September 15, 2025 • 50 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Casting Director, Julie Tucker. Julie has a remarkable career spanning over two decades. Recognized for her outstanding contributions to the industry, Julie is a two time Emmy winner and five time Artois Award winner for her excellence in casting. Notable credits include DOC, The Oscar nominated short “Red White & Blue and SHERIFF COUNTRY coming to CBS this Fall.
Today Julie shares invaluable advice for actors on how we can hold space for ourselves while self taping, insight into her research on the nervous system and upcoming book. This episode is filled with great advice and a lot of laughs, thanks to Julie and I both honoring our inner 15 year old musical theatre nerd. Now let's dance it out and get to the conversation!
Additional notable credits include The Expanse,The Americans, The Affair, Nurse Jackie Fallout. Damages (Emmy and Artios Award), Six Feet Under (Emmy and Artios Award for NY Casting), Rescue Me (Artios Award), and Homeland (Artios Award).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hi everyone. Today on What's My Frame I'm
doing my casting director Julie Tucker.
Julie has a remarkable career spanning over 2 decades.
Recognized for outstanding contributions to the industry.
Julie is a two time Emmy winner and five time Artios Award
winner for her excellence in casting.
Notable credits include Doc, theOscar nominated short Red, White
and Blue and Sheriff Country coming to CBS this fall.
(00:25):
Today Julie shares invaluable advice for actors on how we can
hold space for ourselves when self taping, insight into her
research on the nervous system, and upcoming book.
This episode is filled with great advice and lots of laughs
thanks to Julie and I both honoring our inner 15 year old
musical theater nerd. Now let's dance it out and get
to the conversation. Hey, Julie.
(00:50):
Welcome to What's my frame? How you doing?
I'm. Good.
Thank you, Laura. How about yourself?
I am great. I'm very excited for this
conversation. I, I, I love the opportunity to
sit down and chat selfishly withpeople that I admire their work.
I admire your creative voice and, and your vision.
And so for anyone who isn't familiar with your prolific
(01:10):
career and and the the differentchapters and iterations of your
career, would you mind just starting us out with what drew
you to the arts and some of the pivotal mentors and
opportunities that help shape your creative voice?
Sure. Oh, wow.
I mean, you know, there's nature, nurture and necessity,
(01:32):
right? So for me, I feel like from the
moment I was born, this was the arts was my thing and the
curiosity and it was the world for me that engaged me and
helped me to make sense of things around me.
And then I was really fortunate because, you know, my parents
(01:56):
were incredibly artsy and artistic.
I mean, my mother especially, she loved the theater.
She's somewhat obsessed with it.I would find her like signed
playbills of like Julie Andrews of all the shows, you know, like
it was amazing. And so, like, before I was even
going to Broadway, there were like these amazing playbills
that she had from when she wouldgo and see shows and wait at the
stage door and have actors sign her playbills.
(02:18):
I know it's amazing. And, you know, and my father
loved the arts also he, I think especially classical music.
So I was always growing up with various sounds around me in
terms of music, movement, dance.My mom was also it.
Yeah, I guess because it was, I mean, a choreographer.
She still is by her nature, a choreographer.
(02:41):
She just does a choreographed dance right now, I would say.
And so my father was very into the classical music.
My mother, you know, modern dance was her thing.
She had like a dance studio, which is kind of amazing because
like I grew up in Tallahassee, FL for the most part, right?
So like it was, I think the way I made sense the world and very
(03:05):
much, you know, when you think about the necessity of it, the
arts is how I found my way to fit in and found my way to feel
comfortable in uncomfortable situations constantly.
Or at least actually, I think I'd revise that.
I would say it's how I found a way through with the discomfort,
you know, so, and, and immediately was smitten with it.
(03:28):
I mean, there's pictures of me as like a kid and I'm just like,
I'm entranced watching a performance.
I'm just like, I don't even knowhow old I am, but I'm just there
present and completely involved and pulled into everything
that's happening. So it was like basically my
nature from the get go and then very much nurtured in the
environment I, I grew up within and, you know, had a dance
(03:53):
studio. So like I had this incredible
open space all the time to like put on music and just like dance
like a maniac or sing like a maniac, whatever I felt like
doing. And I also kind of like from
that moment also really from an early age also was working
because there was a, a family business.
So I was answering phones. And so I was learning very much
(04:13):
a professional personality at a very young age.
And since I was acting also at avery young age, it was kind of
like, you know, you learn how to.
And the most amazing thing aboutacting is that, like, whether
you go into professionally or not, those skill sets will carry
you through almost anything, right?
So, yeah, so those skills as a kid taught me very fast how to
(04:38):
interact, how to have like a phone voice because, you know,
we used phones way back then, how to drop my register, you
know what I mean? And like all the things that I
would need later in a career, I became very comfortable with
very early on and interacting with adults and, and also other
kids. And, and I've never really told
(04:59):
it from this perspective. So it's interesting to kind of
journey through it from that part of my origin story as
opposed to like when I come out of college, because that's
usually where I always think of my origin story.
But when you ask me this time, Ikind of went back to the dance
studio in Tallassee, Florida of like really where it began.
And I think that there's a lot of us out there that are, you
(05:20):
know, we just, we're just, this is just who we are from the get
go. And that's how we make sense of
the world. That's that's what I feel like
artists do, whatever their art form is, kind of either make
sense of it or, or inform other people what they think it is.
And, and so you know what, I wasgrowing up in Tallahassee, FL,
went to a performing arts high school for a year in Alabama,
(05:43):
went away often with to this amazing camp in upstate New
York. French woods.
It's like everybody there's likestage 4 manner in French woods
when you get into the industry and it's kind of amazing.
They're like, I know I'm a French woods kid.
And, and so I also got exposed very fast to the the theater
(06:04):
and, and, and people that were doing it, kids that were doing
it at a professional level because, you know, friends that
were an Annie who were at FrenchWoods.
And of course I was obsessed with Annie.
I was that kid that like woke up, put on the album and belted
out the songs. I don't know how my parents
survived me. It's a solid album.
As someone who like taught dancefor many, many years, I also
have to just really quickly touch on like we cannot
(06:26):
underestimate the value of dancing it out in an open like
dance studio. I stated that job for a solid
year longer than I wanted to because I had keys to that
studio. 100% there's something to it, you know, like.
Dance to that, yeah. I always still have to do it.
It's a, you know, therapy for me, absolutely.
Well, I mean, we can talk about that later, but movement is
(06:46):
essential. It's basically if you don't
move, you don't, you die. I mean it's.
It's. Essential on so many different
levels right and you know, just have this big open space just
like turn on the music and just start your own shows.
I mean that's basically that wasthe kid I was and so I went off
(07:07):
to like performing arts high school for a year in Alabama.
It was a public school, which isreally amazing.
We did, you know, camp. And then my parents moved up to
New Jersey, which was amazing because then I was like a
stone's throw from like everything I've been reading
about in all my books. Yeah.
So we moved to Westfield, NJ, and so I could take the train to
(07:29):
like HV Studios. And, you know, I was reading
respect for, I mean, not respectfor acting.
I was, that's who I was. I just lived in those books.
An actor prepares Stanislavski. It's like this is what I was
reading, you know, from basically 16 on.
And then I went off to Conservatory.
Eventually I did Governor Schoolof the Arts, went off to
Conservatory for a couple years and had had very much that
(07:55):
experience. But I think we all that, that I
wouldn't say we all, well, I guess somebody you encounter it
at some point on your journey, you encounter the toxic teacher
who's kind of the guru of the school.
And so I, I had that experience freshman year and came back
sophomore year because I, I needed to figure out for myself
(08:16):
what I wanted, not just have oneauthority figure kind of say
something to me. And you know, like I know now
that there's no right way, right?
There's no one form of acting. There's no one form of being an
artist. And it is, you know, it's
something I feel really passionate about for other
people. And certainly as a casting
(08:36):
director in my own seat, to offer that constantly to both
the actors that I see on self tapes that come in, they're in
my zooms, wherever the, you know, it is, but also to the the
creative people that I work withtoo.
It's a constant part of how the framework of my values and how I
operate from because that experience was a lot at that
(09:01):
age. And I think that when we're 18
to 20, you know, I understand the idea of, of the kind of tell
it like it is approach and I getthat.
But if we're going to do that, we have to make sure the people
(09:21):
that were doing that to have thefoundational stuff first to
manage that information. And they're not really giving
that to you at that stage. It's part of I think
conservatories and training programs is a part of the
learning that's skipped. And until you have that and you
have to have that cause the business is going to be really
tough. And that's what people will say.
You know, people will say, well,as conservatories are tough
(09:43):
because that's the way the business is.
OK, yes. And you still have to give
people some foundational structures to take in that
information. And that's what they're going to
need, whether they go into this or don't you know, they, they're
going to, you know, actors, humans all need some really
(10:05):
basics about how our own systemsoperate and how we can take care
of ourselves as we interact withother systems.
But so through that, I still want to come back and kind of
like, well, what do I feel aboutmyself as an actor and how do I
(10:25):
feel about it? And this is one person telling
me something, right? And so I came back and, like,
flew through all my juries, all flying colors, no problems.
Everybody's like you, you know, like I got all the stamps of
approval, so to speak. And then I chose not to stay.
It wasn't for me anymore. It just, you know, like it.
(10:45):
That was the path to another path.
So sometimes, like our, I alwayssay, sometimes we have gateway
dreams. And so 1 dream is, is a gateway
to the actual next thing or to our Dharma or to what, what it
is, what we're, our purpose is here.
But it's not the dream. It's not the end result.
It's just part of a process. And I had started to see that
constantly very early on in my freshman year at the
(11:06):
Conservatory in terms of like, you know, I was.
There were just other interest Ihad within the theater,
including directing and writing and analyzing plays and seeing
other people in roles. Shocking.
Constantly thinking, oh, that person would be so great in this
role. I loved auditioning.
