December 1, 2025 • 48 mins
Today on Whats My Frame I'm joined by award-winning filmmaker, Winter Dunn. Winter is dedicated to amplifying universal narratives through the lens of BIPOC voices. Her short film, Dear Mama, premiered at SXSW and won the NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Short Film (Live Action). Dear Mama is currently streaming on The New Yorker's Screening Room and Short of the Week. Her most recent film, PLAY HARD, had its World Premiere at the 2024 Tribeca Film Festival, was selected as a Vimeo Staff Pick, and streams on Hulu.
Winter has been a directing fellow in several prestigious programs, including NBCU Launch, Film Independent's Project Involve, Ryan Murphy's HALF Initiative, and the Sony Pictures Diverse Directors Program. Beyond film and television, Winter has directed a wide range of digital content, including web series and editorial videos. Her digital direction for Vanity Fair, Vogue, Architectural Digest, Anonymous Content, Meta, and other platforms has featured stars like Viola Davis, Sarah Paulson & Billie Eilish.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hi everyone, today what's my frame?
I'm Joe by award-winning filmmaker Winter Dunn.
Winter is dedicated to amplifying universal narratives
through the lens of by pop voices.
Her short film Dear Mama premiered at South by Southwest
and won the N double ACP Image Award for outstanding Short
Film. Today, Winter shares her
creativity and heart with us as she takes us through her
(00:24):
creative process, how she buildstrust with actors on set, and
the inspiration and pictures that inspire her.
This episode is filled with so much encouragement and heart,
and one of my new favorite quotes, Leading with Curiosity.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:44):
Hey Winter, welcome to What's MyFrame?
How you doing? I'm so good, I'm so good.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for making the time to
share your creativity and your beautiful smile with me.
The audience can't see it, but we're going to chat and and dive
into process. We like to start every
conversation kind of the same way with your creative origin
story. What made you fall in love with
(01:06):
the arts and choose this as yourcareer?
Yeah, totally. Well, you know, I'm, I'm from
the Midwest, I'm from Indiana, right outside of Chicago, and
I'm from Gary, IN more specifically, which it's a city
with a lot of history and a sortof lot of preconceived notions.
But what a lot of people don't know is that is it, it is an
(01:26):
incredibly creative place and a lot of creative souls have come
through that part of the country.
And so growing up, I was really shy and I was really quiet.
I'm a neuro divergent, which I know what that is now.
But back then in the 90s, right?Like I don't, no one knows what
that was, especially in women and young girls, right?
It was just like, she's very well behaved and very much to
(01:48):
herself. And so my mom, she was like a
writer. She had theater troupes all
around the region. She, you know, did stuff for the
church. And so I was always around
creativity. I started dancing in the church
and from there went to art schools for dance.
And so that's when it started to, like, hit for me that I was
able to express myself more fully when I was connected to
(02:11):
creativity. And it was almost like even the
people around me were like, whoa, that girl's got a lot
inside of her because I was so kind of quiet into myself.
So that was like a big turning point where I was like, OK, I
think creativity and the arts are going to be a part of my
life. I don't know if it'll be dance
forever, even though I love thismedium, but I think it'll be in
(02:31):
this world. And so from dance, I, you know,
I stopped dancing maybe like sophomore year high school and
was very fortunate to take a random acting class in Chicago.
And my teacher was like, you gotsomething interesting, something
special. I'd like you to audition for my
Academy in Chicago. So I auditioned for the Chicago
Academy for the Arts and got in two weeks before junior year
(02:53):
started, which was insane, right?
So now I'm commuting from Indiana to Chicago for high
school and got a scholarship that allowed me to be there.
And it was in that those years as an actor that I took my first
directing course and directed myfirst one act.
And I'll never forget Chris Arnold, my directing teacher.
(03:14):
He set in on my rehearsal, whichhe was doing the other three
people directing. And then he just left
afterwards. And I was like, oh, my God.
Everyone else said he talked a lot, and he was very involved.
And I was so in my head, and I was like, Chris, like, what?
I mean, are you not like, what'sup?
And he was like, I didn't want to interrupt your process.
I thought there was something really special happening in that
room, and it didn't need me butting into it.
(03:36):
And I was like, oh, and then theshow ended up being incredibly
well received from people who I really respect and who have been
in this, in the arts their wholelives and are now committed to
it in this Academy setting. And I was like, oh, huh, that's
interesting. And graduated, went to Fordham
in New York City for acting, butstill had that like that in the
(03:57):
back of my head, like, what was that?
And it wasn't until I graduated,living in New York, it was being
poor in New York is not the sameas being a student in New York
where you feel like you're living.
You know, I'm on 60th and 9th Central Park West frolicking.
And then I graduated and it was like, oh, I can't do that as an
adult. That's paying her bills and not
(04:17):
on like, scholarship for school.And I was like, I got to figure
something out. And the one thing I kept coming
back to is I kept saying, I havepictures in my head.
I have these like moments in my head that aren't on stage.
And I want to figure out how to get those out into the world.
And literally with that, and I visited a friend in LA and she
had a home that felt livable in like a living room.
(04:38):
It was small, but it was like anactual home.
And I was living in a box the size of this room.
And I was like, I think I'm going to go to LA and I'm going
to see what these pictures in myhead are.
And literally that was the startof everything I've been doing to
this point, just trusting and going, hey, you know what, let's
see what that is and see how that feels.
And I'm glad I did it because I think I was all those different
(05:01):
types of creatives because I wassupposed to be able to work with
different types of creatives andfind middle ground with people.
And I'm really excited for the journey.
I think it's so interesting how sometimes we have gateway dreams
then like open up another another lane of creativity for
us. And I was curious how where you
have had different elements of your career, how does 1 inform
(05:24):
one another and support it? I think for me quite a bit.
I think I'm a very like intuitive creative.
I think there are a lot of film people who are like, they
consider themselves like, I am more of a technician than I am a
creative soul, which I respect. Everyone's sort of entry point.
That's not me at all, right? Like I didn't really get into
(05:46):
film to be like, I want to figure out how I can do this
cool machinery thing or how do we feel like that just wasn't
the why I I just really wanted to express myself and find like
minded people and make beautifulwork together.
And so, you know, I think the way that I direct honestly feels
very much connected to my years as a dancer and being like, OK,
(06:08):
how does body move through space?
What feels authentic to where the body would want to go versus
like if you stand there, the shot is that, you know, it's
like let the camera sort of be inspired by bodies in space.
And I think my film sort of you feel that in it.
So yeah, I think being an actor,I, I like to think I'm an
(06:30):
actor's director and my film work specifically is all about
performance. My films are very quiet.
They're not dialogue heavy, they're not action heavy.
So you need to be able to trust that the performances are going
to tell these stories. And so I don't know if I could
make films the way that I do if I didn't have years of
(06:50):
experience as an actor and knowing what it feels like to be
on that side of the process and,and really respecting that side
of the process. So yeah, they're all
intertwined. And I think I I direct because I
had those experiences. You mentioned about these
pictures that you had in your head.
How do they start appearing for you?
I think they kind of always werethere.
(07:11):
I always had a sense of what I found beautiful.
And I think not to go back, but I think that started in dance
because I was in environments that were very grounded and and
emotionally rich. Like I didn't, you know, my
dance background wasn't calm. So it wasn't like it was very
like, you know, we would even inthe choreography, people would
(07:34):
be like, whoa, like those young people are evoking something
very much older than them, I would say.
And I think that's where that started.
Or like learning that something really small and tender could be
far more impactful than a big explosion.
And so that's where that's I mean, I really think it started
in those little rooms as a little black girl dancing with
(07:57):
other girls, trying to learn to express ourselves.
And same with like in the black box theater, I would see work
with two people in a chair and Iwould leave so moved.
And I think that's where those things started to come together.
Like the pictures in my head weren't these big elaborate
pictures. They were like a hand touching a
song, You know, it was like verylike micro moments, which is
(08:20):
very much what I sort of love tounpack.
So it's, I don't know if I have like that one image that started
it all, but I think that was always kind of in there.
It was more of like, what do youfind beautiful?
Your journey from a student to an adult in New York and then
finding your home in LA, how didyou start finding your community
where you went to school in New York and that kind of kind of
(08:44):
has a built in network communityfor you versus you had a friend
here. But like how did you start
finding your collaborators and finding like your part of LA?
Because I think that's so important to then transition it
to being your home. That's a really good question
and I think is even it's, it's important wherever you live, but
specifically in LA because it isa very isolating place and
(09:06):
people can just be physically sofar away from each other.
I don't know. I think because I was living in
New York, I sort of came to LA with a New York sense of like
hustle. I still have it.
But to be honest, I'm, I'm agingand I feel like I'm like, I want
to slow down. But when I first got here, I was
like, where we at, what we doing, you know, like that was
just like how life moved to me. And I remember like.
(09:28):
So while I was still at Fordham,I studied abroad 1 semester.
I started finding these web series rooted in the black
experience, rooted in South LA in a way I had never seen S LA.
And I was like, this is good work.
The performances are great, the writing is rich.
So when I got to Lai just started talking to people about
those shows and a lot of people had no idea what I was talking
(09:50):
about. But then one day someone did
know what I was talking about and I was like, oh wow, I love,
you know, this work. And she's like, oh, me too.
And we kind of lost track. And I remember maybe a year
later, I emailed a company that was producing this content.
What series? Like narrative, you know, mini
series. And I got an e-mail back
inviting me to an event they were holding at their production
(10:11):
office for like Valentine's Day or something.
And I was like, woah, how cool, I'll get to meet the people who
make this work. And when I got there, the girl I
had met a year prior had been working for them now and she was
who emailed me back. So it was like this weird, like,
and I remember a friend said, when you get to LA, open your
mouth, open your mouth, talk about what you like.
Like a lot of people aren't going to care, but someone
(10:33):
might. And that was my story.
