this couple of weeks of filming?
Well, Percy Jackson was six months.
But anyway, it was like, Oh my God.
I mean, I, I like to tell peoplewho I am.
I like to be really like, we have a, a term in Australia
(19:30):
called Dag. And I guess a dag is someone
who's so authentically themselves that they don't
really care how they come up. You know, I mean, without being
too eccentric, but I just like to be very open hearted and open
and present. What they see is what they get.
And so there's no surprises. There's no, I don't like to, as
much as I have an ego, I don't like to bring my ego into the
(19:51):
process. I really do like to be very
observant and I'm in the, I guess like on Percy Jackson, for
example, the actor said, oh, Cat's in the trenches with us.
She's really in there with us. And I was like, huh, you, you
never really know how other directors work, but I'm
certainly I, if there's a toe twitching, if there's a like,
(20:12):
I'm very OK. I like what you did there.
I that was interesting. How about we try this?
I'm always very present, particularly with them.
Like there's a lot going on. There's lighting and camera and.
There's continuity and there's, you know, there's, if someone to
help with that, but I really give my full open hearted
attention to what the ACT is doing in the moment.
(20:35):
And, and it just seems to work. I mean, actors are so smart, you
know, they're super smart individuals and I just think
they can smell bullshit a mile away.
And so I, I, I'm, I'm just clearof that.
I don't have that. I'm not interested in that as a,
as a human or as an artist. So I, I just try to be and you
(20:55):
know, I break down the script too.
I, you know, I'm quite old fashioned.
I break it. Every scene, every scene is
broken down into units and beatsand objectives.
And I have all of that at hand. I don't want to encumber them
with that stuff because I know they've done their own prep.
One of the first questions I'll ask any actor is how do you like
(21:15):
to work? And some of them go, oh, I don't
know. And some of them go, Oh, I need
my, it takes me a long time to get my lines.
I really need to go second. Or, you know, if it's emotional,
I need do the close up first or do the close up last because it
takes me a while to kind of get there.
And so I really kind of tailor my process to what they need
(21:38):
because I can tap dance with allthe tricks and the tech and
that, you know what I mean? Like I'm so comfortable on set,
like it doesn't matter, you know, So I really just try and
give them, you know, like a walkway into the process with me
where they get what they need because it doesn't matter to me.
Do you know what I mean? Like, unless the sun's going
(21:59):
down and and you know, we're losing light, like whatever the
actor needs is for me tantamountso.
I think sometimes as actors, themachine is running so quickly
and our thoughts are going so quickly and there's so much
emotion that's right under the surface and we don't think about
(22:20):
the people are taking in the thecraft and the art at that time.
We're just making sure that all the boxes are checked to then go
to the next scene. I think some so often you can
get caught in that trap and and forget the the craft and the art
of it there at the moment. It's interesting.
When I was at NYU Tisch, I was doing it.
I was a writer and I was doing anumber of courses to get me to
(22:43):
be a direct. I didn't realize it at the time,
but I was doing cinematography and I did a directing course.
And of course when you're with abunch of people and you all want
to be directors, you've got to act direct someone.
So we ended up acting for each other as well.
And I never forget this. I was in a scene from Death in
the Maiden, a really hectic scene from Death in the Maiden,
(23:05):
and I think the scene was fine. I was so traumatized by having
to do that scene. Like I was like, I am not cut
out to be an actor. And I remember the fear and the
terror of being in that scene with it was a 2 hander.
And, you know, I just discoveredthat the guy who had tortured me
was the man that was, you know, had come back.
(23:26):
And anyway, I had deep respect for the actor.
And, you know, someone said it'sthe 20 minutes before actors
leave their trailers which is the most terrifying.
And I was like, OK, I'm going tobe the most compassionate
scaffold because what? Like what does nothing else
(23:47):
matters? Like people get all excited
about the camera department and the cinematographer and the
light and the lenses. Actually, for me, the most
important department is costume because costume is what the
actor puts on and you know, props because props can be what
an actor will pick up in a scene.
