September 22, 2025 • 40 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Director, Hanelle M. Culpepper. One of Indiewire’s television Directors To Know, the energetic and unflappable Hanelle Culpepper's credits range from superhero action adventures to thrillers to genre films to character-driven dramas.
As director of the Star Trek: Picard pilot, Hanelle became the first woman to launch a Star Trek series in its 53-year history. In 2021, she won an NAACP Image Award for her work on Picard. In 2022, she was nominated for Netflix’s True Story starring Kevin Hart and Wesley Snipes, and again in 2023 for The Last Days of Ptolemy Grey starring Samuel Jackson.
Her recent work includes the Disney+ series Star Wars: The Acolyte, Neil Gaiman’s Amazon series Anansi Boys, Dan Fogelman's Hulu series Paradise, starring Sterling K Brown, along with NCIS: Origins and Matlock.
Hanelle earned her B.A. from Lake Forest College and her M.A. from USC’s Annenberg School. After working as the assistant for Oscar-winning writer/director Callie Khouri, she completed AFI’s Directing Workshop for Women, launching her as a director to watch. Her short A Single Rose won numerous awards and screened at film festivals worldwide, including the 2004 ICG Showcase at the Cannes Film Festival.
A Single Rose plus Hanelle’s viral short film spoof Six and the City led to her first feature: the supernatural thriller Within, starring Mia Ford, Sammi Hanratty, Sam Jaeger, Lori Heuring, Brent Sexton, and featuring Aisha Hinds. The film won Outstanding Feature Film at the Big Bear Horror Film Festival and had its television premiere on Lifetime. Hanelle went on to helm multiple thrillers, including Murder on the 13th Floor starring Tessa Thompson.
Hanelle’s television career took off after NBC Universal’s Directing Initiative led to an episode of Parenthood. Her work has since spanned nearly 40 series across a range of genres. In 2019, she was selected for the inaugural class of ReFrame and earned Variety’s Inclusion Impact Honor.
Hanelle proudly serves on the TV Academy’s Director Peer Group Executive Committee, and as an alternate for the DGA’s National Board and Western Directors Council. When not on set, Hanelle shepherds up-and-coming directors as the Guest Artistic Director for AFI’s DWW+ Class of 2024-2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to What's My Frame?
Today I'm joined by director Hanley Culpepper.
Her notable credits range from superhero action adventures to
thrillers and genre films to character driven dramas.
As director of the Star Trek Picard pilot, Hanley became the
first woman to launch a Star Trek series in its 53 year
history. In 21, she won an N double ACP
(00:23):
Image award. For her work on Picard.
Today, Honey and I chat about her creative process.
Some favorite memories from set,including Paradise and Matlock.
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hey honey, welcome to What's My Frame?
How you doing? I'm very good.
Thank you for inviting me. We like to start every episode
(00:44):
kind of the same way as what is your creative back story?
What drew you to the arts? What keeps you in love with the
process in your community? I was first drawn to the arts
back when I was a kid. I don't know.
My dad is a writer, though. That's something that he started
doing later in life. But from an early age, I would
(01:08):
do little plays I'd put on with my family.
And ultimately I was really wanted to be an actress.
And I think that was mostly because that's what you see on
screen when you go to movies andTV.
And I, my family were people whowent to movies all the time,
went almost every weekend and like every holiday.
That was our thing. And so that love of the medium
(01:32):
came through that. And then the acting was my was
the way in. And in my pursuit of that
through high school, I never would get, I would audition and
audition, audition and would never get selected for play.
So I took this class my senior year of high school, Mr. Ellis's
(01:55):
directing elective class, and you'd put on a play, and I took
it strictly because you had to act in someone else's play.
So I took it to guarantee myselfan acting role.
And that's where I discovered that really my love of the
medium is through directing and finding material and figuring
(02:16):
out the best way to stage it andworking with actors and the
audience, seeing their reaction after, to see the reaction of
what you've done. So that's how it starts.
And then I guess the way it justkeeps going is it's really, it's
every time you go and you see a movie that really moves you or
(02:36):
television show that you just find like they've done some
unique interesting thing or an interesting way of telling the
story that just kind of reinvigorates you, really
inspires you. Or even when you're on set and
you have something that on the page seems so challenging, but
then you figure out how to do itand you have like a successful
(02:57):
day that keeps you going. Or sometimes there's something
on the page that just doesn't make sense to you or doesn't
click, but then that the ACT will come in and say it and all
of a sudden it it just opens up and makes sense to you.
All those little moments of discovery is what keeps me in
love with what I do. Yeah.
(03:18):
Well, I'm sure Mr. Ellis is one of your mentors, but who are
some of the others coming up in the business making this not
just a passion, but a career? Were the creatives that were
mentors or influences that shaped your creative process and
and I and voice. Yeah, I, I mean, I have to give
(03:40):
credit to Karen Horn, who ran the NBC diversity program and
selected me to be a part of thatprogram.
And through that program, Larry Trilling chose me to to shadow
on parenthood. And that was really, really one
of the key big breaks that I hadthat 'cause I mean, before that
(04:04):
actually professionally let me credit Film Makers Alliance and
Jacques Tellemock. Liam and Jacques were two guys
were running Film Makers Alliance and really were
inspiring to me to a make my first short film and came on
board and helped me make my short film.
It was a group that we all helped each other make our stuff
(04:25):
and so it was a group of people who would rather than talk about
how much we want to be film makers, we were doing it and
helping each other. And they because of having
worked with me and we haven't worked with them, they came on
board to produce my first feature and so that was a huge
break. So I give them a lot of credit
(04:46):
too. And it's interesting because
there's people, there's there are always people along the way,
you know, that help you. There is never that one person,
at least for me, there's no one person on which I can credit
everything. I can just credit everybody who
had all these various maybe forkin the roads or crucial points
(05:11):
were someone who who gave me that break that led to more, you
know, with Alex Curseman giving me that the opportunity to
direct Picard. That shifted me from being
someone who was working on network shows, which that's not
to disperse them at all, but it allowed people to then see me as
(05:32):
someone who could do streaming stuff and premium stuff as well.
And I also like to credit Rose Catherine Pinckney because she
was the one who when I felt likeI was just kind of at this
stalled point, which probably somany times you feel like you're
doing things, you're making stride, but you just can't get
(05:54):
beyond this one thing. Who was encouraging me to go to
every party I was invited to that year and make 5 like real
connections, 5 meaningful connections with folks, which is
something that's so hard, you know, to do.
But, and, and that left me meeting my manager, who I also
(06:14):
credited Jesse Marcala, because she was the one who I would say
that I know someone who is show running a show.
She's like, well, tell them you want to direct an episode.
And I was like, but they know mydirector, they would offer it to
me. She's like, no, you have to ask
for what you want. And it's not even that these
people are, they know I want to be a director, but they're not
(06:38):
going to offer it to me. It's that they're busy people as
well who aren't even thinking about that fact.
So, so that's one of the things I encourage everybody to do is
just don't be afraid. Ask for what you want, because
people may not even think about it if you don't ask.
Yeah. What was the big takeaways from
(07:01):
that first short film? There's so much responsibility,
there's so much excitement, but there's so much nerves.
What were the big takeaways and lessons in that process?
OK, yeah, so the wedding dress was my first one.
It's so funny because Matthew Jensen was my cinematographer,
and he's gone on to become a bigcinematographer, too, and his
(07:24):
daughter is in the same school as my daughter.
So we shot that movie back in 2020.
What, three years later? I should say no, Maybe 20.
How old were they? This was back in first grade.
He sends me a note and says, youmay not Remember Me, but my
daughter is in class with your daughter.