Ironically shocking. So there was like so much about
(11:32):
this where I ended up, what the seed in life I ended up with
that was foreshadowed in these days.
And so I went, I went off to Bennington, which was an
amazing, amazing experience. Off to Vermont in a small
liberal arts school in the rolling hills right outside of
Williamstown, you know, right outside of Massachusetts, like
15 minutes in Williamstown and just was the most extraordinary.
(11:55):
I mean, I walked on that campus,everyone like wore black.
I was like, I found my people, you know, so like, and it was
just like, you know, we no, no one there knew really how to
begin. You just did, you constantly
just jumped into a project and you did.
And the the teachers had an authority, but at the same time
really your own you. There was a collective kind of
(12:18):
consciousness that it was reallysure, sure, sure.
That's that's good. They feel that way.
But where am I in all this? Where do how do I carve out my
space here? And you have these gorgeous
theaters and all this, like, community to to do that kind of
work and ask those questions of yourself.
Yeah. So that that was really an
extraordinarily influential timein my life.
(12:39):
And I'm still close with so manyof those people that I knew that
and close with people that I didn't know that.
And, you know, but OK. So like you go and then you
come, but no one teaches you howto replicate that.
Yeah, it's like you open the door, you come out of school and
bam, it's like literally you stumble right out the door.
And I watch so many people go through this.
(13:00):
I mean, they're just, it's probably one of the most awkward
times of your life because you're like, yay, I'm here.
I got I got through all this andnow what?
And now suddenly the metrics of your entire life are defined
differently. So.
So I really fortunate I landed an incredible internship at the
Public Theatre. I mean, so when you're asked
(13:22):
like the influences, that's my influence.
Like that's that's how I learnedto cast.
That is how I learned to value system.
I mean, that is how I learned how to hold space And did I know
I wanted to cast in that moment?No, that's the irony of the
whole thing. I still was like, let me go
check this out. Check that casting wasn't like a
profession at that moment in time.
(13:42):
It really, you know, it's it wasn't a class on casting.
Six months to the public was like, I mean, there was no other
class you ever needed. I mean, that was that was it.
And so I went off and worked with directors Martin Charnin,
who wrote Annie, you know, with the lyricist of Annie.
(14:02):
I worked with him for years. I was so blessed.
I mean literally, like it took all of me not to sing this song
about tomorrow. I was gonna say, did you ever
like like in his mind? No, no.
OK, Right. You're a stronger woman than I.
Oh, I know, I mean takes all of me when I see Bernie Telsey and
all his team and not break out into some wicked song.
So like, you know, like the inner 15 year old still lives
strong in me, but I just. Like, it's good to see me, yeah.
(14:27):
I just say exactly, we hang in the shower and sing out a song,
You know what I mean? So like, I'm not gonna like, I'm
like, I hear you, but and I appreciate.
I mean, I'm so grateful for her.But yeah.
So I worked with Martin for likeyears on the sequel to Annie and
other and many other projects inbetween working for Martin.
(14:47):
I had I had a set of skills I had learned.
I couldn't waitress, I couldn't type, but I had learned these
administrative skills to go workwithin the industry as really a
floating assistant. So I was like my own floating
assistant out in all of New York.
So like I would go work at agent's office when an assistant
would go away, when a casting assistant would go away, I'd,
I'd plop in. So like that was my head in
(15:10):
between job and then I'd go backand work with Marty.
And then I also, I met Terrence Malick and worked with Terry off
and on too. I, you know, so those, those two
men influenced me greatly. They were in in my relationship
with them. I always felt seen and heard,
(15:32):
even when I was somewhat ridiculous.
But there were moments I was also brilliant, I will say.
But they were always gentlemen within that, you know, they were
there. They were, there was always a
level of kindness and respect. And I so those were things, more
values that I, I learned in my early years by how, you know, by
how people influenced me. Yeah.
(15:54):
Wow, you just like throw my questions out now.
I, I have like so many new ones,but I, I also, I just want to
say thank you for sharing that about that teacher and their,
their delivery, because I, I don't think that that's
something that we talked about nearly enough.
And I, I think you're exactly right.
We've all experienced that in one environment or another and
(16:19):
it can absolutely shake your confidence and, and, and change
your, your direction. But also, especially in those
formative years, we don't have the confidence or other mentors
yet perhaps to reground us. So I'm so glad you found your
people, but I appreciate you yousharing that because that's why
(16:42):
I talk about mentorship so much on the podcast is because I
think that that's so important, especially for young creatives,
to have the people that remind you of your why when you lose
that. Yeah.
I'm curious now in your career, what draws you to a project when
you've had the opportunity to play in so many sandboxes and
with so many different creatives, You've worked on some
(17:03):
of my favorite projects. What draws you to a project or
who and and what elements draw you to that amount of time that
you're going to be spending withthese these characters and these
creatives? It's a great question.
Material clearly always material, but I also think when
(17:24):
you when you said who like the people I'm going to spend time
with and also the people that I'm going to send all of you to
spend time with, right? So like, I really feel strongly
that like the about work environments, right?
(17:46):
So the work environments and, and, and not, you know, not it's
so scary with this second version of the Part 2 of Devil
Wears Prada coming like shootingright now, the Devil Wears Prada
culture, like that's done, you know what I mean?
Like for me, I grew up with thatbeing the normalized kind of
(18:08):
culture that I lived in, right? Especially when I was doing the
work in the theater and it was normalized and it's not normal.
And I'm hopeful with the movie that in this era we're in, we're
not bringing it back, but. Yeah, I'm hoping that the the
Anne Hathaway dancing down the street like those.
(18:30):
Exactly the romance, exactly theROM com, the chick flick, fine
sign of it, not the Devil Wears Prada side of it.
But yeah, it's really important the The Who those people are,
how they how they operate and sothat I know how they'll work,
(18:50):
how that environment on this setwill be for all of y'all, you
know, and I take great pride in hearing how how good an
experience was for an actor likethat, that, you know, I don't
have a say over the set, but I'mtrying my best to choose the
projects that are leaning into that.
You can't look, you can't alwaysknow.
(19:11):
You can't always know. There's so many.
I mean, there's so many, there'sso many factors that go into
making a television show, especially and and and there's
nothing harder than making Noel.There's plenty harder than
making television within the structure of entertainment it.
Is one of the hardest. It's really hard.
It's it's a grueling process. They're making little movies in
eight days. And there's never enough time or
(19:32):
money. No, no.
But I appreciate you sharing that because I don't, I don't
think I've ever heard from casting's perspective talking
about being mindful of where you're sending these actors
because you are the, the first line of the creative that we
interact with and, and share ideas on this character and, and
(19:52):
collaborate with. And then we, we go on.
You know, it's, it's often I feel like casting is, is the
start of summer camp and then wego off and, and we don't get to
get to like reconnect and talk about it.
So I'm glad you shared that. And that's, that's really
meaningful because I've, I've been really fortunate.
Most every set I've ever walked on has been from the top of the
call sheet down. It's been an incredible
(20:14):
environment. And and the culture, yeah, the
culture and, and it it it's so it's it's dictated from the top
of the call sheet down of how it.
Really is. Yeah, how, how everybody's stay
is going to go. Yeah, I know it it, it really
is. And I think it's such an
interesting thing because in in the era of self tape, I don't
get the feedback the way I used to get the feedback.
(20:35):
And so I used to be able to like, you know, somebody would
just finish one of our shows, come into the room, be
auditioning for something else, take a minute to kind of hear
how that went. Then we'd move on to the next
audition. But that piece of information
was like a gold nugget for me because then when an actor would
come in and audition, I could say, oh, by the way, just so you
know, this is normal on that show.
(20:58):
So like I had a show where the the main star, just somebody
else came in on the actor side. So when the guest cast would be
there to do their to do their side of the shot right, the main
star would not always be there and it really threw people.
Yeah. It really threw actors and so
(21:20):
when I would have that kind of feedback in the audition, I
could say, oh, by the way, XYZ might not be in all your shots.
Don't take it personally. Yeah, which is such a gift
because then you have that time in your trailer or even a day or
two before to just get in the headspace of, you know, you're
(21:40):
then searching out their stand in or whatever your eye is going
to be in, like forming a connection with them.
And I don't think we talked about that enough of just like
all of the moving elements that actors are required to be
flexible within, but yet also still do their craft as
expected. Yeah. 100 a 100%, which is, you
(22:01):
know, the audition room was sucha great kind of workshop of that
space, but now it's on self tape.
So now it's it that part of the the DNA of an actor isn't
getting influenced the same way it used to.
Yeah. How do you like to work with
actors during like a callback? Are you doing virtual or in the
(22:22):
room and and how do you like to collaborate with the actor?
Yeah. So a lot of the self tapes come
in and it's there. They're nothing like It's great.
It's like it's there. So send it on off, dude.
So there is 100% that. Then there are those times where
there's a piece of missing information.
(22:44):
And so that's an easy note. Just send off be like, oh, FYI
or oh, this choice, you know, can we play with that?
And that, you know, I'll be like, I'm here to zoom with you
if you want to zoom, but it's upto you and every actor is a
little different or, you know, I'll set up a zoom with someone
if they want to zoom and we'll work through it that way.
Definitely callbacks in the roomfor like a recurring role.
(23:08):
And you know, in that case it, it's sometimes with actors that
are coming out of school, it's kind of it's just reminding them
of a lot of things. It's something no, but that
they're self like I'm like, I'm looking at the, the, the tape.
I can say they can do the role like brilliantly on it.
Even my producing team can see it.
But then I know studio and network might not be able to.
(23:32):
And so we'll, we'll go into a studio and kind of put something
down and I'll be like, oh, you don't have to work so hard.
Remember the cameras coming to you.
Remember that like this. It's probably right over my
shoulder right now. So like, you know, and it's,
it's, it's reminding them of their work as an actor because
it's very easy to slip into the work of an auditioner, which is
(23:52):
not at the end of the day, what's going to book the job.