And so I've just, I guess I've just developed a great, a deeper
(24:13):
understanding for what an actor goes through, and my job is to
make that a better experience. When you first receive your
script, how do you, with the writer and the director of mind,
go through and start studying and letting your creativity
flow, but also discovering the objectives of each scene and
(24:34):
what the episode's purpose is inthe season as a whole?
I always like to give myself a couple of hours of no, like I
like to be quiet and just sit down and read it in one go.
I always make notes. Anything that comes into my
brain, I just write it down. I've I've in a big episodic kind
(24:55):
of way. I mean, I've, I watch every I
did it. I think my very first directing
was How to Get Away with Murder and it was the final season.
It was Viola Davis, who is amazing.
And I had literally flown in from Central Western Desert and
I was in LA and it was Viola Davis and I anyway, it was the
(25:16):
sixth season. So I watched every single
episode of that show because I wanted, I mean, I was shooting
myself. I was so nervous because, you
know, it's not just it's. Anyway, it's Viola, yes.
But you know, so, so I, I read the script, but I want to
understand the context that the story fits into so that that's
the prep that I do. So I read it as like, do I
(25:41):
understand it? Do I understand it as a story?
If there's any gaps, like does it work as a story?
I've got dumb questions. I'll, I've always write my dumb
questions because there's inevitably there's, there's
like, I don't understand why they're doing this.
And sometimes it's because I don't understand the context or
maybe there is a bit of a script, you know, air gap there.
(26:05):
And I just, I love to go throughand just break up the scenes
with units and beats and objectives for the, for the
actors. So I really understand the shape
of the scene. You know, I have ideas about the
objective that the actor will play.
I know that that's a particular way of a language to, to, you
(26:27):
know, like I've worked with actors who want to analyse the
asshole out of Milton's comma because they're theatre actors
and, and they need that kind of technical kind of deconstruction
in order to understand. And then I have worked with
actors that, that they just go, is it more pink or more orange?
Like they're really intuitive and I just want to do and I
(26:51):
don't mind. It doesn't bother me as long as
I understand how they want to work.
And so I have my process and it's kind of breaking it down
and, and these are the objectives.
But you know, like an actor is going to show me, they're going
to show me what what you know, and, and then we'll have a
conversation about it. And it's always a conversation
(27:15):
about the meaning we're created,creating and how it's
interfacing with the rest of thework.
It's like a big beautiful spiderweb.
It's actually for me more like asong.
I feel like they come at it likeit's we're composing a song
together. So those notes, you know, how
(27:35):
they're sitting in the overall thing and that's about rhythm
and cadence and all sorts of things.
But yeah, for me, the very firstread is everything and I just
need to go, do I understand it? What is it?
Oh, you know, like it's a, it's a lovely curious leaning into to
(27:55):
what it could be. And then I break it down and
then it sort of ends up coming back together again.
With actors having different processes and them sharing that
with you of you know, whether they really want to get into the
minutiae or they are more aura and vibes.
Do you find the main key to success or I don't want to say
(28:17):
key to success, do you? We'll say it.
It's what makes a great scene, the actor knowing how they
process and understand. It's not how they get there,
it's just them knowing themselves.
It's interesting because, you know, often I'll say it's a bit
(28:38):
of a conceit because particularly in television, I
always create the illusion that we have all the time in the
world and we can take our time and we can have conversations
and the first aid is going. I always make my days, but but I
do and so towards that I'll often.
(29:01):
So do one for yourself. We've got I think I'm happy with
what I've got. Do one for yourself.
Have a, you know, try something different or bucket.
Just do just do one because you know for yourself and it's
interesting. Often that's the one that's
something sort of extraordinary comes out because suddenly, oh,
(29:22):
we've got it, there's No Fear. Oh, she's happy.
Oh fuck it, I'm going to do this.