(07:45):
Like, I remember you. Oh, my gosh, how great to hear
from you. So our daughters became friends,
and it's great to reconnect withhim.
That doesn't answer your question at all.
But one of the takeaways from that first thing is that you
make relationships with people and you start to, you know,
really learn how to work with them professionally.
(08:07):
You start to find your voice. You start to learn the best
ways, the best practices you also want to take how often
people can be committed to helping you because they believe
in you or they believe in the project.
But yeah, I've made some some great friends through that
project. It also basically the big take
(08:31):
away was that I really loved doing it.
That was the first thing I directed and I enjoyed it
immensely and wanted to continuedoing it.
When you mentioned about your manager encouraging you to say
yes and go and make 5 real connections, I think that is
something that we can often misconstrued or, or, or get this
idea of just like handing out the most business cards or my
(08:53):
God, I'm dating myself trying tocontact the like, the most
people. Like I, I just have this like
core memory of being at an eventin 2019 before everything.
And there was this person when it like it was winding down,
tables were starting to get cleared and they were just going
out and just handing out cards to everyone they possibly could.
And that's not, that's not a connection.
(09:14):
So that's not going to make you come into focus.
But how did you learn that skillto not only take in from that
other person to build a like a actual foundation of a
friendship and a creative connection, but also share your
passions and open up and be vulnerable and start those,
those connections? Because I think that's something
(09:35):
that's very hard for people coming out of the last several
years and feeling really isolated.
It was two things. One was I remember Ava Duvernay
doing a speech at the DGAI, can't remember what the event
was for, but she was at the DGA and she talked about how she
(09:57):
took off the cloak of desperation.
I think it's how she called it the cloak of desperation.
And I think that just, and I really took that to heart and it
was like when you go to events and parties, if you approach
people as if we're equal, I havesomething I can probably help
(10:20):
you. You have something you can help
me. And it's not that I'm just, I'm
desperate to meet five people. I'm desperate to connect.
I think it's just then automatically starts it on a
different kind of vibe and a different foot.
And I think it's just I'm an honest listener, so I'm happy
(10:42):
to, I don't know, I hear and talk to you.
I look people in the eyes. I try to, you know, sometimes
you'll meet people and the wholetime they're constantly like,
who else is in the room that I can talk to and they're just
always looking off. And so I try to when I meet
people at a party, just to really keep that eye contact
with them and to see you. I'm like, how are you doing?
(11:06):
How are you doing today? Keep the eye contact as they
respond as opposed to hi, how are you doing today?
Oh, good. Like president, more
conversation is goes a long way.And then just to find that one
thing that opens up the conversation and then staying
engaged in it and present and listening to them.
(11:26):
And I feel like at some point I need to get out that I'm a
director and I have this script like that's just should not even
be the goal. The goal is just to to meet
someone and have a meaningful conversation and perhaps have
enough a conversation that you can then have a coffee later
when you're outside of that environment.
Then you can really connect. It's really interesting because
(11:47):
we as creatives, we love to talk, we love to share our
stories, but it's like you can see them going through the list
that they feel like that they need to get out to be sure that
they transactionally exchange this information because someone
told them like, well, this is what you need to send people
off. This needs to be the last thing
that they hear. And I think it's something that
might help someone. I don't know, Maybe it was just
(12:08):
something that I, I clocked and I was like, I want to dive into
that and explore that a little bit more.
And from listening to your past interviews, you have this
groundedness and confidence of just, you are in your space and
those that come into your space or you come into theirs.
There is a, a respect and an equal Ness to it that I really
love. And I wanted to to go a little
(12:30):
bit further and you touched on this about your manager telling
you, you know, you need to ask for what you want.
How did you gain that confidenceof how did you start asking for
what you wanted and feeling confident in that ask for
yourself? I mean, I didn't gain confidence
and then do it. You just, I just, you just have
(12:52):
to do it. That's all I do it.
I don't know if there's ever a moment when you're like, I got
this. I'm ready to go ask my, you
know, this person do this and that for me.
I think you're always just like,oh God.
But you just have to like, OK, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to say the reasons whyI deserve this or I'm ready for
this, and you're just going to have to bite the bullet and do
(13:13):
it. And then when you're talking to
that person, you have to hide all that, right?
You have to project confidence. So there's some acting to it.
But when it comes to that momentof sitting down on your computer
and, and, and doing that note tothat letter or making that call,
you just have to do it. The very first shadowing
opportunity came because I wroteFelicia Henderson Hold wrote her
(13:39):
a note about how much I really enjoyed the show she was doing
at the time and that I would find myself up to Toronto to
shadow on it. And she invited me and allowed
me to shadow it. So the first I shadowed 13
shows, but that was the first one in which I went up and
shadowed Jeff Byrd and directed Jeff Byrd.
(14:00):
And and I should also give a shout out to Glenn Kershaw
because he was somebody that this is how it can work.
So I had a meeting with the CBS diversity executive who
introduced me to ACBS executive,just the talk general and I
(14:23):
mentioned that, you know, the shows that on CBS the time that
I would really enjoy to do and Isaid I'm happy to shadow.
And so that executive arranged for me to shadow Glenn Kershaw
on Criminal Minds. Separately, I had met at an
event Jeff Milvoyne, who at A atan alumni event and he we got to
(14:49):
talking and I mentioned I wantedto shadow.
And so he invited me to a come visit him in the writers room of
Army Wives on the Raleigh lot. And also that I could, if I
could find myself there with shadow, I could go to South
Carolina and shadow and Army Wives and I ended up shadowing
Glenn Kershaw on that as well. And it was complete coincidence.
(15:10):
And so he was actually, Glenn was like really excited when I
showed up to, you know, when he found out that I was also going
to shut on Criminal Minds because we had had a good
experience on Army Wives. And then he ended up giving me
like one of my crucial episodes because I got parenthood and I
got through parenthood. I got 9 O 21-O again because of
my manager telling me to tell someone you want something.
(15:32):
And so I told Alaura Olson and, and she was willing to fight for
me to get that parenthood. And I had those too, but it took
a long time to get 3. And, and Glenn gave me #3 which
was Criminal Minds. And it was after you got three,
at least at that time, once you got 3, then you were really able
to start working. So that was kind of the the the
(15:55):
episode booking that then reallyled to having an ongoing career
as a network television director.
From having positive shadowing experiences yourself and now
being in a position to give thathand up when the stars align, do
you encourage your shadows to really be mindful of and pay
attention and take in from the opportunity, the experience, but
(16:18):
also the parts to just enjoy because to a degree you've
arrived, you have you've you've you've reached that golden ring
for a minute. And just to like, I think so
often as creative because the carrot is constantly extended
just beyond our reach. Sometimes we don't enjoy the
wins as we do achieve them. Yeah, yes, that's very true.
(16:39):
So I remember when I first started shadowing, I think you
called the director shadow or something, and I really don't
remember who it was. I don't know if it was Bethany
Rooney or if it was Millicent Shelton, but there was somebody
else who turned that around to call yourself the shadowing
(17:02):
director versus the director shadow and just turning that
phrase around. So changes your perception of
what you are there for. And also, I feel like people's
perception of you because they've seen you as a director
and the first time, yeah, you'relike, you want to be helpful.
(17:26):
Like, I came from independent films.
So you want to like, let me helpdo something because we're
always helping us. Like, no, you should sit back,
enjoy that you are here and learn.
Focus on learning. And the stuff you should do,
which I always encourage my shadows to do, is to read that
prep for that episode as if you are directing it to do all the
(17:47):
stuff I do to prep and come in having read that script.
Do your own breakdown. When we're going through and
picking locations and I'm doing my blocking, do your own
blocking, do your own shot list,etcetera, etcetera.
Like approach it like you're doing that work.