And so I'm grateful that those sort of like small production
communities, I met my friends, Imet people who I like to work
with. I was like, I'm smart, I'm
hungry, I want to learn how thisworks.
And they were like, well, we're a small team, get in here.
You're smart, you're a hard worker.
Like we'll put you to work. So that's really how that
(10:54):
started. And then from there I started
doing, you know, film fellowships in LA specifically
with film independent. They were a big, big turning
point for me when I got into my first fellowship with them.
Like the DPI work with to this day, I found through them my
producers, I found with them. Like I'll be, you know, if I
(11:14):
need something or if I'm asking questions about e-mail, someone
from artist development, like, hey, do you guys happen to know
anyone that does this or So for me, it was like opening my
mouth, finding communities, making stuff I like.
And then on the flip side, taking advantage of the
organizations that do exist in acity like LA and, and showing up
hungry and ready to work and ready to learn and really
(11:38):
wanting to know folks and, and find people that I've clicked
with. And I think that sort of that
was the hunger that really opened up the doors and the
communities I'm like, still working with now, just crazy.
You've had the opportunity to work your craft in a number of
really prestigious programs and fellowships.
How did you find the right opportunities and mentors for
(11:58):
you? And how did those programs
specifically that you partnered with support your craft and your
voice and your unique contributions to the business?
Like half that question is mentorship and then the other
half is how did the programs help facilitate that?
I think for me, the programs were a big part of that.
(12:19):
You know, like, I think maybe because I studied in Chicago at
a young age, right, and then went to New York City and became
sort of who I was as a person, as an adult in New York and then
came to Lai think I just understood, like, no one owes
you anything and like no one really cares about you yet,
(12:42):
right? Like, and not from a judgement
place. It's just like they don't know
you. So why are they going to go out
of their way to to like help you, You know what I mean?
Like you have to show them like,hey, I'm someone you want to
know, right? Like I'm someone you want to
teach because I'm actually listening and I'm going to apply
it or I'm going to bring what I do know and be honest about what
(13:03):
I don't know, you know? And I think that posture has
helped me in the programs because you can tell that people
are like, oh, OK, cool. She's not just here for the
stamp to say that she did the thing.
She's really here because she wants to be better at this.
And I'm like, I do. And I am very honest about the
fact that there's so much I don't know.
(13:24):
I come from the theater. I come from being on stage.
Like I wasn't making little films at 5 and like, you know,
like working with all these different cameras, or my dad
wasn't ADP or my mom wasn't a producer.
Like I didn't grow up in this, which is fine.
And I think maybe it's exciting to see more people who are
finding it through just a purelycreative lens.
(13:47):
But that also means there's a lot of learning to do.
So if I'm here and you have information that I need, I'm
going to ask you what that information is.
And that I think up to this point, that's really served me
well in the fellowship space. Were there certain elements that
you were looking for at different chapters of your
(14:08):
creative process? Totally, totally.
I think before I would go in, I would always ask like, what is
it that you feel like you need or you're missing?
So you know, it could be a specific collaborator, it could
be a skill set, it could be, youknow, anything.
I just like to be is try to be. It's harder, it's harder than it
(14:31):
seems, but I try to be clear about what it is.
The thing I feel like that's stopping me from being at the
next level of what I want to do.So if it's like, hey, I have
ideas, but I'm a neurodivergent and I have a really hard time
sort of like breaking this like idea that feels very intuitive
into like a clear plot driven like narrative.
(14:54):
So it's like, hey, who's the story consultant?
Let me talk to them about what I'm thinking about and have, you
know, like their whole job is knowing story and knowing
structure. And I know how to bring all the
in between, all the subtext, allthe rich visual, all that
performance I got. Help me make sure this is a
story that will land and won't just look cool or look pretty or
(15:16):
whatever, you know? So yeah, just being clear about
what it is you're actually trying to take away.
And I think that helps people help you because now they know,
like, oh, OK, cool. Let's figure out how to fill
that gap for you. If you are comfortable talking
about it, I'm curious if there was a a crossroads or someone
(15:38):
that kind of validated for you talking about being a
neurodivergent creative. I think my neurodivergency adds
so much to my creativity. I'm OK with acknowledging
moments where I need to like take a beat, you know, because
it's like they work hand in hand.
And then in terms of people, I don't know if I can think of a
specific person in regard to like neurodivergency, but I've
(16:02):
had I'm I'm blessed to have, especially in TV, have been met
and shadowed really incredible directors who like affirm me and
the way that I do it and want todo it.
I think the person who comes to mind first his he's a filmmaker
from being a stuntman of Ben Hernandez Bray, who was a sick,
I mean, so incredibly talented TV director and like cool as
(16:27):
hell, like, you know, has just like lived life like some real
life. And it's like he gets that sense
of not only being in film from the day he was born, but like
finding film through other means, being a stunt person.
And so he also gets a sense of bodies and space and
choreography and things like that.
So we really click or, you know,it's like a that hustle and me
(16:50):
being like, dude, like I don't know how people blocked like
that. That is so heady.
And I would get so he's like, girl, same.
But this how I do it. Like I'll walk and then you see
someone be so cool, but then yousee them work and they're so
good and you're like, OK, dope. I can be that good and still be
(17:10):
me and still like be myself in this.
So he's someone that I, I just, I love Ben and he's I'm really
grateful to have him like as a mentor.
He's awesome, what have you. Learned from the mentors and the
people that you respect and haveworked with.
What have you learned to adapt as your like non negotiables
(17:31):
going into a project that's a. Really good question.
Well, I've learned to like not be afraid to speak up for what I
need. I mean, there's so many layers
to that question. There's the side of it that's
like before you're in the project itself, right?
Like we're negotiating whatever.I think I've learned to open my
(17:51):
mouth more, right? I, I, I don't think I come
across as a quiet person, but I can be.
And so before I would just be like, OK, like whatever they
know best. Like, OK, you know, just more so
taking and, and, and, and receiving.
And now I've learned like even when it comes to my reps like
ask the question like, hey guys,would it make sense for us to
like ask for this or what do youthink about XYZ When before I
(18:16):
would be like, well, you guys got it.
So just like let me know. And I'm really fortunate that I
have reps that are just really beautiful people.
So it's always a conversation orif I'm asking a question,
they're down to answer it. So that I've learned just like
not being afraid to open your mouth, which maybe seems
obvious, but sometimes isn't in this business.
(18:37):
And then I think when I'm in thework, learning that like, like,
like I used to be like, especially in TVI would have an
impulse and then be like, no, no, no, no, no.
And then I start having my own inner dialogue about the impulse
about anything, right? Especially these bigger sort of
projects where there's like so many elements.
And then as I'm shadowing these directors, they'll say the
(19:00):
impulse I had, but they'll just say it and then be like, this
is, you know, and then somebody else adds to that.
And it's like, well, let's get atest.
Like let's just see it and then we'll figure out from there.
And I'm like, right, when you'relike, you're having good
instincts, but you're, you're sort of pushing your own
instincts down as opposed to voicing the instinct and then
seeing what comes of it and knowing that it's specifically
(19:22):
in ATV space or maybe even a studio feature space.
There are people who give you a test and like options of that
thing. So you don't have to sit in your
own brain and be like, well, maybe it won't work because it
might look like that. And if it looks like that, what
does that mean? Just say it and then look at
different options and then choose from there, right?
It's a visual medium. And so that's something I've
(19:42):
learned coming from being like indie into walking into these
bigger budget like rooms. It's like, oh, right, I can
voice what I'm thinking. And there are people here to
help me make that a tangible thing, so that that's something
I'm still learning and sort of still getting used to.
Yeah. How do you?
Like to build trust and create asafe environment for your
(20:06):
actors, especially when you are asking them to go to these
vulnerable spaces. I like to.
Ask some questions and and sort of treat them like a real
collaborator in the process. Because every actor is
different, right? Like some actors want to know
the why, right? Like why did, why are we writing
this? Like, why is the story like, who
is this guy like for you, like, you know, is this connected to?
(20:29):
And so for some actors, that's food, right?
They're like consuming that and they know how to funnel through
that to use what serves them andto be able to sort of like let
go. It doesn't.
While some actors are the opposite.
It's like if you give me all this stuff that's all in my head
and my impulses and my physical body is stifled.
(20:50):
And so as opposed to assuming, I'm asking how do you like to
work right? Like, you know, what's the vibe?
Do you, do you, do you want to know more about the story and
the why behind the story and sort of some of the things I'm
puzzling with about this and no answers even, right?
Like this is interesting to me because of this.
(21:10):
Then I'm sort of questioning whyXYZ and some actors I found are
like, oh, I love that. That's an interesting question.
Now I'm going to chew on that question for myself and allow
whatever comes up to come up. So that's sort of how I balance
that, asking more questions thangiving answers and letting them
(21:33):
tell me what they need. And, and I think to specifically
in film, I think my process is maybe a bit different in the TV
space, but really in film, letting them know I am arriving
here with curiosity as well. There is no right final way.
There is maybe a way I could imagine it, but there is no one
(21:57):
way because you weren't here yet.
And so we're going to have to find this together.
And I'll give you sort of guardrails, right?
Because I'm aware of camera and sound and the edit and all these
other things. So you don't feel like you're
off in space just kind of floating.
But you also feel like this person needs me in the room to
(22:17):
make the thing. And it's like, yeah, I do.
That's why you're here. And casting is so important to
me because I, I can't, I don't know if I could work with actors
who aren't curious and excited to sort of explore, you know, if
you're like, just tell me where to be.
I'm like, OK, I can. But sure.
You know, then it kind of takes away some of the, the magic that
(22:38):
we might have found together. I'm curious.
What is your rehearsal strategy?What are the the techniques or
like the touchstones for you of how you like to come into a
space and bring in your actors and and work through things?
Yeah, I'm going to speak from a film place again because I know
you've done a ton of television,so you do know there is a sense
(22:59):
of, you know, the way ATV rehearsal works.
But even in that, I still like to keep the same posture.