And sometimes that is the take where something surprising comes
out which is interesting or different.
And sometimes the first take, you know, I'll give notes.
Like I can't. It's interesting too.
As a director in episodic, like I have to give notes.
(29:43):
I can't deal with 1 take. I mean, I've been told you have
to do more. You know, there's safety of the
tape if something wrong, glitch in the digital zeros and ones,
whatever I like. And I'm also interested in doing
performance options because maybe it's going to help create,
you know, the scene in post. It's a little bit interesting,
(30:07):
but so those two, you know, likesometimes the first takes the
best and sometimes the ones where the for shits and giggles
1 is the best because, and I don't know what that means about
the actor, whether you know someone who's really
comfortable. Like I work with Paul Reiser,
amazing. He's an amazing, consummate,
(30:29):
incredible actor. I mean, Viola Davis, I mean,
actors love direction and they also know their own process for
themselves. And that interface is for me,
the really interesting kind of part of the process because
someone like Viola Davis or PaulReiser, like they fuck, they
(30:51):
know what they're doing, but actually, and I know what I'm
doing. So, but somehow that that rather
of it all can be, can be the most interesting surprise of the
scene. You know, I don't know if I
answered your question. But no, you did.
And I, I was like, I was listening to you.
I appreciate you. You understood what I was trying
(31:12):
to say. And I think in seasons of quiet
and when there are growing painsin the industry, there is a lot
that is kind of thrust upon actors of if you study here,
this will make a difference. If you do this, it will make a
difference. And I try to always get ahead of
that as much as I can. You know, that's why I started
(31:32):
the podcast was to lower that that barrier of access for
education and understanding and,and hearing creative
conversations. And I think for me, what I have
found is, you know, me understanding my process and
remembering that we are here to play and create it.
It is so freeing. But there is.
(31:52):
So again, it's just it's it's it's environment kind of
stifling art. And that was that was what I was
was trying to get at. But you you understood.
So thank you so much. Thank.
You so it's really tricky I meanwhen we think talk about the
casting, you know, as AI, sometimes I there's no casting
to be done when I come onto an episode, sometimes there's
(32:15):
casting to be done big little sometimes I'm putting someone in
that's going to have a you know,be a major cast member across
the season. Sometimes they're day players,
but that process is interesting because as an actor, like I'll
give my top three top five and then the producers and then the
(32:39):
network and the studio and, and there are fine, fine actors
doing beautifully nuanced performances and they don't get
the role. And it's, it's I'm devastated
for them. Like I'm like, oh, fuck, really?
You went with that? You were the oh, and you know,
or they're, and they're all valid, but I just go, you
(33:02):
couldn't see that this, this wasthe, this and it's just this
thing because it, you know, likeI can, I'll fight for an actor,
but at the end of the day, I don't always get my pick.
And, and sometimes there's 20 actors who've submitted like
it's, it's a tough gig, you know, And I honestly don't know
(33:22):
whether the, the, whether you'vestudied with this or that or
here or there. I don't know what it is.
I think about that a lot. So, yeah, but I couldn't, like I
said, I went into therapy after doing Death in the Maiden.
It was devastating for me. It was too much.
You opened yourself up a little too much to that experience.
(33:43):
We've all been there. We've, we've, I think if, if
we're being honest, every actor,there was at least one or two
roles that they probably needed to talk to a professional
afterwards to get get back leveled at a zero.
You've worked on several shows with a huge element of stunts,
special effects. And that's something I've been
(34:03):
working on for an upcoming project with SAG AFTRA talking
about stunt coordinators and setsafety.
So it's something I'm, I'm very immersed in right now.
And I would love to hear how when you approach the work, how
you connect with your stunt coordinator and stunt performers
as well as your actors that are,you know, stepping into the
scene, how you orchestrate the the action, but also the
(34:28):
emotional elements of those scenes because it is ultimately
all there in service of story. Yes, you know, I did this show
called Echo and I, Al Aqua Cox was the lead actress and she's
deaf and she's also she has one leg and it was a pretty stunt
heavy, you know, and so and alsoI didn't know her and also she
(34:53):
was quite new to acting. She'd been in Hawkeye and then
she'd come in. So she was not a seasoned actor
as well. And I just went and sat and
watched her rehearsing in stunts.