I find that if you keep yourselfengaged, that's how you continue
(18:09):
to get the most out of each opportunity and also allows you
to not feel like you are entitled or this is beneath me.
I should be doing more like giving out those kind of
ungrateful vibes because you should be hired.
And it's probably true, you should be hired, but this is a
(18:31):
way of making connections. And so let's let's focus on that
positive and let's do the work. I want to talk a little bit
about your prep process and you've gotten the opportunity
like I mentioned to visit not only different, you know,
networks, studios, platforms, but so many different genres of
(18:52):
shows, so many different number ones on the call sheet.
How do you like to prep and go into and enter this new story
world that you are helping bringto life?
Yeah, if it's a newer show, I would say this like three
seasons on three seasons or less, depending on how many
episodes per season. I try to watch every single
(19:15):
episode before I start so I can fully know these characters and
what their whole story has been.And if it's something that's
just has been on the air so longit's just impossible.
I'll ask the showrunners to tellme like what are their favorite
episodes and I'll watch those and what are the ones that they
(19:36):
felt didn't work. So I'll watch those to learn
from them. I'll also ask them what are the
key episodes I should watch for my episode and for sure that's
whatever's that season. I will watch everything from
that season and or read the scripts if it hasn't been aired.
(19:56):
If it hasn't aired yet and sometimes on the big ones I also
will try to watch like the. First episode, the mid episode
and the last episode of each season because that gives you
the big the big arcs. I love paradise, there's no
secret about that. I'm curious, when you were, how
did the show come to you and what was your first thoughts and
(20:21):
visuals and how did your imagination start going in those
early creative meetings of this new world?
I know Dan is is very known for having his his long game arcs,
but what was that process like to take in something that was a
brand new visual for you? Yeah, when I come into something
that's a brand new visual, I tend to ask what are the things
(20:44):
that I should watch or know, or what are the movies or the
television shows that are inspiring the the the showrunner
or their pilot director. I also try to watch the dailies
if they will allow me, so I can see what kind of stuff they're
doing. When I read to Paradise Kennedy,
because I was had been developing a feature with
(21:07):
Sterling K Brown, he came to me with another project based on
Picard. He's a huge fan of Picard.
And so he had had his he was developing a television show.
And that's where I first met himas they brought me in to talk to
me about this television show. And then we ended up doing this
(21:30):
feature that I still absolutely love and I hope hope to God one
day is made because it's a fun one.
But anyway, and so that sadly the way so many features go and
then his industry, but meanwhilehe told the paradise creators
about me. And so I read, they sent me I
(21:53):
think the pilot script, just thepilot script.
And I read that script and I waslike, Oh my God, I am in.
I was just totally sucked in. Very much did not expect the
ending of the pilot and it's DanFogelman.
I love his stuff and it was a chance to actually work with
Sterling as a director as supposed to have been
(22:15):
developing. So I was totally in when I got
my scripts. What I really loved about them
was as a director. What excites me is the chance to
do because I love genre and I love, I love grounded sci-fi and
I love action. I love twist, I love mysteries
(22:37):
and I love hard hitting dramas that can make you that just grab
you at the heart and make you cry.
And so I read my scripts and I loved that I had one that was
such an emotionally, you know, actor driven one and one that
was this action-packed, you know, suspense.
(22:59):
And so, you know, 1 was the thatthat just to always have this
kind of movement, emotion and handheld, you know, and the
other one was like just letting the camera let the actors do
their thing and just felt slower.
And as far as camera movement, not a slow script because it was
(23:20):
a gripping, still a gripping script.
And when you have excellent actors taking well written
dialogue, it's like you can justlike I think of Joe Mcvaney and
his monologues and what an incredible job he did.
And that first scene with James and Gerald as the father and a
(23:40):
son in that space. Like when you asked early, like
what keeps you excited about what you're doing?
That was one where we found thatspace that I loved.
And then they came in and that the acting in that.
And it just was it just, yeah, Istill get excited about it.
Part of it is making it a safe space for the actors to do what
(24:04):
they do, but not but to not be afraid to come in with the the
tweaks and the direction, the things that change or even just
things to try. Sometimes I would tell Julianne
like, let's just try, Let's justtry this.
And she loved getting that. She loved getting something to a
(24:25):
direction that allowed her to try something different.
And even like with Kathy Bates, you're like, Oh my God, Kathy
Bates. And she was so lovely.
And she like told me early on, direct me.
I love getting direction. Don't be afraid to come in and
give me direction. And so sometimes it's, it's just
(24:45):
encouraging and saying how you love what they're doing.
And then so it's just that little what if as if this
happened or reminder that this happened because especially with
Paradise and you have like all those multiple timelines and
you're shooting out of order andthere's so much to keep straight
reminding them what came after or reminding them what's coming
(25:07):
up. So is helps.
Yeah. Well, I want to just continue on
that journey of, you know, actorprocess because you also
directed one of my favorite shows.
Sorry for your loss. And just the, the depth and the
vulnerability of the pain that that is discussed and explored
(25:29):
in that show. How do you hold space for your
actors and how do you perhaps adjust rehearsals or or takes
when you are diving into such heavy and and charged material?
One thing that I do is, well, first of all, it kind of starts
(25:49):
in prep as far as when you're doing your schedule with the
first AD to make sure that you're scheduling it in a way
that supports the actors, right?So if you have a scene that is
going to take so much out of them that you give it enough
time in the day and you don't put it in a day where there's
(26:10):
like so many other things. Or sometimes it's just
scheduling it after something versus before something so they
can at least walk into it havinghad done like a crucial scene
before. It's also like playing beginning
of the day, not the end of the day, you know, that sort of
stuff. To give them the time.
(26:30):
And then also choosing which scenes really need like
rehearsal, rehearsal and having your production team figure out.
Give me an hour or two hours or something.
An hour and a half, half an hourat least where we can talk and
it's not that normal. 20 minutes, you know at this before
(26:52):
you know when everyone's in and they're shooting or they're
waiting for you to have us. You finish a rehearsal and the
clock is there. Like you realize I need like an
hour to work this out. So let's figure out a time in
prep that we can do this or can we please do a 30 minute pre
call so that I can have a full hour with them or you know,
whatever it is that you need. That's a really a key way to
(27:16):
support them when they're going to come with something so
emotional. Having letting the actors have
that time together, even where you can just like this is our
time or we need to explore the blocking need to figure this
out. Like there was a scene that's
this doesn't give anything away.But for season 2, that when I
went to block it myself and I had my shadow with me and my
(27:39):
assistant with me and we were, there were just so many ways you
could go. That was like, I have to
rehearse this scene and I'm like, and the actors are going
to need this. There's just too much going on.
They're going to need the time. And then sure enough, like I
think the next day the actors emailed me.
Because I also, I try to always e-mail my actors, no matter how
(28:01):
small their role is to say hi. And if they have any questions
to feel free to reach out to me.And it was so funny because like
the next day they, they emailed me together.
Like we really, we went to go into the scene.
We really feel like we need to rehearse.
And I'm like, I got you because I was like, I, it's already in
the works because I was blockingit and I could tell we need
(28:23):
time. So, and we did, we used every
bit of that hour. So that's that's that's how I
try to make that space and give them that time and support that
they need. Yeah, well, from the actor's
point of view, it's such a gift,regardless of where you fall on
the call sheet, to feel like you've come into focus and
formed a connection, especially in the the virtual era of not
(28:45):
having met in the room beforehand and getting to at
least have a a quick exchange. Or just that you're you're
human, you're 3 dimensional for the other person before landing
on set. Because often times the first
time you're meeting it's, it's not in here, it's actually on
set and there's all these peoplearound.