I just might. The speed of things or whatever
might move a little bit differently, but I like to sort
of, I like to clear the set. I don't like having people
staring at you while you're trying to find your bearings.
(23:20):
Yeah. If there, if it is a dialogue
sequence thing, we'll read the words together and sort of be
like, are there questions? And usually we've asked those
questions before we're standing on the set.
So it's usually like if there isa question, it's a piggyback
from something we were already talking about or like, hey, I
was thinking about that thing wesaid.
And I think it might be interesting if I start here
(23:43):
because the, you know, like whatever that is, if there isn't
any clear impulse of like where you need to be, then I'll, I'll
kind of walk it with you. Like this is what I'm thinking,
right? And, and, and kind of talking
through the inner stuff, right? Like, so we're here.
But he, it seems to me like he'strying to figure out that so
that might bring him in this world like, but it's always
(24:06):
almost like a question like, huh, you know, so there's that
sense of confirmation of like, yeah, I buy that and then.
OK. And then, you know, just it's
like leading with curiosity is what I like to say while still
director technical meet is like,but this will be the best frame
and then that might be the best place for this.
(24:28):
And my DP is not with us, but he's nearby because he is the
more intuitive DP. He's not like lighting you while
you're trying to. He is too interested in the
questions, which is why we work so well together.
So then we're also, it's like having our own little
conversation while I'm talking with actors and it feels, it
just kind of becomes this littleand before you know it, we're
(24:49):
like, oh, it's blocked. Oh, I didn't realize it was
blocked. Almost.
It almost feels great love. Now let's light around that and
and see that's my process, leading with curiosity, having a
plan, but really not allowing itto sort of dictate what the
thing has to be. I think I've found some success
in that because it usually becomes something far better
(25:10):
than my plan. So I'm like, let's do the best
version. Not my version, you know,
Winter. We found the quote for the
episode leaning with Curiosity. Oh I love.
Thanks. I'm gonna write that down too.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel like. Good, I'm mulling on that now.
I'd love to talk about your short Dear Mama.
What was the inspiration for thefilm and pre production life
(25:31):
like before we dive into it's festival life?
Totally. Yeah, Dear Mama was a special 1.
I actually made it with Film Independent and their project
involved Fellowship, which was the first film fellowship I ever
did. And so talking about the posture
leading into a fellowship space,that was the space.
I was asking a lot of questions and very curious and being
(25:55):
honest about what I didn't know,but feeling confident about what
I could do. And so when Dear Mama sort of
came up, it was already in development when I was attached,
but it was started. It was having a hard time sort
of like finding its legs like right?
Like we knew it was like a father.
We knew there was a daughter, there was a mom, but it really
wasn't even decide if mom would like show up on camera either in
(26:17):
flashbacks. Like it was very like a loose
structure. The Tupac of it all had already
been sort of like established inthe story, which I thought was
cool. And so when I was attached, it
kind of needed to just be sort of landed.
It just felt very up in the air.A lot of elements of it, which
was exciting but really scary for me because I was like, OK,
(26:40):
like I'm not really like a writer, but like, maybe I am
like, I don't know. They just, they affirmed my
abilities honestly more than I was willing to sort of own at
that time. And that was, it was scary
because everything I saw about the story was very quiet.
And I remember someone reading like one of my drafts and they
(27:02):
were like, I don't really know, like, like what's happening?
Like nothing's really. And they weren't saying it in a
judgement place. Like they were genuinely like,
nothing's happening. And then I'd be like, no, no,
no, no, like so much is happening.
OK, Look. And this, that pause is really
like, she's trying to do this and he's trying to do that, but
they're they can't. Then all of a sudden they're
like, oh, wow. Well, that's really OK.
(27:22):
Yeah, do that. That's beautiful.
That sounds. And I was like, OK, right.
And it was someone, Ruth Atkinson, who's a story
consultant, who I just adore andwork with her as often as I can.
She was the one that told me, like, you write like a director,
right? Like, you don't write everything
on the page because you know what the moment is.
And so you allow sort of like ina play.
(27:44):
I come from theater, right? So it'll just be a beat.
That beat doesn't just mean stoptalking for a second and then
keep talking. Like so much is happening in the
beat and it requires everyone inthe room to be present to even
pick up on all the nuances of what that one word beat means.
You know, that's what dear Mama was for me.
(28:06):
Like learning to trust my instincts.
Learning to trust silences, learning how to work with my DP
and how we like to, we call it it's a dance.
Like we don't like to lock really anything.
We like to sort of allow things to be discovered in the moment.
And yeah, I love Dear Mama. Dear Mama was like the film that
(28:28):
I was like, all right. And then to see its success,
knowing the origin and how scaryand like how uncertain it was,
it really became like, oh OK, trust yourself.
Even when it really feels like it's not going to happen.
Just trust and just keep walkingforward.
Because even if it's not the award-winning buzzy thing, like
(28:50):
we got to be OK with that too. It's going to be good word,
right? Like regardless, it'll find its
people. But I won't lie, it was really
cool to see it be like kind of an award-winning buzzy thing to
this quiet movie around grief around this young black girl.
As someone who was a quiet sort of in her room by herself Black
(29:10):
girl knowing so much is happening in that person.
You're just moving too fast to see.
It was really sort of special for me, something that really
stood. Out for me and watching your
work is, you know, as an actor, it's all about listening and
it's like how does it land? It goes back and forth and in so
many instances I saw in the actor's eye, it was like it hit,
(29:34):
but it got into deeper levels oflike processing for her.
And it was so like, I don't knowhow you got to that level of
like just that, like trust fall with your actors.
But it was so beautiful to see that stillness in our world is
so busy and moving at such a pace and sets are such a, you
(29:55):
know, cacophony of sound and energy and moving pieces.
And there's never enough time ormoney and everything into the to
land in such a a still place, which is so beautiful.
And I'm curious, obviously it did.
It did become a South by Southwest darling and it did
have this in a festival life. What was the journey for like
(30:16):
picking where to submit, how to submit?
Who were those like, you know, festival fairy godmothers, if
you will, that helped guide the way for that, Yeah.
I remember being like, I love this movie.
My team loved it. We were like, this is so
beautiful. But I've never like, like kind
of going back to before, like not assuming anyone is going to
(30:39):
want to lean into the thing thatyou're loving to do.
So I just, I didn't know, like Iwas like, I think it's
beautiful, but I have no clue who else might find it beautiful
or who or even sit in the silence or in the quiet with us.
You know, like I'm like, if we submit and it's all these big
fuzzy loud films, it might sort of get swept under the red,
like, I don't know, right. And so we just did the thing you
(31:03):
submit, especially the top of the year festivals.
To me, that was the smartest strategy.
It's like into like, I think thefilm was completed in like
October, maybe November. So it just made sense to be
like, cool, let's use the year as you know the thing.
So you sort of apply to all the things that have the early in
the year submission deadlines and then you kind of use that to
(31:25):
sort of guide, OK, that's maybe,you know, where are the type of
festivals that are open up to us.
And thankfully South by is what February, maybe top of March.
I think you get the acceptance in maybe January.
So I remember, yeah, it was because my birthday is January
14th. So I found out a few days before
my birthday and that was so coolbecause I was like, damn, like I
(31:47):
love South By. I had already been to South By
and I just have always loved thespirit and the energy.
It kind of feels like a festivalfor everybody, right?
Whether you are like a film connoisseur or are we just a
person that likes cool stuff? Like you can go to South By and
find something for you. And I've always loved that.
So that was cool for me. Like, all right, we're going to
(32:08):
South By. Dope so then, you know, I mean
just the industry that does thenopen up certain things because
people are now going to see you at South by the program is
everyone's at a festival like that.
So you know, we did our due diligence in the submissions and
stuff, but then there were also festivals that reached out to us
like hey, I saw you feeling likewe'd love to, you know, have you
(32:29):
and I'm like, OK, that's amazing.
Let us know what you need. Just, you know, being genuinely
like honored to share the word without expectations.
And we were given an honor at Aspen, Aspen Shorts Fest.
And it's a really incredible festival.
I will always recommend it to folks making shorts.
And yeah, I think we were fortunate to land a heavy hitter
(32:52):
like South by so early in the year that it then allowed us to
be like, OK, cool. It kind of gave us, I would say
it gave us confidence early in that year to be like, OK, then
push it out. Let's just see what happens
next, you know? So yeah, it was it was a cool
run for sure. What were some?
Of the doors or or new collaborators that you found
(33:13):
through that success with South by to then go into the next
project cause most everything inour industry is it's it's a.
Leap. To the next, always.
I think, you know, it on a personal level gave me a certain
level of confidence around writing, around production,
around just my voice and point of view and being like, OK, you
(33:36):
know, I had a short before that that also did really well in
like, the regional Film Festivalcircuit.
And then it was like, OK, but let's see if we can do it again.
And then Dear Mama happened and it was like, OK, like you are a
film maker. Your voice deserves to be heard
just like everyone else's. So personally, I think I walked
into rooms a little bit differently.
(33:58):
I think professionally, you know, I, I, I recognize that
it's a tricky business. And, you know, the films that
you want to tell and make, you might not be able to make in
that season. And so I was really trying to be
as honest with myself as possible.
Like, OK, how do we like build sustainability in this?
And that's where the TV of it all came in of like, OK, well,
(34:19):
we have this film that's done really well and it shows that
you I can work with actors, you know, and I can tell story.
And I had had, you know, there were some TV execs who actually
had already seen the film on thecircuit or my teams that maybe
sent it out. And so I started to see like,
oh, wow. Like as an executive at like a
major place, like, and they see the value in my quiet movie.
(34:41):
OK, cool. Maybe there is room for me in
the TV world. And so that's what sort of
kicked off the TV fellowship space of it all because I've now
done several fellowships and TV and I've been breaking into TV.