I wasn't I didn't. I just sat quietly and I just
watched her and I can just feel what you know, just to see what
she was comfortable with and what was her and and all.
(35:15):
And she kind of progressed across the series too.
So, but I, I never want to put anyone in a situation where
they're not physically comfortable.
Do you know what I mean? Like I, I, like, I remember once
I did this Walking Dead episode and it was a week before Rust
and the, that incident and, and I, you know, the question was,
(35:38):
do you want to, shall we use blanks?
And I said, no, no, a muzzle flash is VFX $0.50.
It doesn't. We're not using blanks.
We're not going to do it. We're not going to have any of
that. And I so just in general, I want
safety first for everyone, whether it's that, whether it's
stunts, like whether it's physical fighting or, you know,
(36:02):
but again, I do come, you know, So having said that, getting to
know the people actually doing it, it's always about character
and story and it's character 1st.
And it is emotion first, becauseI mean, it doesn't, if it's, if
it's just action for action sake, it's kind of noise.
It doesn't mean anything. So I'm as much as I do.
I mean, my last episode of the boys last season was this like
(36:25):
we, we destroyed the flat iron. We it was so, but it was
hopefully it was emotional as well.
You know, like that's, that's what really sells it for me.
So whenever I'm talking with thestunt coordinator and I love
this stuff too. Like I like I said, I rebuild
cars. I'm like, I like going fast.
I've got cousins and my uncle is, you know, they're racing car
(36:48):
drivers and, and we're total Revheads, you know, like I love all
that stuff. But really it is about when I'm
talking to the, you know, John Koyama on the Boys or Trevor
Addie or Eli on Percy Jackson, they're Canadians.
It's all about character and emotion in service of story.
(37:09):
And so they'll always offer something up and I'll go, oh,
that's good. But because of this, can we die?
And of course, like, yeah, no one reason.
So it's really, it has to be about character in service of
story and emotion for me. I'm a very Sookie.
I don't know if you have that word Sookie, but Sookie in
(37:29):
Australia means really emotional.
So it's got to move me. It's got to make me feel
something. Otherwise it's just like just
like noise. So it's always a conversation.
It's always a conversation firstabout story and character.
And then they'll show me and then I'll another conversation
and then they'll show me. And then, you know, the, you
know, the stunt performers are so intelligent in terms of what
(37:53):
they give. So it's, it's many beautiful
conversations that bring us to that point when we're filming.
And even then they make adjustments depending upon, you
know, the light or the whatever it is.
We actually had the composer of the boys on the podcast in the
past season, and it was so fascinating to hear all of the
(38:13):
thought and all of the detail that was going into those
conversations to just that finalPolish of the emotional element
and the period of the exclamation mark.
And fascinating. Music is where it's at.
The Republic of Sarah Youserved as Co EP and director of two
episodes. How did that project come about
and was it liberating having that Co EP perspective and say
(38:41):
in your director's chair? That was interesting.
I had been in America six months.
COVID happened. My son was 10, school shut down.
I got this opportunity. I, you know, I, I've done 4
pilots in Australia. I've done a movie, you know, so
I'm, and I'm like a Mama bear, you know, like I do like, I love
(39:05):
being on set and I, I love the process.
I got this opportunity and I putmy son and two rescue cats
because I'd rescued these cats. You know, every, when COVID hit,
by the way, every sane Australian went back to
Australia because it's like freehealthcare and it's an island
and no germs can get in. And we'll be right.
And well, I didn't. I just rescued these two cats.
(39:28):
Yeah, I was going to say I had friends in America that went to
Australia and New Zealand to hunker down.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you, you went the opposite
way. Well.