When you're giving redirects beyond the obvious, what are the
more nuanced things that you're looking for?
So if there's an actor I'm just getting to know and I don't know
them yet, then it's like, how dothey work?
Who are they? Like, because you know, the same
(24:13):
the same part about I don't wantto send you to an awful set.
I also don't want to send an awful person to my sets to, you
know what I mean? Like or just like what your
process is. Are you going to be ready, you
know, to go eye to eye with this, with this, with the lead
of a show who has 17 more scenesto do that day?
Are you going to be, you know, like, who are you when the
(24:35):
director doesn't make any sense to you or when they're talking
and it sounds like, it's like the peanut teacher talking, you
know, like, who are, you know, like that like, want, want,
want, want sound. That starts to happen to us when
we get deregulated. So a lot of what I'm doing with
someone I don't know yet is getting to know their nervous
system in the context of the work that they'll have to do on
(24:59):
a set. And, and a lot of times it's,
you know, I think it's really important that there's no pass
or fail in that moment. Yeah, right.
So because there are a lot of pressure in these high stake
moments. And so it's, it's really landing
in the nature of the work and, and knowing how to guide the
(25:21):
actor, whether they're, you know, whether it's this role or
it's the role that's really meant for them.
Some of the rules aren't yet meant for them, even though I
know this one feels like it's someant for somebody, but not
every rule is meant for everyone.
And so it's also that's, that's part of that stage of it.
I think the nuances of the, of the stages when I know somebody
really well, even though I'm just trying to help like get
(25:43):
them the job at that moment, like, OK, like give them
information. So that or, or a gentle like,
you know, oh, this or that, or just be the outside eye to them
and hold the space in, in that way.
Because I know them, I know their how they work.
And that kind of grows over time.
Knowing somebody and, and knowing their body of work.
(26:05):
Now it's really different because now I get to know
someone's body of work and how they work really through their
self tapes. But the self tapes serve as a
body of work for me. And but it's, it's he is so
different. I, I can't even believe that.
Like if you had told me five years ago I wouldn't be going in
a room, I would have laughed at you.
But it's impossible to do this job without being in the room.
(26:28):
It's such an integral part of the casting process.
It's. Just it's still, it's still, I'm
like going to, I kind of just think I'm going to wake up and
be like, yeah, no, OK, that was all a dream.
But now here we are, you know, and I know how difficult it is
for actors. There's one great part of it
that's very freeing. Yeah.
And then there's another that's a total nightmare.
You have to. Like, you have to.
(26:49):
I mean, you know, I write about this in my book.
I'm like, the gatekeeper is me, but it's also you.
And so now, like, it's really you, like when you're making
your tapes and how you take careof yourself in that framework.
Yeah. Well, I, I think this is going
to be a great segue because I heard you on Little Known facts,
the podcast, which was a beautiful deep dive into your
(27:12):
work and the nervous system and,and actors and them taking care
of themselves and grounding and the way that you hold space for
actors in both a physical room and a virtual room.
But I'm curious what inspired your research and what continues
to keep you curious to expand that knowledge and that aspect
(27:36):
of giving back to your fellows? So when I started teaching and
kind of journaling about what I was witnessing in the, in the
room, I, I was like, there were,there were like 5 Evergreen
principles to me, right? And I was, these principles were
like things that I saw no matterwhat side of the table you were
(27:57):
on, whether you were, whether itwas me, I had to work through
these principles, whether it wasmy writing team, an executive
and agent like, or the actor, like these were the principles.
But I was like, and they're Evergreen.
They're not like they're, they're just, but I was like,
something is missing Every time I would work with actors with
(28:17):
this, and I kind of always step back and I was like, and the
thing that they'd always say to me, I'm just so nervous.
I just have to get over my nerves.
And I was like, wow, I'm nervoustoo.
So we have this in common. I'm not nervous in my
interaction with them. I might be nervous in another
way. You know, when we talked about
my origin story, you know, therewas anxiety, there was a
learning disability, There were all these things that there were
(28:40):
not diagnosis for way back then.It was just like you just had to
like figure it all out and get on with things.
And that was really what, you know, the arts did.
But that stuff still carries with you and the experience with
an acting teacher and experiencewith a toxic boss who throws
things. You know what I mean?
Like when I say The Devil Wears Prada, it's like it's real from
(29:02):
what some of us have gone through, right?
It's like all these experiences that are still held within the
body, right? And within specifically the
autonomic nervous system, the amygdala and the filing system
we have. And it's, it's always like it's
this brilliant part of ourselves.
It's a step ahead. That question led me down a
rabbit hole that was amazing. And that kind of changed my
(29:26):
life. At the same time, I would go to
the kinesiologist who's like, how do you put it?
Like, it's like a chiropractor who is more holistic.
And I don't exactly know how to explain what a kinesiologist
says. I call him a wizard because he
basically is like, and figures out what's going on with the
system. And he would talk about the
vagus nerve. And every time I'd be like, he's
like, you're so stressed out. I'm like, I'm not stressed.
(29:46):
I mean, I'm stressed. I'm like, I'm doing all these
things, right? Like to like, recover.
So it was a combination of like the stuff's affecting these
actors, it's affecting me. There's like, I can't find any
source out there to help us. And so I began to research
(30:07):
because I was like, I need some,I need, I need a source to help
actors. I'm going to need a source to
help myself. And as I and so that that
brought me to the research, which is kind of amazing, you
know, but I was a girl that was doing the cold.
I'm the cold plunges this. I mean, I do whatever I can do
to like kind of reset and, and regulate the nervous system
(30:28):
because like once it gets wound up, it's it, it, it's not just
like you can unwind it And, and even when you do unwind it, it's
primed. So it's, it's a muscle that
we're just never taught about. Like we go to the gym we work
at, Oh, I mean not then we do workout.
I go to the gym, we go to the gym, we work out, we do all
these things, except we never really really consciously and
(30:51):
intentionally work out the nervous system in a certain way.
And we kind of what I've learnedis we go to war with it and we
assume it's broken and that it needs fixing.
And what my research like it's beautiful.
It's the nervous system is not what's broken.
The systems we operate in are broken and the nervous system is
in is responding to those. And because the systems are so
(31:14):
broken and insidious, they spin us into fixing ourselves and so
and keep us from ever seeing that they're broken.
Yes. And we're, we're carrying this
into every conversation, every relationship, every our, our.
View. Skewed by what we're and I, I
(31:36):
used to personally before I got really into unpacking what I was
carrying into my, my day-to-day.I thought, this is nonsense.
I'm healed. I went to therapy and we're
working with someone that was working through emotional blocks
in the body and, and, and stretching and I, I hit a move
(31:57):
and I just started sobbing and Iwas like, OK, I was wrong.
All right. This I need to, I need to
continue down this rabbit hole and, and path it.
It was eye opening. But also, you're exactly right.
It is a continued daily commitment to yourself to show
up and, and maintain that and, and, and build, build those
(32:17):
muscles. But it can be a little
overwhelming of knowing where tostart.
What advice would you have for doctors that are curious and
don't know where to begin their journey, where to begin their
research and and finding what fits for them?
I think an amazing book is anything by Deb Dana.
(32:41):
I love her book Anchored. Now that's polyvagal.
So it's a polyvagal theory. So it's taking Stephen Porges
work on the polyvagal theory, which is basically the a modern
version of the of of looking at the autonomic nervous system is
which is a two pillar system andand looking at his three
(33:02):
pillars, right. And so that it's not binary,
sympathetic and parasympathetic.When you move it out of this
kind of good and bad, you know, area, it allows us to sit in the
Gray a lot more and start. And that is where the
(33:24):
information lives. So as, as we allow it to inform
us and befriend it and take in the information, we then change
our entire relationship to all the systems around us because we
can see them for what they are. And it's not pretty.
(33:45):
It's really not, you know, and they're broken everywhere.
I think that when, you know, I think that the audition and
entertainment industry are greatmetaphors for just the world at
large and, and showing up with courage within it and during
high stake moments, but also just finding ways that to show
up authentically and not, you know, overwhelmed all the time.
(34:08):
I think our nervous systems right now are, are, are
incredibly overwhelmed. We are in fight or flight mode
more than most of us know it or we're in kind of like the dorsal
shutdown of it. And it's a constant like what do
we need to be in the third pillar, which is the ventral,
you know, which is what Dana, Dana and Steve Orr just is home.
(34:30):
It's it's where we can feel safeenough.
But part of it is, is first and foremost just recognizing what's
happening to us and how it's affecting us and, and, and
appreciating the defense for a moment.
Like, so like a lot of times what we do is we blame ourselves
(34:52):
for even like procrastination and, and instead of kind of look
at it as perfection nation, likeit's this, it's this moment
where we're not really procrastinating, but we have
come up with a system to protectourselves in our overwhelm to
starting. And, and that that's there for a
very valid reason, but it probably isn't service anymore.
(35:16):
And I don't like, I'm a big believer in like therapy and,
and lots of work, but also like,I also believe that like I don't
have to unpack it necessarily tomove through it.
I sometimes can be like, I'm going to leave it here and I can
come back to it anytime I want to come back to it, but I'm
going to move, move and finish this this, this project that I
want to work on instead. You.
(35:36):
Know, but it is it is I think the dub Dana's work is she
breaks down this, you know, the polyvagal theory in a very less
scientific more in practice manner.
Is, is a great is a great starting place.
And I think the other starting places are also just like right
(36:00):
outside our door. It's like, it's like finding
those things where you go. Oh, OK.
I feel at home. Like the small moments of
connection is to see it's, it's for some of us, it's an animal.
It's that friend you call. It's, you know, it's a crystal
for some people. It's a song you sing.
So like, it's really like, what are those?
What are those actions? Like for me, it like I go in my
(36:23):
backyard and I just like stand for a minute in the grass.
I'm like, that's very grounding,you know, and I know I just
sounded so with you, but. No, I, I believe me when I moved
from an apartment to a house andwas able to have like a proper
garden and like get my hands in the dirt and Yep, I believe me.