(29:05):
Yeah. And sometimes I haven't been
able to do that, do that with mycast.
And I always feel like, horrible.
It's like, you know, that maybe the casting process meant that
they were finally cast while I was in the middle of shooting.
And so it's just been so busy and there's so much to do, and I
haven't. And I try to like make the note
mean something and not just be like, hi, it's me.
(29:28):
And I probably should just take that pressure off because I find
it's just so much better when I have connected with them ahead
of time versus when we meet on this.
And it's fine to meet on the set.
I mean, it's how it works often,right?
But it just feels just so much better to have that even a
little bit of connection. So I should take the pressure
(29:48):
off myself where they e-mail to be like so great and this do it,
you know? I I'm in that club too.
I have a literal list of emails that I want to get right.
So they are waiting until after this podcast for me to have my
full focus and creativity to, torespond properly.
Yeah, right. Times you just like, you go to
respond to that one and then there's 10 more.
(30:11):
When will I ever dig myself out of this hole?
You directed the first 3 episodes of Picard, is that
correct? Yes.
What was that process like? Was it a pilot and then you came
back for episode 2 and three, orwas it three in a row?
So it was, I was hired to do thepilot plus Episode 2, OK.
(30:33):
And through the process of theirwriting process, 'cause it was
constantly, it was changing a lot, even, you know, once we
finally started shooting the pilot, as they were breaking the
rest of the season, things were adjusted.
So when I got one and two, and as they were breaking the rest
of the season, they realized there was more information that
(30:55):
needed to be set up earlier. And so they expanded it to be 3
episodes and had me come in and shoot more footage.
So that's how that happened. You touched on this about you
love grounded performances. How do you communicate that like
some of your actors, I'm sure it's just like they know it,
They know what they're coming into.
But some of your day players perhaps once they're there in
(31:19):
costume in the sets, how do you how do you remind them to stay
grounded and in their creative process that got them there?
Well, part of it starts in the casting.
So you know, I'm attracted to the more grounded auditions and
that's 90% of the work. Because then you're coming in
with someone who already has that as their instinct.
(31:41):
And then if they if if they comein a little bit too big or
fantastical also, that's probably 90%.
But part of it also, I think it's just when you're around the
other cast, right? And you see how they're doing
it. I think it was naturally, I
(32:01):
mean, I don't know, I guess I, Ihaven't been in that situation
as an actor, but I would think that if everyone around you is
more grounded and if you're really listening and responding,
then you will naturally listen and respond in a more grounded
way. And the, you know, day Player
Co, star space, it can happen where all of a sudden it does.
(32:21):
It gets fantastical because everything's real now.
It's very immersive. And it's really usually it's a
matter of just giving them direction, a little direction
and trying to still, you know, always do it in the way that you
know, speaks to them as a character and not result
oriented. But sometimes it really is just
or or it could be, you know what, let's try this one.
(32:42):
If you do this one quieter or sometimes it's just just make it
smaller or can you hold it more of what you're feeling inside?
Or can you know to sometimes it's with the day players too.
They, you know, is there one line or something?
And I feel like it has to be Shakespeare and it does it and
(33:03):
it's like just throw it away. The more you throw it away, the
better it is. How would you actually say this
line? Just you, just just less.
Yeah, that is it sometimes. Like just just talk to them like
you're talking to me right now. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's fair. It is.
It's very exciting being on set.It's very, you know, it's, it's
(33:26):
it's magic. It's such a blessing what we get
to do. And sometimes the excitement
overrides the you know, the common sense or all of the hard
work and preparation more. The nerve, sometimes they're
just very nervous to be around these great.
And so just assuring them, you got this, you're fine, this is
good, You know, it's psychological.
(33:47):
Yeah, so much of it is just having that person just like
you're talking about, like having emailed, you know,
briefly with your director and just having someone that you can
lock eyes with and just take a deep breath and, you know,
remember where you are and that you got here for a reason.
You worked on a lot of action heavy shows, but also superhero
like The Flash when you're watching auditions.
(34:09):
Now I know of course it was different in the room.
You were able to, you know, givedirection and and communicate
and connect with the actor. But now in the self tape space,
what stands out to you positively of how these actors
are navigating the sides and digesting the the copy and
what's being asked of them in these storylines and their self
(34:29):
tapes? Yeah, I really miss being in the
room. I, I, I truly do.
Because often, especially with some of the schedules, you have
to go by what they present, right.
And so if they're, if their choice was wrong, you go with
(34:49):
the ones whose choice was more aligned what you are imagining
because you just don't have the time right, especially depending
on the size of the role. And So what I really appreciate
is when an actor does multiple takes, but they do a different
version in each take. I hate when I get 2 takes, 3
takes of the exact same thing. It's like, why show me a
(35:12):
different choice? Because that way if one is
wrong, at least I can see you can do it the other way.
That's what I love. A lot of time is spent on props.
And you know, sometimes it's having music.
If there's music playing, it's like, no, don't have music.
I'm just trying to like you can really keep it simple.
I appreciate when they dressed alittle bit like the role and
(35:34):
that actually is fine and they don't go too crazy with the
props. That's fine.
But spend your energy on giving me different versions of it
because of the self tape. And I can't direct you, but
spend the time to make sure the lighting is right, that I can
actually see your face, that you're a nice size in the camera
(35:56):
so I can really see what's happening in here and that
you're not so far back. Do show me, do the full body
shot for me at the end during the slate or whatever, but make
sure the actual audition is close enough so I can see that
perhaps there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in
here and that's what I care about.
But if you're, you know, too farback, I won't notice it.
So those that would be what I would share with the audience.
(36:20):
I have to talk about Matlock. I love that show and I rewatched
it over the summer and the amount of times that I was just
like the ACT and I was just the eyes and just so, so good.
What was it like collaborating with Miss Kathy Bates?
He. Loves acting, but like what?
What was it like? It was it was amazing.
(36:42):
And she and Sky the electric Kathy Bates and that Matlock
episode episode is 1 situation. It's one of the examples where I
had blocked like 15 pages in a room, right?
I'm like, Oh my God, you want tokeep it visually interesting.
You know that most of the time they're doing the work, but
(37:02):
still, you don't want to have the exact same camera angles.
So then I went and rewatched, you know, like really great,
like Leslie Linkerklatter's Homeland episode that won an
Emmy that was mostly two people in the room and trying to go
what a ways to support the story, but make it visually to
mix it up and thinking about when they're separated, but when
(37:24):
they come together and staging blocking, blah, blah, blah.
So anyway, I have thought of this one scene and or how to
block this one scene. And Kathy was like, I was
thinking, what if I'm on the couch?
And I was like, I hadn't even thought of that.
And I'm like, let's try it. And it was like so perfect and
(37:45):
awesome, which is and is what you saw when she's on the couch.
And it was funny and it was likegazillion times better than what
I've done. And I just feel like that's the
situation where I think she trusted me and she had, you
know, it was just like for her to feel, I would hope with any
director, she would feel like she could speak up and say that.
(38:06):
And but some directors like, no,I have, I want it this way, you
know, and I never come in like that.
I may think about it this way, but I'm open to that way.
And that was it was it made the scene so much that I love that
she had that idea. And it's like all this
overthinking about how to, you know, change things over 15
(38:30):
pages and she just comes with this.
I was thinking, I'll just be on the couch this time.
It's like perfect. Like you do you, Kathy, the way
that she and Sky complement but challenge one another is to see
two incredibly strong women and then know behind the scenes
there is a strong woman director.
It's just it's such there. There's so much wrong with the
(38:53):
industry in the world, but thereare sometimes where you just you
got to focus on the positive andjust be very thankful to be
working in the industry and in this in this day and time.