You've been adopted and, and I understand what it is to be
rescued. And so I'd rescued these two
kittens and I was like, I can't just Chuck them out on the
street again. Like can't do it.
So we stayed and I ended up driving in I, I basically took
(39:55):
five weeks to drive from LA to Montreal to start the job.
And we went to Lake Tahoe. We went, we went all across
America. It was actually fabulous.
It's quite a kind of amazing road trip in the midst of the
world was ending. You know, we had these two
rescue kittens and my son was 10and we've just fucking went.
It was amazing. But a memory that he'll always
(40:18):
have like, that's incredible. You can talk to him because he's
like, mom, you will. Anyway, so we were there.
I mean, virtual school was hellacious.
He wasn't missing anything. Yeah, yeah, He, he would get up.
Well, you know, he got up, he started school in Montreal at
12, which was 9:00 in LA So actually he had a pretty good.
(40:38):
He would sleep in, he would start school.
He but and it's so so the Republic of Sierra was during
COVID and it was you know, the the I can't there's not enough
space in the screen. Like the sort of the health and
safety manuals that we were given was outrageous.
So it was troll. I mean, it was my first
(41:01):
producing director job in America and it was hectic
because people were scared. You know, we had people having
nervous breakdowns because they was scared they were going to
die. So it was not a normal
situation. So I actually love being a
producing director because I do love to be able to scaffold the
(41:25):
directors coming in and the actors and like, I love being
out, you know, with transport and setting up where the
trailers go. So everyone like I love, you
know, like I'm like I rebuild the engines and you know, I'm
very technical. So I do love, you know, I
restore old cars. So I'm into all of that stuff.
(41:45):
So I enjoyed it. And I guess it's just a
different, it's a producing thing.
So I understand production. I know how we have to make our
days. I understand that there's money.
And and so as creative as I am within the directing process,
I'm always cognizant of there's money.
There's a bit of string. This is all you get.
(42:06):
You don't get 2 inches more. This is what you got.
You got to make it work. So I understand that.
So I, I think it might be, I think it was easier to direct to
having done that because I came in, you know, I'd been like, we
would like writers write what they want.
(42:27):
And despite the fact that and, and Jeffrey Paul King's an
amazing writer, but, you know, there were moments where actors
needed to kiss, but they couldn't kiss because it was
COVID. They couldn't be within, you
know, So we would, we developed these latex masks with breathing
tubes so that because there's certain ways you can set up
shots so it looks like they're kissing, but for that actual
(42:48):
kiss. Like we were doing all sorts of
wacky things just to try and honour the script, you know, So
it was an unusual time and. But yeah, but I, I think being
that producing director, executive producer allowed me to
(43:08):
work more closely with the crew because I had been there for the
duration and the actors trusted me.
And, you know, we'd sort of beenthrough the grinder a bit
together. So it was kind of, yeah, it was.
I think it made it easier to be honest.
Yeah, you definitely do not shy away from a challenge I respect.
That. I respect.
(43:30):
That Well, you know what you cando?
You're gonna, you can't. You gotta keep moving forward.
Exactly. Well Speaking of challenges,
Rescue High Surf is such a high octane show that also shoots
authentically in the elements onlocation in Hawaii.
What gifts or challenges does that present as the director?
(43:51):
You know, I, so I, you know, John Wells for me is, is the guy
like he called me after my Ed and I said I and I was on set
filming and I, I probably shouldn't have anyway, but it
was a very clipped conversation.But I said, John, you, I've know
people that have worked with youand with you and for you and you
are one of the good guys. And I wanted to do that show
(44:13):
because of him. You know, there was a strange
film called Animal Kingdom and he took the rights and he made
that into ATV series and you know, he's amazing and so shame
what everything you know, and and I understand he is a bit of
a RIP shit and boss kind of guy.Like he does like to go scrappy
handheld and I love that becausethat's where I started.