And I think Dear Mama was a big part of that, which is so funny
to me because I don't really consider it to be like the most
(35:02):
TV of samples, you know, like itdoesn't really have like that
vibe about it. But I guess like good work is
good work. And, and I think I'm grateful
that, like, people saw sort of like the value in it and saw
like how skill sets could be transferred over to, you know, a
television show now, Junebug. Was your first short that had
(35:25):
festival success, right? What were the lessons that you
learned there that you then implemented with your Mama?
Cool, Yeah. Well, I love Junebug, like not
as many people know it, but likeI said it, it did really well
and it was my first film ever. So for our first short, I was
like, really proud of it. I learned a lot.
(35:45):
Like, technically I learned about, you know, just the
mechanism of a short film. And like, when less is more, I
think like, I learned a lot about the edit.
And going back, I'd be like, OK,I could have shaved off certain
amount of minutes on this movie that I thought I couldn't
because people wouldn't be, wouldn't understand and they
(36:05):
would have. Or you know, Junebug also has
these quiet, sort of tender moments that I didn't I thought
were beautiful, but I still had moments of life.
Well, other people think they'rebeautiful.
And then seeing that they did gave me a certain level of
confidence and dear Mama to be like, we don't need that.
Or someone being like, you got to really explain.
(36:25):
Like maybe we should add a line of dialogue that really like
explains XY and Z and it's like,no, they're with us.
Like if we got to explain it, then we didn't do our job 2
minutes before, right? Like we're going to earn the
silence, right? Like we're not just going to do
it, but by the time we get to this beat, they're with us.
(36:46):
And I don't know if I would havehad that same confidence if I
hadn't had made a film like Junebug.
And Junebug also being a family drama in many ways, I felt like,
OK, you've already made a familydrama short that has had
success. So you can kind of push what
that means visually. You can push what that means in
(37:07):
the silences. You can push performances even
more because you know that you know how to get them right.
So yeah, I'm, I'm really fortunate that I had Joomba
because I think I would have made some of those mistakes on
Dear Mama. And Dear Mama might not have
been the film that it became theart of.
Storytelling through short film and the framework there, there
(37:28):
is a skill set to learn. How did you find your voice and
your strengths in that space, and what advice do you wish you
had going in? Man, short films are way harder
than people think. Honestly, I think people, I,
I've, I've heard people who've made several features be like,
dude, shorts are harder. Obviously, you know, features
(37:51):
are bigger, so there's more to do and more to like manage, but
short films is still filmmaking and filmmaking is hard.
I would say the thing I wish I knew specifically going into
Jimba, because with Dear Mama, Ihad more support.
So I had it was in a fellowship.So I had people sort of like
reinforcing certain things. But real estate in a short is
(38:14):
like so incredibly important andlike time, right?
Like if you're going to spend time, you have to earn that in a
short while in a feature, you can spend time and it's the
feature. So you know, it's like you just
have more real estate to play with.
And if you're, if you're making a short to be programmed,
(38:34):
sometimes you're making a short for you like you're making a
short for whatever reason. It's not always the play
festivals, which is fair. But I think if you're making a
short because you want to be programmed on the festival
circuit, real estate and time becomes even more important.
So for me, if if I'm making a short now it needs to be under
(38:54):
15 minutes, one, because it's easier to slot a 15 under short
versus a 30 plus minutes short. Like if you're going to do that,
you got to really earn that timeslot and you're probably going
to play less because it's such acommitment to program your work.
So things like like that, you know, even like writing, like
(39:14):
even with my the last time I just made play hard.
I remember being in the script and I sort of had a dual beat,
like two different scenes and that sort of had the same
objective. And I was like, what?
And I was like kind of wrestlingwith it.
And I realized it's like, because you're somewhere in you,
you're afraid you're not going to land it the first time so you
can have it again. And it's like being able to
(39:36):
check yourself. Like what role does this play
honestly? And if that beat and this beat
are the same beat and a short, then there's some story work to
do because you don't need both, right?
Like that stuff is it's just really important and a short and
also vibe and mood and visual. Like it's just a cool
(39:58):
opportunity to like express yourpoint of view both as like a
storyteller, but also as like a visual storyteller.
Like what images do I find beautiful?
What type of cut style? Like, I think I've had a lot of
fun. In the edit, you doing stuff
that people are like, that's nothow you edit.
And I'm like, but that seems right to this story.
(40:19):
No. And that's usually the thing
people applaud because they're like, wow, I didn't that's not
what I would have expected to see.
And it's like, yeah, take those chances on your shorts.
So it's all of, for me, it's allabout confidence.
So when I'm walking into a feature, I'm not going, oh man,
if I don't cut it the way they said, is it going to be bad?
Because now I can look back and be like, but they said that was
(40:41):
going to be bad. That was dope so like trust
yourself if you think it's dope,try it do it, you know but yeah
I will say that y'all shorts aren't easy they're short, but
they are not easy for real. What is your?
Creative process like in approaching a new project.
I process by talking, which is why I thought I wasn't going to
(41:02):
be a writer because being in a room by myself, I, I mean, to an
extent, sure, but like, I got totalk.
So I got to be like, I, I mean, one, I like to hear what you
think. Like I'm the director.
That's like, did you read it? What did you think?
Put stuff out? Were you bored?
When were you bored? When did you hear like, I'm
like, tell me everything becauseto me it's like you're my first
(41:24):
audience. You're the first people to read
this thing and not have any likeI'm so in it now.
So I kind of want those fresh insights from my collaborate and
I trust them. I trust their tastes, I trust
their sensibilities. Like I don't do that just in
general because I don't trust everybody's sensibilities and
not everyone knows how I tell story.
My people know me and they know like how I do things.
(41:48):
So they're in their impulse, like their impulses about the
work are really important to me.And then yeah, I love to talk
about what I find beautiful and a non sort of like ego way.
Like, dude, this beat is just, Ican't stop thinking about it.
I just think it's so pretty like, and depending on who I'm
talking to, like, I mean, even my producers, they're very
(42:09):
creative. So I will be talking about how I
see it and like the pace of it and like, dude, and if we could
find music that's like this and imagine like it's like dreaming.
That's the fun part because it'sno, you know, and of course
they're taking that information and I'm sure their brains are
like numbers, location, like they are starting to do their
work, but they like to hear whatI'm excited about.
(42:31):
So when it comes time to compromise, they're like, we
can't compromise this because this is really important to her.
But I feel like if we pitched maybe that being that she might
be down because that, you know, it's like, follow what you're
excited about. And yeah, same with my DP just
talking about the images I see and the stories I'm thinking of.
(42:51):
Or I'll be like, dude, does thisnot feel like warm?
Right. Like it just when I read it, I
just want it to be so warm and like so cozy.
And he's already like, Oh, yeah,I see that.
And like, you know, I think that's sort of like, honest that
whatever that is, audience can'tsee me, but I'm making like, a
this. I think that's the stuff that
(43:13):
makes you make things that feel uniquely ours because we're
building it around what we're actually excited about and not
from like, a heady, like, you know, we'll get to that.
The production meetings and the numbers, of course, that's
filmmaking. But at first, let's be excited
first, yeah? And I mean, obviously this goes
(43:33):
back to you found your creative community, you found those
collaborators that built you up.I'm curious how you learn to
trust your instincts and like bet on your own artistry.
Or if easier to answer like whatwould be your advice to those
coming up of like how to find their voice 'cause I think so
often we are waiting for someoneto give us permission honestly.
(43:58):
For me, I don't know if it wouldwork for everyone, but learn
what you like, like really like.I think I'm really grateful for
those years as being a dancer and an actor at a very young age
because it made me have to form an opinion on what I like and
don't like. And trust me, there's stuff I
(44:18):
don't like. There's stuff people love that
I'm like. I don't like.
I don't get it. I don't see what I don't get it
and I don't find it interesting.And no shade because you should
be able to create whatever you want, but I also as a person
have to know what I find interesting.
And so I think that as simple asthat maybe sounds to me is the
(44:40):
sort of like beginning of forming your taste and your
voice, because then it becomes if you're making, especially if
it's, well, no, any project, I was going to say your project
versus something you're hired todirect because that is a
slightly different sort of like dynamic.
But if it's your project, now you've got to ask yourself like,
do I care honestly? Like do I care about this thing
(45:04):
I'm looking at? And if I hopefully do, what do I
care about it? Because that's to me is what
directing is like. I loved in school getting five
different couples the same sceneand saying, you have two days to
build a scene and then we all come back in the room and you
share your scene and you see that every scene is different
(45:25):
because everybody found something different that they
were excited to explore in the same material.
And I guess that comes from justtheater in general, like you're
directing plays that have been directed hundreds of times
before you showed up. And so it's not so much like
doing the thing, it's being like, OK, what do I care about
(45:47):
in this thing? Let's lean into that because
then this is going to not just be the telling of the story.
It's going to be the way we toldthis story, and it's going to
feel unique to the people in this room.
So that is sort of how I think of it.
But that's also, I guess, the advice I would give someone else
as we wind. Down.
(46:07):
What are the challenges you wantto take on?
What is on the horizon? Whatever you can tell us about
what you're working on now? Totally.
I have a short film that is has been on the circuit the past
year titled Play Hard that I'm stoked by and we were just given
a Vimeo Staff Pic selection and so that's out for the world to
see, which is really exciting. I'm sort of dreaming up a longer
(46:31):
format version of that story 'cause I am excited to tackle a
feature. I feel very ready to tell a
story at that sort of scope while still staying true to who
I am and the what I find interesting.
So that's on the horizon. I've been doing a lot of work
with different networks and TV fellowships around LA and around
(46:57):
the country. I mean the world.
So I'm excited to continue breaking into TV.
It's, it's trickier post strike just cuz everything's changing
and so it's harder to take a shot on a newer episodic
director. But I've, I mean, I've been on
so many sets the past year, all literally over the world that it
is like a really cool opportunity to be hired to learn
(47:21):
and to get in and to see how people do the work.
So I'm excited to see, you know,where all of that sort of like
opens up for me. And I'm also, you know, writing
and other things are cooking, But it's a it's an exciting time
personally, within a very crazy time in our business.