There are days where I'm like, not more weeds to pull, but.
(36:45):
I know, Oh my God. I mean, seriously.
Or like, I'm literally like whathappened to the girl.
I we're in Jersey City, so it's a very small little backyard and
I'm literally like. This is like.
No, it's like, what happened to it?
It's just like the sun, the elements.
I'm like, yeah, but it's also like going into nature and you
realize that things don't grow overnight, you know, and it's
(37:06):
everything is destroyed in nature much faster than it grows
back. And it's also understanding
that. And so taking great care with
ourselves. That's a really good question.
And I, I'm very excited, you know, to be working on a book.
I have a great agent. And so we're like, you know, and
the book is written in many different forms of it, so to
speak. But when you go to write
something like this, because I've been writing it over the
(37:27):
course of all this time. So, you know, she's really
helping me kind of figure out its system, so to speak.
I commend you on putting yourself out of your comfort
zone. You, you light up talking about
this research and it's very clearly something that is very
connected to you. And I think, I think we all have
(37:50):
very much a purpose of why we'reput on the planet.
I think you know more than one. But this very much seems to be
something you're aligned with. And I look forward to seeing it
when it is ready, when you all are ready to.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, so we've kind of like touched on this a little bit of,
you know, energies and the environments that we work in and
things like that. And to talk about casting a
little bit more, you've been responsible for building a lot
(38:14):
of original cast and, and these series regulars in these worlds
that you're taking from a writer's room to to share with
the audience. And I'm curious, how do you
start defining and finding the actors that bring this
character's voice to life and then also finding the ensemble
(38:34):
energy that is harmonious? I mean.
Something just popped to mind for you.
I mean so many different things because it's been a journey over
time, right? And our, and our industry has
changed and each kind of show isa culture within itself.
(38:59):
And within the culture is the, you know, are the hierarchies,
which is some of the things I, I, I write about too, because I
think that it's some, it's a part of it that is actors aren't
necessarily all aware of like the process of getting cast.
And when you're putting togetherthe series regulars, that
hierarchy goes all the way because it, it, it can go
(39:23):
different corporations can go all the way to the CEO, you
know, So it's, it's, it's a delicate, delicate process in
which the vision of the team, the creative team must be
steadfast, but open at the same time.
(39:45):
And it's because you, you're going to come in like, I'm going
to come in with my point of view.
And then along with it, it's going to my point of view is now
going to meet the creator of theshow's point of view.
Hopefully those are aligned, otherwise probably not on the
job honestly. So hopefully they're aligned
(40:05):
and. And it's OK that they don't fit
like, because sometimes that's the, that's what creates that
the idea that neither of you arethinking of is the friction of
like of, of figuring out what itis together.
So OK, so with them, you're in that conversation and it's just,
you know, it's, it's already andit's artistic and you're talking
(40:27):
it out and you're going through different ideas.
You go off, you do all your work, and then comes the, the
studio and network. And then depending upon what
those relationships are like, every studio is different and
every networks different. You have to be prepared for all
that to be blown up, right? So like, and then you're
navigating that blow up and, andpicking up kind of the pieces
(40:51):
from there with always the principle of this is a show,
this is the work, this is the goal and, and doing your best
not to get sunk in the personalities in that moment.
So you're, you're, you're, you're navigating a show out
here, but you're navigating another show behind the scenes
at all time. And that's again where that
nervous system work comes into play.
So for someone like myself, I who's very sensitive to all that
(41:16):
energy, I have to constantly be really in tune with everything
that's going on in my system to to stay as present as possible
and available as possible to both everyone around me and also
to my own inner guidance throughit.
So because as a lot of casting is as much about who it's not as
(41:38):
who it is, and that's the part of it that nobody really talks
about is you have to go through who it's not to get to who it
is. You need to talk out who it's
not. So it's like you have to have a
massive list and you're like, how is it not all these people?
It's not yet to get to who it is, especially when you're doing
the series regular work. And then it's all this other
stuff has to align. And there is, there is there's
(42:02):
many moments where you're just like, oh, thank God that didn't
work out because this was the person that was meant to play
it. And that goes back.
I mean, I can go back to Six Feet Under with those stories,
but I won't tell them they're inthe vault.
But there are there are moments where like you're just like,
wow, if it had been that person,that show would not have been
what it was. And that was the person we all
wanted so much, everybody wanted.
(42:25):
But if it had been that person, it would not the elements would
not have been what they were. And that followed throughout,
right. And it's, I think the best part
about putting together the ensemble is the surprise moments
is, is the surprise. And I you know, one of the
(42:46):
things that sitting in a room was someone like Darren Starr.
He said, I learned from this so much, you know, and I'm you
know, it's many years ago when we were doing Cashmere Mafia.
But he was talking about Sex andthe City and how he, and I don't
know if this is true or not, Ultimately, he'd have to come
and answer this question, but how he put these women around a
(43:10):
table who are so different from each other.
And that's the magic of it. And.
And in that moment, it was like an aha moment.
I was like, I always need to have people that are different
from each other in this cast because that's what'll make it
interesting. Yeah, unless there's a point
where they're supposed to be similar, but like in the story,
but like as much as possible, all those different energies and
(43:31):
people that might never be friends bringing them into the
room together. And that's, that's where magic
happens. That's where the sparks, that's
where the humor, that's where the chemistry lives.
And it was kind of simple in that moment.
You're kind of like, Oh yeah, that seems pretty obvious.
Like I have like, it's not goingto be interesting to watch a
(43:53):
group of women who are all the same.
And so that that's the ensemble process.
And you know, I think recently I've had a lot of shows that
were lead based. And that's really hard.
Like when you don't even have any, you know, you don't have
your Glenn Close, you don't haveyour Edie Falco, where you're
(44:14):
just, you just start. And until you get your, your
Molly Parker, you know, then then you can put everything
together, you know, and, and those are those that that when
you're starting from real scratch, it's a great joy.
And it's incredibly like it's a ship to steer all different
ship. I think we need to talk more
(44:37):
about how just as a as a business whole, the incredible
matchmaker, the casting is because you are finding these
friction points between these characters, but also finding the
actors behind those character voices that become a cast
family. Because then it becomes a
healthy environment for everyoneto work and create in a safe
(44:59):
space and and finding those differences, but also
similarities. That is an art form.
I think that's something that would be really beneficial for
actors to hear from your perspective.
Any advice from you of what positively stands out when
someone is taping for a guest star that has has a lot to
accomplish in one episode? I I'd redirect it, I'd reframe
(45:22):
it because there's nothing to show me.
OK, it's, you know, so there's nothing to show.
And I think that that that our nervous system gets very
deregulated by our expectations of what we have to deliver in
(45:44):
this moment. OK, so I would send the actor
back to the text constantly and say constantly look at what this
character is here to do and constantly go back to what you
do as an actor. I would I would send the actor
(46:06):
out of the room that they're going to self tape it or create
a different space in the room, whatever that means to work that
scene. Then when they feel it in their
body, in their body, not in their head and have moved back
into their acting space to like hit the record button and do it
(46:29):
three times and go, you know, and trust in it because you
know, it's the art of being. It's like it, it is what you
guys do as actors, but the auditioning immediately kind of
triggers a different mindset andit's understandable.
And I think that's really important to note.
There are these moments where weget deregulated in the creative
(46:50):
process when and they're high stake moments and those are the
moments when we need to engage our process the most.
Because I will see that. So, so I think it's, I will see
from the moment you step foot onthat camera, that presence and
that presence is connected to the ability to be present with
(47:16):
with the work and not the audition.
Yeah. So it it's, it's, maybe it's a
reframe of the question ultimately, but I think I think
in the asking of the question, it's, it is very much what a lot
of actors want. Just tell me what I need to do
to get the role. And I, I think you know what
I'm, what I'm taking in when I, you know, I'm, I'm doing
(47:37):
educational programming and things like that.
It's like after they're so oftenof like, well, what do they want
to see? Like how, because there was
always this desire to please andto show what you're looking for
when we came in the room, But there was this trust of if they
see something and we're slightlyoff, there's a conversation.
(47:57):
And I think with that conversation being removed now,
the, the way that we and I, I mean, it was like profound what
you were talking about being in your body, because I think so
much more of us now in the self tape world is just in our heads
And it's the wheels are turning at such a fever pitch.
And myself included, I've falleninto this.
(48:18):
Like I was doing the tape just the other day and I, I had the
copy cold. I had all of my visuals.
I was there and then turned on the camera and it was just like,
I wanted it so much. And I was like readers, like,
I'm so sorry. I'm going to need to take 15
minutes. I just have to ground myself and
I have to come back. And I just, I wanted, you know,
while we had you here to just hear from your perspective and
(48:41):
that that was the perfect answer.
So thank you. Oh, good, good.
Because it, I, I think that's such a hard, that's it's so
hard. And I think it's so hard
because, you know, I was the boundary keeper for you all when
you came in the room, you know, like, and, and, and I could see
you, you could feel seen. These are really important key
things for our mental health. And now, like you guys are like
(49:03):
you, you're the boundary Bustersto your own selves.
You know, my friends be like your boundaries get busted every
day when I was in the room. So I was like, Oh my God, all
the time, You know, I constantlybut like, but now it's, you
know, now each of you have to like figure out how to hold the
space for yourselves, set boundaries up.
(49:23):
But that's a beautiful thing that you were able.
But that's the work. It's it, that's it.
It's recognizing. OK, I'm spinning.
How do I go back to the open road, Right.
So like when a race car gets in a spin, race driver gets in a
spin, right. You've heard this.
It's great. It's great.
Though. They are trained, they do
simulations to go for the open Rd. because the instinct is the
(49:44):
wall. So that's, that's just the
instinct, right? The instinct is the problem, the
excitement. And so it's like, how do I get
myself back on the open Rd. as fast as possible, moving towards
what I what it is and trust and trust in that.