(44:34):
You know, scrappy handheld in the middle of the Bush with
actors or non actors is definitely, you know, like I'm
comfortable with that. So and Hawaii is beautiful.
It's halfway between Sydney and LA, So we've been there quite a
bit, you know, as a stopover formy son because he can't fly too
far. And so he said handheld on the
(44:56):
beach. And I was like, no lighting, no
grips, no like no cranes, no tracks, no toys, no toys,
handheld on the beach. And I was like, OK, all right,
but you know what it was, it wasso cool because it really was
actors in the sand. My calf muscles were like, I was
(45:17):
toned when I got back from Hawaii running in the sand.
But it was, it was, it was actually a beautiful experience.
It was we had, there was a camera operator called Ruben.
We had a scene, couple of Aussies actually were, were in
the cast too. That was fun.
We had a scene where there was the, you know, one of the
(45:37):
lifeguards coming up the beach on an ATV sees a fight, you
know, intervenes with the fight.So we put a camera operator
strapped him to the sort of heldhim onto the front of the ATV
and we were moving. We we did a couple of different
versions, but we discovered waysto add movement to that handheld
(45:59):
and that was just, it gave it its own distinctive style.
I loved it. The past were fantastic.
Ariel and Bobby like it was, it was amazing.
So again, all actors with beautiful in a beautiful place,
yeah. You know, it's so, it's so
(46:20):
incredible. I, I myself was a lifeguard and
whenever I see shows like that, I'm always kind of looking for
the tricks I'm looking for, likewas it shot in the tank?
And it's it's so impressive whatthey have been able to
accomplish and you can tell it took so much heart and so much
fight to get it to that level ofauthenticity.
Alaska Daily was a show I absolutely loved.
(46:43):
Hilary Swank is such a force andjust a beautiful human being.
Was devastated that it only got one season.
Do you have any favorite memories from the set?
I mean, I love that show. I was, you know what?
And I love Hilary. She is an authentic, awesome
human being. She's got integrity and strength
(47:04):
and I have deep respect, admiration for her.
Again, that was a show where I feel like, you know, all of that
stuff that I started off with, you know, like as in a doing all
of my indigenous film making andsuddenly here is this amazing
opportunity to bring the missingAlaskan women, this native story
(47:24):
with Hilary Swank, Like it doesn't get any better.
Like it was like, OK, this is the sweet spot.
This has actually felt like I was, I was built for it.
So for me, you know, I always try and have like on Republic of
Sierra, whenever there's an assistant, I, I wanted a native
assistant because I want to bring it, you know, play it
(47:45):
forward. And so, you know, there were
just opportunities to work with actually some of the people that
I'd worked with kind of knew of from Echo.
I was able to, you know, bring one of the actors mums I cast
in, you know, in Alaska daily, aNative woman.
(48:06):
So it just felt it felt easy. It was a delight to work with
her. She's very detailed as an actor.
She's very, it's very distilled and combed through and it's very
it's that beautiful combination of she's technically on point,
(48:29):
but it's never technical. It's always elevated.
It's very alive and nuanced. And then she has a stillness to
her as an actor that's terrific.And but there's there's always
wheels turning. Like it was great.
You know, I just worked with Kevin Bacon on this bondsman at
Amazon, and he's the same, you know, really integris authentic
(48:50):
human being, very technically, you know, but the detail as an
actor that he brings is terrific.
So again, you know, it's really,it's great fun to work with
them. Yeah.
I can't believe it's that time. We close every episode the same
way. What is one thing you wish you
could go back and tell your younger self?
(49:13):
Trust the process. I guess that's it.
Trust the process. Hey, thank you so much for
joining us on What's My Frame. This is bed my artistic soul in
a way I cannot describe it with such a joy to listen to your
stories and your experiences andinsight.
Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening and being
(49:34):
the absolute best part of our creative community here at
What's My Frame. If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame to stay in the know for
upcoming events. I'm your host, Laura Linda
Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
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