(47:41):
You close every. Episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back and tell your
younger self? One thing I wish I could go back
and tell my younger self, trust your pictures.
Trust your pictures and trust yourself.
You know more than you think youdo, so just go do it.
Just walk it out and it'll all work out fine.
(48:03):
Linda, thank you so much for joining us on the pod.
Today was so fun to chat with you.
Thank you. Thank.
You for having me, I really appreciate the time, this was
fun. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
(48:25):
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone, today what's my frame?
I'm Joe by award-winning filmmaker Winter Dunn.
Winter is dedicated to amplifying universal narratives
through the lens of by pop voices.
Her short film Dear Mama premiered at South by Southwest
and won the N double ACP Image Award for outstanding Short
Film. Today, Winter shares her
creativity and heart with us as she takes us through her
(00:24):
creative process, how she buildstrust with actors on set, and
the inspiration and pictures that inspire her.
This episode is filled with so much encouragement and heart,
and one of my new favorite quotes, Leading with Curiosity.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:44):
Hey Winter, welcome to What's MyFrame?
How you doing? I'm so good, I'm so good.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for making the time to
share your creativity and your beautiful smile with me.
The audience can't see it, but we're going to chat and and dive
into process. We like to start every
conversation kind of the same way with your creative origin
story. What made you fall in love with
(01:06):
the arts and choose this as yourcareer?
Yeah, totally. Well, you know, I'm, I'm from
the Midwest, I'm from Indiana, right outside of Chicago, and
I'm from Gary, IN more specifically, which it's a city
with a lot of history and a sortof lot of preconceived notions.
But what a lot of people don't know is that is it, it is an
(01:26):
incredibly creative place and a lot of creative souls have come
through that part of the country.
And so growing up, I was really shy and I was really quiet.
I'm a neuro divergent, which I know what that is now.
But back then in the 90s, right?Like I don't, no one knows what
that was, especially in women and young girls, right?
It was just like, she's very well behaved and very much to
(01:48):
herself. And so my mom, she was like a
writer. She had theater troupes all
around the region. She, you know, did stuff for the
church. And so I was always around
creativity. I started dancing in the church
and from there went to art schools for dance.
And so that's when it started to, like, hit for me that I was
able to express myself more fully when I was connected to
(02:11):
creativity. And it was almost like even the
people around me were like, whoa, that girl's got a lot
inside of her because I was so kind of quiet into myself.
So that was like a big turning point where I was like, OK, I
think creativity and the arts are going to be a part of my
life. I don't know if it'll be dance
forever, even though I love thismedium, but I think it'll be in
(02:31):
this world. And so from dance, I, you know,
I stopped dancing maybe like sophomore year high school and
was very fortunate to take a random acting class in Chicago.
And my teacher was like, you gotsomething interesting, something
special. I'd like you to audition for my
Academy in Chicago. So I auditioned for the Chicago
Academy for the Arts and got in two weeks before junior year
(02:53):
started, which was insane, right?
So now I'm commuting from Indiana to Chicago for high
school and got a scholarship that allowed me to be there.
And it was in that those years as an actor that I took my first
directing course and directed myfirst one act.
And I'll never forget Chris Arnold, my directing teacher.
(03:14):
He set in on my rehearsal, whichhe was doing the other three
people directing. And then he just left
afterwards. And I was like, oh, my God.
Everyone else said he talked a lot, and he was very involved.
And I was so in my head, and I was like, Chris, like, what?
I mean, are you not like, what'sup?
And he was like, I didn't want to interrupt your process.
I thought there was something really special happening in that
room, and it didn't need me butting into it.
(03:36):
And I was like, oh, and then theshow ended up being incredibly
well received from people who I really respect and who have been
in this, in the arts their wholelives and are now committed to
it in this Academy setting. And I was like, oh, huh, that's
interesting. And graduated, went to Fordham
in New York City for acting, butstill had that like that in the
(03:57):
back of my head, like, what was that?
And it wasn't until I graduated,living in New York, it was being
poor in New York is not the sameas being a student in New York
where you feel like you're living.
You know, I'm on 60th and 9th Central Park West frolicking.
And then I graduated and it was like, oh, I can't do that as an
adult. That's paying her bills and not
(04:17):
on like, scholarship for school.And I was like, I got to figure
something out. And the one thing I kept coming
back to is I kept saying, I havepictures in my head.
I have these like moments in my head that aren't on stage.
And I want to figure out how to get those out into the world.
And literally with that, and I visited a friend in LA and she
had a home that felt livable in like a living room.
(04:38):
It was small, but it was like anactual home.
And I was living in a box the size of this room.
And I was like, I think I'm going to go to LA and I'm going
to see what these pictures in myhead are.
And literally that was the startof everything I've been doing to
this point, just trusting and going, hey, you know what, let's
see what that is and see how that feels.
And I'm glad I did it because I think I was all those different
(05:01):
types of creatives because I wassupposed to be able to work with
different types of creatives andfind middle ground with people.
And I'm really excited for the journey.
I think it's so interesting how sometimes we have gateway dreams
then like open up another another lane of creativity for
us. And I was curious how where you
have had different elements of your career, how does 1 inform
(05:24):
one another and support it? I think for me quite a bit.
I think I'm a very like intuitive creative.
I think there are a lot of film people who are like, they
consider themselves like, I am more of a technician than I am a
creative soul, which I respect. Everyone's sort of entry point.
That's not me at all, right? Like I didn't really get into
(05:46):
film to be like, I want to figure out how I can do this
cool machinery thing or how do we feel like that just wasn't
the why I I just really wanted to express myself and find like
minded people and make beautifulwork together.
And so, you know, I think the way that I direct honestly feels
very much connected to my years as a dancer and being like, OK,
(06:08):
how does body move through space?
What feels authentic to where the body would want to go versus
like if you stand there, the shot is that, you know, it's
like let the camera sort of be inspired by bodies in space.
And I think my film sort of you feel that in it.
So yeah, I think being an actor,I, I like to think I'm an
(06:30):
actor's director and my film work specifically is all about
performance. My films are very quiet.
They're not dialogue heavy, they're not action heavy.
So you need to be able to trust that the performances are going
to tell these stories. And so I don't know if I could
make films the way that I do if I didn't have years of
(06:50):
experience as an actor and knowing what it feels like to be
on that side of the process and,and really respecting that side
of the process. So yeah, they're all
intertwined. And I think I I direct because I
had those experiences. You mentioned about these
pictures that you had in your head.
How do they start appearing for you?
I think they kind of always werethere.
(07:11):
I always had a sense of what I found beautiful.
And I think not to go back, but I think that started in dance
because I was in environments that were very grounded and and
emotionally rich. Like I didn't, you know, my
dance background wasn't calm. So it wasn't like it was very
like, you know, we would even inthe choreography, people would
(07:34):
be like, whoa, like those young people are evoking something
very much older than them, I would say.
And I think that's where that started.
Or like learning that something really small and tender could be
far more impactful than a big explosion.
And so that's where that's I mean, I really think it started
in those little rooms as a little black girl dancing with
(07:57):
other girls, trying to learn to express ourselves.
And same with like in the black box theater, I would see work
with two people in a chair and Iwould leave so moved.
And I think that's where those things started to come together.
Like the pictures in my head weren't these big elaborate
pictures. They were like a hand touching a
song, You know, it was like verylike micro moments, which is
(08:20):
very much what I sort of love tounpack.
So it's, I don't know if I have like that one image that started
it all, but I think that was always kind of in there.
It was more of like, what do youfind beautiful?
Your journey from a student to an adult in New York and then
finding your home in LA, how didyou start finding your community
where you went to school in New York and that kind of kind of
(08:44):
has a built in network communityfor you versus you had a friend
here. But like how did you start
finding your collaborators and finding like your part of LA?
Because I think that's so important to then transition it
to being your home. That's a really good question
and I think is even it's, it's important wherever you live, but
specifically in LA because it isa very isolating place and
(09:06):
people can just be physically sofar away from each other.
I don't know. I think because I was living in
New York, I sort of came to LA with a New York sense of like
hustle. I still have it.
But to be honest, I'm, I'm agingand I feel like I'm like, I want
to slow down. But when I first got here, I was
like, where we at, what we doing, you know, like that was
just like how life moved to me. And I remember like.
(09:28):
So while I was still at Fordham,I studied abroad 1 semester.
I started finding these web series rooted in the black
experience, rooted in South LA in a way I had never seen S LA.
And I was like, this is good work.
The performances are great, the writing is rich.
So when I got to Lai just started talking to people about
those shows and a lot of people had no idea what I was talking
(09:50):
about. But then one day someone did
know what I was talking about and I was like, oh wow, I love,
you know, this work. And she's like, oh, me too.
And we kind of lost track. And I remember maybe a year
later, I emailed a company that was producing this content.
What series? Like narrative, you know, mini
series. And I got an e-mail back
inviting me to an event they were holding at their production
(10:11):
office for like Valentine's Day or something.
And I was like, woah, how cool, I'll get to meet the people who
make this work. And when I got there, the girl I
had met a year prior had been working for them now and she was
who emailed me back. So it was like this weird, like,
and I remember a friend said, when you get to LA, open your
mouth, open your mouth, talk about what you like.
Like a lot of people aren't going to care, but someone
(10:33):
might. And that was my story.
And so I'm grateful that those sort of like small production
communities, I met my friends, Imet people who I like to work
with. I was like, I'm smart, I'm
hungry, I want to learn how thisworks.
And they were like, well, we're a small team, get in here.
You're smart, you're a hard worker.
Like we'll put you to work. So that's really how that
(10:54):
started. And then from there I started
doing, you know, film fellowships in LA specifically
with film independent. They were a big, big turning
point for me when I got into my first fellowship with them.