Yeah. Yeah.
And trust that I'll be seen. It's really hard.
It's a really hard thing, you know, to trust that I'll I'll be
(50:05):
seen. Yeah, Julie, this is going to
help so many actors, myself included.
I got to be the front seat of the audience.
So thank you. I.
Appreciate you. Thank you for for having me and
for your incredible questions and and holding space for me.
So thank you. Hi everyone, thanks for
(50:26):
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone. Today on What's My Frame I'm
doing my casting director Julie Tucker.
Julie has a remarkable career spanning over 2 decades.
Recognized for outstanding contributions to the industry.
Julie is a two time Emmy winner and five time Artios Award
winner for her excellence in casting.
Notable credits include Doc, theOscar nominated short Red, White
and Blue and Sheriff Country coming to CBS this fall.
(00:25):
Today Julie shares invaluable advice for actors on how we can
hold space for ourselves when self taping, insight into her
research on the nervous system, and upcoming book.
This episode is filled with great advice and lots of laughs
thanks to Julie and I both honoring our inner 15 year old
musical theater nerd. Now let's dance it out and get
to the conversation. Hey, Julie.
(00:50):
Welcome to What's my frame? How you doing?
I'm. Good.
Thank you, Laura. How about yourself?
I am great. I'm very excited for this
conversation. I, I, I love the opportunity to
sit down and chat selfishly withpeople that I admire their work.
I admire your creative voice and, and your vision.
And so for anyone who isn't familiar with your prolific
(01:10):
career and and the the differentchapters and iterations of your
career, would you mind just starting us out with what drew
you to the arts and some of the pivotal mentors and
opportunities that help shape your creative voice?
Sure. Oh, wow.
I mean, you know, there's nature, nurture and necessity,
(01:32):
right? So for me, I feel like from the
moment I was born, this was the arts was my thing and the
curiosity and it was the world for me that engaged me and
helped me to make sense of things around me.
And then I was really fortunate because, you know, my parents
(01:56):
were incredibly artsy and artistic.
I mean, my mother especially, she loved the theater.
She's somewhat obsessed with it.I would find her like signed
playbills of like Julie Andrews of all the shows, you know, like
it was amazing. And so, like, before I was even
going to Broadway, there were like these amazing playbills
that she had from when she wouldgo and see shows and wait at the
stage door and have actors sign her playbills.
(02:18):
I know it's amazing. And, you know, and my father
loved the arts also he, I think especially classical music.
So I was always growing up with various sounds around me in
terms of music, movement, dance.My mom was also it.
Yeah, I guess because it was, I mean, a choreographer.
She still is by her nature, a choreographer.
(02:41):
She just does a choreographed dance right now, I would say.
And so my father was very into the classical music.
My mother, you know, modern dance was her thing.
She had like a dance studio, which is kind of amazing because
like I grew up in Tallahassee, FL for the most part, right?
So like it was, I think the way I made sense the world and very
(03:05):
much, you know, when you think about the necessity of it, the
arts is how I found my way to fit in and found my way to feel
comfortable in uncomfortable situations constantly.
Or at least actually, I think I'd revise that.
I would say it's how I found a way through with the discomfort,
you know, so, and, and immediately was smitten with it.
(03:28):
I mean, there's pictures of me as like a kid and I'm just like,
I'm entranced watching a performance.
I'm just like, I don't even knowhow old I am, but I'm just there
present and completely involved and pulled into everything
that's happening. So it was like basically my
nature from the get go and then very much nurtured in the
environment I, I grew up within and, you know, had a dance
(03:53):
studio. So like I had this incredible
open space all the time to like put on music and just like dance
like a maniac or sing like a maniac, whatever I felt like
doing. And I also kind of like from
that moment also really from an early age also was working
because there was a, a family business.
So I was answering phones. And so I was learning very much
(04:13):
a professional personality at a very young age.
And since I was acting also at avery young age, it was kind of
like, you know, you learn how to.
And the most amazing thing aboutacting is that, like, whether
you go into professionally or not, those skill sets will carry
you through almost anything, right?
So, yeah, so those skills as a kid taught me very fast how to
(04:38):
interact, how to have like a phone voice because, you know,
we used phones way back then, how to drop my register, you
know what I mean? And like all the things that I
would need later in a career, I became very comfortable with
very early on and interacting with adults and, and also other
kids. And, and I've never really told
(04:59):
it from this perspective. So it's interesting to kind of
journey through it from that part of my origin story as
opposed to like when I come out of college, because that's
usually where I always think of my origin story.
But when you ask me this time, Ikind of went back to the dance
studio in Tallassee, Florida of like really where it began.
And I think that there's a lot of us out there that are, you
(05:20):
know, we just, we're just, this is just who we are from the get
go. And that's how we make sense of
the world. That's that's what I feel like
artists do, whatever their art form is, kind of either make
sense of it or, or inform other people what they think it is.
And, and so you know what, I wasgrowing up in Tallahassee, FL,
went to a performing arts high school for a year in Alabama,
(05:43):
went away often with to this amazing camp in upstate New
York. French woods.
It's like everybody there's likestage 4 manner in French woods
when you get into the industry and it's kind of amazing.
They're like, I know I'm a French woods kid.
And, and so I also got exposed very fast to the the theater
(06:04):
and, and, and people that were doing it, kids that were doing
it at a professional level because, you know, friends that
were an Annie who were at FrenchWoods.
And of course I was obsessed with Annie.
I was that kid that like woke up, put on the album and belted
out the songs. I don't know how my parents
survived me. It's a solid album.
As someone who like taught dancefor many, many years, I also
have to just really quickly touch on like we cannot
(06:26):
underestimate the value of dancing it out in an open like
dance studio. I stated that job for a solid
year longer than I wanted to because I had keys to that
studio. 100% there's something to it, you know, like.
Dance to that, yeah. I always still have to do it.
It's a, you know, therapy for me, absolutely.
Well, I mean, we can talk about that later, but movement is
(06:46):
essential. It's basically if you don't
move, you don't, you die. I mean it's.
It's. Essential on so many different
levels right and you know, just have this big open space just
like turn on the music and just start your own shows.
I mean that's basically that wasthe kid I was and so I went off
(07:07):
to like performing arts high school for a year in Alabama.
It was a public school, which isreally amazing.
We did, you know, camp. And then my parents moved up to
New Jersey, which was amazing because then I was like a
stone's throw from like everything I've been reading
about in all my books. Yeah.
So we moved to Westfield, NJ, and so I could take the train to
(07:29):
like HV Studios. And, you know, I was reading
respect for, I mean, not respectfor acting.
I was, that's who I was. I just lived in those books.
An actor prepares Stanislavski. It's like this is what I was
reading, you know, from basically 16 on.
And then I went off to Conservatory.
Eventually I did Governor Schoolof the Arts, went off to
Conservatory for a couple years and had had very much that
(07:55):
experience. But I think we all that, that I
wouldn't say we all, well, I guess somebody you encounter it
at some point on your journey, you encounter the toxic teacher
who's kind of the guru of the school.
And so I, I had that experience freshman year and came back
sophomore year because I, I needed to figure out for myself
(08:16):
what I wanted, not just have oneauthority figure kind of say
something to me. And you know, like I know now
that there's no right way, right?
There's no one form of acting. There's no one form of being an
artist. And it is, you know, it's
something I feel really passionate about for other
people. And certainly as a casting
(08:36):
director in my own seat, to offer that constantly to both
the actors that I see on self tapes that come in, they're in
my zooms, wherever the, you know, it is, but also to the the
creative people that I work withtoo.
It's a constant part of how the framework of my values and how I
operate from because that experience was a lot at that
(09:01):
age. And I think that when we're 18
to 20, you know, I understand the idea of, of the kind of tell
it like it is approach and I getthat.
But if we're going to do that, we have to make sure the people
(09:21):
that were doing that to have thefoundational stuff first to
manage that information. And they're not really giving
that to you at that stage. It's part of I think
conservatories and training programs is a part of the
learning that's skipped. And until you have that and you
have to have that cause the business is going to be really
tough. And that's what people will say.
You know, people will say, well,as conservatories are tough
(09:43):
because that's the way the business is.
OK, yes. And you still have to give
people some foundational structures to take in that
information. And that's what they're going to
need, whether they go into this or don't you know, they, they're
going to, you know, actors, humans all need some really
(10:05):
basics about how our own systemsoperate and how we can take care
of ourselves as we interact withother systems.
But so through that, I still want to come back and kind of
like, well, what do I feel aboutmyself as an actor and how do I
(10:25):
feel about it? And this is one person telling
me something, right? And so I came back and, like,
flew through all my juries, all flying colors, no problems.
Everybody's like you, you know, like I got all the stamps of
approval, so to speak. And then I chose not to stay.
It wasn't for me anymore. It just, you know, like it.
(10:45):
That was the path to another path.
So sometimes, like our, I alwayssay, sometimes we have gateway
dreams. And so 1 dream is, is a gateway
to the actual next thing or to our Dharma or to what, what it
is, what we're, our purpose is here.
But it's not the dream. It's not the end result.
It's just part of a process. And I had started to see that
constantly very early on in my freshman year at the
(11:06):
Conservatory in terms of like, you know, I was.
There were just other interest Ihad within the theater,
including directing and writing and analyzing plays and seeing
other people in roles. Shocking.
Constantly thinking, oh, that person would be so great in this
role. I loved auditioning.
Ironically shocking. So there was like so much about
(11:32):
this where I ended up, what the seed in life I ended up with
that was foreshadowed in these days.
And so I went, I went off to Bennington, which was an
amazing, amazing experience. Off to Vermont in a small
liberal arts school in the rolling hills right outside of
Williamstown, you know, right outside of Massachusetts, like
15 minutes in Williamstown and just was the most extraordinary.
(11:55):
I mean, I walked on that campus,everyone like wore black.