I could talk to you for hours, but we close every episode the
same way. What is one thing you wish you
could go back and tell your younger self?
Oh, my younger self in the aspiring director phase, or even
(39:16):
before I knew I wanted to be a director.
Which everyone feels like the right answer for today.
I always let let the guests leadbecause it could be different in
two hours, it could be differenttomorrow.
But it's, you know, I think there's been this divine like
appointment of like what people need to hear is what comes what
comes to guest's mind. I think I wish that I had told
(39:41):
my younger self to not be afraidto go for exactly what you want
and to not. Yeah, don't be afraid to go for
exactly what you want and don't feel.
I hate phrasing things as don't,but it really is.
And don't feel like you have to have a safety net when you are
(40:04):
young. You have time.
To go for it and fell and start again.
So do it. So go for it now.
Go for it now. After my emails, that's what I'm
going to do that, that's what that's that is my that is my
action for today. Emily, thank you so much for
joining us on the podcast. It is truly, it has been such a
(40:24):
joy and such a a gift to me. And I know that the audience is
going to love it too. So thank you for making the
time. You're welcome.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
(40:45):
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone, welcome to What's My Frame?
Today I'm joined by director Hanley Culpepper.
Her notable credits range from superhero action adventures to
thrillers and genre films to character driven dramas.
As director of the Star Trek Picard pilot, Hanley became the
first woman to launch a Star Trek series in its 53 year
history. In 21, she won an N double ACP
(00:23):
Image award. For her work on Picard.
Today, Honey and I chat about her creative process.
Some favorite memories from set,including Paradise and Matlock.
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hey honey, welcome to What's My Frame?
How you doing? I'm very good.
Thank you for inviting me. We like to start every episode
(00:44):
kind of the same way as what is your creative back story?
What drew you to the arts? What keeps you in love with the
process in your community? I was first drawn to the arts
back when I was a kid. I don't know.
My dad is a writer, though. That's something that he started
doing later in life. But from an early age, I would
(01:08):
do little plays I'd put on with my family.
And ultimately I was really wanted to be an actress.
And I think that was mostly because that's what you see on
screen when you go to movies andTV.
And I, my family were people whowent to movies all the time,
went almost every weekend and like every holiday.
That was our thing. And so that love of the medium
(01:32):
came through that. And then the acting was my was
the way in. And in my pursuit of that
through high school, I never would get, I would audition and
audition, audition and would never get selected for play.
So I took this class my senior year of high school, Mr. Ellis's
(01:55):
directing elective class, and you'd put on a play, and I took
it strictly because you had to act in someone else's play.
So I took it to guarantee myselfan acting role.
And that's where I discovered that really my love of the
medium is through directing and finding material and figuring
(02:16):
out the best way to stage it andworking with actors and the
audience, seeing their reaction after, to see the reaction of
what you've done. So that's how it starts.
And then I guess the way it justkeeps going is it's really, it's
every time you go and you see a movie that really moves you or
(02:36):
television show that you just find like they've done some
unique interesting thing or an interesting way of telling the
story that just kind of reinvigorates you, really
inspires you. Or even when you're on set and
you have something that on the page seems so challenging, but
then you figure out how to do itand you have like a successful
(02:57):
day that keeps you going. Or sometimes there's something
on the page that just doesn't make sense to you or doesn't
click, but then that the ACT will come in and say it and all
of a sudden it it just opens up and makes sense to you.
All those little moments of discovery is what keeps me in
love with what I do. Yeah.
(03:18):
Well, I'm sure Mr. Ellis is one of your mentors, but who are
some of the others coming up in the business making this not
just a passion, but a career? Were the creatives that were
mentors or influences that shaped your creative process and
and I and voice. Yeah, I, I mean, I have to give
(03:40):
credit to Karen Horn, who ran the NBC diversity program and
selected me to be a part of thatprogram.
And through that program, Larry Trilling chose me to to shadow
on parenthood. And that was really, really one
of the key big breaks that I hadthat 'cause I mean, before that
(04:04):
actually professionally let me credit Film Makers Alliance and
Jacques Tellemock. Liam and Jacques were two guys
were running Film Makers Alliance and really were
inspiring to me to a make my first short film and came on
board and helped me make my short film.
It was a group that we all helped each other make our stuff
(04:25):
and so it was a group of people who would rather than talk about
how much we want to be film makers, we were doing it and
helping each other. And they because of having
worked with me and we haven't worked with them, they came on
board to produce my first feature and so that was a huge
break. So I give them a lot of credit
(04:46):
too. And it's interesting because
there's people, there's there are always people along the way,
you know, that help you. There is never that one person,
at least for me, there's no one person on which I can credit
everything. I can just credit everybody who
had all these various maybe forkin the roads or crucial points
(05:11):
were someone who who gave me that break that led to more, you
know, with Alex Curseman giving me that the opportunity to
direct Picard. That shifted me from being
someone who was working on network shows, which that's not
to disperse them at all, but it allowed people to then see me as
(05:32):
someone who could do streaming stuff and premium stuff as well.
And I also like to credit Rose Catherine Pinckney because she
was the one who when I felt likeI was just kind of at this
stalled point, which probably somany times you feel like you're
doing things, you're making stride, but you just can't get
(05:54):
beyond this one thing. Who was encouraging me to go to
every party I was invited to that year and make 5 like real
connections, 5 meaningful connections with folks, which is
something that's so hard, you know, to do.
But, and, and that left me meeting my manager, who I also
(06:14):
credited Jesse Marcala, because she was the one who I would say
that I know someone who is show running a show.
She's like, well, tell them you want to direct an episode.
And I was like, but they know mydirector, they would offer it to
me. She's like, no, you have to ask
for what you want. And it's not even that these
people are, they know I want to be a director, but they're not
(06:38):
going to offer it to me. It's that they're busy people as
well who aren't even thinking about that fact.
So, so that's one of the things I encourage everybody to do is
just don't be afraid. Ask for what you want, because
people may not even think about it if you don't ask.
Yeah. What was the big takeaways from
(07:01):
that first short film? There's so much responsibility,
there's so much excitement, but there's so much nerves.
What were the big takeaways and lessons in that process?
OK, yeah, so the wedding dress was my first one.
It's so funny because Matthew Jensen was my cinematographer,
and he's gone on to become a bigcinematographer, too, and his
(07:24):
daughter is in the same school as my daughter.
So we shot that movie back in 2020.
What, three years later? I should say no, Maybe 20.
How old were they? This was back in first grade.
He sends me a note and says, youmay not Remember Me, but my
daughter is in class with your daughter.
(07:45):
Like, I remember you. Oh, my gosh, how great to hear
from you. So our daughters became friends,
and it's great to reconnect withhim.
That doesn't answer your question at all.
But one of the takeaways from that first thing is that you
make relationships with people and you start to, you know,
really learn how to work with them professionally.
(08:07):
You start to find your voice. You start to learn the best
ways, the best practices you also want to take how often
people can be committed to helping you because they believe
in you or they believe in the project.
But yeah, I've made some some great friends through that
project. It also basically the big take
(08:31):
away was that I really loved doing it.
That was the first thing I directed and I enjoyed it
immensely and wanted to continuedoing it.
When you mentioned about your manager encouraging you to say
yes and go and make 5 real connections, I think that is
something that we can often misconstrued or, or, or get this
idea of just like handing out the most business cards or my
(08:53):
God, I'm dating myself trying tocontact the like, the most
people. Like I, I just have this like
core memory of being at an eventin 2019 before everything.
And there was this person when it like it was winding down,
tables were starting to get cleared and they were just going
out and just handing out cards to everyone they possibly could.
And that's not, that's not a connection.
(09:14):
So that's not going to make you come into focus.