Like the DPI work with to this day, I found through them my
producers, I found with them. Like I'll be, you know, if I
(11:14):
need something or if I'm asking questions about e-mail, someone
from artist development, like, hey, do you guys happen to know
anyone that does this or So for me, it was like opening my
mouth, finding communities, making stuff I like.
And then on the flip side, taking advantage of the
organizations that do exist in acity like LA and, and showing up
hungry and ready to work and ready to learn and really
(11:38):
wanting to know folks and, and find people that I've clicked
with. And I think that sort of that
was the hunger that really opened up the doors and the
communities I'm like, still working with now, just crazy.
You've had the opportunity to work your craft in a number of
really prestigious programs and fellowships.
How did you find the right opportunities and mentors for
(11:58):
you? And how did those programs
specifically that you partnered with support your craft and your
voice and your unique contributions to the business?
Like half that question is mentorship and then the other
half is how did the programs help facilitate that?
I think for me, the programs were a big part of that.
(12:19):
You know, like, I think maybe because I studied in Chicago at
a young age, right, and then went to New York City and became
sort of who I was as a person, as an adult in New York and then
came to Lai think I just understood, like, no one owes
you anything and like no one really cares about you yet,
(12:42):
right? Like, and not from a judgement
place. It's just like they don't know
you. So why are they going to go out
of their way to to like help you, You know what I mean?
Like you have to show them like,hey, I'm someone you want to
know, right? Like I'm someone you want to
teach because I'm actually listening and I'm going to apply
it or I'm going to bring what I do know and be honest about what
(13:03):
I don't know, you know? And I think that posture has
helped me in the programs because you can tell that people
are like, oh, OK, cool. She's not just here for the
stamp to say that she did the thing.
She's really here because she wants to be better at this.
And I'm like, I do. And I am very honest about the
fact that there's so much I don't know.
(13:24):
I come from the theater. I come from being on stage.
Like I wasn't making little films at 5 and like, you know,
like working with all these different cameras, or my dad
wasn't ADP or my mom wasn't a producer.
Like I didn't grow up in this, which is fine.
And I think maybe it's exciting to see more people who are
finding it through just a purelycreative lens.
(13:47):
But that also means there's a lot of learning to do.
So if I'm here and you have information that I need, I'm
going to ask you what that information is.
And that I think up to this point, that's really served me
well in the fellowship space. Were there certain elements that
you were looking for at different chapters of your
(14:08):
creative process? Totally, totally.
I think before I would go in, I would always ask like, what is
it that you feel like you need or you're missing?
So you know, it could be a specific collaborator, it could
be a skill set, it could be, youknow, anything.
I just like to be is try to be. It's harder, it's harder than it
(14:31):
seems, but I try to be clear about what it is.
The thing I feel like that's stopping me from being at the
next level of what I want to do.So if it's like, hey, I have
ideas, but I'm a neurodivergent and I have a really hard time
sort of like breaking this like idea that feels very intuitive
into like a clear plot driven like narrative.
(14:54):
So it's like, hey, who's the story consultant?
Let me talk to them about what I'm thinking about and have, you
know, like their whole job is knowing story and knowing
structure. And I know how to bring all the
in between, all the subtext, allthe rich visual, all that
performance I got. Help me make sure this is a
story that will land and won't just look cool or look pretty or
(15:16):
whatever, you know? So yeah, just being clear about
what it is you're actually trying to take away.
And I think that helps people help you because now they know,
like, oh, OK, cool. Let's figure out how to fill
that gap for you. If you are comfortable talking
about it, I'm curious if there was a a crossroads or someone
(15:38):
that kind of validated for you talking about being a
neurodivergent creative. I think my neurodivergency adds
so much to my creativity. I'm OK with acknowledging
moments where I need to like take a beat, you know, because
it's like they work hand in hand.
And then in terms of people, I don't know if I can think of a
specific person in regard to like neurodivergency, but I've
(16:02):
had I'm I'm blessed to have, especially in TV, have been met
and shadowed really incredible directors who like affirm me and
the way that I do it and want todo it.
I think the person who comes to mind first his he's a filmmaker
from being a stuntman of Ben Hernandez Bray, who was a sick,
I mean, so incredibly talented TV director and like cool as
(16:27):
hell, like, you know, has just like lived life like some real
life. And it's like he gets that sense
of not only being in film from the day he was born, but like
finding film through other means, being a stunt person.
And so he also gets a sense of bodies and space and
choreography and things like that.
So we really click or, you know,it's like a that hustle and me
(16:50):
being like, dude, like I don't know how people blocked like
that. That is so heady.
And I would get so he's like, girl, same.
But this how I do it. Like I'll walk and then you see
someone be so cool, but then yousee them work and they're so
good and you're like, OK, dope. I can be that good and still be
(17:10):
me and still like be myself in this.
So he's someone that I, I just, I love Ben and he's I'm really
grateful to have him like as a mentor.
He's awesome, what have you. Learned from the mentors and the
people that you respect and haveworked with.
What have you learned to adapt as your like non negotiables
(17:31):
going into a project that's a. Really good question.
Well, I've learned to like not be afraid to speak up for what I
need. I mean, there's so many layers
to that question. There's the side of it that's
like before you're in the project itself, right?
Like we're negotiating whatever.I think I've learned to open my
(17:51):
mouth more, right? I, I, I don't think I come
across as a quiet person, but I can be.
And so before I would just be like, OK, like whatever they
know best. Like, OK, you know, just more so
taking and, and, and, and receiving.
And now I've learned like even when it comes to my reps like
ask the question like, hey guys,would it make sense for us to
like ask for this or what do youthink about XYZ When before I
(18:16):
would be like, well, you guys got it.
So just like let me know. And I'm really fortunate that I
have reps that are just really beautiful people.
So it's always a conversation orif I'm asking a question,
they're down to answer it. So that I've learned just like
not being afraid to open your mouth, which maybe seems
obvious, but sometimes isn't in this business.
(18:37):
And then I think when I'm in thework, learning that like, like,
like I used to be like, especially in TVI would have an
impulse and then be like, no, no, no, no, no.
And then I start having my own inner dialogue about the impulse
about anything, right? Especially these bigger sort of
projects where there's like so many elements.
And then as I'm shadowing these directors, they'll say the
(19:00):
impulse I had, but they'll just say it and then be like, this
is, you know, and then somebody else adds to that.
And it's like, well, let's get atest.
Like let's just see it and then we'll figure out from there.
And I'm like, right, when you'relike, you're having good
instincts, but you're, you're sort of pushing your own
instincts down as opposed to voicing the instinct and then
seeing what comes of it and knowing that it's specifically
(19:22):
in ATV space or maybe even a studio feature space.
There are people who give you a test and like options of that
thing. So you don't have to sit in your
own brain and be like, well, maybe it won't work because it
might look like that. And if it looks like that, what
does that mean? Just say it and then look at
different options and then choose from there, right?
It's a visual medium. And so that's something I've
(19:42):
learned coming from being like indie into walking into these
bigger budget like rooms. It's like, oh, right, I can
voice what I'm thinking. And there are people here to
help me make that a tangible thing, so that that's something
I'm still learning and sort of still getting used to.
Yeah. How do you?
Like to build trust and create asafe environment for your
(20:06):
actors, especially when you are asking them to go to these
vulnerable spaces. I like to.
Ask some questions and and sort of treat them like a real
collaborator in the process. Because every actor is
different, right? Like some actors want to know
the why, right? Like why did, why are we writing
this? Like, why is the story like, who
is this guy like for you, like, you know, is this connected to?
(20:29):
And so for some actors, that's food, right?
They're like consuming that and they know how to funnel through
that to use what serves them andto be able to sort of like let
go. It doesn't.
While some actors are the opposite.
It's like if you give me all this stuff that's all in my head
and my impulses and my physical body is stifled.
(20:50):
And so as opposed to assuming, I'm asking how do you like to
work right? Like, you know, what's the vibe?
Do you, do you, do you want to know more about the story and
the why behind the story and sort of some of the things I'm
puzzling with about this and no answers even, right?
Like this is interesting to me because of this.
(21:10):
Then I'm sort of questioning whyXYZ and some actors I found are
like, oh, I love that. That's an interesting question.
Now I'm going to chew on that question for myself and allow
whatever comes up to come up. So that's sort of how I balance
that, asking more questions thangiving answers and letting them
(21:33):
tell me what they need. And, and I think to specifically
in film, I think my process is maybe a bit different in the TV
space, but really in film, letting them know I am arriving
here with curiosity as well. There is no right final way.
There is maybe a way I could imagine it, but there is no one
(21:57):
way because you weren't here yet.
And so we're going to have to find this together.
And I'll give you sort of guardrails, right?
Because I'm aware of camera and sound and the edit and all these
other things. So you don't feel like you're
off in space just kind of floating.
But you also feel like this person needs me in the room to
(22:17):
make the thing. And it's like, yeah, I do.
That's why you're here. And casting is so important to
me because I, I can't, I don't know if I could work with actors
who aren't curious and excited to sort of explore, you know, if
you're like, just tell me where to be.
I'm like, OK, I can. But sure.
You know, then it kind of takes away some of the, the magic that
(22:38):
we might have found together. I'm curious.
What is your rehearsal strategy?What are the the techniques or
like the touchstones for you of how you like to come into a
space and bring in your actors and and work through things?
Yeah, I'm going to speak from a film place again because I know
you've done a ton of television,so you do know there is a sense
(22:59):
of, you know, the way ATV rehearsal works.
But even in that, I still like to keep the same posture.
I just might. The speed of things or whatever
might move a little bit differently, but I like to sort
of, I like to clear the set. I don't like having people
staring at you while you're trying to find your bearings.
(23:20):
Yeah. If there, if it is a dialogue
sequence thing, we'll read the words together and sort of be
like, are there questions? And usually we've asked those
questions before we're standing on the set.
So it's usually like if there isa question, it's a piggyback
from something we were already talking about or like, hey, I
was thinking about that thing wesaid.