I was like, I found my people, you know, so like, and it was
just like, you know, we no, no one there knew really how to
begin. You just did, you constantly
just jumped into a project and you did.
And the the teachers had an authority, but at the same time
really your own you. There was a collective kind of
(12:18):
consciousness that it was reallysure, sure, sure.
That's that's good. They feel that way.
But where am I in all this? Where do how do I carve out my
space here? And you have these gorgeous
theaters and all this, like, community to to do that kind of
work and ask those questions of yourself.
Yeah. So that that was really an
extraordinarily influential timein my life.
(12:39):
And I'm still close with so manyof those people that I knew that
and close with people that I didn't know that.
And, you know, but OK. So like you go and then you
come, but no one teaches you howto replicate that.
Yeah, it's like you open the door, you come out of school and
bam, it's like literally you stumble right out the door.
And I watch so many people go through this.
(13:00):
I mean, they're just, it's probably one of the most awkward
times of your life because you're like, yay, I'm here.
I got I got through all this andnow what?
And now suddenly the metrics of your entire life are defined
differently. So.
So I really fortunate I landed an incredible internship at the
Public Theatre. I mean, so when you're asked
(13:22):
like the influences, that's my influence.
Like that's that's how I learnedto cast.
That is how I learned to value system.
I mean, that is how I learned how to hold space And did I know
I wanted to cast in that moment?No, that's the irony of the
whole thing. I still was like, let me go
check this out. Check that casting wasn't like a
profession at that moment in time.
(13:42):
It really, you know, it's it wasn't a class on casting.
Six months to the public was like, I mean, there was no other
class you ever needed. I mean, that was that was it.
And so I went off and worked with directors Martin Charnin,
who wrote Annie, you know, with the lyricist of Annie.
(14:02):
I worked with him for years. I was so blessed.
I mean literally, like it took all of me not to sing this song
about tomorrow. I was gonna say, did you ever
like like in his mind? No, no.
OK, Right. You're a stronger woman than I.
Oh, I know, I mean takes all of me when I see Bernie Telsey and
all his team and not break out into some wicked song.
So like, you know, like the inner 15 year old still lives
strong in me, but I just. Like, it's good to see me, yeah.
(14:27):
I just say exactly, we hang in the shower and sing out a song,
You know what I mean? So like, I'm not gonna like, I'm
like, I hear you, but and I appreciate.
I mean, I'm so grateful for her.But yeah.
So I worked with Martin for likeyears on the sequel to Annie and
other and many other projects inbetween working for Martin.
(14:47):
I had I had a set of skills I had learned.
I couldn't waitress, I couldn't type, but I had learned these
administrative skills to go workwithin the industry as really a
floating assistant. So I was like my own floating
assistant out in all of New York.
So like I would go work at agent's office when an assistant
would go away, when a casting assistant would go away, I'd,
I'd plop in. So like that was my head in
(15:10):
between job and then I'd go backand work with Marty.
And then I also, I met Terrence Malick and worked with Terry off
and on too. I, you know, so those, those two
men influenced me greatly. They were in in my relationship
with them. I always felt seen and heard,
(15:32):
even when I was somewhat ridiculous.
But there were moments I was also brilliant, I will say.
But they were always gentlemen within that, you know, they were
there. They were, there was always a
level of kindness and respect. And I so those were things, more
values that I, I learned in my early years by how, you know, by
how people influenced me. Yeah.
(15:54):
Wow, you just like throw my questions out now.
I, I have like so many new ones,but I, I also, I just want to
say thank you for sharing that about that teacher and their,
their delivery, because I, I don't think that that's
something that we talked about nearly enough.
And I, I think you're exactly right.
We've all experienced that in one environment or another and
(16:19):
it can absolutely shake your confidence and, and, and change
your, your direction. But also, especially in those
formative years, we don't have the confidence or other mentors
yet perhaps to reground us. So I'm so glad you found your
people, but I appreciate you yousharing that because that's why
(16:42):
I talk about mentorship so much on the podcast is because I
think that that's so important, especially for young creatives,
to have the people that remind you of your why when you lose
that. Yeah.
I'm curious now in your career, what draws you to a project when
you've had the opportunity to play in so many sandboxes and
with so many different creatives, You've worked on some
(17:03):
of my favorite projects. What draws you to a project or
who and and what elements draw you to that amount of time that
you're going to be spending withthese these characters and these
creatives? It's a great question.
Material clearly always material, but I also think when
(17:24):
you when you said who like the people I'm going to spend time
with and also the people that I'm going to send all of you to
spend time with, right? So like, I really feel strongly
that like the about work environments, right?
(17:46):
So the work environments and, and, and not, you know, not it's
so scary with this second version of the Part 2 of Devil
Wears Prada coming like shootingright now, the Devil Wears Prada
culture, like that's done, you know what I mean?
Like for me, I grew up with thatbeing the normalized kind of
(18:08):
culture that I lived in, right? Especially when I was doing the
work in the theater and it was normalized and it's not normal.
And I'm hopeful with the movie that in this era we're in, we're
not bringing it back, but. Yeah, I'm hoping that the the
Anne Hathaway dancing down the street like those.
(18:30):
Exactly the romance, exactly theROM com, the chick flick, fine
sign of it, not the Devil Wears Prada side of it.
But yeah, it's really important the The Who those people are,
how they how they operate and sothat I know how they'll work,
(18:50):
how that environment on this setwill be for all of y'all, you
know, and I take great pride in hearing how how good an
experience was for an actor likethat, that, you know, I don't
have a say over the set, but I'mtrying my best to choose the
projects that are leaning into that.
You can't look, you can't alwaysknow.
(19:11):
You can't always know. There's so many.
I mean, there's so many, there'sso many factors that go into
making a television show, especially and and and there's
nothing harder than making Noel.There's plenty harder than
making television within the structure of entertainment it.
Is one of the hardest. It's really hard.
It's it's a grueling process. They're making little movies in
eight days. And there's never enough time or
(19:32):
money. No, no.
But I appreciate you sharing that because I don't, I don't
think I've ever heard from casting's perspective talking
about being mindful of where you're sending these actors
because you are the, the first line of the creative that we
interact with and, and share ideas on this character and, and
(19:52):
collaborate with. And then we, we go on.
You know, it's, it's often I feel like casting is, is the
start of summer camp and then wego off and, and we don't get to
get to like reconnect and talk about it.
So I'm glad you shared that. And that's, that's really
meaningful because I've, I've been really fortunate.
Most every set I've ever walked on has been from the top of the
call sheet down. It's been an incredible
(20:14):
environment. And and the culture, yeah, the
culture and, and it it it's so it's it's dictated from the top
of the call sheet down of how it.
Really is. Yeah, how, how everybody's stay
is going to go. Yeah, I know it it, it really
is. And I think it's such an
interesting thing because in in the era of self tape, I don't
get the feedback the way I used to get the feedback.
(20:35):
And so I used to be able to like, you know, somebody would
just finish one of our shows, come into the room, be
auditioning for something else, take a minute to kind of hear
how that went. Then we'd move on to the next
audition. But that piece of information
was like a gold nugget for me because then when an actor would
come in and audition, I could say, oh, by the way, just so you
know, this is normal on that show.
(20:58):
So like I had a show where the the main star, just somebody
else came in on the actor side. So when the guest cast would be
there to do their to do their side of the shot right, the main
star would not always be there and it really threw people.
Yeah. It really threw actors and so
(21:20):
when I would have that kind of feedback in the audition, I
could say, oh, by the way, XYZ might not be in all your shots.
Don't take it personally. Yeah, which is such a gift
because then you have that time in your trailer or even a day or
two before to just get in the headspace of, you know, you're
(21:40):
then searching out their stand in or whatever your eye is going
to be in, like forming a connection with them.
And I don't think we talked about that enough of just like
all of the moving elements that actors are required to be
flexible within, but yet also still do their craft as
expected. Yeah. 100 a 100%, which is, you
(22:01):
know, the audition room was sucha great kind of workshop of that
space, but now it's on self tape.
So now it's it that part of the the DNA of an actor isn't
getting influenced the same way it used to.
Yeah. How do you like to work with
actors during like a callback? Are you doing virtual or in the
(22:22):
room and and how do you like to collaborate with the actor?
Yeah. So a lot of the self tapes come
in and it's there. They're nothing like It's great.
It's like it's there. So send it on off, dude.
So there is 100% that. Then there are those times where
there's a piece of missing information.
(22:44):
And so that's an easy note. Just send off be like, oh, FYI
or oh, this choice, you know, can we play with that?
And that, you know, I'll be like, I'm here to zoom with you
if you want to zoom, but it's upto you and every actor is a
little different or, you know, I'll set up a zoom with someone
if they want to zoom and we'll work through it that way.
Definitely callbacks in the roomfor like a recurring role.
(23:08):
And you know, in that case it, it's sometimes with actors that
are coming out of school, it's kind of it's just reminding them
of a lot of things. It's something no, but that
they're self like I'm like, I'm looking at the, the, the tape.
I can say they can do the role like brilliantly on it.
Even my producing team can see it.
But then I know studio and network might not be able to.
(23:32):
And so we'll, we'll go into a studio and kind of put something
down and I'll be like, oh, you don't have to work so hard.
Remember the cameras coming to you.
Remember that like this. It's probably right over my
shoulder right now. So like, you know, and it's,
it's, it's reminding them of their work as an actor because
it's very easy to slip into the work of an auditioner, which is
(23:52):
not at the end of the day, what's going to book the job.
When you're giving redirects beyond the obvious, what are the
more nuanced things that you're looking for?
So if there's an actor I'm just getting to know and I don't know
them yet, then it's like, how dothey work?
Who are they? Like, because you know, the same
(24:13):
the same part about I don't wantto send you to an awful set.
I also don't want to send an awful person to my sets to, you
know what I mean? Like or just like what your
process is. Are you going to be ready, you
know, to go eye to eye with this, with this, with the lead
of a show who has 17 more scenesto do that day?