But how did you learn that skillto not only take in from that
other person to build a like a actual foundation of a
friendship and a creative connection, but also share your
passions and open up and be vulnerable and start those,
those connections? Because I think that's something
(09:35):
that's very hard for people coming out of the last several
years and feeling really isolated.
It was two things. One was I remember Ava Duvernay
doing a speech at the DGAI, can't remember what the event
was for, but she was at the DGA and she talked about how she
(09:57):
took off the cloak of desperation.
I think it's how she called it the cloak of desperation.
And I think that just, and I really took that to heart and it
was like when you go to events and parties, if you approach
people as if we're equal, I havesomething I can probably help
(10:20):
you. You have something you can help
me. And it's not that I'm just, I'm
desperate to meet five people. I'm desperate to connect.
I think it's just then automatically starts it on a
different kind of vibe and a different foot.
And I think it's just I'm an honest listener, so I'm happy
(10:42):
to, I don't know, I hear and talk to you.
I look people in the eyes. I try to, you know, sometimes
you'll meet people and the wholetime they're constantly like,
who else is in the room that I can talk to and they're just
always looking off. And so I try to when I meet
people at a party, just to really keep that eye contact
with them and to see you. I'm like, how are you doing?
(11:06):
How are you doing today? Keep the eye contact as they
respond as opposed to hi, how are you doing today?
Oh, good. Like president, more
conversation is goes a long way.And then just to find that one
thing that opens up the conversation and then staying
engaged in it and present and listening to them.
(11:26):
And I feel like at some point I need to get out that I'm a
director and I have this script like that's just should not even
be the goal. The goal is just to to meet
someone and have a meaningful conversation and perhaps have
enough a conversation that you can then have a coffee later
when you're outside of that environment.
Then you can really connect. It's really interesting because
(11:47):
we as creatives, we love to talk, we love to share our
stories, but it's like you can see them going through the list
that they feel like that they need to get out to be sure that
they transactionally exchange this information because someone
told them like, well, this is what you need to send people
off. This needs to be the last thing
that they hear. And I think it's something that
might help someone. I don't know, Maybe it was just
(12:08):
something that I, I clocked and I was like, I want to dive into
that and explore that a little bit more.
And from listening to your past interviews, you have this
groundedness and confidence of just, you are in your space and
those that come into your space or you come into theirs.
There is a, a respect and an equal Ness to it that I really
love. And I wanted to to go a little
(12:30):
bit further and you touched on this about your manager telling
you, you know, you need to ask for what you want.
How did you gain that confidenceof how did you start asking for
what you wanted and feeling confident in that ask for
yourself? I mean, I didn't gain confidence
and then do it. You just, I just, you just have
(12:52):
to do it. That's all I do it.
I don't know if there's ever a moment when you're like, I got
this. I'm ready to go ask my, you
know, this person do this and that for me.
I think you're always just like,oh God.
But you just have to like, OK, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to say the reasons whyI deserve this or I'm ready for
this, and you're just going to have to bite the bullet and do
(13:13):
it. And then when you're talking to
that person, you have to hide all that, right?
You have to project confidence. So there's some acting to it.
But when it comes to that momentof sitting down on your computer
and, and, and doing that note tothat letter or making that call,
you just have to do it. The very first shadowing
opportunity came because I wroteFelicia Henderson Hold wrote her
(13:39):
a note about how much I really enjoyed the show she was doing
at the time and that I would find myself up to Toronto to
shadow on it. And she invited me and allowed
me to shadow it. So the first I shadowed 13
shows, but that was the first one in which I went up and
shadowed Jeff Byrd and directed Jeff Byrd.
(14:00):
And and I should also give a shout out to Glenn Kershaw
because he was somebody that this is how it can work.
So I had a meeting with the CBS diversity executive who
introduced me to ACBS executive,just the talk general and I
(14:23):
mentioned that, you know, the shows that on CBS the time that
I would really enjoy to do and Isaid I'm happy to shadow.
And so that executive arranged for me to shadow Glenn Kershaw
on Criminal Minds. Separately, I had met at an
event Jeff Milvoyne, who at A atan alumni event and he we got to
(14:49):
talking and I mentioned I wantedto shadow.
And so he invited me to a come visit him in the writers room of
Army Wives on the Raleigh lot. And also that I could, if I
could find myself there with shadow, I could go to South
Carolina and shadow and Army Wives and I ended up shadowing
Glenn Kershaw on that as well. And it was complete coincidence.
(15:10):
And so he was actually, Glenn was like really excited when I
showed up to, you know, when he found out that I was also going
to shut on Criminal Minds because we had had a good
experience on Army Wives. And then he ended up giving me
like one of my crucial episodes because I got parenthood and I
got through parenthood. I got 9 O 21-O again because of
my manager telling me to tell someone you want something.
(15:32):
And so I told Alaura Olson and, and she was willing to fight for
me to get that parenthood. And I had those too, but it took
a long time to get 3. And, and Glenn gave me #3 which
was Criminal Minds. And it was after you got three,
at least at that time, once you got 3, then you were really able
to start working. So that was kind of the the the
(15:55):
episode booking that then reallyled to having an ongoing career
as a network television director.
From having positive shadowing experiences yourself and now
being in a position to give thathand up when the stars align, do
you encourage your shadows to really be mindful of and pay
attention and take in from the opportunity, the experience, but
(16:18):
also the parts to just enjoy because to a degree you've
arrived, you have you've you've you've reached that golden ring
for a minute. And just to like, I think so
often as creative because the carrot is constantly extended
just beyond our reach. Sometimes we don't enjoy the
wins as we do achieve them. Yeah, yes, that's very true.
(16:39):
So I remember when I first started shadowing, I think you
called the director shadow or something, and I really don't
remember who it was. I don't know if it was Bethany
Rooney or if it was Millicent Shelton, but there was somebody
else who turned that around to call yourself the shadowing
(17:02):
director versus the director shadow and just turning that
phrase around. So changes your perception of
what you are there for. And also, I feel like people's
perception of you because they've seen you as a director
and the first time, yeah, you'relike, you want to be helpful.
(17:26):
Like, I came from independent films.
So you want to like, let me helpdo something because we're
always helping us. Like, no, you should sit back,
enjoy that you are here and learn.
Focus on learning. And the stuff you should do,
which I always encourage my shadows to do, is to read that
prep for that episode as if you are directing it to do all the
(17:47):
stuff I do to prep and come in having read that script.
Do your own breakdown. When we're going through and
picking locations and I'm doing my blocking, do your own
blocking, do your own shot list,etcetera, etcetera.
Like approach it like you're doing that work.
I find that if you keep yourselfengaged, that's how you continue
(18:09):
to get the most out of each opportunity and also allows you
to not feel like you are entitled or this is beneath me.
I should be doing more like giving out those kind of
ungrateful vibes because you should be hired.
And it's probably true, you should be hired, but this is a
(18:31):
way of making connections. And so let's let's focus on that
positive and let's do the work. I want to talk a little bit
about your prep process and you've gotten the opportunity
like I mentioned to visit not only different, you know,
networks, studios, platforms, but so many different genres of
(18:52):
shows, so many different number ones on the call sheet.
How do you like to prep and go into and enter this new story
world that you are helping bringto life?
Yeah, if it's a newer show, I would say this like three
seasons on three seasons or less, depending on how many
episodes per season. I try to watch every single
(19:15):
episode before I start so I can fully know these characters and
what their whole story has been.And if it's something that's
just has been on the air so longit's just impossible.
I'll ask the showrunners to tellme like what are their favorite
episodes and I'll watch those and what are the ones that they
(19:36):
felt didn't work. So I'll watch those to learn
from them. I'll also ask them what are the
key episodes I should watch for my episode and for sure that's
whatever's that season. I will watch everything from
that season and or read the scripts if it hasn't been aired.