And I think it might be interesting if I start here
(23:43):
because the, you know, like whatever that is, if there isn't
any clear impulse of like where you need to be, then I'll, I'll
kind of walk it with you. Like this is what I'm thinking,
right? And, and, and kind of talking
through the inner stuff, right? Like, so we're here.
But he, it seems to me like he'strying to figure out that so
that might bring him in this world like, but it's always
(24:06):
almost like a question like, huh, you know, so there's that
sense of confirmation of like, yeah, I buy that and then.
OK. And then, you know, just it's
like leading with curiosity is what I like to say while still
director technical meet is like,but this will be the best frame
and then that might be the best place for this.
(24:28):
And my DP is not with us, but he's nearby because he is the
more intuitive DP. He's not like lighting you while
you're trying to. He is too interested in the
questions, which is why we work so well together.
So then we're also, it's like having our own little
conversation while I'm talking with actors and it feels, it
just kind of becomes this littleand before you know it, we're
(24:49):
like, oh, it's blocked. Oh, I didn't realize it was
blocked. Almost.
It almost feels great love. Now let's light around that and
and see that's my process, leading with curiosity, having a
plan, but really not allowing itto sort of dictate what the
thing has to be. I think I've found some success
in that because it usually becomes something far better
(25:10):
than my plan. So I'm like, let's do the best
version. Not my version, you know,
Winter. We found the quote for the
episode leaning with Curiosity. Oh I love.
Thanks. I'm gonna write that down too.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel like. Good, I'm mulling on that now.
I'd love to talk about your short Dear Mama.
What was the inspiration for thefilm and pre production life
(25:31):
like before we dive into it's festival life?
Totally. Yeah, Dear Mama was a special 1.
I actually made it with Film Independent and their project
involved Fellowship, which was the first film fellowship I ever
did. And so talking about the posture
leading into a fellowship space,that was the space.
I was asking a lot of questions and very curious and being
(25:55):
honest about what I didn't know,but feeling confident about what
I could do. And so when Dear Mama sort of
came up, it was already in development when I was attached,
but it was started. It was having a hard time sort
of like finding its legs like right?
Like we knew it was like a father.
We knew there was a daughter, there was a mom, but it really
wasn't even decide if mom would like show up on camera either in
(26:17):
flashbacks. Like it was very like a loose
structure. The Tupac of it all had already
been sort of like established inthe story, which I thought was
cool. And so when I was attached, it
kind of needed to just be sort of landed.
It just felt very up in the air.A lot of elements of it, which
was exciting but really scary for me because I was like, OK,
(26:40):
like I'm not really like a writer, but like, maybe I am
like, I don't know. They just, they affirmed my
abilities honestly more than I was willing to sort of own at
that time. And that was, it was scary
because everything I saw about the story was very quiet.
And I remember someone reading like one of my drafts and they
(27:02):
were like, I don't really know, like, like what's happening?
Like nothing's really. And they weren't saying it in a
judgement place. Like they were genuinely like,
nothing's happening. And then I'd be like, no, no,
no, no, like so much is happening.
OK, Look. And this, that pause is really
like, she's trying to do this and he's trying to do that, but
they're they can't. Then all of a sudden they're
like, oh, wow. Well, that's really OK.
(27:22):
Yeah, do that. That's beautiful.
That sounds. And I was like, OK, right.
And it was someone, Ruth Atkinson, who's a story
consultant, who I just adore andwork with her as often as I can.
She was the one that told me, like, you write like a director,
right? Like, you don't write everything
on the page because you know what the moment is.
And so you allow sort of like ina play.
(27:44):
I come from theater, right? So it'll just be a beat.
That beat doesn't just mean stoptalking for a second and then
keep talking. Like so much is happening in the
beat and it requires everyone inthe room to be present to even
pick up on all the nuances of what that one word beat means.
You know, that's what dear Mama was for me.
(28:06):
Like learning to trust my instincts.
Learning to trust silences, learning how to work with my DP
and how we like to, we call it it's a dance.
Like we don't like to lock really anything.
We like to sort of allow things to be discovered in the moment.
And yeah, I love Dear Mama. Dear Mama was like the film that
(28:28):
I was like, all right. And then to see its success,
knowing the origin and how scaryand like how uncertain it was,
it really became like, oh OK, trust yourself.
Even when it really feels like it's not going to happen.
Just trust and just keep walkingforward.
Because even if it's not the award-winning buzzy thing, like
(28:50):
we got to be OK with that too. It's going to be good word,
right? Like regardless, it'll find its
people. But I won't lie, it was really
cool to see it be like kind of an award-winning buzzy thing to
this quiet movie around grief around this young black girl.
As someone who was a quiet sort of in her room by herself Black
(29:10):
girl knowing so much is happening in that person.
You're just moving too fast to see.
It was really sort of special for me, something that really
stood. Out for me and watching your
work is, you know, as an actor, it's all about listening and
it's like how does it land? It goes back and forth and in so
many instances I saw in the actor's eye, it was like it hit,
(29:34):
but it got into deeper levels oflike processing for her.
And it was so like, I don't knowhow you got to that level of
like just that, like trust fall with your actors.
But it was so beautiful to see that stillness in our world is
so busy and moving at such a pace and sets are such a, you
(29:55):
know, cacophony of sound and energy and moving pieces.
And there's never enough time ormoney and everything into the to
land in such a a still place, which is so beautiful.
And I'm curious, obviously it did.
It did become a South by Southwest darling and it did
have this in a festival life. What was the journey for like
(30:16):
picking where to submit, how to submit?
Who were those like, you know, festival fairy godmothers, if
you will, that helped guide the way for that, Yeah.
I remember being like, I love this movie.
My team loved it. We were like, this is so
beautiful. But I've never like, like kind
of going back to before, like not assuming anyone is going to
(30:39):
want to lean into the thing thatyou're loving to do.
So I just, I didn't know, like Iwas like, I think it's
beautiful, but I have no clue who else might find it beautiful
or who or even sit in the silence or in the quiet with us.
You know, like I'm like, if we submit and it's all these big
fuzzy loud films, it might sort of get swept under the red,
like, I don't know, right. And so we just did the thing you
(31:03):
submit, especially the top of the year festivals.
To me, that was the smartest strategy.
It's like into like, I think thefilm was completed in like
October, maybe November. So it just made sense to be
like, cool, let's use the year as you know the thing.
So you sort of apply to all the things that have the early in
the year submission deadlines and then you kind of use that to
(31:25):
sort of guide, OK, that's maybe,you know, where are the type of
festivals that are open up to us.
And thankfully South by is what February, maybe top of March.
I think you get the acceptance in maybe January.
So I remember, yeah, it was because my birthday is January
14th. So I found out a few days before
my birthday and that was so coolbecause I was like, damn, like I
(31:47):
love South By. I had already been to South By
and I just have always loved thespirit and the energy.
It kind of feels like a festivalfor everybody, right?
Whether you are like a film connoisseur or are we just a
person that likes cool stuff? Like you can go to South By and
find something for you. And I've always loved that.
So that was cool for me. Like, all right, we're going to
(32:08):
South By. Dope so then, you know, I mean
just the industry that does thenopen up certain things because
people are now going to see you at South by the program is
everyone's at a festival like that.
So you know, we did our due diligence in the submissions and
stuff, but then there were also festivals that reached out to us
like hey, I saw you feeling likewe'd love to, you know, have you
(32:29):
and I'm like, OK, that's amazing.
Let us know what you need. Just, you know, being genuinely
like honored to share the word without expectations.
And we were given an honor at Aspen, Aspen Shorts Fest.
And it's a really incredible festival.
I will always recommend it to folks making shorts.
And yeah, I think we were fortunate to land a heavy hitter
(32:52):
like South by so early in the year that it then allowed us to
be like, OK, cool. It kind of gave us, I would say
it gave us confidence early in that year to be like, OK, then
push it out. Let's just see what happens
next, you know? So yeah, it was it was a cool
run for sure. What were some?
Of the doors or or new collaborators that you found
(33:13):
through that success with South by to then go into the next
project cause most everything inour industry is it's it's a.
Leap. To the next, always.
I think, you know, it on a personal level gave me a certain
level of confidence around writing, around production,
around just my voice and point of view and being like, OK, you
(33:36):
know, I had a short before that that also did really well in
like, the regional Film Festivalcircuit.
And then it was like, OK, but let's see if we can do it again.
And then Dear Mama happened and it was like, OK, like you are a
film maker. Your voice deserves to be heard
just like everyone else's. So personally, I think I walked
into rooms a little bit differently.
(33:58):
I think professionally, you know, I, I, I recognize that
it's a tricky business. And, you know, the films that
you want to tell and make, you might not be able to make in
that season. And so I was really trying to be
as honest with myself as possible.
Like, OK, how do we like build sustainability in this?
And that's where the TV of it all came in of like, OK, well,
(34:19):
we have this film that's done really well and it shows that
you I can work with actors, you know, and I can tell story.
And I had had, you know, there were some TV execs who actually
had already seen the film on thecircuit or my teams that maybe
sent it out. And so I started to see like,
oh, wow. Like as an executive at like a
major place, like, and they see the value in my quiet movie.
(34:41):
OK, cool. Maybe there is room for me in
the TV world. And so that's what sort of
kicked off the TV fellowship space of it all because I've now
done several fellowships and TV and I've been breaking into TV.
And I think Dear Mama was a big part of that, which is so funny
to me because I don't really consider it to be like the most
(35:02):
TV of samples, you know, like itdoesn't really have like that
vibe about it. But I guess like good work is
good work. And, and I think I'm grateful
that, like, people saw sort of like the value in it and saw
like how skill sets could be transferred over to, you know, a
television show now, Junebug. Was your first short that had
(35:25):
festival success, right? What were the lessons that you
learned there that you then implemented with your Mama?
Cool, Yeah. Well, I love Junebug, like not
as many people know it, but likeI said it, it did really well
and it was my first film ever. So for our first short, I was
like, really proud of it. I learned a lot.