Are you going to be, you know, like, who are you when the
(24:35):
director doesn't make any sense to you or when they're talking
and it sounds like, it's like the peanut teacher talking, you
know, like, who are, you know, like that like, want, want,
want, want sound. That starts to happen to us when
we get deregulated. So a lot of what I'm doing with
someone I don't know yet is getting to know their nervous
system in the context of the work that they'll have to do on
(24:59):
a set. And, and a lot of times it's,
you know, I think it's really important that there's no pass
or fail in that moment. Yeah, right.
So because there are a lot of pressure in these high stake
moments. And so it's, it's really landing
in the nature of the work and, and knowing how to guide the
(25:21):
actor, whether they're, you know, whether it's this role or
it's the role that's really meant for them.
Some of the rules aren't yet meant for them, even though I
know this one feels like it's someant for somebody, but not
every rule is meant for everyone.
And so it's also that's, that's part of that stage of it.
I think the nuances of the, of the stages when I know somebody
really well, even though I'm just trying to help like get
(25:43):
them the job at that moment, like, OK, like give them
information. So that or, or a gentle like,
you know, oh, this or that, or just be the outside eye to them
and hold the space in, in that way.
Because I know them, I know their how they work.
And that kind of grows over time.
Knowing somebody and, and knowing their body of work.
(26:05):
Now it's really different because now I get to know
someone's body of work and how they work really through their
self tapes. But the self tapes serve as a
body of work for me. And but it's, it's he is so
different. I, I can't even believe that.
Like if you had told me five years ago I wouldn't be going in
a room, I would have laughed at you.
But it's impossible to do this job without being in the room.
(26:28):
It's such an integral part of the casting process.
It's. Just it's still, it's still, I'm
like going to, I kind of just think I'm going to wake up and
be like, yeah, no, OK, that was all a dream.
But now here we are, you know, and I know how difficult it is
for actors. There's one great part of it
that's very freeing. Yeah.
And then there's another that's a total nightmare.
You have to. Like, you have to.
(26:49):
I mean, you know, I write about this in my book.
I'm like, the gatekeeper is me, but it's also you.
And so now, like, it's really you, like when you're making
your tapes and how you take careof yourself in that framework.
Yeah. Well, I, I think this is going
to be a great segue because I heard you on Little Known facts,
the podcast, which was a beautiful deep dive into your
(27:12):
work and the nervous system and,and actors and them taking care
of themselves and grounding and the way that you hold space for
actors in both a physical room and a virtual room.
But I'm curious what inspired your research and what continues
to keep you curious to expand that knowledge and that aspect
(27:36):
of giving back to your fellows? So when I started teaching and
kind of journaling about what I was witnessing in the, in the
room, I, I was like, there were,there were like 5 Evergreen
principles to me, right? And I was, these principles were
like things that I saw no matterwhat side of the table you were
(27:57):
on, whether you were, whether itwas me, I had to work through
these principles, whether it wasmy writing team, an executive
and agent like, or the actor, like these were the principles.
But I was like, and they're Evergreen.
They're not like they're, they're just, but I was like,
something is missing Every time I would work with actors with
(28:17):
this, and I kind of always step back and I was like, and the
thing that they'd always say to me, I'm just so nervous.
I just have to get over my nerves.
And I was like, wow, I'm nervoustoo.
So we have this in common. I'm not nervous in my
interaction with them. I might be nervous in another
way. You know, when we talked about
my origin story, you know, therewas anxiety, there was a
learning disability, There were all these things that there were
(28:40):
not diagnosis for way back then.It was just like you just had to
like figure it all out and get on with things.
And that was really what, you know, the arts did.
But that stuff still carries with you and the experience with
an acting teacher and experiencewith a toxic boss who throws
things. You know what I mean?
Like when I say The Devil Wears Prada, it's like it's real from
(29:02):
what some of us have gone through, right?
It's like all these experiences that are still held within the
body, right? And within specifically the
autonomic nervous system, the amygdala and the filing system
we have. And it's, it's always like it's
this brilliant part of ourselves.
It's a step ahead. That question led me down a
rabbit hole that was amazing. And that kind of changed my
(29:26):
life. At the same time, I would go to
the kinesiologist who's like, how do you put it?
Like, it's like a chiropractor who is more holistic.
And I don't exactly know how to explain what a kinesiologist
says. I call him a wizard because he
basically is like, and figures out what's going on with the
system. And he would talk about the
vagus nerve. And every time I'd be like, he's
like, you're so stressed out. I'm like, I'm not stressed.
(29:46):
I mean, I'm stressed. I'm like, I'm doing all these
things, right? Like to like, recover.
So it was a combination of like the stuff's affecting these
actors, it's affecting me. There's like, I can't find any
source out there to help us. And so I began to research
(30:07):
because I was like, I need some,I need, I need a source to help
actors. I'm going to need a source to
help myself. And as I and so that that
brought me to the research, which is kind of amazing, you
know, but I was a girl that was doing the cold.
I'm the cold plunges this. I mean, I do whatever I can do
to like kind of reset and, and regulate the nervous system
(30:28):
because like once it gets wound up, it's it, it, it's not just
like you can unwind it And, and even when you do unwind it, it's
primed. So it's, it's a muscle that
we're just never taught about. Like we go to the gym we work
at, Oh, I mean not then we do workout.
I go to the gym, we go to the gym, we work out, we do all
these things, except we never really really consciously and
(30:51):
intentionally work out the nervous system in a certain way.
And we kind of what I've learnedis we go to war with it and we
assume it's broken and that it needs fixing.
And what my research like it's beautiful.
It's the nervous system is not what's broken.
The systems we operate in are broken and the nervous system is
in is responding to those. And because the systems are so
(31:14):
broken and insidious, they spin us into fixing ourselves and so
and keep us from ever seeing that they're broken.
Yes. And we're, we're carrying this
into every conversation, every relationship, every our, our.
View. Skewed by what we're and I, I
(31:36):
used to personally before I got really into unpacking what I was
carrying into my, my day-to-day.I thought, this is nonsense.
I'm healed. I went to therapy and we're
working with someone that was working through emotional blocks
in the body and, and, and stretching and I, I hit a move
(31:57):
and I just started sobbing and Iwas like, OK, I was wrong.
All right. This I need to, I need to
continue down this rabbit hole and, and path it.
It was eye opening. But also, you're exactly right.
It is a continued daily commitment to yourself to show
up and, and maintain that and, and, and build, build those
(32:17):
muscles. But it can be a little
overwhelming of knowing where tostart.
What advice would you have for doctors that are curious and
don't know where to begin their journey, where to begin their
research and and finding what fits for them?
I think an amazing book is anything by Deb Dana.
(32:41):
I love her book Anchored. Now that's polyvagal.
So it's a polyvagal theory. So it's taking Stephen Porges
work on the polyvagal theory, which is basically the a modern
version of the of of looking at the autonomic nervous system is
which is a two pillar system andand looking at his three
(33:02):
pillars, right. And so that it's not binary,
sympathetic and parasympathetic.When you move it out of this
kind of good and bad, you know, area, it allows us to sit in the
Gray a lot more and start. And that is where the
(33:24):
information lives. So as, as we allow it to inform
us and befriend it and take in the information, we then change
our entire relationship to all the systems around us because we
can see them for what they are. And it's not pretty.
(33:45):
It's really not, you know, and they're broken everywhere.
I think that when, you know, I think that the audition and
entertainment industry are greatmetaphors for just the world at
large and, and showing up with courage within it and during
high stake moments, but also just finding ways that to show
up authentically and not, you know, overwhelmed all the time.
(34:08):
I think our nervous systems right now are, are, are
incredibly overwhelmed. We are in fight or flight mode
more than most of us know it or we're in kind of like the dorsal
shutdown of it. And it's a constant like what do
we need to be in the third pillar, which is the ventral,
you know, which is what Dana, Dana and Steve Orr just is home.
(34:30):
It's it's where we can feel safeenough.
But part of it is, is first and foremost just recognizing what's
happening to us and how it's affecting us and, and, and
appreciating the defense for a moment.
Like, so like a lot of times what we do is we blame ourselves
(34:52):
for even like procrastination and, and instead of kind of look
at it as perfection nation, likeit's this, it's this moment
where we're not really procrastinating, but we have
come up with a system to protectourselves in our overwhelm to
starting. And, and that that's there for a
very valid reason, but it probably isn't service anymore.
(35:16):
And I don't like, I'm a big believer in like therapy and,
and lots of work, but also like,I also believe that like I don't
have to unpack it necessarily tomove through it.
I sometimes can be like, I'm going to leave it here and I can
come back to it anytime I want to come back to it, but I'm
going to move, move and finish this this, this project that I
want to work on instead. You.
(35:36):
Know, but it is it is I think the dub Dana's work is she
breaks down this, you know, the polyvagal theory in a very less
scientific more in practice manner.
Is, is a great is a great starting place.
And I think the other starting places are also just like right
(36:00):
outside our door. It's like, it's like finding
those things where you go. Oh, OK.
I feel at home. Like the small moments of
connection is to see it's, it's for some of us, it's an animal.
It's that friend you call. It's, you know, it's a crystal
for some people. It's a song you sing.
So like, it's really like, what are those?
What are those actions? Like for me, it like I go in my
(36:23):
backyard and I just like stand for a minute in the grass.
I'm like, that's very grounding,you know, and I know I just
sounded so with you, but. No, I, I believe me when I moved
from an apartment to a house andwas able to have like a proper
garden and like get my hands in the dirt and Yep, I believe me.
There are days where I'm like, not more weeds to pull, but.
(36:45):
I know, Oh my God. I mean, seriously.
Or like, I'm literally like whathappened to the girl.
I we're in Jersey City, so it's a very small little backyard and
I'm literally like. This is like.
No, it's like, what happened to it?
It's just like the sun, the elements.