(19:56):
If it hasn't aired yet and sometimes on the big ones I also
will try to watch like the. First episode, the mid episode
and the last episode of each season because that gives you
the big the big arcs. I love paradise, there's no
secret about that. I'm curious, when you were, how
did the show come to you and what was your first thoughts and
(20:21):
visuals and how did your imagination start going in those
early creative meetings of this new world?
I know Dan is is very known for having his his long game arcs,
but what was that process like to take in something that was a
brand new visual for you? Yeah, when I come into something
that's a brand new visual, I tend to ask what are the things
(20:44):
that I should watch or know, or what are the movies or the
television shows that are inspiring the the the showrunner
or their pilot director. I also try to watch the dailies
if they will allow me, so I can see what kind of stuff they're
doing. When I read to Paradise Kennedy,
because I was had been developing a feature with
(21:07):
Sterling K Brown, he came to me with another project based on
Picard. He's a huge fan of Picard.
And so he had had his he was developing a television show.
And that's where I first met himas they brought me in to talk to
me about this television show. And then we ended up doing this
(21:30):
feature that I still absolutely love and I hope hope to God one
day is made because it's a fun one.
But anyway, and so that sadly the way so many features go and
then his industry, but meanwhilehe told the paradise creators
about me. And so I read, they sent me I
(21:53):
think the pilot script, just thepilot script.
And I read that script and I waslike, Oh my God, I am in.
I was just totally sucked in. Very much did not expect the
ending of the pilot and it's DanFogelman.
I love his stuff and it was a chance to actually work with
Sterling as a director as supposed to have been
(22:15):
developing. So I was totally in when I got
my scripts. What I really loved about them
was as a director. What excites me is the chance to
do because I love genre and I love, I love grounded sci-fi and
I love action. I love twist, I love mysteries
(22:37):
and I love hard hitting dramas that can make you that just grab
you at the heart and make you cry.
And so I read my scripts and I loved that I had one that was
such an emotionally, you know, actor driven one and one that
was this action-packed, you know, suspense.
(22:59):
And so, you know, 1 was the thatthat just to always have this
kind of movement, emotion and handheld, you know, and the
other one was like just letting the camera let the actors do
their thing and just felt slower.
And as far as camera movement, not a slow script because it was
(23:20):
a gripping, still a gripping script.
And when you have excellent actors taking well written
dialogue, it's like you can justlike I think of Joe Mcvaney and
his monologues and what an incredible job he did.
And that first scene with James and Gerald as the father and a
(23:40):
son in that space. Like when you asked early, like
what keeps you excited about what you're doing?
That was one where we found thatspace that I loved.
And then they came in and that the acting in that.
And it just was it just, yeah, Istill get excited about it.
Part of it is making it a safe space for the actors to do what
(24:04):
they do, but not but to not be afraid to come in with the the
tweaks and the direction, the things that change or even just
things to try. Sometimes I would tell Julianne
like, let's just try, Let's justtry this.
And she loved getting that. She loved getting something to a
(24:25):
direction that allowed her to try something different.
And even like with Kathy Bates, you're like, Oh my God, Kathy
Bates. And she was so lovely.
And she like told me early on, direct me.
I love getting direction. Don't be afraid to come in and
give me direction. And so sometimes it's, it's just
(24:45):
encouraging and saying how you love what they're doing.
And then so it's just that little what if as if this
happened or reminder that this happened because especially with
Paradise and you have like all those multiple timelines and
you're shooting out of order andthere's so much to keep straight
reminding them what came after or reminding them what's coming
(25:07):
up. So is helps.
Yeah. Well, I want to just continue on
that journey of, you know, actorprocess because you also
directed one of my favorite shows.
Sorry for your loss. And just the, the depth and the
vulnerability of the pain that that is discussed and explored
(25:29):
in that show. How do you hold space for your
actors and how do you perhaps adjust rehearsals or or takes
when you are diving into such heavy and and charged material?
One thing that I do is, well, first of all, it kind of starts
(25:49):
in prep as far as when you're doing your schedule with the
first AD to make sure that you're scheduling it in a way
that supports the actors, right?So if you have a scene that is
going to take so much out of them that you give it enough
time in the day and you don't put it in a day where there's
(26:10):
like so many other things. Or sometimes it's just
scheduling it after something versus before something so they
can at least walk into it havinghad done like a crucial scene
before. It's also like playing beginning
of the day, not the end of the day, you know, that sort of
stuff. To give them the time.
(26:30):
And then also choosing which scenes really need like
rehearsal, rehearsal and having your production team figure out.
Give me an hour or two hours or something.
An hour and a half, half an hourat least where we can talk and
it's not that normal. 20 minutes, you know at this before
(26:52):
you know when everyone's in and they're shooting or they're
waiting for you to have us. You finish a rehearsal and the
clock is there. Like you realize I need like an
hour to work this out. So let's figure out a time in
prep that we can do this or can we please do a 30 minute pre
call so that I can have a full hour with them or you know,
whatever it is that you need. That's a really a key way to
(27:16):
support them when they're going to come with something so
emotional. Having letting the actors have
that time together, even where you can just like this is our
time or we need to explore the blocking need to figure this
out. Like there was a scene that's
this doesn't give anything away.But for season 2, that when I
went to block it myself and I had my shadow with me and my
(27:39):
assistant with me and we were, there were just so many ways you
could go. That was like, I have to
rehearse this scene and I'm like, and the actors are going
to need this. There's just too much going on.
They're going to need the time. And then sure enough, like I
think the next day the actors emailed me.
Because I also, I try to always e-mail my actors, no matter how
(28:01):
small their role is to say hi. And if they have any questions
to feel free to reach out to me.And it was so funny because like
the next day they, they emailed me together.
Like we really, we went to go into the scene.
We really feel like we need to rehearse.
And I'm like, I got you because I was like, I, it's already in
the works because I was blockingit and I could tell we need
(28:23):
time. So, and we did, we used every
bit of that hour. So that's that's that's how I
try to make that space and give them that time and support that
they need. Yeah, well, from the actor's
point of view, it's such a gift,regardless of where you fall on
the call sheet, to feel like you've come into focus and
formed a connection, especially in the the virtual era of not
(28:45):
having met in the room beforehand and getting to at
least have a a quick exchange. Or just that you're you're
human, you're 3 dimensional for the other person before landing
on set. Because often times the first
time you're meeting it's, it's not in here, it's actually on
set and there's all these peoplearound.
(29:05):
Yeah. And sometimes I haven't been
able to do that, do that with mycast.
And I always feel like, horrible.
It's like, you know, that maybe the casting process meant that
they were finally cast while I was in the middle of shooting.
And so it's just been so busy and there's so much to do, and I
haven't. And I try to like make the note
mean something and not just be like, hi, it's me.
(29:28):
And I probably should just take that pressure off because I find
it's just so much better when I have connected with them ahead
of time versus when we meet on this.
And it's fine to meet on the set.
I mean, it's how it works often,right?
But it just feels just so much better to have that even a
little bit of connection. So I should take the pressure
(29:48):
off myself where they e-mail to be like so great and this do it,
you know? I I'm in that club too.
I have a literal list of emails that I want to get right.
So they are waiting until after this podcast for me to have my
full focus and creativity to, torespond properly.
Yeah, right. Times you just like, you go to
respond to that one and then there's 10 more.
(30:11):
When will I ever dig myself out of this hole?
You directed the first 3 episodes of Picard, is that
correct? Yes.
What was that process like? Was it a pilot and then you came
back for episode 2 and three, orwas it three in a row?