(35:45):
Like, technically I learned about, you know, just the
mechanism of a short film. And like, when less is more, I
think like, I learned a lot about the edit.
And going back, I'd be like, OK,I could have shaved off certain
amount of minutes on this movie that I thought I couldn't
because people wouldn't be, wouldn't understand and they
(36:05):
would have. Or you know, Junebug also has
these quiet, sort of tender moments that I didn't I thought
were beautiful, but I still had moments of life.
Well, other people think they'rebeautiful.
And then seeing that they did gave me a certain level of
confidence and dear Mama to be like, we don't need that.
Or someone being like, you got to really explain.
(36:25):
Like maybe we should add a line of dialogue that really like
explains XY and Z and it's like,no, they're with us.
Like if we got to explain it, then we didn't do our job 2
minutes before, right? Like we're going to earn the
silence, right? Like we're not just going to do
it, but by the time we get to this beat, they're with us.
(36:46):
And I don't know if I would havehad that same confidence if I
hadn't had made a film like Junebug.
And Junebug also being a family drama in many ways, I felt like,
OK, you've already made a familydrama short that has had
success. So you can kind of push what
that means visually. You can push what that means in
(37:07):
the silences. You can push performances even
more because you know that you know how to get them right.
So yeah, I'm, I'm really fortunate that I had Joomba
because I think I would have made some of those mistakes on
Dear Mama. And Dear Mama might not have
been the film that it became theart of.
Storytelling through short film and the framework there, there
(37:28):
is a skill set to learn. How did you find your voice and
your strengths in that space, and what advice do you wish you
had going in? Man, short films are way harder
than people think. Honestly, I think people, I,
I've, I've heard people who've made several features be like,
dude, shorts are harder. Obviously, you know, features
(37:51):
are bigger, so there's more to do and more to like manage, but
short films is still filmmaking and filmmaking is hard.
I would say the thing I wish I knew specifically going into
Jimba, because with Dear Mama, Ihad more support.
So I had it was in a fellowship.So I had people sort of like
reinforcing certain things. But real estate in a short is
(38:14):
like so incredibly important andlike time, right?
Like if you're going to spend time, you have to earn that in a
short while in a feature, you can spend time and it's the
feature. So you know, it's like you just
have more real estate to play with.
And if you're, if you're making a short to be programmed,
(38:34):
sometimes you're making a short for you like you're making a
short for whatever reason. It's not always the play
festivals, which is fair. But I think if you're making a
short because you want to be programmed on the festival
circuit, real estate and time becomes even more important.
So for me, if if I'm making a short now it needs to be under
(38:54):
15 minutes, one, because it's easier to slot a 15 under short
versus a 30 plus minutes short. Like if you're going to do that,
you got to really earn that timeslot and you're probably going
to play less because it's such acommitment to program your work.
So things like like that, you know, even like writing, like
(39:14):
even with my the last time I just made play hard.
I remember being in the script and I sort of had a dual beat,
like two different scenes and that sort of had the same
objective. And I was like, what?
And I was like kind of wrestlingwith it.
And I realized it's like, because you're somewhere in you,
you're afraid you're not going to land it the first time so you
can have it again. And it's like being able to
(39:36):
check yourself. Like what role does this play
honestly? And if that beat and this beat
are the same beat and a short, then there's some story work to
do because you don't need both, right?
Like that stuff is it's just really important and a short and
also vibe and mood and visual. Like it's just a cool
(39:58):
opportunity to like express yourpoint of view both as like a
storyteller, but also as like a visual storyteller.
Like what images do I find beautiful?
What type of cut style? Like, I think I've had a lot of
fun. In the edit, you doing stuff
that people are like, that's nothow you edit.
And I'm like, but that seems right to this story.
(40:19):
No. And that's usually the thing
people applaud because they're like, wow, I didn't that's not
what I would have expected to see.
And it's like, yeah, take those chances on your shorts.
So it's all of, for me, it's allabout confidence.
So when I'm walking into a feature, I'm not going, oh man,
if I don't cut it the way they said, is it going to be bad?
Because now I can look back and be like, but they said that was
(40:41):
going to be bad. That was dope so like trust
yourself if you think it's dope,try it do it, you know but yeah
I will say that y'all shorts aren't easy they're short, but
they are not easy for real. What is your?
Creative process like in approaching a new project.
I process by talking, which is why I thought I wasn't going to
(41:02):
be a writer because being in a room by myself, I, I mean, to an
extent, sure, but like, I got totalk.
So I got to be like, I, I mean, one, I like to hear what you
think. Like I'm the director.
That's like, did you read it? What did you think?
Put stuff out? Were you bored?
When were you bored? When did you hear like, I'm
like, tell me everything becauseto me it's like you're my first
(41:24):
audience. You're the first people to read
this thing and not have any likeI'm so in it now.
So I kind of want those fresh insights from my collaborate and
I trust them. I trust their tastes, I trust
their sensibilities. Like I don't do that just in
general because I don't trust everybody's sensibilities and
not everyone knows how I tell story.
My people know me and they know like how I do things.
(41:48):
So they're in their impulse, like their impulses about the
work are really important to me.And then yeah, I love to talk
about what I find beautiful and a non sort of like ego way.
Like, dude, this beat is just, Ican't stop thinking about it.
I just think it's so pretty like, and depending on who I'm
talking to, like, I mean, even my producers, they're very
(42:09):
creative. So I will be talking about how I
see it and like the pace of it and like, dude, and if we could
find music that's like this and imagine like it's like dreaming.
That's the fun part because it'sno, you know, and of course
they're taking that information and I'm sure their brains are
like numbers, location, like they are starting to do their
work, but they like to hear whatI'm excited about.
(42:31):
So when it comes time to compromise, they're like, we
can't compromise this because this is really important to her.
But I feel like if we pitched maybe that being that she might
be down because that, you know, it's like, follow what you're
excited about. And yeah, same with my DP just
talking about the images I see and the stories I'm thinking of.
(42:51):
Or I'll be like, dude, does thisnot feel like warm?
Right. Like it just when I read it, I
just want it to be so warm and like so cozy.
And he's already like, Oh, yeah,I see that.
And like, you know, I think that's sort of like, honest that
whatever that is, audience can'tsee me, but I'm making like, a
this. I think that's the stuff that
(43:13):
makes you make things that feel uniquely ours because we're
building it around what we're actually excited about and not
from like, a heady, like, you know, we'll get to that.
The production meetings and the numbers, of course, that's
filmmaking. But at first, let's be excited
first, yeah? And I mean, obviously this goes
(43:33):
back to you found your creative community, you found those
collaborators that built you up.I'm curious how you learn to
trust your instincts and like bet on your own artistry.
Or if easier to answer like whatwould be your advice to those
coming up of like how to find their voice 'cause I think so
often we are waiting for someoneto give us permission honestly.
(43:58):
For me, I don't know if it wouldwork for everyone, but learn
what you like, like really like.I think I'm really grateful for
those years as being a dancer and an actor at a very young age
because it made me have to form an opinion on what I like and
don't like. And trust me, there's stuff I
(44:18):
don't like. There's stuff people love that
I'm like. I don't like.
I don't get it. I don't see what I don't get it
and I don't find it interesting.And no shade because you should
be able to create whatever you want, but I also as a person
have to know what I find interesting.
And so I think that as simple asthat maybe sounds to me is the
(44:40):
sort of like beginning of forming your taste and your
voice, because then it becomes if you're making, especially if
it's, well, no, any project, I was going to say your project
versus something you're hired todirect because that is a
slightly different sort of like dynamic.
But if it's your project, now you've got to ask yourself like,
do I care honestly? Like do I care about this thing
(45:04):
I'm looking at? And if I hopefully do, what do I
care about it? Because that's to me is what
directing is like. I loved in school getting five
different couples the same sceneand saying, you have two days to
build a scene and then we all come back in the room and you
share your scene and you see that every scene is different
(45:25):
because everybody found something different that they
were excited to explore in the same material.
And I guess that comes from justtheater in general, like you're
directing plays that have been directed hundreds of times
before you showed up. And so it's not so much like
doing the thing, it's being like, OK, what do I care about
(45:47):
in this thing? Let's lean into that because
then this is going to not just be the telling of the story.
It's going to be the way we toldthis story, and it's going to
feel unique to the people in this room.
So that is sort of how I think of it.
But that's also, I guess, the advice I would give someone else
as we wind. Down.
(46:07):
What are the challenges you wantto take on?
What is on the horizon? Whatever you can tell us about
what you're working on now? Totally.
I have a short film that is has been on the circuit the past
year titled Play Hard that I'm stoked by and we were just given
a Vimeo Staff Pic selection and so that's out for the world to
see, which is really exciting. I'm sort of dreaming up a longer
(46:31):
format version of that story 'cause I am excited to tackle a
feature. I feel very ready to tell a
story at that sort of scope while still staying true to who
I am and the what I find interesting.
So that's on the horizon. I've been doing a lot of work
with different networks and TV fellowships around LA and around
(46:57):
the country. I mean the world.
So I'm excited to continue breaking into TV.
It's, it's trickier post strike just cuz everything's changing
and so it's harder to take a shot on a newer episodic
director. But I've, I mean, I've been on
so many sets the past year, all literally over the world that it
is like a really cool opportunity to be hired to learn
(47:21):
and to get in and to see how people do the work.
So I'm excited to see, you know,where all of that sort of like
opens up for me. And I'm also, you know, writing
and other things are cooking, But it's a it's an exciting time
personally, within a very crazy time in our business.
(47:41):
You close every. Episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back and tell your
younger self? One thing I wish I could go back
and tell my younger self, trust your pictures.
Trust your pictures and trust yourself.
You know more than you think youdo, so just go do it.
Just walk it out and it'll all work out fine.
(48:03):
Linda, thank you so much for joining us on the pod.
Today was so fun to chat with you.
Thank you. Thank.
You for having me, I really appreciate the time, this was
fun. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
(48:25):
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
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