I'm like, yeah, but it's also like going into nature and you
realize that things don't grow overnight, you know, and it's
(37:06):
everything is destroyed in nature much faster than it grows
back. And it's also understanding
that. And so taking great care with
ourselves. That's a really good question.
And I, I'm very excited, you know, to be working on a book.
I have a great agent. And so we're like, you know, and
the book is written in many different forms of it, so to
speak. But when you go to write
something like this, because I've been writing it over the
(37:27):
course of all this time. So, you know, she's really
helping me kind of figure out its system, so to speak.
I commend you on putting yourself out of your comfort
zone. You, you light up talking about
this research and it's very clearly something that is very
connected to you. And I think, I think we all have
(37:50):
very much a purpose of why we'reput on the planet.
I think you know more than one. But this very much seems to be
something you're aligned with. And I look forward to seeing it
when it is ready, when you all are ready to.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, so we've kind of like touched on this a little bit of,
you know, energies and the environments that we work in and
things like that. And to talk about casting a
little bit more, you've been responsible for building a lot
(38:14):
of original cast and, and these series regulars in these worlds
that you're taking from a writer's room to to share with
the audience. And I'm curious, how do you
start defining and finding the actors that bring this
character's voice to life and then also finding the ensemble
(38:34):
energy that is harmonious? I mean.
Something just popped to mind for you.
I mean so many different things because it's been a journey over
time, right? And our, and our industry has
changed and each kind of show isa culture within itself.
(38:59):
And within the culture is the, you know, are the hierarchies,
which is some of the things I, I, I write about too, because I
think that it's some, it's a part of it that is actors aren't
necessarily all aware of like the process of getting cast.
And when you're putting togetherthe series regulars, that
hierarchy goes all the way because it, it, it can go
(39:23):
different corporations can go all the way to the CEO, you
know, So it's, it's, it's a delicate, delicate process in
which the vision of the team, the creative team must be
steadfast, but open at the same time.
(39:45):
And it's because you, you're going to come in like, I'm going
to come in with my point of view.
And then along with it, it's going to my point of view is now
going to meet the creator of theshow's point of view.
Hopefully those are aligned, otherwise probably not on the
job honestly. So hopefully they're aligned
(40:05):
and. And it's OK that they don't fit
like, because sometimes that's the, that's what creates that
the idea that neither of you arethinking of is the friction of
like of, of figuring out what itis together.
So OK, so with them, you're in that conversation and it's just,
you know, it's, it's already andit's artistic and you're talking
(40:27):
it out and you're going through different ideas.
You go off, you do all your work, and then comes the, the
studio and network. And then depending upon what
those relationships are like, every studio is different and
every networks different. You have to be prepared for all
that to be blown up, right? So like, and then you're
navigating that blow up and, andpicking up kind of the pieces
(40:51):
from there with always the principle of this is a show,
this is the work, this is the goal and, and doing your best
not to get sunk in the personalities in that moment.
So you're, you're, you're, you're navigating a show out
here, but you're navigating another show behind the scenes
at all time. And that's again where that
nervous system work comes into play.
So for someone like myself, I who's very sensitive to all that
(41:16):
energy, I have to constantly be really in tune with everything
that's going on in my system to to stay as present as possible
and available as possible to both everyone around me and also
to my own inner guidance throughit.
So because as a lot of casting is as much about who it's not as
(41:38):
who it is, and that's the part of it that nobody really talks
about is you have to go through who it's not to get to who it
is. You need to talk out who it's
not. So it's like you have to have a
massive list and you're like, how is it not all these people?
It's not yet to get to who it is, especially when you're doing
the series regular work. And then it's all this other
stuff has to align. And there is, there is there's
(42:02):
many moments where you're just like, oh, thank God that didn't
work out because this was the person that was meant to play
it. And that goes back.
I mean, I can go back to Six Feet Under with those stories,
but I won't tell them they're inthe vault.
But there are there are moments where like you're just like,
wow, if it had been that person,that show would not have been
what it was. And that was the person we all
wanted so much, everybody wanted.
(42:25):
But if it had been that person, it would not the elements would
not have been what they were. And that followed throughout,
right. And it's, I think the best part
about putting together the ensemble is the surprise moments
is, is the surprise. And I you know, one of the
(42:46):
things that sitting in a room was someone like Darren Starr.
He said, I learned from this so much, you know, and I'm you
know, it's many years ago when we were doing Cashmere Mafia.
But he was talking about Sex andthe City and how he, and I don't
know if this is true or not, Ultimately, he'd have to come
and answer this question, but how he put these women around a
(43:10):
table who are so different from each other.
And that's the magic of it. And.
And in that moment, it was like an aha moment.
I was like, I always need to have people that are different
from each other in this cast because that's what'll make it
interesting. Yeah, unless there's a point
where they're supposed to be similar, but like in the story,
but like as much as possible, all those different energies and
(43:31):
people that might never be friends bringing them into the
room together. And that's, that's where magic
happens. That's where the sparks, that's
where the humor, that's where the chemistry lives.
And it was kind of simple in that moment.
You're kind of like, Oh yeah, that seems pretty obvious.
Like I have like, it's not goingto be interesting to watch a
(43:53):
group of women who are all the same.
And so that that's the ensemble process.
And you know, I think recently I've had a lot of shows that
were lead based. And that's really hard.
Like when you don't even have any, you know, you don't have
your Glenn Close, you don't haveyour Edie Falco, where you're
(44:14):
just, you just start. And until you get your, your
Molly Parker, you know, then then you can put everything
together, you know, and, and those are those that that when
you're starting from real scratch, it's a great joy.
And it's incredibly like it's a ship to steer all different
ship. I think we need to talk more
(44:37):
about how just as a as a business whole, the incredible
matchmaker, the casting is because you are finding these
friction points between these characters, but also finding the
actors behind those character voices that become a cast
family. Because then it becomes a
healthy environment for everyoneto work and create in a safe
(44:59):
space and and finding those differences, but also
similarities. That is an art form.
I think that's something that would be really beneficial for
actors to hear from your perspective.
Any advice from you of what positively stands out when
someone is taping for a guest star that has has a lot to
accomplish in one episode? I I'd redirect it, I'd reframe
(45:22):
it because there's nothing to show me.
OK, it's, you know, so there's nothing to show.
And I think that that that our nervous system gets very
deregulated by our expectations of what we have to deliver in
(45:44):
this moment. OK, so I would send the actor
back to the text constantly and say constantly look at what this
character is here to do and constantly go back to what you
do as an actor. I would I would send the actor
(46:06):
out of the room that they're going to self tape it or create
a different space in the room, whatever that means to work that
scene. Then when they feel it in their
body, in their body, not in their head and have moved back
into their acting space to like hit the record button and do it
(46:29):
three times and go, you know, and trust in it because you
know, it's the art of being. It's like it, it is what you
guys do as actors, but the auditioning immediately kind of
triggers a different mindset andit's understandable.
And I think that's really important to note.
There are these moments where weget deregulated in the creative
(46:50):
process when and they're high stake moments and those are the
moments when we need to engage our process the most.
Because I will see that. So, so I think it's, I will see
from the moment you step foot onthat camera, that presence and
that presence is connected to the ability to be present with
(47:16):
with the work and not the audition.
Yeah. So it it's, it's, maybe it's a
reframe of the question ultimately, but I think I think
in the asking of the question, it's, it is very much what a lot
of actors want. Just tell me what I need to do
to get the role. And I, I think you know what
I'm, what I'm taking in when I, you know, I'm, I'm doing
(47:37):
educational programming and things like that.
It's like after they're so oftenof like, well, what do they want
to see? Like how, because there was
always this desire to please andto show what you're looking for
when we came in the room, But there was this trust of if they
see something and we're slightlyoff, there's a conversation.
(47:57):
And I think with that conversation being removed now,
the, the way that we and I, I mean, it was like profound what
you were talking about being in your body, because I think so
much more of us now in the self tape world is just in our heads
And it's the wheels are turning at such a fever pitch.
And myself included, I've falleninto this.
(48:18):
Like I was doing the tape just the other day and I, I had the
copy cold. I had all of my visuals.
I was there and then turned on the camera and it was just like,
I wanted it so much. And I was like readers, like,
I'm so sorry. I'm going to need to take 15
minutes. I just have to ground myself and
I have to come back. And I just, I wanted, you know,
while we had you here to just hear from your perspective and
(48:41):
that that was the perfect answer.
So thank you. Oh, good, good.
Because it, I, I think that's such a hard, that's it's so
hard. And I think it's so hard
because, you know, I was the boundary keeper for you all when
you came in the room, you know, like, and, and, and I could see
you, you could feel seen. These are really important key
things for our mental health. And now, like you guys are like
(49:03):
you, you're the boundary Bustersto your own selves.
You know, my friends be like your boundaries get busted every
day when I was in the room. So I was like, Oh my God, all
the time, You know, I constantlybut like, but now it's, you
know, now each of you have to like figure out how to hold the
space for yourselves, set boundaries up.
(49:23):
But that's a beautiful thing that you were able.
But that's the work. It's it, that's it.
It's recognizing. OK, I'm spinning.
How do I go back to the open road, Right.
So like when a race car gets in a spin, race driver gets in a
spin, right. You've heard this.
It's great. It's great.
Though. They are trained, they do
simulations to go for the open Rd. because the instinct is the
(49:44):
wall. So that's, that's just the
instinct, right? The instinct is the problem, the
excitement. And so it's like, how do I get
myself back on the open Rd. as fast as possible, moving towards
what I what it is and trust and trust in that.
Yeah. Yeah.
And trust that I'll be seen. It's really hard.
It's a really hard thing, you know, to trust that I'll I'll be
(50:05):
seen. Yeah, Julie, this is going to
help so many actors, myself included.
I got to be the front seat of the audience.
So thank you. I.
Appreciate you. Thank you for for having me and
for your incredible questions and and holding space for me.
So thank you. Hi everyone, thanks for
(50:26):
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
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