So it was, I was hired to do thepilot plus Episode 2, OK.
(30:33):
And through the process of theirwriting process, 'cause it was
constantly, it was changing a lot, even, you know, once we
finally started shooting the pilot, as they were breaking the
rest of the season, things were adjusted.
So when I got one and two, and as they were breaking the rest
of the season, they realized there was more information that
(30:55):
needed to be set up earlier. And so they expanded it to be 3
episodes and had me come in and shoot more footage.
So that's how that happened. You touched on this about you
love grounded performances. How do you communicate that like
some of your actors, I'm sure it's just like they know it,
They know what they're coming into.
But some of your day players perhaps once they're there in
(31:19):
costume in the sets, how do you how do you remind them to stay
grounded and in their creative process that got them there?
Well, part of it starts in the casting.
So you know, I'm attracted to the more grounded auditions and
that's 90% of the work. Because then you're coming in
with someone who already has that as their instinct.
(31:41):
And then if they if if they comein a little bit too big or
fantastical also, that's probably 90%.
But part of it also, I think it's just when you're around the
other cast, right? And you see how they're doing
it. I think it was naturally, I
(32:01):
mean, I don't know, I guess I, Ihaven't been in that situation
as an actor, but I would think that if everyone around you is
more grounded and if you're really listening and responding,
then you will naturally listen and respond in a more grounded
way. And the, you know, day Player
Co, star space, it can happen where all of a sudden it does.
(32:21):
It gets fantastical because everything's real now.
It's very immersive. And it's really usually it's a
matter of just giving them direction, a little direction
and trying to still, you know, always do it in the way that you
know, speaks to them as a character and not result
oriented. But sometimes it really is just
or or it could be, you know what, let's try this one.
(32:42):
If you do this one quieter or sometimes it's just just make it
smaller or can you hold it more of what you're feeling inside?
Or can you know to sometimes it's with the day players too.
They, you know, is there one line or something?
And I feel like it has to be Shakespeare and it does it and
(33:03):
it's like just throw it away. The more you throw it away, the
better it is. How would you actually say this
line? Just you, just just less.
Yeah, that is it sometimes. Like just just talk to them like
you're talking to me right now. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's fair. It is.
It's very exciting being on set.It's very, you know, it's, it's
(33:26):
it's magic. It's such a blessing what we get
to do. And sometimes the excitement
overrides the you know, the common sense or all of the hard
work and preparation more. The nerve, sometimes they're
just very nervous to be around these great.
And so just assuring them, you got this, you're fine, this is
good, You know, it's psychological.
(33:47):
Yeah, so much of it is just having that person just like
you're talking about, like having emailed, you know,
briefly with your director and just having someone that you can
lock eyes with and just take a deep breath and, you know,
remember where you are and that you got here for a reason.
You worked on a lot of action heavy shows, but also superhero
like The Flash when you're watching auditions.
(34:09):
Now I know of course it was different in the room.
You were able to, you know, givedirection and and communicate
and connect with the actor. But now in the self tape space,
what stands out to you positively of how these actors
are navigating the sides and digesting the the copy and
what's being asked of them in these storylines and their self
(34:29):
tapes? Yeah, I really miss being in the
room. I, I, I truly do.
Because often, especially with some of the schedules, you have
to go by what they present, right.
And so if they're, if their choice was wrong, you go with
(34:49):
the ones whose choice was more aligned what you are imagining
because you just don't have the time right, especially depending
on the size of the role. And So what I really appreciate
is when an actor does multiple takes, but they do a different
version in each take. I hate when I get 2 takes, 3
takes of the exact same thing. It's like, why show me a
(35:12):
different choice? Because that way if one is
wrong, at least I can see you can do it the other way.
That's what I love. A lot of time is spent on props.
And you know, sometimes it's having music.
If there's music playing, it's like, no, don't have music.
I'm just trying to like you can really keep it simple.
I appreciate when they dressed alittle bit like the role and
(35:34):
that actually is fine and they don't go too crazy with the
props. That's fine.
But spend your energy on giving me different versions of it
because of the self tape. And I can't direct you, but
spend the time to make sure the lighting is right, that I can
actually see your face, that you're a nice size in the camera
(35:56):
so I can really see what's happening in here and that
you're not so far back. Do show me, do the full body
shot for me at the end during the slate or whatever, but make
sure the actual audition is close enough so I can see that
perhaps there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in
here and that's what I care about.
But if you're, you know, too farback, I won't notice it.
So those that would be what I would share with the audience.
(36:20):
I have to talk about Matlock. I love that show and I rewatched
it over the summer and the amount of times that I was just
like the ACT and I was just the eyes and just so, so good.
What was it like collaborating with Miss Kathy Bates?
He. Loves acting, but like what?
What was it like? It was it was amazing.
(36:42):
And she and Sky the electric Kathy Bates and that Matlock
episode episode is 1 situation. It's one of the examples where I
had blocked like 15 pages in a room, right?
I'm like, Oh my God, you want tokeep it visually interesting.
You know that most of the time they're doing the work, but
(37:02):
still, you don't want to have the exact same camera angles.
So then I went and rewatched, you know, like really great,
like Leslie Linkerklatter's Homeland episode that won an
Emmy that was mostly two people in the room and trying to go
what a ways to support the story, but make it visually to
mix it up and thinking about when they're separated, but when
(37:24):
they come together and staging blocking, blah, blah, blah.
So anyway, I have thought of this one scene and or how to
block this one scene. And Kathy was like, I was
thinking, what if I'm on the couch?
And I was like, I hadn't even thought of that.
And I'm like, let's try it. And it was like so perfect and
(37:45):
awesome, which is and is what you saw when she's on the couch.
And it was funny and it was likegazillion times better than what
I've done. And I just feel like that's the
situation where I think she trusted me and she had, you
know, it was just like for her to feel, I would hope with any
director, she would feel like she could speak up and say that.
(38:06):
And but some directors like, no,I have, I want it this way, you
know, and I never come in like that.
I may think about it this way, but I'm open to that way.
And that was it was it made the scene so much that I love that
she had that idea. And it's like all this
overthinking about how to, you know, change things over 15
(38:30):
pages and she just comes with this.
I was thinking, I'll just be on the couch this time.
It's like perfect. Like you do you, Kathy, the way
that she and Sky complement but challenge one another is to see
two incredibly strong women and then know behind the scenes
there is a strong woman director.
It's just it's such there. There's so much wrong with the
(38:53):
industry in the world, but thereare sometimes where you just you
got to focus on the positive andjust be very thankful to be
working in the industry and in this in this day and time.
I could talk to you for hours, but we close every episode the
same way. What is one thing you wish you
could go back and tell your younger self?
Oh, my younger self in the aspiring director phase, or even
(39:16):
before I knew I wanted to be a director.
Which everyone feels like the right answer for today.
I always let let the guests leadbecause it could be different in
two hours, it could be differenttomorrow.
But it's, you know, I think there's been this divine like
appointment of like what people need to hear is what comes what
comes to guest's mind. I think I wish that I had told
(39:41):
my younger self to not be afraidto go for exactly what you want
and to not. Yeah, don't be afraid to go for
exactly what you want and don't feel.
I hate phrasing things as don't,but it really is.
And don't feel like you have to have a safety net when you are
(40:04):
young. You have time.
To go for it and fell and start again.
So do it. So go for it now.
Go for it now. After my emails, that's what I'm
going to do that, that's what that's that is my that is my
action for today. Emily, thank you so much for
joining us on the podcast. It is truly, it has been such a
(40:24):
joy and such a a gift to me. And I know that the audience is
going to love it too. So thank you for making the
time. You're welcome.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
(40:45):
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
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